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Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Molly John Fast and this is Fast Politics,

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Speaker 1: where we discussed the top political headlines with some of

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Speaker 1: today's best minds, and President Trump has revoked Biden's children's

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Speaker 1: Secret Service production. We have a great show for you today,

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Speaker 1: the Atlantics. Ron Brownstein stops by to talk about how

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Speaker 1: Trump's unpopular policies could lead to a poor midterms Republicans.

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Speaker 1: Then we'll talk to author and academic Jason Stanley about

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Speaker 1: what he sees under the veil of Trump's authoritarian moves. Plus,

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Speaker 1: we have a bonus from our YouTube channel where I

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Speaker 1: Fight Fight Fight with Democratic strategist James Carvell on how

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Speaker 1: Democrats fight and win.

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Speaker 2: But first the news, Somalie, there's some friends of the

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Speaker 2: show that have taken over the FBI. One's name is

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Speaker 2: Bingo von Bongo Dan Maongino, and the other's name is

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Speaker 2: Cash Patel. It sounds like things are going over in

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Speaker 2: those parts. According to the New York.

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Speaker 1: Times, Yeah, you know worth reading this piece in the

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Speaker 1: New York Times. With the arrival of Bongino, there was

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Speaker 1: an article yesterday or this morning about how Cash Battel

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Speaker 1: has been spending a lot of time at the FBI

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Speaker 1: going to fights in Las Vegas. He plans to split

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Speaker 1: half his time between Las Vegas and Virginia. He is

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Speaker 1: definitely spending a lot of time just sort of enjoying

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Speaker 1: government work as an opportunity to, you know, not have

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Speaker 1: to hustle so hard. Again, what is interesting about that

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Speaker 1: piece in the Times is that it talks about this

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Speaker 1: quote that the former head of the FBI used to use,

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Speaker 1: which was, are you a workhorse or are you a

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Speaker 1: show horse? It certainly seems as if mister Patel is

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Speaker 1: more on the show horse side of the leisure there.

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Speaker 2: That's sounds right to me. So I hate to discuss

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Speaker 2: something that's so slippery slope, but it really seems like

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Speaker 2: this is one of those cases where a slippery slope

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Speaker 2: argument is very pertinent, which is that Elon Musk's Doze

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Speaker 2: just keeps on inching a little bit further than they

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Speaker 2: should every single week. And now they've seized an independent nonprofit.

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Speaker 1: So the US Institute of Peace is not a federal

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Speaker 1: agency or located in a federal building, but for whatever reason,

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Speaker 1: Doge used the police to take it over. Police in

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Speaker 1: private security to forcedly take over the US Institute of Peace.

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Speaker 1: It's an independent nonprofit founded by Congress, It has a

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Speaker 1: president and its board was fired last week by the

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Speaker 1: Trump administration. The Appociated Press reported that DOGE workers on

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Speaker 1: Monday had law enforcement escort them into the USIP, which

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Speaker 1: is not located in a federal building, after being denied access.

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Speaker 1: DOJ came into the building. Again, this is a wild

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Speaker 1: story for any number of reasons, the illegality, the strangeness,

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Speaker 1: and also why they're so set on getting into every

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Speaker 1: bit of the federal government. DOAGE came into the building.

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Speaker 1: They're inside the building, they're bringing the FBI, and they've

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Speaker 1: brought a bunch of DC police. A USIP lawyer, Sophie

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Speaker 1: Lindhall the New York Times. She said, what happened today

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Speaker 1: is an illegal takeover by elements of the executive brands

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Speaker 1: of a private nonprofit. You can't do that. It's very

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Speaker 1: clear their desire part of the administration to dismantle a

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Speaker 1: lot of what we call foreign assistance. But again sort

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Speaker 1: of baffling as to why if it's not, if this

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Speaker 1: is not government fraud, waste and abuse, then what are

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Speaker 1: we doing here. The privately operated USIP works to maintain

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Speaker 1: US diplomacy abroad, and as staff was doing all they

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Speaker 1: could to emphasize that before the DoD break in. I

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Speaker 1: can't imagine how our work could align more perfectly with

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Speaker 1: the goals he has outlined keeping us out of four wars,

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Speaker 1: which saves money, ultimately resolving conflicts before they drag us

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Speaker 1: into these kind of conflicts. Mooset noted, Musk seems to disagree. Yeah, correct,

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Speaker 1: fun stuff. The party never ends in Dogtown, Sabaia. The

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Speaker 1: other night, one of Trump's late night truths, he decided

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Speaker 1: that Biden using an auto pen for pardons means they're void,

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Speaker 1: so that the January sixth committee can be prosecuted by him.

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Speaker 1: I have bad news for all of the January sixth people.

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Speaker 1: He pardoned that the autopen was also used there. So

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Speaker 1: I'm really excited about this new precedent that I'm sure

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Speaker 1: is going to be held to both sides. So Kinsinger,

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Speaker 1: as a response to this, said, stop pretending like you're tough.

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Speaker 1: Trump declared Sunday that many of Piden's pardons, which were

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Speaker 1: just talking about we're autopend and therefore not valid. Again,

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Speaker 1: this is so flimsy. Kinseger was told Jake Tapper, first

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Speaker 1: of all, I'm trying to figure out what he's trying

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Speaker 1: to distract from, because that's what all this is always

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Speaker 1: a distraction to get people's attention. Sounds like Kenzinger knows

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Speaker 1: what's going on here, and then he said or maybe

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Speaker 1: he feels like he hasn't gotten enough attention. But look, Jake,

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Speaker 1: it's like, bring it on, and he's right. The Oversight Project,

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Speaker 1: a branch of the conservative think tank the Heritage Foundation,

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Speaker 1: cast out on social media this month over the validity

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Speaker 1: of documents that it claimed Biden had signed electronically. This

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Speaker 1: is completely silly and totally nutty. While many conservatives argue

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Speaker 1: that Biden's partons are invaluable, are invalid if an autopen

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Speaker 1: was used, Obama used autopens, Trump used auto pens. Very

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Speaker 1: stupid and makes no sense. Of course they'll try it.

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Speaker 2: So in good news, the Trump Anddministration, for once, is

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Speaker 2: actually obeying a judge and is moving to reinstate twenty

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Speaker 2: four thousand federal workers after judges orders.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, elon mush It turns out what you do at Twitter,

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Speaker 1: you can't just do that in the federal government. Trump

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Speaker 1: administration has taken a step to reinstate thousands of probationary

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Speaker 1: workers by the way, the whole idea of firing all

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Speaker 1: these probationary workers. You can be in a probationary period

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Speaker 1: when you've just been elevated, when you've just had a promotion.

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Speaker 1: Like the whole idea that somehow being in a probationary

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Speaker 1: period would make you someone who should be fired is

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Speaker 1: a fallacy. And you know this was done in such

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Speaker 1: a slapshot way. No one is saying you shouldn't cut fraud,

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Speaker 1: waste and abuse. We're just saying that what Elon says

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Speaker 1: is fraud, waste, and abuse is just things he doesn't like.

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Speaker 1: So that is I think an important data point here.

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Speaker 1: I think a lot of the people will come back,

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Speaker 1: a lot of them are needed. And again, this is

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Speaker 1: just cleaning up a mass that Trump World created itself,

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Speaker 1: and we'll see more of that over the coming years.

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Speaker 3: All right.

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Speaker 1: Ron Brownstein is a senior political analyst for CNN and

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Speaker 1: a senior editor at The Atlantic. Welcome back to Fast Politics,

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Speaker 1: Ron Brownstein, a.

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Speaker 4: Molly good to be here.

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Speaker 1: I just think of you as like very smart and

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Speaker 1: also sort of you know what the framework is supposed

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Speaker 1: to look like, so you can tell me how fucked

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Speaker 1: up we are. Right now.

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Speaker 4: Well, look, I think from you know, we're looking at

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Speaker 4: a policy and legal point of view, we are at

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Speaker 4: the outer edge of the challenges to the rule of

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Speaker 4: law that people anticipated under Trump. You know, maybe we're

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Speaker 4: beyond the outer edge.

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Speaker 3: With the seemingly.

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Speaker 4: Open defiance of a federal court order on these deportations,

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Speaker 4: the detaining of a graduate student with a green card

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Speaker 4: because of what he said, the targeting of law firms,

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Speaker 4: the pardoning of the viol on January sixth rioters, half

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Speaker 4: a dozen other things we could list. The challenge to

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Speaker 4: the rule of law as we have understood it, I

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Speaker 4: think is pretty sustained and serious and deep. But the

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Speaker 4: likelihood is that that's not where the political fate of

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Speaker 4: the Trump administration is going to be settled. You know,

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Speaker 4: it's going to be I think, on the same kitchen

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Speaker 4: table concerns that got him elected. And as I wrote

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Speaker 4: last week, while the economy was his most consistent and

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Speaker 4: probably his greatest first term strength, in his second term,

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Speaker 4: it is looking very quickly to be his most conspicuous

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Speaker 4: political vulnerability.

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Speaker 1: So let's talk about that. Because in Trump one point zero,

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Speaker 1: he did the tax cut, he juiced the economy, and

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Speaker 1: then he did the tariffs right, so it was very

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Speaker 1: juiced up economy tariffs Trump two point zero. He doesn't

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Speaker 1: seem to care about the dow anymore, right, I mean

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Speaker 1: all the sort of guardrails that we remember from Trump

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Speaker 1: one point zero, mad about the daw grown up in

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Speaker 1: the in the White House, saying you can't just do

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Speaker 1: willie nilly tariff's all that's over.

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Speaker 3: Right, you.

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Speaker 4: No, It's really interesting. I wrote a piece in the

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Speaker 4: Fall I Guess Winner after the election saying that, as

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Speaker 4: you just noted, almost all of the constraints that limited

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Speaker 4: Trump in his first term would not be there in

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Speaker 4: his second term. He doesn't have those voices from other

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Speaker 4: parts of the party inside the administration telling him, eh,

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Speaker 4: maybe you shouldn't do this. He doesn't have McConnell and Ryan,

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Speaker 4: who are much more skeptical of him than Thune and Johnson.

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Speaker 4: He doesn't have the Supreme Court that existed then in

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Speaker 4: twenty seventeen, and I wrote that this would not be

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Speaker 4: an unmitigated blessing for him or the Republican Party because Trump, unbound,

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Speaker 4: you know, goes to extremes that the country may not

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Speaker 4: want to follow. And after I wrote that, a very

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Speaker 4: senior official from an earlier Democratic administration called me up

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Speaker 4: and to say, you know, I agree with everything you said,

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Speaker 4: except you missed one thing that was still going to

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Speaker 4: constrain Trump. The Dow, the stock market.

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Speaker 1: Well we all thought that because of Trump one point.

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Speaker 1: Now yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 4: So now I think, you know, as on the legal front,

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Speaker 4: on the economic front, you are getting more of Trump unfiltered,

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Speaker 4: which is not an unmitigated blessing, as I said, for

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Speaker 4: him or for the Republican Party. You know, Trump has

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Speaker 4: always talked about tariffs out of both sides of his mouth,

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Speaker 4: but I think one of them is what he really

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Speaker 4: believes he and particularly as defenders, you know, like the

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Speaker 4: Treasury Secretary in the Commerce secretary, I will say the

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Speaker 4: tariff threats are a brilliant negotiating tool. They how we

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Speaker 4: break other countries to our will on whatever we're worried about.

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Speaker 4: But you know, most of the time Trump also says

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Speaker 4: tariffs are good in themselves, right, that will lead to

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Speaker 4: this reshoring of American manufacturing might and he doesn't present

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Speaker 4: them at all, And they will raise so much revenue

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Speaker 4: that you can cut taxes on rich people even more,

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Speaker 4: even though they are regressive.

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Speaker 3: As we talk about.

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Speaker 4: I think the latter is what he really believes. He

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Speaker 4: keeps threatening these giant tariffs and then pulling back when

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Speaker 4: the other countries give him even the best Garis fig

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Speaker 4: Leaf to do so, and all the people in his

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Speaker 4: administration where leary of tarots go. You know, he stepped

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Speaker 4: back from the brink again, but sooner or later he

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Speaker 4: is going to jump over the brink, because that is

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Speaker 4: what he really wants to do deep down. I don't

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Speaker 4: think Trump views tariffs as a negotiating tactic. I think

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Speaker 4: he views them as a good in themselves. He wants

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Speaker 4: to impose them and in ways we can discuss I

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Speaker 4: think is by the way, I think I notice one

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Speaker 4: thing before, jentlemen. His promotion of tariffs has oddly placed

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Speaker 4: him in the same position on the economy as Joe Biden,

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Speaker 4: where he is basically arguing that his agenda will lead

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Speaker 4: to a lot of domestic investment and a lot more

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Speaker 4: manufacturing jobs. But I think that like Biden, Trump is

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Speaker 4: faded to discover a very hard lesson jobs are not

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Speaker 4: in antidote to prices when people are learned about their

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Speaker 4: cost of living.

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Speaker 1: Right, No, and I agree, and I see the same thing,

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Speaker 1: the exact same thing you're talking about with Chips and Science. Right.

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Speaker 1: Trump is obviously speaking to this thing which Biden did too,

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Speaker 1: which is the middle of the country wants its jobs back.

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Speaker 1: It wants its jobs from the nineteen seventies and the

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Speaker 1: nineteen fifties back. And so while Biden had Chips and Science,

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Speaker 1: which brought some jobs back, but again, you know, it's

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Speaker 1: a real uphill climb to bring back manufacturing of the

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Speaker 1: sort that we have not had in this country in

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Speaker 1: fifty years. Right, I mean, that's what we're talking about doing.

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Speaker 1: That is the goal.

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Speaker 4: As they used to say on CBS, Let's go to

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Speaker 4: the videotape. Right, So Biden says, Okay, I'm going to

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Speaker 4: bring back manufacturing with these subsidies under the Chips Act

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Speaker 4: and the Inflation Reduction Act, any infrastructure bill to promote

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Speaker 4: more domestic manufacturing. It worked to a large extent. He

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Speaker 4: got over one trillion dollars of private sector investment, and

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Speaker 4: over his four years from January of twenty twenty one

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Speaker 4: to December of twenty twenty four, I happened to have

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Speaker 4: this right here. He freased the total number of manufacturing

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Speaker 4: jobs from twelve point one million to about twelve point

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Speaker 4: eight million. At the same time, he added about a

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Speaker 4: million more construction jobs to build all of these plants

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Speaker 4: that Intel was opening in Ohio. Our car companies were

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Speaker 4: opening in North Carolina, on Alabama and Georgia mostly read

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Speaker 4: right to work states. But that's a good issue.

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Speaker 3: So now here.

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Speaker 4: Comes Trump and says, I don't want to do any

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Speaker 4: of those subsidies. But basically I have a different means

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Speaker 4: towards the same end. I'm going to put up these

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Speaker 4: big tariff walls, and I'm going to encourage companies to

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Speaker 4: build new factories in the US, and I'm going to

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Speaker 4: restore manufacturing jobs. So Joe Biden, as I said, I

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Speaker 4: think was pretty darn successful at promoting these core blue

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Speaker 4: collar jobs of manufacturing construction. One point six million more

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Speaker 4: jobs combined in those two fields when he was done

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Speaker 4: than when he started. And guess what he found out

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Speaker 4: in twenty twenty four, It did not matter to the

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Speaker 4: vast majority of Americans who don't work in construction or manufacturing.

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Speaker 3: At best.

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Speaker 4: There are twenty million people who work in construction and manufacturing.

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Speaker 4: A lot more people buy eggs every week, hey for

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Speaker 4: gas every week, And I think the bitter lesson for

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Speaker 4: Biden and Harris, and Harris recognized this was that jobs

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Speaker 4: is not an antidote to.

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Speaker 3: Prices, as I said.

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Speaker 4: And I think Trump is rumbling down the same track

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Speaker 4: where you know, if you look at polling, Americans overwhelmingly

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Speaker 4: say that prices are the principal metric by which they're

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Speaker 4: judging the health of the economy, not jobs. Even if

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Speaker 4: you build more manufacturing plants in the Midwest, not that

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Speaker 4: many people will ever work in them, as I said,

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Speaker 4: twenty million, right. And then you know we have in

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Speaker 4: polling somewhere around sixty percent of the country saying they

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Speaker 4: do not believe Trump is focused on the biggest problems

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Speaker 4: facing the nation. And as I wrote, his economic approval

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Speaker 4: rating is now in many polls lower than it was

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Speaker 4: in any point in his first top term, his disapproval

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Speaker 4: rating higher than any point it was in his first term.

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Speaker 4: And maybe most significantly, you know, if you look at

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Speaker 4: CNBC Gallop CNN, never did his economic rating come in

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Speaker 4: below his overall appropriating his economic rating, and his first

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Speaker 4: one was always a floor pushing him up. Now routinely Gallup, CNN, NBC,

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Speaker 4: Quinnipiac his economic approprating is below his overall appropriating. It

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Speaker 4: is a headwind pushing him down, not you know, a

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Speaker 4: sturdying force pushing him up.

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Speaker 1: So here we are right, we have Frump, unbound and unfettered. Right,

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Speaker 1: he does not care about the markets, he doesn't care

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Speaker 1: about the grown ups. He doesn't care. And then we

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Speaker 1: have his approval rating. You know, he came in as

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Speaker 1: much of a mandate as this guy has ever had. Finally,

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Speaker 1: a Republican have won the popular vote. Congratulations to all

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Speaker 1: who celebrate. And now here we are already just cratering

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Speaker 1: his approval. The things that he has been popular for.

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Speaker 1: He could solve the economy that's over. You got Vance

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Speaker 1: being booed when he goes to hear music. You've got

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Speaker 1: people protesting in the streets. It does not feel like

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Speaker 1: the admin really cares. It seems like they are just

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Speaker 1: as committed as ever. A going full doge creating.

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Speaker 4: Ring might be a little strong. I think crediting is strong.

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Speaker 4: I think it's dipping. He's a little higher in most

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Speaker 4: poles than where he was at this point in the

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Speaker 4: first term, but lower than any other newly elected president.

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Speaker 4: And the trajectory is clearly tore down. The number among

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Speaker 4: Independence is quite bad consistently. I mean, and we're looking

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Speaker 4: I tweeted maybe what three weeks ago that there were

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Speaker 4: seven or eight poles in a row where his approbating

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Speaker 4: among independence was at least ten points underwater. I mean,

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Speaker 4: now we're looking at twenty five and thirty in NBC

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Speaker 4: and CNN. So there is definitely anxiety, right.

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Speaker 1: And you invested a Trump going out saying no, we

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Speaker 1: might have a recession, which is unprecedented for a president

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Speaker 1: for any number of reasons, because you don't want a recession,

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Speaker 1: and you don't want people saying we're going to have

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Speaker 1: a recession. And when your people go out and say that,

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Speaker 1: it tends to create a recession. It tends to be

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Speaker 1: a self fulfilling prophecy.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: Well, also the just the share uncertainty on the tariffs,

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Speaker 4: and you know, and I said, eventually he's going to

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Speaker 4: run through the play class window. He's not going to

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Speaker 4: stop every time he's he's he is going to run

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Speaker 4: through this window and impose significant tariffs and potentially slow down,

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Speaker 4: you know, the economy substantially. But what I'm saying is,

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Speaker 4: you know, in some ways Trump, unless he is serious

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Speaker 4: about trying to undo the Constitution, in which case it

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Speaker 4: wouldn't be a real election anyway. Trump is not going

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Speaker 4: to face the voters again. What's more remarkable is that

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Speaker 4: Republicans in Congress, who are going to face the voters

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Speaker 4: in twenty six, you know, are showing no hesitation. Maybe

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Speaker 4: a little on Doge here and there, but they are

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Speaker 4: basically still running down this track and even toward what

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Speaker 4: I think will be the defining political battle of twenty

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Speaker 4: twenty five, which will be the effort to extend the

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Speaker 4: tax cuts and tying that directly to cuts in federal spending,

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Speaker 4: particularly on medicaid. As I've written, the Republicans haven't directly

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Speaker 4: tied tax cuts and spending cuts since ninety five ninety six.

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Speaker 4: Each of the subsequent tax cuts, the Bush ones and

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Speaker 4: one and O three, the Trump tax cut in seventeen,

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Speaker 4: that was sugar only, Molly. They only did the tax cuts,

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Speaker 4: They kept the spending cuts years away. In fact, under Bush,

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Speaker 4: they didn't push for them until Obama came into office.

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Speaker 4: This is a replication instead of the Gingrich strategy in

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Speaker 4: ninety five ninety six, where they're in one bill they

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Speaker 4: are likely to say, Okay, we're going to cut taxes

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Speaker 4: primarily for the rich, and we're going to cut programs

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Speaker 4: primarily for the middle and working class Medicaid, ACA subs,

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Speaker 4: and these other things like that. That's how Bill Clinton

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Speaker 4: turned around his presidency by basically making that argument that

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Speaker 4: Republicans were cutting programs that benefit you to fund tax

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Speaker 4: cuts for their rich friends. We'll see, you know, right now,

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Speaker 4: Republicans look thard their steaming toward you know, recreating that.

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Speaker 4: We'll see if they kind of jump off the boat

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Speaker 4: before it hits the falls and maybe try to dodge

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Speaker 4: actually doing the cuts. But it's the congressional Republicans who

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Speaker 4: will face the consequences here. And you know, while the

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Speaker 4: Democratic image is very weak, I think it is weaker

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Speaker 4: than at any point since before Bill Clinton. And that

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Speaker 4: is a real issue for twenty twenty eight. It's probably

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Speaker 4: not as big an issue for twenty twenty six, right.

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Speaker 1: Because you're running again something. That's what Tim Miller said

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Speaker 1: to me the other day.

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Speaker 4: The critical variable of modern midterm elections is the president's appropriating.

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Speaker 4: Over ninety percent of people who disapproved of Trump voted

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Speaker 4: for Democrats in twenty eighteen. Nearly ninety percent of people

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Speaker 4: who approved of him voted for Democrats in the House.

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Speaker 4: In twenty eighteen, the ninety percent ratio held in virtually

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Speaker 4: every major Senate race. If Trump's disapproval rating is at

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Speaker 4: the fifty three level that CNN had last week, if

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Speaker 4: that's what it is on election day in twenty twenty six,

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Speaker 4: the odds are overwhelming that Democrats will take back the House.

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Speaker 4: You know, the Republican image among voters in twenty fourteen

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Speaker 4: and twenty ten wasn't really much better than Democrats. Now

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Speaker 4: roughly thirty percent viewed them positively. In twenty ten and

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Speaker 4: twenty fourteen, it didn't matter because people were casting a

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Speaker 4: vote against the income and President. Tom Davis run the

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Speaker 4: NRCC likes to say that in the midterm, voters usually

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Speaker 4: now vote to put a check on the president, not

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Speaker 4: to give him a blank check. And I still think

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Speaker 4: that will be the controlling variable. I mean, not that

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Speaker 4: the Democratic image problems are relevant. They are for twenty

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Speaker 4: twenty eight especially, and they will probably hurt the party

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Speaker 4: in purple areas that they're trying to contest in twenty

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Speaker 4: twenty six, But overall, the key variable for Democrats is

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Speaker 4: how popular Trump is and how effectively they can mobilize

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Speaker 4: what is already there, which is public resistance to a

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Speaker 4: lot of the things that he's doing.

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Speaker 1: So here's what I would say, and I think that's right.

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Speaker 1: But my question is this, So Doade seems to be

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Speaker 1: doing the thing that is the third rail in American

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Speaker 1: politics saying we're going to cut all of this federal

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Speaker 1: government staff, right, and they're saying to their base it's

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Speaker 1: ways for ourn abuse, but they're really saying, we're just

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Speaker 1: going to cut it because it's expensive and we want

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Speaker 1: to have tax cuts for our rich friends. So what

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Speaker 1: you're saying is that there's no historical precedent for doing

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Speaker 1: this right. Every time there's been tax cuts, it's never

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Speaker 1: been like, we are cutting federal services to give tax

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Speaker 1: cuts to wealthy people.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, they did it in ninety five ninety six, they did.

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Speaker 4: They tied it together the Gingrich Revolution. They passed the

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Speaker 4: Reconciliation Bill that had large tax cuts and large cuts

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Speaker 4: in spending, particularly block granting medicaid. That's how Clinton turned

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Speaker 4: around his presence. I mean, he basically are you old

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Speaker 4: enough to remember M two e two?

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Speaker 1: Yes?

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Speaker 4: M two e two was Clinton's mantra. It was Medicare medicaid,

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Speaker 4: the environment, and education, and we are going to protect

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Speaker 4: M to E two against the Republicans and their desire

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Speaker 4: to cut them for their tax cuts. After the ninety

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Speaker 4: four midterm, Clinton tried a lot of things to rebuild

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Speaker 4: his standing with the public, and none of them worked.

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Speaker 4: In the fall of ninety five, his approval was still

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Speaker 4: way under fifty. Then he got into a fight with

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Speaker 4: Gingrich over M two E two versus tax cuts, and

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Speaker 4: his approval rating went back over fifty percent. He went

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Speaker 4: past Dole in the polls. I mean, he never looked back.

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Speaker 4: He won a pretty decisive reelection.

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Speaker 1: Because voters hate having their stuff taken.

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Speaker 4: Away and they don't like tax cuts for the rich.

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Speaker 4: And when you put the two together, you know, it's

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Speaker 4: like they used to say it, like it goes together

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Speaker 4: like whiskey and second all that.

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Speaker 1: But does everyone know what second all is?

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Speaker 4: No, I don't think so, you know, second.

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Speaker 1: All to and all they were I'm actually too young

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Speaker 1: to have done them, but they were like first generation

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Speaker 1: Baally and so powerful that they were taking off the market.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, sadly, there you go. I mean, but that like, so,

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Speaker 4: you know, tax cuts for wealthy people are not popular

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Speaker 4: on their own spending. Cuts in programs that benefit the

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Speaker 4: middle class, particularly healthcare programs, are not popular. Here's what

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Speaker 4: I think is the risk, long term risk for Trump.

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Speaker 4: Right now, voters believe he is largely slighting the problem,

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Speaker 4: ignoring the problem that they elected him above all to

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Speaker 4: solve inflation. The risk is that down the road they

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Speaker 4: will view him as not so much ignoring inflation as

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Speaker 4: compounding it. If the tariffs go into place, That's one prong.

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Speaker 4: The other is if he pursues this budget fight that

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Speaker 4: allows Democrats to say he is raising your healthcare costs

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Speaker 4: to give tax cuts to his rich buddies and himself

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Speaker 4: and to Elon, and he's imposing tarrifsts on you. Then

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Speaker 4: you have a situation where not only do you swing

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Speaker 4: voters think Trump kind of took his eye off the ball.

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Speaker 4: They think he is actively, you know, making worse the

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Speaker 4: problem they elected him to solve. And I think that

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Speaker 4: would be a pretty dangerous place for Republicans to go

434
00:23:30,960 --> 00:23:33,919
Speaker 4: into twenty six. You know, there are a lot of

435
00:23:34,000 --> 00:23:36,520
Speaker 4: you know, look, the country's more polarized and locked in

436
00:23:36,560 --> 00:23:37,919
Speaker 4: than it used to be. There are a lot of

437
00:23:37,920 --> 00:23:42,480
Speaker 4: people who are deeply invested side of this fundamental cultural

438
00:23:42,800 --> 00:23:45,520
Speaker 4: cold war civil war that we are living through. But

439
00:23:45,600 --> 00:23:48,080
Speaker 4: the last ten percent of voters I think, are not

440
00:23:48,320 --> 00:23:52,560
Speaker 4: really that invested in those issues. One lesson this election

441
00:23:52,680 --> 00:23:55,399
Speaker 4: taught me is there are more people who are voting

442
00:23:55,520 --> 00:23:59,800
Speaker 4: on current conditions than you might think given the polarization.

443
00:24:00,520 --> 00:24:03,160
Speaker 4: And you know, we talk about how these are people

444
00:24:03,160 --> 00:24:05,720
Speaker 4: who don't follow a lot of political news, but I'll

445
00:24:05,720 --> 00:24:08,560
Speaker 4: tell you what, they are experts in their own lives,

446
00:24:09,240 --> 00:24:11,200
Speaker 4: and if they don't feel their lives are getting better

447
00:24:11,200 --> 00:24:13,480
Speaker 4: by twenty six, they are going to vote in a

448
00:24:13,520 --> 00:24:15,320
Speaker 4: way that reflects that if they vote at all.

449
00:24:15,520 --> 00:24:19,359
Speaker 1: You're talking about these voters who like the woman in

450
00:24:19,359 --> 00:24:22,000
Speaker 1: the Washington Post who heard that Trump was going to

451
00:24:22,040 --> 00:24:25,560
Speaker 1: make IVF free and decided to vote for him and

452
00:24:25,600 --> 00:24:28,479
Speaker 1: then lost their job. What percentage of the voter public

453
00:24:28,520 --> 00:24:29,120
Speaker 1: do you think that.

454
00:24:29,119 --> 00:24:31,240
Speaker 4: Is a lot of the people who vote in presidential

455
00:24:31,280 --> 00:24:33,680
Speaker 4: years and don't vote in the midterm would fall into that.

456
00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:35,680
Speaker 4: I've talked to you about this before. You know, if

457
00:24:35,680 --> 00:24:38,280
Speaker 4: you look at a variety of measures in exitpoles and

458
00:24:38,320 --> 00:24:41,680
Speaker 4: the vote cast, is Trump to extreme? Is the authoritarian?

459
00:24:41,760 --> 00:24:44,479
Speaker 4: Does he lacked the character to be president? Do you

460
00:24:44,520 --> 00:24:48,120
Speaker 4: agree with mass deportation. Somewhere between fifteen and twenty percent

461
00:24:48,160 --> 00:24:50,399
Speaker 4: of his voters gave him negative answers on all of

462
00:24:50,440 --> 00:24:53,280
Speaker 4: those things and voted for him anyway because they thought

463
00:24:53,440 --> 00:24:55,280
Speaker 4: he was he would be better for the economy. So

464
00:24:55,280 --> 00:24:58,040
Speaker 4: that takes you to about ten percent of the electorate probably.

465
00:24:57,680 --> 00:25:01,439
Speaker 1: Since that fifteen million people, Yeah, roughly, that seems like

466
00:25:01,600 --> 00:25:03,000
Speaker 1: a crazy high number.

467
00:25:03,040 --> 00:25:03,280
Speaker 4: I mean.

468
00:25:03,320 --> 00:25:05,040
Speaker 1: The thing that I was struck by when you're talking

469
00:25:05,040 --> 00:25:07,480
Speaker 1: about this, which I have been wanting to talk about,

470
00:25:07,560 --> 00:25:09,800
Speaker 1: but I feel like I have not had the opening,

471
00:25:10,320 --> 00:25:13,960
Speaker 1: is this idea that there were people Trump got out

472
00:25:14,280 --> 00:25:17,320
Speaker 1: who left the bottom of the ticket blank, people who

473
00:25:17,720 --> 00:25:20,840
Speaker 1: didn't necessarily like him but still believed he'd be better

474
00:25:20,880 --> 00:25:22,960
Speaker 1: for the economy. And if you think about this with

475
00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:24,960
Speaker 1: sort of a low turnout, like if you look at

476
00:25:24,960 --> 00:25:29,040
Speaker 1: twenty twenty, right had about twenty million less voters in

477
00:25:29,160 --> 00:25:30,760
Speaker 1: twenty four, would you say, no?

478
00:25:30,920 --> 00:25:32,520
Speaker 4: I think it was No, It wasn't that many. I

479
00:25:32,520 --> 00:25:34,760
Speaker 4: don't remember exactly, it was like five or seven.

480
00:25:34,920 --> 00:25:38,240
Speaker 1: So you really do see that there's like a there's

481
00:25:38,320 --> 00:25:41,280
Speaker 1: that percentage that didn't turn out right, like Harris. Harris

482
00:25:41,280 --> 00:25:43,399
Speaker 1: had gotten eighty one million, she would have won, right

483
00:25:43,440 --> 00:25:46,439
Speaker 1: if she had gotten what Biden got in twenty twenty,

484
00:25:46,600 --> 00:25:47,240
Speaker 1: she would have won.

485
00:25:47,560 --> 00:25:51,320
Speaker 4: One thing that David Shore argues that the Democratic data

486
00:25:51,320 --> 00:25:53,520
Speaker 4: analyst and I think others have argued, is that the

487
00:25:53,520 --> 00:25:56,760
Speaker 4: people who didn't turn out were very similar to the

488
00:25:56,800 --> 00:25:58,520
Speaker 4: people who switched the Trump I mean, they were kind

489
00:25:58,520 --> 00:26:01,480
Speaker 4: of lower income, lower from MEA. Voters were really unhappy

490
00:26:01,480 --> 00:26:03,600
Speaker 4: with what they got out of the Biden administration. So

491
00:26:03,640 --> 00:26:05,960
Speaker 4: they're not turning out was another reflection of the same

492
00:26:06,080 --> 00:26:08,480
Speaker 4: dynamic that moved those other voters of Trump. And it's

493
00:26:08,520 --> 00:26:10,560
Speaker 4: not clear at all if they did turn out, they

494
00:26:10,600 --> 00:26:13,000
Speaker 4: would have stuck with the Democrats because they were the

495
00:26:13,080 --> 00:26:16,199
Speaker 4: people who they lost on performance. The way I phrased

496
00:26:16,200 --> 00:26:18,679
Speaker 4: it before is the shocking thing about this election was

497
00:26:18,680 --> 00:26:21,920
Speaker 4: how normal it was. I mean, voters who were dissatisfied

498
00:26:21,920 --> 00:26:24,640
Speaker 4: with the status quo voted for the opposition party candidate

499
00:26:24,800 --> 00:26:28,320
Speaker 4: in the normal hydraulics of American politics, even though Trump

500
00:26:28,359 --> 00:26:30,920
Speaker 4: is anything but a normal candidate. You know, sixty percent

501
00:26:30,920 --> 00:26:34,800
Speaker 4: of the voters plus disapproved of Biden's performance, and eighty

502
00:26:34,840 --> 00:26:37,879
Speaker 4: percent plus of those disapprovers voted for Trump. Seventy percent

503
00:26:37,880 --> 00:26:40,240
Speaker 4: of people said the economy was in fair or poor shape,

504
00:26:40,320 --> 00:26:42,880
Speaker 4: and seventy percent of those people voted for Trump. I mean,

505
00:26:42,880 --> 00:26:45,600
Speaker 4: that's that's his vote. That's it. And all the reasons

506
00:26:45,600 --> 00:26:48,359
Speaker 4: why Trump is not a normal candidate of which we

507
00:26:48,400 --> 00:26:51,600
Speaker 4: are being reminded, you know, didn't matter as much to

508
00:26:51,680 --> 00:26:54,760
Speaker 4: the last incremental voters as the thought that life was

509
00:26:54,760 --> 00:26:56,840
Speaker 4: more affordable when he was president, and therefore they thought

510
00:26:56,840 --> 00:26:59,919
Speaker 4: it would be more affordable again. Meanwhile, economists were warning

511
00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:02,720
Speaker 4: all the way through that his second term agenda was

512
00:27:02,760 --> 00:27:06,320
Speaker 4: more likely to accelerate than you know, control inflation. And

513
00:27:06,400 --> 00:27:09,760
Speaker 4: now I think he faces that risk, you know, I mean,

514
00:27:09,800 --> 00:27:11,480
Speaker 4: I think a lot of the things he is doing

515
00:27:11,520 --> 00:27:14,359
Speaker 4: to disrupt government and to threaten the rule of law,

516
00:27:14,840 --> 00:27:16,640
Speaker 4: you know, are going to matter to the people who

517
00:27:16,640 --> 00:27:18,120
Speaker 4: turn out. Kind of people who turn out in twenty

518
00:27:18,160 --> 00:27:20,720
Speaker 4: twenty six, no doubt about it. It's more college educated

519
00:27:20,760 --> 00:27:23,960
Speaker 4: than overall. I think his numbers will decline among college

520
00:27:23,960 --> 00:27:27,040
Speaker 4: white men and college white women Republican numbers in twenty six.

521
00:27:27,280 --> 00:27:29,280
Speaker 4: But when you get back to twenty eight and this

522
00:27:29,480 --> 00:27:31,840
Speaker 4: added pool of voters who just aren't that invested in

523
00:27:31,840 --> 00:27:33,800
Speaker 4: that because they're really worried about just you know, keeping

524
00:27:33,920 --> 00:27:35,919
Speaker 4: shoes on the kids' feat I think he's going to

525
00:27:35,920 --> 00:27:39,520
Speaker 4: be judged on whether he delivered a better economy, you know,

526
00:27:39,560 --> 00:27:41,360
Speaker 4: and right now people don't see that. They don't even

527
00:27:41,400 --> 00:27:43,600
Speaker 4: see him trying. Really, you know, it's kind of a

528
00:27:43,640 --> 00:27:45,639
Speaker 4: double whammy. And I said, the triple whammy would be

529
00:27:45,640 --> 00:27:47,760
Speaker 4: if they think his agenda is actually making it worse.

530
00:27:48,280 --> 00:27:55,199
Speaker 1: Ron Brownstean, thank you, thank you. Jason Stanley is a

531
00:27:55,200 --> 00:27:59,119
Speaker 1: professor at Yale University as well as the author of

532
00:27:59,240 --> 00:28:03,119
Speaker 1: a recent hit history, How Fascist Rewrite the Past to

533
00:28:03,320 --> 00:28:08,840
Speaker 1: Control the Future. Welcome back to Fast Politics, Chasing Stanley.

534
00:28:09,240 --> 00:28:11,879
Speaker 3: Great to be in conversation with you, Powis Molly.

535
00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:17,879
Speaker 1: Academic institutions under attack, Let's talk about it. Colombia is

536
00:28:17,960 --> 00:28:21,240
Speaker 1: number one because the New York Post covers it. Right,

537
00:28:21,520 --> 00:28:26,359
Speaker 1: It's like, clearly the Trump administration has learned about Colombia.

538
00:28:26,840 --> 00:28:29,320
Speaker 3: No, I don't think that's right. I think Tim Snyder,

539
00:28:29,760 --> 00:28:33,640
Speaker 3: in a recent substock post, said that Colombia is number one,

540
00:28:34,119 --> 00:28:36,320
Speaker 3: and this is going to be you know, this is

541
00:28:36,359 --> 00:28:39,959
Speaker 3: intentionally ironic. Colombia is number one because it's located in

542
00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:45,120
Speaker 3: New York City. It's most identified with cosmopolitan, leftist Jews.

543
00:28:45,840 --> 00:28:49,920
Speaker 3: Twenty percent of its student population is Jewish. So you're

544
00:28:50,200 --> 00:28:55,040
Speaker 3: taking down the most Jewish identified university in the country

545
00:28:55,600 --> 00:29:00,240
Speaker 3: in the name supposedly of protecting Jewish students and faculty.

546
00:29:00,840 --> 00:29:03,920
Speaker 3: The level of hypocrisy is amazing.

547
00:29:04,320 --> 00:29:06,200
Speaker 1: I think it's because it gets the most coverage in

548
00:29:06,240 --> 00:29:08,600
Speaker 1: the New York Post. I'll tell you why. Then, You're

549
00:29:08,720 --> 00:29:13,640
Speaker 1: Post owned by Rupert Murnock. Local newspaper covered the Columbia

550
00:29:13,680 --> 00:29:18,000
Speaker 1: stuff a lot, partially because they knew it was like

551
00:29:18,080 --> 00:29:20,840
Speaker 1: a really good issue for them, right. I am not

552
00:29:21,080 --> 00:29:26,320
Speaker 1: convinced that actually the Judaism plays I mean, obviously Judaism

553
00:29:26,360 --> 00:29:29,400
Speaker 1: plays a huge role here in the macro, but I'm

554
00:29:29,400 --> 00:29:30,959
Speaker 1: not sure in the micro it does.

555
00:29:31,640 --> 00:29:35,479
Speaker 3: We're not disagreeing. I'm thinking it's an anti Semitic attack,

556
00:29:35,840 --> 00:29:38,480
Speaker 3: and I think that's one thing to focus on. They're

557
00:29:38,640 --> 00:29:43,040
Speaker 3: imitating Victor Bond's treatment of Central European University. They're showing

558
00:29:43,400 --> 00:29:49,000
Speaker 3: Krussia University because they can. The pests are totally irrelevant.

559
00:29:49,240 --> 00:29:54,000
Speaker 3: They just gave people an excuse. Notice that always says

560
00:29:54,440 --> 00:29:57,960
Speaker 3: illegal protests. He doesn't say protests about what. So he

561
00:29:58,120 --> 00:30:02,880
Speaker 3: knows that universities are where the democracy protests will occur.

562
00:30:03,360 --> 00:30:08,520
Speaker 3: The just protests were anti war protests, so anti war protests.

563
00:30:09,240 --> 00:30:12,640
Speaker 3: One of the largest identity groups in the protests at

564
00:30:12,720 --> 00:30:16,360
Speaker 3: Yale were Jewish students, So you know this has nothing

565
00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:21,080
Speaker 3: to do with Jewish students are protecting Jewish students and faculty.

566
00:30:21,400 --> 00:30:25,960
Speaker 3: There's Jewish students and Jewish faculty on both sides. So

567
00:30:26,960 --> 00:30:31,440
Speaker 3: it's just an excuse to crack down on universities. As JD.

568
00:30:31,600 --> 00:30:35,280
Speaker 3: Vance said, the professors are the enemy, and it's juiced

569
00:30:35,360 --> 00:30:38,480
Speaker 3: on by the mainstream media. The New York Times has

570
00:30:38,480 --> 00:30:43,560
Speaker 3: spent a decade attacking universities for having too little free speech.

571
00:30:43,680 --> 00:30:47,680
Speaker 3: You should allow racists, and now too much free speech.

572
00:30:47,720 --> 00:30:51,240
Speaker 3: You can't allow criticism of Israel. So the New York Times,

573
00:30:51,680 --> 00:30:55,080
Speaker 3: which is the media, has been attacking universities, and the

574
00:30:55,120 --> 00:30:59,480
Speaker 3: Atlantic has been attacking universities. These two democratic institutions, the

575
00:30:59,600 --> 00:31:03,400
Speaker 3: media and the universities should be allied. But the media

576
00:31:03,720 --> 00:31:07,800
Speaker 3: has been just dupes for fascism, and so they've paved

577
00:31:07,840 --> 00:31:10,800
Speaker 3: the road for what we see. In a sense, I'm like,

578
00:31:10,920 --> 00:31:13,200
Speaker 3: why should I stand up for the media given what

579
00:31:13,240 --> 00:31:18,040
Speaker 3: they've been doing to universities. So say more, well, the

580
00:31:18,200 --> 00:31:25,360
Speaker 3: media completely handed Trump a bomb. Trump wants to destroy universities,

581
00:31:25,760 --> 00:31:29,640
Speaker 3: every authoritarian wants to destroy universities. There are no liberal

582
00:31:29,720 --> 00:31:33,760
Speaker 3: arts colleges in authoritarian countries, so one of the first

583
00:31:33,760 --> 00:31:37,480
Speaker 3: things you do is attack the universities. The media has

584
00:31:37,560 --> 00:31:42,720
Speaker 3: been creating a fake narrative about you know, anti black

585
00:31:42,840 --> 00:31:47,760
Speaker 3: racists not allowed free speech, and then you know, and

586
00:31:47,800 --> 00:31:50,000
Speaker 3: then turned around and was like, Okay, there's too much

587
00:31:50,040 --> 00:31:55,440
Speaker 3: criticism of Israel, and all of this just handed fascism

588
00:31:55,960 --> 00:32:00,600
Speaker 3: a weapon. And in moments you need democratic in institutions

589
00:32:00,640 --> 00:32:03,920
Speaker 3: to ally with each other. The media is such a

590
00:32:04,080 --> 00:32:07,640
Speaker 3: toxic enemy of universities at this point that it's a

591
00:32:07,760 --> 00:32:14,880
Speaker 3: very difficult. We can't trust them. They've normalized this idea

592
00:32:15,040 --> 00:32:20,160
Speaker 3: that universities are filled with dangerous pro Palestinian Marxists or

593
00:32:20,240 --> 00:32:23,280
Speaker 3: what have you. And so it's a tricky time for

594
00:32:23,360 --> 00:32:26,560
Speaker 3: democracy because at this time where all of our institutions

595
00:32:26,560 --> 00:32:30,560
Speaker 3: are being attacked, the media has for ten years been

596
00:32:30,640 --> 00:32:33,280
Speaker 3: part of this republican campaign against the universities.

597
00:32:33,640 --> 00:32:37,040
Speaker 1: So let's talk about this so you feel and again,

598
00:32:37,320 --> 00:32:41,120
Speaker 1: I know those think pieces, and I know all of

599
00:32:41,120 --> 00:32:45,120
Speaker 1: those Connor Freed or whatever his name is, writes.

600
00:32:44,920 --> 00:32:50,760
Speaker 5: Them, evens all a lot of conservative white people like

601
00:32:50,840 --> 00:32:54,040
Speaker 5: during those pieces Basically, the theory of the case is

602
00:32:54,080 --> 00:32:59,240
Speaker 5: that college professors are too liberal and their liberalism.

603
00:32:58,640 --> 00:33:02,720
Speaker 1: Is oppressive students, right, that's the idea, is that these

604
00:33:02,760 --> 00:33:07,120
Speaker 1: students are being oppressed by these very liberal academic institutions,

605
00:33:07,240 --> 00:33:13,080
Speaker 1: very liberal professors, and that this liberalism creates an atmosphere

606
00:33:13,120 --> 00:33:15,880
Speaker 1: that is unsafe for conservatives.

607
00:33:16,360 --> 00:33:19,080
Speaker 3: Yes, that's the line. And then you know, so there's

608
00:33:19,120 --> 00:33:22,120
Speaker 3: not enough free speech for conservatives, but at the same time,

609
00:33:22,240 --> 00:33:25,160
Speaker 3: last year, suddenly, oh, there's too much free speech for

610
00:33:25,200 --> 00:33:28,320
Speaker 3: people critical of Israel. So there's a kind of incoherence there.

611
00:33:28,320 --> 00:33:31,360
Speaker 3: But if you so, first of all, the university is

612
00:33:31,480 --> 00:33:35,280
Speaker 3: filled with anti woke white men. To give you an

613
00:33:35,360 --> 00:33:38,680
Speaker 3: idea about how conservative the university is as an institution,

614
00:33:39,240 --> 00:33:43,920
Speaker 3: my department hired its first black tenured faculty member last year.

615
00:33:44,320 --> 00:33:47,360
Speaker 3: He started in twenty twenty four. So it's true we

616
00:33:47,440 --> 00:33:50,640
Speaker 3: have one black faculty member, and that's a radical threat

617
00:33:50,720 --> 00:33:54,480
Speaker 3: to Western civilization according to this lack But it's just

618
00:33:54,920 --> 00:33:58,640
Speaker 3: an absurdity, and the evidence for it things like, oh,

619
00:33:58,800 --> 00:34:01,960
Speaker 3: there are very few Trumphos in the academy. Well, guess what.

620
00:34:02,120 --> 00:34:05,440
Speaker 3: The physics department is very few Trump supporters, The math

621
00:34:05,520 --> 00:34:08,040
Speaker 3: department is very few Trump supporters. You're going to have

622
00:34:08,120 --> 00:34:11,480
Speaker 3: to do affirmative action across STEM to get to ten

623
00:34:11,600 --> 00:34:17,120
Speaker 3: percent of Trump supporters in engineering schools, maths department's physics department,

624
00:34:17,280 --> 00:34:19,800
Speaker 3: maybe twenty percent. You know whatever. I'm not show the numbers,

625
00:34:19,800 --> 00:34:22,200
Speaker 3: but they're tying their minuscule so has nothing to do

626
00:34:22,280 --> 00:34:25,560
Speaker 3: with the humanities. The thing is is that this line

627
00:34:25,600 --> 00:34:28,600
Speaker 3: and I said this, there's an Atlantic piece by Connor Friedsdorff.

628
00:34:29,120 --> 00:34:32,600
Speaker 1: I think all he writes about our college campuses exactly.

629
00:34:32,960 --> 00:34:35,040
Speaker 1: And actually you sent me a piece he wrote where

630
00:34:35,080 --> 00:34:37,719
Speaker 1: he was like, the reason I write about college campuses

631
00:34:38,160 --> 00:34:39,440
Speaker 1: is go So.

632
00:34:39,680 --> 00:34:41,920
Speaker 3: The piece I sent you was in twenty nineteen, and

633
00:34:41,960 --> 00:34:45,040
Speaker 3: he was responding to a tweet of mine saying, look,

634
00:34:45,239 --> 00:34:49,160
Speaker 3: every fascist and far right authoritarian country in the world

635
00:34:49,239 --> 00:34:53,520
Speaker 3: attacks universities for being too critical to left wing, too

636
00:34:53,600 --> 00:34:58,240
Speaker 3: critical of the country. This right wing propaganda campaign paid

637
00:34:58,280 --> 00:34:58,719
Speaker 3: for by.

638
00:34:58,600 --> 00:35:01,759
Speaker 1: The code playing into Yeah, playing into and what do

639
00:35:01,800 --> 00:35:02,360
Speaker 1: you say?

640
00:35:02,560 --> 00:35:04,440
Speaker 3: He responded and said, oh, you.

641
00:35:04,400 --> 00:35:07,120
Speaker 1: Know, indignantly, very angry.

642
00:35:07,480 --> 00:35:07,680
Speaker 6: Yeah.

643
00:35:08,000 --> 00:35:11,200
Speaker 3: And also it was twenty nineteen, and in twenty nineteen

644
00:35:11,280 --> 00:35:16,120
Speaker 3: people regarded me and my warnings about this as unhinged.

645
00:35:16,280 --> 00:35:19,839
Speaker 3: They're like, of course, this isn't authoritarianism. Of course, there's

646
00:35:19,840 --> 00:35:23,320
Speaker 3: no authoritarian attack on the university. So it was also

647
00:35:23,440 --> 00:35:25,920
Speaker 3: meant to be kind of making fun of me, that piece.

648
00:35:25,960 --> 00:35:28,640
Speaker 3: It was meant to be like, But now we see

649
00:35:28,840 --> 00:35:31,960
Speaker 3: the authoritarian attack that the media, and it's not just

650
00:35:32,040 --> 00:35:36,279
Speaker 3: Connor Friedsdorffer, it's Jonathan Hait and Greg Lukianoff and you

651
00:35:36,280 --> 00:35:40,719
Speaker 3: know it's The Atlantic published all these concerned pieces and

652
00:35:41,160 --> 00:35:44,680
Speaker 3: with Friedstofer and the New York Times and so they

653
00:35:44,719 --> 00:35:48,279
Speaker 3: published tons and tons not just from the conservative columnists,

654
00:35:48,320 --> 00:35:51,080
Speaker 3: but they invited other people to write about it. Just

655
00:35:51,200 --> 00:35:54,640
Speaker 3: concern trolling that set up the universities. And now we

656
00:35:54,680 --> 00:35:58,440
Speaker 3: have another. So Trump is always saying, echoing this exact

657
00:35:58,520 --> 00:36:02,120
Speaker 3: campaign run by the mainstream media. He's always saying he's

658
00:36:02,160 --> 00:36:05,560
Speaker 3: going to bring free speech to campus, right by a

659
00:36:05,640 --> 00:36:09,600
Speaker 3: rest protester. So's it's tapping into that. It shows you

660
00:36:09,680 --> 00:36:13,360
Speaker 3: that we've had a decade long right wing attack on

661
00:36:13,600 --> 00:36:17,960
Speaker 3: universities that was sane, washed, as they say in the

662
00:36:18,000 --> 00:36:21,640
Speaker 3: New York Times. And now now it's this delicate moment

663
00:36:21,760 --> 00:36:24,040
Speaker 3: when you know the media is being attacked, and the

664
00:36:24,080 --> 00:36:26,000
Speaker 3: media is going to be attacked, and the universities are

665
00:36:26,000 --> 00:36:28,080
Speaker 3: going to be attacked. But why should we trust the media?

666
00:36:29,239 --> 00:36:31,239
Speaker 1: You and I are like, why should we trust the media?

667
00:36:31,320 --> 00:36:35,080
Speaker 1: That's hey, that's me. One of the things as we

668
00:36:35,160 --> 00:36:39,720
Speaker 1: talk about this that I wonder out loud is instead

669
00:36:39,719 --> 00:36:42,239
Speaker 1: of talking about how bad everything is, and look, we'll

670
00:36:42,239 --> 00:36:45,480
Speaker 1: agree to disagree on notitorial pages. Do I think that

671
00:36:45,920 --> 00:36:52,360
Speaker 1: these editorials about the institutions of higher ed being filled

672
00:36:52,440 --> 00:36:55,560
Speaker 1: with liberals are stupid? Yes? Do I agree with them? No?

673
00:36:55,800 --> 00:36:58,160
Speaker 1: Do I think there are waste of time? Yes? Do

674
00:36:58,320 --> 00:37:03,960
Speaker 1: I think that they may have opened the thought leadership door? Perhaps?

675
00:37:04,480 --> 00:37:08,359
Speaker 1: Do I think that they are? Like? How powerful do

676
00:37:08,400 --> 00:37:12,160
Speaker 1: I think they are? You know that crew? Again, there's

677
00:37:12,200 --> 00:37:14,600
Speaker 1: a reason they go to war with the elites.

678
00:37:14,960 --> 00:37:19,240
Speaker 3: Right, the cultural elites. The literature on elites in sociology

679
00:37:19,360 --> 00:37:23,120
Speaker 3: dates back a century or more, and a very central

680
00:37:23,200 --> 00:37:25,920
Speaker 3: point in the literature on elites is there's different kinds

681
00:37:25,920 --> 00:37:30,440
Speaker 3: of elites university professors and teachers and K through twelve teachers.

682
00:37:30,520 --> 00:37:33,799
Speaker 3: Because they're also attacking them viciously, even harder.

683
00:37:33,560 --> 00:37:34,160
Speaker 1: Right, right, right?

684
00:37:34,760 --> 00:37:38,319
Speaker 3: They're not elites in the financial certainly not. I mean,

685
00:37:38,680 --> 00:37:42,240
Speaker 3: the vast majority of professors are making you know, somewhere

686
00:37:42,280 --> 00:37:45,799
Speaker 3: between twenty five K and sixty K no in an

687
00:37:45,800 --> 00:37:48,719
Speaker 3: immense amount grading, you know, and that's just going to

688
00:37:48,800 --> 00:37:51,960
Speaker 3: get worse. And words, it's a working class job except

689
00:37:52,000 --> 00:37:55,000
Speaker 3: for a choice few. So these are not elites.

690
00:37:55,239 --> 00:37:57,360
Speaker 1: It's the illuminatis, right.

691
00:37:57,320 --> 00:38:01,040
Speaker 3: The illuminati. You know, you can hear ju in the background, right,

692
00:38:01,719 --> 00:38:06,200
Speaker 3: it is the leftist Marxist which like hilarious because I

693
00:38:06,239 --> 00:38:09,160
Speaker 3: am surrounded in the university. Thing about this campaign, the

694
00:38:09,200 --> 00:38:12,719
Speaker 3: campaign against universities, is that you had a lot of

695
00:38:12,800 --> 00:38:16,000
Speaker 3: college professors buying into it too, because for note, just

696
00:38:16,000 --> 00:38:19,759
Speaker 3: because they're kind of center left or just centrists. That's

697
00:38:19,800 --> 00:38:22,040
Speaker 3: the value party of university.

698
00:38:22,320 --> 00:38:25,160
Speaker 1: We've talked about this. We're talking about how do you

699
00:38:25,239 --> 00:38:30,680
Speaker 1: protect universities from this authoritarian administration.

700
00:38:31,239 --> 00:38:34,919
Speaker 3: Yeah, so one thing to see, they've jumped on anti semitism.

701
00:38:35,200 --> 00:38:37,680
Speaker 3: So one thing I'm trying to do in my communications

702
00:38:38,160 --> 00:38:41,799
Speaker 3: is emphasized that when you attack universities, and it's the

703
00:38:41,840 --> 00:38:44,600
Speaker 3: point Tim Snyder made in his piece. Tim Snyder said

704
00:38:44,840 --> 00:38:48,560
Speaker 3: he's a historian and he's not aware ever of universities

705
00:38:48,600 --> 00:38:54,440
Speaker 3: and free speech being attacked to benefit Jews. Those attacks

706
00:38:54,480 --> 00:38:57,319
Speaker 3: are usually to attack Jewish people, and of course the

707
00:38:57,400 --> 00:38:59,960
Speaker 3: university is one of the most Jewish institutions in America

708
00:39:00,000 --> 00:39:05,399
Speaker 3: in life. We are devastating universities in the name of

709
00:39:05,520 --> 00:39:06,920
Speaker 3: protecting Jewish people.

710
00:39:07,120 --> 00:39:11,400
Speaker 1: Right crazy. But so here's the question. If you wanted

711
00:39:11,520 --> 00:39:16,200
Speaker 1: to create a ecosystem where you could protect the universities,

712
00:39:16,719 --> 00:39:20,000
Speaker 1: wouldn't the first thing to set up a world where

713
00:39:20,360 --> 00:39:24,800
Speaker 1: all these universities negotiate together, where you say, an attack

714
00:39:25,160 --> 00:39:28,960
Speaker 1: on Columbia is the same as an attack on Yale

715
00:39:29,120 --> 00:39:30,879
Speaker 1: is the same as an attack on Harvard. So talk

716
00:39:30,960 --> 00:39:32,240
Speaker 1: me through how that would work.

717
00:39:32,280 --> 00:39:37,200
Speaker 3: Molly, brilliant placing you in command of that. The fear

718
00:39:37,680 --> 00:39:42,440
Speaker 3: is palpable in universities. America the greatest university system in

719
00:39:42,480 --> 00:39:46,000
Speaker 3: the world and will not be true in a few years.

720
00:39:46,120 --> 00:39:48,520
Speaker 3: Everyone in the world who can afford it sends their

721
00:39:48,600 --> 00:39:51,839
Speaker 3: kids to American universities if they can get in. That's

722
00:39:51,840 --> 00:39:55,720
Speaker 3: not going to happen anymore. You can't have universities teach

723
00:39:55,800 --> 00:39:59,120
Speaker 3: patriotic education because that won't attract the world. Why should

724
00:39:59,160 --> 00:40:02,520
Speaker 3: someone from jermy comment and learn some ridiculous story about

725
00:40:02,560 --> 00:40:05,640
Speaker 3: the United States. That's the greatest country in history. So

726
00:40:05,760 --> 00:40:10,040
Speaker 3: we have to work together. Unfortunately, each university president, especially

727
00:40:10,080 --> 00:40:14,120
Speaker 3: the new university presidents, they've been told by boards to

728
00:40:14,239 --> 00:40:17,399
Speaker 3: dock their hats so other universities get hit and they

729
00:40:17,400 --> 00:40:21,480
Speaker 3: don't get noticed. That is implicitly what they're saying, Molly, Now,

730
00:40:21,719 --> 00:40:28,160
Speaker 3: so the strategy has to be to work together. Unfortunately,

731
00:40:28,600 --> 00:40:32,640
Speaker 3: if you are university presidents saying, well, we're hoping to

732
00:40:32,880 --> 00:40:37,200
Speaker 3: escape relatively unscathed by keeping our heads down and letting

733
00:40:37,239 --> 00:40:42,080
Speaker 3: other universities get hit, that's the opposite of working together, and.

734
00:40:41,960 --> 00:40:45,239
Speaker 1: That ultimately is the problem. If we look at Columbia

735
00:40:45,239 --> 00:40:48,239
Speaker 1: and sort of what's happened to them, they have acquiesced

736
00:40:48,280 --> 00:40:51,640
Speaker 1: on each point, and Trump world has just kept going right.

737
00:40:52,000 --> 00:40:54,719
Speaker 3: Cap Man, the philosopher cap Man at Cornell, has a

738
00:40:54,760 --> 00:40:57,480
Speaker 3: piece where she talks about domestic abuse in the attack

739
00:40:57,560 --> 00:41:01,040
Speaker 3: on universities. She's saying that it's it's the same you know,

740
00:41:01,080 --> 00:41:04,520
Speaker 3: you think you can placate your domestic abuser, but you cannot.

741
00:41:04,800 --> 00:41:08,000
Speaker 3: It's the same logic going on. I said recently to

742
00:41:08,080 --> 00:41:10,680
Speaker 3: a friend of mine, I said, wow, they're like holding

743
00:41:10,920 --> 00:41:14,279
Speaker 3: billions of dollars of federal funding against us unless we

744
00:41:14,320 --> 00:41:16,120
Speaker 3: do what they say. And she looked at me like

745
00:41:16,120 --> 00:41:19,440
Speaker 3: I was an idiot and said, no, they're holding billions

746
00:41:19,440 --> 00:41:22,440
Speaker 3: of dollars. They're gonna slash billions of dollars no matter

747
00:41:22,480 --> 00:41:25,319
Speaker 3: what you say. They don't air at all. And so

748
00:41:25,520 --> 00:41:31,000
Speaker 3: Columbia's administration is now an international embarrassment and will go

749
00:41:31,080 --> 00:41:34,360
Speaker 3: down in history as for its cowardice.

750
00:41:34,520 --> 00:41:38,239
Speaker 1: But here's a question about Colombia. So what has happened

751
00:41:38,400 --> 00:41:42,920
Speaker 1: now is they've they've lost four hundred million dollars in grants, right,

752
00:41:43,680 --> 00:41:45,560
Speaker 1: so far A lot of these grants are for the

753
00:41:45,600 --> 00:41:48,640
Speaker 1: medical school, right, I mean this is not even you

754
00:41:48,680 --> 00:41:52,040
Speaker 1: know they have a big teaching hospital. It's pediatric cancer,

755
00:41:52,280 --> 00:41:56,080
Speaker 1: it's autoimmune diseases, it's this, it's that it has nothing

756
00:41:56,120 --> 00:42:00,000
Speaker 1: to do with woke anything, right, anything, nothing, And it's

757
00:42:00,360 --> 00:42:04,279
Speaker 1: a lot of medicine stuff. Then we have other kind

758
00:42:04,360 --> 00:42:07,680
Speaker 1: of forays into We don't know what the connection is

759
00:42:07,800 --> 00:42:12,279
Speaker 1: between the university and what happened to Muhammad Khalil, right,

760
00:42:12,719 --> 00:42:15,120
Speaker 1: Right do we know? We don't really know. We know

761
00:42:15,280 --> 00:42:18,440
Speaker 1: he was the negotiator with the faculty. We know that

762
00:42:18,600 --> 00:42:22,040
Speaker 1: ice showed up at his house. We know that he

763
00:42:22,200 --> 00:42:25,840
Speaker 1: is now in a detention center in Louisiana, still not

764
00:42:26,200 --> 00:42:27,400
Speaker 1: charged with anything.

765
00:42:27,760 --> 00:42:29,919
Speaker 3: Well, how can you charge him with anything? If they

766
00:42:30,080 --> 00:42:34,239
Speaker 3: can charge Khalil with something, they can charge any of

767
00:42:34,320 --> 00:42:36,600
Speaker 3: us because he is he is a green card, he

768
00:42:36,680 --> 00:42:40,040
Speaker 3: is the same rights. So if they charge him with something,

769
00:42:40,280 --> 00:42:41,719
Speaker 3: they can charge any of us.

770
00:42:41,920 --> 00:42:45,520
Speaker 1: I mean the question with Khalil is when does this end?

771
00:42:45,680 --> 00:42:45,839
Speaker 5: Right?

772
00:42:45,880 --> 00:42:48,000
Speaker 1: I mean, this is all opening the door to extra

773
00:42:48,120 --> 00:42:52,080
Speaker 1: law full a new paradigm in American life that we

774
00:42:52,160 --> 00:42:54,560
Speaker 1: go back to the red scare right where you can

775
00:42:54,680 --> 00:42:58,520
Speaker 1: arrest people for thought crimes and bad opinions. I mean,

776
00:42:58,560 --> 00:42:59,920
Speaker 1: that's what we're opening the door to.

777
00:43:00,080 --> 00:43:03,880
Speaker 3: Here, opening the door. The door's already open. This is

778
00:43:03,920 --> 00:43:07,239
Speaker 3: going to be worse than the McCarthy era, probably already.

779
00:43:07,360 --> 00:43:10,360
Speaker 3: You know where it's. I know your grandfather, Howard Fast

780
00:43:10,520 --> 00:43:13,640
Speaker 3: was a hero of that era, and so you know

781
00:43:13,719 --> 00:43:17,280
Speaker 3: you have a particular legacy and a role to play

782
00:43:17,360 --> 00:43:20,640
Speaker 3: at this time, Molly, given your personal history. I spoke

783
00:43:20,719 --> 00:43:24,160
Speaker 3: to the Michigan Faculty Senate on Friday with Isaac Camola,

784
00:43:24,320 --> 00:43:27,879
Speaker 3: or the Assembly of the Senate University of Michigan, when

785
00:43:27,920 --> 00:43:29,759
Speaker 3: it was out in an arbor's but he asked me

786
00:43:29,840 --> 00:43:32,560
Speaker 3: and Isaac Camola and I to come speak. Isaac Camola

787
00:43:32,600 --> 00:43:35,319
Speaker 3: is at Trinity College. He's a scholar, among other things

788
00:43:35,360 --> 00:43:38,919
Speaker 3: of higher education, and his talk was about the relationship

789
00:43:38,920 --> 00:43:41,719
Speaker 3: between the current moment and the McCarthy era, so a

790
00:43:41,880 --> 00:43:44,120
Speaker 3: sort of deep dive into that, and he was pointing

791
00:43:44,120 --> 00:43:48,759
Speaker 3: out similarities and differences. One difference he pointed out is

792
00:43:48,800 --> 00:43:52,480
Speaker 3: that it's not this attack is not associated with one

793
00:43:52,600 --> 00:43:57,719
Speaker 3: person what we've had. So back then you could humiliate McCarthy,

794
00:43:57,800 --> 00:44:01,279
Speaker 3: Joseph McCarthy, and then you could gain action against the

795
00:44:01,280 --> 00:44:04,680
Speaker 3: red scale, but now it's the right wing. The Kochs

796
00:44:04,800 --> 00:44:08,040
Speaker 3: and other foundations started funding this attack on the universities

797
00:44:08,080 --> 00:44:10,399
Speaker 3: in twenty fifteen, really with a lot of funding. That's

798
00:44:10,400 --> 00:44:13,200
Speaker 3: when you started to see all these concerned all this

799
00:44:13,840 --> 00:44:16,359
Speaker 3: concern trolling in the media. And so we've had ten

800
00:44:16,480 --> 00:44:20,319
Speaker 3: years of that attack. We don't have people understanding and

801
00:44:20,440 --> 00:44:26,160
Speaker 3: valuing what universities do like other countries would kill for Harvard, Yale,

802
00:44:26,280 --> 00:44:29,960
Speaker 3: Princeton and Columbia Michigan. And you know, we have the

803
00:44:29,960 --> 00:44:33,360
Speaker 3: greatest universities in the world, and they produce an immense

804
00:44:33,360 --> 00:44:37,040
Speaker 3: amount for the United States. And also they're symbols of

805
00:44:37,040 --> 00:44:39,839
Speaker 3: our greatness. What else do we have that is as

806
00:44:39,880 --> 00:44:41,120
Speaker 3: great is our universities.

807
00:44:41,360 --> 00:44:43,520
Speaker 1: I want to pause here for sent because I spend

808
00:44:43,560 --> 00:44:46,880
Speaker 1: a lot of time interviewing Clay Risen from the New

809
00:44:46,960 --> 00:44:49,120
Speaker 1: York Times, who just wrote a book about McCarthy, which

810
00:44:49,120 --> 00:44:52,000
Speaker 1: my grandfather is documented in. We have been having this

811
00:44:52,080 --> 00:44:55,200
Speaker 1: conversation for the last week actually about whether or not

812
00:44:55,280 --> 00:44:59,680
Speaker 1: this is worse than McCarthy is. It's stupid conversation because

813
00:44:59,760 --> 00:45:02,239
Speaker 1: it is is what it is, right, But we both

814
00:45:02,239 --> 00:45:04,359
Speaker 1: have gotten very stuck on this idea. Is it worse

815
00:45:04,360 --> 00:45:05,360
Speaker 1: than McCarthyism? Is it?

816
00:45:05,640 --> 00:45:07,120
Speaker 3: That's what a lot of people are talking about.

817
00:45:07,200 --> 00:45:11,000
Speaker 1: My hottest take is that actually it's still better than

818
00:45:11,080 --> 00:45:17,440
Speaker 1: McCarthy because I know here's why. Because during McCarthyism, you

819
00:45:17,480 --> 00:45:21,120
Speaker 1: didn't really have a free press. You had network television,

820
00:45:21,120 --> 00:45:23,440
Speaker 1: but it was still really controlled by the government, and

821
00:45:23,480 --> 00:45:26,600
Speaker 1: they could still say standard says, you can't put this

822
00:45:26,719 --> 00:45:30,240
Speaker 1: on the air. There was a lot more government control

823
00:45:30,360 --> 00:45:35,279
Speaker 1: of media. And now even though people don't read, you

824
00:45:35,520 --> 00:45:38,920
Speaker 1: have infinite you know, areas for context.

825
00:45:39,160 --> 00:45:41,719
Speaker 3: But Molly, I already pre responded to you. What I

826
00:45:41,760 --> 00:45:45,200
Speaker 3: said is the media has already saine washed the attack

827
00:45:45,239 --> 00:45:49,120
Speaker 3: on the universities, and Times in the past had already

828
00:45:49,480 --> 00:45:54,040
Speaker 3: stocked their opinion pages with the people who've done this

829
00:45:54,200 --> 00:45:58,400
Speaker 3: sain washing. So who've done nothing but be dupes for fascism.

830
00:45:58,480 --> 00:46:01,359
Speaker 3: So you know, the media is already committed to the

831
00:46:01,400 --> 00:46:04,319
Speaker 3: line that the excuse is that the Trump regime is

832
00:46:04,440 --> 00:46:07,680
Speaker 3: using to dismantle the universities. They're the ones who gave

833
00:46:07,719 --> 00:46:10,520
Speaker 3: them the free speech thing and the anti Semitism thing,

834
00:46:10,680 --> 00:46:14,600
Speaker 3: also McCarthyism, although it was directed against Jews of course.

835
00:46:14,880 --> 00:46:18,520
Speaker 3: Right now I think is the worst time for American

836
00:46:18,600 --> 00:46:23,480
Speaker 3: Jews in our history, not because of anti war protests

837
00:46:23,520 --> 00:46:27,800
Speaker 3: and criticisms of Israel, but because we're being set off split.

838
00:46:27,920 --> 00:46:29,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, well we're also being split.

839
00:46:29,480 --> 00:46:31,520
Speaker 3: Well, it's not being split. Jews are always split, We're

840
00:46:31,520 --> 00:46:34,680
Speaker 3: always split. It's we have never been this salient in

841
00:46:34,760 --> 00:46:39,600
Speaker 3: American life. And the history books will look back and say, good,

842
00:46:40,000 --> 00:46:43,920
Speaker 3: hook down. Never good to be this ailiate, to be

843
00:46:44,040 --> 00:46:48,120
Speaker 3: responsible for the takedown of the American university systems. What

844
00:46:48,200 --> 00:46:50,920
Speaker 3: are the history books going to say, we're being used?

845
00:46:51,480 --> 00:46:53,880
Speaker 1: Jason Stanley, you and I are going to talk more

846
00:46:53,920 --> 00:46:57,839
Speaker 1: about this on the phone. Yes, my body so good.

847
00:46:57,920 --> 00:46:59,759
Speaker 1: Appreciate you, thank.

848
00:46:59,520 --> 00:47:02,360
Speaker 3: You, I so appreciate you. Molly.

849
00:47:03,800 --> 00:47:06,400
Speaker 1: And now we have a special clip from our YouTube

850
00:47:06,440 --> 00:47:09,640
Speaker 1: channel where I Fight Fight Fight with James Carvell about

851
00:47:09,680 --> 00:47:15,560
Speaker 1: how Democrats can fight back against the mega agenda. Hello, friend, Now,

852
00:47:16,920 --> 00:47:21,560
Speaker 1: so let's talk about you and I have a disagreement.

853
00:47:21,719 --> 00:47:24,680
Speaker 1: So let's what I mean. I don't know that we

854
00:47:24,800 --> 00:47:27,480
Speaker 1: disagree as much as we think we disagree.

855
00:47:28,000 --> 00:47:31,880
Speaker 6: Right, it's always generally that's the question that sometimes you

856
00:47:31,960 --> 00:47:34,759
Speaker 6: fight over something and you stop and you think, wait

857
00:47:34,760 --> 00:47:37,239
Speaker 6: a minute, it's not that big of a disagreement.

858
00:47:37,760 --> 00:47:40,360
Speaker 1: But let's but let's talk us through. You wrote a

859
00:47:40,360 --> 00:47:43,120
Speaker 1: piece for the New York Times opinion page. It's now

860
00:47:43,239 --> 00:47:45,799
Speaker 1: three weeks ago? Is it three weeks ago or three

861
00:47:45,920 --> 00:47:46,520
Speaker 1: years ago?

862
00:47:47,040 --> 00:47:47,279
Speaker 3: Right?

863
00:47:47,800 --> 00:47:49,359
Speaker 1: Tell me what your thesis was.

864
00:47:50,280 --> 00:47:57,399
Speaker 6: My thesis is this that there's genuine anger in the party. Yeah,

865
00:47:57,640 --> 00:48:03,560
Speaker 6: genuine frustration is genuine, and everybody wants to do something

866
00:48:03,600 --> 00:48:06,560
Speaker 6: and do something. Now, clearly I want to do something.

867
00:48:06,800 --> 00:48:10,640
Speaker 6: I want to stop this insanity. Is the best and

868
00:48:10,719 --> 00:48:14,919
Speaker 6: most effective I can. But you gotta let events come

869
00:48:14,960 --> 00:48:16,600
Speaker 6: to you, and they're coming to you fast.

870
00:48:16,719 --> 00:48:17,000
Speaker 3: Okay.

871
00:48:17,160 --> 00:48:20,799
Speaker 6: I mean the Schumer thinks everybody's and then when you

872
00:48:20,880 --> 00:48:23,960
Speaker 6: kind of read what his thinking was, you can disagree

873
00:48:24,000 --> 00:48:26,080
Speaker 6: with it, but it's not insane, right.

874
00:48:26,200 --> 00:48:28,080
Speaker 1: I think he made the wrong choice, but he did

875
00:48:28,080 --> 00:48:29,120
Speaker 1: not have great choices.

876
00:48:29,560 --> 00:48:34,040
Speaker 6: Right, What we know is we have there's one objective

877
00:48:34,080 --> 00:48:36,440
Speaker 6: and we know this and that is winning the election.

878
00:48:37,200 --> 00:48:40,000
Speaker 6: And anything that you can do to increase your chances

879
00:48:40,040 --> 00:48:43,080
Speaker 6: of winning the election is exactly what you do. There's

880
00:48:43,160 --> 00:48:47,320
Speaker 6: no other principle in politics. You can't destroy these people anymore,

881
00:48:47,320 --> 00:48:52,480
Speaker 6: and they're destroying himself right. And for the action now caucus,

882
00:48:52,680 --> 00:48:55,120
Speaker 6: my question is what action that we want to do?

883
00:48:55,320 --> 00:48:58,359
Speaker 6: Goddamn it we want Okay, what are we going to do? Well?

884
00:48:58,400 --> 00:48:59,520
Speaker 1: This is the big question.

885
00:49:00,960 --> 00:49:03,320
Speaker 6: So if you're like I am. I spoke to the

886
00:49:03,360 --> 00:49:06,359
Speaker 6: House Democratic Caucus yesterday. There are times Comperence and Gold

887
00:49:06,400 --> 00:49:09,480
Speaker 6: mag and they're talking about the split between the younger

888
00:49:09,480 --> 00:49:12,840
Speaker 6: Democrats who want more aggressive things and the older Democrats

889
00:49:13,480 --> 00:49:18,120
Speaker 6: does not abide by shut learn other people that are

890
00:49:19,120 --> 00:49:22,480
Speaker 6: advising strategic patients. I guess let's just call it that

891
00:49:22,680 --> 00:49:25,200
Speaker 6: to give it a word. And I think it's not

892
00:49:25,320 --> 00:49:28,360
Speaker 6: so much young and old. People that live in districts

893
00:49:28,360 --> 00:49:32,920
Speaker 6: that are twenty six percent Democratic have a different world

894
00:49:33,000 --> 00:49:35,640
Speaker 6: viewed and people that live in a district that is

895
00:49:36,080 --> 00:49:40,000
Speaker 6: two percent of representative district, that's two percent in favoring

896
00:49:41,239 --> 00:49:44,480
Speaker 6: And if we're about winning the election, then we have

897
00:49:44,600 --> 00:49:49,400
Speaker 6: to play to the plus or minus four cook PVI.

898
00:49:50,360 --> 00:49:54,359
Speaker 6: We have to play to that people in states where

899
00:49:54,360 --> 00:49:56,760
Speaker 6: we have elections coming up that we went. We can't

900
00:49:56,840 --> 00:50:02,640
Speaker 6: play to a district that's you know, Central Los Angeles

901
00:50:02,640 --> 00:50:04,600
Speaker 6: that we couldn't lose if we tried.

902
00:50:05,040 --> 00:50:09,160
Speaker 1: Okay, so I'm going to read you something from the

903
00:50:09,280 --> 00:50:17,480
Speaker 1: chief of staff of my future husband. No, I'm just kidding.

904
00:50:17,880 --> 00:50:21,839
Speaker 1: Governor of Illinois JB. Pritzker, his chief of staff. The

905
00:50:21,920 --> 00:50:25,080
Speaker 1: fight going on in the Democratic Right Party right now

906
00:50:25,239 --> 00:50:28,120
Speaker 1: is not between hard left left and moderate. It's between

907
00:50:28,160 --> 00:50:30,319
Speaker 1: those who want to fight and those who want to

908
00:50:30,400 --> 00:50:35,160
Speaker 1: cave and team fight stretches across all the ideological aspects

909
00:50:35,200 --> 00:50:38,000
Speaker 1: of the party. Misread this at your own peril.

910
00:50:38,840 --> 00:50:42,400
Speaker 6: True or false, it's abundantly false.

911
00:50:43,200 --> 00:50:44,160
Speaker 1: Oh oh interesting.

912
00:50:44,360 --> 00:50:46,719
Speaker 6: Tell me why do you want to win or you

913
00:50:46,800 --> 00:50:49,640
Speaker 6: don't want to win? The question is not do we

914
00:50:49,719 --> 00:50:51,840
Speaker 6: fight or do we not fight? The question is do

915
00:50:51,920 --> 00:50:54,879
Speaker 6: we win or not win? JB. Pritsker can't lose an

916
00:50:54,880 --> 00:50:58,399
Speaker 6: election in Illinois. He would have a different view if

917
00:50:58,440 --> 00:51:02,320
Speaker 6: it was Michigan, a different view if if it was made.

918
00:51:02,520 --> 00:51:04,680
Speaker 6: You'd have a different view if it was North Carolina.

919
00:51:04,840 --> 00:51:08,960
Speaker 6: When George Washington when the British landed at Long Island.

920
00:51:09,239 --> 00:51:12,480
Speaker 6: You know what George Washington did, He would treating to Trenton.

921
00:51:12,760 --> 00:51:16,160
Speaker 6: And you know what happened at Trenton treated the valley

922
00:51:16,200 --> 00:51:18,799
Speaker 6: forge and ended up in Trenton and ended up went

923
00:51:18,800 --> 00:51:22,279
Speaker 6: into war. So to the people who say we want

924
00:51:22,320 --> 00:51:26,520
Speaker 6: to fight, great fight, How you don't have the votes.

925
00:51:27,040 --> 00:51:31,960
Speaker 6: You can't pass gas. That's the consequence of losing an election.

926
00:51:32,440 --> 00:51:35,800
Speaker 6: All right, get over it, dude. You're in a state

927
00:51:36,360 --> 00:51:40,000
Speaker 6: that we can't lose. So you can send that out

928
00:51:40,239 --> 00:51:43,319
Speaker 6: in all of the Democratic donors on the North side

929
00:51:43,360 --> 00:51:43,960
Speaker 6: of Chicago.

930
00:51:44,120 --> 00:51:45,719
Speaker 3: Yeah, you're right, God damn it, you're right.

931
00:51:45,840 --> 00:51:48,640
Speaker 6: You know, tired of each goddamn fuzzy sitting around you

932
00:51:48,760 --> 00:51:51,279
Speaker 6: don't know whether to you know, want to ask the

933
00:51:51,320 --> 00:51:52,200
Speaker 6: scratch they watch?

934
00:51:52,239 --> 00:51:53,520
Speaker 1: We got to go out and get them.

935
00:51:53,920 --> 00:51:56,319
Speaker 3: How what right?

936
00:51:56,800 --> 00:52:00,520
Speaker 1: If you were Mitch McConnell and you were in this situation,

937
00:52:00,760 --> 00:52:03,560
Speaker 1: what would you do? It's a thought experiment.

938
00:52:04,080 --> 00:52:06,480
Speaker 6: I say this jokingly. If I were miss McConnell, I

939
00:52:06,520 --> 00:52:09,400
Speaker 6: was shot myself a long time ago, you know, right,

940
00:52:11,200 --> 00:52:14,160
Speaker 6: But but but now there, if.

941
00:52:14,040 --> 00:52:16,360
Speaker 1: You were Mitch McConnell, you would have an opportunity.

942
00:52:16,400 --> 00:52:21,160
Speaker 3: What would you do again to the do something caucus?

943
00:52:21,680 --> 00:52:22,640
Speaker 6: Do what?

944
00:52:23,800 --> 00:52:26,640
Speaker 1: Well, then that's my question for you. What would Mitch

945
00:52:26,719 --> 00:52:27,319
Speaker 1: McConnell do.

946
00:52:27,719 --> 00:52:28,239
Speaker 3: I don't know.

947
00:52:28,640 --> 00:52:32,920
Speaker 6: I mean, he's compromised himself on so many different occasions.

948
00:52:33,440 --> 00:52:36,720
Speaker 6: He he did not go through with the peatment of Trump,

949
00:52:37,040 --> 00:52:41,279
Speaker 6: which would have prevented Trump from running again right time

950
00:52:41,360 --> 00:52:43,480
Speaker 6: and time. You know, he had to stand down for

951
00:52:43,520 --> 00:52:46,160
Speaker 6: his caucus. I'm sure that Trump people don't care what

952
00:52:46,200 --> 00:52:48,080
Speaker 6: mich Cone does whatever he wants.

953
00:52:48,040 --> 00:52:51,279
Speaker 1: Right, No, but my but the thought experiment here is,

954
00:52:51,680 --> 00:52:57,040
Speaker 1: say you were you had the sheer cravenness of a

955
00:52:57,120 --> 00:53:00,680
Speaker 1: Mitch McConnell, and you were in the leadership of the

956
00:53:00,680 --> 00:53:01,640
Speaker 1: Democratic Party.

957
00:53:02,000 --> 00:53:02,640
Speaker 3: What would you do?

958
00:53:02,680 --> 00:53:06,480
Speaker 1: I mean, because we know that if these situations were reversed,

959
00:53:06,480 --> 00:53:08,880
Speaker 1: Mitch McConnell would be gumming up the works like you

960
00:53:08,920 --> 00:53:11,919
Speaker 1: can't believe it. I mean, think about Tommy Tuberville when

961
00:53:11,960 --> 00:53:15,000
Speaker 1: he prevented all of those.

962
00:53:15,920 --> 00:53:20,000
Speaker 6: Do you think that that helped the Republicans? Well, that

963
00:53:20,160 --> 00:53:22,800
Speaker 6: was Tommy Tulville, who Now we're going to take our

964
00:53:23,280 --> 00:53:25,760
Speaker 6: cute from a guy who's got a fifty two IQ.

965
00:53:26,160 --> 00:53:29,440
Speaker 1: All right, seems generous, But I'm just saying, coming up

966
00:53:29,440 --> 00:53:31,200
Speaker 1: the works. There's ways to do it.

967
00:53:31,280 --> 00:53:32,359
Speaker 4: How do you come them up?

968
00:53:32,560 --> 00:53:34,359
Speaker 6: Give me a way that you come up the work

969
00:53:34,480 --> 00:53:35,600
Speaker 6: so we have that.

970
00:53:35,719 --> 00:53:38,080
Speaker 1: You come up the works, you do a talking filibuster

971
00:53:38,239 --> 00:53:40,280
Speaker 1: for twenty four hours, and you make it so everybody

972
00:53:40,320 --> 00:53:44,040
Speaker 1: can't go on vacation. To hear more of this conversation,

973
00:53:44,280 --> 00:53:50,360
Speaker 1: please go over to YouTube and search for Molly Jong

974
00:53:50,680 --> 00:53:59,640
Speaker 1: Fast Fast Politics, No Moment, Jesse.

975
00:54:00,880 --> 00:54:03,719
Speaker 2: Mai. So I've decided I'm going to send you a

976
00:54:03,800 --> 00:54:06,360
Speaker 2: shocker here that you may not have seen for a

977
00:54:06,440 --> 00:54:09,960
Speaker 2: moment of fuckery. The listeners may remember this woman on

978
00:54:10,080 --> 00:54:13,880
Speaker 2: the right named Valentina Gomez, who once ran for Missouri

979
00:54:14,280 --> 00:54:16,799
Speaker 2: secretary of State and has now decided to move to

980
00:54:17,160 --> 00:54:21,799
Speaker 2: another state and run against Texas's Congressman Dan Crudshaw. And

981
00:54:21,840 --> 00:54:24,239
Speaker 2: she's been trying to get some attention. But I think

982
00:54:24,280 --> 00:54:27,279
Speaker 2: that this is actually the funniest campaign out of the year.

983
00:54:27,600 --> 00:54:29,239
Speaker 1: Let's hear exus.

984
00:54:29,480 --> 00:54:32,400
Speaker 7: It's time you find out what district I chose to

985
00:54:32,400 --> 00:54:38,120
Speaker 7: represent you in Congress. I've taken down pedophiles, criminals, corrupt politicians,

986
00:54:38,239 --> 00:54:40,680
Speaker 7: and now I'm coming for the Joe Biden of the

987
00:54:40,719 --> 00:54:43,680
Speaker 7: Republican Party and when you got me into Congress, I

988
00:54:43,719 --> 00:54:47,000
Speaker 7: will become the greatest stock traitor of all time. And

989
00:54:47,080 --> 00:54:49,160
Speaker 7: the best thing about it is that I will be

990
00:54:49,200 --> 00:54:52,359
Speaker 7: sharing every single one of my traits on XO so

991
00:54:52,400 --> 00:54:54,760
Speaker 7: you can get rich with me, and also to piss

992
00:54:54,800 --> 00:54:58,600
Speaker 7: off every member of Congress that makes money from privileged information.

993
00:54:59,200 --> 00:55:00,000
Speaker 1: They've been ticked tik.

994
00:55:00,400 --> 00:55:03,520
Speaker 7: Let's see how fast the Bank Congressional stock Trading or

995
00:55:03,600 --> 00:55:07,120
Speaker 7: puts her limits Texas thirty first Congressional District.

996
00:55:07,440 --> 00:55:09,680
Speaker 1: Buckle up, because this time I'm.

997
00:55:09,560 --> 00:55:13,040
Speaker 7: Coming with a warchest of cash and crypto.

998
00:55:14,239 --> 00:55:19,120
Speaker 1: Oh Jesus, She's coming with a word chest of cash

999
00:55:19,160 --> 00:55:19,720
Speaker 1: and crypto.

1000
00:55:20,719 --> 00:55:22,960
Speaker 2: She ends the video with a picture of her with

1001
00:55:23,000 --> 00:55:26,360
Speaker 2: her automatic weapon and a cyber truck.

1002
00:55:26,680 --> 00:55:31,440
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I was hoping excellent, as one does.

1003
00:55:32,200 --> 00:55:35,319
Speaker 2: You and I have pressured a lot of politicians that

1004
00:55:35,440 --> 00:55:37,960
Speaker 2: we don't think this stock trading should come through. Much

1005
00:55:38,080 --> 00:55:40,479
Speaker 2: like when I wanted an atheist president and I got

1006
00:55:40,520 --> 00:55:42,759
Speaker 2: Donald Trump. This is not the way I want this

1007
00:55:42,840 --> 00:55:43,280
Speaker 2: to happen.

1008
00:55:43,560 --> 00:55:48,600
Speaker 1: If her congressional run means that there is a congressional

1009
00:55:48,640 --> 00:55:52,279
Speaker 1: stock trading ban, I'll take it. If there's one thing

1010
00:55:52,800 --> 00:55:56,080
Speaker 1: I want in this world, If there's one present that

1011
00:55:56,200 --> 00:55:59,120
Speaker 1: you could give me for Christmas. It is a congressional

1012
00:55:59,160 --> 00:56:00,200
Speaker 1: stock trade.

1013
00:56:00,440 --> 00:56:02,879
Speaker 2: Van in mine. I'm not going to stay on air.

1014
00:56:03,840 --> 00:56:08,200
Speaker 1: That's it for this episode of Fast Politics. Tune in

1015
00:56:08,480 --> 00:56:13,960
Speaker 1: every Monday, Wednesday, Thursday and Saturday to hear the best

1016
00:56:14,040 --> 00:56:18,319
Speaker 1: minds and politics make sense of all this chaos. If

1017
00:56:18,360 --> 00:56:21,400
Speaker 1: you enjoy this podcast, please send it to a friend

1018
00:56:21,840 --> 00:56:25,080
Speaker 1: and keep the conversation going. Thanks for listening.