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Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie, and you're listening to stuff I've

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Speaker 1: never told you as we record this episode. The holidays

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Speaker 1: are bearing down upon us. And yes, I say bearing

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Speaker 1: because one of the things I've noticed as I've gotten older,

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Speaker 1: one of the keystones of adulthood, I would say, is

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Speaker 1: that the holidays shift from something that you look forward

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Speaker 1: to to something that totally stresses you out. I was

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Speaker 1: just talking about this off Mike with producer Andrew about

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Speaker 1: how it's kind of funny to me that it's just

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Speaker 1: assumed that the holidays are going to be a really

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Speaker 1: stressful time instead of perhaps what they were when you

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Speaker 1: were a kid, something that you looked forward to that

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Speaker 1: was fun and relaxing. And this has been my experience,

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Speaker 1: and anecdotally the experience of a lot of my friends.

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Speaker 1: Maybe I'm holidaying wrong, but if i am, i am

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Speaker 1: not the only one. The holidays are major stressors on relationships.

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Speaker 1: American Thanksgiving is practically synonymous with fighting with your family. Recently,

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Speaker 1: I was at the work at conference, which is a

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Speaker 1: conference for women in podcasting, where Bridget was part of

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Speaker 1: a fantastic panel, and someone from Vox came up to

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Speaker 1: me for sort of a woman on the street bit

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Speaker 1: about how do you deal with disagreements with your family

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Speaker 1: at Thanksgiving? That's how prevalent this is. The holidays don't

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Speaker 1: just put a strain on family relationships either, they're also

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Speaker 1: a stressor on couples. In fact, tis the season for

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Speaker 1: holiday breakups, for breakups in general, but we'll call them

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Speaker 1: holiday breakups. And in this classic episode, you'll find out

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Speaker 1: why breakups are so common this time of year and

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Speaker 1: get some tips for how to handle stress, whether you're

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Speaker 1: in a relationship or not. Enjoy and as much as

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Speaker 1: you can, take care of yourself and enjoy the holidays. Listeners,

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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff Mob Never told you from how stup

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Speaker 1: works dot com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. I'm

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Speaker 1: Caroline and I'm Kristen, and welcome to the very end

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Speaker 1: of the year. We have made it through Thanksgiving, Monica, Christmas, uh,

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Speaker 1: and now we are standing on the precipice looking towards

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Speaker 1: the new year. We've almost made it through the holidays season. Stressful,

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Speaker 1: stressful holiday season. I hope everyone has survived all right

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Speaker 1: so far. Take a breath. Yeah, it's a tough time

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Speaker 1: of year. And I'm not just saying tough because if

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Speaker 1: I hear uh police nabby Dad in one more store,

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Speaker 1: I might have an issue, but because they are physically

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Speaker 1: physiologically stressful. Yeah, there was an article, for instance, in

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Speaker 1: the journal Hospital Practice that equated Christmas and New Year's

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Speaker 1: in people's minds with stressors like blizzards, experiencing earthquakes, the

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Speaker 1: threat of violence, and job strain. What is going on,

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Speaker 1: I don't know what's happening. Well, first of all, there

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Speaker 1: is the issue of just the season. It's winter. It

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Speaker 1: gets darker sooner. I know, I don't see sunlight nearly

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Speaker 1: as much as I would like to, and it's cold,

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Speaker 1: and so the Surgeon General actually issued a holiday stress

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Speaker 1: management warning focusing on seasonal effectiveness disorder or SAD, which

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Speaker 1: affects around ten percent of the population. Yeah, you're spending

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Speaker 1: a lot of money, you're not sleeping, well, you might

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Speaker 1: feel lonely in this all this lack of daylight, and

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Speaker 1: you know, you might actually have some physical responses to

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Speaker 1: all of this holiday uncheer. There's something called the Holiday

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Speaker 1: Heart Center METS. Cardiac abnormality is caused by drinking more

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Speaker 1: than usual. So even in your celebrations this holiday, you

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Speaker 1: could be causing yourself some physical stress, although we do

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Speaker 1: have one bit of debunking to do. Um. It's often

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Speaker 1: thought that because of all of these different holiday factors

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Speaker 1: and possible loneliness, family stress, gift buying madness, that rates

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Speaker 1: of depression go up. We hear that a lot um,

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Speaker 1: but a two thousand six New York Times article by

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Speaker 1: Anahad O'Connor examined that claim and debunked it. Um. He

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Speaker 1: maintained that psychiatric visits actually dip during December, and a

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Speaker 1: Mayo clinic study spanning thirty five years found no correlation

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Speaker 1: between the holidays and suicide. Well that's good, that is good,

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Speaker 1: But I just wonder if the dip in psychiatric visits

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Speaker 1: isn't just because people are not taking care of themselves

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Speaker 1: during the holidays. Yeah, it could very well be that

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Speaker 1: it could also be the hectic holidays schedule as well,

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Speaker 1: because that was the only bright spot in all of

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Speaker 1: the medical literature in regard to the holidays. Yeah, not

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Speaker 1: just medical literature, like personal psychology, logical emotional literature too. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: which is why we're going to focus today on whether

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Speaker 1: the holidays are not so healthy for relationships. Because Carolina

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Speaker 1: learned a new term and it's called the turkey drop.

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Speaker 1: That sounds fun. Is not a game, it is, well

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Speaker 1: to some people, it might be a game because it

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Speaker 1: denotes this period from Thanksgiving too right before Christmas, when

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Speaker 1: more breakups happen than any other time of the year.

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Speaker 1: I hope we're not hitting too close to home for

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Speaker 1: some listeners. Well, if we are hitting close to home, though,

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Speaker 1: at least take heart if you're a broken hearted listener

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Speaker 1: that you are not alone at all, right, exactly, you're

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Speaker 1: definitely not. UM. And the reason we know this there's

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Speaker 1: been quite a discussion that was stirred after an info

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Speaker 1: graphic was posted on the Internet a few years back.

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Speaker 1: It was created by Lee Byron and David McCandless of

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Speaker 1: Information is Beautiful. UM. They wrote the book The Visual Miscellaneum,

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Speaker 1: and they plotted Facebook relationship status data across a timeline

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Speaker 1: and found some peak breakup times people. One right before

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Speaker 1: spring break called the Spring clean, and one two weeks

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Speaker 1: before Christmas. Yeah, to get specific about it, the first

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Speaker 1: Monday in December is the most common day to break up.

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Speaker 1: So hey, we've made it through that period. We got

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Speaker 1: we got through that. UM. And the way that they

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Speaker 1: gathered this data where they weren't just like looking at

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Speaker 1: their friends Facebook status is, but they actually searched for

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Speaker 1: the frequency of breakup and broken up in Facebook status

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Speaker 1: is using a Facebook data gathering tool that is no

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Speaker 1: longer in existence unfortunately, but allowed you to to search

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Speaker 1: a broad range of Facebook profiles. And they also set

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Speaker 1: up a program that logged the dates of changes in

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Speaker 1: relationships status is onto a calendar. Yeah, McCandless said, you know,

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Speaker 1: I wouldn't call it a study. He was saying that

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Speaker 1: it's not the intention to claim that anything is definitely true.

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Speaker 1: It's just an interesting pattern that happens. And Byron second

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Speaker 1: to that and say it's it's more of a curious exploration. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: But the thing is, even though McCandless environ are clearly

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Speaker 1: trying to pump the brakes on everyone trying to make

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Speaker 1: this collection of Facebook status is into something more scientific

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Speaker 1: than it really is, the attention that it got across

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Speaker 1: news and media outlets was incredible because maybe it was

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Speaker 1: simply a confirmation of an anecdotal turkey drop pattern that

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Speaker 1: we had experienced or since um because it clearly hit

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Speaker 1: a nerve. If you just look at all of the

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Speaker 1: stories talking about it, but on a bright side, Christmas Day.

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Speaker 1: Guess what, folks, that is the least likely day that

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Speaker 1: you will get dumped. Because seriously, if you are with

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Speaker 1: someone who breaks up with you on Christmas Day, that

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Speaker 1: something is either horribly wrong and that relationship needs to end,

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Speaker 1: or that also that relationship needs to end because that

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Speaker 1: person doesn't have a heart. Yeah, that sounds like a

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Speaker 1: mega fight happen um. But side note, speaking of cruelty,

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Speaker 1: the most the third most popular excuse me breakup dawn

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Speaker 1: Facebook is apparently April Fool's Day. Oh come on now,

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Speaker 1: which is not funny. And for one more bit of

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Speaker 1: social media data, Lee Byron and David mccannlis also looked

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Speaker 1: at reasons for breaking up that people tweeted about, and

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Speaker 1: the holidays weren't sided. It's not that people say Christmas

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Speaker 1: is here, get out, but it was more that the

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Speaker 1: holidays are probably bringing relationships stew pots to a feverish boil. Right.

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Speaker 1: Byron said, you know, this is a time for end

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Speaker 1: of the year reflections, and maybe as you're packing your

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Speaker 1: overnight bag to spend a couple of hours with your family,

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Speaker 1: you start thinking about does this person fit in with

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Speaker 1: my family? Would they like him or her. Maybe you

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Speaker 1: just start to feel that that kind of seasonal effective

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Speaker 1: disorder kind of settling into your bones, and you're just

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Speaker 1: you just want to hold up by yourself, and you

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Speaker 1: just don't want to date anyone anymore. You might not. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And one thing that comes up a lot too when

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Speaker 1: psychologists talk about why the holidays are particularly stressful for

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Speaker 1: for relationships is this idealized image that we have of

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Speaker 1: the perfect holiday romance. This is a time when we

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Speaker 1: was supposed to fall in love onto snow flakes, right

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Speaker 1: and the soft light of a menorah. We're supposed to

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Speaker 1: be running down the street and our tennis shoes and

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Speaker 1: underwear as Colin Firth opens his big fluffy coat to

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Speaker 1: catch us. Yeah, that's what's supposed to happen Bridget Jones's

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Speaker 1: diary right for for the uninitiated, um, But there was

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Speaker 1: a two thousand twelve study actually published in the Journal

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Speaker 1: of Consumer Research which found that in this cold weather

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Speaker 1: that we are in right now, or at least for

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Speaker 1: those of us in cold climates Australian and New Zealand listeners,

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Speaker 1: you're like, what what are you talking about? But in

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Speaker 1: cold weather people are more likely to watch romantic movies

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Speaker 1: and read romance novels. Yeah. Um. And Andrea Bonnier, who

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Speaker 1: is a licensed clinical psychologist who was commenting on this

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Speaker 1: study to Northwestern, talked about how feeling cold often makes

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Speaker 1: us want to affiliate. It's very much a brain body

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Speaker 1: connection at work. Yeah, we want to snuggle. Yeah, we

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Speaker 1: want to snuggle up with some baddy. I know my

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Speaker 1: soup consumption and my fun consumption in particular has gone up. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Oh my god. Fuh every day if I killed the

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Speaker 1: sodium level, I have to worry about that little. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I wear a lot more fluffy socks. People want to cuddle.

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Speaker 1: I bought myself moccasin slippers just to get through it,

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Speaker 1: just to eat my soup in well, not while where

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Speaker 1: while I'm eating my soup, and to eat my soup

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Speaker 1: out of right. That is some That is some fluffy,

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Speaker 1: fluffy soup. Um. But so we've got all these things.

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Speaker 1: We're watching romantic movies, we want to cuddle up with somebody.

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Speaker 1: We're expecting this idealized version of the holidays. But meanwhile,

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Speaker 1: the real world is a little different. We have all

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Speaker 1: of these land mines we have to get around, things

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Speaker 1: like gift giving, how much do you spend? What if

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Speaker 1: you buy a nice gift in your partner buy something

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Speaker 1: really crutty? The family visits the first time meetings and

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Speaker 1: and will your family judge the person. You also have

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Speaker 1: to worry about going to holiday parties. Do you bring

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Speaker 1: the person? Will you have to explain who this person is?

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Speaker 1: Will you have to be forced to define your relationship

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Speaker 1: in front of coworkers. Yeah, it's challenging if you are

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Speaker 1: relatively new to relationship, because it's the time when things

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Speaker 1: get real, where all of a sudden, you have these

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Speaker 1: ably aatians and you need to decide whether or not

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Speaker 1: you're going to do it as an individual or as

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Speaker 1: a couple. So that can be challenging to get through.

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Speaker 1: But also if you've been in a relationship for a while,

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Speaker 1: the expectations are still high because of things like this

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Speaker 1: being the number one season four engagements and all of

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Speaker 1: those family pressures. Maybe going home with a boyfriend girlfriend

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Speaker 1: and getting questions from family about when you're gonna get married,

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Speaker 1: or if you're married, when are you gonna have a baby,

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Speaker 1: all of these things. Yeah, I know Thanksgiving, my boyfriend

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Speaker 1: spend it with his family and I was with my family,

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Speaker 1: and uh, one of my mother's friends, who I don't

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Speaker 1: even know very well, was at Thanksgiving and she was

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Speaker 1: asking when I was going to get married so that

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Speaker 1: they could all throw us a big party. And I

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Speaker 1: just gave her this like wide eyed, just kind of

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Speaker 1: dead eyed stare and and kind of laugh nervous land

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Speaker 1: walked away, refilled your wine glass. I'm like, let me

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Speaker 1: get another thing, a turkey and some more wine. Holidays

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Speaker 1: can be stressful. Holidays can be stressful. Um and all

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Speaker 1: of those real world stressors are often in direct contrast

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Speaker 1: to what we are seeing in these holiday movies that

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Speaker 1: we love so much during this cold weather, because there

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Speaker 1: are just so many unrealistic expectations that are established that

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Speaker 1: comes up again and again and again in these conversations

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Speaker 1: about holiday stress, whether it's the expectations of an amazing

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Speaker 1: gift or the perfect gift, the perfect holiday happiness, the

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Speaker 1: true love e dubbiness that you should all be experiencing.

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Speaker 1: And talking to ABC News about this, Dr Dorry Lynn,

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Speaker 1: who is a psychologist, says that the holidays evoke incredibly

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Speaker 1: high stress and oppression, and the reason that this happens

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Speaker 1: is that we have the media myth that this is

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Speaker 1: supposed to be a happy, wonderful and joyous time. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and echoing NTT. Pepper, Schwartz, who's a sociologist, told NBC

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Speaker 1: News that when people start to internalize all of these

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Speaker 1: ideal images of romance and family, they can begin to

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Speaker 1: wonder if their own real life relationships match up. You know,

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Speaker 1: problems in your own life that you might not have

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Speaker 1: even thought about too much, all of a sudden when

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Speaker 1: it's the holidays, you think, oh, but I feel so

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Speaker 1: alone exactly, And the issue of the family holiday visits

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Speaker 1: no offense if any of my family members are listening,

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Speaker 1: I love you all dearly. But having to interact with

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Speaker 1: the family can refocus things in not always the most

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Speaker 1: positive way, because, yeah, you have incidents like maybe some

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Speaker 1: well meaning grandmothers or whomever asking for timelines about your

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Speaker 1: romantic future, or just having to deal with seeing maybe

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Speaker 1: not so pleasant dynamics between family members and seeing also

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Speaker 1: how significant others interact with their family. LA is that

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Speaker 1: shines a new light on that part of him as well? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean those could be positive things. I mean going

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Speaker 1: you know, if you go to your boyfriend's house for

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Speaker 1: Christmas and you see how wonderfully he fits in with everyone,

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Speaker 1: and you just get all these warm, fuzzy feelings like

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Speaker 1: it's it's good to see someone in a new positive light.

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Speaker 1: I mean, yes, that can go horribly awry if the

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Speaker 1: grandmother then turns to you and says like, you know,

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Speaker 1: when are you going to have babies? And what are

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Speaker 1: you gonna lose twenty pounds? Because you know old people, Grandma,

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Speaker 1: Grandma's getting a lot of flak in this episode. Also,

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Speaker 1: it's not just to enter family dynamics that can clash,

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Speaker 1: but for couples to who might come from different regions, countries, cultures,

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Speaker 1: those holiday traditions can clash as well. Yeah, especially like

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Speaker 1: if if you know, one family celebrates Christmas and the

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Speaker 1: other doesn't, or one makes a huge deal out of

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Speaker 1: it and the other doesn't. You know, like what if

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Speaker 1: what if you do attacking sweater party with your family

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Speaker 1: every year and your boyfriend's family thinks that's ridiculous? Like

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Speaker 1: there can sounds like your boyfriend's family needs to lighten

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Speaker 1: up a little bit. I'll say that I would just

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Speaker 1: like to point out that I'm not speaking directly about

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Speaker 1: my boyfriend's family, um, but speaking to NBC News about this.

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Speaker 1: U c l A psychology professor Andrew Christensen, who studies

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Speaker 1: intimate relationships, said that quote family is a likely culprit

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Speaker 1: in holiday breakups. I totally get this one, you know,

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Speaker 1: because our family's views of our partners can definitely have

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Speaker 1: a major impact. I mean, I know, I know from

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Speaker 1: virtual experience, and this doesn't have much to do with

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Speaker 1: the holidays. But like in years past, if I would

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Speaker 1: tell my mother about somebody I was dating and I

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Speaker 1: would get a certain facial expression. She would never even

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Speaker 1: meet the person, but I would be like, yeah, it

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Speaker 1: puts a little a castle little doubt in your brain.

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Speaker 1: And I, on the flip side of that, have experienced

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Speaker 1: past boyfriend not interacting very kindly with his mother, which

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Speaker 1: to me was a major red flag that that kind

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Speaker 1: of behavior would probably trickle down to me at some point. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, So I guess if if you're worried about

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Speaker 1: the future of your relationship, people maybe put off taking

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Speaker 1: your partner home for the holiday. But here's the thing, though,

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Speaker 1: for everyone who is not in a relationship, who is listening, Listen,

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Speaker 1: I've been through the holidays single, Caroline, You've been through

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Speaker 1: the holidays single, and it can get weird even if

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Speaker 1: you are not nute attached, because you can still get

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Speaker 1: the same kind of pressure to get married and have

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Speaker 1: babies and lose weight or whatever it might be, no

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Speaker 1: matter what your relationship status is. Yeah, and and a

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Speaker 1: lot of women in China are not standing for that

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Speaker 1: family pressure anymore. There is this issue that Time reported

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Speaker 1: on where Chinese quote unquote left over women are renting

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Speaker 1: boyfriends for between eighty two and dollars per day so

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Speaker 1: their family is won't worry. Yeah, I mean it's like

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Speaker 1: that right there. I think there is a rom com

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Speaker 1: about that, most likely called The Wedding Date, Yeah, starring

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Speaker 1: Grace from Ruling Grace Really Yeah, where she well she

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Speaker 1: rents a wedding date. Huh Okay, well of course they

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Speaker 1: fall in love. Spoiler they have to. I don't have

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Speaker 1: to see the whole movie to tell you that. Good figure. Um.

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Speaker 1: But then, I mean, then you have the sticky, messy, awful,

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Speaker 1: possibly dangerous issue of running into an x Oh. Yeah. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: If you come from a smaller town like I do,

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Speaker 1: inevitably when everyone comes home for the holidays, you're probably

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Speaker 1: gonna see somebody, and especially because it's the holidays, you're

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Speaker 1: probably gonna see someone when maybe you've had a spiked

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Speaker 1: cider or two, and it can rekindle those old nostalgic

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Speaker 1: feelings because the Hollies are also a very nostalgic time.

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Speaker 1: Kind of the same way when it's cold, we gravitate

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Speaker 1: towards romantic, snuggly, fun types of things. We might also

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Speaker 1: gravitate towards the familiar, a familiar face who has made

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Speaker 1: us feel warm and snuggling in the past. Right, But

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Speaker 1: I mean warning, you know, just if you're gonna take

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Speaker 1: that leap with an X, you know, be sure that

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Speaker 1: you're both on the same page. I mean, there's always

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Speaker 1: the danger that one of you will feel a little

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Speaker 1: bit better about the experience than the other and want

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Speaker 1: to take it farther or get back together something, and

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Speaker 1: the other won't. And also public service announcement. Sexually transmitted

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Speaker 1: diseases also spike during the holidays, probably in large part

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Speaker 1: because of the higher rates of consumption of alcohol and

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Speaker 1: holiday hookups, probably fueled by said alcohol. So, folks, we're

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Speaker 1: not against the holiday hook up, but just be safe

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Speaker 1: because it is also the season for an STD. I've

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Speaker 1: never seen that on a Christmas card there. Well, people

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Speaker 1: should put them on Christmas cards and maybe the rates

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Speaker 1: would go down. Put a condom in every Christmas card? Perfect? Okay, Well,

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Speaker 1: so you know we've just told you about what a

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Speaker 1: mind field the holidays can be. You've got to worry

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Speaker 1: about running into an X, You've got to worry about

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Speaker 1: getting dumped or breaking up with your significant other, you

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Speaker 1: have to worry about family pressure and about all sorts

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Speaker 1: of things. Or you don't have to worry at all, Caroline,

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Speaker 1: Because maybe if we can maintain mindfulness that a lot

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Speaker 1: of the stress that goes into the holidays might be

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Speaker 1: fueled by these unrealistic expectations peddled by terrible movies and

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Speaker 1: holiday greeting card commercials. Yeah, that could help. Some of

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Speaker 1: those commercials do make my little grench heart grow three sizes.

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Speaker 1: It's true. Yeah, I get, I get goose bumps. It's

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Speaker 1: it's true. But seriously, though, maintaining realistic expectations, I think,

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Speaker 1: especially for people in relationships, is a key to getting

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Speaker 1: through this possibly stressful time. If there's a specific gift

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Speaker 1: that you want, just tell your significant other. If there

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Speaker 1: is a specific way that you feel the holidays should go,

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Speaker 1: tell your significant other and if there's a problem, you'll

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Speaker 1: work it out. Really, the key is communication, You'll work

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Speaker 1: it out. You should be a life coach with that.

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Speaker 1: And I got your tagline, you'll work it out. Do

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Speaker 1: you think that could fit on a vanity license plate?

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Speaker 1: I'm sure. Just take the vowels out, it's fine. Um.

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Speaker 1: And don't forget you know, when you're visiting your family,

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Speaker 1: try to steer clear of controversial controversial topics like politics, religion,

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Speaker 1: all of that stuff, and stay gracious. And if grandma

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Speaker 1: starts to press about why you're not married, or why

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Speaker 1: you're single, or why you're dating a bartender, just look

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Speaker 1: at her and say, why do you ask? Mm hmm,

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00:21:58,760 --> 00:22:02,200
Speaker 1: good deflective question. I do find that my blank stare

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Speaker 1: is very off putting. My eyes just get real big

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Speaker 1: and I just go dead behind them. Um, And people

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Speaker 1: do tend to drop it. I find it works at

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Speaker 1: work or at home with the family. It sounds like

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Speaker 1: you should be a life coach too. My my promotional

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Speaker 1: materials would be horrifying. Um. But also if you are

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Speaker 1: single during this season, or if you are recently single too,

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Speaker 1: take heart because statistically, thanks to the Turkey drop, there

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Speaker 1: are more single people this year, at this time of year. Um,

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Speaker 1: and I know that's probably the least comforting thing that

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Speaker 1: you can hear through your earbuds right now. Um, but

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Speaker 1: it is true. I mean there there are a lot

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Speaker 1: of single people, and personally speaking, though, I can tell

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Speaker 1: you that having been through a number of holiday seasons solo,

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Speaker 1: it's best to just just bulldoz through it because it's

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Speaker 1: a time off of war. You eat some food, you

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Speaker 1: drink some drinks, probably at a holiday party, try to

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Speaker 1: have a good time and block out all of those

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Speaker 1: love actually esque messages about how everyone should be falling

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Speaker 1: in love. Yeah, yeah, I just hate love actually. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: It's it's probably and I get so much flak for it,

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Speaker 1: Like nobody, somebody, somebody out there somewhere, please please hop

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Speaker 1: on board with me here Carolyn. Side note, there was

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Speaker 1: recently an article in the Atlantic that has been going

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Speaker 1: by thought yeah about how Love Actually is the least

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Speaker 1: romantic movie. Yeah, and I wouldn't even argue for or

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Speaker 1: against that, uh, that statement that stands. I would just

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Speaker 1: say that it's a terribly made movie. What's the holiday

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Speaker 1: movie that you do? Like? Home Alone? Oh that's a

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Speaker 1: good one, number one. See and that's great because it's

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Speaker 1: not all about a fallen in love and and it

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Speaker 1: does have some heartwarming hearts of it. Uh, they're warning

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Speaker 1: there is a Rangela in the movie. If you haven't

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Speaker 1: seen it, I don't know why you wouldn't have seen it,

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Speaker 1: but I saw it's more of a Thanksgiving movie. But

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Speaker 1: I saw planes, trains, and automobiles for the first time

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Speaker 1: a couple of weeks ago, and it was a delight.

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Speaker 1: It is a delight, although me, being the neurotic traveler

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Speaker 1: that I am, it stressed to be out so much.

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Speaker 1: Although it is a lovely, lovely romance between Steve Martin

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Speaker 1: and John Candy. Yeah, a lovely, like non romantic kind

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Speaker 1: of friend romantic film. Um so there. Yeah, I think

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Speaker 1: there are definitely ways to get through the holiday stress

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Speaker 1: by treating ourselves right, trying to eat as well as

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Speaker 1: we can, get some extra exercise if possible, get in

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Speaker 1: the sun if it all possible, and just trying to

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Speaker 1: relax as much as possible, because it's just another holiday

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Speaker 1: season and it doesn't have to be perfect. Yeah, let

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Speaker 1: yourself have a piece of pie, don't stress, just enjoy it. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and by one piece of pie, I'm saying all of

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Speaker 1: the pie, eat all of the pie. Is a new year,

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Speaker 1: that's right. So now though we want to hear from you,

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Speaker 1: do you have tactics management tips for making the holidays

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Speaker 1: go smoothly? Especially for people out there who are not

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Speaker 1: only dealing maybe with just single doom or being in

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Speaker 1: a relationship with one person, but also having kids. How

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Speaker 1: do you make all of those things work together at

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Speaker 1: the same time and not lose your mind? Let us

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Speaker 1: know mom Stuff at Discovery dot com. And by the way,

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Speaker 1: happy holidays to everybody. Happy. We hope that it's going

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Speaker 1: well so far. We're almost through it, um, but let's

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Speaker 1: take this moment to all commiserate and in the fact

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Speaker 1: that it's not exactly the most wonderful time of the year.

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Speaker 1: So email us. You can tweet us at mom Stuff podcast,

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Speaker 1: and you can find us on Facebook as well. Messages there,

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Speaker 1: and we had a couple of messages to share with

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Speaker 1: you when we come right back from a quick break

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Speaker 1: and now back to our letters. Well, Caroline, I have

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Speaker 1: some not so great news from Lisa in regard to

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Speaker 1: our episode that we did on Faction a while ago,

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00:26:26,720 --> 00:26:30,040
Speaker 1: because subject line she said, your fashion episode made me

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Speaker 1: feel fuggly sad face, and it gave me a sad face,

427
00:26:34,640 --> 00:26:37,359
Speaker 1: she writes, because I typically love you too. Let me

428
00:26:37,400 --> 00:26:39,639
Speaker 1: start with what you got right. Thank you for acknowledging

429
00:26:39,640 --> 00:26:42,520
Speaker 1: how many American women are plus size. You also totally

430
00:26:42,600 --> 00:26:45,800
Speaker 1: understood the perils of both swimsuits and online shopping. Very thoughtful,

431
00:26:46,000 --> 00:26:48,840
Speaker 1: and thank you for calling out retailers to carry more clothes.

432
00:26:49,200 --> 00:26:51,720
Speaker 1: But here's where I have a problem. As a plus

433
00:26:51,720 --> 00:26:53,880
Speaker 1: size women. I do not give you permission to call

434
00:26:53,960 --> 00:26:56,560
Speaker 1: me fat. I know the blogs were owning it, and

435
00:26:56,640 --> 00:26:58,960
Speaker 1: that the blogs were your subject, but fat is a

436
00:26:59,000 --> 00:27:01,840
Speaker 1: word of terror, and you can't throw it around casually.

437
00:27:02,160 --> 00:27:05,080
Speaker 1: Just like other social or ethnic monikers. It is one

438
00:27:05,119 --> 00:27:07,280
Speaker 1: thing for the possessor to say it, in another four

439
00:27:07,359 --> 00:27:10,199
Speaker 1: an outsider to say it. That is a word that

440
00:27:10,240 --> 00:27:12,639
Speaker 1: taunted me, tortured me from age six, even when I

441
00:27:12,680 --> 00:27:15,320
Speaker 1: was still a skinny tomboy. Fat kept me from trying

442
00:27:15,359 --> 00:27:17,960
Speaker 1: too many new things or dating until college. I got

443
00:27:17,960 --> 00:27:20,359
Speaker 1: a prestigious scholarship to a good university and later got

444
00:27:20,400 --> 00:27:22,879
Speaker 1: accepted to a very very good grad school. In both places,

445
00:27:22,880 --> 00:27:24,760
Speaker 1: I spent much of my time worrying if I was

446
00:27:24,800 --> 00:27:27,320
Speaker 1: too fat for people like me I had an even

447
00:27:27,320 --> 00:27:29,280
Speaker 1: disorder by the time I was seventeen, but I felt

448
00:27:29,320 --> 00:27:31,520
Speaker 1: I was too fat to admit until I was twenty five.

449
00:27:31,840 --> 00:27:34,399
Speaker 1: I've sobbed over close that didn't fit and walked around

450
00:27:34,400 --> 00:27:36,480
Speaker 1: with pneumonia for three months because I didn't want any

451
00:27:36,520 --> 00:27:39,000
Speaker 1: more weight lectures from the student health doctor who barely

452
00:27:39,040 --> 00:27:41,000
Speaker 1: knew me. And even now in my thirties, I can

453
00:27:41,040 --> 00:27:45,360
Speaker 1: still hear every fat criticism ever overheard, and every playground insult.

454
00:27:45,720 --> 00:27:48,840
Speaker 1: I found the fat insensitivity especially disappointing because it came

455
00:27:48,880 --> 00:27:51,280
Speaker 1: so closely after your Halloween costume episode, in which you

456
00:27:51,320 --> 00:27:54,120
Speaker 1: could not have been more culturally sensitive. I don't think

457
00:27:54,160 --> 00:27:55,959
Speaker 1: you meant to be hurtful this time around, but I

458
00:27:56,000 --> 00:28:01,440
Speaker 1: was hurt and I just want to emphasize that. Lee said, absolutely,

459
00:28:01,480 --> 00:28:06,880
Speaker 1: we were not meaning to be hurtful, and and we were.

460
00:28:06,960 --> 00:28:11,680
Speaker 1: We were using the language that was out there by

461
00:28:11,840 --> 00:28:16,520
Speaker 1: the bloggers, and we weren't calling you fat. We were

462
00:28:16,520 --> 00:28:21,200
Speaker 1: trying to celebrate these bodies and this fashion, and it's

463
00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:26,600
Speaker 1: a type of reclamation that has been going on. We

464
00:28:27,040 --> 00:28:29,959
Speaker 1: as podcasters who do a lot of research into the

465
00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:32,320
Speaker 1: topics that we try to present in a very sensitive way.

466
00:28:32,560 --> 00:28:36,080
Speaker 1: We want to present you with the language that these

467
00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:40,200
Speaker 1: various social movements use, and so we, by no means

468
00:28:40,360 --> 00:28:44,280
Speaker 1: are attempting to ourselves co opt any language that could

469
00:28:44,280 --> 00:28:47,920
Speaker 1: be perceived as hurtful, and we certainly would never intentionally

470
00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:52,440
Speaker 1: say anything hurtful to or about our listeners. Yeah, I mean,

471
00:28:52,600 --> 00:28:55,240
Speaker 1: and when it comes to descriptors of female bodies, whether

472
00:28:55,280 --> 00:28:59,200
Speaker 1: it's fat or it's skinny, they can both be wielded

473
00:28:59,440 --> 00:29:03,560
Speaker 1: as insults. And I'm not saying that I do not

474
00:29:03,760 --> 00:29:07,200
Speaker 1: hear your concerns loud and clear, but I just want

475
00:29:07,240 --> 00:29:10,680
Speaker 1: to emphasize for other listeners who may have felt like

476
00:29:10,720 --> 00:29:15,280
Speaker 1: we were being insensitive as well, that we were sincerely

477
00:29:16,360 --> 00:29:23,160
Speaker 1: celebrating this movement and this call for greater representation for

478
00:29:23,480 --> 00:29:27,959
Speaker 1: women of all sizes. Absolutely so thank you for writing in,

479
00:29:27,960 --> 00:29:31,880
Speaker 1: though Lisa Okay, Well, I have a letter here from Gloria.

480
00:29:32,320 --> 00:29:35,360
Speaker 1: She is writing in in response to our Women in

481
00:29:35,560 --> 00:29:40,000
Speaker 1: Stems series UM. She says, after listening to your recent

482
00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:41,920
Speaker 1: series on women in stem I wanted to share my

483
00:29:41,960 --> 00:29:47,640
Speaker 1: own experience as someone who left science for PR. Growing up,

484
00:29:47,680 --> 00:29:49,880
Speaker 1: I was expected to do well in science and math

485
00:29:49,920 --> 00:29:52,640
Speaker 1: at home and in school. Because I'm Asian, it wasn't

486
00:29:52,680 --> 00:29:55,120
Speaker 1: that I did better in those subjects than English or history.

487
00:29:55,400 --> 00:29:57,880
Speaker 1: Was an honor in AP classes for all subjects throughout

488
00:29:57,920 --> 00:29:59,720
Speaker 1: high school and had pretty much the same spot on

489
00:29:59,760 --> 00:30:03,160
Speaker 1: the s SATs for both. But because I displayed aptitude

490
00:30:03,160 --> 00:30:05,680
Speaker 1: for science, I was pushed toward a career in anything

491
00:30:05,720 --> 00:30:09,400
Speaker 1: medicine related. As a result, I started college majoring first

492
00:30:09,440 --> 00:30:15,360
Speaker 1: in biochemistry, but eventually switched to microbiology, immunology, and molecular genetics.

493
00:30:15,400 --> 00:30:18,280
Speaker 1: But please note, my family is really not that stereotypical.

494
00:30:18,360 --> 00:30:20,880
Speaker 1: My mom boast about not caring whether my second older

495
00:30:20,880 --> 00:30:23,680
Speaker 1: sister took AP calculus or culinary arts in high school.

496
00:30:24,040 --> 00:30:27,080
Speaker 1: My third sister was encouraged to pursue music, and if

497
00:30:27,120 --> 00:30:29,760
Speaker 1: she didn't have time to practice because she had math homework,

498
00:30:29,800 --> 00:30:32,120
Speaker 1: my fourth sister would be given a calculator and told

499
00:30:32,120 --> 00:30:34,880
Speaker 1: to complete it. But again, because all Asians are good

500
00:30:34,880 --> 00:30:37,200
Speaker 1: at math, and so were my sisters, I was expected

501
00:30:37,240 --> 00:30:39,880
Speaker 1: to be good as well, and since I'm good at math,

502
00:30:39,920 --> 00:30:43,800
Speaker 1: I'm automatically good at science. Anyhow, while I was in college,

503
00:30:43,800 --> 00:30:46,000
Speaker 1: I realized that I really didn't enjoy science and did

504
00:30:46,000 --> 00:30:48,480
Speaker 1: not want to go into medicine at all. I loved

505
00:30:48,520 --> 00:30:51,040
Speaker 1: all of my classes except by science classes, but my

506
00:30:51,080 --> 00:30:53,600
Speaker 1: family encouraged me to stay in science because it offers

507
00:30:53,600 --> 00:30:56,440
Speaker 1: more job stability once I graduate, which was half true

508
00:30:56,720 --> 00:31:00,240
Speaker 1: once the recession hit. After getting my bachelor's in thoughcience,

509
00:31:00,320 --> 00:31:02,560
Speaker 1: I went on to work in a diagnostic lab as

510
00:31:02,600 --> 00:31:04,600
Speaker 1: a tech. While I was good at my job and

511
00:31:04,640 --> 00:31:07,240
Speaker 1: the fact that I wasn't facing layoffs like most people

512
00:31:07,280 --> 00:31:09,360
Speaker 1: in two thousand and eight, I still hated it. I

513
00:31:09,440 --> 00:31:11,760
Speaker 1: was vastly different from people at work and just didn't

514
00:31:11,800 --> 00:31:14,080
Speaker 1: have the personality for any job in science. To have

515
00:31:14,160 --> 00:31:17,800
Speaker 1: something enjoyable to do, I started beauty blogging. I realized

516
00:31:17,840 --> 00:31:20,120
Speaker 1: from there that I loved interacting with people, and after

517
00:31:20,160 --> 00:31:22,560
Speaker 1: a few years, decided to quit my job, move across

518
00:31:22,560 --> 00:31:25,120
Speaker 1: the country and pursue a new career and beauty pr

519
00:31:25,800 --> 00:31:28,400
Speaker 1: I now absolutely love my job. I love working with

520
00:31:28,440 --> 00:31:31,240
Speaker 1: the media, flexing my creative muscles, and being around like

521
00:31:31,320 --> 00:31:34,760
Speaker 1: minded people. Surprisingly, my science training kicks in quite often

522
00:31:34,800 --> 00:31:37,080
Speaker 1: since beauty is rooted in science. Just the other week,

523
00:31:37,120 --> 00:31:40,560
Speaker 1: I was looking at published scientific articles on circadian rhythm

524
00:31:40,600 --> 00:31:45,200
Speaker 1: in order to craft a pitch about skincare. So thank

525
00:31:45,200 --> 00:31:48,520
Speaker 1: you for sharing your science and not science and sort

526
00:31:48,560 --> 00:31:51,680
Speaker 1: of science story with the Scholia and thanks to everybody

527
00:31:51,680 --> 00:31:54,080
Speaker 1: who's written in. Mom Stuff at Discovery dot com is

528
00:31:54,080 --> 00:31:56,240
Speaker 1: where you can send us your letters. You can also

529
00:31:56,280 --> 00:31:58,760
Speaker 1: tweet us at mom Stuff Podcast, and you can follow

530
00:31:58,880 --> 00:32:02,320
Speaker 1: us on Humbler stuff I'm Never Told You dot tumbler

531
00:32:02,360 --> 00:32:05,080
Speaker 1: dot com. Oh yeah, and we're on Facebook. You can

532
00:32:05,120 --> 00:32:07,239
Speaker 1: message us there like us. While you're at it. You

533
00:32:07,240 --> 00:32:10,760
Speaker 1: can also like our pictures on Instagram at stuff mom

534
00:32:10,840 --> 00:32:14,280
Speaker 1: Never Told You, and you can also like our videos

535
00:32:14,400 --> 00:32:18,320
Speaker 1: on the YouTube's It's YouTube dot com slash stuff mom

536
00:32:18,400 --> 00:32:22,000
Speaker 1: Never Told You and don't forget to subscribe, and happy

537
00:32:22,040 --> 00:32:37,480
Speaker 1: holidays everybody,