1 00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:03,160 Speaker 1: One quick note before we dive in today. We had 2 00:00:03,200 --> 00:00:07,320 Speaker 1: a few gremlins in the proverbial machine during this recording. 3 00:00:07,680 --> 00:00:10,440 Speaker 1: As a result, you may notice a little bit of 4 00:00:10,560 --> 00:00:15,960 Speaker 1: strangeness with the microphones in this episode, especially my own. However, 5 00:00:16,160 --> 00:00:19,800 Speaker 1: we managed to keep those audio shenanigans to a minimum. 6 00:00:19,840 --> 00:00:24,000 Speaker 1: We hope you enjoy the show. From UFOs to psychic 7 00:00:24,040 --> 00:00:28,639 Speaker 1: powers and government conspiracies, history is riddled with unexplained events. 8 00:00:29,080 --> 00:00:32,199 Speaker 1: You can turn back now or learn the stuff they 9 00:00:32,240 --> 00:00:46,800 Speaker 1: don't want you to know. A production of I Heart Radio. Hello, 10 00:00:46,880 --> 00:00:49,400 Speaker 1: welcome back to the show. My name is Matt, my 11 00:00:49,479 --> 00:00:52,000 Speaker 1: name is all they called me Ben. We are joined 12 00:00:52,040 --> 00:00:55,760 Speaker 1: as always with our super producer Paul Mission controlled decades. 13 00:00:56,120 --> 00:00:59,440 Speaker 1: Most importantly, you are you, You are here, and that 14 00:00:59,600 --> 00:01:04,240 Speaker 1: makes this stuff they don't want you to know. We're 15 00:01:04,280 --> 00:01:08,280 Speaker 1: diving deep today in what will come to be the 16 00:01:08,280 --> 00:01:12,720 Speaker 1: first terrible pun of this episode into a story that 17 00:01:13,640 --> 00:01:18,000 Speaker 1: some people may remember right as one of those many 18 00:01:18,040 --> 00:01:23,240 Speaker 1: ephemeral headlines that circulated in two thousand and two thousand 19 00:01:23,280 --> 00:01:28,920 Speaker 1: and one. But this was brought to our attention by 20 00:01:29,000 --> 00:01:32,560 Speaker 1: by one of our fellow listeners, a fellow conspiracy realists 21 00:01:32,880 --> 00:01:36,920 Speaker 1: who for the sake of comic book nursery, we will 22 00:01:36,959 --> 00:01:42,120 Speaker 1: refer to as Ney Moor. Hey, guys, So I just 23 00:01:42,160 --> 00:01:46,000 Speaker 1: got out of the Navy working on submarines, and as such, 24 00:01:46,160 --> 00:01:49,840 Speaker 1: I've got a couple of submarine conspiracies that you may 25 00:01:49,920 --> 00:01:52,760 Speaker 1: or may not know about. So the first one is 26 00:01:53,080 --> 00:01:57,400 Speaker 1: the Curse, which that made international news and two thousands, 27 00:01:57,440 --> 00:02:01,080 Speaker 1: I think it was two thousands, the Russian submarine that 28 00:02:01,200 --> 00:02:07,240 Speaker 1: was spying on United States and and and NATO submarines 29 00:02:07,520 --> 00:02:10,280 Speaker 1: and warships doing doing a bunch of a bunch of 30 00:02:10,320 --> 00:02:13,960 Speaker 1: exercises and it blew up. The official stories that a 31 00:02:14,000 --> 00:02:18,000 Speaker 1: torpedo blew up. But I know people who have been 32 00:02:18,480 --> 00:02:22,120 Speaker 1: who are on the boat one of the submarines, and 33 00:02:22,120 --> 00:02:25,000 Speaker 1: they were listening to the Curse, and I know one 34 00:02:25,040 --> 00:02:28,960 Speaker 1: of them has told me it definitely got shot by 35 00:02:29,040 --> 00:02:32,959 Speaker 1: another boat. One said it definitely did not, and and 36 00:02:33,040 --> 00:02:35,920 Speaker 1: some of the others have have refused to talk about it. 37 00:02:36,440 --> 00:02:38,840 Speaker 1: So so who knows what's going on there? That one's 38 00:02:38,880 --> 00:02:45,519 Speaker 1: definitely worth looking into. Nay more, this is a fantastic question, 39 00:02:45,800 --> 00:02:49,399 Speaker 1: and you've actually you've given us a lot to chew 40 00:02:49,440 --> 00:02:53,000 Speaker 1: on here, such that we talked off air, and this 41 00:02:53,080 --> 00:02:59,680 Speaker 1: may be the first of multiple submarine related conspiracies, because 42 00:03:00,160 --> 00:03:04,079 Speaker 1: let's talk about submarines. The weirdest thing about a submarine 43 00:03:04,639 --> 00:03:09,520 Speaker 1: is that they are inherently conspiratorial. There are these mysterious, 44 00:03:09,600 --> 00:03:13,840 Speaker 1: at times nuclear powered craft that are as we record 45 00:03:14,320 --> 00:03:18,840 Speaker 1: sneaking through the ocean depths across the planet. You know, 46 00:03:19,080 --> 00:03:24,920 Speaker 1: a submarine is explicitly designed to deceive, to include its presence, 47 00:03:25,360 --> 00:03:29,480 Speaker 1: The location, and the capabilities of a submarine are often 48 00:03:29,560 --> 00:03:32,600 Speaker 1: the stuff its owners don't want you to know. And 49 00:03:32,639 --> 00:03:36,280 Speaker 1: so it's no surprise that submarines are themselves the subject 50 00:03:36,280 --> 00:03:42,040 Speaker 1: of numerous conspiracies. So today we're diving into the mystery 51 00:03:42,080 --> 00:03:46,560 Speaker 1: of one submarine in particular. As you requested, nay more, 52 00:03:47,320 --> 00:03:52,200 Speaker 1: what happened to the curse? Here are the facts. So 53 00:03:52,400 --> 00:03:57,560 Speaker 1: work on the K one curse began in ninet um 54 00:03:57,680 --> 00:04:02,760 Speaker 1: and the sub officially launched in and it was massive. 55 00:04:03,160 --> 00:04:05,920 Speaker 1: It was a massive deal, but it was also physically massive. 56 00:04:06,080 --> 00:04:10,680 Speaker 1: At five eight feet nineteen thousand, four hundred tons um, 57 00:04:10,760 --> 00:04:14,200 Speaker 1: it was capable of launching missiles the size of a 58 00:04:14,320 --> 00:04:20,039 Speaker 1: small aircraft that would absolutely decimate any targets that were 59 00:04:20,160 --> 00:04:24,120 Speaker 1: unfortunate enough to be in its path, and that could 60 00:04:24,200 --> 00:04:27,919 Speaker 1: be up to four hundred miles away. NATO actually called 61 00:04:28,120 --> 00:04:31,880 Speaker 1: it an Oscar to class, which is a nuclear powered 62 00:04:31,920 --> 00:04:35,880 Speaker 1: cruise missile submarine owned and operated by the Russian Navy, 63 00:04:35,920 --> 00:04:38,680 Speaker 1: and until two thousand seven conversion of the U. S. 64 00:04:38,760 --> 00:04:42,760 Speaker 1: Navy's Ohio class subs from ballistic missiles to these types 65 00:04:42,800 --> 00:04:46,320 Speaker 1: of more long range cruise missiles um the Oscar two 66 00:04:46,360 --> 00:04:49,599 Speaker 1: class submarines were the largest of their type in the world. 67 00:04:50,040 --> 00:04:53,159 Speaker 1: In this particular Oscar two class submarine, the Curse was 68 00:04:53,240 --> 00:04:57,240 Speaker 1: a big deal. It and others in this class were 69 00:04:57,279 --> 00:05:02,080 Speaker 1: explicitly designed to defeat the biggest threats that we're seeing 70 00:05:02,120 --> 00:05:07,040 Speaker 1: in the U. S. Navy's command, the US Aircraft Carrier Group, 71 00:05:07,120 --> 00:05:10,279 Speaker 1: So the machines that are out there floating that function 72 00:05:10,480 --> 00:05:15,120 Speaker 1: as a full military command base and airport. Yeah, it's 73 00:05:15,160 --> 00:05:18,839 Speaker 1: important to remember that until about two thousand and seven, 74 00:05:19,200 --> 00:05:23,640 Speaker 1: the Oscar two class was the largest type a submarine 75 00:05:23,640 --> 00:05:26,839 Speaker 1: of its type in the entire world. The only reason 76 00:05:26,920 --> 00:05:31,840 Speaker 1: that changed is because the Ohio Some Ohio class subs 77 00:05:31,839 --> 00:05:36,760 Speaker 1: that originally launched ballistic missiles were converted to also launched 78 00:05:36,839 --> 00:05:41,040 Speaker 1: cruise missiles. The Curse had the power in theory to 79 00:05:41,200 --> 00:05:45,000 Speaker 1: sink an aircraft carrier with a single torpedo that was 80 00:05:45,040 --> 00:05:49,520 Speaker 1: specifically something called a Type sixty five. These torpedoes carried 81 00:05:49,839 --> 00:05:53,719 Speaker 1: a nine hundred and nine pound warhead. This is this 82 00:05:53,760 --> 00:05:56,920 Speaker 1: is serious stuff. And you know, to be very clear 83 00:05:58,040 --> 00:06:01,080 Speaker 1: when we say aircraft carrier in this sense, we mean 84 00:06:01,120 --> 00:06:04,960 Speaker 1: exactly what Matt is talking about here, the the ship 85 00:06:05,200 --> 00:06:08,719 Speaker 1: that is the the carrier where you see the jets 86 00:06:08,800 --> 00:06:14,000 Speaker 1: launching and stuff. Aircraft carriers don't ride solo. They rolled deep. 87 00:06:14,600 --> 00:06:18,320 Speaker 1: Uh that you'll we have to remember that an aircraft 88 00:06:18,360 --> 00:06:21,040 Speaker 1: carrier is one part of what is it called an 89 00:06:21,040 --> 00:06:25,400 Speaker 1: aircraft carrier battle group, and that includes other ships. It 90 00:06:25,520 --> 00:06:28,159 Speaker 1: changes depending on the mission, but you know it includes 91 00:06:28,200 --> 00:06:34,680 Speaker 1: things like guided missile cruisers, destroyers, uh, frigates like this. 92 00:06:34,680 --> 00:06:37,560 Speaker 1: This is not the only thing on the album. An 93 00:06:37,560 --> 00:06:40,880 Speaker 1: aircraft carrier battle group is kind of like a Posse track. 94 00:06:41,520 --> 00:06:44,279 Speaker 1: But the aircraft carrier is the you know is the Tupac. 95 00:06:45,000 --> 00:06:48,960 Speaker 1: And really quickly, what is a frigate? Yeah? Yeah, frigate 96 00:06:49,080 --> 00:06:51,279 Speaker 1: is It is an old term. I love so many 97 00:06:51,320 --> 00:06:55,200 Speaker 1: maritime terms. There's also like frigotea. Uh, A frigate is 98 00:06:55,240 --> 00:07:00,800 Speaker 1: meant to protect other warships and some and I think 99 00:07:00,839 --> 00:07:03,359 Speaker 1: they specialized. Again, I'm not a member of the navy, 100 00:07:03,400 --> 00:07:07,799 Speaker 1: but I think they specialized in anti submarine warfare pretty often. 101 00:07:08,440 --> 00:07:10,800 Speaker 1: Every time I hear I just want to say, frigging frigate. 102 00:07:11,000 --> 00:07:13,440 Speaker 1: You know, it's just got it's got the ring to it, 103 00:07:13,480 --> 00:07:16,280 Speaker 1: but please let us right the ship and move forward. 104 00:07:16,320 --> 00:07:19,280 Speaker 1: In the episode, there we go, There we Go. The 105 00:07:21,040 --> 00:07:26,120 Speaker 1: So aside from being powerful in offensive terms, the Curse 106 00:07:26,520 --> 00:07:31,680 Speaker 1: was also very uh. It was a source of pride 107 00:07:31,720 --> 00:07:39,040 Speaker 1: for the Russian military because it's structure was purportedly incredibly 108 00:07:39,120 --> 00:07:43,120 Speaker 1: robust and sturdy in a way that would worry the 109 00:07:43,200 --> 00:07:48,160 Speaker 1: members of NATO. Yes, the whole design of this craft 110 00:07:49,000 --> 00:07:55,600 Speaker 1: made it very very, at least on paper, difficult to sink, 111 00:07:55,720 --> 00:08:00,600 Speaker 1: to breach the whole, to to cause major damage to 112 00:08:00,640 --> 00:08:05,000 Speaker 1: this thing. It had a double whole design, So just 113 00:08:05,000 --> 00:08:07,240 Speaker 1: think about this way. On the outer the exoscale and 114 00:08:07,360 --> 00:08:11,160 Speaker 1: essentially the outer hole was stainless steel that had all 115 00:08:11,240 --> 00:08:15,280 Speaker 1: kinds of different metals in their nickel, chromium, and um. 116 00:08:15,320 --> 00:08:19,280 Speaker 1: It had extremely good resistance to things like corrosion and 117 00:08:19,360 --> 00:08:23,400 Speaker 1: natural processes that would weaken the whole system. And something's 118 00:08:23,400 --> 00:08:25,800 Speaker 1: really interesting. These metals actually have a bit of a 119 00:08:25,800 --> 00:08:29,200 Speaker 1: weak magneticism to them. And something really interesting about these 120 00:08:29,200 --> 00:08:32,559 Speaker 1: metals nickel and chromium and you know, combined there with steel, 121 00:08:33,080 --> 00:08:37,280 Speaker 1: both of these metals were very difficult to detect with 122 00:08:37,360 --> 00:08:40,360 Speaker 1: this thing that the United States military was using a 123 00:08:40,440 --> 00:08:44,679 Speaker 1: magnetic anominally detector. Uh. And because those metals have those 124 00:08:44,720 --> 00:08:49,079 Speaker 1: weak signals as it's traveling through the see through the ocean, Uh, 125 00:08:49,120 --> 00:08:52,920 Speaker 1: it's not as easily detected because of that weak signature 126 00:08:52,920 --> 00:08:55,800 Speaker 1: of those metals contained. And you know, then you get 127 00:08:55,800 --> 00:08:58,240 Speaker 1: into the inner hole and you're looking at two inch 128 00:08:58,320 --> 00:09:03,760 Speaker 1: thick steel. It's it's really cool because the the structure 129 00:09:03,920 --> 00:09:07,920 Speaker 1: of that outer and inner hole essentially made this thing 130 00:09:08,040 --> 00:09:11,120 Speaker 1: so strong that you could just plow through ice out 131 00:09:11,120 --> 00:09:13,640 Speaker 1: in the Arctic somewhere if you needed to, just to 132 00:09:13,679 --> 00:09:17,480 Speaker 1: break through. And the way this structure, I mean already 133 00:09:17,720 --> 00:09:19,880 Speaker 1: we're kind of describing here is just how strong this 134 00:09:20,000 --> 00:09:25,160 Speaker 1: thing is. Right. It was compared a lot to the Titanic, 135 00:09:25,240 --> 00:09:27,680 Speaker 1: at least in some of the writing that that I 136 00:09:27,720 --> 00:09:30,839 Speaker 1: saw about the ship or the boat, excuse me, the submarine, 137 00:09:31,240 --> 00:09:35,800 Speaker 1: because it was built with these compartments, separated, separated compartments 138 00:09:35,840 --> 00:09:38,440 Speaker 1: that if one were to be breached and a flood 139 00:09:38,480 --> 00:09:40,560 Speaker 1: was to occur in one of those you could turn. 140 00:09:40,679 --> 00:09:43,560 Speaker 1: You could shut that thing down, lock it off, and 141 00:09:43,600 --> 00:09:46,840 Speaker 1: then be safe in another compartment. Even if the submarine 142 00:09:46,840 --> 00:09:50,200 Speaker 1: were to sink all the way down to the ocean floor, 143 00:09:50,760 --> 00:09:54,680 Speaker 1: the crew would theoretically be able to survive in one 144 00:09:54,679 --> 00:09:57,880 Speaker 1: of those other compartments if they did, you know, seal 145 00:09:57,960 --> 00:10:01,920 Speaker 1: themselves in essentially and had enough oxygen. But that comparison 146 00:10:01,920 --> 00:10:05,319 Speaker 1: to the Titanic about being unsinkable and that structure is 147 00:10:05,440 --> 00:10:08,720 Speaker 1: very interesting. Yeah. I don't know if it's our own 148 00:10:08,800 --> 00:10:12,640 Speaker 1: kind of personal selection bias or something, but it seems 149 00:10:12,640 --> 00:10:18,560 Speaker 1: like historically, whenever we run into, uh, these so called 150 00:10:18,640 --> 00:10:23,160 Speaker 1: indestructible or impregnable structures, something goes terribly awry. It's like 151 00:10:23,200 --> 00:10:28,680 Speaker 1: putting a target on your inventions back. This boat was 152 00:10:28,720 --> 00:10:33,000 Speaker 1: able to do something amazing and possibly something that would 153 00:10:33,040 --> 00:10:36,560 Speaker 1: terrify some of our land lovers in the audience. The 154 00:10:36,640 --> 00:10:40,600 Speaker 1: Curse was able to remain submerge for up to a 155 00:10:40,760 --> 00:10:43,800 Speaker 1: hundred and twenty days. That means if you were on 156 00:10:43,840 --> 00:10:48,079 Speaker 1: the crew of the Curse, it was theoretically possible that 157 00:10:48,120 --> 00:10:50,840 Speaker 1: you would sink under the surface of the briny blue 158 00:10:51,360 --> 00:10:55,040 Speaker 1: and you would not see the sun or see the 159 00:10:55,080 --> 00:10:59,120 Speaker 1: sky until almost half a year had passed. I just 160 00:10:59,160 --> 00:11:02,280 Speaker 1: have to say I have no military experience, but the 161 00:11:02,360 --> 00:11:07,679 Speaker 1: concept of doing that for a hundred and twenty days straight, um, psychologically, 162 00:11:08,440 --> 00:11:10,760 Speaker 1: I would not want to be in there trapped with 163 00:11:11,160 --> 00:11:17,360 Speaker 1: what a hundred maybe hundred plus human beings inside that thing. No, 164 00:11:17,480 --> 00:11:20,160 Speaker 1: thank you, I can't even imagine just the logistics of that. 165 00:11:20,200 --> 00:11:22,440 Speaker 1: And just like the sanitary conditions, you know what I mean. 166 00:11:22,480 --> 00:11:25,560 Speaker 1: I'm sure you know there's there's things to help keep 167 00:11:25,640 --> 00:11:28,320 Speaker 1: things from becoming from deteriorating into a state of you know, 168 00:11:28,760 --> 00:11:31,960 Speaker 1: um disgustingness. I guess for lack of a better word, 169 00:11:32,280 --> 00:11:34,960 Speaker 1: but it seems like it'd be pretty stinky down there 170 00:11:35,160 --> 00:11:40,560 Speaker 1: with all those men's you know, bodies. Yeah, that's what's that. 171 00:11:40,559 --> 00:11:42,600 Speaker 1: That's one of the first things I thought of too. 172 00:11:42,679 --> 00:11:46,200 Speaker 1: Because we have we have amazing technology for you know, um, 173 00:11:46,200 --> 00:11:50,720 Speaker 1: recycling air. We have an amazing water reclamation technology as 174 00:11:50,760 --> 00:11:55,320 Speaker 1: a species, but for some reason, our entire species just 175 00:11:55,400 --> 00:11:57,840 Speaker 1: hasn't figured out a way to get around the funk, 176 00:11:58,280 --> 00:12:02,400 Speaker 1: you know, just that locker stank with an a that 177 00:12:02,440 --> 00:12:06,040 Speaker 1: occurs whenever you have a bunch of a bunch of 178 00:12:06,080 --> 00:12:10,559 Speaker 1: people in a small, claustrophobic situation, and you know, we're 179 00:12:10,600 --> 00:12:14,240 Speaker 1: not We want to be completely fair. Like, the Curse 180 00:12:14,400 --> 00:12:17,640 Speaker 1: was large enough and to a degree opulent enough that 181 00:12:17,880 --> 00:12:22,320 Speaker 1: senior UH senior officers did have their own state rooms. 182 00:12:22,800 --> 00:12:27,080 Speaker 1: It's not like everybody was three people to a bunk 183 00:12:27,160 --> 00:12:29,640 Speaker 1: or something. But still, life on a submarine is is very, 184 00:12:29,760 --> 00:12:35,160 Speaker 1: very challenging. And the Curse itself actually only completed a 185 00:12:35,280 --> 00:12:39,920 Speaker 1: single mission during its time, which sounds unusual for such 186 00:12:39,960 --> 00:12:45,040 Speaker 1: a um, such a juggernaut of the waves. During five 187 00:12:45,160 --> 00:12:50,080 Speaker 1: years of service, it completed one six month deployment to 188 00:12:50,120 --> 00:12:55,080 Speaker 1: the Mediterranean seed. This was in and they were going 189 00:12:55,160 --> 00:12:59,120 Speaker 1: to monitor US naval response to the coast of a 190 00:12:59,280 --> 00:13:02,679 Speaker 1: crisis that was occurring. Now, you might ask yourself, why 191 00:13:02,800 --> 00:13:07,280 Speaker 1: spend so much time, blood and treasure on the creation 192 00:13:07,640 --> 00:13:12,520 Speaker 1: of a craft like this and not really take it out, 193 00:13:13,040 --> 00:13:14,640 Speaker 1: you know, not really give it a spin around the 194 00:13:14,640 --> 00:13:19,680 Speaker 1: global block. It turns out there were I don't know 195 00:13:19,679 --> 00:13:22,120 Speaker 1: if it's fair to say Russia was broke, but they 196 00:13:22,120 --> 00:13:27,120 Speaker 1: had some serious money issues going on, right, Yeah, it's crazy. Um, 197 00:13:27,240 --> 00:13:29,760 Speaker 1: So they spent all this money, you know, top dollar 198 00:13:29,880 --> 00:13:33,960 Speaker 1: to make this impregnable, UH, you know, b a myth 199 00:13:34,120 --> 00:13:38,240 Speaker 1: of a of a seafaring war machine. Um. And they 200 00:13:38,480 --> 00:13:41,839 Speaker 1: didn't factor in a little detail, you know, the the 201 00:13:42,000 --> 00:13:44,960 Speaker 1: go go juice, the stuff that makes it go, literally, 202 00:13:45,040 --> 00:13:47,480 Speaker 1: the fuel. They didn't have a hand built it into 203 00:13:47,480 --> 00:13:51,040 Speaker 1: the budget. Um. There was an absolute funding crisis that 204 00:13:51,160 --> 00:13:54,760 Speaker 1: was so serious that many members of the Northern Fleet 205 00:13:55,080 --> 00:13:59,120 Speaker 1: had gone unpaid for quite a while in the mid nineties. 206 00:13:59,520 --> 00:14:02,640 Speaker 1: Imagine in that. Okay, so now let's paint the situation, 207 00:14:03,320 --> 00:14:06,760 Speaker 1: uh with a little bit of a sharper brush to 208 00:14:06,840 --> 00:14:11,320 Speaker 1: your point, Noel, You're trapped on a submarine. You might 209 00:14:11,360 --> 00:14:17,960 Speaker 1: be underwater for four months. Everything stinks of funk and sweat. Uh. 210 00:14:18,000 --> 00:14:24,200 Speaker 1: And the other hundreds something people with you are non 211 00:14:24,280 --> 00:14:27,960 Speaker 1: consensual volunteers, right. They signed up for the Navy with 212 00:14:28,000 --> 00:14:30,440 Speaker 1: the expectation that they would be paid for it. And 213 00:14:30,480 --> 00:14:33,360 Speaker 1: all of a sudden you're not getting the checks. And 214 00:14:33,400 --> 00:14:36,040 Speaker 1: that doesn't mean you can get off the boat. You're 215 00:14:36,040 --> 00:14:40,400 Speaker 1: still stuck. It's terrible, um. And you know, I don't 216 00:14:40,400 --> 00:14:42,520 Speaker 1: want to be glib about it, because the story of 217 00:14:42,560 --> 00:14:49,120 Speaker 1: the curse takes takes a very violent turn almost twenty 218 00:14:49,200 --> 00:14:53,440 Speaker 1: years ago today. Yes, so on August ten, in the 219 00:14:53,480 --> 00:14:58,080 Speaker 1: year two thousand, well, something strange happened. There was an 220 00:14:58,160 --> 00:15:04,200 Speaker 1: unexpected disaster, at least according to the official story, right, 221 00:15:04,400 --> 00:15:09,920 Speaker 1: there's an unofficial disaster that occurs during an exercise um 222 00:15:10,000 --> 00:15:14,360 Speaker 1: out at sea. It was called Summer X, And the 223 00:15:14,400 --> 00:15:18,960 Speaker 1: way the story goes, there was a tremendous explosion inside 224 00:15:19,240 --> 00:15:24,400 Speaker 1: of the submarine itself that ended up just tearing the 225 00:15:24,480 --> 00:15:28,360 Speaker 1: thing into several pieces. Specifically, the front end, the nose 226 00:15:28,520 --> 00:15:32,880 Speaker 1: of it was completely ripped off of the submarine itself, 227 00:15:33,320 --> 00:15:37,440 Speaker 1: and there were other, uh pretty large parts of this 228 00:15:37,640 --> 00:15:41,360 Speaker 1: submarine that were completely separated and blown apart and shoved 229 00:15:41,400 --> 00:15:44,360 Speaker 1: into one another. And again, this is a submarine. You 230 00:15:44,400 --> 00:15:47,720 Speaker 1: have to remember, it is operating underneath the surface of 231 00:15:47,760 --> 00:15:51,800 Speaker 1: the water. So unless you are specifically tracking this thing 232 00:15:51,920 --> 00:15:55,480 Speaker 1: with some kind of sophisticated high powered radar or some 233 00:15:55,560 --> 00:15:58,720 Speaker 1: other technology, you don't know where it is. If you're 234 00:15:58,800 --> 00:16:00,760 Speaker 1: on the surface, let's say, even if you're in a 235 00:16:00,800 --> 00:16:05,000 Speaker 1: frigate or another ship or something that's monitoring the situation, 236 00:16:05,520 --> 00:16:08,440 Speaker 1: you don't know exactly where they are. But there were 237 00:16:08,520 --> 00:16:12,720 Speaker 1: crews on surrounding ships or nearby ships, and the only 238 00:16:12,720 --> 00:16:15,240 Speaker 1: way that they knew something had gone wrong was that 239 00:16:15,280 --> 00:16:20,479 Speaker 1: they felt the impact or essentially the boom the implosion 240 00:16:20,560 --> 00:16:24,200 Speaker 1: that occurred below, and they that you could feel it 241 00:16:24,360 --> 00:16:29,160 Speaker 1: essentially being on another craft. This disaster occurred in an 242 00:16:29,160 --> 00:16:34,160 Speaker 1: area known as the Barrens Scene. The Barren Sea is 243 00:16:35,160 --> 00:16:38,200 Speaker 1: a part of the Arctic Ocean. It's off the northern 244 00:16:38,280 --> 00:16:43,640 Speaker 1: coast of Norway and Russia. Uh and this this geography 245 00:16:43,680 --> 00:16:48,200 Speaker 1: is important because that second, much larger explosion created an 246 00:16:48,240 --> 00:16:52,160 Speaker 1: impact that could be felt as far away as Alaska. 247 00:16:52,560 --> 00:16:56,680 Speaker 1: Later research by seismologists would conclude that this was the 248 00:16:57,240 --> 00:17:00,960 Speaker 1: force was equivalent to that of an earthquake, measuring four 249 00:17:01,080 --> 00:17:07,920 Speaker 1: point two on the Richter scale, which means that which 250 00:17:07,960 --> 00:17:11,520 Speaker 1: of course would lead you to to rightly assume that 251 00:17:11,760 --> 00:17:14,720 Speaker 1: new missions were part of the explosion, you know what 252 00:17:14,760 --> 00:17:18,800 Speaker 1: I mean, not just a fire or something. Yes, And 253 00:17:18,880 --> 00:17:22,920 Speaker 1: it follows that there were no survivors. All one and 254 00:17:23,000 --> 00:17:27,240 Speaker 1: eighteen members of the crew of the Kurs perished in 255 00:17:27,280 --> 00:17:30,560 Speaker 1: the disaster. Um And you know, this was something that 256 00:17:30,640 --> 00:17:33,960 Speaker 1: Vladimir Putin, who was recently elected at the time. It's 257 00:17:33,960 --> 00:17:37,040 Speaker 1: hard to imagine a time when Vladimir Putin wasn't the 258 00:17:37,080 --> 00:17:40,000 Speaker 1: head of this part of the world, but there there 259 00:17:40,040 --> 00:17:43,120 Speaker 1: certainly was, and he had recently been elected and staked 260 00:17:43,160 --> 00:17:46,000 Speaker 1: a lot of his reputation on pushing for this project. 261 00:17:46,640 --> 00:17:51,159 Speaker 1: So this was a big blow uh to to him personally. UM. 262 00:17:51,280 --> 00:17:53,720 Speaker 1: And it wasn't a good look either that he happened 263 00:17:53,720 --> 00:17:56,760 Speaker 1: to be on vacation at the time. UM. And this 264 00:17:56,800 --> 00:17:58,960 Speaker 1: did not play well with relatives of the crew members. 265 00:17:59,119 --> 00:18:01,439 Speaker 1: I watched the document, sure you about this, and there 266 00:18:01,440 --> 00:18:04,919 Speaker 1: there were a lot of I guess hearings where relatives 267 00:18:04,920 --> 00:18:08,680 Speaker 1: of the crew members were just shrieking in in Russian 268 00:18:08,840 --> 00:18:11,480 Speaker 1: and just at the top of their lungs, cursing Putin 269 00:18:11,560 --> 00:18:14,440 Speaker 1: and this regime, UM, and saying, how could you let 270 00:18:14,680 --> 00:18:17,399 Speaker 1: these men live in a tiny box for you know, 271 00:18:17,600 --> 00:18:20,160 Speaker 1: however long? We we know it was. It was quite 272 00:18:20,200 --> 00:18:23,280 Speaker 1: a long time with no pay. We know that happened too. 273 00:18:23,720 --> 00:18:26,680 Speaker 1: And then just you know, let them dialect dogs basically, 274 00:18:26,720 --> 00:18:29,240 Speaker 1: you know, so a lot of emotion. UM. They were 275 00:18:29,320 --> 00:18:33,520 Speaker 1: absolutely aghast and enraged at the way this disaster was handled. 276 00:18:34,080 --> 00:18:39,280 Speaker 1: They argued that the official statements were absolute uh disinformation, 277 00:18:39,320 --> 00:18:43,280 Speaker 1: absolute bs Um. Was there a cover up? We'll talk 278 00:18:43,280 --> 00:18:52,240 Speaker 1: about that after a quick word from our sponsor. Let's 279 00:18:52,280 --> 00:18:58,760 Speaker 1: walk through the immediate aftermath of this disaster, and you know, 280 00:18:59,080 --> 00:19:04,360 Speaker 1: it's tempting just say that. Of course, anyone will react 281 00:19:05,400 --> 00:19:08,720 Speaker 1: with intense grief and emotion when they lose a loved one, 282 00:19:09,160 --> 00:19:13,200 Speaker 1: but it's it's crucial for us to emphasize that the 283 00:19:13,320 --> 00:19:16,320 Speaker 1: claims of the relatives of these crew members were not 284 00:19:16,440 --> 00:19:19,840 Speaker 1: just made up out of whole cloth. They didn't just 285 00:19:20,760 --> 00:19:23,880 Speaker 1: wake up for no reason and and decide to accuse 286 00:19:23,960 --> 00:19:29,120 Speaker 1: the government of deceiving them. Later research found that there 287 00:19:29,200 --> 00:19:34,680 Speaker 1: were intense problems with the investigation. The Russian Navy, according 288 00:19:34,720 --> 00:19:39,640 Speaker 1: to official sources, initially did not realize an accident had occurred. 289 00:19:40,040 --> 00:19:45,879 Speaker 1: More than six hours passed before an initial search even began. 290 00:19:46,040 --> 00:19:49,680 Speaker 1: And to your point about those compartments, Matt, does that mean, 291 00:19:49,920 --> 00:19:52,679 Speaker 1: like you can look at layouts of the of the 292 00:19:52,680 --> 00:19:55,480 Speaker 1: these nine compartments and the cursed. Does that mean that 293 00:19:55,640 --> 00:19:59,879 Speaker 1: some of the eighteen people aboard were able to escape 294 00:20:00,160 --> 00:20:03,399 Speaker 1: whatever that initial blast was and moved to a safer compartment. 295 00:20:03,800 --> 00:20:07,240 Speaker 1: Would six hours have saved them? You know, eleven hours 296 00:20:07,280 --> 00:20:11,960 Speaker 1: later the Navy declared an emergency. Finally, later research showed 297 00:20:12,440 --> 00:20:15,960 Speaker 1: that all crew members had died by that point. Normally, 298 00:20:16,000 --> 00:20:18,719 Speaker 1: there's a you know, cash of safety gear um on 299 00:20:18,800 --> 00:20:23,120 Speaker 1: these types of subs rescue buoy's um which automatically deployed 300 00:20:23,520 --> 00:20:26,880 Speaker 1: like an escape pod in a spaceship or something, but 301 00:20:27,359 --> 00:20:30,280 Speaker 1: that did not occur. The booty of the Curse had 302 00:20:30,320 --> 00:20:34,959 Speaker 1: been disabled. It took the Navy sixteen hours to find 303 00:20:35,320 --> 00:20:38,000 Speaker 1: the wreckage and and to to start to kind of 304 00:20:38,040 --> 00:20:40,680 Speaker 1: like figure out what had happened. Um. Rumors were circulating 305 00:20:40,800 --> 00:20:43,720 Speaker 1: the sub may have collided with the mine, which we 306 00:20:43,800 --> 00:20:46,480 Speaker 1: know exists. We know there's like you know, still potentially 307 00:20:46,680 --> 00:20:48,720 Speaker 1: isn't there one in Savannah Bend? Then we talked about 308 00:20:48,720 --> 00:20:51,480 Speaker 1: that in Savannah, Georgia. There's a mine somewhere out there 309 00:20:51,480 --> 00:20:55,119 Speaker 1: in the in the harbor. It's a nuclear nuclear weapon. 310 00:20:55,359 --> 00:20:58,399 Speaker 1: Oh even worse, but still we have heard tell of 311 00:20:59,000 --> 00:21:02,160 Speaker 1: still active minds out there, you know, from from War 312 00:21:02,600 --> 00:21:05,520 Speaker 1: h and this was a again a rumor, but that 313 00:21:05,560 --> 00:21:08,760 Speaker 1: it had been an undeployed mine UM that it collided 314 00:21:08,800 --> 00:21:12,159 Speaker 1: with inadvertently. Yeah, from way back in World War two. 315 00:21:13,040 --> 00:21:14,720 Speaker 1: They're all, you know, they're all kinds of rumors that 316 00:21:14,760 --> 00:21:20,200 Speaker 1: were circulating around the time. It's it makes total sense, right, 317 00:21:20,520 --> 00:21:23,280 Speaker 1: how on earth could this have happened? We were doing 318 00:21:23,440 --> 00:21:27,199 Speaker 1: some kind of official exercise. Nothing could have should have 319 00:21:27,359 --> 00:21:32,080 Speaker 1: gone wrong. Maybe there was a friendly fire situation, an 320 00:21:32,119 --> 00:21:36,159 Speaker 1: accidental you know, deployment of a torpedo that ended up 321 00:21:36,240 --> 00:21:40,040 Speaker 1: hitting a friendly target in this way right if you're 322 00:21:40,280 --> 00:21:43,720 Speaker 1: if you're imagining yourself as as the Russian military or 323 00:21:44,000 --> 00:21:48,679 Speaker 1: some of the the commanders there. And the thing is, 324 00:21:48,880 --> 00:21:50,720 Speaker 1: there's all kinds of other stuff that people have said 325 00:21:50,760 --> 00:21:52,840 Speaker 1: over the years about what may have happened. But now 326 00:21:52,920 --> 00:21:57,280 Speaker 1: almost twenty years, almost twenty years to the day later, 327 00:21:58,240 --> 00:22:02,960 Speaker 1: the question still remains what actually happened inside that submarine 328 00:22:03,040 --> 00:22:08,640 Speaker 1: and to that submarine on that day August. Here's where 329 00:22:08,680 --> 00:22:15,920 Speaker 1: it gets crazy. The official explanation, even at first was 330 00:22:15,920 --> 00:22:20,680 Speaker 1: was suspicious. There were problems that cropped up with it immediately. 331 00:22:20,840 --> 00:22:25,160 Speaker 1: The primary issue was the high amount of secrecy involved. 332 00:22:25,240 --> 00:22:30,680 Speaker 1: The Russian government refused all international offers of assistance, which 333 00:22:31,359 --> 00:22:34,920 Speaker 1: can you know, if you're suspicious, it can function as 334 00:22:35,400 --> 00:22:39,080 Speaker 1: tacit confirmation that they had perhaps some secret technology on 335 00:22:39,119 --> 00:22:42,840 Speaker 1: there or something that they were not uh comfortable with 336 00:22:42,920 --> 00:22:48,520 Speaker 1: other nations discovering. These things went back and forth. So 337 00:22:48,560 --> 00:22:51,960 Speaker 1: we're going to jump around in time just a little 338 00:22:52,000 --> 00:22:58,679 Speaker 1: bit right now. The official explanation is that the authorities 339 00:22:58,680 --> 00:23:01,919 Speaker 1: say the crew of the current was preparing to load 340 00:23:02,119 --> 00:23:06,480 Speaker 1: a dummy torpedo, a practice torpedo, right, because these are 341 00:23:06,560 --> 00:23:10,600 Speaker 1: naval exercises. That doesn't mean it's it's actual war, so 342 00:23:10,640 --> 00:23:13,919 Speaker 1: they don't want to shoot, you know, genuine torpedoes. And 343 00:23:14,000 --> 00:23:17,080 Speaker 1: this torpedo that they were loading, which was a sixty 344 00:23:17,440 --> 00:23:25,080 Speaker 1: seventy six kid torpedo, had two problems. First, it contained 345 00:23:25,119 --> 00:23:28,600 Speaker 1: a liquid called high test peroxide. This is not the 346 00:23:28,680 --> 00:23:30,960 Speaker 1: kind of stuff that you put in your hair when 347 00:23:31,000 --> 00:23:35,040 Speaker 1: you're a teenager or something. Uh. Second problem, they claimed 348 00:23:35,040 --> 00:23:37,719 Speaker 1: there was a manufacturing defect and that there was a 349 00:23:37,760 --> 00:23:42,280 Speaker 1: faulty weld in the casing of the sub of the torpedo. 350 00:23:42,359 --> 00:23:46,600 Speaker 1: And so when the when they were loading this on, 351 00:23:48,200 --> 00:23:52,080 Speaker 1: this high test peroxide or h t P leaked from 352 00:23:52,080 --> 00:23:57,120 Speaker 1: this faulty weld and it caused the torpedoes fuel to explode. 353 00:23:57,160 --> 00:24:00,399 Speaker 1: That fuel is kerosene, right, and kerosene is a friend 354 00:24:00,640 --> 00:24:04,000 Speaker 1: of explosions. And remember, by the way, this is a 355 00:24:04,160 --> 00:24:08,679 Speaker 1: sixty five type weapon. That's the aircraft carrier killer that 356 00:24:08,760 --> 00:24:12,679 Speaker 1: we were talking about. A very large weapon. Are a 357 00:24:12,760 --> 00:24:17,320 Speaker 1: very large a piece of ammunition? Uh, why don't you 358 00:24:17,359 --> 00:24:22,360 Speaker 1: call it? Around if you will, um so. So when 359 00:24:22,560 --> 00:24:26,000 Speaker 1: the explosion occurred, mixed with the things we're talking about there, 360 00:24:26,119 --> 00:24:30,240 Speaker 1: the kerosene and the high the HTP, it blew off 361 00:24:30,359 --> 00:24:34,760 Speaker 1: the inner and outer doors to the torpedo, so the 362 00:24:34,880 --> 00:24:38,760 Speaker 1: things that are really helping in a lot of ways 363 00:24:38,800 --> 00:24:41,960 Speaker 1: to keep the water out, which is you know, generally 364 00:24:41,960 --> 00:24:46,119 Speaker 1: a good thing when you're inside a metal container inside 365 00:24:46,119 --> 00:24:49,640 Speaker 1: the ocean. Um then it started a fire. It destroyed 366 00:24:49,760 --> 00:24:53,119 Speaker 1: the bulkhead, the separator essentially between the first and second 367 00:24:53,200 --> 00:24:56,080 Speaker 1: compartments like the ones we were talking about there where 368 00:24:56,800 --> 00:25:00,800 Speaker 1: uh the control room, by the way, was in one 369 00:25:00,840 --> 00:25:03,800 Speaker 1: of those. So when that bulkhead was destroyed between the 370 00:25:03,800 --> 00:25:07,280 Speaker 1: first and second compartments and that fires going, you actually 371 00:25:07,280 --> 00:25:11,360 Speaker 1: had probably at least in all likelihood most if not 372 00:25:11,400 --> 00:25:13,800 Speaker 1: all of the crew within the control room, the people 373 00:25:13,960 --> 00:25:18,119 Speaker 1: running the boat, running the sub, they probably all perished 374 00:25:18,520 --> 00:25:21,919 Speaker 1: or at least were badly injured and pairs soon after 375 00:25:22,040 --> 00:25:26,120 Speaker 1: that really really messed up. And then we have that 376 00:25:26,320 --> 00:25:28,720 Speaker 1: second explosion that was noticed by a lot of the 377 00:25:28,760 --> 00:25:31,520 Speaker 1: crew that was on the surface, and that really is 378 00:25:31,560 --> 00:25:35,840 Speaker 1: an issue when you don't have access to controls of 379 00:25:36,080 --> 00:25:40,160 Speaker 1: a ship that you were on or a boat yeah, yeah, 380 00:25:40,320 --> 00:25:44,600 Speaker 1: no kidding. And and this we know that that initial 381 00:25:44,720 --> 00:25:48,119 Speaker 1: blast occurs, right the the theory is, or the official 382 00:25:48,160 --> 00:25:50,560 Speaker 1: explanation is the way that you just outlined it bad. 383 00:25:51,359 --> 00:25:54,520 Speaker 1: The idea is that two minutes and fifteen seconds ballpark 384 00:25:54,640 --> 00:25:58,800 Speaker 1: after that initial blast, the submarine the cursed had reached 385 00:25:58,960 --> 00:26:03,280 Speaker 1: the floor of this e and this, the intensity of 386 00:26:03,320 --> 00:26:10,000 Speaker 1: this initial fire, eventually triggered the detonation of multiple torpedo 387 00:26:10,240 --> 00:26:15,680 Speaker 1: warheads on board. It is impossible in the English language 388 00:26:15,880 --> 00:26:21,040 Speaker 1: to accurately describe how terrible that is because remember earlier 389 00:26:21,040 --> 00:26:23,760 Speaker 1: in the episode, just for an example, we pointed out 390 00:26:23,840 --> 00:26:28,320 Speaker 1: that these warheads could weigh nine pounds. This is calamitous. 391 00:26:28,440 --> 00:26:32,640 Speaker 1: That second explosion was the equivalent of over two tons 392 00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:35,520 Speaker 1: of T and T. But as we said, there were 393 00:26:35,520 --> 00:26:38,840 Speaker 1: people who had a lot of problems with this explanation. No, 394 00:26:38,840 --> 00:26:45,000 Speaker 1: no doubt, the torpedo manufacturer themselves completely contested this version 395 00:26:45,040 --> 00:26:48,600 Speaker 1: of events. UM. In addition to that, the official story 396 00:26:49,000 --> 00:26:53,479 Speaker 1: seemed to contradict Russia's own claims about the hull of 397 00:26:53,520 --> 00:26:58,159 Speaker 1: the craft. UH. It seemed completely inconceivable that that double 398 00:26:58,240 --> 00:27:02,760 Speaker 1: hull design with those nine water tight compartments UM, which 399 00:27:02,760 --> 00:27:05,280 Speaker 1: are obviously meant to fill up in the event of 400 00:27:05,280 --> 00:27:08,920 Speaker 1: of a breach to keep it from completely being compromised. 401 00:27:09,160 --> 00:27:13,000 Speaker 1: That it would have taken just the absolute most violent 402 00:27:13,080 --> 00:27:19,600 Speaker 1: explosion to pierce uh those very very um uh fortified 403 00:27:19,920 --> 00:27:23,119 Speaker 1: water tight compartments. Um. So let's go into some of 404 00:27:23,119 --> 00:27:26,840 Speaker 1: the possibilities. We start off with maybe the most plausible, 405 00:27:27,080 --> 00:27:29,560 Speaker 1: like using kind of process of elimination and just a 406 00:27:29,560 --> 00:27:32,480 Speaker 1: common sense. At the time, senior officers in the Russian 407 00:27:32,560 --> 00:27:35,800 Speaker 1: Navy claimed that the curse had collided with a British 408 00:27:35,880 --> 00:27:40,760 Speaker 1: or American sub that was running spying maneuvers out in 409 00:27:40,920 --> 00:27:47,080 Speaker 1: the Barents Sea. Yeah, the so this is interesting, nay 410 00:27:47,160 --> 00:27:50,440 Speaker 1: more because what we see here is that both quote 411 00:27:50,520 --> 00:27:53,920 Speaker 1: unquote sides of the military's involved are accusing the other 412 00:27:53,960 --> 00:27:58,560 Speaker 1: ones of spy. So our us position is the curse. 413 00:27:59,359 --> 00:28:02,400 Speaker 1: It was said they were doing exercises, but the real 414 00:28:02,480 --> 00:28:04,760 Speaker 1: goal was, or at least one of the goals, was 415 00:28:04,840 --> 00:28:09,000 Speaker 1: to spy on the US right and detect our maritime presence. 416 00:28:09,640 --> 00:28:12,879 Speaker 1: That makes total sense. I'm not saying that's untrue. It 417 00:28:13,040 --> 00:28:18,080 Speaker 1: probably is because military exercises or war games or whatever 418 00:28:18,080 --> 00:28:20,919 Speaker 1: you want to call them, are often they often have 419 00:28:21,040 --> 00:28:26,560 Speaker 1: multiple inlterior motives. Right, Let's show an antagonistic force that 420 00:28:26,640 --> 00:28:30,280 Speaker 1: we can um like China a few years back. Let's 421 00:28:30,280 --> 00:28:33,000 Speaker 1: show the US that we can also shoot satellites out 422 00:28:33,000 --> 00:28:36,480 Speaker 1: of the sky. Let's let's call that. Let's let's call 423 00:28:36,520 --> 00:28:39,360 Speaker 1: that a test for the environment or whatever. They said 424 00:28:39,440 --> 00:28:42,200 Speaker 1: that was hilarious. Maybe I'm being a jerk. I don't know. 425 00:28:42,480 --> 00:28:46,200 Speaker 1: I don't think so. Just speaking of in part of 426 00:28:46,280 --> 00:28:49,640 Speaker 1: another bit of submarine research that we were doing together, 427 00:28:50,280 --> 00:28:53,040 Speaker 1: we we heard and I'm going to quote this, it's 428 00:28:53,080 --> 00:29:00,080 Speaker 1: from PBSS NOVA. They discussed how way back when, in 429 00:29:00,880 --> 00:29:06,320 Speaker 1: the nineteen sixties and seventies, the United States militaries, specifically 430 00:29:06,320 --> 00:29:11,160 Speaker 1: the Navy, working with several others, they miked the entire ocean, 431 00:29:11,560 --> 00:29:15,880 Speaker 1: or almost the entire ocean. And this is this is 432 00:29:15,920 --> 00:29:18,960 Speaker 1: something that we are probably gonna do an entire episode 433 00:29:19,000 --> 00:29:21,440 Speaker 1: on if we haven't done it already, which maybe we have. 434 00:29:21,520 --> 00:29:25,440 Speaker 1: I don't think we have. But there were microphones everywhere. 435 00:29:25,720 --> 00:29:28,640 Speaker 1: As an audio nerd, the logistics of that alone is 436 00:29:28,760 --> 00:29:32,200 Speaker 1: blowing my mind. I mean, making up a drum kit 437 00:29:32,360 --> 00:29:34,040 Speaker 1: is a pain in the butt, you know. Can you 438 00:29:34,040 --> 00:29:38,880 Speaker 1: imagine miking the entire ocean? Any audio files or studio 439 00:29:38,960 --> 00:29:42,360 Speaker 1: rats out there know what we're talking about. Well, it's 440 00:29:42,440 --> 00:29:47,080 Speaker 1: it's it's I guess less sophisticated than you may imagine. Uh, 441 00:29:47,240 --> 00:29:52,800 Speaker 1: it's more about visual readouts. But it just knowing that 442 00:29:52,840 --> 00:29:56,840 Speaker 1: the U. S. Military was listening to everything to identify 443 00:29:57,080 --> 00:30:00,640 Speaker 1: exactly where Russia was operating or the in the Soviet 444 00:30:00,720 --> 00:30:05,440 Speaker 1: Union of just it's everybody's doing it, that's all. And 445 00:30:05,480 --> 00:30:08,360 Speaker 1: again no no shade here at all, because we have 446 00:30:08,400 --> 00:30:12,720 Speaker 1: to remember, you know, uh, everybody is trying to do this. 447 00:30:13,320 --> 00:30:18,320 Speaker 1: The US had satellites taking photographs before they could figure 448 00:30:18,320 --> 00:30:21,880 Speaker 1: out a like a viable way to send those photographs 449 00:30:21,880 --> 00:30:25,600 Speaker 1: back to Earth. They literally where Paul beat me here, 450 00:30:25,640 --> 00:30:29,720 Speaker 1: They were literally dropping filmage from the sky and then 451 00:30:30,040 --> 00:30:32,479 Speaker 1: sending some poor schmuck out to try to catch it. 452 00:30:32,840 --> 00:30:35,960 Speaker 1: So like, yeah, everybody is everybody is spying on each 453 00:30:36,000 --> 00:30:38,479 Speaker 1: other in some way. And the reason we're bringing up 454 00:30:38,480 --> 00:30:43,000 Speaker 1: this dichotomy is because the Russian claims are not that 455 00:30:43,040 --> 00:30:45,959 Speaker 1: they were spying on us or British craft. The Russian 456 00:30:46,000 --> 00:30:50,320 Speaker 1: claims so that they were participating in these naval exercises 457 00:30:50,560 --> 00:30:55,560 Speaker 1: and they were being shadowed by those those dastardly uh 458 00:30:55,920 --> 00:30:59,719 Speaker 1: ne'er New wells over NATO. So they're they're saying that 459 00:30:59,720 --> 00:31:04,600 Speaker 1: the US was spying on us. It seems like everybody 460 00:31:04,680 --> 00:31:06,440 Speaker 1: was spying on each other, if you want to be 461 00:31:06,440 --> 00:31:09,280 Speaker 1: completely fair, everybody was spying on each other because that's 462 00:31:09,280 --> 00:31:12,560 Speaker 1: the right thing to do. But then if that's the case, 463 00:31:13,560 --> 00:31:17,240 Speaker 1: why wasn't there a quicker response to the disaster on 464 00:31:17,280 --> 00:31:20,520 Speaker 1: the curse if it were indeed an accident. Sorry, no 465 00:31:20,520 --> 00:31:22,240 Speaker 1: one could see this on the zoom, but I just 466 00:31:22,280 --> 00:31:24,760 Speaker 1: got so pleased with myself and like leaned back from 467 00:31:24,800 --> 00:31:27,480 Speaker 1: the mic and looked at you guys. We were also 468 00:31:27,560 --> 00:31:31,920 Speaker 1: all nodding pretty heavily. But but I love the one 469 00:31:32,000 --> 00:31:34,880 Speaker 1: upsmanship or brinksmanship. Maybe now we we we went into 470 00:31:34,880 --> 00:31:35,960 Speaker 1: that one the other day, but I think this is 471 00:31:35,960 --> 00:31:37,960 Speaker 1: more one ships. Like you can spy on me, bro, 472 00:31:38,360 --> 00:31:40,600 Speaker 1: let me spy on you. Oh, you can just spy 473 00:31:40,640 --> 00:31:42,920 Speaker 1: on me. I'm gonna double hard spy on you, bro. 474 00:31:43,120 --> 00:31:45,240 Speaker 1: You know that's the way, spy on the whole world. 475 00:31:45,880 --> 00:31:52,480 Speaker 1: I'm gonna mike the ocean. So the the thing about 476 00:31:52,520 --> 00:31:56,040 Speaker 1: this is that everything we just said is true. No, no, 477 00:31:56,040 --> 00:31:58,520 Speaker 1: none of this is. None of this is conspiracy theory. 478 00:31:58,600 --> 00:32:00,680 Speaker 1: You're gonna make the ocean. Bro, I'm gonna Mike space. 479 00:32:03,000 --> 00:32:06,440 Speaker 1: Don't know what else can we Mike, Yes, Oh, then 480 00:32:06,480 --> 00:32:10,280 Speaker 1: we made smartphones. Now we have mix everywhere, right right right. 481 00:32:10,440 --> 00:32:13,000 Speaker 1: I always think of that thing in Batman where they 482 00:32:13,040 --> 00:32:15,560 Speaker 1: turn every smartphone in the world into a listening device 483 00:32:15,600 --> 00:32:19,040 Speaker 1: that is not beyond the realm of possibility. Uh these days. Uh, 484 00:32:19,240 --> 00:32:22,760 Speaker 1: it's it's pretty pretty terrifying, but total total aside. I 485 00:32:22,800 --> 00:32:25,080 Speaker 1: think it's just a fun experiment and I would love 486 00:32:25,120 --> 00:32:26,840 Speaker 1: to hear you guys take on it. And I'd love 487 00:32:26,840 --> 00:32:30,240 Speaker 1: to hear from our fellow conspiracy realist about this. Um. 488 00:32:30,280 --> 00:32:33,360 Speaker 1: So it's no secret, you know, like the I'm not 489 00:32:33,360 --> 00:32:36,320 Speaker 1: gonna put any of us on the spot specifically, but 490 00:32:36,440 --> 00:32:38,520 Speaker 1: I know between the three of us, we have a 491 00:32:38,520 --> 00:32:43,160 Speaker 1: lot of like proxies and privacy things on our phones 492 00:32:43,200 --> 00:32:47,080 Speaker 1: and on our devices. I wanted to do an experiment 493 00:32:47,560 --> 00:32:52,719 Speaker 1: where I removed those, uh you know what are ostensibly 494 00:32:52,760 --> 00:32:57,840 Speaker 1: protections to see how the ad how the ad um 495 00:32:58,040 --> 00:33:01,680 Speaker 1: magic algorithms work. And I've been I've been trying to 496 00:33:01,720 --> 00:33:05,840 Speaker 1: build an ad profile as like a deranged billionaire. So 497 00:33:06,120 --> 00:33:09,280 Speaker 1: I'll be carrying my phone around, maybe open Facebook and 498 00:33:09,360 --> 00:33:12,480 Speaker 1: an OS or something and just be like mega yacht 499 00:33:12,680 --> 00:33:21,120 Speaker 1: price price, mega yacht diamonds wholesale, yes, Tyrannosaurus Rex skeleton. Yes. 500 00:33:21,720 --> 00:33:25,200 Speaker 1: You know, so if anybody wants to do an experiment 501 00:33:25,200 --> 00:33:27,600 Speaker 1: with that, enjoying us would love to hear your results. 502 00:33:27,600 --> 00:33:29,840 Speaker 1: So far, I have not been getting targeted ads for 503 00:33:29,840 --> 00:33:32,800 Speaker 1: a mega yacht, So maybe I'm just not doing it right. 504 00:33:32,880 --> 00:33:35,280 Speaker 1: Maybe you know what, the system probably already knows that 505 00:33:35,360 --> 00:33:39,360 Speaker 1: I can't actually by I. I think mega yachts to 506 00:33:39,440 --> 00:33:40,960 Speaker 1: the kind of things that don't really need to be 507 00:33:41,000 --> 00:33:43,720 Speaker 1: advertised for. They just kind of make them to order. 508 00:33:44,240 --> 00:33:48,560 Speaker 1: You know, that's true, there's not there's there's probably not 509 00:33:49,720 --> 00:33:53,600 Speaker 1: some some guide to department in I kea going How 510 00:33:53,640 --> 00:33:56,560 Speaker 1: am I going to move all these mega yotts? People 511 00:33:56,640 --> 00:34:00,760 Speaker 1: just keep wasting money on couches. But but any way, yes, 512 00:34:00,840 --> 00:34:05,760 Speaker 1: the spying stuff is real. Noll to your point, Um, 513 00:34:05,800 --> 00:34:08,360 Speaker 1: this does seem like a plausible explanation, does it not? 514 00:34:08,920 --> 00:34:11,600 Speaker 1: For For someone to say, for for members of the 515 00:34:11,680 --> 00:34:16,040 Speaker 1: Russian Navy to say the curse cats collided with someone 516 00:34:16,480 --> 00:34:19,800 Speaker 1: that was spying on them, it has a propagandistic effect too, 517 00:34:19,840 --> 00:34:22,440 Speaker 1: because the implication here is that the other side is 518 00:34:22,520 --> 00:34:27,279 Speaker 1: somehow incompetent or or culpable, you know what I mean. Like, 519 00:34:27,320 --> 00:34:29,560 Speaker 1: it's like, look, it was their fault. They shouldn't have 520 00:34:29,560 --> 00:34:31,680 Speaker 1: been there in the first place, and they killed all 521 00:34:31,680 --> 00:34:34,080 Speaker 1: our beloved comrades. It's a good way to spend it, 522 00:34:34,320 --> 00:34:38,160 Speaker 1: to maybe redirect some of that anger we're talking about 523 00:34:38,200 --> 00:34:41,560 Speaker 1: about women, you know, wives who have lost their husbands, etcetera. 524 00:34:41,719 --> 00:34:44,759 Speaker 1: You know, mothers who've lost their sons. Uh, let's let's 525 00:34:45,400 --> 00:34:49,560 Speaker 1: point this, you know, shotgun blast of of grief and 526 00:34:49,600 --> 00:34:56,080 Speaker 1: anxiety toward the enemy or at least another and secrecy aside. Well, 527 00:34:56,200 --> 00:34:58,920 Speaker 1: actually it's it's all kind of secrecy. From this point on. 528 00:34:59,400 --> 00:35:04,040 Speaker 1: There are a lot of even more conspiratorial thoughts going 529 00:35:04,080 --> 00:35:07,279 Speaker 1: into what actually occurred here to the curse, and we're 530 00:35:07,280 --> 00:35:09,399 Speaker 1: going to talk about those after a quick word from 531 00:35:09,400 --> 00:35:21,880 Speaker 1: our sponsor. Anybody down to talk secret torpedoes always, alway, 532 00:35:21,960 --> 00:35:24,680 Speaker 1: that's one of my main things, you know what I mean. 533 00:35:24,920 --> 00:35:28,919 Speaker 1: It's like number number one on my LinkedIn is talk 534 00:35:29,000 --> 00:35:33,000 Speaker 1: to me about secret torpedoes. I'm kidding. I I haven't 535 00:35:33,000 --> 00:35:34,880 Speaker 1: been on LinkedIn forever. I don't I don't know what 536 00:35:34,920 --> 00:35:37,839 Speaker 1: it says. It's true though, there are secrets so more 537 00:35:37,880 --> 00:35:41,000 Speaker 1: conspiratorial ideas. One of the one of the ones you 538 00:35:41,000 --> 00:35:45,080 Speaker 1: will see frequently is that the Russian government was being 539 00:35:45,200 --> 00:35:49,560 Speaker 1: very secretive about the wreckage of the Curse because they 540 00:35:49,760 --> 00:35:55,400 Speaker 1: were carrying, like we had kind of um speculated earlier, 541 00:35:55,440 --> 00:36:01,080 Speaker 1: they were carrying top secret technology, specifically a classify ultra 542 00:36:01,200 --> 00:36:06,080 Speaker 1: high speed torpedo known as the squall or in Russian 543 00:36:06,480 --> 00:36:09,799 Speaker 1: s h k v a L. NATO at the time 544 00:36:09,920 --> 00:36:15,320 Speaker 1: was very concerned about this, and so for some time 545 00:36:15,400 --> 00:36:18,640 Speaker 1: you would see speculation that maybe they were taking this 546 00:36:18,880 --> 00:36:22,520 Speaker 1: off the drawing board and into action too soon, and 547 00:36:22,640 --> 00:36:27,160 Speaker 1: something had gone wrong with this new technology. I mean, 548 00:36:27,600 --> 00:36:30,560 Speaker 1: you always kind of logically makes sense, right, new technology 549 00:36:30,640 --> 00:36:35,919 Speaker 1: is super treacherous. How many people died in a space program? Right? 550 00:36:36,320 --> 00:36:39,759 Speaker 1: How many people have died in experiments with new munitions, 551 00:36:40,080 --> 00:36:43,719 Speaker 1: with new aircraft? You know what I mean. It's it's unfortunately, 552 00:36:43,760 --> 00:36:46,040 Speaker 1: it's a cost of doing the business that is war. 553 00:36:46,440 --> 00:36:49,359 Speaker 1: But here's the problem. Um, there's a lot of speculation 554 00:36:49,600 --> 00:36:53,839 Speaker 1: by you know, military experts and historians that these, uh, 555 00:36:53,920 --> 00:36:58,800 Speaker 1: this technology never really existed. Um. So that's puts a 556 00:36:58,840 --> 00:37:02,560 Speaker 1: little bit of harention to this theory. Um, but how 557 00:37:02,600 --> 00:37:09,280 Speaker 1: would they know it's hyper classified. It's hyper classified mega torpedoes. Um, 558 00:37:09,320 --> 00:37:11,759 Speaker 1: that's true. I don't know, that's I know, I know 559 00:37:11,800 --> 00:37:13,879 Speaker 1: you're joking their Matt, but it's it's a good point 560 00:37:13,920 --> 00:37:15,799 Speaker 1: you make. I mean, there really is no way of 561 00:37:15,840 --> 00:37:20,000 Speaker 1: knowing if that level of secrecy that we know the 562 00:37:20,080 --> 00:37:24,040 Speaker 1: Russians are capable of, UM was was was a thing. 563 00:37:24,640 --> 00:37:26,600 Speaker 1: So let's talk. Let's let's let's pivot away a little 564 00:37:26,600 --> 00:37:28,759 Speaker 1: bit to the American side of things. You'll see some 565 00:37:28,800 --> 00:37:32,000 Speaker 1: of these claims that the U. S. Submarine uh the well, 566 00:37:32,239 --> 00:37:34,160 Speaker 1: a pair of submarines, actually the U. S S Memphis 567 00:37:34,200 --> 00:37:37,919 Speaker 1: and the Toledo uh sank the Curse with their torpedoes, 568 00:37:38,280 --> 00:37:41,400 Speaker 1: or you know, with the official line of the Russian 569 00:37:41,400 --> 00:37:43,640 Speaker 1: government is that they collided with them while they were 570 00:37:43,680 --> 00:37:47,000 Speaker 1: out on those spying expeditions or whatever you call it 571 00:37:47,080 --> 00:37:51,080 Speaker 1: kind of exercises. And this theory goes like this, the 572 00:37:51,120 --> 00:37:54,120 Speaker 1: Toledo accidentally collided with the Curse, and so the Memphis 573 00:37:54,200 --> 00:37:59,840 Speaker 1: then opened fire when fearing retaliation, and the resulting fireing 574 00:38:00,080 --> 00:38:05,680 Speaker 1: night of the torpedoes. So kind of like at a 575 00:38:05,680 --> 00:38:08,240 Speaker 1: at a party somewhere where things get out of hand, 576 00:38:08,360 --> 00:38:11,239 Speaker 1: somebody bumps into someone and someone's like, hey, why did 577 00:38:11,239 --> 00:38:14,800 Speaker 1: you bump into me? And then someone else preemptively tries 578 00:38:14,880 --> 00:38:20,200 Speaker 1: to end a fight by starting one. It's it sounds strange, 579 00:38:20,719 --> 00:38:23,120 Speaker 1: but it also I don't know about you, well, but 580 00:38:23,280 --> 00:38:27,080 Speaker 1: it feels like it has the ring of plausibility to me, 581 00:38:27,600 --> 00:38:31,319 Speaker 1: because accidents do happen and people are already at such 582 00:38:31,360 --> 00:38:35,799 Speaker 1: an enormously tense point here. Isn't that a weird escalation though, Ben, 583 00:38:35,880 --> 00:38:37,920 Speaker 1: I guess, I guess that's to your point. The tension 584 00:38:38,080 --> 00:38:40,400 Speaker 1: is a big part of it because they shouldn't have 585 00:38:40,440 --> 00:38:42,600 Speaker 1: been there in the first place, right, So it was 586 00:38:42,640 --> 00:38:45,640 Speaker 1: almost like they were discovered and then it's right or 587 00:38:45,800 --> 00:38:49,640 Speaker 1: or these are these international waters? No, right, this is 588 00:38:49,680 --> 00:38:52,359 Speaker 1: definitely they're They're not supposed to be there. So if 589 00:38:52,360 --> 00:38:56,879 Speaker 1: the curse discovers this American spying craft, it would be 590 00:38:57,719 --> 00:38:59,879 Speaker 1: it would be on the table for them to open 591 00:39:00,000 --> 00:39:02,360 Speaker 1: are anyway, I'm just want to make sure I'm understanding. 592 00:39:03,000 --> 00:39:06,520 Speaker 1: You know. That's a really good question. From the way 593 00:39:06,880 --> 00:39:11,359 Speaker 1: the UH, from the way the situations occurring, I imagine 594 00:39:13,040 --> 00:39:16,239 Speaker 1: and listeners please correct us here, but I imagine this 595 00:39:16,320 --> 00:39:21,440 Speaker 1: is either UH an international lane of traffic or or 596 00:39:21,480 --> 00:39:26,480 Speaker 1: an international waters area, or maybe there are conflicting claims 597 00:39:26,960 --> 00:39:31,200 Speaker 1: about the severenity over the sea here because you know, 598 00:39:31,280 --> 00:39:35,320 Speaker 1: as we know, Uh, do you think land borders are messy? 599 00:39:35,440 --> 00:39:39,560 Speaker 1: Ocean borders are hilarious. They're they're they're a pile of 600 00:39:39,680 --> 00:39:42,400 Speaker 1: dangerous spaghetti that people get killed over. Ye. Man, you 601 00:39:42,440 --> 00:39:45,640 Speaker 1: can't build an ocean wall, right man, not yet. I 602 00:39:45,680 --> 00:39:48,239 Speaker 1: guess you could maybe, but it'd be pretty expensive and 603 00:39:48,280 --> 00:39:51,680 Speaker 1: pretty messy. We you know, we were really focused on 604 00:39:51,680 --> 00:39:55,719 Speaker 1: the microphones for a while. We haven't upgraded to the 605 00:39:55,719 --> 00:39:59,800 Speaker 1: wall yet, but we'll get there. So so it feels 606 00:39:59,800 --> 00:40:03,680 Speaker 1: really stick, but it also feels maybe a little bit 607 00:40:03,719 --> 00:40:08,239 Speaker 1: too convenient. The problem is that, of course, these these 608 00:40:08,280 --> 00:40:13,000 Speaker 1: lines of speculation thrive because of the secrecy immediately following 609 00:40:13,000 --> 00:40:17,600 Speaker 1: the disaster and the years following that. But let's get 610 00:40:17,640 --> 00:40:24,320 Speaker 1: really conspiratorial here. We can start connecting odd dots. According 611 00:40:24,360 --> 00:40:27,680 Speaker 1: to the stories, one of the U S submarines in 612 00:40:27,719 --> 00:40:32,760 Speaker 1: the area had its emergency buoy deployed. Like we said earlier, 613 00:40:33,040 --> 00:40:38,480 Speaker 1: an emergency buoy is an automatic thing that happens as 614 00:40:38,520 --> 00:40:42,680 Speaker 1: a means of assisting search and rescue efforts. It only 615 00:40:42,760 --> 00:40:49,879 Speaker 1: deploys generally in an emergency the Russian Curse buoy, as 616 00:40:50,000 --> 00:40:52,560 Speaker 1: I think you had said earlier, Matt was disabled and 617 00:40:52,680 --> 00:40:59,080 Speaker 1: the US buoy that deployed was apparently recovered by Russian forces. 618 00:41:00,080 --> 00:41:02,799 Speaker 1: Of the subs. The Memphis went to Port to get 619 00:41:02,840 --> 00:41:05,720 Speaker 1: repairs in Norway, so there was some kind of damage 620 00:41:05,760 --> 00:41:10,080 Speaker 1: to it. The implication is UH. And you'll see people 621 00:41:10,160 --> 00:41:13,759 Speaker 1: claiming that there is photographic evidence in the USS Memphis 622 00:41:14,200 --> 00:41:18,160 Speaker 1: and that these photos show the hatch covering this emergency 623 00:41:18,200 --> 00:41:23,359 Speaker 1: buoy is missing. So you start to see kind of 624 00:41:23,400 --> 00:41:27,279 Speaker 1: the threads connecting here. But that's that's only part of 625 00:41:27,280 --> 00:41:31,640 Speaker 1: the story. There's other speculation about the USS Toledo. Yeah, 626 00:41:31,719 --> 00:41:36,320 Speaker 1: so supposedly after this event went down, the the Toledo 627 00:41:36,400 --> 00:41:39,319 Speaker 1: itself needs to get some repairs, so it heads on 628 00:41:39,480 --> 00:41:43,239 Speaker 1: over UH to a facility within the US, and once 629 00:41:43,280 --> 00:41:46,520 Speaker 1: it gets in there, absolutely no one is allowed to 630 00:41:46,560 --> 00:41:51,399 Speaker 1: see it. The personnel that generally would be doing those 631 00:41:51,440 --> 00:41:54,279 Speaker 1: repairs and expecting and making sure if he's okay, taking 632 00:41:54,320 --> 00:41:56,799 Speaker 1: reports on that, they just don't get to look at it. 633 00:41:57,600 --> 00:42:02,680 Speaker 1: And then check this out, there's supposedly video evidence from 634 00:42:02,719 --> 00:42:06,520 Speaker 1: the Curse that shows several large gashes on the whole 635 00:42:06,680 --> 00:42:08,720 Speaker 1: or you know, a lot of damage on the whole 636 00:42:08,800 --> 00:42:13,000 Speaker 1: that's fairly long, and it seems to show that the 637 00:42:13,120 --> 00:42:16,680 Speaker 1: metal is bent inward as though there was an explosive 638 00:42:16,760 --> 00:42:22,799 Speaker 1: force on the outside pushing that metal in. Now, what 639 00:42:22,920 --> 00:42:25,600 Speaker 1: we do need to take an account here is the 640 00:42:25,640 --> 00:42:30,399 Speaker 1: concept of implosion. When you've got a pressurized container, right 641 00:42:30,920 --> 00:42:33,640 Speaker 1: that then when there's a ton of in this case 642 00:42:33,719 --> 00:42:37,600 Speaker 1: ocean water pressure on the outside and the exterior of 643 00:42:37,719 --> 00:42:41,000 Speaker 1: that let's say just a can, a big aluminum can, 644 00:42:41,280 --> 00:42:44,239 Speaker 1: if there's an if there's sufficient pressure on the outside, 645 00:42:44,600 --> 00:42:50,080 Speaker 1: then an implosion can occur where there would be essentially 646 00:42:50,120 --> 00:42:55,640 Speaker 1: a crushing of that container, and the explosion would cause 647 00:42:55,680 --> 00:42:58,799 Speaker 1: it to look a very certain way, and a lot 648 00:42:58,840 --> 00:43:00,799 Speaker 1: of times if that pressure is large enough, you would 649 00:43:00,800 --> 00:43:04,480 Speaker 1: just see fragments of metal as like that's what is 650 00:43:04,560 --> 00:43:07,440 Speaker 1: left over. That is not what happened with the Curse 651 00:43:08,120 --> 00:43:11,960 Speaker 1: for sure, at least a full implosion, because it wasn't 652 00:43:12,000 --> 00:43:15,680 Speaker 1: at full depth there when it occurred where or you know, 653 00:43:15,880 --> 00:43:19,879 Speaker 1: fifteen thousand I think feet would be around the time 654 00:43:19,880 --> 00:43:23,040 Speaker 1: when you get like full crushing depth, right, and the 655 00:43:23,360 --> 00:43:26,640 Speaker 1: Curse was at three hundred and fifty four ft under 656 00:43:26,680 --> 00:43:30,040 Speaker 1: the surface, or a hundred eight meters, right, which is 657 00:43:30,800 --> 00:43:35,160 Speaker 1: nothing compared to you know, crushing death or or deeper depths. 658 00:43:35,200 --> 00:43:39,279 Speaker 1: So we're you know, implosion. I don't know. All I'm 659 00:43:39,320 --> 00:43:42,960 Speaker 1: saying is it still feels a little fishy, but it 660 00:43:43,000 --> 00:43:49,239 Speaker 1: doesn't necessarily prove anything. Oh fishy. Yes, yeah, yeah, I 661 00:43:49,280 --> 00:43:53,200 Speaker 1: mean it's true. But there's there's another there's an even 662 00:43:53,640 --> 00:43:58,480 Speaker 1: weirder series of rumors about stuff that happened on land 663 00:43:59,239 --> 00:44:05,480 Speaker 1: after this. Yes, and this is steven fishier almost to me. Um, 664 00:44:05,520 --> 00:44:11,200 Speaker 1: it's this. The story goes that almost immediately after this incident, 665 00:44:11,360 --> 00:44:17,000 Speaker 1: a quite sizeable loan or debt to the United States 666 00:44:17,680 --> 00:44:22,280 Speaker 1: on Russia's behalf um was forgiven and Russia was allowed 667 00:44:22,320 --> 00:44:25,759 Speaker 1: to take out an additional loan. That doesn't happen. You know, 668 00:44:25,880 --> 00:44:29,880 Speaker 1: we don't well to what end, what's the reasoning? They're 669 00:44:29,960 --> 00:44:32,560 Speaker 1: very unusual. Also, in the days after the incident, it 670 00:44:32,560 --> 00:44:36,560 Speaker 1: turns out that George Tennant went to Moscow. If you 671 00:44:36,560 --> 00:44:38,440 Speaker 1: know that name doesn't ring a bell. He was the 672 00:44:38,480 --> 00:44:43,160 Speaker 1: first acting CIA director in history to go to the 673 00:44:43,239 --> 00:44:46,239 Speaker 1: Russian capital, which is a big deal. Um, And that 674 00:44:46,320 --> 00:44:49,680 Speaker 1: last part is definitely true, but it's also important to 675 00:44:49,840 --> 00:44:53,080 Speaker 1: this there's no causation here. Uh, these events are not 676 00:44:53,120 --> 00:44:59,480 Speaker 1: necessarily connected, but it sure doesn't make you think, doesn't it? Fellas, Yeah, 677 00:44:59,520 --> 00:45:02,200 Speaker 1: this is this is kind of the juicy stuff, right, 678 00:45:02,920 --> 00:45:08,919 Speaker 1: because George Tennant did travel to Moscow just eight days 679 00:45:09,040 --> 00:45:15,560 Speaker 1: later on August. It was officially an invitation from Russian 680 00:45:15,560 --> 00:45:20,719 Speaker 1: officials to discuss ways to counter international terrorism, but the 681 00:45:20,719 --> 00:45:25,279 Speaker 1: embassy refused to give any further details about this, and 682 00:45:26,160 --> 00:45:30,680 Speaker 1: Uncle Sam Stonewall at the media pretty hard core. So 683 00:45:30,719 --> 00:45:34,799 Speaker 1: now we as we said, this happened almost twenty years 684 00:45:34,800 --> 00:45:39,600 Speaker 1: ago to the day, we have the benefit of retrospect, 685 00:45:40,040 --> 00:45:43,560 Speaker 1: We have a lot of other intervening research, and some 686 00:45:43,680 --> 00:45:50,600 Speaker 1: of this later research has has has drawn conclusions, are 687 00:45:50,600 --> 00:45:54,880 Speaker 1: gathered evidence that's just disappointing enough to maybe sound like 688 00:45:54,960 --> 00:45:59,000 Speaker 1: the truth. So what if the curse wasn't using the 689 00:45:59,239 --> 00:46:03,480 Speaker 1: secret high tech what'd you call it, Matt, hyper classified? 690 00:46:03,600 --> 00:46:07,640 Speaker 1: It's been a favorite phrase. Yeah, these hyperclassified squal torpedoes. 691 00:46:07,920 --> 00:46:12,239 Speaker 1: But what if instead, as a very cash strapped navy, 692 00:46:12,280 --> 00:46:16,400 Speaker 1: they were relied on cheap, old fashioned technology. Because you know, 693 00:46:16,480 --> 00:46:18,839 Speaker 1: that's another line item that you don't have to add 694 00:46:18,880 --> 00:46:22,800 Speaker 1: to the budget. There's a former Royal Naval Engineering College 695 00:46:22,920 --> 00:46:28,560 Speaker 1: lecturer named Maurice Straddling, and he's also a torpedo designer, 696 00:46:28,719 --> 00:46:32,240 Speaker 1: which sounds like a really interesting hobby. It's probably a job, 697 00:46:32,440 --> 00:46:35,680 Speaker 1: but it's cool idea, it's a hobby. So he started 698 00:46:35,880 --> 00:46:38,839 Speaker 1: comparing and contrasting stuff. He looked at the data from 699 00:46:38,840 --> 00:46:43,040 Speaker 1: the Kursk disaster and it reminded him of this pretty 700 00:46:43,120 --> 00:46:48,160 Speaker 1: obscure story about a similar explosion aboard a British sub 701 00:46:48,360 --> 00:46:53,120 Speaker 1: in nineteen fifty five. I had never heard of this. 702 00:46:53,320 --> 00:46:57,279 Speaker 1: I think most people in the US, aside from professional 703 00:46:57,560 --> 00:47:02,400 Speaker 1: explosion investigators like Rachel Lance, have probably not heard of this. 704 00:47:03,040 --> 00:47:04,919 Speaker 1: That's so amazing that you mentioned that Ben, I would 705 00:47:04,960 --> 00:47:07,239 Speaker 1: That's what I was scratching. I was trying like I 706 00:47:07,280 --> 00:47:09,680 Speaker 1: had a thought, and then it went away and it 707 00:47:09,719 --> 00:47:13,759 Speaker 1: was Rachel Lance man for people that maybe don't listen 708 00:47:13,760 --> 00:47:15,600 Speaker 1: to the other show that Ben and I do, ridiculous history. 709 00:47:15,600 --> 00:47:18,200 Speaker 1: We interviewed Rachel Lance about the sinking of the SS 710 00:47:18,520 --> 00:47:20,360 Speaker 1: of the Huntley. Excuse me, it's not the s S 711 00:47:20,560 --> 00:47:23,440 Speaker 1: which was like a World War One no, I'm sorry, 712 00:47:23,560 --> 00:47:26,239 Speaker 1: a Civil War submarine that was made out of like 713 00:47:26,680 --> 00:47:28,400 Speaker 1: it's like a flint stone sub where you have to 714 00:47:28,400 --> 00:47:31,440 Speaker 1: crank it with your feet. And she is the foremost 715 00:47:31,480 --> 00:47:35,200 Speaker 1: expert on underwater explosions, which we joked was a very 716 00:47:35,280 --> 00:47:40,399 Speaker 1: very specific uh uh specialization, and she agreed. Um, but yeah, 717 00:47:40,440 --> 00:47:43,080 Speaker 1: I would love to hear her take on this. Well, 718 00:47:43,200 --> 00:47:45,240 Speaker 1: just just to jump back to that, Yeah, that's amazing. 719 00:47:45,280 --> 00:47:49,640 Speaker 1: I'm sorry that I missed that, guys. But the the 720 00:47:49,719 --> 00:47:52,800 Speaker 1: other disaster that we're talking about here, where there was 721 00:47:52,840 --> 00:47:58,759 Speaker 1: an explosion due to some kind of um malfunctioning torpedo. 722 00:47:59,120 --> 00:48:03,440 Speaker 1: Let's jump to a boat called the Site on the 723 00:48:03,680 --> 00:48:06,560 Speaker 1: s I d O N. There was some kind of 724 00:48:06,600 --> 00:48:12,880 Speaker 1: experimental torpedo on board and there was an explosion. Here's 725 00:48:12,880 --> 00:48:15,760 Speaker 1: the deal, though, this torpedo contained the substance that's thought 726 00:48:15,800 --> 00:48:19,719 Speaker 1: to have been within the curse, that ht P or 727 00:48:19,960 --> 00:48:24,000 Speaker 1: high test peroxide, and the thought was the crew of 728 00:48:24,080 --> 00:48:28,520 Speaker 1: the site on we're loading this torpedo and that's when 729 00:48:28,520 --> 00:48:33,960 Speaker 1: the explosion occurred. When this blast happened, thirteen men died. 730 00:48:34,600 --> 00:48:38,120 Speaker 1: So this is fascinating and this is something we know 731 00:48:38,760 --> 00:48:44,040 Speaker 1: again in retrospect, the some of the official findings of 732 00:48:44,080 --> 00:48:49,400 Speaker 1: this tragedy with the British sub didn't match the actual 733 00:48:49,520 --> 00:48:53,680 Speaker 1: findings carried out by that secret board of inquiry into 734 00:48:53,880 --> 00:48:59,239 Speaker 1: the disaster. Once this report was later became public, they 735 00:48:59,320 --> 00:49:05,160 Speaker 1: found at a stainless steel pipe carrying this high test 736 00:49:05,200 --> 00:49:10,520 Speaker 1: peroxide to the engine of the sub had burst and 737 00:49:11,440 --> 00:49:14,719 Speaker 1: something the public didn't know at the time. Uh, the 738 00:49:14,800 --> 00:49:21,080 Speaker 1: original investigation found incompetence on the part of the submarine crew. 739 00:49:21,719 --> 00:49:24,680 Speaker 1: Again of this of this UK boat the side on 740 00:49:25,160 --> 00:49:31,960 Speaker 1: they found that the torpedo had accidentally been started or ignited, 741 00:49:32,320 --> 00:49:34,840 Speaker 1: you know, before it was fired out of the sub, 742 00:49:35,360 --> 00:49:42,200 Speaker 1: which is kind of like a really uh, really terrible comparison. 743 00:49:42,600 --> 00:49:47,480 Speaker 1: Imagine torpedoes at this time in the fifties a little 744 00:49:47,480 --> 00:49:51,719 Speaker 1: bit similar to firecrackers, like you gotta get ignitum and 745 00:49:51,920 --> 00:49:54,879 Speaker 1: shoot them, but you're in a sub remember, you can't 746 00:49:54,960 --> 00:49:59,440 Speaker 1: run away, So the timing is very very important. So 747 00:49:59,480 --> 00:50:01,560 Speaker 1: the idea here is that there have been maybe a 748 00:50:01,600 --> 00:50:05,120 Speaker 1: little bit of a a cover up or at the 749 00:50:05,200 --> 00:50:10,000 Speaker 1: least publish you know, public reputation management on the part 750 00:50:10,000 --> 00:50:13,279 Speaker 1: of the UK government. And importantly to Straddling's point, the 751 00:50:13,360 --> 00:50:20,279 Speaker 1: torpedoes on the Curse also had HTP, leading Straddling to 752 00:50:20,360 --> 00:50:24,080 Speaker 1: believe that this proves a similar disaster led to the 753 00:50:24,160 --> 00:50:28,960 Speaker 1: destruction of this Russian submarine. So he is finding in 754 00:50:29,120 --> 00:50:33,920 Speaker 1: favor of uh an accident, you know, not not a 755 00:50:34,040 --> 00:50:38,480 Speaker 1: planned act of belligerents and the explosion of this practice 756 00:50:38,520 --> 00:50:41,799 Speaker 1: torpedo and the Curse, he says, set off this chain 757 00:50:41,920 --> 00:50:46,160 Speaker 1: reaction with the live warheads and this caused the explosion 758 00:50:46,360 --> 00:50:50,080 Speaker 1: that later sent the Curse to its watery grave. And 759 00:50:50,920 --> 00:50:53,840 Speaker 1: this is the exact story that if you go to 760 00:50:54,080 --> 00:50:58,719 Speaker 1: the Moscow Times, the independent news out of Russia, this 761 00:50:58,800 --> 00:51:02,880 Speaker 1: is the exact story that they have that was published 762 00:51:02,880 --> 00:51:07,080 Speaker 1: in August of twenty of what the true fate of 763 00:51:07,120 --> 00:51:17,080 Speaker 1: the curse was Independent Come on, maybe it is okay, well, uh, 764 00:51:17,120 --> 00:51:19,920 Speaker 1: what what do you think happened to the curse? Maybe 765 00:51:19,920 --> 00:51:25,200 Speaker 1: a free chemical accident, this enemy forces attack scenario. I 766 00:51:25,200 --> 00:51:27,600 Speaker 1: don't know what do you guys think? I do think 767 00:51:27,680 --> 00:51:33,799 Speaker 1: the plausible thing is perhaps that oops followed by boom boom. Uh. 768 00:51:33,800 --> 00:51:37,600 Speaker 1: That's that's that's me. But I don't know. Well, there's 769 00:51:37,680 --> 00:51:41,640 Speaker 1: there's a great point brought up by some former CIA 770 00:51:41,800 --> 00:51:45,600 Speaker 1: analysts and people familiar with the intelligence community. One guy 771 00:51:45,640 --> 00:51:48,520 Speaker 1: in particular stood out to me, a guy named Jeffrey Edmonds, 772 00:51:48,600 --> 00:51:52,040 Speaker 1: and he says, you know, something that's kind of tragic 773 00:51:52,080 --> 00:51:55,680 Speaker 1: he says, there's simply a tendency for accidents to happen 774 00:51:55,840 --> 00:51:59,000 Speaker 1: in Russia. And again we're not being anti Russian here. 775 00:51:59,000 --> 00:52:02,000 Speaker 1: This is what this guy say. Uh. He's saying that 776 00:52:02,480 --> 00:52:08,239 Speaker 1: Russia appears to have this process whereby they often combine 777 00:52:08,680 --> 00:52:13,120 Speaker 1: a willingness to take risk with outdated infrastructure that just 778 00:52:13,280 --> 00:52:18,200 Speaker 1: can't support that risk taking culture, and that this creates 779 00:52:18,200 --> 00:52:21,480 Speaker 1: an environment where accidents are more likely. This is a 780 00:52:21,560 --> 00:52:27,600 Speaker 1: longstanding observation slash accusation of the Russian military, which is, 781 00:52:27,960 --> 00:52:29,880 Speaker 1: you know, to put a fine point on it, and 782 00:52:29,920 --> 00:52:35,080 Speaker 1: to be brutally descriptive, they are the military of Russia 783 00:52:35,120 --> 00:52:38,840 Speaker 1: has been repeatedly accused of throwing bodies at a problem 784 00:52:39,040 --> 00:52:42,239 Speaker 1: until they consider that problem solved, you know what I mean. 785 00:52:42,280 --> 00:52:45,040 Speaker 1: That's why, That's why one of the most popular and 786 00:52:45,120 --> 00:52:49,280 Speaker 1: even plausible theory conspiracy theories in the world of space 787 00:52:49,320 --> 00:52:52,920 Speaker 1: exploration isn't whether people went to the Moon. It's how 788 00:52:52,920 --> 00:52:56,520 Speaker 1: many cosmonauts might have died before Yuri Gagarin got into 789 00:52:56,520 --> 00:53:05,120 Speaker 1: space and came back. Not to mention how many and 790 00:53:05,200 --> 00:53:09,040 Speaker 1: how guilty is any other country and including and especially 791 00:53:09,120 --> 00:53:13,160 Speaker 1: the United States, of course, even with the inflated budgets, 792 00:53:14,160 --> 00:53:18,400 Speaker 1: and you know the the amount of importance that's placed 793 00:53:18,440 --> 00:53:22,480 Speaker 1: on it culturally and publicly, no no question about it. 794 00:53:22,719 --> 00:53:26,440 Speaker 1: So let us know what you think happened there on 795 00:53:26,480 --> 00:53:30,120 Speaker 1: August tenth, two thousand, which it's crazy to realize that's 796 00:53:30,120 --> 00:53:34,040 Speaker 1: almost two decades gone now, But we want to hear 797 00:53:34,040 --> 00:53:35,759 Speaker 1: from you. You can find us on Facebook, you can 798 00:53:35,760 --> 00:53:38,080 Speaker 1: find us on Instagram, you can find us on Twitter. 799 00:53:38,600 --> 00:53:41,960 Speaker 1: We always love to recommend for the Facebook friendly folks 800 00:53:41,960 --> 00:53:46,279 Speaker 1: in the audience our community page. Here's where it gets crazy. Yeah, 801 00:53:46,320 --> 00:53:48,600 Speaker 1: for all you fbfs out there, you can be our 802 00:53:48,760 --> 00:53:52,600 Speaker 1: f b b ffs um but joining here's where it 803 00:53:52,640 --> 00:53:54,359 Speaker 1: gets crazy. All you have to do his name one 804 00:53:55,040 --> 00:53:58,200 Speaker 1: or three or you know, for all four of us, 805 00:53:58,320 --> 00:54:00,040 Speaker 1: or just you know, say something that lets us know 806 00:54:00,080 --> 00:54:02,279 Speaker 1: that you're a real human being with actual interest in 807 00:54:02,320 --> 00:54:05,200 Speaker 1: the topics that are discussed there, which ranged from specific 808 00:54:05,239 --> 00:54:08,040 Speaker 1: things around our new episode drops to just really free 809 00:54:08,080 --> 00:54:13,759 Speaker 1: willing conversation about anything and everything conspiracy realism related. If 810 00:54:13,760 --> 00:54:16,000 Speaker 1: you don't want to do that, or you want to 811 00:54:16,040 --> 00:54:17,960 Speaker 1: do that and you want to do more, you can 812 00:54:17,960 --> 00:54:21,240 Speaker 1: give us a call. Our number is one eight three 813 00:54:21,400 --> 00:54:32,279 Speaker 1: three st t TK Living Towards the finish line. But 814 00:54:32,360 --> 00:54:34,160 Speaker 1: I think it helped when you moved your hand age 815 00:54:35,000 --> 00:54:40,520 Speaker 1: like you're the conductor, Matt, You are the conductor. Uh yeah, 816 00:54:40,760 --> 00:54:42,440 Speaker 1: give us a call, leave us a message. We will 817 00:54:42,480 --> 00:54:45,200 Speaker 1: hear it. You might get on the air. As you 818 00:54:45,280 --> 00:54:49,920 Speaker 1: know by now, we're making a lot more episodes that 819 00:54:50,040 --> 00:54:52,839 Speaker 1: may include your voice. So send those things in tell 820 00:54:52,920 --> 00:54:56,200 Speaker 1: us what you think. Uh. A lot of times, the 821 00:54:56,680 --> 00:54:59,000 Speaker 1: more concise the better. But it doesn't have to be. 822 00:55:00,480 --> 00:55:01,920 Speaker 1: If you don't want to do any of that stuff, 823 00:55:02,360 --> 00:55:04,719 Speaker 1: but you still want to write to us, consider it 824 00:55:05,760 --> 00:55:08,400 Speaker 1: your plan of action to send us an email to 825 00:55:08,920 --> 00:55:31,040 Speaker 1: conspiracy at i heart radio dot com. Stuff they don't 826 00:55:31,040 --> 00:55:33,600 Speaker 1: want you to know is a production of I heart Radio. 827 00:55:33,920 --> 00:55:36,160 Speaker 1: For more podcasts from my heart Radio, visit the i 828 00:55:36,239 --> 00:55:39,160 Speaker 1: heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to 829 00:55:39,160 --> 00:55:40,000 Speaker 1: your favorite shows.