1 00:00:08,400 --> 00:00:10,080 Speaker 1: Do you place your left hand on the bay of 2 00:00:10,119 --> 00:00:12,520 Speaker 1: Bible and raise your right hand and repeat after me. 3 00:00:13,280 --> 00:00:20,760 Speaker 1: I solemnly swear. The jury trying it attended in Ferguson 4 00:00:20,880 --> 00:00:24,280 Speaker 1: and around the country were resisting. You're not makes no sense. 5 00:00:24,440 --> 00:00:27,680 Speaker 1: If it doesn't fit, you must equip judge. You are 6 00:00:27,720 --> 00:00:31,560 Speaker 1: the last line of reason in this case. Every one 7 00:00:31,600 --> 00:00:35,080 Speaker 1: of us took an all sap office and we're scorn 8 00:00:35,159 --> 00:00:39,960 Speaker 1: to uphold the constitution for Tenderfoot TV in Atlanta, this 9 00:00:40,600 --> 00:00:46,800 Speaker 1: is sworn. I'm your host, Philip Holloway. We got about 10 00:00:46,800 --> 00:00:49,000 Speaker 1: a half full parking lot right now. What was it 11 00:00:49,080 --> 00:00:52,080 Speaker 1: like all the night she disappeared? Very few cars. From 12 00:00:52,080 --> 00:00:55,440 Speaker 1: the video that we acquired, you don't get to capture 13 00:00:55,560 --> 00:00:58,800 Speaker 1: much of the parking lot, but descriptions or was that 14 00:00:58,880 --> 00:01:01,880 Speaker 1: it was a quiet n I don't Walmart pretty much 15 00:01:01,920 --> 00:01:05,200 Speaker 1: northwest and you can see the uh the backside of 16 00:01:05,200 --> 00:01:08,800 Speaker 1: the Chick fil A. That's the last general vicinity that 17 00:01:09,360 --> 00:01:21,760 Speaker 1: she was seen running from the Walmart. Hi, I'm your host, 18 00:01:21,920 --> 00:01:25,880 Speaker 1: Philip Holloway, and today we're looking into a very different 19 00:01:25,959 --> 00:01:28,960 Speaker 1: kind of missing person's case. As you may recall, at 20 00:01:29,000 --> 00:01:31,880 Speaker 1: the end of the Wideman murders, I posed the question that, 21 00:01:32,360 --> 00:01:35,640 Speaker 1: unlike in the Wideman murders, what would a cold case 22 00:01:35,680 --> 00:01:40,600 Speaker 1: investigation look like if investigators really put their shoulders into solving. 23 00:01:41,680 --> 00:01:47,520 Speaker 1: On September two, thousand thirteen, Tiffany Witten was caught shoplifting 24 00:01:47,640 --> 00:01:50,720 Speaker 1: at a Walmart in Cobb County, Georgia. When she was 25 00:01:50,760 --> 00:01:54,000 Speaker 1: stopped by the loss prevention officers, she ran away from 26 00:01:54,000 --> 00:01:57,800 Speaker 1: the Walmart, never to be seen again. Or was she. 27 00:01:58,880 --> 00:02:01,880 Speaker 1: We've just passed the four year mark and still there's 28 00:02:01,920 --> 00:02:04,960 Speaker 1: no sign of Tiffany. We're going to be exploring what 29 00:02:05,160 --> 00:02:08,720 Speaker 1: makes this case so hard to pin down, namely the 30 00:02:08,840 --> 00:02:12,280 Speaker 1: lack of physical evidence, the lack of witnesses, the lack 31 00:02:12,320 --> 00:02:16,920 Speaker 1: of cooperation, the delay in reporting, and the high possibility 32 00:02:17,280 --> 00:02:34,239 Speaker 1: of foul play. This is sworn. So let's walk while 33 00:02:34,280 --> 00:02:35,880 Speaker 1: we're talking. Let's take a look at I want to 34 00:02:35,880 --> 00:02:41,120 Speaker 1: see for myself what these doors look like. Um, that 35 00:02:41,320 --> 00:02:47,119 Speaker 1: she came out of. That's a that's a fairly typical 36 00:02:47,200 --> 00:02:50,519 Speaker 1: Walmart sort of entrance and exit. But it is a 37 00:02:50,600 --> 00:02:55,440 Speaker 1: large door, right and or they're surveillance video cameras right 38 00:02:55,480 --> 00:02:58,919 Speaker 1: there at that door, uh manner from inside. Yes, there 39 00:02:58,919 --> 00:03:02,680 Speaker 1: were cameras and the doors are those automatic you know, 40 00:03:02,800 --> 00:03:07,480 Speaker 1: the motion centers, and you've come up Fort Belden. So 41 00:03:07,560 --> 00:03:10,200 Speaker 1: how far out of the door did she get before 42 00:03:10,280 --> 00:03:14,760 Speaker 1: she was apprehended by the store security. She wasn't out 43 00:03:14,800 --> 00:03:17,639 Speaker 1: the door yet. She was at the door, um, and 44 00:03:17,760 --> 00:03:20,919 Speaker 1: had not made her way out that that set of 45 00:03:21,000 --> 00:03:25,000 Speaker 1: doors at the time that she was approached by security 46 00:03:25,520 --> 00:03:29,519 Speaker 1: and they kind of got between her and the in 47 00:03:29,639 --> 00:03:33,240 Speaker 1: the parking lot. This is John Dawes, the lead investigator 48 00:03:33,320 --> 00:03:36,200 Speaker 1: of the cold case unit in Cobb County, Georgia, and 49 00:03:36,240 --> 00:03:40,040 Speaker 1: now the lead investigator in the Tiffany Witten case. Mason 50 00:03:40,080 --> 00:03:41,920 Speaker 1: and I decided to go down with John to the 51 00:03:41,920 --> 00:03:45,120 Speaker 1: Walmart where Tiffany was last seen in order to get 52 00:03:45,120 --> 00:03:50,200 Speaker 1: a better feel for the area. Yeah, what was described 53 00:03:50,200 --> 00:03:55,200 Speaker 1: by Walmarts that she was going, uh, pretty much northwest 54 00:03:55,240 --> 00:03:57,880 Speaker 1: and you can see the uh, the backside of the 55 00:03:57,960 --> 00:04:01,920 Speaker 1: Chick fil A. That's the last general vicinity that that 56 00:04:02,000 --> 00:04:08,560 Speaker 1: she was seen running from the Walmart head headed towards 57 00:04:08,560 --> 00:04:10,200 Speaker 1: the back side of Chick fil A. And where she 58 00:04:10,240 --> 00:04:14,280 Speaker 1: went in you can see there's tree growth now, um, 59 00:04:14,320 --> 00:04:17,440 Speaker 1: so you could lose sight of her pretty quickly. Is 60 00:04:17,480 --> 00:04:19,159 Speaker 1: that I hope that we're looking at up there on 61 00:04:19,160 --> 00:04:21,400 Speaker 1: the top of the hills down where she worked. She 62 00:04:21,920 --> 00:04:23,880 Speaker 1: used to work at that I hoop. It's actually on 63 00:04:23,920 --> 00:04:26,080 Speaker 1: the other side of Cop Parker from here, but yes, 64 00:04:26,160 --> 00:04:29,719 Speaker 1: that's the eyehop for the people who are listening to this, John, 65 00:04:29,760 --> 00:04:34,120 Speaker 1: can you describe what co Parkway is and how big 66 00:04:34,160 --> 00:04:38,080 Speaker 1: it is? Uh? Cup Parkway is uh two lanes south 67 00:04:38,160 --> 00:04:42,480 Speaker 1: and two lanes north with a center turn lane between. Uh. 68 00:04:42,600 --> 00:04:47,440 Speaker 1: So it's a wide state route that comes through Marietta 69 00:04:48,720 --> 00:04:52,000 Speaker 1: and normally there's there's a good bit of traffic on 70 00:04:52,480 --> 00:04:55,279 Speaker 1: on Cob Parker. Part of the case that would have 71 00:04:55,320 --> 00:04:59,479 Speaker 1: been really really good to have is all the video 72 00:04:59,560 --> 00:05:02,800 Speaker 1: from all the his neighboring businesses. UM. I was sure 73 00:05:02,920 --> 00:05:04,560 Speaker 1: that most of them, if not all of them, have 74 00:05:04,720 --> 00:05:09,120 Speaker 1: their own systems. Uh. You're talking about probably twenty twenty 75 00:05:09,200 --> 00:05:12,120 Speaker 1: businesses that we could have gotten footage from, including Chick 76 00:05:12,160 --> 00:05:15,479 Speaker 1: fil a. UM. But the problem that we had is 77 00:05:15,520 --> 00:05:18,760 Speaker 1: the delay in reporting. This happened in mid September and 78 00:05:18,960 --> 00:05:22,960 Speaker 1: was reporting in January, so UH, that time frame pretty 79 00:05:23,040 --> 00:05:26,680 Speaker 1: much absolves the opportunity to get video from these commercial businesses. 80 00:05:29,160 --> 00:05:32,280 Speaker 1: John Dawes brings up one of the biggest obstacles in 81 00:05:32,279 --> 00:05:36,400 Speaker 1: this case, several months went by before Tiffany was actually 82 00:05:36,440 --> 00:05:40,160 Speaker 1: reported missing by her mother, and this created lots of 83 00:05:40,200 --> 00:05:43,480 Speaker 1: different problems for law enforcement in terms of creating an 84 00:05:43,520 --> 00:05:49,000 Speaker 1: accurate timeline and in obtaining surveillance footage from businesses before 85 00:05:49,160 --> 00:05:52,400 Speaker 1: it's erased. So you may be wondering, if a young 86 00:05:52,440 --> 00:05:56,640 Speaker 1: girl ran out towards Cole Parkway, a major thoroughfare in 87 00:05:56,680 --> 00:05:59,960 Speaker 1: a suburb just north of Atlanta, and was never seen again, 88 00:06:00,400 --> 00:06:03,480 Speaker 1: why did it take so long to report her as missing? 89 00:06:04,560 --> 00:06:08,599 Speaker 1: Lisa Daniels, My daughter is Tiffany Witten, who disappeared in 90 00:06:08,680 --> 00:06:14,600 Speaker 1: Marietta from the Walmart on Cole Parkway on September. So 91 00:06:14,680 --> 00:06:17,719 Speaker 1: we just passed the four year mark since anyone last 92 00:06:17,720 --> 00:06:20,039 Speaker 1: saw Tiffany. How oh was your daughter at the time 93 00:06:20,080 --> 00:06:23,920 Speaker 1: for her disappearance? She was where she well, she lived 94 00:06:23,920 --> 00:06:27,359 Speaker 1: in Marietta at the time, um or Powder Spring I 95 00:06:27,360 --> 00:06:29,440 Speaker 1: think it might have been Powder Springs area. It's kind 96 00:06:29,440 --> 00:06:36,640 Speaker 1: of hard to say. She was a little nomadic. She 97 00:06:37,000 --> 00:06:40,599 Speaker 1: was a drug addict, so she moved around, stayed where 98 00:06:40,600 --> 00:06:43,840 Speaker 1: she could. I think was kind of the way most 99 00:06:43,839 --> 00:06:48,160 Speaker 1: of these people, um live is wherever they can find 100 00:06:48,160 --> 00:06:52,880 Speaker 1: a place. She would say to me that she wanted 101 00:06:52,880 --> 00:06:55,279 Speaker 1: to get clean, that she wanted to do better, she 102 00:06:55,360 --> 00:06:59,440 Speaker 1: wanted to be a better person. Um. But she also 103 00:06:59,560 --> 00:07:01,840 Speaker 1: stated to me that the only time she felt normal 104 00:07:02,279 --> 00:07:04,960 Speaker 1: is when she was high, and that was sad to 105 00:07:05,000 --> 00:07:07,040 Speaker 1: me because it made me feel like there was probably 106 00:07:07,080 --> 00:07:10,840 Speaker 1: some underlying mental illness there um that we weren't aware of. 107 00:07:11,640 --> 00:07:14,560 Speaker 1: But we as a family did everything we could to 108 00:07:14,600 --> 00:07:18,080 Speaker 1: try to help her get clean, rehab and just everything 109 00:07:18,120 --> 00:07:22,000 Speaker 1: that we could possibly think of, and nothing seemed to work. 110 00:07:22,080 --> 00:07:24,880 Speaker 1: She get clean for a little while, and then as 111 00:07:24,920 --> 00:07:27,200 Speaker 1: soon as she would run into somebody that had a supply, 112 00:07:27,440 --> 00:07:34,080 Speaker 1: she'd be right back into it. What was her drug 113 00:07:34,120 --> 00:07:37,760 Speaker 1: of choice meth and heroin. I thinks she started out 114 00:07:37,960 --> 00:07:41,120 Speaker 1: like a lot of people do with the opioids. UM, 115 00:07:41,200 --> 00:07:44,400 Speaker 1: it was oxy and then I don't know who introduced 116 00:07:44,400 --> 00:07:46,720 Speaker 1: her to meth, but at some point she was introduced 117 00:07:46,760 --> 00:07:52,440 Speaker 1: to heroin and UM that became probably her primary. So 118 00:07:52,560 --> 00:07:57,840 Speaker 1: what happened that caused the delay in reporting her disappearance, Well, 119 00:07:57,960 --> 00:08:00,400 Speaker 1: like I said, she was nomadic and she did not 120 00:08:00,480 --> 00:08:03,000 Speaker 1: always stay in touch with us, so when she was using, 121 00:08:04,120 --> 00:08:06,360 Speaker 1: we wouldn't hear from her. It could be weeks, it 122 00:08:06,360 --> 00:08:11,240 Speaker 1: could be a couple of months. So initially was I worried, Yeah, 123 00:08:11,240 --> 00:08:13,720 Speaker 1: I worried about her every day, but I wasn't worried 124 00:08:13,800 --> 00:08:16,560 Speaker 1: that she was missing or that something had happened to her. 125 00:08:16,600 --> 00:08:18,840 Speaker 1: I was used to not hearing for her from her 126 00:08:18,880 --> 00:08:21,400 Speaker 1: for a couple of months. But when the holidays came 127 00:08:21,440 --> 00:08:23,960 Speaker 1: around and I didn't hear from her at all, that 128 00:08:24,080 --> 00:08:28,200 Speaker 1: was not That was not normal. And um so after 129 00:08:28,240 --> 00:08:31,400 Speaker 1: the holidays we did go down and follow missing person's report. 130 00:08:32,559 --> 00:08:37,160 Speaker 1: To Lisa, this was an abnormal behavior. Admittedly, she'd got 131 00:08:37,200 --> 00:08:39,600 Speaker 1: as long as two months without hearing from Tiffany before, 132 00:08:40,200 --> 00:08:42,800 Speaker 1: but after that time had gone by and the holidays 133 00:08:42,800 --> 00:08:45,520 Speaker 1: came and went, Lisa felt this had escalated past typical 134 00:08:45,600 --> 00:08:49,760 Speaker 1: drug user behavior. Tiffany was last seen in September. Lisa 135 00:08:49,800 --> 00:08:55,320 Speaker 1: reported her missing in January. It's bizarre. It's bizarre. Pretty 136 00:08:55,360 --> 00:08:58,199 Speaker 1: much my entire high school has either you know, I'm 137 00:08:58,200 --> 00:09:02,760 Speaker 1: graduating class is either guy d of whole in some 138 00:09:02,880 --> 00:09:06,840 Speaker 1: sort of treatment or recovery or legal consequences. But no 139 00:09:06,920 --> 00:09:11,200 Speaker 1: one's ever just disappeared. This is Aaron Warren, a close 140 00:09:11,240 --> 00:09:14,000 Speaker 1: friend of Tiffany's. You know a few of us have 141 00:09:14,120 --> 00:09:16,920 Speaker 1: gone missing from time to time, because we're out there 142 00:09:16,920 --> 00:09:21,480 Speaker 1: in active addiction. I did myself, but you eventually reach surface. 143 00:09:22,760 --> 00:09:25,080 Speaker 1: She's known Tiffany for a long time and could offer 144 00:09:25,120 --> 00:09:28,520 Speaker 1: perspective on the drug addiction that apparently ran Tiffany's life. 145 00:09:29,280 --> 00:09:32,240 Speaker 1: Aaron can talk about Tiffany's addiction because she can relate. 146 00:09:32,800 --> 00:09:36,160 Speaker 1: But when the time came and Aaron got clean, Tiffany didn't, 147 00:09:36,760 --> 00:09:39,200 Speaker 1: and that caused them to drift apart. So I've known 148 00:09:39,280 --> 00:09:44,640 Speaker 1: Tiffany actually since middle school, and we've been you know, friends, 149 00:09:44,640 --> 00:09:47,760 Speaker 1: on and off throughout middle school. And when I say 150 00:09:47,800 --> 00:09:52,920 Speaker 1: on an office, you know, I'm I'm in recovering myself. 151 00:09:53,000 --> 00:09:56,599 Speaker 1: So you know, addiction takes you different places and you 152 00:09:56,640 --> 00:10:00,120 Speaker 1: don't always hang around the same group of people. But HM, 153 00:10:01,280 --> 00:10:04,400 Speaker 1: any time we were hanging out throughout middle school and 154 00:10:04,480 --> 00:10:08,120 Speaker 1: high school, we were definitely partying together, which I always 155 00:10:08,160 --> 00:10:12,360 Speaker 1: involved alcohol drugs. And then I got sober in TWN 156 00:10:13,200 --> 00:10:16,440 Speaker 1: and not too long after that I reconnected with Tiffany. 157 00:10:17,800 --> 00:10:21,319 Speaker 1: She had gotten out of prison and um, you know 158 00:10:21,320 --> 00:10:25,280 Speaker 1: it was was sober for a period of time, and 159 00:10:25,360 --> 00:10:30,079 Speaker 1: so we attended meetings together and we're once again a 160 00:10:30,120 --> 00:10:33,520 Speaker 1: part of one another's lives, but in a more healthier 161 00:10:33,720 --> 00:10:39,800 Speaker 1: place for each of us. So when she relapsed, you know, 162 00:10:39,880 --> 00:10:44,679 Speaker 1: I I'm still sober today. So I tried to you know, 163 00:10:44,720 --> 00:10:47,360 Speaker 1: and see her at meetings, meet her at meanings and 164 00:10:47,520 --> 00:10:50,680 Speaker 1: tried to talk to her, but she was so strung 165 00:10:50,720 --> 00:10:53,520 Speaker 1: out on meth again, you just couldn't get through to her. 166 00:10:53,960 --> 00:10:56,440 Speaker 1: I don't remember if she you know, maybe she went 167 00:10:56,480 --> 00:11:00,160 Speaker 1: through our side in prison, but I don't recall her 168 00:11:00,200 --> 00:11:03,600 Speaker 1: going to rehab and when she got out, you know, 169 00:11:03,960 --> 00:11:06,600 Speaker 1: at that point, I don't know why she couldn't go 170 00:11:06,640 --> 00:11:09,800 Speaker 1: back home, you know, if she lost custody of her daughter. 171 00:11:09,840 --> 00:11:13,680 Speaker 1: But she was actually living with a a mutual friend 172 00:11:14,520 --> 00:11:18,000 Speaker 1: for a period of time before she relapsed, mutual friend 173 00:11:18,320 --> 00:11:21,440 Speaker 1: that we also went to school with, and then he 174 00:11:21,720 --> 00:11:24,640 Speaker 1: was a member of you know, recovery also at the time. 175 00:11:25,440 --> 00:11:29,080 Speaker 1: I don't think it was that long before her disappearance. 176 00:11:29,120 --> 00:11:31,839 Speaker 1: I'm not sure. I saw her at a at a 177 00:11:31,920 --> 00:11:37,120 Speaker 1: a a meeting and that that that was literally our last, 178 00:11:37,720 --> 00:11:40,560 Speaker 1: my last contact with her. She was so strong out, 179 00:11:41,480 --> 00:11:44,920 Speaker 1: you know, high at that time, very emaciated and finn 180 00:11:46,640 --> 00:11:51,240 Speaker 1: um and and just telling me some crazy story. I 181 00:11:51,360 --> 00:11:53,760 Speaker 1: just asked her, like, do you want help? Are you ready? 182 00:11:53,800 --> 00:11:56,560 Speaker 1: To like come off of the stuff again, because you know, 183 00:11:56,760 --> 00:11:59,160 Speaker 1: I'll help you do that, but I can't like enable 184 00:11:59,240 --> 00:12:02,120 Speaker 1: you because she was needing somewhere to stay. No, was 185 00:12:02,200 --> 00:12:04,319 Speaker 1: kind of the crisis at the moment that she was 186 00:12:04,360 --> 00:12:08,240 Speaker 1: back on drugs. But turns out she's like stolen stuff 187 00:12:08,280 --> 00:12:11,160 Speaker 1: from her roommate who was also a co worker, and 188 00:12:11,480 --> 00:12:15,000 Speaker 1: that's why her her roommate kicked her out. That's the 189 00:12:15,040 --> 00:12:18,439 Speaker 1: same coworker she worked with it uh at I hop 190 00:12:19,440 --> 00:12:23,240 Speaker 1: that's actually been interviewed several times for her story. You know, 191 00:12:24,160 --> 00:12:27,120 Speaker 1: the police report and all that she got fired from 192 00:12:27,120 --> 00:12:29,719 Speaker 1: I Hot for stealing from there too, So you can 193 00:12:29,760 --> 00:12:32,360 Speaker 1: just kind of see her pattern with this. We also 194 00:12:32,440 --> 00:12:35,800 Speaker 1: asked Aaron about Ashley Coddle, Tiffany's boyfriend at the time 195 00:12:36,160 --> 00:12:38,040 Speaker 1: and the last person she was with on the night 196 00:12:38,160 --> 00:12:41,160 Speaker 1: that she disappeared on the surveillance tape footage from Walmart. 197 00:12:41,280 --> 00:12:47,600 Speaker 1: They walk around the store together. He like pulled up 198 00:12:47,679 --> 00:12:50,240 Speaker 1: that night outside of the meeting when I was trying 199 00:12:50,320 --> 00:12:52,320 Speaker 1: to talk to her and ask her she wanted help, 200 00:12:53,280 --> 00:12:56,800 Speaker 1: and he picked her up. Um. I mean I heard 201 00:12:56,880 --> 00:13:00,320 Speaker 1: from people that ran with them that he had very 202 00:13:00,320 --> 00:13:06,080 Speaker 1: bad temper. Sketch absolute sketch. I mean, they're both strung 203 00:13:06,120 --> 00:13:10,160 Speaker 1: out on meth. And you know, anytime anybody's on math, 204 00:13:10,200 --> 00:13:18,760 Speaker 1: they're sketchy, they're flighty shifty. You get this feeling, I'm 205 00:13:18,800 --> 00:13:21,040 Speaker 1: trying to describe it, like when someone's on the math 206 00:13:21,160 --> 00:13:23,680 Speaker 1: and they're in the same room as you. Yeah, it's 207 00:13:23,720 --> 00:13:27,640 Speaker 1: like being around someone who's possessed, Like you instantly feel 208 00:13:28,480 --> 00:13:30,880 Speaker 1: I've got to get away from this person. It's scary, 209 00:13:30,880 --> 00:13:35,880 Speaker 1: it's it's un it's unsettling. And on the inside, if 210 00:13:35,920 --> 00:13:39,720 Speaker 1: you are locked up in Cobb County gel they're always 211 00:13:39,800 --> 00:13:42,120 Speaker 1: a group of tweakers that are locked up in there, 212 00:13:42,160 --> 00:13:45,280 Speaker 1: and all of the gossip, you know what I mean, 213 00:13:45,320 --> 00:13:47,240 Speaker 1: in latest news that goes on in the in the 214 00:13:47,280 --> 00:13:52,360 Speaker 1: meth underworld. So the fact that nobody has come forward 215 00:13:52,440 --> 00:13:57,200 Speaker 1: with information, I mean, I feel like she she she 216 00:13:57,360 --> 00:14:01,640 Speaker 1: has to be dead. I was arrested many times when 217 00:14:01,640 --> 00:14:05,280 Speaker 1: I was an active addiction, and but I would be 218 00:14:05,360 --> 00:14:08,520 Speaker 1: in there with a bunch of the you know, the 219 00:14:08,520 --> 00:14:11,920 Speaker 1: the column tweakers. You know, one time in particular, they 220 00:14:11,920 --> 00:14:14,920 Speaker 1: were talking about, oh, she knows something about the body 221 00:14:14,960 --> 00:14:18,439 Speaker 1: that was done somewhere. Now this is unrelated to Tiffany, 222 00:14:19,040 --> 00:14:23,320 Speaker 1: but you hear you hear the gossip in jail. You 223 00:14:23,360 --> 00:14:26,040 Speaker 1: know what I mean because I've heard it myself as 224 00:14:26,080 --> 00:14:35,600 Speaker 1: an innate. I mean, somebody knows something. It's like, Okay, 225 00:14:35,680 --> 00:14:38,520 Speaker 1: was she picked up in sex traffic? I feel like 226 00:14:38,600 --> 00:14:41,400 Speaker 1: that and and and you know, being killed or the 227 00:14:41,440 --> 00:14:47,040 Speaker 1: two most likely outcomes. Okay. The IHP waitress, the one 228 00:14:47,040 --> 00:14:51,240 Speaker 1: in Marietta that Tiffity worked out, got fired from forestaing. 229 00:14:52,560 --> 00:14:56,680 Speaker 1: I spoke with her, um like, face to face. I 230 00:14:56,720 --> 00:14:59,080 Speaker 1: can't tell you where or when. I mean, it was 231 00:15:00,280 --> 00:15:03,880 Speaker 1: that closer to the times disappeared. And I mean she 232 00:15:04,000 --> 00:15:08,359 Speaker 1: told me straight up, like Ashley came there after her disappearance, 233 00:15:08,560 --> 00:15:14,720 Speaker 1: looking visibly shaken, you know what I mean, like distraught, shifty, 234 00:15:15,120 --> 00:15:17,760 Speaker 1: what you would expect for someone that's til meth. But 235 00:15:17,840 --> 00:15:21,280 Speaker 1: she said like more so and was acting really weird, 236 00:15:22,400 --> 00:15:28,360 Speaker 1: so I mean just her. And then you know, it 237 00:15:28,480 --> 00:15:30,960 Speaker 1: was reported that she said, well, why don't you call 238 00:15:31,040 --> 00:15:33,000 Speaker 1: Tiffany and he pulled out her cell phone and said, 239 00:15:33,040 --> 00:15:37,640 Speaker 1: because I have it. So then if a message wasn't 240 00:15:38,640 --> 00:15:42,440 Speaker 1: a month later to her brother whoever, for Happy Birthday? Okay, 241 00:15:42,480 --> 00:15:45,840 Speaker 1: why the funking that being investigated? Had they looked at 242 00:15:45,880 --> 00:15:48,080 Speaker 1: her phone records, you know what I mean, Like, why 243 00:15:48,080 --> 00:15:51,720 Speaker 1: isn't this stuff being tracked? The birthday message that Aaron 244 00:15:51,800 --> 00:15:54,000 Speaker 1: is referring to is a message that was sent from 245 00:15:54,000 --> 00:15:59,760 Speaker 1: Tiffany's Facebook to her half brother Blake around January. According 246 00:15:59,800 --> 00:16:02,760 Speaker 1: to an interview Blake did in two thousand sixteen, Tiffany 247 00:16:02,800 --> 00:16:05,520 Speaker 1: also called him around his birthday that year, using her 248 00:16:05,560 --> 00:16:09,600 Speaker 1: special nickname for him, Mudbug. Keep in mind, this was 249 00:16:09,640 --> 00:16:12,760 Speaker 1: just about four months since she was last seen. More 250 00:16:12,760 --> 00:16:16,440 Speaker 1: on this later. When you have two drug addicts in 251 00:16:16,480 --> 00:16:21,800 Speaker 1: a relationship, the codependence is so strong that you're not 252 00:16:21,840 --> 00:16:25,240 Speaker 1: going to separate no matter what. So for the fact 253 00:16:25,320 --> 00:16:28,200 Speaker 1: that actually claims she just disappeared into the night, I 254 00:16:28,240 --> 00:16:34,480 Speaker 1: don't fucking believe. You know, toxic codependent relationships just as 255 00:16:34,520 --> 00:16:38,040 Speaker 1: strong as drugs and alcohol. The effect is the same 256 00:16:38,080 --> 00:16:42,360 Speaker 1: for someone, you know what I mean. So if you're 257 00:16:42,360 --> 00:16:45,080 Speaker 1: in that type of relationship and you have to have 258 00:16:45,320 --> 00:16:48,320 Speaker 1: that person to be okay, you're not gonna let them 259 00:16:48,320 --> 00:16:55,320 Speaker 1: wander off into the night. There's just not Because humans, individually, 260 00:16:55,440 --> 00:17:02,600 Speaker 1: we're we're can be unpredictable to an extent, But when 261 00:17:02,640 --> 00:17:06,600 Speaker 1: you add drugs into the months, there's no way to 262 00:17:06,600 --> 00:17:10,560 Speaker 1: predict outcomes. When Lisa found out that her daughter was 263 00:17:10,600 --> 00:17:13,520 Speaker 1: shoplifting for the Walmart at the time she disappeared, her 264 00:17:13,560 --> 00:17:16,320 Speaker 1: first thought was that maybe she was laying low knowing 265 00:17:16,359 --> 00:17:19,080 Speaker 1: she was in trouble. It didn't seem like such a 266 00:17:19,119 --> 00:17:22,639 Speaker 1: crazy idea, especially given the crowd Tiffany ran with and 267 00:17:22,680 --> 00:17:26,320 Speaker 1: her obvious drug usage. On that night, Mason Paine and 268 00:17:26,359 --> 00:17:28,879 Speaker 1: I went to visit Lisa and talk with her about 269 00:17:28,880 --> 00:17:32,080 Speaker 1: her daughter's case. As part of Lisa's effort not to 270 00:17:32,160 --> 00:17:35,040 Speaker 1: let this case rest, she never turns down any interview 271 00:17:35,280 --> 00:17:39,640 Speaker 1: or opportunity to speak about Tiffany. There's no evidence that. 272 00:17:39,720 --> 00:17:45,520 Speaker 1: I mean, initially, my thought was I was suspicious of him. Initially, however, 273 00:17:46,359 --> 00:17:50,760 Speaker 1: I did think, well, you know, she she did get 274 00:17:50,760 --> 00:17:53,560 Speaker 1: caught shop loveding. She knows she's going to be in trouble. 275 00:17:54,880 --> 00:17:57,560 Speaker 1: So my initial thought, like I said to you before, 276 00:17:57,720 --> 00:18:01,320 Speaker 1: was she's laying low, she's out with one of her friends. 277 00:18:02,720 --> 00:18:05,920 Speaker 1: She just she doesn't want to face the music. Um. 278 00:18:06,080 --> 00:18:10,239 Speaker 1: Then I started thinking, what has something happened? What if 279 00:18:10,240 --> 00:18:14,200 Speaker 1: she ran behind behind Sam's and she fell, she got hurt, 280 00:18:14,480 --> 00:18:17,400 Speaker 1: she you know, hit her head, something happened back there. 281 00:18:18,240 --> 00:18:22,560 Speaker 1: And but they've searched all back there and nothing. So, um, 282 00:18:22,640 --> 00:18:26,280 Speaker 1: I don't think that any anything happened in that immediate area. 283 00:18:26,680 --> 00:18:31,320 Speaker 1: I do believe and have always believed, that they somehow 284 00:18:31,480 --> 00:18:34,399 Speaker 1: met back up that night, whether it was you know, 285 00:18:34,560 --> 00:18:38,639 Speaker 1: around that area, maybe at one Stein's. He lived close by. 286 00:18:38,880 --> 00:18:40,879 Speaker 1: She knew a lot of people in the area. You know. 287 00:18:40,920 --> 00:18:43,360 Speaker 1: I told Tom when we first met, and I think 288 00:18:43,400 --> 00:18:45,440 Speaker 1: the first day that we met, you know, I said, 289 00:18:45,720 --> 00:18:47,240 Speaker 1: you look out that one I said, look out that 290 00:18:47,280 --> 00:18:49,160 Speaker 1: window right behind us. What do you see out there? 291 00:18:49,720 --> 00:18:52,280 Speaker 1: He said, trees? Woods, And I said, you know what 292 00:18:52,400 --> 00:18:56,200 Speaker 1: I see somewhere? My daughter could be everywhere I look 293 00:18:56,280 --> 00:18:59,200 Speaker 1: every time I go to the lake, you know, I'm i'm. 294 00:18:59,280 --> 00:19:00,800 Speaker 1: We went to the lake one day. This was the 295 00:19:00,840 --> 00:19:03,520 Speaker 1: first summer that we had our boat, and we were 296 00:19:03,560 --> 00:19:05,800 Speaker 1: in a cove close to Bethany Bridge as a matter 297 00:19:05,800 --> 00:19:08,159 Speaker 1: of fact, and we were pulling up anchor to go 298 00:19:08,240 --> 00:19:11,239 Speaker 1: back to the marina, and the anchor was stuck and 299 00:19:11,280 --> 00:19:13,840 Speaker 1: so my husband's you know, pulling and tugg and he said, oh, 300 00:19:13,840 --> 00:19:17,680 Speaker 1: there's something on the anchor. And then my daughter says, um, 301 00:19:18,320 --> 00:19:22,399 Speaker 1: I hope it's not a body. And immediately I thought, 302 00:19:23,240 --> 00:19:29,800 Speaker 1: would that be the craziest thing. I mean, crazy doesn't 303 00:19:29,800 --> 00:19:32,640 Speaker 1: even begin to describe it. But I cannot even tell 304 00:19:32,640 --> 00:19:34,879 Speaker 1: you how sick I felt when he was pulling on 305 00:19:34,960 --> 00:19:37,320 Speaker 1: that rope to see what was at the other end. 306 00:19:37,600 --> 00:19:40,040 Speaker 1: It was an anchor. It was another anchor that we 307 00:19:40,160 --> 00:19:42,440 Speaker 1: pulled up with, you know, part of a rope on it. 308 00:19:42,560 --> 00:19:44,879 Speaker 1: But my gut tells me that she hit out for 309 00:19:44,880 --> 00:19:47,639 Speaker 1: a little while until the police were gone. You know, 310 00:19:47,760 --> 00:19:50,680 Speaker 1: she ran over behind Sam's. They did not give chase, 311 00:19:50,760 --> 00:19:52,760 Speaker 1: They did not take off after her. They had her first, 312 00:19:52,760 --> 00:19:56,840 Speaker 1: they knew who she was. So my gut instinct is 313 00:19:56,880 --> 00:19:59,600 Speaker 1: that she hit out for a while until you know 314 00:19:59,680 --> 00:20:02,920 Speaker 1: that he was off, so to speak. And then when 315 00:20:03,320 --> 00:20:05,840 Speaker 1: Ashley came back to get that truck, she was she 316 00:20:05,960 --> 00:20:08,320 Speaker 1: was in it or buy it or near it, or 317 00:20:09,800 --> 00:20:13,040 Speaker 1: she was there. They they hooked back up that night. 318 00:20:13,080 --> 00:20:16,400 Speaker 1: I have no doubt about that. The truth never changes. 319 00:20:16,960 --> 00:20:20,400 Speaker 1: So if, if truly she ran out of that Walmart 320 00:20:20,520 --> 00:20:23,200 Speaker 1: and he never laid eyes on her again, why he 321 00:20:23,320 --> 00:20:26,480 Speaker 1: told people, Oh yes, she got arrested, Oh yes, she 322 00:20:26,520 --> 00:20:29,640 Speaker 1: went to rehab. Oh yeah, we were arguing and she 323 00:20:29,880 --> 00:20:32,240 Speaker 1: you know, she walked off and I don't know where 324 00:20:32,280 --> 00:20:38,040 Speaker 1: she went. There's no reason to lie unless something happened 325 00:20:38,040 --> 00:20:39,800 Speaker 1: that he doesn't want anyone to know about. There's no 326 00:20:39,840 --> 00:20:42,320 Speaker 1: other reason to lie. I mean, if he had, if 327 00:20:42,320 --> 00:20:45,439 Speaker 1: he had stuck with the same story that I swear 328 00:20:45,520 --> 00:20:49,000 Speaker 1: to you, she ran out the door. I did not 329 00:20:49,119 --> 00:20:52,960 Speaker 1: see her again period. So you can ask me, you know, 330 00:20:53,640 --> 00:20:56,280 Speaker 1: any way you want, or try to trip me up 331 00:20:56,359 --> 00:20:59,080 Speaker 1: or I never saw her again. He but he hasn't 332 00:20:59,119 --> 00:21:03,760 Speaker 1: done that. He hasn't done that. I mean he's kind 333 00:21:03,760 --> 00:21:07,119 Speaker 1: of doing that now because he's on the hot seat. 334 00:21:07,200 --> 00:21:09,760 Speaker 1: But he didn't do that in the beginning. I did 335 00:21:09,840 --> 00:21:12,000 Speaker 1: not get a lot of cooperation in the beginning on 336 00:21:12,040 --> 00:21:15,840 Speaker 1: this case. And you probably saw that with Chase Master's 337 00:21:15,880 --> 00:21:19,360 Speaker 1: case as well. It was the yeah, so if you're 338 00:21:19,400 --> 00:21:22,080 Speaker 1: not a if you're not a you know, blonde hair, 339 00:21:22,160 --> 00:21:26,479 Speaker 1: blue eye, co ed um or a child obviously you know, 340 00:21:26,520 --> 00:21:29,560 Speaker 1: any child, they're gonna go looking for. But the bottom line, 341 00:21:29,560 --> 00:21:31,400 Speaker 1: and it was the same thing I had told my mom, 342 00:21:31,400 --> 00:21:33,600 Speaker 1: And what mom, you know, I don't know about following 343 00:21:33,600 --> 00:21:37,800 Speaker 1: a missing person report. She's gone off the grid like 344 00:21:37,920 --> 00:21:40,520 Speaker 1: this before for a couple of months where she didn't 345 00:21:40,640 --> 00:21:42,919 Speaker 1: when she's using she didn't want to talk to her family. 346 00:21:43,080 --> 00:21:44,679 Speaker 1: She didn't want to talk to anybody who was going 347 00:21:44,760 --> 00:21:47,320 Speaker 1: to try to push her to rehab or you know, 348 00:21:47,400 --> 00:21:52,080 Speaker 1: try to do anything to get her off of that path. So, um, 349 00:21:52,119 --> 00:21:55,680 Speaker 1: maybe two months, maybe two months. So you know that 350 00:21:55,680 --> 00:21:57,720 Speaker 1: that part of it was not out of the ordinary, 351 00:21:57,760 --> 00:22:00,119 Speaker 1: and it wasn't really until we got those letters we 352 00:22:00,240 --> 00:22:04,080 Speaker 1: found out that, you know, the Walmart incident had happened, 353 00:22:04,560 --> 00:22:07,440 Speaker 1: that we really began to think, Okay, there's something more 354 00:22:07,480 --> 00:22:12,000 Speaker 1: to this. But even still, I'm thinking, Okay, she's on parole, 355 00:22:12,440 --> 00:22:16,520 Speaker 1: she just got cop shoplifting. Put two and two together, 356 00:22:17,080 --> 00:22:18,880 Speaker 1: and I said, if I go, if I go down 357 00:22:18,880 --> 00:22:21,440 Speaker 1: to the police department and follow this in person report, 358 00:22:21,480 --> 00:22:24,480 Speaker 1: they are gonna laugh me out the door. And um, 359 00:22:24,560 --> 00:22:26,960 Speaker 1: and you know, of course I did feel that way. 360 00:22:26,960 --> 00:22:30,080 Speaker 1: And of course I look back on it now and think, God, 361 00:22:30,160 --> 00:22:32,520 Speaker 1: your dumbass. You know, maybe if you had gone sooner, 362 00:22:32,600 --> 00:22:34,680 Speaker 1: they would have video from the parking lot that. I mean, 363 00:22:34,680 --> 00:22:37,440 Speaker 1: I'd beat myself up every day for that. I can't 364 00:22:37,480 --> 00:22:40,240 Speaker 1: but I can't change that, so I have to move 365 00:22:40,280 --> 00:22:42,679 Speaker 1: on from that. But when I did go, and then 366 00:22:42,720 --> 00:22:45,880 Speaker 1: when I did press the detective, and and the detective 367 00:22:45,880 --> 00:22:48,000 Speaker 1: call and said, yeah, We're we're not even gonna open 368 00:22:48,320 --> 00:22:50,600 Speaker 1: We're not going to open an investigation on this. She's 369 00:22:50,640 --> 00:22:57,879 Speaker 1: just hiding out. She'll she'll turn up. Correct. That was 370 00:22:58,040 --> 00:23:06,000 Speaker 1: in UM. It was in Janue, weary of fourteen, well, September, October, November, December, 371 00:23:06,040 --> 00:23:12,960 Speaker 1: jam four months. You know, she she's on paroll, she 372 00:23:12,960 --> 00:23:16,760 Speaker 1: she was shoplifting, She's in trouble, she's just hiding out. She'll, 373 00:23:16,840 --> 00:23:20,840 Speaker 1: she'll turn up. Yeah. I started calling people. I just 374 00:23:20,880 --> 00:23:23,440 Speaker 1: started calling. I went up the chain at Mary Att 375 00:23:23,440 --> 00:23:27,800 Speaker 1: a p D. And UM was actually called the Chief's 376 00:23:27,800 --> 00:23:30,680 Speaker 1: office and his assistant was amazing and gave me every 377 00:23:30,760 --> 00:23:32,480 Speaker 1: name and number of people I needed to call, and 378 00:23:32,520 --> 00:23:34,520 Speaker 1: she said, if you don't get any satisfaction there, then 379 00:23:34,560 --> 00:23:36,800 Speaker 1: you call me back and I'll make sure that you 380 00:23:37,040 --> 00:23:40,600 Speaker 1: get to talk with Chief Flynn and UM. So I 381 00:23:40,840 --> 00:23:42,520 Speaker 1: went up the chain, and then I got a call 382 00:23:42,720 --> 00:23:49,439 Speaker 1: from a major who UM who basically was not was 383 00:23:49,480 --> 00:23:55,359 Speaker 1: not very nice. He basically told me, we don't even 384 00:23:55,400 --> 00:24:00,280 Speaker 1: know that UM who has jurisdiction on this. And I said, 385 00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:02,840 Speaker 1: and I know who has jurisdiction because it's the last 386 00:24:02,840 --> 00:24:06,320 Speaker 1: place that she was seen and it was in your city. Well, 387 00:24:06,520 --> 00:24:09,240 Speaker 1: she was in our city committing a crime. I really 388 00:24:09,280 --> 00:24:11,679 Speaker 1: don't care what she was doing. Um, she was in 389 00:24:11,720 --> 00:24:15,840 Speaker 1: your city and she's missing. It does not matter what 390 00:24:15,880 --> 00:24:18,119 Speaker 1: she was doing when she went missing. The fact is 391 00:24:18,200 --> 00:24:22,000 Speaker 1: she's missing, and it is your jurisdiction. And um. During 392 00:24:22,000 --> 00:24:24,240 Speaker 1: the course of the conversation, I realized he had mentioned 393 00:24:24,240 --> 00:24:27,359 Speaker 1: that he had a daughter, and I think he has 394 00:24:27,480 --> 00:24:29,960 Speaker 1: to actually, but he had mentioned something about having a daughter, 395 00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:32,120 Speaker 1: and I said, I said, so, I'm just gonna ask 396 00:24:32,119 --> 00:24:35,680 Speaker 1: you this. Um, you mentioned you have a daughter. I said, 397 00:24:35,720 --> 00:24:39,320 Speaker 1: if she went missing, regardless of the circumstances, would you 398 00:24:39,359 --> 00:24:42,560 Speaker 1: not move heaven and earth to find her? And it 399 00:24:42,680 --> 00:24:46,160 Speaker 1: was just complete silence, and he said, I'll be back 400 00:24:46,200 --> 00:24:48,359 Speaker 1: in touch with you. Then he hung up the phone. 401 00:24:48,400 --> 00:24:50,600 Speaker 1: And then later that evening I got the first call 402 00:24:50,680 --> 00:25:00,000 Speaker 1: from Detective Mueller. I don't like to knock any municipality 403 00:25:00,200 --> 00:25:03,679 Speaker 1: or or anything like that, but he's been arrested multiple 404 00:25:03,760 --> 00:25:06,359 Speaker 1: times in cop County. It's always a slap on the rest. 405 00:25:06,440 --> 00:25:09,960 Speaker 1: He's always out in record time. I don't understand how 406 00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:12,880 Speaker 1: somebody can be you know. I mean, my brother works 407 00:25:12,880 --> 00:25:14,720 Speaker 1: at that jail. He said, it's a revolving door. He 408 00:25:14,720 --> 00:25:16,399 Speaker 1: sees the same people in and out of there all 409 00:25:16,440 --> 00:25:19,480 Speaker 1: the time. Ashley's one of them. He's done time there, 410 00:25:19,520 --> 00:25:21,960 Speaker 1: he's done time in prison, he's been in, he's been out. 411 00:25:22,359 --> 00:25:24,520 Speaker 1: But every time he gets in trouble and cop counting 412 00:25:24,840 --> 00:25:27,600 Speaker 1: is the same thing they pleaded. You know, he's a 413 00:25:27,640 --> 00:25:30,199 Speaker 1: little bitty squirt, and I think that he you know, 414 00:25:30,280 --> 00:25:33,000 Speaker 1: tries to talk big and bad, and he tries to 415 00:25:33,040 --> 00:25:37,240 Speaker 1: intimidate people. And he's supposedly a part of this ghost 416 00:25:37,280 --> 00:25:40,119 Speaker 1: Phase gang. Whatever the heck. That is a bunch of losers. 417 00:25:40,440 --> 00:25:42,880 Speaker 1: But I have to say, look, I knew he had 418 00:25:42,920 --> 00:25:45,959 Speaker 1: already set the expectation for me that they were not 419 00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:49,119 Speaker 1: going to be able to get him on trafficking and 420 00:25:49,160 --> 00:25:50,880 Speaker 1: a lot of other things that they wanted to charge 421 00:25:50,960 --> 00:25:54,680 Speaker 1: him with, and that, um, you know, he said, as 422 00:25:54,760 --> 00:25:56,080 Speaker 1: much as I hate to say it, we're not going 423 00:25:56,160 --> 00:25:59,320 Speaker 1: to be able to give him as much time as 424 00:25:59,359 --> 00:26:03,760 Speaker 1: what we're hoping. So my expectations were very low. When 425 00:26:03,760 --> 00:26:05,879 Speaker 1: I heard that he got sentenced to twenty years and 426 00:26:05,920 --> 00:26:10,399 Speaker 1: had to served in I was happy. I was really 427 00:26:10,440 --> 00:26:12,879 Speaker 1: happy because he's not gonna be on the street. He 428 00:26:12,920 --> 00:26:17,479 Speaker 1: can't intimidate witnesses, he can't you know, hide evidence. If 429 00:26:17,480 --> 00:26:19,760 Speaker 1: there is any out there. I mean, I know that 430 00:26:19,840 --> 00:26:24,080 Speaker 1: he saw me. When after the March drug bust, I 431 00:26:24,160 --> 00:26:26,600 Speaker 1: did go to court. Um I went to Yeah, he 432 00:26:26,640 --> 00:26:32,960 Speaker 1: saw me. He definitely saw me. Um. No, Well, when 433 00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:35,359 Speaker 1: he saw me and we did make eye contact, he 434 00:26:35,440 --> 00:26:38,479 Speaker 1: immediately turned and I had on a shirt with her 435 00:26:38,520 --> 00:26:41,320 Speaker 1: picture on it, so there was no doubt who I was. 436 00:26:41,640 --> 00:26:43,120 Speaker 1: He doesn't want to look at me. I don't think 437 00:26:43,160 --> 00:26:46,560 Speaker 1: the guy can look at me. It's just like a 438 00:26:46,960 --> 00:26:52,360 Speaker 1: um never ending nightmare that you can't wake up from. 439 00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:55,040 Speaker 1: You know, you. I go through my day. I take 440 00:26:55,080 --> 00:26:59,239 Speaker 1: care of my family, I do my job. I do 441 00:26:59,320 --> 00:27:01,400 Speaker 1: what I have to do to get through a day. 442 00:27:01,600 --> 00:27:04,119 Speaker 1: And you know, I've had people say, God, you know, 443 00:27:04,200 --> 00:27:06,359 Speaker 1: how do you even how can you even get out 444 00:27:06,400 --> 00:27:08,800 Speaker 1: of bed in the morning if my my child was missing, 445 00:27:08,800 --> 00:27:12,200 Speaker 1: I like what, I have two other kids to take 446 00:27:12,240 --> 00:27:14,200 Speaker 1: care of in a husband, I can't not get out 447 00:27:14,200 --> 00:27:16,760 Speaker 1: of bed. Yeah, I have no choice but to get 448 00:27:16,800 --> 00:27:19,600 Speaker 1: out of bed. And thank God, thank God for that, 449 00:27:20,240 --> 00:27:23,600 Speaker 1: because otherwise, I mean if I just if I didn't 450 00:27:23,640 --> 00:27:26,879 Speaker 1: get out of bed in the morning, I mean I 451 00:27:26,880 --> 00:27:30,000 Speaker 1: would just die. I would just die. I have to 452 00:27:30,119 --> 00:27:33,480 Speaker 1: keep going, I have to keep searching and I have 453 00:27:33,560 --> 00:27:36,160 Speaker 1: to keep doing what I can to try to convince 454 00:27:36,240 --> 00:27:40,080 Speaker 1: people to do the right thing. If you know something, 455 00:27:40,640 --> 00:27:44,040 Speaker 1: you need to say. Something is as simple as that, 456 00:27:44,400 --> 00:27:48,639 Speaker 1: and it's frustrating. What do you tell Tiffany's daughter? You know, 457 00:27:48,720 --> 00:27:51,280 Speaker 1: we don't talk a lot about it. I've kind of 458 00:27:51,359 --> 00:27:53,920 Speaker 1: let her be the lead on them. We do talk 459 00:27:53,960 --> 00:27:56,000 Speaker 1: about her mommy, but we try to. I try to 460 00:27:56,040 --> 00:27:59,320 Speaker 1: talk about her in positive ways. You know, when when 461 00:27:59,600 --> 00:28:02,240 Speaker 1: she'll do something funny that reminds me of her mommy, 462 00:28:02,280 --> 00:28:04,840 Speaker 1: I'll say, oh my gosh, you know you look just 463 00:28:04,880 --> 00:28:08,800 Speaker 1: like your mommy when you did that. Or I'll be 464 00:28:08,800 --> 00:28:11,400 Speaker 1: brushing her hair and say, gosh, you know your hair 465 00:28:11,520 --> 00:28:14,639 Speaker 1: is exactly like hers. I mean, they look exactly alike. 466 00:28:14,840 --> 00:28:17,120 Speaker 1: You look at a picture of Tiffany and you honestly 467 00:28:17,560 --> 00:28:19,600 Speaker 1: accept the fact that the picture is older and the 468 00:28:20,160 --> 00:28:24,040 Speaker 1: styles have changed. There's no difference. You know. She's very 469 00:28:24,119 --> 00:28:25,920 Speaker 1: much like her mommy in a lot of ways, which 470 00:28:25,920 --> 00:28:28,760 Speaker 1: can be worrisome. She's like her in good ways and 471 00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:33,720 Speaker 1: bad ways. She finally got to a point where she 472 00:28:33,800 --> 00:28:37,040 Speaker 1: was she was upset one day and she just told 473 00:28:37,040 --> 00:28:38,760 Speaker 1: me that she was starting to forget what she looked 474 00:28:38,800 --> 00:28:44,720 Speaker 1: like and that just broke my heart. And then she 475 00:28:44,840 --> 00:28:47,360 Speaker 1: wanted to know, you know, she said, is she is 476 00:28:47,440 --> 00:28:51,840 Speaker 1: mo mommy dead? No grandmother should ever have to answer 477 00:28:51,880 --> 00:28:56,480 Speaker 1: that question or never even be asked that question. But um, 478 00:28:56,640 --> 00:28:59,040 Speaker 1: I was honest with her and told her that as 479 00:28:59,120 --> 00:29:01,800 Speaker 1: much as I pray that she's not, that, you know, 480 00:29:01,880 --> 00:29:05,200 Speaker 1: in my heart, I believe that she is. And I 481 00:29:05,280 --> 00:29:07,840 Speaker 1: explained to her what happened, and not only what happened, 482 00:29:07,840 --> 00:29:11,320 Speaker 1: but how she got to that point, you know, what 483 00:29:11,320 --> 00:29:14,000 Speaker 1: what happened in her life that led her down that path. 484 00:29:14,160 --> 00:29:17,000 Speaker 1: And I told her, you know, Tiffany didn't tell the 485 00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:20,640 Speaker 1: truth a lot, and she stole things. I mean, obviously 486 00:29:20,800 --> 00:29:23,840 Speaker 1: she was shop flofting in walmartch and she had taken 487 00:29:23,880 --> 00:29:26,240 Speaker 1: things that didn't belong to her. She had an issue 488 00:29:26,280 --> 00:29:33,160 Speaker 1: with the truth. I have felt for a very long 489 00:29:33,240 --> 00:29:38,040 Speaker 1: time that this particular person was the key to blowing 490 00:29:38,080 --> 00:29:43,600 Speaker 1: this case open. And um, I've been saying that to 491 00:29:43,720 --> 00:29:50,640 Speaker 1: law enforcement now for three years. I guess this guy 492 00:29:50,760 --> 00:29:53,719 Speaker 1: right here, I'm telling you right now, this guy right 493 00:29:53,760 --> 00:29:59,760 Speaker 1: here is the key. And here's why abc D. Here's 494 00:29:59,760 --> 00:30:03,840 Speaker 1: why he's the key. And I'm not gonna say that 495 00:30:03,840 --> 00:30:08,520 Speaker 1: that other people necessarily discounted what I was saying, UM, 496 00:30:08,560 --> 00:30:11,760 Speaker 1: But I don't think they really felt as strongly about 497 00:30:11,800 --> 00:30:17,000 Speaker 1: it as I did. John Dawes listened, and John Dawes 498 00:30:17,400 --> 00:30:21,520 Speaker 1: believes the same thing that I believe. I thought about 499 00:30:21,560 --> 00:30:25,360 Speaker 1: it so many times. I thought, what if, you know, 500 00:30:25,440 --> 00:30:28,240 Speaker 1: I'm sitting at home one night and there's a knock 501 00:30:28,280 --> 00:30:31,560 Speaker 1: at the door and it's John Dawes, or you know, 502 00:30:31,680 --> 00:30:34,240 Speaker 1: somebody is knocking out my door to say, hey, you know, 503 00:30:35,160 --> 00:30:38,120 Speaker 1: we found her, even though I know in my heart, 504 00:30:38,160 --> 00:30:40,600 Speaker 1: I feel in my heart that she's gone to get 505 00:30:40,640 --> 00:30:47,880 Speaker 1: that to find that out would be so final. It's 506 00:30:47,920 --> 00:30:54,120 Speaker 1: just final at that point. But the one person who 507 00:30:54,160 --> 00:30:58,320 Speaker 1: I had said has the key. Yeah, that's what I believe. 508 00:30:58,360 --> 00:31:02,200 Speaker 1: You could tell him something right now, would say. I 509 00:31:02,200 --> 00:31:05,239 Speaker 1: would say what I've said, UM directly to him, and 510 00:31:05,320 --> 00:31:08,840 Speaker 1: that is, you know, if the shoe were on the 511 00:31:08,840 --> 00:31:12,320 Speaker 1: other foot and you were missing, and Tiffany knew what happened, 512 00:31:13,400 --> 00:31:17,280 Speaker 1: she would tell. She wouldn't have any problem telling. And 513 00:31:18,080 --> 00:31:21,040 Speaker 1: you know, one day this could be your child, this 514 00:31:21,080 --> 00:31:25,640 Speaker 1: could be your daughter, God forbid. Don't you want somebody 515 00:31:25,680 --> 00:31:28,480 Speaker 1: to do that for you? Wouldn't you want somebody to 516 00:31:28,520 --> 00:31:31,680 Speaker 1: step forward and do the right thing and say what happened. 517 00:31:32,640 --> 00:31:34,960 Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know how else to put it 518 00:31:35,360 --> 00:31:38,560 Speaker 1: except dude, come on, you know the time is the 519 00:31:38,600 --> 00:31:40,320 Speaker 1: time has come. What is there to be afraid of? 520 00:31:40,880 --> 00:31:43,000 Speaker 1: What is there to be afraid of? If you did 521 00:31:43,120 --> 00:31:47,880 Speaker 1: nothing wrong, then why are you so afraid to come forward? 522 00:31:48,200 --> 00:31:54,760 Speaker 1: Maybe that's what he's afraid of. Maybe maybe, but yeah, 523 00:31:54,840 --> 00:31:57,760 Speaker 1: that could be. I've thought about that too, that maybe 524 00:31:57,760 --> 00:31:59,800 Speaker 1: he did do something wrong and that's why he's so afraid. 525 00:32:00,840 --> 00:32:02,440 Speaker 1: I mean, I think you did something wrong, But I 526 00:32:02,480 --> 00:32:07,240 Speaker 1: don't think he actually I don't think he actually harmed Tiffany. Um, 527 00:32:07,280 --> 00:32:10,640 Speaker 1: but I do think he helped cover it up. Yes, 528 00:32:10,920 --> 00:32:16,040 Speaker 1: is it definitely is. But I think that in the 529 00:32:16,160 --> 00:32:21,360 Speaker 1: interest of information, law enforcement would probably be willing to 530 00:32:21,400 --> 00:32:26,400 Speaker 1: overlook that to get the information if they need. So, 531 00:32:26,640 --> 00:32:29,360 Speaker 1: that's what I would say to him. Quit being a pansy. 532 00:32:30,440 --> 00:32:33,120 Speaker 1: You know, you act all tough with your gang signs 533 00:32:33,160 --> 00:32:35,520 Speaker 1: and your tats and all this kind of stuff. You 534 00:32:35,560 --> 00:32:46,560 Speaker 1: ain't tough. You're not tough at all. Tiffany wouldn't disappeared 535 00:32:46,720 --> 00:32:49,920 Speaker 1: within about a mile or so of my office where 536 00:32:49,960 --> 00:32:54,040 Speaker 1: I work. Every day I drive past the location where 537 00:32:54,080 --> 00:32:58,040 Speaker 1: she was last seen alive. Almost every single day I 538 00:32:58,200 --> 00:33:01,840 Speaker 1: shopped right near there, I near there. I can barely 539 00:33:02,080 --> 00:33:07,200 Speaker 1: imagine how someone could literally disappear without a trace from 540 00:33:07,240 --> 00:33:11,560 Speaker 1: that place. Unlike other cold cases that we've seen, there's 541 00:33:11,680 --> 00:33:15,200 Speaker 1: one factor present here that was not present in anything 542 00:33:15,240 --> 00:33:18,960 Speaker 1: else that really hampered law enforcement when this case started 543 00:33:19,160 --> 00:33:22,480 Speaker 1: as well as today. That factor is the delay in reporting. 544 00:33:23,040 --> 00:33:26,240 Speaker 1: It was four months before Tiffany's mother went to the 545 00:33:26,240 --> 00:33:29,640 Speaker 1: Marriott A police department to report her daughter missing. In 546 00:33:29,680 --> 00:33:33,360 Speaker 1: that four month period of time, just imagine what all 547 00:33:33,440 --> 00:33:37,760 Speaker 1: could have been going on with Tiffany Witten Considering her lifestyle. 548 00:33:38,320 --> 00:33:41,960 Speaker 1: What type of hazards was she facing every day? Was 549 00:33:42,000 --> 00:33:46,200 Speaker 1: she exposing herself to bad people? Was she exposing herself 550 00:33:46,240 --> 00:33:49,360 Speaker 1: to bad habits? Was she perhaps getting herselves in a 551 00:33:49,440 --> 00:33:53,560 Speaker 1: situation where maybe she would overdose or something else tragic 552 00:33:53,560 --> 00:33:58,040 Speaker 1: could happen. The possibilities are seemingly endless. And just how 553 00:33:58,080 --> 00:34:01,680 Speaker 1: regrettable is it that all of those security cameras and 554 00:34:01,720 --> 00:34:05,000 Speaker 1: surveillance videos that I saw just in the parking lot 555 00:34:05,040 --> 00:34:07,360 Speaker 1: of the Walmart alone, not to mention all of the 556 00:34:07,440 --> 00:34:12,040 Speaker 1: nearby stores, they all probably saw where she went. There 557 00:34:12,080 --> 00:34:16,480 Speaker 1: was probably security video showing exactly what happened to her. 558 00:34:16,920 --> 00:34:20,360 Speaker 1: But in that period of time, those recordings went away 559 00:34:20,840 --> 00:34:23,640 Speaker 1: the way that the systems work may usually record over 560 00:34:23,680 --> 00:34:26,480 Speaker 1: themselves after a number of days or perhaps a couple 561 00:34:26,520 --> 00:34:30,400 Speaker 1: of weeks. And so during that four months, think about 562 00:34:30,480 --> 00:34:34,799 Speaker 1: all of the evidence that was simply lost. It's nobody's fault, necessarily, 563 00:34:35,239 --> 00:34:38,080 Speaker 1: it's just the way that it is. That's what happens 564 00:34:38,080 --> 00:34:42,080 Speaker 1: in four months time. Tiffany Whitten was a human being. 565 00:34:42,960 --> 00:34:46,719 Speaker 1: She deserves to be found. It doesn't matter what her 566 00:34:46,760 --> 00:34:50,120 Speaker 1: lifestyle choices may have been, It doesn't matter what her 567 00:34:50,200 --> 00:34:53,880 Speaker 1: past history might have been. She was a human being, 568 00:34:54,320 --> 00:34:57,840 Speaker 1: and she does not deserve to be missing. Her family 569 00:34:57,920 --> 00:35:01,680 Speaker 1: doesn't deserve to go through life. Her daughter doesn't deserve 570 00:35:01,760 --> 00:35:04,680 Speaker 1: to go through life wondering what the hell happened to 571 00:35:04,760 --> 00:35:08,040 Speaker 1: her mother. As much as Tiffany deserves to be found, 572 00:35:08,640 --> 00:35:13,440 Speaker 1: her friends, her family, and her loved ones deserve answers. 573 00:35:13,840 --> 00:35:16,680 Speaker 1: We hear from the Assistant District Attorney in Cobb County 574 00:35:16,840 --> 00:35:20,359 Speaker 1: and discussed the case at length with the current lead investigator, 575 00:35:20,640 --> 00:35:39,600 Speaker 1: John Dawes. Next Time on Sworn. Sworn is produced by 576 00:35:39,600 --> 00:35:44,040 Speaker 1: Tenderfoot TV in Atlanta. Story and production by Payne Lindsay, 577 00:35:44,080 --> 00:35:48,960 Speaker 1: Mason Lindsay and Meredith Steadman and myself Philip Holloway executive 578 00:35:49,000 --> 00:35:52,560 Speaker 1: producers Donald Albright and Payne Lindsay. And if you have 579 00:35:52,640 --> 00:35:55,239 Speaker 1: it yet, please check out our sister podcast, Up and 580 00:35:55,320 --> 00:35:59,000 Speaker 1: Vanished that follows the investigation into the disappearance of Georgia 581 00:35:59,080 --> 00:36:02,480 Speaker 1: High School teacher and beauty queen Tara Grinstead. Up and 582 00:36:02,560 --> 00:36:06,040 Speaker 1: Vantage is available now on Apple Podcasts. Sworn is mixed 583 00:36:06,040 --> 00:36:08,800 Speaker 1: and mastered by Resonate Recordings. If you're in the market 584 00:36:08,840 --> 00:36:12,200 Speaker 1: for podcast production, go to Resonate Recordings dot com to 585 00:36:12,280 --> 00:36:16,400 Speaker 1: get your first episode produced for free. If you haven't already, 586 00:36:16,600 --> 00:36:19,920 Speaker 1: please head over to iTunes now to subscribe, rate, and 587 00:36:20,000 --> 00:36:22,800 Speaker 1: review Sworn and make sure you check us out online 588 00:36:23,160 --> 00:36:26,640 Speaker 1: at sworn podcast dot com and follow us on social 589 00:36:26,680 --> 00:36:30,319 Speaker 1: media at Sworn podcast on Twitter and Instagram, and you 590 00:36:30,320 --> 00:36:33,560 Speaker 1: can follow me your host, Philip Holloway at phil holloway 591 00:36:33,640 --> 00:36:37,080 Speaker 1: e s Q on Twitter. Thanks for listening. This is 592 00:36:37,120 --> 00:36:55,879 Speaker 1: Philip Halloway and I'll see you next time on swarn 593 00:36:42,920 --> 00:36:43,080 Speaker 1: se