1 00:00:09,400 --> 00:00:13,480 Speaker 1: From Mediators World News headquarters in Bozeman, Montana. This is 2 00:00:13,720 --> 00:00:18,319 Speaker 1: Cal's We Can Review with Ryan cal Callahan. Now here's Cal. 3 00:00:20,000 --> 00:00:22,720 Speaker 2: Hey, everybody, welcome to Cal's weekn Review. This week's special 4 00:00:22,800 --> 00:00:25,919 Speaker 2: drop is with Chris Gasner and Ben lamp Now, these 5 00:00:25,960 --> 00:00:28,680 Speaker 2: two folks are hunters here in the state of Montana. 6 00:00:28,720 --> 00:00:31,320 Speaker 2: They do a bunch of other stuff, But what we're 7 00:00:31,320 --> 00:00:36,839 Speaker 2: talking about this week is Joe blow citizens coming forward 8 00:00:37,760 --> 00:00:43,600 Speaker 2: and you know, rounding folks up to propose regulation and 9 00:00:43,720 --> 00:00:50,559 Speaker 2: season changes at the state level for mule deer, specifically 10 00:00:51,120 --> 00:00:53,800 Speaker 2: in the state of Montana. So a couple of things 11 00:00:53,840 --> 00:00:56,640 Speaker 2: you should learn this week is how you could do 12 00:00:56,760 --> 00:01:01,080 Speaker 2: this in your state. And if you're like me, you 13 00:01:01,160 --> 00:01:03,960 Speaker 2: want to know why a couple of folks who say 14 00:01:03,960 --> 00:01:06,640 Speaker 2: they're hunters in the state of Montana want to change 15 00:01:06,680 --> 00:01:11,120 Speaker 2: our mule deer seasons because they are super liberal. We 16 00:01:11,160 --> 00:01:13,639 Speaker 2: gotta start hunting mule deer about the second or sorry, 17 00:01:13,680 --> 00:01:16,240 Speaker 2: first end of the first week of September and roll 18 00:01:17,160 --> 00:01:21,199 Speaker 2: at this point pretty much all the way through January 19 00:01:21,280 --> 00:01:24,800 Speaker 2: with this muzzleloader smoke pole season that we added, so 20 00:01:25,319 --> 00:01:28,000 Speaker 2: a lot of opportunity. Why would a couple of hunters 21 00:01:28,040 --> 00:01:31,759 Speaker 2: want to change that, Chris, what do you do? 22 00:01:32,680 --> 00:01:35,120 Speaker 3: I'm alignment here in billings. 23 00:01:34,920 --> 00:01:38,840 Speaker 2: And so as alignment and billings. What makes you think 24 00:01:38,840 --> 00:01:40,839 Speaker 2: that you can mess with their mule deer seasons? Your 25 00:01:41,120 --> 00:01:42,880 Speaker 2: linemen aren't typically biologists. 26 00:01:43,600 --> 00:01:43,920 Speaker 3: I'm not. 27 00:01:44,120 --> 00:01:46,320 Speaker 1: I'm far from. I'm just a guy who likes to 28 00:01:46,360 --> 00:01:52,280 Speaker 1: hunt a little bit. I just in the last ten years, 29 00:01:52,360 --> 00:01:55,120 Speaker 1: the steady decline from what I've seen where I hunts. 30 00:01:56,320 --> 00:01:58,000 Speaker 3: We can't sustain the way this is going. 31 00:01:59,160 --> 00:02:02,880 Speaker 2: So you're feeling like they're is an overall population decline 32 00:02:03,440 --> 00:02:09,120 Speaker 2: or opportunity decline specific to mule deer in your zone. 33 00:02:09,840 --> 00:02:12,359 Speaker 1: Well, I mean on a good weekend, we used to 34 00:02:12,400 --> 00:02:15,000 Speaker 1: see like fifteen to twenty bucks a week, and now 35 00:02:15,000 --> 00:02:18,160 Speaker 1: we're seeing one or two, you know, maybe three. 36 00:02:18,800 --> 00:02:20,960 Speaker 3: It's the same amount of people. The deer number are 37 00:02:21,080 --> 00:02:23,880 Speaker 3: just down. And I you know, it's it's time for 38 00:02:23,919 --> 00:02:25,400 Speaker 3: a change. 39 00:02:25,560 --> 00:02:31,839 Speaker 2: And and Ben, Ben Lamb, please jump in here wherever 40 00:02:31,960 --> 00:02:38,360 Speaker 2: you can if we're talking about changing mule deer and Ben, 41 00:02:38,400 --> 00:02:41,880 Speaker 2: you're not a biologist either, correct? 42 00:02:42,960 --> 00:02:45,600 Speaker 4: Uh, just just when I'm on the bar stool like 43 00:02:45,720 --> 00:02:46,359 Speaker 4: so many of. 44 00:02:46,360 --> 00:02:52,440 Speaker 2: Us, Okay, just a just a hunting citizen in Montana. 45 00:02:53,160 --> 00:02:56,480 Speaker 2: What where are you guys at how do you go 46 00:02:56,600 --> 00:03:03,600 Speaker 2: about changing a season or or changing Mueldier regulations in 47 00:03:03,639 --> 00:03:04,600 Speaker 2: the state of Montana. 48 00:03:05,360 --> 00:03:05,640 Speaker 5: Yeah. 49 00:03:05,680 --> 00:03:10,960 Speaker 4: So, you know, Montana, like so many states, whether it's 50 00:03:11,080 --> 00:03:14,720 Speaker 4: you know, east of the Mississippi or west, there is 51 00:03:14,760 --> 00:03:18,840 Speaker 4: a public process to allow for citizens to engage in 52 00:03:19,120 --> 00:03:24,520 Speaker 4: season setting, to engage in the management of wild animals, 53 00:03:24,560 --> 00:03:28,840 Speaker 4: wildlife and the way that we hunt those and so, 54 00:03:30,760 --> 00:03:34,519 Speaker 4: you know, from my perspective, I think it's absolutely well 55 00:03:34,560 --> 00:03:39,400 Speaker 4: within the rights of citizens to put proposals together to 56 00:03:39,480 --> 00:03:41,440 Speaker 4: address things like this. And I think if you look 57 00:03:41,440 --> 00:03:44,680 Speaker 4: at the history of Montana going you know, back to 58 00:03:45,960 --> 00:03:48,600 Speaker 4: you know, the elders, like the Jacks out of but 59 00:03:49,560 --> 00:03:53,160 Speaker 4: Tony Shoon and Jim Poswitz, those boys, you know, like 60 00:03:53,800 --> 00:03:57,320 Speaker 4: the State Lands Coalition is a great example here. There 61 00:03:57,360 --> 00:04:00,320 Speaker 4: was a group of guys who felt like Montana should 62 00:04:00,320 --> 00:04:02,800 Speaker 4: be able to hunt and fish on state trust lands, 63 00:04:03,640 --> 00:04:08,040 Speaker 4: and they led a citizen's effort to get that instituted 64 00:04:08,080 --> 00:04:13,920 Speaker 4: through some legislation. You know, that's how the public trust 65 00:04:13,960 --> 00:04:18,080 Speaker 4: works and public land, public wildlife, all of that falls 66 00:04:18,160 --> 00:04:21,880 Speaker 4: under the public trust. And so you know, we're we're 67 00:04:21,920 --> 00:04:25,360 Speaker 4: really fortunate in the United States that you know, because 68 00:04:25,400 --> 00:04:27,680 Speaker 4: of the North American model, because of the way that 69 00:04:29,040 --> 00:04:33,320 Speaker 4: our state legislatures have set up wildlife management, like that 70 00:04:33,440 --> 00:04:36,599 Speaker 4: wildlife belongs to the citizens of that state to be 71 00:04:36,720 --> 00:04:40,799 Speaker 4: managed for their benefit. And so you know, those folks, 72 00:04:41,000 --> 00:04:44,839 Speaker 4: residents in each individual state, have an outsized voice. 73 00:04:44,560 --> 00:04:46,040 Speaker 5: And how that management occurs. 74 00:04:46,960 --> 00:04:49,800 Speaker 4: And so if there's a chance to bring people together 75 00:04:50,000 --> 00:04:52,920 Speaker 4: to try and find a way forward that's better than 76 00:04:52,960 --> 00:04:56,640 Speaker 4: the current model, then you know, more power to them, right, 77 00:04:56,720 --> 00:04:59,760 Speaker 4: Like it's the power of democracy and it's the power 78 00:04:59,839 --> 00:05:01,360 Speaker 4: of citizen engagement. 79 00:05:01,480 --> 00:05:02,559 Speaker 5: It's really kind of cool. 80 00:05:02,960 --> 00:05:07,320 Speaker 2: So where are you at? Did did you send a 81 00:05:07,360 --> 00:05:10,479 Speaker 2: proposal that just says, hey, I want to change the 82 00:05:10,520 --> 00:05:13,560 Speaker 2: seasons because I'm not having success and he sent that 83 00:05:13,720 --> 00:05:17,400 Speaker 2: to the Montana Fish and Game Commission? Or where you are? 84 00:05:17,600 --> 00:05:20,080 Speaker 2: Is there research behind this? Chris and Ben? 85 00:05:20,800 --> 00:05:24,039 Speaker 1: Before we even get to that point, I think it 86 00:05:24,040 --> 00:05:28,240 Speaker 1: would be worth mentioning that everybody who's worked on this proposal. 87 00:05:29,160 --> 00:05:34,039 Speaker 1: We brought people in that are outfitters that work with MOGA. 88 00:05:34,240 --> 00:05:37,159 Speaker 1: We brought in private landowners. We brought guys in from 89 00:05:37,160 --> 00:05:42,960 Speaker 1: the whole across this entire state to represent every person aspect. 90 00:05:43,120 --> 00:05:47,120 Speaker 1: We have private landowners on the group, like and everybody 91 00:05:47,160 --> 00:05:51,080 Speaker 1: came together, representing themselves as a citizen to find a 92 00:05:51,160 --> 00:05:55,280 Speaker 1: compromise for what we wanted, how we'd like to try 93 00:05:55,320 --> 00:05:58,120 Speaker 1: and help the meal there. This wasn't just like we 94 00:05:58,200 --> 00:06:00,400 Speaker 1: sat down and just jotted some stuff on a paper 95 00:06:00,400 --> 00:06:02,200 Speaker 1: and it's like, let's send this up the ladder and 96 00:06:02,240 --> 00:06:03,080 Speaker 1: see what happens. 97 00:06:03,800 --> 00:06:05,440 Speaker 2: So can you speak a little bit more to the 98 00:06:05,680 --> 00:06:08,400 Speaker 2: to the group, Chris is it sounds like you had 99 00:06:08,440 --> 00:06:14,120 Speaker 2: a diverse set of interests and like, roughly how many 100 00:06:14,160 --> 00:06:15,719 Speaker 2: folks are involved in this? 101 00:06:16,360 --> 00:06:18,200 Speaker 3: Believe we're at nine right now. 102 00:06:18,800 --> 00:06:22,320 Speaker 2: And I imagine you're you're trying to cover a large 103 00:06:22,320 --> 00:06:26,120 Speaker 2: portion of the state. In addition to you spoke of 104 00:06:27,440 --> 00:06:31,680 Speaker 2: outfitters that are involved in MOGA for everybody is Montana 105 00:06:31,720 --> 00:06:36,200 Speaker 2: Outfitter and Guides Association. And you got folks on the 106 00:06:36,279 --> 00:06:38,000 Speaker 2: on the private side of the fence and the public 107 00:06:38,040 --> 00:06:38,760 Speaker 2: side of the fence. 108 00:06:39,480 --> 00:06:41,880 Speaker 1: We want it to work for everybody. This isn't just 109 00:06:41,920 --> 00:06:44,839 Speaker 1: a single person. Me, me, me, I want to see 110 00:06:44,839 --> 00:06:48,120 Speaker 1: bigger bucks on the landscape, Like that's not the concern. 111 00:06:48,240 --> 00:06:51,360 Speaker 1: This whole thing wasn't put together to try and grow 112 00:06:51,480 --> 00:06:54,159 Speaker 1: trophy boxer. This whole proposal would have been wrote differently 113 00:06:54,200 --> 00:06:58,040 Speaker 1: and we'd have a lot of limited entry units where 114 00:06:58,080 --> 00:06:59,840 Speaker 1: the only limited entry units are. 115 00:06:59,760 --> 00:07:02,560 Speaker 3: The one that are currently available right now. Like, we 116 00:07:02,600 --> 00:07:03,800 Speaker 3: didn't change any of that. 117 00:07:04,320 --> 00:07:06,880 Speaker 2: So that's kind of the meat and the potatoes of 118 00:07:07,520 --> 00:07:11,080 Speaker 2: the proposal, which which I do want to get into. 119 00:07:11,680 --> 00:07:14,840 Speaker 4: Yeah, just to finish what Chris was saying, it's you know, 120 00:07:14,920 --> 00:07:20,160 Speaker 4: the idea was to have somebody from each region, you know, 121 00:07:20,440 --> 00:07:23,200 Speaker 4: somebody who can speak especially to the public land hunting 122 00:07:23,240 --> 00:07:27,200 Speaker 4: side of things. You know, have somebody from each region, 123 00:07:27,560 --> 00:07:30,200 Speaker 4: you know, to represent what's going on in that region. 124 00:07:31,120 --> 00:07:34,960 Speaker 4: And then you know, we had a couple of outfitters 125 00:07:35,000 --> 00:07:38,040 Speaker 4: who are really interested in changes as well, and so 126 00:07:38,080 --> 00:07:42,600 Speaker 4: they fell into that and that's where the nine comes from. 127 00:07:42,760 --> 00:07:46,840 Speaker 4: And then myself and Rob Arnaut who's with the Conservation 128 00:07:46,960 --> 00:07:51,000 Speaker 4: Society as well, we're just kind of the administrative staff. 129 00:07:51,040 --> 00:07:54,280 Speaker 4: We help them do some of the research, you know, 130 00:07:54,800 --> 00:07:57,760 Speaker 4: talk to certain folks whatever. And so to the question 131 00:07:57,880 --> 00:08:00,400 Speaker 4: that you had, like, you know, is their research behind this? 132 00:08:01,200 --> 00:08:04,040 Speaker 4: You know, the FWP's got some really good research on 133 00:08:04,080 --> 00:08:06,840 Speaker 4: their website. You know, happy to send you some of 134 00:08:06,880 --> 00:08:11,040 Speaker 4: the stuff that we've been looking at, but it's you know, 135 00:08:11,120 --> 00:08:14,960 Speaker 4: it's really an issue of what kind of quality of 136 00:08:15,040 --> 00:08:19,480 Speaker 4: hunt do people want rather, you know, because opportunity is awesome, 137 00:08:19,560 --> 00:08:21,760 Speaker 4: and we've got you know, six to eight months of 138 00:08:21,800 --> 00:08:25,440 Speaker 4: opportunity to take guns for a walk. But when you 139 00:08:25,480 --> 00:08:29,120 Speaker 4: start to look at the overall harvest rate and how 140 00:08:29,120 --> 00:08:32,640 Speaker 4: many hundred days it takes to get there, like, you 141 00:08:32,679 --> 00:08:35,160 Speaker 4: start to see where some of the imbalance comes in, 142 00:08:35,320 --> 00:08:37,880 Speaker 4: especially when you start looking at like how elk hunting 143 00:08:38,000 --> 00:08:41,960 Speaker 4: interacts with meal deer hunting, and so it's you know, 144 00:08:42,080 --> 00:08:44,520 Speaker 4: like to Chris's point about wanting to see better meal 145 00:08:44,559 --> 00:08:51,079 Speaker 4: deer populations increase the hunt quality and the success quality. 146 00:08:51,200 --> 00:08:53,120 Speaker 4: You know, like we had to look at everything, and 147 00:08:53,200 --> 00:08:55,480 Speaker 4: so I think these guys have done a really good job, 148 00:08:55,960 --> 00:08:58,480 Speaker 4: you know, like figuring out the interplay between elk hunting 149 00:08:58,520 --> 00:09:01,840 Speaker 4: and deer hunting and trying to bring something to the 150 00:09:01,880 --> 00:09:05,680 Speaker 4: forefront that really kind of shows the the concerns and 151 00:09:05,720 --> 00:09:09,280 Speaker 4: the desires of the three major stakeholders when it comes 152 00:09:09,280 --> 00:09:13,440 Speaker 4: to deer and elk management, which are outfitters, hunters, and landowners. 153 00:09:13,480 --> 00:09:15,319 Speaker 4: And so that's just kind of you know, building off 154 00:09:15,320 --> 00:09:16,559 Speaker 4: of what Christmas saying. 155 00:09:16,920 --> 00:09:22,120 Speaker 2: Thank you for that, and uh, you know, nationally, Mule 156 00:09:22,120 --> 00:09:27,040 Speaker 2: deer are threatened in several different ways. We have encroaching 157 00:09:27,120 --> 00:09:32,440 Speaker 2: chronic wasting disease, we have encroaching development. Mule deier typically 158 00:09:32,480 --> 00:09:37,640 Speaker 2: aren't like white tails, where they're highly adaptable and they 159 00:09:37,679 --> 00:09:43,000 Speaker 2: love like that that fringe environment. These deer are more 160 00:09:44,600 --> 00:09:55,920 Speaker 2: open landscape, native habitat, native forage based species. And we're 161 00:09:55,960 --> 00:10:04,280 Speaker 2: also seeing fragmentation in regards to migration corridors, which depending 162 00:10:04,280 --> 00:10:09,040 Speaker 2: on your area, can be very very long, like we 163 00:10:09,200 --> 00:10:15,320 Speaker 2: like to highlight in the Wyoming Migration Initiative of hundreds 164 00:10:15,320 --> 00:10:18,240 Speaker 2: of miles, or they can be short. Be they long 165 00:10:18,360 --> 00:10:24,000 Speaker 2: or be they short. Putting a housing development or any 166 00:10:24,040 --> 00:10:30,280 Speaker 2: sort of obstacle in that path costs those deer calories 167 00:10:30,600 --> 00:10:34,960 Speaker 2: and time as they're moving on the range between winter 168 00:10:35,080 --> 00:10:38,599 Speaker 2: range and summer range. So we are seeing some declines 169 00:10:38,640 --> 00:10:44,560 Speaker 2: in mealier population across the across North America because of 170 00:10:44,600 --> 00:10:53,840 Speaker 2: those things. So adapting regulations and seasons, we could say 171 00:10:53,880 --> 00:10:59,840 Speaker 2: proactively isn't necessarily something I'm opposed to. But for me, 172 00:11:01,040 --> 00:11:03,760 Speaker 2: when I hear like, well, I'm not seeing the success 173 00:11:03,840 --> 00:11:06,400 Speaker 2: that I would like, I have to take that with 174 00:11:06,440 --> 00:11:09,880 Speaker 2: a grain of salt, right, because I don't know how 175 00:11:10,640 --> 00:11:14,040 Speaker 2: really anybody else hunts. But you can jump to some 176 00:11:14,200 --> 00:11:16,400 Speaker 2: conclusions as far as like well, how much effort are 177 00:11:16,400 --> 00:11:20,120 Speaker 2: you putting down, which is where that data has got 178 00:11:20,120 --> 00:11:26,880 Speaker 2: to come into play. And what is like the big 179 00:11:26,960 --> 00:11:31,560 Speaker 2: sets of demands Chris and Ban in your proposal, like 180 00:11:31,760 --> 00:11:35,320 Speaker 2: what would it do? What are the major changes? How 181 00:11:35,360 --> 00:11:40,320 Speaker 2: would it alter our hunting opportunities here in the state 182 00:11:40,360 --> 00:11:41,480 Speaker 2: of Montana for mule deer. 183 00:11:42,760 --> 00:11:45,920 Speaker 3: So the goal when I started was to move meal 184 00:11:46,000 --> 00:11:46,960 Speaker 3: deer season. 185 00:11:46,720 --> 00:11:50,839 Speaker 5: Out of November, which is the rep Yeah, I. 186 00:11:50,800 --> 00:11:54,320 Speaker 1: Mean the only thing I could really feel comfortable hunting 187 00:11:54,360 --> 00:11:56,200 Speaker 1: them with is about a wrist rocket. Some of the 188 00:11:56,240 --> 00:11:58,439 Speaker 1: deer it is so dumb you get out throw rocks 189 00:11:58,480 --> 00:12:01,760 Speaker 1: at them. Done that before, like get away from the 190 00:12:01,800 --> 00:12:03,320 Speaker 1: road and driving back to camp. 191 00:12:03,160 --> 00:12:06,400 Speaker 3: Like somebody's gonna shoot you. You should go run and hide, 192 00:12:06,520 --> 00:12:06,679 Speaker 3: you know. 193 00:12:06,880 --> 00:12:10,040 Speaker 1: It's it's not fair to hunt them when they're that vulnerable. 194 00:12:10,400 --> 00:12:13,640 Speaker 1: And that's the like all of the shifts that are 195 00:12:13,679 --> 00:12:15,840 Speaker 1: in this is because of how long and liberal our 196 00:12:15,880 --> 00:12:19,920 Speaker 1: seasons are and to try and still keep everything as 197 00:12:19,960 --> 00:12:23,160 Speaker 1: long as we could and allow opportunity without having things 198 00:12:23,240 --> 00:12:24,240 Speaker 1: go to a draw tack. 199 00:12:25,280 --> 00:12:32,480 Speaker 2: And and are we seeing kind of your classic bookended 200 00:12:32,600 --> 00:12:35,880 Speaker 2: harvest reports. So we're seeing a lot of deer taken 201 00:12:36,720 --> 00:12:39,200 Speaker 2: in that first week of the season and a lot 202 00:12:39,200 --> 00:12:41,760 Speaker 2: of deer taken in that last week of the season. 203 00:12:43,200 --> 00:12:46,360 Speaker 4: I think for yeah, I think for rifle, that's that's 204 00:12:46,400 --> 00:12:50,240 Speaker 4: pretty true. You know, archery, you know, Chris is the 205 00:12:50,320 --> 00:12:53,280 Speaker 4: archer in the group, you know, and so's another guy, 206 00:12:53,440 --> 00:12:56,520 Speaker 4: just not not necessarily me, but you know, archery guys 207 00:12:56,559 --> 00:12:59,800 Speaker 4: are mostly you know, they're primarily interested in the elk 208 00:12:59,840 --> 00:13:04,400 Speaker 4: and can be an afterthought, you know, chasing chasing muldeer 209 00:13:04,440 --> 00:13:06,600 Speaker 4: in velvet on summer range is actually kind of a 210 00:13:06,640 --> 00:13:11,160 Speaker 4: cool hunt. But but yeah, you know, like there's the 211 00:13:11,280 --> 00:13:14,320 Speaker 4: opportunity to kind of put a little bit of a 212 00:13:14,320 --> 00:13:17,679 Speaker 4: pressure relief valve on mule deer by moving that hunt 213 00:13:17,760 --> 00:13:21,680 Speaker 4: out of the rut when they're the most vulnerable. But 214 00:13:22,160 --> 00:13:24,800 Speaker 4: you're absolutely right, cal like that the majority of the 215 00:13:24,840 --> 00:13:28,920 Speaker 4: harvest comes in. And if you look at the twenty 216 00:13:28,960 --> 00:13:33,080 Speaker 4: twenty three f WP Hunter survey on mule deer, like, 217 00:13:33,160 --> 00:13:36,439 Speaker 4: there are some very clear things that citizens in Montana 218 00:13:36,559 --> 00:13:39,720 Speaker 4: want to be able to do, and number one and 219 00:13:39,840 --> 00:13:45,280 Speaker 4: number two are hunt mule deer every year and not 220 00:13:45,360 --> 00:13:49,240 Speaker 4: really worried about the quality of the antlers, and I 221 00:13:49,280 --> 00:13:51,600 Speaker 4: think there's I think there's something really kind of cool 222 00:13:51,640 --> 00:13:56,440 Speaker 4: about that, right, Like it's it's not this you know, 223 00:13:56,679 --> 00:13:59,200 Speaker 4: race to have the biggest rack. It's not a race 224 00:13:59,559 --> 00:14:04,719 Speaker 4: for you know, your social media credibility or anything like that. 225 00:14:04,840 --> 00:14:07,240 Speaker 4: It's just the fact that people want to go hunt 226 00:14:07,440 --> 00:14:11,360 Speaker 4: mule deer. Like one of my favorite hunting photographs is 227 00:14:11,360 --> 00:14:14,280 Speaker 4: my grandmother in a pleated skirt on a forty nine 228 00:14:14,400 --> 00:14:19,240 Speaker 4: nash with the quintessential forky Montana mule deer hung over 229 00:14:19,320 --> 00:14:23,360 Speaker 4: the fender. And like, there's there's something really egalitarian and 230 00:14:23,400 --> 00:14:26,240 Speaker 4: wonderful about the fact that everybody. 231 00:14:25,720 --> 00:14:26,480 Speaker 5: Gets to hunt. 232 00:14:27,520 --> 00:14:29,280 Speaker 4: And so that was the That was one of the 233 00:14:29,280 --> 00:14:31,680 Speaker 4: big things that I think these guys are really interested 234 00:14:31,720 --> 00:14:35,560 Speaker 4: in preserving, is you know, under this proposal, you would 235 00:14:35,600 --> 00:14:38,560 Speaker 4: still have four weeks of mule deer hunting with a rifle. 236 00:14:39,120 --> 00:14:42,400 Speaker 4: You'd still have, you know, five weeks of archery hunting, 237 00:14:43,120 --> 00:14:46,080 Speaker 4: and then if you draw one of those limited entry units, 238 00:14:46,120 --> 00:14:49,040 Speaker 4: you get a rut hunt mule deer. Because the proposal 239 00:14:49,200 --> 00:14:53,080 Speaker 4: is structured in a way that it would not make 240 00:14:53,200 --> 00:14:57,040 Speaker 4: that change because you're already limiting the hunter pressure and 241 00:14:57,120 --> 00:14:59,120 Speaker 4: so when you you look at all of that stuff 242 00:14:59,120 --> 00:15:02,840 Speaker 4: with mule deer, the one thing that people really you know, 243 00:15:02,920 --> 00:15:05,080 Speaker 4: the third thing that people really say they really love 244 00:15:06,080 --> 00:15:10,560 Speaker 4: is the family aspect of that Thanksgiving hunt. And you know, 245 00:15:10,600 --> 00:15:12,920 Speaker 4: the reality is by that time of the year, a 246 00:15:12,920 --> 00:15:15,240 Speaker 4: lot of people are hunting down much lower than they 247 00:15:15,240 --> 00:15:18,160 Speaker 4: would have. Animals are down lower, access to whitetail is 248 00:15:18,200 --> 00:15:21,560 Speaker 4: a lot easier, and so you know, wanting to be 249 00:15:21,600 --> 00:15:24,320 Speaker 4: able to preserve some of that rut hunt, which Montanas 250 00:15:24,400 --> 00:15:28,320 Speaker 4: really do like, and put it on a species that is, 251 00:15:28,640 --> 00:15:32,320 Speaker 4: you know, biologically in a better place, because you're absolutely right, 252 00:15:32,440 --> 00:15:37,760 Speaker 4: multier are suffering range wide, and it's primarily a habitat issue, 253 00:15:37,760 --> 00:15:41,840 Speaker 4: but CWD and you know, a host of other issues 254 00:15:41,840 --> 00:15:46,120 Speaker 4: come into play. And so while the proposal doesn't necessarily 255 00:15:46,160 --> 00:15:51,240 Speaker 4: deal with habitat restoration, maintenance or conservation, like I think 256 00:15:51,280 --> 00:15:54,160 Speaker 4: they do recognize those are super important things that have 257 00:15:54,200 --> 00:15:58,240 Speaker 4: to happen in conjunction. And so when you when you 258 00:15:58,280 --> 00:16:00,400 Speaker 4: think about that from the legislative side, there's a lot 259 00:16:00,440 --> 00:16:03,479 Speaker 4: of cool things you can do relative to habitat Montana. 260 00:16:04,920 --> 00:16:08,320 Speaker 4: You know, any of the funding programs that Montana has 261 00:16:08,360 --> 00:16:11,480 Speaker 4: to get money on the ground and work with groups 262 00:16:11,520 --> 00:16:15,360 Speaker 4: like MDF or you know, any other organization that does 263 00:16:15,480 --> 00:16:17,960 Speaker 4: habitat restoration and improvement projects. 264 00:16:19,280 --> 00:16:23,080 Speaker 5: So there's it's just like this huge swirling thing. But 265 00:16:23,120 --> 00:16:25,280 Speaker 5: when it all comes down to, at least in this 266 00:16:25,400 --> 00:16:29,040 Speaker 5: proposal is the bite of the apple. 267 00:16:29,160 --> 00:16:31,680 Speaker 4: These guys wanted was to go after the season setting 268 00:16:31,720 --> 00:16:34,840 Speaker 4: stuff because they felt like they could they could really 269 00:16:34,880 --> 00:16:37,800 Speaker 4: have an impact given the way this commission has been 270 00:16:37,920 --> 00:16:39,680 Speaker 4: trending on the issue. 271 00:16:40,400 --> 00:16:43,920 Speaker 2: By and large, people do like to hunt, but they 272 00:16:44,000 --> 00:16:49,160 Speaker 2: also like to have a reasonable level of success, and 273 00:16:49,520 --> 00:16:52,160 Speaker 2: that is has a huge asterisk on it. Right. So 274 00:16:52,920 --> 00:16:56,600 Speaker 2: I was just talking to an old Idaho game orton 275 00:16:56,640 --> 00:16:58,400 Speaker 2: on the phone right before I recall it, and he 276 00:16:58,480 --> 00:17:01,640 Speaker 2: was talking about whileye you know, catching walleye and and 277 00:17:04,240 --> 00:17:10,000 Speaker 2: they're having success, probably it would be a very successful 278 00:17:10,160 --> 00:17:13,080 Speaker 2: day for a lot of other walleye anglers. But they're 279 00:17:13,200 --> 00:17:16,320 Speaker 2: very good walleye anglers, So they've been frustrated the last 280 00:17:16,320 --> 00:17:20,080 Speaker 2: couple of days despite having days that other walleye anglers 281 00:17:20,119 --> 00:17:26,080 Speaker 2: would probably call very successful. When we talk about this 282 00:17:26,240 --> 00:17:32,359 Speaker 2: rut hunt, that's where a ton of folks Chris, like 283 00:17:32,400 --> 00:17:37,040 Speaker 2: you mentioned, they are picking up those you know, a 284 00:17:37,160 --> 00:17:38,920 Speaker 2: year and a half to two and a half year 285 00:17:38,920 --> 00:17:42,600 Speaker 2: old deer. They're thinking about big antlers, but they're very 286 00:17:42,640 --> 00:17:47,720 Speaker 2: happy with whatever. You know, poor buck thinking nothing about 287 00:17:47,840 --> 00:17:52,919 Speaker 2: ladies wanders across their path. So do you see a 288 00:17:52,960 --> 00:17:57,080 Speaker 2: lot of pushback from folks just based off of that? 289 00:17:57,400 --> 00:18:01,199 Speaker 2: Like that is my easy deer. See, that's why I 290 00:18:01,280 --> 00:18:04,679 Speaker 2: go out in November. It's not just the big bucks. 291 00:18:05,720 --> 00:18:09,080 Speaker 1: To me, this thing seemed like we've got one of 292 00:18:09,160 --> 00:18:13,840 Speaker 1: three reactions from anybody that's seen it. They either absolutely 293 00:18:13,920 --> 00:18:18,040 Speaker 1: love it. We get the this is great butt, or 294 00:18:18,119 --> 00:18:21,960 Speaker 1: you guys are out of your mind, and the this 295 00:18:22,040 --> 00:18:24,800 Speaker 1: is great butt is usually where those guys land where 296 00:18:24,800 --> 00:18:26,800 Speaker 1: they're like, well, if we could do a little of 297 00:18:26,800 --> 00:18:29,639 Speaker 1: this and leave it so I still get my brut hunt, 298 00:18:29,720 --> 00:18:34,240 Speaker 1: that would be awesome. It's it's basically the way we 299 00:18:34,280 --> 00:18:37,000 Speaker 1: put it together is everybody makes a sacrifice to be 300 00:18:37,040 --> 00:18:39,000 Speaker 1: able to move this to help the deer. 301 00:18:40,119 --> 00:18:44,160 Speaker 2: And and how widely distributed is this plan? Like where 302 00:18:44,240 --> 00:18:46,919 Speaker 2: can people find it? Is it? Is it publicly available? 303 00:18:48,720 --> 00:18:51,840 Speaker 1: So far, we've had one news article do a story 304 00:18:51,840 --> 00:18:54,679 Speaker 1: on us or the gazette here and Billings ran a 305 00:18:54,680 --> 00:18:57,240 Speaker 1: story which Ben might be able to quote. 306 00:18:57,080 --> 00:18:59,120 Speaker 3: Us they ran through more than just billings with that. 307 00:19:00,200 --> 00:19:01,360 Speaker 5: The Lee Enterprises. 308 00:19:01,440 --> 00:19:05,359 Speaker 4: But we we don't have it hosted online yet. I'm 309 00:19:05,480 --> 00:19:08,719 Speaker 4: I'm still working on that. I'm just way behind or usual. 310 00:19:10,720 --> 00:19:14,520 Speaker 4: Once we do, that'll be you know, we'll we'll shoot 311 00:19:14,560 --> 00:19:17,240 Speaker 4: you the link to it. But right now, you know, 312 00:19:17,320 --> 00:19:19,840 Speaker 4: anybody that wants to see it, they can shoot me 313 00:19:19,880 --> 00:19:23,760 Speaker 4: an email, you know, Ben lamb one at gmail dot 314 00:19:23,800 --> 00:19:27,960 Speaker 4: com and I'll gladly ship them the latest version of it. 315 00:19:29,160 --> 00:19:32,040 Speaker 4: But you know, for right now where you know, it's 316 00:19:32,040 --> 00:19:35,120 Speaker 4: gone to a variety of the nonprofit organizations that work 317 00:19:35,119 --> 00:19:39,520 Speaker 4: in this space. Landowner groups have it, outfitters have it, 318 00:19:39,640 --> 00:19:43,040 Speaker 4: hunting organizations have it. Uh, it has been sent to 319 00:19:43,119 --> 00:19:47,920 Speaker 4: the agency. They you know, they're very cautious and they're 320 00:19:47,960 --> 00:19:51,159 Speaker 4: not talking about it because it's not you know, something 321 00:19:51,200 --> 00:19:54,879 Speaker 4: that's you know, coming up within the next while. And 322 00:19:54,920 --> 00:19:57,120 Speaker 4: that goes back to your early question about the process 323 00:19:57,200 --> 00:20:01,840 Speaker 4: and how long it's taking. You like, the vast majority 324 00:20:01,840 --> 00:20:03,960 Speaker 4: of stuff in here is geared for the twenty five 325 00:20:04,080 --> 00:20:08,920 Speaker 4: twenty six season setting process, which will happen in I'm sorry, 326 00:20:08,960 --> 00:20:12,199 Speaker 4: the twenty six twenty seven season process, and that happens 327 00:20:12,240 --> 00:20:16,200 Speaker 4: at the end of twenty twenty five. So yeah, there's 328 00:20:16,240 --> 00:20:19,240 Speaker 4: there's a lot of conversations ongoing, you know, talking with 329 00:20:19,440 --> 00:20:22,919 Speaker 4: various landowner groups, sunning organizations. 330 00:20:23,520 --> 00:20:23,720 Speaker 5: You know. 331 00:20:24,240 --> 00:20:27,120 Speaker 4: I yeah, I think Chris nailed it with the kind 332 00:20:27,160 --> 00:20:31,160 Speaker 4: of responses that we get. There's there's support and there's opposition, 333 00:20:31,240 --> 00:20:34,320 Speaker 4: and there's a lot of interest, and it's you know, 334 00:20:34,359 --> 00:20:39,080 Speaker 4: it's not just one subset that likes it or hates it. 335 00:20:39,080 --> 00:20:42,240 Speaker 4: It's been pretty mixed, which is really interesting to see. 336 00:20:42,280 --> 00:20:45,320 Speaker 4: You know, like people are honestly thinking about stuff, and 337 00:20:45,359 --> 00:20:47,280 Speaker 4: it's it's kind of cool. 338 00:20:50,720 --> 00:20:53,960 Speaker 2: I imagine there's there's there's gonna be plenty of folks 339 00:20:54,000 --> 00:20:56,680 Speaker 2: who are like, I want to keep this runt hunt 340 00:20:57,680 --> 00:21:00,520 Speaker 2: until it goes completely bad. 341 00:21:01,080 --> 00:21:04,439 Speaker 4: Yeah, right, Like that's just that's human nature to not 342 00:21:04,640 --> 00:21:08,760 Speaker 4: want the change, and especially you know like Montana, where 343 00:21:08,840 --> 00:21:11,879 Speaker 4: where the six and five week season structure is. I 344 00:21:11,880 --> 00:21:14,720 Speaker 4: mean that's almost like church, right, I mean, our our 345 00:21:14,880 --> 00:21:17,359 Speaker 4: entire lives are built around those weeks off. 346 00:21:18,000 --> 00:21:23,160 Speaker 2: Well, that's things. You're not changing someone's hunt, you're changing 347 00:21:23,280 --> 00:21:29,040 Speaker 2: somebody's Thanksgiving. Yeah in Montana, right, Like, that's that's part 348 00:21:29,240 --> 00:21:35,800 Speaker 2: of the season for everybody who works on a ranch. 349 00:21:36,800 --> 00:21:39,960 Speaker 2: Don't worry about hunting until we get our couple of 350 00:21:40,040 --> 00:21:43,880 Speaker 2: days off. Right at Thanksgiving, family comes in, we get 351 00:21:43,880 --> 00:21:47,119 Speaker 2: to go hunt, and that's really their season. 352 00:21:47,720 --> 00:21:50,280 Speaker 1: Well what happens in a few years if we don't 353 00:21:50,320 --> 00:21:52,879 Speaker 1: do anything and then everything goes to a draw tag 354 00:21:53,600 --> 00:21:56,280 Speaker 1: and now these guys just can't hunt at all. Thanksgiving 355 00:21:56,359 --> 00:21:58,920 Speaker 1: they're still sitting around the TV because they didn't draw tags. 356 00:22:00,000 --> 00:22:03,480 Speaker 1: At least this way, we're still getting an opportunity to hunt. 357 00:22:04,160 --> 00:22:06,240 Speaker 4: And it's I mean, you know, you've still got the 358 00:22:06,240 --> 00:22:09,719 Speaker 4: white tail rut hunt going on during that time, and 359 00:22:10,680 --> 00:22:14,040 Speaker 4: elk are still open, and so I don't you know, 360 00:22:14,080 --> 00:22:19,040 Speaker 4: I think I think it does change. It certainly changes 361 00:22:19,160 --> 00:22:22,720 Speaker 4: the way that people hunt. And that's it's a big 362 00:22:22,720 --> 00:22:24,600 Speaker 4: thing to give up. It's a big thing to ask 363 00:22:24,680 --> 00:22:29,439 Speaker 4: people to consider changing. And you know, the truth is 364 00:22:29,520 --> 00:22:31,719 Speaker 4: meal deer at the bottom of a ten year cycle. 365 00:22:31,840 --> 00:22:34,439 Speaker 4: They need a little bit of a break and this 366 00:22:34,600 --> 00:22:36,280 Speaker 4: is a way to do that. And the one thing, 367 00:22:36,520 --> 00:22:39,399 Speaker 4: like you know, you look at every other state, like regulations, 368 00:22:39,920 --> 00:22:42,880 Speaker 4: hunting season structure changes a lot from year to year. 369 00:22:42,960 --> 00:22:48,040 Speaker 4: Wyoming is a great example. You know, Montana has taken 370 00:22:48,080 --> 00:22:51,800 Speaker 4: a different approach to where you're looking at you know, 371 00:22:52,760 --> 00:22:55,879 Speaker 4: the calculus on on the end of the proposal is 372 00:22:56,000 --> 00:22:59,520 Speaker 4: are the current season structures giving us number one, the 373 00:22:59,600 --> 00:23:01,679 Speaker 4: kind of quality of hunt that people are looking for? 374 00:23:01,720 --> 00:23:04,720 Speaker 4: And number two, does it have the management outcomes the 375 00:23:04,800 --> 00:23:08,720 Speaker 4: agency is looking for? And I think from that aspect, 376 00:23:08,800 --> 00:23:11,080 Speaker 4: I think, you know, six and five may not be 377 00:23:11,160 --> 00:23:14,640 Speaker 4: doing exactly what we think it should be, especially when 378 00:23:14,680 --> 00:23:16,800 Speaker 4: you throw an elk overlay on top of that and 379 00:23:16,840 --> 00:23:21,480 Speaker 4: you start to see problematic concentrations of elk on private land. 380 00:23:22,800 --> 00:23:25,000 Speaker 4: You know, we've had landowners tell us that they get 381 00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:28,720 Speaker 4: elk on their property the first day of archery season 382 00:23:29,480 --> 00:23:33,840 Speaker 4: because those elk are now conditioned through that repeated six 383 00:23:33,880 --> 00:23:40,119 Speaker 4: and five pattern to head to sanctuary. And so, you know, 384 00:23:40,200 --> 00:23:41,919 Speaker 4: and that's why elk are a part of this, is 385 00:23:41,960 --> 00:23:45,160 Speaker 4: if we want to try and increase hunter's success, because 386 00:23:45,240 --> 00:23:47,960 Speaker 4: right now hunter success on public land for Montana elk 387 00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:52,720 Speaker 4: hunters is twenty percent. That's it's about where Colorado is, 388 00:23:52,760 --> 00:23:57,200 Speaker 4: and Colorado's you know, already looking at doing a big curtailment, 389 00:23:57,320 --> 00:23:59,399 Speaker 4: especially on the non resident elk side. 390 00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:02,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that passed, didn't it. 391 00:24:02,440 --> 00:24:04,320 Speaker 4: I think you're right, Yeah, I think it did. I 392 00:24:04,400 --> 00:24:07,040 Speaker 4: think that was what earlier this week or late last week. 393 00:24:08,040 --> 00:24:10,280 Speaker 4: So you know, I think other states are starting to 394 00:24:10,320 --> 00:24:13,160 Speaker 4: see a pressure problem, and that's what the proposals really 395 00:24:13,200 --> 00:24:16,760 Speaker 4: trying to deal with is how do we how do 396 00:24:16,840 --> 00:24:19,119 Speaker 4: we spread that hunter pressure out to a point where 397 00:24:20,119 --> 00:24:24,919 Speaker 4: elks start to select public land more during the regular seasons. 398 00:24:25,680 --> 00:24:30,240 Speaker 4: We're not just you know, throwing pressure at elk from 399 00:24:30,480 --> 00:24:36,040 Speaker 4: August fifteenth to February fifteenth, because it's just it's just 400 00:24:36,119 --> 00:24:40,280 Speaker 4: compounding that concentration issue in some areas, some areas shoulder seasons, 401 00:24:40,880 --> 00:24:43,239 Speaker 4: you know, they're having the intended effect, and in like 402 00:24:43,320 --> 00:24:46,800 Speaker 4: Region two, some of them are going away because they've worked. 403 00:24:47,560 --> 00:24:50,040 Speaker 4: But you know the fact that we're now what almost 404 00:24:50,040 --> 00:24:52,840 Speaker 4: ten years deep into shoulder seasons, which are a temporary 405 00:24:52,840 --> 00:24:57,679 Speaker 4: effex and we're still plowing forward with them. You know 406 00:24:57,760 --> 00:24:59,919 Speaker 4: that that means we're still not getting the kind of 407 00:25:00,040 --> 00:25:03,600 Speaker 4: harvest during the regular season where we used to get 408 00:25:03,600 --> 00:25:08,040 Speaker 4: that level of harvest. To you know, give landowners a 409 00:25:08,080 --> 00:25:12,600 Speaker 4: break from constant hunter pressure, to give hunters a better 410 00:25:12,680 --> 00:25:15,000 Speaker 4: experience in the field where they actually get to bring 411 00:25:15,080 --> 00:25:18,400 Speaker 4: something home more than two out of every ten times, 412 00:25:19,520 --> 00:25:24,200 Speaker 4: and you know, you start to kind of bring those 413 00:25:24,240 --> 00:25:27,600 Speaker 4: stakeholders together to figure out a problem where you know, 414 00:25:27,640 --> 00:25:32,680 Speaker 4: if it's problematic concentration. You know, the hunting community has 415 00:25:32,680 --> 00:25:35,040 Speaker 4: had solutions to this for decades, but they don't get 416 00:25:35,080 --> 00:25:38,639 Speaker 4: implemented because they don't work on the rancher end. But 417 00:25:38,840 --> 00:25:42,680 Speaker 4: now suddenly ranchers, outfitters and hunters working together, ranchers are 418 00:25:42,720 --> 00:25:45,879 Speaker 4: able to you know, it's a peer group. It's just 419 00:25:45,920 --> 00:25:48,920 Speaker 4: like we go talk to other hunters about ethical issues. 420 00:25:49,480 --> 00:25:51,879 Speaker 4: Landowners get to go talk to other hunters or to 421 00:25:51,920 --> 00:25:55,240 Speaker 4: other landowners about Hey, look, you know we're trying to 422 00:25:55,320 --> 00:25:57,560 Speaker 4: do this thing. We're trying to get these people in here. 423 00:25:57,600 --> 00:25:59,320 Speaker 4: Can you guys help? Can you do X, Y and 424 00:25:59,480 --> 00:26:02,199 Speaker 4: Z like it? You know, it starts to build that 425 00:26:02,240 --> 00:26:04,720 Speaker 4: broader community when these guys sit down and talk to 426 00:26:04,760 --> 00:26:06,760 Speaker 4: each other. And I think we're starting to see that too. 427 00:26:08,440 --> 00:26:11,679 Speaker 4: You know, the outfitter guys going around to brandings this 428 00:26:11,760 --> 00:26:14,479 Speaker 4: year have all, you know, reported back a lot of 429 00:26:15,040 --> 00:26:19,240 Speaker 4: positive thought from landowners who you know, allow public hunting, 430 00:26:19,240 --> 00:26:22,040 Speaker 4: whether they're in block management or it's you know, friends 431 00:26:22,040 --> 00:26:24,800 Speaker 4: and family or whatever. You know, they're all saying the 432 00:26:24,840 --> 00:26:28,120 Speaker 4: same thing as hunting pressures too much. We got too 433 00:26:28,119 --> 00:26:31,080 Speaker 4: many olt concentrating. We got to figure out a different way. 434 00:26:32,160 --> 00:26:36,840 Speaker 4: And so when when you take that global view, that 435 00:26:36,960 --> 00:26:40,160 Speaker 4: fifty thousand foot view of like the hunting season structure 436 00:26:41,119 --> 00:26:45,119 Speaker 4: and for the three species in that timeframe, what is 437 00:26:46,440 --> 00:26:48,320 Speaker 4: you know, what does that timeframe look like from the 438 00:26:48,400 --> 00:26:53,280 Speaker 4: hunter perspective, outfitter perspective, landowner perspective, and then from the 439 00:26:53,400 --> 00:26:56,199 Speaker 4: mule deer perspective At the central piece of it, I 440 00:26:56,240 --> 00:26:59,760 Speaker 4: think this proposal really kind of works as that catch all, 441 00:27:00,359 --> 00:27:01,440 Speaker 4: not saying it's you know one. 442 00:27:02,240 --> 00:27:06,320 Speaker 5: But yeah, that's just kind of the reasoning behind how. 443 00:27:06,119 --> 00:27:08,800 Speaker 4: It kind of blew up from let's, you know, let's 444 00:27:08,800 --> 00:27:12,280 Speaker 4: save some mulder bucks to what it is now. It's 445 00:27:12,359 --> 00:27:16,359 Speaker 4: just the more you start pulling threads, the more of 446 00:27:16,359 --> 00:27:20,359 Speaker 4: that sweater starts unraveling, unless it's a first light sweater 447 00:27:20,359 --> 00:27:21,679 Speaker 4: because they're made too well for that. 448 00:27:22,200 --> 00:27:26,960 Speaker 2: They're all thank you, Ben, thank you BN. Well, you 449 00:27:26,960 --> 00:27:29,760 Speaker 2: know it's not a traditional knit. That's you know, it's 450 00:27:29,800 --> 00:27:36,920 Speaker 2: not gonna unravel anyway. So this proposal has been put 451 00:27:36,960 --> 00:27:39,520 Speaker 2: together with a diverse group of stakeholders that's trying to 452 00:27:39,560 --> 00:27:41,720 Speaker 2: represent the stage as a whole, which is very difficult 453 00:27:41,720 --> 00:27:47,640 Speaker 2: to do. Everybody knows that the object is to give 454 00:27:47,720 --> 00:27:52,800 Speaker 2: mule deer a break, ideally at a time when they 455 00:27:52,800 --> 00:27:56,800 Speaker 2: need it most habitat stuff aside. Like you said, they're 456 00:27:56,800 --> 00:28:00,800 Speaker 2: at the bottom of a ten year cycle. And we 457 00:28:02,200 --> 00:28:06,879 Speaker 2: just like we would with like predator management, right there's cyclical, 458 00:28:08,400 --> 00:28:12,000 Speaker 2: we would come in and manage a predator population. The 459 00:28:12,040 --> 00:28:18,800 Speaker 2: predators in this case would be hunter pressure, which basically 460 00:28:18,840 --> 00:28:21,679 Speaker 2: when these deer the most vulnerable to rut, we're going 461 00:28:21,760 --> 00:28:26,880 Speaker 2: to take the general hunting pressure off. That pressure would 462 00:28:26,880 --> 00:28:31,040 Speaker 2: still exist in our special management units. The proposal as 463 00:28:31,080 --> 00:28:35,960 Speaker 2: it's written right now, has been circulated to conservation groups 464 00:28:37,160 --> 00:28:41,240 Speaker 2: Montana Fish Wildlife and parks. And then where does it 465 00:28:41,280 --> 00:28:44,200 Speaker 2: go from here? Does it go to a general public 466 00:28:44,680 --> 00:28:47,520 Speaker 2: It's available on a website, sign up here, we need 467 00:28:47,640 --> 00:28:52,920 Speaker 2: signatures on a petition, or does it just get formally 468 00:28:53,040 --> 00:29:00,240 Speaker 2: submitted with those conservation groups as signees to Montana Fish 469 00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:02,880 Speaker 2: Wildlife in parts? How does how does the process work? 470 00:29:02,920 --> 00:29:03,400 Speaker 2: From here? 471 00:29:04,440 --> 00:29:04,680 Speaker 5: Yeah? 472 00:29:04,800 --> 00:29:10,520 Speaker 4: So so the process is pretty loosey goosey, quite frankly. 473 00:29:12,360 --> 00:29:17,600 Speaker 4: We're going through the feedback that we receive from individuals 474 00:29:17,680 --> 00:29:22,560 Speaker 4: and from the various organizations. We are going to incorporate 475 00:29:22,600 --> 00:29:25,000 Speaker 4: that into a new draft that'll be out in a 476 00:29:25,040 --> 00:29:30,000 Speaker 4: couple of weeks, and that draft will have a bibliography 477 00:29:30,320 --> 00:29:33,880 Speaker 4: as well as a compendium of the comments that we've received. 478 00:29:35,680 --> 00:29:40,520 Speaker 4: We'll have that on a web page, a landing page 479 00:29:40,560 --> 00:29:43,880 Speaker 4: for it that will get pulled together once I learn 480 00:29:44,240 --> 00:29:48,720 Speaker 4: how to do that. But you know, if if I 481 00:29:48,840 --> 00:29:52,440 Speaker 4: learned how to set up a fish finder with site imaging, 482 00:29:52,480 --> 00:29:54,640 Speaker 4: I figure I can set up a web page pretty quickly, 483 00:29:56,520 --> 00:29:58,800 Speaker 4: So you know, like that's kind of the next thing. 484 00:29:58,880 --> 00:30:01,840 Speaker 4: And then there's there's some legislative components to this that 485 00:30:02,040 --> 00:30:05,440 Speaker 4: we're going to be talking with some legislators about, We're 486 00:30:05,440 --> 00:30:07,760 Speaker 4: talking with the agency about them. Some of them are 487 00:30:07,760 --> 00:30:11,800 Speaker 4: going to be a little controversial, some of them. I 488 00:30:12,600 --> 00:30:14,920 Speaker 4: you know, I think we may have a pretty good 489 00:30:14,920 --> 00:30:19,600 Speaker 4: shot of getting them through, and so I think, you know, 490 00:30:19,680 --> 00:30:23,600 Speaker 4: the next big step is the legislature, which is suddenly 491 00:30:23,640 --> 00:30:28,760 Speaker 4: six months out, and then you know, AT will continue 492 00:30:28,800 --> 00:30:32,320 Speaker 4: to talk with the agency, talk with NGOs everybody else. 493 00:30:33,920 --> 00:30:36,080 Speaker 4: But you know, I think everybody in the group does 494 00:30:36,120 --> 00:30:38,760 Speaker 4: not feel like this proposal is in a final form. 495 00:30:38,920 --> 00:30:42,200 Speaker 4: They want feedback, they want to see what other people 496 00:30:42,240 --> 00:30:45,960 Speaker 4: are thinking. You know, huge kudos to the folks who 497 00:30:46,000 --> 00:30:49,239 Speaker 4: have stepped up to do that, and you know, like 498 00:30:49,280 --> 00:30:51,720 Speaker 4: the you know, like anything, I think people feel like 499 00:30:51,720 --> 00:30:54,080 Speaker 4: they're kind of screaming into the wilderness until they see 500 00:30:54,120 --> 00:30:56,880 Speaker 4: their name in print on a document that says, hey, 501 00:30:56,920 --> 00:31:00,080 Speaker 4: we heard you. But you know, I think that I 502 00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:02,800 Speaker 4: think people have really responded well to the call for comments, 503 00:31:02,840 --> 00:31:07,880 Speaker 4: and ninety to ninety nine percent have been pretty substantive 504 00:31:07,920 --> 00:31:09,080 Speaker 4: in good comments. 505 00:31:09,960 --> 00:31:12,120 Speaker 3: I think it probably be worth mentioning too. 506 00:31:12,200 --> 00:31:15,400 Speaker 1: We haven't had any organizations yet come out and like 507 00:31:15,640 --> 00:31:19,600 Speaker 1: full on thumbs up, this is phenomenal. We're backing you guys, 508 00:31:20,000 --> 00:31:22,880 Speaker 1: but we've got we're being looked at. 509 00:31:23,320 --> 00:31:25,560 Speaker 3: Everybody's just kind of got an eye on this right now. 510 00:31:25,560 --> 00:31:26,240 Speaker 3: It seems like. 511 00:31:26,520 --> 00:31:28,720 Speaker 4: Yeah, and it's it is really early days. 512 00:31:29,840 --> 00:31:32,520 Speaker 2: And are you just to clarify, are you looking for 513 00:31:33,560 --> 00:31:40,240 Speaker 2: legislative support or does this actually need this season setting 514 00:31:41,080 --> 00:31:45,640 Speaker 2: regulation change? Does this need to go through a legislative 515 00:31:46,320 --> 00:31:48,480 Speaker 2: approval process? 516 00:31:48,560 --> 00:31:52,959 Speaker 4: So the only thing that really needs legislative approval within 517 00:31:53,120 --> 00:31:58,080 Speaker 4: the proposal itself for the change in season structure would 518 00:31:58,080 --> 00:32:03,040 Speaker 4: be to make a very small modification to the Muzzleloader 519 00:32:03,080 --> 00:32:08,560 Speaker 4: Statute to eliminate the prescription of when the agency should 520 00:32:08,640 --> 00:32:12,600 Speaker 4: hold it. Because it makes the agency hold a season 521 00:32:12,640 --> 00:32:16,600 Speaker 4: in a very specific timeframe. You know, not that anybody 522 00:32:16,680 --> 00:32:19,120 Speaker 4: thinks that the muzzleloader hunt needs to go away or 523 00:32:19,120 --> 00:32:20,640 Speaker 4: that it isn't a great opportunity. 524 00:32:20,800 --> 00:32:22,280 Speaker 5: It's just we. 525 00:32:22,120 --> 00:32:25,120 Speaker 4: Want the agency and the Commission to have the flexibility 526 00:32:25,200 --> 00:32:27,840 Speaker 4: to put that season where it's not going to cause 527 00:32:28,440 --> 00:32:32,400 Speaker 4: irreparable harm. You know, like there's a lot of concern about, 528 00:32:33,760 --> 00:32:36,760 Speaker 4: you know, over snow travel with snowmobiles, going after mature 529 00:32:36,800 --> 00:32:40,720 Speaker 4: bowls in the back country type stuff when those closed 530 00:32:40,800 --> 00:32:43,720 Speaker 4: for service roads open back up. You know, it's things 531 00:32:43,800 --> 00:32:49,280 Speaker 4: like that. The other three pieces that are in the 532 00:32:49,320 --> 00:32:55,320 Speaker 4: proposal that require legislative work. When you again, when you 533 00:32:55,360 --> 00:32:58,440 Speaker 4: look at it, you know, en Mass, it all works together. 534 00:32:59,080 --> 00:33:03,760 Speaker 4: But the other three pieces in there are remove the 535 00:33:04,120 --> 00:33:11,160 Speaker 4: orphaned deer license over sell twenty fifteen f to BP 536 00:33:11,400 --> 00:33:16,120 Speaker 4: was given the authority to resell the deer license that 537 00:33:16,160 --> 00:33:20,280 Speaker 4: gets turned back in with the deer ELK combo, and 538 00:33:20,360 --> 00:33:22,560 Speaker 4: so they could resell that as a new B eleven 539 00:33:22,680 --> 00:33:25,040 Speaker 4: or the deer combo. And that's that's where you see 540 00:33:25,080 --> 00:33:31,920 Speaker 4: the biggest growth in non resident opportunity in Montana. And 541 00:33:31,960 --> 00:33:35,320 Speaker 4: it's almost doubled that sixty six hundred. It's technically not 542 00:33:35,440 --> 00:33:39,080 Speaker 4: a new license, but up until twenty fifteen you turned 543 00:33:39,080 --> 00:33:42,000 Speaker 4: it in, it didn't get reissued, so it's a it's 544 00:33:42,000 --> 00:33:45,680 Speaker 4: a reissuing. The issue with that is we have to 545 00:33:45,680 --> 00:33:49,280 Speaker 4: figure out what the pay for is and you know, 546 00:33:49,320 --> 00:33:51,400 Speaker 4: we think there's about a four to five million dollar 547 00:33:51,560 --> 00:33:56,760 Speaker 4: loss and that's that's really important conservation funding that can't 548 00:33:56,800 --> 00:33:59,360 Speaker 4: be lost. So you know, there has to be a 549 00:33:59,400 --> 00:34:04,640 Speaker 4: pay for it there. You know, traditionally that's been you know, 550 00:34:05,040 --> 00:34:08,239 Speaker 4: countered with resident license fee increases. Those are really difficult 551 00:34:08,320 --> 00:34:11,560 Speaker 4: to do, but you know, that's one of the pieces 552 00:34:11,560 --> 00:34:13,759 Speaker 4: that's in there, and that would cut about I think 553 00:34:13,800 --> 00:34:18,319 Speaker 4: about sixty five to seventy five hundred non resident deer 554 00:34:18,400 --> 00:34:21,480 Speaker 4: hunters out. But it is a significant hit to the budget. 555 00:34:21,560 --> 00:34:24,920 Speaker 4: So we've got to be careful with that. And then 556 00:34:25,080 --> 00:34:28,840 Speaker 4: the other two pieces, you know, improve retention for f 557 00:34:28,920 --> 00:34:32,440 Speaker 4: WP biologists and wardens. I think that gets to the 558 00:34:32,440 --> 00:34:36,319 Speaker 4: biological aspect. You know, Montana is not really that much 559 00:34:36,360 --> 00:34:40,840 Speaker 4: different than other states. You know, it's tough to recruit 560 00:34:40,920 --> 00:34:45,960 Speaker 4: people into those government positions, especially if they're not the 561 00:34:46,040 --> 00:34:51,280 Speaker 4: highest paid positions regionally, and so f WP's pay scale 562 00:34:51,400 --> 00:34:54,120 Speaker 4: is on the low side for the wharden and biologist, 563 00:34:54,200 --> 00:34:56,680 Speaker 4: and so the guys wanted to take a look to 564 00:34:56,680 --> 00:34:58,840 Speaker 4: see what we could do to you know, help improve 565 00:34:58,960 --> 00:35:03,440 Speaker 4: that situation. You know. Plus, if you look at you 566 00:35:03,440 --> 00:35:05,680 Speaker 4: know how some other agencies are doing housing as. 567 00:35:05,640 --> 00:35:06,680 Speaker 5: Well as other states. 568 00:35:07,280 --> 00:35:10,720 Speaker 4: You know, like Wyoming offers housing to wardens and bios 569 00:35:10,760 --> 00:35:15,680 Speaker 4: who live in expensive areas. You know, Montana could do 570 00:35:15,880 --> 00:35:18,440 Speaker 4: this again. They used to do something like this. I 571 00:35:18,440 --> 00:35:21,200 Speaker 4: think a few places there's like I think the Sheridan 572 00:35:21,360 --> 00:35:27,839 Speaker 4: FWP office is the biologists house. So, you know, try 573 00:35:27,880 --> 00:35:31,160 Speaker 4: and figure out some incentives for staff to you know, 574 00:35:31,719 --> 00:35:36,000 Speaker 4: keep good people and bring in replacements. As you know, 575 00:35:36,040 --> 00:35:38,359 Speaker 4: folks retire out and we start to lose a lot 576 00:35:38,360 --> 00:35:39,840 Speaker 4: of that institutional knowledge. 577 00:35:40,760 --> 00:35:43,960 Speaker 2: Huge deal here in the Gallatin County, I know, I 578 00:35:44,000 --> 00:35:46,680 Speaker 2: know a lot of people are excited to get the 579 00:35:46,760 --> 00:35:49,640 Speaker 2: job until they realize they have to live in their 580 00:35:49,680 --> 00:35:53,480 Speaker 2: truck in order to serve the people of Montana because 581 00:35:53,480 --> 00:35:55,240 Speaker 2: of the cost of living in Gallatin Valleys. 582 00:35:55,280 --> 00:35:55,720 Speaker 5: Insane. 583 00:35:56,160 --> 00:36:01,440 Speaker 4: Yeah, we tell our wardens here's a yeah, here's the 584 00:36:01,480 --> 00:36:04,880 Speaker 4: three eight and a forty go police aside a place 585 00:36:04,960 --> 00:36:07,840 Speaker 4: the size of Rhode Island. And by the way, you 586 00:36:07,880 --> 00:36:14,319 Speaker 4: don't have backup or affordable housing. It makes it tough, right, 587 00:36:14,480 --> 00:36:17,520 Speaker 4: It's you know, we've I've had biologists tell me, like 588 00:36:17,640 --> 00:36:21,440 Speaker 4: every week I look at other states and you know, 589 00:36:21,520 --> 00:36:23,440 Speaker 4: then they all say the same thing. But then I 590 00:36:23,480 --> 00:36:26,520 Speaker 4: saw the sunrise and I think, I just can't leave. 591 00:36:29,040 --> 00:36:32,120 Speaker 4: But those you know, those folks do so much and 592 00:36:33,200 --> 00:36:36,560 Speaker 4: they really deserve an honest wage. And so that's that's 593 00:36:36,560 --> 00:36:38,560 Speaker 4: one of the things that we're interested in. And then 594 00:36:39,160 --> 00:36:43,879 Speaker 4: the last is mandatory reporting. You know, the thought here 595 00:36:44,000 --> 00:36:46,920 Speaker 4: is we need some better data. The phone surveys have 596 00:36:47,000 --> 00:36:50,920 Speaker 4: been good, but they've probably outlived their usefulness, especially in 597 00:36:50,960 --> 00:36:54,000 Speaker 4: a digital age when you know, not everybody's picking up. 598 00:36:53,960 --> 00:36:55,239 Speaker 5: The landline anymore. 599 00:36:57,560 --> 00:37:00,160 Speaker 4: So, you know, the mandatory reporting thing, we still go 600 00:37:00,200 --> 00:37:02,560 Speaker 4: back and forth with a lot of people on who 601 00:37:02,680 --> 00:37:06,080 Speaker 4: don't feel like it's needed. But I think the vast 602 00:37:06,080 --> 00:37:09,439 Speaker 4: majority of you know, I know, everybody on that's worked 603 00:37:09,440 --> 00:37:12,560 Speaker 4: on the proposal feels like it's a necessary thing. 604 00:37:12,760 --> 00:37:14,799 Speaker 5: I think with you know, with the new website, with. 605 00:37:14,760 --> 00:37:16,920 Speaker 4: The new app, with all of that, the technology is 606 00:37:17,000 --> 00:37:19,799 Speaker 4: probably there to figure out a way to do. 607 00:37:19,760 --> 00:37:22,440 Speaker 5: It and give the agency the tools they need to 608 00:37:22,560 --> 00:37:24,280 Speaker 5: enact it. Yeah. 609 00:37:24,480 --> 00:37:29,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, I like more, better, more data. Yeah, as we're 610 00:37:29,000 --> 00:37:31,680 Speaker 2: seeing in a lot of other states that lack of 611 00:37:31,800 --> 00:37:37,799 Speaker 2: data can be weaponized to eliminate seasons. Yeah, so why 612 00:37:37,840 --> 00:37:40,279 Speaker 2: not get it while we can while it's easy. So 613 00:37:41,239 --> 00:37:44,920 Speaker 2: I like that. Well, guys, where should folks go to 614 00:37:44,960 --> 00:37:49,880 Speaker 2: find more information if they want to be more informed 615 00:37:49,960 --> 00:37:55,440 Speaker 2: and eventually way in on season setting regulation change here 616 00:37:55,440 --> 00:37:56,920 Speaker 2: in the state of Montana. 617 00:37:57,800 --> 00:38:01,840 Speaker 4: For right now, shoot me an email. Will We'll have 618 00:38:02,000 --> 00:38:04,120 Speaker 4: the landing page up in the next week or two. 619 00:38:04,400 --> 00:38:08,799 Speaker 4: I will shoot that information to you. It's just not 620 00:38:08,960 --> 00:38:11,080 Speaker 4: done yet, so. 621 00:38:11,480 --> 00:38:13,839 Speaker 2: And give me give us your email one more time. 622 00:38:13,920 --> 00:38:18,880 Speaker 4: Be sure it's Ben LAMB one B E N L 623 00:38:18,920 --> 00:38:25,240 Speaker 4: A M B the numeral one at gmail dot com. 624 00:38:26,080 --> 00:38:30,920 Speaker 2: Awesome, Awesome, And I think this is interesting for all 625 00:38:31,040 --> 00:38:33,839 Speaker 2: of our listeners that are not outside of the state 626 00:38:33,880 --> 00:38:37,160 Speaker 2: of Montana, or are that are outside of the state 627 00:38:37,160 --> 00:38:39,359 Speaker 2: of Montana, because I didn't hear a whole lot in here. 628 00:38:39,400 --> 00:38:44,560 Speaker 2: That's villainizing non residents. But if you like spending money 629 00:38:44,560 --> 00:38:48,240 Speaker 2: in the state of Montana, you need to pay attention 630 00:38:48,320 --> 00:38:51,760 Speaker 2: here because you got skin in the game, and everybody 631 00:38:51,840 --> 00:38:54,800 Speaker 2: within the state of Montana. Your ears should be perked 632 00:38:54,920 --> 00:38:58,840 Speaker 2: up on this one. If you don't get informed and 633 00:38:58,880 --> 00:39:02,520 Speaker 2: you don't weigh in, it's still gonna affect you. Maybe 634 00:39:02,560 --> 00:39:06,359 Speaker 2: not this proposal, but the next one. So uh right 635 00:39:06,480 --> 00:39:09,320 Speaker 2: in to a s k c A L. That's Askcal 636 00:39:09,360 --> 00:39:12,279 Speaker 2: at themeeater dot com. Give me all the questions you 637 00:39:12,320 --> 00:39:15,319 Speaker 2: got on this and we can always circle back with 638 00:39:15,400 --> 00:39:20,279 Speaker 2: Chris and Ben at a later date and see if 639 00:39:20,280 --> 00:39:25,320 Speaker 2: there's been any changes to the proposal and address those questions. So, guys, 640 00:39:25,760 --> 00:39:28,040 Speaker 2: anything else you want to say before signing off here. 641 00:39:28,400 --> 00:39:28,880 Speaker 5: Not for me. 642 00:39:28,960 --> 00:39:32,040 Speaker 4: Thanks so much for having us on, and congratulations on 643 00:39:33,200 --> 00:39:35,240 Speaker 4: your recent elevation to the b h A board. 644 00:39:35,280 --> 00:39:35,840 Speaker 5: That's awesome. 645 00:39:36,160 --> 00:39:40,439 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, everybody likes a good volunteer, right, that's right. Yeah, 646 00:39:40,560 --> 00:39:41,480 Speaker 2: I appreciate that. 647 00:39:42,120 --> 00:39:42,880 Speaker 3: I appreciate it. 648 00:39:42,960 --> 00:39:45,160 Speaker 5: Cal. There's no mule like a free. 649 00:39:45,040 --> 00:39:48,960 Speaker 2: Mule, that's right. That's right. Is old Randy Newburgh likes 650 00:39:48,960 --> 00:39:52,839 Speaker 2: to say, Uh, you don't don't give a good mule 651 00:39:52,880 --> 00:39:56,200 Speaker 2: a break, You pack them heavier, right, So, guys, thank 652 00:39:56,239 --> 00:40:00,560 Speaker 2: you so much for for weighing in on this mule. 653 00:40:00,600 --> 00:40:04,520 Speaker 2: Deer regulations or looking out for herd health is not 654 00:40:05,080 --> 00:40:08,959 Speaker 2: your day job, but you're spending your own personal time 655 00:40:09,000 --> 00:40:12,520 Speaker 2: to do it, and I appreciate where your concerns you're at, 656 00:40:12,560 --> 00:40:15,279 Speaker 2: So thank you so much. That's all I got for 657 00:40:15,360 --> 00:40:18,560 Speaker 2: you this week. Thank you so much for listening and 658 00:40:18,640 --> 00:40:21,480 Speaker 2: right in ask c A L. That's askal at the 659 00:40:21,520 --> 00:40:23,920 Speaker 2: meetmeater dot com. Let us know what's going on in 660 00:40:23,920 --> 00:40:25,680 Speaker 2: your neck of the woods. We appreciate it.