Speaker 1: Hi. My name is Cassidy Zachary and I am April
Speaker 1: Callaghan and we are fashion historian and co hosts and
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Speaker 1: in Treatment, a weekly podcast of shocking survivor experiences and
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Speaker 1: of one team treatment facility each season. First up, Provo
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Speaker 1: Treatment on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or
Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcasts. This is Ed Helms and
Speaker 1: I played Andy Bernard on the Office. Hello everybody, welcome back.
Speaker 1: This is the Office Deep Dive. In case you clicked
Speaker 1: on the wrong podcast, I'm your host Brian baum Gartner.
Speaker 1: Today I am delighted to bring you my conversation with
Speaker 1: America's banjo playing sweetheart Ed Helms. Um. Now, a lot
Speaker 1: of people don't know this. Ed and I knew each
Speaker 1: other very well. I mean very well. We went to
Speaker 1: the same high school. We went to the Westminster Schools
Speaker 1: in Atlanta, Georgia. We were in the same ensemble choir
Speaker 1: I think, or corral or something anyway where we sang
Speaker 1: back when I pretended to sing. He still sings, but
Speaker 1: I don't. I don't think so much anymore. But we
Speaker 1: had a bond and we're not just Georgians or Atlanta's.
Speaker 1: We are those things, but we are from the same
Speaker 1: high school in the same area and grew up with
Speaker 1: the same people. So our history is very very shared.
Speaker 1: And Ed and I lost. We weren't in touch for
Speaker 1: a number of years. He was doing stand up comedy
Speaker 1: and was on The Daily Show in New York and
Speaker 1: I was traveling around doing theater and eventually landed in
Speaker 1: Los Angeles. And when we were shooting the webisodes, this
Speaker 1: would have been the summer of two thousand and six,
Speaker 1: and uh, I was shooting a talking head and suddenly,
Speaker 1: right behind the camera, I see Greg Daniels walked by,
Speaker 1: followed by Ed Helms, and all I I can't even
Speaker 1: I don't even think at that moment, Oh, that's actor
Speaker 1: Ed Helms or that's Daily Show correspondent Ed Helms. My
Speaker 1: mind goes, that's why is Ed Helms here? My friend
Speaker 1: from high school? Like that's all. Like he didn't call
Speaker 1: and tell me he was coming. And uh, of course
Speaker 1: he was in the middle of an interview and tour
Speaker 1: with Greg Daniels, who he was meeting with about about
Speaker 1: coming on the Office starting in season three. So that
Speaker 1: was the first time I had seen him in a
Speaker 1: a long time. But oh, man, if you ever get
Speaker 1: a chance to spend in the evening with Ed Helms,
Speaker 1: you will not be disappointed. He is joyful above all else,
Speaker 1: more than any one else who was on the show,
Speaker 1: or maybe anyone that I've ever met. He is a joyful,
Speaker 1: soulfulful person. Soulful. I'm having trouble saying the word soulful,
Speaker 1: but I think I got it the second time. I
Speaker 1: don't know. Here is dead helms, Bubble and squeak. I
Speaker 1: love it. Bubble and squeak on Bubble and squeaker cookie
Speaker 1: every month left over from the nabb before. He dude,
Speaker 1: are wonderful. Oh my god, it's so good to see
Speaker 1: you too. You look so much older. Okay, alright, alright,
Speaker 1: here's your ginger snaps? What is that so funny? I
Speaker 1: don't know why that's there there for your assistant. Um,
Speaker 1: she just started well a week and a half ago,
Speaker 1: and you're not like I've never I've never had a
Speaker 1: conversation with her about ginger snaps. So do you like gingers? Well? Sure,
Speaker 1: who doesn't like ginger snap? I know, but it's that
Speaker 1: like a thing that you ask for when you go
Speaker 1: to work. Never, never, ever, have I ever asked for
Speaker 1: ginger snaps. Yeah, I don't know. How are you. When
Speaker 1: was the last time you were back in Atlanta? I
Speaker 1: haven't been to Atlanta, and way too long I did.
Speaker 1: I did three movies there over the last few years.
Speaker 1: But um, I am getting a little homesick for Atlanta,
Speaker 1: which I never thought i'd say. I'm very happy to
Speaker 1: be not living there, but but I do like it
Speaker 1: when I go back. Now, my last three years, I've
Speaker 1: shot movies in North Carolina, Mexico, and Columbus Georgia. And
Speaker 1: Columbus Georgia was the hottest. Yeah. Well, the hard part
Speaker 1: about hot weather in the South, and I really hope
Speaker 1: we can stick with weather as a subject. Sorry, but
Speaker 1: I love it. No, honestly, it's fun to talk about Georgia.
Speaker 1: I know, I know, I know from there, but it's
Speaker 1: it does there's no reprieve like in l A or
Speaker 1: in in desert climates, or or like even in the
Speaker 1: Northeast it cools off at night, whereas in the South
Speaker 1: there's no escape. Like if you're in the shade, you're
Speaker 1: still muggy and hot, and then when night comes, it's
Speaker 1: just a hot night. It's not like a cool like
Speaker 1: the temperature does not go down. Um. Autumn, Yeah, Halloween
Speaker 1: is when I miss miss Atlanta because that the autumn's
Speaker 1: they're so long, they're so it's so protracted, the trees
Speaker 1: are changing forever. That's when I get missed dive for right,
Speaker 1: So you moved out of Atlanta, you went to the Northeast.
Speaker 1: Now what were you doing right before you came onto
Speaker 1: the Office. I was on the Daily Show. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I've been on the Daily Show for four and a
Speaker 1: half years. And I had done a pilot for NBC
Speaker 1: for Kevin Riley. It was really fun. It was a
Speaker 1: multi camera pilot that I that the Daily Show let
Speaker 1: me kind of sneak away to do. It's just a
Speaker 1: few weeks of work and it did not get picked up,
Speaker 1: but it was a ton of fun. And then it
Speaker 1: went really well, and Kevin Riley was I guess he
Speaker 1: liked he liked me, so he so he made a
Speaker 1: talent deal with me at NBC. It's funny. I you know,
Speaker 1: I remember I remember being at the Daily Show and
Speaker 1: and and I knew Steve from the Daily Show. You
Speaker 1: worked with him. Yeah, we we overlapped, not very much,
Speaker 1: but an off that you know that we were acquaintances. Uh,
Speaker 1: we overlapped probably five or six months or something. And
Speaker 1: then I just remember getting word that he was gonna
Speaker 1: do the Office and just thinking like that is so perfect,
Speaker 1: that is going to be so good. So you knew
Speaker 1: the British version of it, Yes for sure. Yeah, I mean,
Speaker 1: I you know, I'm I'm a comedy nerd and was
Speaker 1: very much in the comedy universe. And uh, and so
Speaker 1: then the idea of I mean, Steve's character on the
Speaker 1: on the Daily Show was at its best when he
Speaker 1: was of sort of a version of Michael Scott, like
Speaker 1: not self aware, kind of usually less informed than everyone
Speaker 1: around him. Um, he was brilliant on the Daily Show
Speaker 1: because he really kind of pioneered the form of Daily
Speaker 1: Show segments in which the correspondent is the butt of
Speaker 1: the jokes, as opposed to really just making fun of
Speaker 1: somebody else, which, yeah, which is which is easy and
Speaker 1: means spirited. Usually it's kind of shooting fish in a
Speaker 1: bucket and it's not as interesting. But Steve kind of
Speaker 1: really shifted that and found this way of being kind
Speaker 1: of an idiot news reporter and that was so funny
Speaker 1: and fresh and and still able to get great satire
Speaker 1: into the pieces. Um, that's true. Often he played like
Speaker 1: the pseudo expert or the you know, the teacher in
Speaker 1: a way that then became yeah, just confident about the
Speaker 1: wrong things, right. And and so that's why when I
Speaker 1: heard he was going to do The Office. I just
Speaker 1: was like that, I mean, yes, Ricky Gervais is a genius,
Speaker 1: this version will also be great. Uh. And then it
Speaker 1: was and what's crazy, I think I told you this
Speaker 1: recently too, is that was so around that time, I
Speaker 1: was just sort of looking for my exit strategy from
Speaker 1: the Daily Show. I loved working there, but I knew
Speaker 1: that I had to just shake things up because I
Speaker 1: was really starting to feel like in a rut. So
Speaker 1: I was auditioning for a lot of things, and I did.
Speaker 1: I got. I auditioned for the The Office, like the
Speaker 1: original cast of The Office in you auditioned for Jim.
Speaker 1: Is that right? Yes, I'm almost positive. Then I auditioned
Speaker 1: for Jim. Yeah. And you know, obviously it would have
Speaker 1: been a better show if I were him, clearly, Um,
Speaker 1: but this wasn't you were in New York because in
Speaker 1: New York City, and and you know, I went to
Speaker 1: thirty Rock at the casting office there, and I forget
Speaker 1: the casting director's name. It was the head of casting
Speaker 1: for NBC in New York. In New York. Yeah, Um,
Speaker 1: and I just went in it was I was I
Speaker 1: was excited about it because I knew the British for vision,
Speaker 1: but I wasn't super optimistic or anything, and I don't
Speaker 1: remember it being an especially good or bad audition. I
Speaker 1: just kind of went in and I'd love to see
Speaker 1: the tape. I don't know if it's so so great.
Speaker 1: I know that, but like, yeah, Rain and Jenna's and
Speaker 1: I've seen a few of them out there, but that's
Speaker 1: so crazy that funny. I'll ask Allison Jones, um, so okay.
Speaker 1: So then so you don't get Jim. Don't get Jim.
Speaker 1: It's just sort of back to business as usual at
Speaker 1: the Daily Show. I'm trying to cultivate some ideas to
Speaker 1: bring back to NBC, maybe just you know, on the
Speaker 1: off chance that they take a shot on developing a
Speaker 1: real show with me. And I was out here for
Speaker 1: some reason and Borg came down. Why don't you meet
Speaker 1: with Greg and just have a chat. And so I
Speaker 1: went in and we had a chat and it was great.
Speaker 1: I remember Greg had seen this short that I did
Speaker 1: with my friend Nick Poppy called Zombie American, and it
Speaker 1: was it was basically a mockumentary about a zombie just
Speaker 1: trying to get out on the dating scene and all
Speaker 1: the sort of um, all the pitfalls of being like
Speaker 1: why being a zombie is like a was the problem,
Speaker 1: it's a liability on the on the dating scene. And uh.
Speaker 1: It was you know, tiny little short with no budget,
Speaker 1: but we spent all the money on the zombie makeup.
Speaker 1: So it was like a hard commitment to full on
Speaker 1: press thattic zombie, which made it super funny because I
Speaker 1: the character was just a guy talking to the camera
Speaker 1: and you know, talking about how like it's awkward on
Speaker 1: a date when your finger falls off or or um
Speaker 1: or when people you show up for a blind date
Speaker 1: and they see you from afar and turn and walk
Speaker 1: away and and and it was like a this really poignant,
Speaker 1: very real but also obviously very silly piece and it's
Speaker 1: it was like a ten minute short. And Greg had
Speaker 1: seen that. I don't know how it was not out there,
Speaker 1: but um, he'd gotten his hands on it. That I
Speaker 1: think was probably my best foot forward as an office character,
Speaker 1: because it was talking heads to the camera. It was
Speaker 1: small performance, it was very it was just totally in
Speaker 1: the same family as the office, so that was part
Speaker 1: of the conversation. And then they then he and Paul
Speaker 1: Paul Lieberstein came in and he started talking about this
Speaker 1: character Andy Connecticut yacht club spoiled and obviously we're not
Speaker 1: from Connecticut, we're not from yacht clubs, but we're from
Speaker 1: you know, we went to prep school in Atlanta with
Speaker 1: I think kids that are totally analogous to Andy Bernard,
Speaker 1: and so it was a type that I understood immediately,
Speaker 1: white white belt with the just like yeah loafers upbraided
Speaker 1: white belt and holos and so knew that. So yeah,
Speaker 1: we just started talking about it and it and it
Speaker 1: was making us laugh and pitching kind of like, oh yeah,
Speaker 1: he probably took sailing lessons but never passed the test
Speaker 1: that allows you to actually take sailboats out from the
Speaker 1: club because he just wasn't good at I don't know,
Speaker 1: just like dumb fun stuff that when we were laughing
Speaker 1: about it, and then I went back to work at
Speaker 1: the Daily Show and got the call that hey, we're
Speaker 1: gonna do a couple of episodes, you know in this
Speaker 1: Scranton off I mean in the Stanford Stanford office, and
Speaker 1: I was told it would be two months of work.
Speaker 1: They had in mind eight episodes, I think. So I
Speaker 1: went to my ep at the Daily Show and I said, look,
Speaker 1: this is Steve's show, it's in the family. What do
Speaker 1: you say, Can I go and do this? It's two months,
Speaker 1: it's a long time. This was also right around the
Speaker 1: time that Colbert had left to do the Colbert Report.
Speaker 1: It just was kind of a fraught time for correspondence
Speaker 1: at the Daily Show. UM, and they were very skittish
Speaker 1: about it, and they were like, I just we don't
Speaker 1: think we can let you go. You know, it's there's
Speaker 1: a lot going on in the world and we just
Speaker 1: need And I was very I was very disappointed, but
Speaker 1: you know, tried to kind of understand that, and it
Speaker 1: put me in this bind where I was like, I
Speaker 1: can either resign from the Daily Show for two months
Speaker 1: of work or turned down the Office. And my analysis was, well,
Speaker 1: I've been on the Daily Show for four and a
Speaker 1: half years. There's nothing I can do on this show
Speaker 1: now that's gonna like change how I'm perceived out there.
Speaker 1: I'll get better and better and do hopefully do funnier
Speaker 1: and funnier stuff, but it's not no one's gonna see
Speaker 1: that I can act. No one's gonna see that I
Speaker 1: can do other stuff. And the Office was not a
Speaker 1: hit at this point either. Like it was. It was
Speaker 1: it was like a very show that I loved, but
Speaker 1: it was by no means like a sure thing to
Speaker 1: jump into. But I just decided it was worth the
Speaker 1: risk and I had to. I had like, even if
Speaker 1: I only worked for those eight weeks, I would have
Speaker 1: a really good new thing. So I took the plunge
Speaker 1: and the rest is history. As they say, it's a
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Speaker 1: the Perez family home, just waiting for the And there
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Speaker 1: your podcasts. So Gregg talked to me about the idea
Speaker 1: of Andy and Stanford as being basically to Jim Dwight
Speaker 1: in Scranton, but with a whole different demeanor, Right, Like
Speaker 1: you talked about preppy East Coast waspy, little ivy but
Speaker 1: incompetent and idiot, but in a totally different way than
Speaker 1: the trans am heavy metal dungeons and dragon weird nerd
Speaker 1: in in Scranton. Right, Were you aware of that? I
Speaker 1: don't think I understood at that time exactly how analogous
Speaker 1: Stanford was supposed to be to Scranton, And I didn't
Speaker 1: think too hard about it because It was really interesting
Speaker 1: because this we shot obviously, all of our stuff was
Speaker 1: on the on another set, and we didn't interact with
Speaker 1: you guys much at all during that time, just by
Speaker 1: virtue of the fact that we were shooting on separate
Speaker 1: stages at different times and different stories and all that stuff.
Speaker 1: So I really felt like we were in our own show,
Speaker 1: like we were kind of doing our own thing. Um.
Speaker 1: And it was instantly the most fun thing I've ever done.
Speaker 1: Like it was instantly. It just was so joyful. Rashida
Speaker 1: and I were kind of the new kids, like we
Speaker 1: we were a little click that kind of had each
Speaker 1: other's back. The writers were clearly having fun with our characters,
Speaker 1: which is the best. I mean, that's when it's you're
Speaker 1: really having fun. The writers were showing up to set
Speaker 1: and joking around with us, and John was I mean John,
Speaker 1: he obviously was such a stalwart of the show at
Speaker 1: that and and central character, so his disposition towards us
Speaker 1: really mattered, I think, to us and to our kind
Speaker 1: of like self esteem coming into this, and he could
Speaker 1: not have been more warm and fun and playful, and
Speaker 1: but like having the confidence of somebody who had been there.
Speaker 1: A couple of years or you know, it was really
Speaker 1: just a year, two seasons. Um. We just jelled and
Speaker 1: were instantly having fun and making each other laugh um
Speaker 1: a lot. It just felt great. Yeah, I never thought
Speaker 1: about this before until you started talking that. It's almost
Speaker 1: as though John, in the middle of doing a show,
Speaker 1: basically had a spin off that then was still a
Speaker 1: part of the same show, right, like a spin office
Speaker 1: taking a character and going and creating another show around
Speaker 1: that character in a different environment. And in a way,
Speaker 1: that's what was happening. I think looking back, I I mean,
Speaker 1: I think that that was a test of us about
Speaker 1: an actual spinoff. But I don't I mean, I'm not
Speaker 1: in Greg's head. I don't know the answer that. I've
Speaker 1: never asked him that, but I years later, looking back,
Speaker 1: it just seemed like it was just like a set
Speaker 1: up for a spin It's it's the way sitcomes at
Speaker 1: that time. We're spinning shows off, like you put someone
Speaker 1: in a new environment and all of a sudden introduced
Speaker 1: new characters and all of a sudden, like they're in
Speaker 1: a new times line. Um. But but I don't know that.
Speaker 1: I don't know if it's t or not. But you're
Speaker 1: you're right. It did. It was kind of a classic
Speaker 1: spinoff move. It just wound up re kind of merging
Speaker 1: back into the into the original show. Yeah, I've been
Speaker 1: thinking a lot about and you hear about the office.
Speaker 1: You think of the office as being sort of in
Speaker 1: a place of stasis, right that there's the bullpen, and
Speaker 1: that's what the office is, and people get used to that,
Speaker 1: and people like that, and they don't typically like it
Speaker 1: when something changes. But I felt like what Greg did,
Speaker 1: he kept, whether it was conscious or not, creating sort
Speaker 1: of a new kinetic energy by disrupting by making Jim
Speaker 1: go to Stanford, by making Pam go to art school,
Speaker 1: you know. And that helped the momentum of the show,
Speaker 1: and I think provided a stark relief for comparison because,
Speaker 1: like you were saying before, it really was an analog
Speaker 1: Chip as the boss was so different from Michael Scott
Speaker 1: like he was. He was sort of like the cool
Speaker 1: jock boss, right, but but problematic for other reasons, you know,
Speaker 1: like wanting to play Call of Duty all the time.
Speaker 1: And uh. And then I my my character being sort
Speaker 1: of like a Dwight analog, as you said, but totally different.
Speaker 1: Rashida being romantic competitor. It's all like, yeah, I think it.
Speaker 1: It's just served to really heighten all of what was
Speaker 1: great about Scranton. Yeah, so at some point you are
Speaker 1: told that you're going to stick around and now you're
Speaker 1: going to come in and join scrant How was that transition?
Speaker 1: So I can't remember when it became clear that I
Speaker 1: was going to stick around, if it was before we
Speaker 1: did started doing episodes in Scranton or after, because I
Speaker 1: think Andy's departure to Anger Management was sort of like
Speaker 1: the end of my agreed upon time. I can't quite
Speaker 1: remember all that timeline, but I will say this, those
Speaker 1: first few episodes in the Scranton office was like it's
Speaker 1: like a little kid walking into Yankee Stadium. Like even
Speaker 1: though the show wasn't huge, it was huge to me.
Speaker 1: And I loved it, and I loved what everybody was doing,
Speaker 1: and I just thought it was the funniest thing in
Speaker 1: the world. And so to walk in onto that set
Speaker 1: and actually have lines and have like fun stuff to do,
Speaker 1: I just felt like I was in the major leagues
Speaker 1: and uh in it, but not in an intimidating way,
Speaker 1: in a like supported way, and um, you guys, everyone
Speaker 1: was so cool right. It just was such a great
Speaker 1: group of people. Yeah. Uh, it was just fun. Well
Speaker 1: and and you know, now hearing more of the specifics
Speaker 1: of your story. Early on, I mean, we were all
Speaker 1: a group of actors that had had minimal to no
Speaker 1: six sess in television and film at that point, from
Speaker 1: varying degrees, like six months before I was doing theater
Speaker 1: and just just starting right. And you know, Steve had
Speaker 1: done obviously The Daily Show. But when even when Steve
Speaker 1: was on, it was kind of before The Daily Show
Speaker 1: was cool cool, it was it was the Bush administration
Speaker 1: that really I think launched it. I mean, Graig Kilborne
Speaker 1: was great and I was a fan from then, but
Speaker 1: again that's just because I'm a comedy nerd. I think
Speaker 1: in the zeitgeist, it really was George Bush that kind
Speaker 1: of catapulted the Daily Show. Um, and so yeah, everybody
Speaker 1: I think had the attitude that they had because no
Speaker 1: one seemed bigger than anybody else. You know, there wasn't
Speaker 1: the structure that exists where there's the star and there's
Speaker 1: the kind of star and there. You know, like everybody
Speaker 1: was kind of figuring it out. And as the show
Speaker 1: started to pick up and we were all sort of
Speaker 1: a part of that together. Yeah, I remember that that year,
Speaker 1: so I got kind of officially brought into the cast
Speaker 1: and was in the regular season after Anger Anger Management.
Speaker 1: I was just there. I was like part of the show.
Speaker 1: And the Emmys were around that time, and that year
Speaker 1: the Daily Show and the Office one Emmys for Best Show,
Speaker 1: and I was like, I'm doing something right. This is
Speaker 1: going pretty good. But that was that was really fun.
Speaker 1: That was and the Emmy's of course, was such a
Speaker 1: fun thing for the cast and everybody just oh man,
Speaker 1: those are those are great? The salad days, the salad days,
Speaker 1: good times. Hello, and welcome to our show. I'm Zoie
Speaker 1: de Channel and I'm so excited to be joined by
Speaker 1: my friends and cast mates Hannah Simone and lam More
Speaker 1: and more to recap our hit television series New Girl.
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Speaker 1: get your podcast. How much do you think the character
Speaker 1: of Andy is like you? Ed Well, I would say
Speaker 1: that not very He's not very much like me, but
Speaker 1: only because I'm I have better editing mechanisms for my
Speaker 1: own behavior. But I think a lot of Andy's impulses
Speaker 1: and instincts are you know, I relate to, Uh, He's
Speaker 1: just not self aware enough to put a check on them.
Speaker 1: There are things that I actually really envy about Andy
Speaker 1: that I wish I was more like um and the
Speaker 1: Angela storyline really I think brought that out that that
Speaker 1: was a thing that made me I mean, I was
Speaker 1: kind of loved Andy's douche baggery from a comedy standpoint,
Speaker 1: it's just fun and ridiculous. But the Angela stuff, like
Speaker 1: just seeing him really put his heart on his sleeve.
Speaker 1: I felt, that's when I really fell in love with
Speaker 1: this this character and I And that's something that I
Speaker 1: I've always struggled with. Maybe it's part of just our
Speaker 1: southern upbringing, but like expressing emotions in real ways and
Speaker 1: being transparent and being you know, just chasing something that
Speaker 1: you love and that means a lot to you. It's
Speaker 1: that was that's it was hard for me. It was
Speaker 1: hard for me to kind of mature in that way. Uh.
Speaker 1: And Andy is just he's the best, Like that's the
Speaker 1: he's he fell in love with Angela, and I was like,
Speaker 1: this is it. I'm all in and I love you
Speaker 1: and he and everybody knew it, and he was there
Speaker 1: was no shame, there was no kind of reticence. And
Speaker 1: I think I just always loved that about Andy. And
Speaker 1: I think that his rage was a kind of the
Speaker 1: flip side of that, like he just wasn't able to
Speaker 1: kind of control the expression of his emotions. Uh, and
Speaker 1: sometimes when he should have and it had beautiful consequences
Speaker 1: in in some of his romantic relationships and then obviously
Speaker 1: devastating consequences and in other ways. But I think that
Speaker 1: that's what you know, Greg and the other writers and
Speaker 1: you obviously in creating that Arcter and and everybody. But
Speaker 1: you know, we talked a lot about I've talked a
Speaker 1: lot about the more specific the characters are drawn, the
Speaker 1: more universal they become. And so you think, oh, let's
Speaker 1: paint in broad strokes, this is generally who this guy is, right,
Speaker 1: And it's the white braided belts and the polo shirts,
Speaker 1: and that's who that guy is. Okay, I get Andy,
Speaker 1: That's that's who Andy is. But no, he had one
Speaker 1: of the biggest hearts on the show and was able
Speaker 1: to express that in a really specific, true, genuine way,
Speaker 1: and that that dichotomy and complexity I feel like made
Speaker 1: him really real and lovable. Yeah, I think you're you're
Speaker 1: onto something specificity, which I think a lot of comedy
Speaker 1: writers sometimes shy away from because the the the instinct
Speaker 1: is like the more specific I draw a character, the
Speaker 1: more people won't relate to that character. But it's the opposite,
Speaker 1: Like to your point, it is the exact opposite, and
Speaker 1: I think of like, I was just having this conversation
Speaker 1: with a writer the other day about how John hughes
Speaker 1: movies we're you know, on paper, John Hughes shot all
Speaker 1: his movies in Glencoe, Illinois, which is one of the
Speaker 1: most affluent suburbs in the country. I mean, all mansions,
Speaker 1: all beautiful lawns, everything. You know, it shouldn't be relatable, right,
Speaker 1: that should be that should be alienating to everybody, And
Speaker 1: yet there's so much specificity in those characters. And that's
Speaker 1: what people find themselves in that specificity because audiences say,
Speaker 1: you know, I may not understand how a teenager can
Speaker 1: drive a BMW, but I can understand how that character
Speaker 1: is devastated by that breakup that they're having, or or
Speaker 1: the fact that the way that they're acting out, or
Speaker 1: the way that um this little passion that they have
Speaker 1: is getting made fun of by their friends or whatever. It's.
Speaker 1: It's those details allow more people to connect. Um. You
Speaker 1: talked about your relationship with with Angela Um and how
Speaker 1: that's how you began to fall in love with Andy Um.
Speaker 1: Do you think that his well, the fact that he
Speaker 1: was a cuckolt, like, did that begin to make him
Speaker 1: more sympathetic to audiences as well. Yeah, for sure. Uh,
Speaker 1: that was a pretty sly move, I think on the
Speaker 1: on Greg's part, I'm trying to kind of tap back
Speaker 1: into my my thoughts. At the time, it felt really
Speaker 1: fun to unleash that part of Andy because so much
Speaker 1: of what he did was antagonistic and sort of confrontational
Speaker 1: or passive aggressive. And for him to have to be
Speaker 1: putting positive energy out there, even though it was so
Speaker 1: misplaced or so well it was misapplied to Angela, that
Speaker 1: was so fun and it just it made It's part
Speaker 1: of what I think positive energy makes someone like, makes
Speaker 1: an audience like a character. Um, you don't get Angela
Speaker 1: and then Aaron shows up talk a little bit about
Speaker 1: that relationship because I didn't remember that you're love for
Speaker 1: her or your initial fascination starts like the first day
Speaker 1: she's there. It's like, oh, well, there's there's a new
Speaker 1: one in the office. Let's go for her. You've got
Speaker 1: no baggage with this person. We can write our own story.
Speaker 1: Let's start from scratch. Here we go. Yeah, that's yeah,
Speaker 1: that's great. Um. I think that in thinking about it,
Speaker 1: that the Andy and Aaron storyline becomes you know, kind
Speaker 1: of a parallel with what was happening what happened with
Speaker 1: Jim and Pam earlier. It just had a slightly more
Speaker 1: absurdist bent to it. There were still tender moments, there
Speaker 1: was still that longing on both sides. Um. But I
Speaker 1: think that I don't know, talk about that a little
Speaker 1: bit if if you recall your approach to it, or
Speaker 1: did the writers talk to you about where that relationship
Speaker 1: was going to go from the beginning or No, I
Speaker 1: don't think so. I don't think there was a uh
Speaker 1: an arc spelled out early on. But you know, Aaron's
Speaker 1: energy was just so funny and it felt right for
Speaker 1: Andy in a way, both of them being very left
Speaker 1: footed socially kind of made them perfect for each other,
Speaker 1: but also like gave them lots of stumbling. You know,
Speaker 1: it's like a pigeon toed person dancing with a bow
Speaker 1: legged person, like does this it looks like an egg beater?
Speaker 1: Like is this this is weird? Um? And I guess
Speaker 1: some it just felt right and fun and then there
Speaker 1: was a lot of um obviously, just a lot of
Speaker 1: complication that I think emerged in ways that Andy and
Speaker 1: Aaron sabotaged the relationships and their their own relationship in
Speaker 1: different ways. Um. I loved that chapter. I don't I
Speaker 1: don't remember exactly how it wound down, but I remember
Speaker 1: being a little confused about sort of like how how
Speaker 1: that storyline kind of got wrapped up. And I think
Speaker 1: I remember not enjoying the shooting the episodes as much
Speaker 1: where we were in conflict, you know, when there was
Speaker 1: like real bad stuff happening between Andy and Aaron, it
Speaker 1: wasn't as fun. It just but I mean, that's that's
Speaker 1: just an actor complaining. Um, But I think there was
Speaker 1: something so breezy and simple and natural about just kind
Speaker 1: of goofing off with Aaron and finding that comedy was
Speaker 1: very fun, and then later on tapping into darker parts
Speaker 1: of these characters that, like I said, they sabotaged the
Speaker 1: relationship in different ways. It felt a little harder to
Speaker 1: make funny or harder to make silly, and um but yeah, um.
Speaker 1: In the New York Times, Paul said about you and Andy,
Speaker 1: he had so much in common with this character we
Speaker 1: wanted to create. I can't remember when they started merging.
Speaker 1: He has this undeniable likability when he's at his most awful,
Speaker 1: you can't help but love the guy. I think that's
Speaker 1: true about me or about Andy, Well, I do. I
Speaker 1: that's a really flattering thing, and that's uh and it
Speaker 1: speaks to what a sweet and wonderful person Paul is.
Speaker 1: But I that is my greatest hope for the character
Speaker 1: of Andy, that that he can be kind of wretched
Speaker 1: but in a way that you can tell is in
Speaker 1: spite of himself, and that he really does want to
Speaker 1: be better. You know, That's the part I think I
Speaker 1: connect with the most and feel like it's the most
Speaker 1: I have the most in common with Andy is like
Speaker 1: I I I stumble through the world socially and in
Speaker 1: relationships and all of it. I think, like most of us,
Speaker 1: I just I always I am frustrated at myself when
Speaker 1: I screw it up, whatever it is, and whether it's
Speaker 1: a simple social interaction or a big meaningful thing in
Speaker 1: my life, whatever it is. I but I want to
Speaker 1: be better. I just want to be better, and I
Speaker 1: try to be better, and I still fail a lot. Um.
Speaker 1: It's why I'm so grateful to everyone in my life
Speaker 1: who loves me, because it's always stumbling through all of it.
Speaker 1: But um, Andy at his core wants to be good,
Speaker 1: He wants to be a good person. He wants to
Speaker 1: say the right thing, and only occasionally does he nail
Speaker 1: it right. There's times where Andy was not just beautiful
Speaker 1: in his expressions of love, but sometimes really tender and
Speaker 1: like a good listener. Right, And that's not something we
Speaker 1: associate with Andy Bernard at all, but those are those
Speaker 1: are moments where I think his better angels are really
Speaker 1: intervening and kind of guiding him because but they're there
Speaker 1: like his his desire to be better and his instincts
Speaker 1: are constantly fighting his reactionary impulses. All right, we're gonna
Speaker 1: stop there for now. Sorry. I know Ed is amazing
Speaker 1: to listen to, and what I love is the love
Speaker 1: that he has for Andy Bernard. You know, there were
Speaker 1: a lot of people who didn't love Andy Bernard, but
Speaker 1: Ed Helms loved Andy Bernard. And that is the sign
Speaker 1: of a true artist and great actor. Lesson lesson one
Speaker 1: from me, Never ever judge your characters. Just find a
Speaker 1: way to fall in love with them. But we are
Speaker 1: going to hear more from Ed h in an upcoming episode,
Speaker 1: so stay tuned for that. Thank you to Ed for
Speaker 1: joining me for part one. Although you'll you'll be back
Speaker 1: for part two uh and thank you all for listening.
Speaker 1: We will see you next week. The Office Deep Dive
Speaker 1: is hosted and executive produced by me Brian Baumgartner, alongside
Speaker 1: our executive producer Langley. Our senior producer is Tessa Kramer.
Speaker 1: Our associate producer is Emily Carr, and our assistant editor
Speaker 1: is Diego Tapia. My main man in the booth is
Speaker 1: Alec Moore. Our theme song Bubble and Squeak, performed by
Speaker 1: my great friend Creed Bratton, and the episode was mixed
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Speaker 1: a new true crime podcast, The Pink Moon Murders. The
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Speaker 1: Last season on Lethal Lit. You might remember I came
Speaker 1: to Hollow Falls on a mission. Well, I'm finding out
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