Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bloomberg Surveillance Podcast. I'm Tom Keane along
Speaker 1: with Jonathan Ferroll and Lisa Brownowitz Jailey. We bring you
Speaker 1: insight from the best and economics, finance, investment, and international relations.
Speaker 1: To find Bloomberg Surveillance on Apple podcast, sun Cloud, Bloomberg
Speaker 1: dot Com, and of course on the Bloomberg terminal. Right now,
Speaker 1: tim Na Tanners joins us a medal and mining analyst
Speaker 1: at Wolf Research. Is exquisite on what you do with
Speaker 1: all this stuff because you turn it into steel and
Speaker 1: other stuff. We're thrilled she could join us on short
Speaker 1: notice this morning. Tim night, you're in Toledo at CLFS
Speaker 1: hot Requetted Factory. You're in a factory in Toledo, Ohio
Speaker 1: where they take all this stuff we're talking about and
Speaker 1: they actually make stuff. What are the people in Toledo
Speaker 1: in that factory think of the commodity cycle we're in
Speaker 1: right now? Well, thank you for having me. Good morning. Um.
Speaker 1: The fact is that the situation and Russie Ukrainian invasion
Speaker 1: is critical for raw materials across our coverage, and in
Speaker 1: particular when we look at the steel industry, the big
Speaker 1: impact is the complete squeeze on raw materials, and so
Speaker 1: this facility actually in Toledo, Ohio is a is a
Speaker 1: real hedge for cliffs which we cover UM in enabling
Speaker 1: them to buffer themselves against this super squeeze in pig iron.
Speaker 1: Russia and Ukraine comprised two thirds of the of the
Speaker 1: US pig iron imports, and so this is the nice
Speaker 1: offset made in the USA to that import situation. Could
Speaker 1: you substitute in your world if there's a given raw
Speaker 1: material from Russia? Is it easy to substitute Chile as
Speaker 1: one example? No, No, it's really not UM and I
Speaker 1: think you know, of course, it depends on the commodity, right.
Speaker 1: I can't make a blanket statement. But if you look
Speaker 1: at Palladium, which we don't cover, but you can see
Speaker 1: it's twenty Russia and like I mentioned with figure and
Speaker 1: it's two thirds UM Ukraine and Russia, and the alternative
Speaker 1: is Brazil, and they certainly can't compensate for that lost production.
Speaker 1: And you think about a mind, you know, it's really
Speaker 1: not a switch that you flip, right, and even if
Speaker 1: it were, you know, you take even if you did
Speaker 1: have capacity, you would take you know, easily three six
Speaker 1: twelve months to restart many of these many production facilities
Speaker 1: are off for a reason because it's antipated technology. They
Speaker 1: don't have the electricity or the labor, and it's it's
Speaker 1: hard for producers to decide to make that decision anyway,
Speaker 1: because they don't know how long this is gonna last,
Speaker 1: and it's an economic, very big economic decision to them.
Speaker 1: Tim now were prepared for some sort of announcement from
Speaker 1: President Biden about bands on imports of Russian crude. What
Speaker 1: would the consequences be to the medals market if there
Speaker 1: was a similar ban on aluminum, on ten on some
Speaker 1: of these other medals that really are significantly imported from
Speaker 1: Russia to the United States. Look, um, you know, the
Speaker 1: aluminum market is a global market. The America's are net
Speaker 1: short aluminum. But um, you know, already the market until
Speaker 1: a couple until this morning, I guess, was pricing in
Speaker 1: a pretty big shortfall. So it's hard to figure exactly
Speaker 1: what happens. But net net, I mean, Russia is about
Speaker 1: six of the aluminum market. That one in particular we
Speaker 1: think is very affected because it's not only the direct
Speaker 1: Russia production Ukraine production, but also the impact indirectly on
Speaker 1: higher power prices in Europe. So that's why I think
Speaker 1: is one of the commodities that's most squeezed right now.
Speaker 1: But you also look at anything with a lot of
Speaker 1: energy in put. You look at zinc, zinc refineries, prices
Speaker 1: are up. Russia is a huge producers of nickel. I
Speaker 1: think you can see what's happened with nicol recently. It's
Speaker 1: it's a phenomenal emiens. There's a little scary if you
Speaker 1: need it right well, but exactly that's where I was
Speaker 1: going to go. The financialization of the commodities market. You're
Speaker 1: talking about the on the ground, getting the metal out
Speaker 1: of the ground and giving it to people who need
Speaker 1: it for products, etcetera. And yet we're dealing with something
Speaker 1: that's highly financialized, highly leveraged, and you're seeing massive disruptions.
Speaker 1: How much are the moves that we're seeing in some
Speaker 1: of the pricing due to that and not necessarily the
Speaker 1: true shortfalls or a gauge of supply and demand in
Speaker 1: the physical market physically, these these products are short when
Speaker 1: we're talking about anything trade on the elemy. Prior to
Speaker 1: these disruptions, the markets were already very tight. Now that said,
Speaker 1: if if this situation will resolve tomorrow. Hypothetically, of course,
Speaker 1: you know, the commodities would would definitely retreat in the
Speaker 1: case of nicol for example. But there's been actual physical
Speaker 1: disruptions of aluminum production in Ukraine about a large facility
Speaker 1: and refinery there, So it's a little bit of both.
Speaker 1: But yeah, there's no quick production fixed, and in some
Speaker 1: cases there have been you know, irreparable you know, damage
Speaker 1: done to ports and infrastructure that are going to have
Speaker 1: longer lasting effects. Ten forty five East, we will hear
Speaker 1: from the President of the United States on holding Russia
Speaker 1: accountable ten forty five East, and will we hear from
Speaker 1: the President of the United States on holding Russia accountable.
Speaker 1: As we reported this morning, according to people from the
Speaker 1: day with the mats out that the President is set
Speaker 1: to band us impults of Russian crude as soon as today.
Speaker 1: So somewhere here from the President should be hidden from
Speaker 1: the President in the next couple of as. I'm bringing
Speaker 1: up Brent Crude here to see if we have enough
Speaker 1: lift up or one level. Yes, we come up nicely. One,
Speaker 1: not up through one yet. That's my key level. I'm
Speaker 1: Brent Crude, Jim. I'm fascinated within the hyper detail of
Speaker 1: your note and your visits that there's always that great
Speaker 1: mystery of China and their inventories of medals. In the
Speaker 1: years that I've done this, it's always a great mystery.
Speaker 1: Do you have any understanding of what the true story
Speaker 1: is of China's inventory of these raw materials or finished products.
Speaker 1: I can't say that I've figured out China, and definitely
Speaker 1: not that angle either, but I would say that, um,
Speaker 1: you know, it definitely depends on the commodity. But if
Speaker 1: we're talking about some of these base medals, you know
Speaker 1: China is not a natural producer of them. If you're
Speaker 1: talking about aluminum and steal, yes, they are under the
Speaker 1: market and could amp up if they needed to. But
Speaker 1: if they'd have to have the raw materials, and that's
Speaker 1: where the squeezes. It's an iron art's and cool, it's
Speaker 1: in alumina and box site, and that's where it's a
Speaker 1: cost problem, maybe not a scarcity problem. If they do
Speaker 1: decide to ramp up. Can we have a technological application
Speaker 1: given this crisis where we are more efficient with our
Speaker 1: medals finishing our medals product I think of new core
Speaker 1: years ago and what new core rought. Can we have
Speaker 1: another technological leap in your world if it's so expensive again,
Speaker 1: look these you know. I think this will be a
Speaker 1: wake up call to the markets to say, look, do
Speaker 1: we really want to see a commodity that's so dependent
Speaker 1: on Russia, Ukraine or on any given region. Right. And
Speaker 1: I think that over time there'll be more and more
Speaker 1: initiatives to develop technologies and alternatives. However, we're not talking
Speaker 1: about you know, months or quarters. We're talking about several years.
Speaker 1: And I think by the end of the decade you'll
Speaker 1: you'll see again more alternatives to to um, you know,
Speaker 1: raw materials, and you're seeing already efforts to mine um
Speaker 1: off the ocean floor, which could supplement nickel, for example,
Speaker 1: which is particularly scarce. Jim, all morning, we've been talking
Speaker 1: about how long the conflict will last and what the
Speaker 1: longer term ramifications will be on the economy as well
Speaker 1: as on some of these specific markets. Can you give
Speaker 1: us a sense of how difficult it is to turn
Speaker 1: off some of these inputs in terms of where we
Speaker 1: import some of these products and then turn them back on.
Speaker 1: I mean, how long do you expect some of these
Speaker 1: disruptions to last, regardless of how long the conflict persists. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's a that's a great point, I think. I mean,
Speaker 1: if we're talking about the infrastructure. I'm not an expert
Speaker 1: in the conditions of the rails and the ports, but
Speaker 1: from our understanding, you know those have been damaged and
Speaker 1: so that would have to be repaired. Um I heard
Speaker 1: that half of the rails at operating out of Ukraine.
Speaker 1: We're not operable, but then half are, so that would
Speaker 1: just be a bottleneck obviously. And then in terms of
Speaker 1: whether it's a mine or whether it's an operating facility.
Speaker 1: You know um an alumina refinery in um Ukraine, that's
Speaker 1: one point seven five million tons of significant producer globally.
Speaker 1: When you shut that down, it doesn't you know, you
Speaker 1: can't flip a switch and we start that. Plus you
Speaker 1: need to have material on the ground to run it
Speaker 1: and have a power supply, so that could take you know,
Speaker 1: at best, you know, months to restart. And then if
Speaker 1: you have a steel mill orderly shut down, it could
Speaker 1: be quick to restart and if you have a mind,
Speaker 1: you know, you could restart it. But again it depends
Speaker 1: on having the people, the power, the materials on the ground.
Speaker 1: I think the bigger question is what's the state of
Speaker 1: the country when you know things are resolved and how
Speaker 1: quickly they can try to produce again. So far it
Speaker 1: seems like there's actually still um shipments of oil and
Speaker 1: shipments of iron ore and met coal even asked of
Speaker 1: last week. So you know, I think it'll just be
Speaker 1: slow moving at first. When things are referred, it's him
Speaker 1: to thank you, it's him to town. As that of
Speaker 1: a wolf research. Victoria Fernandez joins the chief market strategist
Speaker 1: at cross Mark just to get the lay of the land,
Speaker 1: to try to figure out what you do, Victoria, what
Speaker 1: have you not done in the last thirteen days. Well, actually, Tom,
Speaker 1: we've been doing what we had been doing in the
Speaker 1: thirteen days before that. We've been in the market. We've
Speaker 1: been trimming names that have been higher. We've been going
Speaker 1: in and buying names that have taken a hit and
Speaker 1: have come back, and they've been on our shopping list
Speaker 1: and whether that's going to be value names, it's a
Speaker 1: few tech names. We've been in the market trying to
Speaker 1: be opportunistic and trade some of these um these names
Speaker 1: that are there in order to build our portfolio. Obviously,
Speaker 1: our outlook is a little more cautious than where we
Speaker 1: were before, so we could be a little more choosy
Speaker 1: on the names that we have, but we still think
Speaker 1: there's some buying opportunities here. Have you focused more on
Speaker 1: America because we were not making a joke about it,
Speaker 1: But the reality is is in ways we go buy
Speaker 1: international by e M, by this, by that, And yet
Speaker 1: it seems over the recent years we all come back
Speaker 1: to mother America in the big caps of America. Is
Speaker 1: that what we're gonna do here in the next year.
Speaker 1: I think you're gonna see that, Tom. And it's interesting because,
Speaker 1: as you know, Bob doll our c i O, one
Speaker 1: of his predictions at the beginning of this year was
Speaker 1: that we might see international stocks finally outperform US domestic stocks.
Speaker 1: And now we have to look at that and say,
Speaker 1: because of where we stand with the Russia Ukraine issue,
Speaker 1: are we going to see that happen? And now I'm
Speaker 1: not so sure. There's been a big shift in that
Speaker 1: European economic recovery, and we have to wonder is that
Speaker 1: going to be long lasting? You talked about duration of inflation.
Speaker 1: The duration of this incursion is really going to weigh
Speaker 1: on the economics of both Europe and the US, and
Speaker 1: that could shift where people are investing. Right now, we're
Speaker 1: focusing more at the US Victoria. We were talking earlier
Speaker 1: with Margie Patel and she was talking about her optimism
Speaker 1: that this conflict would resolve itself relatively quickly and that
Speaker 1: there will be buying opportunities. I do wonder, though, what
Speaker 1: the longer term ramifications are for the volatility that we're
Speaker 1: seeing in the commodity space, the incredible surge in oil prices,
Speaker 1: and frankly, the lack of dependability in basic staples like
Speaker 1: wheat and corn. Yeah, I mean luckily, so when we
Speaker 1: talk about the dray shot of this, the longer it
Speaker 1: goes on, obviously the larger the ramifications are, and that's
Speaker 1: going to be to investor sentiment. I mean, you look
Speaker 1: at consumer confidence numbers over the last week, the daily numbers.
Speaker 1: Surprisingly they've moved a little bit higher. Normally they're highly
Speaker 1: correlated with gas prices, so it's a little surprising. But
Speaker 1: the longer this goes on, it's gonna hit investor sentiment.
Speaker 1: It's obviously going to hit inflation for the longer term
Speaker 1: instead of maybe the spike that we were expecting. It's
Speaker 1: gonna affect currencies. I mean we saw how the euro
Speaker 1: swissy went under parody this week, so you're gonna affect
Speaker 1: the currencies. And then obviously we're talking about that European
Speaker 1: economic recovery. As COVID retreated, that's going to be affected
Speaker 1: as well. So there are longer lasting effects. The longer
Speaker 1: this goes on, the question is does China step in
Speaker 1: and pick up enough of the slack from what the
Speaker 1: West in Europe is not going to do with Russia
Speaker 1: she kind of buffer the situation a little bit and
Speaker 1: allow Putin to continue. Victoria, thank you as always, or
Speaker 1: Fernanders there a cross mark global investments. Yea, we get
Speaker 1: a domestic perspective now. She's been more than patient in
Speaker 1: this hour in joining us. Diane Swuk, chief economist at
Speaker 1: Grant Thornton. Diane, I'm absolutely fascinated in all of your
Speaker 1: commitment to our Fed Day coverage as well. What kind
Speaker 1: of Fed Day do you expect that we'll see given
Speaker 1: this historic news slow Well, the timing just couldn't come
Speaker 1: at a worse time, as it's adding fuelton already well
Speaker 1: kindled inflation fire for the Federal Reserve, and we've seen
Speaker 1: certainly J. Powell's commitment to still raise rates by a
Speaker 1: quarter point at the March meeting, and I think it's
Speaker 1: really important to understand that we risk seeing a much
Speaker 1: more entrenched inflation, not exactly the same as the nineteen seventies,
Speaker 1: but your eerie resemblance. And in his Cuss testimony to Congress,
Speaker 1: he made a point of saying, we are looking at
Speaker 1: the nineteen seventies as a benchmark to avoid, not to repeat. Well,
Speaker 1: that means that the Federal Reserve has to actually combat
Speaker 1: a lot of the demand side of this inflation, even
Speaker 1: as we're seeing the supply shocks pile through from Russia.
Speaker 1: You and I have lived the measured of Alan Greenspan
Speaker 1: with this warr in Ukraine. Can the Fed and their
Speaker 1: well meaning economists, Can they just get away from measured
Speaker 1: and say, look, we're gonna act, We're gonna raise rates,
Speaker 1: but it's a one off. I think they have to
Speaker 1: be very cognizant of saying they're not going to allow
Speaker 1: inflation to get out of the out of control any further.
Speaker 1: They're already behind the curve. This puts some in a
Speaker 1: very bad position, and I think one of the hard
Speaker 1: things for the Federal Reserve is the tight rope that J.
Speaker 1: Paul is going to be walking between wanting to raise
Speaker 1: rates and stem inflationary pressures and stop inflation from becoming
Speaker 1: a recession with stay inflation without tipping financial markets into
Speaker 1: a larger credit market seizure that would do the job
Speaker 1: for the FED be much harder to recover from, and
Speaker 1: that's a very fine tight rope to walk at this
Speaker 1: stage of the game. Diane. There's also the question of
Speaker 1: the economic bleed through of higher gas prices as they
Speaker 1: do reach the highest at least a nominal basis on record,
Speaker 1: what is the consequence for the average American family, Given
Speaker 1: the gas prices are now north of four dollars a gallon,
Speaker 1: but we've done calculations last year it was almost a
Speaker 1: thousand dollars per household, the record increase on a nominal
Speaker 1: basis that we saw in prices at the pump coming
Speaker 1: out of the pandemic. Now this adds another eight hundred
Speaker 1: and fifty nine dollars per household, and that wipes out
Speaker 1: much of the excess savings in the lower certainly quartile
Speaker 1: of household that they were able to hold. And that's
Speaker 1: at a time when they're also those households at the
Speaker 1: bottom also getting released slammed. That's at the same time
Speaker 1: that they're much more vulnerable to the rising rents and
Speaker 1: escalating rents that we're seeing out there and all the
Speaker 1: other aspects of inflation. It really is a very different
Speaker 1: sort of inequality issue that we're facing because also those
Speaker 1: who can work from home have the ability to hedge
Speaker 1: against and blunt the blow of higher commute costs, when
Speaker 1: those who have to work in person in lower wage
Speaker 1: jobs cannot blunt that blow of higher commute costs, and
Speaker 1: that's all compounding the inflationary impact on them. So do
Speaker 1: you think that, Diane, potentially we could avoid returning to
Speaker 1: some sort of recessionary environment and response to the oil shock,
Speaker 1: and yet see a massive increase in inequality or do
Speaker 1: you think that both could occur. Do you think that
Speaker 1: this could actually be a shock that changes the trajectory
Speaker 1: in a more meaningful way. Unfortunately, I think the risk
Speaker 1: is that it changes in a much more meaningful way.
Speaker 1: Going into this crisis, we were looking at sort of
Speaker 1: the fog of war and what kinds of sort of
Speaker 1: decision rules and scenarios out there, and unfortunately, our resilience
Speaker 1: through this as an economy as a double edged sword,
Speaker 1: because it sort of suggests that of FED can't afford
Speaker 1: not to raise rates at the same time that we're
Speaker 1: hitting demand with higher energy prices, and the two colliding
Speaker 1: means that we likely will need to see a slowdown
Speaker 1: that actually bleeds into unemployment to derail the inflationary pressures
Speaker 1: we see in our best case scenarios. Right now, we're
Speaker 1: looking at an almost stall out of growth in the
Speaker 1: second half of the year that is not technically a recession,
Speaker 1: but not enough to hold the unemployment rate down after
Speaker 1: it falls further in the first half of this year.
Speaker 1: That is not a great scenario to have, and that's
Speaker 1: without the additional supply chain bottlenecks that you were talking
Speaker 1: about earlier, which I think are very important because again
Speaker 1: they had insult to injury and an already bad inflation scenario,
Speaker 1: and they continue to contribute to shortages out there. Dan,
Speaker 1: What would holding rates where they are do, What would
Speaker 1: actually a more devish approach from the FED actually accomplish
Speaker 1: in this market and frankly, in this economy. My concern
Speaker 1: is that holding rates at their instant level right now,
Speaker 1: given the kind of momentum we've already seen, is that
Speaker 1: we would see a more entrenched inflation already seen. Expectations
Speaker 1: on inflation have risen, they will rise more, and that
Speaker 1: means expectations for people pushing it onto employers. I've talked
Speaker 1: to many employers who are now getting complaints by their
Speaker 1: workers that did not get as bigger raises as the
Speaker 1: entry level workers got, and they're not keeping up with inflation.
Speaker 1: That's how it's a different way of getting to the
Speaker 1: nineties seventies. But I think it's an important thing to
Speaker 1: be thinking about, is that you risk a much more entrenched,
Speaker 1: longer lived, stagflationary environment, and the FED can't afford that either.
Speaker 1: That is the American observation of the day. Diane Swonk,
Speaker 1: thank you so much. With Grant Thornton, there we stopped
Speaker 1: and pause now and we do with truly and I
Speaker 1: mean this with all sincerity. One of the original founders
Speaker 1: of a woman's place in the securities business, and it
Speaker 1: is m Malletti who long ago Lisa was it a
Speaker 1: shop called Strong, and through various permutations, is now with
Speaker 1: all spring and she is one of the nation's great
Speaker 1: value managers. M Letty, good morning, Good morning, Tom, and Lisa,
Speaker 1: thanks for having me on. I want to talk about
Speaker 1: in your research note you say women investors have the edge.
Speaker 1: Pray tell well, I think both you and Lisa really
Speaker 1: know and appreciate the dangers of group think and so
Speaker 1: um to get out of that in our industry, we
Speaker 1: have to get out of the box and have a
Speaker 1: collection of people who are diverse, who come from different backgrounds,
Speaker 1: different places that can bring a different perspective, right, And
Speaker 1: I do think and believe that females bring different perspectives
Speaker 1: into this business than males. Okay, maybe maybe no better
Speaker 1: than one another, but together collectively it is better. So
Speaker 1: and dovetail that into the moment that we're in right now.
Speaker 1: Where is the group think right now at a time
Speaker 1: when people don't know what to think? Mm hmm, Well,
Speaker 1: I think the group think right now is there's a
Speaker 1: lot of uncertainty. We don't have a lot of answers,
Speaker 1: and how do you make calm decisions at times where
Speaker 1: there's a lot of emotion controlling the market, right, and
Speaker 1: a lot of different opinions about what's going on? But
Speaker 1: what I'm focused on, what our investment teams are. Just
Speaker 1: get back to the basics, follow your investment process and
Speaker 1: let that be the guide. And certainly you take inputs
Speaker 1: from all professionals in a lot of different areas, a
Speaker 1: lot of expertise, but you bring that together through the
Speaker 1: investment process. So are we going all Greek medicine here
Speaker 1: and say, first, do no harm? Is that the basic idea?
Speaker 1: I think the basic idea is, Look, the market was
Speaker 1: surprised by this. Most investors were surprised by this. The
Speaker 1: natural trigger um for most people, I think is to
Speaker 1: say I don't want anything to do with any area
Speaker 1: of the market that can be impacted by Russia, including
Speaker 1: any emerging market. And I think you know, that's where
Speaker 1: we have to pause and say, is that really the
Speaker 1: right way to think when you're allocating capital or do
Speaker 1: we just have to look at this more holistically and say,
Speaker 1: this event definitely has caused change. Let's look at the changes,
Speaker 1: but not have a quick trigger on, you know, changing
Speaker 1: allocations dramatically. So what's your sort of contrarian idea of
Speaker 1: the day in terms of what you are actually doing
Speaker 1: or not doing with your money? The other people I'm
Speaker 1: moving in the opposite direction from you know. So I
Speaker 1: think there's a couple of areas in the market that, um,
Speaker 1: you know, you don't have to get all out of equities,
Speaker 1: you can. I think the small cap space is very interesting.
Speaker 1: It is trading at a historically low or a history
Speaker 1: gap relative large cap in terms of evaluation perspective, and
Speaker 1: you know it's closed a little bit recently, but there's
Speaker 1: more room to go to go there. There's also less
Speaker 1: impact from some of these global issues on the smaller companies.
Speaker 1: I think healthcare is interesting, right, we're talking about all
Speaker 1: the industries that are impacted. Health Care is an area
Speaker 1: that underperformed last year that has the ability I think
Speaker 1: this year as people are looking for areas where there's
Speaker 1: more stability to really outperform. So those are the types
Speaker 1: of things that we're looking at. There's difference between going
Speaker 1: out and actively buying and convincing yourself not to sell,
Speaker 1: and those are two important points right now at a
Speaker 1: time when so many people are contemplating cash. Are you
Speaker 1: doing more of the former or the latter. It's a combination, Lisa, honestly, right,
Speaker 1: I think what you want to do as an investor
Speaker 1: is really make sure you own the best companies that
Speaker 1: are best positioned. So sometimes that does include making some
Speaker 1: trade off selling a name that you thought was better positioned.
Speaker 1: But given the external things have changed, and so you're
Speaker 1: looking at the world a little bit differently. But most
Speaker 1: of these decisions are on the margin, they're not felt
Speaker 1: everything in this area and move everything into that area.
Speaker 1: Is revenue growth a substitute for value analysis down the
Speaker 1: income statement? And of course I'm speaking about high profit,
Speaker 1: high cash flow, big text, of course, trading at fifty multiples.
Speaker 1: But but but can you fold revenue growth into a
Speaker 1: traditional offspring value strategy? Absolutely, and I do think it's
Speaker 1: become increasingly important. Tom. You know, years ago, you know,
Speaker 1: when I was really starting in the business, thirty years ago,
Speaker 1: you were looking at the value space a little bit differently.
Speaker 1: You didn't have some of the secular changes that we
Speaker 1: have going on today. Things in our economy are moving
Speaker 1: really rapidly, and so I think that revenue growth is
Speaker 1: an indicator of competitive advantage. Right, It's not the It's
Speaker 1: not the only metric to look at, you know, so again,
Speaker 1: if you're if you're a growth investors, you still shouldn't
Speaker 1: be looking at just that metric. But it is important
Speaker 1: to know that you are focused on companies that are
Speaker 1: not going to zero or declining dramatically in value. M Letty,
Speaker 1: thank you so much for the all Spring greatly appreciated.
Speaker 1: All Spring Global Investments head of all of their active equity.
Speaker 1: This is the Bloomberg Surveillance Podcast. Thanks for listening. Join
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Speaker 1: the terminal. I'm Tom, meaning this is Bloomer