WEBVTT - Edward James Olmos (Santana) 0:00:00.040 --> 0:00:01.960 I asked him one question, how many of you have 0:00:02.080 --> 0:00:05.720 had a brother, sister, father, mother, grandfather, grandmother and her 0:00:05.840 --> 0:00:08.680 uncle direct relative that has been in prison before you. 0:00:09.200 --> 0:00:13.720 This is Edward James almost on PBS promoting the movie 0:00:13.760 --> 0:00:20.120 he had just directed, produced and started, called American Me Easily. 0:00:20.880 --> 0:00:23.960 I mean just by a few, maybe out of five hundred, 0:00:23.960 --> 0:00:26.759 there was maybe six or seven people men who did 0:00:26.800 --> 0:00:30.040 not raise their hands. And almost was asked a simple question, 0:00:30.320 --> 0:00:32.559 how the hell did you shoot this movie in a 0:00:32.640 --> 0:00:36.800 real prison with real inmates? So he described his experience 0:00:36.840 --> 0:00:40.400 in folsome prisons speaking to a group of inmates, and um, 0:00:42.159 --> 0:00:45.760 I asked them how many would like to have their sons, 0:00:45.880 --> 0:00:49.000 or their grandsons, or their you know, the nephews, their 0:00:49.080 --> 0:00:51.720 nieces are relative after them come in here. And then 0:00:51.760 --> 0:00:53.640 none of them raised their hands. I said, okay, fine, 0:00:53.800 --> 0:00:57.040 help me make this movie. And they did. Almost was 0:00:57.080 --> 0:00:59.240 a household name at the time. He had spent five 0:00:59.320 --> 0:01:02.440 years in Miami, Ice nominated for an Oscar, and now 0:01:02.480 --> 0:01:05.720 he was talking to mainstream audiences about his passion project. 0:01:06.000 --> 0:01:08.200 It's the first time in the history of this country 0:01:08.240 --> 0:01:11.440 that that that we saw of penal institution opened up 0:01:11.440 --> 0:01:15.440 this way allowed to be photographed and inmates used. And 0:01:15.800 --> 0:01:17.480 the first time in the history of this country that 0:01:17.800 --> 0:01:22.080 the fulsome prison, one state prison where Black's wides, Brown's yellows, 0:01:22.120 --> 0:01:24.880 and reds all worked together towards one common goal, in 0:01:24.959 --> 0:01:27.440 one time, common understanding. The film leaves you with a 0:01:27.480 --> 0:01:30.120 pessimistic message, doesn't it. Well, No, it leaves you with 0:01:30.200 --> 0:01:38.680 the truth. Welcome to more than a movie, American Mean, 0:01:39.000 --> 0:01:41.679 a podcast that digs into the history and mystery of 0:01:41.720 --> 0:01:45.600 American Mean, a film directed by and starring Edward James 0:01:45.600 --> 0:01:49.400 Almost that had a huge impact on Latino cinema and culture. 0:01:49.960 --> 0:01:52.680 I'm your host, Alex Fomero, and I'll be diving into 0:01:52.720 --> 0:01:58.200 the controversy behind the movie. This iconic film was a 0:01:58.200 --> 0:02:02.280 big deal for the Latino community, especially Chicanos, but unfortunately, 0:02:02.360 --> 0:02:04.960 its legacy was dealt a serious blow when several of 0:02:04.960 --> 0:02:08.360 the film's game consultants were murdered shortly after its release. 0:02:12.919 --> 0:02:17.639 Even Edward James Almost was possibly threatened and extorted. In fact, 0:02:17.680 --> 0:02:20.680 while I've been researching and interviewing people related to this 0:02:20.760 --> 0:02:24.560 film that came out thirty years ago, over and over again, 0:02:24.600 --> 0:02:28.080 I get eerily similar responses like I won't talk about 0:02:28.120 --> 0:02:32.440 that or flat out leave this alone. On each episode, 0:02:32.520 --> 0:02:34.880 all peel back a layer on the mystery and myths 0:02:35.000 --> 0:02:38.000 surrounding American Me. By the way, if you haven't listened 0:02:38.040 --> 0:02:41.360 to our first episode, stop, go back and start there, 0:02:41.480 --> 0:02:43.280 or this ship is just going to be too confusing. 0:02:44.440 --> 0:02:48.040 Let's review the fallout after the release of American Me. One. 0:02:48.480 --> 0:02:51.240 Although there was critical acclaim, there was heavy blowback to 0:02:51.280 --> 0:02:55.359 the movie, both from the Latino community and the Mexican mafia. Two, 0:02:55.880 --> 0:02:58.919 several people who were associated with the film were murdered 0:02:59.040 --> 0:03:02.360 after the movie came out, and three, the rumor is 0:03:02.400 --> 0:03:04.760 that it was so bad there was a bounty on 0:03:04.880 --> 0:03:08.120 Edward James Almost, and some say he even paid anything 0:03:08.160 --> 0:03:11.240 from a hundred thousand to a million dollars to the 0:03:11.240 --> 0:03:14.919 Mexican Mafia to stay alive. And even though he said 0:03:14.960 --> 0:03:18.240 he did, it really looks like Almost never got permission 0:03:18.320 --> 0:03:20.959 from the Mexican Mafia to tell this story, at least 0:03:21.000 --> 0:03:23.680 not the version that ended up on screen. So why 0:03:23.680 --> 0:03:26.720 would he do all this? In order to better understand that, 0:03:26.919 --> 0:03:30.640 we're dedicating this entire episode to the one the only 0:03:31.240 --> 0:03:34.920 Edward James Almost. But first, let's recap who Edward James 0:03:34.960 --> 0:03:38.360 almost plays In this movie. American Me tells the story 0:03:38.440 --> 0:03:41.800 of Montoya Santana, leader of Lapri Meta gang, and it 0:03:41.880 --> 0:03:45.360 follows him from juvie to prison, where he eventually is murdered. 0:03:46.080 --> 0:03:49.240 The film shows Santana's turn from law street kid to 0:03:49.480 --> 0:03:53.240 gang leader, to convicted felon to disenchanted, but that Dono 0:03:53.400 --> 0:03:57.200 questioning his life choices. Santana has seen on both sides 0:03:57.360 --> 0:04:00.200 as both the victim of violence and the perpetray er 0:04:00.280 --> 0:04:03.280 of it. We first meet Almost as the older version 0:04:03.280 --> 0:04:07.360 of Santana, having graduated from juvie to fulsome prison almost 0:04:07.360 --> 0:04:10.200 plays him as a confident prison thug hungry for power 0:04:10.280 --> 0:04:14.920 on the inside, comfortably doling out orders to underlings, power 0:04:15.040 --> 0:04:19.720 became our game, power to provide everything you find outside. 0:04:20.560 --> 0:04:23.200 But later, when Santana has let out of prison, he 0:04:23.279 --> 0:04:25.640 is no longer in control of the world around him. 0:04:25.720 --> 0:04:29.920 He struggles. That's painfully demonstrated in a scene where Santana 0:04:30.000 --> 0:04:33.360 can't perform with his girlfriend until he turns a consensual 0:04:33.440 --> 0:04:37.480 exchange into an act of violence. The scene is juxtaposed 0:04:37.520 --> 0:04:40.719 with another scene in prison where his gang sexually assaults 0:04:40.720 --> 0:04:43.920 an enemy. It's a bleak sequence, but it's a turning 0:04:43.920 --> 0:04:46.800 point for Santana and the film. He's become a monster, 0:04:47.040 --> 0:04:50.080 and he realizes he's no longer in control of the violence. 0:04:50.320 --> 0:04:53.719 The violence is controlling him. From that point on, Almost 0:04:53.760 --> 0:04:57.320 plays the character as a man changed, someone looking not 0:04:57.480 --> 0:05:00.760 for redemption per se, but for who is when you 0:05:00.800 --> 0:05:03.760 take the gang life away from him. In the final 0:05:03.800 --> 0:05:06.799 scene of the movie, Santana, who has rejected the gang's 0:05:06.839 --> 0:05:08.760 way of life and is about to pay the price 0:05:08.800 --> 0:05:13.200 for it, faces down his assailants with confidence. You've got 0:05:13.200 --> 0:05:17.720 a lot of heart cutting on, maybe too much, so 0:05:17.839 --> 0:05:24.159 he's gotta give it your best shot. You know. It's 0:05:24.160 --> 0:05:27.640 a clear and tragic message. No matter how alluring the 0:05:27.680 --> 0:05:30.440 power and control of gang life may seem, you can 0:05:30.520 --> 0:05:34.120 never truly escape the consequences of it, even if you 0:05:34.160 --> 0:05:38.039 mean well. But who was Edward James almost before he 0:05:38.080 --> 0:05:50.120 stepped into the role of Montoya Santana. Edward James Almost 0:05:50.279 --> 0:05:54.960 was born February in East Los Angeles for the people 0:05:54.960 --> 0:05:57.960 living under a rock but somehow listening to this podcast 0:05:58.000 --> 0:05:59.880 about a film he directed. Here's a list of a 0:06:00.000 --> 0:06:03.000 only a few of his credits. Zoot Suit, Miami Vice, 0:06:03.120 --> 0:06:06.320 Blade Runner, The Ballot of Gregorio Cortes Stand and Deliver 0:06:06.480 --> 0:06:09.440 talent for the game Selina Twelve, Angry Men, the remake 0:06:09.480 --> 0:06:13.200 Beverly Hills, Chihuahua, and of course Battlestar Galactica. He has 0:06:13.200 --> 0:06:16.000 been nominated for a Tony and an Oscar. He won 0:06:16.040 --> 0:06:18.880 an Emmy, an Independent Spirit Award, and a slew of 0:06:18.920 --> 0:06:22.680 other industry accolades. And he's won so many Latino awards 0:06:22.720 --> 0:06:25.400 like Ima Hins and Alma's that at a party I 0:06:25.560 --> 0:06:29.800 once gave him a Latino Barbecue Lifetime Achievement Award in absentia. 0:06:29.880 --> 0:06:33.040 Of course, He's also an activist who has spoken at 0:06:33.040 --> 0:06:36.600 the United Nations and lobbied Washington on behalf of Latino Causes. 0:06:37.279 --> 0:06:40.040 American me as a project was in many ways a 0:06:40.040 --> 0:06:43.200 piece of propaganda. It was designed to serve almost as 0:06:43.200 --> 0:06:46.400 activist objectives, which in this case were to get kids 0:06:46.440 --> 0:06:49.200 off the streets, to stop joining gangs, and end the 0:06:49.240 --> 0:06:51.839 cycle of violence once and for all. That's a pretty 0:06:51.839 --> 0:06:54.240 lofty goal, some might say, and the way it almost 0:06:54.240 --> 0:06:56.520 decided to try to do it, by taking on the 0:06:56.560 --> 0:07:00.920 story of an actual gang, was very risky day injurious even, 0:07:01.240 --> 0:07:04.960 and it yielded some pretty deadly results when Edward James 0:07:05.000 --> 0:07:07.880 Almost was building his career. The word Hispanic wasn't even 0:07:07.880 --> 0:07:10.640 on the U S Census when the word first appeared 0:07:10.640 --> 0:07:13.520 on the census in nineteen eighty. The decade that followed 0:07:13.560 --> 0:07:16.600 saw attention being paid for the first time to this 0:07:16.720 --> 0:07:22.240 newly created pan ethnicity that then numbered at fourteen million Mexicans, 0:07:22.280 --> 0:07:25.840 Puerto Ricans, Cubans, and other folks of different Latin American 0:07:25.840 --> 0:07:31.200 backgrounds united to consolidate economic and political power. Industries took notice, 0:07:31.480 --> 0:07:35.760 including Hollywood movies starring and about Hispanics in the nineteen 0:07:35.800 --> 0:07:40.400 eighties included LaBamba Norte, Crossover Dreams, and Born in East 0:07:40.520 --> 0:07:43.640 l A. The first notable Latino film of the decade 0:07:43.800 --> 0:07:48.240 was zoot Suit in one starring Edward James Almost. The 0:07:48.400 --> 0:07:53.120 last was eight Stand and Deliver starring Edward James Almost. 0:07:53.560 --> 0:07:56.320 We literally watched Almost become a movie star over the 0:07:56.360 --> 0:07:59.320 course of seven years. Zoot Suit was the o G 0:07:59.560 --> 0:08:03.080 Chicano gangster story, and it showed how racial discrimination by 0:08:03.080 --> 0:08:06.360 whites and police pushed communities to organize in other ways 0:08:06.400 --> 0:08:09.880 for safety and power, including gangs. In many ways, it 0:08:09.960 --> 0:08:12.600 was a prequel to American Me. The movie would change 0:08:12.720 --> 0:08:16.320 Edward James almost his life forever. And I remember falling 0:08:16.360 --> 0:08:19.360 to the ground as when I got the phone call 0:08:19.480 --> 0:08:21.560 from the Mark Taper asking me to play that role. 0:08:21.600 --> 0:08:26.680 I felt out crying because I knew what this meant. 0:08:28.240 --> 0:08:31.760 Almost plays El Pachuco, a mythical character meant to literally 0:08:31.760 --> 0:08:35.440 embody Chicano culture. In other words, Edward James almost makes 0:08:35.480 --> 0:08:40.040 his on screen debut basically playing Chicano man Our Patrico 0:08:40.120 --> 0:08:43.120 realities will only make sense if you grasp their stylization. 0:08:44.520 --> 0:08:51.040 It was a secret thing to living to put on 0:08:51.160 --> 0:08:54.720 the Zoo. You can see how Alachuko's kind of spoken 0:08:54.760 --> 0:08:58.280 word way of narrating influence Santana's voiceover at the beginning 0:08:58.280 --> 0:09:03.480 of American me Zo zud New Suit. It sounded all 0:09:03.480 --> 0:09:06.079 the same. It was his role in zoot Suit that 0:09:06.120 --> 0:09:09.040 caught the eye of casting director Jane Feinberg when she 0:09:09.120 --> 0:09:13.280 was casting Ridley Scott's two sci fi classic Blade Runner. 0:09:16.440 --> 0:09:19.320 Eddie had known for a long time and I brought 0:09:19.400 --> 0:09:21.880 him in to meet with Ridley. And it was Eddie's 0:09:21.880 --> 0:09:26.959 idea to pay a multi national, multi ethnic, multi lingual 0:09:27.400 --> 0:09:31.200 character who had a vocabulary of his own, and already 0:09:31.200 --> 0:09:33.960 that early in his career. Almost was asserting his will 0:09:34.120 --> 0:09:36.800 on the process. Listen to Ridley Scott talk about how 0:09:36.840 --> 0:09:40.000 Almost invented city speak, the fictional language in the film. 0:09:40.320 --> 0:09:44.440 That was tricky because Eddie was saying, what's this city speak? 0:09:44.840 --> 0:09:48.400 So Eddie god bless and drew me crazy coming up 0:09:48.400 --> 0:09:53.720 with ideas of esperanto and rhythms of speech that actually 0:09:54.000 --> 0:09:58.720 vaguely dovetail inmate sense into what he had to say 0:09:58.760 --> 0:10:02.560 in terms of the drama. He was absolutely obsessed. Without 0:10:02.600 --> 0:10:05.000 getting that right to me, it paints a picture of 0:10:05.000 --> 0:10:07.839 a guy who won, isn't afraid of powerful white people 0:10:07.880 --> 0:10:10.960 like Ridley Scott, and two wants to put his stamp 0:10:11.000 --> 0:10:13.880 on everything he does. A lot of actors just show 0:10:13.960 --> 0:10:16.760 up and interpret the role on the page. Not Almost. 0:10:17.240 --> 0:10:19.400 He was a guy who, whether he knew it then 0:10:19.520 --> 0:10:23.440 or not, wanted to be a filmmaker. Edward James Almost 0:10:23.440 --> 0:10:25.720 his star was on the rise in the nineteen eighties, 0:10:26.040 --> 0:10:28.640 but his big break, the way he became a household name, 0:10:29.000 --> 0:10:32.080 all started with a phone call with the Michael calling me. 0:10:32.080 --> 0:10:34.319 I'm asking me if I wanted to work on Miami Vice, 0:10:34.360 --> 0:10:36.960 and I said, thank you, but I can't do this 0:10:37.040 --> 0:10:39.720 right now. Michael Mann, who would go on to direct 0:10:39.800 --> 0:10:43.400 Hate Last of the Mohicans and Collateral, was the creator 0:10:43.440 --> 0:10:46.840 of Miami Vice and almost still refused the role. I 0:10:46.880 --> 0:10:49.080 was afraid of a Miami Vice getting me to that 0:10:49.160 --> 0:10:53.480 point of making me known, but not allowing me to 0:10:53.559 --> 0:10:59.960 do Latino thing projects unheard of at that time. I mean, 0:11:00.080 --> 0:11:05.240 it wasn't even a whisper in Edward James Almost was 0:11:05.320 --> 0:11:08.360 running a small furniture business to support his family. He 0:11:08.400 --> 0:11:11.160 was driving a sixteen year old car. He was paying 0:11:11.160 --> 0:11:14.200 a modest mortgage of two hundred and fifteen dollars a month. 0:11:14.559 --> 0:11:16.880 This was not a rich man we're talking about. But 0:11:16.960 --> 0:11:19.720 he was developing a few films and he wasn't ready 0:11:19.760 --> 0:11:22.360 to go down the path of playing a stereotype. And 0:11:22.400 --> 0:11:25.040 people say, well, but if he becomes successful, then it 0:11:25.040 --> 0:11:27.040 will help you over here to do this. They're not 0:11:27.040 --> 0:11:29.400 gonna want to do stuff that looks like this. I 0:11:29.440 --> 0:11:33.360 had a huge responsibility, meaning almost felt a responsibility to 0:11:33.440 --> 0:11:36.600 his community that was more important than his career. He 0:11:36.679 --> 0:11:40.000 said no to Michael Mann and Miami Vice. When his 0:11:40.000 --> 0:11:42.880 wife overheard the phone call, she said, quote, I think 0:11:42.880 --> 0:11:45.880 you should go talk to your son. He's in the room, crying, 0:11:46.040 --> 0:11:49.440 asking why his dad doesn't want to work. Almost has 0:11:49.480 --> 0:11:51.560 said that moment felt like a knife to the heart, 0:11:52.080 --> 0:11:54.600 but he remained firm. He said he didn't want to 0:11:54.640 --> 0:11:58.720 have an exclusive contract. Twenty four episodes of Miami Vice 0:11:58.920 --> 0:12:01.600 means ten months of filming and only two months to 0:12:01.679 --> 0:12:05.600 do other projects. But Man wouldn't give up. The fifth time, 0:12:05.640 --> 0:12:09.600 Michael Mann called he offered almost a non exclusive contract 0:12:09.840 --> 0:12:13.880 with creative control over his character and a lot of money. 0:12:14.040 --> 0:12:16.600 I mean the money he was offering me was more 0:12:16.640 --> 0:12:19.280 money than my father had made in this entire lifetime, 0:12:19.880 --> 0:12:21.960 working forty five years of his life. He had never 0:12:22.320 --> 0:12:26.120 acquired what I was going to make in one season 0:12:26.640 --> 0:12:31.960 on this television show. Almost joined Miami Vice and stayed 0:12:31.960 --> 0:12:34.800 on the show for five years. In Miami Advice, I 0:12:34.840 --> 0:12:41.400 played a lieutenant Lieutenant Martin Castillo, and um, it was 0:12:41.600 --> 0:12:45.800 probably one of the most interesting journeys that I took, 0:12:45.840 --> 0:12:51.040 and because it was such a well received commercial piece 0:12:51.080 --> 0:12:53.600 of work, and that's when he got the Emmy and 0:12:53.640 --> 0:12:56.240 the Golden Globe. But Almost felt he needed to do 0:12:56.320 --> 0:12:59.119 something that would have a direct impact on his community. 0:12:59.480 --> 0:13:01.840 He took a role playing a high school teacher named 0:13:01.880 --> 0:13:07.040 him Escalante in film Stand and Deliver, and he transformed 0:13:07.080 --> 0:13:10.320 from an intimidating cop into a bookish teacher who saw 0:13:10.440 --> 0:13:13.200 math as a ticket out of the hood. Scores would 0:13:13.240 --> 0:13:15.640 have never been questioned if my kids did not have 0:13:15.960 --> 0:13:19.320 Spanish surnames and come from barrio schools. You know that 0:13:19.800 --> 0:13:23.080 he received an Academy Award nomination for the movie Stand 0:13:23.160 --> 0:13:27.720 and Deliver catapulted almost to movie star status. By he 0:13:27.720 --> 0:13:31.400 had succeeded in what few actors, let alone Latino actors, 0:13:31.440 --> 0:13:34.320 had been able to accomplish. He was playing characters that 0:13:34.400 --> 0:13:38.120 had depth and nuance. He did TV and he did movies. 0:13:38.600 --> 0:13:42.280 He got non exclusive contracts, and he got creative control 0:13:42.360 --> 0:13:45.920 over his characters. But one thing I noticed about almost 0:13:45.920 --> 0:13:48.760 his career is that he doesn't make the obvious decision 0:13:48.880 --> 0:13:51.920 an actor would usually make. If you're an actor coming 0:13:52.000 --> 0:13:54.200 up who wants to be famous, you don't drive the 0:13:54.240 --> 0:13:57.600 director of Alien crazy by insisting on controlling what you 0:13:57.679 --> 0:13:59.880 say in the movie. You don't tell the future to 0:14:00.040 --> 0:14:02.440 Rector of Heat what your character is gonna do in 0:14:02.480 --> 0:14:06.080 the TV show. You do as you're told. But almost 0:14:06.080 --> 0:14:09.800 I think saw himself and seize himself first and foremost 0:14:09.880 --> 0:14:12.640 as a role model. It's even evidenced by the first 0:14:12.679 --> 0:14:17.160 starring movie role he chose, neighborhood hero him Escalante. The 0:14:17.200 --> 0:14:20.960 fucking movie is literally called stand and Deliver. So when 0:14:20.960 --> 0:14:23.720 he chooses the movie that would become his directorial debut, 0:14:24.120 --> 0:14:27.840 he wasn't just choosing it as Edward James Almost the actor. 0:14:27.960 --> 0:14:31.600 He was choosing it as Edward James Almost the activist. 0:14:32.320 --> 0:14:36.640 To Edward James Almost, making American Me was more than 0:14:36.680 --> 0:14:41.120 a movie, and we'll hear more about that side of 0:14:41.200 --> 0:14:54.120 him after the break with my guest Raphael Augustine. Welcome 0:14:54.160 --> 0:14:56.880 back to More Than a Movie American mem Alex Fumeto. 0:14:57.280 --> 0:14:59.320 In the first half of this episode, we dug into 0:14:59.360 --> 0:15:02.400 the actor Edward James Almost and how his career ascension 0:15:02.480 --> 0:15:05.600 into Hollywood royalty brought him to the making of American Me. 0:15:06.920 --> 0:15:09.440 For the record, we reached out to Mr Almost three 0:15:09.480 --> 0:15:12.040 separate times to see if he talked to us. Each 0:15:12.080 --> 0:15:15.080 time he declined, in fact, you'd have a hard time 0:15:15.120 --> 0:15:19.360 finding anything online after we're Almost discussed as American Me 0:15:19.440 --> 0:15:22.280 at all. So instead, in this part of the episode, 0:15:22.520 --> 0:15:25.400 we dive into the man Edward James Almost, who is 0:15:25.440 --> 0:15:29.240 a mentor to my guest Raphael Augustine. I could not 0:15:29.280 --> 0:15:32.480 get Edward James almost, but I have the next best 0:15:32.520 --> 0:15:38.440 thing sitting right in front of me. My name is everyone. 0:15:38.560 --> 0:15:40.760 And to his credit, he actually didn't say no. He 0:15:40.800 --> 0:15:43.600 said I can't, which is a big difference. That is 0:15:43.640 --> 0:15:47.040 a big difference. Okay, big Zach Morris time out. Um 0:15:47.080 --> 0:15:49.720 fuck yeah, it's a big difference. When we were recording this, 0:15:49.720 --> 0:15:52.160 this just kind of like flew by me. But wow, 0:15:52.560 --> 0:15:55.320 now just thinking about it, the man said he can't 0:15:55.840 --> 0:16:00.960 talk about it, can't. It's been thirty years. Okay, time 0:16:01.000 --> 0:16:03.960 in I think. Um, I mean, I'm never going to 0:16:04.040 --> 0:16:07.760 speak about his feelings into all of this, but I'm 0:16:07.800 --> 0:16:10.600 here just to really talk more about who he is 0:16:10.600 --> 0:16:13.040 as a person. When Ralpha was a student at U c. 0:16:13.200 --> 0:16:15.960 L A. He interned at a film festival called La Leaf, 0:16:15.960 --> 0:16:19.040 founded by Edward James almost, And it just so happened 0:16:19.040 --> 0:16:22.720 that one day, this is no lie. One day I 0:16:22.760 --> 0:16:25.560 was working I was fixing a desk. I was literally 0:16:25.680 --> 0:16:29.080 like like laying down on the floor, working like up 0:16:29.080 --> 0:16:32.040 and doing the nail. Because even at a Latino film 0:16:32.080 --> 0:16:34.440 festival that make you do manual la I'm telling you 0:16:34.800 --> 0:16:37.560 that's the main reason I was there. Uh, he walks 0:16:37.560 --> 0:16:41.000 in and I was like, there he is freaking Edward 0:16:41.040 --> 0:16:44.240 James almost walks in and I'm literally working under the table. 0:16:47.000 --> 0:16:49.400 Did you say hi from under the table? Yeah? No, 0:16:49.560 --> 0:16:52.120 Well I I stood up quickly, and he was just 0:16:52.160 --> 0:16:54.040 like think. He was so gracious. He was like, thank 0:16:54.080 --> 0:16:57.000 you so much for being I mean almost student volunteer, right, 0:16:57.200 --> 0:16:58.640 So he was like, thank you so much for being here, 0:16:58.680 --> 0:17:00.280 for being part of the movement. I was like, movement, 0:17:00.280 --> 0:17:02.360 we don't even know what moment we're doing, but that 0:17:02.360 --> 0:17:05.879 that a lot that one sentence being part of the 0:17:05.880 --> 0:17:08.920 movement is So I feel like from everything I've learned 0:17:08.920 --> 0:17:12.960 about him and my own interactions with him, emblematic of 0:17:13.000 --> 0:17:16.640 who he is is he views himself as constantly within 0:17:17.400 --> 0:17:20.000 a movement, right. Can you talk a little bit about 0:17:20.000 --> 0:17:22.480 that ethos? Yeah, of course. I mean not just the 0:17:23.440 --> 0:17:26.640 like the lack of representation movement in Hollywood, not just 0:17:26.720 --> 0:17:32.960 like lack of proper funding for school education movement. He's 0:17:32.960 --> 0:17:35.199 also talking about the Chicano movement and everything else that 0:17:35.200 --> 0:17:37.919 he's been working on, and and that it took me 0:17:37.920 --> 0:17:39.879 an entire like year to figure out. I was like, 0:17:39.880 --> 0:17:42.080 what movement is he talking about? Like what? So I'm 0:17:42.119 --> 0:17:44.520 like trying to interpret and understand what he was saying 0:17:44.600 --> 0:17:48.920 until I finally saw all these like latinos in Hollywood 0:17:48.920 --> 0:17:52.080 in one space celebrating together, and I was like, Holy hell, 0:17:52.280 --> 0:17:54.679 this is the movement. There's so little of us, but 0:17:54.720 --> 0:17:58.680 we're powerful in like our art, in our intent and 0:17:58.720 --> 0:18:00.960 the stories we're trying to tell. Let's get into that. 0:18:01.080 --> 0:18:05.439 So what do you know about Edward James? Almost? Like 0:18:05.560 --> 0:18:07.560 how does how much do you know about how Edward 0:18:07.600 --> 0:18:11.480 James almost goes from a kid living in l A 0:18:11.640 --> 0:18:15.480 to Edward James almost Um Well, from all the years 0:18:15.480 --> 0:18:17.399 of working with him and just hearing his stories, I 0:18:17.440 --> 0:18:19.960 know that he started in music and he brings so 0:18:20.040 --> 0:18:21.600 much by the way he brings so much music to 0:18:21.680 --> 0:18:23.639 his characters. But that's a separate thing. That's his like, 0:18:24.440 --> 0:18:26.840 that's his process. And also this was a little interesting 0:18:26.880 --> 0:18:30.480 about him, um he and he embraces and studies so 0:18:30.520 --> 0:18:34.760 many different cultures that while everybody was doing suits suit 0:18:34.920 --> 0:18:41.080 as a it's like the Chicano masterpiece, right, He's performing 0:18:41.359 --> 0:18:45.120 Pachuco as if it was kabuki theater. That's what's so 0:18:45.480 --> 0:18:49.200 legendary about him. Like when he does Blade Runner. Really, 0:18:49.240 --> 0:18:52.080 Scott didn't ask him to create a new language. They 0:18:52.119 --> 0:18:54.359 didn't ask him to do like the ore Gami. He 0:18:54.400 --> 0:18:57.720 did that himself. In fact, almost his most famous line 0:18:57.720 --> 0:19:00.639 in the movie Too Bad She Won't Live, But then again, 0:19:00.720 --> 0:19:04.200 who does that was ad libbed? He was surprised Ridley 0:19:04.200 --> 0:19:06.959 Scott left it in. He even invented the made up 0:19:07.040 --> 0:19:11.280 language in the movie city Speak. And that's why he's 0:19:11.320 --> 0:19:13.440 so freaking amazing. That's why we love him so much. 0:19:13.920 --> 0:19:17.040 I have spoken to some folks who were involved in 0:19:17.080 --> 0:19:20.240 the making of American me and I won't say who 0:19:20.280 --> 0:19:25.040 they are yet because they frankly are afraid to talk 0:19:25.080 --> 0:19:29.520 about American me um and but one of the things 0:19:29.520 --> 0:19:33.239 that I've heard is that there were several versions of 0:19:33.320 --> 0:19:37.960 the script and that e j O did his own 0:19:38.080 --> 0:19:43.600 pass on the script, and that the studio Universal wasn't 0:19:43.640 --> 0:19:46.640 happy with that as a final product, and so they 0:19:46.680 --> 0:19:49.920 brought in more writers, and that there was a lot 0:19:49.920 --> 0:19:53.240 of tension between him and those writers because he did 0:19:53.280 --> 0:19:56.719 not like being rewritten. He did not like he wanted 0:19:57.119 --> 0:20:01.560 absolute and total control over the fin product. And that 0:20:01.640 --> 0:20:05.159 seems to be a theme in how he works and 0:20:05.200 --> 0:20:07.800 in the making of this movie. We've heard many times 0:20:07.840 --> 0:20:12.960 that he saw American Me as I don't think he 0:20:12.960 --> 0:20:15.000 would call it this, but I would call a propaganda piece, 0:20:15.200 --> 0:20:17.200 right that it's a it's a piece of politics, it's 0:20:17.200 --> 0:20:20.200 a piece of it was it's I'm gonna make this 0:20:20.240 --> 0:20:22.359 movie and it's going to have an impact on the 0:20:22.400 --> 0:20:24.879 community and especially youth in the community, and it's going 0:20:24.920 --> 0:20:27.479 to dissuade them from a certain life path, you know. 0:20:28.040 --> 0:20:30.439 I mean, I will say that if anyone takes anything 0:20:30.640 --> 0:20:36.800 about this conversation, it's that his intent was intentional. When 0:20:36.840 --> 0:20:40.680 people watch The Godfather today, we romanticize that and we 0:20:40.800 --> 0:20:42.520 all like, man, we want to have power and being 0:20:42.520 --> 0:20:44.720 in the mafia. You know, when he made American Me, 0:20:44.960 --> 0:20:47.600 he wanted to make sure he did the exact opposite 0:20:47.600 --> 0:20:50.680 of The Godfather. Right. So I say that because I'm 0:20:50.720 --> 0:20:52.640 not just talking to a writer in Hollywood. I'm talking 0:20:52.640 --> 0:20:56.640 to someone who lives and breathes thinking about Latino's roles 0:20:57.000 --> 0:21:00.520 in Hollyoad. So when we approached the theme to this movie, 0:21:00.520 --> 0:21:01.840 I want to kind of talk about it that way. 0:21:01.840 --> 0:21:06.280 And one of the things that you can't ignore in 0:21:06.280 --> 0:21:10.000 this movie is the use of sexual violence as what 0:21:10.200 --> 0:21:14.280 seems to me like a deterrent to to joining a 0:21:14.320 --> 0:21:19.240 gang right or to gang life. That's really complicated. When 0:21:19.280 --> 0:21:23.600 you watch this movie, how did that sexual violence impact 0:21:23.640 --> 0:21:26.720 you when you first watched it as a youth and 0:21:26.800 --> 0:21:29.480 what do you think about it now as someone who 0:21:29.520 --> 0:21:34.720 sort of thinks about identity in in in cinema. Oh Jesus, 0:21:34.760 --> 0:21:38.760 So I would say that when Quint Tarantino was a child, 0:21:38.840 --> 0:21:41.199 he want He said that one of the movies the 0:21:41.240 --> 0:21:43.760 most impacted him was Deliverance and that rape scene in 0:21:43.760 --> 0:21:46.679 that movie. Uh, he said, it's stuck with him for 0:21:46.720 --> 0:21:49.800 a very long time. And I think the same thing 0:21:49.800 --> 0:21:51.800 happened to me with the American me. I wasn't ready 0:21:51.840 --> 0:21:55.320 for that moment. I was like and shocked, and it's 0:21:55.359 --> 0:21:58.080 just something that sticks with you. It's like the one 0:21:58.119 --> 0:22:02.159 thing in that film that I wasn't prepared for. And 0:22:02.160 --> 0:22:03.960 I grew up with a lot of gang violence around 0:22:04.080 --> 0:22:05.960 like my neighborhood, so I always knew how to maneuver 0:22:06.040 --> 0:22:12.480 my way around, like the Cholas and Scholas. Um. I 0:22:12.520 --> 0:22:16.159 don't have much else to say about that particular moment, 0:22:16.240 --> 0:22:18.199 but I could just tell you as a kid, I 0:22:18.240 --> 0:22:20.680 was like, what am I watching this is so crazy. 0:22:21.119 --> 0:22:24.520 Multiple times in the movie we see sexual violence. In 0:22:24.560 --> 0:22:27.280 a scene at his mother's grave, Santana finds out from 0:22:27.280 --> 0:22:30.480 his father he's the product of rape and you were born. 0:22:32.960 --> 0:22:39.359 I tried to love you, but every time I looked 0:22:39.359 --> 0:22:53.399 at you, I wondered who your real father was. I 0:22:53.480 --> 0:22:59.399 wondered which sailors glad you carried inside you. In a 0:22:59.440 --> 0:23:02.119 critical woman in the film, Santana is the victim of 0:23:02.160 --> 0:23:05.720 sexual assault, while in Juvie. Many believe these two scenes 0:23:05.800 --> 0:23:09.720 were the catalyst for real life murders. This depiction of 0:23:09.760 --> 0:23:12.199 male on male sexual assault in a culture we know 0:23:12.359 --> 0:23:17.280 to be machista also reads as intentionally homophobic, like what's 0:23:17.280 --> 0:23:20.159 shameful about it? Isn't just that you were assaulted and 0:23:20.320 --> 0:23:23.280 made to feel powerless, but that it was by a man. 0:23:23.880 --> 0:23:26.240 So I asked Rafa if he was reading the use 0:23:26.280 --> 0:23:29.160 of violence by almost the same way I was, and 0:23:29.440 --> 0:23:31.600 what he thought the reaction would be if American me 0:23:31.760 --> 0:23:35.040 came out today Jesus Christ in the same way that 0:23:35.160 --> 0:23:37.360 we react to Game of Thrones. I mean, you watch 0:23:37.440 --> 0:23:39.680