WEBVTT - PJ Morton 0:00:15.436 --> 0:00:22.916 Pushkin. Hey everyone, Today we begin our month long celebration 0:00:22.956 --> 0:00:25.676 of Black Music Month with p J. Morton, the New 0:00:25.796 --> 0:00:29.876 Orleans based singer, songwriter, producer, and keyboardist of Maroon five. 0:00:30.676 --> 0:00:33.316 Morton recently earned a Grammy Award for Album of the 0:00:33.396 --> 0:00:37.396 Year for his contributions to John Battize We Are. But 0:00:37.436 --> 0:00:39.796 even though he's been up from multiple Grammys, he almost 0:00:39.836 --> 0:00:42.596 gave up on the idea of a solo career altogether. 0:00:43.156 --> 0:00:45.316 But then he moved back home to New Orleans and 0:00:45.436 --> 0:00:47.996 reconnected with what got him interested in music in the 0:00:48.116 --> 0:00:53.556 first place. Now, Morten's releasing his eighth studio album, Watched 0:00:53.596 --> 0:00:55.916 the Sun. The new album was made up of eleven 0:00:55.996 --> 0:01:00.756 original songs and features collaborations with artists like Stevie Wonder, Nas, 0:01:01.156 --> 0:01:05.516 Jill Scott, and Wallet. On today's episode, p J Morton 0:01:05.516 --> 0:01:07.316 talks to Bruce held Them about what it was like 0:01:07.356 --> 0:01:10.116 growing up a preacher's son and how his relationship with 0:01:10.196 --> 0:01:14.156 gospel impacted the way he makes music. He also talks 0:01:14.156 --> 0:01:17.276 about being a recovering workaholic and his friendship with the 0:01:17.356 --> 0:01:23.876 great Stevie Wonder. This is broken record Liner notes for 0:01:23.956 --> 0:01:27.956 the digital age. I'm justin Mitchell here's Bruce Head them 0:01:27.956 --> 0:01:31.236 and p J. Morton. You played organ growing up, right? 0:01:31.396 --> 0:01:34.796 Oh yeah, what was the organ in your church? Yeah? 0:01:34.876 --> 0:01:36.996 I could be three? It was okay, Yeah, it was 0:01:36.996 --> 0:01:40.716 auld B three. Uh yeah. My brother in law taught me. 0:01:41.156 --> 0:01:44.516 I learned on the job basically and by ear, you know, 0:01:44.596 --> 0:01:47.916 but he taught me to draw bars and settings, and 0:01:48.116 --> 0:01:50.396 I kind of just built from there. Yeah. I was 0:01:50.436 --> 0:01:52.836 amazed to hear that. Well, I heard it on your record. 0:01:52.956 --> 0:01:56.196 You said it. You don't read music. I don't read music. Yeah, 0:01:56.356 --> 0:02:01.396 so you learned to play in church by ear by ear? Yeah, 0:02:02.716 --> 0:02:05.036 it kind of blows my mind. You know, when I 0:02:05.076 --> 0:02:07.996 think about the things I can play, I just remember 0:02:08.076 --> 0:02:11.316 not being able to play, and then I remember being 0:02:11.356 --> 0:02:13.916 able to play. I don't really remember learning. Like the 0:02:13.916 --> 0:02:16.116 only thing I remember I would just play the same 0:02:16.196 --> 0:02:17.956 thing over and over, and then I would make a 0:02:17.996 --> 0:02:20.956 mistake and my ear would say, oh, that's the chord 0:02:21.036 --> 0:02:24.076 from that song. Oh that's how they did that. It 0:02:24.236 --> 0:02:27.116 literally like one foot in front of the other. Now, 0:02:27.556 --> 0:02:32.636 your album New Orleans begins with a tape of your father, 0:02:33.036 --> 0:02:37.396 Paul S Martin. That's right, yeah, introducing you at church. Well, 0:02:37.436 --> 0:02:39.596 we were actually at home or you were at home. Yeah, 0:02:39.676 --> 0:02:44.556 so my dad every year since like nineteen eighty three. 0:02:44.716 --> 0:02:47.156 I mean, I remember the camp chords got smaller and 0:02:47.196 --> 0:02:49.836 smaller through the years. That was the big one. Every 0:02:49.876 --> 0:02:52.556 year though, we would have a talent showcase during Christmas. 0:02:53.196 --> 0:02:55.396 It was me and my sisters. We all had to 0:02:55.436 --> 0:02:58.196 do something. You know. My sister was a singer. You 0:02:58.196 --> 0:03:00.236 can see me through the years ago from drums to 0:03:00.316 --> 0:03:03.276 trying to play guitar to finally you see me set 0:03:03.476 --> 0:03:06.556 land on piano about seven years old or eight, you know, 0:03:07.116 --> 0:03:09.516 and that was I think that was eight or nine. 0:03:09.916 --> 0:03:11.956 Do you remember what you played? Yeah, I used to 0:03:11.956 --> 0:03:25.996 think I invented this. It was like, oh no, I 0:03:26.116 --> 0:03:28.476 really thought that I wrote that. I don't know why 0:03:28.476 --> 0:03:30.516 I thought that, but that was what I played. I 0:03:30.636 --> 0:03:34.236 remember that clearly. Now you're playing in church. Your father 0:03:34.556 --> 0:03:36.636 ran the church. Oh yeah, he was the pastor and 0:03:36.756 --> 0:03:39.476 of course an amazing singer as well, so music was 0:03:39.516 --> 0:03:43.756 really important. Yeah. Now, what was the relationship between church 0:03:43.876 --> 0:03:47.796 music and secular music in your house? Because your dad 0:03:47.996 --> 0:03:50.876 is a very big gospel singer. Yes, he's a very 0:03:50.916 --> 0:03:54.476 big gospel singer who also was born and raised in 0:03:54.556 --> 0:03:58.236 wins Or, Ontario. Canada, so he was right across the 0:03:58.276 --> 0:04:02.036 tunnel from Detroit. So there was so much music in gospel. 0:04:02.076 --> 0:04:05.156 Of course the Whinings and Cluck Sisters, but Stevie and 0:04:05.236 --> 0:04:07.436 all of that stuff that was happening as well. So 0:04:07.756 --> 0:04:10.916 there was a high appreation for music in the house 0:04:11.276 --> 0:04:13.196 and it was almost like you could listen to it 0:04:13.236 --> 0:04:15.916 because not on Sundays. We weren't allowed to listen to 0:04:15.996 --> 0:04:19.116 secular music on Sundays on the radio. It would had 0:04:19.156 --> 0:04:22.196 to be gospel music. But one of my dad's favorite 0:04:22.236 --> 0:04:27.276 singers was Anita Baker. I remember Michael Jackson and Prince 0:04:27.476 --> 0:04:30.956 and Stevie and Whitney Houston. I remember hearing that stuff 0:04:30.956 --> 0:04:33.716 in the household too, here and there. You know. One 0:04:33.716 --> 0:04:36.716 of your dad's big hits, let It Rain, Yes, which 0:04:36.716 --> 0:04:39.716 he did after Katrina. He does a little purple rain 0:04:39.756 --> 0:04:41.796 in this A little purple rain. Yeah. I used to try. 0:04:41.796 --> 0:04:44.316 I used to travel with him as he ministered, you know, 0:04:44.956 --> 0:04:47.636 and did revivals and stuff. We would go full purple 0:04:47.716 --> 0:04:50.076 rain on there. So it was all right. Yeah, So 0:04:50.156 --> 0:04:53.076 that's what I mean by the influence was always there. 0:04:53.236 --> 0:04:55.756 My dad is a musician, so you know, as a musician, 0:04:55.796 --> 0:04:58.236 you can't pick and choose what's good and bad. I 0:04:58.276 --> 0:05:01.196 think it became more of an issue if you decided 0:05:01.236 --> 0:05:03.916 to be a recording artist doing that. You know, once 0:05:03.956 --> 0:05:06.596 you decided, oh, I'm gonna be a secular artist, that 0:05:06.716 --> 0:05:09.676 is kind of when you started to get some pushback. Okay, 0:05:09.676 --> 0:05:11.876 and did you get pushed back from him? I did. Yeah. 0:05:11.916 --> 0:05:14.396 Initially I got pushed back because I was a very 0:05:14.596 --> 0:05:17.996 young songwriter. So I think for a preacher's kid, it 0:05:18.036 --> 0:05:21.236 always comes off as rebellion at first. You know, he's 0:05:21.316 --> 0:05:24.076 just trying to go against what we're doing. You're a PK. 0:05:24.396 --> 0:05:27.316 I'm a p K. Yeah, I'm a PK. But for me, 0:05:27.396 --> 0:05:29.436 it was much purer than that, and it was coming 0:05:29.476 --> 0:05:32.916 from a real place. And I think once they realized 0:05:32.996 --> 0:05:36.716 it wasn't like a rebellious phase, they became like my 0:05:36.836 --> 0:05:41.156 number one supporters. It wasn't this is the family business. Yeah, 0:05:41.196 --> 0:05:43.916 I felt that pressure initially. I was it's me and 0:05:43.996 --> 0:05:47.556 my two sisters. I'm the only boy. I'm his namesake. 0:05:47.796 --> 0:05:51.236 You know. The jais for Junior, you know, so it 0:05:51.276 --> 0:05:53.796 was almost like that path was written out for me. 0:05:53.916 --> 0:05:56.356 I mean, it was like this is yours, you know, 0:05:56.756 --> 0:05:58.876 But for me, I didn't want that, and my dad 0:05:58.876 --> 0:06:01.636 never quite put that pressure on me. It was more 0:06:01.676 --> 0:06:05.796 coming from everybody else members, or like just in general, 0:06:05.836 --> 0:06:08.116 because my dad was known outside of just our church. 0:06:08.116 --> 0:06:10.156 Of course, he traveled all around the world, and I 0:06:10.196 --> 0:06:12.756 think everybody just assumed that. So I felt the pressure 0:06:12.796 --> 0:06:17.076 from everywhere. But internally, I think my dad saw something 0:06:17.076 --> 0:06:19.076 in me and saw that I was going to be different, 0:06:19.116 --> 0:06:23.036 and he eventually empowered me to do that. He came around, 0:06:23.156 --> 0:06:26.116 oh yeah, big time. I don't know the gospel style 0:06:26.236 --> 0:06:28.396 so well, is there a lot of Detroit gospel and 0:06:28.436 --> 0:06:31.876 what your dad did? Oh yeah, what's Detroit gospel? What's 0:06:31.996 --> 0:06:35.596 New Orleans gospel? I think New Orleans gospel always felt 0:06:35.636 --> 0:06:39.036 like New Orleans music in general. It was I think 0:06:39.076 --> 0:06:41.036 the blues and the jazz of all of that was 0:06:41.076 --> 0:06:44.196 all mixed. In Detroit at that time when I was 0:06:44.236 --> 0:06:47.236 growing up, was always kind of ahead of the game. 0:06:47.316 --> 0:06:52.916 I mean, when you talk about them, like the Clark's Sisters, Twinkie, 0:06:52.916 --> 0:06:55.356 who was the producer and one of the lead singers 0:06:55.356 --> 0:06:58.036 of The Clark's Sisters, it sounded like Stevie Wonder. It 0:06:58.116 --> 0:07:01.036 just had gospel lyrics. So they were pushing that line 0:07:01.076 --> 0:07:04.396 of it feeling like what current music was doing. She 0:07:04.476 --> 0:07:07.756 said she got that song from like master blaster, you know, 0:07:07.996 --> 0:07:15.116 but it's saying do mean that day name way, So 0:07:15.196 --> 0:07:18.236 it was like very modern, you know, for that time 0:07:18.596 --> 0:07:48.596 in New Orleans, I think was still in the you know, 0:07:49.476 --> 0:07:52.236 someone in a traditional sense. Everybody says, well, it's a 0:07:52.276 --> 0:07:54.876 gospel piano player. I don't really know what that means. 0:07:54.876 --> 0:07:56.676 People say, well, this is the gospel scale. I think 0:07:56.876 --> 0:08:00.516 that's just the scale. Everybody uses this, I think maybe 0:08:00.556 --> 0:08:03.756 gift and curse. But because I didn't learn music, I 0:08:03.796 --> 0:08:05.756 can't relate to any of that. I don't I don't 0:08:05.756 --> 0:08:08.116 even know scales, so I don't you know, you don't 0:08:08.116 --> 0:08:10.316 know any scales. I mean, I don't know what they are. 0:08:12.036 --> 0:08:14.276 You know, I know, but and I know that's a 0:08:14.356 --> 0:08:16.756 g major scale, but I don't know what a gospel 0:08:16.796 --> 0:08:19.316 scale is. I mean, I guess some people would look 0:08:19.316 --> 0:08:22.596 down on that, you know, which is there was some purists, 0:08:22.676 --> 0:08:25.436 you know. I have a weird relationship with some purists 0:08:25.436 --> 0:08:28.196 because I think the genius is being able to do it, 0:08:28.356 --> 0:08:31.516 you know, without being taught. I think that before there 0:08:31.596 --> 0:08:34.436 was notation, somebody had to play it to write it. 0:08:34.516 --> 0:08:39.796 And I think somewhere along the line notation became higher 0:08:39.876 --> 0:08:42.436 than being able to do it. But I take pride 0:08:42.436 --> 0:08:45.556 in the fact that it came through me. It comes 0:08:45.596 --> 0:08:47.516 through me, and that it's a gift that was given 0:08:47.556 --> 0:08:50.996 to me. I'm in a huge pop band, you know 0:08:50.996 --> 0:08:54.356 what I'm saying, Just like, I just play music whatever 0:08:54.356 --> 0:08:56.916 the moment calls for. So I don't really get into 0:08:56.956 --> 0:08:59.556 that or I'm not even sure what that means exactly. 0:08:59.596 --> 0:09:02.316 Of course, I can play church music because that is 0:09:02.356 --> 0:09:04.716 my foundation, you know, but I don't know that I 0:09:04.716 --> 0:09:08.196 would consider myself a gospel piano play. Well, your your 0:09:08.196 --> 0:09:10.876 friend John Batigue, Yeah, he went to juid he wants 0:09:10.876 --> 0:09:12.836 to Juilliard. Yes, so you can just say to him, yeah, 0:09:12.876 --> 0:09:16.556 I didn't have to do that. I mean, listen, I 0:09:16.596 --> 0:09:19.356 think those things and it depends where you're taking it, right. 0:09:19.396 --> 0:09:22.436 I mean, he's able to score soul and like do 0:09:22.516 --> 0:09:25.876 all these amazing things. You know, these these different things 0:09:25.876 --> 0:09:29.676 are tools for different paths, and he's undoubtedly a genius. 0:09:29.716 --> 0:09:31.876 I mean when he sits at this piano, yes he 0:09:32.036 --> 0:09:34.876 learned the notes, but you can't teach what he does. 0:09:35.156 --> 0:09:39.396 I remember, you know a friend of mine who actually 0:09:39.556 --> 0:09:42.116 was who did go to Berkeley and came to start 0:09:42.116 --> 0:09:44.036 playing with me. He would tell me stuff like that's 0:09:44.116 --> 0:09:49.516 wrong or you playing that wrong, and I was like, 0:09:49.836 --> 0:09:52.596 you know what do you There's no such thing, you 0:09:52.636 --> 0:09:55.356 know what I mean? And he had to eventually learn that. 0:09:55.836 --> 0:09:59.076 But I do think, yeah, because I don't know. It 0:09:59.116 --> 0:10:02.316 allows me to not know what the boundaries are supposed 0:10:02.316 --> 0:10:04.796 to be. And also the things that I listened to, 0:10:04.956 --> 0:10:07.596 I mean, when you talk about Stevie or you talk 0:10:07.636 --> 0:10:11.036 about Quincy, they would have different choices, you know, And 0:10:11.316 --> 0:10:13.516 these are the things that I that I grew up 0:10:13.516 --> 0:10:17.436 paying attention to the Beatles as well. I mean when 0:10:17.436 --> 0:10:20.516 you talk about like different chords and different structures, those 0:10:20.516 --> 0:10:23.476 guys they were they were all about it. Can you 0:10:23.516 --> 0:10:26.916 show me, and maybe this will probably help listeners. You've 0:10:26.956 --> 0:10:30.156 done a couple great versions of How Deep Is Your Love? Yeah, 0:10:30.196 --> 0:10:32.636 And a lot of your music is like this, including 0:10:32.676 --> 0:10:35.196 your gospel music. Your gospel music sounds like love songs. 0:10:35.236 --> 0:10:38.076 Your love song sound like gospel music, which is always nice. 0:10:38.276 --> 0:10:42.276 It was because he talking about God or you gotta listen. Yeah, 0:10:42.276 --> 0:10:44.716 So can you just show me when you probably heard 0:10:44.796 --> 0:10:46.756 that song growing up in the ears because it was 0:10:46.756 --> 0:10:49.236 on radio when you sat down to say, okay, I'm 0:10:49.236 --> 0:10:51.116 going to try and play. What was that process? Yea, 0:10:51.156 --> 0:10:53.436 it was so crazy. Is My sister and I used 0:10:53.436 --> 0:10:56.836 to transform songs from I mean, Annie was our favorite 0:10:56.876 --> 0:10:59.956 movie growing up, so I would always always already hear 0:10:59.996 --> 0:11:06.996 those songs a certain way like so, bgs are you 0:11:08.276 --> 0:11:12.516 I really need to? Right? And for me, I heard 0:11:12.516 --> 0:11:18.956 it a deep bits your life, I really mean to 0:11:22.236 --> 0:11:25.676 that's church right there? Okay, stop there? What's the church 0:11:25.716 --> 0:11:30.516 about it? Because you just don't really that's where I 0:11:30.636 --> 0:11:33.516 That's why I hear that voicing. When I say church, 0:11:33.596 --> 0:11:35.556 I mean the voicing of it, because I could have 0:11:35.596 --> 0:11:47.196 easily said because yeah, right, but I said, you know, 0:11:47.796 --> 0:11:50.876 it's just some voicings that I mean, some people call 0:11:50.916 --> 0:11:53.116 it church, some people call it soul. I hear it 0:11:53.156 --> 0:11:56.516 that way in my head, and they're probably vocal lines originally, right, 0:11:56.556 --> 0:11:59.356 It's like a choir sound almost as far as what 0:11:59.356 --> 0:12:01.596 what you were just playing. Yeah, I mean, yeah, that 0:12:03.556 --> 0:12:06.356 chord right there is like you know, I think you 0:12:06.516 --> 0:12:09.716 I use that a lot, like a dominant um. But 0:12:09.796 --> 0:12:12.956 I hear those voicings, those harmonies. That's a very cost 0:12:13.196 --> 0:12:15.476 thing as well. Yeah, wow, did you ever hear from 0:12:15.836 --> 0:12:18.956 Robin gibb or I just very good. Pardon right, yeah, 0:12:18.996 --> 0:12:22.836 I did well. I heard from the social media account. Okay, 0:12:23.756 --> 0:12:25.956 I talked to somebody, but no, I got word that 0:12:25.996 --> 0:12:29.196 they loved that version, and I'm I'm honored. Man. It 0:12:29.236 --> 0:12:31.356 was always one of my favorite songs and it was 0:12:31.396 --> 0:12:34.636 a last minute decision to record it. It became one 0:12:34.676 --> 0:12:37.436 of I have to play that now. You know. You 0:12:37.476 --> 0:12:40.196 recorded that on Ze on Gumbo. It's on Gumbo and 0:12:40.236 --> 0:12:43.316 then Gumbo Unplugged with Yebba, and then I did it 0:12:43.356 --> 0:12:47.836 on the Piano album again with Alex Eisley, a totally different, 0:12:47.956 --> 0:12:50.436 broken down piano version, yeah, which is a great great 0:12:50.476 --> 0:12:53.436 Your whole piano record is Oh, thank you man, it's fabulous. 0:12:54.156 --> 0:12:55.796 We have to take a quick break, but we'll be 0:12:55.876 --> 0:12:58.436 right back with more from Bruce Headlam and PJ Mortin. 0:13:02.556 --> 0:13:05.836 We're back with more from Bruce Heatham's conversation with PJ Martin. 0:13:06.796 --> 0:13:09.996 Did you study a lot of the traditional New Orleans players? 0:13:10.196 --> 0:13:13.756 You remind me of Alan Tussant maybe because you're a songwriter, yes, 0:13:13.836 --> 0:13:16.036 and you accompany a lot of people. I was a 0:13:16.116 --> 0:13:18.356 church kid, right, so I missed a lot of that 0:13:18.436 --> 0:13:21.076 and because I didn't read, I didn't go through the 0:13:21.116 --> 0:13:25.436 traditional jazz path in New Orleans. You know, it kind 0:13:25.476 --> 0:13:28.396 of made me an outcast actually growing up there, because 0:13:28.476 --> 0:13:33.476 I didn't fit into any New Orleans box. Really, Alan 0:13:33.516 --> 0:13:36.356 Tucsont later on in life became a blueprint for me 0:13:36.516 --> 0:13:39.876 because he represented what I wanted to be, you know, 0:13:39.996 --> 0:13:44.316 which was New Orleans through and through, but really lend 0:13:44.396 --> 0:13:47.476 my hand outside of New Orleans as well in a 0:13:47.516 --> 0:13:50.276 big way. The way he had a studio in New 0:13:50.396 --> 0:13:52.876 Orleans that was all his own, you know, it was 0:13:52.916 --> 0:13:55.356 a blueprint for me. And you're right, the way he 0:13:55.396 --> 0:13:57.796 was a producer for a lot of different artists is 0:13:57.836 --> 0:14:00.716 how I saw myself. So Alan Tussant was He was 0:14:00.756 --> 0:14:02.996 the person I looked to to say that's what I 0:14:03.036 --> 0:14:04.956 want to be, But that came later on in life. 0:14:04.956 --> 0:14:07.556 He was a couple of generations ahead of me. But no, 0:14:07.676 --> 0:14:09.276 I didn't. I didn't study in that way. I was 0:14:09.316 --> 0:14:13.996 studying gospel musicians and then I got when like Chick Carea. 0:14:14.076 --> 0:14:16.956 And for me, though although I was a musician, I 0:14:16.996 --> 0:14:20.116 was always drawn to the songs. It was always the 0:14:20.156 --> 0:14:22.596 songs over the plan, over the singing. So I never 0:14:22.636 --> 0:14:26.716 really studied outside of chick trying to learn Spain. I 0:14:27.116 --> 0:14:30.556 never really studied keys that way. I studied songwriters. So 0:14:30.796 --> 0:14:33.516 I was drawn to Stevie of course, Like that's what 0:14:33.676 --> 0:14:36.036 started it all for me. Do you remember what the 0:14:36.276 --> 0:14:38.476 song or album was with him? I do. I don't 0:14:38.516 --> 0:14:40.356 remember if it was an album, but a friend of 0:14:40.396 --> 0:14:42.676 mine gave me a cassette tape and I knew I'm 0:14:42.716 --> 0:14:45.556 an eighties baby, right, so I knew I just called 0:14:45.636 --> 0:14:48.316 to say I love you and you know, part time 0:14:48.396 --> 0:14:50.636 lover when I was you know, I knew those songs, 0:14:50.876 --> 0:14:53.516 but I hadn't heard that early voice and it was 0:14:53.836 --> 0:14:58.796 I ain't never dreamed You're leaving somebody that song. I 0:14:58.796 --> 0:15:01.436 can remember playing that cassette tape and hearing that and 0:15:01.636 --> 0:15:05.796 like my mind just like, how does why is this 0:15:05.916 --> 0:15:09.116 making me feel this way? You know? And soon after 0:15:09.476 --> 0:15:13.116 he gave me Donnie Live, Donnie Hathaway Live. It seemed 0:15:13.116 --> 0:15:15.516 like that was happening all like back to back to back, 0:15:15.596 --> 0:15:17.516 and my lad, I don't remember how much there was 0:15:17.556 --> 0:15:20.796 a break in it. But then I heard the Beatles 0:15:20.996 --> 0:15:23.396 and I'm like, we like, what are these melodies and 0:15:23.996 --> 0:15:26.716 how are they saying the same thing? But a different way. 0:15:26.756 --> 0:15:29.796 And then that got me to James Taylor somehow. Actually 0:15:29.836 --> 0:15:32.356 was watching an Awards show and they were honoring him 0:15:32.356 --> 0:15:34.316 and they were playing Fire and Rain as he was 0:15:34.356 --> 0:15:37.196 walking up, and I was like, what is that? You 0:15:37.236 --> 0:15:39.636 really were a church kid. You hadn't heard James Taylor. 0:15:39.676 --> 0:15:41.996 I hadn't heard James Taylor, and I knew the big stuff, 0:15:42.036 --> 0:15:44.836 you know, but like it was a different mind as 0:15:44.876 --> 0:15:47.596 a songwriter. It was like I started to want us 0:15:47.876 --> 0:15:50.436 do that. How wild were you when you heard Stevie 0:15:50.476 --> 0:15:54.716 wondering Donnie Hathaway? That was like twelve. Somebody gave me 0:15:54.796 --> 0:15:57.356 that stuff at twelve. Like again, I had heard Stevie 0:15:57.436 --> 0:15:59.316 and he was just a part of it, you know. 0:15:59.876 --> 0:16:03.036 I hadn't heard Donnie actually, but that was about twelve 0:16:03.236 --> 0:16:07.476 or thirteen. The Beatles my mom told me stories because 0:16:08.036 --> 0:16:11.596 my name's Paul, and my little sister was born and 0:16:11.716 --> 0:16:16.116 she got a Lullaby CD and it had Hey Jude 0:16:16.196 --> 0:16:18.636 on there. So I was really young at that time. 0:16:18.676 --> 0:16:21.276 I was probably seven, but I didn't really get to 0:16:21.276 --> 0:16:23.956 the Beatles until later. So what was it like when 0:16:24.036 --> 0:16:26.276 you finally met Stevie Wonder And how did you meet 0:16:26.316 --> 0:16:29.556 Stevie wonder So like Matt in person, there were a 0:16:29.596 --> 0:16:33.276 couple of like quick ones. Remer Kirk Franklin is the 0:16:33.316 --> 0:16:36.356 first person that introduced me to him in person, but 0:16:36.436 --> 0:16:40.596 that was really quick. And then twenty thirteen, I had 0:16:40.676 --> 0:16:43.756 a song called Only One that I wanted him to 0:16:43.796 --> 0:16:47.316 play harmonica and didn't know him at all. But I 0:16:47.356 --> 0:16:50.996 just was like, you know, I'm just gonna try stout 0:16:51.036 --> 0:16:54.636 to a drummer friend of mine, Teddy, who was played 0:16:54.636 --> 0:16:57.996 for him, and he hooked me up with a stylus 0:16:58.076 --> 0:17:00.116 of his who happened to be from New Orleans and 0:17:00.156 --> 0:17:02.196 it happened to be familiar with me, so she was 0:17:02.316 --> 0:17:04.356 down to get him the song. If you can get 0:17:04.356 --> 0:17:06.516 it to him, that's I mean, that's it's two things. 0:17:06.516 --> 0:17:08.156 He's got to want to do it and you gotta 0:17:08.196 --> 0:17:09.876 be able to get it to you know. But it's 0:17:09.916 --> 0:17:12.476 not like you can sell him on the idea of 0:17:12.516 --> 0:17:15.276 this being a good career move. Yeah, you know, it's 0:17:15.316 --> 0:17:18.916 like he just gotta want to do yeah. Yeah, man, Stevie, 0:17:18.956 --> 0:17:20.596 I'm telling you, if you just do this one, it's 0:17:20.636 --> 0:17:22.796 gonna take you to the top. You know. It was 0:17:22.836 --> 0:17:25.156 none of that. I feel like he heard some of 0:17:25.236 --> 0:17:28.916 himself in it and was down and he cut harmonica 0:17:28.916 --> 0:17:31.316 on it. That still hadn't met him in person. Then 0:17:31.316 --> 0:17:34.036 we were on a plane and I didn't know he 0:17:34.076 --> 0:17:37.156 was sitting behind me and I went to the restroom 0:17:37.276 --> 0:17:40.436 and Stevies comes behind me like meaning to use the 0:17:40.476 --> 0:17:44.196 restroom too, and I turned around like, Stevie, it's it's PJ. 0:17:44.316 --> 0:17:46.796 You just did my song and he was like, oh, 0:17:46.836 --> 0:17:50.996 I love that song. And we we connected then and 0:17:51.036 --> 0:17:53.516 that was special, but it didn't really turn into a 0:17:53.596 --> 0:17:57.836 full relationship until maybe three years ago. He invited me 0:17:57.916 --> 0:18:02.236 to do toys for Todds his Christmas thing, and we 0:18:02.356 --> 0:18:06.076 did a song together and we really started to build. 0:18:06.076 --> 0:18:09.356 Then after my album Gumbo first began, he told me 0:18:09.436 --> 0:18:11.076 love this song. He told me he wished that he 0:18:11.116 --> 0:18:13.596 wrote that song, which is, you know, I don't need 0:18:13.636 --> 0:18:16.556 any more compliments in life. That's it, you know, that's 0:18:16.596 --> 0:18:19.276 it for me. And so now we have a bond 0:18:19.516 --> 0:18:22.116 that is and I'm not over it. But he told me, 0:18:22.156 --> 0:18:24.396 like you can call me like you don't have to, 0:18:24.596 --> 0:18:28.236 you know, we're friends. I'm like, you're Stevie wonder though, 0:18:28.356 --> 0:18:30.756 you know, it's like more than I ever dreamed. This 0:18:30.836 --> 0:18:33.236 is that's the biggest that's the biggest thing I ever dreamed. 0:18:33.236 --> 0:18:36.396 So it's amazing. Have you ever talked about songwriting with him? 0:18:36.836 --> 0:18:38.876 We talk about it in a way we more talk 0:18:38.956 --> 0:18:42.836 about life. But what's fascinating about Stevie to me is 0:18:43.356 --> 0:18:46.236 his recall I don't have that, I can't I got. 0:18:46.436 --> 0:18:49.036 If I don't record it in my phone and like 0:18:49.116 --> 0:18:52.756 have a voice note, I'll forget something great. He'll recall 0:18:53.156 --> 0:18:55.916 ten songs that he's never put out that he's got 0:18:55.996 --> 0:18:58.076 and he'll just run through them. I think it just 0:18:58.116 --> 0:19:00.236 speaks to his genius. You know that he can hold 0:19:00.276 --> 0:19:02.596 all of this stuff full songs and me will play 0:19:02.636 --> 0:19:05.436 them for me. But we never really talked about technique 0:19:05.516 --> 0:19:08.716 or anything. I mean, I think he just appreciates what 0:19:08.756 --> 0:19:11.396 I do, and he tells me. He's not bashed for 0:19:11.476 --> 0:19:13.996 about telling me how much he supports me. I think 0:19:14.196 --> 0:19:16.356 that in general. I don't think that's unique to me. 0:19:16.716 --> 0:19:20.436 He's very encouraging to artists and writers that he believes in. 0:19:20.876 --> 0:19:23.716 Now you almost you've done a lot of producing. I 0:19:23.716 --> 0:19:27.556 think he wouldn't your first Grammy for India Aria, I think, yeah, 0:19:27.636 --> 0:19:31.556 well not technically, so I had to I had to 0:19:31.556 --> 0:19:34.676 come back. I thought the Grammy rules. I didn't get 0:19:34.716 --> 0:19:37.476 a trophy for that album. I wrote and produced on 0:19:37.516 --> 0:19:39.996 the album and it won Best R and B Album, 0:19:40.196 --> 0:19:42.676 But I didn't produce a certain percentage of the album, 0:19:42.916 --> 0:19:44.676 so I didn't get a trophy for it. But yeah, 0:19:44.756 --> 0:19:47.116 I was a part of this Grammy Award winning album 0:19:47.116 --> 0:19:49.636 my junior year in college. Yeah, wow, did you take 0:19:49.636 --> 0:19:51.996 time off from college for that? No? I went right. 0:19:52.356 --> 0:19:54.036 It made me want to quit. The only thing that 0:19:54.076 --> 0:19:56.076 got me through is I had one semester left. I 0:19:56.116 --> 0:19:58.916 finished more House in three and a half years, and 0:19:58.956 --> 0:20:01.836 that was my junior year. The first semester and I 0:20:01.916 --> 0:20:04.276 was like, oh, this is all I want to do, Like, 0:20:04.596 --> 0:20:06.556 I got to get out of here. But I had 0:20:06.596 --> 0:20:09.516 like one more semester, something like, let me just knocked 0:20:09.516 --> 0:20:12.716 this out. That's the best summer job ever. Oh, for sure, 0:20:12.796 --> 0:20:15.796 I was mowing one. You were winning Grammy, Man, it 0:20:15.916 --> 0:20:19.356 was amazing. I moved off campus my second year and 0:20:19.636 --> 0:20:23.076 met Indi re right there in the apartments we were 0:20:23.116 --> 0:20:25.636 living in. Well, her brother was living there, and she 0:20:25.756 --> 0:20:27.876 happened to be up there and heard me playing the piano, 0:20:28.316 --> 0:20:31.556 and we started talking about Stevie Wonder and she hadn't 0:20:31.596 --> 0:20:34.676 put out her first motown record yet, and she let 0:20:34.716 --> 0:20:36.916 me hear that, and so when the other one came around, 0:20:36.996 --> 0:20:39.556 we were friends by then, and I had this little 0:20:39.596 --> 0:20:41.916 song and played it for and she loved it. And 0:20:42.276 --> 0:20:45.236 the restless history and you'd never produced before that. I 0:20:45.236 --> 0:20:48.556 had produced some gospel stuff, yeah, because my first placement 0:20:49.076 --> 0:20:52.796 as a producer was when I was sixteen. Yeah, fifteen, 0:20:52.836 --> 0:20:55.596 I did the song sixteen it came out, and so 0:20:55.636 --> 0:20:57.836 I kind of was used to it a little bit, 0:20:57.876 --> 0:21:00.356 but that, in my mind, that is the first thing 0:21:00.356 --> 0:21:03.396 that I truly produced. But then after a couple of 0:21:03.396 --> 0:21:05.636 your own albums, you were gonna you were gonna stop 0:21:05.636 --> 0:21:09.916 doing solo stuff? Yeah? Why what was going on? Yeah? 0:21:09.956 --> 0:21:13.236 Right before Gumbo, I was just Gumbo was going to 0:21:13.316 --> 0:21:16.156 be the last thing I think for me. I had 0:21:16.196 --> 0:21:20.516 been pushing independently for a long time, and you know, 0:21:20.956 --> 0:21:23.356 it's an uphill battle. I mean, it can be, you know, 0:21:23.596 --> 0:21:25.756 and I just felt like I didn't necessarily fit in. 0:21:25.836 --> 0:21:28.116 I would give these songs, I could write songs for 0:21:28.156 --> 0:21:30.836 other people, but when I did my presentation, it was 0:21:30.876 --> 0:21:33.236 just kind of like the labels didn't get it. You know. 0:21:33.316 --> 0:21:35.636 We went to every label at one time and couldn't 0:21:35.676 --> 0:21:38.796 get signed, and I just felt like, all right, listen. 0:21:39.076 --> 0:21:41.156 I was in my room five a few years by then, 0:21:41.276 --> 0:21:43.396 and I'm like, you know, this is great. I mean, 0:21:43.436 --> 0:21:46.756 I'm fine. You know, I was still producing, right, and 0:21:46.836 --> 0:21:49.676