1 00:00:15,436 --> 00:00:22,916 Speaker 1: Pushkin. Hey everyone, Today we begin our month long celebration 2 00:00:22,956 --> 00:00:25,676 Speaker 1: of Black Music Month with p J. Morton, the New 3 00:00:25,796 --> 00:00:29,876 Speaker 1: Orleans based singer, songwriter, producer, and keyboardist of Maroon five. 4 00:00:30,676 --> 00:00:33,316 Speaker 1: Morton recently earned a Grammy Award for Album of the 5 00:00:33,396 --> 00:00:37,396 Speaker 1: Year for his contributions to John Battize We Are. But 6 00:00:37,436 --> 00:00:39,796 Speaker 1: even though he's been up from multiple Grammys, he almost 7 00:00:39,836 --> 00:00:42,596 Speaker 1: gave up on the idea of a solo career altogether. 8 00:00:43,156 --> 00:00:45,316 Speaker 1: But then he moved back home to New Orleans and 9 00:00:45,436 --> 00:00:47,996 Speaker 1: reconnected with what got him interested in music in the 10 00:00:48,116 --> 00:00:53,556 Speaker 1: first place. Now, Morten's releasing his eighth studio album, Watched 11 00:00:53,596 --> 00:00:55,916 Speaker 1: the Sun. The new album was made up of eleven 12 00:00:55,996 --> 00:01:00,756 Speaker 1: original songs and features collaborations with artists like Stevie Wonder, Nas, 13 00:01:01,156 --> 00:01:05,516 Speaker 1: Jill Scott, and Wallet. On today's episode, p J Morton 14 00:01:05,516 --> 00:01:07,316 Speaker 1: talks to Bruce held Them about what it was like 15 00:01:07,356 --> 00:01:10,116 Speaker 1: growing up a preacher's son and how his relationship with 16 00:01:10,196 --> 00:01:14,156 Speaker 1: gospel impacted the way he makes music. He also talks 17 00:01:14,156 --> 00:01:17,276 Speaker 1: about being a recovering workaholic and his friendship with the 18 00:01:17,356 --> 00:01:23,876 Speaker 1: great Stevie Wonder. This is broken record Liner notes for 19 00:01:23,956 --> 00:01:27,956 Speaker 1: the digital age. I'm justin Mitchell here's Bruce Head them 20 00:01:27,956 --> 00:01:31,236 Speaker 1: and p J. Morton. You played organ growing up, right? 21 00:01:31,396 --> 00:01:34,796 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, what was the organ in your church? Yeah? 22 00:01:34,876 --> 00:01:36,996 Speaker 1: I could be three? It was okay, Yeah, it was 23 00:01:36,996 --> 00:01:40,716 Speaker 1: auld B three. Uh yeah. My brother in law taught me. 24 00:01:41,156 --> 00:01:44,516 Speaker 1: I learned on the job basically and by ear, you know, 25 00:01:44,596 --> 00:01:47,916 Speaker 1: but he taught me to draw bars and settings, and 26 00:01:48,116 --> 00:01:50,396 Speaker 1: I kind of just built from there. Yeah. I was 27 00:01:50,436 --> 00:01:52,836 Speaker 1: amazed to hear that. Well, I heard it on your record. 28 00:01:52,956 --> 00:01:56,196 Speaker 1: You said it. You don't read music. I don't read music. Yeah, 29 00:01:56,356 --> 00:02:01,396 Speaker 1: so you learned to play in church by ear by ear? Yeah, 30 00:02:02,716 --> 00:02:05,036 Speaker 1: it kind of blows my mind. You know, when I 31 00:02:05,076 --> 00:02:07,996 Speaker 1: think about the things I can play, I just remember 32 00:02:08,076 --> 00:02:11,316 Speaker 1: not being able to play, and then I remember being 33 00:02:11,356 --> 00:02:13,916 Speaker 1: able to play. I don't really remember learning. Like the 34 00:02:13,916 --> 00:02:16,116 Speaker 1: only thing I remember I would just play the same 35 00:02:16,196 --> 00:02:17,956 Speaker 1: thing over and over, and then I would make a 36 00:02:17,996 --> 00:02:20,956 Speaker 1: mistake and my ear would say, oh, that's the chord 37 00:02:21,036 --> 00:02:24,076 Speaker 1: from that song. Oh that's how they did that. It 38 00:02:24,236 --> 00:02:27,116 Speaker 1: literally like one foot in front of the other. Now, 39 00:02:27,556 --> 00:02:32,636 Speaker 1: your album New Orleans begins with a tape of your father, 40 00:02:33,036 --> 00:02:37,396 Speaker 1: Paul S Martin. That's right, yeah, introducing you at church. Well, 41 00:02:37,436 --> 00:02:39,596 Speaker 1: we were actually at home or you were at home. Yeah, 42 00:02:39,676 --> 00:02:44,556 Speaker 1: so my dad every year since like nineteen eighty three. 43 00:02:44,716 --> 00:02:47,156 Speaker 1: I mean, I remember the camp chords got smaller and 44 00:02:47,196 --> 00:02:49,836 Speaker 1: smaller through the years. That was the big one. Every 45 00:02:49,876 --> 00:02:52,556 Speaker 1: year though, we would have a talent showcase during Christmas. 46 00:02:53,196 --> 00:02:55,396 Speaker 1: It was me and my sisters. We all had to 47 00:02:55,436 --> 00:02:58,196 Speaker 1: do something. You know. My sister was a singer. You 48 00:02:58,196 --> 00:03:00,236 Speaker 1: can see me through the years ago from drums to 49 00:03:00,316 --> 00:03:03,276 Speaker 1: trying to play guitar to finally you see me set 50 00:03:03,476 --> 00:03:06,556 Speaker 1: land on piano about seven years old or eight, you know, 51 00:03:07,116 --> 00:03:09,516 Speaker 1: and that was I think that was eight or nine. 52 00:03:09,916 --> 00:03:11,956 Speaker 1: Do you remember what you played? Yeah, I used to 53 00:03:11,956 --> 00:03:25,996 Speaker 1: think I invented this. It was like, oh no, I 54 00:03:26,116 --> 00:03:28,476 Speaker 1: really thought that I wrote that. I don't know why 55 00:03:28,476 --> 00:03:30,516 Speaker 1: I thought that, but that was what I played. I 56 00:03:30,636 --> 00:03:34,236 Speaker 1: remember that clearly. Now you're playing in church. Your father 57 00:03:34,556 --> 00:03:36,636 Speaker 1: ran the church. Oh yeah, he was the pastor and 58 00:03:36,756 --> 00:03:39,476 Speaker 1: of course an amazing singer as well, so music was 59 00:03:39,516 --> 00:03:43,756 Speaker 1: really important. Yeah. Now, what was the relationship between church 60 00:03:43,876 --> 00:03:47,796 Speaker 1: music and secular music in your house? Because your dad 61 00:03:47,996 --> 00:03:50,876 Speaker 1: is a very big gospel singer. Yes, he's a very 62 00:03:50,916 --> 00:03:54,476 Speaker 1: big gospel singer who also was born and raised in 63 00:03:54,556 --> 00:03:58,236 Speaker 1: wins Or, Ontario. Canada, so he was right across the 64 00:03:58,276 --> 00:04:02,036 Speaker 1: tunnel from Detroit. So there was so much music in gospel. 65 00:04:02,076 --> 00:04:05,156 Speaker 1: Of course the Whinings and Cluck Sisters, but Stevie and 66 00:04:05,236 --> 00:04:07,436 Speaker 1: all of that stuff that was happening as well. So 67 00:04:07,756 --> 00:04:10,916 Speaker 1: there was a high appreation for music in the house 68 00:04:11,276 --> 00:04:13,196 Speaker 1: and it was almost like you could listen to it 69 00:04:13,236 --> 00:04:15,916 Speaker 1: because not on Sundays. We weren't allowed to listen to 70 00:04:15,996 --> 00:04:19,116 Speaker 1: secular music on Sundays on the radio. It would had 71 00:04:19,156 --> 00:04:22,196 Speaker 1: to be gospel music. But one of my dad's favorite 72 00:04:22,236 --> 00:04:27,276 Speaker 1: singers was Anita Baker. I remember Michael Jackson and Prince 73 00:04:27,476 --> 00:04:30,956 Speaker 1: and Stevie and Whitney Houston. I remember hearing that stuff 74 00:04:30,956 --> 00:04:33,716 Speaker 1: in the household too, here and there. You know. One 75 00:04:33,716 --> 00:04:36,716 Speaker 1: of your dad's big hits, let It Rain, Yes, which 76 00:04:36,716 --> 00:04:39,716 Speaker 1: he did after Katrina. He does a little purple rain 77 00:04:39,756 --> 00:04:41,796 Speaker 1: in this A little purple rain. Yeah. I used to try. 78 00:04:41,796 --> 00:04:44,316 Speaker 1: I used to travel with him as he ministered, you know, 79 00:04:44,956 --> 00:04:47,636 Speaker 1: and did revivals and stuff. We would go full purple 80 00:04:47,716 --> 00:04:50,076 Speaker 1: rain on there. So it was all right. Yeah, So 81 00:04:50,156 --> 00:04:53,076 Speaker 1: that's what I mean by the influence was always there. 82 00:04:53,236 --> 00:04:55,756 Speaker 1: My dad is a musician, so you know, as a musician, 83 00:04:55,796 --> 00:04:58,236 Speaker 1: you can't pick and choose what's good and bad. I 84 00:04:58,276 --> 00:05:01,196 Speaker 1: think it became more of an issue if you decided 85 00:05:01,236 --> 00:05:03,916 Speaker 1: to be a recording artist doing that. You know, once 86 00:05:03,956 --> 00:05:06,596 Speaker 1: you decided, oh, I'm gonna be a secular artist, that 87 00:05:06,716 --> 00:05:09,676 Speaker 1: is kind of when you started to get some pushback. Okay, 88 00:05:09,676 --> 00:05:11,876 Speaker 1: and did you get pushed back from him? I did. Yeah. 89 00:05:11,916 --> 00:05:14,396 Speaker 1: Initially I got pushed back because I was a very 90 00:05:14,596 --> 00:05:17,996 Speaker 1: young songwriter. So I think for a preacher's kid, it 91 00:05:18,036 --> 00:05:21,236 Speaker 1: always comes off as rebellion at first. You know, he's 92 00:05:21,316 --> 00:05:24,076 Speaker 1: just trying to go against what we're doing. You're a PK. 93 00:05:24,396 --> 00:05:27,316 Speaker 1: I'm a p K. Yeah, I'm a PK. But for me, 94 00:05:27,396 --> 00:05:29,436 Speaker 1: it was much purer than that, and it was coming 95 00:05:29,476 --> 00:05:32,916 Speaker 1: from a real place. And I think once they realized 96 00:05:32,996 --> 00:05:36,716 Speaker 1: it wasn't like a rebellious phase, they became like my 97 00:05:36,836 --> 00:05:41,156 Speaker 1: number one supporters. It wasn't this is the family business. Yeah, 98 00:05:41,196 --> 00:05:43,916 Speaker 1: I felt that pressure initially. I was it's me and 99 00:05:43,996 --> 00:05:47,556 Speaker 1: my two sisters. I'm the only boy. I'm his namesake. 100 00:05:47,796 --> 00:05:51,236 Speaker 1: You know. The jais for Junior, you know, so it 101 00:05:51,276 --> 00:05:53,796 Speaker 1: was almost like that path was written out for me. 102 00:05:53,916 --> 00:05:56,356 Speaker 1: I mean, it was like this is yours, you know, 103 00:05:56,756 --> 00:05:58,876 Speaker 1: But for me, I didn't want that, and my dad 104 00:05:58,876 --> 00:06:01,636 Speaker 1: never quite put that pressure on me. It was more 105 00:06:01,676 --> 00:06:05,796 Speaker 1: coming from everybody else members, or like just in general, 106 00:06:05,836 --> 00:06:08,116 Speaker 1: because my dad was known outside of just our church. 107 00:06:08,116 --> 00:06:10,156 Speaker 1: Of course, he traveled all around the world, and I 108 00:06:10,196 --> 00:06:12,756 Speaker 1: think everybody just assumed that. So I felt the pressure 109 00:06:12,796 --> 00:06:17,076 Speaker 1: from everywhere. But internally, I think my dad saw something 110 00:06:17,076 --> 00:06:19,076 Speaker 1: in me and saw that I was going to be different, 111 00:06:19,116 --> 00:06:23,036 Speaker 1: and he eventually empowered me to do that. He came around, 112 00:06:23,156 --> 00:06:26,116 Speaker 1: oh yeah, big time. I don't know the gospel style 113 00:06:26,236 --> 00:06:28,396 Speaker 1: so well, is there a lot of Detroit gospel and 114 00:06:28,436 --> 00:06:31,876 Speaker 1: what your dad did? Oh yeah, what's Detroit gospel? What's 115 00:06:31,996 --> 00:06:35,596 Speaker 1: New Orleans gospel? I think New Orleans gospel always felt 116 00:06:35,636 --> 00:06:39,036 Speaker 1: like New Orleans music in general. It was I think 117 00:06:39,076 --> 00:06:41,036 Speaker 1: the blues and the jazz of all of that was 118 00:06:41,076 --> 00:06:44,196 Speaker 1: all mixed. In Detroit at that time when I was 119 00:06:44,236 --> 00:06:47,236 Speaker 1: growing up, was always kind of ahead of the game. 120 00:06:47,316 --> 00:06:52,916 Speaker 1: I mean, when you talk about them, like the Clark's Sisters, Twinkie, 121 00:06:52,916 --> 00:06:55,356 Speaker 1: who was the producer and one of the lead singers 122 00:06:55,356 --> 00:06:58,036 Speaker 1: of The Clark's Sisters, it sounded like Stevie Wonder. It 123 00:06:58,116 --> 00:07:01,036 Speaker 1: just had gospel lyrics. So they were pushing that line 124 00:07:01,076 --> 00:07:04,396 Speaker 1: of it feeling like what current music was doing. She 125 00:07:04,476 --> 00:07:07,756 Speaker 1: said she got that song from like master blaster, you know, 126 00:07:07,996 --> 00:07:15,116 Speaker 1: but it's saying do mean that day name way, So 127 00:07:15,196 --> 00:07:18,236 Speaker 1: it was like very modern, you know, for that time 128 00:07:18,596 --> 00:07:48,596 Speaker 1: in New Orleans, I think was still in the you know, 129 00:07:49,476 --> 00:07:52,236 Speaker 1: someone in a traditional sense. Everybody says, well, it's a 130 00:07:52,276 --> 00:07:54,876 Speaker 1: gospel piano player. I don't really know what that means. 131 00:07:54,876 --> 00:07:56,676 Speaker 1: People say, well, this is the gospel scale. I think 132 00:07:56,876 --> 00:08:00,516 Speaker 1: that's just the scale. Everybody uses this, I think maybe 133 00:08:00,556 --> 00:08:03,756 Speaker 1: gift and curse. But because I didn't learn music, I 134 00:08:03,796 --> 00:08:05,756 Speaker 1: can't relate to any of that. I don't I don't 135 00:08:05,756 --> 00:08:08,116 Speaker 1: even know scales, so I don't you know, you don't 136 00:08:08,116 --> 00:08:10,316 Speaker 1: know any scales. I mean, I don't know what they are. 137 00:08:12,036 --> 00:08:14,276 Speaker 1: You know, I know, but and I know that's a 138 00:08:14,356 --> 00:08:16,756 Speaker 1: g major scale, but I don't know what a gospel 139 00:08:16,796 --> 00:08:19,316 Speaker 1: scale is. I mean, I guess some people would look 140 00:08:19,316 --> 00:08:22,596 Speaker 1: down on that, you know, which is there was some purists, 141 00:08:22,676 --> 00:08:25,436 Speaker 1: you know. I have a weird relationship with some purists 142 00:08:25,436 --> 00:08:28,196 Speaker 1: because I think the genius is being able to do it, 143 00:08:28,356 --> 00:08:31,516 Speaker 1: you know, without being taught. I think that before there 144 00:08:31,596 --> 00:08:34,436 Speaker 1: was notation, somebody had to play it to write it. 145 00:08:34,516 --> 00:08:39,796 Speaker 1: And I think somewhere along the line notation became higher 146 00:08:39,876 --> 00:08:42,436 Speaker 1: than being able to do it. But I take pride 147 00:08:42,436 --> 00:08:45,556 Speaker 1: in the fact that it came through me. It comes 148 00:08:45,596 --> 00:08:47,516 Speaker 1: through me, and that it's a gift that was given 149 00:08:47,556 --> 00:08:50,996 Speaker 1: to me. I'm in a huge pop band, you know 150 00:08:50,996 --> 00:08:54,356 Speaker 1: what I'm saying, Just like, I just play music whatever 151 00:08:54,356 --> 00:08:56,916 Speaker 1: the moment calls for. So I don't really get into 152 00:08:56,956 --> 00:08:59,556 Speaker 1: that or I'm not even sure what that means exactly. 153 00:08:59,596 --> 00:09:02,316 Speaker 1: Of course, I can play church music because that is 154 00:09:02,356 --> 00:09:04,716 Speaker 1: my foundation, you know, but I don't know that I 155 00:09:04,716 --> 00:09:08,196 Speaker 1: would consider myself a gospel piano play. Well, your your 156 00:09:08,196 --> 00:09:10,876 Speaker 1: friend John Batigue, Yeah, he went to juid he wants 157 00:09:10,876 --> 00:09:12,836 Speaker 1: to Juilliard. Yes, so you can just say to him, yeah, 158 00:09:12,876 --> 00:09:16,556 Speaker 1: I didn't have to do that. I mean, listen, I 159 00:09:16,596 --> 00:09:19,356 Speaker 1: think those things and it depends where you're taking it, right. 160 00:09:19,396 --> 00:09:22,436 Speaker 1: I mean, he's able to score soul and like do 161 00:09:22,516 --> 00:09:25,876 Speaker 1: all these amazing things. You know, these these different things 162 00:09:25,876 --> 00:09:29,676 Speaker 1: are tools for different paths, and he's undoubtedly a genius. 163 00:09:29,716 --> 00:09:31,876 Speaker 1: I mean when he sits at this piano, yes he 164 00:09:32,036 --> 00:09:34,876 Speaker 1: learned the notes, but you can't teach what he does. 165 00:09:35,156 --> 00:09:39,396 Speaker 1: I remember, you know a friend of mine who actually 166 00:09:39,556 --> 00:09:42,116 Speaker 1: was who did go to Berkeley and came to start 167 00:09:42,116 --> 00:09:44,036 Speaker 1: playing with me. He would tell me stuff like that's 168 00:09:44,116 --> 00:09:49,516 Speaker 1: wrong or you playing that wrong, and I was like, 169 00:09:49,836 --> 00:09:52,596 Speaker 1: you know what do you There's no such thing, you 170 00:09:52,636 --> 00:09:55,356 Speaker 1: know what I mean? And he had to eventually learn that. 171 00:09:55,836 --> 00:09:59,076 Speaker 1: But I do think, yeah, because I don't know. It 172 00:09:59,116 --> 00:10:02,316 Speaker 1: allows me to not know what the boundaries are supposed 173 00:10:02,316 --> 00:10:04,796 Speaker 1: to be. And also the things that I listened to, 174 00:10:04,956 --> 00:10:07,596 Speaker 1: I mean, when you talk about Stevie or you talk 175 00:10:07,636 --> 00:10:11,036 Speaker 1: about Quincy, they would have different choices, you know, And 176 00:10:11,316 --> 00:10:13,516 Speaker 1: these are the things that I that I grew up 177 00:10:13,516 --> 00:10:17,436 Speaker 1: paying attention to the Beatles as well. I mean when 178 00:10:17,436 --> 00:10:20,516 Speaker 1: you talk about like different chords and different structures, those 179 00:10:20,516 --> 00:10:23,476 Speaker 1: guys they were they were all about it. Can you 180 00:10:23,516 --> 00:10:26,916 Speaker 1: show me, and maybe this will probably help listeners. You've 181 00:10:26,956 --> 00:10:30,156 Speaker 1: done a couple great versions of How Deep Is Your Love? Yeah, 182 00:10:30,196 --> 00:10:32,636 Speaker 1: And a lot of your music is like this, including 183 00:10:32,676 --> 00:10:35,196 Speaker 1: your gospel music. Your gospel music sounds like love songs. 184 00:10:35,236 --> 00:10:38,076 Speaker 1: Your love song sound like gospel music, which is always nice. 185 00:10:38,276 --> 00:10:42,276 Speaker 1: It was because he talking about God or you gotta listen. Yeah, 186 00:10:42,276 --> 00:10:44,716 Speaker 1: So can you just show me when you probably heard 187 00:10:44,796 --> 00:10:46,756 Speaker 1: that song growing up in the ears because it was 188 00:10:46,756 --> 00:10:49,236 Speaker 1: on radio when you sat down to say, okay, I'm 189 00:10:49,236 --> 00:10:51,116 Speaker 1: going to try and play. What was that process? Yea, 190 00:10:51,156 --> 00:10:53,436 Speaker 1: it was so crazy. Is My sister and I used 191 00:10:53,436 --> 00:10:56,836 Speaker 1: to transform songs from I mean, Annie was our favorite 192 00:10:56,876 --> 00:10:59,956 Speaker 1: movie growing up, so I would always always already hear 193 00:10:59,996 --> 00:11:06,996 Speaker 1: those songs a certain way like so, bgs are you 194 00:11:08,276 --> 00:11:12,516 Speaker 1: I really need to? Right? And for me, I heard 195 00:11:12,516 --> 00:11:18,956 Speaker 1: it a deep bits your life, I really mean to 196 00:11:22,236 --> 00:11:25,676 Speaker 1: that's church right there? Okay, stop there? What's the church 197 00:11:25,716 --> 00:11:30,516 Speaker 1: about it? Because you just don't really that's where I 198 00:11:30,636 --> 00:11:33,516 Speaker 1: That's why I hear that voicing. When I say church, 199 00:11:33,596 --> 00:11:35,556 Speaker 1: I mean the voicing of it, because I could have 200 00:11:35,596 --> 00:11:47,196 Speaker 1: easily said because yeah, right, but I said, you know, 201 00:11:47,796 --> 00:11:50,876 Speaker 1: it's just some voicings that I mean, some people call 202 00:11:50,916 --> 00:11:53,116 Speaker 1: it church, some people call it soul. I hear it 203 00:11:53,156 --> 00:11:56,516 Speaker 1: that way in my head, and they're probably vocal lines originally, right, 204 00:11:56,556 --> 00:11:59,356 Speaker 1: It's like a choir sound almost as far as what 205 00:11:59,356 --> 00:12:01,596 Speaker 1: what you were just playing. Yeah, I mean, yeah, that 206 00:12:03,556 --> 00:12:06,356 Speaker 1: chord right there is like you know, I think you 207 00:12:06,516 --> 00:12:09,716 Speaker 1: I use that a lot, like a dominant um. But 208 00:12:09,796 --> 00:12:12,956 Speaker 1: I hear those voicings, those harmonies. That's a very cost 209 00:12:13,196 --> 00:12:15,476 Speaker 1: thing as well. Yeah, wow, did you ever hear from 210 00:12:15,836 --> 00:12:18,956 Speaker 1: Robin gibb or I just very good. Pardon right, yeah, 211 00:12:18,996 --> 00:12:22,836 Speaker 1: I did well. I heard from the social media account. Okay, 212 00:12:23,756 --> 00:12:25,956 Speaker 1: I talked to somebody, but no, I got word that 213 00:12:25,996 --> 00:12:29,196 Speaker 1: they loved that version, and I'm I'm honored. Man. It 214 00:12:29,236 --> 00:12:31,356 Speaker 1: was always one of my favorite songs and it was 215 00:12:31,396 --> 00:12:34,636 Speaker 1: a last minute decision to record it. It became one 216 00:12:34,676 --> 00:12:37,436 Speaker 1: of I have to play that now. You know. You 217 00:12:37,476 --> 00:12:40,196 Speaker 1: recorded that on Ze on Gumbo. It's on Gumbo and 218 00:12:40,236 --> 00:12:43,316 Speaker 1: then Gumbo Unplugged with Yebba, and then I did it 219 00:12:43,356 --> 00:12:47,836 Speaker 1: on the Piano album again with Alex Eisley, a totally different, 220 00:12:47,956 --> 00:12:50,436 Speaker 1: broken down piano version, yeah, which is a great great 221 00:12:50,476 --> 00:12:53,436 Speaker 1: Your whole piano record is Oh, thank you man, it's fabulous. 222 00:12:54,156 --> 00:12:55,796 Speaker 1: We have to take a quick break, but we'll be 223 00:12:55,876 --> 00:12:58,436 Speaker 1: right back with more from Bruce Headlam and PJ Mortin. 224 00:13:02,556 --> 00:13:05,836 Speaker 1: We're back with more from Bruce Heatham's conversation with PJ Martin. 225 00:13:06,796 --> 00:13:09,996 Speaker 1: Did you study a lot of the traditional New Orleans players? 226 00:13:10,196 --> 00:13:13,756 Speaker 1: You remind me of Alan Tussant maybe because you're a songwriter, yes, 227 00:13:13,836 --> 00:13:16,036 Speaker 1: and you accompany a lot of people. I was a 228 00:13:16,116 --> 00:13:18,356 Speaker 1: church kid, right, so I missed a lot of that 229 00:13:18,436 --> 00:13:21,076 Speaker 1: and because I didn't read, I didn't go through the 230 00:13:21,116 --> 00:13:25,436 Speaker 1: traditional jazz path in New Orleans. You know, it kind 231 00:13:25,476 --> 00:13:28,396 Speaker 1: of made me an outcast actually growing up there, because 232 00:13:28,476 --> 00:13:33,476 Speaker 1: I didn't fit into any New Orleans box. Really, Alan 233 00:13:33,516 --> 00:13:36,356 Speaker 1: Tucsont later on in life became a blueprint for me 234 00:13:36,516 --> 00:13:39,876 Speaker 1: because he represented what I wanted to be, you know, 235 00:13:39,996 --> 00:13:44,316 Speaker 1: which was New Orleans through and through, but really lend 236 00:13:44,396 --> 00:13:47,476 Speaker 1: my hand outside of New Orleans as well in a 237 00:13:47,516 --> 00:13:50,276 Speaker 1: big way. The way he had a studio in New 238 00:13:50,396 --> 00:13:52,876 Speaker 1: Orleans that was all his own, you know, it was 239 00:13:52,916 --> 00:13:55,356 Speaker 1: a blueprint for me. And you're right, the way he 240 00:13:55,396 --> 00:13:57,796 Speaker 1: was a producer for a lot of different artists is 241 00:13:57,836 --> 00:14:00,716 Speaker 1: how I saw myself. So Alan Tussant was He was 242 00:14:00,756 --> 00:14:02,996 Speaker 1: the person I looked to to say that's what I 243 00:14:03,036 --> 00:14:04,956 Speaker 1: want to be, But that came later on in life. 244 00:14:04,956 --> 00:14:07,556 Speaker 1: He was a couple of generations ahead of me. But no, 245 00:14:07,676 --> 00:14:09,276 Speaker 1: I didn't. I didn't study in that way. I was 246 00:14:09,316 --> 00:14:13,996 Speaker 1: studying gospel musicians and then I got when like Chick Carea. 247 00:14:14,076 --> 00:14:16,956 Speaker 1: And for me, though although I was a musician, I 248 00:14:16,996 --> 00:14:20,116 Speaker 1: was always drawn to the songs. It was always the 249 00:14:20,156 --> 00:14:22,596 Speaker 1: songs over the plan, over the singing. So I never 250 00:14:22,636 --> 00:14:26,716 Speaker 1: really studied outside of chick trying to learn Spain. I 251 00:14:27,116 --> 00:14:30,556 Speaker 1: never really studied keys that way. I studied songwriters. So 252 00:14:30,796 --> 00:14:33,516 Speaker 1: I was drawn to Stevie of course, Like that's what 253 00:14:33,676 --> 00:14:36,036 Speaker 1: started it all for me. Do you remember what the 254 00:14:36,276 --> 00:14:38,476 Speaker 1: song or album was with him? I do. I don't 255 00:14:38,516 --> 00:14:40,356 Speaker 1: remember if it was an album, but a friend of 256 00:14:40,396 --> 00:14:42,676 Speaker 1: mine gave me a cassette tape and I knew I'm 257 00:14:42,716 --> 00:14:45,556 Speaker 1: an eighties baby, right, so I knew I just called 258 00:14:45,636 --> 00:14:48,316 Speaker 1: to say I love you and you know, part time 259 00:14:48,396 --> 00:14:50,636 Speaker 1: lover when I was you know, I knew those songs, 260 00:14:50,876 --> 00:14:53,516 Speaker 1: but I hadn't heard that early voice and it was 261 00:14:53,836 --> 00:14:58,796 Speaker 1: I ain't never dreamed You're leaving somebody that song. I 262 00:14:58,796 --> 00:15:01,436 Speaker 1: can remember playing that cassette tape and hearing that and 263 00:15:01,636 --> 00:15:05,796 Speaker 1: like my mind just like, how does why is this 264 00:15:05,916 --> 00:15:09,116 Speaker 1: making me feel this way? You know? And soon after 265 00:15:09,476 --> 00:15:13,116 Speaker 1: he gave me Donnie Live, Donnie Hathaway Live. It seemed 266 00:15:13,116 --> 00:15:15,516 Speaker 1: like that was happening all like back to back to back, 267 00:15:15,596 --> 00:15:17,516 Speaker 1: and my lad, I don't remember how much there was 268 00:15:17,556 --> 00:15:20,796 Speaker 1: a break in it. But then I heard the Beatles 269 00:15:20,996 --> 00:15:23,396 Speaker 1: and I'm like, we like, what are these melodies and 270 00:15:23,996 --> 00:15:26,716 Speaker 1: how are they saying the same thing? But a different way. 271 00:15:26,756 --> 00:15:29,796 Speaker 1: And then that got me to James Taylor somehow. Actually 272 00:15:29,836 --> 00:15:32,356 Speaker 1: was watching an Awards show and they were honoring him 273 00:15:32,356 --> 00:15:34,316 Speaker 1: and they were playing Fire and Rain as he was 274 00:15:34,356 --> 00:15:37,196 Speaker 1: walking up, and I was like, what is that? You 275 00:15:37,236 --> 00:15:39,636 Speaker 1: really were a church kid. You hadn't heard James Taylor. 276 00:15:39,676 --> 00:15:41,996 Speaker 1: I hadn't heard James Taylor, and I knew the big stuff, 277 00:15:42,036 --> 00:15:44,836 Speaker 1: you know, but like it was a different mind as 278 00:15:44,876 --> 00:15:47,596 Speaker 1: a songwriter. It was like I started to want us 279 00:15:47,876 --> 00:15:50,436 Speaker 1: do that. How wild were you when you heard Stevie 280 00:15:50,476 --> 00:15:54,716 Speaker 1: wondering Donnie Hathaway? That was like twelve. Somebody gave me 281 00:15:54,796 --> 00:15:57,356 Speaker 1: that stuff at twelve. Like again, I had heard Stevie 282 00:15:57,436 --> 00:15:59,316 Speaker 1: and he was just a part of it, you know. 283 00:15:59,876 --> 00:16:03,036 Speaker 1: I hadn't heard Donnie actually, but that was about twelve 284 00:16:03,236 --> 00:16:07,476 Speaker 1: or thirteen. The Beatles my mom told me stories because 285 00:16:08,036 --> 00:16:11,596 Speaker 1: my name's Paul, and my little sister was born and 286 00:16:11,716 --> 00:16:16,116 Speaker 1: she got a Lullaby CD and it had Hey Jude 287 00:16:16,196 --> 00:16:18,636 Speaker 1: on there. So I was really young at that time. 288 00:16:18,676 --> 00:16:21,276 Speaker 1: I was probably seven, but I didn't really get to 289 00:16:21,276 --> 00:16:23,956 Speaker 1: the Beatles until later. So what was it like when 290 00:16:24,036 --> 00:16:26,276 Speaker 1: you finally met Stevie Wonder And how did you meet 291 00:16:26,316 --> 00:16:29,556 Speaker 1: Stevie wonder So like Matt in person, there were a 292 00:16:29,596 --> 00:16:33,276 Speaker 1: couple of like quick ones. Remer Kirk Franklin is the 293 00:16:33,316 --> 00:16:36,356 Speaker 1: first person that introduced me to him in person, but 294 00:16:36,436 --> 00:16:40,596 Speaker 1: that was really quick. And then twenty thirteen, I had 295 00:16:40,676 --> 00:16:43,756 Speaker 1: a song called Only One that I wanted him to 296 00:16:43,796 --> 00:16:47,316 Speaker 1: play harmonica and didn't know him at all. But I 297 00:16:47,356 --> 00:16:50,996 Speaker 1: just was like, you know, I'm just gonna try stout 298 00:16:51,036 --> 00:16:54,636 Speaker 1: to a drummer friend of mine, Teddy, who was played 299 00:16:54,636 --> 00:16:57,996 Speaker 1: for him, and he hooked me up with a stylus 300 00:16:58,076 --> 00:17:00,116 Speaker 1: of his who happened to be from New Orleans and 301 00:17:00,156 --> 00:17:02,196 Speaker 1: it happened to be familiar with me, so she was 302 00:17:02,316 --> 00:17:04,356 Speaker 1: down to get him the song. If you can get 303 00:17:04,356 --> 00:17:06,516 Speaker 1: it to him, that's I mean, that's it's two things. 304 00:17:06,516 --> 00:17:08,156 Speaker 1: He's got to want to do it and you gotta 305 00:17:08,196 --> 00:17:09,876 Speaker 1: be able to get it to you know. But it's 306 00:17:09,916 --> 00:17:12,476 Speaker 1: not like you can sell him on the idea of 307 00:17:12,516 --> 00:17:15,276 Speaker 1: this being a good career move. Yeah, you know, it's 308 00:17:15,316 --> 00:17:18,916 Speaker 1: like he just gotta want to do yeah. Yeah, man, Stevie, 309 00:17:18,956 --> 00:17:20,596 Speaker 1: I'm telling you, if you just do this one, it's 310 00:17:20,636 --> 00:17:22,796 Speaker 1: gonna take you to the top. You know. It was 311 00:17:22,836 --> 00:17:25,156 Speaker 1: none of that. I feel like he heard some of 312 00:17:25,236 --> 00:17:28,916 Speaker 1: himself in it and was down and he cut harmonica 313 00:17:28,916 --> 00:17:31,316 Speaker 1: on it. That still hadn't met him in person. Then 314 00:17:31,316 --> 00:17:34,036 Speaker 1: we were on a plane and I didn't know he 315 00:17:34,076 --> 00:17:37,156 Speaker 1: was sitting behind me and I went to the restroom 316 00:17:37,276 --> 00:17:40,436 Speaker 1: and Stevies comes behind me like meaning to use the 317 00:17:40,476 --> 00:17:44,196 Speaker 1: restroom too, and I turned around like, Stevie, it's it's PJ. 318 00:17:44,316 --> 00:17:46,796 Speaker 1: You just did my song and he was like, oh, 319 00:17:46,836 --> 00:17:50,996 Speaker 1: I love that song. And we we connected then and 320 00:17:51,036 --> 00:17:53,516 Speaker 1: that was special, but it didn't really turn into a 321 00:17:53,596 --> 00:17:57,836 Speaker 1: full relationship until maybe three years ago. He invited me 322 00:17:57,916 --> 00:18:02,236 Speaker 1: to do toys for Todds his Christmas thing, and we 323 00:18:02,356 --> 00:18:06,076 Speaker 1: did a song together and we really started to build. 324 00:18:06,076 --> 00:18:09,356 Speaker 1: Then after my album Gumbo first began, he told me 325 00:18:09,436 --> 00:18:11,076 Speaker 1: love this song. He told me he wished that he 326 00:18:11,116 --> 00:18:13,596 Speaker 1: wrote that song, which is, you know, I don't need 327 00:18:13,636 --> 00:18:16,556 Speaker 1: any more compliments in life. That's it, you know, that's 328 00:18:16,596 --> 00:18:19,276 Speaker 1: it for me. And so now we have a bond 329 00:18:19,516 --> 00:18:22,116 Speaker 1: that is and I'm not over it. But he told me, 330 00:18:22,156 --> 00:18:24,396 Speaker 1: like you can call me like you don't have to, 331 00:18:24,596 --> 00:18:28,236 Speaker 1: you know, we're friends. I'm like, you're Stevie wonder though, 332 00:18:28,356 --> 00:18:30,756 Speaker 1: you know, it's like more than I ever dreamed. This 333 00:18:30,836 --> 00:18:33,236 Speaker 1: is that's the biggest that's the biggest thing I ever dreamed. 334 00:18:33,236 --> 00:18:36,396 Speaker 1: So it's amazing. Have you ever talked about songwriting with him? 335 00:18:36,836 --> 00:18:38,876 Speaker 1: We talk about it in a way we more talk 336 00:18:38,956 --> 00:18:42,836 Speaker 1: about life. But what's fascinating about Stevie to me is 337 00:18:43,356 --> 00:18:46,236 Speaker 1: his recall I don't have that, I can't I got. 338 00:18:46,436 --> 00:18:49,036 Speaker 1: If I don't record it in my phone and like 339 00:18:49,116 --> 00:18:52,756 Speaker 1: have a voice note, I'll forget something great. He'll recall 340 00:18:53,156 --> 00:18:55,916 Speaker 1: ten songs that he's never put out that he's got 341 00:18:55,996 --> 00:18:58,076 Speaker 1: and he'll just run through them. I think it just 342 00:18:58,116 --> 00:19:00,236 Speaker 1: speaks to his genius. You know that he can hold 343 00:19:00,276 --> 00:19:02,596 Speaker 1: all of this stuff full songs and me will play 344 00:19:02,636 --> 00:19:05,436 Speaker 1: them for me. But we never really talked about technique 345 00:19:05,516 --> 00:19:08,716 Speaker 1: or anything. I mean, I think he just appreciates what 346 00:19:08,756 --> 00:19:11,396 Speaker 1: I do, and he tells me. He's not bashed for 347 00:19:11,476 --> 00:19:13,996 Speaker 1: about telling me how much he supports me. I think 348 00:19:14,196 --> 00:19:16,356 Speaker 1: that in general. I don't think that's unique to me. 349 00:19:16,716 --> 00:19:20,436 Speaker 1: He's very encouraging to artists and writers that he believes in. 350 00:19:20,876 --> 00:19:23,716 Speaker 1: Now you almost you've done a lot of producing. I 351 00:19:23,716 --> 00:19:27,556 Speaker 1: think he wouldn't your first Grammy for India Aria, I think, yeah, 352 00:19:27,636 --> 00:19:31,556 Speaker 1: well not technically, so I had to I had to 353 00:19:31,556 --> 00:19:34,676 Speaker 1: come back. I thought the Grammy rules. I didn't get 354 00:19:34,716 --> 00:19:37,476 Speaker 1: a trophy for that album. I wrote and produced on 355 00:19:37,516 --> 00:19:39,996 Speaker 1: the album and it won Best R and B Album, 356 00:19:40,196 --> 00:19:42,676 Speaker 1: But I didn't produce a certain percentage of the album, 357 00:19:42,916 --> 00:19:44,676 Speaker 1: so I didn't get a trophy for it. But yeah, 358 00:19:44,756 --> 00:19:47,116 Speaker 1: I was a part of this Grammy Award winning album 359 00:19:47,116 --> 00:19:49,636 Speaker 1: my junior year in college. Yeah, wow, did you take 360 00:19:49,636 --> 00:19:51,996 Speaker 1: time off from college for that? No? I went right. 361 00:19:52,356 --> 00:19:54,036 Speaker 1: It made me want to quit. The only thing that 362 00:19:54,076 --> 00:19:56,076 Speaker 1: got me through is I had one semester left. I 363 00:19:56,116 --> 00:19:58,916 Speaker 1: finished more House in three and a half years, and 364 00:19:58,956 --> 00:20:01,836 Speaker 1: that was my junior year. The first semester and I 365 00:20:01,916 --> 00:20:04,276 Speaker 1: was like, oh, this is all I want to do, Like, 366 00:20:04,596 --> 00:20:06,556 Speaker 1: I got to get out of here. But I had 367 00:20:06,596 --> 00:20:09,516 Speaker 1: like one more semester, something like, let me just knocked 368 00:20:09,516 --> 00:20:12,716 Speaker 1: this out. That's the best summer job ever. Oh, for sure, 369 00:20:12,796 --> 00:20:15,796 Speaker 1: I was mowing one. You were winning Grammy, Man, it 370 00:20:15,916 --> 00:20:19,356 Speaker 1: was amazing. I moved off campus my second year and 371 00:20:19,636 --> 00:20:23,076 Speaker 1: met Indi re right there in the apartments we were 372 00:20:23,116 --> 00:20:25,636 Speaker 1: living in. Well, her brother was living there, and she 373 00:20:25,756 --> 00:20:27,876 Speaker 1: happened to be up there and heard me playing the piano, 374 00:20:28,316 --> 00:20:31,556 Speaker 1: and we started talking about Stevie Wonder and she hadn't 375 00:20:31,596 --> 00:20:34,676 Speaker 1: put out her first motown record yet, and she let 376 00:20:34,716 --> 00:20:36,916 Speaker 1: me hear that, and so when the other one came around, 377 00:20:36,996 --> 00:20:39,556 Speaker 1: we were friends by then, and I had this little 378 00:20:39,596 --> 00:20:41,916 Speaker 1: song and played it for and she loved it. And 379 00:20:42,276 --> 00:20:45,236 Speaker 1: the restless history and you'd never produced before that. I 380 00:20:45,236 --> 00:20:48,556 Speaker 1: had produced some gospel stuff, yeah, because my first placement 381 00:20:49,076 --> 00:20:52,796 Speaker 1: as a producer was when I was sixteen. Yeah, fifteen, 382 00:20:52,836 --> 00:20:55,596 Speaker 1: I did the song sixteen it came out, and so 383 00:20:55,636 --> 00:20:57,836 Speaker 1: I kind of was used to it a little bit, 384 00:20:57,876 --> 00:21:00,356 Speaker 1: but that, in my mind, that is the first thing 385 00:21:00,356 --> 00:21:03,396 Speaker 1: that I truly produced. But then after a couple of 386 00:21:03,396 --> 00:21:05,636 Speaker 1: your own albums, you were gonna you were gonna stop 387 00:21:05,636 --> 00:21:09,916 Speaker 1: doing solo stuff? Yeah? Why what was going on? Yeah? 388 00:21:09,956 --> 00:21:13,236 Speaker 1: Right before Gumbo, I was just Gumbo was going to 389 00:21:13,316 --> 00:21:16,156 Speaker 1: be the last thing I think for me. I had 390 00:21:16,196 --> 00:21:20,516 Speaker 1: been pushing independently for a long time, and you know, 391 00:21:20,956 --> 00:21:23,356 Speaker 1: it's an uphill battle. I mean, it can be, you know, 392 00:21:23,596 --> 00:21:25,756 Speaker 1: and I just felt like I didn't necessarily fit in. 393 00:21:25,836 --> 00:21:28,116 Speaker 1: I would give these songs, I could write songs for 394 00:21:28,156 --> 00:21:30,836 Speaker 1: other people, but when I did my presentation, it was 395 00:21:30,876 --> 00:21:33,236 Speaker 1: just kind of like the labels didn't get it. You know. 396 00:21:33,316 --> 00:21:35,636 Speaker 1: We went to every label at one time and couldn't 397 00:21:35,676 --> 00:21:38,796 Speaker 1: get signed, and I just felt like, all right, listen. 398 00:21:39,076 --> 00:21:41,156 Speaker 1: I was in my room five a few years by then, 399 00:21:41,276 --> 00:21:43,396 Speaker 1: and I'm like, you know, this is great. I mean, 400 00:21:43,436 --> 00:21:46,756 Speaker 1: I'm fine. You know, I was still producing, right, and 401 00:21:46,836 --> 00:21:49,676 Speaker 1: I think part of it was I just wasn't successful 402 00:21:49,716 --> 00:21:52,716 Speaker 1: at being myself or it just hadn't come together, you know. 403 00:21:52,756 --> 00:21:54,836 Speaker 1: So then I signed a major deal. I was with 404 00:21:54,916 --> 00:21:59,916 Speaker 1: Young Money, with Lil Wayne and Universal, and that was cool. 405 00:21:59,956 --> 00:22:02,956 Speaker 1: It was a learning experience. But then that didn't work out. 406 00:22:02,956 --> 00:22:05,116 Speaker 1: So I asked to get off the label and I 407 00:22:05,236 --> 00:22:07,596 Speaker 1: was India again, and I'm like, you know what, I'm 408 00:22:07,676 --> 00:22:10,676 Speaker 1: leaving La and I'm leaving all of this, like I 409 00:22:10,756 --> 00:22:13,836 Speaker 1: just you know, so Gumbo kind of was my I 410 00:22:13,916 --> 00:22:17,516 Speaker 1: was just disarmed, you know. I wasn't thinking about anything 411 00:22:17,836 --> 00:22:22,916 Speaker 1: business wise, radio, pr, none of that. I just was like, 412 00:22:23,196 --> 00:22:25,516 Speaker 1: I'm just gonna make what I want to make, which 413 00:22:25,556 --> 00:22:29,156 Speaker 1: I realized now that that's what was missing, just me 414 00:22:29,836 --> 00:22:32,716 Speaker 1: overthinking some things. Yeah, I was making good songs and 415 00:22:32,756 --> 00:22:36,796 Speaker 1: doing all of this, but I wasn't fully connecting because 416 00:22:36,836 --> 00:22:40,596 Speaker 1: I had those blocks, and I wasn't creating fully in 417 00:22:40,636 --> 00:22:43,196 Speaker 1: a free way, not since my very first album. It 418 00:22:43,316 --> 00:22:44,996 Speaker 1: just put me back where I was supposed to be, 419 00:22:45,076 --> 00:22:48,276 Speaker 1: I guess, because that's when a lot of the more 420 00:22:48,676 --> 00:22:52,236 Speaker 1: recent success started. Yeah, and you've got your own studio now, yeah, 421 00:22:52,236 --> 00:22:56,916 Speaker 1: I got on Yeah, yeah, Morn Records. Yeah. But you're 422 00:22:56,916 --> 00:22:59,436 Speaker 1: still producing for other people, and you're still producing and 423 00:22:59,516 --> 00:23:02,316 Speaker 1: we just snow A Legra shout out to snow A Legra. 424 00:23:02,476 --> 00:23:04,756 Speaker 1: She was just up at the Grammys for a song 425 00:23:04,876 --> 00:23:07,716 Speaker 1: that I helped write. Now I'm going to continue to 426 00:23:07,756 --> 00:23:12,436 Speaker 1: do that. I just love other voices, I love other expressions, 427 00:23:12,436 --> 00:23:15,876 Speaker 1: So I always want to lend my hand when when 428 00:23:15,876 --> 00:23:18,396 Speaker 1: I can add something. And you're going to restore Buddy 429 00:23:18,396 --> 00:23:21,756 Speaker 1: Boone's help. Yes, yes, yes, it was a happy mistake 430 00:23:21,836 --> 00:23:25,556 Speaker 1: that happened after Katrina. It was a house not far 431 00:23:25,676 --> 00:23:30,116 Speaker 1: from my parents' church, literally steps away, so the church 432 00:23:30,196 --> 00:23:33,276 Speaker 1: brought up most of the land after Katrina and happened 433 00:23:33,316 --> 00:23:35,876 Speaker 1: to buy this house not knowing. No, we should explain 434 00:23:35,916 --> 00:23:37,836 Speaker 1: who he is because yeah, oh yeah, yeah for sure, 435 00:23:38,116 --> 00:23:40,676 Speaker 1: because that's that's part of where my passion comes from. 436 00:23:40,716 --> 00:23:43,316 Speaker 1: Because I didn't know who he was growing up, unfortunately, 437 00:23:43,516 --> 00:23:46,596 Speaker 1: and we all should. Buddy Bolden, the legend has it 438 00:23:46,756 --> 00:23:49,996 Speaker 1: that he is the seed that planet jazz music. The 439 00:23:50,076 --> 00:23:52,476 Speaker 1: story is that he was playing his horn too loud 440 00:23:52,556 --> 00:23:55,516 Speaker 1: in the house, so his mom told him go outside. 441 00:23:55,516 --> 00:23:57,636 Speaker 1: He goes on the stoop and plays it. The legend 442 00:23:57,636 --> 00:24:00,236 Speaker 1: says you could hear him all the way like across town, 443 00:24:00,716 --> 00:24:03,396 Speaker 1: and so a friend of his heard him playing and 444 00:24:03,436 --> 00:24:06,636 Speaker 1: they formed the band that majority of the world says 445 00:24:06,876 --> 00:24:09,916 Speaker 1: is the first time they heard jazz music. He died 446 00:24:10,436 --> 00:24:13,636 Speaker 1: at a young age. He died mental illness. You know. 447 00:24:14,196 --> 00:24:17,996 Speaker 1: There's a theory that he had a vitamin deficiency, is 448 00:24:17,996 --> 00:24:21,396 Speaker 1: that right, which is very common apparently if he were poor, 449 00:24:21,676 --> 00:24:23,636 Speaker 1: and that it wasn't you know, because people assumed to 450 00:24:23,716 --> 00:24:25,876 Speaker 1: schizophrenia because I think he ended up an asylum, but 451 00:24:26,036 --> 00:24:28,076 Speaker 1: they may have actually been breakdown. It may have been 452 00:24:28,116 --> 00:24:31,676 Speaker 1: a nutritional Wow. Yeah, something so simple now right, YEA, 453 00:24:31,836 --> 00:24:35,516 Speaker 1: like seemed complex then. But I just think his story 454 00:24:35,596 --> 00:24:39,396 Speaker 1: is important. There's literally one picture of him that exists, 455 00:24:39,716 --> 00:24:42,836 Speaker 1: no recordings, and we're still talking about him one hundred 456 00:24:42,916 --> 00:24:46,756 Speaker 1: years later. So he did something, you know, King Oliver 457 00:24:46,796 --> 00:24:49,436 Speaker 1: playing this band different people, right, that's right, and that 458 00:24:49,516 --> 00:24:52,316 Speaker 1: these are the people who carried on his story. Um, 459 00:24:52,716 --> 00:24:56,276 Speaker 1: So we got this house which was actually low income 460 00:24:56,276 --> 00:24:59,316 Speaker 1: housing before Katrina wasn't nobody was making a big deal 461 00:24:59,356 --> 00:25:02,436 Speaker 1: about it, which is probably why my parents didn't know. Um. 462 00:25:02,516 --> 00:25:05,196 Speaker 1: So it's it's been sort of an uphill battle just 463 00:25:05,236 --> 00:25:07,636 Speaker 1: because it was new for me. I was just excited 464 00:25:07,676 --> 00:25:10,836 Speaker 1: about it, but never been in the nonprofit space, never 465 00:25:10,876 --> 00:25:13,996 Speaker 1: had to raise money for anything. But this vision man 466 00:25:14,156 --> 00:25:17,276 Speaker 1: is so important. It's the house that he actually lived in, 467 00:25:17,636 --> 00:25:19,996 Speaker 1: and then there's an identical house right next to it, 468 00:25:20,036 --> 00:25:22,716 Speaker 1: so I'm calling it the past house in the future house. 469 00:25:22,996 --> 00:25:25,756 Speaker 1: So I want his actual home. The left side of 470 00:25:25,796 --> 00:25:28,676 Speaker 1: it to be a small museum just the lineage of 471 00:25:28,716 --> 00:25:31,516 Speaker 1: New Orleans, which I think is not only jazz but 472 00:25:31,636 --> 00:25:35,956 Speaker 1: really American music. You know, our jazz didn't really turn 473 00:25:35,996 --> 00:25:39,236 Speaker 1: into contemporary jazz. It turned into R and B with 474 00:25:39,356 --> 00:25:42,356 Speaker 1: Fats and those guys, and I feel like Elvis was 475 00:25:42,436 --> 00:25:46,036 Speaker 1: chasing Fats, you know, and became rock and roll, you know. 476 00:25:46,276 --> 00:25:49,356 Speaker 1: So I just think that it's an important story to tell. 477 00:25:49,476 --> 00:25:51,436 Speaker 1: So we want to do the museum, and then the 478 00:25:51,516 --> 00:25:54,556 Speaker 1: right side where he actually lived, will be his house 479 00:25:54,756 --> 00:25:57,676 Speaker 1: as it was lived in. And then the right house 480 00:25:57,996 --> 00:26:00,316 Speaker 1: I want to make like an event center to continue 481 00:26:00,356 --> 00:26:04,276 Speaker 1: that innovation. I want to teach everything from except performance really, 482 00:26:04,276 --> 00:26:06,596 Speaker 1: because I think New Orleans has that cover it. But 483 00:26:06,636 --> 00:26:10,156 Speaker 1: I want to teach the things that maybe left him 484 00:26:10,196 --> 00:26:14,476 Speaker 1: to die broke, you know, teach publishing and teach songwriting, 485 00:26:14,476 --> 00:26:19,116 Speaker 1: and teach engineering and law. So I'm really excited about it. 486 00:26:19,116 --> 00:26:21,396 Speaker 1: It has taken much longer than I wanted it to, 487 00:26:21,876 --> 00:26:25,716 Speaker 1: but I'm still inspired and still passionate about the project 488 00:26:26,156 --> 00:26:29,396 Speaker 1: and can't wait to see it come to fruition Fully. 489 00:26:30,076 --> 00:26:32,036 Speaker 1: We'll be right back after a break with more from 490 00:26:32,036 --> 00:26:38,596 Speaker 1: PJ Martin and Bruce had them. We're back with the 491 00:26:38,596 --> 00:26:42,596 Speaker 1: rest of Bruce Hethlem's conversation with PJ Martin. I do 492 00:26:42,716 --> 00:26:45,356 Speaker 1: want to talk about this new album yea, Watch the Sun. Yeah, 493 00:26:45,356 --> 00:26:47,916 Speaker 1: of course, tell me about the recording of this album. 494 00:26:47,996 --> 00:26:50,716 Speaker 1: Tell me what you were thinking going into it. Yeah, 495 00:26:50,756 --> 00:26:53,796 Speaker 1: while I wasn't really planning on doing an album, I 496 00:26:53,876 --> 00:26:56,636 Speaker 1: just was coming off of a like crazy run. I mean, 497 00:26:56,676 --> 00:26:59,596 Speaker 1: I just went back to back to back with music 498 00:27:00,156 --> 00:27:02,636 Speaker 1: more than I ever had before. Actually, but it just 499 00:27:02,756 --> 00:27:05,156 Speaker 1: was rolling. So I was rolling with it and then 500 00:27:05,196 --> 00:27:07,476 Speaker 1: we got shut down. I was with my Room five 501 00:27:07,556 --> 00:27:10,596 Speaker 1: in South America. In real time, the show started to 502 00:27:10,636 --> 00:27:12,756 Speaker 1: get canceled. We had to fly back to the States 503 00:27:13,236 --> 00:27:16,396 Speaker 1: and when we got back. Initially I had voice notes 504 00:27:16,436 --> 00:27:19,876 Speaker 1: from like March twenty twenty. I was in this creative 505 00:27:19,996 --> 00:27:23,276 Speaker 1: like it was just coming faster than I could even 506 00:27:23,596 --> 00:27:27,236 Speaker 1: control it. And I got some music beds that actually 507 00:27:27,356 --> 00:27:30,596 Speaker 1: ended up on this album two years later. But my 508 00:27:30,796 --> 00:27:35,876 Speaker 1: laptop crashed like right after that, and I lost all 509 00:27:35,876 --> 00:27:38,196 Speaker 1: that stuff. All that was the voice not he couldn't 510 00:27:38,236 --> 00:27:40,156 Speaker 1: nobody could get it back. I got a lot of 511 00:27:40,196 --> 00:27:42,276 Speaker 1: my files back, a lot of my drums back, but 512 00:27:42,436 --> 00:27:44,956 Speaker 1: not those new songs that I was working on. It 513 00:27:45,036 --> 00:27:47,916 Speaker 1: was just not saved yet. It was pretty pretty always 514 00:27:47,956 --> 00:27:50,716 Speaker 1: back up for the musicians. Oh my god, please, yeah, 515 00:27:50,836 --> 00:27:53,236 Speaker 1: I know this too, Like this is what I did, 516 00:27:53,396 --> 00:27:56,116 Speaker 1: was it got bad and I probably could have recovered it. 517 00:27:56,836 --> 00:27:59,996 Speaker 1: I went further than I should have and got this 518 00:28:00,756 --> 00:28:03,716 Speaker 1: something offline to say that could save my files, and 519 00:28:03,716 --> 00:28:06,756 Speaker 1: it just my computer did something I've never seen before. 520 00:28:06,796 --> 00:28:09,676 Speaker 1: It was so bad. I was just desperate. What I 521 00:28:09,756 --> 00:28:13,756 Speaker 1: realized was I needed to stop, like to stop, you know, 522 00:28:13,836 --> 00:28:17,596 Speaker 1: and not do anything. It's okay, like I'm just you know, 523 00:28:17,676 --> 00:28:20,676 Speaker 1: I say, I'm a recovering workaholic. So I took that 524 00:28:20,756 --> 00:28:24,516 Speaker 1: time to really focus on family, focus on life, taught 525 00:28:24,516 --> 00:28:27,036 Speaker 1: my two youngest how to ride bikes. I mean just 526 00:28:27,036 --> 00:28:31,036 Speaker 1: just really, I was building bookcases and bikes and all 527 00:28:31,156 --> 00:28:33,836 Speaker 1: kinds of stuff, you know. So I had these music 528 00:28:33,876 --> 00:28:36,636 Speaker 1: beds because I wanted to start with just music, no lyrics. 529 00:28:36,636 --> 00:28:39,316 Speaker 1: And I usually don't do that. I go pretty quick 530 00:28:39,396 --> 00:28:42,996 Speaker 1: after I have music, I usually go and write it. 531 00:28:43,316 --> 00:28:46,436 Speaker 1: But I wanted to be so intentional this time around, 532 00:28:46,596 --> 00:28:50,236 Speaker 1: like more intentional than that. I've ever been, more honest 533 00:28:50,596 --> 00:28:53,716 Speaker 1: and open than I've ever been, and so I took 534 00:28:53,796 --> 00:28:56,196 Speaker 1: that time to just have the music beds. Then we 535 00:28:56,316 --> 00:28:59,556 Speaker 1: moved into Gumbo Studios and I started to build it 536 00:28:59,596 --> 00:29:02,756 Speaker 1: even more, still music no lyrics. And maybe about a 537 00:29:02,836 --> 00:29:06,276 Speaker 1: year after that, I told my engineer, Reggie, that we 538 00:29:06,316 --> 00:29:10,036 Speaker 1: should find a studio where we could lived there. So 539 00:29:10,436 --> 00:29:12,156 Speaker 1: you just built a studio and then you wanted to 540 00:29:12,236 --> 00:29:15,516 Speaker 1: use the studio else because you know, I don't know 541 00:29:15,516 --> 00:29:18,716 Speaker 1: if people realize, but when we were all shut down, 542 00:29:19,516 --> 00:29:22,116 Speaker 1: we lost all these gigs, but it was replaced with 543 00:29:22,196 --> 00:29:27,116 Speaker 1: live streams and like more interviews than ever really because 544 00:29:27,116 --> 00:29:29,996 Speaker 1: you were there, you know. So I feel like I 545 00:29:30,036 --> 00:29:33,756 Speaker 1: had to. I wasn't away enough, you know, Like I 546 00:29:33,836 --> 00:29:36,316 Speaker 1: needed and away from the away. So I was like, 547 00:29:36,356 --> 00:29:39,276 Speaker 1: I just need to go away. And we discovered studio 548 00:29:39,316 --> 00:29:44,196 Speaker 1: in the country in Buggaloosa, Louisiana, where Stevie did Secret 549 00:29:44,236 --> 00:29:47,836 Speaker 1: Life of Plants. There's a Frankie Beverly and May's album 550 00:29:47,916 --> 00:29:51,356 Speaker 1: that was made out there. Here, there's an unreleased Betty 551 00:29:51,436 --> 00:29:54,636 Speaker 1: Davis record that was recorded out there. But this amazing 552 00:29:54,676 --> 00:29:58,476 Speaker 1: studio that was built in the seventies, and there's a 553 00:29:58,476 --> 00:30:01,436 Speaker 1: house on the grounds that you can stay at. Me 554 00:30:01,556 --> 00:30:03,596 Speaker 1: and the band, and this was the first time we 555 00:30:03,596 --> 00:30:05,636 Speaker 1: were even starting to you know. I remember we had 556 00:30:05,676 --> 00:30:07,956 Speaker 1: to test to go out there. First time we were 557 00:30:07,996 --> 00:30:10,716 Speaker 1: around people without mat ask and so that was freeing 558 00:30:10,756 --> 00:30:14,636 Speaker 1: in itself. And this place was so magical. It just 559 00:30:14,916 --> 00:30:17,756 Speaker 1: made me want to write immediately, like that's all I 560 00:30:17,796 --> 00:30:20,436 Speaker 1: wanted to do. I threw myself into it, and this 561 00:30:20,516 --> 00:30:23,716 Speaker 1: is the first time I started to write some lyrics. 562 00:30:24,276 --> 00:30:27,476 Speaker 1: I feel like I had finally processed these things I 563 00:30:27,516 --> 00:30:30,796 Speaker 1: want to say, and we just started building. I had 564 00:30:30,836 --> 00:30:33,196 Speaker 1: the band, so that how it would go is I'd 565 00:30:33,276 --> 00:30:35,756 Speaker 1: wake up because I wake up pretty early every day, 566 00:30:36,196 --> 00:30:39,436 Speaker 1: and go in myself, go to piano right, come up 567 00:30:39,436 --> 00:30:41,436 Speaker 1: with some ideas and then I called the band in 568 00:30:41,556 --> 00:30:44,516 Speaker 1: to hit the parts that I wanted to hit, and 569 00:30:44,916 --> 00:30:48,276 Speaker 1: first week of us being there is majority of the 570 00:30:48,396 --> 00:30:53,116 Speaker 1: album as far as sonically, Yeah, a couple of the vocals. 571 00:30:53,116 --> 00:30:56,236 Speaker 1: I ended up cutting vocals. Later Reggie and I went again. 572 00:30:56,436 --> 00:30:59,716 Speaker 1: I mean we did three four trips to the country. 573 00:30:59,876 --> 00:31:02,996 Speaker 1: I didn't fully started singing, and to the second time 574 00:31:03,356 --> 00:31:06,516 Speaker 1: it just wasn't experienced. It felt magical and it felt 575 00:31:06,556 --> 00:31:10,436 Speaker 1: deeper than just records. At this point, it's like I 576 00:31:10,516 --> 00:31:13,836 Speaker 1: really was by being as honest and authentic as I 577 00:31:13,876 --> 00:31:16,556 Speaker 1: was trying to be. I think it's going to connect 578 00:31:16,556 --> 00:31:19,676 Speaker 1: to people. I've seen it that I've let people here now, 579 00:31:19,716 --> 00:31:21,716 Speaker 1: but I think it's going to connect in another way. 580 00:31:22,076 --> 00:31:25,116 Speaker 1: After you made as much music, if as I made, 581 00:31:25,316 --> 00:31:27,436 Speaker 1: It's almost like that was all that was left at 582 00:31:27,436 --> 00:31:31,116 Speaker 1: this point was for me to get, you know, just 583 00:31:31,196 --> 00:31:34,276 Speaker 1: give you more of myself because the type of songwriter 584 00:31:34,356 --> 00:31:37,356 Speaker 1: I am, there's always myself in it. But I also 585 00:31:37,556 --> 00:31:40,956 Speaker 1: in general bring other people's stories. I'm a people watch her, 586 00:31:41,116 --> 00:31:43,756 Speaker 1: you know, but this time was a lot more specific 587 00:31:43,836 --> 00:31:45,796 Speaker 1: to me. Can you play a little bit of a 588 00:31:45,796 --> 00:31:48,396 Speaker 1: song that came out of that first week? Yeah? Well 589 00:31:48,396 --> 00:31:51,236 Speaker 1: please don't walk away. I said this on the Piano album, 590 00:31:51,316 --> 00:31:54,476 Speaker 1: just as a passing thing, where when I before I 591 00:31:54,516 --> 00:31:56,876 Speaker 1: sang to my wife, I said that, you know, this 592 00:31:56,916 --> 00:32:00,916 Speaker 1: has been like the toughest either I said year or 593 00:32:00,956 --> 00:32:03,196 Speaker 1: you know, it's been a rough period for us. But 594 00:32:03,236 --> 00:32:06,316 Speaker 1: that was true. We had really gone through some challenges, 595 00:32:06,396 --> 00:32:09,676 Speaker 1: you know, been married thirteen years, that married really young. 596 00:32:09,876 --> 00:32:12,516 Speaker 1: So please don't walk Away was literally the first song 597 00:32:12,636 --> 00:32:21,796 Speaker 1: I think I wrote lyrics to, um um, I just 598 00:32:21,836 --> 00:32:31,596 Speaker 1: do the verse. It's never gone this far, it's never 599 00:32:31,636 --> 00:32:37,836 Speaker 1: been this bad, But I won't lady to raise the 600 00:32:38,076 --> 00:32:49,276 Speaker 1: memories of good times we've had. Oh and even with 601 00:32:49,476 --> 00:33:00,996 Speaker 1: everything that we've been going through, Oh, you never have 602 00:33:01,196 --> 00:33:14,716 Speaker 1: to ask. I still choose you. Oh girl, please don't 603 00:33:14,716 --> 00:33:29,956 Speaker 1: walk way from my love. Please don't oh wait, from 604 00:33:29,996 --> 00:33:40,436 Speaker 1: my love. Yeah. Yeah, that was the first one. Yeah, 605 00:33:40,676 --> 00:33:43,756 Speaker 1: I hope it did the tray it did. She didn't 606 00:33:43,796 --> 00:33:47,436 Speaker 1: walk away all as well. We're good now. Yeah. I 607 00:33:47,476 --> 00:33:50,796 Speaker 1: can't write another one, so I was fabulous, right. Yeah. 608 00:33:50,836 --> 00:33:53,956 Speaker 1: What's crazy is we were in a good space then, 609 00:33:54,076 --> 00:33:56,796 Speaker 1: like we had. It's almost like I have to process 610 00:33:56,876 --> 00:33:59,596 Speaker 1: it and go through it first, uh, in order to 611 00:33:59,676 --> 00:34:02,356 Speaker 1: talk about what I can't really talk about what's happening 612 00:34:02,356 --> 00:34:04,956 Speaker 1: while it's happening. Usually, Yeah, but a lot of the 613 00:34:04,956 --> 00:34:09,476 Speaker 1: album's very heartfelt, very vulnerable. I would say, yeah, very 614 00:34:09,556 --> 00:34:13,836 Speaker 1: much about breakups or the possibility of breakups. It's a 615 00:34:13,836 --> 00:34:16,316 Speaker 1: tough album. Sure when you sat down, you know, you 616 00:34:16,356 --> 00:34:19,636 Speaker 1: play that for your band and then you don't write music, 617 00:34:19,716 --> 00:34:22,796 Speaker 1: So how do you arrange it with them? Yeah? Well, thankfully, 618 00:34:22,916 --> 00:34:26,476 Speaker 1: I mean, well I do have you know, Berkeley graduates 619 00:34:26,476 --> 00:34:29,276 Speaker 1: with me and stuff. So but but thankfully all my 620 00:34:29,356 --> 00:34:32,196 Speaker 1: guys around me are also church cats the way I 621 00:34:32,236 --> 00:34:35,996 Speaker 1: grew up, So we communicate in a different way. It's 622 00:34:36,036 --> 00:34:39,636 Speaker 1: not through you know, sheet music, is through just talking. 623 00:34:39,876 --> 00:34:43,716 Speaker 1: You know. I can call out two or five or one, 624 00:34:43,916 --> 00:34:47,356 Speaker 1: you know, or four, so I know enough where we 625 00:34:47,396 --> 00:34:50,916 Speaker 1: can communicate musically. It's not because I didn't go through school. 626 00:34:50,916 --> 00:34:54,836 Speaker 1: It's not that I don't understand the movements of things. 627 00:34:54,876 --> 00:34:57,836 Speaker 1: We just kind of have come up with our own language. 628 00:34:57,836 --> 00:35:02,756 Speaker 1: I guess it's a shame they had to go to Berkeley. Really, yeah, 629 00:35:03,796 --> 00:35:06,716 Speaker 1: it takes them so long. So what's next for you? 630 00:35:07,116 --> 00:35:09,516 Speaker 1: I am going to get on the road though I 631 00:35:10,316 --> 00:35:12,716 Speaker 1: missed that so much. We just did a few shows 632 00:35:13,316 --> 00:35:17,996 Speaker 1: and I can't wait to play this new stuff live. 633 00:35:18,156 --> 00:35:20,316 Speaker 1: I mean, it's made for it. I thought of the 634 00:35:20,356 --> 00:35:24,356 Speaker 1: album in that way. The album just continues like my shows, 635 00:35:24,436 --> 00:35:26,276 Speaker 1: do you know. It's not really a lot of break 636 00:35:26,276 --> 00:35:28,316 Speaker 1: in there. They just flow from one to the other. 637 00:35:28,756 --> 00:35:31,876 Speaker 1: And I just can't wait to present that to everybody. 638 00:35:32,156 --> 00:35:35,836 Speaker 1: And really it's the community. I think it's me that church, 639 00:35:36,276 --> 00:35:39,476 Speaker 1: growing up in church and having that weekly community where 640 00:35:39,516 --> 00:35:43,636 Speaker 1: you share this experience. I just can't wait to share 641 00:35:43,796 --> 00:35:48,276 Speaker 1: this experience of this really honest music with my supporters. 642 00:35:48,316 --> 00:35:52,476 Speaker 1: So that's next. I'm scoring an animated film right now. Okay, 643 00:35:52,476 --> 00:35:56,076 Speaker 1: what's that like? It's fun man, well in my case 644 00:35:56,156 --> 00:35:59,996 Speaker 1: because the director is a fan of mine, Like, you know, 645 00:36:00,076 --> 00:36:02,916 Speaker 1: he really already digs what I do. I imagine it 646 00:36:02,956 --> 00:36:05,436 Speaker 1: could be frustrating when somebody is just you're just put 647 00:36:05,436 --> 00:36:08,156 Speaker 1: in a position to do it. But this guy wants 648 00:36:08,236 --> 00:36:12,796 Speaker 1: PJ song. So it's so cool because this story is 649 00:36:12,836 --> 00:36:16,356 Speaker 1: so weird that it allows me to go places that 650 00:36:16,396 --> 00:36:18,436 Speaker 1: I would never get to go in my own music. 651 00:36:18,476 --> 00:36:23,236 Speaker 1: So it's like PJ doing weird, different, cool stuff. It's 652 00:36:23,276 --> 00:36:27,036 Speaker 1: really exciting for me. I'm enjoying that process. So there's 653 00:36:27,116 --> 00:36:30,676 Speaker 1: that there's some TV shows that I'm scoring as well. 654 00:36:31,196 --> 00:36:33,916 Speaker 1: I like that side of it too, because my music 655 00:36:34,036 --> 00:36:36,436 Speaker 1: is so visual that I like when I have to 656 00:36:36,476 --> 00:36:42,036 Speaker 1: create two a visual it's pretty fun. So recovering workaholic. Yeah, 657 00:36:42,076 --> 00:36:44,636 Speaker 1: in my in my sense, you know, even like this 658 00:36:44,676 --> 00:36:47,116 Speaker 1: big tour, this is new for me, brand new for me. 659 00:36:47,476 --> 00:36:50,156 Speaker 1: Where in the summer will do two weeks on, two 660 00:36:50,156 --> 00:36:52,836 Speaker 1: weeks off, something I've never done in my life. But 661 00:36:52,916 --> 00:36:56,436 Speaker 1: I understand now that just as much as I plan 662 00:36:56,596 --> 00:36:59,316 Speaker 1: for these things, I have to actually plan for the 663 00:36:59,356 --> 00:37:02,476 Speaker 1: other stuff that's important to me. So we'll see how 664 00:37:02,516 --> 00:37:05,156 Speaker 1: that goes. But two weeks on, two weeks off is 665 00:37:05,516 --> 00:37:08,756 Speaker 1: a big start for this recovering work. Okay, let's see 666 00:37:08,756 --> 00:37:12,276 Speaker 1: how that works. We'll see. I'll check back in. Okay, 667 00:37:12,556 --> 00:37:14,476 Speaker 1: it's been fabulous and the album is fast. Thank thank 668 00:37:14,516 --> 00:37:16,196 Speaker 1: you so much for coming in. Thank you for having 669 00:37:16,836 --> 00:37:23,916 Speaker 1: so beautiful and Pleasure's great album's retreat. Thanks to PJ. 670 00:37:23,996 --> 00:37:26,396 Speaker 1: Morton for taking us through his incredible career as a 671 00:37:26,436 --> 00:37:29,636 Speaker 1: solo musician and a sideline. We can hear all of 672 00:37:29,636 --> 00:37:32,276 Speaker 1: our favorite PREJ Morton songs on a playlist at Broken 673 00:37:32,316 --> 00:37:35,436 Speaker 1: record podcast dot com. Be sure to subscribe to our 674 00:37:35,436 --> 00:37:38,876 Speaker 1: YouTube channel at YouTube dot com slash broken Record Podcast, 675 00:37:38,996 --> 00:37:42,156 Speaker 1: where you can find all our new episodes. You can 676 00:37:42,156 --> 00:37:45,156 Speaker 1: follow us on Twitter at broken Record. Broken Record is 677 00:37:45,156 --> 00:37:49,396 Speaker 1: produced Helpful Lea Rose, Jason Gambrel, Beentaliday, Eric Sandler, and 678 00:37:49,516 --> 00:37:53,556 Speaker 1: Jennifer Sanchez for engineering help from Nick chaf Our. Executive 679 00:37:53,556 --> 00:37:57,316 Speaker 1: producer is Mia Lobell. Broken Record is a production of 680 00:37:57,396 --> 00:38:00,476 Speaker 1: Pushkin Industries. If you like this show and others from Pushkin, 681 00:38:00,636 --> 00:38:04,556 Speaker 1: consider subscribing to Pushkin Plus. Pushkin Plus is a podcast 682 00:38:04,596 --> 00:38:08,516 Speaker 1: subscription that offers bonus content an uninterrupted ad free listening 683 00:38:08,636 --> 00:38:11,676 Speaker 1: for four ninety nine a month. Look for Pushkin Plus 684 00:38:11,676 --> 00:38:14,996 Speaker 1: on Apple Podcasts subscriptions, and if you'd like the show, 685 00:38:15,156 --> 00:38:17,516 Speaker 1: please remember to share, rate, and review us on your 686 00:38:17,516 --> 00:38:20,756 Speaker 1: podcast app or the music Expect any beats. I'm justin 687 00:38:20,836 --> 00:38:21,196 Speaker 1: hedgment