Speaker 1: Thoughts are basically just like fragments of mental formations that
Speaker 1: are trying to give us material so that we don't
Speaker 1: run out of script. And like the sitcom of our life,
Speaker 1: it doesn't mean that the writing is good. It just
Speaker 1: wants us to have lines.
Speaker 2: Welcome to the one you feed throughout time. Great thinkers
Speaker 2: have recognized the importance of the thoughts we have, quotes
Speaker 2: like garbage in, garbage out, or you are what you think,
Speaker 2: ring true. And yet for many of us, our thoughts
Speaker 2: don't strengthen or empower us. We tend toward negativity, self pity, jealousy,
Speaker 2: or fear. We see what we don't have instead of
Speaker 2: what we do. We think things that hold us back
Speaker 2: and dampen our spirit. But it's not just about thinking.
Speaker 2: Our actions matter. It takes conscious, consistent and creative effort
Speaker 2: to make a life worth living. This podcast is about
Speaker 2: how other people keep themselves moving in the right place direction,
Speaker 2: how they feed their good wealth. Thanks for joining us.
Speaker 2: Back on the show today is Corey Allen, an author,
Speaker 2: podcast host, musician, composer, and audio mastering engineer. On his
Speaker 2: podcast The Astral Hustle, he speaks with experts and mindfulness
Speaker 2: neuroscience and philosophy, and today Corey and Eric discuss his
Speaker 2: new book, Brave New You, A Roadmap to Believing that
Speaker 2: More Is Possible.
Speaker 3: Hey, Corey, welcome to the show, or welcome back to
Speaker 3: the show. I suppose I should be saying, Eric.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for having me. Man, it's really
Speaker 1: awesome to be back, and I'm grateful to be back
Speaker 1: here with you in this moment of time again. Yeah.
Speaker 3: I don't know how many times you've been on at
Speaker 3: this point, maybe three, I'm not sure. But our listeners,
Speaker 3: given your voice, will be happy to hear you again.
Speaker 1: I hope, so, I hope so. Yeah, it'll be exactly
Speaker 1: what they need right before bedtime exactly.
Speaker 3: I occasionally get that, like I listened to your podcast
Speaker 3: to go to sleep, and I'm like, well, I think
Speaker 3: I'm going to take that as a company. Yeah, but
Speaker 3: I suppose I could read that differently if I wanted to.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, it's like thank you, I guess. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 3: You have a new book called Brave New You, A
Speaker 3: Roadmap to Believing that Moore Is Possible. And I have
Speaker 3: a first question I have to ask you before we
Speaker 3: even get to the wolf parable, which is there is
Speaker 3: a song by an Austin songwriter and performer by the
Speaker 3: name of Jimmy Dale Gilmore called Braver Newer World. And
Speaker 3: I was curious whether you know that song, given that
Speaker 3: you are in Austin and it's close to the title
Speaker 3: of your book.
Speaker 1: I know Jimmy Dale Gilmore and also anyone that's unfamiliar
Speaker 1: with who he is on a musical front. He was
Speaker 1: smoky in The Big Lebowski. The dude steps over the
Speaker 1: line with the long gray hair. Oh I didn't know that.
Speaker 1: Oh really, Okay, have you seen Yeah, it's been a
Speaker 1: long time. Yeah, yeah, So Jimmie Gilmore was smoky and
Speaker 1: he really loves sort of you bring that up to him.
Speaker 1: I think I've seen it happen in person when people
Speaker 1: w accost him in person and go man, you smokey,
Speaker 1: Oh my god, and he's like, yeah, I'm also have
Speaker 1: a legacy musical career as well that you can reference
Speaker 1: right right, But no, I didn't base it off of that,
Speaker 1: but I would be proud to be side by side
Speaker 1: him in the lexicon.
Speaker 3: That record of his Braver and Newer World is. I
Speaker 3: think it's head and shoulders above anything else he's done.
Speaker 1: It's so good.
Speaker 3: But he also has a song that I love called
Speaker 3: my Mind's Got a Mind of its Own, which is
Speaker 3: such a great title for any of us who wrestle
Speaker 3: with say motivational complexity, meaning we're not sure what we want.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's that's gonna be the name of
Speaker 1: my next book.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a great it's a great song too. Now
Speaker 3: we'll start like we always do, with the parable. There's
Speaker 3: a grandparent talking with a grandchild and they say, in life,
Speaker 3: there are two wolves inside of us that are always
Speaker 3: at battle. One it's a good wolf, which represents things
Speaker 3: like kindness and bravery and love, and the other is
Speaker 3: a bad wolf, which represents things like greed and hatred
Speaker 3: and fear. And the grandchild stops. They think about it
Speaker 3: for a second. They look up at their grandparent and
Speaker 3: they say, well, which one wins? And the grandparent says,
Speaker 3: the one you feed. So I'd like to start off
Speaker 3: by asking you what that parable means to you in
Speaker 3: your life and in the work.
Speaker 1: That you do. Yeah, I think that you know. The
Speaker 1: more that I continue to watch my mind pay attention
Speaker 1: to what's arising internally in any moment, I noticed that,
Speaker 1: like all of the negatives off. The dark Wolf, as
Speaker 1: you would say in the parable, really seems to be
Speaker 1: just collections of memories of negative moments of the past
Speaker 1: trying to influence how I'm feeling in the present. And
Speaker 1: it's not really who I am. It's what I've been
Speaker 1: through and some of the things that have impacted me
Speaker 1: over the years that are still stuck that I'm still
Speaker 1: attached to. And if I am present with what I'm thinking,
Speaker 1: the good Wolf is who I actually am today. And
Speaker 1: I think that making that distinction, whenever the mind in
Speaker 1: the present tries to convince you give you some negative thought,
Speaker 1: a negative image of yourself, or a situation, I remember that, oh,
Speaker 1: this isn't me. This is what I've experienced. It's areas
Speaker 1: where I'm still in pain. It's areas where I'm still clinging.
Speaker 1: It's areas where I'm still scared or have anger or something,
Speaker 1: and it's trying to come in here to the present
Speaker 1: and influence me now. But if I listen to this
Speaker 1: positive voice, I can see with clarity that who I
Speaker 1: truly am, my real expression, is this person that I've
Speaker 1: grown into, And by keeping that framework in mind, it
Speaker 1: allows me whenever those negative voices do arise in the
Speaker 1: mind to notice them for what they are, and then
Speaker 1: use that present moment of space to mindfully and intentionally
Speaker 1: choose to listen to the positive voice or feed the
Speaker 1: good wolf.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I love that listener As you're listening, what resonated
Speaker 3: with you in that? I think a lot of us
Speaker 3: have some ideas of things that we can do to
Speaker 3: feed our good wolf, And here's a good tip to
Speaker 3: make it more likely that you do it. It can
Speaker 3: be really helpful to reflect right before you do that
Speaker 3: thing on why you want to do it. Our brains
Speaker 3: are always making a calculation of what neuroscientists would call
Speaker 3: reward value, basically, is this thing worth doing? And so
Speaker 3: when you're getting ready to do this thing that you
Speaker 3: want to do to feed your good wolf, reflecting on
Speaker 3: why actually helps to make the reward value on that
Speaker 3: high and makes it more likely that you're going to
Speaker 3: do that. For example, if what you're trying to do
Speaker 3: is exercise, right before you're getting ready to exercise, it
Speaker 3: can be useful to remind yourself of why, For example,
Speaker 3: I want to exercise because it makes my mental and
Speaker 3: emotional health better today. If you'd like a step by
Speaker 3: step guide for how you can easily build new habits
Speaker 3: that feed your good Wolf. Go to Goodwolf dot me,
Speaker 3: slash change and join the free masterclass.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I love that idea.
Speaker 3: I'm curious you say, that's this collection of memories of
Speaker 3: what you've been through. To what extent do you think
Speaker 3: any of that is conscious? Or to what extent are
Speaker 3: you conscious of it? Or to what extent is it
Speaker 3: sort of a habitual response pattern?
Speaker 1: Are you conscious of what the actual material itself or
Speaker 1: the reactions it causes?
Speaker 3: Yeah, the material itself, Yeah, I.
Speaker 1: Think it depends. I think it depends on the person.
Speaker 1: It's like, how much work have you done to be
Speaker 1: aware of the mental formations that are flowing through your mind?
Speaker 1: You know? And to make that a little bit more
Speaker 1: less esoteric, I suppose for someone who is into meditation.
Speaker 1: You know, if you study your inner life, you will
Speaker 1: notice or if you stop at any point, you'll notice that,
Speaker 1: you know, you have your conscious awareness. And if you
Speaker 1: pay attention a little bit and just notice rather than
Speaker 1: try and you know, just react to whatever's flowing through
Speaker 1: your mind, you'll see, oh, there's a thought, I'm thinking
Speaker 1: this now, and you just label and note whatever is
Speaker 1: rising and you can start to notice like, oh, there's
Speaker 1: a positive thought, there's a negative thought, there's this, there's that.
Speaker 1: But a lot of people don't do that. In fact,
Speaker 1: most people don't do that. Most people have that operating
Speaker 1: kind of in the back of their mind and they're
Speaker 1: on an autopilot. They're living in front of that process,
Speaker 1: reacting to the thoughts and impulses that are coming up
Speaker 1: to them in the moment. So that's why their life,
Speaker 1: they feel like they don't have a lot of control
Speaker 1: in their life, or what generally ends up happening is
Speaker 1: they do something called post event processing, where they'll be
Speaker 1: in a situation they'll react in a negative way that
Speaker 1: they didn't seem to have any control over in the
Speaker 1: moment because they were almost in a fairal sort of
Speaker 1: automatic state. And then later they'll look back and say, God,
Speaker 1: I wish I hadn't said that to Eric. I didn't
Speaker 1: want to say that, Like it just came out of me.
Speaker 1: It just happened, right. So that's why most people feel
Speaker 1: like they're kind of living in this pinball machine type
Speaker 1: of life and they don't really have a firm control
Speaker 1: and ability to be intentional. So if someone doesn't look inward,
Speaker 1: then that ecosystem of negative imprintations from their experience does
Speaker 1: seem rather mystifying, and therefore, to your question, it's more
Speaker 1: like they don't really know where that stuff's coming from.
Speaker 1: It just seems to be happening to them, and maybe
Speaker 1: they'll recognize the outcomes of that or the emotions that
Speaker 1: go along that, but they won't be particularly concious of
Speaker 1: the material itself. However, if someone spends time meditating or
Speaker 1: simply paying attention to their thoughts, noting their thoughts and
Speaker 1: their self awareness increases to where they become not only
Speaker 1: aware of what they're experiencing and the world, but also
Speaker 1: what's happening inside of them that is creating this kind
Speaker 1: of consciousness conversation of feedback with their reality of what
Speaker 1: they're thinking and how that translates to their actions, how
Speaker 1: people are responding to them, and so forth. Once you
Speaker 1: become aware of that, then those things that you were
Speaker 1: talking about, I think one does become more conscious of them,
Speaker 1: and it can become a really fascinating self healing, self teaching,
Speaker 1: self discovery tool because in the moment, rather than simply
Speaker 1: for example, like having an emotional response, rather than simply
Speaker 1: reacting to it. You can get curious about it, you
Speaker 1: can notice it, and then you can look beyond just
Speaker 1: the energy of the emotions, like the in tensity in
Speaker 1: the body, and you can think and explore, like, well,
Speaker 1: why am I feeling that way? Like, for example, if
Speaker 1: you're in a conversation with a partner and you notice
Speaker 1: it every time that talking about your finances comes up,
Speaker 1: you start feeling anxious and weird and like defensive and
Speaker 1: shut down. A lot of people would feel that and
Speaker 1: then just shut it down, move on, disengage in the conversation,
Speaker 1: or come up with a way to distract it or
Speaker 1: move the conversation of something else. But if you are
Speaker 1: developing a bit of skill that looking inward and being
Speaker 1: aware of your thoughts and being able to look down
Speaker 1: into yourself in that moment, you might notice that defensive feeling.
Speaker 1: You notice the body tightening, the breath shortening, you notice
Speaker 1: your adrenaline releasing, you feel yourself filling with tension. Then
Speaker 1: you go, hmm, okay, I'm having this feeling and I'm
Speaker 1: noticing this arising. Now let's start labeling and noting kind
Speaker 1: of what I'm feeling. Okay, there's tension there. I feel tight,
Speaker 1: I feel shut down. That voice doesn't feel is clear,
Speaker 1: don't feel like I can really find my words. Now,
Speaker 1: let's look a little bit deeper, you know, and then
Speaker 1: you might find hmm, well, I'm actually feeling this way
Speaker 1: because I feel like I'm the one contributing all of
Speaker 1: the finances to the situation in our household, and this
Speaker 1: other person isn't contributing as much, and so it's making
Speaker 1: me frustrated. But I don't want to express that frustration
Speaker 1: because they don't want to make that person feel like
Speaker 1: they're not valuable. Or you know, there's a million scenarios,
Speaker 1: or you could say, oh, my parents, you know, had
Speaker 1: this crazy relationship with money, and so you can, you know,
Speaker 1: kind of look inward and explore and become more deeply
Speaker 1: aware of some of those negative impresentations from the past.
Speaker 3: So let's stay with that example for a second. Let's
Speaker 3: say you find yourself in that situation and you're thinking
Speaker 3: to yourself, I feel like my partner doesn't contribute enough
Speaker 3: to the finances, and I'm feeling frustrated, and thus I'm
Speaker 3: having this emotional reaction. What happens next. Let's say I
Speaker 3: figure that out, Then what's the next step in the process.
Speaker 3: I'm asking you about something kind of nebulous and asking
Speaker 3: you to make it concrete. But I think a lot
Speaker 3: of people are going to relate with what you just
Speaker 3: said some version of it, which is like, I look inside,
Speaker 3: I see what the thought is. The thought appears to
Speaker 3: have some degree of reality, right A, it's real because
Speaker 3: I'm having it, but it may not be true meaning
Speaker 3: is your partner. But you might look at that and
Speaker 3: be like, well, very clearly, we have a seven thousand
Speaker 3: dollars monthly budget and I put six thousand of it
Speaker 3: in right, So then you'd be like, Okay, well, indeed
Speaker 3: this is a true thing, and it's a negative thought
Speaker 3: in a way, or it's at least a thought that
Speaker 3: is spurring negative emotions. Then what's the next.
Speaker 1: Steph Yeah, So in that situation, it would be communication.
Speaker 1: It's recognizing that you're feeling that certain way, that you're
Speaker 1: having that thought or that projection about reality. You know,
Speaker 1: even saying reality makes it sound complicated, just about you know,
Speaker 1: that moment and the conversation, and then bringing it up
Speaker 1: with a peaceful, you know, mindful, thoughtful and spacious form
Speaker 1: of conversation where I would script this like this, I
Speaker 1: would say, I want to talk to you about something
Speaker 1: that I'm feeling. I value you so much in every
Speaker 1: way possible in our relationship, but something that is starting
Speaker 1: to bother me. I noticed. The frustration is I feel
Speaker 1: like I'm contributing more. And you could say, I'm okay
Speaker 1: with that, but it is making me feel a little
Speaker 1: bit frustrated. So maybe can we find a way to
Speaker 1: find some balance and this or talk talk about that
Speaker 1: a bit more, ask them how they feel about that,
Speaker 1: you know, just sort of opening that communication without any accusation,
Speaker 1: making sure to reinforce that you care about them so
Speaker 1: that they feel safe in that moment. And I think,
Speaker 1: you know, that's a healthy way to proceed. And what's
Speaker 1: amazing is that in that situation, there's a couple of
Speaker 1: things that come up. One is that you might be
Speaker 1: able to find a really beautiful moment of closening because
Speaker 1: a lot of people fear that if you have a
Speaker 1: conversation like that or you say that, and like I said,
Speaker 1: you know, in the way that I frame that, there
Speaker 1: is no accusation. You can say everything's fine, we can
Speaker 1: keep things the way they are I just want to
Speaker 1: share this emotion that's arising. People fear that that's going
Speaker 1: to turn into something explosive or whatever, and so they
Speaker 1: don't have those conversations. But having those conversations which are vulnerable.
Speaker 1: That's ultimately what we're talking about here, is a person
Speaker 1: that has a deep feeling that they're scared to share,
Speaker 1: but they go, you know, if I'm going to be
Speaker 1: in a relationship with this person, I'm going to lovingly
Speaker 1: and mindfully and clearly express how I'm feeling. Because real
Speaker 1: vulnerability is not what you see on social media. It's
Speaker 1: not someone fake crying into the real and talking about something.
Speaker 1: It's about saying something you are actually scared to say.
Speaker 1: I mean, that's you know, that's the reality of it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: something that you don't want to say, much less share online.
Speaker 1: So you don't want to say this thing, but going,
Speaker 1: you know what, let's even pressure test the situation, letting
Speaker 1: me say it, see if it received and if I'm held,
Speaker 1: and if you do, then it can bring you closer together,
Speaker 1: you know, and it can be a beautiful thing. I
Speaker 1: think that since we're on your podcast and like the
Speaker 1: world in which I think that your listeners generally in habit.
Speaker 1: One thing that I have been asked a lot in
Speaker 1: this very area is people, you know, we focus on
Speaker 1: and we're taught to let go of tension, to let
Speaker 1: go of anger, to release those emotions that are unskillful,
Speaker 1: that you know, breed any of the thing that could
Speaker 1: be harmful to others. So what happens a lot in
Speaker 1: relationships or in partnerships is that a person will have
Speaker 1: another partner who isn't doing the same type of work
Speaker 1: that they are. They may not be interested in, you know,
Speaker 1: their inner lives or some type of self development, which
Speaker 1: is fine of course for them, but they'll be doing
Speaker 1: the thing this other person who is working in this
Speaker 1: mindful work a lot feels like they're the one who
Speaker 1: is always releasing the tension. They're the one who's always like, okay,
Speaker 1: well that's an to me, but I'm just gonna recognize it.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna allow it, I'm gonna let it go. It's fine.
Speaker 1: You know, we're both just doing our thing. And while
Speaker 1: that's good to not hold on to the tension, what
Speaker 1: happens over time, of course, is that turns into resentment,
Speaker 1: and so a lot of people will go, hey, I've
Speaker 1: been releasing tension left and right over here, but I'm
Speaker 1: starting to feel a lot of resentments that I can't release,
Speaker 1: and if I do release it, then I feel like
Speaker 1: I'm not, you know, sticking up for myself. I feel
Speaker 1: like a doormat. And it's amazing how many people I've
Speaker 1: heard that from. Because I'm doing the right thing, Why
Speaker 1: is this getting worse? Yeah?
Speaker 3: I mean, that's certainly a challenge I face in an
Speaker 3: ongoing sort of way, which is recognizing that a lot
Speaker 3: of times the reaction I'm having has a lot to
Speaker 3: do with what's going on inside of me and wanting
Speaker 3: to have time to process that before I respond externally,
Speaker 3: which is generally good. And what often happens for me
Speaker 3: is that the emotional energy dies, and so then there's
Speaker 3: no energy to say the thing that I probably should
Speaker 3: have said. Now, some of the time, that's the correct thing, right,
Speaker 3: I am like, Oh, actually, I was just grumpy because
Speaker 3: I hadn't had breakfast yet and I don't care, you know.
Speaker 3: And then there are other times where it's like the
Speaker 3: emotional energy dies. I'm like, oh, no big deal, But
Speaker 3: then it happens again. I'm like, oh wait a second,
Speaker 3: it kind of is starting to be a big deal,
Speaker 3: and I think I've gotten a lot better at it.
Speaker 3: But that is that danger, and I think it's a
Speaker 3: danger of anybody who's sort of in the psychology or
Speaker 3: you know, spiritual teaching world where we're sort of told
Speaker 3: to watch out for these negative energies. A follow on
Speaker 3: question of that would be, there's a theory that says
Speaker 3: that emotions are information and that you know, thus we
Speaker 3: should always listen to them, and I find that to
Speaker 3: be true and then sometimes not true. How do you
Speaker 3: tweeze that apart? Yeah, you know, how do you know
Speaker 3: when you're having an emotional reaction that's because of something
Speaker 3: real and that needs dealt with, or you're having an
Speaker 3: emotional reaction that is very habituated and has nothing to
Speaker 3: do with the current situation, or is obviously it's easy
Speaker 3: to tell if you're starving and you're like, okay, I
Speaker 3: can throw that one off. But it's far more nuanced
Speaker 3: in the middle between those two extremes.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, In first, I think it would be useful
Speaker 1: for us to just quickly give the solution for the
Speaker 1: scenario that I was just painting there real quickly as
Speaker 1: far as feeling like a doormat, you know, and being
Speaker 1: the one that's always releasing. To finish that thread, it
Speaker 1: would be to recognize the emotional energy that you're releasing,
Speaker 1: what is that connected to, and then communicating about that
Speaker 1: issue with your partner in a non emotional way. So
Speaker 1: it's like I'm always mad because I'm always the one
Speaker 1: that does the dishes and they never do it and
Speaker 1: they leave a mess everywhere. But we're going to release
Speaker 1: the energy. I'm just going to keep doing it and
Speaker 1: then people get in that cycle forever. But the move
Speaker 1: is to go, I'm going to let go of the
Speaker 1: frustration from that. Then I'm going to have a wholesome
Speaker 1: conversation of like, hey, we need to have a talk
Speaker 1: about this real quick, as opposed to have that energy
Speaker 1: and going, well, are I'm going to talk about this
Speaker 1: real quick, gonna you know, I'm gonna bring your neck.
Speaker 1: So that's the value of the letting go of the
Speaker 1: emotional energy. But you have to do the second part,
Speaker 1: which is the communicating about the issue that's arising.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you've come a long way because your first book
Speaker 3: I think was titled Babe, I Need You to Bring
Speaker 3: Home the Bacon. Yeah, so you know, you've really grown.
Speaker 3: I just I'm happy to see that in your work.
Speaker 1: Thanks. Yeah, that was a huge that was a huge
Speaker 1: bestseller in the in cell world. I loved it.
Speaker 3: Yeah on certain reddit Yeah really well dark reddit forums
Speaker 3: are yeah blown up with it. No.
Speaker 1: So yeah, you're note about you know, habituated emotional reaction
Speaker 1: versus kind of certifiable ones. To me, I would look
Speaker 1: for context, you know, like you said, if you're feeling
Speaker 1: this feeling that's not connected to anything, that you're just
Speaker 1: irritated or generally stressed in a sort of global way,
Speaker 1: then the world is going to seem more irritating and
Speaker 1: you're gonna have that feeling towards everything. You know. It's
Speaker 1: like your cute little puppy is, you know, making your
Speaker 1: heart melt. But in this situation where you're overscheduled and
Speaker 1: underslept and overstressed, you're like, shut up, leave me alone.
Speaker 1: It's like you would never say that to your puppy otherwise.
Speaker 1: But it has nothing to do with them. It's to
Speaker 1: do with you, you know. But if it's a specific
Speaker 1: thing that is arising, you know that has happened or
Speaker 1: keeps happening, and you notice it and can actually identify
Speaker 1: what that thing is or it's a similar context than
Speaker 1: that's something to look into.
Speaker 3: You talk a lot in this book about challenging our thoughts,
Speaker 3: and something you say is that, you know, one of
Speaker 3: the tough things about challenging your thoughts is how convincing
Speaker 3: they can be. So that's absolutely true. I almost the
Speaker 3: more convinced I am of a thought, the more I've
Speaker 3: sort of learned to doubt it smart, like just to
Speaker 3: at least go like, if I feel this strongly about it,
Speaker 3: I might need to investigate that perhaps there's something going
Speaker 3: on here. But again, that feeling of certainty, they seem
Speaker 3: so real. What are some effective strategies for starting to
Speaker 3: challenge our thoughts or starting to be able to tell
Speaker 3: what a the phrasing I like, is a helpful or
Speaker 3: unhelpful thought.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that what I would do is start
Speaker 1: looking at thoughts as just information, something that's disconnected from us.
Speaker 1: We have this habit of identifying our thoughts with who
Speaker 1: we are and what we are, and instead of doing that,
Speaker 1: just really distancing yourself from them a little bit and
Speaker 1: seeing them as almost just like a visitor, you know,
Speaker 1: in the world and in your mind. And thinking about like, oh,
Speaker 1: they're coming from somewhere else. They're not me, right, They're
Speaker 1: just something that's passing through for a moment. And I
Speaker 1: think a fun experiment is to do that with as
Speaker 1: you were pointing, to do that with all thoughts that
Speaker 1: come through your mind, not just the ones that you
Speaker 1: want to release or disengage. I like Antonio Dimasio's description
Speaker 1: of them as a neuroscientists. He says, they're basically like
Speaker 1: notes of what's just happened. It's like the mind is
Speaker 1: just kind of like noting what's just happened often, or
Speaker 1: it's throwing up suggestions of what you could do next.
Speaker 1: Thoughts are basically just like fragments of mental formations that
Speaker 1: are trying to give us material so that we don't
Speaker 1: run out of script. And like the sit of our life,
Speaker 1: it doesn't mean that the writing is good. It just
Speaker 1: wants us to have lines, you know, to be able
Speaker 1: to say if we want. Now, what makes a good
Speaker 1: actor is how you choose which lines and how to
Speaker 1: say them, how to deliver them, And that's kind of
Speaker 1: the same story of life, you know. So I think
Speaker 1: just really zooming out and taking a step back from
Speaker 1: all of the thoughts you have allows you to see
Speaker 1: them under the context of them just being this passing
Speaker 1: information which really doesn't have anything to do with you
Speaker 1: or your identity, and looking at them as more of
Speaker 1: like colors on you know, whatever you're painting on a
Speaker 1: palette that you could choose from the paint with as
Speaker 1: opposed to these deeply significant identifying structures.
Speaker 3: Isn't there some degree of a thought being more or
Speaker 3: less accurate? I mean, I get what you're saying that,
Speaker 3: like we should just treat them as things that have
Speaker 3: appeared versus being completely identified with them, right, I mean,
Speaker 3: I think that's the first and biggest fruit of meditation,
Speaker 3: which most people see as a problem, is the realization
Speaker 3: that like, there's nothing you're gonna do that's gonna stop
Speaker 3: these things from coming, and you have no idea what's
Speaker 3: coming next, and like it just happens. It's just happening. Right,
Speaker 3: So in that regard, I agree with you one hundred percent, Like, Okay,
Speaker 3: let's treat them all as something that's appearing to us
Speaker 3: versus something we've made appear or something that is.
Speaker 1: Part of us.
Speaker 3: And yet there is some manner I think of which
Speaker 3: certain thoughts are more accurate than.
Speaker 1: Other thoughts, right, well, sure, yeah.
Speaker 3: So let's say I get a little bit of distance,
Speaker 3: so I'm able to say, okay, well these thoughts aren't me.
Speaker 3: Then I still have some evaluative process to do, right,
Speaker 3: to say, like, well, that thought's actually true or somewhat true,
Speaker 3: or approximates the truth, or this thought is crazy. Unfortunately,
Speaker 3: most of them are somewhere in between those two, between
Speaker 3: a simple fact that microphone is black and that wall
Speaker 3: over there is covered with flying locusts when indeed it's not.
Speaker 3: But in between all that, right is really or it
Speaker 3: gets tricky.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean very far in between all that. But yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean I think you know, Eric is like I've
Speaker 1: been really struggling with is this a microphone or a
Speaker 1: giant black snake? And I just don't I can't, you know,
Speaker 1: deal with Yeah, Yes, I hear what you're saying, and
Speaker 1: it's I think that That's why I described them as
Speaker 1: being kind of tools. I think it's useful to look
Speaker 1: at them as tools. And you know, we're getting really
Speaker 1: granular about it, and we could go even further into
Speaker 1: it if you want. I don't know if that's going
Speaker 1: to put your listeners to sleep or not. But I
Speaker 1: think if we take it to a really practical level,
Speaker 1: you know, we could say that let's look at a
Speaker 1: thought about yourself, an intrusive negative thought. You know, if
Speaker 1: you have this thought in the morning when you wake
Speaker 1: up and you look in the mirror and you're like, well,
Speaker 1: I suck and I'm going to fail today. I'm unlovable.
Speaker 1: Parents hate me, and I'm just projecting at this point. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but then you know this, parents hate me, I'll ever succeed. Bald,
Speaker 1: matter or ugly, you know, all the thoughts that we
Speaker 1: all have every morning. You know, if you have those thoughts,
Speaker 1: then that's a moment where you would pause and go,
Speaker 1: you know, this is just trash. Yeah, this is garbage.
Speaker 1: These are weird, Like I'm probably didn't sleep well, you know,
Speaker 1: I had some dream or something, and these are just
Speaker 1: some weird like insecurities or something that's arisen for me. Ultimately,
Speaker 1: what that probably is leading to is like I'm feeling
Speaker 1: fearful about a new situation I have to enter into
Speaker 1: that day, something like I'm not familiar with. And so
Speaker 1: the fear part of the mind that tries to protect
Speaker 1: you and keep you from going into growth situations because
Speaker 1: it wants to keep you safe. Is throwing up these
Speaker 1: little roadblocks to try and scare you away from going
Speaker 1: into new territory that will make you grow. That's probably
Speaker 1: what's really happening. So if you recognize like those arising
Speaker 1: thoughts like okay, this is just noise, these are intrusive thoughts,
Speaker 1: they're not real, you know, obviously, that's where that's really helpful.
Speaker 1: Or alternatively, if you have you know, good constructive thoughts
Speaker 1: around self confidence, where if you're going into a situation
Speaker 1: like we could say a professional situation, or you're going
Speaker 1: to a date, and you're thinking, okay, I feel good,
Speaker 1: look good, feel confident, I got value. Let's go do
Speaker 1: this and also take it out of the self like
Speaker 1: this is going to be fun. Let's go experiment and
Speaker 1: you know, get curious and just have a new experience.
Speaker 1: This is going to be great. Like then ride along
Speaker 1: with that flow of thoughts, you know. I think that's
Speaker 1: generally how one would use their discernment to distinguish. Now,
Speaker 1: if you want to go into the depths of phenomenology
Speaker 1: and kind of the ontological texture of reality and consciousness,
Speaker 1: I'm really happy to I love thinking about that and
Speaker 1: have thought about it for twenty years. It just depends
Speaker 1: on if you want to get into that with your
Speaker 1: listeners or not. If anyone's driving, I don't want them
Speaker 1: to fall asleep and crash and guild themselves.
Speaker 3: All right, we'll pull ourselves out. Although I'm certainly interested
Speaker 3: in all that, you know, I think that gets to
Speaker 3: sort of what I said, like, my my best thought
Speaker 3: tool is really just to kind of ask myself, like
Speaker 3: is this thought useful? Like is it actually serving a
Speaker 3: useful purpose right now? Because I might be having a
Speaker 3: thought that in ways seems sort of negative, but it
Speaker 3: might be useful, right Like i might be feeling bad
Speaker 3: about something that I did and I'm trying to figure
Speaker 3: out how to make it right. Doesn't feel good, but
Speaker 3: it's a useful thought.
Speaker 1: Absolutely.
Speaker 3: But to your point, a general I suck and I'm
Speaker 3: going to fail at everything is completely unuseful.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 3: You also talk somewhere about I can't seem to find
Speaker 3: the exact phrase, but you talk about these thoughts of
Speaker 3: the future tend to show up as prophecies, meaning we
Speaker 3: think we know what's going to happen.
Speaker 1: Right. Absolutely, Yeah, it's such a huge value in understanding
Speaker 1: how that works out. So I just unpack it a
Speaker 1: little bit. It's something in the book I talk about
Speaker 1: in terms of self fulfilling prophecies. Whenever we get these
Speaker 1: these intrusive thoughts and we allow them to effect, you know,
Speaker 1: the way that we feel, the way that we're acting,
Speaker 1: we can end up creating the negative outcome and the
Speaker 1: situation that we were scared and that we were projecting
Speaker 1: about in the first place. So an example would be
Speaker 1: if we are about to go to a party or
Speaker 1: something and we're like, you know, I'm nervous, I'm anxious.
Speaker 1: People are gonna want to talk to me. I don't know.
Speaker 1: I look weird, you know, I don't really know anyone.
Speaker 1: I'm bald and unlovable, like my parenting. Again, then when
Speaker 1: if you go to the party, you get there and
Speaker 1: you think about how are you arriving, Like your energy,
Speaker 1: your mindset, your posture, you're breathing, your confidence, your comfort levels,
Speaker 1: you're adrenaline, all these different things inside your body. Your
Speaker 1: shoulders are slumped down, you're a little awkward, you're not
Speaker 1: in your flow. Most important, that you're not talking about
Speaker 1: things that you like and you enjoy. You're not being yourself.
Speaker 1: You're not leaning into the topics that make you feel alive,
Speaker 1: that perk you up and give you that energy that
Speaker 1: you want to bring to a social situation so that
Speaker 1: not to impress anyone, but just so that you'll have fun.
Speaker 1: You know what it means that you have a good time.
Speaker 1: So what happens is you get there and you're like, Okay,
Speaker 1: all these people hate me, even though they have met
Speaker 1: me before. This is unbearable. I'm going to stand on
Speaker 1: the corner. I'm going to slump my shoulders. And so
Speaker 1: by following through and believing that thought program, you'll end
Speaker 1: up actually manifesting that. And I don't mean in a
Speaker 1: metaphysical way. I mean you'll bring that situation to life
Speaker 1: because your thoughts influence how you feel, and how you
Speaker 1: feel influences how you act, and so you'll be acting
Speaker 1: awkward and weird and detached. You won't be making eye contact,
Speaker 1: and other people will read that as you not being
Speaker 1: interested in talking to them, or you're being closed off
Speaker 1: for business socially, and so they won't end up talking
Speaker 1: to you. And so by believing that thought program, you
Speaker 1: end up creating that outcome. Now, alternatively, if you're about
Speaker 1: to go out and you're like, well, this is gonna
Speaker 1: be really fun. I can't wait to meet these people
Speaker 1: and it's going to be interesting. I heard you know,
Speaker 1: this person's taking me. They're cool, so they must know
Speaker 1: cool people. I'm excited to see what this is all about.
Speaker 1: And you go there and you arrive. I was joking
Speaker 1: with a friend about this recently. This is one of
Speaker 1: the key words that people say that you can tell
Speaker 1: they've been meditating a long time. Like, if you listen
Speaker 1: for this and eric, I know, you'll have like a
Speaker 1: million of people in mind. Someone that says arising all
Speaker 1: the time, you know, is someone who's like a hardcore meditator. Right, Okay,
Speaker 1: So anyway, for people who are listening, that's because you're
Speaker 1: constantly thinking about the world, but you're also paying attention
Speaker 1: to what's emerging in your body in terms of thoughts
Speaker 1: and feelings and impulses, and so that's often the word
Speaker 1: is arising to describe that. Okay, So when you arise
Speaker 1: at a party, or if you arrive at a party,
Speaker 1: then you come with that energy of curiosity and fun
Speaker 1: and then people see you that you've never met before
Speaker 1: and they're like Oh, this person's awesome, Like they're you know,
Speaker 1: sparkly eyed, and they have good energy and they will talk,
Speaker 1: and so then you become attractive and people are magnetized
Speaker 1: to you. So keeping in mind how that self fulfilling
Speaker 1: prophecy thing works out, it translates to just every part
Speaker 1: of life, not only just social situations, but you know,
Speaker 1: professional situations, or even if you're just sort of like
Speaker 1: feeling like like kind of a gray day, like an
Speaker 1: off day. If you wake up and you're just like,
Speaker 1: you know, I feel kind of tired, like this day sucks.
Speaker 1: I feel lazy, and then you're like I have to
Speaker 1: go to the grocery store. I don't have anything to eat.
Speaker 1: Then instead of going like, okay, this is gonna suck,
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna get it out with being taking a
Speaker 1: pause and being like, I'm just like writing this miserable
Speaker 1: story in my brain right now about what the future
Speaker 1: is going to be. Like, I don't know what the
Speaker 1: future is going to be, Like, why am I shaving
Speaker 1: down my experience of my own life to this miserable
Speaker 1: little nub? Let me shift my mindset and expand and
Speaker 1: move into this experience with some openness and curiosity. And
Speaker 1: what happens is that whenever you do that, you walk
Speaker 1: into the store. Instead of going like, all right, where's
Speaker 1: the broccoli, you walk in, you go, this is bizarre
Speaker 1: that this plant was grown like, you know, five hundred
Speaker 1: miles from here, and that some time along the course
Speaker 1: of human history some person saw this green little tree
Speaker 1: and was like that delicious, and they figured out how
Speaker 1: to apply fire to it and make it. And it's
Speaker 1: just they're stacked perfectly in a geometrical pattern, and ice
Speaker 1: right here, and what is ice? Ice? We figured out that,
Speaker 1: like somehow, there's like this liquid that when if you
Speaker 1: push the particles close enough together, it turns into something
Speaker 1: solid that can burn you and kill you or keep
Speaker 1: you alive. Like you need to reduce your inflammation, get
Speaker 1: in the ice bath. You need to, you know, but
Speaker 1: yet you don't want too much ice or elsel freeze.
Speaker 1: It's like this bizarre thing, you know. And then that
Speaker 1: wonder then accelerates all of your positive, feel good chemicals
Speaker 1: in your brain, and all of a sudden you go
Speaker 1: from having this great crappy day to you know, having fun,
Speaker 1: laughing and just kind of exploring the miraculous nature of
Speaker 1: being and so it really that type of mindset shift
Speaker 1: works anywhere as long as the only kids you have
Speaker 1: to just remember to do it.
Speaker 3: I want to pause for a quick good Wolf reminder.
Speaker 3: This one's about a habit change and a mistake I
Speaker 3: see people making. And that's really that we don't think
Speaker 3: about these new habits that we want to add in
Speaker 3: the context of our entire life. Right, habits don't happen
Speaker 3: in a vacuum. They have to fit in the life
Speaker 3: that we have. So when we just keep adding I
Speaker 3: should do this, I should do that, I should do this,
Speaker 3: we get discouraged because we haven't really thought about what
Speaker 3: we're not going to do in order to make that happen.
Speaker 3: So it's really helpful for you to think about where
Speaker 3: is this going to fit and what in my life
Speaker 3: might I need to remove. If you want to step
Speaker 3: by step guide for how you can easily build new
Speaker 3: habits that feed your good Wolf, go to good Wolf
Speaker 3: dot me, slash change and join the free masterclass.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: I love that idea of shaving our existence down to
Speaker 3: a nub. Right by saying that we know how it's
Speaker 3: going to be, we are, to some extent, you know,
Speaker 3: causing it to be that way. I may not be
Speaker 3: as optimistic as you to believe that by thinking that
Speaker 3: the grocery store is going to be good means I'm
Speaker 3: going to have a great time at the grocery store.
Speaker 3: But I certainly know that I at least have a
Speaker 3: chance to have a good time at the grocery store.
Speaker 3: You know, I used to see this with coaching clients
Speaker 3: all the time. Whatever it is they wanted to change,
Speaker 3: we would get off to a great start.
Speaker 1: We're doing great. You know how you doing. Oh, I'm good,
Speaker 1: I'm good.
Speaker 3: I guess, okay, And then they would be like, but
Speaker 3: I've started good before, and then I end up quitting,
Speaker 3: I end up giving up. I'm like, okay, I recognize
Speaker 3: that it's good to know what your tendencies are. And
Speaker 3: that voice doesn't know the future. The joke I always
Speaker 3: make is if it does, let's go to the track.
Speaker 3: Let's go to the horse racing track now, because that
Speaker 3: would be a great thing. Yeah, And there's nothing you
Speaker 3: can do about that today. You can't control whether two
Speaker 3: weeks from now you stop doing something right. You just
Speaker 3: focus on it today. But it's that self fulfilling prophecy,
Speaker 3: because the more you believe that you can't do it,
Speaker 3: then that actually drives motivation down.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 3: We know motivation goes up when you feel good and
Speaker 3: confident and down when you feel negative. So you're driving
Speaker 3: your motivation down, and you're making it more likely that
Speaker 3: indeed you are going to stop doing it based on
Speaker 3: this prophecy that I always screw this up.
Speaker 1: One hundred percent. And this is one of the things
Speaker 1: that I really use throughout the course of the book
Speaker 1: because ultimately what we're getting to and it's a reason
Speaker 1: why I start with mapping out these mental tools. I
Speaker 1: kind of call it some mental house cleaning. The beginning,
Speaker 1: all these negative thinking habits of self consciousness and poster syndrome, overthinking,
Speaker 1: making these assumptions about reality. Like we talked about, all
Speaker 1: of these negative thinking habits are just what have happened, right,
Speaker 1: It's just what we've experienced in life, and we just
Speaker 1: happen to get into this routine. It's like, why do
Speaker 1: you brush your teeth in the shower as opposed to
Speaker 1: brushing it in front of the sink. Well, no reason,
Speaker 1: It's just what you happen to get in the habit
Speaker 1: of doing. And our negative thinking habits are the same way.
Speaker 1: And what happens with those habits over time is they
Speaker 1: limit what we experience. And whenever they limit what we
Speaker 1: experience for long enough, we then get you to what
Speaker 1: we're experiencing, and we mistake what is happening now as
Speaker 1: what's normal. Therefore, what is all that's possible as opposed
Speaker 1: to what is really available for us in life. And
Speaker 1: so that's why I start describing these things ways that
Speaker 1: we can break these negative thinking habits so we can
Speaker 1: start to see a new landscape in our life and
Speaker 1: really start believing that the things that we want to do,
Speaker 1: the things we want to achieve, who we want to be,
Speaker 1: are really within reach. And the self fulfilling prophecy is
Speaker 1: one of the thinking habits we can use in a
Speaker 1: positive way to start building that because to get there,
Speaker 1: what we need is self confidence. For example, someone's listening
Speaker 1: to this and they want to start a podcast, and
Speaker 1: they go, I want to be as successful as Eric
Speaker 1: as a podcaster. I want to be as awesome as
Speaker 1: Eric and have all the same guests. Then they go, well,
Speaker 1: generally someone is going to think, you know, but who
Speaker 1: am I. I'm just some random person. I got one
Speaker 1: thousand Instagram followers, I don't you know, contacts like I
Speaker 1: probably I can't do this. Now, that's a limiting thought program.
Speaker 1: That's you know, an habitual way of thinking where someone
Speaker 1: is stopping before they even start. So what they need
Speaker 1: is they need the confidence to be able to go like,
Speaker 1: you know, let me try, Let me just start working
Speaker 1: towards it and go on this journey, see what happens,
Speaker 1: know that it's going to be you know, this growth
Speaker 1: process and so forth. But to get there, what one
Speaker 1: can do is they need to start kind of building
Speaker 1: meaning and purpose and that feeling of fulfillment. And that's
Speaker 1: how you can start building this level of confidence. So
Speaker 1: if you're following through this, as you mentioned, the self
Speaker 1: fulfilling profitsy thing, where you're recognizing how you're feeling in
Speaker 1: the moment, what your outlook and your mindset is, and
Speaker 1: you're taking time to realign that, to realign your perception,
Speaker 1: to check in with like what your mindset is, what
Speaker 1: your outlook is, how you're approaching life, how you're relating
Speaker 1: to your thoughts. You start doing that more consistently, and
Speaker 1: by doing that more consistently, by approaching your life with
Speaker 1: a sense of curiosity and openness and wonder as opposed
Speaker 1: to dread and limitedness. Then you start experiencing more and
Speaker 1: then your self awareness starts to increase because you're paying
Speaker 1: more attention to what you're feeling, what you're thinking. And
Speaker 1: as your self awareness starts to increase, you start seeing
Speaker 1: little things about yourself that you want to change. You go, oh,
Speaker 1: you know what, I should actually like start dressing a
Speaker 1: little bit sharper. That's going to make me feel better.
Speaker 1: I should start eating better. I should start exercising. I
Speaker 1: need to like reach out to my friends more so
Speaker 1: I feel more connected to people. I need to start
Speaker 1: spending more time and prioritizing the things in life that
Speaker 1: actually make me feel good instead of just feeling guilty
Speaker 1: for sneaking those things in whenever I feel like I
Speaker 1: can get away with it. And when you start doing
Speaker 1: those things, all of the neuroplastists in your brain starts
Speaker 1: to change. Your whole outlook starts to change, and you
Speaker 1: start to feel a little better about yourself. You start
Speaker 1: to feel more able to trust your instinct because you
Speaker 1: had that instinct and you trusted it in a very
Speaker 1: small way, And by doing that and making a small change,
Speaker 1: you can look back and go, you know what, there
Speaker 1: is a receipt. I just trusted that I did that.
Speaker 1: Now I feel better. I feel just a little bit
Speaker 1: of one degree better. So maybe now that I have
Speaker 1: that little tiny bit of self trust and just proof
Speaker 1: that I was able to do that, let me do
Speaker 1: that a little bit more. And so you do that
Speaker 1: a little bit more, and a little bit more and
Speaker 1: a little bit more, and all of a sudden, now
Speaker 1: you're going through life feeling like, you know what, I
Speaker 1: just kind of trust my instinct. I feel good about myself,
Speaker 1: and you're able to go and do something like start
Speaker 1: a podcast with some confidence and some self belief as
Speaker 1: opposed to just living in this world where that's not
Speaker 1: possible for you.
Speaker 3: You hit on something really important there, which is the
Speaker 3: incremental nature of those things. There isn't usually you're going
Speaker 3: to do like one little thing and you're going to
Speaker 3: feel fifty times better. You're going to feel one percent
Speaker 3: better maybe right, yeah, but that one percent, like you said,
Speaker 3: if instead of expecting we should feel fifty percent better
Speaker 3: and being like, well, that didn't work. Whatever Corey just
Speaker 3: said to do didn't work because I still feel mostly
Speaker 3: the same. And you look for the little bit that's
Speaker 3: better that will allow you to keep going. And that's
Speaker 3: what it takes, at least my experience is changing something
Speaker 3: like our thought patterns is something that is absolutely doable
Speaker 3: and is an incremental affair generally. Not that some people
Speaker 3: don't have dramatic epiphanies and awakenings, but even those often
Speaker 3: need a lot of integration time. It took me fifty
Speaker 3: years to get this thinking habit engaged. Now hopefully a
Speaker 3: lot of people are starting to do this earlier, but
Speaker 3: still I'm not going to undo it that quickly. But
Speaker 3: it is that incremental nature and looking for the small
Speaker 3: victories which then make us more likely to do the
Speaker 3: thing again.
Speaker 1: One hundred percent. You know, we were talking yesterday and
Speaker 1: you mentioned how there was just a lot of ground
Speaker 1: covered in the book. And that's why I covered a
Speaker 1: lot of ground, because it's a plan. You know. It
Speaker 1: starts at where a person is today and leads them
Speaker 1: through all the things we're talking about to getting them
Speaker 1: to Basically, I want to get them to how I
Speaker 1: feel in life. Now. You know, I don't mean that
Speaker 1: a goic way or anything. It's just like I feel good,
Speaker 1: I feel confident, and I have self belief and I
Speaker 1: can do things, but I also have all of the
Speaker 1: negative thoughts. You know, don't let's not forget involved and lovable,
Speaker 1: you know, like like lest we forget do we need
Speaker 1: to talk about this afterwards? You really by experiencing this path,
Speaker 1: you know, it's shown me a direct way of like
Speaker 1: the incremental steps in blocks, you need to be able
Speaker 1: to unpack and get out of that limiting way of
Speaker 1: thinking into one where you can become your version of extraordinary.
Speaker 1: And I love that you mentioned the intermittentness because one
Speaker 1: of the chunks I put in there is set attainable goals.
Speaker 1: You know, that's one of the keys. We don't like
Speaker 1: the feeling of failure. So if we try and set
Speaker 1: these giant goals for ourselves, like you mentioned this fifty
Speaker 1: percent increase, whenever it doesn't happen for us, because inevitably
Speaker 1: it's not possible, then we're going to go, well, that sucks,
Speaker 1: I can't do it. But alternatively, we like feeling good
Speaker 1: about ourselves surprise, surprise. So if you set an attainable goal,
Speaker 1: then whenever you achieve it, you're like, I'm pretty awesome.
Speaker 1: I just achieved that. And so you set another attainable goal,
Speaker 1: and you go, hey, look I did it again. Hey
Speaker 1: look I did it again. And now a year later,
Speaker 1: you've like, I've done three hundred and sixty five small
Speaker 1: things to contribute to me having a better life next year.
Speaker 1: And again it all goes back to confidence, belief, self trust,
Speaker 1: and clarity. Yeah.
Speaker 3: I think it's one of the things that the sort
Speaker 3: of modern wellness industry has. I think it's done a
Speaker 3: lot of good things in the world. I mean, obviously
Speaker 3: I'm part of it, you're part of it. But I
Speaker 3: think one of the things that it has done that
Speaker 3: is a disservice is the over promising of things like
Speaker 3: I'm going to pick on a popular podcaster here, and
Speaker 3: this is not entirely fair, but I'm just going to
Speaker 3: use it because it came to mind, which is Andrew
Speaker 3: Hubermann's a big fan of like getting out and having
Speaker 3: a little bit of time in the morning, like getting
Speaker 3: some light. I think this is great, it's an absolutely
Speaker 3: good thing to do. It helps, But sometimes we oversell
Speaker 3: something like that to the point that like if we
Speaker 3: go out and we do it and we we are
Speaker 3: expecting something more than Oh, that was kind of a
Speaker 3: nice way to start my morning. Right, we're expecting that suddenly,
Speaker 3: like we are going to be transformed by fifteen minutes
Speaker 3: of sunlight, right, as.
Speaker 1: If humans had never had the thought of like being
Speaker 1: outside before, you know, exactly.
Speaker 3: And some of this we bring on ourselves because we
Speaker 3: want the silver bullet, right, we want the easy answer.
Speaker 3: If we feel lousy, of course, we want to feel
Speaker 3: better quickly, you know. I mean, hell, I pursued this
Speaker 3: to the gates of insanity and death with heroin. I mean,
Speaker 3: I'm very familiar with this thing. But that sort of
Speaker 3: realistic expectation is really really important because it's what gives
Speaker 3: us the fuel to go on, because to your point,
Speaker 3: you don't do something that you don't think is going
Speaker 3: to work, h absolutely, or that you think you're failing at.
Speaker 3: And so I think that that idea is really important.
Speaker 3: You start the book off very early by saying that
Speaker 3: people who elevate their lives all have one thing in common.
Speaker 3: They believe that more is possible for them. And I
Speaker 3: was really struck by that because it's a very obvious
Speaker 3: statement on one level, like of course, and it's easy
Speaker 3: to get into like saying like, oh, well, that's just
Speaker 3: positive thinking. But actually it's not. It's this very practical thing.
Speaker 3: And I think that the believe that more is possible
Speaker 3: is for me what the important piece is, because I
Speaker 3: don't know what kind of temperament. I have a melancholic
Speaker 3: enough temperament. As soon as somebody starts trotting out the
Speaker 3: rainbows and stuff, I'm like, eh, you know, like, let
Speaker 3: me tell you why that won't work.
Speaker 1: But possible I can get to.
Speaker 3: Possible, I can get to I can just go, well,
Speaker 3: maybe it is possible, you know, maybe it is possible
Speaker 3: that I can become a good writer. Yes, Yes, that's
Speaker 3: the big challenge that I'm sort of right up against
Speaker 3: right now. And I can look at my writing right
Speaker 3: now and I can objectively be like, well it's okay,
Speaker 3: but it's not great. Yeah, right, But the fact that
Speaker 3: I believe it's possible that I'm going to get better,
Speaker 3: not like you're so great, you know, like not that
Speaker 3: just you can get better, yeah, makes such a big difference.
Speaker 1: Yeah. And I mean, first off, it truly does. And
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, we already know that you're going
Speaker 1: to turn into a great writer because you just used
Speaker 1: a double on tundra, he said, right, And I'm right
Speaker 1: onto that writing. That's really true. I mean, and that's
Speaker 1: what I think is so important to me about anything,
Speaker 1: is practicality and just realness being like, let's not just
Speaker 1: serve up a bunch of positive thinking bullshit. Let's look
Speaker 1: at the fundamental aspects of human nature. Let's understand what
Speaker 1: we're all experiencing and figure outw to just move forward
Speaker 1: a little bit internally. And you know, I like to
Speaker 1: choose zero it in on that statement because one of
Speaker 1: the ways that I you know, let's say, downloaded the
Speaker 1: architecture of this book, the whole structure was through my
Speaker 1: Instagram following and my newsletter and whatnot. You know, I'm
Speaker 1: reaching at least a million people a week with my
Speaker 1: writing and over the last at least a year, a
Speaker 1: little over a year. What I would do is I
Speaker 1: started taking really clear notes on how people are commenting,
Speaker 1: what posts that they're responding to, how people are engaging,
Speaker 1: what dms you know, I'm getting you know, one hundred
Speaker 1: dms a day or more or whatever from people, What
Speaker 1: are they saying, how are they responding? And not just
Speaker 1: like what are the words, but like, if you've ever
Speaker 1: read that book, the twenty one ineffable laws of marketing.
Speaker 1: I think that's what it's called. One of the really
Speaker 1: valuable keys in there is put your mind in the
Speaker 1: mind of the prospect. And I think that's what I
Speaker 1: do with writing and with creating this stuff a lot.
Speaker 1: It's like, let me visualize what is the experience in
Speaker 1: a person's life that would have them read something online
Speaker 1: and comment X to it? What are they going through that?
Speaker 1: Why would they say that? And I started really thinking
Speaker 1: about these things because I'm so curious in terms of like,
Speaker 1: I know what I think people want, right, but that's
Speaker 1: just my perception. I wanted to try and figure out, like,
Speaker 1: what is the cultural texture actually asking for The biggest
Speaker 1: thing I noticed, and really each of the chunks of
Speaker 1: my book that I laid out are based on consistency.
Speaker 1: Seeing these issues, these problems arise again, then again and
Speaker 1: again and again. I thought, you know what here it is.
Speaker 1: It's telling me what everyone needs. And so I put
Speaker 1: it into a linear path and applied, you know, my
Speaker 1: own experience to it to make it all zip together.
Speaker 1: But the biggest thing that I noticed that everyone seems
Speaker 1: to feel. And this was really fascinating to me because
Speaker 1: I wouldn't have thought you can insert an ad right there. No,
Speaker 1: But this is really a fascinating to me that I
Speaker 1: wouldn't have thought. This is that everyone feels like they
Speaker 1: are right before being able to get to something great.
Speaker 1: They feel like they're right there. They can feel the
Speaker 1: possibility that it's like right within their fingertips and that
Speaker 1: they deserve it and that they could do it, and
Speaker 1: they're like this, that could be me. But they can't
Speaker 1: seem to figure out how to find the way through
Speaker 1: the tunnel from this version of their life to the
Speaker 1: other version of their life that they're imagining that is
Speaker 1: whatever that means for them. That could be finding a partner,
Speaker 1: starting a business, going on and on and on, become
Speaker 1: a cult leader. I'm just sorry, Wisdom without Levity as
Speaker 1: a tragedy? Did you just make that? That was from
Speaker 1: my first book, So I'm self quoting like a true asshole.
Speaker 3: Yeah, like a true cult leader.
Speaker 1: So that's the feeling, and that's what fascinates me. That's
Speaker 1: why the cornerstone of the book is teaching someone. How
Speaker 1: can we get someone to find that level of self
Speaker 1: clarity and believe and actually motivate to that place of
Speaker 1: like you said, like you know what that's possible, and
Speaker 1: it's not this thing of like, well, I'm going to
Speaker 1: dunk on Lebron James. It's like you, no, that's not
Speaker 1: what we're talking about yet.
Speaker 3: Right, right, This just takes me back to you know,
Speaker 3: the work of Carol Dwek and the growth mindset, which
Speaker 3: is just very simple, which is, if you believe you
Speaker 3: can get better, you actually will, and if you don't
Speaker 3: believe you can get better, you won't. And you know,
Speaker 3: it doesn't say anything about how good you can get.
Speaker 3: I mean, like to your point, like, there's no way
Speaker 3: I'm going to dunk on Lebron James. That's not happening
Speaker 3: in my lifetime. But I could become a hell of
Speaker 3: a lot better basketball player if I wanted to. Right,
Speaker 3: that's the element of that that's really helpful. This is
Speaker 3: going to cover us back over some of what we've
Speaker 3: talked about before. But I just want to hit it
Speaker 3: again because I just love this phrase, and then we're
Speaker 3: going to have run out of time. But clarity is
Speaker 3: realizing your mind is full of assumptions.
Speaker 1: M I love that you picked that one out for
Speaker 1: a plethora of reasons. One is because it's kind of
Speaker 1: one of my favorite phrases I've ever come up with. Wellever.
Speaker 1: I've posted that on Instagram. Some people really it blows
Speaker 1: their mind and they see it and they love it,
Speaker 1: and other people it just sounds like white noise, you know,
Speaker 1: and so it's kind of fun and that's the perfect
Speaker 1: reaction for a statement like that, right. But the other
Speaker 1: reason I love that you said it is because I literally,
Speaker 1: out of all the things in the book this morning,
Speaker 1: when I was writing a newsletter, I picked that sentence
Speaker 1: to focus on. Oh, it's how bizarre, is that? Right?
Speaker 1: We're insane? Yes, we are. Also, I have your computer tapped?
Speaker 1: Yours tapped? Oh yeah, yeah, I guess so while I
Speaker 1: was thinking if you were taking notes then, but maybe
Speaker 1: it turns out I love the idea that we've to
Speaker 1: have each other's screens. So, yes, this is a really
Speaker 1: valuable concept to think about. We make assumptions about everything
Speaker 1: all the time. As we're going through our lives. We're
Speaker 1: creating these stories about what's real, what's happening. And I
Speaker 1: don't mean what's real in the terms of, as you said,
Speaker 1: there's a thousand locusts or whatever on the wall over there,
Speaker 1: but in terms of like what's situational realness, relational realness,
Speaker 1: a sense of you know, like we're talking what's possible,
Speaker 1: what's actually happening, and what our mind does this little
Speaker 1: jerk and awesome guy called the hippocampus part of our brain.
Speaker 1: It fills in the gaps in our story that we're
Speaker 1: writing for ourselves in our minds, and that can be well.
Speaker 1: First off, it's necessary because to be a person, to
Speaker 1: be conscious, you have to feel like the story is continuous.
Speaker 1: So we fill in these gaps all the time so
Speaker 1: that we never run out of conscious experience, material and narrative.
Speaker 1: But also happens is as we started talking about at
Speaker 1: the beginning of the podcast, is that the memories of
Speaker 1: negative self, the bad imprentations, the traumas, the moments we've
Speaker 1: been denied, the moments we've been embarrassed. These things lurk
Speaker 1: in our subconscious and they often try and come back
Speaker 1: to steal away from the present moment because ultimately, what
Speaker 1: they're doing is they're trying to protect us from feeling
Speaker 1: that way again. So whatever we have those negative feelings,
Speaker 1: those negative things arise. Generally, what's happening is it's going
Speaker 1: that was horrible to feel that way. Let's continuously scan
Speaker 1: the environment so that we can try and recognize situations
Speaker 1: where we might feel that way again, and then send
Speaker 1: up emotions that scares us away that it feels dangerous,
Speaker 1: so that we don't get near that situation so we
Speaker 1: won't have to feel that again. That's why, and it
Speaker 1: happens from the same part of the brain that make
Speaker 1: the lower brain, the fight or flight part of the brain,
Speaker 1: the animal brain. That's why if you go up next
Speaker 1: to a raging river, it feels scary. It's like, why
Speaker 1: would a river feel scary? It's not scary, it's just
Speaker 1: a river. But we get close to the edge of
Speaker 1: the river bank, you feel like a magnetic thing pushing
Speaker 1: against you. You feel fear of like whoa better not
Speaker 1: get too close to that. It's the same part of
Speaker 1: the brain on an animal level, on a physical level,
Speaker 1: pushing us back because it's going don't go in there,
Speaker 1: that's dangerous, get back, and so we're moving backwards. Emotionally
Speaker 1: and psychologically. The same thing happens the situations where our
Speaker 1: brain recognizes that we could be vulnerable, that we could
Speaker 1: feel embarrassed or whatever. Again, it literally sends us the
Speaker 1: same feeling and goes shut that down, and it's down
Speaker 1: to do that. However, it needs, you know, to tell
Speaker 1: whatever nasty thing it needs to tell you to keep
Speaker 1: you away from putting yourself in the situation. Right, So,
Speaker 1: as we moved through life, what generally happened is that
Speaker 1: in those gaps in our story we will have these
Speaker 1: negative things be inserted to try and keep us protected
Speaker 1: from getting surprised by a negative situation. Again. So to
Speaker 1: really break that down to an example, say that you
Speaker 1: text a friend and then you don't hear from them
Speaker 1: in six hours. You that's weird. Then you don't hear
Speaker 1: from them for the rest of the night, and you're like, huh,
Speaker 1: well that's unusual. And then another a day goes by,
Speaker 1: and now where are we Right now, we start thinking
Speaker 1: what does this person like? Did I do something to
Speaker 1: this person? Are they mad at me? They don't think
Speaker 1: I'm worth responding to? Are they like blowing me off?
Speaker 1: Like what's the deal here? You know? And so that's
Speaker 1: the moment wherever your brain, your mind is inserting imagination
Speaker 1: into the story, right, And so that's this is back
Speaker 1: to this clarity, is realizing your mind is full of
Speaker 1: assumptions in that moment, and we're going to get over
Speaker 1: to some like practical application now. So in those moments
Speaker 1: in life, like this text message thing, whenever you recognize
Speaker 1: that you're feeling a certain way like that in that moment,
Speaker 1: you just stop and you label, like what actual information
Speaker 1: am I dealing with? And where am I just filling
Speaker 1: in the gaps? Right, So you're like, Okay, I texted
Speaker 1: this person, they haven't responded. That's all the information I have,
Speaker 1: all this other stuff about them being mad at me,
Speaker 1: about me thinking the last time that we talked about
Speaker 1: how this could be why they're mad at me. That's
Speaker 1: all imagination, and so being able to recognize that and
Speaker 1: release it and not turn it into this thing to
Speaker 1: where now it's controlling your behavior. It's controlling how you're
Speaker 1: moving through the world. And now you have a kind
Speaker 1: of a fear, a negative sense of self. And that again,
Speaker 1: how you are feeling influences what you think. How you
Speaker 1: think influences how you act. So now you're going through
Speaker 1: your day with that energy. Now we get into this
Speaker 1: self fulfilling prophecy thing that we talked about. Now you're
Speaker 1: this this whole cycle that starts spinning up right, and
Speaker 1: so by recognizing that that's happening, you can break that cycle.
Speaker 1: So whenever your friend then texts you two days later
Speaker 1: and says, hey, man, I was traveling. Sorry I just
Speaker 1: got your text. Now I'd love to have dinner and
Speaker 1: ketchup tomorrow, then you can go great as opposed to
Speaker 1: being like, ah, why did I spend two days of
Speaker 1: beating myself up over this? So the more in life
Speaker 1: that we can realize that when we're making those assumptions,
Speaker 1: the more time will spend outside of that self beating up,
Speaker 1: you know, reality toxifying type of situation.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I really like that. So listener and thinking about
Speaker 3: that and all the other great wisdom.
Speaker 1: From today's episode.
Speaker 3: If you were going to isolate just one top insight
Speaker 3: that you're taking away, what would it be. Remember, little
Speaker 3: by little, a little becomes a lot. Change happens by
Speaker 3: us repeatedly taking positive action. And I want to give
Speaker 3: you a tip on that, and it's to start small.
Speaker 3: It's really important when we're trying to implement new habits
Speaker 3: to often start smaller than we think we need to
Speaker 3: because what that does is it allows us to get victories.
Speaker 3: And victories are really important because we become more motivated
Speaker 3: when we're feeling good about ourselves, and we become less
Speaker 3: motivated when we're feeling bad about ourselves. So by starting
Speaker 3: small and making sure that you succeed, you build your
Speaker 3: motivation for further change down the road. If you'd like
Speaker 3: a step by step guide for how you can easily
Speaker 3: build new habits that feed your good Wolf, go to
Speaker 3: Goodwolf dot me, slash change and join the free masterclass.
Speaker 1: Beautiful Well, that.
Speaker 3: Is an excellent place for us to wrap up. Amazingly,
Speaker 3: it's time to wrap up. It feels like we just
Speaker 3: got started, but I think according to the clock, it's time.
Speaker 3: Thank you so much for coming on, Corey. I'm really
Speaker 3: excited to have gotten to talk with you again. Your
Speaker 3: book is called Brave New You a roadmap to believing
Speaker 3: that more is possible.
Speaker 1: Thanks. Thank you so much, Eric Man, I really appreciate
Speaker 1: you having me on as always. It was just really
Speaker 1: fun and just great to talk to you. Thank you.
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