WEBVTT - Back to Biz with Katie and Boz: Tech journalist Kara Swisher 0:00:00.160 --> 0:00:03.440 Still living in manually taking notes. There is a better 0:00:03.480 --> 0:00:05.560 way to start the new year with auto dot ai 0:00:05.720 --> 0:00:09.000 automatically get meeting notes. Auto dot ai works for virtual 0:00:09.039 --> 0:00:11.680 meetings like Zoom, Microsoft Teams, and Google Meet. Sign up 0:00:11.680 --> 0:00:13.680 on the web for free or downloading the up stores 0:00:13.720 --> 0:00:16.680 auto dot ai. That's O T T E R dot Ai. 0:00:19.320 --> 0:00:22.040 The moment you realized you were mistaking your kids for 0:00:22.160 --> 0:00:29.560 co workers? Okay, team, I'm taking my fifteen now. What 0:00:29.600 --> 0:00:31.720 was the moment you knew it was time to get 0:00:31.760 --> 0:00:35.280 back to work? 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I'm Katie 0:01:21.040 --> 0:01:23.800 Couric and I'm Bozma st. John and this is Back 0:01:23.840 --> 0:01:28.200 to Biz with Katie and Bose. So this is it. 0:01:28.200 --> 0:01:31.479 It's our first episode of Back to Biz. We've been 0:01:31.520 --> 0:01:35.240 talking about it for some time now, and it's really happening. 0:01:35.600 --> 0:01:38.640 I'm super jazz to get this party started. I know 0:01:38.880 --> 0:01:41.280 me too, and it feels like it's the perfect time 0:01:41.280 --> 0:01:43.800 to do it. Um. I'm still looking forward to all 0:01:43.800 --> 0:01:46.360 the conversations that we're gonna have here. You know, we've 0:01:46.400 --> 0:01:51.240 got ten episodes to interview leaders in business, tech, public policy, 0:01:51.440 --> 0:01:55.320 as well as entrepreneurs, pop culture, trailblazers and just all 0:01:55.360 --> 0:01:59.120 around huge big thinkers. Well, and we could really use 0:01:59.200 --> 0:02:02.760 some big thing ers at this moment in our nation's history. Bows, 0:02:02.840 --> 0:02:05.600 and we're gonna be talking to them about how they're 0:02:05.640 --> 0:02:10.079 responding to these big societal shifts the pandemic has brought about, 0:02:10.120 --> 0:02:12.760 about how they're adjusting to this new way of life, 0:02:13.000 --> 0:02:18.200 often not just through adaptation, but innovation too. In many ways, Bose, 0:02:18.280 --> 0:02:20.519 I think this has been a terrible thing, but it's 0:02:20.600 --> 0:02:25.720 also a time for reassessing, recalibrating, and in some cases, 0:02:25.760 --> 0:02:29.120 I think rethinking everything that's right that's right. And our 0:02:29.160 --> 0:02:31.560 first guests I think really sets the tone for this 0:02:31.680 --> 0:02:35.320 series as someone who's forward thinking and innovative and just 0:02:35.600 --> 0:02:38.640 all around so cool. She's so in demand, you know, 0:02:38.800 --> 0:02:43.720 I mean, she's a tech journalist. Kara Swisher, Kara, al Right, 0:02:43.840 --> 0:02:47.040 I'm here, Yeah, I'm here, I'm here here. Hold on, 0:02:47.320 --> 0:02:50.720 Oh are you cranky? No, not cranky. I'm tired. I've 0:02:50.800 --> 0:02:53.640 had days. Let me get my hold little one. Sec 0:02:55.160 --> 0:02:58.320 here you are, and the sunglasses, the aviators come on, 0:02:59.320 --> 0:03:02.119 I mean gonna I'm gonna sleep during the internet. Wait, 0:03:02.400 --> 0:03:06.160 let me be the picture in your Kara is I 0:03:06.160 --> 0:03:11.160 think the personification of the modern media Maven and very 0:03:11.160 --> 0:03:15.840 good at alliteration too, because bos this woman is everywhere. 0:03:16.240 --> 0:03:19.160 She's a columnist for The New York Times. She's founder 0:03:19.200 --> 0:03:22.079 and editor at large of the tech site Recode. When 0:03:22.120 --> 0:03:25.360 she's not writing, she's podcasting, the co host of the 0:03:25.400 --> 0:03:29.400 award winning Pivot podcast. She's the host of Recode Decode, 0:03:29.639 --> 0:03:32.600 and she's also cooking up a new podcast for The 0:03:32.639 --> 0:03:35.960 New York Times, which is still unnamed right now, that's 0:03:35.960 --> 0:03:38.480 set to release this fall. I don't know how she 0:03:38.560 --> 0:03:40.680 does it. And on top of that, she's a mother 0:03:40.760 --> 0:03:44.040 of three, two high schoolers and a relatively new baby. 0:03:44.400 --> 0:03:48.440 She's quarantining in Washington, d C. I love Kara. She's 0:03:48.480 --> 0:03:51.920 such a badass, and more importantly, bows she thinks I'm 0:03:52.040 --> 0:03:55.360 a badass. But I know you got to know Kara 0:03:55.880 --> 0:03:59.600 recently in one of your latest gigs, right, yeah, that's right. 0:03:59.600 --> 0:04:01.000 Well you know what, We're about to be a trio 0:04:01.040 --> 0:04:03.920 of badasses. I'll tell you that because I've known Kara 0:04:04.120 --> 0:04:07.560 for some time. I met her at first when I 0:04:07.600 --> 0:04:09.680 was the chief brand officer at Uber and I had 0:04:09.840 --> 0:04:12.640 just stepped into a big pile of it, and she 0:04:12.800 --> 0:04:15.920 wanted me on stage at Recode, which is our conference. 0:04:16.279 --> 0:04:19.760 It was September sev and I went in really prepared 0:04:19.839 --> 0:04:21.719 to face the fire. You know, I knew she was 0:04:21.760 --> 0:04:23.520 really going to give it to me. So I was 0:04:23.520 --> 0:04:25.520 prepared for Kara, But you know who I wasn't prepared 0:04:25.560 --> 0:04:30.240 for her Mama, her mother, who I met backstage before 0:04:30.279 --> 0:04:33.080 I even got on stage, and she gave it to 0:04:33.120 --> 0:04:35.200 me good. I mean, she was just giving me all 0:04:35.240 --> 0:04:38.240 the questions and Kara, Yes, Kara had to come and 0:04:38.279 --> 0:04:39.920 break us up. You know, I think she was probably 0:04:39.920 --> 0:04:42.520 stealing some of Kara's questions. So well, I guess the 0:04:42.560 --> 0:04:45.560 apple doesn't fall far from the tree, right, those That's 0:04:45.600 --> 0:04:49.320 exactly right, because I think Kara is an amazing journalist 0:04:49.520 --> 0:04:53.840 and she's really feared but also revered and that's a 0:04:53.880 --> 0:04:56.880 tough combination. And we thought that she was the perfect 0:04:56.920 --> 0:05:00.400 way to kick off our debut podcast together her. She 0:05:00.440 --> 0:05:03.640 has her finger on the pulse, not just a Silicon valley, 0:05:03.760 --> 0:05:07.159 but I think the business world in general, and the 0:05:07.200 --> 0:05:10.880 world of pop culture like you do, Bows right, and 0:05:11.000 --> 0:05:14.360 fashion because you know what, her affinity for aviators makes 0:05:14.400 --> 0:05:16.560 a lot more sense. Now I'll tell you that. Ye 0:05:17.000 --> 0:05:19.359 all right, last show or a movie that you loved. 0:05:19.680 --> 0:05:22.520 Oh god, there's so many um I think I liked 0:05:22.720 --> 0:05:25.400 um Oh gosh. That's while I was waiting for Top 0:05:25.400 --> 0:05:27.080 Gun Too, So I don't know what to say. I 0:05:27.120 --> 0:05:28.919 love Top Gun to. I was so excited for the 0:05:28.960 --> 0:05:31.360 sequel and Wonder Woman too. I know it sounds crazy, 0:05:31.400 --> 0:05:34.400 I'm a big Top Gun fan. Anyway, let's get to it, 0:05:35.880 --> 0:05:39.520 Kara Swisher. I am super excited because you are our 0:05:39.720 --> 0:05:44.159 debut guest on Bound Biz with Katie and Bows get 0:05:44.160 --> 0:05:49.880 it Bows. Oh my god, Like the pandemic has gotten 0:05:49.920 --> 0:05:53.320 to you. Katie, Oh my god, let me look at 0:05:54.360 --> 0:05:56.320 Let me look at your bookshelves for those Emmys and 0:05:56.360 --> 0:05:59.479 those Emmys back there. What's going on? Just if you Kara, 0:05:59.640 --> 0:06:03.920 just there, just but you and those know each other already, 0:06:03.960 --> 0:06:06.120 don't How did you guys get to know each other? 0:06:07.400 --> 0:06:11.320 Of all things? Arianna Huffington's introduced us um At at 0:06:11.360 --> 0:06:14.839 a graduation she was speaking at in San Francisco for 0:06:15.200 --> 0:06:19.560 a private girls school and and she, uh, she was 0:06:20.320 --> 0:06:23.640 she was hiring you to run marketing for or to 0:06:23.720 --> 0:06:26.719 do marketing for uber Um. And so we met there 0:06:26.720 --> 0:06:29.360 while Arianna was addressing the young lady the young rich 0:06:29.440 --> 0:06:31.920 ladies of San Francisco essentially, And I think your daughter 0:06:32.000 --> 0:06:35.240 went there eventually at some point we're going to do it, 0:06:35.279 --> 0:06:38.320 but then never moved up to Sanaa anyway. So we 0:06:38.440 --> 0:06:41.200 met and but at uber and I listened. She had 0:06:41.240 --> 0:06:43.240 nothing to do with the disaster that was uber. She 0:06:43.279 --> 0:06:46.680 tried her best, Uh, sort of got sucked into a 0:06:46.800 --> 0:06:50.240 really really toxic situation. I think that you came in 0:06:50.400 --> 0:06:55.360 post I think post when everything was already headed downhill exactly. 0:06:55.480 --> 0:06:57.960 But you know, it's like the I was telling Katie 0:06:57.960 --> 0:07:01.440 that you were the first person that I talked to 0:07:01.480 --> 0:07:04.160 when I decided to leave. Ah, oh, that's rightly. I 0:07:04.200 --> 0:07:07.279 wrote the story inside. Yeah, you know interesting. I talked 0:07:07.320 --> 0:07:09.680 to Francis Free the other day, who was also another 0:07:10.480 --> 0:07:12.760 pry excuse me the other day when who was another person? 0:07:13.280 --> 0:07:15.280 It was a Harvard Business School professor. You know, all 0:07:15.320 --> 0:07:17.440 these women came in to try to clean up that mess, 0:07:17.560 --> 0:07:20.000 and uh, and we're not successful. And of course Dark 0:07:20.080 --> 0:07:22.440 Coaster Shaw Heat today had to lay off I think 0:07:22.480 --> 0:07:25.040 three thousand people. It's some enormous number of people that 0:07:25.040 --> 0:07:26.880 people have been laid off, and they're closing down some 0:07:26.960 --> 0:07:30.200 businesses like freight. Um. It was at the time then 0:07:30.400 --> 0:07:32.200 everything was going great, and there was it was a 0:07:32.240 --> 0:07:36.679 culture problem that was born of the CEO, Travis klink 0:07:36.800 --> 0:07:39.440 and and the people he hired and trying to turning 0:07:39.440 --> 0:07:44.320 around a success, turning around a success into toxicity. And 0:07:44.360 --> 0:07:46.120 so you were trying to do that, and to me, 0:07:46.200 --> 0:07:49.120 it was like putting lipstick on I don't know what, 0:07:49.680 --> 0:07:52.320 on a coronavirus or something. It was just not good. 0:07:52.560 --> 0:07:54.440 That's not to make a joke about, but really you 0:07:54.440 --> 0:07:57.720 were trying to market something that had a fundamental issue 0:07:58.040 --> 0:08:00.600 with its business and now of course it's because of 0:08:00.640 --> 0:08:04.760 real issues of health and other things. Well, we're excited 0:08:04.800 --> 0:08:07.440 to talk to you, Kara, because a lot of the 0:08:07.440 --> 0:08:09.920 columns you've been writing in the New York Times or 0:08:10.080 --> 0:08:13.640 precisely some of the things we want to address as 0:08:14.160 --> 0:08:18.080 we go about this quote unquote new normal or new 0:08:18.360 --> 0:08:22.240 new future is ray Dalia said, that's right. That's really 0:08:22.280 --> 0:08:26.840 how how technology has been affected and how technology can 0:08:26.920 --> 0:08:29.800 help or in cases when it hurts. But before we 0:08:29.840 --> 0:08:34.920 talk about business, I know we wanted to talk about education. Sure, yes, well, 0:08:34.960 --> 0:08:37.160 I mean that's the thing. I mean, we're all adjusting, right. 0:08:37.280 --> 0:08:40.280 You mentioned you have a you know, kids who are 0:08:40.800 --> 0:08:44.200 looking towards graduation, et cetera. What what do you think 0:08:44.280 --> 0:08:47.200 is going to happen? Um? In terms of college, I 0:08:47.240 --> 0:08:50.680 mean virtual college or you thinking of gap years? Like 0:08:50.800 --> 0:08:52.800 what what do we do or what does what does 0:08:52.840 --> 0:08:56.520 your your child do? I'm leaving it up to him. 0:08:56.720 --> 0:08:59.320 He's gotten into two schools and he's gonna be going 0:08:59.360 --> 0:09:01.480 to n y U and so of course that's hot 0:09:01.520 --> 0:09:05.480 spots Central um. And I don't know. I'm going to 0:09:05.559 --> 0:09:07.760 leave it up to him. He every every day is different. 0:09:07.840 --> 0:09:09.000 He's like, I don't know if I want to do 0:09:09.040 --> 0:09:11.000 school on zoom. I think it's gonna gonna have to 0:09:11.040 --> 0:09:12.880 and there's gonna be definitely different. It's not gonna be 0:09:12.880 --> 0:09:16.679 the freshman experience that that everybody got to have. Um, 0:09:16.720 --> 0:09:18.280 And so I'm going to leave it up to him. 0:09:18.280 --> 0:09:19.640 And although I don't know what schools are going to 0:09:19.720 --> 0:09:22.800 do in terms of everybody taking a gap yere people 0:09:22.800 --> 0:09:25.439 take a gap year, that changes all the dynamics to 0:09:25.520 --> 0:09:28.160 the school. UM. So I'm going to let him decide. 0:09:28.160 --> 0:09:29.920 He's a he's a fine young man and he will 0:09:29.920 --> 0:09:32.680 figure out what he wants. He's definitely handling it better 0:09:32.720 --> 0:09:35.120 than most people. Yeah, yeah, but I know that the 0:09:35.720 --> 0:09:37.640 you know, it's interesting. There are all kind of creative 0:09:37.640 --> 0:09:41.400 solutions that educators are going to create, right and I 0:09:41.440 --> 0:09:45.080 guess to engage their students. I mean, you said in 0:09:45.400 --> 0:09:48.040 a recent column, I know of no parents, including those 0:09:48.080 --> 0:09:50.720 living and what are considered good school districts, who are 0:09:50.760 --> 0:09:55.319 happy with their children's online classes terrible. So so what happens? 0:09:55.320 --> 0:09:57.760 I mean, what are the innovative ways you think that 0:09:58.280 --> 0:10:01.040 educators are going to be able to gauge? I don't 0:10:01.040 --> 0:10:03.480 think I think it teaches us that analog learning is 0:10:03.520 --> 0:10:05.360 so important. I mean, I think they've been trying with 0:10:05.400 --> 0:10:07.480 these zoom classes, but they're not engaging at all, and 0:10:07.520 --> 0:10:10.160 they're not They're trying. I have friends who are teachers 0:10:10.200 --> 0:10:12.319 and they're trying their best. Um, but I think it's 0:10:12.400 --> 0:10:15.240 very hard to engage people without the one on one that. 0:10:15.400 --> 0:10:17.360 That's what it shows to me, like that, it's some 0:10:17.400 --> 0:10:21.200 things are not able to be digitized, and this is 0:10:21.240 --> 0:10:23.320 one of them. You think education would have gotten a 0:10:23.320 --> 0:10:26.240 lot further. Um. I think for adults it's a little better. 0:10:26.320 --> 0:10:29.240 Tons of people are taking webinars and classes and learning 0:10:29.240 --> 0:10:32.040 to like, I don't know, like cut hair, but not 0:10:32.120 --> 0:10:34.600 just that, but like play the banjo and those those 0:10:34.679 --> 0:10:36.640 work okay because adults can take it. But I think 0:10:36.679 --> 0:10:38.400 young kids you really need to engage them on a 0:10:38.440 --> 0:10:40.440 one to one level. And I don't know, it just 0:10:40.520 --> 0:10:45.440 it makes me think that, like how good are schools really? Right? 0:10:45.559 --> 0:10:47.360 And but I think they have to be one on 0:10:47.440 --> 0:10:50.880 one and have that social element. Are you surprised, care though, 0:10:50.920 --> 0:10:53.600 that schools didn't adapt more? You know, you have the 0:10:53.640 --> 0:10:56.600 con Academy. You would think that they would be a 0:10:56.600 --> 0:11:00.240 little more forward thinking about digital learning in general and 0:11:00.640 --> 0:11:04.160 perhaps come up with ways to make it more engaging 0:11:04.240 --> 0:11:06.400 and more effective. I guess yeah, But think about the 0:11:06.400 --> 0:11:07.960 equipment you need if you want to do VR. That 0:11:07.960 --> 0:11:09.880 would be the solution. Right now. First of all, a 0:11:09.960 --> 0:11:12.440 lot of kids are getting completely lost. Your talk about 0:11:12.480 --> 0:11:16.640 digital divide. It's crazy. It's crazy, like not having internet access, 0:11:16.720 --> 0:11:18.760 not having a great device, not just they're just not 0:11:18.880 --> 0:11:22.120 going to school. They're not which is even worse. You know, Commmit, now, 0:11:22.280 --> 0:11:24.720 if you get into the VR area, the equipment, you know, 0:11:24.760 --> 0:11:26.760 it's just not there. It's just not there. And it's 0:11:26.760 --> 0:11:29.800 not it's pricey, it's it doesn't work that well, that 0:11:29.840 --> 0:11:32.080 would be the I suppose the thing. But what what 0:11:32.160 --> 0:11:35.800 does How do you do an engaged curriculum on a screen? 0:11:36.240 --> 0:11:38.120 You know, you can do it with entertainment, you can 0:11:38.160 --> 0:11:40.120 do it with chat. But I don't think it translates 0:11:40.160 --> 0:11:43.200 necessarily because they've been working on educational stuff for a 0:11:43.200 --> 0:11:45.319 long time online and they thought it was gonna take 0:11:45.360 --> 0:11:48.640 over everything, and I just I just don't I don't know. Well, 0:11:48.720 --> 0:11:52.640 let's talk about business. Um, obviously this has upended everything, 0:11:52.720 --> 0:11:55.319 so we're going to break it down. First. Big tech, 0:11:55.679 --> 0:11:59.560 your confident places I read like Apple, Facebook, and of 0:11:59.559 --> 0:12:02.680 course Amazon are going to survive, and I guess, in 0:12:02.679 --> 0:12:06.120 the case of Amazon, even thrive. They're all I think 0:12:06.160 --> 0:12:08.839 you talked about how they were larded. I like that 0:12:08.960 --> 0:12:13.360 word used in your column, larded with enough cash. So 0:12:13.679 --> 0:12:16.160 what they're too big to fail? Uh, they're not too 0:12:16.200 --> 0:12:17.920 They're not too big to all. They're too rich to fail. 0:12:17.920 --> 0:12:20.079 Why should they fail? They have so much money, Like, 0:12:20.160 --> 0:12:22.320 that's the the issue. They have all this money. Some 0:12:22.360 --> 0:12:24.960 of them are doing rather well, like the Amazon's stock 0:12:25.120 --> 0:12:28.400 is really is doing really well because they're providing services 0:12:28.480 --> 0:12:30.880 right now and everyone else can't keep up. That's the 0:12:30.920 --> 0:12:34.640 real issue. Is that already, except it's already accelerating trends 0:12:34.640 --> 0:12:38.000 that have started to happen. Retails already been under duress 0:12:38.080 --> 0:12:41.880 from companies like mostly Amazon essentially, So now it's not 0:12:42.000 --> 0:12:43.960 they're not under dress. They're under darressed and they've been 0:12:44.000 --> 0:12:46.679 closed and they're financially at a disadvantage, and they're not 0:12:46.720 --> 0:12:49.080 getting VC money. They're not getting like you know, the 0:12:49.160 --> 0:12:52.960 Delhi or any stores are not getting that. And so 0:12:52.960 --> 0:12:55.480 so the big companies, not just Amazon, by the Walmart 0:12:55.600 --> 0:12:57.640 is going to be doing really well because you can 0:12:57.679 --> 0:13:00.280 go to Walmart's nown essential store, but they also sell 0:13:00.440 --> 0:13:03.000 like as Stephanie Rule just point out surfboards, like, so 0:13:03.080 --> 0:13:06.240 what happens to the surfboard guy? Right? He can't? You know, 0:13:06.400 --> 0:13:08.880 everybody gets used to and doing well in this time here, 0:13:08.920 --> 0:13:11.040 and they don't have these cushions that these tech companies have. 0:13:11.280 --> 0:13:13.520 They don't have this technology that the tech companies have 0:13:13.640 --> 0:13:16.760 to really figure it out. And so say your Google 0:13:16.840 --> 0:13:20.320 and Facebook and advertising, they're only going to get stronger. 0:13:20.440 --> 0:13:22.520 Well everybody else look at their layoffs and all the 0:13:22.520 --> 0:13:24.960 media companies. Google has maybe a little bit of a 0:13:25.000 --> 0:13:27.160 downturn in the advertising, but when this is over, where 0:13:27.160 --> 0:13:29.760 people going to go? Google and Facebook? Which is why 0:13:29.800 --> 0:13:33.439 I assume the government's investigating. Well, also where's the government 0:13:33.440 --> 0:13:35.640 going to go to get cash? If you also write 0:13:36.120 --> 0:13:39.959 they're coming after those big, big industries, those big companies 0:13:40.000 --> 0:13:42.040 because they are so rich and they're going to be 0:13:42.120 --> 0:13:43.920 paying for a lot of the stuff that we need, 0:13:44.320 --> 0:13:46.600 right exactly, they're gonna be the company's making money. And 0:13:46.679 --> 0:13:49.240 so the issue is there's no how can you innovate 0:13:49.280 --> 0:13:52.320 and how can you keep small businesses alive in this environment? 0:13:52.320 --> 0:13:53.959 I think the government is doing a very good job 0:13:54.000 --> 0:13:55.960 of it. As you know, so many stories I mean, 0:13:56.040 --> 0:13:58.880 the amount of stories of misuse of funds there's going 0:13:58.920 --> 0:14:03.560 to be in newspaper for for years to come. Um 0:14:03.640 --> 0:14:06.120 and And I think the issue is that these companies 0:14:06.160 --> 0:14:08.880 they're they're not just rich, they're rich. There are they 0:14:08.880 --> 0:14:11.120 can put. Look at all the tech companies like Twitter 0:14:11.160 --> 0:14:14.320 told his companies employees just to stay home forever. You know, 0:14:14.360 --> 0:14:16.680 if you want to Google, they can work from home. 0:14:17.240 --> 0:14:19.560 Facebook they can work from home. It's not ideal, but 0:14:19.600 --> 0:14:23.320 they certainly have environments where that doesn't hinder their businesses. 0:14:24.440 --> 0:14:29.320 Big tech had recently been so scrutinized for monopolies, for 0:14:29.640 --> 0:14:34.440 uh tech addiction, for misinformation and all kinds of things. 0:14:34.800 --> 0:14:37.400 Now they're bigger fish to fry. So they are probably 0:14:37.520 --> 0:14:40.120 breathing a bit of a sigh of relief on that front, too, 0:14:40.120 --> 0:14:43.080 aren't they. Although you know, Bill Bill bar just was 0:14:43.120 --> 0:14:45.880 talking about that. There's two stories in the journal, and 0:14:45.920 --> 0:14:48.360 I think there are times about the Google being the 0:14:48.400 --> 0:14:51.720 case against Google moving forward, the investigation against Schoogle moving forward, 0:14:51.760 --> 0:14:54.200 and so this is an advertising and so I think 0:14:54.200 --> 0:14:55.760 it's that was a little bit of a shot across 0:14:55.800 --> 0:14:58.200 the bowl, like we haven't forgotten. I think the issue 0:14:58.240 --> 0:15:01.440 is there's less appetite in dis lative areas to do 0:15:01.720 --> 0:15:04.880 like privacy bill. You know, when they're doing these other things, 0:15:04.960 --> 0:15:07.160 they can't agree on lunch there, they can't agree. They 0:15:07.160 --> 0:15:09.920 can't agree on pandemic relief right, like think about it, 0:15:09.960 --> 0:15:11.920 Like they're not going to agree on what privacy is. 0:15:11.960 --> 0:15:15.160 Now that's said. Look, you have like Elizabeth Warren and 0:15:15.560 --> 0:15:20.320 Congresswomen up um AOC is working on this anti merger 0:15:20.360 --> 0:15:23.040 build during the pandemic. You've got Josh Holly over on 0:15:23.080 --> 0:15:26.240 the right working with Elizabeth Warren on the bigness of 0:15:26.280 --> 0:15:29.239 big text. So there are a lot of interesting coalitions 0:15:29.280 --> 0:15:33.720 forming around that. And they've used the pandemic to redeem themselves. 0:15:34.040 --> 0:15:36.280 You know, we're not we were we we got rid 0:15:36.320 --> 0:15:39.440 of those anti vaxers, we did this, we stopped misinformation 0:15:39.440 --> 0:15:42.520 about that. It only underscores that they can do it. 0:15:42.960 --> 0:15:45.120 And so when it comes to political stuff they don't 0:15:45.120 --> 0:15:46.480 do it. But here they've done it. So I think 0:15:46.520 --> 0:15:50.200 they're using it as a bid for um maybe we're 0:15:50.200 --> 0:15:52.880 not so bad. But even if they do good, doesn't 0:15:52.880 --> 0:15:55.400 mean they're not too big. And I think that that'll 0:15:55.440 --> 0:15:58.080 be their issue going forward. I mean, you you have 0:15:58.200 --> 0:16:01.000 been talking about some of these Darling's selfcon Valley, but 0:16:01.040 --> 0:16:03.840 they're they're facing challenges too. You know, we talked about 0:16:03.920 --> 0:16:07.440 Uber a little bit, um Airbnb. There there's so many 0:16:07.440 --> 0:16:11.240 who are facing challenges, and obviously, as a marketer, i'd 0:16:11.240 --> 0:16:14.760 love to talk about, you know, perception, brand perception. What 0:16:15.040 --> 0:16:18.440 is happening in press that affects those businesses. What are 0:16:18.480 --> 0:16:20.520 your thoughts? Well, I think of the Uber ads, they're 0:16:21.200 --> 0:16:23.200 I'm glad you're not driving. I'm glad you know, It's 0:16:23.240 --> 0:16:25.280 like it's like sort of Wendy saying I'm glad you're 0:16:25.320 --> 0:16:27.360 not eating and eating it's not such a hot thing. 0:16:27.520 --> 0:16:29.520 I was fascinating, you know, there was that whole thing 0:16:29.560 --> 0:16:31.720 together of all the words they use. Now you know, 0:16:31.760 --> 0:16:35.440 we're here to help family, hope, stay home, stay safe, 0:16:35.640 --> 0:16:38.200 We're here for you, We're here for you. Um. I 0:16:38.240 --> 0:16:41.560 was really fascinated by the Uber ones with the tinkling music. 0:16:43.720 --> 0:16:45.920 I'm not sure if it worked that I liked them 0:16:45.920 --> 0:16:47.760 any better. I don't know why they spent money on 0:16:47.760 --> 0:16:50.040 it telling me not to get in a car. I 0:16:50.040 --> 0:16:52.840 don't know what did you think? Well, it's it's it's 0:16:52.840 --> 0:16:56.080 actually funny because there are so many different ways to 0:16:56.320 --> 0:17:00.120 present the same idea, right, right, And and so what 0:17:00.200 --> 0:17:02.640 brands need to do is figure out actually how to 0:17:02.800 --> 0:17:06.040 just take that idea of comfort and make it sound 0:17:06.080 --> 0:17:08.919 like it's coming from them, but not also destroy your business, 0:17:09.040 --> 0:17:10.800 you know, on top of it. But what's the use 0:17:10.840 --> 0:17:12.760 of a marketing ad that says, please don't get in 0:17:12.760 --> 0:17:14.960 a car if you're a car rental, you know, a 0:17:14.960 --> 0:17:16.919 car sharing company. I just don't. I don't get it. 0:17:16.960 --> 0:17:19.000 I don't get I was sort of sort almost wrote 0:17:19.040 --> 0:17:22.000 to her because you're hating, was like, okay, alright, like 0:17:22.160 --> 0:17:25.760 please please don't do what we do. I also feel 0:17:25.800 --> 0:17:28.000 like there's so many of those ads going on now, 0:17:28.080 --> 0:17:30.840 you guys, they all kind of blur together. For me. 0:17:31.320 --> 0:17:34.400 Of course, they all wore my herd and I'm like, yeah, 0:17:34.840 --> 0:17:37.960 but I can't remember who's doing what. They all start 0:17:38.000 --> 0:17:41.119 to feel pretty duplicative to me, and and then I 0:17:41.160 --> 0:17:44.879 start feeling like you're just jumping on this band and 0:17:45.240 --> 0:17:47.760 kind of get turned off. Yeah, but that's the whole point, 0:17:48.240 --> 0:17:53.280 is that they should be melding and molding their conversation 0:17:53.560 --> 0:17:56.760 in this way, but affecting their own business, you know. 0:17:56.840 --> 0:17:59.399 So I would love an add that this sucks. We 0:17:59.440 --> 0:18:01.200 had a late pop all off and you're not getting 0:18:01.200 --> 0:18:03.720 in cars like, hey, come back to us when things 0:18:03.760 --> 0:18:05.680 are better, we'll give you. Everyone gets a mask or 0:18:05.760 --> 0:18:09.000 something that's that's more helpful for me what I don't know. 0:18:09.080 --> 0:18:12.200 I don't know. It's interesting that that uber is advertising. 0:18:12.280 --> 0:18:14.480 I didn't see one from Airbnb, which of course is 0:18:14.520 --> 0:18:17.480 really talk about a company that's really terrific, has a 0:18:17.520 --> 0:18:20.439 great product, and it's really strained at every aspect of 0:18:20.480 --> 0:18:23.000 their business. Was has set to go public? I mean, 0:18:23.000 --> 0:18:25.480 can you I'm interviewing Brian Chowsky later this week about that. 0:18:25.520 --> 0:18:28.600 But it's just like that one is really like what 0:18:28.640 --> 0:18:30.800 do you do? There's nothing to be said except you're 0:18:30.840 --> 0:18:34.040 in the wrong business at this moment in time. I 0:18:34.080 --> 0:18:36.680 think their eventually people will be fine. They'll be a vaccine. 0:18:36.720 --> 0:18:38.600 People will go back to it because it's a good product, 0:18:38.760 --> 0:18:41.080 right like you have the differential between the good products. 0:18:41.080 --> 0:18:43.800 It's just because of this particular pandemic and the actual 0:18:43.880 --> 0:18:47.199 structural things those there's not cyclical, they're sort of pandemical. 0:18:47.840 --> 0:18:50.560 And then there's things like gyms that you may not 0:18:50.640 --> 0:18:52.760 go back to. A movie theaters is a really good thing. 0:18:53.040 --> 0:18:55.600 Movie theaters are already on the down swing, right except 0:18:55.600 --> 0:18:58.320 for like an Alamo drafthouse that had an experiential kind 0:18:58.320 --> 0:19:02.080 of element to it, and so movie theaters are already 0:19:02.080 --> 0:19:03.800 on the downtown. That's why you're seeing all these stories 0:19:03.800 --> 0:19:06.400 whether Amazon's going to buy a MC or Disney would 0:19:06.440 --> 0:19:09.119 buy one of them, because they don't matter anymore, like 0:19:09.160 --> 0:19:11.920 they don't there. It's it's an opportunity for those companies 0:19:11.920 --> 0:19:15.399 and it's a business that people stopped doing, and so 0:19:15.480 --> 0:19:17.480 that's the issue. Are you a structural problem. You have 0:19:17.520 --> 0:19:19.359 a structural problem where people aren't doing the same thing 0:19:19.400 --> 0:19:22.480 with with retail like there was just was a specialties. 0:19:22.800 --> 0:19:26.200 Specialties was a fifties store. Is not a huge business, 0:19:26.400 --> 0:19:27.960 but they have a lot in San Francisco. It started 0:19:27.960 --> 0:19:30.480 in San Francisco, great sandwich store. It was a great chain. 0:19:30.520 --> 0:19:33.040 It was doing great. It's closing down. It doesn't have 0:19:33.080 --> 0:19:35.320 the financial resources to stay in business, and it doesn't 0:19:35.320 --> 0:19:37.480 know when people are going to be the whole structural 0:19:37.560 --> 0:19:40.119 change of people being at the office. It's not just 0:19:40.200 --> 0:19:41.840 for the pandemic. People are going to be going to 0:19:41.880 --> 0:19:45.160 the office as much and therefore the businesses all around it. 0:19:45.560 --> 0:19:48.760 Parking garages, delis things like that, they're all going to 0:19:48.840 --> 0:19:51.720 be impacted, and so I think people don't think about 0:19:51.760 --> 0:19:56.760 that the community around these companies and how much they'll 0:19:56.800 --> 0:20:00.480 be hurting. But let's just go through some other sectors. Kara, 0:20:00.920 --> 0:20:03.679 what about the future of airlines and travel and the 0:20:03.680 --> 0:20:07.280 whole leisure kind of vacation industry. Well, I'm always fascinated 0:20:07.320 --> 0:20:09.120 by There was a story that that cruises have open 0:20:09.160 --> 0:20:12.160 and there have never been more full, Like right, everyone's 0:20:12.200 --> 0:20:14.080 dying to it. So there is an element of people 0:20:14.080 --> 0:20:16.080 who take cruises are going to take cruises, and they've 0:20:16.080 --> 0:20:19.040