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Speaker 1: The moment you realized you were mistaking your kids for
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Speaker 1: search at career builder dot com. Hi everyone. I'm Katie
Speaker 1: Couric and I'm Bozma st. John and this is Back
Speaker 1: to Biz with Katie and Bose. So this is it.
Speaker 1: It's our first episode of Back to Biz. We've been
Speaker 1: talking about it for some time now, and it's really happening.
Speaker 1: I'm super jazz to get this party started. I know
Speaker 1: me too, and it feels like it's the perfect time
Speaker 1: to do it. Um. I'm still looking forward to all
Speaker 1: the conversations that we're gonna have here. You know, we've
Speaker 1: got ten episodes to interview leaders in business, tech, public policy,
Speaker 1: as well as entrepreneurs, pop culture, trailblazers and just all
Speaker 1: around huge big thinkers. Well, and we could really use
Speaker 1: some big thing ers at this moment in our nation's history. Bows,
Speaker 1: and we're gonna be talking to them about how they're
Speaker 1: responding to these big societal shifts the pandemic has brought about,
Speaker 1: about how they're adjusting to this new way of life,
Speaker 1: often not just through adaptation, but innovation too. In many ways, Bose,
Speaker 1: I think this has been a terrible thing, but it's
Speaker 1: also a time for reassessing, recalibrating, and in some cases,
Speaker 1: I think rethinking everything that's right that's right. And our
Speaker 1: first guests I think really sets the tone for this
Speaker 1: series as someone who's forward thinking and innovative and just
Speaker 1: all around so cool. She's so in demand, you know,
Speaker 1: I mean, she's a tech journalist. Kara Swisher, Kara, al Right,
Speaker 1: I'm here, Yeah, I'm here, I'm here here. Hold on,
Speaker 1: Oh are you cranky? No, not cranky. I'm tired. I've
Speaker 1: had days. Let me get my hold little one. Sec
Speaker 1: here you are, and the sunglasses, the aviators come on,
Speaker 1: I mean gonna I'm gonna sleep during the internet. Wait,
Speaker 1: let me be the picture in your Kara is I
Speaker 1: think the personification of the modern media Maven and very
Speaker 1: good at alliteration too, because bos this woman is everywhere.
Speaker 1: She's a columnist for The New York Times. She's founder
Speaker 1: and editor at large of the tech site Recode. When
Speaker 1: she's not writing, she's podcasting, the co host of the
Speaker 1: award winning Pivot podcast. She's the host of Recode Decode,
Speaker 1: and she's also cooking up a new podcast for The
Speaker 1: New York Times, which is still unnamed right now, that's
Speaker 1: set to release this fall. I don't know how she
Speaker 1: does it. And on top of that, she's a mother
Speaker 1: of three, two high schoolers and a relatively new baby.
Speaker 1: She's quarantining in Washington, d C. I love Kara. She's
Speaker 1: such a badass, and more importantly, bows she thinks I'm
Speaker 1: a badass. But I know you got to know Kara
Speaker 1: recently in one of your latest gigs, right, yeah, that's right.
Speaker 1: Well you know what, We're about to be a trio
Speaker 1: of badasses. I'll tell you that because I've known Kara
Speaker 1: for some time. I met her at first when I
Speaker 1: was the chief brand officer at Uber and I had
Speaker 1: just stepped into a big pile of it, and she
Speaker 1: wanted me on stage at Recode, which is our conference.
Speaker 1: It was September sev and I went in really prepared
Speaker 1: to face the fire. You know, I knew she was
Speaker 1: really going to give it to me. So I was
Speaker 1: prepared for Kara, But you know who I wasn't prepared
Speaker 1: for her Mama, her mother, who I met backstage before
Speaker 1: I even got on stage, and she gave it to
Speaker 1: me good. I mean, she was just giving me all
Speaker 1: the questions and Kara, Yes, Kara had to come and
Speaker 1: break us up. You know, I think she was probably
Speaker 1: stealing some of Kara's questions. So well, I guess the
Speaker 1: apple doesn't fall far from the tree, right, those That's
Speaker 1: exactly right, because I think Kara is an amazing journalist
Speaker 1: and she's really feared but also revered and that's a
Speaker 1: tough combination. And we thought that she was the perfect
Speaker 1: way to kick off our debut podcast together her. She
Speaker 1: has her finger on the pulse, not just a Silicon valley,
Speaker 1: but I think the business world in general, and the
Speaker 1: world of pop culture like you do, Bows right, and
Speaker 1: fashion because you know what, her affinity for aviators makes
Speaker 1: a lot more sense. Now I'll tell you that. Ye
Speaker 1: all right, last show or a movie that you loved.
Speaker 1: Oh god, there's so many um I think I liked
Speaker 1: um Oh gosh. That's while I was waiting for Top
Speaker 1: Gun Too, So I don't know what to say. I
Speaker 1: love Top Gun to. I was so excited for the
Speaker 1: sequel and Wonder Woman too. I know it sounds crazy,
Speaker 1: I'm a big Top Gun fan. Anyway, let's get to it,
Speaker 1: Kara Swisher. I am super excited because you are our
Speaker 1: debut guest on Bound Biz with Katie and Bows get
Speaker 1: it Bows. Oh my god, Like the pandemic has gotten
Speaker 1: to you. Katie, Oh my god, let me look at
Speaker 1: Let me look at your bookshelves for those Emmys and
Speaker 1: those Emmys back there. What's going on? Just if you Kara,
Speaker 1: just there, just but you and those know each other already,
Speaker 1: don't How did you guys get to know each other?
Speaker 1: Of all things? Arianna Huffington's introduced us um At at
Speaker 1: a graduation she was speaking at in San Francisco for
Speaker 1: a private girls school and and she, uh, she was
Speaker 1: she was hiring you to run marketing for or to
Speaker 1: do marketing for uber Um. And so we met there
Speaker 1: while Arianna was addressing the young lady the young rich
Speaker 1: ladies of San Francisco essentially, And I think your daughter
Speaker 1: went there eventually at some point we're going to do it,
Speaker 1: but then never moved up to Sanaa anyway. So we
Speaker 1: met and but at uber and I listened. She had
Speaker 1: nothing to do with the disaster that was uber. She
Speaker 1: tried her best, Uh, sort of got sucked into a
Speaker 1: really really toxic situation. I think that you came in
Speaker 1: post I think post when everything was already headed downhill exactly.
Speaker 1: But you know, it's like the I was telling Katie
Speaker 1: that you were the first person that I talked to
Speaker 1: when I decided to leave. Ah, oh, that's rightly. I
Speaker 1: wrote the story inside. Yeah, you know interesting. I talked
Speaker 1: to Francis Free the other day, who was also another
Speaker 1: pry excuse me the other day when who was another person?
Speaker 1: It was a Harvard Business School professor. You know, all
Speaker 1: these women came in to try to clean up that mess,
Speaker 1: and uh, and we're not successful. And of course Dark
Speaker 1: Coaster Shaw Heat today had to lay off I think
Speaker 1: three thousand people. It's some enormous number of people that
Speaker 1: people have been laid off, and they're closing down some
Speaker 1: businesses like freight. Um. It was at the time then
Speaker 1: everything was going great, and there was it was a
Speaker 1: culture problem that was born of the CEO, Travis klink
Speaker 1: and and the people he hired and trying to turning
Speaker 1: around a success, turning around a success into toxicity. And
Speaker 1: so you were trying to do that, and to me,
Speaker 1: it was like putting lipstick on I don't know what,
Speaker 1: on a coronavirus or something. It was just not good.
Speaker 1: That's not to make a joke about, but really you
Speaker 1: were trying to market something that had a fundamental issue
Speaker 1: with its business and now of course it's because of
Speaker 1: real issues of health and other things. Well, we're excited
Speaker 1: to talk to you, Kara, because a lot of the
Speaker 1: columns you've been writing in the New York Times or
Speaker 1: precisely some of the things we want to address as
Speaker 1: we go about this quote unquote new normal or new
Speaker 1: new future is ray Dalia said, that's right. That's really
Speaker 1: how how technology has been affected and how technology can
Speaker 1: help or in cases when it hurts. But before we
Speaker 1: talk about business, I know we wanted to talk about education. Sure, yes, well,
Speaker 1: I mean that's the thing. I mean, we're all adjusting, right.
Speaker 1: You mentioned you have a you know, kids who are
Speaker 1: looking towards graduation, et cetera. What what do you think
Speaker 1: is going to happen? Um? In terms of college, I
Speaker 1: mean virtual college or you thinking of gap years? Like
Speaker 1: what what do we do or what does what does
Speaker 1: your your child do? I'm leaving it up to him.
Speaker 1: He's gotten into two schools and he's gonna be going
Speaker 1: to n y U and so of course that's hot
Speaker 1: spots Central um. And I don't know. I'm going to
Speaker 1: leave it up to him. He every every day is different.
Speaker 1: He's like, I don't know if I want to do
Speaker 1: school on zoom. I think it's gonna gonna have to
Speaker 1: and there's gonna be definitely different. It's not gonna be
Speaker 1: the freshman experience that that everybody got to have. Um,
Speaker 1: And so I'm going to leave it up to him.
Speaker 1: And although I don't know what schools are going to
Speaker 1: do in terms of everybody taking a gap yere people
Speaker 1: take a gap year, that changes all the dynamics to
Speaker 1: the school. UM. So I'm going to let him decide.
Speaker 1: He's a he's a fine young man and he will
Speaker 1: figure out what he wants. He's definitely handling it better
Speaker 1: than most people. Yeah, yeah, but I know that the
Speaker 1: you know, it's interesting. There are all kind of creative
Speaker 1: solutions that educators are going to create, right and I
Speaker 1: guess to engage their students. I mean, you said in
Speaker 1: a recent column, I know of no parents, including those
Speaker 1: living and what are considered good school districts, who are
Speaker 1: happy with their children's online classes terrible. So so what happens?
Speaker 1: I mean, what are the innovative ways you think that
Speaker 1: educators are going to be able to gauge? I don't
Speaker 1: think I think it teaches us that analog learning is
Speaker 1: so important. I mean, I think they've been trying with
Speaker 1: these zoom classes, but they're not engaging at all, and
Speaker 1: they're not They're trying. I have friends who are teachers
Speaker 1: and they're trying their best. Um, but I think it's
Speaker 1: very hard to engage people without the one on one that.
Speaker 1: That's what it shows to me, like that, it's some
Speaker 1: things are not able to be digitized, and this is
Speaker 1: one of them. You think education would have gotten a
Speaker 1: lot further. Um. I think for adults it's a little better.
Speaker 1: Tons of people are taking webinars and classes and learning
Speaker 1: to like, I don't know, like cut hair, but not
Speaker 1: just that, but like play the banjo and those those
Speaker 1: work okay because adults can take it. But I think
Speaker 1: young kids you really need to engage them on a
Speaker 1: one to one level. And I don't know, it just
Speaker 1: it makes me think that, like how good are schools really? Right?
Speaker 1: And but I think they have to be one on
Speaker 1: one and have that social element. Are you surprised, care though,
Speaker 1: that schools didn't adapt more? You know, you have the
Speaker 1: con Academy. You would think that they would be a
Speaker 1: little more forward thinking about digital learning in general and
Speaker 1: perhaps come up with ways to make it more engaging
Speaker 1: and more effective. I guess yeah, But think about the
Speaker 1: equipment you need if you want to do VR. That
Speaker 1: would be the solution. Right now. First of all, a
Speaker 1: lot of kids are getting completely lost. Your talk about
Speaker 1: digital divide. It's crazy. It's crazy, like not having internet access,
Speaker 1: not having a great device, not just they're just not
Speaker 1: going to school. They're not which is even worse. You know, Commmit, now,
Speaker 1: if you get into the VR area, the equipment, you know,
Speaker 1: it's just not there. It's just not there. And it's
Speaker 1: not it's pricey, it's it doesn't work that well, that
Speaker 1: would be the I suppose the thing. But what what
Speaker 1: does How do you do an engaged curriculum on a screen?
Speaker 1: You know, you can do it with entertainment, you can
Speaker 1: do it with chat. But I don't think it translates
Speaker 1: necessarily because they've been working on educational stuff for a
Speaker 1: long time online and they thought it was gonna take
Speaker 1: over everything, and I just I just don't I don't know. Well,
Speaker 1: let's talk about business. Um, obviously this has upended everything,
Speaker 1: so we're going to break it down. First. Big tech,
Speaker 1: your confident places I read like Apple, Facebook, and of
Speaker 1: course Amazon are going to survive, and I guess, in
Speaker 1: the case of Amazon, even thrive. They're all I think
Speaker 1: you talked about how they were larded. I like that
Speaker 1: word used in your column, larded with enough cash. So
Speaker 1: what they're too big to fail? Uh, they're not too
Speaker 1: They're not too big to all. They're too rich to fail.
Speaker 1: Why should they fail? They have so much money, Like,
Speaker 1: that's the the issue. They have all this money. Some
Speaker 1: of them are doing rather well, like the Amazon's stock
Speaker 1: is really is doing really well because they're providing services
Speaker 1: right now and everyone else can't keep up. That's the
Speaker 1: real issue. Is that already, except it's already accelerating trends
Speaker 1: that have started to happen. Retails already been under duress
Speaker 1: from companies like mostly Amazon essentially, So now it's not
Speaker 1: they're not under dress. They're under darressed and they've been
Speaker 1: closed and they're financially at a disadvantage, and they're not
Speaker 1: getting VC money. They're not getting like you know, the
Speaker 1: Delhi or any stores are not getting that. And so
Speaker 1: so the big companies, not just Amazon, by the Walmart
Speaker 1: is going to be doing really well because you can
Speaker 1: go to Walmart's nown essential store, but they also sell
Speaker 1: like as Stephanie Rule just point out surfboards, like, so
Speaker 1: what happens to the surfboard guy? Right? He can't? You know,
Speaker 1: everybody gets used to and doing well in this time here,
Speaker 1: and they don't have these cushions that these tech companies have.
Speaker 1: They don't have this technology that the tech companies have
Speaker 1: to really figure it out. And so say your Google
Speaker 1: and Facebook and advertising, they're only going to get stronger.
Speaker 1: Well everybody else look at their layoffs and all the
Speaker 1: media companies. Google has maybe a little bit of a
Speaker 1: downturn in the advertising, but when this is over, where
Speaker 1: people going to go? Google and Facebook? Which is why
Speaker 1: I assume the government's investigating. Well, also where's the government
Speaker 1: going to go to get cash? If you also write
Speaker 1: they're coming after those big, big industries, those big companies
Speaker 1: because they are so rich and they're going to be
Speaker 1: paying for a lot of the stuff that we need,
Speaker 1: right exactly, they're gonna be the company's making money. And
Speaker 1: so the issue is there's no how can you innovate
Speaker 1: and how can you keep small businesses alive in this environment?
Speaker 1: I think the government is doing a very good job
Speaker 1: of it. As you know, so many stories I mean,
Speaker 1: the amount of stories of misuse of funds there's going
Speaker 1: to be in newspaper for for years to come. Um
Speaker 1: and And I think the issue is that these companies
Speaker 1: they're they're not just rich, they're rich. There are they
Speaker 1: can put. Look at all the tech companies like Twitter
Speaker 1: told his companies employees just to stay home forever. You know,
Speaker 1: if you want to Google, they can work from home.
Speaker 1: Facebook they can work from home. It's not ideal, but
Speaker 1: they certainly have environments where that doesn't hinder their businesses.
Speaker 1: Big tech had recently been so scrutinized for monopolies, for
Speaker 1: uh tech addiction, for misinformation and all kinds of things.
Speaker 1: Now they're bigger fish to fry. So they are probably
Speaker 1: breathing a bit of a sigh of relief on that front, too,
Speaker 1: aren't they. Although you know, Bill Bill bar just was
Speaker 1: talking about that. There's two stories in the journal, and
Speaker 1: I think there are times about the Google being the
Speaker 1: case against Google moving forward, the investigation against Schoogle moving forward,
Speaker 1: and so this is an advertising and so I think
Speaker 1: it's that was a little bit of a shot across
Speaker 1: the bowl, like we haven't forgotten. I think the issue
Speaker 1: is there's less appetite in dis lative areas to do
Speaker 1: like privacy bill. You know, when they're doing these other things,
Speaker 1: they can't agree on lunch there, they can't agree. They
Speaker 1: can't agree on pandemic relief right, like think about it,
Speaker 1: Like they're not going to agree on what privacy is.
Speaker 1: Now that's said. Look, you have like Elizabeth Warren and
Speaker 1: Congresswomen up um AOC is working on this anti merger
Speaker 1: build during the pandemic. You've got Josh Holly over on
Speaker 1: the right working with Elizabeth Warren on the bigness of
Speaker 1: big text. So there are a lot of interesting coalitions
Speaker 1: forming around that. And they've used the pandemic to redeem themselves.
Speaker 1: You know, we're not we were we we got rid
Speaker 1: of those anti vaxers, we did this, we stopped misinformation
Speaker 1: about that. It only underscores that they can do it.
Speaker 1: And so when it comes to political stuff they don't
Speaker 1: do it. But here they've done it. So I think
Speaker 1: they're using it as a bid for um maybe we're
Speaker 1: not so bad. But even if they do good, doesn't
Speaker 1: mean they're not too big. And I think that that'll
Speaker 1: be their issue going forward. I mean, you you have
Speaker 1: been talking about some of these Darling's selfcon Valley, but
Speaker 1: they're they're facing challenges too. You know, we talked about
Speaker 1: Uber a little bit, um Airbnb. There there's so many
Speaker 1: who are facing challenges, and obviously, as a marketer, i'd
Speaker 1: love to talk about, you know, perception, brand perception. What
Speaker 1: is happening in press that affects those businesses. What are
Speaker 1: your thoughts? Well, I think of the Uber ads, they're
Speaker 1: I'm glad you're not driving. I'm glad you know, It's
Speaker 1: like it's like sort of Wendy saying I'm glad you're
Speaker 1: not eating and eating it's not such a hot thing.
Speaker 1: I was fascinating, you know, there was that whole thing
Speaker 1: together of all the words they use. Now you know,
Speaker 1: we're here to help family, hope, stay home, stay safe,
Speaker 1: We're here for you, We're here for you. Um. I
Speaker 1: was really fascinated by the Uber ones with the tinkling music.
Speaker 1: I'm not sure if it worked that I liked them
Speaker 1: any better. I don't know why they spent money on
Speaker 1: it telling me not to get in a car. I
Speaker 1: don't know what did you think? Well, it's it's it's
Speaker 1: actually funny because there are so many different ways to
Speaker 1: present the same idea, right, right, And and so what
Speaker 1: brands need to do is figure out actually how to
Speaker 1: just take that idea of comfort and make it sound
Speaker 1: like it's coming from them, but not also destroy your business,
Speaker 1: you know, on top of it. But what's the use
Speaker 1: of a marketing ad that says, please don't get in
Speaker 1: a car if you're a car rental, you know, a
Speaker 1: car sharing company. I just don't. I don't get it.
Speaker 1: I don't get I was sort of sort almost wrote
Speaker 1: to her because you're hating, was like, okay, alright, like
Speaker 1: please please don't do what we do. I also feel
Speaker 1: like there's so many of those ads going on now,
Speaker 1: you guys, they all kind of blur together. For me.
Speaker 1: Of course, they all wore my herd and I'm like, yeah,
Speaker 1: but I can't remember who's doing what. They all start
Speaker 1: to feel pretty duplicative to me, and and then I
Speaker 1: start feeling like you're just jumping on this band and
Speaker 1: kind of get turned off. Yeah, but that's the whole point,
Speaker 1: is that they should be melding and molding their conversation
Speaker 1: in this way, but affecting their own business, you know.
Speaker 1: So I would love an add that this sucks. We
Speaker 1: had a late pop all off and you're not getting
Speaker 1: in cars like, hey, come back to us when things
Speaker 1: are better, we'll give you. Everyone gets a mask or
Speaker 1: something that's that's more helpful for me what I don't know.
Speaker 1: I don't know. It's interesting that that uber is advertising.
Speaker 1: I didn't see one from Airbnb, which of course is
Speaker 1: really talk about a company that's really terrific, has a
Speaker 1: great product, and it's really strained at every aspect of
Speaker 1: their business. Was has set to go public? I mean,
Speaker 1: can you I'm interviewing Brian Chowsky later this week about that.
Speaker 1: But it's just like that one is really like what
Speaker 1: do you do? There's nothing to be said except you're
Speaker 1: in the wrong business at this moment in time. I
Speaker 1: think their eventually people will be fine. They'll be a vaccine.
Speaker 1: People will go back to it because it's a good product,
Speaker 1: right like you have the differential between the good products.
Speaker 1: It's just because of this particular pandemic and the actual
Speaker 1: structural things those there's not cyclical, they're sort of pandemical.
Speaker 1: And then there's things like gyms that you may not
Speaker 1: go back to. A movie theaters is a really good thing.
Speaker 1: Movie theaters are already on the down swing, right except
Speaker 1: for like an Alamo drafthouse that had an experiential kind
Speaker 1: of element to it, and so movie theaters are already
Speaker 1: on the downtown. That's why you're seeing all these stories
Speaker 1: whether Amazon's going to buy a MC or Disney would
Speaker 1: buy one of them, because they don't matter anymore, like
Speaker 1: they don't there. It's it's an opportunity for those companies
Speaker 1: and it's a business that people stopped doing, and so
Speaker 1: that's the issue. Are you a structural problem. You have
Speaker 1: a structural problem where people aren't doing the same thing
Speaker 1: with with retail like there was just was a specialties.
Speaker 1: Specialties was a fifties store. Is not a huge business,
Speaker 1: but they have a lot in San Francisco. It started
Speaker 1: in San Francisco, great sandwich store. It was a great chain.
Speaker 1: It was doing great. It's closing down. It doesn't have
Speaker 1: the financial resources to stay in business, and it doesn't
Speaker 1: know when people are going to be the whole structural
Speaker 1: change of people being at the office. It's not just
Speaker 1: for the pandemic. People are going to be going to
Speaker 1: the office as much and therefore the businesses all around it.
Speaker 1: Parking garages, delis things like that, they're all going to
Speaker 1: be impacted, and so I think people don't think about
Speaker 1: that the community around these companies and how much they'll
Speaker 1: be hurting. But let's just go through some other sectors. Kara,
Speaker 1: what about the future of airlines and travel and the
Speaker 1: whole leisure kind of vacation industry. Well, I'm always fascinated
Speaker 1: by There was a story that that cruises have open
Speaker 1: and there have never been more full, Like right, everyone's
Speaker 1: dying to it. So there is an element of people
Speaker 1: who take cruises are going to take cruises, and they've
Speaker 1: got to just put in practices into place that are
Speaker 1: going to keep people safer because you know, in this
Speaker 1: whole thing, the whole the whole idea of what's happened
Speaker 1: here is analog has struck back pretty hard, and we
Speaker 1: realize how much analog stuff we do. I don't think
Speaker 1: people are suddenly not going to be on planes. There's
Speaker 1: just gonna be different practices going on planes are gonna
Speaker 1: be much more aware of things. And the person who
Speaker 1: was on your plane that was always marrying a mask
Speaker 1: isn't weird anymore, right, And maybe they'll hand them out
Speaker 1: and they'll have Jet Blue on the front or whatever
Speaker 1: the heck they'll have. But I think it's like if
Speaker 1: if you were I don't know if you're old in
Speaker 1: the buzz, but I know Katie and I are. When
Speaker 1: we used to go. When I was a kid, we
Speaker 1: used to go through airports right to the gate if
Speaker 1: there was no security. Like I was telling my kid that,
Speaker 1: I was trying to make them feel better. Of course,
Speaker 1: it didn't about not being in school. I was like, oh,
Speaker 1: what we used to go. Things change and they don't
Speaker 1: go back, and so we had security. Used to walk
Speaker 1: through the gates. Then we had a level of security.
Speaker 1: Now we have enormous security. Over time, it's the same
Speaker 1: thing with it. It's going to be a different experience
Speaker 1: and everyone will adjust to it. You'll get on later,
Speaker 1: you'll get on. It'll be slower, you'll have masks, there
Speaker 1: might be you know, all kinds of things. Now. Interestingly, airlines,
Speaker 1: they flow the air pretty quickly in those things, so
Speaker 1: I think people will feel better. We'll go back to
Speaker 1: that much quicker than you think. Can I just mention
Speaker 1: one thing you guys on airlines while we're on this topic,
Speaker 1: I've heard about these flights where they're packed in like sardines,
Speaker 1: And I'm like, what what is going on here? Why
Speaker 1: aren't they taking this more seriously? And yes, I've heard
Speaker 1: about the air recirculating too, but it seems to me
Speaker 1: that they're not taking proper precautions. What is that all about?
Speaker 1: If they want to get people back? Right? So they
Speaker 1: so that because these loads, when they load these airlines,
Speaker 1: they should have these middle seats empty. Even then though
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, Like you can do all
Speaker 1: you want, there's people in an enclosed space and this
Speaker 1: is like, hello, hello virus, that kind of thing, even
Speaker 1: when there's just a regular virus or a cold, everybody
Speaker 1: get Yet You've been on lots of planes, you know that.
Speaker 1: And so I think it'll be really interesting to see
Speaker 1: how they're going to play it. I think probably people
Speaker 1: will go back to it's just at a different level
Speaker 1: and they can find different reasons not to fly. And again,
Speaker 1: digital means have made it so you don't have to.
Speaker 1: Like I was talking to a big broadcast network. You've
Speaker 1: worked for all of them? Is that correct? I? Okay,
Speaker 1: thank goodness, Okay, that wasn't that one, but it was
Speaker 1: one of the ones you work for, Katie, And they
Speaker 1: were talking about those those those upfronts that they would
Speaker 1: go to and stuff. And this guy was like, Oh,
Speaker 1: we'd pay a lot of money. We fly first class,
Speaker 1: we get in the town cars, we go to the hotels,
Speaker 1: we've had the dinners. You've been to a million of those.
Speaker 1: And he's like, we did it all in two hours
Speaker 1: on the phone, like the decisions it needed to be made,
Speaker 1: and so why would we do it that way again?
Speaker 1: Why would we spend all that money again? It's like
Speaker 1: the three martini lunch. Yeah, right, and they that stopped
Speaker 1: and it was replaced by something else, And so I
Speaker 1: think that but will begin to reconsider. If you're not
Speaker 1: a business person, you're not reconsidering all costs and thinking
Speaker 1: about what you can digitize, you're not really good business person.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, I mean, but speaking of the three martini lunch,
Speaker 1: what happens to restaurants? You know, what happens to that
Speaker 1: decimated dining experience? Even after you think yeah, because I
Speaker 1: think speaking of Uber, one of the bright spots has
Speaker 1: been Uber eats, right, and so what and they're talking
Speaker 1: there was rumors of them being buying Grubhub. Well, they
Speaker 1: would have of the delivery market in the United States,
Speaker 1: I'm not counting New York because there's so much delivery
Speaker 1: in New York and that's sort of a it's already
Speaker 1: a system in place most restaurants, but you know, they'd
Speaker 1: have their I think George ash would have, Uber would
Speaker 1: have that's a crazy amount of control over the market, right,
Speaker 1: And so people like that, like the delivery experience. If
Speaker 1: they that, they get around and get used to it,
Speaker 1: and so even if a small portion of it moves
Speaker 1: from going to a restaurant to using these availing themselves,
Speaker 1: that really can hit these restaurants hard. Um. And and
Speaker 1: you know you talked to a restaurant person, this was
Speaker 1: already a problem. These delivery fees that these companies take
Speaker 1: off the top, this is gonna kill them. Same thing
Speaker 1: with grocery stores. And after Amazon can deliver, if only
Speaker 1: a small amount of people now like delivery by by Amazon,
Speaker 1: they're gonna use it. People people start to get used
Speaker 1: to things, and so once it's it's I hate to
Speaker 1: say it, but it's been a real marketing event for
Speaker 1: things like streaming, like Disney streaming or um or anything.
Speaker 1: It's been a marketing event for for for a lot
Speaker 1: of these people because people get introduced to the product.
Speaker 1: I think. I think the restaurant business, though, care has
Speaker 1: got to come back. People, I mean, their social lives
Speaker 1: revolve around meeting friends at restaurants. Maybe not right away,
Speaker 1: but don't you think they didn't come back. I don't.
Speaker 1: I think it's gonna be. It's it's already been a tray.
Speaker 1: Same thing with retail. I mean certain retails certainly, but
Speaker 1: in general that any trends that were present are accelerated.
Speaker 1: And that's what you have to think about it. If
Speaker 1: it's accelerated, it's it's act. And then how by tech
Speaker 1: you're really you're really You could go around from industry
Speaker 1: to industry and look at this streaming entertainment like people
Speaker 1: have been using these look at Netflix never been more
Speaker 1: useful and people never been bigger usage. Now I think
Speaker 1: people are going to stay in those zones. And they
Speaker 1: were already doing home theaters, they were already the technology
Speaker 1: availed itself getting these screens and the ease of use
Speaker 1: and stuff like that. And so I do like Disney
Speaker 1: launching the streaming platform and speaking which Kevin Marriage is
Speaker 1: left to go to TikTok to b ceo, TikTok, those
Speaker 1: kind of things are going to do really well because
Speaker 1: this this stuff has people have gotten used to and
Speaker 1: are trying now. Not everything's gonna work. You saw Quimby.
Speaker 1: I was going to say, what happened to Quimby? But
Speaker 1: we'll see, We'll see. It's a lot of money spent.
Speaker 1: It's certainly they collect I think a hundred and thirty
Speaker 1: billion dollars. Uh, it's a lot of money. And it's
Speaker 1: a question they were hoping for commuters right that people
Speaker 1: were on. So that's the issue is that I don't
Speaker 1: think some of the product isn't good, and I think
Speaker 1: some of the product is quite good. And it's an
Speaker 1: interesting idea. It's just there's a lot of options out there. Well,
Speaker 1: let's talk about TikTok. Yeah. Yeah, because my daughter, I
Speaker 1: mean almost eleven year old, she has an account. She
Speaker 1: posts a video. Hell, I don't know, a hundred times
Speaker 1: a day she's begging me to join. I've seen so
Speaker 1: many of those videos, you know, these is TikTok. This
Speaker 1: is a TikTok. This is TikTok, and she loves it,
Speaker 1: you know. But also, I mean we've seen other platforms
Speaker 1: that are doing so well, like Zoom, you know, we've
Speaker 1: been thinking about that and how much that's increase in use.
Speaker 1: So what about those platforms is as ways to recover
Speaker 1: maybe some of the central company, And I think it's
Speaker 1: going to fall off once this is over. I don't
Speaker 1: think Zoom is good, and Zoom was under stress because
Speaker 1: of the privacy and security. I don't know if you've
Speaker 1: gotten zoom bomb, but I certainly did. I wanted to
Speaker 1: be Zoom. Let me just tell you. You do not
Speaker 1: want to be Zoom. Trust me. It was what detends
Speaker 1: what they're bombing me. They're never bombing it was good
Speaker 1: good porns. It's always real dirty gross porn. Okay, right,
Speaker 1: not cood point. We don't want that. We don't want.
Speaker 1: You know, you have to select your porn, Katie, as
Speaker 1: you know, as if I have a user of porn.
Speaker 1: I mean you have to choose it and to promise. Okay, anyway,
Speaker 1: let's are we too old to get on TikTok? No? No,
Speaker 1: you're wrong? Yes, Okay, you get the yes because it's
Speaker 1: not you're wrong. You're completely wrong. Tell me why. Oh
Speaker 1: my god, it's it's like when it's like when all
Speaker 1: the adults got on Facebook and ruined it. Now because
Speaker 1: it's so the algorithms are so good, you get the
Speaker 1: things you want to get, and so I don't think
Speaker 1: it's quite like that. I don't think it's so apparent
Speaker 1: they use algorithmic selection so well compared to everybody else,
Speaker 1: knowing what you want and feeding you what you want
Speaker 1: and so you can stay in your little zones. What
Speaker 1: I think is interesting. I've interviewed a lot of people
Speaker 1: and I think they did one podcast with Gary Vaynerchick
Speaker 1: and a lot of business people are trying out TikTok
Speaker 1: and so is There was a great story in the
Speaker 1: time to say about a vegan chef who was an
Speaker 1: actress who was sort of a didn't do very well
Speaker 1: and actress and now has been doing these lovely videos
Speaker 1: on TikTok and now she's a big hit shaded like
Speaker 1: so like there you see how it looks really thin.
Speaker 1: Now you've got a few strips, But you know what
Speaker 1: you want more than this? Do there because there should
Speaker 1: be business. You're gonna use some liquid smokes, you know.
Speaker 1: And look at Sarah Cooper, who's amazing. She's a she's
Speaker 1: a comic. She left Google. I had done a cod
Speaker 1: passed with her when she left Google to be a
Speaker 1: comic a long time ago, and now she does the
Speaker 1: Trump She does the Trump voice with her acting it out.
Speaker 1: It's wonderful and she's become like a real sensation. I
Speaker 1: think she's going to parlay that into something there because
Speaker 1: she's so talented. Not only that, but Gara there was
Speaker 1: also a Washington Post reporter who's doing critical reporting. He's
Speaker 1: kind of young, and he's getting younger people. He's for
Speaker 1: educating them, making them more knowledgeable, and really engaging them. Hello,
Speaker 1: old have you recently downloaded the op TikTok but you're
Speaker 1: not quite sure what it's for. Well, I'm here with
Speaker 1: a self proclaimed expert on TikTok, David Jorgenson. Dave, tell
Speaker 1: us what TikTok is. It's like a viral video app.
Speaker 1: And what is the or you page. It's kind of
Speaker 1: like your news feed. You're probably on it right now.
Speaker 1: And tell me why is the Washington Post on TikTok? Uh? So,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go with kar on this. Bows I think
Speaker 1: that business ignore TikTok at their own peril, and I
Speaker 1: think it's you know, I'm a big believer in you
Speaker 1: just have to be on as many platforms as you can.
Speaker 1: Mass media is now an oxymoron and you just have
Speaker 1: to consider aggregate viewers, aggregate listeners, you know, And I
Speaker 1: think Karra has done an incredible job at that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't thinking of TikTok all the time now after
Speaker 1: I did this interview with Karri v Intertrik, because he's
Speaker 1: doing advice, Like if you you could like there's no
Speaker 1: real there's there should be a really important business element
Speaker 1: giving business advice on TikTok. It's a much more flexible
Speaker 1: platform than in Instagram, which is sort of seen as
Speaker 1: entertainment right. TikTok is not yet formed, and so it
Speaker 1: can do a lot of things. You're listening to the
Speaker 1: debut episode of Back to Biz with Katie and Bows.
Speaker 1: When we return, Kara talks about how we all have
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Speaker 1: to Biz with Katie and Bows. Let's get back to it.
Speaker 1: Let's return to our conversation. With Kara Switcher. Of all
Speaker 1: things that this has shown is how many people are exposed,
Speaker 1: especially because of the gig economy, which was fueled by
Speaker 1: tech companies like Uber. Everybody, all of them use use contractors.
Speaker 1: And I think I had a really good podcast with
Speaker 1: Nicole Hannah Jones, who is who who did the sixteen
Speaker 1: nineteen projects. She writes about inequality for The New York Times,
Speaker 1: which was all about this idea of we call them
Speaker 1: essential workers now when in fact, before this we treated
Speaker 1: them as if they were not essential, not in essential
Speaker 1: in terms of how we paid them, or kind of
Speaker 1: healthcare or any kind of benefits. They're sacrificial workers then.
Speaker 1: And it creates this sort of with New York magazine
Speaker 1: called Rich Corona, Poor Corona. Right, there's these lords and
Speaker 1: the serfs, and we're seeing that. We're seeing that in
Speaker 1: real time with people who are not protected, and we've
Speaker 1: got to really start to think hard about focus on people,
Speaker 1: not corporations. And well, I guess the question is you
Speaker 1: talked all these big mockers. I mean, do you think
Speaker 1: they have the stomach and the will to say we're
Speaker 1: gonna start treating these essential workers better. You have had
Speaker 1: that nightmare story for Amazon. You know, Walmart workers didn't
Speaker 1: get mass for the longest time. I mean, do you
Speaker 1: think there's going to be a real shift in attitude? Well,
Speaker 1: look at that Amazon story was interesting because one of
Speaker 1: the stories I read was like they happened after Jess
Speaker 1: Bezos saw it and visited a warehouse, not until then.
Speaker 1: So I don't think they're in the presence of mind
Speaker 1: to think of these workers as anything but sacrificial. They're not.
Speaker 1: They haven't they do. The idea of what an employee
Speaker 1: is has to change right very drastically because in this
Speaker 1: economy a lot of people are contractors, and so what
Speaker 1: is an employee? Do they how do they get benefits?
Speaker 1: How do they get child childcare? Look at look at
Speaker 1: the issues around childcare right now. Anyone who has a
Speaker 1: young kids, no matter what they're they're monetary wealth right
Speaker 1: now unless you can force someone to work for you
Speaker 1: and fly them to I don't know, kirk Turks and
Speaker 1: cages wherever you live. Everyone is now understands the childcare
Speaker 1: crisis in this country because they don't have childcare all
Speaker 1: of a sudden, And I think that's the kind of
Speaker 1: thing we have to think about these workers is that
Speaker 1: they're not paid enough. They don't they aren't able to
Speaker 1: make a living wage, and we're taking we're feeling it
Speaker 1: is a tiny bit in in inconvenient ways. Yeah, but
Speaker 1: speaking of the employees, you know, this is such an
Speaker 1: interesting topic around you know, sacrificial workers. By the way,
Speaker 1: that just blew my mind with amazing I love it.
Speaker 1: A sacrificial workers. I'm going to use that from now
Speaker 1: on because that is absolutely the truth. Thing gets the
Speaker 1: center of it. Um, but you've talked about you know,
Speaker 1: w f H working from home right, and um, what
Speaker 1: that's going to be like? So what do you think
Speaker 1: of that? I mean, what what happens? Because Twitter right
Speaker 1: just announced that couple from home like indefinitely, what happens?
Speaker 1: How does that affect a lot of people can't work
Speaker 1: from home? They can't they have analog jobs, people who
Speaker 1: work for the m T A say, or people who
Speaker 1: you know, public transit, anyone who works delivery. Lots of
Speaker 1: people can't work from home. And so what are we
Speaker 1: gonna do for those people? You know, it's very it's
Speaker 1: easy for people knowledge workers to do this, you know,
Speaker 1: so Twitter like doesn't matter where they are doing their
Speaker 1: coding it doesn't that they have a they're not connection
Speaker 1: in their computer. They're just fine like that kind of thing.
Speaker 1: And so what we've got to think about that this
Speaker 1: country is is more than just knowledge or else we
Speaker 1: make everyone a knowledge worker, which isn't going to have right,
Speaker 1: you know. I mean it's a really interesting questions. How
Speaker 1: do we how do you work from home? And we
Speaker 1: do it in such a way that people can have
Speaker 1: good childcare, good health care um and and a good
Speaker 1: working wage. I mean, when they say they're going to
Speaker 1: give two more dollars to people for you know, combat pay, essentially,
Speaker 1: it's sort of that it's so insulting to me, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean. Like or teachers, how are they
Speaker 1: going to deal with not having been trained in technology
Speaker 1: and now having to teach courses and make them interesting.
Speaker 1: They're just sort of here's a zoom, like good luck,
Speaker 1: Like what like, excuse me? This is how we're educating
Speaker 1: our kids. And so I think I think we have
Speaker 1: to have a real public private partnership on this stuff,
Speaker 1: because look, this administration has been incompetent on every aspect.
Speaker 1: You can't I can't imagine they're thinking for the future
Speaker 1: of like what do we do next, you know, or
Speaker 1: how do we return? Who are you impressed by? I mean,
Speaker 1: if we ever needed some leader great leaders and and
Speaker 1: thoughtful leaders and thought leaders and all of the above,
Speaker 1: it's now. So who do you think is providing that
Speaker 1: kind of leadership, whether it's in the in the world
Speaker 1: of tech or outside of tech cacra. Well, you know,
Speaker 1: there's different people that have different voices. You know, Look,
Speaker 1: you can't help. But someone who was who I've been
Speaker 1: very tough on over the many years, Bill Gates, But
Speaker 1: I think they've been He's been really prescient about this
Speaker 1: thing and what are we gonna do next around healthcare?
Speaker 1: And his wife Melinda Gates is really interesting. I think
Speaker 1: I'm just thinking tech leaders. I think Mark bennie Off
Speaker 1: has been one of the most outspoken about the idea
Speaker 1: of compassionate capitalism and how to get there and how
Speaker 1: you have to you have to figure out a new
Speaker 1: ways of treating workers, um and creatively educating them and
Speaker 1: creatively caring for them. I think that he's talked about
Speaker 1: a lot of stuff. Um. You know, there's some politicians
Speaker 1: you can't help but admire. Elizabeth Warren. In terms of
Speaker 1: some of them, I think she's the only politician I'll
Speaker 1: tell you a big tech is nervous about the idea
Speaker 1: of Vice President Elizabeth Warren has got them wedding because
Speaker 1: you know, she's she's super thoughtful about what we need
Speaker 1: to do, and she's been talking about this issue for
Speaker 1: the plight of workers and the average person for a
Speaker 1: long time. Um. And even even the Medicare for All debate,
Speaker 1: like that may not be like all of a sudden
Speaker 1: like oh yeah, maybe so um And you know not
Speaker 1: everyone's going to get this not you know that. I
Speaker 1: do see the push pull of people wanting to get
Speaker 1: back to work. Of course they think I like not
Speaker 1: having stores closed, the people like not working. I just
Speaker 1: think it's this push pull of what average citizens have
Speaker 1: to realize they have to sacrifice, and it's something Americans,
Speaker 1: the twitchy American electric doesn't like to do. When we
Speaker 1: come back, Kara Swisher finds a positive note for us
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Speaker 1: You're listening to Back to Biz with Katie and Boats.
Speaker 1: And before we finished our conversation with Kara, we asked
Speaker 1: her for the inside scoop on what tech innovations were
Speaker 1: really impressing her right now. Well, I think two areas
Speaker 1: are really big and I've written about them. One is
Speaker 1: climate change tech. I think there's some This is an
Speaker 1: area we're going to have talk about the next crisis
Speaker 1: we're gonna face. Climate change is an ongoing crisis that
Speaker 1: we have to figure out, and technology has to play
Speaker 1: a big part in it. Not just getting rid of
Speaker 1: the carbon in the atmosphere, because that's just cleaning trash, right,
Speaker 1: that's just so what how can we make food? Like
Speaker 1: some of the food tech stuff is really interesting, you know,
Speaker 1: how we make food available, healthy food with less a
Speaker 1: tax on the planet. Some of the autonomous car stuff
Speaker 1: is really great. I visited a couple of companies right
Speaker 1: before this actually that I was really heartened by, like
Speaker 1: some of the stuff that's happening there and the idea
Speaker 1: of of saving energy in that way. Um, some of
Speaker 1: the stuff around energy is cool. Like how we can
Speaker 1: build homes, Like the way we build homes right now
Speaker 1: is artisanal. It's ridiculous waste of of of all kinds
Speaker 1: of them that it contributes enormous amounts to greenhouse gases
Speaker 1: construction does so, Or what are we gonna do with
Speaker 1: if we're not going to have cars like I talked
Speaker 1: about not cars, or if we're not going to have
Speaker 1: so many commercial office businesses, maybe we could turn them
Speaker 1: into homes so people could live more affordably. Like there's
Speaker 1: all kinds of like Like there's a great book by
Speaker 1: Brad Smith, he's the president of Microsoft, of all people
Speaker 1: Microsoft used to which used to be sort of the
Speaker 1: evil Empire. He's written amazing book called Tools and Weapons
Speaker 1: and the same thing. It's about tech. But it can
Speaker 1: neither be a it's like a knife. It can be
Speaker 1: a tool or a weapon. Which one do we want
Speaker 1: to use it for? And I think that's like there's
Speaker 1: all these kind of stuff that we can take and
Speaker 1: start to think about and what's a better way of
Speaker 1: doing it? And I have to say all and if
Speaker 1: you want out a positive I think young people really
Speaker 1: do get this. What younger people do. My son is
Speaker 1: my son like he calms me down so much. He
Speaker 1: gets it, he understands it. I don't think he's particularly
Speaker 1: one way. He's just like, just take a second, like
Speaker 1: we can figure this out. Like they're much more. They don't.
Speaker 1: They're not cynical, and yet they they do. I think
Speaker 1: I think they're frustrated with all them We've given them
Speaker 1: a terrible future with all this debt we've just piled
Speaker 1: on right now. Um, there's no choice here, unfortunately. But
Speaker 1: but I think and there's who can say viruses a virus,
Speaker 1: like there's nothing to be done about something like this. Um.
Speaker 1: But I think they feels that they're much more I
Speaker 1: don't want to say hopeful, but they're more pragmatic about things.
Speaker 1: And I feel like, whenever I talk to young people,
Speaker 1: I feel much better about the world because I think
Speaker 1: they've grown up in this tech environment. They see it
Speaker 1: for what it is, and they're not fool the way
Speaker 1: we are. And and that doesn't panick them. It isn't
Speaker 1: you know, it doesn't upset them quite as much. And
Speaker 1: they're not afraid, I think to give their opinions sometimes
Speaker 1: I have to say without portfolio. But I think they
Speaker 1: they feel very liberated to to say what's wrong too.
Speaker 1: Sometimes our embarrassment because I feel like we have done
Speaker 1: a really shitty job and a lot of departments. But
Speaker 1: I love the fact that they they care so much
Speaker 1: and they let you know they care and what they're
Speaker 1: going to do about it. And I think it's really
Speaker 1: refreshing to do. You find that bows as well? Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean I think that there's so much to be
Speaker 1: said for this coming sort of generation right there, innovating
Speaker 1: in a way that we never had to or generations
Speaker 1: before them really haven't had to innovate in this way.
Speaker 1: Certainly there have been, you know, terrible moments in history
Speaker 1: where generations have had to overcome what their parents did.
Speaker 1: But you know, even talking about Karay, your son, you know,
Speaker 1: going off to college and then coming out of it,
Speaker 1: you know, what work is he going to do? How
Speaker 1: is he going to do it? If he's not stressed
Speaker 1: that about it, he's feeling hopeful about what will become.
Speaker 1: I just think it's a very positive way to look
Speaker 1: at the future because although we've saddled them with perhaps
Speaker 1: what is a really detrimental, horrible burden. Uh, if he's hopeful,
Speaker 1: that makes me hopeful. Well, also, you have to have
Speaker 1: a historical perspective. And I think I just did a
Speaker 1: great podcast John met Jim, who has written lots of
Speaker 1: loves of people. He's amazing and one of the things
Speaker 1: that I think we have lost historical sense in the
Speaker 1: way our society is built so so tech forward and
Speaker 1: so digital forward, and that like someone the other day was,
Speaker 1: you know, this is just terrible. I'm like, well, slavery
Speaker 1: was terrible, the Civil War was terrible, the Whiskey Rebellion
Speaker 1: was terrible, McCarthyism was terrible, Salem which trouser. Like, we
Speaker 1: have an ability to overcome things. It's just my only
Speaker 1: worry is that because we're so jacked into the tech
Speaker 1: system that it's taken over our brains in that addictive way.
Speaker 1: And it's really the communications platforms are so invasive and
Speaker 1: toxic that it may be the things that's pushed us
Speaker 1: over the edge. But we've overcome so much horrible history
Speaker 1: and for for lots of people and reached for some
Speaker 1: really big goals like them. I was watching for some reason,
Speaker 1: I was watching the speech that Kennedy gave about the
Speaker 1: moon landing, and I was like, oh, remember that was great,
Speaker 1: Like there we can the minute we have a leader
Speaker 1: that's like that, I think it appeals to our best
Speaker 1: nature and it pulls us away from from all of this. Well,
Speaker 1: maybe we just need to get out of the way, Yeah,
Speaker 1: or just just let people. I'll end on. I'll end
Speaker 1: you a happy note. I live in this neighborhood in
Speaker 1: DC right now with my kids in Shaw. And one
Speaker 1: thing that's great. If you walk around a city at
Speaker 1: least I don't know what it's like in the suburbs.
Speaker 1: Everyone's on their porches talking to each other. It's really
Speaker 1: people are sick of the screens, like they've gotten outside.
Speaker 1: They and and this. You just go by and meet.
Speaker 1: I've met. I know all my neighbors now, which is incredible,
Speaker 1: which I which I've moved into a new house, but
Speaker 1: I did, I would have taken me forever, would have
Speaker 1: been closed inside. And there was this family across right
Speaker 1: on the owner for me, and they were all outside
Speaker 1: doing the electric slide of all things. And I was
Speaker 1: like the electric slide that these kids were loving it.
Speaker 1: There's little kids in name of course, Like I was like,
Speaker 1: this is an awful dance, but it's not. It's not.
Speaker 1: It's a great dance. And you know, and they moved
Speaker 1: to the macarena and it was like it was just
Speaker 1: a lovely night and I was like, oh, okay, you
Speaker 1: can be like this, you know what I mean? There
Speaker 1: was a there was a real sense of community that
Speaker 1: was had been lost and I'd forgotten about. And I
Speaker 1: thought that was I hope you. I hope you have
Speaker 1: video of yourself doing the macarina. I did not. I
Speaker 1: was socially distanced and I am I could not do
Speaker 1: the electric slide to this day, I tried. I can't, No,
Speaker 1: I can't talk. I think I want some try to
Speaker 1: teach you to do the body roll. So we made
Speaker 1: I was, well, we're going to be successful in electric slide. No,
Speaker 1: that's not happening. I can I will do it so badly.
Speaker 1: You'll be like I cannot believe someone dances quite so bad.
Speaker 1: It's really depressed. And I have to learn to dance
Speaker 1: because I'm getting married again. I think about hope over experience,
Speaker 1: um and uh, and it's a triumph of hope over.
Speaker 1: And my my girlfriend is an amazing UM. She does
Speaker 1: tango and she's like, if you know, dance on our
Speaker 1: freaking wedding. I'm going to divorce you right afterwards, and
Speaker 1: I was like, how, I've got to learn to dance.
Speaker 1: So I'm going to get onto YouTube and learn how
Speaker 1: to dance. It's all right, but we can. We can
Speaker 1: do a zoom and bow and I teach you because
Speaker 1: I'm a pret I've seen you. You get down, Katie Couric,
Speaker 1: you pat down, blow like I saw one picture of you.
Speaker 1: I was like, girl, what's happened there? Jesus stripes? I
Speaker 1: drop like it's hot, drop it like it's what? Oh
Speaker 1: it is hot, Katie? What can you say? It was
Speaker 1: hot to start with, it remains hot. It will always
Speaker 1: be with Katie Kirk. Kara, thank you for doing that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: who's who's next? Who are you having up? What is
Speaker 1: what is this? What do you try to do? Find hope? Right?
Speaker 1: We're just we're just talking too smart forward looking people
Speaker 1: who were you know, thoughtful and interesting and fun to
Speaker 1: talk to you? But I would tell you, but then
Speaker 1: I'd have to kill you. Carol. Well, good, that's a
Speaker 1: good discussion to have because we can we can change
Speaker 1: things for the better and get rid of the shooty
Speaker 1: things for sure. Like that. Thanks Kara, thank you, thank well.
Speaker 1: That was it the very first episode Back to Biz
Speaker 1: with Me, Katie and Me so Bose, what did you think?
Speaker 1: Oh my goodness, I'm about to pop the champagne. That
Speaker 1: was fun and we're gonna do ten. So there's a
Speaker 1: lot more to come. We'll be talking to CEOs, entrepreneurs,
Speaker 1: political leaders, cultural trailblazers, gosh and so many more. So
Speaker 1: stay tuned, everybody. The next one will be coming the
Speaker 1: first week of June, and new episodes land every Thursday
Speaker 1: after that. You can find Back to Biz episodes in
Speaker 1: the next Question feed or by searching Apple Podcast, the
Speaker 1: I Heart Radio app, or wherever you listen to your
Speaker 1: favorite shows. And if you like what you've heard, spread
Speaker 1: the word. Let us know. Come find us on social media.
Speaker 1: We're on Instagram and Twitter and TikTok. What do you
Speaker 1: think bows, are you going to do it? Oh? Hell no,
Speaker 1: I'm not getting on TikTok. They can find you on TikTok.
Speaker 1: I might do TikTok. I'm an early adapter woman, so
Speaker 1: you might find me doing a few very strange dances.
Speaker 1: So tell Layel your daughter, she's got to join me
Speaker 1: and follow me at least on TikTok. So I have
Speaker 1: somebody following me this all right, Well, the next show
Speaker 1: will be Katie and Lael. Okay. Meanwhile, I'm Katie Kuric
Speaker 1: and I'm Boa St John And this is Back to
Speaker 1: Biz with Katie and Bows. Thanks for listening, everybody, Okay bye.
Speaker 1: Back to Biz with Katie and Bows is a production
Speaker 1: of I Heart Radio and Katie Currik Media. The executive
Speaker 1: producers are Katie Currk, bozmas St John, and Courtney Litz.
Speaker 1: The supervising producer is Lauren Hansen. The associate producers are
Speaker 1: Derek Clements, Eliza Costas and Emily Pinto. Editing by Derek
Speaker 1: Clements and Lauren Hansen, Mixing by Derrek Clements. Special thanks
Speaker 1: to Adriana Fasio. For more information about today's episode, go
Speaker 1: to Katie Kirk dot com. You can also follow Katie
Speaker 1: Kurrik and bozmas St John on Twitter and Instagram. For
Speaker 1: more podcasts for my Heart Radio, visit the I Heart
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