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Speaker 1: Welcome to Good Game with Sarah Spain, where we're sending

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Speaker 1: our love to all the parents out there cutting eye

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Speaker 1: holes in sheets, drawing whiskers on their kids' faces with eyeliner,

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Speaker 1: or spinning their child through several rolls of toilet paper

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Speaker 1: to make the world's least convincing mummy. Y'all didn't plan ahead,

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Speaker 1: but that's okay. Happy all. Hallo's eve. It's Thursday, October thirtieth,

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Speaker 1: and on today's show will be skipping the need to

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Speaker 1: know and getting straight to my conversation with doctor Nicole Levoy,

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Speaker 1: the director of the Tucker Center for Research on Girls

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Speaker 1: and Women in Sport at the University of Minnesota, and

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Speaker 1: Emily Joe Roberts, the director of Women's Coaching and Executives

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Speaker 1: for the Collective, the Women's division of the Wasserman Talent Agency.

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Speaker 1: I talk to them about the current state of coaching

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Speaker 1: and women's sports, the trends they're seeing at both the

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Speaker 1: college and pro ranks, and the sport that's the worst

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Speaker 1: offender when it comes to hiring women coaches. That conversation

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Speaker 1: is coming up right after this joining us now. She's

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Speaker 1: the director of the Tucker Center for Research on Girls

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Speaker 1: and Women in Sport at the University of Minnesota, a

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Speaker 1: senior lecturer in the School of Kinesiology and the founder

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Speaker 1: of Coaching Her, a free digital tool to help coaches

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Speaker 1: get and keep girls in sport. A tennis star at

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Speaker 1: Gustavus Adolphus University who graduated Zuma cum Laudie, she coached

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Speaker 1: tennis for seventeen years, including as the head women's tennis

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Speaker 1: coach at Wellesley College. She's co produced three Emmy nominated documentaries,

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Speaker 1: We've Sipped Honeyduces at the US Open with a bevy

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Speaker 1: of Badasses, and We've Lived the Sweet Life with the

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Speaker 1: gatorad Women's Advisory Board. At the Final Four, It's Nicole Levoy.

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Speaker 1: Thanks Sarah also joining us. She's the director of Women's

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Speaker 1: Coaching and Executives for the Collective, the Women's division of

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Speaker 1: the Wasserman Talent Agency, and she's a member of the

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Speaker 1: Durham Sports Commission Board of Directors. The former assistant women's

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Speaker 1: basketball coach and recruiting coordinator for Appalachian State University, with

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Speaker 1: previous stops at Elon University and the University of Memphis.

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Speaker 1: She played her college hoops at University of North Carolina Wilmington.

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Speaker 1: We're obsessed with our dogs, and we do our best

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Speaker 1: work conspiring to change the world in hot tubs. It's

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Speaker 1: Emily Joe Roberts.

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Speaker 2: That's the best there, That really is the best. It's

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Speaker 2: great to be here.

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Speaker 1: Thank you both for being here. All right, Nicole, you

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Speaker 1: were a tennis coach for a long time before pivoting

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Speaker 1: to academia. So I'm wondering if that move was more

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Speaker 1: about wanting to leave coaching or wanting to enter university life.

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Speaker 3: I would say neither. Actually, I didn't want to leave coaching,

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Speaker 3: but what I loved about coaching is seeing the difference

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Speaker 3: I made in the lives of the women on my team.

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Speaker 3: And I was at an all women's college, as you mentioned,

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Speaker 3: I was at Wellswayne. I saw the role of sport

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Speaker 3: in the development of these young women, and I thought, Wow,

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Speaker 3: wouldn't that be cool to do this on a bigger scale,

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Speaker 3: not just one team at a time, but for millions

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Speaker 3: of girls and women around the world. And so I

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Speaker 3: left my dream job to pursue a degree, to pursue

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Speaker 3: my passion. I'm making a difference for girls and women

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Speaker 3: in sport. And I went back to the Tucker Center

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Speaker 3: for Research on Girls, and I'm in it sport to

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Speaker 3: get that additional knowledge, and those initials behind my name,

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Speaker 3: they gave me some credibility. So I didn't want to leave,

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Speaker 3: and I didn't necessarily want to be in academia, but

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Speaker 3: I just followed my passion.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so you went back to the center, you got

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Speaker 1: the masters, and then you took over the center, which

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Speaker 1: is love to see it. Emily Joe, what about you?

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Speaker 1: What inspired your move from coach life to agency life?

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Speaker 1: It's pretty recent for you.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it is. I think. You know, my last coaching

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Speaker 2: stoff was a hard one, and I tell people those

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Speaker 2: exist in this business sadly. And in leaving that, you know,

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Speaker 2: I felt like I was probably doing more or spending

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Speaker 2: more time fighting our own institution for the things that

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Speaker 2: we needed as women. And my voice was really stifled

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Speaker 2: as a coach, I say, And I stepped into this

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Speaker 2: agency space with the ability and in the right place

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Speaker 2: where we kind of shout that from the rooftops, like

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Speaker 2: we fight for what is right and what is needed.

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Speaker 2: And they wanted to build a women's coaches division, specifically

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Speaker 2: with a very marketing forward approach at Wasserman and wanted

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Speaker 2: to invest in that, and as soon as that was

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Speaker 2: brought to my attention, the light bulb just went off.

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Speaker 2: I was like, this is actually where I was meant

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Speaker 2: to be and what I was meant to be doing,

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Speaker 2: because I'm like, put me in the ring, let's go

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Speaker 2: put up the fight, like, let's do this. And I

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Speaker 2: told Nicole recently it was funny. I actually learned at

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Speaker 2: the Tucker Institute at my last coaching stop from a

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Speaker 2: coach on the men's staff. His girlfriend had worked at

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Speaker 2: the Tucker Institute. And I was, I think, fighting them

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Speaker 2: on something like giving them hell about something, and he

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Speaker 2: was like, have you ever heard of the Tucker Institute?

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Speaker 2: And I was like, no, tell me more.

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Speaker 1: And that was who were you fighting? The guy from

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Speaker 1: the men's team.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, no, well he was the dobo the Men's dovo

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Speaker 2: on their staff. We were like fighting over practice times

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Speaker 2: or something something like that, and he was like and

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Speaker 2: I was, you know, pushing it firm, and he was like,

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Speaker 2: have you ever heard of the Tucker Institute? I really

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Speaker 2: think you should look them up. And that was, you know,

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Speaker 2: how this all started for me. And I was like, yeah,

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Speaker 2: these are my people, Nicole, were my people.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, Well, so you both are doing the work,

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Speaker 1: fighting the good fight at a smaller level, and then realizing,

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Speaker 1: if this is happening to me, and I'm fighting these

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Speaker 1: battles or making change in a positive ways, said, then

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Speaker 1: this must be happening all across the country. How do

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Speaker 1: I take what I've learned from this and then elevate

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Speaker 1: what I'm doing so that I can actually change the

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Speaker 1: system and all of the places that women work as

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Speaker 1: opposed to just in my little part of the world. So, Nicole,

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Speaker 1: let's paint a picture of the space of women in coaching.

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Speaker 1: What are some of the biggest reasons we don't see

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Speaker 1: more women coaches in women's sports? And has that always

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Speaker 1: been the case?

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Speaker 3: Okay, so I'm going to make this a cliff notes

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Speaker 3: version of a very long answer. So let's just imagine

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Speaker 3: a concentric circle. So we've got a system, right, We've

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Speaker 3: got society. We've got lots of barriers that intersect for

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Speaker 3: women in sport coaching. Societal sexism, homophobia, racism, ableism, agism.

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Speaker 3: That's one level. Those are hard to change. Next level

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Speaker 3: organizational level, men at the top, lack of upward mobility,

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Speaker 3: lack of family friendly policies, a bad organizational culture. Then

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Speaker 3: the next level is the interpersonal level where women sperience

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Speaker 3: the good old boys club, a lack of women network,

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Speaker 3: and gender bias, and the athletes prefer male coaches. So all,

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Speaker 3: I mean, that's not even all of them. So that's

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Speaker 3: just some of them. And that system is what all

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Speaker 3: women in sport coaching face. And I would argue that

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Speaker 3: it's all women in all occupational landscapes, but we're talking

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Speaker 3: about coaching here, and no it has not. It has

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Speaker 3: always been the case because the system of sport was

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Speaker 3: built by men and for men, and still largely run

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Speaker 3: by men. So that is the state.

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Speaker 1: Of the union.

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Speaker 3: And I will add quickly that for you know, women

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Speaker 3: with different intersectional identities, gay, queer, non binary, women of color,

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Speaker 3: differently able, nationality, status, religion experienced the system differently. So

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Speaker 3: not all women are in the system of sexism and

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Speaker 3: gender bias, but we experience differently depending on our identities.

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Speaker 1: This is someone who has given this presentation a time

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Speaker 1: or two. I just pictured like all your concentric cert

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Speaker 1: like they were all like planets to me in a

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Speaker 1: solar system of shit, and they all combined together to

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Speaker 1: create the gravity and inertia that makes it so difficult.

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Speaker 1: And you know, you mentioned women have always existed in

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Speaker 1: this larger society that creates these problems, So yes, it

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Speaker 1: has always been an issue. But I would point out

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Speaker 1: something we always talk about, which is back when women's

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Speaker 1: sports made less money, were less invested in, and had

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Speaker 1: smaller salaries for their coaches, there were more women doing it.

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Speaker 1: Back in the pat Summit days of Oh I got

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Speaker 1: to do the laundry, drive the bus, and coach the team.

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Speaker 1: Only a woman's doing that. But Emily Joe, the professionalization

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Speaker 1: of college sport, the increased investment into women's pro leagues

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Speaker 1: that is happening everywhere, is that making it harder or

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Speaker 1: easier for women to get those coaching jobs, especially now

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Speaker 1: that we have more women who played because of Title

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Speaker 1: nine growing up and becoming the women who in theory

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Speaker 1: could coach.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's a great question, and I think

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Speaker 2: it really is making I want to say, harder there

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Speaker 2: are If you look at the end of cls, it

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Speaker 2: has a very you know, white male European heritage and

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Speaker 2: it has stayed in that and it's not really making

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Speaker 2: a mini moves from that. It's it's going to take

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Speaker 2: in concerted effort to do that, and I don't think

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Speaker 2: that that's currently happening, especially as pay becomes a little

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Speaker 2: bit more equal, I wouldn't say that it's equal. I

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Speaker 2: think women coaches and women's sports make forty cents to

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Speaker 2: the dollar that we see in men's sports, which is yeah,

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Speaker 2: which is a really difficult stat to live with at times,

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Speaker 2: but for so many reasons, more men are able to

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Speaker 2: take that job in still so, but as we see

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Speaker 2: pay increase, certainly it is making it harder for women

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Speaker 2: to get in that space because there are no opportunities

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Speaker 2: for women on the men's side, very little, we should say.

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Speaker 2: Nicole could probably give the stats on that better than

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Speaker 2: I can, but there are very little opportunities. And then

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Speaker 2: we've actually minimized the opportunity on the women's side. So

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Speaker 2: if you look at the end of even just head coaches,

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Speaker 2: that's one space to look at as predominantly men. If

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Speaker 2: you look at the WNBA, it's fairly equal, but the

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Speaker 2: recent hiring trends have shown to go more towards men,

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Speaker 2: and we've also going more towards the NBA. We think

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Speaker 2: we need to go into the NBA to see more

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Speaker 2: to see better coaching. If anyone can see my air

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Speaker 2: quotes like better coaching. We have really good coaches in

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Speaker 2: the women We have really good coaches across women's sports,

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Speaker 2: and I think we think for some reason that that's

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Speaker 2: the pinnacle of what coaching looks like, and so we

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Speaker 2: have to go over there to grab them to bring

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Speaker 2: them over to our space. And don't get me wrong,

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Speaker 2: they're great coaches over in the men's NBA too, So

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Speaker 2: it's a space that certainly allows for women to go

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Speaker 2: learn and come back to or whatever that looks like.

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Speaker 2: But I do think as we professionalize women's sports in

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Speaker 2: this bigger way women coaches, it's the pipeline that I

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Speaker 2: think is most affected. So if you look at the

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Speaker 2: backup inches in the WNBA, it's primarily men. If you

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Speaker 2: look at assistant coaches in the NWSL, primarily men. That's

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Speaker 2: where we're actually seeing a major because those are I mean,

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Speaker 2: I would say there were lower paid jobs. But that's

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Speaker 2: the place where we're actually missing is the pipeline of

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Speaker 2: creating more opportunity for women in those spaces to continue

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Speaker 2: to grow. And there's lots of reasons for that that

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Speaker 2: I'm sure we'll get into but I think, yes, that's

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Speaker 2: to me, it's making it much harder in many ways,

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Speaker 2: and at the college level it's a lot more difficult.

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Speaker 2: Even at the college level. That opens up a whole

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Speaker 2: new gate, a whole new rove of problems and issues

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Speaker 2: at the college level.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, there's a couple of things in there I want

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Speaker 1: to touch on. One is, yeah, you've got and it

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Speaker 1: happens in the media side too. It's people ask like,

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Speaker 1: why do women want to go cover men's sports? Why

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Speaker 1: do women want to go coach men's sports? And you say, well,

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Speaker 1: financially it is much more lucrative. But let's say we're

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Speaker 1: not allowed to. Then we get sent back to the

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Speaker 1: women's side, where there's plenty of men already taking those jobs,

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Speaker 1: and no one's criticizing men for taking highly paid women's

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Speaker 1: coaching jobs the way that they want to criticize women

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Speaker 1: for trying to get in to the men's space, and

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Speaker 1: so it leaves so few opportunities in general. And then, Nicole,

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Speaker 1: I want to go back to something you mentioned, because

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Speaker 1: we talked about this a couple of years ago. For

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Speaker 1: some presentation. We were doing the idea that athletes prefer

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Speaker 1: a male coach. Why is that? Where have they heard

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Speaker 1: that or where have they internalized that? And how do

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Speaker 1: we change that?

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Speaker 3: Well, unfortunately athletes, both boys and men, girls and women

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Speaker 3: also live in that system that is replete with gender bias.

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Speaker 3: So because a lot of young women never really get

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Speaker 3: the opportunity to be coached by a woman, they think

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Speaker 3: that men are by default the most competent, most qualified,

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Speaker 3: most everything, and so when they get a female coach,

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Speaker 3: they think, oh, well, I have the less than version

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Speaker 3: of this coach, which they don't realize is gender bias.

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Speaker 3: And then young men, because they're almost always coached by men,

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Speaker 3: if they get a female, they also think the same thing.

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Speaker 3: So the way to change that. It's not the athlete's fault.

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Speaker 3: They don't know any better. So it's about education and

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Speaker 3: bringing awareness to young people to say, hey, this is

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Speaker 3: part of the system we're all in and when you

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Speaker 3: get in the job force, guess what, you are also

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Speaker 3: going to experience gender bias. So maybe you want to

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Speaker 3: rethink that against other women. Because I hear this all

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Speaker 3: the time. Women sometimes are not good to other women,

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Speaker 3: and our young women don't know better, So that's on

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Speaker 3: us to educate them.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and it does feel like we blame women for

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Speaker 1: that instead of understanding that we have internalized misogyny that

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Speaker 1: is given to us by the system since basically birth,

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Speaker 1: and we have to intentionally be aware that we have

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Speaker 1: that and then work our way out of it, as

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Speaker 1: opposed to blaming ourselves for how we feel. We got

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Speaker 1: to take a quick break more with Nicole and Emily

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Speaker 1: Joe right after this. You know, we talked about the

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Speaker 1: idea that it's not just that men are more competent

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Speaker 1: and should be doing the jobs, but the idea of

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Speaker 1: what a great coaches tends to be mythologized in storytelle telling,

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Speaker 1: TV movies as a screaming man who is very tough

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Speaker 1: on you, and sometimes athletes even believe that if their

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Speaker 1: coach isn't like that, then they probably aren't getting the

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Speaker 1: best coach. How do we change that? Is that a

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Speaker 1: matter of media coverage, storytelling, et cetera. Do we have

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Speaker 1: to replace those models with something else?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, Emily Joe and we're both nodding.

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Speaker 2: Hard enough.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, Yeah, I think it's about storytelling and changing the

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Speaker 3: you know, the old, outdated stereotypes of what it means

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Speaker 3: to coach and bringing in a both and approach like, yes,

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Speaker 3: sometimes you do need to yelp, sometimes you need to

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Speaker 3: be relational and caring and kind, and that both men

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Speaker 3: and women could do both and that's what good coaching is.

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Speaker 2: If I could touch on that too, Sarah, just to

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Speaker 2: say that, you know, women often don't get the benefit

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Speaker 2: of the doubt that they're the strategic or tech They

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Speaker 2: don't have the technical knowledge that men do on staffs,

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Speaker 2: and you know that is that's also how do we

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Speaker 2: solve that problem? Is that you know, I can't tell

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Speaker 2: you how many times I've heard the story of a

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Speaker 2: woman who's the head coach and there's a male assistant

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Speaker 2: and everybody goes directly to the mail to shake his

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Speaker 2: hand as if he's the head coach, the officials, everyone involved,

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Speaker 2: and everyone thinks he's the one. If the head coach

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Speaker 2: is winning games, that is probably this male assistant who

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Speaker 2: is you know, technically the solve for what's going on there.

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Speaker 2: And so it's not just you know, the how we

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Speaker 2: address players and working places, but it's this technical sign

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Speaker 2: and given women, you know, putting them in positions to

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Speaker 2: show that they are technically also and strategically very smart

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Speaker 2: at what they do and with their with their game.

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Speaker 2: I think that's so important to it, and storytelling that

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Speaker 2: piece of it.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I remember how important it was when Becky Hammond was

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Speaker 1: coaching the San Antonio Spurs of the m NBA during

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Speaker 1: Summer League. They were miked up and there was an

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Speaker 1: actual access to what she was doing and people were

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Speaker 1: sort of like, WHOA, she really knows ball, And it's like, well, yeah,

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Speaker 1: because she's a coach that's in them. Yeah, But sometimes

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Speaker 1: we actually have to see and hear it. And I

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Speaker 1: think of Becky Hammond two as one of the few

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Speaker 1: women coaches that is idolized and mythologized for her success

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Speaker 1: across all the different spaces she's been in. We struggle

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Speaker 1: with that and in some ways with women coaches in

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Speaker 1: a way that we don't with men. We're so easy

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Speaker 1: to be able to build them up, these men that

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Speaker 1: have been in the business for a long time. We

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Speaker 1: need to do that as much with the women that

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Speaker 1: are successful, so that the athletes that see them from

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Speaker 1: afar or play for them get that they're playing for

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Speaker 1: a great the same way people seem to get when

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Speaker 1: they're playing for a man who's considered a great. You know, Nicole.

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Speaker 1: I was surprised to learn that tennis, which is a

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Speaker 1: sport that's done a great job of providing equal pay

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Speaker 1: for decades and seems to be more advanced and involved

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Speaker 1: than many other spaces, has a serious dearth of female

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Speaker 1: coaches top to bottom. What do you think is going

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Speaker 1: on there? This is your account, this is your world

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Speaker 1: of tennis.

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Speaker 3: Yes, this is my world for sure. And about three

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Speaker 3: years ago I did a massive survey for the USTA

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Speaker 3: asking women because they came to me saying, we're losing

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Speaker 3: women post COVID. This is a big problem. It's bad

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Speaker 3: for business. Please help us understand this. So I did

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Speaker 3: a survey and got twelve hundred women to fill out

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Speaker 3: the survey. Now, as a researcher, that's a gold mine

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Speaker 3: of data, So I'll just give you the top lying

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Speaker 3: findings is that tennis is still mostly controlled by men

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Speaker 3: who don't respect our thoughts and opinions. That is a

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Speaker 3: quote from a woman in my study. It is still

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Speaker 3: an embedded male culture of male privilege, where the men

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Speaker 3: of the leaders control the resources and assigned women to

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Speaker 3: these kind of second class status jobs. The assistants way

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Speaker 3: out on court, pen the little kids, not the high

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Speaker 3: performance athletes. And another woman said, still a man's profession.

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Speaker 3: The men have each other's back even if they've been fired.

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Speaker 3: Men are hired at any age. Women have a harder

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Speaker 3: time getting hired as they get older, and if you're

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Speaker 3: not in the boys club, you never hear of new jobs.

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Speaker 3: So it's about male culture and privilege. But it's also

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Speaker 3: about insufficient support. They don't get paid the same, they

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Speaker 3: don't have mentorship, they don't have male sponsorship, and then

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Speaker 3: they also feel devalued and lack of acknowledgment, which makes

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Speaker 3: them feel and be perceived as less important. So here's

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Speaker 3: a quote from a woman. She said, the industry is

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Speaker 3: still mostly controlled by men who don't respect our saws

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Speaker 3: and opinions. So this is bad. And I told the

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Speaker 3: people in charge of tennis, like we are lucky we

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Speaker 3: have any women coaches coaching tennis, because they also report

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Speaker 3: a lot of sexual harassment by male colleagues and male

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Speaker 3: clients that is not okay, and that maybe a little

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Speaker 3: bit unique to tennis because sometimes it's one on one,

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Speaker 3: so there are a lot of problems.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I think is doing a very rough

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Speaker 1: early correlation where it sounds kind of like current like

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Speaker 1: GOP versus liberal Democrats, where like the GOP has no

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Speaker 1: shame and if somebody screws up, they kind of just

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Speaker 1: like welcome you back in or pardon you, or give

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Speaker 1: you back your job or get you out of jail.

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Speaker 1: And Liberals are constantly chiding each other for not being perfect,

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Speaker 1: and so there's this feeling of like the men are

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Speaker 1: willing to excuse each other's behavior and continue to prop

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Speaker 1: each other up, whereas women are more likely to say

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Speaker 1: that was wrong, you shouldn't keep your job, or we

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Speaker 1: need to have accountability and standards for this, and less

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Speaker 1: likely to cover for each other because we want everyone

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Speaker 1: to do things the way they should and do them right.

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Speaker 1: And that's not to say that women don't ever cover

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Speaker 1: for each other's issues or do things wrong, but there

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Speaker 1: is something to be said for that theme being across

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Speaker 1: so many spaces of no matter how much man maks up,

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Speaker 1: he's just failing up, and women are trying to hold

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Speaker 1: ourselves and others to standards that sometimes doesn't work in

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Speaker 1: a system that's so so flawed as this one is.

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Speaker 1: You know, I wonder what sport you think is the

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Speaker 1: worst offender in terms of gender imbalance in coaching both

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Speaker 1: of you, is there one that stands out?

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Speaker 2: Nicole probably has the data that I can tell you that.

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Speaker 2: Actually I know she has the data. I've seen it.

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Speaker 3: The worst defenders are cross country, track and field and

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Speaker 3: swimming and diving, which is really interesting because those are

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Speaker 3: the two sports where a lot of times the team's

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Speaker 3: practice together in a co ed environment. So on our

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Speaker 3: women in college coaching or Parkard, at least in the

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Speaker 3: college space, those are the sports that get announced.

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Speaker 1: Interesting. So I only had women coaches for field hockey,

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Speaker 1: which sort of made sense to me. I only had

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Speaker 1: men coaches for basketball, never had a woman, and then

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Speaker 1: I mostly had had male coaches for track and field

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Speaker 1: with female assistants. So I at least did have some women,

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Speaker 1: although now that I think about it, at the collegiate level,

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Speaker 1: I didn't have it.

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Speaker 3: There's very few women director of track and field. There's

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Speaker 3: a handful of them in the largest V one conferences.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it feels like we are constantly trying to explain

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Speaker 1: why it matters and it's important to have female leadership

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Speaker 1: and representation. And you know, Nicole, when we were doing

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Speaker 1: the USTA event at the US open. It brought together

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Speaker 1: women coaches from nearly every sport, plus male leaders into

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Speaker 1: this room to have this really honest and frank discussion

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Speaker 1: of the factors that are holding back women's coaches, not

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Speaker 1: just in tennis but across sport. And I want to

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Speaker 1: ask about the white paper that you wrote about that,

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Speaker 1: but first I want to mention that, like in the

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Speaker 1: preparing of that, in the calls that we had leading

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Speaker 1: up to it, because I was going to be moderating

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Speaker 1: that conversation, we got into a whole lot of stuff

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Speaker 1: that I don't think gets talked about quite as often.

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Speaker 1: Whether that's obvious things like childcare, then things like is

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Speaker 1: the life of a coach so inherently imbalanced that eventually

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Speaker 1: a lot of women will find their way out of it,

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Speaker 1: even if they're getting offers and opportunities to keep moving up,

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Speaker 1: because they personally choose that they won't be able to

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Speaker 1: have a romantic life, of family life, children, take care

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Speaker 1: of elderly, parents, take care of people in their lives

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Speaker 1: that has fallen to them. Because we know women do

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Speaker 1: so much more of that labor. So how much of

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Speaker 1: it is the system is broken and doesn't allow women

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Speaker 1: to move up and how much do you think it

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Speaker 1: is a reality that we need to discuss, which is

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Speaker 1: that some times more women don't want the life that

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Speaker 1: is required and asked of them if they're going to

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Speaker 1: do these jobs at the highest levels.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it's a both, and I don't think

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Speaker 3: it's in either of you or I think the system

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Speaker 3: is broken and women have agency to make choices to

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Speaker 3: not be a part of that broken system. But what's

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Speaker 3: sad about that is the choices of women to opt

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Speaker 3: out are made within that broken system. So if the

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Speaker 3: system was better, we would have better choices. And so

433
00:21:55,440 --> 00:21:59,080
Speaker 3: the women often get blamed for opting out or not

434
00:21:59,240 --> 00:22:02,680
Speaker 3: wanting to continue or quick because they want to start

435
00:22:02,680 --> 00:22:05,560
Speaker 3: a family. And it's like, well, that's why you have

436
00:22:05,680 --> 00:22:09,760
Speaker 3: less women in coaching, because you chose not to coach,

437
00:22:09,880 --> 00:22:12,840
Speaker 3: and so it's your fault, right, But you know, those

438
00:22:12,920 --> 00:22:14,560
Speaker 3: choices are made within that system.

439
00:22:14,600 --> 00:22:17,960
Speaker 1: I explained earlier. Yeah, we talked to you know, Bruce Arians,

440
00:22:18,160 --> 00:22:21,760
Speaker 1: former Arizona Cardinals and Tampa Bay Buccaneers coach in the NFL,

441
00:22:22,119 --> 00:22:24,040
Speaker 1: was at that meeting, and one thing he talked about

442
00:22:24,119 --> 00:22:27,480
Speaker 1: was the priority of telling the people who worked for

443
00:22:27,560 --> 00:22:30,359
Speaker 1: him if you miss your children's events. For work, I

444
00:22:30,359 --> 00:22:34,560
Speaker 1: will fire you. You must attend your family's events. You

445
00:22:34,680 --> 00:22:38,159
Speaker 1: must incorporate your life and the people around you into

446
00:22:38,200 --> 00:22:40,520
Speaker 1: your work as opposed to making your work priority over

447
00:22:40,520 --> 00:22:42,439
Speaker 1: everything else. And the people at the top really have

448
00:22:42,440 --> 00:22:44,479
Speaker 1: to be the ones making those decisions. Emily Joy had

449
00:22:44,520 --> 00:22:47,960
Speaker 1: mentioned that, you know, you struggled at your last job.

450
00:22:48,080 --> 00:22:49,760
Speaker 1: It's the people at the top, like the coaches, but

451
00:22:49,800 --> 00:22:54,320
Speaker 1: also like administrators, athletic directors. What have you seen across

452
00:22:54,359 --> 00:22:59,000
Speaker 1: college spaces in particular where they make it difficult for

453
00:22:59,119 --> 00:23:01,520
Speaker 1: women to thrive because they've set up a system that

454
00:23:01,680 --> 00:23:05,760
Speaker 1: so maybe unintentionally even favors men.

455
00:23:06,320 --> 00:23:06,520
Speaker 3: Yeah.

456
00:23:06,520 --> 00:23:08,119
Speaker 2: I think one of the biggest ones you hear about

457
00:23:08,240 --> 00:23:13,160
Speaker 2: is coaches that can't bring their children on away games

458
00:23:13,240 --> 00:23:17,400
Speaker 2: or trips or events because of you know, it's some

459
00:23:17,440 --> 00:23:19,400
Speaker 2: sort of liability at some point.

460
00:23:19,480 --> 00:23:21,400
Speaker 3: And I would say, even when they're nursing.

461
00:23:21,720 --> 00:23:25,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it's that that's that's an impossible ask

462
00:23:25,800 --> 00:23:29,640
Speaker 2: of someone. And how do we change that from being

463
00:23:29,680 --> 00:23:32,800
Speaker 2: a liability to being welcomed. That's probably one of the

464
00:23:32,840 --> 00:23:37,040
Speaker 2: biggest things we've heard. And you know, we also pay.

465
00:23:38,000 --> 00:23:39,800
Speaker 2: It's like, you know, if we're not we're not going

466
00:23:39,880 --> 00:23:41,639
Speaker 2: to pay women in those spaces, and we choose to

467
00:23:41,680 --> 00:23:43,800
Speaker 2: do that because that's something I do on a regular basis,

468
00:23:43,800 --> 00:23:48,000
Speaker 2: is negotiate contracts for coaches and the difference in the

469
00:23:48,160 --> 00:23:51,520
Speaker 2: levels of pay around that and how we have conversations.

470
00:23:51,520 --> 00:23:53,639
Speaker 2: I mean, I had an athletic director one time tell me,

471
00:23:53,880 --> 00:23:55,880
Speaker 2: I never, in imagine years we'd pay a softball coach

472
00:23:55,920 --> 00:23:59,800
Speaker 2: this much money, and I, well, she's really good, so

473
00:24:00,440 --> 00:24:03,400
Speaker 2: you know, why would you not? Is the question? And

474
00:24:04,160 --> 00:24:07,520
Speaker 2: I think those are the kinds of conversations that happen

475
00:24:07,560 --> 00:24:10,960
Speaker 2: at that level that are still I mean, I could,

476
00:24:11,000 --> 00:24:14,120
Speaker 2: I could go on and on and just you can't

477
00:24:14,119 --> 00:24:16,440
Speaker 2: even imagine the things that they're still saying about women

478
00:24:16,520 --> 00:24:21,439
Speaker 2: as coaches behind closed doors, and just taking on this

479
00:24:21,600 --> 00:24:25,359
Speaker 2: perceived notion that you know, you know, we've got to

480
00:24:25,400 --> 00:24:27,120
Speaker 2: pay for this for a woman. If they want childcare,

481
00:24:27,160 --> 00:24:28,840
Speaker 2: then we're going to take this out of the contract.

482
00:24:28,880 --> 00:24:31,320
Speaker 2: Like those sorts of things are real conversations.

483
00:24:30,720 --> 00:24:33,520
Speaker 1: That happen while we're by the way, paying like record

484
00:24:33,560 --> 00:24:36,399
Speaker 1: buyouts to male coaches that only coached one year of

485
00:24:36,400 --> 00:24:38,800
Speaker 1: their five year deal. We fired them and then we

486
00:24:38,840 --> 00:24:40,760
Speaker 1: owe them millions and millions of dollars to not work

487
00:24:40,800 --> 00:24:42,360
Speaker 1: for us, but the woman where we'd have to pay

488
00:24:42,400 --> 00:24:44,800
Speaker 1: for a little extra for the childcare, that's a bridge

489
00:24:44,840 --> 00:24:47,520
Speaker 1: too far. And obviously we did.

490
00:24:47,400 --> 00:24:50,520
Speaker 3: A study where we asked athletic directors why they thought

491
00:24:50,560 --> 00:24:55,200
Speaker 3: they were underrepresentation of women, and the male athletic directors

492
00:24:55,280 --> 00:24:59,600
Speaker 3: blame the women, and the women athletic directors blame the

493
00:24:59,680 --> 00:25:03,760
Speaker 3: system them. And so then we went back to the

494
00:25:03,800 --> 00:25:06,160
Speaker 3: mail said, well, you know, women don't want to coach,

495
00:25:06,200 --> 00:25:08,959
Speaker 3: they're not competent. I can't find them. There's you know,

496
00:25:09,040 --> 00:25:11,879
Speaker 3: where are they? And the women are said, you know,

497
00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:14,240
Speaker 3: this is about a system. And so we went and

498
00:25:14,320 --> 00:25:17,480
Speaker 3: asked women coaches, if you get a job or thinking

499
00:25:17,520 --> 00:25:20,520
Speaker 3: of moving jobs, why don't you take the job because

500
00:25:20,840 --> 00:25:23,480
Speaker 3: men are like, well, women don't want to move their families.

501
00:25:23,680 --> 00:25:27,040
Speaker 3: You know, they're just and the number one reason Emily

502
00:25:27,160 --> 00:25:30,520
Speaker 3: Joe's thing is paid. They will not take a job

503
00:25:30,560 --> 00:25:33,240
Speaker 3: and move their family because they do not get paid enough,

504
00:25:33,280 --> 00:25:35,520
Speaker 3: so they'll stick with the devil they know, versus the

505
00:25:35,560 --> 00:25:38,960
Speaker 3: devil they don't and still not get paid. So it's

506
00:25:39,040 --> 00:25:43,680
Speaker 3: again to debunk this myth about blaming women. The women know,

507
00:25:43,920 --> 00:25:46,760
Speaker 3: they know their value. They're not being given the opportunity

508
00:25:46,840 --> 00:25:48,200
Speaker 3: or being paid what they're worth.

509
00:25:48,600 --> 00:25:50,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I urge everyone, if they haven't, to read

510
00:25:50,920 --> 00:25:54,240
Speaker 1: up on Sam Rapaports Women in Football Forum and how

511
00:25:54,320 --> 00:25:57,480
Speaker 1: she basically proved wrong everyone at the NFL who said

512
00:25:57,480 --> 00:25:59,879
Speaker 1: women don't want these jobs and there aren't any qu

513
00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:02,879
Speaker 1: qualified ones that I can find. She literally created a

514
00:26:02,920 --> 00:26:05,200
Speaker 1: system where they were directly in front of the faces

515
00:26:05,200 --> 00:26:07,760
Speaker 1: of the gms and coaches, fully vetted and ready to

516
00:26:07,800 --> 00:26:10,760
Speaker 1: work that day. And it completely changed how many women

517
00:26:10,800 --> 00:26:12,520
Speaker 1: work in the NFL and how many women believe that

518
00:26:12,520 --> 00:26:16,400
Speaker 1: there's an opportunity. So it's about a lack of imagination

519
00:26:17,160 --> 00:26:19,120
Speaker 1: or perhaps a desire to keep the system as is

520
00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:21,440
Speaker 1: for those who do recognize that they could change things

521
00:26:21,440 --> 00:26:24,879
Speaker 1: to make it different. Emily Joe, you mentioned childcare and moms.

522
00:26:25,000 --> 00:26:27,119
Speaker 1: Tell me about your work with the Alex Morgan Foundation

523
00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:28,480
Speaker 1: and the Coaching Mom's Initiative.

524
00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:32,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is something that you know. Credit to Alex

525
00:26:32,280 --> 00:26:34,320
Speaker 2: and her foundation leaders for taking this on in a

526
00:26:34,320 --> 00:26:38,480
Speaker 2: big way. Honestly, we had an athlete she was transitioning

527
00:26:38,760 --> 00:26:40,600
Speaker 2: from playing in the w to wanting to be a coach.

528
00:26:40,680 --> 00:26:42,080
Speaker 2: I was wanted to be a coach when she was thirteen,

529
00:26:42,320 --> 00:26:45,600
Speaker 2: Like that was her dream job, single mom, and you know,

530
00:26:45,920 --> 00:26:48,719
Speaker 2: again low pay for an assistant coach. There was no

531
00:26:48,840 --> 00:26:50,800
Speaker 2: way she could do it in a Ford child care.

532
00:26:50,840 --> 00:26:53,480
Speaker 2: It did not It just couldn't exist. The two things

533
00:26:53,480 --> 00:26:57,359
Speaker 2: could not exist. It was impossible. And so selfishly I

534
00:26:57,440 --> 00:26:59,520
Speaker 2: was out to brands, and I mean big brands, lots

535
00:26:59,520 --> 00:27:02,480
Speaker 2: of people, trying to get them to understand, like, you

536
00:27:02,480 --> 00:27:04,560
Speaker 2: can be a solution to this problem, and I got

537
00:27:04,600 --> 00:27:07,960
Speaker 2: no after no, after no, after no. Alex Morgan heard

538
00:27:07,960 --> 00:27:09,760
Speaker 2: about it her foundation. They picked it up in a

539
00:27:09,760 --> 00:27:13,800
Speaker 2: big way and Alex has provided financial support to coaching

540
00:27:13,800 --> 00:27:17,560
Speaker 2: moms and every time they've started this element of surprise

541
00:27:17,600 --> 00:27:19,080
Speaker 2: where we bring coaches in and we let them know

542
00:27:19,080 --> 00:27:20,800
Speaker 2: that they're getting a ten thousand dollars grant to be

543
00:27:20,840 --> 00:27:24,840
Speaker 2: earmarked towards childcare. And it is a very emotional experience.

544
00:27:24,920 --> 00:27:27,960
Speaker 2: It is unbelievable. The tears that I mean just women

545
00:27:28,040 --> 00:27:31,800
Speaker 2: are saying, we've actually feel seen, we feel heard. It

546
00:27:31,840 --> 00:27:34,720
Speaker 2: has been one of the most incredible works. Like I

547
00:27:34,760 --> 00:27:36,360
Speaker 2: can't even tell you what it's doing to me emotionally.

548
00:27:36,359 --> 00:27:39,119
Speaker 2: I'm not a mother, my mom. I'm the product of

549
00:27:39,119 --> 00:27:41,080
Speaker 2: a coach's kid, so I know what that world is like,

550
00:27:41,640 --> 00:27:44,320
Speaker 2: but just what is happening in that space and what

551
00:27:44,359 --> 00:27:46,919
Speaker 2: alex is doing And not only is you're providing financial

552
00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:51,320
Speaker 2: resources to these women, she has invested in telling stories

553
00:27:51,400 --> 00:27:54,240
Speaker 2: because we again, as we said earlier, the belief that

554
00:27:54,280 --> 00:27:56,000
Speaker 2: as we tell the stories of these women and the

555
00:27:56,040 --> 00:27:58,280
Speaker 2: work that they do and start to change the narrative

556
00:27:58,320 --> 00:28:00,919
Speaker 2: around what it looks like for women in coaching. I

557
00:28:01,000 --> 00:28:02,639
Speaker 2: really believe that we can make a big difference in

558
00:28:02,680 --> 00:28:05,400
Speaker 2: sports because sports are microcosm of society, and like, if

559
00:28:05,400 --> 00:28:07,760
Speaker 2: we can make real change here, maybe we can make

560
00:28:07,800 --> 00:28:09,960
Speaker 2: real change outside of what's happening across all of the

561
00:28:10,040 --> 00:28:10,919
Speaker 2: different industries.

562
00:28:11,320 --> 00:28:13,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, and to your point, sometimes people need to hear

563
00:28:13,240 --> 00:28:16,159
Speaker 1: specificity of here's how much money I was going to

564
00:28:16,200 --> 00:28:18,919
Speaker 1: be paid, here's how much it costs to send my

565
00:28:19,040 --> 00:28:21,240
Speaker 1: child to daycare every day while I'm at that job,

566
00:28:21,320 --> 00:28:23,640
Speaker 1: and here's how much I would have left to live

567
00:28:23,800 --> 00:28:26,400
Speaker 1: and this is the reality of the situation. And it's

568
00:28:26,400 --> 00:28:29,639
Speaker 1: not about men and keep getting hired because they're more qualified,

569
00:28:30,200 --> 00:28:32,320
Speaker 1: because a lot of times people fill in the blanks

570
00:28:32,359 --> 00:28:35,200
Speaker 1: if they don't hear the specifics. And you know, Nicole,

571
00:28:35,200 --> 00:28:38,120
Speaker 1: one of the ways your storytelling around this subject is

572
00:28:38,360 --> 00:28:42,320
Speaker 1: your Women in College Coaching report Card, which holds people

573
00:28:42,360 --> 00:28:45,239
Speaker 1: accountable for the choices that they make. Tell us about that,

574
00:28:45,440 --> 00:28:47,040
Speaker 1: and how long have you been doing it and what

575
00:28:47,080 --> 00:28:49,000
Speaker 1: do you usually try to get out into the public

576
00:28:49,080 --> 00:28:49,479
Speaker 1: using that.

577
00:28:49,920 --> 00:28:53,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, we started in twenty thirteen and we just looked

578
00:28:53,160 --> 00:28:55,560
Speaker 3: at kind of the Power five which is kind of

579
00:28:55,600 --> 00:28:59,479
Speaker 3: morphed into the Power five conferences in Division one college

580
00:28:59,520 --> 00:29:05,120
Speaker 3: athletics plus the American and the Big East. And we

581
00:29:05,200 --> 00:29:08,640
Speaker 3: started at forty point two percent in twenty thirteen and

582
00:29:08,640 --> 00:29:11,920
Speaker 3: we're up to forty seven point seven as of this summer.

583
00:29:12,600 --> 00:29:15,080
Speaker 1: And we'll see this percentage of coaches that are women.

584
00:29:15,240 --> 00:29:19,560
Speaker 3: Had percentage of head coaches of women's teams at the

585
00:29:19,640 --> 00:29:23,080
Speaker 3: what we call the Select seven conferences. And what we

586
00:29:23,160 --> 00:29:25,600
Speaker 3: do with the report card is we give a grade

587
00:29:25,680 --> 00:29:31,680
Speaker 3: eighth or less to schools, to conferences and to sports.

588
00:29:32,680 --> 00:29:37,160
Speaker 3: And the grades are very disparate, and we have learned

589
00:29:37,200 --> 00:29:38,880
Speaker 3: a lot. I mean, we could have a whole nother

590
00:29:38,960 --> 00:29:41,480
Speaker 3: pod tap and what I've learned from them, But what

591
00:29:41,560 --> 00:29:45,520
Speaker 3: I've found is athletic directors are very competitive and they

592
00:29:45,520 --> 00:29:48,720
Speaker 3: don't like getting bad grades. And I say, well, if

593
00:29:48,760 --> 00:29:50,680
Speaker 3: you don't like that, you know, it's like, oh, you're

594
00:29:50,720 --> 00:29:53,320
Speaker 3: shaming us. I'm like, I am just saving the data.

595
00:29:53,480 --> 00:29:56,120
Speaker 3: Is you want a better grade, hire more women. So

596
00:29:56,320 --> 00:29:59,560
Speaker 3: it's kicked up in the last thirteen years and in

597
00:29:59,760 --> 00:30:02,360
Speaker 3: eight years, if we go at the current rate of change,

598
00:30:02,400 --> 00:30:05,720
Speaker 3: we will get to fifty percent. So that's the good news.

599
00:30:06,200 --> 00:30:10,240
Speaker 3: But you know, we have schools like University of Central

600
00:30:10,280 --> 00:30:14,200
Speaker 3: Florida and University of Cincinnati that have had a's every

601
00:30:14,240 --> 00:30:18,040
Speaker 3: year on the report card. However, what it doesn't say

602
00:30:18,800 --> 00:30:23,480
Speaker 3: is are the experiences of those women at those institutions

603
00:30:24,080 --> 00:30:27,320
Speaker 3: positive That we don't know. It's just one data point,

604
00:30:27,400 --> 00:30:30,760
Speaker 3: but it does catch people's attention with the graphics and

605
00:30:30,800 --> 00:30:34,080
Speaker 3: the press releases and the data that we've put forth

606
00:30:34,160 --> 00:30:34,760
Speaker 3: over the years.

607
00:30:34,880 --> 00:30:37,080
Speaker 1: Anyone that stand out to you that you remember that

608
00:30:37,160 --> 00:30:40,680
Speaker 1: has like no women coaches or is consistently getting fs. Yes,

609
00:30:41,080 --> 00:30:42,160
Speaker 1: Emily Joe knows one.

610
00:30:42,200 --> 00:30:43,000
Speaker 2: Oh, I'm going.

611
00:30:42,840 --> 00:30:44,920
Speaker 3: At Emily Joe big reveal.

612
00:30:44,760 --> 00:30:47,360
Speaker 2: Kansas State, Right, that's that was an f with no

613
00:30:47,480 --> 00:30:53,480
Speaker 2: women coaches head coaches in their entire college athletic program.

614
00:30:53,680 --> 00:30:57,640
Speaker 2: And I remember vividly, you know, just opportunities that have

615
00:30:57,720 --> 00:31:00,880
Speaker 2: arisen and the opportunities for them to highire women coaches

616
00:31:01,200 --> 00:31:02,160
Speaker 2: and they have it.

617
00:31:02,520 --> 00:31:05,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, not a single woman head coach of a women's

618
00:31:05,880 --> 00:31:10,680
Speaker 1: team in any sport at that school feels intentional. It

619
00:31:10,680 --> 00:31:13,120
Speaker 1: feels like how could you not stumble into it?

620
00:31:14,240 --> 00:31:16,920
Speaker 3: And then you go to those athletic directors. Sometimes they'll

621
00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:19,760
Speaker 3: call me, well, you know, I really want to hire women.

622
00:31:20,200 --> 00:31:22,640
Speaker 3: I had women in the pool and I interview them

623
00:31:22,720 --> 00:31:24,720
Speaker 3: and they turned me down, so I had to hire

624
00:31:24,720 --> 00:31:27,840
Speaker 3: a man. It's like, have you ever asked them why

625
00:31:27,880 --> 00:31:30,200
Speaker 3: they didn't take the job, Like, maybe it's about the

626
00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:33,280
Speaker 3: culture there that they don't feel seen valued and supported,

627
00:31:33,480 --> 00:31:36,360
Speaker 3: or they can succeed there, so yeah, right.

628
00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:39,720
Speaker 1: Or you wanted a thirty five year old, extremely experienced coach,

629
00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:42,160
Speaker 1: but she wanted more money than the twenty six year

630
00:31:42,200 --> 00:31:44,480
Speaker 1: old man that was willing to take it for nothing

631
00:31:44,600 --> 00:31:48,280
Speaker 1: to get started, and you prioritized the cost over the

632
00:31:48,360 --> 00:31:51,840
Speaker 1: experience and everything else that the other opportunity might bring.

633
00:31:52,040 --> 00:31:53,960
Speaker 1: Emily Joe, what do you think people in the women's

634
00:31:54,000 --> 00:31:56,840
Speaker 1: sports space, of all the different many roles and people

635
00:31:56,880 --> 00:31:59,400
Speaker 1: that are listening that work in a lot of different

636
00:31:59,400 --> 00:32:02,400
Speaker 1: spaces in the women's sports industry, what do you think

637
00:32:02,440 --> 00:32:04,840
Speaker 1: they can be doing to help get more women in coaching.

638
00:32:05,240 --> 00:32:08,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, I've said it before, and it's it's a concerted effort.

639
00:32:08,840 --> 00:32:10,800
Speaker 2: I mean, it really is. You know, I have an

640
00:32:10,840 --> 00:32:14,000
Speaker 2: athletic director that I've spoke with. At one point, they

641
00:32:14,400 --> 00:32:16,600
Speaker 2: kind of just moved one of their male coaches up

642
00:32:16,680 --> 00:32:19,080
Speaker 2: into a head coaching role. I don't even think they

643
00:32:19,120 --> 00:32:21,600
Speaker 2: really interviewed other coaches, and it was a high level

644
00:32:21,600 --> 00:32:24,360
Speaker 2: coaching position. And I knew this athletic director well, and

645
00:32:24,400 --> 00:32:26,280
Speaker 2: I was like, well, I don't understand. I have a

646
00:32:26,320 --> 00:32:28,320
Speaker 2: client I would love, like would have been great here,

647
00:32:28,600 --> 00:32:31,440
Speaker 2: just even just an interview would have been worth the conversation,

648
00:32:31,560 --> 00:32:34,120
Speaker 2: I think. And I was like, well, he's he bought

649
00:32:34,120 --> 00:32:36,480
Speaker 2: his time, like it was his turn. I go, there's

650
00:32:36,520 --> 00:32:38,440
Speaker 2: a lot of women it's their turn and we aren't

651
00:32:38,440 --> 00:32:41,240
Speaker 2: even thinking about that. And I threw it out there

652
00:32:41,240 --> 00:32:42,760
Speaker 2: like we have to make a concerted effort if we're

653
00:32:42,760 --> 00:32:44,960
Speaker 2: going to make real change here. And this athletic director

654
00:32:45,000 --> 00:32:46,720
Speaker 2: was a woman. So I think it's going to take

655
00:32:46,720 --> 00:32:50,160
Speaker 2: a concerted effort on everyone's part to really look at this.

656
00:32:50,200 --> 00:32:53,400
Speaker 2: Obviously the work that Nicole does and like bringing us

657
00:32:53,440 --> 00:32:56,760
Speaker 2: the educational knowledge that we can take to use to

658
00:32:56,800 --> 00:32:58,760
Speaker 2: go back and actually like what I see what my

659
00:32:58,880 --> 00:33:00,640
Speaker 2: role in this is to implement and to try to

660
00:33:00,680 --> 00:33:02,800
Speaker 2: fight for the better for it, for more opportunities. But

661
00:33:02,840 --> 00:33:05,880
Speaker 2: I think a big one that's really missing brands. We

662
00:33:05,920 --> 00:33:09,160
Speaker 2: talk about their role with athlete talent and their role

663
00:33:09,200 --> 00:33:10,880
Speaker 2: in all of this space and what they're doing, but

664
00:33:11,280 --> 00:33:14,040
Speaker 2: brands coming in to tell the stories. We know Emma Hayes,

665
00:33:14,080 --> 00:33:16,040
Speaker 2: we know Becky Hammond, we know Don Staley and what

666
00:33:16,080 --> 00:33:18,240
Speaker 2: they do in the space, but there are so many

667
00:33:18,280 --> 00:33:20,240
Speaker 2: more coaches and in the work that they're doing that

668
00:33:20,240 --> 00:33:22,239
Speaker 2: we could tell their story, we can invest in them

669
00:33:22,280 --> 00:33:25,240
Speaker 2: in their programs, and brands could be a big, like

670
00:33:25,440 --> 00:33:28,240
Speaker 2: I think change factor for what this could look like

671
00:33:28,280 --> 00:33:31,440
Speaker 2: for women and would love to see brands step into

672
00:33:31,480 --> 00:33:33,720
Speaker 2: this role of like what we're doing with women and

673
00:33:34,120 --> 00:33:37,160
Speaker 2: market forward approach, put pressure in these universities to hire

674
00:33:37,200 --> 00:33:40,560
Speaker 2: more women, to hire the women that they're investing in

675
00:33:40,560 --> 00:33:42,320
Speaker 2: in that way, I think brands could play a really

676
00:33:42,360 --> 00:33:43,000
Speaker 2: big role in that.

677
00:33:43,440 --> 00:33:46,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, And there's such a natural connection there understanding what

678
00:33:46,280 --> 00:33:49,800
Speaker 1: we know about the power of the purse and women

679
00:33:50,680 --> 00:33:55,320
Speaker 1: dominating household spending and the influence that women have on

680
00:33:55,360 --> 00:33:57,520
Speaker 1: the things that their children by their husbands, by the

681
00:33:57,560 --> 00:33:59,800
Speaker 1: people around them, by if you have brands that are

682
00:33:59,840 --> 00:34:03,600
Speaker 1: now natural fit for the stories of women, moms who coach,

683
00:34:03,720 --> 00:34:07,760
Speaker 1: or just women who are successful business women. There's there's

684
00:34:07,760 --> 00:34:10,600
Speaker 1: such an easy through line there for them to connect. Nicole,

685
00:34:10,640 --> 00:34:12,799
Speaker 1: You've got your monthly newsletter Coaching Her, and it has

686
00:34:12,840 --> 00:34:15,880
Speaker 1: a section called her game Plan that gives us three simple,

687
00:34:15,960 --> 00:34:19,600
Speaker 1: actionable steps every month. So what are some of your

688
00:34:19,600 --> 00:34:21,960
Speaker 1: favorite go tos that listeners can start doing to keep

689
00:34:22,000 --> 00:34:24,680
Speaker 1: girls in sport. You know that's part of the pipeline too,

690
00:34:24,719 --> 00:34:26,920
Speaker 1: is if girls aren't playing, they're not going to become coaches.

691
00:34:27,080 --> 00:34:30,640
Speaker 3: Yeah right, Well, first of all, go on our website

692
00:34:30,680 --> 00:34:33,719
Speaker 3: at coachinghur dot com and sign up for the newsletter.

693
00:34:34,120 --> 00:34:38,080
Speaker 3: Then take Coaching Her is a free digital tool that

694
00:34:38,400 --> 00:34:42,799
Speaker 3: equips coaches to better coach girls and reduce gender stereotypes,

695
00:34:42,920 --> 00:34:47,799
Speaker 3: recognize their identities, support their needs, create period friendly climates,

696
00:34:48,000 --> 00:34:51,759
Speaker 3: and create body confidence in girls. So that would be

697
00:34:51,960 --> 00:34:54,239
Speaker 3: two things you could do really quick. And then I

698
00:34:54,239 --> 00:34:58,279
Speaker 3: think the third thing, whether it's women in coaching or

699
00:34:58,320 --> 00:35:02,600
Speaker 3: girls and women in sport, is ask the girls, Hey,

700
00:35:02,960 --> 00:35:06,440
Speaker 3: have a conversation, What do you like, what do you need?

701
00:35:06,719 --> 00:35:08,920
Speaker 3: How can I do better, whether you're a parent or

702
00:35:09,040 --> 00:35:12,040
Speaker 3: coach or parent coach or athletic director, ask the girls

703
00:35:12,040 --> 00:35:16,440
Speaker 3: and women what they need and then it's the ABC model.

704
00:35:16,600 --> 00:35:20,000
Speaker 3: Ask them, believe them when they tell you there's a

705
00:35:20,080 --> 00:35:23,600
Speaker 3: problem or that they like or don't like this, and

706
00:35:23,640 --> 00:35:27,200
Speaker 3: then see change, just commit. It's super simple. So those

707
00:35:27,280 --> 00:35:29,480
Speaker 3: would be my go to strategies.

708
00:35:29,719 --> 00:35:31,479
Speaker 1: I wonder do you know if there are any great

709
00:35:31,480 --> 00:35:34,439
Speaker 1: resources that are for the interview side of the thing,

710
00:35:34,600 --> 00:35:37,560
Speaker 1: the process that they actually will go to in selling

711
00:35:37,600 --> 00:35:41,000
Speaker 1: themselves to get these jobs, because is there any disconnect

712
00:35:41,000 --> 00:35:43,600
Speaker 1: there too? Where they are qualified, they are competent, and

713
00:35:43,640 --> 00:35:47,120
Speaker 1: they can't express that to the people hiring them, particularly

714
00:35:47,200 --> 00:35:50,279
Speaker 1: if those people wouldn't know the difference between the x's

715
00:35:50,280 --> 00:35:52,040
Speaker 1: and o's they're drawing up in the play calls they're

716
00:35:52,040 --> 00:35:53,960
Speaker 1: suggesting in the system they want to put in place

717
00:35:54,160 --> 00:35:55,040
Speaker 1: from a different one.

718
00:35:55,320 --> 00:35:58,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, we coach, I think we coach doing an incredible

719
00:35:58,719 --> 00:36:00,960
Speaker 2: job with what you know. I mean, they're really out

720
00:36:01,000 --> 00:36:04,120
Speaker 2: there implementing, you know, things that women coaches like, things

721
00:36:04,160 --> 00:36:07,200
Speaker 2: they go through and you know groups just like they have,

722
00:36:07,280 --> 00:36:09,160
Speaker 2: like conversational groups that they can sit and talk about

723
00:36:09,160 --> 00:36:11,319
Speaker 2: their problems together and say like, Okay, what can we do?

724
00:36:11,400 --> 00:36:14,400
Speaker 2: How do I talk to this ad and how did

725
00:36:14,440 --> 00:36:16,880
Speaker 2: this work for me? And what was helpful here? I

726
00:36:16,920 --> 00:36:18,719
Speaker 2: think they're one of the groups really doing the work

727
00:36:18,719 --> 00:36:21,400
Speaker 2: out there too and deserve a lot of credit for that,

728
00:36:21,480 --> 00:36:23,480
Speaker 2: but they offer some of those assistants as well.

729
00:36:23,840 --> 00:36:26,120
Speaker 1: Thank you, ladies so much for the time, so appreciate it.

730
00:36:26,280 --> 00:36:30,879
Speaker 1: Thanks Sarah, Thanks again to Emily, Joe Nicole for taking

731
00:36:30,920 --> 00:36:32,960
Speaker 1: the time. We got to take another break when we

732
00:36:33,000 --> 00:36:42,560
Speaker 1: come back. The dudes are all right, welcome back to places.

733
00:36:42,840 --> 00:36:44,400
Speaker 1: We love that you're listening, but we want you to

734
00:36:44,400 --> 00:36:46,200
Speaker 1: get in the game every day too, So here's our

735
00:36:46,239 --> 00:36:48,319
Speaker 1: good game play of the day. And for those of

736
00:36:48,320 --> 00:36:51,359
Speaker 1: you who do your homework every day, today's assignment is

737
00:36:51,480 --> 00:36:54,280
Speaker 1: kind of a freebeet check out both the Tucker Center

738
00:36:54,440 --> 00:36:57,239
Speaker 1: and the Collective. You may recall that we also linked

739
00:36:57,239 --> 00:36:59,440
Speaker 1: to the Collective's research earlier this week from my interview

740
00:36:59,440 --> 00:37:01,560
Speaker 1: with their love Yell. So for some of you who

741
00:37:01,600 --> 00:37:04,440
Speaker 1: and clicked already, your work is halfway done. We always

742
00:37:04,480 --> 00:37:05,880
Speaker 1: love to hear from you, so hit us up on

743
00:37:05,960 --> 00:37:09,040
Speaker 1: email good game at wondermedianetwork dot com or leave us

744
00:37:09,040 --> 00:37:12,080
Speaker 1: a voicemail at eight seven two two four fifty seventy,

745
00:37:12,600 --> 00:37:15,040
Speaker 1: just like Brent who left us this message.

746
00:37:16,080 --> 00:37:19,640
Speaker 4: Hi Sarah, my name is Brent. I live in Grand Rapids, Michigan.

747
00:37:19,760 --> 00:37:23,239
Speaker 4: This is my first time calling the voicemail line. I

748
00:37:23,280 --> 00:37:26,320
Speaker 4: was just listening to your show that you put out

749
00:37:26,360 --> 00:37:30,400
Speaker 4: with Julie Faudi and Aby Wambach, and I've been meaning

750
00:37:30,440 --> 00:37:33,160
Speaker 4: to ask and call in and just get your take

751
00:37:33,320 --> 00:37:37,080
Speaker 4: on how you feel when people say, you know, thank

752
00:37:37,120 --> 00:37:39,160
Speaker 4: you for all that you do for the women's sports space.

753
00:37:39,360 --> 00:37:42,120
Speaker 4: And obviously all of us that listen know how much

754
00:37:42,160 --> 00:37:45,120
Speaker 4: you put into it, but it's got to feel good

755
00:37:45,160 --> 00:37:48,399
Speaker 4: when people recognize that. And you know, not to toot

756
00:37:48,440 --> 00:37:51,879
Speaker 4: your own horn, but just like recognizing that you put

757
00:37:51,920 --> 00:37:54,520
Speaker 4: a lot into this space, You've thought a lot about it,

758
00:37:54,560 --> 00:37:57,000
Speaker 4: you fought for a lot of things, and I just

759
00:37:57,160 --> 00:38:01,440
Speaker 4: wanted to ask. I'm I'm such a proud slih. I

760
00:38:01,480 --> 00:38:05,080
Speaker 4: talk to all my friends about women's sports and it

761
00:38:05,120 --> 00:38:10,000
Speaker 4: feels a little odd sometimes as a Cis white man,

762
00:38:10,520 --> 00:38:15,440
Speaker 4: but it's nice to it's nice to just have this

763
00:38:15,520 --> 00:38:19,360
Speaker 4: community and feel like there's this fun vibe about good game.

764
00:38:19,520 --> 00:38:23,000
Speaker 4: And so I just wanted to recognize you for that

765
00:38:23,320 --> 00:38:27,480
Speaker 4: and to say that we're out here loving the show,

766
00:38:27,719 --> 00:38:30,319
Speaker 4: and it's got to feel good when your friends and

767
00:38:30,400 --> 00:38:33,839
Speaker 4: people that you respect like that call out how much

768
00:38:33,840 --> 00:38:37,040
Speaker 4: of an impact you've had. So thank you, We appreciate you,

769
00:38:37,160 --> 00:38:39,080
Speaker 4: and we'll keep listening. Have a great day.

770
00:38:39,280 --> 00:38:40,720
Speaker 3: Bye.

771
00:38:40,960 --> 00:38:44,680
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, Brent, no tears on a Thursday, Dude,

772
00:38:46,000 --> 00:38:49,440
Speaker 1: what a nice message. And I'm so glad you feel welcome,

773
00:38:49,480 --> 00:38:51,760
Speaker 1: because this really, truly is supposed to be a place

774
00:38:51,760 --> 00:38:54,520
Speaker 1: for any and all who love women's sports and any

775
00:38:54,560 --> 00:38:56,080
Speaker 1: and all who want to be part of a community

776
00:38:56,120 --> 00:38:59,600
Speaker 1: that doesn't suck. Speaking of that, I promise we're still

777
00:38:59,600 --> 00:39:01,919
Speaker 1: working on more ways to bring you slices together. We're

778
00:39:01,920 --> 00:39:04,400
Speaker 1: definitely going to have some stuff at the NWSL Championships,

779
00:39:04,440 --> 00:39:06,239
Speaker 1: So if any of you are going to be near

780
00:39:06,360 --> 00:39:08,879
Speaker 1: or in San Jose at the end of November, keep

781
00:39:08,880 --> 00:39:11,040
Speaker 1: an eye out for some info on hangs. Those are

782
00:39:11,080 --> 00:39:13,680
Speaker 1: coming soon. Ask for the folks that I respect and

783
00:39:13,680 --> 00:39:15,600
Speaker 1: look up to in the biz giving me my flowers,

784
00:39:16,440 --> 00:39:18,839
Speaker 1: like Abby Wambach and Julie Foudi the other day, or

785
00:39:19,200 --> 00:39:21,279
Speaker 1: like the incredible OG's Billy Jean King, and a lot

786
00:39:21,360 --> 00:39:24,120
Speaker 1: of cloths, like athletes and coaches that write in and

787
00:39:24,200 --> 00:39:27,520
Speaker 1: tell me that they're listening to the show. Yeah, it's

788
00:39:27,600 --> 00:39:31,480
Speaker 1: beyond rewarding. It is very moving, and some friends and

789
00:39:31,560 --> 00:39:34,799
Speaker 1: family will always text me after listening to episodes where

790
00:39:34,840 --> 00:39:36,640
Speaker 1: someone says something nice and be like, oh my god,

791
00:39:36,680 --> 00:39:38,880
Speaker 1: I can't believe fill in the blank said this about you.

792
00:39:38,960 --> 00:39:41,680
Speaker 1: That's so cool, and it is. I've worked in sports

793
00:39:41,680 --> 00:39:44,000
Speaker 1: for two decades and to do a show like this

794
00:39:44,520 --> 00:39:47,279
Speaker 1: that really means so much the folks who listen, that

795
00:39:47,360 --> 00:39:49,839
Speaker 1: really fills a gap and provides fans with something they

796
00:39:49,840 --> 00:39:53,200
Speaker 1: can't find anywhere else. I take it really seriously. And

797
00:39:53,280 --> 00:39:56,520
Speaker 1: when people sort of marvel at our tiny team putting

798
00:39:56,560 --> 00:39:59,280
Speaker 1: out a daily podcast, especially folks who do a weekly podcast,

799
00:39:59,400 --> 00:40:01,040
Speaker 1: like I don't know how you do this every day,

800
00:40:01,320 --> 00:40:03,720
Speaker 1: I tell them, Yes, it is a lot of work.

801
00:40:04,400 --> 00:40:07,919
Speaker 1: It is a ton of work, but it's completely worth it.

802
00:40:07,920 --> 00:40:10,640
Speaker 1: It's worth all the stress and time, and partly because

803
00:40:10,640 --> 00:40:13,200
Speaker 1: of slices like you, Brent, and the nice messages that

804
00:40:13,239 --> 00:40:15,359
Speaker 1: we get about how much people love the show. So

805
00:40:15,560 --> 00:40:18,919
Speaker 1: thank you for that super super nice message. And yes,

806
00:40:19,200 --> 00:40:21,000
Speaker 1: as much as I love to be the center of attention,

807
00:40:21,120 --> 00:40:23,920
Speaker 1: I actually sometimes struggle to take compliments to my face.

808
00:40:24,280 --> 00:40:26,279
Speaker 1: I prefer to read them in a nice card later.

809
00:40:26,480 --> 00:40:29,239
Speaker 1: So sometimes when folks are saying that stuff to me,

810
00:40:29,600 --> 00:40:31,680
Speaker 1: I get a little red in the face, but it

811
00:40:31,760 --> 00:40:34,919
Speaker 1: feels really good. We loved hearing your voice too, Brent,

812
00:40:35,040 --> 00:40:38,000
Speaker 1: So the rest of the slices don't be scared. Use

813
00:40:38,000 --> 00:40:40,239
Speaker 1: that voicemail number. We want to hear from you, and

814
00:40:40,239 --> 00:40:42,279
Speaker 1: don't forget to subscribe. Rate and Review. I tell you

815
00:40:42,320 --> 00:40:45,600
Speaker 1: every day. Scroll down five stars, tell us you love us.

816
00:40:45,680 --> 00:40:49,640
Speaker 1: You know it's really easy. Watch video compilations of kids

817
00:40:49,640 --> 00:40:53,040
Speaker 1: getting scared by Halloween displays, rating ten out of ten

818
00:40:53,200 --> 00:40:58,400
Speaker 1: yucks and giggles. Review. I will always always stop my

819
00:40:58,440 --> 00:41:01,240
Speaker 1: scrolling if I come across a video of someone getting

820
00:41:01,280 --> 00:41:03,960
Speaker 1: freaked the fuck out by a motion sensor Halloween display

821
00:41:03,960 --> 00:41:06,919
Speaker 1: in a store. There's like the moment that they think

822
00:41:06,960 --> 00:41:09,600
Speaker 1: it's coming, and then it does it, so they relax,

823
00:41:10,000 --> 00:41:12,719
Speaker 1: and then the you know, terrifying which or eight foot

824
00:41:12,719 --> 00:41:15,080
Speaker 1: tall ghost or creepy little doll or whatever springs toward

825
00:41:15,120 --> 00:41:18,240
Speaker 1: them and sense applying in the air. It's just so good.

826
00:41:18,640 --> 00:41:22,120
Speaker 1: It's too good. That's so good. Now it's your turn.

827
00:41:22,320 --> 00:41:26,160
Speaker 1: Rate and Review. Thanks for listening, See you tomorrow. Good game, Nicole,

828
00:41:26,400 --> 00:41:30,280
Speaker 1: Good game. Emily Joe. You to motion censor Halloween displays

829
00:41:30,280 --> 00:41:33,560
Speaker 1: that scare me. It's only funny what happens to someone else.

830
00:41:38,080 --> 00:41:40,560
Speaker 1: Good Game with Sarah Spain is an iHeart women's sports

831
00:41:40,600 --> 00:41:43,759
Speaker 1: production in partnership with Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment. You

832
00:41:43,800 --> 00:41:46,520
Speaker 1: can find us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or

833
00:41:46,560 --> 00:41:49,800
Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcasts. Production by Wonder Media Network,

834
00:41:49,880 --> 00:41:53,319
Speaker 1: our producers are alex Azie, Grace Lynch, Taylor Williamson, and

835
00:41:53,400 --> 00:41:57,320
Speaker 1: Lucy Jones. Our executive producers are Christina Everett, Jesse Katz,

836
00:41:57,400 --> 00:42:00,680
Speaker 1: Jenny Kaplan and Emily Rudder. Our editors are Emily Rutter,

837
00:42:00,760 --> 00:42:05,080
Speaker 1: Britney Martinez and Gianna Palmer. Production assistants from Avery Loftus

838
00:42:05,280 --> 00:42:06,880
Speaker 1: and I'm Your Host Sarah Spain