Speaker 1: Hello Sunshine, Hey fam Today on the bright side, women's
Speaker 1: sports is exploding, and yet at middle schools around the country,
Speaker 1: teen girls drop out of sport at twice the rate
Speaker 1: of boys. Author and award winning journalist Christine You is here.
Speaker 1: She'll share how we can empower future MVPs now and
Speaker 1: connect the dots between young female athletes and C suites.
Speaker 2: It's Monday, April fifteenth. I'm Danielle Robe.
Speaker 1: And I'm Simone. Boys. This is the bright side from
Speaker 1: Hello Sunshine. What did you do this weekend? Did you
Speaker 1: get some rests? Did you binge anything good?
Speaker 2: I actually saw one of the best movies I've seen
Speaker 2: in a long time. I went to go see Monkey Man,
Speaker 2: and I was totally blown away. It was one of
Speaker 2: the best shot movies I have ever seen. And I
Speaker 2: actually thought about one of our interviews from last week
Speaker 2: because color Me Courtney talked about how she wasn't invited
Speaker 2: to parties and so she just started her own party.
Speaker 2: And that's exactly what dev Patel did. He wanted to
Speaker 2: be seen as a superhero like Marvel film type characters,
Speaker 2: and people were not hiring him, and so he said, Okay,
Speaker 2: I'm going to write produce, direct, and star in this film,
Speaker 2: and it blew my mind. Everybody has to go see it.
Speaker 1: I can't wait to see it. It has been on
Speaker 1: my list for a date night. Husband and I are
Speaker 1: going to try and go see it together. But I'm
Speaker 1: so glad to hear that it was amazing.
Speaker 2: I actually want to hear what your husband thinks as
Speaker 2: a director.
Speaker 3: I want his feedback.
Speaker 2: But other than that, I just went for a sunset
Speaker 2: hike with one of my girlfriends and rested a little bit.
Speaker 3: It was a really good weekend. How about you.
Speaker 1: I have been binging Ripley on Netflix. I don't know
Speaker 1: what that is. So it's based on the story of
Speaker 1: Thomas Ripley. It was a novel that got turned into
Speaker 1: a film starring Jude Log, Gwyneth Paltrow, and Matt Damon
Speaker 1: and so now this is a series version of it.
Speaker 1: And it also is shot incredibly beautifully. I mean, it's
Speaker 1: just breathtaking scenes. It's all in black and white, so
Speaker 1: it's kind of a noir, has a noir feel to it.
Speaker 2: I can't watch anything in black and white. It drives
Speaker 2: me nuts missing out.
Speaker 1: It's really good. It's the first show that I've actually
Speaker 1: been addicted to in a really long time, because I've
Speaker 1: noticed that my fiction books, for the most part, are
Speaker 1: more entertaining than a lot of what is on TV
Speaker 1: right now.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's the phrase the book is better, and I
Speaker 2: think Harry Potter defied that for a lot of people.
Speaker 3: But other than that, usually the book is better.
Speaker 1: You're so right, Danielle. The book is almost always better.
Speaker 1: And I'm trying to read more as a night time
Speaker 1: routine as opposed to using screens or whatnot. But I
Speaker 1: have to ask you about this nighttime routine that I've
Speaker 1: been seeing on TikTok. People are putting perfume on before
Speaker 1: they go to bed. This is absolutely insane. This is crazy.
Speaker 1: I mean, we've all sprayed our sheets with like a
Speaker 1: smell good spray or a room refresh before, but putting
Speaker 1: on perfume to not even leave the house. You're not
Speaker 1: going outside. This is such a waste. I wear on
Speaker 1: tall from lay Labo. That stuff is so expensive. I
Speaker 1: can't imagine actually wasting it before bed.
Speaker 3: This is so not for me personally.
Speaker 2: I don't actually wear perfume at all during the day
Speaker 2: because I'm really careful and thoughtful about toxins. Like I
Speaker 2: have clean cleaning products. I try and use clean deodorant
Speaker 2: and so perfume to me is one of those that
Speaker 2: I'm really thoughtful about.
Speaker 3: And I just would not be spraying this at.
Speaker 2: All, let alone at night when you're not around anybody,
Speaker 2: Like wash your body, wash your feet, and go to bed.
Speaker 1: See. I would love to be a toxin free, scent free,
Speaker 1: clean girly, but I love the smell of a house
Speaker 1: that has been freshly cloroxed.
Speaker 3: Actually it gives me headaches.
Speaker 2: Like I switched over to vinegar and water and it
Speaker 2: works so well for me. But I don't quite understand
Speaker 2: why people are doing this, because are they doing it
Speaker 2: to smell nice for their partner or like what's the point?
Speaker 1: You know what? I will say that sometimes I will
Speaker 1: put on perfume before a Zoom meeting and I'm not
Speaker 1: going to see anyone, no one is going to smell me.
Speaker 1: But there is something about it being a mood booster
Speaker 1: or changing your overall demeanor. So I don't know.
Speaker 3: It's interesting.
Speaker 1: This is a funny question, Danielle. What is the last
Speaker 1: thing you want to smell before you go to sleep?
Speaker 2: You know, I do have like an essential oil mix
Speaker 2: that I have next to my bed that I spray
Speaker 2: on my pillows sometimes, so I like a nice scent
Speaker 2: on my pillows before I go to bed.
Speaker 1: I'd like that.
Speaker 3: How about you.
Speaker 1: I actually have a really toxic room spray that I
Speaker 1: love to spray on my bed. But that's to see
Speaker 1: that's different. I'm not spraying it on my body. It's like,
Speaker 1: you know, goes on the bed, goes in the air,
Speaker 1: in the room. It's great.
Speaker 2: Okay, Well, goodbye, tough guy, Hello, wellness brow. I read
Speaker 2: an article over the weekend in Fortune magazine about how
Speaker 2: more men are rejecting the alpha male stereo tip and
Speaker 2: they're going on these retreats to learn empathy. It kind
Speaker 2: of made me giggle, because like, I don't know how
Speaker 2: you need to learn empathy, but I'm glad that they're
Speaker 2: learning it. But in the article, they describe these support
Speaker 2: groups almost as like group therapy for men, and they're
Speaker 2: going into the wilderness as strangers, and then they're going
Speaker 2: to backpack, they meditate, they do cold plunges, and throughout
Speaker 2: it all they're having these guided conversations to learn how
Speaker 2: to talk about their feelings.
Speaker 1: I love this. I am in full support of this. Actually,
Speaker 1: one of my really good friends you and her husband
Speaker 1: run a company and this is what they do. They
Speaker 1: create these really lavish, elaborate wilderness retreats for men. They
Speaker 1: do like mountain biking, camping out, but like with like
Speaker 1: luxury meals and everything, and it's really really popular. They
Speaker 1: get a lot of celebrities wanting to go on these trips,
Speaker 1: so there's a huge demand for this.
Speaker 2: Well. Research shows that just twenty two percent of men
Speaker 2: said they'd turned to a friend in a time of need,
Speaker 2: which is very, very low. And another survey found that
Speaker 2: forty percent of men never talk about their mental health
Speaker 2: out of embarrassment. And I think it was worth sharing
Speaker 2: those statistics because there's clearly a huge need for this.
Speaker 2: We always joke on the internet like are men okay?
Speaker 2: But clearly they're not, like you have to get your
Speaker 2: feelings out, And so if it's they're doing it in
Speaker 2: a support group way, I love this. You know, I
Speaker 2: don't love that term toxic masculinity because I don't think
Speaker 2: masculinity when done right, is toxic, and so it's like
Speaker 2: kind of puts men down. But I'm hoping that through
Speaker 2: these support groups they find a way to like harness
Speaker 2: their masculinity in a way that feels good.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean those stats that you shared are pretty staggering,
Speaker 1: but also not all that surprising. I mean I see
Speaker 1: it in small ways. Even in my own home. I
Speaker 1: socialize with my girlfriends a lot, and my husband definitely
Speaker 1: meets up with his friends less. So I think in general,
Speaker 1: I think men are just socialized to have some shame
Speaker 1: around opening up to their friends and just being vulnerable.
Speaker 1: We know that that's been well established, So this seems
Speaker 1: like a really healthy way to reverse that trend.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I like it.
Speaker 2: I have a brother who's two years younger than me,
Speaker 2: and I saw firsthand the pressure that he felt to
Speaker 2: live up to a certain idea of masculinity or what
Speaker 2: being a man was or is. And there's such a
Speaker 2: small box for men. Like for women, you can do
Speaker 2: a lot of things and it's accepted. You can play
Speaker 2: a variety of sports, or be into art, or be
Speaker 2: into theater. I think when you're growing up as a man,
Speaker 2: it's like you're supposed to play sports and then you're
Speaker 2: supposed to go out into the world and make money,
Speaker 2: and there's not a lot of room for anything else.
Speaker 2: And so This is not me saying poor men, because
Speaker 2: you know there's.
Speaker 3: Plenty of stuff that they have an advantage in.
Speaker 2: But I do think it's hard to feel constricted to
Speaker 2: that box, and so talking about things must feel really nice.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't think we talk about that enough. That
Speaker 1: we deal with a lot of pressures, a lot of
Speaker 1: them external to look a certain way, to dress a
Speaker 1: certain way. But men deal with their own pressures in
Speaker 1: our society too, and a big one is that burden
Speaker 1: to provide if you're in a traditional gender role relationship. So, Danielle,
Speaker 1: I told you I'm going on that leadership retreat in
Speaker 1: a couple of weeks, and that actually sounds a lot
Speaker 1: like these retreats that we were just talking about for men.
Speaker 1: I'm actually really nervous about going on this retreat because
Speaker 1: there's going to be group therapy in situations where I
Speaker 1: have to open up and be vulnerable. So I think
Speaker 1: I need to shed some of my tough guy identity.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's time for your wellness bro energy to come out.
Speaker 1: This is my wellness bro era.
Speaker 2: Okay, so we talked about the guys, Now it's time
Speaker 2: to talk about the girls. There's this micro feminism movement
Speaker 2: that is popping up all over.
Speaker 3: My TikTok feed. Is it on yours too?
Speaker 1: Yes? I love this so much.
Speaker 2: Been are talking about small, intentional gestures that they do
Speaker 2: every day to help counteract the microaggressions that are baked
Speaker 2: into our everyday lives. I'm going to give you an example.
Speaker 2: One of my favorites that I saw was this attorney
Speaker 2: who said that she refers to people using she as
Speaker 2: the default instead of he. And if that doesn't make sense,
Speaker 2: it's like this, Okay, you call and you're trying to
Speaker 2: schedule a plumber, and so you say, hey, can he
Speaker 2: come out at eight am?
Speaker 3: We default he.
Speaker 2: So in every situation she can, she defaults she, And
Speaker 2: it's like this small little thing you can do to
Speaker 2: flip the script. And so my favorite one is addressing
Speaker 2: the women in the room first and asking for their
Speaker 2: ideas before the men.
Speaker 1: It's so crazy that that's even that we even have
Speaker 1: to label that as an act of micro feminism though,
Speaker 1: like that should just be something that's customary totally.
Speaker 2: But it's all these defaults, right, like not yielding on
Speaker 2: a sidewalk, listing women first on financial documents.
Speaker 1: Not yielding on a sidewalk. Can we rewind from second?
Speaker 1: What does that mean?
Speaker 2: This happens to me all the time because I'm five
Speaker 2: to one. Maybe it doesn't happen to you. But like
Speaker 2: people in general that are taller than me, but particularly men,
Speaker 2: expect me to be the one to move to the
Speaker 2: left or right if we're both walking the same direction,
Speaker 2: like towards each other.
Speaker 1: When you work in television or production, it's often assumed
Speaker 1: that the audio engineer is going to be an audio guy.
Speaker 1: You call him like the audio guy. So I've started
Speaker 1: to just refer to it as an audio engineer so
Speaker 1: that it's not a gendered term. Yeah, let's see. I
Speaker 1: like to confront cat callers and be like, what did
Speaker 1: you just say to me? How about you? Have you
Speaker 1: thought about anyways that you're acting out micro feminism?
Speaker 3: I try to hold doors for men all the time.
Speaker 2: I'm from the Midwest, so I hold doors for everybody,
Speaker 2: like I'm the one at the mall. That's like holding
Speaker 2: the door for eleven people to walk through. But I
Speaker 2: go out of my way to hold a door for men.
Speaker 2: Or when I was in college, I was a waitress,
Speaker 2: and a lot of the waiters that I worked with
Speaker 2: were like career waiters, and so they had all these
Speaker 2: sort of like tips, tricks, notions that I didn't know
Speaker 2: anything about. And nobody wanted to wait on a table
Speaker 2: of two women because they said that they tipped less,
Speaker 2: and so one, I don't think that's true, but that
Speaker 2: was a thing that they told me, And so I
Speaker 2: always go out of my way to tip really well
Speaker 2: because I'm like, I want people to know that women
Speaker 2: tip well too.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't. That's definitely not true. That's crazy. Another
Speaker 1: one that people are saying is an act of microfeminism
Speaker 1: is addressing women first on emails, like putting their name
Speaker 1: at the front of the list of all the emails included.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, that actually is interesting to think about in
Speaker 2: terms of like wedding invitations like missus and mister or something.
Speaker 2: I actually hate missus in general. I like there is
Speaker 2: no compliment for that. For men, everybody's a mister, regardless
Speaker 2: of if you're married or not, and so I just
Speaker 2: think everybody should be ms.
Speaker 1: That actually gets me thinking about the fact that probably
Speaker 1: my greatest act of micro feminism is not changing my name.
Speaker 1: All right, This next story is a perfect segue to
Speaker 1: our next guest Iowa's women's basketball team announced that they're
Speaker 1: retiring Kaitlyn Clark's number twenty two jersey for good.
Speaker 3: Woooo. This is exciting.
Speaker 2: We don't have a lot of women's jerseys retired yet.
Speaker 1: Very big news. So in a post on X the
Speaker 1: team said, quote, there will never be another Kaitlyn Clark
Speaker 1: and there will never be another twenty two TBD. I
Speaker 1: should be able to keep that number whenever she moves
Speaker 1: to the WNBA, and that draft is actually happening tonight.
Speaker 3: Says Major.
Speaker 2: Caitlyn Clark has been breaking records for the last few
Speaker 2: years and she's continuing to do so we're going to
Speaker 2: take a quick break, but when we come back, we're
Speaker 2: staying in the sports world with journalist and researcher Christine You.
Speaker 2: She's talking about sports science for women, sports culture in
Speaker 2: the US and how we can help more girls stay
Speaker 2: in the game. So we just talked about Kaitlyn Clark's
Speaker 2: number twenty two jersey being retired, and I'm so excited
Speaker 2: to see women's college basketball getting its shine.
Speaker 1: Me too, Danielle. I mean, it really does feel like
Speaker 1: a turning point in women's athletics. But the question now
Speaker 1: is how do we keep this momentum up and also,
Speaker 1: how do we support female athletes from the jump, not
Speaker 1: just when they've reached Kitlyn Clark's status. Christine You is
Speaker 1: an award winning journalist who's dedicated her career to answering
Speaker 1: these questions. Her book Up to Speed takes a closer
Speaker 1: look at girls in sports, and she reported that by
Speaker 1: the time they're fourteen years old, girls are twice as
Speaker 1: likely as boys to leave sports.
Speaker 2: She's here today to help us break down the research
Speaker 2: and find out what we can do to teach ourselves
Speaker 2: and the girls in our lives that a good body
Speaker 2: is a strong body.
Speaker 3: Welcome Christine, Welcome to the right side.
Speaker 4: Thanks so much for having me so excited to be here.
Speaker 1: Danielle, should we start by telling her a little bit
Speaker 1: about our relationship with sports?
Speaker 3: Yes, we have to.
Speaker 1: Okay, so both Danielle and I are athletes, but with
Speaker 1: a little bit of an asterisk because I like to
Speaker 1: say I've experienced adult onset athleticism. I love working out,
Speaker 1: I love staying active, I love fitness, but I sucked
Speaker 1: at team sports as a kid.
Speaker 3: I was totally in the same boat.
Speaker 2: I actually my parents joked I was an individual sports enthusiast.
Speaker 2: I did everything that didn't have to do with a team.
Speaker 2: I was an ice skater. I did like solo dance.
Speaker 2: Only later in high school did I do more team stuff.
Speaker 2: I did dance team. But Simone and I are self
Speaker 2: proclaimed athletes. Nobody has given us that title. No one,
Speaker 2: and we were curious about your relationship to sport. Did
Speaker 2: you have an experience or a personal tie that drew
Speaker 2: you to this research topic.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 4: I will also preface this by saying I was, by
Speaker 4: no means a very good athlete at all, but I
Speaker 4: just loved it, like I loved playing sports. But I
Speaker 4: didn't really start playing organized sports until fourth grade. And
Speaker 4: it was almost like an accident because I had switched
Speaker 4: schools at that time and my new school required us
Speaker 4: to play sports. So I almost feel like if that
Speaker 4: wasn't the case, I'm not quite sure I would have
Speaker 4: found sports in the same way. Because my parents, being
Speaker 4: very good, you know, Chinese immigrant parents, really wanted me
Speaker 4: to stay, you know, pay attention to school. But like
Speaker 4: I said, it really opened the door to like moving
Speaker 4: my body and knowing myself in a much deeper way.
Speaker 1: Christine, I want to get to the heart of your
Speaker 1: reporting and this staggering statistic. So, by the age of fourteen,
Speaker 1: girls quit sports at twice the rate of boys. Why
Speaker 1: is that?
Speaker 4: Yeah, when I came across that statistic, like, I had
Speaker 4: to read it multiple times because it is it is,
Speaker 4: like you said, it's staggering. It's just a huge number.
Speaker 4: And so we see between the ages of like around
Speaker 4: six and twelve, participation, right, betfre boys and girls are
Speaker 4: roughly the same. You know, by seventeen, fifty one percent
Speaker 4: of girls have dropped out of sport by that time.
Speaker 4: And it's again, it's this Banana's number that I think about,
Speaker 4: and I think about the all of the good things
Speaker 4: that can come from playing sports and being physically active,
Speaker 4: and how that impacts your health, how that impacts like
Speaker 4: just your person in general, and how we're creating this
Speaker 4: environment that really makes it really difficult for girls to
Speaker 4: be able to do that.
Speaker 1: But there are multiple factors that contribute to this situation, right,
Speaker 1: So can you walk us through those factors?
Speaker 4: Yeah, there are definitely a number of factors. One is cost.
Speaker 4: So when I was growing up, you had your team
Speaker 4: sport at school, or you had pe at school, and
Speaker 4: a lot of schools are cutting sports teams. At the
Speaker 4: same time, we've seen this rise of travel and club
Speaker 4: sports and this like specialization and professionalization of youth sports,
Speaker 4: and it costs a lot of money to play in
Speaker 4: those leagues. It's because this pay to play situation. And
Speaker 4: the research shows that there are disparities in participation by
Speaker 4: race and ethnicity and by socioeconomic status. So white girls
Speaker 4: and girls from higher income families have significantly higher participation
Speaker 4: rates than black and Hispanic girls and those from lower
Speaker 4: socioeconomic backgrounds. These white and higher income girls also tend
Speaker 4: to participate in like two or more sports as well.
Speaker 4: And I think it goes back to you know, what
Speaker 4: we were talking about in terms of cost, right, A
Speaker 4: lot of times it costs money to be able to participate.
Speaker 4: It's hard to get to these two sports practices and
Speaker 4: games all the time too.
Speaker 3: But that's across genders.
Speaker 4: Now, that's across genders for sure, but it definitely shows
Speaker 4: up for girls, and you know, kind of part and
Speaker 4: parsonl with that, you could also say that there are
Speaker 4: some gender beliefs around that too, Right, some families might
Speaker 4: think that it's more okay or acceptable or to invest
Speaker 4: in sports for their boys, because that's an accept did
Speaker 4: thing for the boys to do versus girls. Right, girls
Speaker 4: are supposed to be like feminine and you know, well
Speaker 4: mannered and not resolved exactly. So those are definitely two
Speaker 4: big issues around there. But for me, I think one
Speaker 4: of the biggest challenges is really just adolescents itself. Right,
Speaker 4: It's this period of time when girls' bodies are changing
Speaker 4: so dramatically and drastically, and it's not just growing at height, right,
Speaker 4: Your hips are widening, your developing breasts, your relationship with
Speaker 4: your body is shifting in such a way that you know,
Speaker 4: can be really uncomfortable in trying to understand how to
Speaker 4: then navigate spaces like sports and athletics where your body
Speaker 4: is really on display. And I've heard stories from so
Speaker 4: many women who have been made to feel like it's
Speaker 4: there there's something wrong with their developing body, with their
Speaker 4: maturing body that makes it unfit for sports. So, for example,
Speaker 4: you know, I heard from this woman Alex Reese, who
Speaker 4: was a ballerina from the time she was little through
Speaker 4: her teens and once she started developing breasts. She said
Speaker 4: her dance teachers were horrible to her. They made her
Speaker 4: feel really badly saying she needed to do a better
Speaker 4: job raining in her boobs right, or then would criticize
Speaker 4: her because the sports bra she would wear would show through,
Speaker 4: like they could see it right under her uniformer, under
Speaker 4: her leotard, without really, you know, understanding the fact that
Speaker 4: leotards really don't provide any sort of breast sport at all. Right,
Speaker 4: There's another woman, Maria Napolitano, who also was a super
Speaker 4: active kid, but then ended up giving up high impact
Speaker 4: sports like running in softball because she felt like her
Speaker 4: boobs were too big. She ended up transitioning to a
Speaker 4: sport like fencing, where you know, you wear a chest
Speaker 4: protector and you wear this big jacket so it could
Speaker 4: almost like smush down her boobs and cover it up
Speaker 4: so it was less embarrassing, it was more contained. But again,
Speaker 4: these stories over and over and over again from women
Speaker 4: who felt like they lost years of their athletic lives
Speaker 4: because they couldn't find sports for us. They were made
Speaker 4: to feel like their body was wrong or something was
Speaker 4: not right, and that it was just a misfit with
Speaker 4: being active.
Speaker 3: I actually really identify with that.
Speaker 2: I remember around eighth grade I started developing a chest
Speaker 2: and I felt shamed by teachers, by coaches, both in
Speaker 2: and out of sports. To be honest, what role does
Speaker 2: the shaming of girls developing bodies play all of this?
Speaker 4: Yeah, I feel like a big part of this is
Speaker 4: the fact that when we think about developing girls' bodies,
Speaker 4: it's often sexualized.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 4: We think about it in terms of reproduction, we think
Speaker 4: about it in terms of fertility, all of these things,
Speaker 4: but we just don't recognize it for what it is.
Speaker 4: It's just your maturing body. It's just your physiology, it's
Speaker 4: just your anatomy. It's just the way that your body
Speaker 4: is developing as you are maturing into an adult.
Speaker 1: Christine, I kind of feel like you wrote this book
Speaker 1: for me, because I definitely have some regret about not
Speaker 1: being part of sports and not sticking with a sport.
Speaker 1: But for me it was a different reason. Like for
Speaker 1: Danielle it was body image, for me, it was confidence.
Speaker 1: I just really had this pervasive lack of confidence and
Speaker 1: I felt so terrified whenever I was playing team sports
Speaker 1: that I was going to let everyone down, that I
Speaker 1: was going to fail. And I'm curious if through your
Speaker 1: research have you learned anything about whether women are conditioned
Speaker 1: to have a lower tolerance for failure.
Speaker 4: That's a really interesting question. What I have come across
Speaker 4: is some research looking at there are all these ultra
Speaker 4: distance events, right these like super long running two hundred miles,
Speaker 4: swimming across the English Channel, those types of things, and
Speaker 4: there's been research done on ultra distance athletes that really
Speaker 4: look at their motivation, and it seems women tend to
Speaker 4: be more motivated by the journey, if you will, by
Speaker 4: this sense of like really trying to see how they
Speaker 4: can improve themselves, see like what they can do better
Speaker 4: versus the outcome, versus I want to win this race,
Speaker 4: I want a podium. So that's the piece of it
Speaker 4: that I think is really interesting, in the sense that
Speaker 4: women tend to be, or can tend to be more
Speaker 4: intrinsically motivated in that way. But to your point about confidence,
Speaker 4: I think it's that's a really salient point too, right,
Speaker 4: because there are so many spheres outside of sports, just
Speaker 4: in life in general, where girls and women aren't given
Speaker 4: that space to be confident in what they do, to
Speaker 4: show up as their full selves. And what I think
Speaker 4: is interesting about sports is that it could potentially be
Speaker 4: an arena for girls to do that, right, it's a
Speaker 4: pretty self contained place where you can kind of try
Speaker 4: on these different roles, where you can experiment. I definitely
Speaker 4: felt that pressure of like I don't want to screw
Speaker 4: up and mess up for my team, But at the
Speaker 4: same time, you know, I think for me part of
Speaker 4: it was realizing too, it's also just a game, right,
Speaker 4: Like there aren't super real consequences to it. Especially as
Speaker 4: someone who's not planning to go play college sports or
Speaker 4: anything like that, it was an interesting arena to test
Speaker 4: those things.
Speaker 1: I think that's a better way of phrasing. What I
Speaker 1: was trying to get at is this idea that like,
Speaker 1: maybe as young girls we just put too much pressure
Speaker 1: on ourselves in the game, whereas boys don't deal with
Speaker 1: that same pressure.
Speaker 4: I feel like for girls, what's unique about sports is that,
Speaker 4: you know, for boys, they have so many different places
Speaker 4: where they can test that out though, where it's sanctioned,
Speaker 4: where it's like accepted. Whereas girls, it feels like sports
Speaker 4: can be one of these, like I don't want to
Speaker 4: say safe places, because sometimes it's not, but like it
Speaker 4: can be this arena where they can kind of test
Speaker 4: these roles in different ways and kind of test those
Speaker 4: boundaries and it allows them maybe to be aggressive, right
Speaker 4: to own their accomplishments. I mean, I don't know if
Speaker 4: you watch the women's NCAA game, but like, that was
Speaker 4: amazing seeing these women out there on the court just
Speaker 4: fully owning their abilities, their competence, their confidence in a
Speaker 4: way that when girls and women do that in other spheres,
Speaker 4: they're often criticized for it.
Speaker 1: I'm so glad that you brought that up, because it
Speaker 1: feels like we're really at an inflection point with women's
Speaker 1: sports where there's this huge buy in from the audience.
Speaker 1: Everyone is rooting for these athletes. But it hasn't always
Speaker 1: been that way. I mean, female sports teams are always
Speaker 1: competing for airtime. So how does that aspect, that representation
Speaker 1: factor impact young girls interest in sports?
Speaker 4: Yeah, it makes a huge difference. I Mean, it's so
Speaker 4: cheesy to say that representation matters, but it really does
Speaker 4: when you're able to see people who look like you
Speaker 4: doing things that you kind of dream of doing. But
Speaker 4: more importantly, too, I think, especially for women's sports, is
Speaker 4: seeing a trajectory right that you can go from your
Speaker 4: rec team to your high school team to be able
Speaker 4: to play in college, to be able to play professionally
Speaker 4: and sure not ever everyones can do it, but it
Speaker 4: creates this path where you see it is possible. You
Speaker 4: know other people have done it and maybe I can too.
Speaker 2: Christine, we're going to take a quick break, but when
Speaker 2: we come back, we are going to talk more about
Speaker 2: the benefits of sports and some solutions for how we
Speaker 2: can support our female athletes. Christine, I also want to
Speaker 2: talk about this stat. So eighty percent of Fortune five
Speaker 2: hundred female executives played sports in their earlier years.
Speaker 3: Eighty percent. That's astounding to me.
Speaker 2: There's such a clear line between team sports and leadership
Speaker 2: ability here. What do you think sports teaches us as kids?
Speaker 4: It is really fascinating to see that direct line, like
Speaker 4: you said, between sports and these executive positions and companies.
Speaker 4: And I think that you know, sure, it's sports teaches
Speaker 4: you teamwork, encouraging grit and all these things that we've
Speaker 4: talked about for sure, but I think again for girls
Speaker 4: and women in particular, there is something that's really different,
Speaker 4: and it is this sense of community that's amongst the players.
Speaker 4: Like you could be out there and you can want to,
Speaker 4: you know, be your opponent by like huge margins. You
Speaker 4: want to win this thing so badly. But off that court, right,
Speaker 4: there is such an admiration and a community amongst these
Speaker 4: players that I think is really different than you know,
Speaker 4: we might see in men's sports. And I think it
Speaker 4: really is that that community piece that's really unique.
Speaker 3: Here's the big question that I have.
Speaker 2: We just talked about what girls gain when they play
Speaker 2: team sports. What do they lose out on when they
Speaker 2: drop out of a team sport?
Speaker 4: Yeah, there's so much. I think. On the one hand,
Speaker 4: there's what we've talked about in terms of feeling the
Speaker 4: shame around your body and how lasting those feelings can
Speaker 4: be when you feel like your body's not right, and
Speaker 4: how that can lead to things like eating disorders and
Speaker 4: body image issues. Are potentially losing out on all the
Speaker 4: health benefits of moving your body as well. Right, We've
Speaker 4: seen so much of the research around the effects of
Speaker 4: sedentary behavior and how that's connected to chronic disease and
Speaker 4: all of that. But it's creating this negative relationship between
Speaker 4: women and their bodies and thinking about what their bodies
Speaker 4: can and cannot do.
Speaker 1: Christine, you go to high schools to educate administrators and
Speaker 1: students about this very issue. What are you seeing when
Speaker 1: you're on the ground there, are you seeing anything encouraging
Speaker 1: or positive strides that are being made?
Speaker 4: Yeah? I mean, well, one these girls growing up today,
Speaker 4: I mean they continue to blow me away because a
Speaker 4: lot of times I will do talks at schools and
Speaker 4: I will be interviewed by as student athlete typically and
Speaker 4: not only they're poise, but just the questions that they
Speaker 4: ask right about how we can improve the systems, what's wrong?
Speaker 4: Like what can we do, and really wanting to take
Speaker 4: a role in changing the systems right because they see
Speaker 4: what's wrong. So they are just amazing and incredible. So
Speaker 4: when I went to school, right, it used to be
Speaker 4: just the coaches, the athletic director, and like the athletic
Speaker 4: trainer essentially right kind of working with you. But now
Speaker 4: seeing kind of an expansion of staff to include wellness counselors,
Speaker 4: you know, mental health professionals, to include sports dieticians and
Speaker 4: nutritionists being able to come in to provide better information
Speaker 4: for how to nourish your body and make sure you're
Speaker 4: getting the energy that you need. Those are big things.
Speaker 4: But again, you know this emphasis, I'm really wanting to
Speaker 4: educate girls on their whole body and to talk about
Speaker 4: these critical issues that they're going through during adolescents, to
Speaker 4: talk about their boobs, to talk about their periods, to
Speaker 4: talk about the fact that their uniforms suck, to talk
Speaker 4: about the fact that you know, they're not getting equal
Speaker 4: practice times on the fields versus the boys. Like all
Speaker 4: of those things. They're attuned to it. They know what's
Speaker 4: going on, and they want to talk about it and
Speaker 4: change it.
Speaker 2: We grow up on the playground and boys will tease
Speaker 2: us and say we're not as great of athletes as
Speaker 2: they are. We all know that's not true, but I
Speaker 2: want some research to back it up. And you are
Speaker 2: the queen of research. So what have you found makes
Speaker 2: women naturally incredible athletes?
Speaker 3: What allows us to excel?
Speaker 4: For so long sports has been developed by men for men,
Speaker 4: And I think what's really amazing about seeing all these
Speaker 4: incredible athletes coming up now is the fact that you know,
Speaker 4: not only is it just the physical and like feats
Speaker 4: that they're able to do. And I think, you know,
Speaker 4: there's some research around physiology and what makes women's bodies
Speaker 4: potentially better at things like these ultra distance events and
Speaker 4: stuff like that, but again, I think it's it's more
Speaker 4: of this kind of intangible piece around the community, around
Speaker 4: the psychology, around the fact that, like a lot of
Speaker 4: us have been through a lot of crap, and we've
Speaker 4: put up with a lot of crap, and yet we've
Speaker 4: been able to accomplish so much already. Like, imagine what
Speaker 4: we could do without these barriers in place. Imagine what
Speaker 4: we could do if we actually had research and training
Speaker 4: guidelines and nutrition guidelines and injury prevention protocols that were
Speaker 4: tailored to us and actually took into account our lived experiences.
Speaker 4: I mean, just thinking about that and how that could
Speaker 4: lift up girls and women, I mean, I think, you know,
Speaker 4: it really is like endless what we could accomplish.
Speaker 1: That part that you mentioned about the lack of research
Speaker 1: on women's bodies, that is so crucial. But we always
Speaker 1: like to leave our audience with some practical, solution oriented
Speaker 1: tips here on the bright side. So for parents of
Speaker 1: young girls, how can we make sure that our daughters
Speaker 1: feel supported as athletes?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 4: My thing that I always say first to parents and
Speaker 4: coaches is it has to be health first, especially during
Speaker 4: this period of adolescence. Like, even if your kid is
Speaker 4: like the next great thing, your priority is on your
Speaker 4: child's health and wellness. Overall as a human being, not
Speaker 4: as a sports star, right, so that always has to
Speaker 4: be first, and I think again, really helping the girls
Speaker 4: understand that, yeah, puberty stinks, adolescence stinks, but it is
Speaker 4: just a phase, and so it's really important for parents
Speaker 4: to be that soft landing place for your kids. And
Speaker 4: then just lastly, I just wanted to add like, there
Speaker 4: are also really simple things that schools can do too,
Speaker 4: providing free period products in the locker rooms. Like adolest
Speaker 4: and girls, periods are very irregular and can be you know,
Speaker 4: all over the place and not always at the same
Speaker 4: time of the month, but having period products available makes
Speaker 4: it so that they don't have to go to their coach,
Speaker 4: who most often will probably be a man, and say, hey, coach,
Speaker 4: I can't practice today because I got my period and
Speaker 4: then feeling ashamed about it. Just make it available, Like,
Speaker 4: are there things we can do to make the uniforms
Speaker 4: not so exposed again because your bodies are changing so much,
Speaker 4: Like no one wants to feel super exposed when they're
Speaker 4: playing a game.
Speaker 1: It's already traumatic enough wondering when your period will come
Speaker 1: as an adolescent and wondering if it will strike when
Speaker 1: you least expect it.
Speaker 4: And I think the biggest thing that I would say,
Speaker 4: you know, to girls, to parents, to coaches, really anyone
Speaker 4: who interacts with girls, is keep it fun. Sports is
Speaker 4: supposed to be fun. Sports is this incredible tool for development.
Speaker 4: But when we like professionalize it and like make it
Speaker 4: super serious and competitive, we lose a lot of that
Speaker 4: joy and that fun. And that's really what it needs
Speaker 4: to be if we're thinking about kind of the long
Speaker 4: term trajectory of girls being active, because that's what I
Speaker 4: think what we want. We want girls to be active
Speaker 4: throughout their entire life, in whatever shape or form that
Speaker 4: might take. So yeah, remembering to keep the joy in.
Speaker 1: It that is so real. And that applies to fitness too.
Speaker 1: If I'm not doing workouts that bring me joy or
Speaker 1: make me feel good, then I'm just not going to
Speaker 1: work out. So you've got to be able to find
Speaker 1: the joy in it one percent. Christine, thank you so
Speaker 1: much for talking with us.
Speaker 4: Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 3: Thanks Christine.
Speaker 2: Christine you is the author of Up to Speed, The
Speaker 2: Groundbreaking Science of Women Athletes. You can follow her writing
Speaker 2: on her substack. Reading between the lines.
Speaker 1: That interview was really eye opening for me, Danielle. I
Speaker 1: liked how she talked about the need to arm girls
Speaker 1: with more information about their bodies and help them understand
Speaker 1: what puberty really looks like and what to expect, because
Speaker 1: I am very passionate about making sure all women learn
Speaker 1: about how our bodies work, because knowledge is everything.
Speaker 3: I feel that Simone.
Speaker 2: I really loved when she talked about community that's developed
Speaker 2: through sports. It's honestly another one of those things that
Speaker 2: I love seeing during March Madness. You would see the
Speaker 2: players just jump off the bench for their teammates shooting
Speaker 2: a three, And I feel like, because you and I
Speaker 2: didn't get to play team sports, one of the things
Speaker 2: that we should garner from this is leaving today with
Speaker 2: the goal of celebrating another female journalist or reporter, because
Speaker 2: this job really is a team sport. It takes producers
Speaker 2: and writers and you know, like our fates are all
Speaker 2: tied together, and that's what I love about sports.
Speaker 1: Yeah, let's bring that team sport ethos into everything that
Speaker 1: we do.
Speaker 2: Mm hmm, all right, tomorrow, we're swapping out our sneakers
Speaker 2: for some high heels, even if it's just for the day.
Speaker 2: Here to talk about fashion is the stylist, reality TV
Speaker 2: star and CEO Rachel Zoe.
Speaker 1: And that's it for today's show. Listen and follow the
Speaker 1: bright Side on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever
Speaker 1: you get your podcasts. You can find me simone Voice
Speaker 1: on Instagram and TikTok.
Speaker 2: I'm Danielle Robe at Danielle robe on Instagram and TikTok.
Speaker 2: That's r O B A Y.
Speaker 1: See you tomorrow, folks. Keep looking on the bright side.
Speaker 3: See you later.