1 00:00:02,720 --> 00:00:06,280 Speaker 1: Hello Sunshine, Hey fam Today on the bright side, women's 2 00:00:06,280 --> 00:00:09,520 Speaker 1: sports is exploding, and yet at middle schools around the country, 3 00:00:09,760 --> 00:00:12,399 Speaker 1: teen girls drop out of sport at twice the rate 4 00:00:12,440 --> 00:00:16,000 Speaker 1: of boys. Author and award winning journalist Christine You is here. 5 00:00:16,320 --> 00:00:19,800 Speaker 1: She'll share how we can empower future MVPs now and 6 00:00:19,880 --> 00:00:23,239 Speaker 1: connect the dots between young female athletes and C suites. 7 00:00:23,720 --> 00:00:27,000 Speaker 2: It's Monday, April fifteenth. I'm Danielle Robe. 8 00:00:26,600 --> 00:00:29,240 Speaker 1: And I'm Simone. Boys. This is the bright side from 9 00:00:29,240 --> 00:00:33,760 Speaker 1: Hello Sunshine. What did you do this weekend? Did you 10 00:00:33,800 --> 00:00:35,880 Speaker 1: get some rests? Did you binge anything good? 11 00:00:37,280 --> 00:00:40,400 Speaker 2: I actually saw one of the best movies I've seen 12 00:00:40,400 --> 00:00:42,600 Speaker 2: in a long time. I went to go see Monkey Man, 13 00:00:43,440 --> 00:00:47,800 Speaker 2: and I was totally blown away. It was one of 14 00:00:47,840 --> 00:00:50,680 Speaker 2: the best shot movies I have ever seen. And I 15 00:00:50,720 --> 00:00:53,160 Speaker 2: actually thought about one of our interviews from last week 16 00:00:53,240 --> 00:00:57,880 Speaker 2: because color Me Courtney talked about how she wasn't invited 17 00:00:57,920 --> 00:01:01,280 Speaker 2: to parties and so she just started her own party. 18 00:01:01,800 --> 00:01:04,880 Speaker 2: And that's exactly what dev Patel did. He wanted to 19 00:01:04,920 --> 00:01:09,080 Speaker 2: be seen as a superhero like Marvel film type characters, 20 00:01:09,560 --> 00:01:12,639 Speaker 2: and people were not hiring him, and so he said, Okay, 21 00:01:12,680 --> 00:01:16,720 Speaker 2: I'm going to write produce, direct, and star in this film, 22 00:01:17,520 --> 00:01:22,400 Speaker 2: and it blew my mind. Everybody has to go see it. 23 00:01:22,560 --> 00:01:24,920 Speaker 1: I can't wait to see it. It has been on 24 00:01:24,920 --> 00:01:26,720 Speaker 1: my list for a date night. Husband and I are 25 00:01:26,760 --> 00:01:28,160 Speaker 1: going to try and go see it together. But I'm 26 00:01:28,200 --> 00:01:29,640 Speaker 1: so glad to hear that it was amazing. 27 00:01:30,000 --> 00:01:32,240 Speaker 2: I actually want to hear what your husband thinks as 28 00:01:32,240 --> 00:01:32,880 Speaker 2: a director. 29 00:01:33,160 --> 00:01:34,400 Speaker 3: I want his feedback. 30 00:01:34,760 --> 00:01:37,480 Speaker 2: But other than that, I just went for a sunset 31 00:01:37,520 --> 00:01:41,200 Speaker 2: hike with one of my girlfriends and rested a little bit. 32 00:01:41,280 --> 00:01:42,800 Speaker 3: It was a really good weekend. How about you. 33 00:01:43,959 --> 00:01:47,160 Speaker 1: I have been binging Ripley on Netflix. I don't know 34 00:01:47,200 --> 00:01:50,320 Speaker 1: what that is. So it's based on the story of 35 00:01:50,360 --> 00:01:52,840 Speaker 1: Thomas Ripley. It was a novel that got turned into 36 00:01:52,920 --> 00:01:56,480 Speaker 1: a film starring Jude Log, Gwyneth Paltrow, and Matt Damon 37 00:01:56,840 --> 00:01:59,160 Speaker 1: and so now this is a series version of it. 38 00:01:59,720 --> 00:02:04,040 Speaker 1: And it also is shot incredibly beautifully. I mean, it's 39 00:02:04,040 --> 00:02:06,480 Speaker 1: just breathtaking scenes. It's all in black and white, so 40 00:02:06,480 --> 00:02:09,000 Speaker 1: it's kind of a noir, has a noir feel to it. 41 00:02:09,200 --> 00:02:11,200 Speaker 2: I can't watch anything in black and white. It drives 42 00:02:11,200 --> 00:02:12,360 Speaker 2: me nuts missing out. 43 00:02:12,400 --> 00:02:14,480 Speaker 1: It's really good. It's the first show that I've actually 44 00:02:14,480 --> 00:02:17,320 Speaker 1: been addicted to in a really long time, because I've 45 00:02:17,360 --> 00:02:21,280 Speaker 1: noticed that my fiction books, for the most part, are 46 00:02:21,280 --> 00:02:23,360 Speaker 1: more entertaining than a lot of what is on TV 47 00:02:23,520 --> 00:02:23,880 Speaker 1: right now. 48 00:02:24,280 --> 00:02:27,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, there's the phrase the book is better, and I 49 00:02:27,360 --> 00:02:30,000 Speaker 2: think Harry Potter defied that for a lot of people. 50 00:02:30,040 --> 00:02:31,919 Speaker 3: But other than that, usually the book is better. 51 00:02:32,160 --> 00:02:34,880 Speaker 1: You're so right, Danielle. The book is almost always better. 52 00:02:35,040 --> 00:02:38,040 Speaker 1: And I'm trying to read more as a night time 53 00:02:38,120 --> 00:02:41,720 Speaker 1: routine as opposed to using screens or whatnot. But I 54 00:02:41,960 --> 00:02:44,800 Speaker 1: have to ask you about this nighttime routine that I've 55 00:02:44,840 --> 00:02:49,480 Speaker 1: been seeing on TikTok. People are putting perfume on before 56 00:02:49,520 --> 00:02:54,200 Speaker 1: they go to bed. This is absolutely insane. This is crazy. 57 00:02:54,440 --> 00:02:56,880 Speaker 1: I mean, we've all sprayed our sheets with like a 58 00:02:56,960 --> 00:03:00,760 Speaker 1: smell good spray or a room refresh before, but putting 59 00:03:00,800 --> 00:03:04,080 Speaker 1: on perfume to not even leave the house. You're not 60 00:03:04,120 --> 00:03:07,320 Speaker 1: going outside. This is such a waste. I wear on 61 00:03:07,400 --> 00:03:10,760 Speaker 1: tall from lay Labo. That stuff is so expensive. I 62 00:03:10,800 --> 00:03:13,520 Speaker 1: can't imagine actually wasting it before bed. 63 00:03:14,000 --> 00:03:16,560 Speaker 3: This is so not for me personally. 64 00:03:16,680 --> 00:03:19,520 Speaker 2: I don't actually wear perfume at all during the day 65 00:03:19,600 --> 00:03:24,360 Speaker 2: because I'm really careful and thoughtful about toxins. Like I 66 00:03:24,400 --> 00:03:29,400 Speaker 2: have clean cleaning products. I try and use clean deodorant 67 00:03:29,720 --> 00:03:32,880 Speaker 2: and so perfume to me is one of those that 68 00:03:32,960 --> 00:03:34,240 Speaker 2: I'm really thoughtful about. 69 00:03:34,400 --> 00:03:38,360 Speaker 3: And I just would not be spraying this at. 70 00:03:38,200 --> 00:03:41,440 Speaker 2: All, let alone at night when you're not around anybody, 71 00:03:41,520 --> 00:03:43,720 Speaker 2: Like wash your body, wash your feet, and go to bed. 72 00:03:43,960 --> 00:03:47,720 Speaker 1: See. I would love to be a toxin free, scent free, 73 00:03:47,800 --> 00:03:51,440 Speaker 1: clean girly, but I love the smell of a house 74 00:03:51,440 --> 00:03:53,040 Speaker 1: that has been freshly cloroxed. 75 00:03:53,320 --> 00:03:54,720 Speaker 3: Actually it gives me headaches. 76 00:03:55,640 --> 00:03:58,480 Speaker 2: Like I switched over to vinegar and water and it 77 00:03:58,520 --> 00:04:01,280 Speaker 2: works so well for me. But I don't quite understand 78 00:04:01,360 --> 00:04:04,200 Speaker 2: why people are doing this, because are they doing it 79 00:04:04,240 --> 00:04:07,240 Speaker 2: to smell nice for their partner or like what's the point? 80 00:04:07,600 --> 00:04:10,560 Speaker 1: You know what? I will say that sometimes I will 81 00:04:10,560 --> 00:04:12,720 Speaker 1: put on perfume before a Zoom meeting and I'm not 82 00:04:12,760 --> 00:04:14,680 Speaker 1: going to see anyone, no one is going to smell me. 83 00:04:15,000 --> 00:04:18,479 Speaker 1: But there is something about it being a mood booster 84 00:04:19,000 --> 00:04:21,360 Speaker 1: or changing your overall demeanor. So I don't know. 85 00:04:21,440 --> 00:04:22,200 Speaker 3: It's interesting. 86 00:04:22,360 --> 00:04:24,599 Speaker 1: This is a funny question, Danielle. What is the last 87 00:04:24,600 --> 00:04:26,640 Speaker 1: thing you want to smell before you go to sleep? 88 00:04:27,160 --> 00:04:30,440 Speaker 2: You know, I do have like an essential oil mix 89 00:04:30,720 --> 00:04:32,320 Speaker 2: that I have next to my bed that I spray 90 00:04:32,360 --> 00:04:35,440 Speaker 2: on my pillows sometimes, so I like a nice scent 91 00:04:35,520 --> 00:04:37,240 Speaker 2: on my pillows before I go to bed. 92 00:04:37,240 --> 00:04:37,719 Speaker 1: I'd like that. 93 00:04:38,200 --> 00:04:38,720 Speaker 3: How about you. 94 00:04:39,120 --> 00:04:41,640 Speaker 1: I actually have a really toxic room spray that I 95 00:04:41,640 --> 00:04:43,720 Speaker 1: love to spray on my bed. But that's to see 96 00:04:43,720 --> 00:04:45,760 Speaker 1: that's different. I'm not spraying it on my body. It's like, 97 00:04:45,839 --> 00:04:47,719 Speaker 1: you know, goes on the bed, goes in the air, 98 00:04:47,920 --> 00:04:48,920 Speaker 1: in the room. It's great. 99 00:04:48,960 --> 00:04:54,400 Speaker 2: Okay, Well, goodbye, tough guy, Hello, wellness brow. I read 100 00:04:54,440 --> 00:04:57,320 Speaker 2: an article over the weekend in Fortune magazine about how 101 00:04:57,400 --> 00:05:00,800 Speaker 2: more men are rejecting the alpha male stereo tip and 102 00:05:00,839 --> 00:05:04,320 Speaker 2: they're going on these retreats to learn empathy. It kind 103 00:05:04,360 --> 00:05:06,400 Speaker 2: of made me giggle, because like, I don't know how 104 00:05:06,440 --> 00:05:08,719 Speaker 2: you need to learn empathy, but I'm glad that they're 105 00:05:08,760 --> 00:05:11,840 Speaker 2: learning it. But in the article, they describe these support 106 00:05:11,880 --> 00:05:14,440 Speaker 2: groups almost as like group therapy for men, and they're 107 00:05:14,480 --> 00:05:17,400 Speaker 2: going into the wilderness as strangers, and then they're going 108 00:05:17,440 --> 00:05:21,120 Speaker 2: to backpack, they meditate, they do cold plunges, and throughout 109 00:05:21,160 --> 00:05:24,760 Speaker 2: it all they're having these guided conversations to learn how 110 00:05:24,839 --> 00:05:26,279 Speaker 2: to talk about their feelings. 111 00:05:26,600 --> 00:05:29,440 Speaker 1: I love this. I am in full support of this. Actually, 112 00:05:29,440 --> 00:05:31,239 Speaker 1: one of my really good friends you and her husband 113 00:05:31,400 --> 00:05:34,200 Speaker 1: run a company and this is what they do. They 114 00:05:34,240 --> 00:05:39,440 Speaker 1: create these really lavish, elaborate wilderness retreats for men. They 115 00:05:39,480 --> 00:05:43,000 Speaker 1: do like mountain biking, camping out, but like with like 116 00:05:43,160 --> 00:05:48,200 Speaker 1: luxury meals and everything, and it's really really popular. They 117 00:05:48,200 --> 00:05:50,680 Speaker 1: get a lot of celebrities wanting to go on these trips, 118 00:05:50,760 --> 00:05:52,520 Speaker 1: so there's a huge demand for this. 119 00:05:53,200 --> 00:05:56,120 Speaker 2: Well. Research shows that just twenty two percent of men 120 00:05:56,200 --> 00:05:58,360 Speaker 2: said they'd turned to a friend in a time of need, 121 00:05:58,360 --> 00:06:02,440 Speaker 2: which is very, very low. And another survey found that 122 00:06:02,480 --> 00:06:05,479 Speaker 2: forty percent of men never talk about their mental health 123 00:06:05,480 --> 00:06:09,479 Speaker 2: out of embarrassment. And I think it was worth sharing 124 00:06:09,520 --> 00:06:14,280 Speaker 2: those statistics because there's clearly a huge need for this. 125 00:06:14,520 --> 00:06:16,960 Speaker 2: We always joke on the internet like are men okay? 126 00:06:17,640 --> 00:06:20,640 Speaker 2: But clearly they're not, like you have to get your 127 00:06:20,640 --> 00:06:23,240 Speaker 2: feelings out, And so if it's they're doing it in 128 00:06:23,279 --> 00:06:25,040 Speaker 2: a support group way, I love this. You know, I 129 00:06:25,080 --> 00:06:28,560 Speaker 2: don't love that term toxic masculinity because I don't think 130 00:06:28,640 --> 00:06:31,760 Speaker 2: masculinity when done right, is toxic, and so it's like 131 00:06:31,920 --> 00:06:35,920 Speaker 2: kind of puts men down. But I'm hoping that through 132 00:06:35,960 --> 00:06:38,760 Speaker 2: these support groups they find a way to like harness 133 00:06:38,800 --> 00:06:41,279 Speaker 2: their masculinity in a way that feels good. 134 00:06:41,720 --> 00:06:45,160 Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean those stats that you shared are pretty staggering, 135 00:06:45,200 --> 00:06:47,960 Speaker 1: but also not all that surprising. I mean I see 136 00:06:48,000 --> 00:06:51,840 Speaker 1: it in small ways. Even in my own home. I 137 00:06:51,920 --> 00:06:56,200 Speaker 1: socialize with my girlfriends a lot, and my husband definitely 138 00:06:56,520 --> 00:06:59,599 Speaker 1: meets up with his friends less. So I think in general, 139 00:07:00,080 --> 00:07:03,400 Speaker 1: I think men are just socialized to have some shame 140 00:07:03,640 --> 00:07:06,839 Speaker 1: around opening up to their friends and just being vulnerable. 141 00:07:07,240 --> 00:07:10,120 Speaker 1: We know that that's been well established, So this seems 142 00:07:10,160 --> 00:07:12,840 Speaker 1: like a really healthy way to reverse that trend. 143 00:07:13,120 --> 00:07:13,760 Speaker 3: Yeah, I like it. 144 00:07:13,920 --> 00:07:15,680 Speaker 2: I have a brother who's two years younger than me, 145 00:07:15,960 --> 00:07:20,920 Speaker 2: and I saw firsthand the pressure that he felt to 146 00:07:21,000 --> 00:07:26,040 Speaker 2: live up to a certain idea of masculinity or what 147 00:07:26,240 --> 00:07:29,280 Speaker 2: being a man was or is. And there's such a 148 00:07:29,320 --> 00:07:32,960 Speaker 2: small box for men. Like for women, you can do 149 00:07:33,160 --> 00:07:35,360 Speaker 2: a lot of things and it's accepted. You can play 150 00:07:35,400 --> 00:07:37,400 Speaker 2: a variety of sports, or be into art, or be 151 00:07:37,440 --> 00:07:39,600 Speaker 2: into theater. I think when you're growing up as a man, 152 00:07:39,680 --> 00:07:41,760 Speaker 2: it's like you're supposed to play sports and then you're 153 00:07:41,760 --> 00:07:43,520 Speaker 2: supposed to go out into the world and make money, 154 00:07:43,760 --> 00:07:45,679 Speaker 2: and there's not a lot of room for anything else. 155 00:07:45,840 --> 00:07:48,440 Speaker 2: And so This is not me saying poor men, because 156 00:07:48,760 --> 00:07:50,320 Speaker 2: you know there's. 157 00:07:49,720 --> 00:07:51,760 Speaker 3: Plenty of stuff that they have an advantage in. 158 00:07:51,840 --> 00:07:54,760 Speaker 2: But I do think it's hard to feel constricted to 159 00:07:54,800 --> 00:07:58,880 Speaker 2: that box, and so talking about things must feel really nice. 160 00:07:59,680 --> 00:08:01,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't think we talk about that enough. That 161 00:08:02,520 --> 00:08:04,720 Speaker 1: we deal with a lot of pressures, a lot of 162 00:08:04,760 --> 00:08:08,360 Speaker 1: them external to look a certain way, to dress a 163 00:08:08,360 --> 00:08:10,520 Speaker 1: certain way. But men deal with their own pressures in 164 00:08:10,520 --> 00:08:14,320 Speaker 1: our society too, and a big one is that burden 165 00:08:14,440 --> 00:08:19,800 Speaker 1: to provide if you're in a traditional gender role relationship. So, Danielle, 166 00:08:19,840 --> 00:08:22,680 Speaker 1: I told you I'm going on that leadership retreat in 167 00:08:22,720 --> 00:08:26,480 Speaker 1: a couple of weeks, and that actually sounds a lot 168 00:08:26,560 --> 00:08:28,640 Speaker 1: like these retreats that we were just talking about for men. 169 00:08:29,120 --> 00:08:31,640 Speaker 1: I'm actually really nervous about going on this retreat because 170 00:08:31,640 --> 00:08:33,800 Speaker 1: there's going to be group therapy in situations where I 171 00:08:33,840 --> 00:08:36,440 Speaker 1: have to open up and be vulnerable. So I think 172 00:08:36,520 --> 00:08:39,359 Speaker 1: I need to shed some of my tough guy identity. 173 00:08:39,920 --> 00:08:42,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's time for your wellness bro energy to come out. 174 00:08:42,960 --> 00:08:44,199 Speaker 1: This is my wellness bro era. 175 00:08:44,840 --> 00:08:48,320 Speaker 2: Okay, so we talked about the guys, Now it's time 176 00:08:48,400 --> 00:08:52,120 Speaker 2: to talk about the girls. There's this micro feminism movement 177 00:08:52,320 --> 00:08:55,520 Speaker 2: that is popping up all over. 178 00:08:55,320 --> 00:08:57,080 Speaker 3: My TikTok feed. Is it on yours too? 179 00:08:57,640 --> 00:08:59,040 Speaker 1: Yes? I love this so much. 180 00:09:00,120 --> 00:09:02,960 Speaker 2: Been are talking about small, intentional gestures that they do 181 00:09:03,040 --> 00:09:06,520 Speaker 2: every day to help counteract the microaggressions that are baked 182 00:09:06,559 --> 00:09:09,280 Speaker 2: into our everyday lives. I'm going to give you an example. 183 00:09:09,320 --> 00:09:12,119 Speaker 2: One of my favorites that I saw was this attorney 184 00:09:12,559 --> 00:09:15,679 Speaker 2: who said that she refers to people using she as 185 00:09:15,679 --> 00:09:19,200 Speaker 2: the default instead of he. And if that doesn't make sense, 186 00:09:19,200 --> 00:09:22,160 Speaker 2: it's like this, Okay, you call and you're trying to 187 00:09:22,200 --> 00:09:25,600 Speaker 2: schedule a plumber, and so you say, hey, can he 188 00:09:25,679 --> 00:09:26,800 Speaker 2: come out at eight am? 189 00:09:27,120 --> 00:09:27,880 Speaker 3: We default he. 190 00:09:28,520 --> 00:09:32,080 Speaker 2: So in every situation she can, she defaults she, And 191 00:09:32,120 --> 00:09:34,600 Speaker 2: it's like this small little thing you can do to 192 00:09:34,640 --> 00:09:37,840 Speaker 2: flip the script. And so my favorite one is addressing 193 00:09:37,880 --> 00:09:40,080 Speaker 2: the women in the room first and asking for their 194 00:09:40,120 --> 00:09:41,480 Speaker 2: ideas before the men. 195 00:09:42,400 --> 00:09:44,760 Speaker 1: It's so crazy that that's even that we even have 196 00:09:44,800 --> 00:09:47,160 Speaker 1: to label that as an act of micro feminism though, 197 00:09:47,200 --> 00:09:50,640 Speaker 1: like that should just be something that's customary totally. 198 00:09:50,640 --> 00:09:53,240 Speaker 2: But it's all these defaults, right, like not yielding on 199 00:09:53,280 --> 00:09:58,120 Speaker 2: a sidewalk, listing women first on financial documents. 200 00:09:57,880 --> 00:10:00,480 Speaker 1: Not yielding on a sidewalk. Can we rewind from second? 201 00:10:00,520 --> 00:10:01,160 Speaker 1: What does that mean? 202 00:10:01,520 --> 00:10:03,280 Speaker 2: This happens to me all the time because I'm five 203 00:10:03,280 --> 00:10:05,160 Speaker 2: to one. Maybe it doesn't happen to you. But like 204 00:10:05,480 --> 00:10:08,840 Speaker 2: people in general that are taller than me, but particularly men, 205 00:10:09,160 --> 00:10:11,839 Speaker 2: expect me to be the one to move to the 206 00:10:11,920 --> 00:10:14,160 Speaker 2: left or right if we're both walking the same direction, 207 00:10:14,559 --> 00:10:15,760 Speaker 2: like towards each other. 208 00:10:16,200 --> 00:10:19,360 Speaker 1: When you work in television or production, it's often assumed 209 00:10:19,440 --> 00:10:21,920 Speaker 1: that the audio engineer is going to be an audio guy. 210 00:10:22,320 --> 00:10:24,800 Speaker 1: You call him like the audio guy. So I've started 211 00:10:24,840 --> 00:10:27,160 Speaker 1: to just refer to it as an audio engineer so 212 00:10:27,200 --> 00:10:30,040 Speaker 1: that it's not a gendered term. Yeah, let's see. I 213 00:10:30,200 --> 00:10:33,040 Speaker 1: like to confront cat callers and be like, what did 214 00:10:33,040 --> 00:10:35,600 Speaker 1: you just say to me? How about you? Have you 215 00:10:35,600 --> 00:10:38,840 Speaker 1: thought about anyways that you're acting out micro feminism? 216 00:10:39,679 --> 00:10:42,559 Speaker 3: I try to hold doors for men all the time. 217 00:10:45,800 --> 00:10:48,000 Speaker 2: I'm from the Midwest, so I hold doors for everybody, 218 00:10:48,040 --> 00:10:50,080 Speaker 2: like I'm the one at the mall. That's like holding 219 00:10:50,120 --> 00:10:52,800 Speaker 2: the door for eleven people to walk through. But I 220 00:10:52,880 --> 00:10:54,640 Speaker 2: go out of my way to hold a door for men. 221 00:10:55,080 --> 00:10:57,319 Speaker 2: Or when I was in college, I was a waitress, 222 00:10:57,559 --> 00:10:59,880 Speaker 2: and a lot of the waiters that I worked with 223 00:11:00,440 --> 00:11:04,120 Speaker 2: were like career waiters, and so they had all these 224 00:11:05,040 --> 00:11:08,120 Speaker 2: sort of like tips, tricks, notions that I didn't know 225 00:11:08,160 --> 00:11:11,720 Speaker 2: anything about. And nobody wanted to wait on a table 226 00:11:11,800 --> 00:11:14,679 Speaker 2: of two women because they said that they tipped less, 227 00:11:15,120 --> 00:11:17,840 Speaker 2: and so one, I don't think that's true, but that 228 00:11:18,000 --> 00:11:20,080 Speaker 2: was a thing that they told me, And so I 229 00:11:20,200 --> 00:11:22,440 Speaker 2: always go out of my way to tip really well 230 00:11:22,559 --> 00:11:25,240 Speaker 2: because I'm like, I want people to know that women 231 00:11:25,360 --> 00:11:27,199 Speaker 2: tip well too. 232 00:11:27,520 --> 00:11:30,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't. That's definitely not true. That's crazy. Another 233 00:11:30,760 --> 00:11:33,080 Speaker 1: one that people are saying is an act of microfeminism 234 00:11:33,320 --> 00:11:36,640 Speaker 1: is addressing women first on emails, like putting their name 235 00:11:36,880 --> 00:11:39,760 Speaker 1: at the front of the list of all the emails included. 236 00:11:40,360 --> 00:11:43,320 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, that actually is interesting to think about in 237 00:11:43,400 --> 00:11:49,360 Speaker 2: terms of like wedding invitations like missus and mister or something. 238 00:11:50,080 --> 00:11:52,440 Speaker 2: I actually hate missus in general. I like there is 239 00:11:52,520 --> 00:11:56,079 Speaker 2: no compliment for that. For men, everybody's a mister, regardless 240 00:11:56,320 --> 00:11:58,080 Speaker 2: of if you're married or not, and so I just 241 00:11:58,120 --> 00:11:59,520 Speaker 2: think everybody should be ms. 242 00:12:00,080 --> 00:12:03,280 Speaker 1: That actually gets me thinking about the fact that probably 243 00:12:03,320 --> 00:12:06,840 Speaker 1: my greatest act of micro feminism is not changing my name. 244 00:12:07,160 --> 00:12:09,480 Speaker 1: All right, This next story is a perfect segue to 245 00:12:09,720 --> 00:12:13,080 Speaker 1: our next guest Iowa's women's basketball team announced that they're 246 00:12:13,120 --> 00:12:16,520 Speaker 1: retiring Kaitlyn Clark's number twenty two jersey for good. 247 00:12:16,840 --> 00:12:19,000 Speaker 3: Woooo. This is exciting. 248 00:12:19,160 --> 00:12:22,040 Speaker 2: We don't have a lot of women's jerseys retired yet. 249 00:12:22,240 --> 00:12:24,760 Speaker 1: Very big news. So in a post on X the 250 00:12:24,800 --> 00:12:27,760 Speaker 1: team said, quote, there will never be another Kaitlyn Clark 251 00:12:28,160 --> 00:12:31,679 Speaker 1: and there will never be another twenty two TBD. I 252 00:12:31,760 --> 00:12:33,680 Speaker 1: should be able to keep that number whenever she moves 253 00:12:33,720 --> 00:12:37,000 Speaker 1: to the WNBA, and that draft is actually happening tonight. 254 00:12:37,000 --> 00:12:37,600 Speaker 3: Says Major. 255 00:12:37,760 --> 00:12:41,040 Speaker 2: Caitlyn Clark has been breaking records for the last few 256 00:12:41,120 --> 00:12:45,240 Speaker 2: years and she's continuing to do so we're going to 257 00:12:45,320 --> 00:12:47,120 Speaker 2: take a quick break, but when we come back, we're 258 00:12:47,160 --> 00:12:51,280 Speaker 2: staying in the sports world with journalist and researcher Christine You. 259 00:12:51,920 --> 00:12:55,439 Speaker 2: She's talking about sports science for women, sports culture in 260 00:12:55,480 --> 00:12:58,720 Speaker 2: the US and how we can help more girls stay 261 00:12:58,720 --> 00:13:09,960 Speaker 2: in the game. So we just talked about Kaitlyn Clark's 262 00:13:10,000 --> 00:13:13,480 Speaker 2: number twenty two jersey being retired, and I'm so excited 263 00:13:13,520 --> 00:13:16,520 Speaker 2: to see women's college basketball getting its shine. 264 00:13:16,880 --> 00:13:18,640 Speaker 1: Me too, Danielle. I mean, it really does feel like 265 00:13:18,679 --> 00:13:22,160 Speaker 1: a turning point in women's athletics. But the question now 266 00:13:22,320 --> 00:13:25,080 Speaker 1: is how do we keep this momentum up and also, 267 00:13:25,160 --> 00:13:27,760 Speaker 1: how do we support female athletes from the jump, not 268 00:13:27,960 --> 00:13:30,920 Speaker 1: just when they've reached Kitlyn Clark's status. Christine You is 269 00:13:30,920 --> 00:13:33,880 Speaker 1: an award winning journalist who's dedicated her career to answering 270 00:13:33,880 --> 00:13:37,040 Speaker 1: these questions. Her book Up to Speed takes a closer 271 00:13:37,080 --> 00:13:39,959 Speaker 1: look at girls in sports, and she reported that by 272 00:13:40,000 --> 00:13:43,360 Speaker 1: the time they're fourteen years old, girls are twice as 273 00:13:43,480 --> 00:13:45,440 Speaker 1: likely as boys to leave sports. 274 00:13:45,679 --> 00:13:48,040 Speaker 2: She's here today to help us break down the research 275 00:13:48,400 --> 00:13:51,000 Speaker 2: and find out what we can do to teach ourselves 276 00:13:51,400 --> 00:13:53,840 Speaker 2: and the girls in our lives that a good body 277 00:13:54,320 --> 00:13:55,720 Speaker 2: is a strong body. 278 00:13:56,320 --> 00:13:58,600 Speaker 3: Welcome Christine, Welcome to the right side. 279 00:13:58,679 --> 00:14:00,960 Speaker 4: Thanks so much for having me so excited to be here. 280 00:14:01,679 --> 00:14:03,720 Speaker 1: Danielle, should we start by telling her a little bit 281 00:14:03,720 --> 00:14:05,760 Speaker 1: about our relationship with sports? 282 00:14:06,040 --> 00:14:06,960 Speaker 3: Yes, we have to. 283 00:14:07,240 --> 00:14:09,920 Speaker 1: Okay, so both Danielle and I are athletes, but with 284 00:14:09,960 --> 00:14:13,040 Speaker 1: a little bit of an asterisk because I like to 285 00:14:13,040 --> 00:14:17,200 Speaker 1: say I've experienced adult onset athleticism. I love working out, 286 00:14:17,280 --> 00:14:20,880 Speaker 1: I love staying active, I love fitness, but I sucked 287 00:14:20,960 --> 00:14:22,400 Speaker 1: at team sports as a kid. 288 00:14:22,680 --> 00:14:24,240 Speaker 3: I was totally in the same boat. 289 00:14:24,600 --> 00:14:28,800 Speaker 2: I actually my parents joked I was an individual sports enthusiast. 290 00:14:28,840 --> 00:14:31,120 Speaker 2: I did everything that didn't have to do with a team. 291 00:14:31,200 --> 00:14:35,080 Speaker 2: I was an ice skater. I did like solo dance. 292 00:14:36,680 --> 00:14:39,960 Speaker 2: Only later in high school did I do more team stuff. 293 00:14:39,960 --> 00:14:42,520 Speaker 2: I did dance team. But Simone and I are self 294 00:14:42,520 --> 00:14:45,560 Speaker 2: proclaimed athletes. Nobody has given us that title. No one, 295 00:14:45,800 --> 00:14:49,960 Speaker 2: and we were curious about your relationship to sport. Did 296 00:14:50,000 --> 00:14:54,280 Speaker 2: you have an experience or a personal tie that drew 297 00:14:54,320 --> 00:14:55,520 Speaker 2: you to this research topic. 298 00:14:55,920 --> 00:14:56,200 Speaker 1: Yeah. 299 00:14:56,280 --> 00:14:58,720 Speaker 4: I will also preface this by saying I was, by 300 00:14:58,760 --> 00:15:01,600 Speaker 4: no means a very good athlete at all, but I 301 00:15:01,640 --> 00:15:03,520 Speaker 4: just loved it, like I loved playing sports. But I 302 00:15:03,560 --> 00:15:06,600 Speaker 4: didn't really start playing organized sports until fourth grade. And 303 00:15:06,640 --> 00:15:09,880 Speaker 4: it was almost like an accident because I had switched 304 00:15:09,880 --> 00:15:13,320 Speaker 4: schools at that time and my new school required us 305 00:15:13,320 --> 00:15:15,280 Speaker 4: to play sports. So I almost feel like if that 306 00:15:15,560 --> 00:15:18,240 Speaker 4: wasn't the case, I'm not quite sure I would have 307 00:15:18,280 --> 00:15:21,320 Speaker 4: found sports in the same way. Because my parents, being 308 00:15:21,400 --> 00:15:24,200 Speaker 4: very good, you know, Chinese immigrant parents, really wanted me 309 00:15:24,360 --> 00:15:27,240 Speaker 4: to stay, you know, pay attention to school. But like 310 00:15:27,280 --> 00:15:30,400 Speaker 4: I said, it really opened the door to like moving 311 00:15:30,440 --> 00:15:33,040 Speaker 4: my body and knowing myself in a much deeper way. 312 00:15:33,840 --> 00:15:35,480 Speaker 1: Christine, I want to get to the heart of your 313 00:15:35,520 --> 00:15:39,840 Speaker 1: reporting and this staggering statistic. So, by the age of fourteen, 314 00:15:40,040 --> 00:15:44,120 Speaker 1: girls quit sports at twice the rate of boys. Why 315 00:15:44,320 --> 00:15:44,600 Speaker 1: is that? 316 00:15:45,760 --> 00:15:49,640 Speaker 4: Yeah, when I came across that statistic, like, I had 317 00:15:49,640 --> 00:15:52,640 Speaker 4: to read it multiple times because it is it is, 318 00:15:52,680 --> 00:15:55,200 Speaker 4: like you said, it's staggering. It's just a huge number. 319 00:15:55,720 --> 00:15:58,040 Speaker 4: And so we see between the ages of like around 320 00:15:58,080 --> 00:16:00,880 Speaker 4: six and twelve, participation, right, betfre boys and girls are 321 00:16:00,960 --> 00:16:03,920 Speaker 4: roughly the same. You know, by seventeen, fifty one percent 322 00:16:03,960 --> 00:16:06,200 Speaker 4: of girls have dropped out of sport by that time. 323 00:16:06,640 --> 00:16:10,840 Speaker 4: And it's again, it's this Banana's number that I think about, 324 00:16:10,920 --> 00:16:13,520 Speaker 4: and I think about the all of the good things 325 00:16:13,560 --> 00:16:17,320 Speaker 4: that can come from playing sports and being physically active, 326 00:16:17,480 --> 00:16:19,800 Speaker 4: and how that impacts your health, how that impacts like 327 00:16:20,360 --> 00:16:23,920 Speaker 4: just your person in general, and how we're creating this 328 00:16:24,120 --> 00:16:27,000 Speaker 4: environment that really makes it really difficult for girls to 329 00:16:27,040 --> 00:16:27,800 Speaker 4: be able to do that. 330 00:16:28,040 --> 00:16:32,600 Speaker 1: But there are multiple factors that contribute to this situation, right, 331 00:16:32,680 --> 00:16:35,200 Speaker 1: So can you walk us through those factors? 332 00:16:35,760 --> 00:16:39,520 Speaker 4: Yeah, there are definitely a number of factors. One is cost. 333 00:16:39,760 --> 00:16:43,440 Speaker 4: So when I was growing up, you had your team 334 00:16:43,480 --> 00:16:45,920 Speaker 4: sport at school, or you had pe at school, and 335 00:16:46,080 --> 00:16:49,040 Speaker 4: a lot of schools are cutting sports teams. At the 336 00:16:49,080 --> 00:16:52,160 Speaker 4: same time, we've seen this rise of travel and club 337 00:16:52,200 --> 00:16:56,000 Speaker 4: sports and this like specialization and professionalization of youth sports, 338 00:16:56,280 --> 00:16:58,760 Speaker 4: and it costs a lot of money to play in 339 00:16:58,800 --> 00:17:02,760 Speaker 4: those leagues. It's because this pay to play situation. And 340 00:17:02,920 --> 00:17:06,200 Speaker 4: the research shows that there are disparities in participation by 341 00:17:06,280 --> 00:17:10,680 Speaker 4: race and ethnicity and by socioeconomic status. So white girls 342 00:17:10,680 --> 00:17:14,720 Speaker 4: and girls from higher income families have significantly higher participation 343 00:17:14,840 --> 00:17:18,439 Speaker 4: rates than black and Hispanic girls and those from lower 344 00:17:18,440 --> 00:17:23,640 Speaker 4: socioeconomic backgrounds. These white and higher income girls also tend 345 00:17:23,680 --> 00:17:26,080 Speaker 4: to participate in like two or more sports as well. 346 00:17:26,480 --> 00:17:29,119 Speaker 4: And I think it goes back to you know, what 347 00:17:29,160 --> 00:17:31,240 Speaker 4: we were talking about in terms of cost, right, A 348 00:17:31,320 --> 00:17:34,000 Speaker 4: lot of times it costs money to be able to participate. 349 00:17:34,200 --> 00:17:36,800 Speaker 4: It's hard to get to these two sports practices and 350 00:17:36,840 --> 00:17:37,960 Speaker 4: games all the time too. 351 00:17:38,200 --> 00:17:39,480 Speaker 3: But that's across genders. 352 00:17:39,560 --> 00:17:43,440 Speaker 4: Now, that's across genders for sure, but it definitely shows 353 00:17:43,520 --> 00:17:46,280 Speaker 4: up for girls, and you know, kind of part and 354 00:17:46,280 --> 00:17:48,479 Speaker 4: parsonl with that, you could also say that there are 355 00:17:48,520 --> 00:17:52,000 Speaker 4: some gender beliefs around that too, Right, some families might 356 00:17:52,080 --> 00:17:56,760 Speaker 4: think that it's more okay or acceptable or to invest 357 00:17:56,960 --> 00:18:00,320 Speaker 4: in sports for their boys, because that's an accept did 358 00:18:00,440 --> 00:18:03,359 Speaker 4: thing for the boys to do versus girls. Right, girls 359 00:18:03,400 --> 00:18:06,240 Speaker 4: are supposed to be like feminine and you know, well 360 00:18:06,280 --> 00:18:11,400 Speaker 4: mannered and not resolved exactly. So those are definitely two 361 00:18:11,520 --> 00:18:15,120 Speaker 4: big issues around there. But for me, I think one 362 00:18:15,160 --> 00:18:18,640 Speaker 4: of the biggest challenges is really just adolescents itself. Right, 363 00:18:18,720 --> 00:18:23,320 Speaker 4: It's this period of time when girls' bodies are changing 364 00:18:23,480 --> 00:18:27,680 Speaker 4: so dramatically and drastically, and it's not just growing at height, right, 365 00:18:27,760 --> 00:18:31,679 Speaker 4: Your hips are widening, your developing breasts, your relationship with 366 00:18:31,720 --> 00:18:34,520 Speaker 4: your body is shifting in such a way that you know, 367 00:18:34,680 --> 00:18:38,080 Speaker 4: can be really uncomfortable in trying to understand how to 368 00:18:38,160 --> 00:18:42,040 Speaker 4: then navigate spaces like sports and athletics where your body 369 00:18:42,080 --> 00:18:45,960 Speaker 4: is really on display. And I've heard stories from so 370 00:18:46,080 --> 00:18:50,480 Speaker 4: many women who have been made to feel like it's 371 00:18:50,720 --> 00:18:54,120 Speaker 4: there there's something wrong with their developing body, with their 372 00:18:54,160 --> 00:18:58,400 Speaker 4: maturing body that makes it unfit for sports. So, for example, 373 00:18:58,600 --> 00:19:01,200 Speaker 4: you know, I heard from this woman Alex Reese, who 374 00:19:01,240 --> 00:19:03,800 Speaker 4: was a ballerina from the time she was little through 375 00:19:03,840 --> 00:19:08,240 Speaker 4: her teens and once she started developing breasts. She said 376 00:19:08,280 --> 00:19:10,560 Speaker 4: her dance teachers were horrible to her. They made her 377 00:19:10,560 --> 00:19:13,120 Speaker 4: feel really badly saying she needed to do a better 378 00:19:13,200 --> 00:19:16,680 Speaker 4: job raining in her boobs right, or then would criticize 379 00:19:16,720 --> 00:19:19,520 Speaker 4: her because the sports bra she would wear would show through, 380 00:19:19,680 --> 00:19:21,920 Speaker 4: like they could see it right under her uniformer, under 381 00:19:21,920 --> 00:19:25,760 Speaker 4: her leotard, without really, you know, understanding the fact that 382 00:19:25,840 --> 00:19:29,680 Speaker 4: leotards really don't provide any sort of breast sport at all. Right, 383 00:19:30,119 --> 00:19:34,119 Speaker 4: There's another woman, Maria Napolitano, who also was a super 384 00:19:34,160 --> 00:19:36,800 Speaker 4: active kid, but then ended up giving up high impact 385 00:19:36,840 --> 00:19:40,439 Speaker 4: sports like running in softball because she felt like her 386 00:19:40,440 --> 00:19:43,000 Speaker 4: boobs were too big. She ended up transitioning to a 387 00:19:43,000 --> 00:19:45,560 Speaker 4: sport like fencing, where you know, you wear a chest 388 00:19:45,560 --> 00:19:47,920 Speaker 4: protector and you wear this big jacket so it could 389 00:19:47,920 --> 00:19:50,439 Speaker 4: almost like smush down her boobs and cover it up 390 00:19:50,520 --> 00:19:54,040 Speaker 4: so it was less embarrassing, it was more contained. But again, 391 00:19:54,119 --> 00:19:57,359 Speaker 4: these stories over and over and over again from women 392 00:19:57,440 --> 00:20:01,440 Speaker 4: who felt like they lost years of their athletic lives 393 00:20:01,800 --> 00:20:04,560 Speaker 4: because they couldn't find sports for us. They were made 394 00:20:04,560 --> 00:20:06,639 Speaker 4: to feel like their body was wrong or something was 395 00:20:06,800 --> 00:20:09,399 Speaker 4: not right, and that it was just a misfit with 396 00:20:09,520 --> 00:20:10,159 Speaker 4: being active. 397 00:20:11,119 --> 00:20:13,000 Speaker 3: I actually really identify with that. 398 00:20:13,240 --> 00:20:16,359 Speaker 2: I remember around eighth grade I started developing a chest 399 00:20:16,640 --> 00:20:21,159 Speaker 2: and I felt shamed by teachers, by coaches, both in 400 00:20:21,240 --> 00:20:24,360 Speaker 2: and out of sports. To be honest, what role does 401 00:20:24,400 --> 00:20:27,439 Speaker 2: the shaming of girls developing bodies play all of this? 402 00:20:27,840 --> 00:20:30,440 Speaker 4: Yeah, I feel like a big part of this is 403 00:20:30,480 --> 00:20:34,440 Speaker 4: the fact that when we think about developing girls' bodies, 404 00:20:34,560 --> 00:20:35,840 Speaker 4: it's often sexualized. 405 00:20:35,960 --> 00:20:36,120 Speaker 2: Right. 406 00:20:36,160 --> 00:20:38,280 Speaker 4: We think about it in terms of reproduction, we think 407 00:20:38,280 --> 00:20:40,680 Speaker 4: about it in terms of fertility, all of these things, 408 00:20:41,040 --> 00:20:43,879 Speaker 4: but we just don't recognize it for what it is. 409 00:20:44,160 --> 00:20:47,080 Speaker 4: It's just your maturing body. It's just your physiology, it's 410 00:20:47,200 --> 00:20:50,439 Speaker 4: just your anatomy. It's just the way that your body 411 00:20:50,600 --> 00:20:53,800 Speaker 4: is developing as you are maturing into an adult. 412 00:20:54,200 --> 00:20:56,119 Speaker 1: Christine, I kind of feel like you wrote this book 413 00:20:56,119 --> 00:21:00,720 Speaker 1: for me, because I definitely have some regret about not 414 00:21:00,840 --> 00:21:03,439 Speaker 1: being part of sports and not sticking with a sport. 415 00:21:04,080 --> 00:21:05,840 Speaker 1: But for me it was a different reason. Like for 416 00:21:05,960 --> 00:21:08,639 Speaker 1: Danielle it was body image, for me, it was confidence. 417 00:21:08,720 --> 00:21:12,760 Speaker 1: I just really had this pervasive lack of confidence and 418 00:21:12,800 --> 00:21:15,600 Speaker 1: I felt so terrified whenever I was playing team sports 419 00:21:15,600 --> 00:21:17,560 Speaker 1: that I was going to let everyone down, that I 420 00:21:17,600 --> 00:21:20,840 Speaker 1: was going to fail. And I'm curious if through your 421 00:21:20,880 --> 00:21:24,959 Speaker 1: research have you learned anything about whether women are conditioned 422 00:21:24,960 --> 00:21:26,920 Speaker 1: to have a lower tolerance for failure. 423 00:21:27,200 --> 00:21:30,639 Speaker 4: That's a really interesting question. What I have come across 424 00:21:30,880 --> 00:21:34,399 Speaker 4: is some research looking at there are all these ultra 425 00:21:34,480 --> 00:21:38,280 Speaker 4: distance events, right these like super long running two hundred miles, 426 00:21:38,359 --> 00:21:41,679 Speaker 4: swimming across the English Channel, those types of things, and 427 00:21:41,720 --> 00:21:44,360 Speaker 4: there's been research done on ultra distance athletes that really 428 00:21:44,440 --> 00:21:47,520 Speaker 4: look at their motivation, and it seems women tend to 429 00:21:47,600 --> 00:21:52,000 Speaker 4: be more motivated by the journey, if you will, by 430 00:21:52,040 --> 00:21:55,359 Speaker 4: this sense of like really trying to see how they 431 00:21:55,359 --> 00:21:58,439 Speaker 4: can improve themselves, see like what they can do better 432 00:21:59,000 --> 00:22:02,760 Speaker 4: versus the outcome, versus I want to win this race, 433 00:22:02,840 --> 00:22:05,719 Speaker 4: I want a podium. So that's the piece of it 434 00:22:05,720 --> 00:22:07,720 Speaker 4: that I think is really interesting, in the sense that 435 00:22:08,040 --> 00:22:10,920 Speaker 4: women tend to be, or can tend to be more 436 00:22:10,960 --> 00:22:15,480 Speaker 4: intrinsically motivated in that way. But to your point about confidence, 437 00:22:16,240 --> 00:22:19,280 Speaker 4: I think it's that's a really salient point too, right, 438 00:22:19,359 --> 00:22:22,439 Speaker 4: because there are so many spheres outside of sports, just 439 00:22:22,440 --> 00:22:25,879 Speaker 4: in life in general, where girls and women aren't given 440 00:22:25,920 --> 00:22:28,720 Speaker 4: that space to be confident in what they do, to 441 00:22:28,920 --> 00:22:32,240 Speaker 4: show up as their full selves. And what I think 442 00:22:32,320 --> 00:22:36,679 Speaker 4: is interesting about sports is that it could potentially be 443 00:22:36,920 --> 00:22:39,520 Speaker 4: an arena for girls to do that, right, it's a 444 00:22:39,520 --> 00:22:43,800 Speaker 4: pretty self contained place where you can kind of try 445 00:22:43,840 --> 00:22:47,600 Speaker 4: on these different roles, where you can experiment. I definitely 446 00:22:47,640 --> 00:22:50,480 Speaker 4: felt that pressure of like I don't want to screw 447 00:22:50,560 --> 00:22:52,399 Speaker 4: up and mess up for my team, But at the 448 00:22:52,400 --> 00:22:54,560 Speaker 4: same time, you know, I think for me part of 449 00:22:54,600 --> 00:22:58,160 Speaker 4: it was realizing too, it's also just a game, right, 450 00:22:58,280 --> 00:23:01,639 Speaker 4: Like there aren't super real consequences to it. Especially as 451 00:23:01,640 --> 00:23:04,520 Speaker 4: someone who's not planning to go play college sports or 452 00:23:04,520 --> 00:23:07,639 Speaker 4: anything like that, it was an interesting arena to test 453 00:23:07,760 --> 00:23:08,440 Speaker 4: those things. 454 00:23:09,400 --> 00:23:11,440 Speaker 1: I think that's a better way of phrasing. What I 455 00:23:11,480 --> 00:23:13,840 Speaker 1: was trying to get at is this idea that like, 456 00:23:14,000 --> 00:23:17,320 Speaker 1: maybe as young girls we just put too much pressure 457 00:23:17,320 --> 00:23:21,320 Speaker 1: on ourselves in the game, whereas boys don't deal with 458 00:23:21,359 --> 00:23:22,200 Speaker 1: that same pressure. 459 00:23:22,520 --> 00:23:26,320 Speaker 4: I feel like for girls, what's unique about sports is that, 460 00:23:26,680 --> 00:23:29,000 Speaker 4: you know, for boys, they have so many different places 461 00:23:29,000 --> 00:23:31,440 Speaker 4: where they can test that out though, where it's sanctioned, 462 00:23:31,480 --> 00:23:35,160 Speaker 4: where it's like accepted. Whereas girls, it feels like sports 463 00:23:35,200 --> 00:23:37,399 Speaker 4: can be one of these, like I don't want to 464 00:23:37,400 --> 00:23:40,919 Speaker 4: say safe places, because sometimes it's not, but like it 465 00:23:40,960 --> 00:23:43,639 Speaker 4: can be this arena where they can kind of test 466 00:23:43,840 --> 00:23:45,960 Speaker 4: these roles in different ways and kind of test those 467 00:23:45,960 --> 00:23:50,640 Speaker 4: boundaries and it allows them maybe to be aggressive, right 468 00:23:50,720 --> 00:23:53,639 Speaker 4: to own their accomplishments. I mean, I don't know if 469 00:23:53,680 --> 00:23:58,040 Speaker 4: you watch the women's NCAA game, but like, that was 470 00:23:58,800 --> 00:24:03,119 Speaker 4: amazing seeing these women out there on the court just 471 00:24:03,320 --> 00:24:07,600 Speaker 4: fully owning their abilities, their competence, their confidence in a 472 00:24:07,640 --> 00:24:11,080 Speaker 4: way that when girls and women do that in other spheres, 473 00:24:11,080 --> 00:24:12,479 Speaker 4: they're often criticized for it. 474 00:24:13,000 --> 00:24:14,520 Speaker 1: I'm so glad that you brought that up, because it 475 00:24:14,520 --> 00:24:17,159 Speaker 1: feels like we're really at an inflection point with women's 476 00:24:17,160 --> 00:24:19,920 Speaker 1: sports where there's this huge buy in from the audience. 477 00:24:20,000 --> 00:24:22,359 Speaker 1: Everyone is rooting for these athletes. But it hasn't always 478 00:24:22,440 --> 00:24:24,639 Speaker 1: been that way. I mean, female sports teams are always 479 00:24:24,680 --> 00:24:28,600 Speaker 1: competing for airtime. So how does that aspect, that representation 480 00:24:28,800 --> 00:24:31,840 Speaker 1: factor impact young girls interest in sports? 481 00:24:32,440 --> 00:24:34,679 Speaker 4: Yeah, it makes a huge difference. I Mean, it's so 482 00:24:34,800 --> 00:24:37,879 Speaker 4: cheesy to say that representation matters, but it really does 483 00:24:38,040 --> 00:24:40,520 Speaker 4: when you're able to see people who look like you 484 00:24:41,160 --> 00:24:44,560 Speaker 4: doing things that you kind of dream of doing. But 485 00:24:44,600 --> 00:24:48,639 Speaker 4: more importantly, too, I think, especially for women's sports, is 486 00:24:48,760 --> 00:24:53,640 Speaker 4: seeing a trajectory right that you can go from your 487 00:24:53,720 --> 00:24:55,920 Speaker 4: rec team to your high school team to be able 488 00:24:55,960 --> 00:24:58,640 Speaker 4: to play in college, to be able to play professionally 489 00:24:59,080 --> 00:25:02,000 Speaker 4: and sure not ever everyones can do it, but it 490 00:25:02,080 --> 00:25:05,480 Speaker 4: creates this path where you see it is possible. You 491 00:25:05,520 --> 00:25:07,840 Speaker 4: know other people have done it and maybe I can too. 492 00:25:08,359 --> 00:25:10,240 Speaker 2: Christine, we're going to take a quick break, but when 493 00:25:10,240 --> 00:25:12,439 Speaker 2: we come back, we are going to talk more about 494 00:25:12,440 --> 00:25:15,960 Speaker 2: the benefits of sports and some solutions for how we 495 00:25:16,000 --> 00:25:27,080 Speaker 2: can support our female athletes. Christine, I also want to 496 00:25:27,119 --> 00:25:30,080 Speaker 2: talk about this stat. So eighty percent of Fortune five 497 00:25:30,200 --> 00:25:33,919 Speaker 2: hundred female executives played sports in their earlier years. 498 00:25:34,680 --> 00:25:36,879 Speaker 3: Eighty percent. That's astounding to me. 499 00:25:37,440 --> 00:25:40,639 Speaker 2: There's such a clear line between team sports and leadership 500 00:25:40,680 --> 00:25:43,840 Speaker 2: ability here. What do you think sports teaches us as kids? 501 00:25:44,200 --> 00:25:46,920 Speaker 4: It is really fascinating to see that direct line, like 502 00:25:46,960 --> 00:25:51,480 Speaker 4: you said, between sports and these executive positions and companies. 503 00:25:51,560 --> 00:25:55,679 Speaker 4: And I think that you know, sure, it's sports teaches 504 00:25:55,720 --> 00:25:58,080 Speaker 4: you teamwork, encouraging grit and all these things that we've 505 00:25:58,119 --> 00:26:01,640 Speaker 4: talked about for sure, but I think again for girls 506 00:26:01,680 --> 00:26:05,520 Speaker 4: and women in particular, there is something that's really different, 507 00:26:05,640 --> 00:26:09,440 Speaker 4: and it is this sense of community that's amongst the players. 508 00:26:09,720 --> 00:26:12,399 Speaker 4: Like you could be out there and you can want to, 509 00:26:12,760 --> 00:26:16,000 Speaker 4: you know, be your opponent by like huge margins. You 510 00:26:16,040 --> 00:26:19,720 Speaker 4: want to win this thing so badly. But off that court, right, 511 00:26:19,760 --> 00:26:23,440 Speaker 4: there is such an admiration and a community amongst these 512 00:26:23,480 --> 00:26:26,840 Speaker 4: players that I think is really different than you know, 513 00:26:26,880 --> 00:26:29,639 Speaker 4: we might see in men's sports. And I think it 514 00:26:29,720 --> 00:26:32,360 Speaker 4: really is that that community piece that's really unique. 515 00:26:32,560 --> 00:26:34,600 Speaker 3: Here's the big question that I have. 516 00:26:34,840 --> 00:26:38,000 Speaker 2: We just talked about what girls gain when they play 517 00:26:38,200 --> 00:26:40,840 Speaker 2: team sports. What do they lose out on when they 518 00:26:40,960 --> 00:26:42,240 Speaker 2: drop out of a team sport? 519 00:26:42,600 --> 00:26:45,560 Speaker 4: Yeah, there's so much. I think. On the one hand, 520 00:26:45,800 --> 00:26:48,280 Speaker 4: there's what we've talked about in terms of feeling the 521 00:26:48,280 --> 00:26:52,880 Speaker 4: shame around your body and how lasting those feelings can 522 00:26:52,920 --> 00:26:55,920 Speaker 4: be when you feel like your body's not right, and 523 00:26:55,960 --> 00:26:57,960 Speaker 4: how that can lead to things like eating disorders and 524 00:26:58,000 --> 00:27:03,719 Speaker 4: body image issues. Are potentially losing out on all the 525 00:27:03,720 --> 00:27:07,720 Speaker 4: health benefits of moving your body as well. Right, We've 526 00:27:07,760 --> 00:27:10,000 Speaker 4: seen so much of the research around the effects of 527 00:27:10,040 --> 00:27:13,439 Speaker 4: sedentary behavior and how that's connected to chronic disease and 528 00:27:13,480 --> 00:27:18,960 Speaker 4: all of that. But it's creating this negative relationship between 529 00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:21,600 Speaker 4: women and their bodies and thinking about what their bodies 530 00:27:21,680 --> 00:27:22,680 Speaker 4: can and cannot do. 531 00:27:23,200 --> 00:27:26,679 Speaker 1: Christine, you go to high schools to educate administrators and 532 00:27:26,760 --> 00:27:30,000 Speaker 1: students about this very issue. What are you seeing when 533 00:27:30,040 --> 00:27:32,879 Speaker 1: you're on the ground there, are you seeing anything encouraging 534 00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:34,679 Speaker 1: or positive strides that are being made? 535 00:27:35,160 --> 00:27:39,520 Speaker 4: Yeah? I mean, well, one these girls growing up today, 536 00:27:39,600 --> 00:27:44,119 Speaker 4: I mean they continue to blow me away because a 537 00:27:44,160 --> 00:27:46,680 Speaker 4: lot of times I will do talks at schools and 538 00:27:46,960 --> 00:27:50,720 Speaker 4: I will be interviewed by as student athlete typically and 539 00:27:51,520 --> 00:27:55,280 Speaker 4: not only they're poise, but just the questions that they 540 00:27:55,359 --> 00:27:58,919 Speaker 4: ask right about how we can improve the systems, what's wrong? 541 00:27:59,040 --> 00:28:02,320 Speaker 4: Like what can we do, and really wanting to take 542 00:28:02,720 --> 00:28:05,920 Speaker 4: a role in changing the systems right because they see 543 00:28:06,040 --> 00:28:10,479 Speaker 4: what's wrong. So they are just amazing and incredible. So 544 00:28:10,640 --> 00:28:12,080 Speaker 4: when I went to school, right, it used to be 545 00:28:12,200 --> 00:28:15,920 Speaker 4: just the coaches, the athletic director, and like the athletic 546 00:28:15,960 --> 00:28:19,160 Speaker 4: trainer essentially right kind of working with you. But now 547 00:28:19,200 --> 00:28:22,919 Speaker 4: seeing kind of an expansion of staff to include wellness counselors, 548 00:28:22,960 --> 00:28:26,080 Speaker 4: you know, mental health professionals, to include sports dieticians and 549 00:28:26,160 --> 00:28:29,480 Speaker 4: nutritionists being able to come in to provide better information 550 00:28:29,640 --> 00:28:31,800 Speaker 4: for how to nourish your body and make sure you're 551 00:28:31,800 --> 00:28:34,520 Speaker 4: getting the energy that you need. Those are big things. 552 00:28:34,640 --> 00:28:39,160 Speaker 4: But again, you know this emphasis, I'm really wanting to 553 00:28:39,360 --> 00:28:43,680 Speaker 4: educate girls on their whole body and to talk about 554 00:28:43,720 --> 00:28:46,800 Speaker 4: these critical issues that they're going through during adolescents, to 555 00:28:46,880 --> 00:28:49,520 Speaker 4: talk about their boobs, to talk about their periods, to 556 00:28:49,560 --> 00:28:52,120 Speaker 4: talk about the fact that their uniforms suck, to talk 557 00:28:52,120 --> 00:28:55,000 Speaker 4: about the fact that you know, they're not getting equal 558 00:28:55,200 --> 00:28:58,000 Speaker 4: practice times on the fields versus the boys. Like all 559 00:28:58,040 --> 00:29:00,320 Speaker 4: of those things. They're attuned to it. They know what's 560 00:29:00,360 --> 00:29:02,040 Speaker 4: going on, and they want to talk about it and 561 00:29:02,120 --> 00:29:02,560 Speaker 4: change it. 562 00:29:03,120 --> 00:29:06,719 Speaker 2: We grow up on the playground and boys will tease 563 00:29:06,800 --> 00:29:09,680 Speaker 2: us and say we're not as great of athletes as 564 00:29:09,680 --> 00:29:12,440 Speaker 2: they are. We all know that's not true, but I 565 00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:14,560 Speaker 2: want some research to back it up. And you are 566 00:29:14,600 --> 00:29:18,200 Speaker 2: the queen of research. So what have you found makes 567 00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:21,320 Speaker 2: women naturally incredible athletes? 568 00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:22,600 Speaker 3: What allows us to excel? 569 00:29:23,040 --> 00:29:26,920 Speaker 4: For so long sports has been developed by men for men, 570 00:29:27,240 --> 00:29:31,640 Speaker 4: And I think what's really amazing about seeing all these 571 00:29:31,720 --> 00:29:35,880 Speaker 4: incredible athletes coming up now is the fact that you know, 572 00:29:36,560 --> 00:29:40,240 Speaker 4: not only is it just the physical and like feats 573 00:29:40,280 --> 00:29:42,240 Speaker 4: that they're able to do. And I think, you know, 574 00:29:42,400 --> 00:29:46,960 Speaker 4: there's some research around physiology and what makes women's bodies 575 00:29:47,080 --> 00:29:50,120 Speaker 4: potentially better at things like these ultra distance events and 576 00:29:50,120 --> 00:29:52,960 Speaker 4: stuff like that, but again, I think it's it's more 577 00:29:53,080 --> 00:29:58,040 Speaker 4: of this kind of intangible piece around the community, around 578 00:29:58,040 --> 00:30:01,320 Speaker 4: the psychology, around the fact that, like a lot of 579 00:30:01,360 --> 00:30:03,240 Speaker 4: us have been through a lot of crap, and we've 580 00:30:03,240 --> 00:30:05,520 Speaker 4: put up with a lot of crap, and yet we've 581 00:30:05,520 --> 00:30:10,160 Speaker 4: been able to accomplish so much already. Like, imagine what 582 00:30:10,240 --> 00:30:13,640 Speaker 4: we could do without these barriers in place. Imagine what 583 00:30:13,680 --> 00:30:16,800 Speaker 4: we could do if we actually had research and training 584 00:30:16,840 --> 00:30:20,800 Speaker 4: guidelines and nutrition guidelines and injury prevention protocols that were 585 00:30:20,880 --> 00:30:25,360 Speaker 4: tailored to us and actually took into account our lived experiences. 586 00:30:25,920 --> 00:30:28,480 Speaker 4: I mean, just thinking about that and how that could 587 00:30:28,760 --> 00:30:31,479 Speaker 4: lift up girls and women, I mean, I think, you know, 588 00:30:31,520 --> 00:30:34,800 Speaker 4: it really is like endless what we could accomplish. 589 00:30:35,120 --> 00:30:37,480 Speaker 1: That part that you mentioned about the lack of research 590 00:30:37,520 --> 00:30:41,600 Speaker 1: on women's bodies, that is so crucial. But we always 591 00:30:41,760 --> 00:30:46,200 Speaker 1: like to leave our audience with some practical, solution oriented 592 00:30:46,240 --> 00:30:48,920 Speaker 1: tips here on the bright side. So for parents of 593 00:30:49,040 --> 00:30:52,000 Speaker 1: young girls, how can we make sure that our daughters 594 00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:53,920 Speaker 1: feel supported as athletes? 595 00:30:54,160 --> 00:30:54,520 Speaker 2: Yeah? 596 00:30:54,720 --> 00:30:56,840 Speaker 4: My thing that I always say first to parents and 597 00:30:56,880 --> 00:31:00,960 Speaker 4: coaches is it has to be health first, especially during 598 00:31:00,960 --> 00:31:04,720 Speaker 4: this period of adolescence. Like, even if your kid is 599 00:31:04,840 --> 00:31:08,880 Speaker 4: like the next great thing, your priority is on your 600 00:31:08,960 --> 00:31:12,320 Speaker 4: child's health and wellness. Overall as a human being, not 601 00:31:12,480 --> 00:31:15,160 Speaker 4: as a sports star, right, so that always has to 602 00:31:15,200 --> 00:31:18,880 Speaker 4: be first, and I think again, really helping the girls 603 00:31:19,120 --> 00:31:23,760 Speaker 4: understand that, yeah, puberty stinks, adolescence stinks, but it is 604 00:31:23,880 --> 00:31:26,400 Speaker 4: just a phase, and so it's really important for parents 605 00:31:26,400 --> 00:31:29,320 Speaker 4: to be that soft landing place for your kids. And 606 00:31:29,360 --> 00:31:31,640 Speaker 4: then just lastly, I just wanted to add like, there 607 00:31:31,680 --> 00:31:34,600 Speaker 4: are also really simple things that schools can do too, 608 00:31:35,160 --> 00:31:39,040 Speaker 4: providing free period products in the locker rooms. Like adolest 609 00:31:39,080 --> 00:31:41,920 Speaker 4: and girls, periods are very irregular and can be you know, 610 00:31:42,080 --> 00:31:44,400 Speaker 4: all over the place and not always at the same 611 00:31:44,440 --> 00:31:47,640 Speaker 4: time of the month, but having period products available makes 612 00:31:47,680 --> 00:31:49,160 Speaker 4: it so that they don't have to go to their coach, 613 00:31:49,200 --> 00:31:53,040 Speaker 4: who most often will probably be a man, and say, hey, coach, 614 00:31:53,080 --> 00:31:55,520 Speaker 4: I can't practice today because I got my period and 615 00:31:55,520 --> 00:31:58,440 Speaker 4: then feeling ashamed about it. Just make it available, Like, 616 00:31:59,280 --> 00:32:02,520 Speaker 4: are there things we can do to make the uniforms 617 00:32:02,560 --> 00:32:06,440 Speaker 4: not so exposed again because your bodies are changing so much, 618 00:32:06,600 --> 00:32:09,680 Speaker 4: Like no one wants to feel super exposed when they're 619 00:32:09,680 --> 00:32:10,360 Speaker 4: playing a game. 620 00:32:10,520 --> 00:32:13,400 Speaker 1: It's already traumatic enough wondering when your period will come 621 00:32:13,640 --> 00:32:16,080 Speaker 1: as an adolescent and wondering if it will strike when 622 00:32:16,080 --> 00:32:17,000 Speaker 1: you least expect it. 623 00:32:20,480 --> 00:32:23,200 Speaker 4: And I think the biggest thing that I would say, 624 00:32:23,400 --> 00:32:26,600 Speaker 4: you know, to girls, to parents, to coaches, really anyone 625 00:32:26,640 --> 00:32:31,240 Speaker 4: who interacts with girls, is keep it fun. Sports is 626 00:32:31,240 --> 00:32:35,200 Speaker 4: supposed to be fun. Sports is this incredible tool for development. 627 00:32:35,360 --> 00:32:39,240 Speaker 4: But when we like professionalize it and like make it 628 00:32:39,280 --> 00:32:42,000 Speaker 4: super serious and competitive, we lose a lot of that 629 00:32:42,200 --> 00:32:44,560 Speaker 4: joy and that fun. And that's really what it needs 630 00:32:44,600 --> 00:32:47,560 Speaker 4: to be if we're thinking about kind of the long 631 00:32:47,680 --> 00:32:50,840 Speaker 4: term trajectory of girls being active, because that's what I 632 00:32:50,880 --> 00:32:53,880 Speaker 4: think what we want. We want girls to be active 633 00:32:54,000 --> 00:32:57,680 Speaker 4: throughout their entire life, in whatever shape or form that 634 00:32:57,800 --> 00:33:01,640 Speaker 4: might take. So yeah, remembering to keep the joy in. 635 00:33:01,600 --> 00:33:04,560 Speaker 1: It that is so real. And that applies to fitness too. 636 00:33:04,840 --> 00:33:07,480 Speaker 1: If I'm not doing workouts that bring me joy or 637 00:33:07,480 --> 00:33:09,560 Speaker 1: make me feel good, then I'm just not going to 638 00:33:09,600 --> 00:33:11,560 Speaker 1: work out. So you've got to be able to find 639 00:33:11,560 --> 00:33:14,600 Speaker 1: the joy in it one percent. Christine, thank you so 640 00:33:14,720 --> 00:33:15,920 Speaker 1: much for talking with us. 641 00:33:16,640 --> 00:33:18,040 Speaker 4: Thank you so much for having me. 642 00:33:18,160 --> 00:33:19,000 Speaker 3: Thanks Christine. 643 00:33:20,360 --> 00:33:23,360 Speaker 2: Christine you is the author of Up to Speed, The 644 00:33:23,400 --> 00:33:26,959 Speaker 2: Groundbreaking Science of Women Athletes. You can follow her writing 645 00:33:27,040 --> 00:33:29,880 Speaker 2: on her substack. Reading between the lines. 646 00:33:34,680 --> 00:33:37,760 Speaker 1: That interview was really eye opening for me, Danielle. I 647 00:33:37,880 --> 00:33:40,360 Speaker 1: liked how she talked about the need to arm girls 648 00:33:40,360 --> 00:33:43,840 Speaker 1: with more information about their bodies and help them understand 649 00:33:44,280 --> 00:33:47,560 Speaker 1: what puberty really looks like and what to expect, because 650 00:33:47,840 --> 00:33:52,560 Speaker 1: I am very passionate about making sure all women learn 651 00:33:52,680 --> 00:33:55,840 Speaker 1: about how our bodies work, because knowledge is everything. 652 00:33:56,280 --> 00:33:57,360 Speaker 3: I feel that Simone. 653 00:33:57,680 --> 00:34:01,960 Speaker 2: I really loved when she talked about community that's developed 654 00:34:01,960 --> 00:34:05,800 Speaker 2: through sports. It's honestly another one of those things that 655 00:34:05,840 --> 00:34:08,279 Speaker 2: I love seeing during March Madness. You would see the 656 00:34:08,320 --> 00:34:10,960 Speaker 2: players just jump off the bench for their teammates shooting 657 00:34:10,960 --> 00:34:14,080 Speaker 2: a three, And I feel like, because you and I 658 00:34:14,120 --> 00:34:17,280 Speaker 2: didn't get to play team sports, one of the things 659 00:34:17,320 --> 00:34:20,880 Speaker 2: that we should garner from this is leaving today with 660 00:34:20,920 --> 00:34:25,840 Speaker 2: the goal of celebrating another female journalist or reporter, because 661 00:34:26,200 --> 00:34:29,480 Speaker 2: this job really is a team sport. It takes producers 662 00:34:29,520 --> 00:34:32,160 Speaker 2: and writers and you know, like our fates are all 663 00:34:32,200 --> 00:34:34,320 Speaker 2: tied together, and that's what I love about sports. 664 00:34:34,600 --> 00:34:38,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, let's bring that team sport ethos into everything that 665 00:34:38,120 --> 00:34:38,440 Speaker 1: we do. 666 00:34:38,800 --> 00:34:45,680 Speaker 2: Mm hmm, all right, tomorrow, we're swapping out our sneakers 667 00:34:45,719 --> 00:34:48,399 Speaker 2: for some high heels, even if it's just for the day. 668 00:34:48,600 --> 00:34:52,000 Speaker 2: Here to talk about fashion is the stylist, reality TV 669 00:34:52,120 --> 00:34:54,400 Speaker 2: star and CEO Rachel Zoe. 670 00:34:54,840 --> 00:34:57,080 Speaker 1: And that's it for today's show. Listen and follow the 671 00:34:57,080 --> 00:35:00,520 Speaker 1: bright Side on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever 672 00:35:00,560 --> 00:35:03,320 Speaker 1: you get your podcasts. You can find me simone Voice 673 00:35:03,400 --> 00:35:04,840 Speaker 1: on Instagram and TikTok. 674 00:35:05,120 --> 00:35:08,920 Speaker 2: I'm Danielle Robe at Danielle robe on Instagram and TikTok. 675 00:35:09,040 --> 00:35:10,560 Speaker 2: That's r O B A Y. 676 00:35:10,880 --> 00:35:13,320 Speaker 1: See you tomorrow, folks. Keep looking on the bright side. 677 00:35:13,560 --> 00:35:14,160 Speaker 3: See you later.