1 00:00:00,520 --> 00:00:04,280 Speaker 1: Hello, dear listener, justa heads up in this episode, there's 2 00:00:04,320 --> 00:00:12,159 Speaker 1: some curse words and some hateful language. As kids, a 3 00:00:12,200 --> 00:00:14,280 Speaker 1: lot of us had to sit in the backseat of 4 00:00:14,280 --> 00:00:18,560 Speaker 1: a car and listen to our parents control the radio dial. Well, 5 00:00:18,600 --> 00:00:22,680 Speaker 1: they're three bold and depending on the decade, those music 6 00:00:22,800 --> 00:00:24,119 Speaker 1: choices could be anything. 7 00:00:24,200 --> 00:00:24,720 Speaker 2: Well, guys. 8 00:00:24,880 --> 00:00:29,040 Speaker 1: Music for Gabby Rivera growing up in the Bronx in 9 00:00:29,080 --> 00:00:37,040 Speaker 1: the nineteen eighties, she had the Fanya All Stars. 10 00:00:38,240 --> 00:00:40,000 Speaker 3: When we went on car rides and we went to 11 00:00:40,080 --> 00:00:43,240 Speaker 3: Florida to visit relatives, my dad always had his salsa 12 00:00:43,320 --> 00:00:43,880 Speaker 3: music playing. 13 00:00:46,680 --> 00:00:49,760 Speaker 1: Gaby Rivera is a writer who's maybe best known for 14 00:00:49,800 --> 00:00:51,800 Speaker 1: her work with Marvel Comics. 15 00:00:52,000 --> 00:00:57,440 Speaker 3: My dad always had his music playing, Latin jazz, salsa, motown. 16 00:00:57,600 --> 00:01:00,840 Speaker 3: You know. He's a child of like the sixties in seventies, 17 00:01:00,880 --> 00:01:01,560 Speaker 3: you know what I mean. 18 00:01:02,080 --> 00:01:05,160 Speaker 4: And we had this one song that I would always 19 00:01:05,200 --> 00:01:07,280 Speaker 4: put on when we left Torcha Beach. 20 00:01:07,640 --> 00:01:09,880 Speaker 5: That's Gabby's dad, Charlie Rivera. 21 00:01:10,200 --> 00:01:20,600 Speaker 4: That was Cocinando by Ray Baretto, and that was our 22 00:01:21,240 --> 00:01:24,399 Speaker 4: leaving song for Torture Beaches. Then put on that song 23 00:01:24,800 --> 00:01:26,880 Speaker 4: we all were packing up and ready to rock and 24 00:01:26,920 --> 00:01:27,600 Speaker 4: go back home. 25 00:01:27,880 --> 00:01:31,280 Speaker 1: There are songs that take him right back to the 26 00:01:31,400 --> 00:01:33,080 Speaker 1: island where he spent his. 27 00:01:33,080 --> 00:01:41,720 Speaker 4: Childhood Alisa Isla Velde or Lukeillo or Junkeo or. 28 00:01:43,480 --> 00:01:46,880 Speaker 1: They'd listened to the classics, of course, from Ecto Lavo 29 00:01:47,400 --> 00:01:54,040 Speaker 1: to Willie Cologne. One day, young Gabby and her dad 30 00:01:54,480 --> 00:01:58,480 Speaker 1: are in the family's white minivan when a notable salsa 31 00:01:58,720 --> 00:01:59,480 Speaker 1: song comes on. 32 00:02:00,360 --> 00:02:02,680 Speaker 3: You know, there's that Sasa break right where all of 33 00:02:02,680 --> 00:02:11,280 Speaker 3: a sudden, it's like right like and it's like dance right. 34 00:02:11,520 --> 00:02:14,560 Speaker 4: This was not a boleto This was Sasa baby. This 35 00:02:14,600 --> 00:02:15,560 Speaker 4: is get up and dance. 36 00:02:16,600 --> 00:02:20,800 Speaker 1: It's catchy, it's got a great groove. Then Gabby's ears 37 00:02:20,840 --> 00:02:23,280 Speaker 1: start to take in the words. 38 00:02:23,320 --> 00:02:26,320 Speaker 3: I'm sitting and I'm listening, and I hear the lyrics 39 00:02:26,360 --> 00:02:30,320 Speaker 3: tell Graska. 40 00:02:28,720 --> 00:02:38,240 Speaker 1: Say, and this is a seven or eight year old 41 00:02:38,280 --> 00:02:41,399 Speaker 1: who's trying to make sense of the unusual story being 42 00:02:41,480 --> 00:02:44,880 Speaker 1: laid out in this Satsa song with the pronouns the 43 00:02:44,960 --> 00:02:46,880 Speaker 1: singer is using, like. 44 00:02:46,919 --> 00:02:50,000 Speaker 3: What is happening to this man to this kid, and 45 00:02:50,120 --> 00:02:58,360 Speaker 3: like it's talking about dresses and putting on lipstick. His 46 00:02:58,480 --> 00:03:01,359 Speaker 3: father won't visit him, and like all of these things 47 00:03:01,400 --> 00:03:02,760 Speaker 3: that aren't making sense. 48 00:03:03,280 --> 00:03:07,160 Speaker 1: El grand Baron or the Great Man is a song 49 00:03:07,280 --> 00:03:10,520 Speaker 1: by Willie Colon released in nineteen eighty nine. When Tala 50 00:03:10,520 --> 00:03:10,880 Speaker 1: hands that. 51 00:03:12,520 --> 00:03:21,440 Speaker 6: Where we see Navi sar jack Gebro Dona mona dja. 52 00:03:20,919 --> 00:03:21,240 Speaker 4: Get that. 53 00:03:25,320 --> 00:03:29,320 Speaker 1: An unlikely hit about a father who rejects his child 54 00:03:29,760 --> 00:03:33,720 Speaker 1: Simon because the child dresses as a woman. 55 00:03:34,360 --> 00:03:37,000 Speaker 3: And I'm just trying to piece it all together, and 56 00:03:37,160 --> 00:03:40,960 Speaker 3: it's talking about in like the hospital waiting room e. 57 00:03:41,120 --> 00:03:46,480 Speaker 6: La salads fal Simone is in there and sick and 58 00:03:46,720 --> 00:03:49,520 Speaker 6: like dying, Mourio Simon, And. 59 00:03:49,560 --> 00:03:54,280 Speaker 3: I remember just asking, like, what is happening to Simone? 60 00:03:54,840 --> 00:03:59,520 Speaker 1: A salsa song with a dramatic topical ending right at 61 00:03:59,560 --> 00:04:01,960 Speaker 1: the high of the AIDS crisis. 62 00:04:02,520 --> 00:04:03,880 Speaker 5: It stood out and. 63 00:04:04,000 --> 00:04:06,280 Speaker 3: It was shocking to me that that song existed. 64 00:04:06,720 --> 00:04:22,320 Speaker 1: Simon's from Futuro Media and PRX It's Latino Usa. 65 00:04:22,480 --> 00:04:23,520 Speaker 5: I'm Maria no Posa. 66 00:04:24,120 --> 00:04:27,479 Speaker 1: For today's episode, we bring you a special episode from 67 00:04:27,600 --> 00:04:31,640 Speaker 1: La Brega Season two, a new podcast series from Futuro 68 00:04:31,680 --> 00:04:36,520 Speaker 1: Studios and WNYC Studios about the Puerto Rican experience, this 69 00:04:36,720 --> 00:04:38,480 Speaker 1: time through music. 70 00:04:40,880 --> 00:04:42,600 Speaker 5: This is episode two in the series. 71 00:04:42,960 --> 00:04:48,440 Speaker 1: Elgrand Baron, who was Simon La Brega host Alana Casanova 72 00:04:48,520 --> 00:04:50,760 Speaker 1: Burgess is going to take it from here. 73 00:04:51,680 --> 00:04:54,480 Speaker 7: There are a number of songs that paint the contradictions 74 00:04:54,560 --> 00:04:57,800 Speaker 7: and tensions of Puerto Rico love, songs that are also 75 00:04:57,880 --> 00:05:02,360 Speaker 7: pretty sexist or prideful anthems that erase our history. But 76 00:05:02,600 --> 00:05:05,760 Speaker 7: there's this song that, for a lot of people feels 77 00:05:05,839 --> 00:05:09,920 Speaker 7: particularly contradictory. I don't remember where I was when I 78 00:05:10,000 --> 00:05:13,040 Speaker 7: first really heard the lyrics to algram Baron, I mean 79 00:05:13,160 --> 00:05:16,880 Speaker 7: really listened to them, But whenever it was I walked 80 00:05:16,920 --> 00:05:19,600 Speaker 7: away with a lot of questions like, how should we 81 00:05:19,720 --> 00:05:24,080 Speaker 7: understand today this song that was so unusual and surprising 82 00:05:24,320 --> 00:05:27,919 Speaker 7: when it first came out. For some, it's offered essential 83 00:05:28,000 --> 00:05:31,240 Speaker 7: lessons in how to love your child. For others, it's 84 00:05:31,240 --> 00:05:35,600 Speaker 7: a hateful and even violent listen, and for listeners like 85 00:05:35,640 --> 00:05:40,040 Speaker 7: Gabi Rivera, it's a bittersweet soundtrack to a really important memory. 86 00:05:41,240 --> 00:05:45,479 Speaker 3: That song El Grand Baron has always just been part 87 00:05:45,640 --> 00:05:49,520 Speaker 3: of the energy of my life. We come up against 88 00:05:49,520 --> 00:05:52,320 Speaker 3: a lot of like machismo, where there's expectations on how 89 00:05:52,400 --> 00:05:55,520 Speaker 3: to be a man and your mom and your theas 90 00:05:55,640 --> 00:05:57,880 Speaker 3: might tease you and might bully you as well for 91 00:05:58,200 --> 00:06:01,960 Speaker 3: being a feminine boy right or a butch girl. 92 00:06:02,320 --> 00:06:07,560 Speaker 7: Or trans or non binary, and long before Gabby came 93 00:06:07,600 --> 00:06:10,680 Speaker 7: out or even knew she wanted to, she struggled with 94 00:06:10,760 --> 00:06:13,640 Speaker 7: how to relate to her parents. She wasn't sure how 95 00:06:13,680 --> 00:06:16,480 Speaker 7: to bridge the generational divide with her dad or the 96 00:06:16,560 --> 00:06:20,760 Speaker 7: religious divide with her mom. On TV and in movies, 97 00:06:21,040 --> 00:06:23,680 Speaker 7: if there were gay characters, they were never a Latine, 98 00:06:24,440 --> 00:06:27,680 Speaker 7: never Puerto Rican, and they were almost always subjected to 99 00:06:27,760 --> 00:06:31,560 Speaker 7: some awful fate. And this SUSA was pretty grim too. 100 00:06:32,480 --> 00:06:37,240 Speaker 3: I think it's just like an honest tale, a heartfelt, heartfelt, honest, 101 00:06:37,480 --> 00:06:39,080 Speaker 3: like heartbreaking story. 102 00:06:48,800 --> 00:06:52,000 Speaker 7: At the time, in nineteen eighty nine, the Spanish side 103 00:06:52,000 --> 00:06:54,800 Speaker 7: of the dial mostly had a lot of romance or 104 00:06:54,839 --> 00:06:56,040 Speaker 7: at least sex. 105 00:06:57,160 --> 00:07:00,840 Speaker 2: Frankie Reese would have been singing something like that's new 106 00:07:00,960 --> 00:07:10,240 Speaker 2: that they mohead, something along that line, right because I 107 00:07:10,280 --> 00:07:10,800 Speaker 2: want to see you. 108 00:07:11,200 --> 00:07:14,480 Speaker 7: Jose Masso has hosted a bilingual radio show called Gon 109 00:07:14,600 --> 00:07:17,200 Speaker 7: Salsa on w b u R in Boston for forty 110 00:07:17,280 --> 00:07:17,840 Speaker 7: seven years. 111 00:07:18,320 --> 00:07:20,640 Speaker 2: Some of them were inoquous like Julia. 112 00:07:26,920 --> 00:07:30,800 Speaker 7: Musically, these hits were still pretty complicated, big band sounds 113 00:07:30,920 --> 00:07:33,960 Speaker 7: great for dancing, and there were artists who were trying 114 00:07:34,040 --> 00:07:37,280 Speaker 7: new things, like for example, Willie Cologne. 115 00:07:41,400 --> 00:07:42,360 Speaker 2: The South Bronx. 116 00:07:42,920 --> 00:07:45,520 Speaker 7: He was already a salsa legend from the South Bronx, 117 00:07:45,920 --> 00:07:47,720 Speaker 7: a masterful trombone player. 118 00:07:48,240 --> 00:07:51,320 Speaker 2: He was still doing the street sounds of New York, 119 00:07:51,440 --> 00:07:53,040 Speaker 2: but he was much more experimental. 120 00:07:53,600 --> 00:07:56,640 Speaker 7: Willi Cologne had been a sort of child prodigy. He 121 00:07:56,760 --> 00:07:59,520 Speaker 7: released his first album when he was just seventeen, and 122 00:07:59,640 --> 00:08:02,400 Speaker 7: he was a longtime collaborator with two other greats of 123 00:08:02,480 --> 00:08:05,360 Speaker 7: the genre, Ector Labo and Reuben Blades. 124 00:08:05,720 --> 00:08:08,720 Speaker 2: He had this persona being at model, right, that was 125 00:08:08,800 --> 00:08:11,680 Speaker 2: his brand. That was his persona was a bad boy. Yeah, 126 00:08:11,760 --> 00:08:12,280 Speaker 2: the bad boy. 127 00:08:12,680 --> 00:08:15,840 Speaker 7: He had embodied this gangster mafia image for like twenty 128 00:08:15,960 --> 00:08:17,960 Speaker 7: years by the time he put out his nineteen eighty 129 00:08:18,040 --> 00:08:20,400 Speaker 7: nine solo album, Top Secrets. 130 00:08:20,880 --> 00:08:23,280 Speaker 2: And so the album jacket is black and white, and 131 00:08:23,320 --> 00:08:26,560 Speaker 2: it shows him with dark stunglasses, you know, short hair, 132 00:08:26,640 --> 00:08:29,200 Speaker 2: and he's dressed in black Top Secrets. So all that 133 00:08:29,240 --> 00:08:32,880 Speaker 2: gives you the sense of, you know, intrigued cia man 134 00:08:32,960 --> 00:08:33,360 Speaker 2: in black. 135 00:08:33,760 --> 00:08:36,200 Speaker 7: And on this album there's a track that's a seven 136 00:08:36,280 --> 00:08:39,959 Speaker 7: minute long story, elgram Baron. Now, along with all the 137 00:08:40,040 --> 00:08:42,440 Speaker 7: sex that was on the radio, there were a few 138 00:08:42,600 --> 00:08:44,640 Speaker 7: other really long songs out there. 139 00:08:45,360 --> 00:08:48,320 Speaker 2: We already were used to the idea of a narrative 140 00:08:48,800 --> 00:08:50,200 Speaker 2: that was storytelling, right. 141 00:08:50,840 --> 00:08:54,520 Speaker 7: These narratives were mostly about other people, rarely a first 142 00:08:54,520 --> 00:08:55,200 Speaker 7: person account. 143 00:08:55,480 --> 00:08:58,079 Speaker 2: So there will say I want to tell you the story. 144 00:08:58,440 --> 00:09:01,600 Speaker 2: And if it happened to be a story that reflexed life, 145 00:09:02,000 --> 00:09:03,520 Speaker 2: happens to be a story of reflex life. 146 00:09:04,040 --> 00:09:07,720 Speaker 7: And if Selsa's ever did reference queerness, they were imbued 147 00:09:07,840 --> 00:09:12,840 Speaker 7: with macho toxicity. For example, in the early eighties, Ruben 148 00:09:12,920 --> 00:09:15,000 Speaker 7: Blades had recorded Maestra Vida. 149 00:09:15,200 --> 00:09:18,000 Speaker 2: When he sings the song having to do Ramo's birth 150 00:09:18,160 --> 00:09:25,680 Speaker 2: in La Runge sings that and there's a part where 151 00:09:25,679 --> 00:09:28,360 Speaker 2: he says, what will he be when he grows up? 152 00:09:28,400 --> 00:09:30,079 Speaker 2: Will he be a great baseball player? Will he'd be 153 00:09:30,120 --> 00:09:35,480 Speaker 2: a scientist, Maybe he'll be a doctor. But then he 154 00:09:35,600 --> 00:09:41,320 Speaker 2: says in Spanish, Senor Genosa, Marica Genosa Ladron, Please God 155 00:09:41,559 --> 00:09:46,160 Speaker 2: let him not be gay? Birth peace exactly right. So 156 00:09:46,240 --> 00:09:47,640 Speaker 2: he puts those two things together. 157 00:09:48,280 --> 00:09:51,600 Speaker 7: I mean the word it's really a slur oh big time. 158 00:09:51,760 --> 00:09:54,559 Speaker 2: He was basically reflecting what men were thinking at that 159 00:09:54,640 --> 00:09:55,320 Speaker 2: period of time. 160 00:09:56,320 --> 00:10:02,199 Speaker 7: Nearly twenty years later, Rubin changed the lyric to let 161 00:10:02,280 --> 00:10:04,679 Speaker 7: him not be a coward, let him not be a thief, 162 00:10:05,480 --> 00:10:08,319 Speaker 7: saying he understood the power of words and regretted the 163 00:10:08,400 --> 00:10:12,520 Speaker 7: earlier version. All this to say, El grand Baron coming 164 00:10:12,559 --> 00:10:20,600 Speaker 7: out in nineteen eighty nine caught people's attention. It's worth 165 00:10:20,640 --> 00:10:25,080 Speaker 7: going through the narrative step by step. It starts with Simone's. 166 00:10:24,520 --> 00:10:26,319 Speaker 8: Birth, Nacio Simon. 167 00:10:28,640 --> 00:10:31,040 Speaker 7: We learned that Simon's I'm saying it with an E. 168 00:10:31,200 --> 00:10:36,520 Speaker 7: At the end, Simone's father, Donandres is already proud because 169 00:10:36,559 --> 00:10:38,000 Speaker 7: Simon was born a boy. 170 00:10:38,760 --> 00:10:49,600 Speaker 6: Elrujo, Donandres or Servaron, El grand Baron, the big man, Thendrasquez. 171 00:10:49,360 --> 00:10:59,600 Speaker 7: Undoubtedly male, unquestioningly straight. Simone leaves home, goes abroad Alex 172 00:10:59,640 --> 00:11:06,640 Speaker 7: Trange Ange. It doesn't specify where. And one day Donandres 173 00:11:06,679 --> 00:11:10,760 Speaker 7: pays Simone an unannounced visit and sees his child presenting 174 00:11:10,840 --> 00:11:11,360 Speaker 7: as a woman. 175 00:11:11,720 --> 00:11:14,080 Speaker 2: Then when he recognizes that, wait a minute, how can 176 00:11:14,120 --> 00:11:14,240 Speaker 2: it be? 177 00:11:14,640 --> 00:11:23,719 Speaker 7: The song actually refers to Simone wearing women's clothing, and 178 00:11:23,800 --> 00:11:29,280 Speaker 7: the lyrics do say a woman speaks to Donandres, but 179 00:11:29,440 --> 00:11:33,079 Speaker 7: Simon's gender doesn't change in the lyrics. I should note 180 00:11:33,080 --> 00:11:35,640 Speaker 7: that people I spoke to for this piece used different 181 00:11:35,720 --> 00:11:39,880 Speaker 7: pronouns for Simon. In the song, the father character, Donandres 182 00:11:40,120 --> 00:11:43,400 Speaker 7: is the villain for rejecting his kid. The message was clear, 183 00:11:43,960 --> 00:11:45,040 Speaker 7: don't be like him. 184 00:11:45,360 --> 00:11:49,160 Speaker 2: Because of your own bias. You're going to disown your child. 185 00:11:49,480 --> 00:11:51,520 Speaker 2: And at the moment in which you no longer have 186 00:11:51,640 --> 00:11:54,720 Speaker 2: the child, you're going to you're going to say, oh man, 187 00:11:55,360 --> 00:11:57,200 Speaker 2: they're gone, I don't have my child. 188 00:11:57,200 --> 00:12:01,440 Speaker 7: Right because by the end, Simon own dies all alone 189 00:12:01,760 --> 00:12:05,679 Speaker 7: of a mysterious disease we all assume is aids estraya. 190 00:12:05,880 --> 00:12:10,120 Speaker 2: And even though you know the word is never said, 191 00:12:10,679 --> 00:12:12,959 Speaker 2: you know that that's the story of why Simonis in 192 00:12:13,000 --> 00:12:14,800 Speaker 2: the hospital ultimately dies. 193 00:12:23,679 --> 00:12:26,280 Speaker 7: After all, El grand Baron was released at the height 194 00:12:26,360 --> 00:12:30,800 Speaker 7: of this health crisis that was affecting everyone again, Charlie 195 00:12:30,880 --> 00:12:32,120 Speaker 7: and his daughter Gabby. 196 00:12:32,400 --> 00:12:40,680 Speaker 4: N Spoka Laimundo was like all over the place. 197 00:12:41,280 --> 00:12:43,880 Speaker 7: Part of that reality was parents having to bury their 198 00:12:43,920 --> 00:12:44,680 Speaker 7: own children. 199 00:12:45,080 --> 00:12:47,560 Speaker 9: You know, Guiro sarel l f. 200 00:12:49,559 --> 00:12:57,679 Speaker 6: Asunter Selverano relojend is, says Alen. 201 00:12:58,840 --> 00:13:04,640 Speaker 7: Mavis, and then here comes this song. 202 00:13:06,240 --> 00:13:07,000 Speaker 10: Shems. 203 00:13:19,600 --> 00:13:22,599 Speaker 9: This was a cry and a shout out to the 204 00:13:22,880 --> 00:13:33,520 Speaker 9: Latin community. Regardless of whether you're Colombian, you know, Puerto Rican, Mexican, Dominican, 205 00:13:33,960 --> 00:13:38,000 Speaker 9: you know, Cuban, It didn't matter. It was saying you 206 00:13:38,160 --> 00:13:39,640 Speaker 9: don't be like this. 207 00:13:41,360 --> 00:13:45,880 Speaker 7: Because of all this, some radio stations refused to play 208 00:13:46,040 --> 00:13:50,160 Speaker 7: elgra Baron. Some of the backlash was even violent, but 209 00:13:50,280 --> 00:13:52,160 Speaker 7: the song resonated anyway. 210 00:13:52,400 --> 00:13:57,480 Speaker 2: I would have been picking up you know, it would 211 00:13:57,480 --> 00:13:57,920 Speaker 2: have been back. 212 00:13:58,720 --> 00:14:02,240 Speaker 7: The song's audience grew and grew. Today In the Grand 213 00:14:02,280 --> 00:14:05,240 Speaker 7: Baron is one of Billboard's top fifty Latin songs of 214 00:14:05,440 --> 00:14:06,240 Speaker 7: all time. 215 00:14:09,360 --> 00:14:12,000 Speaker 11: Like I love this song musically, it's just a hate 216 00:14:12,160 --> 00:14:14,880 Speaker 11: what the song does not even what it says, it's 217 00:14:14,920 --> 00:14:15,480 Speaker 11: what it does. 218 00:14:16,040 --> 00:14:20,320 Speaker 7: Opelia Patrana is a transgender woman, a YouTuber, stand up comic, 219 00:14:20,480 --> 00:14:22,960 Speaker 7: and media personality based in Mexico City. 220 00:14:23,440 --> 00:14:28,760 Speaker 11: It's literally hate speech on salsa. It perpetuates a notion 221 00:14:28,920 --> 00:14:30,200 Speaker 11: that transgender women are men. 222 00:14:30,880 --> 00:14:32,720 Speaker 7: This is one of the big issues with this song, 223 00:14:33,200 --> 00:14:37,040 Speaker 7: the pronoun problem. It's never explicitly stated that this person, 224 00:14:37,320 --> 00:14:41,240 Speaker 7: this character is trans The lyrics refer to Simone as 225 00:14:41,320 --> 00:14:44,080 Speaker 7: male all the way through back then. 226 00:14:44,920 --> 00:14:47,960 Speaker 11: I mean, of course you wouldn't even think about pronouns. 227 00:14:48,880 --> 00:14:51,440 Speaker 7: But that means that the way we imagine Simon and 228 00:14:51,560 --> 00:14:54,240 Speaker 7: I say we because the lyrics have messed with me too, 229 00:14:55,040 --> 00:14:57,200 Speaker 7: is built into the very first line of the song. 230 00:14:57,960 --> 00:15:01,160 Speaker 7: Remember it starts with a birth. It's actually one of 231 00:15:01,160 --> 00:15:06,240 Speaker 7: the most iconic opening lines of any salsa. Simone was born. 232 00:15:06,880 --> 00:15:09,800 Speaker 11: It's just people. We are constantly told that you cannot 233 00:15:10,240 --> 00:15:13,640 Speaker 11: change anything that is assigned at birth, and everyone will 234 00:15:13,680 --> 00:15:16,720 Speaker 11: focus constantly on whatever it is you were at birth. 235 00:15:17,360 --> 00:15:20,800 Speaker 7: And as Ophelia says, that idea that a trans person 236 00:15:20,960 --> 00:15:24,600 Speaker 7: is referred to by their dead name or misgendered is violent. 237 00:15:26,720 --> 00:15:30,720 Speaker 11: The song replicates a transphobic position and you can see 238 00:15:30,760 --> 00:15:35,800 Speaker 11: that clearly when you ask people if you think Simone 239 00:15:35,920 --> 00:15:39,080 Speaker 11: is a woman like it's like no one will generally 240 00:15:39,720 --> 00:15:40,840 Speaker 11: make that mental click. 241 00:15:46,240 --> 00:15:48,920 Speaker 7: And then there's the chorus, which is a popular saying. 242 00:16:02,480 --> 00:16:05,720 Speaker 7: You can't straighten a crooked tree trunk, you can't fix 243 00:16:05,920 --> 00:16:10,680 Speaker 7: people's nature. There are different ways of hearing that. For one, 244 00:16:11,000 --> 00:16:14,440 Speaker 7: it's meant as a warning to the father donandres, don't 245 00:16:14,480 --> 00:16:17,240 Speaker 7: be the villain of your family. People are who they 246 00:16:17,320 --> 00:16:19,560 Speaker 7: were meant to be and it's on you to love them. 247 00:16:20,520 --> 00:16:23,200 Speaker 7: Or it's telling us something is wrong with Simon, that 248 00:16:23,280 --> 00:16:26,840 Speaker 7: there's something about Simone's nature that needs fixing, and that 249 00:16:26,920 --> 00:16:30,080 Speaker 7: it's futile to try, and so they still have to 250 00:16:30,160 --> 00:16:34,400 Speaker 7: be tolerated. Despite this flaw. It's a cruel way of 251 00:16:34,480 --> 00:16:39,560 Speaker 7: thinking about queerness. It's like condoning it. So while the 252 00:16:39,600 --> 00:16:43,040 Speaker 7: song is loved for denouncing donandres, it is also detested 253 00:16:43,160 --> 00:16:45,760 Speaker 7: for including a saying that is often used against queer 254 00:16:45,880 --> 00:16:47,040 Speaker 7: and trans people. 255 00:16:47,080 --> 00:16:51,080 Speaker 11: By today's standard and mister Mark, now, should older media 256 00:16:51,400 --> 00:16:52,680 Speaker 11: be measured by today's rule? 257 00:16:52,760 --> 00:16:53,080 Speaker 2: I don't know. 258 00:16:54,000 --> 00:16:57,280 Speaker 11: Nonetheless, a lot of LGBT people will find representation within 259 00:16:57,360 --> 00:16:59,840 Speaker 11: this song because this is the one song that had 260 00:17:00,200 --> 00:17:01,600 Speaker 11: parents talking about the issue. 261 00:17:02,120 --> 00:17:04,639 Speaker 7: This is a contradiction that gabyri Veda has had to 262 00:17:04,720 --> 00:17:05,040 Speaker 7: sit with. 263 00:17:05,480 --> 00:17:09,479 Speaker 3: So there is that element of like that lens, right, 264 00:17:09,640 --> 00:17:16,440 Speaker 3: that hetero, maybe even homophobic, unintentional homophobic lens where you're 265 00:17:16,440 --> 00:17:19,679 Speaker 3: looking at it and you're like, damn, you know, they 266 00:17:19,720 --> 00:17:21,359 Speaker 3: shouldn't have been wearing a dress, or why are they 267 00:17:21,400 --> 00:17:23,719 Speaker 3: putting on lipstick to her? 268 00:17:23,920 --> 00:17:26,120 Speaker 7: The song's language is trying to speak to a lot 269 00:17:26,200 --> 00:17:27,399 Speaker 7: of different audiences. 270 00:17:28,200 --> 00:17:32,320 Speaker 3: This song is speaking to the older generation, my father's generation, 271 00:17:32,600 --> 00:17:35,360 Speaker 3: my generation, and sometimes to do a lot of work, 272 00:17:35,400 --> 00:17:37,240 Speaker 3: you got to speak all the languages. You got to 273 00:17:37,240 --> 00:17:40,080 Speaker 3: speak the language of the vehitos. If you're straight and 274 00:17:40,200 --> 00:17:43,200 Speaker 3: you're writing a song about your gay brother, the language 275 00:17:43,200 --> 00:17:45,520 Speaker 3: that you use isn't necessarily the language that he's going 276 00:17:45,560 --> 00:17:50,320 Speaker 3: to use about himself. Versus if Simon wrote this song, 277 00:17:50,720 --> 00:17:53,560 Speaker 3: there might be like not a crooked tree, but the 278 00:17:53,640 --> 00:17:55,800 Speaker 3: tree with the most leaves, or the most brilliant tree. 279 00:18:00,040 --> 00:18:02,520 Speaker 7: If Simon wrote the lyrics, they might also have a 280 00:18:02,560 --> 00:18:06,000 Speaker 7: different fate because this Sabsa also does what all other 281 00:18:06,119 --> 00:18:09,920 Speaker 7: depictions of queerness did at the time. It ends in death. 282 00:18:10,520 --> 00:18:12,879 Speaker 3: Before I was out, I felt like that could be 283 00:18:13,040 --> 00:18:18,480 Speaker 3: me cast out, left to die. That was the narrative 284 00:18:18,560 --> 00:18:21,400 Speaker 3: we had right especially growing up in the eighties and nineties. 285 00:18:22,119 --> 00:18:22,720 Speaker 2: All we saw. 286 00:18:22,920 --> 00:18:25,560 Speaker 3: All I saw was my queer elders, like dying of 287 00:18:25,760 --> 00:18:26,520 Speaker 3: HIV aids. 288 00:18:28,440 --> 00:18:31,840 Speaker 7: But Algranbaron landed differently than all those other narratives. Gabby 289 00:18:31,960 --> 00:18:34,520 Speaker 7: was seeing coming to mind again when she was coming 290 00:18:34,600 --> 00:18:36,680 Speaker 7: to terms with what it would mean to come out 291 00:18:36,680 --> 00:18:40,760 Speaker 7: as gay. Hearing lyrics that scolded a bigoted father for 292 00:18:40,880 --> 00:18:43,320 Speaker 7: rejecting his queer kid stuck with her. 293 00:18:43,880 --> 00:18:47,720 Speaker 3: If these words could be spoken sung out loud, then 294 00:18:47,800 --> 00:18:50,600 Speaker 3: maybe there was like room for me to say my 295 00:18:50,800 --> 00:18:57,440 Speaker 3: truth and to demand love and care. And also maybe 296 00:18:57,520 --> 00:19:01,359 Speaker 3: I would fucking die alone. And that is part of this. 297 00:19:02,960 --> 00:19:05,560 Speaker 3: That's the fucking excuse me. That's the shit, right that 298 00:19:05,680 --> 00:19:10,840 Speaker 3: it's like that if I was going to come out, 299 00:19:10,880 --> 00:19:14,480 Speaker 3: I'd also have to swallow the possibility that my death 300 00:19:14,600 --> 00:19:19,360 Speaker 3: wouldn't matter, that it would be something I might experience 301 00:19:19,440 --> 00:19:20,600 Speaker 3: alone and no one would care. 302 00:19:31,080 --> 00:19:33,440 Speaker 7: For years, I've wondered about this song and the people 303 00:19:33,520 --> 00:19:36,680 Speaker 7: at the center of it, how Simone's story resonates with 304 00:19:36,800 --> 00:19:40,600 Speaker 7: so many people, the pain, the struggle for acceptance, and 305 00:19:40,720 --> 00:19:45,720 Speaker 7: when Simone dies you really feel it. Turns out the 306 00:19:45,840 --> 00:19:46,560 Speaker 7: songwriter he. 307 00:19:46,640 --> 00:19:49,240 Speaker 8: Know, marij Alfano, You're sure that Banama. 308 00:19:49,240 --> 00:19:51,000 Speaker 7: Was inspired by a real person he knew. 309 00:19:54,240 --> 00:19:56,640 Speaker 1: Coming up after the break, we hear from this songwriter 310 00:19:57,080 --> 00:20:00,879 Speaker 1: behind elgrand Baron and about the realit glady of trans 311 00:20:01,000 --> 00:20:02,359 Speaker 1: violence in Puerto Rico. 312 00:20:02,560 --> 00:20:09,159 Speaker 8: Today, Sanose, Hello Andres. 313 00:20:09,200 --> 00:20:52,520 Speaker 5: Stay with us, not yes, Hey, we're back for today's show. 314 00:20:52,560 --> 00:20:54,280 Speaker 1: We're bringing you a special look at one of the 315 00:20:54,359 --> 00:20:58,720 Speaker 1: episodes of season two of La Brega of Uturo Studios 316 00:20:58,800 --> 00:21:01,800 Speaker 1: and w n y c ST Studios podcast series that 317 00:21:02,359 --> 00:21:06,440 Speaker 1: just launched, and this season we're looking at the Puerto 318 00:21:06,520 --> 00:21:10,200 Speaker 1: Rican experience through music. I'm going to pass the mic 319 00:21:10,280 --> 00:21:13,720 Speaker 1: back now to Alana Casanova Burgess, who's the host of 320 00:21:14,000 --> 00:21:14,520 Speaker 1: La Brega. 321 00:21:15,400 --> 00:21:20,600 Speaker 7: Elgram Baron's lyrics lingered with Gabby, They haunted listeners. Simon's 322 00:21:20,640 --> 00:21:22,800 Speaker 7: story resonated with a lot of people who were filled 323 00:21:22,840 --> 00:21:25,600 Speaker 7: with fear about their own identity, or were scared for 324 00:21:25,640 --> 00:21:29,080 Speaker 7: the people they loved, or frankly, who hated what this 325 00:21:29,200 --> 00:21:32,959 Speaker 7: song was saying. And it turns out the song itself 326 00:21:33,080 --> 00:21:35,840 Speaker 7: is a kind of specter, the result of a memory 327 00:21:35,920 --> 00:21:37,879 Speaker 7: that seems to have haunted its author as. 328 00:21:37,760 --> 00:21:41,080 Speaker 8: Well that banam. 329 00:21:41,800 --> 00:21:45,000 Speaker 7: Omar Alfano is a songwriter from Banama and the writer 330 00:21:45,160 --> 00:21:52,600 Speaker 7: and composer of elgram Baron Google Lelo. He has in 331 00:21:52,680 --> 00:21:56,200 Speaker 7: fact written many hits for Puerto Rican artists. By his count, 332 00:21:56,359 --> 00:22:14,280 Speaker 7: some two hundred and fifty have recorded his songs. You 333 00:22:14,400 --> 00:22:17,560 Speaker 7: get the picture. But in the mid eighties, Omar Alfano 334 00:22:17,760 --> 00:22:21,159 Speaker 7: was just starting out. One night in Miami, he was 335 00:22:21,240 --> 00:22:23,600 Speaker 7: with some old friends from high school. They were all 336 00:22:23,680 --> 00:22:26,439 Speaker 7: catching up on what had happened to their classmates, sharing 337 00:22:26,520 --> 00:22:31,919 Speaker 7: some cheesemad, and someone asked about one friend in particular, 338 00:22:32,359 --> 00:22:34,400 Speaker 7: who from now on will call Simon. 339 00:22:34,800 --> 00:22:40,439 Speaker 8: Heyes Maricon. 340 00:22:41,160 --> 00:22:44,080 Speaker 7: They used that slur for gay because in those days, 341 00:22:44,359 --> 00:22:47,200 Speaker 7: when guys like Omar's friends got around each other. The 342 00:22:47,240 --> 00:22:50,960 Speaker 7: word homosexual wasn't used, but there were plenty of slurs. 343 00:22:51,400 --> 00:22:56,000 Speaker 8: A mad despis. 344 00:22:56,960 --> 00:23:00,440 Speaker 7: Part of that bigotry was being critical of anything feminine, 345 00:23:00,520 --> 00:23:07,560 Speaker 7: he said, attacking anything remotely soft. Be a man, men 346 00:23:07,640 --> 00:23:11,800 Speaker 7: don't cry, et cetera. And so Omar's friends kept telling 347 00:23:11,880 --> 00:23:17,359 Speaker 7: him what had happened to Simon. Simon laf Panama and 348 00:23:17,480 --> 00:23:20,560 Speaker 7: went to another Latin American country and tried to come out, 349 00:23:21,200 --> 00:23:25,359 Speaker 7: but there too, the machismo was stifling and violent. As 350 00:23:25,400 --> 00:23:29,320 Speaker 7: Omada points out, their hometown in Panama was small and patriarchal. 351 00:23:32,200 --> 00:23:35,600 Speaker 7: Growing up, the expectations were clear. You had to be, 352 00:23:35,960 --> 00:23:40,040 Speaker 7: as the song says, you have to be a great man, 353 00:23:40,440 --> 00:23:45,439 Speaker 7: a strong man, an unquestionably straight man. Simon got an 354 00:23:45,440 --> 00:23:49,800 Speaker 7: opportunity to move to San Francisco and took it. According 355 00:23:49,880 --> 00:23:52,760 Speaker 7: to what Omad heard, life was much better for Simon 356 00:23:52,840 --> 00:23:57,600 Speaker 7: and San Francisco, but this again was essentially chisme. Gossip 357 00:23:58,080 --> 00:24:03,359 Speaker 7: gwent lahinte. He couldn't say whether his friend was trans, 358 00:24:03,920 --> 00:24:07,360 Speaker 7: but think so that's what people told him. And since 359 00:24:07,400 --> 00:24:10,000 Speaker 7: we don't know when referring to the real life person, 360 00:24:10,320 --> 00:24:16,520 Speaker 7: I'm going to use. Simon took that story and turned 361 00:24:16,560 --> 00:24:19,399 Speaker 7: it into the DNA of the song Gami se Miguel. 362 00:24:21,720 --> 00:24:23,879 Speaker 7: It was no more than a thirty minute stretch of 363 00:24:23,960 --> 00:24:27,200 Speaker 7: that conversation on a boat in Miami, but it stuck 364 00:24:27,240 --> 00:24:30,840 Speaker 7: with Omar Alfano, and one day, not long after, he 365 00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:38,840 Speaker 7: was in Mexico, passing by a piano, he said, so 366 00:24:39,160 --> 00:24:41,840 Speaker 7: Omar sat down to write mis Slano. 367 00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:44,639 Speaker 3: Then he. 368 00:24:50,640 --> 00:24:53,720 Speaker 7: And he did what songwriters do. He took some liberties, 369 00:24:53,960 --> 00:24:56,639 Speaker 7: changed a lot of details, and sometimes drew from his 370 00:24:56,760 --> 00:25:04,320 Speaker 7: own experiences. Omar used his birth year in place of Simon's. Omad, 371 00:25:04,320 --> 00:25:06,840 Speaker 7: who was born in fifty seven, changed it to fifty six, 372 00:25:07,080 --> 00:25:09,960 Speaker 7: so it rhymed with Donandres, a made up character. 373 00:25:10,080 --> 00:25:10,159 Speaker 10: And. 374 00:25:12,440 --> 00:25:16,560 Speaker 7: The song's theme of family pressure and expectations. Omar took 375 00:25:16,600 --> 00:25:19,440 Speaker 7: that not from Simon, but from his own life story. 376 00:25:20,320 --> 00:25:22,639 Speaker 7: He had been pressured to pursue a career as an 377 00:25:22,800 --> 00:25:26,600 Speaker 7: oral surgeon. He leaned in, tried to fit the role 378 00:25:26,720 --> 00:25:32,240 Speaker 7: of grand baron until he couldn't anymore, gave up and 379 00:25:32,440 --> 00:25:43,359 Speaker 7: became a songwriter. After that initial inspired rush of writing, 380 00:25:43,960 --> 00:25:46,160 Speaker 7: it took Omad a couple of weeks to figure out 381 00:25:46,200 --> 00:25:49,560 Speaker 7: how the song should conclude. He needed to find an ending. 382 00:25:50,200 --> 00:25:56,600 Speaker 7: He let it marinate. Just as the song begins in 383 00:25:56,640 --> 00:25:59,800 Speaker 7: a hospital, the circle is closed at the end. The 384 00:26:00,160 --> 00:26:03,120 Speaker 7: oric specified that Simon is the patient in bed number 385 00:26:03,200 --> 00:26:07,840 Speaker 7: ten who dies of OUIs ran ferme a mysterious illness. 386 00:26:08,920 --> 00:26:11,359 Speaker 7: I've always heard this as an obvious reference to AIDS. 387 00:26:12,160 --> 00:26:14,800 Speaker 7: How could it be anything else? Coming out in nineteen 388 00:26:14,880 --> 00:26:18,600 Speaker 7: eighty nine, But keeping the disease and mystery wasn't a 389 00:26:18,760 --> 00:26:21,800 Speaker 7: narrative tool. It was used solely to fit the meter 390 00:26:21,920 --> 00:26:25,720 Speaker 7: of a line cancer, pneumonia, car crash. Nothing else would 391 00:26:25,720 --> 00:26:26,159 Speaker 7: have fit. 392 00:26:28,200 --> 00:26:33,439 Speaker 8: The monia Murio Simo all on Cancer Murio. 393 00:26:34,320 --> 00:26:36,440 Speaker 7: He says that he might have heard something about AIDS 394 00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:38,719 Speaker 7: on the news during those two weeks and it had 395 00:26:38,760 --> 00:26:42,080 Speaker 7: gotten stuck in his subconscious, but he claims that the 396 00:26:42,200 --> 00:26:50,800 Speaker 7: reference to that particular mysterious illness was an accidents and 397 00:26:50,920 --> 00:26:53,920 Speaker 7: according to Omar, he certainly didn't know that at that 398 00:26:54,080 --> 00:26:57,240 Speaker 7: moment his friend whose story had inspired the song, was 399 00:26:57,359 --> 00:27:04,639 Speaker 7: also in a San Francisco hospital dying of AIDS. Doesn't 400 00:27:04,680 --> 00:27:06,960 Speaker 7: know if any family members were there for a bedside 401 00:27:07,000 --> 00:27:10,359 Speaker 7: reunion like the one denied in the song, because he 402 00:27:10,400 --> 00:27:13,119 Speaker 7: actually never connected with his old friend, never got to 403 00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:16,560 Speaker 7: play this song for Simon, they never had that conversation, 404 00:27:16,880 --> 00:27:19,480 Speaker 7: and it's one of his big regrets, a detail he 405 00:27:19,560 --> 00:27:21,320 Speaker 7: says he's never told anyone before. 406 00:27:26,920 --> 00:27:27,560 Speaker 8: It can't. 407 00:27:35,880 --> 00:27:38,920 Speaker 7: Because being raised to be a grand baron type, Alfano 408 00:27:39,000 --> 00:27:42,280 Speaker 7: has this lingering doubt if his friend had come out 409 00:27:42,320 --> 00:27:44,720 Speaker 7: to him in high school, how would he have reacted. 410 00:27:45,560 --> 00:27:47,600 Speaker 7: Would Omar have rejected Simon too. 411 00:27:50,640 --> 00:27:54,080 Speaker 8: Superfer so. 412 00:28:03,560 --> 00:28:06,480 Speaker 7: What would the real Simon have thought? Because Omar Alfano 413 00:28:06,600 --> 00:28:09,560 Speaker 7: himself has heard the pushback to the chorus that the 414 00:28:09,600 --> 00:28:12,960 Speaker 7: comparison to a cricket tree trunk is insulting, as is 415 00:28:13,040 --> 00:28:16,920 Speaker 7: the saying that you cannot correct nature. Would Simon have 416 00:28:17,000 --> 00:28:24,320 Speaker 7: been offended, but Omar says that's not his message. The 417 00:28:24,440 --> 00:28:30,960 Speaker 7: song is reflecting the language people used. Maybe the problem 418 00:28:31,119 --> 00:28:34,600 Speaker 7: is they still do. And Omara says that despite the 419 00:28:34,680 --> 00:28:37,240 Speaker 7: fact that language has changed in the past three decades, 420 00:28:37,640 --> 00:28:40,920 Speaker 7: and that the language he uses has also changed, he 421 00:28:41,000 --> 00:28:43,720 Speaker 7: wouldn't want to alter the lyrics towel grand. 422 00:28:43,440 --> 00:28:46,960 Speaker 8: Baron Ciria, Oh exactly, let you. 423 00:28:49,640 --> 00:28:51,840 Speaker 7: It's what he wrote at the time. The beats of 424 00:28:51,920 --> 00:28:54,440 Speaker 7: the story and the writing build on each other and 425 00:28:54,640 --> 00:28:56,880 Speaker 7: resulted in everything that came afterwards. 426 00:28:58,560 --> 00:29:00,600 Speaker 8: Naa nada nada in a buddle. 427 00:29:01,320 --> 00:29:03,120 Speaker 7: It's a song based on the shadow of a real 428 00:29:03,200 --> 00:29:07,760 Speaker 7: person's experience, but it's not really Simon's story. It's Omar 429 00:29:07,760 --> 00:29:12,120 Speaker 7: Alfanos and Willie Colon's interpretation. So what might the real 430 00:29:12,200 --> 00:29:15,280 Speaker 7: Simon have actually said if they heard it again? 431 00:29:15,520 --> 00:29:18,560 Speaker 12: Ofelia Patrana, I really don't talk to any of my 432 00:29:18,640 --> 00:29:22,160 Speaker 12: high school budies, and I can just imagine what would 433 00:29:22,160 --> 00:29:23,880 Speaker 12: happen if one of them would write a hit song 434 00:29:23,880 --> 00:29:27,520 Speaker 12: about my life right now and talks about me, my 435 00:29:28,760 --> 00:29:29,600 Speaker 12: male me. 436 00:29:29,920 --> 00:29:30,640 Speaker 2: Does it make sense? 437 00:29:31,880 --> 00:29:32,760 Speaker 11: I really wouldn't want that. 438 00:29:34,000 --> 00:29:37,080 Speaker 7: Since nineteen eighty nine, there have been so many people who, 439 00:29:37,640 --> 00:29:40,400 Speaker 7: for better or worse, have heard themselves in this story 440 00:29:40,520 --> 00:29:44,440 Speaker 7: about the character in this song, Simon. But today we 441 00:29:44,560 --> 00:29:47,160 Speaker 7: actually don't have to search too far to hear how 442 00:29:47,200 --> 00:29:50,280 Speaker 7: they might have sung about themselves like I am Simon. 443 00:29:50,520 --> 00:29:55,000 Speaker 7: You know this is Ana Macho, a non binary artist 444 00:29:55,080 --> 00:29:57,920 Speaker 7: from Caaguas who makes pop and urbano music. 445 00:29:58,560 --> 00:30:02,440 Speaker 10: First of all, weekens love a good saying. They love 446 00:30:02,520 --> 00:30:06,080 Speaker 10: that shit, they love it, they love a good lesson, 447 00:30:06,240 --> 00:30:06,959 Speaker 10: a good moral. 448 00:30:09,280 --> 00:30:14,880 Speaker 7: That controversial chorus Palo actually felt as accurate to them 449 00:30:14,920 --> 00:30:17,760 Speaker 7: growing up in Puerto Rico as it did for Gabby 450 00:30:17,840 --> 00:30:18,880 Speaker 7: growing up in the Bronx. 451 00:30:19,920 --> 00:30:22,640 Speaker 10: My grandfather has said that in relation to my own 452 00:30:22,720 --> 00:30:27,160 Speaker 10: queerness and other people's queerness, because queer people be in 453 00:30:27,280 --> 00:30:28,680 Speaker 10: everyone's mouth all the time. 454 00:30:30,760 --> 00:30:34,240 Speaker 7: Again, it's a way of tolerating while not celebrating, like 455 00:30:34,320 --> 00:30:38,240 Speaker 7: we can't change you, so let's condone you. Anamacho does 456 00:30:38,480 --> 00:30:41,240 Speaker 7: like that. It meets people where they are. But what 457 00:30:41,360 --> 00:30:44,320 Speaker 7: the song doesn't do is present Simon as someone really 458 00:30:44,400 --> 00:30:47,520 Speaker 7: living their life. They're a character people are talking about, 459 00:30:47,920 --> 00:30:50,840 Speaker 7: and it's really more of a song about Donandres. He's 460 00:30:50,920 --> 00:30:51,680 Speaker 7: center stage. 461 00:30:52,240 --> 00:30:55,120 Speaker 10: But I'm sure Simon was just living her fucking best life. 462 00:30:55,680 --> 00:30:57,960 Speaker 10: We're in the share out of that lipstick and we're 463 00:30:58,040 --> 00:31:00,680 Speaker 10: in the shit out of that bag. Her life was 464 00:31:00,800 --> 00:31:04,840 Speaker 10: probably so fucking fabulous, because I'm a queer Puerto Rican 465 00:31:05,320 --> 00:31:08,040 Speaker 10: in New York City and my life is so insanely fabulous. 466 00:31:08,840 --> 00:31:11,280 Speaker 7: Until I told them that it was written by a Panamanian, 467 00:31:11,760 --> 00:31:16,400 Speaker 7: Anamacho always just assumed Donandres and Simon were super Puerto Rican. 468 00:31:16,760 --> 00:31:20,120 Speaker 10: To me just intrinsically makes me picture it and see 469 00:31:20,160 --> 00:31:22,760 Speaker 10: it in my head as such a Puerto Rican story. 470 00:31:24,160 --> 00:31:29,520 Speaker 10: Puerto Ricans are very Catholic, very Pentecostal, very Christian, very detrimental, 471 00:31:30,360 --> 00:31:32,320 Speaker 10: and all informed. 472 00:31:34,400 --> 00:31:37,760 Speaker 7: There's this idea out there that because we love salsa 473 00:31:37,960 --> 00:31:41,960 Speaker 7: and reguedon bere is a sexually liberated. 474 00:31:41,560 --> 00:31:45,920 Speaker 10: Place, we're all just ja los saniristra coons and bab bunni's. 475 00:31:46,440 --> 00:31:46,960 Speaker 10: But it's not. 476 00:31:47,920 --> 00:31:50,760 Speaker 7: According to the ACLU, Puerto Rico has one of the 477 00:31:50,920 --> 00:31:55,120 Speaker 7: highest rates of femicides in the world. There's an epidemic 478 00:31:55,240 --> 00:31:59,160 Speaker 7: of intimate partner violence in the archipelago, and as in 479 00:31:59,240 --> 00:32:05,560 Speaker 7: the States, the trans community faces violence. In February of 480 00:32:05,640 --> 00:32:09,360 Speaker 7: twenty twenty, a transgender woman named Alexa Negron Luciano was 481 00:32:09,400 --> 00:32:13,320 Speaker 7: stalked and killed. Her attackers filmed themselves threatening her, and 482 00:32:13,400 --> 00:32:14,400 Speaker 7: the video went viral. 483 00:32:15,000 --> 00:32:17,920 Speaker 2: Alexi's murder has shocked the conscience of people in Puerto 484 00:32:18,000 --> 00:32:19,400 Speaker 2: Rico and horrified. 485 00:32:22,800 --> 00:32:23,040 Speaker 11: It's a. 486 00:32:25,040 --> 00:32:25,320 Speaker 5: Tiro. 487 00:32:27,960 --> 00:32:30,400 Speaker 7: It was the first of five known trans femicides on 488 00:32:30,440 --> 00:32:33,560 Speaker 7: the island in twenty twenty, meaning it had the highest 489 00:32:33,680 --> 00:32:36,800 Speaker 7: number of transphobic killings anywhere in the US that year. 490 00:32:37,760 --> 00:32:41,040 Speaker 7: In response to the fear that that creates, Anamacho wrote 491 00:32:41,040 --> 00:32:44,120 Speaker 7: a song about living your best fucking life. It was 492 00:32:44,200 --> 00:32:47,080 Speaker 7: called Cuerpa, and it came out a couple of years ago. 493 00:32:47,800 --> 00:32:51,480 Speaker 7: In Spanish, the word for body is usually querpo cabasa. 494 00:32:51,760 --> 00:32:56,920 Speaker 10: That word is intrinsically masculine, which makes it a masculine 495 00:32:56,960 --> 00:32:57,760 Speaker 10: word el. 496 00:32:57,680 --> 00:33:10,640 Speaker 7: Querpo, but Anamacho used a variation of the word, making 497 00:33:10,680 --> 00:33:11,360 Speaker 7: it feminine. 498 00:33:11,800 --> 00:33:15,840 Speaker 10: We can center something other than the masculine at the 499 00:33:16,000 --> 00:33:18,880 Speaker 10: center of like a bottle of the autonomy conversation. 500 00:33:19,680 --> 00:33:22,360 Speaker 7: It all started when a friend was describing how threatening 501 00:33:22,440 --> 00:33:26,040 Speaker 7: it felt being a trans person in Puerto Rico, even 502 00:33:26,160 --> 00:33:29,440 Speaker 7: just going to the beach. What bathing suit should they wear? 503 00:33:30,040 --> 00:33:32,560 Speaker 7: What would happen when they took their clothes off, what 504 00:33:32,720 --> 00:33:43,160 Speaker 7: if people watched? And so turning that reality over in 505 00:33:43,240 --> 00:33:47,000 Speaker 7: their mind, Anamacho's querpa just came to them. 506 00:33:50,680 --> 00:33:58,680 Speaker 10: Lem beetti solo rio friend. 507 00:34:00,640 --> 00:34:09,120 Speaker 7: Do but. 508 00:34:12,280 --> 00:34:13,200 Speaker 10: Visus statement. 509 00:34:15,360 --> 00:34:18,239 Speaker 7: It's as far away from Don Andres's rejection as you 510 00:34:18,320 --> 00:34:22,400 Speaker 7: could possibly get, and it doesn't end in tragedy. As 511 00:34:22,440 --> 00:34:25,319 Speaker 7: they put it, It's a body positive anthem about doing 512 00:34:25,400 --> 00:34:28,320 Speaker 7: whatever you want with your body, regardless of what that 513 00:34:28,400 --> 00:34:32,000 Speaker 7: body looks like. Have sex, smoke a blunt, wear a 514 00:34:32,120 --> 00:34:34,520 Speaker 7: yellow bikini, go to the beach with your friends, and 515 00:34:34,719 --> 00:34:38,320 Speaker 7: anyone else's opinion about it truly doesn't matter. 516 00:34:38,840 --> 00:34:41,840 Speaker 10: Like I am the most fulfilled I've ever been, the 517 00:34:41,960 --> 00:34:45,360 Speaker 10: most add one with myself as I've ever been. I 518 00:34:45,440 --> 00:34:49,399 Speaker 10: am so loved. Like if people would see how many 519 00:34:49,480 --> 00:34:52,680 Speaker 10: friends I have, how much love is in the air 520 00:34:52,760 --> 00:34:55,800 Speaker 10: in my life, how positive my day to day life 521 00:34:55,920 --> 00:34:59,799 Speaker 10: is me being a trans queer person, like I would 522 00:34:59,800 --> 00:35:02,799 Speaker 10: think that they will be relieved and they would be like, huh, 523 00:35:03,480 --> 00:35:05,640 Speaker 10: I didn't know you could live such a happy life. 524 00:35:08,080 --> 00:35:11,040 Speaker 10: But that's the thing, Okay, people don't get to see 525 00:35:11,120 --> 00:35:14,480 Speaker 10: how happy and joy fool we are because those are 526 00:35:14,560 --> 00:35:15,719 Speaker 10: not the story of being told. 527 00:35:18,880 --> 00:35:23,279 Speaker 11: I really wish we had better representation for everything, but 528 00:35:23,400 --> 00:35:27,600 Speaker 11: we don't, really don't, and so I will take crappy. 529 00:35:27,360 --> 00:35:29,920 Speaker 7: Representation again, Olia Patana. 530 00:35:30,280 --> 00:35:33,160 Speaker 11: I'm just going to celebrate the fact that we are talking. 531 00:35:32,920 --> 00:35:36,440 Speaker 7: About this, not just Ophelia and I talking about algraand Baron, 532 00:35:36,920 --> 00:35:39,960 Speaker 7: but all the conversations and all the families that took 533 00:35:40,040 --> 00:35:43,000 Speaker 7: the right lesson from listening to this unexpected hit. 534 00:35:43,320 --> 00:35:45,160 Speaker 11: This song has brought the subject to the table and 535 00:35:45,239 --> 00:35:47,320 Speaker 11: we can talk about the subject. I think that's a 536 00:35:47,360 --> 00:35:47,920 Speaker 11: beautiful thing. 537 00:35:48,600 --> 00:35:50,760 Speaker 7: And you know, it's a banger. 538 00:35:51,160 --> 00:35:53,600 Speaker 11: If you strip the lyrics from this song, it's still 539 00:35:53,640 --> 00:35:57,279 Speaker 11: a great song. I think this song would have been 540 00:35:57,680 --> 00:36:01,000 Speaker 11: an amazing song even if it spoke about apples and bananas. 541 00:36:07,719 --> 00:36:11,640 Speaker 7: In the real world, there are tragic endings like Simon's, 542 00:36:11,719 --> 00:36:15,839 Speaker 7: of course, but there are also happy endings and maybe 543 00:36:15,920 --> 00:36:19,680 Speaker 7: happy beginnings too. When Gaby was in that white mini 544 00:36:19,800 --> 00:36:22,920 Speaker 7: van watching her dad jam out to that song, there 545 00:36:23,000 --> 00:36:26,839 Speaker 7: had been that one exchange that stayed with Gaby when 546 00:36:26,880 --> 00:36:30,279 Speaker 7: she would ask him about Simon and Elgrand Baron and 547 00:36:30,360 --> 00:36:37,799 Speaker 7: he would take the time to tell her, you know. 548 00:36:38,239 --> 00:36:44,600 Speaker 3: Everyone is different, everyone is made in God's images. We 549 00:36:44,680 --> 00:36:48,680 Speaker 3: all love each other. And so the tenderness with which 550 00:36:48,760 --> 00:36:52,360 Speaker 3: my father explained that, and the way that he was 551 00:36:52,440 --> 00:36:58,239 Speaker 3: able to articulate elements about like lgbt Q identity, right 552 00:36:58,360 --> 00:37:02,600 Speaker 3: but without any judgment, that just always struck me. And 553 00:37:02,719 --> 00:37:04,960 Speaker 3: as a kid, right, of course, I don't have that language, 554 00:37:05,000 --> 00:37:07,560 Speaker 3: but I do notice his tenderness. I do notice that 555 00:37:07,640 --> 00:37:10,440 Speaker 3: he's explaining this to me. I notice and feel that 556 00:37:10,480 --> 00:37:13,160 Speaker 3: there's no judgment and there's all this love, you know, 557 00:37:13,800 --> 00:37:15,760 Speaker 3: and this is a song that he never skips. 558 00:37:16,000 --> 00:37:16,319 Speaker 1: Oh, no. 559 00:37:18,440 --> 00:37:20,160 Speaker 9: Big deal, nugget unclose. 560 00:37:20,239 --> 00:37:23,279 Speaker 3: That that gave me permission to come out, because I 561 00:37:23,440 --> 00:37:26,400 Speaker 3: never forgot that and I thought, well, if there's softness 562 00:37:27,080 --> 00:37:30,080 Speaker 3: in him for this song, then there must be softness 563 00:37:30,120 --> 00:37:32,760 Speaker 3: in him for me if ever I tell him something 564 00:37:32,920 --> 00:37:36,560 Speaker 3: like this, and that space where we didn't have language 565 00:37:36,600 --> 00:37:39,560 Speaker 3: in that moment, my father built that first bridge between us. 566 00:37:45,320 --> 00:37:46,120 Speaker 7: It's a conversation. 567 00:37:46,320 --> 00:37:49,680 Speaker 13: Lots of kids never get the conversation to explain the 568 00:37:49,760 --> 00:37:52,840 Speaker 13: song's lyrics. And when Gaby did come out in her 569 00:37:52,960 --> 00:37:56,480 Speaker 13: late teens, she found her community doing poetry readings at 570 00:37:56,560 --> 00:37:58,000 Speaker 13: cafes across New York. 571 00:37:59,760 --> 00:38:01,799 Speaker 14: He just would be there in his little suit, having 572 00:38:01,920 --> 00:38:04,600 Speaker 14: just come from his job at Cafa Costello, and like 573 00:38:05,120 --> 00:38:08,640 Speaker 14: here he is in the village on Saint Mark's in 574 00:38:08,760 --> 00:38:11,480 Speaker 14: New York City, like at this little gay cafe, just 575 00:38:11,560 --> 00:38:14,440 Speaker 14: standing in the back while his daughter is reciting a 576 00:38:14,520 --> 00:38:15,919 Speaker 14: poem about loving a girl. 577 00:38:16,160 --> 00:38:19,919 Speaker 4: You know, people came over from all I said, look 578 00:38:20,000 --> 00:38:22,360 Speaker 4: at this man, this girl is rocking it. 579 00:38:22,520 --> 00:38:24,320 Speaker 3: You know, it would be like a room full of 580 00:38:24,400 --> 00:38:27,640 Speaker 3: all these gay kids, like cast out gay kids, and like. 581 00:38:28,120 --> 00:38:31,279 Speaker 4: One dad, oh the pro papa. I still live my dad. 582 00:38:33,680 --> 00:38:37,759 Speaker 4: Sometimes me and and my wife were the only parents there. 583 00:38:38,400 --> 00:38:40,560 Speaker 4: Sometimes I was definitely the only dad there. 584 00:38:40,960 --> 00:38:43,800 Speaker 3: And people would be like, it's like he's standing in 585 00:38:43,880 --> 00:38:46,319 Speaker 3: for my dad, who I haven't talked to in twenty years. 586 00:38:46,520 --> 00:38:49,320 Speaker 3: That sucks, and they would tell him like, thank you 587 00:38:49,400 --> 00:38:53,719 Speaker 3: for being here. When other people of his age group 588 00:38:53,840 --> 00:38:56,520 Speaker 3: and other like Puerto Rican dads and moms have had 589 00:38:56,600 --> 00:39:00,880 Speaker 3: issues with their gay kids, the world open themselves up 590 00:39:01,320 --> 00:39:04,120 Speaker 3: to talk to them and to help them try to 591 00:39:04,200 --> 00:39:05,560 Speaker 3: find their way together. 592 00:39:07,200 --> 00:39:10,040 Speaker 7: That's why for Charlie, the song is actually much more 593 00:39:10,040 --> 00:39:14,440 Speaker 7: about Donandres than about Simon. It's a song for parents. 594 00:39:14,880 --> 00:39:24,760 Speaker 9: Tocate and consume. M itira do or die no para Simon. 595 00:39:25,680 --> 00:39:31,719 Speaker 7: Simon is who Simone is, but parents can change, Charlie says, and. 596 00:39:31,840 --> 00:39:36,800 Speaker 4: Should Aura babaye, Mama see wedding, cambial. 597 00:39:50,360 --> 00:39:51,680 Speaker 7: And one more thing. 598 00:39:54,960 --> 00:39:58,120 Speaker 10: Talian cute and cute and cute and cube. 599 00:39:59,000 --> 00:40:02,400 Speaker 7: If you think you know what's coming, you are absolutely correct. 600 00:40:03,080 --> 00:40:05,839 Speaker 10: First of all, if I did a cover of the song, 601 00:40:06,080 --> 00:40:10,239 Speaker 10: I would not miss gender Simone. I would change the pronouns. 602 00:40:11,000 --> 00:40:13,120 Speaker 10: I would like for my interpretation of it to be 603 00:40:15,040 --> 00:40:20,280 Speaker 10: much more faithful to what Simone was feeling or Simone 604 00:40:20,360 --> 00:40:22,760 Speaker 10: talked like from the perspective of Simone. 605 00:40:23,280 --> 00:40:26,760 Speaker 7: And Simon in this version would actually enjoy their life, 606 00:40:27,120 --> 00:40:30,600 Speaker 7: their purse, their lipstick, their skirt aids would no longer 607 00:40:30,680 --> 00:40:34,279 Speaker 7: be a death sentence and finish the song off very 608 00:40:34,360 --> 00:40:35,960 Speaker 7: much alive and thriving. 609 00:40:56,280 --> 00:40:59,960 Speaker 1: That's Alana Casanova Burgess, host of La Brega Season two, 610 00:41:00,480 --> 00:41:04,200 Speaker 1: a podcast series from Futuro Studios and WNYC Studios. The 611 00:41:04,320 --> 00:41:08,120 Speaker 1: episode You Heard from Labrega was written by Alana Casanova Burgess, 612 00:41:08,200 --> 00:41:11,800 Speaker 1: produced by Gini Montalbo with help from Dasha Sandoval. It 613 00:41:12,000 --> 00:41:15,120 Speaker 1: was edited by Mark Pagan and Joe Plourd was the 614 00:41:15,200 --> 00:41:15,880 Speaker 1: sound engineer.