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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Greece. Did Brian Coburger, the alleged

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Speaker 1: killer of four Beautiful University Idaho students, actually keep a

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Speaker 1: souvenir of the murders. I'm a big scrap booker, and

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Speaker 1: I not only put photos of every event. Right now,

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Speaker 1: I'm still stuck on Christmas of twenty seventeen. I have

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Speaker 1: church bulletins, I have Christmas cards, all sorts of things

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Speaker 1: I put in with the photos. Is that how he

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Speaker 1: viewed the murders, like a concert he attended, or his

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Speaker 1: junior senior prom or some other big event in his life,

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Speaker 1: that he actually kept mementos a souvenir, so to speak,

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Speaker 1: that amidst an alleged internal affairs investigation that could threaten

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Speaker 1: the state's case as well as the possible demolition of

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Speaker 1: the crime scene. We just saw in the Alex Murdai

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Speaker 1: case that the jury went back to the scene of

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Speaker 1: the crime. If that home, that house where the students

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Speaker 1: were murdered is demolished, will that somehow result in a

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Speaker 1: problem for the prosecution. All this swirling as news continues

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Speaker 1: to develop day by day literally in the prosecution of

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Speaker 1: Brian Coburger and a quadruple slay case. I mean it.

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Speaker 1: See Grace, this is Crime Stories. Thank you for being

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Speaker 1: with us here at Fox Nation and Serious M one eleven.

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Speaker 1: First of all, I want to talk about what was

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Speaker 1: discovered the alleged mento kept by Brian Coburger. Take a

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Speaker 1: listen to Tracy Walder, former CIA and FBI special agent.

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Speaker 1: If he kept sort of a souvenir, Really, it points

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Speaker 1: to just that that he, for his ego purposes, wanted

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Speaker 1: to keep a souvenir of this crime, wanted to keep

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Speaker 1: a souvenir of what he believed that he had successfully done.

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Speaker 1: And I always think a lot of times with criminals

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Speaker 1: that I've seen, it's always their ego that gets them

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Speaker 1: in the end. You know. I do think that he

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Speaker 1: was very confident in what he had done, and I

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Speaker 1: believe that he felt he hadn't left any evidence behind.

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Speaker 1: But it's always their ego that's their undoing. And I

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Speaker 1: believed he wanted a trophy, if you will, of the

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Speaker 1: crime that he had committed. With me and all Star

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Speaker 1: panel to make sense of what we know right now.

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Speaker 1: But first I want to go out to senior reporter

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Speaker 1: for Dailymail dot Com, Kaitlin Becker, who has been on

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Speaker 1: the Coburger prosecution from the very very beginning. Caitlin, thank

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Speaker 1: you for being with us. What exactly are we talking about?

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Speaker 1: We're talking about an ID here. Nancy Sorts had told

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Speaker 1: News Nation that Coburger was found with an ID connected

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Speaker 1: to someone involved in the murders. They weren't specific about

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Speaker 1: a victim, but that's what we're assuming, that it's an

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Speaker 1: ID belonging to a victim in his possession after the murders. Nancy.

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Speaker 1: There has been a lot of debate about where this

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Speaker 1: idea is found. I tend to disagree with a lot

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Speaker 1: of the reporting, but it was collected by police during

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Speaker 1: the search of his parents' property and his car in

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Speaker 1: allbrights Philip Pennsylvania, Well, that's certainly an air is it down, Caitlin,

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Speaker 1: because it's got to either be hidden away, squirreled away

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Speaker 1: in the home or somewhere in the car. Now, let's

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Speaker 1: think this through. We know the facts of the case.

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Speaker 1: So Chris mcdonnah joining me, Director Coal Case Foundation, former

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Speaker 1: homicide detective and host of a YouTube channel, The Interview Room. Chris,

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Speaker 1: you've got two choices about where the idea was found,

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Speaker 1: and we do believe it was an ID such as

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Speaker 1: a driver's license or a student ID belonging to one

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Speaker 1: of the four victims. Now also know that Coburger was

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Speaker 1: stalking at least one of the three women online, maybe

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Speaker 1: dating back all the way to twenty twenty one, before

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Speaker 1: he even started his PhD program at Washington State University,

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Speaker 1: which is a whole another can of worms. We'll circle

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Speaker 1: back to that Caitlin Backer and entire panel, but there's

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Speaker 1: only two places we know that this license. We're going

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Speaker 1: to go with a license or a driver's ID or

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Speaker 1: student ID was found either in his car or in

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Speaker 1: his parents house. Did he travel cross country with that

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Speaker 1: ID in the Elantra? Did he have it that close

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Speaker 1: at hand? I mean, Chris McDonough, you know what my

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Speaker 1: purse is, my pocketbook, it's a rubber band, and in

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Speaker 1: the rubber and I had my driver's license, to credit

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Speaker 1: cards and a whole bunch of other stuff like a

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Speaker 1: cost code card. I have some driver's licenses and credit

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Speaker 1: cards my children made from me when they were about

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Speaker 1: three years old. They drew them on the back of

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Speaker 1: little cards and you know, drew a picture from my

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Speaker 1: face and made up fake numbers. For my driver's license.

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Speaker 1: I carry those to this day. So just what does

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Speaker 1: that mean? And you're a mind Chris mcdonna. Can't you

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Speaker 1: just imagine Coburger driving cross country with his father all

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Speaker 1: the way from Washington State University home to his family

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Speaker 1: home in the Poconos with that driver's license. That student

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Speaker 1: id right there with him so he could hold on

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Speaker 1: to it. Absolutely, Nancy, I mean, this is all about

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Speaker 1: power and control for him. And that car is so

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Speaker 1: significant to Coburger because it gives him the sense of

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Speaker 1: not only reliving the incident, because as he can remember

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Speaker 1: all those times potentially they drove back there, allegedly twelve

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Speaker 1: separate times. Now he potentially has a trophy from one

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Speaker 1: of the victims here and as they unpacked, this individual's

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Speaker 1: suspectology is what we call it. I can't help but

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Speaker 1: go back to a conversation we had early on your

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Speaker 1: show about through the correlation between some of the study

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Speaker 1: he potentially could have been doing with BTK. BTK took

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Speaker 1: Nancy Fox's driver's license, And when I heard this and

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Speaker 1: read the story from Kalin, I thought to myself, Holy cow,

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Speaker 1: is this guy actually potentially laying over his behavior on

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Speaker 1: something that he was studying. I would submit to you,

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Speaker 1: We're going to see a lot more about these correlations.

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Speaker 1: I would suspect as this case continues to unpack it self.

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Speaker 1: You know what you said that almost clinically, but let

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Speaker 1: me break it down and regular people talk. You're absolutely correct,

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Speaker 1: Chris McDonough that he Brian Coberger, apparently kept souvenirs of

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Speaker 1: the murders, and you were talking about his studies, and yes,

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Speaker 1: we did talk about them here on crime stories where

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Speaker 1: he would actually ask felons, violent felons, I'm talking murderers, rapist,

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Speaker 1: child molesters, how did you pick your victim? How did

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Speaker 1: you escape, how did you get away? Did you quote

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Speaker 1: achieve your goal? His words, not mine? In other words,

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Speaker 1: did you perform the murder or the rape? How did

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Speaker 1: that make you feel? He was getting vicarious thrills through

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Speaker 1: the crimes of other violent felons, reliving their experience, speaking

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Speaker 1: of one of the many, many killers that kept mementos,

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Speaker 1: or as it's called, trophies. That makes me think hunters

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Speaker 1: that put the annual head upon the wall. Talking about

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Speaker 1: humans human trophies. I'm referring right now to Geff Dahmer

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Speaker 1: and our cut b as a brother. Listen to Simon

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Speaker 1: Whistler at biographics. Undoubtedly one of the modern history's most

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Speaker 1: notorious and abhorrent killers, his crimes for the stuff of

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Speaker 1: nice mess. Over the course of thirteen years, he prowled

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Speaker 1: for men and lured them back to his house before

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Speaker 1: drugging them and strangling them. In all, he took the

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Speaker 1: lives of seventeen men between nineteen seventy eight and nineteen

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Speaker 1: ninety one. But simply killing his victims wasn't enough for

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Speaker 1: Jeffrey Dahma. He never wanted them to leave, so he

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Speaker 1: saved several trophies, including severed heads, eventually even eight parts

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Speaker 1: of the victims. He also kept the victims genitals. I

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Speaker 1: can imagine we're talking about their penises and their testicles,

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Speaker 1: so that I started to say, is one of the

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Speaker 1: most outlandish or most unbelievable trophies kept by a killer.

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Speaker 1: But they all are. And right now I'm pretty sure

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Speaker 1: I need a shrink or a drink, But since I'm

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Speaker 1: a teetotaler, I'll go with a shrink. Doctor Jorry Crows

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Speaker 1: and joining me Psychologists faculty Saint Leo University and consultant

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Speaker 1: with a blue Wall Institute. He is the author of Operations,

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Speaker 1: Doctor Jorry. Thank you for being with us, Doctor Jory.

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Speaker 1: I heard Chris McDonough say power and control. Power and control.

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Speaker 1: Why is keeping someone's genitals after you mutilated them, either

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Speaker 1: before postmortem or their student ID. How does that give

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Speaker 1: you power or control over your dead victim? Well, the

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Speaker 1: power and control is kind of the big picture when

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Speaker 1: you individualize it down to the person. It's their recall,

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Speaker 1: it's the fantasy that they attached to it. Wait, I'm

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Speaker 1: trying to absorb everything you're saying. You know, you experts,

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Speaker 1: and that goes for you too, Kaitlyn Becker. You give

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Speaker 1: us so much information. It's like drinking out of the

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Speaker 1: fire hygien. Okay, you said relive because as I told

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Speaker 1: you all over our again is me still trying to

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Speaker 1: ken't play catch up and make the twenty seventeen Christmas album.

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Speaker 1: And yes, I stopped the whole time. I see a

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Speaker 1: picture and I'm like, oh, I remember that putting up

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Speaker 1: the tent Soul and we were laughing, and John Davis

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Speaker 1: started to playing the piano and I made him stop,

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Speaker 1: and I found out it was really on a cell phone.

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Speaker 1: The whole time I relive that moment. Is that what

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Speaker 1: you're saying when I see that picture. Yes, And usually

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Speaker 1: as they develop this fantasy, it becomes what they wanted

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Speaker 1: to be in their mind. Like in for Cormans. You know,

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Speaker 1: if they did something that wasn't right that they would

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Speaker 1: like to do, you know, if they had done it differently,

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Speaker 1: that's incorporated into the fantasy and that's brought out. You know,

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Speaker 1: I'm looking from the clinical perspective when I worked in

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Speaker 1: prison and work with these violent offenders and the sex offenders,

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Speaker 1: you know, getting into that fantasy light and how they

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Speaker 1: related to it through these momentums that they kept time

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Speaker 1: stories with Nancy Grace. Let me just ask, did anybody

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Speaker 1: on this panel ever watched Desperate Housewives? I did? Who's that?

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Speaker 1: Alan Kaitlin? Okay, I never have time to watch TV,

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Speaker 1: but I did get hooked on Desperate Housewives and about

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Speaker 1: every other third Sunday night, i'd watch it. And I

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Speaker 1: remember one guy, he was the villain. Remember he ended

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Speaker 1: up marrying one of the housewives. I can't remember any

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Speaker 1: of their names, but he had lost his wife and

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Speaker 1: daughter in a crash, and she was that Nicolete Sheridan. Yes,

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Speaker 1: don't look at me like that, Jack. I'll watch you

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Speaker 1: one a program and you give me a look. Anyway,

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Speaker 1: he tries to kill her because she mowed down his

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Speaker 1: wife and daughter years and years and years before, and

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Speaker 1: insinuates himself into her life. I think that's how it went. Anyway.

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Speaker 1: In the end, he's sitting in a jail cell, much

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Speaker 1: as doctor Jerry crossin just described, and he's reliving the

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Speaker 1: night not of the attempted murder, but when his wife

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Speaker 1: and daughter said, Hey, we're going to run down to

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Speaker 1: the store. You want to drive with us, and he

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Speaker 1: said no, and they had the rack and died. He

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Speaker 1: relives it over and over and over. But in his

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Speaker 1: mind he goes, no, it's going outside, don't go outside.

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Speaker 1: Stay in here and let's decorate the tree or something

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Speaker 1: like that, and he creates an entire alternate fantasy about

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Speaker 1: what really happened. And for the rest of his life

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Speaker 1: he'll be in that jail cell reliving the moment over

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Speaker 1: and over and replaying it out, just like doctor Jerry

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Speaker 1: Cross and said about how he wishes he could have

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Speaker 1: done it better. And don't you know Johnny Nacarado, former

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Speaker 1: sheriff sergeant crime reconstruction forensic team supervisor at the Johnny

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Speaker 1: Law dot Com. Johnny, And don't you know, if he

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Speaker 1: could do it all over, he would not have left

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Speaker 1: the knife sheath at the murder scene. Hello, right, And

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Speaker 1: he would not have turned his cell phone on when

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Speaker 1: he was a few miles away from the house that

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Speaker 1: we can now trace his circuitous out back to his

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Speaker 1: housing at Washington State University the Knight of the Murders.

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Speaker 1: So he's living in the fantasy land about what he should, could,

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Speaker 1: would have done that Doctor Jerry Crowson and Chris mcdonnough

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Speaker 1: just described, Yeah, that was a little bit of a

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Speaker 1: food par on his whole entire plan. I don't think

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Speaker 1: he realized the technology that reason law enforcement have available

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Speaker 1: to us is just like you know, we learned so

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Speaker 1: much from trial. I bet if he watched the current

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Speaker 1: trial that we just all watched from South Carolina, Murdogue,

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Speaker 1: may he Rottenhill? May he Rotten Hill? And if he

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Speaker 1: would have watched that trial before he committed these murders,

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Speaker 1: do you think he would have done things a little

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Speaker 1: bit differently? I think one hundred percent absolutely. The ID

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Speaker 1: cards that is another foodp on. Now let's say that

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Speaker 1: it's true. Are you what are you attempting to say

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Speaker 1: faux pa because it sounds like you're saying poop. Yeah. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I thought he had some unusual and unique derivative. But

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Speaker 1: it's just a mispronounce. Okay, go ahead, I mean he

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Speaker 1: that right now we're talking about it's either Kitlin backer.

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Speaker 1: Do you believe it's a driver's license or student I

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Speaker 1: d Honestly, I think it could be either one of them.

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Speaker 1: I think it's whatever was easily accessible that would be.

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Speaker 1: That would be my guest. Which you know, think about it,

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Speaker 1: Johnny knock Carroto, you're the crime scene reconstructionist. I'm thinking

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Speaker 1: about him at the moment of the murders fumbling around

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Speaker 1: and finding a trophy or did he just find it

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Speaker 1: by random? Was it sitting out on the kitchen counter

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Speaker 1: when he walked through and he picked it up? But

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Speaker 1: I could see Hoburger fumbling around in one of their

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Speaker 1: bedrooms trying to find something to take. And you know

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Speaker 1: another thing you could have taken, more like jewelry or

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Speaker 1: some other trophy that we don't know about. Johnny. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: let's just say that the rumor is true. It is

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Speaker 1: an ID card that is of one of the victims.

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Speaker 1: Now here's another thing. He's been stalking them. Did he

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Speaker 1: do a car clout and break in and take some

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Speaker 1: ivs out of purses? Wasn't he in the house prior

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Speaker 1: at one of these big parties, and you know our

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Speaker 1: girls leave their purses around. He covertly gets some IDs

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Speaker 1: out of there, knowing what he's going to do because

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Speaker 1: he knows he is not going to have time with

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Speaker 1: bloody gloves or all this physical evidence. With low Card's principle,

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Speaker 1: he's going to bring something to the scenes, take something away.

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Speaker 1: Did he take these IDs prior to versus the knife

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Speaker 1: of because that that's a pretty tight window. But the

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Speaker 1: surveillance footage of him having to give let these birders

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Speaker 1: get back in and get the footage of him getting

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Speaker 1: out of there, that's a short time, So we don't know.

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Speaker 1: I think if I think you're right, yeah, I do.

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Speaker 1: I think it might have been before. There just seems

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Speaker 1: to be so much evidence that there was this alleged

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Speaker 1: stalking from Coburger to the whole and to the girls

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Speaker 1: leading up to the murders that I had always, you know,

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Speaker 1: fearized that he had been in the house before it

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Speaker 1: likely disguised as a partygoer, and that would be ample

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Speaker 1: opportunity to, like he said, take something. I think he likely,

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Speaker 1: if I'm guessing, had other things that belonged to his

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Speaker 1: original target, and that the ID might have been one

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Speaker 1: of the things that he took ahead of time. I'll

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Speaker 1: be curious to see one of the victives had reported

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Speaker 1: it missing from the beginning, Cat Limbecker, you had been

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Speaker 1: saying that, and remind me everybody. I want to circle

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Speaker 1: back to the now. We believe, based on newly released evidence,

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Speaker 1: that Koburger had been actually in touch with or trying

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Speaker 1: to be in touch with, one of these female victims

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Speaker 1: dating back to twenty twenty one, which is before he

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Speaker 1: started his studies at Washington State University. That's a whole

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Speaker 1: other can of worms. Did he actually go to WSU?

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Speaker 1: Did he leave to Paul where he was studying across

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Speaker 1: the country because of a fixation on one of these girls?

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Speaker 1: How did that happen? Only a seasoned and veteran computer

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Speaker 1: tech guy, it's going to be able to unravel that.

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Speaker 1: But back to this what he may have taken, Guys,

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Speaker 1: take a lison to Aurica nineteen in as in now

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Speaker 1: you're hearing forensics psychologist doctor Joni Johnston in Mark of

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Speaker 1: a Killer. Listen, we know that one of Robert Hansen's victims,

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Speaker 1: he had a fish necklace that was so meaningful to

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Speaker 1: her that she never took it off, and even after

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Speaker 1: she died and it was later discovered what happened to her,

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Speaker 1: her family asked for that necklace back. When Robert Hanson

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Speaker 1: takes these trophies, he is extending his hunting. So he's

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Speaker 1: got the prize. Now his whole life, in some respects,

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Speaker 1: is about hunting. He's got trophies on his wall, He's

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Speaker 1: got trophies now hidden in his attic, so he feels

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Speaker 1: incredibly powerful. It's probably the peak of this entire experience

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Speaker 1: for him. Not only a memento to relive the incident,

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Speaker 1: like I'm reliving Christmas twenty seventeen with the twins and

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Speaker 1: David decorating the tree, but not only that mark take.

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Speaker 1: He's got a hell of a problem at trial. If

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Speaker 1: what Kaitlin Becker from Daily Mill is telling us, I

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Speaker 1: believe she is correct that he kept a memento. Oh man,

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Speaker 1: I'd love to spend that out and opening arguments to

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Speaker 1: the jury about him holding onto it, just looking at

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Speaker 1: it in his glove box in his car like it

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Speaker 1: was radioactive, knowing it was in there the entire two

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Speaker 1: thousand plus miles across the country. What is that, Kaitlin

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Speaker 1: jumping in? Yeah? Can I jump in? Really that? Yes?

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Speaker 1: I take them issue with the fact that some sources

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Speaker 1: had said it was found in the glove box. I

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Speaker 1: had passed through and looked through the search for ITT

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Speaker 1: just with a fine tooth. Cold you really have And

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Speaker 1: I gotta tell are you are there the same thing?

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Speaker 1: But I learned a lot listening to you. It was awesome.

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Speaker 1: Go ahead. I The only place I found mention of

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Speaker 1: IDs was in what was taken from inside Coburger's parents

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Speaker 1: house in Albright Spill And in the list it says

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Speaker 1: number thirty five on the list, I can read a

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Speaker 1: Q right now. It says ID cards cards plural inside

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Speaker 1: glove inside box, so it doesn't say inside a glove box,

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Speaker 1: and it's not from his car. It says ID cards

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Speaker 1: inside glove inside box, as if he's hiding the ID

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Speaker 1: in a glove and then hiding that glove in the box.

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Speaker 1: I'm curious who the glove blogs too. And I think

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Speaker 1: there's something so telling that if this is what is

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Speaker 1: referred to by the ID belonging to one of the victims,

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Speaker 1: not only was it traveling with him allegedly from Pullman,

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Speaker 1: Washington to Albright Spill, but it's inside the home so

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Speaker 1: close to him, and it sounds like it's something that's

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Speaker 1: hidden to me. So I think that makes it even worse. Well,

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Speaker 1: let me add something psychologically real quick, hold on. I

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Speaker 1: agree with Caitlin Becker and I started our discussion with

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Speaker 1: it's either in the glove compartment in the car or

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Speaker 1: somewhere in the family home. And my reading of the

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Speaker 1: search warrant, of course we're going to have to hear

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Speaker 1: it from the horse's mouth, is what Kaitlyn Becker just said.

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Speaker 1: I think it's found. The student ID, if that's what

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Speaker 1: it is, is in the parents home. It's inside a glove,

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Speaker 1: you know, the perfect place to look for everything. It's

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Speaker 1: always in somebody's underwear and sock drawer. That's where everybody

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Speaker 1: hides everything. Yeah, I still have hidden in there my

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Speaker 1: children's teeth at the tooth ferry took in little bags

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Speaker 1: with the date on it. I don't know whose tooth

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Speaker 1: goes to his mouth. I didn't think of that, but

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Speaker 1: that said, I still do it, and I even know better.

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Speaker 1: So Mark Tate, I believe she's right. And I could

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Speaker 1: spend that out in opening argument too, because he did

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Speaker 1: go across the country with the ID just thinking about it.

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Speaker 1: Then he takes great care, Mark Tate, putting the ID

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Speaker 1: inside the glove inside of a box in his family home.

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Speaker 1: You know, he had to very carefully pick that spot. Sure,

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Speaker 1: it's going to come back to bite him like a

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Speaker 1: rattlesnake on the neck at trial, Mark Tate, Mark Tate,

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Speaker 1: a high profile trial lawyer with the Tate Group joining us.

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Speaker 1: Go ahead, and Mark take hey, yeah, that's a very

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Speaker 1: specific bite location you've chosen for where this piece of

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Speaker 1: evidence is going to hit him. But you know, usually, Nancy,

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Speaker 1: when I'm talking with you about these cases that get

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Speaker 1: this national and international attention, I enjoy pointing out to

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Speaker 1: you how I could defend the case, and it usually

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Speaker 1: sparks your ire and you come at me like a

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Speaker 1: spider monkey with how crazy I am. I've never been

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Speaker 1: compared to a spider monkey, but I'll lie tone. The

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Speaker 1: more I read that Caitlin writes, and the more that

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Speaker 1: I hear it in other areas, you know, in the media.

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Speaker 1: I would not be very pleased with having to serve

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Speaker 1: the role as a public defender in defending this guy.

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Speaker 1: The evidence is stacking up against him in a way

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Speaker 1: that I just don't see any room. I don't see

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Speaker 1: any daylight between him and the charges that he's going

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Speaker 1: to be facing. And you know, with the other cases

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Speaker 1: we've recently spoken about, you know, I tell you, if

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Speaker 1: the offender had called me when he committed the crime,

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Speaker 1: I could have kept him from talking in a way

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Speaker 1: that gets him convicted later. You know, I would defend

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Speaker 1: the guy charge right now with the Stormy Daniels cover

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Speaker 1: up payment, I could defend that. I could see a

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Speaker 1: way that I could defend it. I'm having a hard

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Speaker 1: time seeing a way that I can defend this case.

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Speaker 1: And as I've told you, and as you know I

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Speaker 1: like to do, I like to handle criminal defense matters

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Speaker 1: where I see some daylight, where I see a way

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Speaker 1: that I can make a difference for the defendant. I

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Speaker 1: don't see it here. I'll tell you it's going to

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Speaker 1: be really hard to explain a student ID or driver's

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Speaker 1: license in a glove in a box in his parents' home. Guys,

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Speaker 1: he's not the only one. Listen to our cut twenty

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Speaker 1: in as in now, The defense argued that since Farber's

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Speaker 1: body has never been found, no one knows if a

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Speaker 1: murder was committed. Prosecutor's point at key evidence found on

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Speaker 1: an sdcard owned by Goaliard, with photos they believe are

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Speaker 1: a Farver's leg and foot that matcher tattoos, also photos

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Speaker 1: of a blue and black tarp. They believe the picks

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Speaker 1: were Goallyard's trophy for getting away with murder. This left

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Speaker 1: foot depicted in this photograph is consistent, appears to be

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Speaker 1: consistent with a foot that's an a state of decomposition. Okay,

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Speaker 1: they're not the only ones. And that one was dealing

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Speaker 1: with Shanna Golier and arguing that since Carrie Farmer's body

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Speaker 1: was never found, no murder occurred, but they had photos, trophies,

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Speaker 1: the defendant had taken the victim's decomposing body. Joining me,

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Speaker 1: doctor Michelle Duprie you know her well now if you

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Speaker 1: watched any portion of the Alexa Murdog double murder trial,

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Speaker 1: you know doctor Michelle Dupresci is also working tirelessly regarding

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Speaker 1: the eximation and the re autopsy and what that means

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Speaker 1: in the case of Stephen Smith, also out of South

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Speaker 1: Carolina Pathologists, medical examiner, former detective, and for US very

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Speaker 1: significant author of homicide investigation field guide. You know, doctor Dupree,

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Speaker 1: You've seen a lot of dead bodies, but the perp

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Speaker 1: that keeps a trophy that, like we think Coburger did,

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Speaker 1: Ed Guine, a serial killer, made masks with his victims' faces.

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Speaker 1: Von Milott kept his victims camping equipment at least seven

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Speaker 1: that we know of. He would start people camping, kill them,

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Speaker 1: bury them in the forest, but yet keep little bits

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Speaker 1: of their camping equipment. Listen to this one, doctor Dupree.

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Speaker 1: Alex the Mangel made a scalp wig. Now that was

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Speaker 1: up in Westchester, New York, but police originally deemed it

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Speaker 1: to be a wig, but it was actually the victim's scalp,

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Speaker 1: which the defendant wore as a wig when he grabbed

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Speaker 1: his next victim. Okay, we've all seen hamible elector. That's

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Speaker 1: nothing compared to the real life killers. Now, one guy

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Speaker 1: John and George Hay kept his victim's dog. Much has

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Speaker 1: been made about the dog in this case. The dog

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Speaker 1: in this case is alive, and well and actually has

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Speaker 1: to go fund me. Robert Hanson, as you know, kept

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Speaker 1: his victim's jewelry. Doctor Dupree, Johnny Christie kept his victim's

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Speaker 1: bodies hidden in the kitchen for a really long time.

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Speaker 1: Rifkin kept all sorts of trophies like a license plate,

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Speaker 1: under wear, bras, driver's licenses, jewelry, a library card, which

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Speaker 1: is kind of like in this case we think as

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Speaker 1: a student id Stanley Dean Baker kept his victims bones,

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Speaker 1: only select bones, not all of the bones. Particularly he

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Speaker 1: kept the finger bones. Dennis Nilsen kept body parts. Edmund

425
00:27:22,480 --> 00:27:26,199
Speaker 1: Kemper kept his mother's head. Now that's it, And I

426
00:27:26,240 --> 00:27:28,840
Speaker 1: could go on, I've got stacks and stacks of these guys,

427
00:27:28,920 --> 00:27:32,040
Speaker 1: But what about it, Doctor Deperee, you ever seen anything

428
00:27:32,080 --> 00:27:34,359
Speaker 1: like it? Nancy? I have actually, And to me, I

429
00:27:34,400 --> 00:27:36,280
Speaker 1: knew you were going to say that that's not a shock.

430
00:27:36,520 --> 00:27:38,840
Speaker 1: It may shock other people, but I knew you had, Okay,

431
00:27:38,840 --> 00:27:42,320
Speaker 1: go ahead. These people are scary. I mean, these people

432
00:27:42,359 --> 00:27:46,160
Speaker 1: are so out of touch with reality. I mean, how

433
00:27:46,240 --> 00:27:49,520
Speaker 1: you even explain this. I've had serial killer cases where

434
00:27:49,520 --> 00:27:51,520
Speaker 1: they did many of the same things like this, and

435
00:27:51,560 --> 00:27:53,600
Speaker 1: they're just sound like scary. I do not want to

436
00:27:53,600 --> 00:27:56,600
Speaker 1: meet these people anywhere, anytime, not in the dark alley

437
00:27:56,680 --> 00:28:00,320
Speaker 1: or anywhere. You know, I'm starting to believe that, doctor

438
00:28:00,359 --> 00:28:04,600
Speaker 1: Michelle Dupre, It's not that uncommon that killers keep mementos thoughts.

439
00:28:04,800 --> 00:28:09,040
Speaker 1: You're right, Nancy, And during my time as an investigator,

440
00:28:09,280 --> 00:28:11,560
Speaker 1: we actually saw some of that. I've even seen where

441
00:28:11,640 --> 00:28:14,480
Speaker 1: some of the killers would have turned the funeral of

442
00:28:14,520 --> 00:28:16,960
Speaker 1: their victim, even go so far as to put something

443
00:28:17,000 --> 00:28:20,240
Speaker 1: strange or a taunting note in the casket. I mean,

444
00:28:20,320 --> 00:28:23,360
Speaker 1: they do all sorts of strange things. It's just unbelievable.

445
00:28:23,480 --> 00:28:26,679
Speaker 1: All this is swirling as we learn about a potential

446
00:28:26,800 --> 00:28:32,000
Speaker 1: internal affairs investigation that could spell doom for the prosecution's case.

447
00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:34,480
Speaker 1: Take a listen to our cut three sixty three. This

448
00:28:34,560 --> 00:28:38,880
Speaker 1: is Amanda Eustace with WNAP. Documents of protection were filed

449
00:28:38,920 --> 00:28:42,560
Speaker 1: prohibiting anyone from discussing the contents of the internal affairs

450
00:28:42,600 --> 00:28:45,840
Speaker 1: investigation material. Regal says, it's hard to tell if this

451
00:28:45,920 --> 00:28:48,680
Speaker 1: is good or bad news for either side trying the case.

452
00:28:49,120 --> 00:28:53,680
Speaker 1: The last thing that a prosecution wants is to have

453
00:28:53,760 --> 00:28:56,640
Speaker 1: to do a case twice, so they want to make

454
00:28:56,640 --> 00:29:01,160
Speaker 1: sure that they have met the due process obligations and

455
00:29:01,280 --> 00:29:04,840
Speaker 1: provided the things that they're required to provide because that's

456
00:29:04,880 --> 00:29:08,320
Speaker 1: the only way that they get to do the case once. Now,

457
00:29:08,320 --> 00:29:11,320
Speaker 1: it's unclear over we'll ever learn what the information is about.

458
00:29:11,400 --> 00:29:14,720
Speaker 1: As of now, Brian Coburger remains locked up in Idaho jail.

459
00:29:14,840 --> 00:29:18,000
Speaker 1: His preliminary hearing is scheduled for June twenty six. Kayalen

460
00:29:18,040 --> 00:29:21,960
Speaker 1: Becker joining us from dailymail dot com, investigative reporter who

461
00:29:22,040 --> 00:29:26,160
Speaker 1: has thoroughly analyzed all the aspects of what we know

462
00:29:26,240 --> 00:29:30,239
Speaker 1: so far in the Brian Coburger prosecution. Caitlin, what can

463
00:29:30,320 --> 00:29:35,000
Speaker 1: you tell us about a potential internal affairs investigation? You know, Nancy? Unfortunately,

464
00:29:35,040 --> 00:29:37,640
Speaker 1: like you just heard, there really is not a lot

465
00:29:37,680 --> 00:29:41,760
Speaker 1: of information out there. Basically, all we know is that

466
00:29:41,840 --> 00:29:45,880
Speaker 1: an officer involved in the investigation had some sort of

467
00:29:46,520 --> 00:29:51,720
Speaker 1: Brady violation was being investigated internally, and that's kind of it. Okay,

468
00:29:51,880 --> 00:29:55,280
Speaker 1: let's talk about how devastating that would be to the police.

469
00:29:55,320 --> 00:29:58,920
Speaker 1: But doctor Jerry Crossen, psychologists and faculty at Saint Leo University,

470
00:29:59,040 --> 00:30:01,240
Speaker 1: I heard you jumping in earlier. What were you saying?

471
00:30:01,560 --> 00:30:05,040
Speaker 1: I was talking about the hidden momento there. One of

472
00:30:05,080 --> 00:30:08,800
Speaker 1: the key things to you. Look at is how secretive

473
00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:12,080
Speaker 1: he placed you know, that's a value to him. So

474
00:30:12,280 --> 00:30:15,960
Speaker 1: hiding it like he did to me, that's very significant, Okay,

475
00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:20,040
Speaker 1: because now it becomes more personalized as a trophy or momento.

476
00:30:20,960 --> 00:30:23,320
Speaker 1: I agree. I'm just imagining him going through all of

477
00:30:23,320 --> 00:30:25,480
Speaker 1: the effort to find the right hiding place for the

478
00:30:25,600 --> 00:30:28,720
Speaker 1: student id of one of the people he murdered. Oh yeah,

479
00:30:43,080 --> 00:30:49,720
Speaker 1: time stories with Nancy Grace. I want to talk about

480
00:30:49,800 --> 00:30:53,480
Speaker 1: Chris mcdonna, a former homicide detective now star of the

481
00:30:53,640 --> 00:30:57,760
Speaker 1: Interview Room, also the director at the Coal Case Foundation

482
00:30:57,800 --> 00:31:03,880
Speaker 1: dot org. Chris mcdonna an eternal, an eternal affairs investigation.

483
00:31:04,160 --> 00:31:07,640
Speaker 1: In other words, a potential dirty cop that can spell

484
00:31:07,800 --> 00:31:11,800
Speaker 1: doom for your case. And you would never believe the

485
00:31:11,880 --> 00:31:17,760
Speaker 1: cops that are somehow dirty. One bad apple can spoil

486
00:31:18,160 --> 00:31:22,720
Speaker 1: the whole bunch, and I'll never forget Chris McDonagh. I tried.

487
00:31:22,880 --> 00:31:25,840
Speaker 1: It wasn't called child sex trafficking or human trafficking then,

488
00:31:26,360 --> 00:31:29,880
Speaker 1: but I was trying to find a little girl that

489
00:31:30,040 --> 00:31:33,440
Speaker 1: was taken it like age thirteen and pimped out, I

490
00:31:33,560 --> 00:31:36,680
Speaker 1: mean pimped out. I couldn't find her, couldn't find her

491
00:31:36,920 --> 00:31:41,480
Speaker 1: couldn't find her. I and three vice detectives to work

492
00:31:41,520 --> 00:31:44,080
Speaker 1: in the streets and it was cold. Oh, it was

493
00:31:44,120 --> 00:31:47,920
Speaker 1: so cold outside for months, so I would handle my

494
00:31:47,960 --> 00:31:50,719
Speaker 1: plan arrangement calendar and then go out on the street

495
00:31:51,000 --> 00:31:53,640
Speaker 1: looking for this girl. We finally found her. And by

496
00:31:53,640 --> 00:31:56,000
Speaker 1: the way, when I did find her, she was in

497
00:31:56,040 --> 00:31:59,680
Speaker 1: a flophouse down on Stuart Avenue in Atlanta, where everybody's

498
00:31:59,680 --> 00:32:03,000
Speaker 1: sold dope and got hookers. I went in there and looked.

499
00:32:03,000 --> 00:32:04,360
Speaker 1: There were like three or four women in there, and

500
00:32:04,400 --> 00:32:07,040
Speaker 1: I came out, She's not in there. Why did you

501
00:32:07,080 --> 00:32:10,160
Speaker 1: even bring me here? They went, it's her and the

502
00:32:10,200 --> 00:32:13,360
Speaker 1: white boots. I went back in. This little girl, now fourteen,

503
00:32:13,640 --> 00:32:16,520
Speaker 1: looked like a thirty five year old woman with the

504
00:32:16,640 --> 00:32:20,920
Speaker 1: long weave and all the makeup and the high boots

505
00:32:20,960 --> 00:32:23,800
Speaker 1: and the short skirt and the false syelashes. It was

506
00:32:23,840 --> 00:32:26,040
Speaker 1: just like I couldn't eat when we got all that

507
00:32:26,200 --> 00:32:28,360
Speaker 1: off of her. She looked like she had to have

508
00:32:28,600 --> 00:32:30,560
Speaker 1: a little school uniform and go to school with my

509
00:32:30,640 --> 00:32:35,400
Speaker 1: daughter Lucy. But that said, we got the prosecute, we

510
00:32:35,720 --> 00:32:40,640
Speaker 1: got the conviction. It was about eight months later I

511
00:32:40,680 --> 00:32:43,840
Speaker 1: was working and somebody had a TV going on Meete

512
00:32:43,920 --> 00:32:46,200
Speaker 1: and I looked up and there was a sketch artist,

513
00:32:46,480 --> 00:32:50,320
Speaker 1: Chris McDonough in a federal courtroom, and I went, wow,

514
00:32:51,240 --> 00:32:54,040
Speaker 1: that kind of looked like Harrington, and I just kept

515
00:32:54,040 --> 00:32:56,960
Speaker 1: going because you know the sketch artists work never looks

516
00:32:57,000 --> 00:33:01,680
Speaker 1: like the person. Well, guess what it was. And his codefendants,

517
00:33:02,040 --> 00:33:06,000
Speaker 1: my three vice guys that I had worked with every

518
00:33:06,040 --> 00:33:08,840
Speaker 1: single day trying to find this little girl, as it

519
00:33:08,880 --> 00:33:13,720
Speaker 1: turned out, when I wasn't around, would bust dope lords

520
00:33:14,200 --> 00:33:17,360
Speaker 1: and take all their gold, jewelry and their money. And

521
00:33:17,440 --> 00:33:20,320
Speaker 1: it was so bad the fans did a sting on

522
00:33:20,400 --> 00:33:24,320
Speaker 1: the cops. Now how a jury cared about whether a

523
00:33:24,400 --> 00:33:26,800
Speaker 1: doper lost his gold chain, I don't know, but they

524
00:33:26,840 --> 00:33:31,840
Speaker 1: were prosecuted and convicted. So you think you know somebody,

525
00:33:32,040 --> 00:33:35,640
Speaker 1: you don't know them at all. What can an internal

526
00:33:35,840 --> 00:33:40,920
Speaker 1: affairs investigation due to a case, Well, it's as you've

527
00:33:41,400 --> 00:33:45,840
Speaker 1: eloquently laid out, Nancy, as a prosecutors were snipmare potential

528
00:33:46,920 --> 00:33:50,560
Speaker 1: and because you know, I actually got transferred into vice

529
00:33:51,360 --> 00:33:54,080
Speaker 1: years ago in nineteen eighty four to eighty six because

530
00:33:54,800 --> 00:33:58,040
Speaker 1: we had a guy who was taking favors on the

531
00:33:58,080 --> 00:34:04,080
Speaker 1: side for trans moving drugs to certain people and show

532
00:34:04,520 --> 00:34:07,320
Speaker 1: what this is about. The good news here is this

533
00:34:07,400 --> 00:34:11,520
Speaker 1: is Brady Discovery, right, and you can explain that forever, Nancy,

534
00:34:11,880 --> 00:34:15,399
Speaker 1: I have to go ahead. It was brought up by

535
00:34:15,440 --> 00:34:18,640
Speaker 1: the state, So the state was made aware of it

536
00:34:18,680 --> 00:34:21,920
Speaker 1: by the IA team, the Internal Affairs unit at the

537
00:34:21,960 --> 00:34:25,319
Speaker 1: PD and says, hey, one of our guys, by the way,

538
00:34:25,400 --> 00:34:28,080
Speaker 1: has this in his personnel file. You may want to

539
00:34:28,080 --> 00:34:31,960
Speaker 1: reveal this to the defense while you can and show

540
00:34:32,080 --> 00:34:35,360
Speaker 1: that's the upside of this, that the state brought it forward.

541
00:34:35,400 --> 00:34:38,279
Speaker 1: The downside is we don't know exactly what it is.

542
00:34:38,320 --> 00:34:42,440
Speaker 1: It could be just a citizens complaint about you know,

543
00:34:42,480 --> 00:34:46,359
Speaker 1: the officer was rude to me as much as Hey,

544
00:34:46,400 --> 00:34:50,200
Speaker 1: this guy's lied before, and you know, we need to

545
00:34:50,239 --> 00:34:53,279
Speaker 1: make sure that we get ahead of this. So it

546
00:34:53,320 --> 00:34:56,640
Speaker 1: could go either way. To Johnny Nacarate joining us former

547
00:34:56,760 --> 00:35:01,840
Speaker 1: shaff sergeant now Crime and Construction and for instance team supervisor.

548
00:35:02,760 --> 00:35:05,240
Speaker 1: You can find him at the Johnny law dot com.

549
00:35:05,320 --> 00:35:09,160
Speaker 1: Johnny as a former sheriff sergeant. You know what, every

550
00:35:09,200 --> 00:35:12,359
Speaker 1: cop that's dirty, they need to be thrown out and

551
00:35:12,400 --> 00:35:16,520
Speaker 1: prosecuted themselves, because it gives the rest of law enforcement,

552
00:35:17,040 --> 00:35:22,280
Speaker 1: who I believe are decent and honorable people a black eye,

553
00:35:22,840 --> 00:35:27,000
Speaker 1: and it can ruin a prosecution. When a jury finds

554
00:35:27,000 --> 00:35:31,880
Speaker 1: out a cop on the stand, a witness is dirty,

555
00:35:32,560 --> 00:35:34,839
Speaker 1: they can it can ruin the whole thing. Just like

556
00:35:34,880 --> 00:35:37,600
Speaker 1: an Alex Murlow. Let's use him again. Once he got

557
00:35:37,640 --> 00:35:40,000
Speaker 1: on the stand and he lied, it came out that

558
00:35:40,040 --> 00:35:43,640
Speaker 1: he had lied about being in those dog kennels at

559
00:35:43,640 --> 00:35:46,960
Speaker 1: the time of the martyrs, he lost all credibility. It

560
00:35:47,040 --> 00:35:49,560
Speaker 1: was over. He's a big fat liar. And if one

561
00:35:49,600 --> 00:35:52,719
Speaker 1: cop is lying, are they all lying? That's what can

562
00:35:52,719 --> 00:35:56,239
Speaker 1: go through the minds of the jury, Johnny and some

563
00:35:56,320 --> 00:35:59,000
Speaker 1: law enforcement. I mean, once you lie, and I mean

564
00:35:59,080 --> 00:36:01,319
Speaker 1: once you lie at all, whether it's an ia or

565
00:36:01,360 --> 00:36:04,399
Speaker 1: it's in court, you're done. It's a rat in the year.

566
00:36:04,800 --> 00:36:06,800
Speaker 1: Are going to be testifying anymore, and your career is

567
00:36:06,840 --> 00:36:09,439
Speaker 1: probably going to be over. Forget their career. Who cares

568
00:36:09,480 --> 00:36:12,840
Speaker 1: about their career? They did that to themselves. What about

569
00:36:12,920 --> 00:36:16,480
Speaker 1: the state's case? What about a true verdict? I mean,

570
00:36:16,520 --> 00:36:19,200
Speaker 1: didn't you see what happened in O. J. Simpson with

571
00:36:19,360 --> 00:36:25,080
Speaker 1: one cop? Oh? This Mark Tate, Johnny Knocarato, Yeah, I'll

572
00:36:25,080 --> 00:36:29,560
Speaker 1: tell you what a lion cop does. Johnny knocaratou is

573
00:36:29,640 --> 00:36:34,600
Speaker 1: in law enforcement. Uh, I'm not sure they teach pronunciation

574
00:36:34,719 --> 00:36:39,400
Speaker 1: necessarily of French colloquialism's foo pap. Let me enjoy my

575
00:36:39,520 --> 00:36:44,440
Speaker 1: one tiny triumph please. Mark is always right. I got

576
00:36:44,520 --> 00:36:46,719
Speaker 1: him on one thing. Let me enjoy the moment. For

577
00:36:46,760 --> 00:36:49,759
Speaker 1: peace's sake. You're enjoyed it, I am. I'm gonna say

578
00:36:49,760 --> 00:36:53,280
Speaker 1: it again, so pa woo. Okay, you know but so

579
00:36:53,280 --> 00:36:56,400
Speaker 1: so um yeah, yeah yeah. If you have an officer

580
00:36:56,520 --> 00:37:00,160
Speaker 1: on the stand upon whom the state relies, and the

581
00:37:00,440 --> 00:37:03,560
Speaker 1: defense catches him in a lie and they're able to

582
00:37:03,600 --> 00:37:06,480
Speaker 1: expose it for the first time in cross examination in

583
00:37:06,520 --> 00:37:09,720
Speaker 1: front of a jury, it can have a massive impact. However,

584
00:37:10,239 --> 00:37:15,240
Speaker 1: I would suggest that perhaps Johnny is a little bit

585
00:37:15,640 --> 00:37:19,920
Speaker 1: wrong in thinking that the state doesn't rely on lying

586
00:37:20,400 --> 00:37:23,680
Speaker 1: people all the time. Okay, Mark Tate, I did not

587
00:37:23,760 --> 00:37:29,759
Speaker 1: given to start confidence about confidential informance. Of course, they're

588
00:37:29,800 --> 00:37:33,440
Speaker 1: all dopers and bad guys themselves. That's who cis are,

589
00:37:33,880 --> 00:37:37,680
Speaker 1: Mark Tay, As I have often said to juries, who

590
00:37:37,719 --> 00:37:41,280
Speaker 1: do you think that bad guys hang out with nuns

591
00:37:41,280 --> 00:37:44,400
Speaker 1: and priests and virgins? How do you think a confidential

592
00:37:44,400 --> 00:37:47,640
Speaker 1: informant knows what the diapers are doing because he's a

593
00:37:47,680 --> 00:37:51,359
Speaker 1: bad guy there. It's just that simple. And I've had

594
00:37:51,400 --> 00:37:53,839
Speaker 1: to tell it to a jury like that many times.

595
00:37:53,880 --> 00:37:57,000
Speaker 1: But also sometimes you got to go to hell to

596
00:37:57,040 --> 00:37:59,680
Speaker 1: get your witness to put the devil in jail. And

597
00:38:00,000 --> 00:38:03,600
Speaker 1: you're not think one cop can bring down the Brian

598
00:38:03,680 --> 00:38:08,360
Speaker 1: Coburger case for the state, Mark Tate, I would recommend

599
00:38:08,360 --> 00:38:10,760
Speaker 1: not even putting this guy on the stand and making

600
00:38:10,760 --> 00:38:13,080
Speaker 1: my case without him. No, you can. But what I'm

601
00:38:13,120 --> 00:38:16,680
Speaker 1: saying is is that you one a prosecutor can know

602
00:38:16,760 --> 00:38:20,400
Speaker 1: they're going in with the disingenuous witness and explain it.

603
00:38:20,400 --> 00:38:23,720
Speaker 1: It's not the fact that the witness may be shifty.

604
00:38:23,800 --> 00:38:27,360
Speaker 1: The fact is that if the defense catches it by surprise,

605
00:38:27,760 --> 00:38:30,239
Speaker 1: it's the element of surprise. You never want the other

606
00:38:30,280 --> 00:38:32,520
Speaker 1: side to bring it out. You have to bring it out.

607
00:38:32,880 --> 00:38:36,480
Speaker 1: I just would try every way I could to avoid

608
00:38:36,680 --> 00:38:41,080
Speaker 1: him or her on the stand. Also, Caitlin Becker, we're

609
00:38:41,239 --> 00:38:46,520
Speaker 1: learning that the connection between Coburger and at least one

610
00:38:46,560 --> 00:38:50,839
Speaker 1: of the female victims possibly dates back to twenty twenty one.

611
00:38:50,880 --> 00:38:53,239
Speaker 1: Now this is what we knew up until now. Take

612
00:38:53,280 --> 00:38:55,800
Speaker 1: a listen to our cut three four eight. Our friends

613
00:38:55,920 --> 00:38:59,799
Speaker 1: at WPVI, we also learned today that the Coburger may

614
00:38:59,840 --> 00:39:03,239
Speaker 1: have even sent direct messages on Instagram to one are

615
00:39:03,239 --> 00:39:07,320
Speaker 1: the victims two weeks before the murders, with things like, hey,

616
00:39:07,320 --> 00:39:10,120
Speaker 1: how are you now? Weeks ago, investigators did reveal they

617
00:39:10,120 --> 00:39:12,719
Speaker 1: found a knife sheath near one of the bodies. They

618
00:39:12,760 --> 00:39:15,640
Speaker 1: recovers a man's DNA from that, and that was later

619
00:39:15,640 --> 00:39:18,799
Speaker 1: connected to Coburger through DNA found at his parents' home

620
00:39:18,800 --> 00:39:21,640
Speaker 1: and the Poconos, who was rated December twenty ninth, the

621
00:39:21,680 --> 00:39:25,960
Speaker 1: same day that the warrant was executed on his apartment itself.

622
00:39:26,000 --> 00:39:28,560
Speaker 1: The other thing is warrant does say. It says these

623
00:39:28,680 --> 00:39:32,320
Speaker 1: murders appeared to have been planned rather than a crime

624
00:39:32,520 --> 00:39:37,400
Speaker 1: that happened in a moment of conflict. Kaitlin Becker, investigative reporter,

625
00:39:37,480 --> 00:39:41,920
Speaker 1: dailymail dot Com, Hey how are you all right? But

626
00:39:42,160 --> 00:39:47,000
Speaker 1: now we're learning that his connection to at least one

627
00:39:47,000 --> 00:39:49,400
Speaker 1: of these victims may go back all the way to

628
00:39:49,480 --> 00:39:55,080
Speaker 1: twenty twenty one, before he even went to WSU, which

629
00:39:55,160 --> 00:39:59,200
Speaker 1: is about nine ten miles away from the murder scene.

630
00:40:00,080 --> 00:40:03,359
Speaker 1: They had to figure that out if in fact it's true. Kaitlinbecker,

631
00:40:04,000 --> 00:40:06,839
Speaker 1: through what we are now learning, our search warrants on

632
00:40:07,000 --> 00:40:14,319
Speaker 1: social media such as Google, Tender and staff. Also, we're

633
00:40:14,440 --> 00:40:19,080
Speaker 1: learning that the debit and credit cards of the victims

634
00:40:19,160 --> 00:40:23,320
Speaker 1: and the defendant were taken, I mean all of their records.

635
00:40:23,520 --> 00:40:25,880
Speaker 1: Were they at the same restaurant at the same time.

636
00:40:26,040 --> 00:40:29,000
Speaker 1: They're trying to make all of those connections, and these

637
00:40:29,080 --> 00:40:33,080
Speaker 1: warrants are dating back to at least twenty twenty one.

638
00:40:33,320 --> 00:40:35,160
Speaker 1: What do you make of it? You know, this makes

639
00:40:35,200 --> 00:40:38,279
Speaker 1: a lot of sense to me because we've been wondering

640
00:40:38,360 --> 00:40:41,640
Speaker 1: from the get go what the connection is between Koburger

641
00:40:41,719 --> 00:40:44,840
Speaker 1: and the victims, and of course how far back it goes.

642
00:40:44,880 --> 00:40:47,480
Speaker 1: And it really does seem like based on these search warrants,

643
00:40:47,480 --> 00:40:49,040
Speaker 1: and you mentioned a few of them, but there were

644
00:40:49,080 --> 00:40:53,000
Speaker 1: more than sixty that had been sent out, everything from

645
00:40:53,040 --> 00:40:56,640
Speaker 1: like you said, the bank accounts to eBay, to bunch

646
00:40:56,640 --> 00:41:00,160
Speaker 1: of dating apps all from Matt Group like Kinder, all

647
00:41:00,160 --> 00:41:04,120
Speaker 1: the metaproforms read it, Snapchat. All of these search warrants

648
00:41:04,120 --> 00:41:07,759
Speaker 1: have been sent out for the three female victims, and

649
00:41:08,160 --> 00:41:12,239
Speaker 1: for Coburger. It doesn't seem that even shape and name

650
00:41:13,480 --> 00:41:17,520
Speaker 1: was searched and as well within these documents, because it

651
00:41:17,560 --> 00:41:20,319
Speaker 1: looks like he just happened to have been really at

652
00:41:20,320 --> 00:41:22,120
Speaker 1: the wrong place at the wrong time, and that it

653
00:41:22,200 --> 00:41:25,239
Speaker 1: was the female victims that were at least one of

654
00:41:25,280 --> 00:41:29,240
Speaker 1: them the targets. So going back to January twenty twenty

655
00:41:29,239 --> 00:41:34,080
Speaker 1: one would really indicate to me that this had been planned,

656
00:41:34,120 --> 00:41:38,640
Speaker 1: obviously for far longer than we had even anticipated. My

657
00:41:38,719 --> 00:41:42,640
Speaker 1: biggest question now, Nancy, would be when de Sea decided

658
00:41:42,719 --> 00:41:47,439
Speaker 1: to apply to Washington State University? Is it before that

659
00:41:48,200 --> 00:41:52,040
Speaker 1: or after that, because it would be the most reasonable

660
00:41:52,120 --> 00:41:54,759
Speaker 1: to me that perhaps he had already applied, and he

661
00:41:54,800 --> 00:41:56,680
Speaker 1: had gone out and checked it out and been in

662
00:41:56,680 --> 00:41:59,440
Speaker 1: the area, and maybe that was the first time he

663
00:41:59,560 --> 00:42:03,279
Speaker 1: ran into I agree that is the most reasonable, But

664
00:42:03,520 --> 00:42:07,080
Speaker 1: somehow I don't know that reason applies to people like

665
00:42:07,120 --> 00:42:10,080
Speaker 1: Brian Coburger. Now that we know he actually kept a memento,

666
00:42:10,400 --> 00:42:14,200
Speaker 1: a memento of the murders, guys, we wait as the

667
00:42:14,320 --> 00:42:18,839
Speaker 1: evidence unfolds. Nancy Gray's crime story, signing off Goodbye Friend,