WEBVTT - Deutsch Examines Corporate Conscience

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<v Speaker 1>This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Masser and Bloomberg

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<v Speaker 1>Quick Takes Tim Stinovic on Bloomberg Radio. I'm thinking to

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<v Speaker 1>Tim about our earlier conversations at the Bloomberg Live Work

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<v Speaker 1>Shifting event. We're talking about what workers expect and are

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<v Speaker 1>increasingly demanding in this tight labor market. What they want

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<v Speaker 1>from employers, greater pay yup, flexibility, sense of purpose, respect,

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<v Speaker 1>a path to growth, and companies that have a clear

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<v Speaker 1>mission that they can align themselves with. So our next

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<v Speaker 1>guest to spend decades having conversations with companies and some

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<v Speaker 1>of the best known brands. You created a multibillion dollar

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<v Speaker 1>advertising and marketing and branding agency along the way. We

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<v Speaker 1>are delighted to have with us. Donnie Deutsch, former CEO

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<v Speaker 1>and chairman of Deutschink. Today he is host of the

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<v Speaker 1>on Brand podcast and he joins this via zoom in

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<v Speaker 1>New York City. Donny, good to have you here with us.

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<v Speaker 1>How are you great to be here, Carol, Great to

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<v Speaker 1>be thank thanks for having to really appreciate it. Well,

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<v Speaker 1>A lot to talk about. We want to get to

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<v Speaker 1>your podcast, but we also want to ask you about

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<v Speaker 1>having spent years talking to companies about their products, services,

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<v Speaker 1>they're branding. How did that conversation involve How is it

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<v Speaker 1>continue to evolve to today? Are you talking about as

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<v Speaker 1>far as corporate conscience? Yeah, well, corporate conscious and just

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<v Speaker 1>how they think about it, right, and you know they've

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<v Speaker 1>got to think about so many things when they put

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<v Speaker 1>something out there. Yeah, you know, Look, I'll work back

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<v Speaker 1>from corporate conscious. You know today this is price of entry,

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<v Speaker 1>particularly for young people. The company used. Companies used to

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<v Speaker 1>want to be agnostic because obviously you don't want to

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<v Speaker 1>alienate one consumer, you know, And all of a sudden,

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<v Speaker 1>all of a sudden, consumers are particularly eighteen to forty nine,

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<v Speaker 1>which is where the sweet spot is for most marketers,

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<v Speaker 1>are demanding where companies have to say about voting rights,

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<v Speaker 1>about racial equality. Uh, you're gonna see companies is gonna

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<v Speaker 1>be interesting in Florida now with the don't say gay

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<v Speaker 1>Uh and Disney has come out against it. Uh. And

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<v Speaker 1>you're seeing, well, as you guys talked about earlier, all

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<v Speaker 1>of the companies pulling at it or stopping to a

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<v Speaker 1>business Russia. This is what people, young people care about,

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<v Speaker 1>not only the product, but the conscience and the way

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<v Speaker 1>the company looks at the world so very often right now,

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<v Speaker 1>it's good business to have a good moral center. Do

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<v Speaker 1>investors care about it? You know, all this that that's

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<v Speaker 1>been put out there Donny about multiple stakeholders business roundtable

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<v Speaker 1>that in a few years ago. We hear it incessantly.

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<v Speaker 1>But I do wonder when it comes down to it,

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<v Speaker 1>what's more important bottom line or that you are saying

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<v Speaker 1>and doing the right things. What's the connects to an

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<v Speaker 1>into an investor you're looking for bottom line? You know?

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<v Speaker 1>But obviously every investor has their own decisions to make

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<v Speaker 1>in terms of the types of companies they do business with.

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<v Speaker 1>But it really comes down to I'm gonna go back again,

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<v Speaker 1>is if you have a company that is tone deaf,

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<v Speaker 1>and you have a company that won't stand up and

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<v Speaker 1>say we believe in voting rights, so we believe in

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<v Speaker 1>racial quality or certain things that are just kind of

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<v Speaker 1>just basic pillars of our democracy and fair play. Uh,

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<v Speaker 1>those businesses are not going to do well. So you know, I,

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<v Speaker 1>as you're looking at the company's balance sheet, also, it's

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<v Speaker 1>not gonna be on the balance sheet, but try and

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<v Speaker 1>look at what they stand for and how they stand

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<v Speaker 1>for it. And I think that's gonna be critical, Donnie.

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<v Speaker 1>What are some companies that are doing a really good

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<v Speaker 1>job of this? Right now? Who comes to mind for you? Um,

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<v Speaker 1>I'm gonna use Disney right now? Is it is example?

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<v Speaker 1>I mean this is not this is an issue that

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<v Speaker 1>is Uh. There are two sides. I don't know. There

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<v Speaker 1>are two sides too, as far as people having passionate

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<v Speaker 1>feelings about it that don't say gay was basically not

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<v Speaker 1>bringing up in school uh, any issues of gender, any

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<v Speaker 1>issues of lgbt q Uh. The other side of the

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<v Speaker 1>argument as well, it only goes up to third grade,

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<v Speaker 1>and do we want this being discussed with such young

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<v Speaker 1>children and you know, putting these issues on the table

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<v Speaker 1>for them in any degree. So you're gonna have, are

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<v Speaker 1>you arguments on both sides. But Disney, which is a

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<v Speaker 1>very progressive company, has a very big gay population within it.

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<v Speaker 1>As an employee, base uh took a stand and came

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<v Speaker 1>out and said something. You know, they were asking that,

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<v Speaker 1>so you can't hide anymore. But I think that the

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<v Speaker 1>company's obviously any company that is giving percentages of their

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<v Speaker 1>business is a way to certain uh charities filanthropic. So

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<v Speaker 1>it's not just issues, it's also being philanthropic. What about

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<v Speaker 1>when it comes to politics and how companies get involved

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<v Speaker 1>increasingly in politics in this damage. It's a little bit

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<v Speaker 1>of a pause after January six and you know the

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<v Speaker 1>riots of the Capitol, uh, in the insurrection. But it's

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<v Speaker 1>it's kind of come back that companies are playing in

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<v Speaker 1>politics again. Yeah they have. But by the way you're

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<v Speaker 1>you're gonna a company is gonna be asked, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>what do you think of the Black lives matters? They

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<v Speaker 1>can't hide, they can't hide it. It used to be, well,

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<v Speaker 1>we have no comment, and the no comment can backfire

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<v Speaker 1>on you. So they still You know, most companies, if

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<v Speaker 1>they had their way, they would not be venturing into

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<v Speaker 1>politics or venturing into you know, certainly they don't. Companies

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<v Speaker 1>don't for the most part, I want to get behind

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<v Speaker 1>the political candidate, although I did see you did see

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<v Speaker 1>exceptions with with none with companies, I would say coming

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<v Speaker 1>out against Trump, but very vocal uh choruses within the companies.

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<v Speaker 1>But you know, particularly you're a big company, you selling

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<v Speaker 1>a mass. Audience is a word they call it. There's

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<v Speaker 1>a reason they call it mass. It's a mass. And

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<v Speaker 1>the way it works why companies are so sensitive to

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<v Speaker 1>issues is here's what happens. Let's say a company runs

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<v Speaker 1>an AD and it's offending somebody because of the way

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<v Speaker 1>it representative person or something like that, and somebody writes

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<v Speaker 1>a letter to the CEO and says, MS, the CEO,

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<v Speaker 1>I've been buying new product in twenty seven years, as

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<v Speaker 1>has my family. I'm no longer can buy a product.

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<v Speaker 1>They send that note down to the chief marketing officer

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<v Speaker 1>with a letter, this is just one consumer. This is

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<v Speaker 1>please take care of because no no CEO wants to

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<v Speaker 1>see even one person. And you can always buy media

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<v Speaker 1>in different places. And the CMO, she's a note from

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<v Speaker 1>the CEO. This say is please take care of it.

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<v Speaker 1>That means like do something to let's get off this

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<v Speaker 1>network or let's get off this product. And so there's

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<v Speaker 1>a lot of times there is I don't want to nurism,

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<v Speaker 1>but there's a lot of a lot of fighting consumers pencils.

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<v Speaker 1>Donny said, tight, we're gonna come back and continue the conversation.

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<v Speaker 1>Donnie Deutsch is with us. He's host of Von Brand

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<v Speaker 1>with Donnie Deutch. Will continue in just a moment. I

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<v Speaker 1>want to get right back to Donnie Deutsche. He's the

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<v Speaker 1>host of on brand with Donnie Deutsche the podcast Donni

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<v Speaker 1>great to have you back with us on your podcast,

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<v Speaker 1>You You Go Everywhere. Your guests have included Michael J. Fox,

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<v Speaker 1>Steve Madden, former Governor Chris Christie, You Do Politics Michael Cohen. Um.

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<v Speaker 1>One thing that I was thinking about when owner planning

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<v Speaker 1>call today is is the public opinion polls of President

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<v Speaker 1>Joe Biden, which are not looking great right now. According

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<v Speaker 1>to Real Clear Politics, forty two point three percent when

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<v Speaker 1>it comes to job approval rating, so not the lowest

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<v Speaker 1>in his presidency, but um just off of the lowest.

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<v Speaker 1>And it made me think of an article that Are

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<v Speaker 1>Editor in chief Emeritus Matthew Winkler wrote UH Back for

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<v Speaker 1>Bloomberg Opinion in December, and he took different metrics UH

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<v Speaker 1>about how the economy has been doing GDP, profit growth,

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<v Speaker 1>SMP five performance, non farm payrolls, consumer credit, and more,

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<v Speaker 1>and he came to the conclusion that America's economy improved

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<v Speaker 1>more in Joe Biden's first twelve months than any president

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<v Speaker 1>during the past fifty years, notwithstanding the contrary media narrative

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<v Speaker 1>contributing to dour public opinion. From a branding perspective, I

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<v Speaker 1>wanted to get your take on this, because the unemployment

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<v Speaker 1>rates sub four percent right now, the American consumer is

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<v Speaker 1>doing pretty well. Yes, inflation is really hot right now.

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<v Speaker 1>But but why are the president's job approval ratings so low?

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<v Speaker 1>Great question, And uh, it's a lot of what we

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<v Speaker 1>talk on I'm on One and Joe all the time

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<v Speaker 1>on MSNBC. It's a lot what we talk about their podcast.

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<v Speaker 1>It's basically a messaging. It's you know, I can give

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<v Speaker 1>an arty, I can sit here. You just rattled off

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<v Speaker 1>that the economy obviously, say you know, the last couple

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<v Speaker 1>of weeks with Ukraine, and obviously there's the little fear

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<v Speaker 1>with inflation. But as far as the first year Rory,

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<v Speaker 1>I think it's a couple of things. I think Joe

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<v Speaker 1>Biden himself does not come across as firmly in control.

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<v Speaker 1>Joe Biden is a good man and I support him

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<v Speaker 1>for president, but there's something in his delivery that he

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<v Speaker 1>doesn't feel strong, and I think that translates. It's hard

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<v Speaker 1>to see that in polls, but I think it's partially

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<v Speaker 1>his age shows. And I don't mean to make an

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<v Speaker 1>ages comment saying when he comes across he doesn't now

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<v Speaker 1>he's looked very firm and very in control with what's

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<v Speaker 1>going on in Ukraine. But up until this point, particularly

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<v Speaker 1>with the Afghanistan, that really really hurt him. And also

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<v Speaker 1>the Democrats there's a lot of them to far progress,

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<v Speaker 1>and there's a lot of woke issues that are constantly discussed,

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<v Speaker 1>and I think that that comes up and hurts him

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<v Speaker 1>because most of the country is not living in a

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<v Speaker 1>super woke universe, if you will, and so I think

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<v Speaker 1>all those things contribute to it, but I think most

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<v Speaker 1>of it is the messenger himself. I don't think he

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<v Speaker 1>has come across inspirational. And I think there's the there's

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<v Speaker 1>the substance, and there's the sizzle, and the sizzle has

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<v Speaker 1>not been there all right. So now it makes me

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<v Speaker 1>wonder to go back to like the Kennedy Nixon debate,

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<v Speaker 1>like take media out of the picture. How much that

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<v Speaker 1>you know, for better or worse, we're in media. We're

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<v Speaker 1>all in social, linear, you name it and all it's

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<v Speaker 1>uh different forms. Um, But if you take media out

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<v Speaker 1>of the picture, how might that impact political messaging and

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<v Speaker 1>how we view Yeah, I mean it would we'd have

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<v Speaker 1>to go back to another universe, you know, like and

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<v Speaker 1>it's hard. You know, even I know we can, but

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<v Speaker 1>what do you think about, like how much that is skewing?

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<v Speaker 1>We talked about it, right, messaging, how much it can

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<v Speaker 1>be skewed for better or worse, for wrong or right.

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<v Speaker 1>It's every thing, it's and and But the difference now

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<v Speaker 1>is that the media used to be the media used

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<v Speaker 1>to be newspapers and and six o'clock people literally would

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<v Speaker 1>get their news. They get it from the morning newspaper

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<v Speaker 1>and they're six o'clock evening news and the look and

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<v Speaker 1>that was it. And the big problem now in media

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<v Speaker 1>is not the media itself, is that everybody gets bespoke

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<v Speaker 1>media and there's no accountability on social media. And whereas

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<v Speaker 1>big half the people in the world get their news

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<v Speaker 1>from Facebook now and Facebook, if I wanted to run

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<v Speaker 1>an ad for bleach detergent, I would have to go

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<v Speaker 1>more through more stringent, uh you know, regulations to get

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<v Speaker 1>it on ABC or to get it on Bloomberg. That

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<v Speaker 1>I would have to get it to put it on

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<v Speaker 1>Facebook or so many other places. So the problem is

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<v Speaker 1>not the proliferation of news itself. The problem is the

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<v Speaker 1>proliferation of inaccurate news and false news and in accountability

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<v Speaker 1>in the social media spaces and we have not figured

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<v Speaker 1>that out yet. So Donnie, okay, we haven't figured it out.

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<v Speaker 1>Do we need to rethink that and regulate them more?

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<v Speaker 1>I mean it is I think you need to look

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<v Speaker 1>at their algoram And this is something that's discussed abot

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<v Speaker 1>because it's a slippery slope. You know, who gets to

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<v Speaker 1>play Judge and Jerry and whatnot. But another hand, how

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<v Speaker 1>do you have Facebook, for instance, which we know is

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<v Speaker 1>putting out so many falsehoods about the pandemic and other

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<v Speaker 1>things and whatnot. And also I know there's not very

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<v Speaker 1>popular with Fox News does things that are they're not

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<v Speaker 1>always accountable and stand behind. I don't mean to sound

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<v Speaker 1>like a liberal lefty, but we just it's very scuted it.

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<v Speaker 1>Of course, I'm sure MS does some things. On the

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<v Speaker 1>other side, the problem is the slippery slope thing, particularly

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<v Speaker 1>on when we talk about the Internet, and the answer

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<v Speaker 1>is algorithms, because the algorithms are set up that the

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<v Speaker 1>more you know, uh, passionate and crazy the response to

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<v Speaker 1>the more engagement whatnot, which leads to very polarized messages

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<v Speaker 1>on both sides. So we so basically we need to

0:10:50.480 --> 0:10:53.360
<v Speaker 1>look at the algorithms of these big social media giants

0:10:53.440 --> 0:10:55.600
<v Speaker 1>and make sure that there there's something in there that's

0:10:55.640 --> 0:10:58.760
<v Speaker 1>not guaranteed. Okay, we are trying to put on their

0:10:58.840 --> 0:11:01.920
<v Speaker 1>stuff that is going to be very, very controversial. It

0:11:02.000 --> 0:11:06.160
<v Speaker 1>was controversial breeds engagement. Engagement meets eyeballs. Eyeballs needs money

0:11:06.280 --> 0:11:08.440
<v Speaker 1>to be to be fair. And Facebook has come out

0:11:08.480 --> 0:11:10.559
<v Speaker 1>and talked about developing a strategy that they've had in

0:11:10.720 --> 0:11:13.640
<v Speaker 1>years to monitor and remove content that violates his policies.

0:11:13.640 --> 0:11:16.120
<v Speaker 1>They're working on it. We know it's not perfect, but

0:11:16.400 --> 0:11:18.839
<v Speaker 1>just to be fair and and donnia you know, I

0:11:18.880 --> 0:11:20.880
<v Speaker 1>gotta ask because this is one thing that you know,

0:11:20.960 --> 0:11:24.080
<v Speaker 1>Democrats and Republicans really seem to agree on, and they

0:11:24.120 --> 0:11:26.160
<v Speaker 1>don't agree on the methods, but they want to quote

0:11:26.200 --> 0:11:28.480
<v Speaker 1>unquote rain in social media, rain in the tech companies.

0:11:28.520 --> 0:11:30.880
<v Speaker 1>And I'm wondering if if you think that there needs

0:11:30.960 --> 0:11:35.320
<v Speaker 1>to be stricter regulatory environment for social media, something needs

0:11:35.320 --> 0:11:37.440
<v Speaker 1>to be done. This is you You can have half

0:11:37.520 --> 0:11:40.280
<v Speaker 1>the world getting news from an outlet. And I'm not

0:11:40.400 --> 0:11:42.360
<v Speaker 1>just picking on Facebook, but they seem to be the

0:11:42.400 --> 0:11:44.920
<v Speaker 1>one of most people get the news where there is

0:11:45.080 --> 0:11:48.360
<v Speaker 1>just not accountability for fact. You can't it doesn't you know,

0:11:48.440 --> 0:11:50.439
<v Speaker 1>once we lose truth. Truth is one of the pillars

0:11:50.480 --> 0:11:53.920
<v Speaker 1>of democracy and we need truth, we need facts. And

0:11:54.600 --> 0:11:58.040
<v Speaker 1>right now people get media bespoke and people get the

0:11:58.120 --> 0:12:00.319
<v Speaker 1>media the way they want it and if they're not

0:12:00.400 --> 0:12:02.520
<v Speaker 1>hearing what they want, they'll find another place to get it.

0:12:03.320 --> 0:12:07.080
<v Speaker 1>So we've over democratized media, you know, democratization of things,

0:12:07.120 --> 0:12:09.839
<v Speaker 1>and we put too many, too much power in the

0:12:09.960 --> 0:12:12.040
<v Speaker 1>hands of the you know, the smartphone. I always say

0:12:12.160 --> 0:12:13.920
<v Speaker 1>is in certain ways of the devil. I mean there's

0:12:14.240 --> 0:12:20.120
<v Speaker 1>something about when there's too much, too much democratization of

0:12:20.240 --> 0:12:23.480
<v Speaker 1>something like the truth, and that it becomes problematic. Yeah,

0:12:23.520 --> 0:12:27.839
<v Speaker 1>it's kind of ironic, right, this democratization. Um. Donny fun

0:12:27.920 --> 0:12:29.640
<v Speaker 1>to spend some time with you. Thank you so much.

0:12:29.720 --> 0:12:31.920
<v Speaker 1>We really appreciate. Donny dot H is former CEO and

0:12:32.000 --> 0:12:34.800
<v Speaker 1>chairman of Deutchink and of course, host of the on

0:12:34.960 --> 0:12:38.400
<v Speaker 1>Brand podcast. Joining us via zoom in New York City,