Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Masser and Bloomberg
Speaker 1: Quick Takes Tim Stinovic on Bloomberg Radio. I'm thinking to
Speaker 1: Tim about our earlier conversations at the Bloomberg Live Work
Speaker 1: Shifting event. We're talking about what workers expect and are
Speaker 1: increasingly demanding in this tight labor market. What they want
Speaker 1: from employers, greater pay yup, flexibility, sense of purpose, respect,
Speaker 1: a path to growth, and companies that have a clear
Speaker 1: mission that they can align themselves with. So our next
Speaker 1: guest to spend decades having conversations with companies and some
Speaker 1: of the best known brands. You created a multibillion dollar
Speaker 1: advertising and marketing and branding agency along the way. We
Speaker 1: are delighted to have with us. Donnie Deutsch, former CEO
Speaker 1: and chairman of Deutschink. Today he is host of the
Speaker 1: on Brand podcast and he joins this via zoom in
Speaker 1: New York City. Donny, good to have you here with us.
Speaker 1: How are you great to be here, Carol, Great to
Speaker 1: be thank thanks for having to really appreciate it. Well,
Speaker 1: A lot to talk about. We want to get to
Speaker 1: your podcast, but we also want to ask you about
Speaker 1: having spent years talking to companies about their products, services,
Speaker 1: they're branding. How did that conversation involve How is it
Speaker 1: continue to evolve to today? Are you talking about as
Speaker 1: far as corporate conscience? Yeah, well, corporate conscious and just
Speaker 1: how they think about it, right, and you know they've
Speaker 1: got to think about so many things when they put
Speaker 1: something out there. Yeah, you know, Look, I'll work back
Speaker 1: from corporate conscious. You know today this is price of entry,
Speaker 1: particularly for young people. The company used. Companies used to
Speaker 1: want to be agnostic because obviously you don't want to
Speaker 1: alienate one consumer, you know, And all of a sudden,
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, consumers are particularly eighteen to forty nine,
Speaker 1: which is where the sweet spot is for most marketers,
Speaker 1: are demanding where companies have to say about voting rights,
Speaker 1: about racial equality. Uh, you're gonna see companies is gonna
Speaker 1: be interesting in Florida now with the don't say gay
Speaker 1: Uh and Disney has come out against it. Uh. And
Speaker 1: you're seeing, well, as you guys talked about earlier, all
Speaker 1: of the companies pulling at it or stopping to a
Speaker 1: business Russia. This is what people, young people care about,
Speaker 1: not only the product, but the conscience and the way
Speaker 1: the company looks at the world so very often right now,
Speaker 1: it's good business to have a good moral center. Do
Speaker 1: investors care about it? You know, all this that that's
Speaker 1: been put out there Donny about multiple stakeholders business roundtable
Speaker 1: that in a few years ago. We hear it incessantly.
Speaker 1: But I do wonder when it comes down to it,
Speaker 1: what's more important bottom line or that you are saying
Speaker 1: and doing the right things. What's the connects to an
Speaker 1: into an investor you're looking for bottom line? You know?
Speaker 1: But obviously every investor has their own decisions to make
Speaker 1: in terms of the types of companies they do business with.
Speaker 1: But it really comes down to I'm gonna go back again,
Speaker 1: is if you have a company that is tone deaf,
Speaker 1: and you have a company that won't stand up and
Speaker 1: say we believe in voting rights, so we believe in
Speaker 1: racial quality or certain things that are just kind of
Speaker 1: just basic pillars of our democracy and fair play. Uh,
Speaker 1: those businesses are not going to do well. So you know, I,
Speaker 1: as you're looking at the company's balance sheet, also, it's
Speaker 1: not gonna be on the balance sheet, but try and
Speaker 1: look at what they stand for and how they stand
Speaker 1: for it. And I think that's gonna be critical, Donnie.
Speaker 1: What are some companies that are doing a really good
Speaker 1: job of this? Right now? Who comes to mind for you? Um,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna use Disney right now? Is it is example?
Speaker 1: I mean this is not this is an issue that
Speaker 1: is Uh. There are two sides. I don't know. There
Speaker 1: are two sides too, as far as people having passionate
Speaker 1: feelings about it that don't say gay was basically not
Speaker 1: bringing up in school uh, any issues of gender, any
Speaker 1: issues of lgbt q Uh. The other side of the
Speaker 1: argument as well, it only goes up to third grade,
Speaker 1: and do we want this being discussed with such young
Speaker 1: children and you know, putting these issues on the table
Speaker 1: for them in any degree. So you're gonna have, are
Speaker 1: you arguments on both sides. But Disney, which is a
Speaker 1: very progressive company, has a very big gay population within it.
Speaker 1: As an employee, base uh took a stand and came
Speaker 1: out and said something. You know, they were asking that,
Speaker 1: so you can't hide anymore. But I think that the
Speaker 1: company's obviously any company that is giving percentages of their
Speaker 1: business is a way to certain uh charities filanthropic. So
Speaker 1: it's not just issues, it's also being philanthropic. What about
Speaker 1: when it comes to politics and how companies get involved
Speaker 1: increasingly in politics in this damage. It's a little bit
Speaker 1: of a pause after January six and you know the
Speaker 1: riots of the Capitol, uh, in the insurrection. But it's
Speaker 1: it's kind of come back that companies are playing in
Speaker 1: politics again. Yeah they have. But by the way you're
Speaker 1: you're gonna a company is gonna be asked, you know,
Speaker 1: what do you think of the Black lives matters? They
Speaker 1: can't hide, they can't hide it. It used to be, well,
Speaker 1: we have no comment, and the no comment can backfire
Speaker 1: on you. So they still You know, most companies, if
Speaker 1: they had their way, they would not be venturing into
Speaker 1: politics or venturing into you know, certainly they don't. Companies
Speaker 1: don't for the most part, I want to get behind
Speaker 1: the political candidate, although I did see you did see
Speaker 1: exceptions with with none with companies, I would say coming
Speaker 1: out against Trump, but very vocal uh choruses within the companies.
Speaker 1: But you know, particularly you're a big company, you selling
Speaker 1: a mass. Audience is a word they call it. There's
Speaker 1: a reason they call it mass. It's a mass. And
Speaker 1: the way it works why companies are so sensitive to
Speaker 1: issues is here's what happens. Let's say a company runs
Speaker 1: an AD and it's offending somebody because of the way
Speaker 1: it representative person or something like that, and somebody writes
Speaker 1: a letter to the CEO and says, MS, the CEO,
Speaker 1: I've been buying new product in twenty seven years, as
Speaker 1: has my family. I'm no longer can buy a product.
Speaker 1: They send that note down to the chief marketing officer
Speaker 1: with a letter, this is just one consumer. This is
Speaker 1: please take care of because no no CEO wants to
Speaker 1: see even one person. And you can always buy media
Speaker 1: in different places. And the CMO, she's a note from
Speaker 1: the CEO. This say is please take care of it.
Speaker 1: That means like do something to let's get off this
Speaker 1: network or let's get off this product. And so there's
Speaker 1: a lot of times there is I don't want to nurism,
Speaker 1: but there's a lot of a lot of fighting consumers pencils.
Speaker 1: Donny said, tight, we're gonna come back and continue the conversation.
Speaker 1: Donnie Deutsch is with us. He's host of Von Brand
Speaker 1: with Donnie Deutch. Will continue in just a moment. I
Speaker 1: want to get right back to Donnie Deutsche. He's the
Speaker 1: host of on brand with Donnie Deutsche the podcast Donni
Speaker 1: great to have you back with us on your podcast,
Speaker 1: You You Go Everywhere. Your guests have included Michael J. Fox,
Speaker 1: Steve Madden, former Governor Chris Christie, You Do Politics Michael Cohen. Um.
Speaker 1: One thing that I was thinking about when owner planning
Speaker 1: call today is is the public opinion polls of President
Speaker 1: Joe Biden, which are not looking great right now. According
Speaker 1: to Real Clear Politics, forty two point three percent when
Speaker 1: it comes to job approval rating, so not the lowest
Speaker 1: in his presidency, but um just off of the lowest.
Speaker 1: And it made me think of an article that Are
Speaker 1: Editor in chief Emeritus Matthew Winkler wrote UH Back for
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Opinion in December, and he took different metrics UH
Speaker 1: about how the economy has been doing GDP, profit growth,
Speaker 1: SMP five performance, non farm payrolls, consumer credit, and more,
Speaker 1: and he came to the conclusion that America's economy improved
Speaker 1: more in Joe Biden's first twelve months than any president
Speaker 1: during the past fifty years, notwithstanding the contrary media narrative
Speaker 1: contributing to dour public opinion. From a branding perspective, I
Speaker 1: wanted to get your take on this, because the unemployment
Speaker 1: rates sub four percent right now, the American consumer is
Speaker 1: doing pretty well. Yes, inflation is really hot right now.
Speaker 1: But but why are the president's job approval ratings so low?
Speaker 1: Great question, And uh, it's a lot of what we
Speaker 1: talk on I'm on One and Joe all the time
Speaker 1: on MSNBC. It's a lot what we talk about their podcast.
Speaker 1: It's basically a messaging. It's you know, I can give
Speaker 1: an arty, I can sit here. You just rattled off
Speaker 1: that the economy obviously, say you know, the last couple
Speaker 1: of weeks with Ukraine, and obviously there's the little fear
Speaker 1: with inflation. But as far as the first year Rory,
Speaker 1: I think it's a couple of things. I think Joe
Speaker 1: Biden himself does not come across as firmly in control.
Speaker 1: Joe Biden is a good man and I support him
Speaker 1: for president, but there's something in his delivery that he
Speaker 1: doesn't feel strong, and I think that translates. It's hard
Speaker 1: to see that in polls, but I think it's partially
Speaker 1: his age shows. And I don't mean to make an
Speaker 1: ages comment saying when he comes across he doesn't now
Speaker 1: he's looked very firm and very in control with what's
Speaker 1: going on in Ukraine. But up until this point, particularly
Speaker 1: with the Afghanistan, that really really hurt him. And also
Speaker 1: the Democrats there's a lot of them to far progress,
Speaker 1: and there's a lot of woke issues that are constantly discussed,
Speaker 1: and I think that that comes up and hurts him
Speaker 1: because most of the country is not living in a
Speaker 1: super woke universe, if you will, and so I think
Speaker 1: all those things contribute to it, but I think most
Speaker 1: of it is the messenger himself. I don't think he
Speaker 1: has come across inspirational. And I think there's the there's
Speaker 1: the substance, and there's the sizzle, and the sizzle has
Speaker 1: not been there all right. So now it makes me
Speaker 1: wonder to go back to like the Kennedy Nixon debate,
Speaker 1: like take media out of the picture. How much that
Speaker 1: you know, for better or worse, we're in media. We're
Speaker 1: all in social, linear, you name it and all it's
Speaker 1: uh different forms. Um, But if you take media out
Speaker 1: of the picture, how might that impact political messaging and
Speaker 1: how we view Yeah, I mean it would we'd have
Speaker 1: to go back to another universe, you know, like and
Speaker 1: it's hard. You know, even I know we can, but
Speaker 1: what do you think about, like how much that is skewing?
Speaker 1: We talked about it, right, messaging, how much it can
Speaker 1: be skewed for better or worse, for wrong or right.
Speaker 1: It's every thing, it's and and But the difference now
Speaker 1: is that the media used to be the media used
Speaker 1: to be newspapers and and six o'clock people literally would
Speaker 1: get their news. They get it from the morning newspaper
Speaker 1: and they're six o'clock evening news and the look and
Speaker 1: that was it. And the big problem now in media
Speaker 1: is not the media itself, is that everybody gets bespoke
Speaker 1: media and there's no accountability on social media. And whereas
Speaker 1: big half the people in the world get their news
Speaker 1: from Facebook now and Facebook, if I wanted to run
Speaker 1: an ad for bleach detergent, I would have to go
Speaker 1: more through more stringent, uh you know, regulations to get
Speaker 1: it on ABC or to get it on Bloomberg. That
Speaker 1: I would have to get it to put it on
Speaker 1: Facebook or so many other places. So the problem is
Speaker 1: not the proliferation of news itself. The problem is the
Speaker 1: proliferation of inaccurate news and false news and in accountability
Speaker 1: in the social media spaces and we have not figured
Speaker 1: that out yet. So Donnie, okay, we haven't figured it out.
Speaker 1: Do we need to rethink that and regulate them more?
Speaker 1: I mean it is I think you need to look
Speaker 1: at their algoram And this is something that's discussed abot
Speaker 1: because it's a slippery slope. You know, who gets to
Speaker 1: play Judge and Jerry and whatnot. But another hand, how
Speaker 1: do you have Facebook, for instance, which we know is
Speaker 1: putting out so many falsehoods about the pandemic and other
Speaker 1: things and whatnot. And also I know there's not very
Speaker 1: popular with Fox News does things that are they're not
Speaker 1: always accountable and stand behind. I don't mean to sound
Speaker 1: like a liberal lefty, but we just it's very scuted it.
Speaker 1: Of course, I'm sure MS does some things. On the
Speaker 1: other side, the problem is the slippery slope thing, particularly
Speaker 1: on when we talk about the Internet, and the answer
Speaker 1: is algorithms, because the algorithms are set up that the
Speaker 1: more you know, uh, passionate and crazy the response to
Speaker 1: the more engagement whatnot, which leads to very polarized messages
Speaker 1: on both sides. So we so basically we need to
Speaker 1: look at the algorithms of these big social media giants
Speaker 1: and make sure that there there's something in there that's
Speaker 1: not guaranteed. Okay, we are trying to put on their
Speaker 1: stuff that is going to be very, very controversial. It
Speaker 1: was controversial breeds engagement. Engagement meets eyeballs. Eyeballs needs money
Speaker 1: to be to be fair. And Facebook has come out
Speaker 1: and talked about developing a strategy that they've had in
Speaker 1: years to monitor and remove content that violates his policies.
Speaker 1: They're working on it. We know it's not perfect, but
Speaker 1: just to be fair and and donnia you know, I
Speaker 1: gotta ask because this is one thing that you know,
Speaker 1: Democrats and Republicans really seem to agree on, and they
Speaker 1: don't agree on the methods, but they want to quote
Speaker 1: unquote rain in social media, rain in the tech companies.
Speaker 1: And I'm wondering if if you think that there needs
Speaker 1: to be stricter regulatory environment for social media, something needs
Speaker 1: to be done. This is you You can have half
Speaker 1: the world getting news from an outlet. And I'm not
Speaker 1: just picking on Facebook, but they seem to be the
Speaker 1: one of most people get the news where there is
Speaker 1: just not accountability for fact. You can't it doesn't you know,
Speaker 1: once we lose truth. Truth is one of the pillars
Speaker 1: of democracy and we need truth, we need facts. And
Speaker 1: right now people get media bespoke and people get the
Speaker 1: media the way they want it and if they're not
Speaker 1: hearing what they want, they'll find another place to get it.
Speaker 1: So we've over democratized media, you know, democratization of things,
Speaker 1: and we put too many, too much power in the
Speaker 1: hands of the you know, the smartphone. I always say
Speaker 1: is in certain ways of the devil. I mean there's
Speaker 1: something about when there's too much, too much democratization of
Speaker 1: something like the truth, and that it becomes problematic. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's kind of ironic, right, this democratization. Um. Donny fun
Speaker 1: to spend some time with you. Thank you so much.
Speaker 1: We really appreciate. Donny dot H is former CEO and
Speaker 1: chairman of Deutchink and of course, host of the on
Speaker 1: Brand podcast. Joining us via zoom in New York City,