1 00:00:05,960 --> 00:00:08,319 Speaker 1: Everyone, Welcome to Bloomberg's where it's real to here from 2 00:00:08,320 --> 00:00:10,600 Speaker 1: Grant Hill in just a few minutes. He's got a 3 00:00:10,640 --> 00:00:13,800 Speaker 1: new book out. It's called Game. Speaking of Game, let's 4 00:00:13,840 --> 00:00:18,040 Speaker 1: talk about the state of pro basketball. Vanessa Perdomo. We've 5 00:00:18,040 --> 00:00:19,799 Speaker 1: been looking at the NBA the w n b A 6 00:00:19,880 --> 00:00:25,400 Speaker 1: two really interesting seasons, one finishing up, one underway. The 7 00:00:25,520 --> 00:00:30,000 Speaker 1: n b A ratings are up, but kind of like 8 00:00:30,040 --> 00:00:32,479 Speaker 1: we're still trying to figure out what this season really means. Right, 9 00:00:32,479 --> 00:00:35,080 Speaker 1: we don't know what that really means yet. Right, ratings 10 00:00:35,080 --> 00:00:38,640 Speaker 1: are up from one, but like we were still dealing 11 00:00:38,640 --> 00:00:42,360 Speaker 1: with the COVID protocols, still dealing with less fans of 12 00:00:42,400 --> 00:00:44,440 Speaker 1: the games, still dealing with all of that. This is 13 00:00:44,440 --> 00:00:46,360 Speaker 1: the first season where things are back on track. This 14 00:00:46,440 --> 00:00:48,720 Speaker 1: is the first time they played in June since two 15 00:00:48,760 --> 00:00:52,000 Speaker 1: thousand and nineteen, you know, the playoffs, so it's the 16 00:00:52,880 --> 00:00:55,600 Speaker 1: you know, audience is there obviously, and it's great to 17 00:00:55,640 --> 00:00:57,640 Speaker 1: see the numbers go up, but what does it mean 18 00:00:57,720 --> 00:01:00,480 Speaker 1: exactly as far as growth of the game overall in 19 00:01:00,520 --> 00:01:02,520 Speaker 1: the last ten years, it feels like we're seeing a 20 00:01:02,560 --> 00:01:06,800 Speaker 1: game on both sides that is in transition. In many ways. 21 00:01:06,840 --> 00:01:10,760 Speaker 1: You've got stars. Everybody loves Lebron, but Lebron probably only 22 00:01:10,800 --> 00:01:14,319 Speaker 1: has you know, one too, maybe three more seasons left. 23 00:01:14,319 --> 00:01:17,360 Speaker 1: That seems like an outside bet to to think he's 24 00:01:17,360 --> 00:01:19,800 Speaker 1: going to be around for that long. Steph Curry still 25 00:01:19,800 --> 00:01:22,800 Speaker 1: going strong. Um, but you do have this new generation 26 00:01:22,840 --> 00:01:26,200 Speaker 1: of players coming up that's bringing some new energy. If 27 00:01:26,200 --> 00:01:29,199 Speaker 1: you think historically about the NBA, it does go through 28 00:01:29,440 --> 00:01:32,840 Speaker 1: these moments of inflection. Brand Hill, who we're going to 29 00:01:32,920 --> 00:01:34,920 Speaker 1: hear from later on, he was part of one of 30 00:01:34,920 --> 00:01:38,560 Speaker 1: those as well. I'm excited for the for the new stars, 31 00:01:38,600 --> 00:01:41,000 Speaker 1: the Jaws and the Anthony Edwards that you know, to 32 00:01:41,160 --> 00:01:44,600 Speaker 1: really sort of get their due and start to define 33 00:01:44,640 --> 00:01:47,320 Speaker 1: their own league, right because right now they're not thought 34 00:01:47,360 --> 00:01:49,960 Speaker 1: of as the superstars of the league, but they really 35 00:01:50,000 --> 00:01:53,840 Speaker 1: are already superstars when you consider how well they are 36 00:01:54,000 --> 00:01:57,760 Speaker 1: branding themselves, how how big of fans them they really 37 00:01:57,800 --> 00:02:00,600 Speaker 1: already have. And I think it's really exciting that there's 38 00:02:00,680 --> 00:02:03,840 Speaker 1: there hasn't been a sort of oh here's the long 39 00:02:03,960 --> 00:02:06,880 Speaker 1: but Tom throw to the next generation like they're already there. 40 00:02:06,880 --> 00:02:10,800 Speaker 1: They're already beating there. Jason Tatum and you know, sweeping 41 00:02:11,160 --> 00:02:14,480 Speaker 1: KD and the Nets. You know, so it's already there 42 00:02:14,600 --> 00:02:16,760 Speaker 1: and it's really exciting. And I think that that's what 43 00:02:16,800 --> 00:02:18,880 Speaker 1: the league was built on, right. The league was saved 44 00:02:18,880 --> 00:02:22,320 Speaker 1: by Magic and Bird because of their stardom, because of 45 00:02:22,360 --> 00:02:24,919 Speaker 1: their rivalry. So and and then against they've buy MJ 46 00:02:25,040 --> 00:02:27,800 Speaker 1: and you said Grant Hill and that era. So it's 47 00:02:28,160 --> 00:02:30,840 Speaker 1: it's always about the superstars of the league. And I 48 00:02:30,880 --> 00:02:36,120 Speaker 1: think there's always this worry Lebron's gonna leave eventually, you know, 49 00:02:36,160 --> 00:02:37,960 Speaker 1: I mean, he can't play here. You know, he says 50 00:02:37,960 --> 00:02:41,480 Speaker 1: he's gonna play until whenever he's you know, his son 51 00:02:41,520 --> 00:02:43,200 Speaker 1: comes in the league, or whenever he can, which I 52 00:02:43,240 --> 00:02:45,600 Speaker 1: do believe he can because even though I didn't make 53 00:02:45,600 --> 00:02:49,040 Speaker 1: the playoffs, s he's still playing great. But you know, 54 00:02:49,320 --> 00:02:52,839 Speaker 1: at least there wasn't some sort of lull, because that's 55 00:02:52,840 --> 00:02:55,639 Speaker 1: what the NBA doesn't want, right, you can't have that. 56 00:02:55,720 --> 00:02:58,040 Speaker 1: And the the great thing about the people you're talking about, 57 00:02:58,160 --> 00:03:02,000 Speaker 1: John and Anthony Edwards, they're coming for um like small 58 00:03:02,040 --> 00:03:04,680 Speaker 1: markets right there there, in these small market teams that 59 00:03:05,360 --> 00:03:08,040 Speaker 1: it's it's great to see that. And you see Jana 60 00:03:08,120 --> 00:03:11,520 Speaker 1: staying at Milwaukee, which is amazing. So it's not just 61 00:03:11,680 --> 00:03:14,959 Speaker 1: the Lakers, who are you know, doing great things or 62 00:03:15,080 --> 00:03:18,080 Speaker 1: just the warriors, you know. So that's the other exciting 63 00:03:18,080 --> 00:03:20,000 Speaker 1: part of it. And meanwhile, I feel like there's a 64 00:03:20,040 --> 00:03:23,200 Speaker 1: lot of economic tumult to some extent, but also a 65 00:03:23,240 --> 00:03:26,000 Speaker 1: lot of opportunity on the women's side. We were talking 66 00:03:26,040 --> 00:03:28,639 Speaker 1: before we came on air about an interview cat Engelbert, 67 00:03:28,680 --> 00:03:32,679 Speaker 1: the commissioner, gave just a few weeks ago about potential 68 00:03:32,840 --> 00:03:35,720 Speaker 1: expansion the w n b A. It feels like it's 69 00:03:35,720 --> 00:03:39,400 Speaker 1: at a critical moment twenty five years in. There's a 70 00:03:39,440 --> 00:03:43,040 Speaker 1: lot of expectation that they're finally going to turn the corner, 71 00:03:44,080 --> 00:03:46,720 Speaker 1: finally about to get over that hump. But it's this 72 00:03:46,960 --> 00:03:51,000 Speaker 1: weird hump that years the NBA they were, you know, 73 00:03:51,080 --> 00:03:54,480 Speaker 1: about to be bankrupt. So they're actually doing great. You know, 74 00:03:54,520 --> 00:03:57,960 Speaker 1: they have the seventy five million dollars of capital fundraising 75 00:03:58,000 --> 00:04:01,320 Speaker 1: that they did this year, and it looks like they're 76 00:04:02,080 --> 00:04:05,200 Speaker 1: right on the precipice of expanding the league, which is 77 00:04:05,240 --> 00:04:07,680 Speaker 1: something that people have been wanting for a long time. 78 00:04:07,680 --> 00:04:09,760 Speaker 1: You haven't had a new team since two thousand and 79 00:04:09,800 --> 00:04:12,560 Speaker 1: eight in the Atlanta Dream, So I think that it's 80 00:04:13,120 --> 00:04:16,760 Speaker 1: going to happen, will it? She said in that interview 81 00:04:16,760 --> 00:04:19,920 Speaker 1: with the Athletic could be as early as which would 82 00:04:19,920 --> 00:04:24,080 Speaker 1: be perfect. You know, you have coming off such a 83 00:04:24,120 --> 00:04:27,000 Speaker 1: big March Madness. People want to see women's basketball and 84 00:04:27,000 --> 00:04:30,800 Speaker 1: they want to see it now, so hopefully you know 85 00:04:30,920 --> 00:04:33,200 Speaker 1: that's where we're going. I'm glad you brought up March 86 00:04:33,279 --> 00:04:35,880 Speaker 1: Madness because we're gonna get to our conversation with Grant Hill, 87 00:04:35,920 --> 00:04:37,359 Speaker 1: and I know it's going to come up because he 88 00:04:37,360 --> 00:04:40,520 Speaker 1: played four years at Duke. The college game for both 89 00:04:40,520 --> 00:04:43,440 Speaker 1: the men and the women is largely going to inform 90 00:04:43,480 --> 00:04:46,360 Speaker 1: what the pro leagues look like and and I l 91 00:04:46,560 --> 00:04:50,080 Speaker 1: is different. All of it's really different. So I'm excited. Yeah, 92 00:04:50,080 --> 00:04:51,279 Speaker 1: me too. I mean, I mean, I think it's like 93 00:04:51,360 --> 00:04:54,400 Speaker 1: the perfect time right now, especially when you're thinking of 94 00:04:54,600 --> 00:04:59,200 Speaker 1: the business of basketball. They're building themselves as stars in 95 00:04:59,400 --> 00:05:02,040 Speaker 1: college and they're able to profit off of it. So 96 00:05:02,120 --> 00:05:05,159 Speaker 1: one you'll see less people going broke by the time 97 00:05:05,200 --> 00:05:08,440 Speaker 1: they're in their twenties. You'll see bigger stars, you'll see 98 00:05:08,480 --> 00:05:11,200 Speaker 1: bigger fans. People are going to carry with them for 99 00:05:11,240 --> 00:05:15,000 Speaker 1: a long time. Page Bookers has been you know, famous 100 00:05:15,000 --> 00:05:17,880 Speaker 1: since she was in high school really, but people followed 101 00:05:17,880 --> 00:05:19,200 Speaker 1: her at Yukon and they were like, she's not in 102 00:05:19,200 --> 00:05:20,960 Speaker 1: the w n b A game right now, so it's 103 00:05:21,000 --> 00:05:24,520 Speaker 1: like when she gets there. Hopefully when she gets there, 104 00:05:24,560 --> 00:05:27,240 Speaker 1: there will be other teams for her to join and 105 00:05:27,240 --> 00:05:30,080 Speaker 1: it will be really exciting time, very interesting moment of 106 00:05:30,200 --> 00:05:33,440 Speaker 1: inflection all around the world of basketball. So let's turn 107 00:05:33,480 --> 00:05:35,240 Speaker 1: to a guy who knows a lot about that, and 108 00:05:35,320 --> 00:05:39,800 Speaker 1: my interview was Grant Hill. So Grant, it's really nice 109 00:05:39,839 --> 00:05:42,719 Speaker 1: to see you. Congratulations on the book it's called Game. 110 00:05:43,120 --> 00:05:46,039 Speaker 1: We're going to talk about that at length, but I 111 00:05:46,080 --> 00:05:50,280 Speaker 1: want to start by asking you about the state of basketball. 112 00:05:50,480 --> 00:05:52,920 Speaker 1: I mean, you see it from all different perspectives as 113 00:05:52,960 --> 00:05:55,560 Speaker 1: a former player, as the head of USA Basketball, as 114 00:05:55,600 --> 00:05:58,320 Speaker 1: an owner of a team. How would you describe it 115 00:05:58,440 --> 00:06:00,960 Speaker 1: the business of basketball right now? I think it's as 116 00:06:01,000 --> 00:06:04,920 Speaker 1: exciting as ever. The game is global. We're spreading our 117 00:06:04,960 --> 00:06:09,159 Speaker 1: wings all over the globe. Africa, the NBA Africa's was 118 00:06:09,200 --> 00:06:12,960 Speaker 1: just unleashed last year. I think now we're in the 119 00:06:13,000 --> 00:06:17,760 Speaker 1: midst of an exciting playoffs. Um, we didn't have a 120 00:06:17,839 --> 00:06:21,000 Speaker 1: Lebron James like we've used to having in the playoffs, 121 00:06:21,839 --> 00:06:24,279 Speaker 1: but we still have had great excitement. I think the 122 00:06:24,400 --> 00:06:27,279 Speaker 1: ratings Game one was as high as it's been. In 123 00:06:27,320 --> 00:06:31,200 Speaker 1: the last four years, we've seen an introduction of you know, 124 00:06:31,520 --> 00:06:36,320 Speaker 1: new young talent emerge in our game, and so leadership 125 00:06:36,560 --> 00:06:40,600 Speaker 1: from the league offices. I think we have incredibly successful 126 00:06:41,040 --> 00:06:45,520 Speaker 1: and engaged owners in our league now. I think, you know, 127 00:06:45,680 --> 00:06:48,520 Speaker 1: the diversity we have. I think half of our coaches 128 00:06:48,560 --> 00:06:51,760 Speaker 1: now are African American. Like, it's just we're the most 129 00:06:51,839 --> 00:06:56,240 Speaker 1: progressive UH sports league I think in the United States. UH. 130 00:06:56,279 --> 00:06:59,920 Speaker 1: And we're continuing to grow our business and grow interest 131 00:07:00,000 --> 00:07:02,120 Speaker 1: all over the world. So I think we're As someone 132 00:07:02,160 --> 00:07:06,080 Speaker 1: who's been around it and involved in different roles since 133 00:07:07,720 --> 00:07:10,240 Speaker 1: it's hard to believe has been that long, I'm really 134 00:07:10,280 --> 00:07:14,000 Speaker 1: excited about where we are and also what's in store 135 00:07:14,240 --> 00:07:16,400 Speaker 1: as we move forward into the future. We're gonna go 136 00:07:16,400 --> 00:07:18,280 Speaker 1: backwards in time a little bit. But but take me 137 00:07:18,360 --> 00:07:21,400 Speaker 1: back to coming into the league in ninety four, because 138 00:07:21,440 --> 00:07:24,040 Speaker 1: it was a different league than it was at a 139 00:07:24,720 --> 00:07:27,720 Speaker 1: in some ways a similar moment of inflection. You know, 140 00:07:27,800 --> 00:07:31,560 Speaker 1: you had some stars of the of the eighties and 141 00:07:31,680 --> 00:07:34,960 Speaker 1: early nineties sort of rolling off as it were. You 142 00:07:35,040 --> 00:07:39,440 Speaker 1: came in with a class of really exciting players. What 143 00:07:39,520 --> 00:07:42,400 Speaker 1: was different about then versus now? Well, first of all, 144 00:07:42,480 --> 00:07:46,480 Speaker 1: the eighties was an important, uh a decade for the league. 145 00:07:46,520 --> 00:07:51,640 Speaker 1: Magic Larry Bird, Lakers, Celtics. You couldn't script those rivalries 146 00:07:51,680 --> 00:07:54,360 Speaker 1: and those championships they won. And I think we really 147 00:07:55,320 --> 00:07:59,000 Speaker 1: the league built itself. David Stern sports marketing genius. I 148 00:07:59,080 --> 00:08:02,400 Speaker 1: think cable television was starting to emerge, like everything was 149 00:08:02,440 --> 00:08:06,239 Speaker 1: sort of starting to happen. Then this guy named Jordan's 150 00:08:06,400 --> 00:08:09,240 Speaker 1: uh you know, emerged in the late eighties early nineties, 151 00:08:10,120 --> 00:08:13,320 Speaker 1: the Dream Team. You know, now you're growing and and 152 00:08:13,400 --> 00:08:16,480 Speaker 1: sort of showcasing these talented players all over the globe. 153 00:08:17,320 --> 00:08:21,760 Speaker 1: So all this was happening prior tremendous amount of momentum 154 00:08:21,840 --> 00:08:26,160 Speaker 1: during that you know, fifteen years stretch, the growth of 155 00:08:26,200 --> 00:08:30,160 Speaker 1: the league and the success and popularity. And then incomes 156 00:08:30,200 --> 00:08:32,120 Speaker 1: this this you know, this kid from Duke with a 157 00:08:32,160 --> 00:08:36,000 Speaker 1: bad haircut, and uh, I emerge at a time where 158 00:08:36,760 --> 00:08:39,680 Speaker 1: things were just taking off contract it was reflected in 159 00:08:39,720 --> 00:08:43,920 Speaker 1: player contracts, marketing deals, opportunities which I was able to 160 00:08:43,960 --> 00:08:48,640 Speaker 1: benefit from. So I came in at a really uh 161 00:08:48,720 --> 00:08:51,360 Speaker 1: important time. There was also a bit of a void 162 00:08:51,640 --> 00:08:55,880 Speaker 1: that was Jordan's first retirement. Who was gonna next carry 163 00:08:55,920 --> 00:08:59,320 Speaker 1: that mantle? I kind of benefited that from that maybe 164 00:08:59,360 --> 00:09:02,200 Speaker 1: a little bit, maybe a little prematurely, I wasn't quite 165 00:09:02,559 --> 00:09:05,480 Speaker 1: ready for that kind of responsibility, but but yeah, I 166 00:09:05,520 --> 00:09:08,640 Speaker 1: mean it was it felt like we were at all 167 00:09:08,720 --> 00:09:13,120 Speaker 1: time high. And to think in the last plus years, 168 00:09:13,559 --> 00:09:16,199 Speaker 1: like we've taken it to a whole another level. Now, 169 00:09:16,240 --> 00:09:19,880 Speaker 1: this was before social media, this was before really even 170 00:09:20,240 --> 00:09:23,920 Speaker 1: the Internet, and and and and so it was. It 171 00:09:24,000 --> 00:09:26,240 Speaker 1: was a magical time. And I think a lot of 172 00:09:26,280 --> 00:09:29,600 Speaker 1: times we kind of refer to that era as sort 173 00:09:29,600 --> 00:09:32,280 Speaker 1: of the Golden era. The mid eighties to the mid 174 00:09:32,400 --> 00:09:36,040 Speaker 1: nineties was was an important part, important time frame, I 175 00:09:36,080 --> 00:09:39,680 Speaker 1: believe for the growth and the success of our league. Yeah, 176 00:09:39,760 --> 00:09:42,760 Speaker 1: and so let's go not all the way back, but 177 00:09:42,760 --> 00:09:45,440 Speaker 1: but pretty far back to Actually I am gonna I'm 178 00:09:45,440 --> 00:09:47,240 Speaker 1: gonna go all the way back to your birth because 179 00:09:47,840 --> 00:09:49,520 Speaker 1: one of the things I learned in your book that 180 00:09:49,559 --> 00:09:51,839 Speaker 1: you've talked a little bit about before was how you 181 00:09:52,000 --> 00:09:56,440 Speaker 1: got your name, which is not a typical story, and 182 00:09:56,800 --> 00:10:01,080 Speaker 1: also I think illustrates a lot about to where you 183 00:10:01,240 --> 00:10:03,880 Speaker 1: came from and and sort of what was very formative 184 00:10:03,920 --> 00:10:06,640 Speaker 1: for you in terms of your parents in their background. Yes, 185 00:10:06,760 --> 00:10:09,400 Speaker 1: so you know, my dad played for the Cowboys, and 186 00:10:10,200 --> 00:10:13,680 Speaker 1: Roger stall Back was obviously his teammate was in my 187 00:10:13,760 --> 00:10:17,599 Speaker 1: parents wedding, so our families were very close. Uh. In 188 00:10:17,679 --> 00:10:22,800 Speaker 1: anticipation of my arrival, my parents had picked out girls names. 189 00:10:22,840 --> 00:10:26,360 Speaker 1: And I think they assumed why and how I don't know, 190 00:10:26,440 --> 00:10:28,240 Speaker 1: but they assumed I would I would be a girl, 191 00:10:28,520 --> 00:10:33,360 Speaker 1: and obviously I wasn't. And anyone who knows my father, uh, 192 00:10:33,400 --> 00:10:36,760 Speaker 1: it takes him forever to make a decision. And so 193 00:10:36,920 --> 00:10:40,480 Speaker 1: for two or three days, I'm in Presbyterian Hospital in Dallas, Texas, 194 00:10:41,160 --> 00:10:44,240 Speaker 1: and um, my name is baby Boy Hill. And so 195 00:10:44,480 --> 00:10:47,679 Speaker 1: Roger Stallback comes to visit, you know, the baby and 196 00:10:48,000 --> 00:10:52,360 Speaker 1: mom and family, and is determined to give the baby 197 00:10:52,360 --> 00:10:57,040 Speaker 1: me a name. And uh, and so we took my 198 00:10:58,000 --> 00:11:03,720 Speaker 1: paternal grandmother and her maiden name is Grant and so 199 00:11:04,600 --> 00:11:08,079 Speaker 1: and my dad's middle name is Grant, so sort of 200 00:11:08,200 --> 00:11:11,080 Speaker 1: keeping it in the family, honoring, you know, my my 201 00:11:11,280 --> 00:11:14,720 Speaker 1: parents family, my dad's family. Uh. And so I'm grateful 202 00:11:14,760 --> 00:11:17,960 Speaker 1: I might have been able to leverage baby Boy Hill 203 00:11:18,080 --> 00:11:21,000 Speaker 1: later as an athlete that could have had a nice room. 204 00:11:23,080 --> 00:11:25,600 Speaker 1: He's not of babies now and entertainment, and I might 205 00:11:25,640 --> 00:11:27,280 Speaker 1: have been ahead of my head of my time, but 206 00:11:28,040 --> 00:11:31,960 Speaker 1: but like a good Hall of Fame iconic quarterback, he 207 00:11:32,080 --> 00:11:35,079 Speaker 1: came in, took charge of the huddle or in this case, 208 00:11:36,400 --> 00:11:40,000 Speaker 1: the hospital room, and gave me my name. And as 209 00:11:40,040 --> 00:11:43,040 Speaker 1: a football fan growing up in the late seventies early 210 00:11:43,080 --> 00:11:46,760 Speaker 1: eighties in Washington, d C. That was my claim to 211 00:11:46,840 --> 00:11:49,640 Speaker 1: fame as a cowboy fan, to be able to brag 212 00:11:49,679 --> 00:11:52,360 Speaker 1: in elementary school that Roger stall Back named me. Yeah, 213 00:11:52,400 --> 00:11:56,520 Speaker 1: I mean that the weird but okay, as the kids say, right, 214 00:11:57,320 --> 00:12:02,080 Speaker 1: And so let's talk about your parents, maybe from a 215 00:12:02,160 --> 00:12:05,280 Speaker 1: slightly different perspective, given that we are here at Bloomberg, 216 00:12:05,320 --> 00:12:09,600 Speaker 1: which is your business sense, the decisions that you make 217 00:12:09,760 --> 00:12:15,360 Speaker 1: over time about your career, your education, and even your 218 00:12:15,400 --> 00:12:21,559 Speaker 1: subsequent jobs clearly are rooted in their guidance in many 219 00:12:21,559 --> 00:12:25,000 Speaker 1: ways and sort of the template they set. One of 220 00:12:25,040 --> 00:12:27,600 Speaker 1: the things that you talked about in the book, which 221 00:12:27,640 --> 00:12:30,720 Speaker 1: I found so interesting, is this notion that your parents 222 00:12:30,800 --> 00:12:35,880 Speaker 1: success initially was actually unhelpful to you and like and 223 00:12:36,120 --> 00:12:39,160 Speaker 1: from a credibility perspective on the court, I mean, I'm 224 00:12:39,200 --> 00:12:41,160 Speaker 1: overstating it, but but tell me a little bit more 225 00:12:41,160 --> 00:12:43,679 Speaker 1: about that. Well, you know, first of all, I'm an 226 00:12:43,679 --> 00:12:47,200 Speaker 1: only child of two only children, so we were and 227 00:12:47,240 --> 00:12:51,480 Speaker 1: we are very close. And I think they were constantly 228 00:12:51,520 --> 00:12:55,600 Speaker 1: trying to just use whatever, you know, whatever they experience 229 00:12:55,679 --> 00:12:59,000 Speaker 1: in their careers in business and in sport to teach 230 00:12:59,040 --> 00:13:01,840 Speaker 1: me and less learned. And so, you know, little did 231 00:13:01,880 --> 00:13:04,280 Speaker 1: I know that would help me later on as I 232 00:13:04,440 --> 00:13:07,120 Speaker 1: entered the business of sport in a number of different ways. 233 00:13:07,160 --> 00:13:12,840 Speaker 1: But they were achievers, they were successful, and I was 234 00:13:12,920 --> 00:13:15,560 Speaker 1: cognizant and aware of that. And a lot of my 235 00:13:15,760 --> 00:13:21,160 Speaker 1: peers from different ethnicities, different like didn't have parents who 236 00:13:21,520 --> 00:13:23,480 Speaker 1: were my mom and dad, and so I was always 237 00:13:23,520 --> 00:13:27,040 Speaker 1: aware of that. At times, it was intimidating, and I 238 00:13:27,080 --> 00:13:30,680 Speaker 1: struggled with confidence. I think sometimes those were such big 239 00:13:30,720 --> 00:13:34,640 Speaker 1: shoes to fill and felt overwhelming during my young years. 240 00:13:35,280 --> 00:13:38,679 Speaker 1: But in basketball like that doesn't help you, you know, 241 00:13:39,080 --> 00:13:41,440 Speaker 1: and sometimes people that could be a hindrance, you know. 242 00:13:41,640 --> 00:13:44,440 Speaker 1: And and the perception of a you know, of a 243 00:13:44,559 --> 00:13:48,360 Speaker 1: dad who was a professional athlete. Everyone's coming after you. 244 00:13:48,400 --> 00:13:51,600 Speaker 1: Everyone thinks you can't play, and so you know, I 245 00:13:51,600 --> 00:13:54,080 Speaker 1: I kind of, you know, use that to my advantage. 246 00:13:54,840 --> 00:13:58,160 Speaker 1: Uh And and you know, perception steroids, whatever was there. 247 00:13:58,240 --> 00:14:00,760 Speaker 1: You could feel it sometimes. But you know, the one 248 00:14:00,800 --> 00:14:03,360 Speaker 1: thing in sports, I say it's the ultimate meritocracy, first 249 00:14:03,400 --> 00:14:08,640 Speaker 1: of all. And as a parent of girls who are jocks, 250 00:14:09,520 --> 00:14:13,840 Speaker 1: there's nothing I can do in terms of money, resources, 251 00:14:13,920 --> 00:14:19,000 Speaker 1: whatever that can make them be successful. They have to 252 00:14:19,040 --> 00:14:22,320 Speaker 1: go out and earn it. And I was so driven 253 00:14:22,640 --> 00:14:24,800 Speaker 1: when I was their age and I was young to 254 00:14:25,040 --> 00:14:28,240 Speaker 1: earn whatever came my way on the playing field or 255 00:14:28,240 --> 00:14:31,400 Speaker 1: in this case, on the basketball court. And so my 256 00:14:31,520 --> 00:14:34,800 Speaker 1: parents success that was great, had great advantages, great exposure, 257 00:14:34,840 --> 00:14:39,000 Speaker 1: great education, lessons learned, still learning to this day. But 258 00:14:39,600 --> 00:14:41,280 Speaker 1: that doesn't help you when you're on the court and 259 00:14:41,320 --> 00:14:44,040 Speaker 1: you're at the playground or you're trying to establish yourself. 260 00:14:44,560 --> 00:14:47,320 Speaker 1: And so I was determined to like carve out my 261 00:14:47,360 --> 00:14:51,160 Speaker 1: own lane and to do my own thing. And in 262 00:14:51,200 --> 00:14:53,400 Speaker 1: part maybe why I didn't play football, which was my 263 00:14:53,480 --> 00:14:55,960 Speaker 1: first love. Not also my dad wouldn't let me play 264 00:14:56,040 --> 00:14:59,280 Speaker 1: until I got to high school. But basketball, like was 265 00:14:59,320 --> 00:15:02,720 Speaker 1: it was a chance us for me to achieve and 266 00:15:02,760 --> 00:15:06,960 Speaker 1: a chance to prove that I could do well. Yeah, 267 00:15:07,040 --> 00:15:09,800 Speaker 1: well it also and and this could be the subject 268 00:15:09,800 --> 00:15:14,040 Speaker 1: of an entirely other podcast of you Know Me opening 269 00:15:14,080 --> 00:15:17,360 Speaker 1: the fact about the fact that are bemoaning the fact 270 00:15:17,440 --> 00:15:19,280 Speaker 1: that you didn't end up at Georgetown and you ended 271 00:15:19,320 --> 00:15:21,640 Speaker 1: up at Duke. But we we won't we won't deal that. 272 00:15:21,680 --> 00:15:24,360 Speaker 1: But let's talk about Duke for a second, because there 273 00:15:24,360 --> 00:15:26,200 Speaker 1: are a couple of things that are notable about your 274 00:15:26,240 --> 00:15:28,480 Speaker 1: career there that set you up for where you are today. 275 00:15:28,880 --> 00:15:30,680 Speaker 1: One is obviously coach k and you write a lot 276 00:15:30,720 --> 00:15:33,200 Speaker 1: about him in the book, and I've seen you with 277 00:15:33,280 --> 00:15:37,520 Speaker 1: him on stage, and clearly that bond is incredibly deep 278 00:15:37,600 --> 00:15:43,240 Speaker 1: and meaningful. But you're also of a generation that went 279 00:15:43,520 --> 00:15:47,120 Speaker 1: to school for four years and graduated, and that's not 280 00:15:47,200 --> 00:15:49,160 Speaker 1: the n B A or that's not the the n 281 00:15:49,200 --> 00:15:52,400 Speaker 1: C Double A and an NBA that we're in right now. 282 00:15:52,920 --> 00:15:55,520 Speaker 1: How has that How do you look back on on 283 00:15:55,600 --> 00:15:58,680 Speaker 1: that decision and then the state of basketball today, of 284 00:15:58,760 --> 00:16:01,960 Speaker 1: which you have a really league important steak in in 285 00:16:02,280 --> 00:16:05,040 Speaker 1: USA Basketball and as an owner of a team. Yeah, 286 00:16:05,120 --> 00:16:07,720 Speaker 1: I mean it's hard to think that you know, players, 287 00:16:08,200 --> 00:16:11,280 Speaker 1: you know, majority stayed in school all four years and 288 00:16:11,720 --> 00:16:15,360 Speaker 1: a totally different time and it wasn't even like it 289 00:16:15,440 --> 00:16:18,080 Speaker 1: wasn't even an option like I didn't. It wasn't something 290 00:16:18,120 --> 00:16:20,440 Speaker 1: that I I mean, there there were some examples of 291 00:16:20,760 --> 00:16:23,920 Speaker 1: players Magic Johnson after two years, and certain guys that 292 00:16:24,000 --> 00:16:27,120 Speaker 1: Michael Jordan's was there for three years at North Carolina. 293 00:16:27,240 --> 00:16:29,160 Speaker 1: But for the most part, you stayed in school, and 294 00:16:29,200 --> 00:16:31,640 Speaker 1: I like I had fun, Like I would have stayed 295 00:16:31,680 --> 00:16:34,240 Speaker 1: another year, Like I had so much fun as a 296 00:16:34,280 --> 00:16:38,920 Speaker 1: student athlete. But you know, things have changed. And um, 297 00:16:39,000 --> 00:16:42,080 Speaker 1: I think first of all the four years that I 298 00:16:42,160 --> 00:16:45,360 Speaker 1: was there, we did some amazing things. But there's a 299 00:16:45,440 --> 00:16:49,360 Speaker 1: connection that I have with that school and I had 300 00:16:49,400 --> 00:16:52,120 Speaker 1: with my alma mater, and other players of that era 301 00:16:52,240 --> 00:16:55,640 Speaker 1: I think had with their school, the alumni, the school, 302 00:16:55,640 --> 00:16:59,880 Speaker 1: the administration of fact, like everybody got to know you think, 303 00:17:00,160 --> 00:17:04,119 Speaker 1: to follow your journey, and that emotional connection that we 304 00:17:04,200 --> 00:17:07,880 Speaker 1: have with you have with Georgetown. You know, you get 305 00:17:07,920 --> 00:17:10,360 Speaker 1: a chance to be and watch that. When guys now 306 00:17:10,400 --> 00:17:12,440 Speaker 1: are only there for one year, you don't really get 307 00:17:12,480 --> 00:17:15,800 Speaker 1: a chance to know them and connect with them and 308 00:17:15,840 --> 00:17:18,560 Speaker 1: feel like like they're one of ours or we're one. 309 00:17:18,600 --> 00:17:20,600 Speaker 1: You know, we're we're all in this together. And so 310 00:17:21,160 --> 00:17:24,800 Speaker 1: I think it's impacted intercollegiate sports. And but you know 311 00:17:24,840 --> 00:17:28,080 Speaker 1: college basketball, uh, the n b A, I mean we've 312 00:17:28,160 --> 00:17:31,080 Speaker 1: we've been younger, We've become a younger league in the 313 00:17:31,160 --> 00:17:35,199 Speaker 1: last twenty years. I think we've adapted to that trend 314 00:17:36,040 --> 00:17:40,520 Speaker 1: when players like Kevin Garnett, Kobe Bryant, Tracy McGrady uh 315 00:17:40,800 --> 00:17:44,159 Speaker 1: skipped college and went right from high school into the NBA. 316 00:17:44,600 --> 00:17:47,760 Speaker 1: When the league changed that rule to to now a 317 00:17:47,880 --> 00:17:49,679 Speaker 1: one and done you had to go to college for 318 00:17:49,760 --> 00:17:53,480 Speaker 1: one year, I don't think we had the resources to 319 00:17:53,720 --> 00:18:00,320 Speaker 1: support young teenagers making that transition. Obviously there were example bowls, 320 00:18:00,840 --> 00:18:04,520 Speaker 1: Kobe Garnett, Tea Mac they became Hall of famers, there 321 00:18:04,560 --> 00:18:07,200 Speaker 1: a legendar, but there are other examples of players who struggle. 322 00:18:07,960 --> 00:18:10,960 Speaker 1: And so as you fast forward to present day, and 323 00:18:10,960 --> 00:18:14,280 Speaker 1: I know what the Hawks like. We have unlimited resources. 324 00:18:14,320 --> 00:18:17,160 Speaker 1: We have people who help with player development on the court, 325 00:18:17,880 --> 00:18:24,000 Speaker 1: off the court, um and that transition from one year 326 00:18:24,040 --> 00:18:28,040 Speaker 1: of college, two years of college to now the responsibilities 327 00:18:28,400 --> 00:18:31,959 Speaker 1: and the pressures and in all of the potential pitfalls 328 00:18:31,960 --> 00:18:34,760 Speaker 1: that are out there. Uh, we're able to support these 329 00:18:34,760 --> 00:18:37,320 Speaker 1: players a lot. And I think that's universal across the 330 00:18:37,359 --> 00:18:40,760 Speaker 1: board in the NBA. So, uh, the times have changed. 331 00:18:40,960 --> 00:18:45,560 Speaker 1: Were younger, we draft more maybe on potential and what 332 00:18:45,640 --> 00:18:49,200 Speaker 1: they potentially could become. They're pretty they're pretty darn good, 333 00:18:50,119 --> 00:18:52,120 Speaker 1: you know, and it's it's amazing to watch and from 334 00:18:52,119 --> 00:18:54,840 Speaker 1: an economic perspective, you look at something like the changing 335 00:18:55,119 --> 00:18:59,000 Speaker 1: rules around name, im engine likeness, I mean everything. See 336 00:18:59,359 --> 00:19:01,160 Speaker 1: i'd say every thing, but a lot of things seem 337 00:19:01,240 --> 00:19:05,200 Speaker 1: to be changing around the life of a college and 338 00:19:05,280 --> 00:19:08,480 Speaker 1: a pro athlete. What's the advice that you give, especially 339 00:19:08,520 --> 00:19:12,280 Speaker 1: from a business perspective, having made that transition into the 340 00:19:12,320 --> 00:19:14,520 Speaker 1: business world, what's the advice you give to to those 341 00:19:14,560 --> 00:19:18,240 Speaker 1: players coming through? Well, a lot is happening, you know. 342 00:19:18,320 --> 00:19:25,040 Speaker 1: Intercollegiate athletics is rapidly evolving, and it's a little it's exciting, 343 00:19:25,080 --> 00:19:29,200 Speaker 1: but it's also a little scary and and just because 344 00:19:29,200 --> 00:19:31,480 Speaker 1: we don't know what that's gonna look like, even the 345 00:19:31,600 --> 00:19:33,880 Speaker 1: n I L it just seems like we've gone from 346 00:19:33,920 --> 00:19:38,600 Speaker 1: one extreme to the to the next extreme. Um, you know, 347 00:19:39,080 --> 00:19:42,960 Speaker 1: I think sometimes. Look, I had an issue in college 348 00:19:43,000 --> 00:19:45,680 Speaker 1: when I tried to buy my jersey in the bookstore 349 00:19:46,400 --> 00:19:48,919 Speaker 1: and because of the rules, the school couldn't give me 350 00:19:49,320 --> 00:19:51,760 Speaker 1: a jersey and I had to pay a hundred and 351 00:19:51,760 --> 00:19:54,719 Speaker 1: twenty dollars from my own jersey, And like, to me, 352 00:19:54,760 --> 00:19:57,480 Speaker 1: that's it. That still doesn't sit right with me, And 353 00:19:57,840 --> 00:19:59,800 Speaker 1: not that they're making money off of me, but just 354 00:20:00,040 --> 00:20:01,840 Speaker 1: fact that I had to pay for my own jersey 355 00:20:01,920 --> 00:20:05,520 Speaker 1: like that. I didn't quite understand that. But now you 356 00:20:05,600 --> 00:20:10,400 Speaker 1: have extremes amount of money that certain players, certain athletes 357 00:20:10,440 --> 00:20:12,600 Speaker 1: are are getting, and go ahead and get as much 358 00:20:12,640 --> 00:20:16,560 Speaker 1: as you can. It just changes things a little bit. 359 00:20:16,880 --> 00:20:21,040 Speaker 1: And now the innocence now the relationship with the school. 360 00:20:21,720 --> 00:20:23,639 Speaker 1: You know, you can almost be looked upon in some 361 00:20:23,720 --> 00:20:27,960 Speaker 1: ways as an employee. And and so you're not there 362 00:20:28,000 --> 00:20:31,280 Speaker 1: at the ultimate you haven't reached the destination yet of 363 00:20:31,320 --> 00:20:35,000 Speaker 1: getting to the professional ranks. I hope that that doesn't 364 00:20:35,280 --> 00:20:39,760 Speaker 1: hinder that that process for some of these players and 365 00:20:39,920 --> 00:20:43,119 Speaker 1: change the dynamics in the locker room. You know, one 366 00:20:43,160 --> 00:20:44,679 Speaker 1: of the things when I went from being a college 367 00:20:44,680 --> 00:20:47,800 Speaker 1: player to a pro player was now it's a business. 368 00:20:48,240 --> 00:20:52,119 Speaker 1: Now not everybody necessarily wants to see you succeed on 369 00:20:52,240 --> 00:20:55,160 Speaker 1: your own team. And now you throw this money around 370 00:20:55,200 --> 00:20:58,000 Speaker 1: in college, and you sometimes can worry will that be 371 00:20:58,080 --> 00:21:01,960 Speaker 1: the case in the intercollegiate environment. One of the other 372 00:21:01,960 --> 00:21:04,959 Speaker 1: big changes that we've seen, you've seen it from multiple 373 00:21:05,160 --> 00:21:09,280 Speaker 1: perspectives in current day, and you saw it coming through 374 00:21:09,320 --> 00:21:14,520 Speaker 1: your career is athlete empowerment um speaking out politically. You 375 00:21:14,640 --> 00:21:17,239 Speaker 1: write in your book about I believe it was your 376 00:21:17,280 --> 00:21:20,160 Speaker 1: mom's business partner, Cliff Alexander, and sort of learning about 377 00:21:20,200 --> 00:21:23,560 Speaker 1: the civil rights movement from him, learning about art from 378 00:21:23,640 --> 00:21:27,320 Speaker 1: you know, all these characteristics, all this history, all this 379 00:21:27,440 --> 00:21:32,359 Speaker 1: heritage that was candidly more in the background when you 380 00:21:32,400 --> 00:21:34,960 Speaker 1: were coming up as a player. And you mentioned this 381 00:21:35,000 --> 00:21:38,040 Speaker 1: in your book, the famous Jordan line about Republicans by 382 00:21:38,200 --> 00:21:42,600 Speaker 1: choose to even in your transition, And I had forgotten 383 00:21:42,600 --> 00:21:44,840 Speaker 1: about this until I read it in the book. You 384 00:21:44,880 --> 00:21:48,040 Speaker 1: spoke at the Democratic National Convention. You know, you have 385 00:21:48,640 --> 00:21:52,320 Speaker 1: become close with the Obama's and as has your mom. 386 00:21:52,359 --> 00:21:56,720 Speaker 1: You're much more politically outspoken, and players now take it 387 00:21:56,760 --> 00:21:59,960 Speaker 1: even a step further and maybe intern with social media 388 00:22:00,080 --> 00:22:03,399 Speaker 1: and whatnot. How do you interpret all of that and 389 00:22:03,720 --> 00:22:06,879 Speaker 1: what's the right sort of balance to to take when 390 00:22:06,960 --> 00:22:11,160 Speaker 1: it comes to activism and political activism for an athlete. Well, 391 00:22:11,200 --> 00:22:15,880 Speaker 1: if you look over you know, the last sixty years 392 00:22:15,920 --> 00:22:20,800 Speaker 1: in the role that athletes have taken as it relates 393 00:22:20,840 --> 00:22:24,800 Speaker 1: to activists, and you think of Bill Russell, Kareem Muhammad Ali. 394 00:22:25,680 --> 00:22:28,399 Speaker 1: Our country at that time was was obviously going through 395 00:22:28,960 --> 00:22:31,880 Speaker 1: a lot and was in the midst of changing and transitioning, 396 00:22:31,960 --> 00:22:35,480 Speaker 1: and so they were speaking to what they were experiencing, 397 00:22:35,600 --> 00:22:39,159 Speaker 1: even as superstar athletes. A lot of people like to 398 00:22:39,160 --> 00:22:41,680 Speaker 1: say my era in the nineties, we we we failed, 399 00:22:42,040 --> 00:22:45,240 Speaker 1: but a lot was happening in sports and there. First 400 00:22:45,280 --> 00:22:48,720 Speaker 1: of all, the money that was being made was extreme. Also, 401 00:22:49,480 --> 00:22:54,439 Speaker 1: the access to information was not like it is now 402 00:22:55,280 --> 00:22:59,560 Speaker 1: this young generation, I think the digital age that we're 403 00:22:59,600 --> 00:23:05,320 Speaker 1: in social media, the sharing and exchanging of what's happening 404 00:23:05,840 --> 00:23:08,800 Speaker 1: not just in your own backyard, but what's happening all 405 00:23:08,840 --> 00:23:11,359 Speaker 1: over the world. I knew it was a game changer 406 00:23:11,560 --> 00:23:13,280 Speaker 1: two thousand I think this was the right year, two 407 00:23:13,320 --> 00:23:15,680 Speaker 1: thousand and ten. Maybe I don't know the exact date 408 00:23:15,800 --> 00:23:20,520 Speaker 1: exactly year, but I had Twitter, and we had I 409 00:23:20,560 --> 00:23:24,080 Speaker 1: guess captured and ultimately I think killed Osama bin Laden 410 00:23:25,040 --> 00:23:28,119 Speaker 1: and I found out about it on Twitter. And I 411 00:23:28,160 --> 00:23:30,399 Speaker 1: remember in that moment and I was new to it 412 00:23:30,440 --> 00:23:32,520 Speaker 1: and trying to understand it. But I told my wife, 413 00:23:32,560 --> 00:23:35,960 Speaker 1: I said, wow, this is when years ago you would 414 00:23:35,960 --> 00:23:39,320 Speaker 1: have danned rather or you know, breaking news on major 415 00:23:39,400 --> 00:23:43,480 Speaker 1: network and here we are on Twitter finding out this information. 416 00:23:43,560 --> 00:23:46,120 Speaker 1: And so to me that was that was a sort 417 00:23:46,160 --> 00:23:48,439 Speaker 1: of a change in a lot of ways. And so 418 00:23:48,520 --> 00:23:53,040 Speaker 1: this generation who all they know is the internet, how 419 00:23:53,080 --> 00:23:56,040 Speaker 1: to deal with social media, so they had they had 420 00:23:56,119 --> 00:23:58,639 Speaker 1: the access. If I played in Detroit in the nineties 421 00:23:59,080 --> 00:24:03,600 Speaker 1: and something happened not far away in Cincinnati, Ohio, I 422 00:24:03,640 --> 00:24:06,840 Speaker 1: could dig for it and really look and research. But 423 00:24:07,160 --> 00:24:08,840 Speaker 1: you know, unless it was on the news or it 424 00:24:08,880 --> 00:24:11,520 Speaker 1: was reported, you know, you really didn't know. You were 425 00:24:11,600 --> 00:24:17,000 Speaker 1: kind of unaware. And and so now this generation, I 426 00:24:17,040 --> 00:24:23,480 Speaker 1: applaud them, Um, I applaud our league for we're embracing athletes, 427 00:24:23,520 --> 00:24:28,000 Speaker 1: sticking out uh and talking about issues, talking being critical 428 00:24:28,240 --> 00:24:31,480 Speaker 1: about the world we live, being critical about our league, 429 00:24:31,920 --> 00:24:34,520 Speaker 1: you know, being critical about everything. But you know, you 430 00:24:34,600 --> 00:24:40,320 Speaker 1: have to be willing to adapt and adjust over the years. 431 00:24:40,440 --> 00:24:47,960 Speaker 1: And I think successful organizations, successful businesses, successful leaders I 432 00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:51,600 Speaker 1: think to have longevity are willing to do that. And 433 00:24:51,640 --> 00:24:56,080 Speaker 1: I think our league accepts that and our players lived 434 00:24:56,119 --> 00:24:58,399 Speaker 1: that and demonstrate that, and it's something we're proud of. 435 00:24:59,200 --> 00:25:02,359 Speaker 1: As we wrap up, it occurs to me, having having 436 00:25:02,359 --> 00:25:04,639 Speaker 1: read the book, you know, there are so many clear 437 00:25:04,800 --> 00:25:12,399 Speaker 1: through lines and in terms of your ambition, your motivation, tenacity, etcetera, 438 00:25:12,400 --> 00:25:16,439 Speaker 1: through injury, all of those things, and there was a 439 00:25:16,440 --> 00:25:19,959 Speaker 1: pretty clear like north Star throughout you know, whether it was, 440 00:25:20,080 --> 00:25:22,760 Speaker 1: you know, going to the right college, getting to the league, 441 00:25:23,160 --> 00:25:26,360 Speaker 1: achieving the league, you right about, going to the All 442 00:25:26,400 --> 00:25:30,480 Speaker 1: Star Game, playing in the you know, Olympic, things like that. 443 00:25:31,600 --> 00:25:34,520 Speaker 1: What's your north star is a business man? You know, 444 00:25:35,320 --> 00:25:37,280 Speaker 1: I'm still trying to figure it out, you know, I 445 00:25:37,280 --> 00:25:41,560 Speaker 1: think I think we um. I've been retired now since 446 00:25:41,600 --> 00:25:49,040 Speaker 1: two thou and I think sometimes UM, in retirement, you 447 00:25:49,160 --> 00:25:51,960 Speaker 1: have to try a number of things to figure out 448 00:25:52,359 --> 00:25:56,800 Speaker 1: what you like, what's your passion, what's you're good at 449 00:25:57,040 --> 00:26:01,199 Speaker 1: maybe not good at? UM. And I do think in 450 00:26:01,240 --> 00:26:05,320 Speaker 1: the process of writing the book, I came to the 451 00:26:05,359 --> 00:26:08,840 Speaker 1: realization that because you have to live in your past 452 00:26:08,880 --> 00:26:12,200 Speaker 1: and you have to attack certain things that have happened 453 00:26:12,200 --> 00:26:15,560 Speaker 1: throughout your life, or at least UH be willing to 454 00:26:15,680 --> 00:26:19,880 Speaker 1: unpack them. And I do think that. And I've done 455 00:26:19,880 --> 00:26:22,199 Speaker 1: a number of things, and I'm grateful for him, and 456 00:26:22,200 --> 00:26:26,560 Speaker 1: I enjoy everything, but I think the void of not 457 00:26:26,760 --> 00:26:30,440 Speaker 1: seeing my career all the way through and on this 458 00:26:30,640 --> 00:26:35,520 Speaker 1: awesome trajectory early on and then that being derailed. Yeah, 459 00:26:35,520 --> 00:26:37,280 Speaker 1: I came back and I had fun, and I you know, 460 00:26:37,400 --> 00:26:42,080 Speaker 1: appreciative and grateful for that, but not seeing it all 461 00:26:42,119 --> 00:26:47,040 Speaker 1: the way through has given me this obsessive thirst and 462 00:26:47,160 --> 00:26:50,960 Speaker 1: hungry to achieve. And I think the lesson and thing 463 00:26:51,000 --> 00:26:53,840 Speaker 1: that I've learned here is that I can't say yes 464 00:26:53,840 --> 00:26:57,720 Speaker 1: today everything. And I think at times I've tried to 465 00:26:57,760 --> 00:27:02,840 Speaker 1: do everything and I've run myself racket. And and so 466 00:27:02,920 --> 00:27:06,920 Speaker 1: I'm like taking inventory right now of my life and like, Okay, 467 00:27:07,040 --> 00:27:11,080 Speaker 1: I have a lot on my plate, and why and 468 00:27:11,160 --> 00:27:15,600 Speaker 1: why do I feel this urge to achieve? And I 469 00:27:15,640 --> 00:27:20,120 Speaker 1: think a lot of it is not fully uh coming 470 00:27:20,200 --> 00:27:24,520 Speaker 1: to terms with my career and some of the things 471 00:27:24,600 --> 00:27:28,600 Speaker 1: that unfortunately happened during my career. So how do you 472 00:27:28,840 --> 00:27:30,639 Speaker 1: so what do you do next? But what do you 473 00:27:30,640 --> 00:27:32,760 Speaker 1: do to solve that problem? That's the Yeah, that's the 474 00:27:32,760 --> 00:27:34,439 Speaker 1: next book. But I mean, I think, I think so, 475 00:27:34,560 --> 00:27:36,840 Speaker 1: you know, I mean, look, I apply a lot of 476 00:27:36,840 --> 00:27:40,040 Speaker 1: the values and principles that I learned from Coach k 477 00:27:40,280 --> 00:27:44,600 Speaker 1: that I learned throughout my basketball journey in the next 478 00:27:44,720 --> 00:27:48,240 Speaker 1: chapter in the life I'm living now. And you know, 479 00:27:48,760 --> 00:27:52,960 Speaker 1: in ownership with the team in the USA basketball, working 480 00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:58,960 Speaker 1: with others, managing success, handling failure, sacrifice, all these intrinsic value, 481 00:27:59,040 --> 00:28:04,040 Speaker 1: these values that are necessary for success. I I wholeheartedly 482 00:28:04,080 --> 00:28:08,560 Speaker 1: believe they transfer and carry over into other aspects of life. 483 00:28:08,840 --> 00:28:10,680 Speaker 1: That's why Coach K gets like a million dollars to 484 00:28:10,680 --> 00:28:12,680 Speaker 1: give a speech at a well, not a million dollars, 485 00:28:12,680 --> 00:28:15,320 Speaker 1: but it gets a lot of money to speak at 486 00:28:15,320 --> 00:28:18,840 Speaker 1: a corporate event because people are fascinated by team building 487 00:28:18,880 --> 00:28:23,879 Speaker 1: and leadership and we live it sports. There's immediate results 488 00:28:24,640 --> 00:28:27,440 Speaker 1: for the whole world to see and judge into critique. 489 00:28:27,840 --> 00:28:30,000 Speaker 1: A lot of times in business it's like sawing wood 490 00:28:30,040 --> 00:28:34,000 Speaker 1: and over time you might get those results. But building team, 491 00:28:34,119 --> 00:28:38,960 Speaker 1: collaborating with others, having a collective responsibility, that's all sports, 492 00:28:39,320 --> 00:28:43,160 Speaker 1: team sports, and really that's business as well as people 493 00:28:44,240 --> 00:28:48,160 Speaker 1: and talent. Grant Hill, so good dispense in time with you. 494 00:28:48,280 --> 00:28:58,120 Speaker 1: The book is game. Thanks, We'll be back next week. 495 00:28:58,200 --> 00:29:00,360 Speaker 1: Until then, you can find this on the Bloomberg Terminal, 496 00:29:00,440 --> 00:29:04,000 Speaker 1: website and app or wherever you get your podcasts. We 497 00:29:04,160 --> 00:29:05,600 Speaker 1: love it if you took the time to rate and 498 00:29:05,680 --> 00:29:08,120 Speaker 1: review the show on Apple podcast so more listeners can 499 00:29:08,160 --> 00:29:10,720 Speaker 1: find us. And you can find me on Twitter follow 500 00:29:10,760 --> 00:29:13,480 Speaker 1: me at Jason Kelly News. You can also follow Bloomberg 501 00:29:13,560 --> 00:29:17,920 Speaker 1: podcast at at podcasts. The franchise is produced by Stacy Wong, 502 00:29:18,360 --> 00:29:21,800 Speaker 1: the head of Bloomberg podcast is Francesco lev Thanks for listening, 503 00:29:21,960 --> 00:29:22,720 Speaker 1: See you next time.