Speaker 1: Of the Law and Order franchises. SVU is considered especially watchable.
Speaker 2: We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the
Speaker 2: vicious felonies. These episodes are based on These are our stories.
Speaker 3: Done done.
Speaker 2: Yay, that's messed up. An SVU podcast. This is number
Speaker 2: two eighty two two eight two uh pumps to be here.
Speaker 1: I'm Lisa Trigger and I'm Kara Klank And as you know,
Speaker 1: every week it's SVU recaps, it's true crime, deep dives.
Speaker 1: It's interviews with cool celebs, interesting people.
Speaker 4: Except not this one. No celebris in this one.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we just get to talk more, which is yeah,
Speaker 1: No one today, No one today.
Speaker 2: But guess what I found. I found my new person
Speaker 2: for two weeks. So get ready, guys. Oh there's a change.
Speaker 4: There's not a change. It's not a change. The new
Speaker 4: you know O'Connor story.
Speaker 2: Tiffany's little video came out today, like I'm still invested,
Speaker 2: but lost Boys the musical, Oh my fucking mind. And
Speaker 2: then I came home, bought the movie immediately, only watched
Speaker 2: half of it because I'm reading Yesteryear. I had to
Speaker 2: get back to my book. I'm going to finish it today.
Speaker 2: But I am in.
Speaker 4: I never understood the key for Sutherland Pandemonium. I do now.
Speaker 4: I mean, I like, I fucking loved this musical.
Speaker 2: If you like this movie I've never you should go
Speaker 2: to see it.
Speaker 4: It was incredible.
Speaker 1: No, it's funny because you sat you mentioned it, yeah
Speaker 1: at another point that you were going to see it,
Speaker 1: and I was like, oh, I haven't heard of that.
Speaker 1: I mean I've heard of obviously. The movie The Lost Boys.
Speaker 1: I didn't know was the musical.
Speaker 4: I hadn't.
Speaker 2: I thought I was seeing The Outsiders when she when
Speaker 2: I got the text, I went, oh, the Outsiders, all right,
Speaker 2: like in my head, I didn't even know the Lost Boys.
Speaker 2: Then I see all these gothic people in line, and
Speaker 2: I go, what's going on? And then I realized it's vampires.
Speaker 2: And then the people I was with because I got
Speaker 2: her a last minute invite, they're like suspension artists that
Speaker 2: like hang from their knees and necks and like blood,
Speaker 2: so they're like blood enthusiasts. The girl I was with,
Speaker 2: she was wearing like bloody healed shoes like ever, like
Speaker 2: there's a lot of goth energy happening. Okay, So then
Speaker 2: I realized, oh, okay, vampires.
Speaker 4: Nice. Interesting.
Speaker 1: Well then I I I as soon as you mentioned it,
Speaker 1: of course, like on my Instagram, like yesterday was somebody
Speaker 1: being like the new hot musical is Lost Bowl, I
Speaker 1: mean like you know, and then the other one they
Speaker 1: were talking about, but.
Speaker 2: It was up a plus like a Shoshana Bean I
Speaker 2: mean every vocally Superstars.
Speaker 1: Oh it's Joshana Bean hash she has with John Hill.
Speaker 1: Oh oh my god, I should text him because she
Speaker 1: nailed it. Not that she eats Joe needs to know that,
Speaker 1: she's like a legend, but vocally everyone was like incredible.
Speaker 1: But the set, there's no way it's not winning every
Speaker 1: fucking Tony Award.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's what I was, really I was.
Speaker 1: It's like one of the most already nominated for all
Speaker 1: these awards, like I know, maybe not Tony but other awards.
Speaker 2: The set was unbelievable, and then the effects, the effects,
Speaker 2: and then watching the movie, I go the house looked
Speaker 2: exactly like that.
Speaker 4: And then they really up the gay.
Speaker 2: I guess the whole thing is like the younger brother's gay,
Speaker 2: but no one really talks, you know whatever, so they
Speaker 2: like up to the gay.
Speaker 4: It was fun. It was funny.
Speaker 2: People were laughing and then I talked to the people
Speaker 2: that loved the movie, and like they were telling me
Speaker 2: the lines from the movie that we're exciting, but like
Speaker 2: people are flying through the air. It is they're on motorcycles.
Speaker 2: It is like breath to I couldn't believe it. I
Speaker 2: couldn't believe it. I mean, this movie came out the
Speaker 2: year you were born. Yeah, and the guy from Big Business,
Speaker 2: what a huge year for him?
Speaker 4: Eighty seven? Bam bam. What's his name? Graham? But like,
Speaker 4: what's his real name?
Speaker 3: Edward?
Speaker 4: You know, you know who I'm talking about.
Speaker 2: He's the video store guy, Edward Herman, Edward Herman Google.
Speaker 4: You know his face, yes, but you know his face.
Speaker 2: He's the dead and Gilmore girls. She doesn't watch Gilmore girls, don't.
Speaker 2: I'm not a Gilmore Big Business girl and over Moore.
Speaker 2: But he's like the rich guy. And I see his face.
Speaker 2: Of course I know exactly who this is. Yeah, he's
Speaker 2: a face guy.
Speaker 4: Guys.
Speaker 1: I just yeah, Like somebody said the other day, the
Speaker 1: name of Tom from Succession, and I go who, And
Speaker 1: then I was I was like, oh, of course, Like
Speaker 1: that man is very famous to me in my mind.
Speaker 4: I just don't know his real name. But this guy, Oh,
Speaker 4: Big Business is eighty eight My bad, but I mean
Speaker 4: it has over Cory's the movie.
Speaker 2: It has Jamie Gertz, who is famously squear A Speare
Speaker 2: Spara Square.
Speaker 4: She's sibut saras Square.
Speaker 2: I started watching the movie at home. I'm like, this
Speaker 2: is the most beautiful woman I've ever seen in my life, Like,
Speaker 2: where has she been?
Speaker 4: He was going so big?
Speaker 1: So I go gol terr immediately, And I've read all
Speaker 1: these articles about how she quit acting because I think
Speaker 1: she married a multi millionaire. Oh okay, and I think
Speaker 1: she uses the money for good. I think she's very
Speaker 1: She's going very Mackenzie Mackenzie bezos with it, Sonnang.
Speaker 2: I loved the fact and they they just made it
Speaker 2: an event like lights Neon sign, like the intro. They
Speaker 2: just fucking nailed it. It was awesome. I'm like so pumped.
Speaker 2: And then you guys, stay tuned. I got an invite
Speaker 2: to the Hugh Jackman show with Annette Bennings daughter that
Speaker 2: we were told to see. I got an invite to
Speaker 2: the party as well, So stay tuned for that theater corner. Okay,
Speaker 2: And I said, kind of sodronicus, so bloody.
Speaker 4: I didn't know Shakespeare was a fucking freak. I don't know.
Speaker 4: I've never seen I've never even heard of it. I
Speaker 4: love that. I'm going.
Speaker 2: I also went to see Waxahatchie at Brooklyn Paramount with
Speaker 2: some guy named MJ.
Speaker 4: Casey.
Speaker 2: Just lost his mind that I saw them together at
Speaker 2: Brooklyn Paramount. People were like, did you go in blind?
Speaker 2: I go, yeah, if I'm invited, I'm going, I'm fucking going.
Speaker 2: It was awesome. But I've never been to a concert
Speaker 2: where people are like sitting politely and like came to
Speaker 2: sit and people were just so calm. And I've never
Speaker 2: been to a concert where Katie from Waxahatchie she came
Speaker 2: on to sing a song with the open in her
Speaker 2: and then went back out and then did her headlining set,
Speaker 2: and I'm like, that's a cool, bitch.
Speaker 4: No one's ever done that, no.
Speaker 1: Opened for I saw her open for like it was
Speaker 1: like Ryl o' kylie or Brandy, Brandy makes sense. And
Speaker 1: then she came out and sang a song with them, Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: whoever it was, And I forgot and I feel bad,
Speaker 1: but that's so coo cool.
Speaker 2: But yeah, I guess yeah, I've really been like supporting
Speaker 2: the arts on My Stay in New York City and
Speaker 2: Tday Your Life. But Patronicus, my friend from Survival of
Speaker 2: the Thickest, played lucious dude. There's sexual assault, there's murder,
Speaker 2: people are hanging upside down getting bled out like there's
Speaker 2: supposed to be. There's nubs, there's like decapitations, there's heads
Speaker 2: and bags, and I'm like, this is Shakespeare's first play.
Speaker 1: I go, you really want to make a splash? He
Speaker 1: was like, I'm not Romeo and Juliet, bullshit. I gotta
Speaker 1: really make him make a pay attention.
Speaker 2: Who knew this? Like romantic kind of funny guy. I
Speaker 2: know he does track and like all that, but like
Speaker 2: this show is so But.
Speaker 1: Even the tragedies that you know, like Hamlet and stuff,
Speaker 1: are like sad, but I don't consider them to be
Speaker 1: like super super bloody and nasty.
Speaker 2: No, isn't that Macbeth called the Bloody Play or something?
Speaker 2: The blood Yeah something, I mean maybe, But.
Speaker 4: Like I don't think.
Speaker 1: I don't think of Macbeth like I've seen many iterations
Speaker 1: of it. I've seen it live, I've seen the movie.
Speaker 1: I don't remember being like you. But Patrick Page is
Speaker 1: in it. Who's the man who's Hades Town.
Speaker 2: He's Hades Oh the deep voice and he's in an SVU.
Speaker 4: But like he took his shirt off. He looked good.
Speaker 4: He's like, it's too fun, look good.
Speaker 2: And another wait, we just covered this episode Eden hold on,
Speaker 2: there was s V Royalty from like five episodes. I
Speaker 2: can't believe. Oh my god, I'm like, I'm overwhelmed right now.
Speaker 2: The art is overwhelming. Me Enid Graham, Enid Graham, E
Speaker 2: N I D and then Graham.
Speaker 5: Oh yeah, she's oh, she's like, she's yeah, she's in
Speaker 5: a lot of stuff.
Speaker 4: She's Sarah Hyland's mom in Hot House.
Speaker 1: Yes, she is, absolutely, she's a character actress, this lady.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: And then also and then and then there was an
Speaker 2: a hot guy and he was in a season twenty
Speaker 2: ish episode, Jesse Aaronson. He was really hot and he's
Speaker 2: an s vulm. So there's two s VIEWLM dang well
Speaker 2: three Patrick Page.
Speaker 1: Yes, lady has been in a lot of stuff though
Speaker 1: that I've seen as Mayor of Easttown, Mayor of Easttown,
Speaker 1: which tangentially, I'm watching a show called Task right now
Speaker 1: that has Mark Ruffalo. That's also very mayor of Easttown,
Speaker 1: like coded, and I'm enjoying it. While you have been
Speaker 1: taking a patron of the arts, been a patron of
Speaker 1: the arts, I too have been patronizing the arts here
Speaker 1: in Los Angeles. And I did attend the show Fat
Speaker 1: Slut here in Los Angeles. Does that mean it's Meatball's
Speaker 1: monthly show at Precinct, which I've always wanted to go
Speaker 1: to Precinct, but Trixie and Katia always got me scared
Speaker 1: because they were always talking about how hot and like
Speaker 1: body to body impact it is. And I was always like,
Speaker 1: I can't just like swing by Precinct. So the stars aligned.
Speaker 4: Well.
Speaker 1: First, I meet up with some friends to watch the
Speaker 1: finale at a friend's house.
Speaker 4: I loved the finale.
Speaker 1: Let me just tell you the way that our friend
Speaker 1: Nicole had me convinced, so spoiler alert if you haven't
Speaker 1: watched the season eighteen finale yet of drag Race, and
Speaker 1: if you want all of our drag Race opinions, we
Speaker 1: talked about them on our Patreon last week. But she
Speaker 1: had me convinced it was gonna be Niny Coco. I
Speaker 1: was like, it's got to be Mikey. Mikey's been slaying
Speaker 1: like the whole time, and she was like, no, no.
Speaker 2: No, I think it's gonna be Was she fucking with
Speaker 2: you on purpose?
Speaker 1: No, she was really convinced that she was really convinced
Speaker 1: that it doesn't really matter anymore to win drag Race,
Speaker 1: and that they want people for All Stars and that
Speaker 1: they would keep like that they want Jane for All
Speaker 1: Stars and that they want Mikey for All Stars or whatever,
Speaker 1: and that it was going to be Nini. And I
Speaker 1: was like, oh, that's an interesting take, and then of
Speaker 1: course they said my.
Speaker 2: And I was like, yeah, that's what I thought. Why
Speaker 2: did I doubt myself? But I think it's Beauzannini's performance
Speaker 2: was so good. Yes, it was because I watched the
Speaker 2: pit Stop and Bob said that that was the top
Speaker 2: finale performance of all time and that that was vm
Speaker 2: A level dancing and choreo and stuff. And do I
Speaker 2: have my own opinions? No, I'm gonna hop on Bob's.
Speaker 2: I'm taking Bob's. But then is like, who's your favorite
Speaker 2: pit stop host to Bob and it's like, well, it's
Speaker 2: not you Bianca about that?
Speaker 1: Well, so then we're watching the show's ending and we're
Speaker 1: like just getting ready to like leave for precinct and
Speaker 1: the credits are running and she goes, wait, Carol, She goes,
Speaker 1: are you is your did I just see your name
Speaker 1: in the credits?
Speaker 4: And I go, what are you even talking about?
Speaker 1: When my name was definitely in the credits, I had
Speaker 1: to like stop and watch it and like be ready
Speaker 1: with a remote to pause it. Like the credits go
Speaker 1: by so fast and like they're basically I was like,
Speaker 1: there's no way, why would my name be in the credits.
Speaker 1: And then we rewound it and her eyes don't my
Speaker 1: name was in the fucking credits.
Speaker 4: I truly have no idea why. I I guess I worked.
Speaker 1: On the butter Churning Challenge like a year and a
Speaker 1: half ago, but what ended up being on the show
Speaker 1: was like kind of really not a lot of what.
Speaker 4: I make sure you go update your IMDb.
Speaker 1: I know, Well, I just looked at my IMDb and
Speaker 1: I have full credit for Randomly, I was looking at
Speaker 1: my IMDb and I have full credit for the Winner
Speaker 1: season of All Stars, which, yeah, like I wrote one challenge.
Speaker 1: I don't really did know I was gonna get credit
Speaker 1: for the whole season, but anyway, so that was wild
Speaker 1: so then we go to Precynct and Fat Slut is like,
Speaker 1: by the way, if you live in Los Angeles and
Speaker 1: you really want to go to just a wild night
Speaker 1: of entertainment, Meatball is so funny. But this show is
Speaker 1: unfucking hinged, Like it's the craziest thing I've ever been to. Essentially,
Speaker 1: there's a lot of food based performance, but there were
Speaker 1: there were famous drag queens that came out like it
Speaker 1: was the weekend of Coachella. So a last go was there?
Speaker 1: I did Alaska did this whole justin Bieber number Dtox
Speaker 1: was there?
Speaker 4: Wow, Oh my god, I saw your photos. It's all
Speaker 4: coming back to me. Wow, Yeah I saw the Detox.
Speaker 2: This oh Detox, the person I spent fifty dollars to
Speaker 2: meet in line.
Speaker 4: Yeah. Obebe for me, Obabe, it gets better, hold on,
Speaker 4: hold on.
Speaker 1: So like because there with Drag Race Royalty too, like
Speaker 1: Nicole is such a super yes and like Nicole yeah,
Speaker 1: and Nicole's been a judge on the show, so like,
Speaker 1: but we're having fun. It's like not, it's actually like
Speaker 1: kind of the perfect amount of crowded, Like it feels
Speaker 1: like good, like you're with the people. But I didn't
Speaker 1: feel like I was crushed or anything. It was pretty
Speaker 1: easy to get. During Detox's performance, she did like I
Speaker 1: didn't know the song, but it was just like really sexy.
Speaker 1: She was like smoking a cigarette on stage and like
Speaker 1: at one point it went out and she just kind
Speaker 1: of like tapped it on her tongue.
Speaker 4: Like it was like she just was like killing it
Speaker 4: and I love her.
Speaker 1: And and Alaska had like a reveal she was in
Speaker 1: like a big puffy coat and then like took it up,
Speaker 1: was wearing like a hot barbie, like very tight and everything.
Speaker 4: And then.
Speaker 1: Then they get people from the audience to basically have
Speaker 1: like intercourse with food. Like one of our friends went
Speaker 1: up and won the contest and they were chanting shrimp
Speaker 1: pussy at her.
Speaker 4: So I'm just gonna let you guys know what happened.
Speaker 2: Wait, so what do you mean? Sex performances with food?
Speaker 2: Is their penetration like a hot dog in a butt?
Speaker 4: What is it? Yes?
Speaker 1: So the food comes out and it is all food
Speaker 1: that is like jellied like in like a mold. So
Speaker 1: there was like hot dogs, there was shrimp, there was sausages,
Speaker 1: a lot of stuff that conveniently fits into orifices and
Speaker 1: it's baked into this like jello mold, and it's like
Speaker 1: mostly guys. But then our girlfriend got up and did it,
Speaker 1: and of course she won because she was wild. But
Speaker 1: the guys, if they went up and just like danced
Speaker 1: with it, the audience started chanting hatred at them, like
Speaker 1: if they did not put something like in their butts
Speaker 1: or mouths, like people.
Speaker 4: Were like, you're not worth it. Like, I mean, it didn't.
Speaker 1: Feel like the kind of thing that was like predatory.
Speaker 1: It was like really funny and fun spirited, and like
Speaker 1: everybody was having a really fun time with it, and
Speaker 1: some and some people that went up didn't feel comfortable
Speaker 1: doing that, and some people felt very comfortable doing that.
Speaker 2: Wow, And if you don't feel comfortable, it's fine, but
Speaker 2: you will get booed.
Speaker 1: And I think, yeah, okay, yeah, this is like fat slut,
Speaker 1: Like they didn't come up here to watch you tap dance,
Speaker 1: you know, like this is like what the show.
Speaker 4: Is, so yeah, you need a fuck a food. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So it was so funny, I mean, like fun There
Speaker 1: were like poppers going around.
Speaker 4: It was wild.
Speaker 1: And then we went backstage and we were hanging out
Speaker 1: and meet Ball listens to our podh My our pod.
Speaker 1: So he was like, Oh my gosh, it's so fun
Speaker 1: to have you here. I feel like I listened to
Speaker 1: all the time. I was like, this is crazy. I'm
Speaker 1: so like, this is so fun to be here. And
Speaker 1: then I got to chat with Detox for like forty
Speaker 1: five minutes. I mean, I hung out with her for
Speaker 1: so long. So Detox lives like around Chicago. It comes
Speaker 1: to La all the time to perform. And I won't
Speaker 1: say like what verb she lives in, but she said
Speaker 1: that she lived in the chocol suburbs, and I go,
Speaker 1: oh my god, you know who else?
Speaker 5: Does?
Speaker 4: Do you remember when?
Speaker 1: Do you remember at DragCon when my friend like bought
Speaker 1: a fanny pack so that we could meet you. But
Speaker 1: then like you recognized her and she was like, oh
Speaker 1: my god, yes she I was like that's Lisa, like whatever.
Speaker 1: So I was telling her about you and then we
Speaker 1: just like chatted.
Speaker 2: Well. I also bought a crop top shirt that says litigious,
Speaker 2: and I do wear it often.
Speaker 4: That's a really good crop top.
Speaker 2: It is because it's long sleeve, thin with a hood
Speaker 2: and it's just a great.
Speaker 4: Fucking wet I'll see your ass like.
Speaker 1: It's so litigious is like one of maybe one of
Speaker 1: my favorite words, like it's such a good word. But anyway,
Speaker 1: it was just like such a I got home at
Speaker 1: four in the morning. I have two kids, Like I
Speaker 1: don't know, I don't know. It was like crazy. It
Speaker 1: was his morning to wake up with the kids. So
Speaker 1: I was like, you know, it's fine, like and I like,
Speaker 1: I wasn't even like drinking for most of it. I
Speaker 1: was just like, have a fun time. And I just
Speaker 1: was so pumped. I got to hang out with Dee
Speaker 1: talks and I love her. And I did talk to
Speaker 1: Alaska very briefly, and I as and I showed her
Speaker 1: a picture of her with Rosie when Rosie is six
Speaker 1: weeks old.
Speaker 4: And she was like, work, I'm likescute.
Speaker 1: So it was a really fun but if you live
Speaker 1: in the LA area and you like drag, there were
Speaker 1: also like a lot of really fun like go go
Speaker 1: dancers that were men and women.
Speaker 4: There were like really fun acts and then they.
Speaker 1: Get beat me Ball gets these fucking like.
Speaker 4: Legends to come on.
Speaker 1: So it's like a great great I get why people
Speaker 1: love Precinct. It's like really fun like rock and roll,
Speaker 1: like vibes for a drag bar, you know, it's not
Speaker 1: like we ho as cutey as we ho.
Speaker 4: You know, it's like dirty back. I loved it. Yeah, yes,
Speaker 4: but it was so fun fun. Oh my god, tucks.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was a last You know, it's so hard
Speaker 2: to pick your favorite queen because they're all just so good.
Speaker 2: I just am lucky that I get to say Katya
Speaker 2: because of the Russian connection. And then I, you know,
Speaker 2: people just have to accept it, not that anyone cares. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I'm having a fight with my own self. No, I
Speaker 2: have one late night, but it was an accident. This
Speaker 2: always happens to you, and I think it's gonna be
Speaker 2: one spot. And then I did walk home at about
Speaker 2: six in the morning, which is my favorite time of kay,
Speaker 2: the sun's not out, and I was alone in Washington
Speaker 2: Score Park.
Speaker 4: I was alone.
Speaker 2: Wow, I was the only person on a Sunday at
Speaker 2: six am and Washington Square Park. I was circling like
Speaker 2: I was in a zombie movie. But honestly, zombies didn't
Speaker 2: even cross my mind because I just was. I couldn't
Speaker 2: believe that I got to be there.
Speaker 1: Listen, don't ever let anyone tell you that you can't
Speaker 1: be by yourself and find alone time in New York.
Speaker 4: You obviously can't well.
Speaker 2: And then I was spinning around taking videos of myself
Speaker 2: and a guy did walk and I go, I've never
Speaker 2: seen the park like this.
Speaker 4: And he got it. He got it. But then I realized,
Speaker 4: I do you lady.
Speaker 2: Then I realized, like some people do wake up at six,
Speaker 2: like I was like making videos for instag I'm like,
Speaker 2: you guys won't believe this.
Speaker 4: And then it's like, no people do jog, you know, yeah,
Speaker 4: there were no fitness freaks out at like five point thirty.
Speaker 4: People are running on the streets.
Speaker 2: I just happened because I didn't even realize the park
Speaker 2: would be open like that. Usually when I walk home
Speaker 2: from the cellar, the park is closed, skated up, so like,
Speaker 2: I didn't even anticipate it being open. So when I
Speaker 2: saw it was open, I like shrieked. I think, like
Speaker 2: I couldn't even believe it. I didn't realize that's great,
Speaker 2: that's way cool, because yeah, my favorite thing happened.
Speaker 4: The bartenders let us stay while they closed. So love that.
Speaker 4: It's always the funnest did you see?
Speaker 1: So obviously we have to comment on the OC has
Speaker 1: been canceled. And I watched the video the several regulars
Speaker 1: from the OC that we've had on the podcast. And
Speaker 1: but Chris Maloney did this like tearful tank top monologue
Speaker 1: where his the angles really weird, like his chest is
Speaker 1: taken and he has young daughters.
Speaker 4: They could have helped him. Yeah, it's really weird.
Speaker 1: It was like he left the phone just like sliding,
Speaker 1: like leaned up against a protein shake or something.
Speaker 2: I watch it, though, I mean I think he felt it.
Speaker 2: I'm someone that does random postings like you. You know,
Speaker 2: he probably found out or I don't know. Yeah, it's
Speaker 2: a lot of jobs lost. Listen a trial by Jury LA.
Speaker 2: That shit all lasted one season.
Speaker 1: People did like O see it lasted for five years,
Speaker 1: but the reality is like that show probably would have
Speaker 1: gone gone for a lot longer if it had started
Speaker 1: fifteen years earlier. TV is just like fucking tough these days,
Speaker 1: you know.
Speaker 4: So I feel for him. But then they also announced it.
Speaker 1: I think he's already on a new show where he's
Speaker 1: playing a football coach. It's set in the NFL. It's
Speaker 1: like a show set about the NFL called The Land.
Speaker 1: So he's gonna work. He's gonna be fine. But I
Speaker 1: think and it's also like the way he's acting like
Speaker 1: this is the death of Elliott Stabler is kind of crazy.
Speaker 1: It's like you're obviously gonna come back and pop into
Speaker 1: SVU like in the finale. Yeah, like back babe. Like
Speaker 1: one comment was, Wow, they killed Kathy for nothing. I
Speaker 1: was like, oh my god, that's so fucked. But the
Speaker 1: other thing that's happening in the sv universe this week
Speaker 1: is obviously it keeps going viral like over and over again.
Speaker 1: Is this screenshot of a still from season two, Season one,
Speaker 1: episode two, A Single Life, which we covered in February
Speaker 1: of last year, where they're getting up to go do
Speaker 1: something and you can see a binder on Benson's desk
Speaker 1: that says Epstein on the spine and people are people.
Speaker 2: Keep sending me and I go, have we not been
Speaker 2: saying it's ahead of its time? I know?
Speaker 4: Have we not been saying this was known?
Speaker 1: Like I don't look up the episode, yeah, I mean
Speaker 1: what episode was flight?
Speaker 2: Oh honey, I'm in the comments I've been telling people
Speaker 2: don't yeah, because people keep bringing up the other the
Speaker 2: two parter one and I go, no, guys, like this
Speaker 2: has been in it. Twenty eleven, twenty eleven, this episode
Speaker 2: came out, which means it probably shot in twenty ten,
Speaker 2: which means at least sixteen years this show has known
Speaker 2: about it. So, and that's pre Neil Bear too, like
Speaker 2: it is wild. It's season one, right.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yep, season one.
Speaker 1: So but I mean, do you think that's a that's
Speaker 1: a for real set dresser.
Speaker 2: And let's get him on. Let's get the EPR who
Speaker 2: show ran that show. Let's get him on. We gotta
Speaker 2: find Okay, we gotta figure it out. Let's get we've
Speaker 2: never it's just dig Wolf. We'll get Dick wolf in.
Speaker 2: I'm not gonna spill the beans. He has too much
Speaker 2: riding on it. We need it.
Speaker 4: Who show ran? Let's get this person on. Yeah. I
Speaker 4: think we're gonna get to the bottom of it.
Speaker 1: Guys, Yes, we have to get to the bottom of it.
Speaker 1: Oh that's a down to Noon written by Don de Noon. Okay,
Speaker 1: get anyway, Thank you to the Thank you to the
Speaker 1: dozens of people who have sent us that meme.
Speaker 2: Obviously, so, and there is an archive on Vulture, so
Speaker 2: you guys know, there's a cinematrix. They do a telemtrix.
Speaker 2: It updates every Monday and Thursday, so you would have
Speaker 2: missed it, but they do an archive and there is
Speaker 2: one that's Marishka Maloney iced tea harder than you'd think,
Speaker 2: very hard, and go to Wednesday April twenty seconds.
Speaker 4: They tell a matrix and that well you can play,
Speaker 4: so I have. I saw.
Speaker 2: So the categories are fifty plus episodes, so show with
Speaker 2: fifty plus episodes. The next one is three plus words
Speaker 2: in title, and then one is network TV. So I
Speaker 2: right now still have one blank for Marishka. I have
Speaker 2: one blank for each of them in different categories because
Speaker 2: I don't want to use. I don't want to use.
Speaker 2: One of them is three words three plus words in
Speaker 2: the title, and I'm like, I can only think of.
Speaker 4: Fucking Maloney shows that are one word besides I know,
Speaker 4: but then I thought of one. And you're going to
Speaker 4: feel silly when you don't think of it.
Speaker 2: But I think because it took me a while in
Speaker 2: my brain, okay, but then it hit me, and I
Speaker 2: think you personally, specifically, would be disappointed if you didn't
Speaker 2: think of this.
Speaker 4: Oh I know it.
Speaker 1: Thank you Thank you for that guest, thank you, thank
Speaker 1: you for that heavy hint which I got.
Speaker 5: It wasn't even that heavy, I know, it's not, but
Speaker 5: I know myself. Yeah, okay, all right, we should we
Speaker 5: sh star, but I do want to do a reading corner.
Speaker 5: I'm sorry, it has to happen. I could say, yeah,
Speaker 5: I could take anything healthy and turn it unhealthy. I
Speaker 5: have like fifteen books around my apartment. I'm like a
Speaker 5: fucking mad woman right now. But Pony Sweat was in Brooklyn.
Speaker 5: I don't know if I told you that, Yeah, you
Speaker 5: told me, you told me so.
Speaker 2: Julia and I went, but I had to wait for
Speaker 2: her and there was a bookstore right there, and she
Speaker 2: said it was like a really popular, cool bookstore. So
Speaker 2: I ended up buying some books and she told me
Speaker 2: to buy this. I wouldn't have looked at it and
Speaker 2: hardcovers are heavy, and thank god I did. I guess
Speaker 2: Anne Hathaway just bought the rights to it. So it's
Speaker 2: like the hip book right now. It's called Yesteryear. Oh yeah,
Speaker 2: oh my god. I am like so impressed. It's so cool,
Speaker 2: it's so biting, it is so smart. I'm obsessed and
Speaker 2: I've been sitting at parks again and bars and on
Speaker 2: the my stoop.
Speaker 4: I can't operating. I'm reading it every night.
Speaker 2: I'm writing this down, but I was about to say,
Speaker 2: I think you would like it and maybe we can
Speaker 2: talk about it on the Patreon because I don't want
Speaker 2: to do official book club stuff. But this is about
Speaker 2: a trad wife influencer, yes, who wakes up and it's
Speaker 2: eighteen fifty five.
Speaker 1: Okay, yes your year book, putting it in my notes
Speaker 1: on my phone, will purchase and.
Speaker 4: Thank god someone told me to get this. I don't.
Speaker 2: I don't because you know, I'm still in my gay
Speaker 2: universe at the moment.
Speaker 4: But this is like.
Speaker 2: I am, like, I'm so impressed with this, and this
Speaker 2: is her first novel and I just think it's such
Speaker 2: biting satire. And I read it at the bar called
Speaker 2: Swift for Jonathan Swift, and that's that's the piece, Like
Speaker 2: his piece is like one of his things is how
Speaker 2: I learned satire in high school? Oh right, And so
Speaker 2: like I just couldn't believe I got to read this
Speaker 2: in that bar with a happy hourginis.
Speaker 4: But I don't know, I'm just blown a way. She
Speaker 4: really like, again.
Speaker 2: I'm new to reading, so it's like, I don't know
Speaker 2: if you can take me at my word of what.
Speaker 1: You're not just because you don't read all the time
Speaker 1: doesn't mean you're like, yeah, but I'm gonna.
Speaker 2: I'm but Ashley Hamilton, who's like a book girl, she
Speaker 2: said she was like she didn't see certain things coming.
Speaker 4: And I'm not even very up but like, I'm gonna
Speaker 4: finish it, but I'm.
Speaker 1: Gonna read it because I really need a reason to
Speaker 1: get into a book. I really need you're going to
Speaker 1: get into it right away. There are lines in there
Speaker 1: that I'm like, holy shit, it is like everything is
Speaker 1: so layered. It's like I can't even believe it. I
Speaker 1: really can't believe it.
Speaker 2: So I hope we can connect about it all right,
Speaker 2: all right, Casey, maybe you can get to it too.
Speaker 3: Well.
Speaker 2: I'm finishing this by Sunday because I'm gonna give it
Speaker 2: to Marsha like I think I'm gonna because I want
Speaker 2: everyone to read it so then I can talk about
Speaker 2: it with all the girls, all my smart girls.
Speaker 4: Look at this. It's happening. That's really exciting.
Speaker 2: So I have a name drop well who took me
Speaker 2: to Waxahatchie and MJ was Caleb the night.
Speaker 4: That's what I assumed because he's like good friends with.
Speaker 2: Her, right with our best friends, and so like uh,
Speaker 2: that was the night before the Devil War's product premiere,
Speaker 2: so his outfit was on the chair.
Speaker 1: So I was like, Okay, did you see I mean
Speaker 1: you probably did, But like there's this one guy that
Speaker 1: I don't know who he is, but he looks like
Speaker 1: he's like a fashion influencer. And he dressed as Andy
Speaker 1: pre makeover, like the cerulean sweater and like a collared
Speaker 1: shirt at the premiere, but he wore pants.
Speaker 4: That kind of looked like her skirt.
Speaker 1: Like I'm like really loving what people are doing at
Speaker 1: that premiere.
Speaker 2: God, I mean, there's so much going on in the
Speaker 2: world we didn't even talk about, like Sabrina Carpenter and Madonna,
Speaker 2: Like I didn't even talk about Wes and Amanda at
Speaker 2: the Yankees game. I mean, the world is giving us
Speaker 2: a lot. There's a lot freaking happening. But listen.
Speaker 1: If you want more of us chatting, you can get
Speaker 1: that on our Patreon, which is Patreon dot slash.
Speaker 4: That's Messed Up.
Speaker 1: We have Martha Kelly SVU, super fan and Euphoria star
Speaker 1: and comedian. We love her, so tune into the patreon
Speaker 1: for that and also that's messed Up.
Speaker 4: Live dot Com has our merch link.
Speaker 1: We've got our Louise Louis Lewis Louise Lewis Lewis t
Speaker 1: shirt on sale and a couple of other things, so
Speaker 1: you can grab something over there for Mother's Day or
Speaker 1: whatever's coming up.
Speaker 2: And I'm gonna be in Salt Lake City, Los Angeles,
Speaker 2: Las Vegas, La Joya, Peetown, Cleveland, I don't know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so yeah, join us in various other places besides here,
Speaker 1: and uh, let's get started. Got a great episode, all right?
Speaker 1: Today we are doing the episode Recall, Season eight, episode three.
Speaker 1: This came out in October of two thousand and six.
Speaker 1: I remember it, but this is another one that I've seen.
Speaker 1: But I was like the ending. I kind of needed
Speaker 1: reminders about the end it Like as it went on,
Speaker 1: I go, oh, yeah, that's what's gonna happen. Like there
Speaker 1: were points of it where I was like, how does
Speaker 1: this end?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I had no idea what was happening until I
Speaker 2: saw one of the characters and then yeah, immediately what
Speaker 2: was happening? But well, yeah, there's a lot of there's
Speaker 2: a lot of fun in it. But I keep thinking
Speaker 2: about total recall and then I realized I don't even
Speaker 2: know what Total Recall is. So then I googled it
Speaker 2: and I was like, oh, Sharon Stone, okay, Arnold Schwortznagger.
Speaker 2: I didn't know what this Total seen this, I don't know.
Speaker 2: I've seen it when I was a kid. I actually
Speaker 2: saw it a lot. There is a woman with three
Speaker 2: boobs in it, and that is obviously impressibly.
Speaker 4: I know about the three book. Yeah, I've heard of
Speaker 4: the three boob woman.
Speaker 1: And isn't there a scene Casey in a Total Recall
Speaker 1: where somebody can't breathe, like because like their helmet.
Speaker 4: Least is something.
Speaker 1: There's like somebody gets put into an area where there's
Speaker 1: no oxygen, And to me, it's like the most scary
Speaker 1: scene of like to me, what it would be like
Speaker 1: if you were in space and you couldn't breathe or something.
Speaker 1: It's like every somebody goes like nuts, they can't breathe.
Speaker 1: But that is they're on Mars or were are they?
Speaker 1: They're on like another yeah, the Virtual Vacation and Mar. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't remember the suffocating helmets.
Speaker 4: Yeah, in that movie. It might be fucking crazy.
Speaker 1: You should watch it. It's crazy Total Recalls crazy.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 2: I was having like thoughts about how I do have
Speaker 2: like dreams of being in action movies and doing cool stuff.
Speaker 2: And then I was thinking, if they did have to
Speaker 2: do a cast of my face, I would have to
Speaker 2: turn down the role. Like I don't think I could
Speaker 2: do a plaster of my face, Like I really don't
Speaker 2: think i'd be able to do it. Do you think
Speaker 2: about that? Would you be able to plaster your face?
Speaker 2: I think I could do it. I think I would
Speaker 2: be really uncomfortable.
Speaker 1: But I think if it was like you, we need
Speaker 1: this so that we can, you know, for the multimillion
Speaker 1: dollar role that you are in this movie, I think
Speaker 1: I would do it.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I think I'd have to go into full I don't know,
Speaker 2: i'd have to go to the guy that Jim Carrey
Speaker 2: used for or.
Speaker 1: Just like do it to me lying down like so
Speaker 1: I can just like fall asleep or something like.
Speaker 4: I don't know. I would try to like completely zone
Speaker 4: out and disassociate. Well, no, I know all the things
Speaker 4: I would try to do.
Speaker 2: I would also to do those things I don't think
Speaker 2: i'd be able to, Like I don't like just thinking
Speaker 2: about it right now, like just a straw, like just
Speaker 2: oh yeah for the breathing. Yeah, to the breathings all
Speaker 2: I'm thinking about. Okay, to we get started. So recall
Speaker 2: this is season eight, just to get everybody to rip
Speaker 2: the band aid off. It's a back season, Okay, everybody,
Speaker 2: it's a back episode.
Speaker 1: This woman, the way that she was only in six
Speaker 1: episodes and left such a like fucking impression on everybody
Speaker 1: is so well.
Speaker 2: She was making moves on Stabler, kissing around, breaking rules
Speaker 2: thinking she knows better, but she has trauma.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and this is her second episode, so we've only
Speaker 1: worked with her in one other episode, and I think
Speaker 1: it was like, I think it's like the Turner syndrome
Speaker 1: episode where like the girl looks really.
Speaker 4: Young but she's not or whatever.
Speaker 1: But yes, I think that, Yeah, I think that's the
Speaker 1: first one. And so we opened a night Sabler and
Speaker 1: Beck are in hot pursuit of a behoodied man and
Speaker 1: he's going for the river. They're duck in behind cars.
Speaker 1: It's action. Stabler stops back from getting hit by a
Speaker 1: bus and then ultimately they lose the guy. Stabler lets
Speaker 1: out this really frustrated growl. He's like rah, like he's mad,
Speaker 1: and then cut to CSU Tech Ryan o'healer and friend
Speaker 1: of the pod. Mike Doyle shows up goes heard you
Speaker 1: too ran a marathon and Beck's like yeah, and the
Speaker 1: purp one the crime scene is blocks away, but Stabler
Speaker 1: wants this guy to check for prints on the side
Speaker 1: of two cars that he saw the purp crouch down
Speaker 1: between them and he was not wearing gloves. So the
Speaker 1: uniform cop shows up and is like, yeah, the victims
Speaker 1: at the hospital, she's moving on her own steam. I
Speaker 1: had never heard that phrase before, so I did google it,
Speaker 1: and it means doing something independently without any help, moving
Speaker 1: on your own steam. I've never heard that before, So
Speaker 1: now you can bank that everybody into your.
Speaker 4: Idioms or whatever. I don't know where it comes who
Speaker 4: says it, but.
Speaker 1: And the cop says the rape kid is done. They're
Speaker 1: just checking for other injuries, and Beck is like, what
Speaker 1: did he do to her? And then we cut to that.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's like he did what most of you know.
Speaker 1: You've only been in this unit for like a week,
Speaker 1: so you're going to get more of these. We cut
Speaker 1: to the hospital curtain being pulled back to reveal Nicki,
Speaker 1: the victim, sitting there, and she looks really bad, like
Speaker 1: multiple facial lacerations, big black Eye. It's tough, like she's
Speaker 1: already been stitched up in a few places.
Speaker 4: And Nicki is played by Lily Robb, who I.
Speaker 1: Did sit next to at gymnastics one time, but did
Speaker 1: not find the right moment to bring up my SVU podcast.
Speaker 1: She has done all three franchises, and it seems like
Speaker 1: Criminal Intent and SVU were some of her first TV credits.
Speaker 1: She is like a regular in the American Horror Story Universe,
Speaker 1: and she has three children with Hamish link Later, who
Speaker 1: I saw do Shakespeare in the Park and she's done
Speaker 1: a ton of Shakespeare. They're like a theater power couple
Speaker 1: of these two. And he was in the episode of
Speaker 1: Manhattan Vigil where he like loses his son on the
Speaker 1: train because he's like sort of not paying attention. And
Speaker 1: what I didn't realize is that Lily Rob's mom is
Speaker 1: Jill Clayburg, who is kind of iconic and you might
Speaker 1: a lot of you might know her from being Kristen
Speaker 1: Wiggs's mom and Bridesmaids, and she actually she actually made
Speaker 1: that movie and then died before Bridessmaids came out. She
Speaker 1: passed away in twenty ten, so she died before that
Speaker 1: movie like got as big as it did. So I
Speaker 1: didn't know that Lily rob was like, you know, from
Speaker 1: this Nepo family and her dad is a playwright who
Speaker 1: wrote Hurley.
Speaker 4: Burley and like other well known plays.
Speaker 1: So Stabler and Beck introduced themselves to Nikki and she
Speaker 1: just immediately starts crying like why me, why did he
Speaker 1: do this to me? And Stabler's like, we're going to
Speaker 1: take care of you, and you know, Stabler immediately goes
Speaker 1: into like comforting mode, like we're gonna get you some
Speaker 1: clothes first, and Beck like still can't handle SPU, like
Speaker 1: she does not know how to talk to victims, and
Speaker 1: like that's gonna be made more apparent as we go.
Speaker 1: So at the precinct now after the credits, Munch is
Speaker 1: calling the place a dump. Well he's trying to find
Speaker 1: Nikiya ginger Ale and he's like, how bad is it?
Speaker 1: And Stabler starts going breaking it down in acronyms, going
Speaker 1: you know, M to P, P to V, and Beck
Speaker 1: needs help. She doesn't get it, and he's like, you know,
Speaker 1: mouth to penis, penis of vagina. I've never heard them
Speaker 1: describe an assault like that before or since.
Speaker 4: And I don't love it. It reminds me of like
Speaker 4: the way we used to talk in college about stuff.
Speaker 1: And Beck wants to know if they usually catch these guys,
Speaker 1: and Stabler goes, well, you know, most rapes, the victim
Speaker 1: knows their attacker. And then like when it comes to cereals,
Speaker 1: there were eleven in Manhattan last year. We caught seven
Speaker 1: of them to by accident with cold DNA hits on
Speaker 1: guys already in the system, so they're already you could
Speaker 1: tell they're going to start playing with the DNA of
Speaker 1: it all, Like this episode came out in two thousand
Speaker 1: and six. NA still it feels fresh, like a fresh technology,
Speaker 1: and they have to talk to Nicki while the details
Speaker 1: are still fresh in her mind. But Beck, you can feel,
Speaker 1: is kind of trying to get out of it. She's like,
Speaker 1: why don't I hit the computer and see if this
Speaker 1: guy's m O matches others in the system.
Speaker 4: So then we're talking.
Speaker 1: Nicki's talking to Stabler describing her attack, like this guy
Speaker 1: forced her to perform oral sex, slammed her against a wall,
Speaker 1: he assaulted her from behind, and then wiped her down
Speaker 1: with wet naps the kind that have alcohol in them,
Speaker 1: and finn Is telling Kragan, well, we didn't find anything
Speaker 1: at the crime scene, like none of the wet naps,
Speaker 1: no fluids, like nothing, and Nicki goes, he was older,
Speaker 1: like in his forties. She would maybe just witch rude.
Speaker 1: She could maybe describe him to an artist. But it
Speaker 1: was dark and she saw something on his hand. It
Speaker 1: was a scar. It looked like a capital L, but
Speaker 1: with the bottom line going the other way. So now
Speaker 1: Craigan is Stabler are talking, and Craigan's like, shut the door,
Speaker 1: which never good. It's usually not good when you're usually
Speaker 1: getting in trouble. But JK, it's just wants to talk
Speaker 1: shit about back and find out how she's doing. So
Speaker 1: Stabler's like, oh, she's doing great, Like I hear she's
Speaker 1: a real pro. And Craigan's like, maybe too much of
Speaker 1: a pro. I hear her CEO and warrants dumped her
Speaker 1: for being over zealous. Most warrant detectives bring in eight
Speaker 1: guys a month. She was bringing in twelve thirteen. And
Speaker 1: Stabler's like, yeah, okay, that sounds like talent to me.
Speaker 1: And Craigan argues like, yeah, roughing up civilians isn't talent,
Speaker 1: and Stabler's like, this is the first time anybody said
Speaker 1: that to Stabler. I guess the king of roughing up civilians.
Speaker 1: And Craigan just wants Stabler to keep an eye on Beck.
Speaker 1: So she knocks, of course, right at that moment, and
Speaker 1: comes in with a hit from O'Halleran that one of
Speaker 1: the prints on the Jaguar where the guy was crouching
Speaker 1: down hiding from them during the chase, belongs to a
Speaker 1: guy named Barry Cole thirty two. He did five years
Speaker 1: at Fishkill for a pushin robbery that became an assault,
Speaker 1: and Craigan's like, go get him.
Speaker 4: So in the car, Beck is using like.
Speaker 1: A Pom pilot okay, and it has maps on it,
Speaker 1: and Stabler is like, it's like he's looking at a
Speaker 1: Genie lamp. He can't believe what he's seeing. He's like,
Speaker 1: he goes, does the city pay for that? And she goes, no,
Speaker 1: I pay for it, and it's worth every penny, and
Speaker 1: she basically explains a smartphone to him. He goes, it's
Speaker 1: got email, my contacts, the internet, maps, you name it.
Speaker 1: You should get one, and Stabler's like no, he's obviously
Speaker 1: a luddite. He's like, no, my kids had to help
Speaker 1: me program speed dial on my cell phone, so just
Speaker 1: hilarious because speed dial is not even really a thing.
Speaker 1: And he asks her, He's like, what's that accent from
Speaker 1: European something? And she goes, I was born in Denmark.
Speaker 1: I came to the States after I got married, And
Speaker 1: I kind of wonder how she.
Speaker 4: Became a detective so quickly. But maybe it's like not
Speaker 4: that hard.
Speaker 1: But I was looking up Beck's background on the Wikipedia
Speaker 1: of the SVU Wikipedia and one of the trivia bits
Speaker 1: about her is. Fan reception towards Beck was largely negative,
Speaker 1: mostly due to Beck and Stabler's romantic tension compared to
Speaker 1: Benson and Stablers, as well as her character being what
Speaker 1: fans called a poor replacement to Benson. Nielsen later went
Speaker 1: on to say she would never return to SVU due
Speaker 1: to the poor reception towards her character.
Speaker 4: So we ruined this lady's life after.
Speaker 2: Six episodes now, but she at least knows that she's hated.
Speaker 1: Yeah for Beck, Yeah, because then I remember that last
Speaker 1: thing I saw. The next thing I saw Connie Nielsen
Speaker 1: in was Wonder Woman, where she plays like Wonder Woman's
Speaker 1: like mom or grandma or like in the woman the
Speaker 1: beautiful Amazonian tribe of women or whatever, and that was
Speaker 1: a pretty big role for her. But I don't know
Speaker 1: what else she's doing anyway, She tells the whole story.
Speaker 1: She met her American husband in Germany when he was
Speaker 1: stationed there she was studying. She asks about Benson, what
Speaker 1: happened with your partner? He tells her she got pulled
Speaker 1: in for an undercovered job. Oh, how long were you
Speaker 1: guys together? Seven years? How long were you in Warrens
Speaker 1: three and a half years? Just had enough, he asks.
Speaker 1: He's obviously fishing for information, and then she's like, oh,
Speaker 1: we're here, so you know, Google Map saves them in
Speaker 1: the nick of time. Upstairs, Beck is banging on the
Speaker 1: door of this apartment. A woman is yelling, who is it.
Speaker 4: I'm coming. I just need to put something on, you know,
Speaker 4: classic like stalling.
Speaker 2: But it's also like what if she was topless at home,
Speaker 2: Like it's not that crazy to be like, give me
Speaker 2: a second, I was not expecting you let me put
Speaker 2: on a shirt.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I think that they were looking.
Speaker 1: She makes a stabler look under the door, because I
Speaker 1: think if someone's running back and forth, it's probably a
Speaker 1: little bit more of a scramble than throwing on a tank, right, Like,
Speaker 1: I think that's what her the vibe was. But this
Speaker 1: woman when she opens the door is a classic lawed
Speaker 1: order character. Immediately, what do you want? We want this guy?
Speaker 1: He's not here. You can look around, but make it quick.
Speaker 1: I got work in the morning. Also, her name is
Speaker 1: Ophelia Jones, which is hilarious. It's like from the name
Speaker 1: Book of Persephone James or whatever whatever.
Speaker 4: I forgot what Persephonie's last name is. I think it's James.
Speaker 4: But Beck goes in and feels the bed.
Speaker 1: The bed is warm, and she's like, no, he was here, Ophelia,
Speaker 1: you're lying to me. And then they spot this guy
Speaker 1: on the fire escape.
Speaker 4: He's running. Stabler chases him down.
Speaker 1: Beck takes the front and as the guy runs towards her,
Speaker 1: she's around a corner. She waits in the shadows with
Speaker 1: an impact baton and then pulls like a Jeff Galulian,
Speaker 1: smacks him in the knees and brings him right down,
Speaker 1: and they arrest him for rape, and he's like, rape,
Speaker 1: We didn't rape anyone. And Stabler's like an impact baton, Huh,
Speaker 1: that's obviously how I know what it's called, Guys, I
Speaker 1: did not know it was called an impact baton. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Stabler goes impact baton, huh, and she goes, you know,
Speaker 1: you should lose the sports jacket and the shoes. It
Speaker 1: slows you down, And it is true, Like, why are
Speaker 1: you wearing a like for when you're going to if
Speaker 1: you're going to court? Yeah, I get the jacket, but like,
Speaker 1: if you know you're gonna go to a sub suspects
Speaker 1: house where you very well might have to like pull
Speaker 1: your weapon or chase someone, we don't need the sport coat.
Speaker 1: We don't need the Joseph Abank happening over there, Stabler.
Speaker 1: But they're definitely building a case that Beck like has
Speaker 1: this baton. Maybe she's too violent, maybe she's too forceful whatever,
Speaker 1: So sos this guy, I know, so is Stabler?
Speaker 4: Is that what you mean? Yeah? Yeah, he just uses
Speaker 4: his fists.
Speaker 1: So now top of that two, they're bringing this guy
Speaker 1: into the sixteenth Precinct and he is not talking to them.
Speaker 1: He's like, you should have brought me to the hospital.
Speaker 1: He's limping as Beck takes him in to get booked.
Speaker 1: O'Halloran wants a moment with Stabler, and he's like he
Speaker 1: reveals that he told beck I wasn't done processing the Prince,
Speaker 1: like the Jaguar was a rental and Barry Cole works
Speaker 1: at the rental place. Like feels like something we could
Speaker 1: have easily looked into before we knocked on this man's
Speaker 1: home and then like hobbled him that it's a rental
Speaker 1: car and he works at Hurts, you know what I mean?
Speaker 1: Like that doesn't feel like that takes too much beat
Speaker 1: boop beep bopping on the computer. And also the prints
Speaker 1: were on the driver's side, like the passenger side door,
Speaker 1: and this guy was crouching between on the driver's side.
Speaker 1: And also it's just like two prints, whereas this guy
Speaker 1: like he found a set of ten clear prints of
Speaker 1: a perp that would like be crouching down and basically
Speaker 1: using his two hands to balance himself in between the
Speaker 1: two cars. And the Princes aren't aphis, but they are
Speaker 1: in the state system. They belong to Martin Trenway, who
Speaker 1: was fingerprinted back in nineteen seventy seven when Dunt Dunn
Speaker 1: he became an assistant District attorney in Manhattan. So oh,
Speaker 1: how so we got an inside job going on here
Speaker 1: or something you know, O'Halloran said, I called back back
Speaker 1: back to tell her, but you know, Barry Cole has
Speaker 1: a record, so she thought he looked good for it.
Speaker 1: So you know, now we're getting the full picture of
Speaker 1: Beck being quote unquote over zealous, just going for this
Speaker 1: guy because he has a record. Saylor tells Beck cut
Speaker 1: Cole loose. She's like why, and he's like, bitch, you
Speaker 1: know why, Like he wasn't the only lead. If you
Speaker 1: would listen to O'Halloran, we wouldn't have had spent our
Speaker 1: entire night chasing our tails looking for this guy and
Speaker 1: caught him loose. Before Craigan finds out, he says, so
Speaker 1: now we're at the law offices of Martin Trunway and
Speaker 1: he is played by Charles Shaughnessy aka Missed the Chef
Speaker 1: Field from the Nanny.
Speaker 4: I mean, this is the only other thing I've ever seen.
Speaker 2: Him in, right, Like, yeah, I don't you know him
Speaker 2: from other stuff?
Speaker 1: He and other stuff, Like I looked him up and
Speaker 1: he's been he's been doing other stuff, but just.
Speaker 4: Not to me, like not anything else. The man works,
Speaker 4: but he's like, to me, he's mister Sheffield and I'm
Speaker 4: not even a huge Nanny head.
Speaker 2: But oh I am. I know that whole show was
Speaker 2: cast perfectly. The wardrobe of the everything that show is
Speaker 2: so funny. It holds up. It's like awesome, yeah.
Speaker 4: And there will they won't they was? It was all awesome.
Speaker 4: I love that.
Speaker 2: I'm glad to see him here. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I
Speaker 2: love it. And yeah, there's no way he's good news.
Speaker 2: I mean, look at him. He looks too rich. He's
Speaker 2: like too rich looking.
Speaker 1: And yeah, I feel like we're not bringing in mister
Speaker 1: Sheffield from The Nanny to be a red herring, right,
Speaker 1: So they ask him about the car. They tell him
Speaker 1: it was involved in a robbery and he's like, oh,
Speaker 1: it was parked under the FDR And he's like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: I rented the car to go to Jersey for a deposition.
Speaker 1: I've got a toll receipt from the Holland Tunnel. And
Speaker 1: they're like, no, that's okay.
Speaker 4: We don't you know.
Speaker 1: They're trying to lull him into like sort of a
Speaker 1: false sets of confidence at the beginning and then stabler.
Speaker 2: But also to just have that like I don't remember
Speaker 2: what I'm doing, Like I think it's suspicious to have
Speaker 2: these things and remember. But maybe people aren't smoking weed
Speaker 2: like me. But if someone asked, I'd be like, let
Speaker 2: me check, or like, what was that I think I
Speaker 2: did this? Like I wouldn't immediately be like I went
Speaker 2: to the hall tunnel and I kept the receipt.
Speaker 1: When we do when we do intros for the podcast,
Speaker 1: I have to literally go into my calendar from two
Speaker 1: days earlier and go, what did I do this past weekend?
Speaker 1: Like I don't remember what I did any day. If
Speaker 1: you don't let me at my Google calendar, I'm going
Speaker 1: down for murder. Like if you don't like I just
Speaker 1: I don't know what I'm doing without my fucking shit,
Speaker 1: So well, I don't know.
Speaker 2: It's easy for me because I'm on a loop of
Speaker 2: five things, so easy for me to com prepare.
Speaker 1: I was reading, I was at Seoul, I was doing
Speaker 1: a spot, and I like heated.
Speaker 4: Rivalry, Like that's it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, once in a while there might be something else
Speaker 2: coming through, but not really. I I haven't even really
Speaker 2: eaten anything kind of extraordinary.
Speaker 4: What do you when? Are they going to release the
Speaker 4: next season?
Speaker 2: April twenty twenty seven, Oh so we've got a year. Okay,
Speaker 2: it's gonna be like Game of throne situation. Well yeah,
Speaker 2: but it's nice because then you'll get like they're yearning
Speaker 2: for each other and have to wait, so like we
Speaker 2: should all be waiting.
Speaker 4: It's like, I yuess, that makes sense. That makes sense.
Speaker 2: But they're also so busy. They're casting, they just finished writing.
Speaker 2: I think they'll start in July or August, like I
Speaker 2: don't know, but I kind of hate seeing pre set
Speaker 2: photos like it's honestly a pet peeve because they just,
Speaker 2: like some of Hudson in this movie he's filming in Toronto,
Speaker 2: were released, and I get it's like press and fun,
Speaker 2: but I hate it. I like to be surprised that
Speaker 2: the movies even Devil War's product when it was outfits
Speaker 2: before they came out. Any I don't like paparazzi of
Speaker 2: being on set. No yeah, you disagree your shock No no,
Speaker 2: no no no, I's a hot take, there's no yeah.
Speaker 4: I don't have a feeling on it either way.
Speaker 1: I guess most of the time, like when I see
Speaker 1: a set photo, it's just somebody standing in like a
Speaker 1: weird like with like a coat on, like outside their trailer,
Speaker 1: and so it's not giving anything away to me.
Speaker 4: But I know what you're saying.
Speaker 1: Right before they leave talking to this Trendway guy, sablor
Speaker 1: clock's a wrist injury. The guy's got like a brace
Speaker 1: on or whatever, and he goes, Oh, I busted my
Speaker 1: wrist playing baseball, or I'm sorry playing basketball. I shouldn't
Speaker 1: have set a pick against my team or whatever. So lol,
Speaker 1: we are men, we like sports.
Speaker 4: Ha ha. Nobody's done anything wrong to you.
Speaker 1: Later, Beck says, typical trial lawyer, He's got an answer
Speaker 1: for everything. And Stabler wants to know if he's got
Speaker 1: a backwards l scar underneath that wrisk brace. So beck
Speaker 1: Beck brings up the composite on her Pom pilot. Another
Speaker 1: good reason to have a Pom Pilot. And it's the
Speaker 1: basically the sketch that the artist did with Nikki West.
Speaker 4: And it looks a lot.
Speaker 1: Like mister Sheffield, but unfortunately it looks a lot like
Speaker 1: ten thousand other white guys in the city. Craigan points
Speaker 1: out that they're like as they're gathered around the corkboard,
Speaker 1: but ten thousand other white guys didn't leave their prints
Speaker 1: on that. Jag Novak is there informing them that Trendway
Speaker 1: is one of the biggest personal injury attorneys in town.
Speaker 1: So this guy would form being like in eighty A
Speaker 1: to being like give me the money and just going
Speaker 1: into personal injury law. And if we accuse him, we
Speaker 1: got to have our ducks in a row. Huang is
Speaker 1: there too. He wants the personal lowdown on Trendway. He's
Speaker 1: fifty four, so he's older than forties.
Speaker 4: He's fifty four.
Speaker 1: He grew up in Queens, which explains his subtle British accent.
Speaker 1: Like this actor is British and you can hear his accent.
Speaker 1: I feel the whole time. So it is hilarious to
Speaker 1: me that they cast this man that's British and he's
Speaker 1: supposed to have grown up in Queens. But he went
Speaker 1: to Cornell, then he went to Duke for law school.
Speaker 1: He's been married thirty years, two teen sons. Lives in Stanford, Connecticut,
Speaker 1: where I have spent time of my life living, and
Speaker 1: keeps a piet A tear in New York, a block
Speaker 1: from Gracie Mansion. And he's got no record. But Beck
Speaker 1: is arguing he's a lawyer. He knows how to hide evidence,
Speaker 1: like just like the Purp and Craigan is like Craigan
Speaker 1: says a wild thing. He goes, middle aged men just
Speaker 1: don't suddenly become rapists out of the blue, and it's like, yes,
Speaker 1: they do all the time, Like no, they.
Speaker 2: Just said they probably were peeping time, they were grabby, grabby,
Speaker 2: they were holdy holdies, something's going on.
Speaker 1: I just think that it's possible for a guy to
Speaker 1: become a rapist, like if he gets rejected enough or
Speaker 1: he gets angry enough, Like, yes, he probably you're right,
Speaker 1: has like other behaviors, but they're not necessarily stuff that
Speaker 1: he might have gotten busted for legally. So it's just
Speaker 1: wild for Craigan to be like, this doesn't happen out
Speaker 1: of nowhere, and Huang's like, well, there are rare cases.
Speaker 1: High functioning men like Trendway sometimes have a history of
Speaker 1: psychosexual problems. And Novak's like, I want to put him
Speaker 1: in a lineup, but Stabler goes, that's risky. The sketch
Speaker 1: looks like him, sure, but Nicki didn't even get a
Speaker 1: good look at him, like she might not get the right.
Speaker 4: Guy, but she did see the scar.
Speaker 1: And then the next scene is something I have no
Speaker 1: memory of and is truly wild. Nicki walks in for
Speaker 1: a lineup and It is just a bunch of numbered
Speaker 1: glory holes with men's hands sticking out of them. It
Speaker 1: is the crazy I have never seen this. They have
Speaker 1: never done this another time. They have never had another
Speaker 1: like body part only lineup and it looks crazy and
Speaker 1: they like they're just He's telling like, these perps are
Speaker 1: all behind these wooden walls with their fists through the hole,
Speaker 1: and they're like, okay, everybody.
Speaker 4: Make a fist.
Speaker 1: Do this, do that, Like they're basically just doing a
Speaker 1: hand hand ography and so yeah, it just looks like
Speaker 1: a row of thing from Adam's family all in a lineup,
Speaker 1: and Stabler asks all the men to make a fist,
Speaker 1: and then Nikki checks out all these disembodied fists and
Speaker 1: she picks one. So in cement room, bars Trenway can't
Speaker 1: believe he's getting arrested because of his scar. Many other
Speaker 1: people might have one just like it, and Beck asks like, well,
Speaker 1: where did the where did you get the scar? And
Speaker 1: he explains tendon transfer surgery from when he broke his wrist,
Speaker 1: and Stable reminds him, you know, I want to remind
Speaker 1: you you've got the right to an attorney, and he goes,
Speaker 1: I am an attorney. I know my rights. I didn't
Speaker 1: do anything. And they're like, well, where were you and
Speaker 1: like last night at eleven o'clock and he goes, I
Speaker 1: was working late the office. I left around midnight checked
Speaker 1: the security logs and it's like, oh, we already did, honey,
Speaker 1: And we checked with the guard and he said you
Speaker 1: left it nine to forty five and told him not
Speaker 1: to bother entering it into the book. That's pretty sketchy,
Speaker 1: and Trenway goes, I stepped out to grab a byte again,
Speaker 1: why would you tell the security guard I stepped out
Speaker 1: to grab a bite.
Speaker 4: Don't put me down on the log.
Speaker 1: Security guard says, you were gone until about eleven funny
Speaker 1: because that's when the rape and the chase took place.
Speaker 1: And then they bring up the prints on the side
Speaker 1: of the Jaguar and he says, I dropped my briefcase
Speaker 1: when I got back from New Jersey.
Speaker 4: I must have touched the car.
Speaker 1: And Beck puts both her hands on his chests like
Speaker 1: with her fingers splait out the way that the fingerprints
Speaker 1: look and she goes, not like this, you didn't You're
Speaker 1: going to arraignment, and you know, he looks not that scared.
Speaker 1: They're walking out outside of the courthouse. Beck and Stabler
Speaker 1: are in a walk and talk with Novak. Trendway only
Speaker 1: got twenty five thousand dollars bail, he's got high up friends,
Speaker 1: no prior's.
Speaker 4: Beck is pissed.
Speaker 1: She sees a bunch of reporters gathered around and is like, hey, fellas,
Speaker 1: you want a story, I got a story, and she
Speaker 1: sticks them all on Trenway. She's like, see that guy
Speaker 1: over there, that's Trendway. He got he's on like been
Speaker 1: arrested for rape or whatever. So he's just leaving the courthouse.
Speaker 1: They all run over and they surround him like vultures.
Speaker 1: It's kind of fun, and Trendway goes, oh, this is
Speaker 1: a case of mistaken identity.
Speaker 4: Blah blah blah.
Speaker 1: So now with the precinct, Stabler has a newspaper with
Speaker 1: Treadway on the cover.
Speaker 4: So Beck's thing worked very quickly. He's already on the cover.
Speaker 4: He's complimenting Beck on him.
Speaker 2: It's like you can't be like, oh, you need to
Speaker 2: follow the rules, you're not following the rules and then
Speaker 2: be like, oh, hell yeah, I'm glad he didn't follow
Speaker 2: the rules. Yeah, thanks for doing something silly, silly you know, it's.
Speaker 1: Like he's complimenting her on the hand lineup as well.
Speaker 1: He's like, that was a good idea, good idea thinking
Speaker 1: about doing a fucking weird hand glory hole. And Beck's
Speaker 1: like yeah, but he's right, like others could have that scar.
Speaker 1: It's not like a deal. It's not like it's a
Speaker 1: specific tattoo or something. Just then Finn walks in with
Speaker 1: this woman and introduces her to Beck, and the woman
Speaker 1: is named Heather Stark, and she's like, I just want
Speaker 1: to thank you to Beck. Beck doesn't even like look
Speaker 1: this woman in the eye. She just goes, no need
Speaker 1: for thanks, I'm just doing my job and starts walking away.
Speaker 1: It's like she didn't Finn is not bringing her back
Speaker 1: into the squad room for a thank you. There's obviously
Speaker 1: another reason you're being a dumb bitch. But Heather obviously
Speaker 1: has more to say. So Stabler steps in to be like, Hi,
Speaker 1: what can I help you with? So now we're in
Speaker 1: wood room blinds getting Heather's story.
Speaker 2: She is yeah, like Connie Nielsen like stopping surprise. We
Speaker 2: hate her like she's supposed to be hateable.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I'm sorry, Like I just they didn't teach
Speaker 1: you anything in Warrens about being nice to a victim.
Speaker 4: I don't know.
Speaker 1: But we're in woodroom Blinds get in Heather's story and
Speaker 1: she's played by one of my faves, Robin Weigert, who
Speaker 1: was also in season seventeen Depravity Standard, which we've already covered.
Speaker 1: She's like Calamity Jane in Deadwood. She's in Sons of Anarchy.
Speaker 1: She plays lawyer for the for the biker gang. She
Speaker 1: is little Kidman and scarsguard's therapists and big little lies.
Speaker 4: She has eighty three credits. I mean, the woman is working.
Speaker 1: She's great. I really love her. She's telling Stabler what
Speaker 1: happened that five years ago. She was going down into
Speaker 1: the subway station at one hundred and fourth them Broadway
Speaker 1: when the one the one train, possibly the nine back
Speaker 1: at this time, and then when a man knocked her
Speaker 1: into a parked car. She fell said something hit her
Speaker 1: in the head, like the guy kicked her. He forced
Speaker 1: her into the car, knocked her out. When when she
Speaker 1: woke up, they were in some abandoned lot. He had
Speaker 1: a knife. He made her perform oral sex on him
Speaker 1: and then raped her. He made her get out and
Speaker 1: he drove off, and then she went to a gas
Speaker 1: station and he had driven her to Long Island City.
Speaker 1: So how does she know that it's Trendway And she said, well,
Speaker 1: he tried to rape me from behind in the car,
Speaker 1: but he was so tall. He was too tall, so
Speaker 1: he got on top of me and he told me
Speaker 1: to close my eyes, but I didn't, and I looked
Speaker 1: at him, and when I saw his photo in the paper,
Speaker 1: I started to shake.
Speaker 4: I know it's him. I'll never forget his face.
Speaker 1: So as Stabler is walking Heather out, He's like, gonna
Speaker 1: call her friend Melissa for her. She notices a wall
Speaker 1: of photos of battered victims' faces and sees her own picture,
Speaker 1: which Beck is adding to the collage and like Munch, like.
Speaker 2: Like she printed it out while this woman was here, Yes, yes, yes,
Speaker 2: Like she's in the next room.
Speaker 1: Stabler has Munch take her away to call her friend,
Speaker 1: and Stabler's like, hey, dumbass, like that woman just relived
Speaker 1: her greatest trauma to me, Like we don't need to
Speaker 1: post enlarged photos of what it looked like in plain sight,
Speaker 1: like in the common area of the precinct.
Speaker 4: She's a dumb bitch.
Speaker 2: I'm like annoyed that Connie is like, I guess you
Speaker 2: guys didn't like me.
Speaker 4: Yeah you suck.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah yeah yeah the character I mean. And then
Speaker 1: within six episodes she's so attached to a victim Elle Fanning,
Speaker 1: that she has to leave like she's so it's a
Speaker 1: very quick trajectory of her being really bad with victims
Speaker 1: and then becoming literally one of those moms practically.
Speaker 3: So.
Speaker 1: Beck points Stabler like I already got her case file.
Speaker 1: It was a queen's s VW case swamped and they
Speaker 1: just let me have it. So like you are getting
Speaker 1: the sense that Beck is super efficient, like she chases
Speaker 1: down the leads, she chases down the things, but she's
Speaker 1: not there's like no emotional intelligence, and she sometimes goes
Speaker 1: after the wrong fucking people just for the closure rate.
Speaker 1: So Novak and Kragan arrive and they're talking about how
Speaker 1: obviously Nikki and Heather's attackers have the same mo and
Speaker 1: the composite sketches could both easily be Tremway. But the
Speaker 1: defense will argue that her idea of Trendway was improper
Speaker 1: because she saw him in the newspaper and not on
Speaker 1: a photo lineup, And they're like, well, we might not
Speaker 1: even need to id her her clothes and rape kit
Speaker 1: were inventoried with fluids present, and the DNA wouldn't have
Speaker 1: been processed back then without a suspect, because if it's
Speaker 1: two thousand and six now, then this part crime happened
Speaker 1: in two thousand and one ish. So all the evidence
Speaker 1: is at the property clerk in Queens and the statute
Speaker 1: of limitations is up in.
Speaker 4: Four days on this case.
Speaker 1: Always, they're always running against the clock of that goddamn statute.
Speaker 1: So Craigan orders them to get a warrant for Trenway's
Speaker 1: DNA and go get the Queen's evidence as well. So
Speaker 1: now Beck and Sabler at the warehouse and it's the
Speaker 1: usual shit. An old curmudgeon tells them it's not where
Speaker 1: it's supposed to be. The warehouse leaks, we had to
Speaker 1: move stuff around. There's always like a fire or a
Speaker 1: flood or something that fucked up all this evidence. And
Speaker 1: he's like, it's not lost, but it's just going to
Speaker 1: take some time to find. And we got a lot
Speaker 1: of cases in front of you guys, and they're like, well,
Speaker 1: we don't have time, and they're like, this guy walks.
Speaker 1: If we don't find the evidence, and he goes, you're
Speaker 1: on the list, and Beck goes, no wonder they took
Speaker 1: your gun and stuck you in this hell hole and
Speaker 1: uh oh, Kurmudge does not like that. He goes, screw you, lady,
Speaker 1: Now you can find it yourself. And this guy actually
Speaker 1: does have a name. His name is Officer Fyneman and
Speaker 1: he is in season nine Cold, which we just covered recently,
Speaker 1: and then he's in season eleven Turmoil, always playing this
Speaker 1: warehouse evidence man. So as they're walking out, Beck's pissed
Speaker 1: and Sabler's like, you got any friends to undo the
Speaker 1: mess you just made in there, and he's like, I
Speaker 1: know the guy's a loser, but like bullying him doesn't
Speaker 1: accomplish anything. And you're running around half cock like you're
Speaker 1: pulling bail jumpers off the street. This is about getting
Speaker 1: inside people's heads. Your problem is every purp smells the
Speaker 1: same to you, and they don't like that they're different. Right, So,
Speaker 1: for example, Trenway's a lawyer. If you get him in
Speaker 1: the box, you work him. You don't get in his face,
Speaker 1: and you don't turn your back on victims like you
Speaker 1: did to Heather Stark. And you know, Beck has a
Speaker 1: quiet moment where she kind of maybe is taking his
Speaker 1: words in, like, you literally walked away from this woman
Speaker 1: before she even told you why she was there. So
Speaker 1: now we're suddenly in court. I don't know what's happening.
Speaker 1: Are we trying Heather Stark's case. This is a bit
Speaker 1: of a weird situation. And Heather Stark is now on
Speaker 1: the stand and they're asking her to describe additional injuries
Speaker 1: beyond the sexual assault, and she's like, well, he fractured
Speaker 1: my skull, broke my nose, my right eye socket, my
Speaker 1: whole face was a mess.
Speaker 4: I needed plastic surgery.
Speaker 1: And then she identifies Trendway with a pointer finger as
Speaker 1: usual as her attacker. And now it's the defense's turn,
Speaker 1: and the defense attorney is Charlie Moss, who we also
Speaker 1: see in season thirteen of this season, the episode Loophole,
Speaker 1: and he's played by the actor James Naughton, who's been
Speaker 1: in a ton of stuff, but I know him as
Speaker 1: Miranda Priestley's husband in The devilwaars Prada Stephen. You know,
Speaker 1: Steven's not coming and he plays Biggs brother in Nan
Speaker 1: just like that. In a couple of episodes of in
Speaker 1: just like that. But he's got a lot of credits.
Speaker 1: It's just like a bunch of stuff I haven't seen.
Speaker 1: But he looks like a douche obviously. He's classic, like
Speaker 1: the way that this show does defense, Like we know
Speaker 1: he's going to be annoying the minute he gets out
Speaker 1: of his little chair. And he goes, oh, miss uh,
Speaker 1: miss Stark, how often do you read the paper? And
Speaker 1: she goes, every day, I read the ledger? And you
Speaker 1: know that my client is very well known. And she's like, yes,
Speaker 1: I do. And you know how many times his picture
Speaker 1: has been in the ledger in the last five years
Speaker 1: since your attack?
Speaker 4: And she doesn't know.
Speaker 1: And the answer is twenty two times, so you must
Speaker 1: have seen his face before. And and Novak says, objection, speculation,
Speaker 1: and he withdraws it, but still and she goes, and
Speaker 1: he goes, is it it puzzible you recognized him from
Speaker 1: seeing him in the paper and not from your attack?
Speaker 1: And she stands strong. She's like, I was looking at
Speaker 1: him throughout the entire attack. I know it's him. Why
Speaker 1: don't you call Why didn't you call the police? The
Speaker 1: guy asks, on the other, twenty two times you saw
Speaker 1: his face in the paper? And she's like, I don't know,
Speaker 1: and Novak looks bothered. So next on the stand is
Speaker 1: doctor Polk, who is I don't know what her expertise is,
Speaker 1: but she's there to basically completely delegitimize eyewitness testimony. She's
Speaker 1: basically like, it's the least reliable.
Speaker 4: Form of testimony.
Speaker 1: But then why is it, Like there's so many cases
Speaker 1: where we can't go forward without a witness. We need
Speaker 1: a witness or we can't go forward, but then most
Speaker 1: witnesses are wrong, like she testifies that of all the
Speaker 1: accused murderers and rapists who were first exonerated when DNA
Speaker 1: became like a standard, eighty percent of them had been
Speaker 1: convicted based on mistaken eyewitness testimony.
Speaker 2: And also be curious about like the race and all
Speaker 2: of that with all people.
Speaker 4: Yes, of course, she said.
Speaker 1: Jurors believe that human memory works like a videotape, that
Speaker 1: we play things back just like in the way that
Speaker 1: they were recorded. But that's not really how it works.
Speaker 1: And Heather is not lying. She's telling the truth as
Speaker 1: she believes she remembers it, but her memory can be
Speaker 1: changed by suggestion, like seeing my client in the newspaper,
Speaker 1: the guy says that which named him as a defendant
Speaker 1: in another rape case, and she says, yes, that's what
Speaker 1: so Polk says yes. So then it's Novak's turn, and
Speaker 1: she shows the composite photo to the jury that Heather
Speaker 1: drew up or that when she first was out of
Speaker 1: after her attack, out of the hospital, and asks Polk like,
Speaker 1: do you think this could be Trendway?
Speaker 4: And she goes, it.
Speaker 1: Could be, but the fact that he's sitting a few
Speaker 1: feet away is very suggestive. So Novak points out, for
Speaker 1: seven hours after Heather Stark was raped and beaten, she
Speaker 1: was hospitalized, poked, prodded, photographed, sutured, cleaned up, and interviewed
Speaker 1: by police. And yet after all of that, after all
Speaker 1: of the possible suggestion that she might have been influenced by,
Speaker 1: she still gave a description of her attacker that even
Speaker 1: you agree resembles the defendant. Uh huh, And Pok doesn't answer,
Speaker 1: and Novak asked Poke, given the trauma she went through,
Speaker 1: her accuracy then and her confidence now, isn't it possible
Speaker 1: that she correctly identified mister Trenway as her attacker? And
Speaker 1: Polk says, yes, you know, it's possible. I don't know
Speaker 1: if it's beyond a reasonable doubt, but it's possible. The
Speaker 1: court goes on lunch break and Stabler notices Trenway holding
Speaker 1: hands and speaking to a woman behind him in the gallery,
Speaker 1: and then he also clocks an older woman staring Daggers
Speaker 1: straight ahead. This is when I knew where the episode
Speaker 1: was going. I don't know if this is where you
Speaker 1: did add She gets up and makes brief eye contact
Speaker 1: with Stabler before walking out of the courtroom, and Novak
Speaker 1: says to Beck and Stabler, please tell me you got
Speaker 1: like the DNA, like you found the evidence from the
Speaker 1: Heather Stark crime right, and Stabler goes, Yep, it's already
Speaker 1: being processed. I'm very confused how this case was even
Speaker 1: going to trial in the time with four days left
Speaker 1: on the statute limitations.
Speaker 4: Well that was physical evidence.
Speaker 2: Well, because that was my question, like does it just
Speaker 2: have to be filed or the arrest mad or like
Speaker 2: does court have to happen?
Speaker 4: Like what are these rules for?
Speaker 1: Yeah, like, yeah, it's just I mean, obviously we know
Speaker 1: that the court timeline you are following the Luigi case obviously,
Speaker 1: like it keeps getting pushed back. This all went down
Speaker 1: eighteen months ago, and he's like, we barely had this
Speaker 1: guy in court, Like, so it is obviously insane on
Speaker 1: the show how they do this.
Speaker 4: But I'm just like, there's kind of no way.
Speaker 1: I feel like that this would even go to court
Speaker 1: with just a woman saying five years ago it was
Speaker 1: this guy and no evidence after seeing him in the newspaper, right, Like,
Speaker 1: it just doesn't I don't.
Speaker 4: I don't get it. So maybe it's a Molino hearing,
Speaker 4: but I don't think it is.
Speaker 1: I think it's like it seems like it's a regular hearing.
Speaker 1: But anyway, Novak is like, great, I'm going to get
Speaker 1: the results in on rebuttal and Stabler goes, hold on,
Speaker 1: we might have a problem. Cut to Melinda's house. She's
Speaker 1: explained she was We're getting like on a roller coaster
Speaker 1: of emotions here. First Melinda goes, unfortunately, at one point
Speaker 1: in time, this evidence got wet, which caused mold to
Speaker 1: grow on the biological material, and they're.
Speaker 4: Like, shit, are we fucked? Like is it ruined?
Speaker 1: And then she goes, but we lucked out a couple
Speaker 1: of DNA markers are suitable for comparison, yes, and I
Speaker 1: have definitive proof, and Novak is like, score, we got him,
Speaker 1: and Melinda toying with all of them, goes and actually
Speaker 1: the results aren't even fucking close. There is no way
Speaker 1: in hell that Trendway raped Heather Stark, Like these are
Speaker 1: not even closely related in any world.
Speaker 2: It's devastating, It's really devastating.
Speaker 4: So outside the courthouse, Heather is upset.
Speaker 1: She's insisting, like I was staring at his face during
Speaker 1: the entire attack, so I could remember everything about him.
Speaker 1: This has to be wrong, she says, And like I'm
Speaker 1: sitting there going what.
Speaker 4: Did this guy do to fuck? Did this guy pay
Speaker 4: someone to fuck with the DNA? Like he did? Do it? Right?
Speaker 1: Likes, She's so sure, so the DNA can't be wrong. Unfortunately,
Speaker 1: they tell her at this moment. This is At this moment,
Speaker 1: Trendway decides this would be a great time for a
Speaker 1: little chat and he approaches Heather and she screams, get
Speaker 1: the hell away from me, and then he excuses himself
Speaker 1: like a true fool, like he looks like an idiot.
Speaker 4: And Heather's like, how can I be so sure and
Speaker 4: be wrong?
Speaker 1: And you know that's obviously the show and the writers
Speaker 1: trying to make a commentary on recall and memory and
Speaker 1: like how these things work like, and Stabler's like, Stabler
Speaker 1: Damasco's we'll run the DNA. If he's been arrested for
Speaker 1: another crime, we'll get him. And Heather's like, do I
Speaker 1: have to remind you about the law you are a cop?
Speaker 1: Like it's too late. It's too late now, she says,
Speaker 1: and then she walks away just past the statute. Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: like you know, they got this court in what the
Speaker 1: day of the statute, They somehow got this trial to trial.
Speaker 1: And then she walks away, and Novac goes, She's right,
Speaker 1: she'll never get justice, but maybe we can still get
Speaker 1: justice for Nicky, you know, Lily rob so Beck is
Speaker 1: pushing hard on the Trendway thing.
Speaker 4: Was him for sure?
Speaker 1: And Novak is like, if we put this guy on
Speaker 1: trial right now for Niki, we'll make him a martyr.
Speaker 1: He's already the poster boy for mistaken identity. We need
Speaker 1: another victim who will testify the trend weight rape term.
Speaker 1: So back at the precinct, Craigan is like, we already
Speaker 1: went back five years. We didn't find anything, Sabler says.
Speaker 1: Novak wants them to go back farther to get a
Speaker 1: Malino witness, which is, if you remember, I've talked about
Speaker 1: this on the pod before, is specific to New York
Speaker 1: justice system, where it's specific to criminal cases in New
Speaker 1: York where people can testify about prior bad acts to
Speaker 1: prove motive, intent or pattern. But I don't I do
Speaker 1: need a lawyer to explain to me the difference between
Speaker 1: a molino witness and.
Speaker 4: Prejudicial to the jury.
Speaker 1: Like when they they'll go, well, you can't testify, that
Speaker 1: will be prejudicial. But isn't this prejudicial to set up
Speaker 1: this pattern or whatever? But I don't know, and then
Speaker 1: we'll see me more.
Speaker 2: It's like like someone nephew got in trouble and so
Speaker 2: Congressman changed the rules.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I was like, oh, actually, I don't know. It just
Speaker 2: seems like a crazy rule to be like, yeah, you're right, Yeah,
Speaker 2: I don't.
Speaker 1: It's confusing because we've seen so many cases where they're like, well,
Speaker 1: but this happened, but yeah, but there's no evidence of that.
Speaker 1: We can't have you say that because that's prejudicial whatever.
Speaker 1: So Craigan says, I don't even know why we still
Speaker 1: have the statute of limitations now that we have DNA,
Speaker 1: and I believe The Statute of Limitations was eliminated in
Speaker 1: two thousand and six, the same year that this episode
Speaker 1: came out. And then there is a new law that
Speaker 1: came out in twenty nineteen that extended the Statute of
Speaker 1: limitations in some cases.
Speaker 4: But I thought that it was I remember that eliminated.
Speaker 4: It was like a molestation thing.
Speaker 1: It was incest as well, like now incest goes longer.
Speaker 1: It used to be like ten years and now it's
Speaker 1: twenty and stuff like that.
Speaker 2: Because I think this has to do with like the
Speaker 2: Catholic Church and the suing and stuff, and it let
Speaker 2: people sue.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know, Yeah, because there were some things
Speaker 1: where there were going to let people still make claims
Speaker 1: until way beyond, Like I think if something happens when
Speaker 1: you're a child, I think it's like up until you're
Speaker 1: in your twenties, like twenty six or something. But anyway,
Speaker 1: it is funny that Craigan's making this heavy handed, like
Speaker 1: why do we even have the statute? And at the
Speaker 1: same time, it's pretty much going away in real time,
Speaker 1: so much of course, the contrarian goes, well, it's to
Speaker 1: stop people like Heather Stark from accusing the wrong person.
Speaker 1: And when we get into the bullpen, they all see Beck,
Speaker 1: who has apparently been there all night, just pounding coffee
Speaker 1: like a dog with a bone, and she's like, trendway,
Speaker 1: I got him, and she found this woman did a
Speaker 1: full fucking work up. Okay, she found fourteen, which again,
Speaker 1: this is what would have already happened before we got
Speaker 1: to Heather Stark's case.
Speaker 4: I feel like we would have already done a deep
Speaker 4: dive on this.
Speaker 2: Dude, right Well, I don't think they could have because
Speaker 2: of the time the statue.
Speaker 4: Yeah maybe, yeah, that's true. I think that's the thing.
Speaker 1: Maybe it was an indict maybe it was like the
Speaker 1: indictment or something, or I don't know. Anyway, she found
Speaker 1: fourteen unsolved beatings and rapes in Ithaca from nineteen seventy
Speaker 1: to nineteen seventy four, the years that he was at
Speaker 1: Cornell if you remember him going to Cornell and they
Speaker 1: stopped as soon as he graduated. And then in North
Speaker 1: Carolina where Duke is, eleven victims from seventy four to
Speaker 1: seventy seven, which correspond with the exact years that he
Speaker 1: was in law school at Duke, all unsolved. And then
Speaker 1: she points out the fact that this dude works in
Speaker 1: New York, Connecticut, but lives in Connecticut, and also mentioned
Speaker 1: going to court in New Jersey. So they put it
Speaker 1: together and they're like, oh, my gosh, she could have
Speaker 1: been committing rapes in the Tri state area for years
Speaker 1: because they're all different jurisdictions. It would be easy to
Speaker 1: get away with it. No one really shares info. So
Speaker 1: then they talk about how he grew up in Douglaston, Queens,
Speaker 1: and she pulled the cases from nineteen ten sixty seven
Speaker 1: to nineteen seventy when he was a teen, and there
Speaker 1: are no rapes with his mo O, but there are
Speaker 1: two assaults. One was a man, so we threw that
Speaker 1: one out and the other was a woman who was
Speaker 1: assaulted in her house. Her name at the time, her
Speaker 1: name was Lorraine del Moss. She was thirty two years old.
Speaker 1: She had a broken nose, cheekbone, jawbone. Craig Kragan's reading
Speaker 1: the injuries out loud and Finn goes, where have I
Speaker 1: heard that before? Like these are basically identical to Nikki
Speaker 1: West injuries. And they're like, well, if that woman's still alive,
Speaker 1: she would be in her seventies, and Stabler goes, I
Speaker 1: think she is alive.
Speaker 4: I've seen this woman's face so now.
Speaker 2: And that's a stretch because this is like a black
Speaker 2: and white, fuzzy beat the fuck up photo and the
Speaker 2: woman we saw I just don't buy.
Speaker 4: Yeah, he could have put it to that.
Speaker 1: He aged progressed it forty years and like figured it out.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: But now they are at the home of Lorraine del Moss,
Speaker 1: who answers the door. And as we know, five actresses
Speaker 1: have won the Emmy for Outstanding Guest Actress from Larner SVU.
Speaker 4: The first was a Manda Plumber.
Speaker 1: The second is this woman, Leslie Coron, for this episode,
Speaker 1: and she is one of Neil Behar's absolute favorites. He
Speaker 1: talks about liking the episodes with Leslie Coron when we
Speaker 1: talked to him, and then of course number three, four
Speaker 1: and five were Cynthia Nixon, Ellen Burston and Ann Margaret So.
Speaker 1: Leslie Coron is a French actress. She's currently ninety four
Speaker 1: years old. Star of stage and screen. She's won an
Speaker 1: Emmy and a Goal and a Golden Globe. She's been
Speaker 1: nominated for an Oscar twice. More recently. Yeah, two movies
Speaker 1: that she's in more recently are Chaco Lot and La Divorce.
Speaker 4: Those are her? Those are so old, I know, but like.
Speaker 2: She's ninety four, I don't know if she's I remember
Speaker 2: Chack a Lot from the Oscar Like Seasons. For some reason,
Speaker 2: that movie like stuck into my head as a kid.
Speaker 2: I don't know why, but.
Speaker 4: It's like, who's the other French actress that Juliette Binoche.
Speaker 4: Juliette Binoche, but also the one that was in.
Speaker 1: SVU where she shoots Alena Olin. No, no, Lena Ollen's
Speaker 1: not French, it's the other woman.
Speaker 2: Wow for Molina's. This was in two thousands, so I
Speaker 2: guess I wasn't a kid, but.
Speaker 4: Yeah, is a bellou pear. Is a bellou pear? So yeah,
Speaker 4: sometimes I feel like she's.
Speaker 1: Not in Chaco Lot though, no, no, no no, But
Speaker 1: I think of like Juliette Binoche is a bellou pear,
Speaker 1: and I guess maybe Leslie caron as like the main
Speaker 1: French actresses that have come over into American mainstream cinema.
Speaker 2: So I thought were just talking about Chaco Lot. So
Speaker 2: Lena Olin, Juliette Binoche, and Leslie Caronner all in Chaco Lot.
Speaker 1: Oh Lena Ola, Yes, Okay I haven't. I don't think
Speaker 1: i've seen Chaco lot to be honest.
Speaker 2: It's one of my Johnny Depp choices for the movie
Speaker 2: Games that does well.
Speaker 4: Smart one.
Speaker 2: I don't wait Peter's Stormare is in it.
Speaker 4: I like him.
Speaker 2: He's I never knew his name. He's the freak with
Speaker 2: Steve Buscemi and Fargo. Oh okay, I wish he's been
Speaker 2: I wish she was in an SVU so he could
Speaker 2: do our podcast anyway.
Speaker 1: Stabler and Beck are at the door of this woman
Speaker 1: and he goes missus del Moss, and she corrects him
Speaker 1: and goes miss Stelmas, and he goes, I saw you
Speaker 1: in court in the gallery, and then she invites them in,
Speaker 1: and inside she's setting down like a full tea set,
Speaker 1: and she assumed that she's like, I assumed you were
Speaker 1: coming to talk to me about Marty, and like Trenway's
Speaker 1: name is Martin, so she's calling him Marty. She's known
Speaker 1: him since he was a boy. She was best friends
Speaker 1: with his mother. Oh, you must have been shocked when
Speaker 1: he was accused of assaulting these women. And she does
Speaker 1: not say yes about being shocked. She doesn't really answer,
Speaker 1: and she says, well, I wanted to see what would happen,
Speaker 1: and so you were pleased when the charges were dropped,
Speaker 1: They ask her, and she goes, yes, but just like
Speaker 1: one syllable yes. So she and Martin's mother, Marie, grew
Speaker 1: up in the same town in France.
Speaker 4: Together.
Speaker 1: Marie met James, and then James's brother met Lorraine, and
Speaker 1: they both came to the US to be with these brothers. Okay,
Speaker 1: but Lorraine and her guy broke up after Marie died,
Speaker 1: and on her deathbed, Marie made Lorraine promised to take
Speaker 1: care of Marty, but he became very difficult after his
Speaker 1: mother died. He wouldn't communicate with his father, and so
Speaker 1: we spent a lot of time at Loraine's and she
Speaker 1: says we were very close. Stabler goes, why were you
Speaker 1: sitting so far away from.
Speaker 4: Him in court?
Speaker 1: And then really weirdly, at this point, the scene silently
Speaker 1: moves to the precinct, like it just moves to the precinct.
Speaker 1: Now she's answering questions in the precinct, and I was
Speaker 1: very confused because they were just questioning her, talking back
Speaker 1: and forth, and then now they're in the precinct and
Speaker 1: asking in woodroom blinds asking her questions, and she goes.
Speaker 1: She continues to talk about her relationship with Marty aka
Speaker 1: Martin Trnway. She goes, well, we haven't spoken in forty years.
Speaker 1: He went to college, we lost touch. So they ask her, oh, well,
Speaker 1: is that before or after the attack in your home?
Speaker 1: And she's silent for a minute and she would rather
Speaker 1: not talk about that attack, and Stabler pushes. He goes,
Speaker 1: you know, I read the police reports. The attacker didn't
Speaker 1: break in. Did you know your attacker? And she says, well,
Speaker 1: it happened so long ago. You know, people in those
Speaker 1: days weren't afraid to open their doors. And she's getting
Speaker 1: flustered and she stands up and says, I want to
Speaker 1: go home. And that was when I realized she wasn't
Speaker 1: in her home. I was like, I thought we were
Speaker 1: in your home. And then she was like, I want
Speaker 1: to be taken home. So Stabler's like, what about some food?
Speaker 1: Can I get you something to eat? And he's stalling
Speaker 1: her to get her to stay. On the other side
Speaker 1: of the glass, it's Craig and Beck and Huang watching
Speaker 1: and Beck's like, I don't get why she's protecting him,
Speaker 1: because you don't get anything about victims, like truly not
Speaker 1: a thing, and Craigan thinks, well, it might be out
Speaker 1: of allegiance to Trendway's mother and Huang's like, I don't
Speaker 1: think so. I think she went to court to see
Speaker 1: him get justice. Well then why won't she talk And
Speaker 1: Huang's like, because she's ashamed and she's not going to
Speaker 1: talk to a man. So now the cameras the camera
Speaker 1: focuses on Beck like, Babe, you're gonna take it this one.
Speaker 1: You're gonna finally man up and join us view for real.
Speaker 1: And this is her moment to step up and like, yeah,
Speaker 1: be an SVU detective who is all?
Speaker 4: She annoys me.
Speaker 2: Doing this too, Like now that she's nice to a victim,
Speaker 2: I'm pissed too.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Now I hate when she walks in and starts speaking French.
Speaker 2: It like sickens me. I'm like, you try hard, bitch,
Speaker 2: I don't know that that sucks.
Speaker 1: It's oh there, Yeah, she's multi lingual and Beck knocks
Speaker 1: on the door and asks can I come in in French?
Speaker 1: And then she gives her some water, continues speaking to
Speaker 1: her in friend, and she tells her about how she
Speaker 1: used to summer in Avignon, not far from where Lorraine
Speaker 1: grew up, and she tells her you shouldn't be ashamed,
Speaker 1: and Lorraine goes ashamed of what?
Speaker 4: And she said, of what he did to you? Did
Speaker 4: he rape you?
Speaker 1: She asked, And this is all in French, and Lorraine
Speaker 1: again says no, no, no, I don't want to talk
Speaker 1: about this, and Beck tells her it's okay, and then
Speaker 1: tells her about her cop husband who was murdered four
Speaker 1: years ago, and for a long time she couldn't talk
Speaker 1: about it either, and then once she did, she felt
Speaker 1: much better. No one should have to live with what
Speaker 1: you went through like in secret, basically.
Speaker 2: And then but Lorraine's stories have nothing to do with
Speaker 2: each other, so that's like that analogy.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I guess, like, just talk about your trauma
Speaker 1: is the only thing she's trying to say to this woman.
Speaker 4: But opening up giving her a secret.
Speaker 1: She didn't tell that to Stable earlier when they were
Speaker 1: talking about husbands and whatever.
Speaker 4: So now she's.
Speaker 1: Worth you know, Okay, Now we know why she's so,
Speaker 1: you know, driven to get bad guys because someone murdered
Speaker 1: her husband or I don't know. Then Lorraine switches to
Speaker 1: English and goes but I promised his mother, and Beck says, yeah,
Speaker 1: and you kept that promise. You helped him, and now
Speaker 1: you have to help yourself. Back to enent Francis and
Speaker 1: Lorraine says, I didn't want to get him in trouble.
Speaker 1: I forced myself to forget. I pretended nothing happen. But
Speaker 1: you keep it inside, it eats you up. My fiance
Speaker 1: tried to help me, but I couldn't tell him anything.
Speaker 1: He finally left, and after that I knew that no
Speaker 1: man would ever want me. So did Marty attack you?
Speaker 1: She said, it's okay, you don't have to protect him anymore,
Speaker 1: and Lorraine nods and says, yes, it was Marty, and
Speaker 1: she immediately burst into tears. She's like, I didn't want
Speaker 1: to say it, but it was Marty. So now we're
Speaker 1: at an evidentiary hearing, okay, And it is four days later.
Speaker 1: Lorraine is on the stand. She's explaining that Marty was
Speaker 1: upset the night he came over, but he wouldn't say why.
Speaker 1: He asked for a soda. When she was getting it
Speaker 1: out of the fridge, she was hit from behind, knocked
Speaker 1: to the floor.
Speaker 4: It was Marty.
Speaker 1: He was hitting me and hitting me and Trenway stands
Speaker 1: up and screams, you're lying.
Speaker 4: Why are you lying?
Speaker 1: And then she yells back, you know it's true, Marty,
Speaker 1: and then he screams, you swore you wouldn't say anything,
Speaker 1: like wow, he turned real quick like he immediately was like,
Speaker 1: but you promised, And so Lorraine keeps going. She goes,
Speaker 1: you grab the kitchen knife from the counter. You made
Speaker 1: me pull down my pants, and you raped me, and
Speaker 1: Trenway sits down as Judge Queen Judge Petrovsky is banging
Speaker 1: her gavel asking for order, and Novak asks, why didn't
Speaker 1: you tell the police about the rape? She said, I
Speaker 1: was single, I was engaged to be married. I was
Speaker 1: embarrassed and ashamed. I didn't know what my fiance would do,
Speaker 1: and Marty was like family to me. So Novak asks
Speaker 1: Petrowski to accept this testimony as proof that Trendway has
Speaker 1: raped before, and Petrovski tells Lorraine that she is so
Speaker 1: sorry for what she has endured and sorry that she
Speaker 1: can never try Martin Trenway for what he did to her.
Speaker 1: But this is an evidentiary hearing, not a trial, and
Speaker 1: because it happened so long ago, there is no proof
Speaker 1: to support your testimony. And I cannot admit this under
Speaker 1: Malino on the ground that it would be unfairly pressured
Speaker 1: prejudicial to the defendant.
Speaker 4: But wouldn't Novak know that?
Speaker 1: Like I'm so confused about, Like why would you even
Speaker 1: call this hearing if you know that a judge is
Speaker 1: not going to give you any I guess what the
Speaker 1: difference is is like he never went to trial for
Speaker 1: this because it's past the statute of limitations. But there's evidence, right,
Speaker 1: And but Novak knew putting her up on the stand
Speaker 1: that there was no evidence. And then for the sake
Speaker 1: of drama, Lorraine interrupts Petrovsky and goes, I buried it.
Speaker 1: I buried it like my memories. After Marty left that night,
Speaker 1: I took off all my clothes I was wearing and
Speaker 1: I stuffed them in a box. There's a place in
Speaker 1: the basement. And as she's talking, we're seeing stablers search
Speaker 1: for the box in her basement. He finds this floral
Speaker 1: box and he opens it and it is stuffed with clothes.
Speaker 1: And she continues that she kept the box down there
Speaker 1: for forty years until she heard that Marty had raped
Speaker 1: a girl and she knew it had to be true.
Speaker 4: Why was this not given to.
Speaker 1: You, to anybody before this like evidentiary hearing? It just
Speaker 1: doesn't make any sense to me, And so we cut
Speaker 1: some Melinda comparing Trendway's DNA to the DNA on Lorrain's clothes,
Speaker 1: and boom, they're a match.
Speaker 4: Martin Trenway raped Nicki West.
Speaker 1: But she says that with such certainty, it's like that
Speaker 1: doesn't actually quite prove that. It makes it so that
Speaker 1: we can get maybe this Molino witness in, but it
Speaker 1: doesn't necessarily prove that he definitely raped Nicko West, even
Speaker 1: though I do think he did. Back at the hearing,
Speaker 1: Lorraine is still talking. She all this has been going on,
Speaker 1: all this testing has been going on. While she's talking,
Speaker 1: she goes, I blame myself. Marty was only fifteen. It
Speaker 1: really reminded me of the of the Alfred Molina episode,
Speaker 1: Like it reminded me of someone who's like assaulting adults
Speaker 1: as a team and is not being stopped because promising
Speaker 1: young man whatever bullshit right.
Speaker 4: Yeah, Like her whole life was not worth.
Speaker 2: His, like you know what I mean, And she just
Speaker 2: lived with no one, was like no one will be
Speaker 2: with me and that's fine to keep this promise to
Speaker 2: my dead friend. And it's like, your life's worth more
Speaker 2: than this, dude, It's like so weird.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and the chances are your friend didn't know kind
Speaker 1: of the monster that her son was or becoming or.
Speaker 4: Ally did or did yeah? Or did or did? Oh?
Speaker 4: That's dark, that's the dark part.
Speaker 1: You know that your son is Like, Oh, we need
Speaker 1: to talk about Kevin, and you on your deathbed, tell
Speaker 1: your friend please look out for him.
Speaker 2: Wait, I've never seen it. What does he end up killing?
Speaker 2: Or like what happens spoiled?
Speaker 4: Does anyone?
Speaker 1: Has anyone seen it? I'm it, but I want to
Speaker 1: know what happens if you have not watched. We need
Speaker 1: to talk about Kevin. I'm giving away the plot right now. Basically,
Speaker 1: she knows his whole life. She can tell something's up
Speaker 1: with him, and eventually he does the equivalent of a
Speaker 1: school shooting but with a bow and arrow, and he
Speaker 1: like kills a bunch of people. Jared and I went
Speaker 1: to see it on one of our first dates. Oh
Speaker 1: my god, I think I know that. But did did
Speaker 1: he go to Like what's the move?
Speaker 4: Like? When does what timeline? Does the movie start him?
Speaker 1: It starts him like as a as a kid, it's
Speaker 1: like his whole life and he does weird things and
Speaker 1: the mom keep being like, am I doing something wrong?
Speaker 4: Is it him?
Speaker 1: Like it's kind of psychopath like nature versus nurture kind
Speaker 1: of conversation. Is that movie Casey In the end, does
Speaker 1: he like go to trial or anything? Or I don't
Speaker 1: remember that part? He goes to jail, and then she
Speaker 1: has to live with like the she also has to
Speaker 1: live with the stigma of being like the parent of
Speaker 1: a school shooter or like a mass murderer.
Speaker 4: But it's also like this thing where she from the
Speaker 4: very beginning is like, there's something off about my son,
Speaker 4: there's something very dark and wrong with him, and everybody
Speaker 4: else is like you really have it out for Kevin,
Speaker 4: don't you? What's your deal? What's wrong with you? And
Speaker 4: then you know, she ends up being right, but no
Speaker 4: one believes her and then afterwards they'll blame her.
Speaker 1: Yeah, basically, that's that's classic motherhood. It's like boys will
Speaker 1: be boys and then it's like you do you, Like
Speaker 1: he's not boys will be boys, and it's like, well,
Speaker 1: you were a bad mom, like you probably made him
Speaker 1: that way.
Speaker 4: Like it's really we've seen that well anyway.
Speaker 1: Anyway, so Marty was only fifteen, he had a whole
Speaker 1: life ahead of him. Lorena is saying, so I made
Speaker 1: myself forget what he had done. Maybe if I had
Speaker 1: spoken up, he could have been helped. Maybe he wouldn't
Speaker 1: have harmed this young lady. And then classic SVU. Even
Speaker 1: though the date from the first visit to Martin Trenway's
Speaker 1: apartment was on September nineteenth, it is now October second.
Speaker 1: They zoom in on Nicky West and it's a fresh
Speaker 1: face Lily Rob with not a scratch on her face.
Speaker 1: She does not have you know, sometimes it's like, oh,
Speaker 1: the black ey's gotten better, but there's still a little
Speaker 1: bit of it. She has not a scratch out her face,
Speaker 1: and it's been thirteen days since she was rearranged and
Speaker 1: probably needed plastic surgery. And you know whatever, we got
Speaker 1: beautiful young Lily Rob sitting there. She like Lorraine, apologizes
Speaker 1: to her from the stand. A solitary tear rolls down
Speaker 1: Nicky's cheek. It's very dramatic. Outside the courtroom, Novak says
Speaker 1: Trendway will plead guilty to raping Niki and give them
Speaker 1: the names of all the victims he can remember, and
Speaker 1: in return, Casey recommends the mac sentence. I go, I
Speaker 1: don't really know that's a deal, but okay. Beck's like, well,
Speaker 1: it won't be long enough. Did he agree to it?
Speaker 1: And Novack goes, oh, yeah, he's waving the white flag.
Speaker 1: He knows it's all over, which I sort of don't
Speaker 1: believe any rich man that gets busted ever, is truly
Speaker 1: waving the white flag and knows it's all over, unless
Speaker 1: there's fully a video of you murdering someone. I think
Speaker 1: they all try to like get through loopholes and just
Speaker 1: spend money until they get an appeal.
Speaker 2: I wonder if it's because he's a lawyer and he
Speaker 2: just knows he's fucked.
Speaker 4: Maybe.
Speaker 1: But Lorraine wants to know, well, what does this all mean?
Speaker 1: And Beck goes, well, it means that when he when
Speaker 1: and if he gets out of prison, he'll be too
Speaker 1: old to rape anyone. And Nicky asks Lorraine and it's like,
Speaker 1: I'd like to know the actual number of years, because
Speaker 1: he's fifty four right now, and we've seen horrible rapists
Speaker 1: get like ten years, So I'd love to know for
Speaker 1: sure that he's going to that he's getting thirty to
Speaker 1: forty years. Nicky asks Lorraine, how can I ever repay you?
Speaker 1: And she goes, move on, live your life, don't lock
Speaker 1: yourself away the way I did. And Lorraine turns to
Speaker 1: Beck and you know, touches her arm and says mercy twice.
Speaker 1: And she walks off with her head held high and
Speaker 1: smile a little bit of a smile on her face.
Speaker 1: And so maybe Lorraine is going to start living now
Speaker 1: in her seventies. And that's Dick Wolf Baby. A very
Speaker 1: wild episode plot wise, but a little all over the
Speaker 1: place plot wise, But I do like the.
Speaker 4: I do like some of the themes, and I like
Speaker 4: some of the guest casting. Its great good one. And
Speaker 4: guess what you're gonna hate the crimes? Oh god? All right,
Speaker 4: So we're moving on along.
Speaker 2: This guy, the Belmont Shore rapist, and this connects because
Speaker 2: of DNA stuff.
Speaker 4: I would say, that's how this this case I connect it.
Speaker 2: So basically, these this guy, this rapist he was attacking.
Speaker 2: His name is Mark Wayne Rathbun wrath Bun, but I
Speaker 2: only think of mister Ratburn from Arthur, so it's hard
Speaker 2: for me. But okay, So he attacked in California and
Speaker 2: in Washington State from nineteen ninety six until two thousand
Speaker 2: and two. And it was a series of assaults and
Speaker 2: they occurred in late night to early morning hours in
Speaker 2: homes where doors were not locked or not properly secured.
Speaker 2: But also he would jimmy his way in as well,
Speaker 2: sometimes a window, sometimes a back door. I don't think
Speaker 2: we should be like blaming people, but yeah, you gotta
Speaker 2: lock your door, okay. So the victims ranged at an eight age. Actually,
Speaker 2: I had a friend come over this week and he
Speaker 2: went one floor up and walked into another person's apartment.
Speaker 2: Oh no, it was two girls, but they have actually
Speaker 2: just moved in. So to me, I'm like, where have
Speaker 2: you come from? You should actually lock your door. Yeah,
Speaker 2: But my friend's non threatening, so I'm sure they were fine.
Speaker 4: He has a bob.
Speaker 2: So the victims ranged in age from thirty to seventy four.
Speaker 4: The majority were elderly. The women were always alone.
Speaker 2: No weapons were used, but he would wear gloves and
Speaker 2: a mask, and then after the rape, he would forcibly
Speaker 2: cuddle with them in their beds.
Speaker 4: Oh, now, I.
Speaker 2: Know it's like that, it's just so fucked. It's all fucked.
Speaker 2: But like that's definitely a new fuck. Like, I don't
Speaker 2: think we've had that before. I don't think we've had
Speaker 2: a forced cuddle.
Speaker 4: No, but I hate that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, rape, oral rape, sodomy, penetration with foreign objects, all
Speaker 2: the hits. And it started in Seattle in nineteen ninety
Speaker 2: six and then in ninety seven the attacks moved to California.
Speaker 2: A lull from June two thousand to December two thousand
Speaker 2: and one, but in total, over thirty women attacked, and
Speaker 2: authorities to The Orlando Sentinel described him as a drifter. Okay,
Speaker 2: so he's just like a drifter and he traveled by bicycle.
Speaker 2: So hm, that's his vibe. Sorry, I just like, I
Speaker 2: don't know, to be like a rapist on a bicycle, Like,
Speaker 2: it's just so annoying.
Speaker 1: Remember the tr Night episode, he was on a bike course.
Speaker 4: Yeah, how dare you? How dare you question.
Speaker 2: Mark Wayne? Okay, so Mark Wayne. He was arrested after
Speaker 2: DNA evidence linked him to some of the attacks. So basically,
Speaker 2: like the cops got him when Mark was thirty two
Speaker 2: in Long Beach in November two thousand and two, when
Speaker 2: he was stopped on a bicycle about three blocks from
Speaker 2: his latest attack. So the cops get a call of
Speaker 2: a break in and an attempted sexual assault. This woman
Speaker 2: fought him off and they had a quick response, shockingly,
Speaker 2: and they set up a perimeter around the crime and
Speaker 2: two other people were stopped as well and questioned.
Speaker 4: But he had an injury to his.
Speaker 2: Finger, and the police believed that came from a victim
Speaker 2: because the victim said she bit his finger in hand.
Speaker 2: But then also he had a crack pipe, so they
Speaker 2: were able to charge with possession of drug paraphernalia. They
Speaker 2: did release someone a two hundred and fifty dollars bail,
Speaker 2: but he gave up his DNA voluntarily and left, and
Speaker 2: that might have been the crack influence.
Speaker 1: I mean, I wonder because it was like two thousand
Speaker 1: and two and he might have like not even known
Speaker 1: what DNA like does like that it.
Speaker 4: Is going to put you in jail. Yeah, yeah, I
Speaker 4: don't know. Maybe you escape.
Speaker 2: So he was then put under surveillance, and once the
Speaker 2: DNA sample came back and matched thirteen of the attacks,
Speaker 2: they took him into comity an ox snard. He was
Speaker 2: arraigned within forty eight hours from the arrest. So very
Speaker 2: y SVU timing, uh huh. So that that's pretty wild.
Speaker 2: And this guess what this all started. He had a
Speaker 2: peeping tom charge when he was seventeen. The gateway drug,
Speaker 2: the gateway drug of skateway drugs to sex crimes is
Speaker 2: peeping tom rie yep. Yeah, and so yeah, the thirteen
Speaker 2: attacks had DNA, and then the methods of the crime
Speaker 2: were similar and connected him to eighteen other attacks even
Speaker 2: though there was no physical evidence left behind in those.
Speaker 2: He also had a burglary charge in eighty nine. He
Speaker 2: was convicted in four on fifty nine rape counts connected
Speaker 2: to ten women he raped in California. So the judge
Speaker 2: called Rathbun a monster and sentenced him to one thousand
Speaker 2: and thirty years in prison plus ten life terms.
Speaker 4: So like slay diva, that is a sleigh diva. That
Speaker 4: is quite a sentence. Yes, it's so funny.
Speaker 2: So then Seattle attacks went to court even after that,
Speaker 2: and that jury took two hours of deliberation and they
Speaker 2: found him guilty in three more rapes committed twelve you know,
Speaker 2: like twelve years prior in King's County. So he got yeah,
Speaker 2: so in California was already serving one thousand years and
Speaker 2: then they found him guilty of like these three more
Speaker 2: rapes in Seattle. He did try to and they were like,
Speaker 2: oh no, babe, But he said the claims were like
Speaker 2: his claims were, the sentence was cruel and unusual.
Speaker 4: But you raped over thirty women, so I don't know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Now, imagine you get called for jury duty for
Speaker 1: a guy that's already serving one thousand years in another state. Like,
Speaker 1: I mean, I have jury duty next week. I'm nervous.
Speaker 4: I feel like I've avoided it so many times. I
Speaker 4: think it could get me.
Speaker 1: Now.
Speaker 2: I wish I could go, but I have to become
Speaker 2: a citizen here in New York.
Speaker 4: I don't think that's the word. To become a citizen.
Speaker 1: Get a license, that's it.
Speaker 2: But yeah, yeah, all right, so now this will boil
Speaker 2: your blood like this is like the opposite. Okay, just
Speaker 2: let me get into this. So Melvin Carter, he has
Speaker 2: a fucking nickname too, the college terrorist Rapist.
Speaker 4: Okay.
Speaker 2: So, in nineteen eighty two, Melvin admitted to raping one
Speaker 2: hundred women in the Bay. According to court documents, he
Speaker 2: said he assaults in an average of one woman a
Speaker 2: month for ten years, and usually by invading their homes
Speaker 2: at night and attacking them at knife point. He was
Speaker 2: known as this college terrorist rapist because he stalks the
Speaker 2: campuses in Stanford, Berkeley, and Davis. In nineteen eighty two,
Speaker 2: he pled no contest to twenty three counts of rape, assault, burglary,
Speaker 2: and attempted burglary in Alameda County. So he was given
Speaker 2: a twenty five year sentence and only served twelve years
Speaker 2: of that time.
Speaker 1: These eighty sentences are going to give me a fucking
Speaker 1: heart attack. Like the fact that that the way things
Speaker 1: were going down in the eighties where it was like, oh, rape,
Speaker 1: go to jail for like a couple months and then
Speaker 1: come on out.
Speaker 4: Oh it's gonna get worse and worse.
Speaker 2: But like the fact that the other guy got a
Speaker 2: thousand years and this guy got twelve and he was released,
Speaker 2: he was given parole. But I don't know what no
Speaker 2: contest means, Like what is that? That's fucked?
Speaker 1: But like whatever, Well, I mean I know that like
Speaker 1: no contests usually means you don't necessarily admit guilt, but
Speaker 1: it means you think they have enough evidence to find
Speaker 1: you guilty, Like you.
Speaker 2: Know, should give those people more time? Yeah, he should
Speaker 2: give them.
Speaker 4: More Yeah yeah yeah yeah, Like they did to the
Speaker 4: French guy.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so he was given parole. Oh okay, so he
Speaker 2: got to leave early for good behavior. But so basically
Speaker 2: the parole was three years in a prison camp. But
Speaker 2: let me explain, it's not like a prison camp that
Speaker 2: you're imagining. So and so he was allowed to leave
Speaker 2: the prison camp with a guard or a parole officer.
Speaker 2: And this happened. This started in nineteen ninety four. I
Speaker 2: don't know what kind of hannibal lecture shit, this is. Okay,
Speaker 2: So he did have electronic monitoring, twenty five mile restriction
Speaker 2: on travel, regular lie detector tests, psychiatric treatment, and he
Speaker 2: couldn't leave the residents for more than twelve hours.
Speaker 4: But like, why does he get any of this? Like,
Speaker 4: I'm just so confused.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like, the corrections department initially tried to release him quietly.
Speaker 2: They wanted to just do it chill, and then the
Speaker 2: community and people got really really mad, and then okay,
Speaker 2: so then with these three years in this place, he
Speaker 2: could then do whatever he wants and just be out
Speaker 2: in the world. And the town was pissed. It's Modic County,
Speaker 2: and one of the residents, Susie. She was funny and
Speaker 2: to the times. She was like, Hey, this is a
Speaker 2: hunting town and he's not gonna last twenty four hours
Speaker 2: in this town.
Speaker 4: Let him out. She's like, letting him out. This town's pissed.
Speaker 2: They were flipping out because this prison camp is actually
Speaker 2: called Devil's Garden.
Speaker 4: Again, these both sound worse than what it really is.
Speaker 4: What the hell so Devil's Garden, Yeah, but it's like
Speaker 4: not that.
Speaker 2: This place is supposed to be for nonviolent felons, so
Speaker 2: his presence alone is an issue and goes against this.
Speaker 2: This is on federal land and this is a national forest,
Speaker 2: so it's the modic National forest and the Forest Service
Speaker 2: who runs this federal land and this camp were pissed.
Speaker 4: So this the Forest Service.
Speaker 2: Spokesman Matt Matt Mathis, he was saying how He's like, oh,
Speaker 2: we're changing, like the rules were it had to be
Speaker 2: nonviolent felons already, and then they let this sex criminal in.
Speaker 2: So then they like changed everything so no one like
Speaker 2: that can be placed with him again without the approval
Speaker 2: of the Forest Service. Like this happened against the Forest
Speaker 2: Service approval, and so they changed something in whatever charter
Speaker 2: or law that like they can't just.
Speaker 4: Put someone in there. Anymore.
Speaker 2: So it's like you're getting townspeople pissed, you're getting these
Speaker 2: forest guys mad, You're getting the victims upset for what
Speaker 2: this guy who's admitted out loud to raping one hundred
Speaker 2: women one a month, Like it's a fucking you know,
Speaker 2: going out for a burger. It's like psychotic. These forest
Speaker 2: people were so mad they threatened to close the whole camp.
Speaker 2: They're like, if you if you let this guy in,
Speaker 2: we're closing it. It's supposed to be for minimum security
Speaker 2: inmates to receive training for being firefighters, and now that
Speaker 2: makes more sense, right, And so yeah, town is like
Speaker 2: we thought it was like chill, nonviolent people like doing
Speaker 2: fire safety, Like we don't want this like rapist.
Speaker 4: Yeah, like drug offenses like yeah.
Speaker 2: They were promised no, no sex crimes. So everyone's like, mad,
Speaker 2: I don't understand it. So he gets released and then
Speaker 2: moves to Livingston County in New York. But they couldn't,
Speaker 2: like the people, the authorities in Livingston couldn't tell the
Speaker 2: public about it because there was a lawsuit that kept
Speaker 2: Carter off the sex offender registry. There was a what
Speaker 2: a lot there was some sort of lawsuit or something
Speaker 2: was happening, so he was able to move to a
Speaker 2: new place, and the authorities were not able to warrant
Speaker 2: its citizens that there was a level three like sex
Speaker 2: offender there. So then finally a judge later like ruled
Speaker 2: he had to register. So he registers, but then he
Speaker 2: gets fucking arrested because he doesn't update his photo the
Speaker 2: way he's supposed to. So in twenty eighteen he gets arrested.
Speaker 2: I don't know why they would leave this man out.
Speaker 2: And then while he's at core for not updating his
Speaker 2: photo on his sex registry Level three after all these rapes,
Speaker 2: seventeen people from his church came to support him at
Speaker 2: that court date.
Speaker 4: Oh no, not the church support.
Speaker 2: And with the violation he was facing up to three years.
Speaker 2: Of course, he didn't got it. He didn't get it.
Speaker 2: He didn't get that. He got four months in intermittent incarceration.
Speaker 2: I don't know he keeps getting I don't does he
Speaker 2: have like the ja'afar hypnotized stick. I don't understand how
Speaker 2: he's just like maneuvering through the justice system in this way,
Speaker 2: because it's not like it's he doesn't seem wealthy to
Speaker 2: what I'm looking you know whatever, Okay, So anyways, he
Speaker 2: got four months in intermittent incarceration. He paid a three
Speaker 2: hundred and twenty five dollars five like surcharge, fifty dollars
Speaker 2: in DNA fee, and limited release meant just weekends in jail,
Speaker 2: so basically he got to live five days a week
Speaker 2: and then do weekend jail. Well, that is rapist as
Speaker 2: a prolific serial rapist. So there's a photo of him
Speaker 2: on the registry. It was updated March thirteenth, twenty twenty six,
Speaker 2: so he is keeping up with his registry. He he
Speaker 2: looks fucking creepy. He lives in Lecaster Less like in
Speaker 2: England it would be Lesster Square.
Speaker 4: I don't know is this so?
Speaker 2: I actually don't know who cares. But if you want,
Speaker 2: you can look him up. You can see his full
Speaker 2: address and his employment and he's just like alive in
Speaker 2: New York and on the registry. And fuck you California
Speaker 2: or where was this? Never mind? I don't know why
Speaker 2: I just said fuck you.
Speaker 1: Well it was originally California that let him out, and
Speaker 1: then it was then he went to New York.
Speaker 4: Yeah, so I don't understand.
Speaker 2: I don't know why he didn't serve the full twenty
Speaker 2: five Like how about at least a year for each
Speaker 2: woman raped?
Speaker 4: Like how about twenty three years? Like what are we
Speaker 4: doing here?
Speaker 2: I mean, what good behavior can a rapist do to
Speaker 2: take away their rape? Good behaviors? For Like I was
Speaker 2: sixteen and I did.
Speaker 1: An armed robbery and then you don't just do that
Speaker 1: like once a month for ten years and then stop
Speaker 1: like because a judge told you too or whatever. So
Speaker 1: the guy either has to be like chemically castrated or something, or.
Speaker 2: But then he did fail probation or parole or whatever,
Speaker 2: and they gave him millennium sentence again, Like why wouldn't
Speaker 2: you give him four years? Why would it be just
Speaker 2: weekend jail? My friend with a DUI had to do
Speaker 2: weekend jail, Like that's crazy.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's fucked. That is really fucked.
Speaker 1: And he's just alive and well in Lester Leicester like whatever,
Speaker 1: New York fuck.
Speaker 2: Crazy ever, it is crazy. It's like these crime, these
Speaker 2: crimes never end. I just keep thinking about the guy
Speaker 2: I argued with. I was just like you just think
Speaker 2: about this stuff too much, you know, I just try
Speaker 2: not to think about it, Like all right, well, it's
Speaker 2: never ending so it's not even about thing. God, it's
Speaker 2: so gorgeous outside. It's really a nice day out here too.
Speaker 1: Okay, all right, let's rapes keep raping, the rapists keep
Speaker 1: raping and getting barely any punishments.
Speaker 4: Okay, And it's.
Speaker 2: Called like the Devil's Garden prison camp, and it's like
Speaker 2: firefighting training for minor offense.
Speaker 1: Just why are you calling it that? I mean, just
Speaker 1: call it something very It doesn't need a cute name.
Speaker 1: All right, we don't have a guest today, so no,
Speaker 1: the Devil's Garden is gonna be my drag queen name.
Speaker 2: A little bit of a pothead too, you know, yeah,
Speaker 2: the Devil's let us. Yeah yeah, and welcome to the stage,
Speaker 2: the Devil's Garden.
Speaker 1: All right, let's move on to our post mortem.
Speaker 4: I mean, a tough episode.
Speaker 1: It's tough when like someone when you see like someone
Speaker 1: that's been through this trauma, like the character in the
Speaker 1: show who just is misremembering because memory is such a
Speaker 1: weird thing.
Speaker 4: But it's also so weird.
Speaker 1: That, Yeah, you always have to have an eyewitness or
Speaker 1: it's he said, she said. But then if you have
Speaker 1: an eyewitness, they're not reliable. Like there's just like kind
Speaker 1: of no way to nail anyone unless you like have
Speaker 1: a video and a confession.
Speaker 4: So that's the justice system. It seems like, yeah.
Speaker 2: But even if you have everything like they in the
Speaker 2: True Crime he what serves maybe twelve years I know
Speaker 2: for like so many rapes, admitting to the rapes, like
Speaker 2: the church supporting him.
Speaker 4: It's like it doesn't even matter if you have.
Speaker 2: All the evidence, just like all the DNA footage everything.
Speaker 2: It's like, I don't know, but you texted him the
Speaker 2: next day. It's like they will find any reason to
Speaker 2: excuse it. It's like it's crazy rape so much and
Speaker 2: then one guy gets a thousand years.
Speaker 4: It's like it's just up to whatever kooky judge is there.
Speaker 4: It's just I don't know, I don't know.
Speaker 1: Well, I mean, I think also the difference between your
Speaker 1: two guys here is that like in nineteen eighty two
Speaker 1: or the eighties, when this guy was committing these crimes,
Speaker 1: like DNA wasn't as bad, and now with the DNA,
Speaker 1: I feel like it's DNA has forced these judges to
Speaker 1: be like, oh, okay, you you actually you fucking did it,
Speaker 1: you know, like and instead of okay, it might have
Speaker 1: been consensual, like let's do five.
Speaker 2: But he admitted it. Yeah's the thing. He admitted a
Speaker 2: rapping up. I'm admitted, Like, yeah, he admitted it, and
Speaker 2: they're like let him out, and then of course he
Speaker 2: breaks probation and then they still let him out. Like
Speaker 2: it just is really fucking annoying. And then the Belmont
Speaker 2: Shore one. You know, it's like such an indicator that
Speaker 2: like it's about power and like that the elderly are
Speaker 2: victims so.
Speaker 4: Often of this.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and we don't think about that because we think
Speaker 2: about rape and such sexual terms. Because I'm thinking about
Speaker 2: even the slut walk, Like I just feel like the
Speaker 2: crime is so misunderstood and like, yeah, it's like about
Speaker 2: it was just about power.
Speaker 1: I mean, especially the guy in this episode, because he
Speaker 1: starts doing this when he's like sixteen. You know, like
Speaker 1: it's this some kind of mental break in him that
Speaker 1: makes this violence towards women that he does his whole
Speaker 1: fucking life.
Speaker 4: But I don't know.
Speaker 1: It's also so crazy that this guy in the show,
Speaker 1: in the episode, that he commits these crimes and then
Speaker 1: he pursues a career in the law, like he becomes
Speaker 1: a district attorney, Like knowing that he does these that
Speaker 1: he commits crimes against people all the time. Not like
Speaker 1: it's not like I think every lawyer is taking like
Speaker 1: an oath to do no harm, but like to become
Speaker 1: an adya, like you're working for the state trying to
Speaker 1: put away criminals when you have been a serial rapist
Speaker 1: since you were fifteen.
Speaker 4: It's just kind of a while.
Speaker 1: Then personal then he becomes a personal injury lawyer, which
Speaker 1: is that tracks for me too, Like he just it's
Speaker 1: money and like more power, you know.
Speaker 2: Because if it's more Yeah, if it's about power, then
Speaker 2: then it makes sense for him to be an ada
Speaker 2: and then he can control the stuff, he could steal
Speaker 2: it in it, he can do whatever cover up for
Speaker 2: his own crimes. Yeah, he could do everything.
Speaker 4: I don't know.
Speaker 2: Something related earlier in my brain to something you said,
Speaker 2: but it actually has nothing to do with anything. But
Speaker 2: I was watching this one video online and I don't
Speaker 2: know who this woman is, but she was saying how
Speaker 2: people shit on the Girl Boss era so much that
Speaker 2: it's like seen as this big embarrassment, and she was
Speaker 2: just saying she goes and I don't know this because
Speaker 2: I was never in this type of corporate life, but
Speaker 2: she goes, No, it actually changed a lot of things.
Speaker 4: She goes. When I started in finance, it.
Speaker 2: Was very like no one should know you're a woman
Speaker 2: dressing brown, like do this, there's only one and she goes,
Speaker 2: you know, like it is different in the corporate world.
Speaker 2: Now you can like wear stuff and there's more women,
Speaker 2: And I just I'm curious about that, Like, was it
Speaker 2: this humiliating thing and we can't have it all in
Speaker 2: millennial cringe girl boss y or was it an actual
Speaker 2: thing that's being diminished that did change people's lives And
Speaker 2: maybe not as much, but like maybe me shoo did,
Speaker 2: but things do did change. I don't know, it was
Speaker 2: just something that pequed my curiosity. This Yeah, no, that's interesting.
Speaker 1: I guess the girl boss era was like twenty fourteen
Speaker 1: to nineteen, okay, and that people are talking about also
Speaker 1: like these things kind of it's like the women can
Speaker 1: have it All era of the eighties, Like these things
Speaker 1: can like repeat themselves and even though maybe we've decided
Speaker 1: with maybe people have decided women can't have it all,
Speaker 1: maybe that like whole thing crumbled, but like it keeps
Speaker 1: coming back and good things do come out. Well, it's
Speaker 1: structurally made not to work, you know it structurally made
Speaker 1: to fuck up your life.
Speaker 2: But it must have done something. I just never worked
Speaker 2: in the corporate world. But I do feel like you
Speaker 2: you can dress different now, like you don't have to
Speaker 2: heel like there is something going on. I think there's
Speaker 2: a little more protections. I think men might be a
Speaker 2: little more scared to hug or touch.
Speaker 4: But maybe I'm wrong. Maybe I'm wrong.
Speaker 2: I'm not sure. Also, thank you to whoever got me
Speaker 2: my heated rivalry lighter. I have been using it, so thanks.
Speaker 2: And also shout out to the listener I ran into
Speaker 2: at soul Cycle Fun.
Speaker 4: Oh my god, actually huge news.
Speaker 2: So Hudson Williams, like a few months ago was seen
Speaker 2: maybe it wasn't like time is not real anymore, but
Speaker 2: he was seen in this fun outfit with this bag,
Speaker 2: and I was like, I want it. I want this look.
Speaker 2: So I sent it to my stylist. I was like,
Speaker 2: this is the this is the inspo for the summer.
Speaker 2: So I'm working on getting that together. Can't find the
Speaker 2: shorts yet, but this I'm not buying a Balenciaga bag.
Speaker 2: So I did find a fake on DHG, but like
Speaker 2: you know, I'm not good with technology errors, like it
Speaker 2: stressed me out. A girl walks into Soul Cycle and
Speaker 2: I go, is that the Balanciaga I truly was Giselle
Speaker 2: and Devilwar's product.
Speaker 4: Like I was just like, is that the Balanciaga bag?
Speaker 2: And she goes, yeah, it's a fake And she ordered
Speaker 2: me one from China and I've venmoed her and I'm
Speaker 2: gonna have this bag and I think it's gonna change
Speaker 2: my life.
Speaker 4: Oh my god, I'm gonna cycle.
Speaker 1: You guys all look out for each other, like truly,
Speaker 1: what the hell.
Speaker 4: That's so good?
Speaker 1: Because like I'm just saying, like I worry about you
Speaker 1: ordering from the wrong Chinese site and something going bad
Speaker 1: and you being like, well they took my credit card number,
Speaker 1: and now like you know so for sure? Yeah no,
Speaker 1: She's like I got a girl, but it's this gorgeous
Speaker 1: like bigger bad. It's gonna open, it's gonna fit my books,
Speaker 1: it's gonna look so good, like I can't wait. Wow,
Speaker 1: You're just like you have to actually like yeah, this
Speaker 1: is functional, like not like wearable tech, but like this
Speaker 1: has to accommodate your new lifestyle. You have to have
Speaker 1: like fast, It's like carrying the books.
Speaker 2: It's actually and everyone keeps writing to me like I
Speaker 2: don't I've never heard of the Kindle invention, like we
Speaker 2: don't like you know what I mean, Cause I did
Speaker 2: make a video. I go, fuck, like I wanted to
Speaker 2: wear a cuter purse today, but I can't because I
Speaker 2: have to carry this book around and people are like Kindle, Kindle,
Speaker 2: and it's like no, my purses are tinier than I want,
Speaker 2: Like fuck, I know what I don't want that.
Speaker 4: I want the book, yeah, the.
Speaker 1: Book, yeah, yeah, And I think even like a little
Speaker 1: tell far is not going to fit a kindle so exactly.
Speaker 4: So I had to like bring out my Mark Jacob's
Speaker 4: bag out. But this new one's going to really flip
Speaker 4: the script.
Speaker 2: I like the way you reacted about the soul cyculture,
Speaker 2: like that's so perfect, Like I was, I see it
Speaker 2: all in my head, you being like what and her
Speaker 2: being like stop and like taking out her phone and
Speaker 2: like ordering it for you right there, Like I love it,
Speaker 2: even if that's not how it happened. Don't tell me that, no,
Speaker 2: And then I sent her the photo of Hudson with
Speaker 2: the bag and she goes, why do you think I.
Speaker 4: Bought the bag. I go, no, for sure, for sure.
Speaker 1: Of course you're meeting your people because these are the
Speaker 1: same people that go.
Speaker 4: To the heater rivalry rides. I would ASSU.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean we're right now, we're in a we're
Speaker 2: in a different word. Yes, I hope to get more.
Speaker 2: Not everyone is mentally unwell like me.
Speaker 1: It's like, but plenty are plenty are Okay, let's get
Speaker 1: going to our what would su your peg do? This
Speaker 1: is and rape is bad? Yeah? Yeah, I mean that's
Speaker 1: and I guess you in in this episode, right.
Speaker 2: But we didn't even talk about the sixty two million.
Speaker 4: Hits on the rape website oh my, which isn't even news.
Speaker 2: I feel like that came out a few months ago
Speaker 2: to like like there was a different website, Like are
Speaker 2: we just two in the know? Like I was like,
Speaker 2: this is I mean, I'm glad people are like reacting
Speaker 2: I guess attention to it.
Speaker 4: But yeah, that was when I saw that. I was like, yeah,
Speaker 4: didn't we know that?
Speaker 1: But then different people that are like outside of just
Speaker 1: my normal fred, like friends that are hyper feminists were
Speaker 1: sharing it and I was like, Okay, the word is out.
Speaker 4: The word is out that the men are bad. On
Speaker 4: the internet.
Speaker 1: Did you also see the thing where Giselle Pelico was
Speaker 1: like doing an interview in The Little Boy, So why
Speaker 1: did you keep your last name?
Speaker 4: I did, but I didn't watch it. Oh it was
Speaker 4: just really cute.
Speaker 1: So she just was like I did it for my
Speaker 1: children and my grandchildren, and like this case is like
Speaker 1: well known and I want people to know like what happened,
Speaker 1: Like you know, She's just so like like inspiring honestly,
Speaker 1: but like the Little Boy was like there and I
Speaker 1: was like, I'm glad that at least one little boy
Speaker 1: is in the room and kind of has some like
Speaker 1: context of like what this woman went through, hopefully not
Speaker 1: all the details, but like you know, and asked for
Speaker 1: this question and she like responded to him. It was
Speaker 1: so cute in French, of course, which I know we
Speaker 1: had some French in this episode and it wasn't your favorite.
Speaker 4: But okay, let's get to what would ineter peg do.
Speaker 1: This is our weekly segment where we direct you to
Speaker 1: a book, an article, an organization something to give you
Speaker 1: more info about what we talked about in today's episode.
Speaker 1: And this week I wanted to point you guys to
Speaker 1: this segment from the Ted Radio hour episode How does
Speaker 1: Your Brain Perceive the World, And the segment is called
Speaker 1: We're Told eyewitness testimony isn't really, but new science says
Speaker 1: it might be. And it's a lecture given by a
Speaker 1: psychology professor named John Wixted who says that throughout the
Speaker 1: course of a criminal investigation and an eyewitnesses memory can
Speaker 1: be influenced and altered, but under the right conditions that
Speaker 1: testimony can be reliable. And the talk goes on to
Speaker 1: explore how memory gets contaminated over time with different ideas
Speaker 1: and influences being introduced, but an uncontaminated, fresh eyewitness statement
Speaker 1: can still be very accurate. So if you want to
Speaker 1: listen to the talk, head over to MPR dot org.
Speaker 1: The link is in our show notes and it will
Speaker 1: be posted in a story on our Instagram over it
Speaker 1: that's messed Up pod and all of our wwspds get
Speaker 1: saved in a highlight on our Instagram page named as such,
Speaker 1: and you can always check out what we've posted for
Speaker 1: episodes past.
Speaker 2: And next week we will be doing Mia Kulpa and
Speaker 2: that's going to be season twenty, episode nine, and I'll
Speaker 2: say the crime can't wait.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, the crimes a goodie. We'll see you guys
Speaker 1: next week.
Speaker 2: That's Messed Up as an Exactly Right production.
Speaker 1: If you have compliments you'd like to give us or
Speaker 1: episodes you'd like us to cover, shoot us an email
Speaker 1: it That's Messed uppod at gmail dot com. Listen to
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Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 2: Follow the podcast on Instagram at That's Messed Up Pod,
Speaker 2: and follow us personally at Kara Klank and.
Speaker 4: At Glitter Cheese.
Speaker 1: As always, please see our show notes for sources and
Speaker 1: more information.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much to our senior producer Casey O'Brien
Speaker 2: and our associate producer Christina Chamberlain, and to.
Speaker 1: Our mixer John Bradley and our guest booker Patrick Cottner,
Speaker 1: and to Henry Kaperski for our theme song and Carly
Speaker 1: gen Andrews for our artwork. Thank you to our executive
Speaker 1: producers Georgia hard Start, Karen Kilgareff, Daniel Kramer, and everybody
Speaker 1: at Exactly Right Media.
Speaker 3: Duc dun