1 00:00:02,520 --> 00:00:06,400 Speaker 1: Happy Saturday, eighty one years ago today. On June twentieth, 2 00:00:06,480 --> 00:00:10,720 Speaker 1: nineteen forty five, the US Secretary of State approved Werner 3 00:00:10,800 --> 00:00:14,000 Speaker 1: von Brown and other German rocket scientists to enter the 4 00:00:14,120 --> 00:00:18,720 Speaker 1: United States under a program called Operation paper Clip. This 5 00:00:18,880 --> 00:00:22,439 Speaker 1: was a secret program to bring German scientists, engineers, and 6 00:00:22,480 --> 00:00:25,280 Speaker 1: other specialists to the United States to live and work, 7 00:00:25,440 --> 00:00:28,800 Speaker 1: including ones who had deep ties to the Nazi Party 8 00:00:28,920 --> 00:00:33,080 Speaker 1: and war crimes. Our episode on Operation paper Clip came 9 00:00:33,080 --> 00:00:35,519 Speaker 1: out on May twenty fourth, twenty twenty one, and it 10 00:00:35,600 --> 00:00:41,320 Speaker 1: is Today's Saturday Classic Welcome to Stuff You Missed in 11 00:00:41,400 --> 00:00:51,839 Speaker 1: History Class, a production of iHeartRadio. Hello, and welcome to 12 00:00:51,880 --> 00:00:53,400 Speaker 1: the podcast. I'm Tracy V. 13 00:00:53,520 --> 00:00:55,360 Speaker 2: Wilson and I'm Holly Friday. 14 00:00:55,840 --> 00:00:59,480 Speaker 1: Today we are going to talk about Operation paper Clip, 15 00:00:59,600 --> 00:01:03,200 Speaker 1: which is also known as Project paper Clip. And this 16 00:01:03,400 --> 00:01:07,080 Speaker 1: was the US effort to bring German scientists to the 17 00:01:07,200 --> 00:01:10,440 Speaker 1: United States after World War Two. And to be clear, 18 00:01:10,480 --> 00:01:14,520 Speaker 1: the US was definitely not the only Allied nation doing this, 19 00:01:15,360 --> 00:01:18,679 Speaker 1: as examples, the UK and France and the Soviet Union 20 00:01:18,800 --> 00:01:22,920 Speaker 1: all had their own programs to try to exploit German 21 00:01:23,040 --> 00:01:27,360 Speaker 1: scientific and engineering knowledge after the war, but in most 22 00:01:27,440 --> 00:01:32,080 Speaker 1: cases those other programs involved specialists and researchers who were 23 00:01:32,120 --> 00:01:36,520 Speaker 1: either working in occupied Germany or they were sent back 24 00:01:36,560 --> 00:01:39,560 Speaker 1: to Germany after a few years of supervised work in 25 00:01:39,600 --> 00:01:43,800 Speaker 1: another country. But for the United States program, a lot 26 00:01:43,880 --> 00:01:46,360 Speaker 1: of the people who were part of it ultimately became 27 00:01:46,520 --> 00:01:50,720 Speaker 1: permanent residents or citizens of the US, and this included 28 00:01:50,720 --> 00:01:54,200 Speaker 1: people who were ardent Nazis or who had committed war crimes. 29 00:01:55,440 --> 00:01:58,400 Speaker 1: A lot of the time, the rocket scientists are the 30 00:01:58,440 --> 00:02:02,120 Speaker 1: ones who get the most just discussion around this program today, 31 00:02:02,120 --> 00:02:05,920 Speaker 1: so people like Werner von Brown, who developed ballistic missiles 32 00:02:05,960 --> 00:02:09,320 Speaker 1: for the US Army before joining the space program at NASA. 33 00:02:10,040 --> 00:02:13,200 Speaker 1: But paper Clippers really came from a wide range of 34 00:02:13,240 --> 00:02:18,480 Speaker 1: scientific and engineering specialties, including flight, medicine and chemical warfare 35 00:02:18,600 --> 00:02:23,080 Speaker 1: and aeronautics. They worked in military and in civilian roles. 36 00:02:23,520 --> 00:02:28,000 Speaker 1: It was like every layer of American industry and the 37 00:02:28,000 --> 00:02:33,080 Speaker 1: military industrial complex. When I started on this episode, my 38 00:02:33,360 --> 00:02:36,320 Speaker 1: intent was that today we were going to talk about 39 00:02:36,880 --> 00:02:40,280 Speaker 1: the context for this program and its precursor, which was 40 00:02:40,280 --> 00:02:44,280 Speaker 1: called Operation Overcast, and then the program itself and some 41 00:02:44,360 --> 00:02:47,600 Speaker 1: of the most prominent and notorious people who were part 42 00:02:47,680 --> 00:02:50,960 Speaker 1: of it. That turned out to be too much for 43 00:02:51,040 --> 00:02:55,560 Speaker 1: one episode, which people listening to me list all those 44 00:02:55,600 --> 00:03:00,359 Speaker 1: things off may not be that surprised by. So this 45 00:03:00,440 --> 00:03:03,040 Speaker 1: episode is going to whack through the arc of this 46 00:03:03,120 --> 00:03:07,959 Speaker 1: program's creation and its existence, and we'll have more about 47 00:03:07,960 --> 00:03:11,639 Speaker 1: some of the specific scientists and engineers and other specialties 48 00:03:12,200 --> 00:03:17,800 Speaker 1: in another episode sometime soon, possibly the next episode, but 49 00:03:17,960 --> 00:03:20,639 Speaker 1: since it's not written yet, I don't want to promise anything. 50 00:03:22,400 --> 00:03:24,200 Speaker 1: This is one of those things that became clear at 51 00:03:24,200 --> 00:03:26,839 Speaker 1: like three o'clock yesterday afternoon that this could not all 52 00:03:26,880 --> 00:03:30,679 Speaker 1: be one episode. So that means that while there will 53 00:03:30,680 --> 00:03:34,320 Speaker 1: be some references to some Nazi atrocities during World War 54 00:03:34,360 --> 00:03:38,440 Speaker 1: Two and the general era of the nineteen thirties and forties, 55 00:03:39,080 --> 00:03:41,880 Speaker 1: there's there's not as much detail about the specifics in 56 00:03:41,880 --> 00:03:44,880 Speaker 1: this particular episode. It is something that will be discussed 57 00:03:44,880 --> 00:03:49,000 Speaker 1: more in a future episode about the researchers themselves. 58 00:03:49,600 --> 00:03:51,880 Speaker 2: So to establish a bit of background on this subject. 59 00:03:52,000 --> 00:03:55,040 Speaker 2: In June of nineteen forty two, Adolf Hitler issued the 60 00:03:55,120 --> 00:03:59,000 Speaker 2: Decree of the Furor on the Reich Research Council. It read, 61 00:03:59,080 --> 00:04:02,840 Speaker 2: in part quote, the necessity to expand all available forces 62 00:04:02,880 --> 00:04:06,160 Speaker 2: to highest efficiency in the interest of the state requires 63 00:04:06,640 --> 00:04:10,000 Speaker 2: not only in peacetime but also, and especially in wartime, 64 00:04:10,440 --> 00:04:15,040 Speaker 2: the concentrated effort of scientific research and its channelization toward 65 00:04:15,080 --> 00:04:18,200 Speaker 2: the goal to be aspired. It then went on to say, 66 00:04:18,839 --> 00:04:21,640 Speaker 2: leading men of science above all are to make research 67 00:04:21,680 --> 00:04:25,599 Speaker 2: fruitful for warfare by working together in their special fields. 68 00:04:26,200 --> 00:04:29,760 Speaker 2: In nineteen forty four he issued another decree, and this 69 00:04:29,839 --> 00:04:33,039 Speaker 2: one called for the development of weapons and equipment that 70 00:04:33,200 --> 00:04:39,200 Speaker 2: had quote revolutionary new characteristics. These would put Germany ahead 71 00:04:39,400 --> 00:04:44,200 Speaker 2: of its enemies. Nazi propaganda framed these new weapons and 72 00:04:44,279 --> 00:04:49,800 Speaker 2: equipment as Vunderwaffe or wonder weapons. Also in nineteen forty four, 73 00:04:50,120 --> 00:04:55,000 Speaker 2: Germany introduced the rocket power measureschment Emmy one sixty three, 74 00:04:55,520 --> 00:05:00,760 Speaker 2: which was the world's first rocket powered fighter, the two 75 00:05:00,880 --> 00:05:04,560 Speaker 2: sixty two, which was the world's first operational jet fighter, 76 00:05:05,279 --> 00:05:08,679 Speaker 2: the V one flying bomb, which was the world's first 77 00:05:08,760 --> 00:05:11,880 Speaker 2: cruise missile, and the V two rocket, which was the 78 00:05:11,880 --> 00:05:16,679 Speaker 2: world's first ballistic missile. So a lot of wartime firsts there, 79 00:05:17,360 --> 00:05:20,599 Speaker 2: and it has been widely repeated that if these technologies 80 00:05:20,680 --> 00:05:23,239 Speaker 2: had been introduced just a few months earlier in the war, 81 00:05:23,839 --> 00:05:26,919 Speaker 2: the access Powers might well have won, and there's some 82 00:05:27,000 --> 00:05:31,080 Speaker 2: debate over whether that's really true, but Allied military officials 83 00:05:31,120 --> 00:05:34,320 Speaker 2: definitely saw all of this and any other innovations that 84 00:05:34,360 --> 00:05:37,200 Speaker 2: Germany might have had in the works is a huge threat. 85 00:05:37,880 --> 00:05:40,760 Speaker 2: There were concerns that Germany's ultimate goal for the V 86 00:05:40,800 --> 00:05:43,520 Speaker 2: two rocket was for it to carry a nuclear payload, 87 00:05:44,000 --> 00:05:47,200 Speaker 2: and concerns that it was sharing its secrets and technologies 88 00:05:47,240 --> 00:05:51,080 Speaker 2: with Japan. So the Allied powers made it a priority 89 00:05:51,200 --> 00:05:54,680 Speaker 2: to try to capture as much German research and technology 90 00:05:54,720 --> 00:05:58,039 Speaker 2: as possible, both to replicate it for themselves and to 91 00:05:58,080 --> 00:06:02,520 Speaker 2: try to develop countermeasures. Especially after the D Day invasion 92 00:06:02,640 --> 00:06:06,479 Speaker 2: started on June six, nineteen forty four, teams really searched 93 00:06:06,480 --> 00:06:11,720 Speaker 2: for German research facilities and weapons factories. They copied blueprints 94 00:06:11,720 --> 00:06:17,120 Speaker 2: and technical materials, They questioned scientists, and confiscated weapons and technology. 95 00:06:17,720 --> 00:06:21,839 Speaker 2: This included disassembling and removing big pieces of equipment like 96 00:06:21,960 --> 00:06:25,760 Speaker 2: V two rockets and wind tunnels and aircraft. This process 97 00:06:25,839 --> 00:06:29,160 Speaker 2: really accelerated in the last months of the war. The 98 00:06:29,279 --> 00:06:33,480 Speaker 2: UK and the US formed the Combined Intelligence Objective Subcommittee 99 00:06:33,520 --> 00:06:37,320 Speaker 2: to coordinate a huge sweep for German military secrets and equipment. 100 00:06:38,000 --> 00:06:41,600 Speaker 2: This really escalated after Hitler issued the Destructive Measures on 101 00:06:41,680 --> 00:06:45,680 Speaker 2: Reich Territory Decree, also known as the Nero decree that 102 00:06:45,800 --> 00:06:49,799 Speaker 2: happened on March nineteenth, nineteen forty five, and this decree 103 00:06:49,800 --> 00:06:52,280 Speaker 2: called for the destruction of anything that could be used 104 00:06:52,279 --> 00:06:56,760 Speaker 2: by enemies of Germany. British and American units became increasingly 105 00:06:56,800 --> 00:07:00,599 Speaker 2: competitive as they tried to capture resources before Germany could 106 00:07:00,600 --> 00:07:04,400 Speaker 2: destroy them and before Soviet forces who had similar objectives 107 00:07:04,400 --> 00:07:07,200 Speaker 2: could move into an area. Yeah, in some cases it 108 00:07:07,240 --> 00:07:10,080 Speaker 2: was literally an area that the Soviets were supposed to 109 00:07:10,120 --> 00:07:14,320 Speaker 2: be occupying, but British or American forces or both together 110 00:07:14,360 --> 00:07:16,000 Speaker 2: would be like, we got to get as much of 111 00:07:16,040 --> 00:07:20,720 Speaker 2: this stuff ourselves as possible before they get here. As 112 00:07:20,800 --> 00:07:21,280 Speaker 2: all of this. 113 00:07:21,360 --> 00:07:24,760 Speaker 1: Was happening, military officials also started to shift their focus 114 00:07:24,800 --> 00:07:28,040 Speaker 1: a little bit because no matter how many blueprints or 115 00:07:28,080 --> 00:07:32,040 Speaker 1: technical manuals or formulas or actual pieces of technology they 116 00:07:32,040 --> 00:07:36,560 Speaker 1: managed to secure, and no matter how many specialists they interviewed, 117 00:07:36,840 --> 00:07:40,800 Speaker 1: that still wouldn't be the same as having ongoing access 118 00:07:40,880 --> 00:07:44,280 Speaker 1: to the minds behind all of this stuff. So the 119 00:07:44,320 --> 00:07:49,440 Speaker 1: Combined Intelligence Objectives Subcommittee started developing lists of people to 120 00:07:49,560 --> 00:07:53,440 Speaker 1: target and bring in for more long term work. Initially, 121 00:07:53,520 --> 00:07:56,920 Speaker 1: there was a blacklist of targets of military value and 122 00:07:57,120 --> 00:08:01,280 Speaker 1: a gray list of targets of quote vital post war interest, 123 00:08:01,760 --> 00:08:05,680 Speaker 1: but those people were not of immediate military value. Often, though, 124 00:08:05,720 --> 00:08:08,640 Speaker 1: these lists are kind of lumped together as just the Blacklist. 125 00:08:09,560 --> 00:08:11,880 Speaker 1: One source for the names on these lists was a 126 00:08:11,920 --> 00:08:16,600 Speaker 1: document prepared by senior Gestapo officer Werner Osenberg, who supervised 127 00:08:16,640 --> 00:08:19,960 Speaker 1: the planning office of the Reich Research Council. He had 128 00:08:19,960 --> 00:08:23,280 Speaker 1: compiled a list of about fifteen thousand names, part of 129 00:08:23,320 --> 00:08:26,880 Speaker 1: which was discovered in an unflushed toilet in March of 130 00:08:26,960 --> 00:08:31,200 Speaker 1: nineteen forty five. When Ousenberg himself was captured, he surrendered 131 00:08:31,200 --> 00:08:34,840 Speaker 1: the entire list, along with documents that detailed the qualifications 132 00:08:34,880 --> 00:08:37,959 Speaker 1: of the people on that list and other documents related 133 00:08:37,960 --> 00:08:41,840 Speaker 1: to the German war effort. The US Army established the 134 00:08:41,880 --> 00:08:46,480 Speaker 1: Field Information Agency Technical or FIAT to help it exploit 135 00:08:47,120 --> 00:08:51,960 Speaker 1: German knowledge and resources, including finding and capturing people from 136 00:08:52,000 --> 00:08:56,400 Speaker 1: this list, and the term exploit comes up over and 137 00:08:56,480 --> 00:09:00,240 Speaker 1: over in descriptions of this whole phase of the projected 138 00:09:00,320 --> 00:09:04,240 Speaker 1: Militaries and governments were increasingly interpreting all of this as 139 00:09:04,280 --> 00:09:10,439 Speaker 1: a form of German reparations for the war, and German scientists, engineers, technicians, 140 00:09:10,440 --> 00:09:15,080 Speaker 1: and researchers were all resources to exploit As part of 141 00:09:15,120 --> 00:09:17,000 Speaker 1: those reparations. 142 00:09:17,280 --> 00:09:22,440 Speaker 2: Supreme Headquarters Allied Expeditionary Force had established internment camps for 143 00:09:22,520 --> 00:09:27,079 Speaker 2: scientists and engineers in Germany and in formerly German occupied territory. 144 00:09:27,800 --> 00:09:31,080 Speaker 2: Some of these camps housed hundreds of people, and beyond 145 00:09:31,120 --> 00:09:33,920 Speaker 2: interrogating them about their work and getting to interpret and 146 00:09:33,960 --> 00:09:38,120 Speaker 2: explain technical documents, at first officials weren't quite sure what 147 00:09:38,240 --> 00:09:38,880 Speaker 2: to do with them. 148 00:09:39,600 --> 00:09:43,640 Speaker 1: Simply letting people go after they'd been interrogated wasn't really 149 00:09:43,720 --> 00:09:47,800 Speaker 1: an option. The people who had developed the aircraft, bombs, 150 00:09:47,880 --> 00:09:51,240 Speaker 1: and chemical and biological weapons for the Third Reich still 151 00:09:51,280 --> 00:09:54,360 Speaker 1: presented a threat. And then, on top of that, the 152 00:09:54,400 --> 00:09:57,760 Speaker 1: Potsdam Agreement, which was signed in August of nineteen forty five, 153 00:09:57,880 --> 00:10:02,200 Speaker 1: called for the quote complete disarmament and demilitarization of Germany 154 00:10:02,720 --> 00:10:06,320 Speaker 1: and the elimination or control of all German industry that 155 00:10:06,400 --> 00:10:09,920 Speaker 1: could be used for military production. And that meant that 156 00:10:09,920 --> 00:10:12,679 Speaker 1: for a lot of these specialists, the industries that they 157 00:10:12,679 --> 00:10:16,559 Speaker 1: had been working in, as well as other related industries 158 00:10:16,600 --> 00:10:18,880 Speaker 1: where they might have been able to find jobs, those 159 00:10:18,960 --> 00:10:20,800 Speaker 1: just would not exist anymore. So it wasn't like they 160 00:10:20,840 --> 00:10:25,560 Speaker 1: could interrogate someone, release them, keep tabs on them. To 161 00:10:25,640 --> 00:10:30,040 Speaker 1: make sure they were not doing anything dangerous while they 162 00:10:30,120 --> 00:10:32,680 Speaker 1: went to some job they had gotten, because those industries 163 00:10:32,679 --> 00:10:36,200 Speaker 1: they would have worked in no longer were to exist. 164 00:10:36,559 --> 00:10:39,200 Speaker 2: Although the US and the UK were allies and the 165 00:10:39,240 --> 00:10:42,920 Speaker 2: Combined Intelligence Subjective Subcommittee had been established as a joint 166 00:10:42,960 --> 00:10:47,640 Speaker 2: effort between the two nations, over time they became increasingly competitive. 167 00:10:48,040 --> 00:10:51,760 Speaker 2: For example, on April thirteenth, nineteen forty five, Colonel Donald L. 168 00:10:51,800 --> 00:10:55,000 Speaker 2: Putt was led to the Herman Gerring Aeronautical Research Center 169 00:10:55,080 --> 00:10:59,080 Speaker 2: at Vulcan Rode, which had been camouflaged under trees. This 170 00:10:59,240 --> 00:11:02,000 Speaker 2: secret facility was in an area that was supposed to 171 00:11:02,000 --> 00:11:05,640 Speaker 2: be under British control, so American forces worked as quickly 172 00:11:05,720 --> 00:11:08,559 Speaker 2: as possible to secure as much as they could before 173 00:11:08,640 --> 00:11:09,720 Speaker 2: the British arrived. 174 00:11:10,240 --> 00:11:13,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, this kind of stuff led to various toe stepping, 175 00:11:13,920 --> 00:11:18,520 Speaker 1: basically from a military perspective, and then the United States 176 00:11:18,520 --> 00:11:22,040 Speaker 1: having to work with Britain to say, okay, we took 177 00:11:22,080 --> 00:11:24,120 Speaker 1: all these V two rockets that you were supposed to 178 00:11:24,120 --> 00:11:27,280 Speaker 1: get access to, so we will work with you to 179 00:11:27,320 --> 00:11:29,960 Speaker 1: figure out how they work and to launch some so 180 00:11:30,000 --> 00:11:33,400 Speaker 1: you can see how they work. Some of this was 181 00:11:33,520 --> 00:11:37,920 Speaker 1: specifically focused on trying to secure information and weapons that 182 00:11:37,960 --> 00:11:40,520 Speaker 1: could be useful in the war in the Pacific, which 183 00:11:40,600 --> 00:11:44,400 Speaker 1: was still ongoing. On April twenty second, nineteen forty five, 184 00:11:44,440 --> 00:11:49,920 Speaker 1: the US Army Air Forces Intelligence Service launched Operation Lusty, 185 00:11:50,320 --> 00:11:54,040 Speaker 1: which stood for Luftwaffa Secret Technology and that was to 186 00:11:54,160 --> 00:11:57,200 Speaker 1: secure technical and scientific intelligence that could be used in 187 00:11:57,240 --> 00:12:00,880 Speaker 1: the war against Japan. The US started cost being German 188 00:12:01,000 --> 00:12:04,040 Speaker 1: munitions that had been used against Britain during the Blitz. 189 00:12:04,600 --> 00:12:07,840 Speaker 1: By the time Germany surrendered on May eighth of nineteen 190 00:12:07,960 --> 00:12:11,800 Speaker 1: forty five, the US had captured most of Germany's most 191 00:12:11,880 --> 00:12:16,800 Speaker 1: respected aircraft engineers. Two days later, Allied forces intercepted the 192 00:12:16,840 --> 00:12:20,440 Speaker 1: German submarine U eight five eight, which surrendered in Delaware 193 00:12:20,520 --> 00:12:24,800 Speaker 1: on May fourteenth. It was carrying civilian engineers to Japan, 194 00:12:25,000 --> 00:12:30,679 Speaker 1: along with advanced weaponry and supplies, including an entire disassembled aircraft. 195 00:12:31,000 --> 00:12:34,800 Speaker 1: Among its cargo were twelve hundred pounds of uranium oxide. 196 00:12:35,240 --> 00:12:38,200 Speaker 1: This was most likely meant to be used for aircraft fuel, 197 00:12:38,600 --> 00:12:41,960 Speaker 1: but it raised fears of the possibility of nuclear weapons development. 198 00:12:42,760 --> 00:12:47,559 Speaker 1: So this made the ongoing exploitation of German researchers more urgent, 199 00:12:48,120 --> 00:12:50,480 Speaker 1: and officials started to question whether some of this work 200 00:12:50,600 --> 00:12:54,160 Speaker 1: might be done more effectively in the United States. Although 201 00:12:54,200 --> 00:12:59,120 Speaker 1: it was generally agreed that exploiting German researchers in Germany 202 00:12:59,400 --> 00:13:03,840 Speaker 1: was vital and was generally ethical, the idea of bringing 203 00:13:03,880 --> 00:13:07,160 Speaker 1: people into the US was a lot more controversial. On 204 00:13:07,240 --> 00:13:10,640 Speaker 1: May twenty eighth, Under Secretary of War Robert Patterson wrote 205 00:13:10,679 --> 00:13:13,560 Speaker 1: a letter to Admiral William D. Lahy which read, in 206 00:13:13,600 --> 00:13:18,000 Speaker 1: part quote, I strongly favored doing everything possible to utilize 207 00:13:18,080 --> 00:13:21,520 Speaker 1: fully in the prosecution of the war against Japan all 208 00:13:21,679 --> 00:13:25,160 Speaker 1: information that can be obtained from Germany or any other source. 209 00:13:25,720 --> 00:13:28,400 Speaker 1: These men are enemies, and it must be assumed they 210 00:13:28,440 --> 00:13:32,080 Speaker 1: are capable of sabotaging our war effort. Bringing them to 211 00:13:32,240 --> 00:13:37,160 Speaker 1: this country raises delicate questions, including the strong resentment of 212 00:13:37,200 --> 00:13:41,600 Speaker 1: the American public, who might misunderstand the purpose of bringing 213 00:13:41,640 --> 00:13:45,199 Speaker 1: them here and the treatment accorded them, But the idea 214 00:13:45,320 --> 00:13:49,640 Speaker 1: of military necessity ultimately won out over these and other concerns. 215 00:13:50,200 --> 00:13:53,320 Speaker 1: After this letter, the War Department General Staff held a 216 00:13:53,360 --> 00:13:55,600 Speaker 1: meeting at the Pentagon to develop a plan to give 217 00:13:55,640 --> 00:13:59,880 Speaker 1: some German researchers, specifically ones who were not Nazis or 218 00:13:59,880 --> 00:14:03,960 Speaker 1: war criminals, temporary contracts to work in the United States 219 00:14:04,160 --> 00:14:06,079 Speaker 1: under protective military custody. 220 00:14:07,080 --> 00:14:07,840 Speaker 2: We'll talk more. 221 00:14:07,679 --> 00:14:20,800 Speaker 1: About that after a sponsor break. The first project to 222 00:14:20,880 --> 00:14:25,320 Speaker 1: bring German scientists to the US to work under a 223 00:14:25,400 --> 00:14:30,000 Speaker 1: temporary contract was called Project Overcast, and it was launched 224 00:14:30,040 --> 00:14:34,360 Speaker 1: on July twentieth, nineteen forty five. Under this program, German 225 00:14:34,480 --> 00:14:37,320 Speaker 1: specialists and researchers would be brought to the US, where 226 00:14:37,320 --> 00:14:42,400 Speaker 1: they would temporarily work under military supervision before eventually returning 227 00:14:42,480 --> 00:14:45,840 Speaker 1: to Germany. Each person assigned a contract was supposed to 228 00:14:45,960 --> 00:14:49,120 Speaker 1: undergo a background check to confirm that they were not 229 00:14:49,320 --> 00:14:54,280 Speaker 1: an ardent Nazi. Like the word exploit, That phrase Nazi 230 00:14:54,400 --> 00:14:56,480 Speaker 1: is a term that comes up a lot in documents 231 00:14:56,520 --> 00:15:01,440 Speaker 1: about Operation Paperclip and its related programs. Officials recognized that 232 00:15:01,560 --> 00:15:05,320 Speaker 1: under Adolph Hitler, Germany had been a single party dictatorship, 233 00:15:05,680 --> 00:15:08,600 Speaker 1: and that at least some involvement with Nazism was essentially 234 00:15:08,680 --> 00:15:13,080 Speaker 1: mandatory for non Jewish Germans. The researchers, who the US 235 00:15:13,120 --> 00:15:16,000 Speaker 1: saw as the most skilled and important, were of course 236 00:15:16,520 --> 00:15:18,800 Speaker 1: seen the same way by the Nazis, so in many 237 00:15:18,840 --> 00:15:22,200 Speaker 1: cases they had been targeted for leadership roles and rewarded 238 00:15:22,240 --> 00:15:24,840 Speaker 1: with honors and awards that were bestowed by the party. 239 00:15:25,600 --> 00:15:28,000 Speaker 1: Some people who joined the party also did so out 240 00:15:28,000 --> 00:15:31,920 Speaker 1: of a sense of self preservation or even opportunism. So 241 00:15:32,000 --> 00:15:36,360 Speaker 1: with all this in mind, the general conclusion among American 242 00:15:36,400 --> 00:15:39,480 Speaker 1: military authorities was that it was just not feasible to 243 00:15:39,600 --> 00:15:42,560 Speaker 1: restrict anyone who had any connection at all to the 244 00:15:42,600 --> 00:15:48,640 Speaker 1: Nazi Party. That would leave them with no researchers to exploit. Instead, 245 00:15:48,720 --> 00:15:53,440 Speaker 1: the focus was on banning ardent Nazis, and ardent Nazis 246 00:15:53,480 --> 00:15:56,320 Speaker 1: were described as people who had joined the Nazi Party 247 00:15:56,440 --> 00:16:00,680 Speaker 1: before Hitler declared himself, Burier, people who were leaders in 248 00:16:00,720 --> 00:16:03,320 Speaker 1: the party or in one of its affiliated organizations like 249 00:16:03,400 --> 00:16:06,880 Speaker 1: the SS or the Essay, people who had been convicted 250 00:16:07,000 --> 00:16:10,880 Speaker 1: in a post war de notification court, or people who 251 00:16:10,880 --> 00:16:13,480 Speaker 1: had been accused or convicted of war crimes. 252 00:16:14,040 --> 00:16:18,680 Speaker 2: This process involved interviews, examining people's records, and confirming that 253 00:16:18,720 --> 00:16:21,440 Speaker 2: they were not on the Central Registry of War Criminals 254 00:16:21,440 --> 00:16:24,800 Speaker 2: and Security Suspects that's also known as the crow Cast List. 255 00:16:25,520 --> 00:16:29,520 Speaker 2: This list was described as quote an unwieldy monster archive. 256 00:16:29,920 --> 00:16:33,280 Speaker 2: It was often vague, it was full of undocumented allegations. 257 00:16:33,520 --> 00:16:35,960 Speaker 2: There's a lot of hearsay. But in terms of the 258 00:16:36,000 --> 00:16:39,440 Speaker 2: people conducting these background checks. It became a useful checkof 259 00:16:39,480 --> 00:16:42,680 Speaker 2: to say this person was not a suspected war criminal. 260 00:16:43,320 --> 00:16:48,320 Speaker 1: This program, Operation Overcast, grew really quickly. It expanded to 261 00:16:48,440 --> 00:16:53,600 Speaker 1: include a huge assortment of government and military programs and 262 00:16:53,760 --> 00:16:58,360 Speaker 1: their associated acronyms. There were a lot of Every book 263 00:16:58,360 --> 00:17:00,760 Speaker 1: that I read on this had just a of acronyms 264 00:17:00,760 --> 00:17:03,600 Speaker 1: at the beginning and what they all did for The 265 00:17:03,760 --> 00:17:09,600 Speaker 1: Joint Intelligence Objective Agency that has abbreviated JIOA and usually 266 00:17:09,640 --> 00:17:12,959 Speaker 1: said JOA was created as part of the Joint Chiefs 267 00:17:13,000 --> 00:17:16,840 Speaker 1: of Staff during this expansion, and this agency directed this 268 00:17:16,960 --> 00:17:23,159 Speaker 1: whole operation and brought about sixteen hundred German and Austrian scientists, engineers, 269 00:17:23,200 --> 00:17:25,919 Speaker 1: and researchers to the US between nineteen forty five and 270 00:17:26,000 --> 00:17:30,000 Speaker 1: nineteen seventy. The Office of Strategic Services and the Joint 271 00:17:30,080 --> 00:17:34,320 Speaker 1: Intelligence Committee were involved in this as well. Japan formally 272 00:17:34,359 --> 00:17:38,320 Speaker 1: surrendered on September second, nineteen forty five, but even though 273 00:17:38,359 --> 00:17:41,400 Speaker 1: that ended the war, the effort to bring German scientists 274 00:17:41,440 --> 00:17:45,120 Speaker 1: to the US continued. By January of nineteen forty six, 275 00:17:45,200 --> 00:17:48,240 Speaker 1: one hundred sixty German specialists had been brought to the 276 00:17:48,359 --> 00:17:52,440 Speaker 1: United States. One hundred and fifteen of them were rocket specialists, 277 00:17:52,560 --> 00:17:56,399 Speaker 1: including Werner von Braun, and the program got bigger and 278 00:17:56,520 --> 00:18:00,399 Speaker 1: broader from there. As relations between the US and the 279 00:18:00,520 --> 00:18:04,680 Speaker 1: USSR devolved into the Cold War, the idea of keeping 280 00:18:04,720 --> 00:18:08,240 Speaker 1: the other side from getting access to German researchers and 281 00:18:08,320 --> 00:18:12,159 Speaker 1: technology became more and more important to both nations. The 282 00:18:12,280 --> 00:18:15,480 Speaker 1: United States started to see an eventual armed conflict with 283 00:18:15,560 --> 00:18:20,880 Speaker 1: the Soviet Union as inevitable advances in Soviet nuclear research 284 00:18:21,040 --> 00:18:23,919 Speaker 1: led to fears that the Soviets had been getting aid 285 00:18:24,000 --> 00:18:27,080 Speaker 1: from German scientists on this, although it later turned out 286 00:18:27,080 --> 00:18:31,080 Speaker 1: that they were really getting stolen American nuclear secrets. On 287 00:18:31,240 --> 00:18:35,080 Speaker 1: January third of nineteen forty six, the Mirk Report detailing 288 00:18:35,240 --> 00:18:39,280 Speaker 1: biological warfare research in Japan became public, and that led 289 00:18:39,320 --> 00:18:43,320 Speaker 1: for calls for more research into biological agents and their 290 00:18:43,400 --> 00:18:48,159 Speaker 1: countermeasures in the United States, and that was yet another 291 00:18:48,520 --> 00:18:52,960 Speaker 1: specialty of these German researchers. In March of nineteen forty six, 292 00:18:53,200 --> 00:18:57,320 Speaker 1: Project Overcast expanded. It shifted from a limited number of 293 00:18:57,320 --> 00:19:01,760 Speaker 1: people with temporary contracts working under military supervision to between 294 00:19:01,800 --> 00:19:04,520 Speaker 1: eight hundred and one thousand specialists who would be offered 295 00:19:04,600 --> 00:19:08,760 Speaker 1: long term residency in the US and even citizenship. Since 296 00:19:08,800 --> 00:19:11,960 Speaker 1: this was no longer intended as a temporary assignment, the 297 00:19:12,000 --> 00:19:15,240 Speaker 1: researcher's families would be permitted to enter the US permanently 298 00:19:15,359 --> 00:19:20,560 Speaker 1: as well. This was a whole process where Germany was 299 00:19:20,600 --> 00:19:24,639 Speaker 1: being denocified, like people with Nazi ties were being pulled 300 00:19:24,680 --> 00:19:27,840 Speaker 1: out of leadership positions in all of these different industries 301 00:19:27,880 --> 00:19:30,400 Speaker 1: and all of these different contexts, some of the same 302 00:19:30,400 --> 00:19:32,520 Speaker 1: people were being brought to the United States and offered 303 00:19:32,640 --> 00:19:36,199 Speaker 1: US citizenship. So by this point, some of the scientists' 304 00:19:36,240 --> 00:19:38,880 Speaker 1: families who were being housed at a camp in Germany 305 00:19:38,960 --> 00:19:42,600 Speaker 1: had started calling that camp Camp Overcast, and that prompted 306 00:19:42,600 --> 00:19:46,720 Speaker 1: this project's name change to Operation paper Clip or Project 307 00:19:46,800 --> 00:19:50,040 Speaker 1: paper Clip, depending on the source that you're looking at. 308 00:19:50,680 --> 00:19:53,800 Speaker 1: That name came from the paper clips that were used 309 00:19:53,800 --> 00:19:58,120 Speaker 1: to discreetly flag the files of candidates whose backgrounds were 310 00:19:58,160 --> 00:20:01,439 Speaker 1: potentially too damning for them to be allowed into the 311 00:20:01,520 --> 00:20:05,800 Speaker 1: United States. In August, Secretary of State Dean Atchison sent 312 00:20:05,840 --> 00:20:09,560 Speaker 1: a top secret memo to President Harry Truman requesting his 313 00:20:09,680 --> 00:20:13,920 Speaker 1: approval of the interim exploitation of German and Austrian specialists 314 00:20:14,040 --> 00:20:18,359 Speaker 1: under Project paper Clip. The document Truman approved included the 315 00:20:18,400 --> 00:20:22,360 Speaker 1: text of State War Navy Coordinating Committee Document two five 316 00:20:22,480 --> 00:20:26,119 Speaker 1: seven Slash twenty two, which outlined a revised version for 317 00:20:26,200 --> 00:20:29,359 Speaker 1: the expanded paper clip program that had been launched in March. 318 00:20:30,160 --> 00:20:31,040 Speaker 2: This read, in. 319 00:20:31,119 --> 00:20:34,320 Speaker 1: Part quote, Persons proposed to be brought to the US 320 00:20:34,440 --> 00:20:38,000 Speaker 1: here under shall be screened by the Commanding General us 321 00:20:38,200 --> 00:20:43,119 Speaker 1: FET on the basis of available records. No person found 322 00:20:43,280 --> 00:20:46,439 Speaker 1: by the Commanding General us FET to have been a 323 00:20:46,480 --> 00:20:49,760 Speaker 1: member of the Nazi Party and more than a nominal 324 00:20:49,840 --> 00:20:54,520 Speaker 1: participant in its activities, or an active supporter of Nazism 325 00:20:54,600 --> 00:20:58,680 Speaker 1: or militarism, shall be brought to the US here under. However, 326 00:20:59,280 --> 00:21:03,600 Speaker 1: neither possidition or honors awarded a specialist under the Nazi 327 00:21:03,600 --> 00:21:07,720 Speaker 1: regime solely on account of his scientific or technical ability, 328 00:21:07,840 --> 00:21:12,040 Speaker 1: will in themselves be considered sufficient to disqualify a specialist 329 00:21:12,080 --> 00:21:15,159 Speaker 1: for evacuation to the US here Under. Where there is 330 00:21:15,280 --> 00:21:17,879 Speaker 1: doubt as to the qualification of a specialist under the 331 00:21:17,920 --> 00:21:22,440 Speaker 1: preceding sentence, the Commanding General us FET may transport the 332 00:21:22,480 --> 00:21:26,680 Speaker 1: specialist to the US, where further interrogation and screening shall 333 00:21:26,760 --> 00:21:30,400 Speaker 1: be conducted immediately in order to determine such qualification. 334 00:21:31,119 --> 00:21:34,439 Speaker 2: Before October of nineteen forty six. The State Department had 335 00:21:34,520 --> 00:21:38,520 Speaker 2: been pre approving Project paper Clip candidates before they left Europe, 336 00:21:39,040 --> 00:21:41,480 Speaker 2: but after that point the process shifted so that the 337 00:21:41,520 --> 00:21:45,520 Speaker 2: Immigration and Naturalization Service Commissioner handled them. In the US. 338 00:21:46,359 --> 00:21:50,520 Speaker 2: This dropped the State Department preclearance requirement, which was required 339 00:21:50,560 --> 00:21:54,840 Speaker 2: by law in occupied Germany. The Office of Military Government 340 00:21:55,000 --> 00:21:58,720 Speaker 2: US kept security dossiers on all of the candidates, but 341 00:21:58,880 --> 00:22:03,399 Speaker 2: also withheld the most damaging information on many high profile candidates. 342 00:22:04,119 --> 00:22:07,679 Speaker 2: Documents that were declassified in the nineteen seventies and afterward 343 00:22:07,760 --> 00:22:12,120 Speaker 2: revealed that reports on individual candidates were revised to basically 344 00:22:12,160 --> 00:22:15,160 Speaker 2: whitewash their backgrounds. Yes, some of these. 345 00:22:15,119 --> 00:22:18,320 Speaker 1: Revisions were really dramatic. That sort of went from, you know, 346 00:22:19,000 --> 00:22:21,679 Speaker 1: draft one, the first thing in somebody's file being like, 347 00:22:21,720 --> 00:22:26,200 Speaker 1: this person is a dangerous Nazi, and then later on 348 00:22:26,359 --> 00:22:28,480 Speaker 1: being like, ah, this person had no more than a 349 00:22:28,520 --> 00:22:33,159 Speaker 1: nominal involvement in the Nazi Party. So even though this 350 00:22:33,200 --> 00:22:36,199 Speaker 1: whole project had started with a lot of assurances that 351 00:22:36,240 --> 00:22:39,840 Speaker 1: it absolutely would not involve ardent Nazis, in the end, 352 00:22:39,960 --> 00:22:44,040 Speaker 1: paper Clippers included people who had worked directly with Adolf Hitler, 353 00:22:44,400 --> 00:22:48,480 Speaker 1: Heinrich Himmler, and Hermann Gering. Some had been officers in 354 00:22:48,520 --> 00:22:51,000 Speaker 1: the Nazi Party or in the SS or the Essay. 355 00:22:51,520 --> 00:22:55,800 Speaker 1: Some stood trial at Nuremberg or faced other war crimes trials. 356 00:22:56,359 --> 00:22:59,879 Speaker 1: In some cases, people's backgrounds were so egregious that they 357 00:22:59,880 --> 00:23:02,800 Speaker 1: were giving contracts to work for the US military, but 358 00:23:02,840 --> 00:23:05,720 Speaker 1: they did that work while still living in Germany. But 359 00:23:05,800 --> 00:23:09,200 Speaker 1: in other cases, people with pretty similar backgrounds still made 360 00:23:09,200 --> 00:23:10,479 Speaker 1: their way to the US. 361 00:23:11,119 --> 00:23:15,160 Speaker 2: Of course, this whole program was classified. But just as 362 00:23:15,200 --> 00:23:19,240 Speaker 2: this shift was happening from temporary contracts to American citizenship, 363 00:23:19,720 --> 00:23:22,200 Speaker 2: the American public was becoming more aware of what was 364 00:23:22,240 --> 00:23:26,080 Speaker 2: going on. This started thanks to news reports that originated 365 00:23:26,119 --> 00:23:31,360 Speaker 2: from Russian language newspapers being printed in Germany. Soon publications 366 00:23:31,400 --> 00:23:34,280 Speaker 2: like The New York Times and Newsweek were reporting on 367 00:23:34,359 --> 00:23:38,040 Speaker 2: German researchers, some of them Nazis, being brought to the 368 00:23:38,160 --> 00:23:39,960 Speaker 2: US and offered citizenship. 369 00:23:40,760 --> 00:23:43,240 Speaker 1: The War Department tried to respond to all this with 370 00:23:43,320 --> 00:23:47,840 Speaker 1: its own favorable propaganda about the program. It's the whole 371 00:23:47,920 --> 00:23:51,040 Speaker 1: idea of like, no, we're only bringing the good Germans here, 372 00:23:52,240 --> 00:23:56,640 Speaker 1: like interviews with hand picked scientists who were doing relatively 373 00:23:56,760 --> 00:24:00,960 Speaker 1: neutral and wholesome seeming work. Of course, course this all 374 00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:04,400 Speaker 1: had to totally sidestep the fact that many paper clippers 375 00:24:04,560 --> 00:24:08,000 Speaker 1: had been Nazis, and even if they had not been ardent, 376 00:24:08,520 --> 00:24:11,560 Speaker 1: their work during the war had still contributed to, or 377 00:24:11,600 --> 00:24:15,199 Speaker 1: at the absolute very least, been complicit in the German 378 00:24:15,280 --> 00:24:18,240 Speaker 1: war effort. This work had been involved in the deaths 379 00:24:18,240 --> 00:24:22,960 Speaker 1: of Allied personnel and the widespread atrocities of the Holocaust. 380 00:24:23,520 --> 00:24:26,400 Speaker 1: There had been critics of this program within the government 381 00:24:26,480 --> 00:24:30,639 Speaker 1: and the military from the beginning. For example, Samuel Klaus 382 00:24:30,720 --> 00:24:32,800 Speaker 1: was an attorney with the State Department and had been 383 00:24:32,880 --> 00:24:36,640 Speaker 1: chosen to represent the State Department with Joah. He had 384 00:24:36,760 --> 00:24:40,320 Speaker 1: argued strongly against the program since he first became involved, 385 00:24:40,359 --> 00:24:43,119 Speaker 1: pointing out that the United States was giving Nazis the 386 00:24:43,240 --> 00:24:47,560 Speaker 1: chance for American citizenship while denying that chance to refugees 387 00:24:47,600 --> 00:24:50,919 Speaker 1: and displaced persons who had been persecuted and harmed by 388 00:24:50,920 --> 00:24:54,520 Speaker 1: the Nazi regime. Thanks in part to Klaus's role, the 389 00:24:54,560 --> 00:24:58,440 Speaker 1: relationship between the State Department and the military became incredibly 390 00:24:58,560 --> 00:25:02,240 Speaker 1: adversarial during this program, and he wound up being targeted 391 00:25:02,320 --> 00:25:06,199 Speaker 1: during the Red Scare. Yeah, he made a lot of 392 00:25:06,200 --> 00:25:09,119 Speaker 1: incredibly strident criticisms of all of this. He was eventually 393 00:25:09,160 --> 00:25:13,919 Speaker 1: moved off the project. Aside from his well argued criticisms 394 00:25:13,920 --> 00:25:15,720 Speaker 1: of all of us, he apparently was also kind of 395 00:25:16,119 --> 00:25:18,160 Speaker 1: a tricky person to work with and rubbed a lot 396 00:25:18,160 --> 00:25:20,800 Speaker 1: of people the wrong way in this and many other contexts, 397 00:25:20,840 --> 00:25:26,240 Speaker 1: so he seems like kind of a tangle. After these reports, though, 398 00:25:26,400 --> 00:25:29,480 Speaker 1: there was a lot of vocal criticism of this program 399 00:25:29,520 --> 00:25:33,640 Speaker 1: from the public as well. On December thirtieth, nineteen forty six, 400 00:25:33,760 --> 00:25:37,159 Speaker 1: the Council Against Intolerance in America sent a telegram to 401 00:25:37,240 --> 00:25:41,520 Speaker 1: President Truman which read quote, as American citizens permit us 402 00:25:41,560 --> 00:25:46,200 Speaker 1: to express our profound concern over reports that Nazi scientists 403 00:25:46,200 --> 00:25:48,560 Speaker 1: have not only been brought to this country by the 404 00:25:48,680 --> 00:25:52,520 Speaker 1: United States Army for research projects, but that their families 405 00:25:52,560 --> 00:25:55,160 Speaker 1: are to follow them, and that they may be permitted 406 00:25:55,200 --> 00:25:58,679 Speaker 1: to remain here permanently. We hold these individuals to be 407 00:25:58,720 --> 00:26:03,600 Speaker 1: potentially dangerous carriers of racial and religious hatred. Their former 408 00:26:03,720 --> 00:26:07,479 Speaker 1: eminence as Nazi Party members and supporters raises the issue 409 00:26:07,520 --> 00:26:11,000 Speaker 1: of their fitness to become American citizens or hold key 410 00:26:11,040 --> 00:26:16,399 Speaker 1: positions in American industrial, scientific, and educational institutions. If it 411 00:26:16,480 --> 00:26:21,000 Speaker 1: is deemed imperative to utilize these individuals in this country, 412 00:26:21,040 --> 00:26:23,919 Speaker 1: we earnestly petition you to make sure they will not 413 00:26:24,040 --> 00:26:27,920 Speaker 1: be granted permanent residents or citizenship in the United States, 414 00:26:28,480 --> 00:26:32,040 Speaker 1: with the opportunity which that would afford of inculcating these 415 00:26:32,119 --> 00:26:36,840 Speaker 1: anti democratic doctrines which seek to undermine and destroy our 416 00:26:37,040 --> 00:26:41,560 Speaker 1: national unity. That telegram was signed by about forty people, 417 00:26:41,680 --> 00:26:46,320 Speaker 1: including Albert Einstein, A Philip Randolph, and Rabbi B. Benedict Glazier. 418 00:26:47,040 --> 00:26:50,680 Speaker 1: Eleanor Roosevelt and Albert Einstein worked together to vocally oppose 419 00:26:50,720 --> 00:26:54,720 Speaker 1: the program. Other organizations that spoke out against it included 420 00:26:54,760 --> 00:26:58,560 Speaker 1: the NAACP, the Society for the Prevention of World War III, 421 00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:02,800 Speaker 1: and the Federia Show of American Scientists, whose statement described 422 00:27:02,800 --> 00:27:05,520 Speaker 1: the program as quote an affront to the people of 423 00:27:05,560 --> 00:27:08,760 Speaker 1: all countries who so recently fought beside us, to the 424 00:27:08,800 --> 00:27:12,959 Speaker 1: refugees whose lives were shattered by Nazism, to our unfortunate 425 00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:17,040 Speaker 1: scientific colleagues of former occupied lands, and to all of 426 00:27:17,080 --> 00:27:19,879 Speaker 1: those others who suffered under the yoke these men helped 427 00:27:19,880 --> 00:27:23,919 Speaker 1: to forge. From there, Operation Paperclip continued to make some 428 00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:28,280 Speaker 1: pretty astounding headlines that were honestly pretty embarrassing to the 429 00:27:28,320 --> 00:27:31,199 Speaker 1: authorities who were behind it. We'll talk about some of 430 00:27:31,200 --> 00:27:34,720 Speaker 1: these things more in this upcoming, not yet written episode 431 00:27:34,720 --> 00:27:37,960 Speaker 1: of the show. On March ninth of nineteen forty seven, 432 00:27:38,160 --> 00:27:40,840 Speaker 1: Drew Pearson wrote an article for The New York Times 433 00:27:40,880 --> 00:27:44,400 Speaker 1: that alleged that Karl Krouch had been offered a Paperclip 434 00:27:44,440 --> 00:27:49,440 Speaker 1: contract while incarcerated at Nuremberg, where he was awaiting a. 435 00:27:49,359 --> 00:27:50,800 Speaker 2: Trial for war crimes. 436 00:27:51,680 --> 00:27:55,760 Speaker 1: Crouch was ultimately convicted of enslavement and crimes against humanity. 437 00:27:56,280 --> 00:27:59,720 Speaker 1: Project Paperclip wrapped up in September of nineteen forty seven, 438 00:28:00,320 --> 00:28:03,320 Speaker 1: but German scientists were still brought into the US after 439 00:28:03,359 --> 00:28:05,720 Speaker 1: that point. We're going to talk more about that after 440 00:28:05,760 --> 00:28:18,919 Speaker 1: a sponsor break. Project Paperclip, also known as Operation paper Clip, 441 00:28:19,200 --> 00:28:22,719 Speaker 1: formally ran from March of nineteen forty six to September 442 00:28:22,760 --> 00:28:27,159 Speaker 1: of nineteen forty seven, building on its precursor Operation Overcast, 443 00:28:27,200 --> 00:28:30,920 Speaker 1: as we talked about earlier. But this same basic process 444 00:28:31,000 --> 00:28:35,960 Speaker 1: continued under various different names and with various adjustments, for 445 00:28:36,160 --> 00:28:37,000 Speaker 1: much longer. 446 00:28:37,600 --> 00:28:39,040 Speaker 2: The recruitment of German. 447 00:28:38,800 --> 00:28:43,040 Speaker 1: Scientists actually accelerated during the Berlin Blockade, which is when 448 00:28:43,080 --> 00:28:46,760 Speaker 1: the Soviet Union blocked access to parts of Berlin in 449 00:28:46,880 --> 00:28:50,400 Speaker 1: nineteen forty eight and nineteen forty nine. The idea was 450 00:28:50,600 --> 00:28:54,160 Speaker 1: once again to keep the Soviets from getting access to 451 00:28:54,280 --> 00:28:58,400 Speaker 1: more German knowledge and technology. With the CIA and JOA 452 00:28:58,560 --> 00:29:02,520 Speaker 1: basically compete with each other in their efforts to find 453 00:29:02,640 --> 00:29:07,360 Speaker 1: and recruit more German specialists. Things escalated once again during 454 00:29:07,400 --> 00:29:10,400 Speaker 1: the Korean War under a project that was known alternately 455 00:29:10,520 --> 00:29:15,840 Speaker 1: as Accelerated Paperclip and Projects sixty three. This program involved 456 00:29:16,120 --> 00:29:20,520 Speaker 1: quote evacuating high profile scientists from Germany, and the focus 457 00:29:20,520 --> 00:29:23,680 Speaker 1: shifted away from establishing that they were not Nazis to 458 00:29:23,840 --> 00:29:28,280 Speaker 1: establishing that they were not communists. Recruits during this particular 459 00:29:28,320 --> 00:29:32,720 Speaker 1: period included Walter Schreiber, who had been the surgeon General 460 00:29:32,880 --> 00:29:35,680 Speaker 1: under the Third Reich, and he was hired to work 461 00:29:35,720 --> 00:29:39,440 Speaker 1: at the US Air Force School of Aviation Medicine. His 462 00:29:39,560 --> 00:29:42,040 Speaker 1: time in the US didn't last long, though, and it 463 00:29:42,120 --> 00:29:44,960 Speaker 1: was part of more information about this program coming to 464 00:29:45,000 --> 00:29:49,560 Speaker 1: public light. In nineteen fifty one, former war crimes investigator 465 00:29:49,680 --> 00:29:53,880 Speaker 1: Leopold Alexander noticed a brief mention of his hiring in 466 00:29:53,920 --> 00:29:58,440 Speaker 1: a medical journal. Alexander wrote to the Massachusetts Medical Society 467 00:29:58,520 --> 00:30:02,080 Speaker 1: and to the Boston globed announcing this hiring. When the 468 00:30:02,120 --> 00:30:05,760 Speaker 1: Globe ran its story, it included a statement from Schreiber, 469 00:30:05,840 --> 00:30:09,280 Speaker 1: who said that he had been the victim of Russian disinformation. 470 00:30:10,120 --> 00:30:14,000 Speaker 1: In the face of increasing and increasingly public outrage against 471 00:30:14,000 --> 00:30:17,000 Speaker 1: Schreiber's work in the US, plans started to form to 472 00:30:17,080 --> 00:30:20,640 Speaker 1: return him to Europe, but intelligence experts were concerned that 473 00:30:20,680 --> 00:30:24,000 Speaker 1: he might be a security risk. He had previously been 474 00:30:24,000 --> 00:30:27,280 Speaker 1: captured by Russia and had supposedly escaped, but a lot 475 00:30:27,320 --> 00:30:30,760 Speaker 1: of this was mysterious, a little bit fishy, and there 476 00:30:30,760 --> 00:30:33,840 Speaker 1: were concerns that he might very well start informing to 477 00:30:33,880 --> 00:30:37,640 Speaker 1: the Russians. At the same time, American officials were concerned 478 00:30:37,640 --> 00:30:40,520 Speaker 1: that he also presented a security risk if he remained 479 00:30:40,560 --> 00:30:43,840 Speaker 1: in the United States, since he had extensive knowledge of 480 00:30:43,920 --> 00:30:46,440 Speaker 1: all the other paper clippers who had been high ranking 481 00:30:46,560 --> 00:30:50,480 Speaker 1: and ardent Nazis. Basically, they were afraid he would blow 482 00:30:50,520 --> 00:30:54,640 Speaker 1: their cover. Eventually, the US paid for his passage to Argentina, 483 00:30:54,720 --> 00:30:57,320 Speaker 1: where he had family and which had already become a 484 00:30:57,320 --> 00:31:00,960 Speaker 1: home to a community of high profile notzs the officials. 485 00:31:01,320 --> 00:31:06,200 Speaker 1: He was also given an undisclosed allowance. In the nineteen fifties, 486 00:31:06,360 --> 00:31:10,240 Speaker 1: other Allied nations that had been working with German researchers 487 00:31:10,280 --> 00:31:14,760 Speaker 1: within their own borders generally started returning those researchers to Germany, 488 00:31:15,480 --> 00:31:18,160 Speaker 1: but in the US most were on the path to 489 00:31:18,240 --> 00:31:22,400 Speaker 1: becoming citizens. In fact, ninety percent of the Germans who 490 00:31:22,400 --> 00:31:25,240 Speaker 1: were brought to the US between nineteen forty five and 491 00:31:25,360 --> 00:31:29,880 Speaker 1: nineteen fifty two ultimately became US citizens. And even though 492 00:31:29,920 --> 00:31:32,880 Speaker 1: the details of the program were still classified, it had 493 00:31:32,920 --> 00:31:35,520 Speaker 1: really become something of an open secret. I mean, the 494 00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:38,560 Speaker 1: War Department had had this whole propaganda campaign about these 495 00:31:38,600 --> 00:31:43,120 Speaker 1: being the good Germans. Only when the Soviet Union launched 496 00:31:43,160 --> 00:31:47,240 Speaker 1: the satellite Sputnik in nineteen fifty seven, Bob Hope joked 497 00:31:47,280 --> 00:31:48,760 Speaker 1: that it meant that quote. 498 00:31:48,440 --> 00:31:50,640 Speaker 2: Their Germans were better than our Germans. 499 00:31:51,400 --> 00:31:53,640 Speaker 1: Bob Hope is just one of the people that this 500 00:31:53,800 --> 00:31:58,000 Speaker 1: quote has been attributed to. Sometimes, their German rock and 501 00:31:58,040 --> 00:32:00,920 Speaker 1: scientists were better than our German ricace at scientists. 502 00:32:01,640 --> 00:32:06,920 Speaker 2: People knew it was obvious. Yeah. In nineteen fifty nine, 503 00:32:07,000 --> 00:32:10,480 Speaker 2: Lieutenant Colonel Henry Whalan became deputy director of JOAH, which 504 00:32:10,560 --> 00:32:14,600 Speaker 2: was still overseeing this work. He was also spying for Russia, 505 00:32:14,800 --> 00:32:18,480 Speaker 2: something that went undetected until nineteen sixty three, when the 506 00:32:18,560 --> 00:32:21,840 Speaker 2: FBI investigated, it became clear that he had handed over 507 00:32:22,040 --> 00:32:25,400 Speaker 2: or destroyed a lot of files related to Project paper Clip, 508 00:32:25,840 --> 00:32:27,760 Speaker 2: so at least some of the details about all of 509 00:32:27,760 --> 00:32:31,680 Speaker 2: this may never be known. Waylan pleaded guilty to charges 510 00:32:31,720 --> 00:32:35,440 Speaker 2: of conspiring with Soviet agents, but the Justice Department dropped 511 00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:36,760 Speaker 2: the charge of espionage. 512 00:32:37,520 --> 00:32:41,040 Speaker 1: By the time Whalen's espionage was uncovered, JOAH had actually 513 00:32:41,040 --> 00:32:44,560 Speaker 1: been disbanded. That happened in nineteen sixty two, and a 514 00:32:44,600 --> 00:32:48,200 Speaker 1: few years after that people started calmbing through the details 515 00:32:48,280 --> 00:32:51,840 Speaker 1: of what had happened during and after the war. The 516 00:32:51,920 --> 00:32:55,000 Speaker 1: first book on Operation Paperclip to come out of this 517 00:32:55,120 --> 00:32:59,080 Speaker 1: work was Clarence Lasbie's Project paper Clip German Scientists in 518 00:32:59,120 --> 00:33:02,120 Speaker 1: the Cold War, which was published in nineteen seventy one. 519 00:33:02,560 --> 00:33:05,360 Speaker 1: At that point, though, most of the documents related to 520 00:33:05,400 --> 00:33:09,400 Speaker 1: the program were still classified, and Lasbie's general conclusion was 521 00:33:09,440 --> 00:33:13,520 Speaker 1: that authorities had screened everyone, but that a few ardent 522 00:33:13,600 --> 00:33:18,600 Speaker 1: Nazis had unfortunately managed to evade detection. Criticism of the 523 00:33:18,640 --> 00:33:22,000 Speaker 1: paper Clip program and its successors had been ongoing through 524 00:33:22,040 --> 00:33:25,080 Speaker 1: all these years, but public interest reached another peak in 525 00:33:25,160 --> 00:33:29,000 Speaker 1: nineteen seventy eight after NBC aired a mini series on 526 00:33:29,040 --> 00:33:33,040 Speaker 1: the Holocaust. In nineteen eighty, Eli Rosenbaum, who was a 527 00:33:33,040 --> 00:33:36,840 Speaker 1: student at Harvard Law was browsing through a bookstore. He 528 00:33:36,960 --> 00:33:40,440 Speaker 1: picked up both Dora, the Nazi concentration camp where modern 529 00:33:40,440 --> 00:33:43,840 Speaker 1: space technology was born and thirty thousand Prisoners Died by 530 00:33:43,960 --> 00:33:46,800 Speaker 1: Jean Michel, who was imprisoned at the camp, and the 531 00:33:46,920 --> 00:33:50,120 Speaker 1: Rocket Team, which traced the history of the V two rocket, 532 00:33:50,760 --> 00:33:53,280 Speaker 1: and in reading these books he connected the V two's 533 00:33:53,360 --> 00:33:57,080 Speaker 1: development with the use of slave labor from the concentration camp. 534 00:33:57,640 --> 00:34:00,520 Speaker 1: So when Rosenbaum finished his law degree, he got a 535 00:34:00,600 --> 00:34:03,320 Speaker 1: job at the Department of Justice in the Office of 536 00:34:03,400 --> 00:34:07,920 Speaker 1: Special Investigations. The OSI had been established in nineteen seventy 537 00:34:08,040 --> 00:34:11,799 Speaker 1: nine to investigate and prosecute Nazi war criminals who were 538 00:34:11,880 --> 00:34:15,480 Speaker 1: living in the US. Rosenbaum convinced the head of the 539 00:34:15,480 --> 00:34:19,880 Speaker 1: OSI to open an investigation into paper Clipper Arthur Rudolph, 540 00:34:20,200 --> 00:34:23,040 Speaker 1: who designed the Saturn five rocket and had been a 541 00:34:23,040 --> 00:34:24,800 Speaker 1: big part of the V two development team. 542 00:34:25,280 --> 00:34:28,239 Speaker 2: In addition to coordinating the use of enslaved labor at 543 00:34:28,239 --> 00:34:31,719 Speaker 2: the German development facility known as Middelwerk, he had known 544 00:34:31,840 --> 00:34:35,560 Speaker 2: about and been complicit in, or possibly been actively involved 545 00:34:35,560 --> 00:34:39,400 Speaker 2: in atrocities that were committed there. He maintained that he 546 00:34:39,480 --> 00:34:43,680 Speaker 2: was innocent of these accusations. Rather than stand trial, he 547 00:34:43,760 --> 00:34:46,840 Speaker 2: renounced his US citizenship in nineteen eighty four and returned 548 00:34:46,880 --> 00:34:50,359 Speaker 2: to Europe after thirty eight years in the US. After 549 00:34:50,440 --> 00:34:54,000 Speaker 2: this happened, investigative journalists started trying to get more and 550 00:34:54,120 --> 00:34:58,520 Speaker 2: more information about Operation paper Clip, including through the Freedom 551 00:34:58,560 --> 00:35:01,120 Speaker 2: of Information Act, which had been signed into law in 552 00:35:01,200 --> 00:35:06,040 Speaker 2: nineteen sixty seven. In nineteen eighty five, journalist Linda Hunt 553 00:35:06,080 --> 00:35:10,040 Speaker 2: broke a story by publishing an article titled US cover 554 00:35:10,200 --> 00:35:14,120 Speaker 2: Up of Nazi Scientists in the Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists. 555 00:35:14,680 --> 00:35:18,760 Speaker 2: This article, read in part quote formerly classified documents, revealed 556 00:35:18,760 --> 00:35:22,799 Speaker 2: details of the US military's employment of alleged Nazi war 557 00:35:22,840 --> 00:35:27,240 Speaker 2: criminals in highly sensitive defense projects. They show that government 558 00:35:27,280 --> 00:35:31,400 Speaker 2: officials concealed information about many specialists in order to secure 559 00:35:31,480 --> 00:35:35,520 Speaker 2: their legal US immigration status. The cover up seems to 560 00:35:35,560 --> 00:35:39,560 Speaker 2: have stemmed from a belief that US national security would 561 00:35:39,600 --> 00:35:43,359 Speaker 2: be best served by keeping these Nazi specialists away from 562 00:35:43,400 --> 00:35:47,120 Speaker 2: the Soviet Union, but it was a direct contravention of 563 00:35:47,160 --> 00:35:51,080 Speaker 2: the presidential directive which formally set up Project paper Clip. 564 00:35:51,600 --> 00:35:54,280 Speaker 2: Hunt published a book based on this and other research 565 00:35:54,320 --> 00:35:57,920 Speaker 2: in nineteen ninety one. Journalist Tom Bauer had done the 566 00:35:57,960 --> 00:36:01,920 Speaker 2: same in nineteen eighty seven, both Hunt and Bauer framed 567 00:36:01,960 --> 00:36:04,080 Speaker 2: Project paper Clip as a conspiracy. 568 00:36:04,719 --> 00:36:07,560 Speaker 1: In nineteen ninety eight, the US passed the Nazi War 569 00:36:07,600 --> 00:36:12,120 Speaker 1: Crimes Disclosure Act, which mandated the declassification of roughly eight 570 00:36:12,200 --> 00:36:16,960 Speaker 1: point five million pages of records related to all this. 571 00:36:16,960 --> 00:36:21,560 Speaker 1: This mass declassification led to the publication of US Intelligence 572 00:36:21,600 --> 00:36:24,640 Speaker 1: and the Nazis in two thousand and four. A key 573 00:36:24,840 --> 00:36:29,759 Speaker 1: sentence from its introduction is quote, Granted, some intelligence activities 574 00:36:29,800 --> 00:36:34,000 Speaker 1: involve a degree of secret and messiness which strained conventional 575 00:36:34,080 --> 00:36:38,200 Speaker 1: moral standards, but there was no compelling reason to begin 576 00:36:38,320 --> 00:36:41,120 Speaker 1: the post war era with the assistance of some of 577 00:36:41,160 --> 00:36:45,360 Speaker 1: those associated with the worst crimes of the war. Between 578 00:36:45,400 --> 00:36:48,360 Speaker 1: its establishment in nineteen seventy eight and its merge with 579 00:36:48,400 --> 00:36:51,600 Speaker 1: the Human Rights and Special Prosecution Section in twenty ten, 580 00:36:52,160 --> 00:36:55,320 Speaker 1: the Office of Special Investigations work led to at least 581 00:36:55,320 --> 00:36:58,719 Speaker 1: one hundred Nazi war criminals being stripped of their US 582 00:36:58,760 --> 00:37:02,960 Speaker 1: citizenship or moved from the United States. In two thousand 583 00:37:02,960 --> 00:37:06,440 Speaker 1: and six, OSI legal historian Judith Fagan wrote a six 584 00:37:06,560 --> 00:37:10,839 Speaker 1: hundred page report called Striving for Accountability in the Aftermath 585 00:37:10,880 --> 00:37:14,400 Speaker 1: of the Holocaust, which detailed both the OSI's efforts to 586 00:37:14,480 --> 00:37:18,840 Speaker 1: investigate Nazi war criminals and the US efforts to shelter them. 587 00:37:19,280 --> 00:37:22,960 Speaker 1: After the Department of Justice released an incredibly heavily redacted 588 00:37:23,040 --> 00:37:26,320 Speaker 1: version in response to a Freedom of Information Act request, 589 00:37:26,760 --> 00:37:30,200 Speaker 1: former officials leaked the entire, unredacted thing to The New 590 00:37:30,280 --> 00:37:33,520 Speaker 1: York Times. Yeah, I read an article that described this 591 00:37:33,600 --> 00:37:37,239 Speaker 1: as an incredible cell phone because they had they had 592 00:37:37,280 --> 00:37:40,440 Speaker 1: released something that was so incredibly redacted to the point 593 00:37:40,480 --> 00:37:44,040 Speaker 1: of uselessness that other people were like, well, We're just 594 00:37:44,120 --> 00:37:47,719 Speaker 1: going to leak the entire thing. In part because of 595 00:37:47,840 --> 00:37:51,200 Speaker 1: all the information that has been declassified and released in 596 00:37:51,239 --> 00:37:55,359 Speaker 1: the last few decades, there are various organizations and institutions 597 00:37:55,400 --> 00:37:58,560 Speaker 1: that are really still wrestling with how to reconcile their 598 00:37:58,640 --> 00:38:02,000 Speaker 1: own histories with paper clippers and their own connection to 599 00:38:02,000 --> 00:38:05,560 Speaker 1: the Nazi Party and war crimes. We'll be talking about that, 600 00:38:07,080 --> 00:38:08,800 Speaker 1: but since that will involve some of the discussion of 601 00:38:08,840 --> 00:38:11,200 Speaker 1: more specific people who are part of the program in 602 00:38:11,239 --> 00:38:15,080 Speaker 1: a future episode. It might be the next episode, but 603 00:38:15,120 --> 00:38:17,560 Speaker 1: since I haven't written it yet, as I said at 604 00:38:17,600 --> 00:38:19,279 Speaker 1: the top of the show, I don't quite want to 605 00:38:19,320 --> 00:38:28,400 Speaker 1: promise anything. Thanks so much for joining us on this Saturday. 606 00:38:28,560 --> 00:38:30,280 Speaker 1: If you'd like to send us a note. Our email 607 00:38:30,320 --> 00:38:35,040 Speaker 1: addresses History Podcast at iHeartRadio dot com, and you can 608 00:38:35,080 --> 00:38:38,520 Speaker 1: subscribe to the show on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, 609 00:38:38,680 --> 00:38:43,480 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.