WEBVTT - 30 Years Gone 0:00:08.245 --> 0:00:14.365 School of Humans. As I go through the case file 0:00:14.525 --> 0:00:19.005 one last time, three moments stand out to me. It's 0:00:19.045 --> 0:00:23.565 September eleventh, nineteen eighty nine, two days after Janie Ward died. 0:00:24.605 --> 0:00:28.925 It's around noon at the Junction Liquor store in Big Flat, Arkansas. 0:00:29.445 --> 0:00:32.965 A pickup truck pulls into the parking lot. Gary Don 0:00:33.045 --> 0:00:35.325 is the driver, and he's hauling two kegs off the 0:00:35.365 --> 0:00:38.405 back of the truck. He comes inside says that one 0:00:38.445 --> 0:00:41.125 of the kegs is untapped and he wants a refund. 0:00:42.165 --> 0:00:45.845 His request is denied. The keg is several days old 0:00:45.925 --> 0:00:49.125 and it hadn't been on ice. Gary Don asks again, 0:00:49.405 --> 0:00:53.925 more aggressively. This time he is refused again. He hadn't 0:00:53.965 --> 0:00:57.325 even brought one of the keg taps back. Gary Don 0:00:57.365 --> 0:01:00.605 gives up. He slams the door of his truck, annoyed 0:01:00.645 --> 0:01:08.285 that he couldn't get the money back. It's April two 0:01:08.325 --> 0:01:11.885 thousand and seven and investigators are asking Sherry, who was 0:01:11.925 --> 0:01:15.085 one of the passengers in Ron Roses truck, about the 0:01:15.205 --> 0:01:18.125 night Janie died and what she thinks happened. There's no 0:01:18.125 --> 0:01:22.685 one down there fighting, There is no one doing anything here. 0:01:23.005 --> 0:01:24.725 She had no one who did find her there was 0:01:24.805 --> 0:01:27.485 no boy that she was dating someone else's life, and 0:01:28.005 --> 0:01:30.005 you know all those unders that have always gone around. 0:01:30.165 --> 0:01:32.885 So that's why I just don't believe that anything happened 0:01:32.885 --> 0:01:35.725 there in all these hears in school, even saying they're 0:01:35.765 --> 0:01:39.605 rum and rumors among the kids. No, the only ones 0:01:39.685 --> 0:01:43.885 who've ever made allegations and who brought up rumor had 0:01:43.885 --> 0:01:48.125 been her parents and adults, not the kids. There's no 0:01:48.205 --> 0:01:50.525 way that if something bad had happened, it would have 0:01:50.565 --> 0:01:54.045 not somehow gotten through the kids in school. Even teachers 0:01:54.085 --> 0:01:56.645 here things. The teacher's never heard anything because we see 0:01:56.685 --> 0:01:59.925 these outside. So I mean, I don't know. I'm times 0:01:59.965 --> 0:02:05.485 that anything happened to her. That same day, Investigators interview Kim. 0:02:05.685 --> 0:02:09.725 She says that September ninth, nineteen eighty nine, was the 0:02:09.765 --> 0:02:13.005 worst day of her life. Fourth day in my life. 0:02:13.245 --> 0:02:17.725 I I can understand. It's been thirty years and we 0:02:17.885 --> 0:02:22.325 still don't know how Janie Ward died. I'm Catherine Townsend 0:02:23.005 --> 0:03:01.045 and this is Helen Gone. Janie's third autopsy was filled 0:03:01.085 --> 0:03:04.085 with observers. There was a representative for the Ward family, 0:03:04.365 --> 0:03:09.125 a forensic anthropology, and ABC had their FBI consultant, Brad 0:03:09.125 --> 0:03:13.285 Garrett in the room. Brad worked at the FBI for years. 0:03:13.805 --> 0:03:17.445 He worked on tons of high profile cases. Because of this, 0:03:18.125 --> 0:03:21.805 he got the nickname doctor Death. When he first started 0:03:21.805 --> 0:03:25.605 looking into Janey's case, even before the third autopsy, he 0:03:25.645 --> 0:03:29.125 didn't think anything pointed to a homicide. Well, it was 0:03:29.325 --> 0:03:33.805 really unclear to me based on the initial evidence that 0:03:33.965 --> 0:03:38.085 looked at you. And I will say that it struck 0:03:38.125 --> 0:03:40.685 me that the Arkansas State Police really did a great 0:03:40.805 --> 0:03:44.125 job of trying to figure out what really happened at 0:03:44.125 --> 0:03:48.125 this cabin. And I started get in the flavor of 0:03:48.325 --> 0:03:51.485 and I totally ABC this early on was I'm not 0:03:51.525 --> 0:03:55.245 sure this is a homicide. It could be, but it's 0:03:55.285 --> 0:03:58.045 not in my mind, not at least at that point 0:03:58.085 --> 0:04:04.405 going together as sort of a clearcutter of an homicide 0:04:04.405 --> 0:04:07.565 that it really could be something else. Is there anything 0:04:07.605 --> 0:04:10.165 specific that you remember about this case in terms of that. 0:04:10.925 --> 0:04:13.125 Is it more challenging than cases like it? Is it 0:04:13.165 --> 0:04:16.325 similar to what makes it different? The important thing for 0:04:16.405 --> 0:04:21.445 the public to understand is that people form opinions about 0:04:21.525 --> 0:04:26.965 what happens in cases. Obviously, families God bless them, form 0:04:27.005 --> 0:04:30.925 their own opinions because it's very difficult. And let me 0:04:30.925 --> 0:04:33.805 tell you I've worked a number of child deaths. It's 0:04:33.925 --> 0:04:37.085 very difficult for parents to accept that, you know, their 0:04:37.165 --> 0:04:40.005 child in effect either died by accident or by their 0:04:40.045 --> 0:04:42.605 own hand. In this case, I'm not suggesting at all 0:04:42.605 --> 0:04:45.405 this was by our own hand, but the point being, 0:04:45.485 --> 0:04:48.005 there's like this opinion form. Then then the parents in 0:04:48.045 --> 0:04:52.525 a very rural county now are promoting that this was 0:04:52.565 --> 0:04:55.605 a homicide. They're not really going to be interested in 0:04:55.685 --> 0:05:00.885 anything but an outcome that says that. And you made it. 0:05:00.925 --> 0:05:04.565 You said something in the program about talking to the kids, 0:05:04.565 --> 0:05:06.645 and you said it'd be hard to have a conspiracy 0:05:06.685 --> 0:05:10.365 if there were something like twenty people with a similar story. Yeah, 0:05:10.405 --> 0:05:14.205 I mean, I find most conspiracies laughable because you know, 0:05:14.245 --> 0:05:16.925 I used to hear these constantly that you know, the 0:05:17.085 --> 0:05:20.365 FBI colluded to cover up. You can't get two agents 0:05:20.405 --> 0:05:23.765 to collude on something, so let alone to get an 0:05:23.885 --> 0:05:27.205 entire system too, and what would be the motive of 0:05:27.285 --> 0:05:30.205 doing that? But I realized that there was, you know, 0:05:31.125 --> 0:05:33.845 controversy if that's the right word, with a local judge 0:05:33.845 --> 0:05:37.885 and a local judge's daughter, and you know, allegations made 0:05:38.525 --> 0:05:42.005 with really nothing factually just supported. Of course, many of 0:05:42.005 --> 0:05:44.085 the suspicions that get brought up in the news articles 0:05:44.085 --> 0:05:47.325 about Jane and on the Justice for Jennie forums have answers, 0:05:47.765 --> 0:05:50.565 but these are still questions that get brought up constantly, 0:05:51.325 --> 0:05:56.245 and rumors continue in Marshall across Arkansas and as Janie's 0:05:56.285 --> 0:05:59.485 case continued to get traction across the nation. You know, 0:05:59.565 --> 0:06:05.805 anytime you have I suppose public exposure of a case 0:06:05.885 --> 0:06:11.245 that draws particular conclusions, or you know, for example, when 0:06:11.285 --> 0:06:15.445 you look at the second autopsy, which you know, sort 0:06:15.485 --> 0:06:19.485 of reinforce the Wards belief that Godter was murdered, you know, 0:06:19.885 --> 0:06:23.005 you then you know, sort of get an emotional reaction 0:06:23.205 --> 0:06:27.805 from the community as to you know, well maybe that's 0:06:27.805 --> 0:06:31.085 what happened, you know, whether it's really true or not. 0:06:31.205 --> 0:06:36.045 But you know, we're all i think suspect or vulnerable 0:06:36.085 --> 0:06:40.165 to the stories of others in driving our own narrative. 0:06:40.165 --> 0:06:42.285 I mean, that's the problem today and trying to figure 0:06:42.325 --> 0:06:46.005 out what's actually true, and certain people speaks to just 0:06:46.125 --> 0:06:48.885 accept it or question it as to well, that doesn't 0:06:48.885 --> 0:06:52.525 make any sense, it's probably not true. And so you know, people, 0:06:52.605 --> 0:06:57.845 particularly folks like average everyday citizens, they don't really know, 0:06:58.245 --> 0:07:00.285 I mean from the standpoint of what is it? What 0:07:00.325 --> 0:07:03.045 does it take to actually prove these cases? Is there 0:07:03.205 --> 0:07:07.485 really any evidence to support one's or the other other 0:07:07.565 --> 0:07:10.725 than this sort of idle chat about it or what 0:07:10.925 --> 0:07:14.925 some media outlet might say about it. I will tell 0:07:14.965 --> 0:07:19.285 you because I've worked so many high profile cases that 0:07:20.645 --> 0:07:24.045 I just sort of ignore all that because you know, 0:07:24.085 --> 0:07:27.405 the facts are the facts, and wherever they drive you to. 0:07:27.645 --> 0:07:33.645 Now you know, sadly the facts don't always because maybe 0:07:33.645 --> 0:07:36.805 even the lack of facts or evidence, you know, they 0:07:36.925 --> 0:07:43.045 draw you to not a really solid conclusion. When I 0:07:43.085 --> 0:07:46.725 talked to the ward's lawyer, Jerry Sallings, he didn't think 0:07:46.765 --> 0:07:50.805 the first investigation was done very well. But Brad Garrett 0:07:50.845 --> 0:07:53.325 said he thought the Arkansas State Police did a pretty 0:07:53.325 --> 0:07:56.965 thorough job investigating what happened, particularly because it was all 0:07:57.005 --> 0:07:58.965 happening in such a small town. I know, I was 0:07:59.005 --> 0:08:02.085 a little surprised the witness statement seemed really short, and 0:08:02.165 --> 0:08:06.445 also they didn't I was surprised that weren't They weren't 0:08:06.485 --> 0:08:10.605 separated in question that night and in a more fair away, right, 0:08:10.645 --> 0:08:14.525 because I thought that made it difficult later. Right, So, 0:08:14.765 --> 0:08:18.085 investigative protocol is supposed to sort of be the template 0:08:18.125 --> 0:08:22.525 of how you investigate a case, separate the witnesses, sort 0:08:22.565 --> 0:08:25.285 of locked down the scene, and basically you don't let 0:08:25.325 --> 0:08:27.445 anybody leave, or you make sure you've got the names 0:08:27.485 --> 0:08:29.085 of all the people that were there, which in a 0:08:29.125 --> 0:08:32.085 place like Marshall, Arkansas, shouldn't be that difficult. But you 0:08:32.885 --> 0:08:35.285 still have to understand that I doubt if they were 0:08:35.325 --> 0:08:39.885 thinking that way. Let's face it, a deputy sheriff in 0:08:39.925 --> 0:08:44.925 that county, I'm sure doesn't make much money. That obviously 0:08:44.925 --> 0:08:48.725 affects the quality of person you're going to get. And again, 0:08:48.925 --> 0:08:50.925 it's nothing against the people who were there who did this, 0:08:51.045 --> 0:08:53.965 It's just that it's going to be hard to get 0:08:53.965 --> 0:08:56.605 somebody that really has a lot of experience or super 0:08:56.685 --> 0:09:00.365 qualified to work in a super rural county unless they've 0:09:00.365 --> 0:09:04.405 got some passion about living there. On Janie's death certificate, 0:09:04.885 --> 0:09:08.405 both the and the cause of death are still undetermined. 0:09:09.245 --> 0:09:12.285 But because it's not definitive, can we say that the 0:09:12.325 --> 0:09:15.125 Wards are completely wrong in their perception of what happened, 0:09:15.725 --> 0:09:19.405 that their daughter was murdered, and can anything we find 0:09:19.485 --> 0:09:22.285 support what the family believes. You're not going to make 0:09:22.365 --> 0:09:26.725 any family feel better unless it fits the fact patterns 0:09:27.085 --> 0:09:31.005 as to how they want it to be, and so 0:09:32.445 --> 0:09:38.165 could anything else be done in this case to support 0:09:38.205 --> 0:09:41.325 the family's fact pattern And I don't think there is, 0:09:41.365 --> 0:09:44.965 because I don't think there's evidence to support that. You know, 0:09:45.125 --> 0:09:49.925 like that one totally unreliable witness claimed that she was 0:09:50.245 --> 0:09:54.925 struck with a board or a bat or a club 0:09:55.525 --> 0:09:57.205 and that she went down. First of all, there was 0:09:57.245 --> 0:10:00.325 no evidence, there was no forensic evidence on her body 0:10:00.405 --> 0:10:06.605 to support that. But again, there's nothing to suitue that 0:10:06.765 --> 0:10:11.605 any of that occurred. So you know, I've walked away 0:10:11.605 --> 0:10:15.605 from a number of families basically telling them literally everything 0:10:15.685 --> 0:10:19.685 I could tell them about a case that was appropriate 0:10:19.685 --> 0:10:22.925 to tell them, and you know, they're just not happy 0:10:22.965 --> 0:10:26.205 with what I'm saying, and I fully accept that and 0:10:26.205 --> 0:10:29.125 say I totally understand, so that I can only be 0:10:29.245 --> 0:10:32.805 driven by the facts, my own experience, what the forensics 0:10:32.805 --> 0:10:36.525 tell me, and I have to go with that. So 0:10:37.165 --> 0:10:39.925 you know, I'm open to if you or somebody else 0:10:39.925 --> 0:10:44.485 could tell me that contradicts what this sort of general 0:10:44.525 --> 0:10:48.925 conclusion is about this particular case. Great, but nobody has 0:10:48.965 --> 0:10:51.285 ever come up with that because I just don't think 0:10:51.285 --> 0:10:55.005 it exists. Now, I will say one thing about that 0:10:55.765 --> 0:10:59.765 you know, every case is like a pie. Investigators have 0:10:59.885 --> 0:11:03.565 part of it, The prosecutor obviously has a huge part 0:11:03.605 --> 0:11:07.725 of it. The medical exam there and the medical professionals 0:11:07.765 --> 0:11:10.725 for instant anthropologies, et cetera have a part of it. 0:11:10.765 --> 0:11:13.325 But you have to take each one of them in perspective, 0:11:13.845 --> 0:11:16.445 you know, And what if you put them all together, 0:11:17.245 --> 0:11:19.725 then what do you have, you know, with all the 0:11:19.765 --> 0:11:23.365 failings and biases and pinions and so forth. But what 0:11:23.405 --> 0:11:26.325 do you have at the at the end of all that, 0:11:26.485 --> 0:11:28.885 of that pie going together? And you know, and so 0:11:29.365 --> 0:11:32.285 I say that in that when you take the first 0:11:32.365 --> 0:11:36.525 or second autopsy, Okay, they found X or Y, fine, 0:11:37.245 --> 0:11:40.965 is there anything beyond with the medical examiner, Let's face it, 0:11:41.045 --> 0:11:44.845 that's a political examination of a body that's not with 0:11:45.045 --> 0:11:51.045 all the facts and circumstances that cops, detectives, prosecutors are 0:11:51.165 --> 0:11:57.045 finding through evidence collected through interviews with people at the sea, 0:11:57.765 --> 0:12:00.805 people who saw her fall, people who thought she was choking, 0:12:01.085 --> 0:12:03.245 people who poured beer on her. If that was the case, 0:12:03.405 --> 0:12:05.805 all of these things, you know, the medical him were 0:12:05.845 --> 0:12:08.245 supposed to stick to his or her lane. This is 0:12:08.285 --> 0:12:11.925 what I found in the autopsy, and it great. And 0:12:11.965 --> 0:12:14.805 then you go from there. So what you have in 0:12:14.925 --> 0:12:20.765 this case is a third autopsy by a sort of 0:12:20.805 --> 0:12:25.245 a seasoned professional and a forensic anthropologist to tell you 0:12:26.125 --> 0:12:28.965 the fact pattern that she was beaten to death with 0:12:29.045 --> 0:12:34.485 something is not there. We'll be right back. We've been 0:12:34.525 --> 0:12:38.245 able to answer some questions about the circumstances surrounding Janie's death. 0:12:38.725 --> 0:12:41.045 Our producer, Gaby and I sorted through what we know, 0:12:41.885 --> 0:12:45.005 what we don't know, and at this point what we 0:12:45.085 --> 0:12:47.525 can't know. One of the things that the family thought 0:12:47.685 --> 0:12:51.765 was suspicious was the fact that Jannie's dad, Ron Ward, 0:12:51.885 --> 0:12:55.085 said that he had seen Jane in a different shirt 0:12:55.365 --> 0:12:57.565 when he saw at the morgue the night that she died, 0:12:57.845 --> 0:13:01.325 versus what he saw in some photos that the investigator, 0:13:01.325 --> 0:13:04.925 Bill Beach had showed him a couple of weeks later. 0:13:05.205 --> 0:13:07.205 We did look into the shirt and we did figure 0:13:07.205 --> 0:13:10.005 out some things about the shirt. So what were some 0:13:10.045 --> 0:13:12.445 of those things. Well, we figured out first of all, 0:13:12.565 --> 0:13:15.765 that Jane stayed the night before the party with her 0:13:15.765 --> 0:13:20.445 friend Leslie, and according to Leslie, Janny borrowed that shirt 0:13:20.445 --> 0:13:24.725 from her, and so she was wearing both. Multiple witnesses 0:13:24.765 --> 0:13:28.165 said that they saw her wearing the black t shirt 0:13:28.245 --> 0:13:32.605 over the white pin striped shirt, because, including ambulance attendants 0:13:32.605 --> 0:13:35.485 who were trying to revive her at the scene, they 0:13:35.525 --> 0:13:39.285 specifically remembered rolling the sleeves up and pulling up the 0:13:39.285 --> 0:13:41.285 bottom of the shirt to expose her stomach, and rolling 0:13:41.325 --> 0:13:44.445 up the sleeves to expose her arms. At some point, 0:13:44.565 --> 0:13:47.965 someone must have removed the white pin striped shirt and 0:13:48.445 --> 0:13:51.485 what happened to that item of clothing is a mystery 0:13:51.565 --> 0:13:54.205 because we know that it was lost by law enforcement 0:13:54.245 --> 0:13:56.885 at some point. And that's just another one of the 0:13:56.885 --> 0:13:59.405 tragedies of this case because one of the biggest questions 0:13:59.445 --> 0:14:02.485 that the family had was why how she got all 0:14:02.525 --> 0:14:05.405 that debris under her clothes and what exactly that was. 0:14:05.605 --> 0:14:08.125 And of course you know, now with forensic testing, who 0:14:08.165 --> 0:14:11.085 knows what could be accomplished, But they lost the evidence. Okay. 0:14:11.125 --> 0:14:13.925 So one of the other big questions that the journalist 0:14:13.965 --> 0:14:16.685 Mike Master said brings up and his column is this 0:14:16.845 --> 0:14:20.245 idea of the ninety missing minutes, And he brings it 0:14:20.325 --> 0:14:22.925 up because there's a police dispatcher named Harold Young who 0:14:22.925 --> 0:14:25.485 said that the truck in the route from the party 0:14:25.485 --> 0:14:29.325 to the bank parking lot did stop at the police station. 0:14:30.165 --> 0:14:33.205 So what have we been able to figure out about this? 0:14:33.365 --> 0:14:36.405 It's very confusing. Well, I think the ninety missing minutes 0:14:36.445 --> 0:14:38.685 is like a classic example of something that was it 0:14:38.725 --> 0:14:41.885 was put out there and it's not necessarily correct because, 0:14:42.125 --> 0:14:44.565 first of all, in a lot of the early reports, 0:14:44.605 --> 0:14:47.285 I saw that the time of the sunset was wrong. 0:14:47.965 --> 0:14:50.285 It was it was described as being around six thirty, 0:14:50.285 --> 0:14:52.325 when in fact it was around seven thirty. And everyone 0:14:52.325 --> 0:14:55.085 at the party basically said that they said when people 0:14:55.125 --> 0:14:57.325 when things started happening, when things started to go wrong, 0:14:57.405 --> 0:14:59.445 when all hell broke loose, it was around dusk, which 0:14:59.445 --> 0:15:02.005 would have been around seven thirty, not six thirty. And 0:15:02.285 --> 0:15:06.565 Harold Young made that statement, but he also said that 0:15:06.605 --> 0:15:09.685 he called the ambulance service, and the two people from 0:15:09.685 --> 0:15:12.125 the ambulance service who were interviewed by the police both 0:15:12.165 --> 0:15:14.925 say they never received that call. So their discrepancies in 0:15:14.965 --> 0:15:19.405 Harold Young's statement. And Ron Kim and Sherry, who were 0:15:19.405 --> 0:15:21.365 all in the truck, they all told police that they 0:15:21.405 --> 0:15:26.205 never stopped anywhere, so they are all their statements match. Now, 0:15:26.685 --> 0:15:29.845 could three people have concocted a story, possibly, I mean, 0:15:30.045 --> 0:15:34.165 but their statements do match. And Harold Young GE's an outlier. 0:15:34.245 --> 0:15:36.165 He really is the outlier in that. And I think 0:15:36.205 --> 0:15:37.965 another thing that we found that was really important is 0:15:37.965 --> 0:15:40.765 that there may have been missing time, but I don't 0:15:40.805 --> 0:15:43.445 believe it was ninety minutes. It wasn't hours. You know, 0:15:43.565 --> 0:15:46.845 it may have been half an hour or longer, but 0:15:46.925 --> 0:15:49.405 it wasn't you know, it doesn't seem that it was 0:15:49.485 --> 0:15:51.165 an hour and a half. I think I do think 0:15:51.205 --> 0:15:53.445 that's six thirty times probably could not have been right, 0:15:53.565 --> 0:15:56.365 just based on what everyone at the party. Everyone else 0:15:56.365 --> 0:15:58.885 at the party said they saw. Okay, So another one 0:15:58.925 --> 0:16:01.885 of the big rumors is that she was hit in 0:16:01.925 --> 0:16:04.205 the face with a baseball bat and killed at the 0:16:04.205 --> 0:16:08.485 party by another Marshall High School student. People would often 0:16:08.805 --> 0:16:12.125 say it was Sarah, who was a popular cheerleader who 0:16:12.205 --> 0:16:15.205 came from prominent family in the town. Her dad was 0:16:15.365 --> 0:16:19.045 the judge. But it seems in our investigation that there's 0:16:19.165 --> 0:16:23.285 very little evidence that supports that theory at all. We've 0:16:23.325 --> 0:16:26.005 really looked into this theory and the possibility this could 0:16:26.005 --> 0:16:29.085 have happened, but we just can't find any evidence to 0:16:29.125 --> 0:16:31.205 point to it. I mean, there are a lot of 0:16:31.285 --> 0:16:33.805 rumors about, you know, something that happened to the party, 0:16:33.845 --> 0:16:35.445 but again, when you go back and look at them, 0:16:35.485 --> 0:16:37.605 You look at the statements, you find the people. It 0:16:37.685 --> 0:16:39.805 turns out that, oh it's just something I heard. And 0:16:40.085 --> 0:16:42.565 usually they didn't even hear it secondhand. Usually it's third 0:16:42.565 --> 0:16:45.325 hand or fourth hand. And you know, were there was 0:16:45.365 --> 0:16:47.965 there some truth to it, Yes, I mean Sarah, I 0:16:47.965 --> 0:16:50.285 think because she was a she was a judge's daughter, 0:16:50.565 --> 0:16:54.085 because she did have a temper. She'd admittedly like assaulted 0:16:54.085 --> 0:16:56.125 a couple of other girls, and she got in a 0:16:56.125 --> 0:16:57.925 fight with a boyfriend slapped him in the face. I mean, 0:16:57.925 --> 0:17:01.245 there's there's she had a temper. And also she told 0:17:01.285 --> 0:17:04.005 the police, she lied to the police about who she'd 0:17:04.005 --> 0:17:05.725 come to the party with, and they were inconsist since 0:17:05.725 --> 0:17:08.245 he's in her story. So I can see where that 0:17:08.445 --> 0:17:11.445 all taken together could lead people to conclude she had 0:17:11.445 --> 0:17:13.285 something to do with it. And also a lot of people, 0:17:14.005 --> 0:17:15.605 you know, they just didn't like her. They didn't like her, 0:17:15.605 --> 0:17:18.165 they didn't like her attitude, and that led them to 0:17:18.165 --> 0:17:19.725 believe that she could have had some role in this. 0:17:19.845 --> 0:17:22.845 But again, like none of the forensic evidence points to that, 0:17:23.005 --> 0:17:25.645 not one person that the party said they saw anything 0:17:25.725 --> 0:17:28.485 like that. The one witness that we did find who 0:17:28.565 --> 0:17:31.285 said she saw Jane's struck with a baseball bat. We've 0:17:31.325 --> 0:17:34.285 talked to her, you know about how problematic her testimony is. 0:17:34.325 --> 0:17:38.085 She's had a couple of different stories, and again, if 0:17:38.085 --> 0:17:40.565 she was struck with a baseball bat, you would see 0:17:41.045 --> 0:17:44.205 much more catastrophic injuries to her face. When I talked 0:17:44.245 --> 0:17:47.685 to the neurosurgeon the first autopsy, one of the biggest 0:17:47.685 --> 0:17:49.965 tragedy was such a simple mistake and something that should 0:17:49.965 --> 0:17:52.885 have been corrected really early. Fami Malick referred to the 0:17:52.925 --> 0:17:56.325 injury as a hyper extension injury rather than a hyperflection injury, 0:17:56.685 --> 0:17:59.925 which you know, they're two completely different things. Then you 0:17:59.965 --> 0:18:02.685 have all this confusion about whether her head snapped forward 0:18:02.805 --> 0:18:05.965 or backward, and that led to, you know, the rumors 0:18:05.965 --> 0:18:07.445 that she was hit in the face with something which 0:18:07.445 --> 0:18:09.405 would have snapped her head backward, and that led to 0:18:09.565 --> 0:18:12.085 you know, who could it have been? And the doctor 0:18:12.085 --> 0:18:15.285 branella autopsy. So I just think you can just really 0:18:15.325 --> 0:18:18.725 see how one little simple thing can just have this 0:18:19.005 --> 0:18:21.965 catastrophic effect on an investigation if it's not caught early 0:18:22.045 --> 0:18:24.765 and not dealt with. So throughout this case, a lot 0:18:24.845 --> 0:18:27.485 of what we've seen is that the wards will say 0:18:27.525 --> 0:18:30.165 one thing and then other people will say something else, 0:18:30.405 --> 0:18:33.365 like you know, they said they saw a clear fracture 0:18:33.445 --> 0:18:35.525 in the X ray when they visited the crime lab, 0:18:35.805 --> 0:18:38.165 but then in the X rays that they got sent 0:18:38.245 --> 0:18:43.165 to them a few weeks later showed the spine blocked out. Also, 0:18:43.605 --> 0:18:47.565 they said that they received death threats, And there's just 0:18:47.605 --> 0:18:50.565 sort of some of these these sorts of things that 0:18:51.245 --> 0:18:53.845 it doesn't see. There's doesn't seem to be any way 0:18:54.045 --> 0:18:58.205 to prove one way or another because it is what 0:18:58.325 --> 0:19:02.245 they saw versus what other people heard and saw. Yeah, 0:19:02.285 --> 0:19:04.325 I think that there are some things that we it's 0:19:04.485 --> 0:19:07.205 very difficult to prove one way the other. Like, for example, 0:19:08.245 --> 0:19:10.605 we can never know what Ron actually saw when he 0:19:10.605 --> 0:19:14.445 saw Janie's body. He described it, but obviously we can't 0:19:14.445 --> 0:19:17.685 know that we weren't there, and we also can't know, 0:19:18.085 --> 0:19:20.845 you know, when Ron Amona saw the X rays and 0:19:20.885 --> 0:19:23.245 they say that the X rays they saw later were different, 0:19:23.605 --> 0:19:26.445 We really have no way of knowing that either. But 0:19:26.485 --> 0:19:29.685 what we can say is that they definitely felt that 0:19:29.765 --> 0:19:33.005 the system was not working, and they felt people weren't 0:19:33.045 --> 0:19:35.605 helping them, and they felt that people in power were 0:19:35.605 --> 0:19:39.205 being treated differently, and they also were afraid and they 0:19:39.205 --> 0:19:41.565 were so afraid that they moved and they put their 0:19:41.565 --> 0:19:44.125 other daughter in a different school and said they were 0:19:44.125 --> 0:19:47.445 getting death threats. So there was definitely they seemed to 0:19:47.445 --> 0:19:50.085 feel that there was an atmosphere of fear in the town. 0:19:50.525 --> 0:19:53.045 When we talked to Richard Walter from the Vedok Society, 0:19:53.125 --> 0:19:56.085 he described a similar environment in Marshall, and a lot 0:19:56.085 --> 0:20:00.245 of other people did too. Several reporters said that people 0:20:00.245 --> 0:20:03.205 weren't cooperative or weren't helping. And then there was another 0:20:03.285 --> 0:20:06.205 journalist we talked to who said they received threats too. 0:20:06.365 --> 0:20:09.725 So it's only it's a few people's word, but we 0:20:09.765 --> 0:20:11.645 can't get inside their head and know their experience. We 0:20:11.685 --> 0:20:19.005 can only report what they said to us. One of 0:20:19.045 --> 0:20:22.205 the most frustrating things we can't know is Janey's full 0:20:22.245 --> 0:20:27.125 toxicology report. Some listeners brought up this theory from the beginning. 0:20:27.805 --> 0:20:31.565 Could Janey have been poisoned by accident? At the party, 0:20:32.085 --> 0:20:36.445 the host Jay made PGA that's pure grain alcohol punch, 0:20:37.325 --> 0:20:40.205 and in it he put orange slices that had been 0:20:40.245 --> 0:20:44.405 soaked overnight in rubbing alcohol. Here's his interview with Bill 0:20:44.445 --> 0:20:49.285 Beach again describing the punch. There's been some discussion about 0:20:49.485 --> 0:20:52.565 the fruit that would put in time. Was there any 0:20:53.125 --> 0:20:59.125 special preparations taken of soaked the fruit for to over 0:20:59.205 --> 0:21:03.525 twenty fires reven alcohol? What was the purpose for that? 0:21:03.565 --> 0:21:09.645 He seemed like a higher content. Danny koorol rode alcohol out, 0:21:09.965 --> 0:21:13.405 pray pulses or over the Very little alcohol and no 0:21:13.565 --> 0:21:17.125 drugs were found in Janie's system. Her blood alcohol level 0:21:17.205 --> 0:21:21.165 was point zero five. That's about one drink, but that's 0:21:21.245 --> 0:21:26.885 ethyl alcohol. Rubbing alcohol is isopropyl alcohol, and in the 0:21:26.965 --> 0:21:31.405 first autopsy, doctor Malick didn't test for it. One of 0:21:31.445 --> 0:21:34.205 the pathologists who reviewed doctor Malik's work in nineteen ninety 0:21:34.205 --> 0:21:38.045 two pointed out that the toxicology screens were limited to cannabis, 0:21:38.325 --> 0:21:43.485 ethyl alcohol, drugs, and lead. Rubbing alcohol poisoning is rare, 0:21:44.285 --> 0:21:47.405 but it can be fatal. According to the National Library 0:21:47.445 --> 0:21:51.765 of Medicines Hazardous Substances Databank, it's acute potency as a 0:21:51.845 --> 0:21:55.405 central nervous depressant is about twice that of ethanol eight 0:21:55.485 --> 0:21:58.165 ounces as a lethal dose, but as little as one 0:21:58.285 --> 0:22:02.365 hundred millilters or just over three ounces can be fatal. 0:22:03.925 --> 0:22:05.765 So I had her producers Gabby and tay or do 0:22:05.805 --> 0:22:08.965 an experiment. We wanted to see how much fruit Janey 0:22:08.965 --> 0:22:11.285 would have had to consume to ingest eight ounces of 0:22:11.365 --> 0:22:15.525 rubbing alcohol. So they follow Jay's recipe and soak the 0:22:15.565 --> 0:22:19.045 fruit for twenty four hours. Okay, so basically what we've 0:22:19.165 --> 0:22:21.925 done is we have three different oranges. We have an 0:22:21.965 --> 0:22:24.085 orange that's cut into pieces of four, we have eight 0:22:24.165 --> 0:22:27.405 pieces smaller pieces, and then we also have one that's peeled. 0:22:27.685 --> 0:22:30.925 With these three oranges cut into different quantities, we're trying 0:22:30.925 --> 0:22:33.285 to see if it's possible for one orange to absorb 0:22:33.445 --> 0:22:36.525 enough rubbing alcohol to be fatal. Basically, can the oranges 0:22:36.605 --> 0:22:44.885 absorb a lethal dosage of rubbing alcohol? That's a lot 0:22:45.285 --> 0:22:51.005 about rubbing alcohol and not very much orange. It's been 0:22:51.085 --> 0:22:53.605 twenty four hours and we take a look at what happened. 0:22:53.725 --> 0:22:56.845 Doesn't look like that much of the rubbing alcohol was 0:22:56.885 --> 0:22:59.405 actually absorbed in them, and that was in our different 0:22:59.485 --> 0:23:03.685 control environments, and it looks like only about three yeah, 0:23:03.685 --> 0:23:08.405 about three ounces was probably absorbed by the fruit pieces. 0:23:08.765 --> 0:23:10.885 We determined that to get to the lethal amount of 0:23:10.925 --> 0:23:15.165 eight ounces, Janie would have had to eat around three oranges. 0:23:15.885 --> 0:23:19.605 That's not impossible to imagine, but that's a lot of oranges, 0:23:19.765 --> 0:23:22.365 especially considering the fact that they smelled so strongly of 0:23:22.445 --> 0:23:26.245 rubby alcohol. But with one hundred millilters, she would only 0:23:26.325 --> 0:23:30.205 have to consume about one orange. In several witness statements, 0:23:30.685 --> 0:23:33.845 partygoers mentioned that Jane was chewing on the pieces of fruit. 0:23:34.765 --> 0:23:38.485 In fact, Ron Rose specifically said she ate a cup 0:23:38.525 --> 0:23:41.965 of the fruit. He said she may have thought that 0:23:42.085 --> 0:23:45.165 this would be weaker than just drinking the punch, and 0:23:45.285 --> 0:23:48.805 in a police report, investigator Bill Beach said that when 0:23:48.885 --> 0:23:51.285 he went up to the cabin that night, he found 0:23:51.325 --> 0:23:53.845 orange piels on either side of where Jane had fallen, 0:23:54.845 --> 0:23:58.445 and though the orange PILs were bagged and logged into evidence, 0:23:59.085 --> 0:24:03.525 they were never tested. In that first autopsy, doctor Malick 0:24:03.565 --> 0:24:06.725 said that Jane had ten ounces of digested food matter 0:24:06.805 --> 0:24:11.085