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Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Molly Jongfast, and this is Fast Politics, where

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Speaker 1: we discuss the top political headlines with some of today's

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Speaker 1: best minds. Representative Al Green has filed articles of impeachment

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Speaker 1: against President Trump. Again, we have such a great show

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Speaker 1: for you today. The Latino Vote podcast. Mike Madrid stops

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Speaker 1: by to talk about our trade war with Canada and

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Speaker 1: how that will play in the midterms. Then we'll talk

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Speaker 1: to Semaphore's Dave Weigel about the transition from primaries to

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Speaker 1: the general election. But first, the news.

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Speaker 2: Somali, the Supreme Court has upheld Trump's order to overhaul

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Speaker 2: mail-in ballots. Now, I think a lot of people are

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Speaker 2: misinterpreting what this means. They just read the headline. Can

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Speaker 2: you talk us through it?

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Speaker 1: What would have been better is for them not to

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Speaker 1: have touched it. But what they did was they said

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Speaker 1: that basically that it can go through the court process.

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Speaker 1: They didn't say that Donald Trump can do whatever he wants. Now,

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Speaker 1: will Donald Trump do whatever he wants? Probably. But this

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Speaker 1: internal directive does not regulate the state's voter registration process.

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Speaker 1: nor does it impinge on the state's authority to create

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Speaker 1: and enforce a legal code for elections. It doesn't do anything.

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Speaker 1: It just says it can keep going in the courts.

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Speaker 1: The court's deposition of this application does not mean that

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Speaker 1: any measure taken by the government to implement the order

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Speaker 1: will necessarily be lawful. The court noted on that score,

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Speaker 1: time will tell. So it does nothing. But it lets

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Speaker 1: it keep going in the courts. Now, that said, Ketanji Brown-Jackson,

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Speaker 1: Sonia Sotomayor, and Elaine Kagan all said, stop it. Like,

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Speaker 1: don't get involved in this. I want to read this

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Speaker 1: line from Brown-Jackson because it's very smart now. Here's the quote.

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Speaker 1: It also lets another shoe drop in the Kafkaesque direction.

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Speaker 1: nightmare that our precedents have been steadily creating for certain

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Speaker 1: plaintiffs who seek to bring election related challenges. And again,

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Speaker 1: this is the left leaning justices trying desperately to to

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Speaker 1: get out ahead of the insanity that is Donald Trump. Look,

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Speaker 1: good for the liberal justices for talking about this. This

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Speaker 1: is not game over in any stretch of the imagination.

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Speaker 1: This is more to be revealed and there will be more.

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Speaker 1: But It is worth realizing that any time, you know,

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Speaker 1: Donald Trump is quietly. I don't think we talk about

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Speaker 1: this enough, like Trump and the Trump administration is constantly

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Speaker 1: running up to the Supreme Court to get what they want.

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Speaker 1: And sometimes Trump doesn't get it. Like when you remember,

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Speaker 1: he did run up to try to get them to vote.

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Speaker 1: Make it so he didn't have to pay Eugene Carroll

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Speaker 1: the five million dollars. So just important to remember that

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Speaker 1: Trump is constantly going to the Supreme Court. for his

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Speaker 1: wish list of things he wants. He's sort of got

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Speaker 1: what he wanted here, but not 100%. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: So, Molly, I know your passion project is talking to

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Speaker 2: your friend, RFK Jr. Luckily, he doesn't talk back, so

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Speaker 2: we don't have to hear his weird voice. On his watch,

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Speaker 2: we now have two people dead of measles in Pennsylvania.

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Speaker 2: Heck of a job, Bobby.

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Speaker 1: So we have more than two people dead from anti-vax.

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Speaker 2: Pennsylvania this week.

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Speaker 1: Right. But recently we had two people dead from from

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Speaker 1: from two unvaccinated people who have died of measles. Now,

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Speaker 1: what Jesse is talking about is my commitment to reminding

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Speaker 1: RFK Jr. that he should resign. And I do that

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Speaker 1: because he should resign. There are a few people who

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Speaker 1: history will judge harder than RFK Jr. for his complicity

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Speaker 1: in trying to both disassemble our environmental regulations and also

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Speaker 1: to push anti-vax conspiracies, which result in deaths. Two school-aged

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Speaker 1: children and one adult died last year from measles complication.

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Speaker 1: I just want to point out, these are five deaths now.

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Speaker 1: They're extremely rare and they're also just not what should

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Speaker 1: be happening. We have a vaccine for measles. I've been vaccinated.

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Speaker 1: You've been vaccinated. What these vaccines mean is that we

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Speaker 1: don't have to die of a disease that is completely preventable, measles.

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Speaker 1: I want to point out that all of this vaccine

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Speaker 1: backlash comes from COVID, right, from COVID. post-COVID craziness. But

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Speaker 1: it is like.

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Speaker 3: Very, very, very, very, very, very, very preventable. And remember

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Speaker 3: that RFK is making cash on this in any which way.

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Speaker 3: He has a, you know, he's involved in this Children's

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Speaker 3: Defense Fund campaign. He is conflicted all the way.

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Speaker 1: But I want to point out that one in five

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Speaker 1: measles is really nasty and you can get vaccinated anytime

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Speaker 1: you want. OK, so, I mean, most people our age

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Speaker 1: are vaccinated. But if you're listening to this and you're

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Speaker 1: thinking measles, about not vaccinating your kid, roughly one in

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Speaker 1: five unvaccinated people who will get this virus will end

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Speaker 1: up in the hospital. That is really, really bad, one

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Speaker 1: in five. And it's dangerous for children. Out of up

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Speaker 1: to three out of a thousand children with measles will die. Like,

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Speaker 1: that's just so stupid. Like, just get your kids vaccinated.

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Speaker 1: One in 20 children with measles will go on to

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Speaker 1: develop pneumonia, which is the leading cause of death from

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Speaker 1: measles among children. You can have brain swelling. I mean,

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Speaker 1: you can have lifelong hearing damage. You could have intellectual disabilities.

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Speaker 1: It's just so stupid. It's so stupid. We have a

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Speaker 1: perfectly safe vaccine. Don't listen to this dumb, dumb, dumb

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Speaker 1: White House. But beyond that, beyond the vaccine situation. It's

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Speaker 1: also our food supply, you know, because we don't have

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Speaker 1: food inspectors, because Elon Musk decided that would be a

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Speaker 1: waste of money. You know, we have people getting very

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Speaker 1: sick from things like a lot.

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Speaker 2: And there's a lot of concerns about this beef coming

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Speaker 2: in from Argentina.

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Speaker 1: I'm excited to see. to explore it so here we

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Speaker 1: are and uh just so stupid and uh it's not

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Speaker 1: our moment of but it should be.

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Speaker 2: A sign of how bad trump's approval is and how

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Speaker 2: well the mega movement is going is we are now

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Speaker 2: seeing trump trump backed house candidates removing mentions of trump

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Speaker 2: and rebranding instead of America First Fighters to Independent Leadership.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, this is a really interesting thing. And I actually

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Speaker 1: was talking about this as a real problem for Republicans

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Speaker 1: in the midterm, which is you can't separate yourself from Trump.

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Speaker 1: Trump doesn't like it. That's why John Cornyn is not

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Speaker 1: running for Senate in the state of Texas because Because

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Speaker 1: Donald Trump went in there and put his finger on

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Speaker 1: the scale for Paxton. But Trump is very unpopular. He's

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Speaker 1: under 40 percent that there's no precedent for that. So

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Speaker 1: if you're trying to run for the House, I mean,

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Speaker 1: this is an interesting one, this candidate. So he's a

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Speaker 1: candidate who is unpopular. Latino. He is running in Kentucky,

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Speaker 1: which is a red state in a district that Trump

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Speaker 1: carried by double digits in 2024. But he's no dum-dum. Right.

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Speaker 1: And so what is he doing? He's he has removed

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Speaker 1: the phrase America first fighter. And instead, he says independent

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Speaker 1: leadership for Kentucky. And that is pretty interesting. He promised

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Speaker 1: he said health care isn't a talking point for me.

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Speaker 1: It's been my life's work. So remember, Donald Trump is

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Speaker 1: has not brought any. And then he took his picture.

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Speaker 1: He took the picture with Trump off the Web site.

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Speaker 1: And he just now has a picture of himself. It

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Speaker 1: shows what these congressional candidates are dealing with, which is

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Speaker 1: you have a press that you have an unprecedentedly unpopular president.

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Speaker 1: And you're trying to win in a midterm cycle. And

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Speaker 1: it's a real problem. And they're going to have to

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Speaker 1: thread the needle of being able to push Trump away

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Speaker 1: while still running as a Trump candidate. And I think

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Speaker 1: it's going to be tough for them. And I also

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Speaker 1: am happy to see them struggle.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: So, Molly, you may have heard that the Republicans are

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Speaker 2: going to have their first ever midterm convention. And I'm

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Speaker 2: going to shock you here, but the planning for it

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Speaker 2: has been filled with grifting and graft, like all MAGA operations.

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Speaker 2: And the convention's turning into a total shitshow. And it's

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Speaker 2: just days away.

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Speaker 1: So this is... It was super interesting. You know, it

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Speaker 1: reminds me of the 250th anniversary was so hard. You know,

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Speaker 1: there was so much grifting and graft with that and

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Speaker 1: so much damage to things. And And, you know, it

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Speaker 1: was supposed to be it became a very partisan event.

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Speaker 1: And it had this remember it had the the different pavilions,

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Speaker 1: many of which were empty. So here is this midterm convention,

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Speaker 1: which I actually thought was kind of a good idea doing.

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Speaker 1: a midterm convention.

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Speaker 2: In principle, it's a great idea. In practice, all this

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Speaker 2: Republican money that gets fundraised gets fucking stolen by consultants.

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Speaker 1: So what's interesting about a midterms— sorry, the reason why I

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Speaker 1: do a midterm convention is because you want to break

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Speaker 1: through the media noise. You want to get people excited.

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Speaker 1: You want to have everybody together. So I actually thought

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Speaker 1: this would be— I thought this was a good idea, but

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Speaker 1: turns out there are too many people trying to make

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Speaker 1: money off of it. So— So we have reporting from PAC.

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Speaker 1: The two-day event in Dallas has the highest package. There's

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Speaker 1: probably something higher than that, but they can cost as

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Speaker 1: much as $ 100K. The minimum is $ 25K. It has corporate

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Speaker 1: sponsor dollars, too. And so it has it's not going

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Speaker 1: to have a nominating convention.

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Speaker 5: Right.

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Speaker 1: Because everyone's nominated. So it's going to have I guess

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Speaker 1: it's going to have talks. The convention is taking place

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Speaker 1: on the 9th and 10th, right before the 21st, 25th

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Speaker 1: anniversary of the 9-11 attacks. The event will have wealthy

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Speaker 1: Republican elites partying right before. I don't know. I mean,

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Speaker 1: 9-11 is I don't know. I mean. It will it

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Speaker 1: will it will be they will be judged on this, Republicans.

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Speaker 1: And I also think like if there are optics of

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Speaker 1: empty rooms, that will be bad for them. Also, like

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Speaker 1: the other thing is, I'm not convinced that there are great. Like,

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Speaker 1: so supposedly it's just going to be Trump speaking. But

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Speaker 1: who else? I mean, you can't just have Trump speak.

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Speaker 2: It's also films that they're making that are going to

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Speaker 2: be anti-socialist propaganda. We have to also remember that this

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Speaker 2: is the Kirkiversary, as they've been calling it, the anniversary

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Speaker 2: of Charlie Kirk's death.

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Speaker 1: Right. I just am not convinced that like the the

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Speaker 1: optics of people watching a movie are going to do

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Speaker 1: what they think it will.

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Speaker 5: Right.

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Speaker 2: No, no, no one's watching this except for the most

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Speaker 2: glued to their couch Fox News viewer of all time.

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Speaker 1: But also you're going to have video. I mean, the

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Speaker 1: whole point of these conventions is to get video out

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Speaker 1: there of people speaking, to have, you know, the optics

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Speaker 1: of new candidates getting up there. And, you know, right. Like, remember,

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Speaker 1: conventions have created things like Barack Obama. Right. So and

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Speaker 1: the question here is like, I think it's unlikely we're

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Speaker 1: going to see a lot of new talent coming out

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Speaker 1: of this. So what are we going to see? Half

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Speaker 1: empty halls, very rich people partying down, people watching movies

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Speaker 1: like I just don't know what the what the game

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Speaker 1: here is. Mike Madrid is a political consultant and the

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Speaker 1: host of the Latino Vote podcast and the author of

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Speaker 1: the Latino Century. Welcome to Fast Politics.

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Speaker 4: It's great to be back with you. I love Fast Politics.

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Speaker 1: So trade wars are, if you're laser focused on affordability,

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Speaker 1: why would you go to trade war with Canada?

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Speaker 4: Or anybody. I don't know. I think we've got to

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Speaker 4: stop because of our own mental health. We have to

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Speaker 4: stop trying to figure out why they're doing what they're

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Speaker 4: doing because there's no rational basis for this. Like the

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Speaker 4: tariff thing, it's personal, it's ego. I think we're probably

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Speaker 4: leveraging back deal money to... negotiate lower rates. There's no

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Speaker 4: rational policy. There's no true solid economist that would say

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Speaker 4: any of this is good. For affordability, for the economy,

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Speaker 4: for growth, for anything. None of it. This isn't taught

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Speaker 4: in any economic school anywhere.

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Speaker 1: I also think, like, he has everything. When you have

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Speaker 1: only a hammer, everything is a nail. So he said

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Speaker 1: that he's going to rename Lake Ontario, right? Lake America?

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Speaker 4: Yes. Is it technically the Gulf of America now? Or

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Speaker 4: is it just there to it, but the rest of

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Speaker 4: the world doesn't, right? It's just like its own thing?

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Speaker 1: Ask the Associated Press, right?

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: Straight of her moves is going to be the straight

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Speaker 4: of Mar-a-Lago or something.

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Speaker 1: Right. The Strait of Exxon. Yeah. So the Strait of Trump.

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Speaker 1: So let's talk about this because all of this happens

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Speaker 1: within the we are cruising into the midterm election and

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Speaker 1: we have this no historical precedent for a president that's

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Speaker 1: unpopular in modern. He is like there's the Bush line

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Speaker 1: and then there's the are we at the Bush after

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Speaker 1: Katrina line? Where are we here? We're at the The

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Speaker 1: Nixon right before resigning line?

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Speaker 4: Yeah. There aren't really historical parallels, I don't think. And

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Speaker 4: I think that people kind of floating those out there,

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Speaker 4: they're really more pundits than they are political professionals because

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Speaker 4: the coalitions are totally different. So it's kind of like

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Speaker 4: truly an apples to oranges comparison. It doesn't make any sense,

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Speaker 4: but I guess it plays well online.

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Speaker 1: So what are the coalitions?

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Speaker 4: So look, Republicans, by definition, by their constitution now, are

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Speaker 4: the beneficiaries of high turnout elections because Their base has

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Speaker 4: gotten less educated, less informed on issues, and less engaged,

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Speaker 4: lower propensity, as we call them, in the trade. Democrats

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Speaker 4: have been winning these lower turnout elections, which are midterms,

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Speaker 4: and doing better outperforming because their coalition has become more

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Speaker 4: college educated, more informed, and more, frankly, more rabid at

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Speaker 4: the idea of getting rid of Donald Trump and the Republicans.

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Speaker 4: So it begins structurally advantaging Democrats, but you add on

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Speaker 4: the fact that literally nothing is going well. for Trump

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Speaker 4: and the Republican, nothing is going well. Like he's not

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Speaker 4: over 50% on anything. And not only are his approvals

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Speaker 4: in the low 30s, but the people who believe the

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Speaker 4: country is heading in the right direction is sitting about 24, 25.

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Speaker 4: So there's a big gap between how people feel what

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Speaker 4: the country is doing and who he is. That's an

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Speaker 4: even bigger warning sign, which means there's more floor to

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Speaker 4: drop out as opposed to ceiling to rise. So there's

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Speaker 4: a structural problem. There's a political environment problem. There's all

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Speaker 4: sorts of problems. The economic indicators are worse than they've

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Speaker 4: been in the last 50 years. Nothing is going right.

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Speaker 4: And that leads us to, again, I think this New

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Speaker 4: York Times today saying there's multiple pathways to the Senate.

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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 4: The generic ballot, I think, is going to open up

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Speaker 4: the double digits by the time we're in November. People

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Speaker 4: keep saying, well, what do the Republicans need to do

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Speaker 4: to fix this? Everything. But the likelihood of this getting

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Speaker 4: worse is greater than it getting better for Republicans.

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Speaker 1: And what would getting worse look like?

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Speaker 4: I don't know, because it's already unprecedented. Further economic collapse,

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Speaker 4: the food supply getting poisoned.

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Speaker 1: Oh, wait, we're already there.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 4: Like gas hitting five dollars a gallon. Very late possibility

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Speaker 4: because Iran has no reason to get out of the

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Speaker 4: quagmire or let us up off of the mat.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: The trade war with Canada getting worse.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: More Epstein information.

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Speaker 1: Sure.

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Speaker 4: Like all of this is more likely than not. So

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Speaker 4: that's I guess that's what it gets worse. But can

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Speaker 4: he go below this low 30s approval level? Yes. Yes,

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Speaker 4: he can. For eight years, Molly, I thought there's no way.

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Speaker 4: that you can break down below a 38, 39. I

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Speaker 4: thought once he goes under 40, that's unprecedented territory. If

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Speaker 4: you had told me any time during the past eight years,

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Speaker 4: and I've been watching these approvals with Republicans, especially like

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Speaker 4: a hawk, to find out when this fever swamp would

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Speaker 4: break in the GOP, I would say never. It's never

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Speaker 4: going to get down below 35. We're already in that territory,

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Speaker 4: and most of the fundamentals say it can go lower.

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Speaker 1: I want you to, you have been on the road

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Speaker 1: in Texas and I really wanted you to come on

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Speaker 1: because I saw that you have been in Texas. You

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Speaker 1: have been talking to some very interesting candidates. I want

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Speaker 1: you to, I want, first of all, I want you

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Speaker 1: to explain what happened with Hispanic voters in in Texas

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Speaker 1: and then sort of what you're seeing now? Because there's

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Speaker 1: a history here, too.

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Speaker 4: There's a long history. And as Molly, I've been watching

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Speaker 4: the Latino vote for about 35 years now, back when

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Speaker 4: it wasn't that interesting.

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Speaker 5: Right.

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Speaker 4: Now it's become kind of the balance of power and

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Speaker 4: everything else. It's the only really group that's swinging 20

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Speaker 4: points in either direction. There's no other voter group that's

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Speaker 4: really a true swing voting bloc. So, look, I wrote

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Speaker 4: a book called The Latino Century Before the 24 Elections

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Speaker 4: saying there's a very good chance, guys, with all these

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Speaker 4: indicators that Donald Trump's going to win election with a

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Speaker 4: record share of the Hispanic vote. And nobody took it seriously. Afterwards,

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Speaker 4: the book kind of blew up and it was like, oh,

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Speaker 4: my God, why didn't you tell us earlier? Which, of course,

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Speaker 4: I was. And the answer really was that there was

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Speaker 4: a problem with the economics and the coalition of the

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Speaker 4: working class that the Democratic Party was struggling with and

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Speaker 4: still is struggling with. And so, you know, you add

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Speaker 4: on to that some of these cultural issues and they're not,

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Speaker 4: when I say cultural issues, I'm always nervous because everybody assumes, oh,

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Speaker 4: it's the Catholic pro-life and these are all people going

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Speaker 4: to mass and they're anti-gay. None of that is true.

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Speaker 4: None of that is accurate. This is really largely, especially

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Speaker 4: in this part of the country, a very rural community.

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Speaker 4: These are, they're cowboys.

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Speaker 6: Right.

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Speaker 4: These are gun owners. They're hunters. Like everybody that I

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Speaker 4: went and saw have gun racks and guns and they

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Speaker 4: live in rural areas. Their next neighbor is two miles

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Speaker 4: away and they all ride horses and grow hay.

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Speaker 1: So like, go ahead. You got to a very exciting candidate, too.

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Speaker 1: I want you to work that in there.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm sorry. So I decided to go to Texas

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Speaker 4: because that's where all my polling is showing all these

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Speaker 4: big moves. And there are there were two Candidates I

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Speaker 4: sat down with James Tallarico. I got man. I talked

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Speaker 4: to Tallarico about these questions specifically It was really phenomenal

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Speaker 4: what's happening with that campaign But the other is this

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Speaker 4: guy named Bobby Pulido which is going to become a

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Speaker 4: very big name after November the Democratic Party as much

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Speaker 4: as it's it's focused and eating itself on the DSA

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Speaker 4: versus corporate Democrats and Bobby Pulido, I think, is going

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Speaker 4: to change the whole narrative of the Democratic Party in

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Speaker 4: terms of getting this vote back into play. Bobby Pulido

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Speaker 4: is a two-time Latin Grammy award-winning Tejano singer. He is

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Speaker 4: like Mick Jagger in this part of the country. Texas-wide,

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Speaker 4: but certainly in the South Texas area, especially the Rio Grande.

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Speaker 4: And he is going into the reddest counties. I wrote

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Speaker 4: an article in my sub stack on a city called Beeville.

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Speaker 4: Beeville is a city of 13,000 people, 70% Hispanic, 70%

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Speaker 4: Trump voting county. He did a concert for free. He

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Speaker 4: and James Tallarico, Gina Hinojosa, about 3,000 people showed up, Molly.

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Speaker 4: And just in love with this guy. And if he

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Speaker 4: even just closes the margin in a city like Beeville,

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Speaker 4: Tallarico wins Texas. Pulido wins this congressional seat and the

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Speaker 4: whole narrative of the Democratic Party losing this base vote,

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Speaker 4: I think, begins to change. So, like I said, I

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Speaker 4: went down there, spent a few days there going to

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Speaker 4: Whataburger and Dairy Queen and talking to folks. And a

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Speaker 4: lot of these people were saying, yeah, look, I bet

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Speaker 4: there's one young Hispanic waitress at the one steakhouse in

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Speaker 4: town and she's 23, 24. Our family's been in Beeville

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Speaker 4: for like four or five generations. She said, look, I'm conservative.

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Speaker 4: I'm a Republican. But Bobby Polito is different. Like I'm

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Speaker 4: voting for Bobby Polito because he's one of us. He

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Speaker 4: understands us. He understands our values. So when I say

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Speaker 4: our values, she makes a distinction from where the Republican

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Speaker 4: Party and the Democratic Party lay their stakes on what

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Speaker 4: they stand for in political value vernacular versus What she's

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Speaker 4: really saying is this guy is of our community. He

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Speaker 4: understands us, and I trust him with what he's going

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Speaker 4: to be doing when he goes to Washington, D.C. So

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Speaker 4: this is a Trump plus 18 district. Trump won about

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Speaker 4: 18 points, and most of the polling has Bobby Plito

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Speaker 4: up six or seven points. That's a full 23-point swing.

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Speaker 4: And I think that, again, there's three or four candidates

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Speaker 4: down there in this area, cowboy hat wearing, belt buckles

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Speaker 4: as big as that part of Texas. who are unabashedly pro-Hispanic,

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Speaker 4: but they're cowboys, true and true, and they're Texans, and

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Speaker 4: they're proud of it. And they're saying, this guy Trump's

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Speaker 4: got to go, and Abbott and Paxton got to go.

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Speaker 4: And we need a new direction. And it's just, you

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Speaker 4: can feel there's a palpable energy that I think is

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Speaker 4: going to really ignite, not just that congressional district and Texas,

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Speaker 4: but really, I think, the national narrative for the Democratic Party.

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Speaker 1: Now, Texas has been redistricted to help Trump.

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Speaker 4: This is one of those.

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Speaker 6: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So say more about how that will, because Rio Grande, remember,

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Speaker 1: was the Beto seed.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So talk us through that.

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Speaker 4: This is that area where the Republicans, when they went

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Speaker 4: and go, oh, see, the Hispanics finally figured it out.

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Speaker 4: They woke up and realized that they were Republicans. Trump

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Speaker 4: puts in a call to Greg Abbott and says, hey,

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Speaker 4: we're in trouble. We're going to lose the midterms. We

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Speaker 4: need you to redistrict, gerrymander us five new seats. Cut

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Speaker 4: up Texas again and create five new seats. Well, Texas

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Speaker 4: was already pretty jittered, Molly. And the only way they

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Speaker 4: could go is they started to believe that all of

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Speaker 4: these Hispanics who voted Republican, and frankly, they have been

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Speaker 4: for the past three or four election cycles. They have

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Speaker 4: been since the Obama years. They've been moving away from

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Speaker 4: the Democrats. But the big one, when everybody realized, oh,

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Speaker 4: my God, we've got a really big problem, was in

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Speaker 4: the Trump Trump's 2024 race. And so what they did

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Speaker 4: was they cut out three of these five new Republican,

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Speaker 4: quote unquote, Republican seats are Hispanic majority seats. And that

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Speaker 4: led a lot of people to use the term dummy man,

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Speaker 4: or myself included. There's no evidence saying these people were

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Speaker 4: becoming more Republican. There's a lot of evidence saying they're

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Speaker 4: becoming less Democrat.

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Speaker 2: That's true.

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Speaker 4: But nobody's saying that. There's no polling, no scientific evidence

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Speaker 4: saying these people love Donald Trump or like him. And

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Speaker 4: when as soon as they started cutting those numbers, and

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Speaker 4: by the way, to kind of bring this full circle,

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Speaker 4: when he announced on Liberation Day all of these tariffs

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Speaker 4: against Canada and with lumber and Mexico with drywall and

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Speaker 4: shut down the housing industry. It's all Mexican workers who

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Speaker 4: are building virtually every house in America is built by

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Speaker 4: a Mexican worker swinging a hammer. So you saw the

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Speaker 4: economy really, really deeply contract. And it is it is economics,

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Speaker 4: first and foremost, the ice raids and stuff. I know

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Speaker 4: this will come as a shock to your audience. Yes,

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Speaker 4: they are impactful, but the truth is that really strikes

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Speaker 4: anger and fear in the heart of white progressives more

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Speaker 4: than it does conservative Hispanics.

433
00:24:32,520 --> 00:24:35,260
Speaker 1: But your relatives are being deported?

434
00:24:35,300 --> 00:24:38,500
Speaker 4: When you've been here for five generations, you don't have

435
00:24:38,540 --> 00:24:40,410
Speaker 4: a whole lot of relatives on that side of the border.

436
00:24:40,850 --> 00:24:45,570
Speaker 1: Yes, but also, like, if you think about in Florida,

437
00:24:45,950 --> 00:24:50,750
Speaker 1: we saw— Cuban voters, voters who considered themselves to be

438
00:24:50,810 --> 00:24:55,060
Speaker 1: more American than most Americans, having relatives be deported. And

439
00:24:55,100 --> 00:24:55,820
Speaker 1: they were shocked.

440
00:24:56,450 --> 00:24:58,610
Speaker 4: Yeah, and that's never happened with the Cubans before because

441
00:24:58,630 --> 00:25:02,159
Speaker 4: the Cuban exceptionalism is a real thing with the Latino diasporas.

442
00:25:02,600 --> 00:25:06,199
Speaker 4: But let's not conflate Cubans in South Florida with Tecmanos

443
00:25:06,240 --> 00:25:06,859
Speaker 4: in South Texas.

444
00:25:06,920 --> 00:25:08,619
Speaker 1: No, I know. It's a completely different group.

445
00:25:08,640 --> 00:25:11,179
Speaker 4: It's a completely different group. But yeah, look, I'm not

446
00:25:11,220 --> 00:25:13,360
Speaker 4: saying that isn't an issue. It is, but what I'm

447
00:25:13,400 --> 00:25:13,739
Speaker 4: saying is..

448
00:25:13,940 --> 00:25:14,980
Speaker 1: But it's not as big an issue.

449
00:25:15,000 --> 00:25:17,080
Speaker 4: What I'm saying is kind of my friends on the

450
00:25:17,140 --> 00:25:20,959
Speaker 4: left have this obsessive dynamic where they need to kind

451
00:25:21,010 --> 00:25:25,710
Speaker 4: of make... Latinos, this exotic little creature that's all about immigration.

452
00:25:25,730 --> 00:25:28,670
Speaker 4: It's frankly, it's condescending. The truth is, it's really clear

453
00:25:28,710 --> 00:25:31,770
Speaker 4: what's going on. It's the damn economy. It's always the economy,

454
00:25:31,790 --> 00:25:34,189
Speaker 4: the economy, the economy. And if you start fixing the

455
00:25:34,230 --> 00:25:36,650
Speaker 4: economy and focus on the economy and fix that problem,

456
00:25:37,050 --> 00:25:40,330
Speaker 4: a lot of these other major authoritarian problems go away

457
00:25:40,369 --> 00:25:42,990
Speaker 4: because you're not losing working class people. It's just you

458
00:25:43,030 --> 00:25:45,930
Speaker 4: forgot about the working class. You left open this vacuum

459
00:25:45,970 --> 00:25:48,270
Speaker 4: for this demagogue to fill it. And that's, I think,

460
00:25:48,290 --> 00:25:50,280
Speaker 4: the big problem that we've got to fix in this country.

461
00:25:52,320 --> 00:25:55,280
Speaker 1: So it sounds like what's happening in Texas is pretty

462
00:25:55,340 --> 00:26:00,669
Speaker 1: specific to Texas, which is what we're seeing in other places,

463
00:26:00,750 --> 00:26:04,030
Speaker 1: like what's happening in Nebraska is very specific to Nebraska.

464
00:26:04,070 --> 00:26:08,440
Speaker 1: What's happening in Iowa with Rob Sand is very specific

465
00:26:08,500 --> 00:26:11,490
Speaker 1: to the groundwater and the farmers and the tariffs. So

466
00:26:11,790 --> 00:26:14,920
Speaker 1: in Texas, you have these five seats that are these

467
00:26:15,040 --> 00:26:20,120
Speaker 1: Latino seats, right? And I want you to explain what

468
00:26:20,160 --> 00:26:23,120
Speaker 1: it is that these candidates are offering the voters.

469
00:26:23,340 --> 00:26:25,940
Speaker 4: Yeah, but I want to qualify this just a little

470
00:26:25,960 --> 00:26:29,070
Speaker 4: bit because I think you did characterize something that is important. Yes,

471
00:26:29,170 --> 00:26:32,090
Speaker 4: Rob Sand in Iowa, DSA in New York City and

472
00:26:32,130 --> 00:26:35,840
Speaker 4: Los Angeles, Cubans in South Florida and Tejano's in Texas,

473
00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:38,920
Speaker 4: but there is one common thread, and this is where

474
00:26:38,960 --> 00:26:41,899
Speaker 4: Tallarica really hits it on the head, and Ossoff is

475
00:26:41,920 --> 00:26:44,830
Speaker 4: starting to pick up on it too. The common thread

476
00:26:45,130 --> 00:26:49,690
Speaker 4: that unites us is this economic chasm that is developing

477
00:26:49,710 --> 00:26:52,710
Speaker 4: where people feel they're falling further and further behind. That's

478
00:26:52,750 --> 00:26:57,450
Speaker 4: what's uniting people together across all of these, the racial

479
00:26:57,490 --> 00:27:00,670
Speaker 4: identity politics and all the division of all of these

480
00:27:00,750 --> 00:27:04,070
Speaker 4: issues It all starts to melt away when somebody starts

481
00:27:04,109 --> 00:27:06,710
Speaker 4: to put into English language that people can relate to

482
00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:11,879
Speaker 4: saying the corruption of this regime is starting to affect

483
00:27:11,920 --> 00:27:16,540
Speaker 4: our daily lives. The cost of things is incontrovertible. Even

484
00:27:16,580 --> 00:27:18,620
Speaker 4: when he tells you it's a hoax, you either believe

485
00:27:18,660 --> 00:27:20,800
Speaker 4: your wallet and your gas tank or you believe you're

486
00:27:20,840 --> 00:27:25,120
Speaker 4: lying eyes with Donald Trump. There is a middle class

487
00:27:25,280 --> 00:27:29,139
Speaker 4: revolt that has been united. So, yes. Yes, there are

488
00:27:29,200 --> 00:27:32,659
Speaker 4: regional differences. Bobby Polito is not going to sell in

489
00:27:33,020 --> 00:27:36,240
Speaker 4: Los Angeles the same way Abdul El-Sayed is going to

490
00:27:36,280 --> 00:27:38,739
Speaker 4: sell in the Rio Grande. That's not right. But they

491
00:27:38,800 --> 00:27:42,840
Speaker 4: can both talk about the business is not just being anti-Trump.

492
00:27:42,859 --> 00:27:45,220
Speaker 4: I do believe the Democratic Party is finally starting to

493
00:27:45,270 --> 00:27:49,210
Speaker 4: find its damn legs, which is starting to articulate agendas

494
00:27:49,250 --> 00:27:52,510
Speaker 4: to fix these problems. And that's what you're seeing with

495
00:27:52,570 --> 00:27:54,570
Speaker 4: some of these candidates, whether they're on the left wing

496
00:27:54,590 --> 00:27:56,770
Speaker 4: of the party or the more centrist wing of the party.

497
00:27:57,109 --> 00:28:00,369
Speaker 4: They're all saying the same thing. Now, in Texas, it

498
00:28:00,430 --> 00:28:04,230
Speaker 4: begins again with the economy. People are economically suffering. The

499
00:28:04,340 --> 00:28:09,930
Speaker 4: beef fiasco is incredibly real down there. These are cattle ranchers. Right.

500
00:28:10,010 --> 00:28:14,119
Speaker 1: Explain the beef fiasco, because that's important. That's another fucked

501
00:28:14,180 --> 00:28:16,480
Speaker 1: up thing that Trump is doing to himself right before

502
00:28:16,520 --> 00:28:17,000
Speaker 1: the midterms.

503
00:28:17,020 --> 00:28:23,240
Speaker 4: Donald Trump is subsidizing Argentinian beef farmers and literally killing

504
00:28:23,660 --> 00:28:27,889
Speaker 4: off the businesses, five generations of cattle ranchers in Texas.

505
00:28:28,609 --> 00:28:34,429
Speaker 4: are up in arms because he's subsidizing Argentinian beef at

506
00:28:34,470 --> 00:28:37,869
Speaker 4: the expense of American beef farmers. Like, crazy.

507
00:28:37,890 --> 00:28:38,610
Speaker 1: Crazy.

508
00:28:38,710 --> 00:28:41,970
Speaker 4: These were his hardest-for supporters, and he's just poking a

509
00:28:42,900 --> 00:28:45,700
Speaker 4: stick in their eye. And then, again, the tariffs. It's

510
00:28:45,720 --> 00:28:48,040
Speaker 4: not just with Canada. It's with Mexico, right? It's like

511
00:28:48,060 --> 00:28:53,280
Speaker 4: this trade war, and then harming... Yes, the deportations are

512
00:28:53,820 --> 00:28:58,060
Speaker 4: eliminating the ability for agriculture and construction... That's what was

513
00:28:58,080 --> 00:29:00,380
Speaker 4: happening in Florida. That's what's happening in California. That's what's

514
00:29:00,400 --> 00:29:04,400
Speaker 4: happening in Texas. So, yes, all of these policies, you

515
00:29:05,060 --> 00:29:07,070
Speaker 4: have to begin at some point to ask the question,

516
00:29:07,120 --> 00:29:10,910
Speaker 4: is this just basic incompetence or is he so competently

517
00:29:11,450 --> 00:29:14,990
Speaker 4: undermining the country for another nefarious reason? Like, that's a

518
00:29:15,010 --> 00:29:17,470
Speaker 4: very reasonable question to ask at this point because you

519
00:29:17,520 --> 00:29:18,620
Speaker 4: can't be that stupid.

520
00:29:19,060 --> 00:29:19,940
Speaker 1: No, you can be.

521
00:29:20,460 --> 00:29:20,800
Speaker 5: Fair enough.

522
00:29:21,260 --> 00:29:23,580
Speaker 1: I don't know. Maybe. I think you probably can be.

523
00:29:23,920 --> 00:29:27,740
Speaker 1: I want you to explain to us now, where are

524
00:29:27,800 --> 00:29:32,460
Speaker 1: the other states where we're seeing Latino voters? Because you've

525
00:29:32,510 --> 00:29:35,130
Speaker 1: been in some other states. I want you to talk

526
00:29:35,170 --> 00:29:35,530
Speaker 1: through that.

527
00:29:35,650 --> 00:29:38,490
Speaker 4: Well, so and here's the thing. There's like 17 really

528
00:29:38,630 --> 00:29:42,280
Speaker 4: key congressional House elections. seats. Over half of those, the

529
00:29:42,440 --> 00:29:45,150
Speaker 4: Hispanic vote is going to make the difference. And when

530
00:29:45,170 --> 00:29:49,370
Speaker 4: you start to look at the North Carolina, Georgia, those

531
00:29:49,390 --> 00:29:51,890
Speaker 4: are already locking those up in the Democratic column. But

532
00:29:51,910 --> 00:29:55,620
Speaker 4: you've got huge Hispanic communities there now, too. You've got

533
00:29:55,630 --> 00:29:57,630
Speaker 4: to look at Texas. Of course, it's going to be everything.

534
00:29:57,690 --> 00:30:00,480
Speaker 4: Does Tallarico win? Yes, depending on the margin he gets

535
00:30:00,500 --> 00:30:05,040
Speaker 4: with Hispanics, specifically Hispanic men. Gina Hinojosa is tightening up

536
00:30:05,080 --> 00:30:08,340
Speaker 4: against Abbott. They may lose the governor's seat here if

537
00:30:08,380 --> 00:30:11,100
Speaker 4: Gina Hinojosa wins. And she did a really good job, too,

538
00:30:11,160 --> 00:30:14,060
Speaker 4: at this free concert in Beeville. And then the five

539
00:30:14,100 --> 00:30:16,860
Speaker 4: congressional seats where these Hispanic candidates, I think, are going

540
00:30:16,880 --> 00:30:19,660
Speaker 4: to do really quite well. I'm in Denver now looking

541
00:30:19,680 --> 00:30:22,920
Speaker 4: at Manny Rutanel's seat just outside of Denver. This is

542
00:30:23,020 --> 00:30:25,640
Speaker 4: a key battleground seat, one of the most contested races

543
00:30:25,660 --> 00:30:28,300
Speaker 4: where you've got a Hispanic candidate, big Hispanic voting bloc

544
00:30:28,320 --> 00:30:31,000
Speaker 4: that could bring this into the win column, likely will

545
00:30:31,080 --> 00:30:34,840
Speaker 4: for the Democrats. Randy Villegas out in California's 22 against

546
00:30:34,880 --> 00:30:38,280
Speaker 4: David Valadao, one of the most susceptible, vulnerable Republicans in

547
00:30:38,850 --> 00:30:41,670
Speaker 4: in the country because of his vote on HR1, the

548
00:30:41,710 --> 00:30:44,709
Speaker 4: Medicare stuff. That district has some of the most, the

549
00:30:44,750 --> 00:30:48,340
Speaker 4: highest rates of Medicare recipients in the entire country in

550
00:30:48,380 --> 00:30:52,000
Speaker 4: that district. And this guy votes against Medicare, votes for

551
00:30:52,020 --> 00:30:57,800
Speaker 4: Medicare cuts. Unbelievable, stupid politics. So a long way of saying,

552
00:30:57,880 --> 00:30:59,980
Speaker 4: with all these 17 seats, most of them will be

553
00:31:00,030 --> 00:31:02,810
Speaker 4: determined the outcome by the Hispanic vote. There's these four

554
00:31:02,850 --> 00:31:04,990
Speaker 4: that I just mentioned that are really, really critical, this

555
00:31:05,050 --> 00:31:08,140
Speaker 4: core four. But we're also looking at control of the Senate.

556
00:31:08,300 --> 00:31:11,490
Speaker 4: If Hispanics break for Democrats the same way they broke

557
00:31:11,510 --> 00:31:13,620
Speaker 4: for Republicans, and most of the polling is saying they will,

558
00:31:14,390 --> 00:31:16,510
Speaker 4: the Democrats pick up the Senate and they pick up

559
00:31:16,550 --> 00:31:17,270
Speaker 4: certainly the House.

560
00:31:17,290 --> 00:31:20,710
Speaker 1: So that would be, what seats would the Latino vote

561
00:31:20,750 --> 00:31:22,530
Speaker 1: be decisive in the Senate?

562
00:31:22,770 --> 00:31:26,030
Speaker 4: Certainly North Carolina, certainly, you know, Georgia, but those are

563
00:31:26,050 --> 00:31:28,310
Speaker 4: already moving in that direction. But in large part, because again,

564
00:31:28,350 --> 00:31:31,950
Speaker 4: like I said, these votes that are swinging this way matter. Texas,

565
00:31:32,120 --> 00:31:35,500
Speaker 4: of course, matters. Iowa is going to be really critical.

566
00:31:35,580 --> 00:31:38,840
Speaker 4: You've got six, seven percent. Ohio, the Latino vote in

567
00:31:38,920 --> 00:31:41,780
Speaker 4: Ohio will be determinative. These races that are going to

568
00:31:42,020 --> 00:31:44,390
Speaker 4: come down to two or three points are you're going

569
00:31:44,410 --> 00:31:47,130
Speaker 4: to have the Hispanic vote break is going to be

570
00:31:47,170 --> 00:31:50,440
Speaker 4: the deciding factor. And when it was voting almost 50

571
00:31:50,440 --> 00:31:53,140
Speaker 4: percent for Trump in Ohio, if it's now voting for

572
00:31:53,140 --> 00:31:55,360
Speaker 4: 20 percent for the Republican, you're going to have to

573
00:31:55,400 --> 00:31:56,900
Speaker 4: put that in the win column for the Democrats.

574
00:31:57,180 --> 00:32:00,330
Speaker 1: I want you to just say two more things about Ohio.

575
00:32:00,510 --> 00:32:03,970
Speaker 1: What what did they like Vivek? Talk us through.

576
00:32:04,370 --> 00:32:08,070
Speaker 4: No, but I look at these nuanced questions are really,

577
00:32:08,110 --> 00:32:11,490
Speaker 4: really critical. I think Vivek's got a Kind of like

578
00:32:11,530 --> 00:32:14,430
Speaker 4: watching him suffer and struggle like with white evangelical rural

579
00:32:14,470 --> 00:32:17,820
Speaker 4: Christians It's like this is what you get but look

580
00:32:17,840 --> 00:32:21,920
Speaker 4: the fundamentals are so bad when you're looking at Texas

581
00:32:21,980 --> 00:32:25,020
Speaker 4: in play and North Carolina safely being locked up and

582
00:32:25,180 --> 00:32:28,660
Speaker 4: Ossoff walking away in Georgia you have to understand that

583
00:32:29,130 --> 00:32:31,570
Speaker 4: That's a sign that the fundamentals of this race are

584
00:32:31,750 --> 00:32:35,230
Speaker 4: far bigger than like these fights the Democrats are worried about. Like,

585
00:32:35,570 --> 00:32:37,750
Speaker 4: it doesn't matter if it's a DSA candidate or a

586
00:32:37,840 --> 00:32:41,160
Speaker 4: centrist Democrat in 99 percent of the seats. It doesn't matter.

587
00:32:41,260 --> 00:32:43,300
Speaker 4: A tree stump could win in most of these seats

588
00:32:43,760 --> 00:32:47,100
Speaker 4: because people are so pissed off. And so most of

589
00:32:47,140 --> 00:32:49,520
Speaker 4: the energy, look, it's natural. We're going to do that.

590
00:32:49,580 --> 00:32:52,180
Speaker 4: It's politics. But there's just way too much hand wringing

591
00:32:52,220 --> 00:32:55,210
Speaker 4: going on in Democratic primaries right now. on this fight

592
00:32:55,310 --> 00:32:58,010
Speaker 4: about Democrats and socialists and whether they can win or not.

593
00:32:58,670 --> 00:33:02,340
Speaker 4: The determining factor on whether these guys are gonna win

594
00:33:02,360 --> 00:33:06,000
Speaker 4: or not are by far and away the basic fundamentals

595
00:33:06,060 --> 00:33:09,000
Speaker 4: of the race. How unpopular the incumbent party is, how

596
00:33:09,140 --> 00:33:12,920
Speaker 4: bad the economy is, how unpopular and pissed off and

597
00:33:13,010 --> 00:33:16,710
Speaker 4: fatigued people are with Donald Trump. The cost of gas,

598
00:33:16,790 --> 00:33:20,710
Speaker 4: like there's nothing going well. So yes, people like Vivek,

599
00:33:21,250 --> 00:33:23,990
Speaker 4: People in Ohio are not going to like Vivek Ramaswamy

600
00:33:24,010 --> 00:33:26,010
Speaker 4: for a whole host of reasons we can kind of

601
00:33:26,090 --> 00:33:29,890
Speaker 4: list off. But the main reason is everything is breaking

602
00:33:29,970 --> 00:33:32,310
Speaker 4: against them in an environment where he needs a lot

603
00:33:32,350 --> 00:33:35,120
Speaker 4: more going right for him to win. There's nothing going

604
00:33:35,140 --> 00:33:35,760
Speaker 4: in that direction.

605
00:33:35,780 --> 00:33:38,080
Speaker 1: Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, Mike Mitchell.

606
00:33:38,260 --> 00:33:40,060
Speaker 4: Always great to be with you, Molly. Hope it was helpful.

607
00:33:40,940 --> 00:33:44,040
Speaker 1: Dave Weigel is a reporter at 17.

608
00:33:44,040 --> 00:33:44,480
Speaker 2: Welcome.

609
00:33:44,500 --> 00:33:45,220
Speaker 1: Welcome, Dave.

610
00:33:46,040 --> 00:33:46,400
Speaker 5: Hello.

611
00:33:46,860 --> 00:33:50,040
Speaker 1: I wanted to talk to you because this is one

612
00:33:50,080 --> 00:33:52,540
Speaker 1: of the most interesting midterms. This might be one of

613
00:33:52,560 --> 00:33:56,270
Speaker 1: the most interesting midterms that we've ever covered. I mean,

614
00:33:56,290 --> 00:34:01,890
Speaker 1: there are certainly, like, there are echoes of 2000. Sure.

615
00:34:02,330 --> 00:34:08,220
Speaker 1: There's some. And there are echoes of other midterms, historic midterms, but...

616
00:34:09,120 --> 00:34:14,700
Speaker 1: But the fundamental premise that the president is at this

617
00:34:14,920 --> 00:34:19,020
Speaker 1: incredibly low approval rating. Right. I mean, that is what's

618
00:34:19,100 --> 00:34:22,660
Speaker 1: driving this expansion of the map. Right. So talk us

619
00:34:22,700 --> 00:34:25,660
Speaker 1: through the sort of macro and then we'll go to

620
00:34:25,680 --> 00:34:26,120
Speaker 1: the micro.

621
00:34:26,660 --> 00:34:29,469
Speaker 5: Yeah, I guess that I'm more interested in the differences

622
00:34:29,530 --> 00:34:31,710
Speaker 5: between this cycle and other cycles. I've seen some of

623
00:34:31,730 --> 00:34:35,819
Speaker 5: the comparisons to other midterms. The easy answer is no

624
00:34:35,890 --> 00:34:37,460
Speaker 5: one steps in the same river twice. It's always a

625
00:34:37,480 --> 00:34:40,879
Speaker 5: different midterm, different people are voting. But also just the

626
00:34:41,140 --> 00:34:42,919
Speaker 5: Democratic Party is weaker than.

627
00:34:42,820 --> 00:34:45,260
Speaker 6: It was in 2006.

628
00:34:45,469 --> 00:34:48,390
Speaker 5: And the president's less popular than he was in 20,

629
00:34:48,390 --> 00:34:50,630
Speaker 5: because in 2018, the one thing you'd find talking to

630
00:34:50,650 --> 00:34:53,830
Speaker 5: Republicans is, yeah, he did this. There's backlash to this.

631
00:34:53,890 --> 00:34:56,660
Speaker 5: We're losing this suburban race. But the economy is great.

632
00:34:56,700 --> 00:34:58,400
Speaker 5: People think the economy is great. And he's never had

633
00:34:58,420 --> 00:35:01,899
Speaker 5: to run really ever with people thinking the economy was bad.

634
00:35:01,940 --> 00:35:04,860
Speaker 5: I point out even in 2020, when most of the

635
00:35:04,880 --> 00:35:07,739
Speaker 5: COVID jobs had not come back, most people in an

636
00:35:07,880 --> 00:35:10,270
Speaker 5: exit polling said, yeah, I trust him on the economy.

637
00:35:10,890 --> 00:35:12,510
Speaker 6: And they don't right now. So nice.

638
00:35:13,210 --> 00:35:16,610
Speaker 5: I think people boulderize what James Carville said when he

639
00:35:16,650 --> 00:35:17,890
Speaker 5: said it's the economy, stupid.

640
00:35:17,910 --> 00:35:19,610
Speaker 6: It doesn't mean every election is about the economy.

641
00:35:19,670 --> 00:35:22,049
Speaker 5: He meant when people are trying to turn the conversation

642
00:35:22,090 --> 00:35:24,839
Speaker 5: back to Bill Clinton's scandals, talk about the economy. And

643
00:35:24,940 --> 00:35:28,100
Speaker 5: so Trump kind of tries to do that. For as

644
00:35:28,140 --> 00:35:31,759
Speaker 5: good a messaging as Republicans are and Democrats aren't, he's

645
00:35:31,800 --> 00:35:34,260
Speaker 5: always having these events that are ostensibly about the economy.

646
00:35:34,340 --> 00:35:37,080
Speaker 5: And he goes off course to what he finds interesting.

647
00:35:37,500 --> 00:35:39,580
Speaker 5: So he's not, he really hasn't done much to convince

648
00:35:39,600 --> 00:35:42,940
Speaker 5: people the economy is great. He's betting on them saying, well,

649
00:35:42,980 --> 00:35:45,359
Speaker 5: things are, things would be worse under the Democrats because

650
00:35:45,390 --> 00:35:47,319
Speaker 5: they're crazy. That's their whole midterm campaign.

651
00:35:47,840 --> 00:35:51,350
Speaker 1: And it is, again, like that's the, when you talk

652
00:35:51,390 --> 00:35:56,009
Speaker 1: about Democrats, in 2018, Democrats could basically say orange man

653
00:35:56,050 --> 00:35:58,589
Speaker 1: bad and people would vote for them. Like it was

654
00:35:58,650 --> 00:36:03,710
Speaker 1: a much more, you could just say he's bad, we'll

655
00:36:03,730 --> 00:36:08,810
Speaker 1: be different. But the problem is, voters had that experience.

656
00:36:08,910 --> 00:36:11,730
Speaker 1: It wasn't, didn't give them what they wanted and they're

657
00:36:11,750 --> 00:36:15,290
Speaker 1: still mad. I mean, don't you think that's basically?

658
00:36:15,810 --> 00:36:18,590
Speaker 5: Yeah, this is the thing that makes Democrats and focus

659
00:36:18,640 --> 00:36:20,960
Speaker 5: groups at the door is most optimistic is that they

660
00:36:20,980 --> 00:36:24,120
Speaker 5: just encounter so many voters who had an idealized version

661
00:36:24,160 --> 00:36:27,440
Speaker 5: of what things would be like under Trump. And again,

662
00:36:27,460 --> 00:36:30,989
Speaker 5: Democrats don't, I guess they don't analyze themselves as much

663
00:36:31,010 --> 00:36:31,509
Speaker 5: as I'd like to.

664
00:36:32,170 --> 00:36:33,450
Speaker 6: This happened with Biden.

665
00:36:33,469 --> 00:36:35,910
Speaker 5: Biden was competitive in part because people had a fond

666
00:36:35,950 --> 00:36:40,790
Speaker 5: memory of the Obama years where, despite Trump winning in 2016,

667
00:36:40,770 --> 00:36:42,630
Speaker 5: people on election day in 2016 also said the economy

668
00:36:42,650 --> 00:36:43,169
Speaker 5: is pretty good.

669
00:36:43,570 --> 00:36:44,430
Speaker 6: They had bounced back.

670
00:36:44,489 --> 00:36:46,650
Speaker 5: It had bounced back more than Romney said it would

671
00:36:46,670 --> 00:36:49,350
Speaker 5: if he was president. And this is the first time

672
00:36:49,390 --> 00:36:53,120
Speaker 5: Democrats have had to run since the Public memory being,

673
00:36:53,340 --> 00:36:55,620
Speaker 5: I don't like the economy when those guys are in charge.

674
00:36:55,680 --> 00:36:58,200
Speaker 5: I don't trust it. I think it hurts Republicans that

675
00:36:58,320 --> 00:37:00,839
Speaker 5: Biden was such a forgettable president that people are not

676
00:37:01,219 --> 00:37:04,759
Speaker 5: out there telling the Democratic door knockers, oh, yes, I

677
00:37:04,780 --> 00:37:08,920
Speaker 5: remember what the inflation rate was on average throughout Biden's term.

678
00:37:09,020 --> 00:37:11,890
Speaker 5: It's not very successful, and Republicans bring that up. What

679
00:37:11,910 --> 00:37:14,140
Speaker 5: they've done instead, you see what they've done instead, what

680
00:37:14,160 --> 00:37:17,090
Speaker 5: they'd like to do, prefer to do, is to elevate

681
00:37:17,130 --> 00:37:19,129
Speaker 5: the most left-wing Democrat they can and say, well, that's

682
00:37:19,150 --> 00:37:20,730
Speaker 5: the person who's going to be empowered.

683
00:37:20,590 --> 00:37:24,209
Speaker 6: If you win. And a little bit of asymmetry there.

684
00:37:25,210 --> 00:37:27,890
Speaker 5: Democrats are very comfortable running against Donald Trump himself and

685
00:37:27,930 --> 00:37:31,709
Speaker 5: his administration itself. And the Republican campaign is a lot

686
00:37:31,770 --> 00:37:33,450
Speaker 5: about Hassan Baikar and.

687
00:37:34,570 --> 00:37:36,860
Speaker 6: AOC and people who will not..

688
00:37:37,060 --> 00:37:39,940
Speaker 5: My favorite candidate, well, in regards to this, is Mike Lawler,

689
00:37:39,960 --> 00:37:42,180
Speaker 5: who barely runs against his opponent, just makes his entire

690
00:37:42,219 --> 00:37:46,299
Speaker 5: campaign about Zoran Mamdani and whatever left is in the news.

691
00:37:48,020 --> 00:37:52,530
Speaker 1: What Mike Lawler's doing now... is the same thing that

692
00:37:52,930 --> 00:37:55,890
Speaker 1: is what Bruce Blankman, I don't know if you know

693
00:37:55,930 --> 00:37:56,490
Speaker 1: who that is.

694
00:37:56,510 --> 00:37:57,060
Speaker 6: Yeah, of course.

695
00:37:57,560 --> 00:38:00,520
Speaker 1: Yes, you know who that is, but Blankman, but no

696
00:38:00,600 --> 00:38:03,049
Speaker 1: one else knows who Blankman is. Blankman is running for

697
00:38:03,090 --> 00:38:06,870
Speaker 1: governor of New York State. I'm telling you, most people

698
00:38:06,890 --> 00:38:09,920
Speaker 1: don't know who that person is. And I live in

699
00:38:09,940 --> 00:38:13,640
Speaker 1: New York State. But and you don't. So, I mean,

700
00:38:13,700 --> 00:38:14,319
Speaker 1: I don't know.

701
00:38:14,540 --> 00:38:14,739
Speaker 2: Right.

702
00:38:14,760 --> 00:38:19,830
Speaker 1: But but but he is running. There is there is

703
00:38:19,890 --> 00:38:25,750
Speaker 1: a section of new of affluent New Yorkers. most of

704
00:38:25,790 --> 00:38:29,270
Speaker 1: whom are Jewish, some of whom are not, who believe

705
00:38:29,710 --> 00:38:35,430
Speaker 1: that blank men win running on Zoran. And that, I think,

706
00:38:35,489 --> 00:38:40,410
Speaker 1: is what Lawler's doing. It's just because they think this

707
00:38:40,430 --> 00:38:43,200
Speaker 1: is and that's the sort of old script, I think. Like,

708
00:38:43,239 --> 00:38:48,960
Speaker 1: remember how Stefanik was planning to run against Zoran, but

709
00:38:49,000 --> 00:38:52,719
Speaker 1: then Trump said Zoran was great and it totally messed

710
00:38:52,760 --> 00:38:53,250
Speaker 1: everything up.

711
00:38:53,780 --> 00:38:57,680
Speaker 5: Yes, the polling in New York does fine. So if

712
00:38:57,920 --> 00:38:59,480
Speaker 5: I can explain New York to you, you know about it.

713
00:38:59,739 --> 00:39:00,960
Speaker 6: No, please do.

714
00:39:01,160 --> 00:39:03,980
Speaker 1: Please do, because you're also explaining it to our listeners.

715
00:39:04,660 --> 00:39:08,290
Speaker 5: But Nassau County, Suffolk County, Long Island voted a lot

716
00:39:08,310 --> 00:39:11,690
Speaker 5: like Westchester County 20 years ago. It now is is

717
00:39:11,790 --> 00:39:16,150
Speaker 5: much more MAGA friendly. Westchester County and to extend the

718
00:39:16,170 --> 00:39:19,370
Speaker 5: Hudson Valley has become much more progressive. Different people have

719
00:39:19,390 --> 00:39:21,299
Speaker 5: moved into it. And so, yes, that is a we

720
00:39:21,300 --> 00:39:25,300
Speaker 5: found the Democrats are running for reelection on Long Island.

721
00:39:25,300 --> 00:39:28,469
Speaker 5: Have to distance themselves from from on down. I say

722
00:39:28,510 --> 00:39:31,290
Speaker 5: have to they choose to distance themselves. They think it's

723
00:39:31,350 --> 00:39:34,160
Speaker 5: bad to run to be associated with somebody who has

724
00:39:34,219 --> 00:39:35,960
Speaker 5: not driven the city into into.

725
00:39:36,440 --> 00:39:38,500
Speaker 6: You know, Tom Penn, 1975.

726
00:39:38,500 --> 00:39:40,080
Speaker 5: He's not, it's not been as bad as the Republican

727
00:39:40,100 --> 00:39:42,900
Speaker 5: Senate would be if you don't like Mamdani. But rest

728
00:39:42,920 --> 00:39:44,820
Speaker 5: of the state, yeah, that's not really been a winner.

729
00:39:44,950 --> 00:39:48,210
Speaker 5: And one piece that's been missing of the Republican effort

730
00:39:48,230 --> 00:39:50,130
Speaker 5: for 2022 is just this.

731
00:39:50,489 --> 00:39:51,750
Speaker 6: Benefit to Mamdani last year.

732
00:39:51,770 --> 00:39:55,569
Speaker 5: The salience of crime is way down because there is less,

733
00:39:55,910 --> 00:39:59,480
Speaker 5: there is one less crime. And there are phases in,

734
00:39:59,660 --> 00:40:01,380
Speaker 5: when the crime's going down, you want to use it politically.

735
00:40:01,400 --> 00:40:04,980
Speaker 5: You generally, there are phases in how you talk about it. First, yes,

736
00:40:05,000 --> 00:40:06,979
Speaker 5: the numbers are down, but that's because the real crimes

737
00:40:07,020 --> 00:40:09,640
Speaker 5: are not being reported. And then eventually the crime varies down,

738
00:40:09,660 --> 00:40:12,790
Speaker 5: you're talking about something else. Or you're highlighting the most

739
00:40:12,969 --> 00:40:15,330
Speaker 5: extreme case that it shared on social media, which social

740
00:40:15,350 --> 00:40:16,230
Speaker 5: media is pretty good for.

741
00:40:16,510 --> 00:40:18,230
Speaker 6: But that's just not there this time.

742
00:40:18,630 --> 00:40:21,089
Speaker 5: Even on Long Island, people are not as worried about

743
00:40:21,150 --> 00:40:23,229
Speaker 5: crime in New York because they're just... There just isn't

744
00:40:23,510 --> 00:40:27,100
Speaker 5: as much as there was in 2020. If this discussion

745
00:40:27,120 --> 00:40:30,219
Speaker 5: Democrats have had about recanting some of what they said

746
00:40:30,280 --> 00:40:32,339
Speaker 5: in 2020, Mamdani was the first person to do that.

747
00:40:32,360 --> 00:40:33,759
Speaker 6: Said, yeah, I used to believe in abundant beliefs and

748
00:40:33,780 --> 00:40:34,320
Speaker 6: now I don't.

749
00:40:35,060 --> 00:40:36,180
Speaker 5: If you keep bringing it up, I'm just going to

750
00:40:36,219 --> 00:40:39,670
Speaker 5: keep not saying the things I said in 2020.

751
00:40:39,670 --> 00:40:40,910
Speaker 6: And that's frustrating.

752
00:40:41,450 --> 00:40:45,370
Speaker 5: If you think that people who advocated for replacing police

753
00:40:45,530 --> 00:40:48,799
Speaker 5: departments with social workers, et cetera, if you think they

754
00:40:48,820 --> 00:40:51,520
Speaker 5: should own that and hurt for that, that's not good

755
00:40:51,580 --> 00:40:54,919
Speaker 5: fun for you. But voters do say they have moved

756
00:40:55,040 --> 00:40:59,270
Speaker 5: on to an extent. I'm not saying that Republican tactics

757
00:40:59,450 --> 00:41:03,180
Speaker 5: will not work. It's just when they portray left-wing Democrats

758
00:41:03,260 --> 00:41:07,279
Speaker 5: as dangerous. It's a mix of stuff in the communism.

759
00:41:06,780 --> 00:41:07,640
Speaker 6: Bucket, I guess.

760
00:41:07,700 --> 00:41:08,020
Speaker 1: Right.

761
00:41:08,219 --> 00:41:10,299
Speaker 6: And it's as powerful as it was last time. Yeah.

762
00:41:10,640 --> 00:41:12,759
Speaker 1: And it's empty if crime is down. If crime is down,

763
00:41:12,820 --> 00:41:15,810
Speaker 1: you can't make a case that Democrats cause crime if

764
00:41:16,270 --> 00:41:19,230
Speaker 1: you've got a Democratic mayor. So and that and the

765
00:41:19,290 --> 00:41:23,790
Speaker 1: whole woke 1.0 being crazy is a way of trying

766
00:41:23,910 --> 00:41:27,029
Speaker 1: to do that, which I think actually works pretty well.

767
00:41:27,489 --> 00:41:30,060
Speaker 1: And that's what and you know, it works well because

768
00:41:30,080 --> 00:41:32,560
Speaker 1: AOC wouldn't take it if she didn't think it worked well.

769
00:41:32,640 --> 00:41:36,140
Speaker 1: And AOC is pretty anyone is has proven themselves to

770
00:41:36,180 --> 00:41:39,400
Speaker 1: be pretty canny. It's AOC. So I'd love you to

771
00:41:39,460 --> 00:41:42,200
Speaker 1: talk about what this has done is it's opened up

772
00:41:42,239 --> 00:41:45,750
Speaker 1: the map and the map is. It's and we know

773
00:41:45,870 --> 00:41:48,330
Speaker 1: it's an open map, not just from polls, but from

774
00:41:48,370 --> 00:41:53,920
Speaker 1: things like the Alaska primary results, which showed the Democrat

775
00:41:53,960 --> 00:41:57,660
Speaker 1: winning an open primary, which I thought was pretty incredible.

776
00:41:58,110 --> 00:42:01,310
Speaker 5: Yeah, that gets to what Trump's poll numbers actually mean, because.

777
00:42:01,969 --> 00:42:06,879
Speaker 5: In 2024, was running for re-election to the House. She

778
00:42:06,890 --> 00:42:08,640
Speaker 5: got the most, I think she got more than 50%

779
00:42:08,640 --> 00:42:11,720
Speaker 5: of the vote in the primary. And then she lost

780
00:42:11,780 --> 00:42:15,339
Speaker 5: re-election because voters showed up on election day.

781
00:42:15,380 --> 00:42:16,740
Speaker 6: More voters showed up on election day.

782
00:42:16,760 --> 00:42:17,200
Speaker 1: To vote for Trump.

783
00:42:17,280 --> 00:42:19,570
Speaker 6: And they went for Trump and they marked the ballot.

784
00:42:19,890 --> 00:42:22,110
Speaker 5: It's a top four system in Alaska, which we don't

785
00:42:22,130 --> 00:42:24,630
Speaker 5: need to get entirely into. But basically, the primary is

786
00:42:24,670 --> 00:42:27,110
Speaker 5: deciding which four candidates get into the November ballot.

787
00:42:27,530 --> 00:42:28,570
Speaker 6: And so she lost narrowly.

788
00:42:28,890 --> 00:42:31,410
Speaker 5: She's run against Sullivan, who, despite being a senator for

789
00:42:31,410 --> 00:42:35,020
Speaker 5: 12 years, does not have a strong identity. The way that, frankly,

790
00:42:35,060 --> 00:42:37,620
Speaker 5: her opponent last time, Begich, the Begich.

791
00:42:37,420 --> 00:42:38,200
Speaker 6: Family is legendary.

792
00:42:38,239 --> 00:42:40,500
Speaker 5: The Sullivan family, as we've seen, there are many people

793
00:42:40,520 --> 00:42:42,500
Speaker 5: named Sullivan who are not part of the same family

794
00:42:42,520 --> 00:42:42,920
Speaker 5: in Alaska.

795
00:42:42,940 --> 00:42:43,759
Speaker 6: Many, many, many.

796
00:42:43,780 --> 00:42:47,660
Speaker 5: Generally, generally, that's where you'd want to be because the

797
00:42:47,700 --> 00:42:51,640
Speaker 5: combined Democratic vote in the primary in Alaska was over

798
00:42:51,640 --> 00:42:52,049
Speaker 5: 50 percent.

799
00:42:52,570 --> 00:42:54,710
Speaker 6: In a state that has not gone Democratic. I mean,

800
00:42:54,730 --> 00:42:55,430
Speaker 6: it's gone Democratic.

801
00:42:55,450 --> 00:42:58,390
Speaker 5: Senate 2008 has not otherwise been voting for Democrats for

802
00:42:58,430 --> 00:43:04,310
Speaker 5: quite a while. And for governor, similar. People were pretty

803
00:43:04,390 --> 00:43:07,670
Speaker 5: open to voting for Democrats. Now, there's a lot of local...

804
00:43:07,910 --> 00:43:11,969
Speaker 5: Everything does get folded into a Trump story in.

805
00:43:11,200 --> 00:43:11,990
Speaker 6: The Senate race, but..

806
00:43:12,520 --> 00:43:14,180
Speaker 1: It's about food. It's about fish.

807
00:43:14,280 --> 00:43:15,140
Speaker 4: It's about, right.

808
00:43:15,160 --> 00:43:16,460
Speaker 1: So, but I want you to- There's a.

809
00:43:16,420 --> 00:43:18,900
Speaker 5: Lot going on there, but it's also, Alaska's had a

810
00:43:18,920 --> 00:43:22,420
Speaker 5: very conservative governor for eight years now who's being turned out.

811
00:43:22,640 --> 00:43:25,380
Speaker 5: And it's one of the states that is hurt the

812
00:43:25,400 --> 00:43:28,060
Speaker 5: most by a trade war with Canada. Now, there's less,

813
00:43:28,080 --> 00:43:30,759
Speaker 5: there's more trade between Ohio and Canada than there is

814
00:43:30,780 --> 00:43:34,090
Speaker 5: between Alaska and Canada, but they do, they are paying

815
00:43:34,120 --> 00:43:38,430
Speaker 5: attention to the, like most people in Alaska are not

816
00:43:38,489 --> 00:43:41,569
Speaker 5: crossing the border to Canada. They're going somewhere else. But

817
00:43:42,150 --> 00:43:44,130
Speaker 5: none of the issues of the last month have been

818
00:43:44,170 --> 00:43:46,990
Speaker 5: very good if you're a Republican running for reelection in Alaska.

819
00:43:47,410 --> 00:43:50,950
Speaker 1: Right. And there can be some brownback effect, right, where

820
00:43:50,969 --> 00:43:53,790
Speaker 1: you have a very conservative governor and people don't like it.

821
00:43:53,910 --> 00:43:56,770
Speaker 1: And then they decide to swing, which we saw in Kansas.

822
00:43:56,830 --> 00:44:00,850
Speaker 1: We've seen in any number of places. Now, you mentioned Ohio.

823
00:44:00,950 --> 00:44:03,310
Speaker 1: I want to get to Ohio because Ohio to me

824
00:44:03,410 --> 00:44:08,370
Speaker 1: is very interesting. And it is a very red state.

825
00:44:08,930 --> 00:44:13,930
Speaker 1: We are we're watching it. And it is it strikes

826
00:44:13,989 --> 00:44:17,319
Speaker 1: me that Sherrod is a lot like Pope in the

827
00:44:17,360 --> 00:44:20,680
Speaker 1: fact that he's very much a candidate for the state.

828
00:44:21,320 --> 00:44:25,000
Speaker 1: Known quantity was a senator. But I also think the

829
00:44:25,020 --> 00:44:30,400
Speaker 1: gubernatorial there is it's not helping the Republican. So talk

830
00:44:30,480 --> 00:44:33,140
Speaker 1: us through what's happening in Ohio. Also, the trade war.

831
00:44:33,739 --> 00:44:38,239
Speaker 5: Well, trade affecting Ohio, too, because you think of, you

832
00:44:38,460 --> 00:44:40,219
Speaker 5: don't think maybe that much of Toledo, but there are

833
00:44:40,239 --> 00:44:42,509
Speaker 5: a lot of businesses that depend on parts coming in

834
00:44:42,550 --> 00:44:45,230
Speaker 5: from Canada that are paying attention to what's happening. But

835
00:44:45,450 --> 00:44:50,170
Speaker 5: Brown was doing well before that, and having seen his

836
00:44:50,250 --> 00:44:54,009
Speaker 5: coalition fall apart in the last couple cycles for Democrats,

837
00:44:54,570 --> 00:44:56,299
Speaker 5: it's not clear how much he's put back together. Old

838
00:44:56,360 --> 00:45:00,920
Speaker 5: Democratic Coalition Ohio was very old, was Appalachia, Northeast Ohio,

839
00:45:00,940 --> 00:45:01,299
Speaker 5: and the.

840
00:45:04,239 --> 00:45:05,160
Speaker 6: The new coalition which.

841
00:45:05,100 --> 00:45:08,220
Speaker 5: Doesn't win is not Appalachia, not only is it Ohio,

842
00:45:08,540 --> 00:45:11,020
Speaker 5: the big cities and their suburbs. And that just gets

843
00:45:11,060 --> 00:45:15,160
Speaker 5: outvoted in Ohio by everything else. But Brown, he didn't

844
00:45:15,180 --> 00:45:18,620
Speaker 5: have a bad campaign in 2020. He really needed, in

845
00:45:18,660 --> 00:45:20,759
Speaker 5: order to lose the crypto industry, to spend tens of

846
00:45:20,780 --> 00:45:23,640
Speaker 5: millions of dollars against him. He has run a much

847
00:45:24,140 --> 00:45:27,400
Speaker 5: more aggressive campaign against a somewhat known quant. John Husted,

848
00:45:27,440 --> 00:45:30,500
Speaker 5: the senator who was appointed by Governor DeWine, who was

849
00:45:30,540 --> 00:45:33,100
Speaker 5: his lieutenant governor, just had won statewide elections for a

850
00:45:33,120 --> 00:45:36,690
Speaker 5: very long time. but is a fairly generic Republican. And

851
00:45:37,210 --> 00:45:40,150
Speaker 5: Brown is assigning him everything people don't like about Republicans.

852
00:45:40,190 --> 00:45:41,150
Speaker 6: The state's been voting.

853
00:45:40,950 --> 00:45:44,370
Speaker 5: Republican for a while now, but that you've got the

854
00:45:44,450 --> 00:45:47,120
Speaker 5: same dynamic playing out in the race for governor. Vivek

855
00:45:47,180 --> 00:45:50,800
Speaker 5: Ramaswamy is running to replace a Republican governor, replaced Republican

856
00:45:50,820 --> 00:45:52,680
Speaker 5: governor by promising to run on change.

857
00:45:53,000 --> 00:45:55,649
Speaker 6: That does run out eventually. Same thing happening in Iowa.

858
00:45:56,170 --> 00:45:59,630
Speaker 5: And brown has been very entrepreneurial and taking on issues

859
00:45:59,690 --> 00:46:02,549
Speaker 5: that were that are new and the he the the

860
00:46:02,770 --> 00:46:06,570
Speaker 5: nrsc's data center's memo last week which uh alexis had

861
00:46:06,750 --> 00:46:09,489
Speaker 5: next to us it it was pretty it was fun

862
00:46:09,510 --> 00:46:12,830
Speaker 5: to read that between the lines because the robinson committee

863
00:46:12,870 --> 00:46:15,430
Speaker 5: says the data center issue is hurting us ohio is

864
00:46:15,450 --> 00:46:18,290
Speaker 5: this great example what candidates need to do is align

865
00:46:18,310 --> 00:46:21,009
Speaker 5: themselves with the administration position which is keep building the

866
00:46:21,050 --> 00:46:24,160
Speaker 5: data centers but pledge to make them pay for their

867
00:46:24,180 --> 00:46:26,660
Speaker 5: own electricity. And there actually is much more of an

868
00:46:26,739 --> 00:46:31,180
Speaker 5: anti-data centers sentiment coming up, I think, for very basic

869
00:46:31,920 --> 00:46:33,940
Speaker 5: reasons that have been moving the electric for a while,

870
00:46:33,980 --> 00:46:36,390
Speaker 5: that people do not like the future that is coming

871
00:46:36,430 --> 00:46:37,950
Speaker 5: as much as the present they live in. They don't

872
00:46:37,989 --> 00:46:41,250
Speaker 5: like the idea of building... more gigantic buildings so that

873
00:46:41,290 --> 00:46:43,069
Speaker 5: their kids spend even more time on the phone, on

874
00:46:43,090 --> 00:46:46,290
Speaker 5: the iPad. And so Browns has rushed into that. Browns

875
00:46:46,330 --> 00:46:49,270
Speaker 5: run that and Republicans have to be more nuanced and

876
00:46:49,290 --> 00:46:51,779
Speaker 5: people don't love nuance in, I guess, a midterm election

877
00:46:51,820 --> 00:46:52,420
Speaker 5: or any election.

878
00:46:52,820 --> 00:46:55,940
Speaker 1: I mean, also, yeah, but the reason Republicans have to

879
00:46:55,980 --> 00:46:59,060
Speaker 1: be more nuanced on the data centers is not because

880
00:46:59,160 --> 00:47:03,340
Speaker 1: there's some moral imperative for data centers. It's because they

881
00:47:03,480 --> 00:47:06,970
Speaker 1: are being supported by the companies that build data centers. Right.

882
00:47:07,260 --> 00:47:10,549
Speaker 5: Yeah, and those companies have been, they've reshuffled their press

883
00:47:10,570 --> 00:47:11,530
Speaker 5: approach recently.

884
00:47:11,870 --> 00:47:13,910
Speaker 6: It's not just data centers. I guess Flock uses data

885
00:47:13,930 --> 00:47:15,950
Speaker 6: centers too, but Flock, the camera company.

886
00:47:16,190 --> 00:47:20,010
Speaker 5: Has started to do more PR. And it's very familiar

887
00:47:20,030 --> 00:47:22,180
Speaker 5: if you've ever seen industry that starts getting attacked.

888
00:47:22,260 --> 00:47:26,400
Speaker 6: It is, well, we heard your concerns. We're misunderstood.

889
00:47:26,460 --> 00:47:30,160
Speaker 5: We're actually going to help people transition. Meta did this

890
00:47:30,200 --> 00:47:32,399
Speaker 5: with a huge fund. Yeah, people don't like our data centers,

891
00:47:32,420 --> 00:47:33,939
Speaker 5: what we're doing, but we're going to pay all this money.

892
00:47:34,420 --> 00:47:37,890
Speaker 5: to the communities where we're building our AI infrastructure. And

893
00:47:38,410 --> 00:47:41,509
Speaker 5: that is the deal they're making with, I'd say, more

894
00:47:41,590 --> 00:47:43,650
Speaker 5: Republicans than Democrats.

895
00:47:44,350 --> 00:47:45,310
Speaker 6: But what has changed?

896
00:47:45,370 --> 00:47:47,669
Speaker 5: The reason there are so many tax breaks to build

897
00:47:47,690 --> 00:47:49,890
Speaker 5: data centers around the country is because for a long time,

898
00:47:50,550 --> 00:47:51,130
Speaker 5: It was a race.

899
00:47:51,250 --> 00:47:53,850
Speaker 6: You're governor of any state. You want new business come in.

900
00:47:53,860 --> 00:47:55,180
Speaker 6: It's a race. We want to make sure they build

901
00:47:55,200 --> 00:47:57,680
Speaker 6: them in Texas, not in Wisconsin. We want to make

902
00:47:57,700 --> 00:48:01,160
Speaker 6: sure they build them in Ohio, not Michigan. That has flipped.

903
00:48:01,400 --> 00:48:05,660
Speaker 5: And so it's cracked through the parties, but Republicans have

904
00:48:05,710 --> 00:48:09,110
Speaker 5: to run on the Trump policy, basically. The Trump policy is, oh,

905
00:48:09,190 --> 00:48:11,529
Speaker 5: people seem angry at this, but we should still build

906
00:48:11,570 --> 00:48:12,090
Speaker 5: them anyway.

907
00:48:12,110 --> 00:48:12,330
Speaker 4: Right.

908
00:48:12,710 --> 00:48:16,610
Speaker 5: They're not comfortable running on the moratorium. There's been some Republican,

909
00:48:16,820 --> 00:48:20,520
Speaker 5: I think, flop sweat leading to them, people like Mike

910
00:48:20,560 --> 00:48:23,880
Speaker 5: Rogers calling for moratoriums, not the position. But they're supposed

911
00:48:23,920 --> 00:48:26,259
Speaker 5: to be, well, this is the future. We just want

912
00:48:26,280 --> 00:48:27,760
Speaker 5: to make sure people benefit from it.

913
00:48:27,770 --> 00:48:28,790
Speaker 6: They're not really ready.

914
00:48:28,810 --> 00:48:31,790
Speaker 5: Yeah, we need to beat China, which is, I've noticed

915
00:48:31,850 --> 00:48:34,750
Speaker 5: in campaigns that- It's pretty vague. The ads about how

916
00:48:34,770 --> 00:48:37,030
Speaker 5: we need to stop China are not about data centers.

917
00:48:37,050 --> 00:48:39,419
Speaker 6: They're about China buying farmland and things like that.

918
00:48:39,440 --> 00:48:42,420
Speaker 5: The people have learned and the industry has learned, the

919
00:48:42,440 --> 00:48:46,060
Speaker 5: administration has learned. This is so unpopular so suddenly. I've

920
00:48:46,080 --> 00:48:48,480
Speaker 5: been writing about it since, I guess, October, but pretty

921
00:48:48,520 --> 00:48:51,300
Speaker 5: sudden change. I was not saying last October when I

922
00:48:51,340 --> 00:48:53,080
Speaker 5: wrote about this in Virginia, oh, and this.

923
00:48:53,040 --> 00:48:54,480
Speaker 6: Will be a defining issue.

924
00:48:54,520 --> 00:48:56,060
Speaker 5: It's a rising issue.

925
00:48:56,200 --> 00:48:59,969
Speaker 1: It came out of nowhere. But I want... I think

926
00:49:00,239 --> 00:49:04,089
Speaker 1: the data centers are interesting because they show like the

927
00:49:04,170 --> 00:49:08,690
Speaker 1: larger problem for Republicans with Trump, which is a normal

928
00:49:08,770 --> 00:49:13,030
Speaker 1: president would allow you to run against them. Remember, Biden

929
00:49:13,090 --> 00:49:14,989
Speaker 1: said you can do what you want. You can run

930
00:49:15,050 --> 00:49:18,009
Speaker 1: against me in the midterms. I'm not that popular. Go

931
00:49:18,050 --> 00:49:19,950
Speaker 1: for it. Or at least that was the word we used.

932
00:49:20,239 --> 00:49:25,160
Speaker 1: we was sort of transmitted with Trump. You even if

933
00:49:25,219 --> 00:49:27,950
Speaker 1: Trump gave you permission to do that, which he would

934
00:49:27,969 --> 00:49:32,120
Speaker 1: never do that, you can't run against Trump. Because, A,

935
00:49:32,890 --> 00:49:37,330
Speaker 1: it will piss off MAGA, and B, we have recently

936
00:49:37,450 --> 00:49:40,359
Speaker 1: seen that Trump, it will piss off Trump. I mean,

937
00:49:40,400 --> 00:49:44,380
Speaker 1: Trump got rid of John Cornyn pretty recently because of

938
00:49:44,420 --> 00:49:47,450
Speaker 1: something John Cornyn did six years ago.

939
00:49:48,070 --> 00:49:50,810
Speaker 5: Uh, yeah, I think the corner or eight years ago reasons,

940
00:49:50,890 --> 00:49:53,850
Speaker 5: but the, it was specifically right.

941
00:49:53,870 --> 00:49:56,910
Speaker 6: Well, the, no, he didn't vote to convict Trump, but.

942
00:49:56,830 --> 00:49:59,550
Speaker 5: He, he said that Trump should not run again in

943
00:49:59,550 --> 00:50:04,560
Speaker 5: 2022 and do that. So the, the, the theory behind

944
00:50:04,600 --> 00:50:08,339
Speaker 5: that is that, cause we mentioned Trump's numbers were lower, uh, than,

945
00:50:08,520 --> 00:50:10,439
Speaker 5: than they have been at any point he's been running

946
00:50:10,460 --> 00:50:12,629
Speaker 5: when the party's been running a midterm, the mid, the

947
00:50:12,670 --> 00:50:15,910
Speaker 5: economic numbers are lower, et cetera. But Everyone knows there

948
00:50:15,930 --> 00:50:17,509
Speaker 5: are a lot of people who voted for Trump. I

949
00:50:17,530 --> 00:50:19,669
Speaker 5: think in Ohio, it was 3.2 million people voted for Trump.

950
00:50:19,710 --> 00:50:22,570
Speaker 5: That's more than voted for Bernie Moreno, be it Sherrod Brown.

951
00:50:22,590 --> 00:50:25,400
Speaker 5: That's just, if you get 85% of those people to

952
00:50:25,440 --> 00:50:27,239
Speaker 5: come out in the midterm, that would be unprecedented and

953
00:50:27,260 --> 00:50:30,960
Speaker 5: you'd win. And a lot of the success, the mitigation

954
00:50:31,000 --> 00:50:35,089
Speaker 5: of the Republicans democratic waves has been just turning out

955
00:50:35,130 --> 00:50:35,810
Speaker 5: more Trump voters.

956
00:50:36,010 --> 00:50:37,370
Speaker 6: In 2018, they do this.

957
00:50:37,430 --> 00:50:40,549
Speaker 5: Everybody takes credit for doing this, but in 2018, they're

958
00:50:40,570 --> 00:50:45,440
Speaker 5: not doing that well until October 2018. And Josh Hawley

959
00:50:45,480 --> 00:50:48,279
Speaker 5: and Mike Brown, et cetera, will tell you that, oh, well,

960
00:50:48,500 --> 00:50:51,380
Speaker 5: really capitalizing on the Kavanaugh backlash of how Republicans were

961
00:50:51,480 --> 00:50:54,640
Speaker 5: angry that they were smearing Kavanaugh, that angered the Trump voters.

962
00:50:54,680 --> 00:50:57,080
Speaker 5: There's always something, you need to find something. And it's

963
00:50:57,120 --> 00:50:59,839
Speaker 5: never turning out Trump voters because they're so happy they

964
00:50:59,890 --> 00:51:02,310
Speaker 5: voted for you. It's something else to be angry about.

965
00:51:02,969 --> 00:51:06,530
Speaker 5: And that is the strategy of not, if you distance

966
00:51:06,550 --> 00:51:09,069
Speaker 5: yourself from Trump, what happens to those voters?

967
00:51:09,350 --> 00:51:10,730
Speaker 6: You don't have an entree to that.

968
00:51:10,770 --> 00:51:12,469
Speaker 5: You can't go to those voters and say, yes, you

969
00:51:12,510 --> 00:51:15,279
Speaker 5: voted for him three times and you should come back

970
00:51:15,320 --> 00:51:17,580
Speaker 5: in the midterm, even though you don't usually, or you

971
00:51:17,600 --> 00:51:19,279
Speaker 5: voted for him last time. You should come back for him.

972
00:51:19,600 --> 00:51:22,350
Speaker 5: You're allowed to disagree with him a little bit on, well, no,

973
00:51:22,360 --> 00:51:23,620
Speaker 5: you're not really. Cause I was going to say some

974
00:51:23,640 --> 00:51:26,550
Speaker 5: people bring them on the Epstein file. That's not, that's,

975
00:51:26,570 --> 00:51:27,470
Speaker 5: that's ground upon too.

976
00:51:27,489 --> 00:51:30,230
Speaker 1: Right. Marjorie Taylor Greene. I mean, that's the I feel

977
00:51:30,250 --> 00:51:33,569
Speaker 1: like the bigger problem Republicans have here is, and again,

978
00:51:33,670 --> 00:51:36,549
Speaker 1: Jesse and I have been having this endless argument, which

979
00:51:36,670 --> 00:51:40,440
Speaker 1: is like, is it better to try and turn out

980
00:51:40,640 --> 00:51:44,460
Speaker 1: voters who are excited by progressive values or to try

981
00:51:44,500 --> 00:51:45,540
Speaker 1: to appeal to the middle?

982
00:51:46,080 --> 00:51:46,340
Speaker 4: Right.

983
00:51:46,400 --> 00:51:49,720
Speaker 1: The people who are disaffected Republicans. Now, here's the problem

984
00:51:49,739 --> 00:51:54,310
Speaker 1: with these Republicans, these MAGA Republicans. They they can't appeal

985
00:51:54,710 --> 00:51:58,730
Speaker 1: to Republicans who are disaffected with Trump because Trump will

986
00:51:58,770 --> 00:52:01,739
Speaker 1: be furious and MAGA will be furious. And remember, the

987
00:52:01,780 --> 00:52:06,580
Speaker 1: central tenant of MAGA is Trump. adoring Trump. So, ultimately,

988
00:52:06,600 --> 00:52:10,960
Speaker 1: if you're a Mike Rogers and you want to run

989
00:52:11,480 --> 00:52:20,640
Speaker 1: as the centrist candidate who can attract disaffected Democrats— or I

990
00:52:20,660 --> 00:52:25,710
Speaker 1: would argue that it's Democrats who have anti-Muslim racism, but okay,

991
00:52:25,770 --> 00:52:28,990
Speaker 1: let's just say they are more centrist Democrats. You can't

992
00:52:29,030 --> 00:52:32,170
Speaker 1: appeal to those people because you're a whole, you have

993
00:52:32,210 --> 00:52:35,290
Speaker 1: to hold Trump very close. Yes.

994
00:52:36,210 --> 00:52:38,549
Speaker 5: Now, what I was saying at the end of the

995
00:52:39,510 --> 00:52:41,040
Speaker 5: long point I was making, the too long point I

996
00:52:41,080 --> 00:52:43,219
Speaker 5: was making, no, no, no, no, I was going to

997
00:52:43,239 --> 00:52:43,640
Speaker 5: get the point.

998
00:52:44,060 --> 00:52:45,300
Speaker 6: Who are these voters?

999
00:52:45,320 --> 00:52:48,319
Speaker 5: There are the most likely people who vote in every

1000
00:52:48,340 --> 00:52:49,779
Speaker 5: American term, don't need to worry about them, they'll come

1001
00:52:49,820 --> 00:52:51,900
Speaker 5: out and vote Republican, very few of them are appealing.

1002
00:52:52,280 --> 00:52:54,910
Speaker 5: There's people who vote in presidentials, but not midterms. OK,

1003
00:52:54,950 --> 00:52:57,890
Speaker 5: most of them. Then there are the people who voted

1004
00:52:57,930 --> 00:53:01,430
Speaker 5: for Trump. They're the unlikely voters who took one chance

1005
00:53:01,469 --> 00:53:04,490
Speaker 5: and voted for Trump in 2024. And they're pretty gone.

1006
00:53:05,130 --> 00:53:07,610
Speaker 5: They are the people who were most angry that the

1007
00:53:07,650 --> 00:53:09,630
Speaker 5: economy did not bounce back in the way they wanted.

1008
00:53:09,650 --> 00:53:12,239
Speaker 5: They're the ones that are susceptible to the why is

1009
00:53:12,280 --> 00:53:15,320
Speaker 5: he enriching himself and rebuilding the ballroom message, the Epstein story.

1010
00:53:15,360 --> 00:53:17,120
Speaker 6: There are a lot of them are pretty gone.

1011
00:53:18,140 --> 00:53:23,310
Speaker 1: Are poor or are pretty unstable financially. And that's why

1012
00:53:23,350 --> 00:53:25,610
Speaker 1: they voted for Trump, right? Yes.

1013
00:53:25,790 --> 00:53:28,399
Speaker 5: And so that is where I think the Republican messaging

1014
00:53:28,800 --> 00:53:31,100
Speaker 5: about how far left the Democratic Party is. It's meant

1015
00:53:31,140 --> 00:53:34,170
Speaker 5: to wake up. the second group I talked about, those people,

1016
00:53:34,290 --> 00:53:37,009
Speaker 5: less so. They're hard to turn out because they were

1017
00:53:37,030 --> 00:53:39,239
Speaker 5: always hard to turn out. Trump just got them one

1018
00:53:39,280 --> 00:53:43,300
Speaker 5: time in 2024. Democrats this time really are, this is, again,

1019
00:53:43,440 --> 00:53:45,620
Speaker 5: the math of every midterm. If they turn out 90%

1020
00:53:45,620 --> 00:53:49,300
Speaker 5: of people who voted for Kamala Harris anywhere, they'll basically win.

1021
00:53:49,580 --> 00:53:52,940
Speaker 5: So they're trying to keep that, that rickety coalition together,

1022
00:53:53,040 --> 00:53:55,810
Speaker 5: that's not enough to win the supermajority in the Senate.

1023
00:53:56,210 --> 00:53:58,770
Speaker 5: They're having an easier time finding those people. They have

1024
00:53:58,790 --> 00:54:01,690
Speaker 5: been all year. The Democrats will continue to vote in

1025
00:54:01,750 --> 00:54:04,910
Speaker 5: every election, no matter how annoyed they are with the party.

1026
00:54:05,350 --> 00:54:09,200
Speaker 5: And so the goal is really just getting Democrats holding

1027
00:54:09,239 --> 00:54:11,680
Speaker 5: as many of those voters as possible and Republicans getting

1028
00:54:11,760 --> 00:54:14,620
Speaker 5: to those vote in presidential, but not every election, people

1029
00:54:14,680 --> 00:54:17,880
Speaker 5: saying this is the we all laugh at it, I think,

1030
00:54:17,900 --> 00:54:21,690
Speaker 5: but it's necessary, it seems, for every election. leaders to say, well,

1031
00:54:21,710 --> 00:54:23,770
Speaker 5: this is the most important election of our lifetime. The

1032
00:54:23,810 --> 00:54:26,790
Speaker 5: message is we are going to become a communist country

1033
00:54:26,969 --> 00:54:30,509
Speaker 5: if Trump does not control the House and Senate. I

1034
00:54:30,570 --> 00:54:34,500
Speaker 5: do think that is significant because the message was months ago,

1035
00:54:34,520 --> 00:54:37,400
Speaker 5: and this still comes up, but you hear it less. Oh,

1036
00:54:37,580 --> 00:54:39,580
Speaker 5: if Democrats win the Congress, all they're going to do

1037
00:54:39,640 --> 00:54:42,340
Speaker 5: is impeach the president. You hear that less than they're

1038
00:54:42,400 --> 00:54:44,120
Speaker 5: going to turn this into a communist country. And that's

1039
00:54:44,140 --> 00:54:47,029
Speaker 5: a reaction that to mostly the Michigan primary and the

1040
00:54:47,050 --> 00:54:47,650
Speaker 5: New York primary.

1041
00:54:47,670 --> 00:54:49,310
Speaker 6: It's a reaction to who's been winning these primaries.

1042
00:54:49,930 --> 00:54:54,210
Speaker 5: I think I read between the lines that it's not

1043
00:54:54,230 --> 00:54:57,029
Speaker 5: very interesting to people to say that Democrats will impeach Trump.

1044
00:54:57,090 --> 00:54:58,390
Speaker 6: He's been impeached twice. Who cares?

1045
00:54:58,450 --> 00:55:02,069
Speaker 1: Yeah. So I. we're out of time, but I just

1046
00:55:02,130 --> 00:55:04,580
Speaker 1: want you to, I have one last thing I want

1047
00:55:04,600 --> 00:55:08,040
Speaker 1: to ask you about, which is we saw Republicans loved

1048
00:55:08,100 --> 00:55:11,259
Speaker 1: this idea of a caravan. Remember they would, Fox news

1049
00:55:11,300 --> 00:55:15,020
Speaker 1: would spot a caravan right before the midterms and watch them.

1050
00:55:15,219 --> 00:55:16,900
Speaker 1: Is that just not going to be a thing anymore?

1051
00:55:16,920 --> 00:55:17,840
Speaker 1: Or you think that's coming?

1052
00:55:18,380 --> 00:55:19,280
Speaker 6: No, that's not coming.

1053
00:55:19,340 --> 00:55:21,430
Speaker 5: What it is instead of the state is the state

1054
00:55:21,450 --> 00:55:24,509
Speaker 5: of America act. And so again, I, I, I was

1055
00:55:24,550 --> 00:55:28,430
Speaker 5: saying that the goal is scaring people into voting because

1056
00:55:28,469 --> 00:55:32,120
Speaker 5: they can't let Democrats take over. The idea that Democrats

1057
00:55:32,180 --> 00:55:35,360
Speaker 5: are going to allow illegal voters to pollute the rolls,

1058
00:55:35,900 --> 00:55:37,890
Speaker 5: that is that's what has replaced it.

1059
00:55:38,010 --> 00:55:41,390
Speaker 6: I don't I my opinion now don't don't think that's

1060
00:55:41,590 --> 00:55:42,170
Speaker 6: as effective.

1061
00:55:42,870 --> 00:55:45,930
Speaker 5: You saw Republicans really get exercised about New Jersey admitting

1062
00:55:45,969 --> 00:55:50,170
Speaker 5: that their system had stupidly just gotten voter enrollment backwards

1063
00:55:50,270 --> 00:55:53,160
Speaker 5: and let a bunch of noncitizens register as voters. This

1064
00:55:53,260 --> 00:55:56,520
Speaker 5: is what Republicans have right here. It's a very unpopular issue.

1065
00:55:56,540 --> 00:55:58,600
Speaker 5: I've written about it several times because there are cities,

1066
00:55:59,160 --> 00:56:03,180
Speaker 5: including D.C., that enfranchise noncitizens to vote in legal elections.

1067
00:56:03,400 --> 00:56:03,860
Speaker 2: Stupid.

1068
00:56:04,620 --> 00:56:05,919
Speaker 6: The idea that, you know, that's the thing.

1069
00:56:06,940 --> 00:56:08,700
Speaker 5: This is a thing that most people agree with when

1070
00:56:08,719 --> 00:56:10,900
Speaker 5: they're running anywhere.

1071
00:56:10,219 --> 00:56:11,120
Speaker 6: But a very blue city.

1072
00:56:11,560 --> 00:56:14,719
Speaker 5: A lot of Republican campaigning is just don't let them

1073
00:56:14,780 --> 00:56:18,570
Speaker 5: turn the place you live into California or L.A. And

1074
00:56:18,610 --> 00:56:20,109
Speaker 5: this is one of those things. Don't let them turn

1075
00:56:20,130 --> 00:56:23,590
Speaker 5: into D.C. where non-citizens can vote. Is that as compelling

1076
00:56:23,850 --> 00:56:26,790
Speaker 5: as migrants who might kill you are coming across the border?

1077
00:56:26,810 --> 00:56:29,990
Speaker 6: It's not. And this is the problem that every party has.

1078
00:56:30,070 --> 00:56:33,870
Speaker 5: If you succeed at something, as Republicans have, at effectively

1079
00:56:33,910 --> 00:56:37,500
Speaker 5: closing the border, where does the voter motivation.

1080
00:56:37,060 --> 00:56:38,200
Speaker 6: Come from to keep it going?

1081
00:56:38,340 --> 00:56:42,080
Speaker 5: I think it'll be more relevant in 2028 when Democrats

1082
00:56:42,100 --> 00:56:43,899
Speaker 5: will need to convince people the border just doesn't fly

1083
00:56:43,980 --> 00:56:47,070
Speaker 5: open whenever they win. In this midterm, they're not coming.

1084
00:56:47,290 --> 00:56:49,450
Speaker 5: They're not the B-roll. If you look at it, because

1085
00:56:49,489 --> 00:56:52,350
Speaker 5: I'm maybe the last person who just tries to chase

1086
00:56:52,370 --> 00:56:55,089
Speaker 5: down every piece of every sourcing or video and ad

1087
00:56:55,110 --> 00:56:58,379
Speaker 5: ads are still using B-roll of people trying to cross

1088
00:56:58,400 --> 00:57:01,020
Speaker 5: the border wall from four years ago. It's not happening now.

1089
00:57:01,060 --> 00:57:03,339
Speaker 5: It's going to be. But if Democrats get in, they're

1090
00:57:03,360 --> 00:57:07,000
Speaker 5: going to blow up our systems and let illegal aliens

1091
00:57:07,120 --> 00:57:09,120
Speaker 5: rig the elections. That's what's going to be instead. And

1092
00:57:09,160 --> 00:57:11,640
Speaker 5: it's just not as compelling as the imagery people crossing

1093
00:57:11,660 --> 00:57:14,109
Speaker 5: the border. I mean, you could make, I guess, with AI,

1094
00:57:14,150 --> 00:57:16,470
Speaker 5: you can make scary illegal immigrants going to polling booths.

1095
00:57:16,910 --> 00:57:21,270
Speaker 5: and scaring less scary AI people. But I haven't seen

1096
00:57:21,290 --> 00:57:21,820
Speaker 5: that done yet.

1097
00:57:22,260 --> 00:57:26,700
Speaker 1: Jesus. Dave Weibel, really appreciate you. Really great to have

1098
00:57:26,740 --> 00:57:27,900
Speaker 1: you on. Thank you.

1099
00:57:28,540 --> 00:57:30,180
Speaker 6: Yeah, great to be on. Thank you.

1100
00:57:32,120 --> 00:57:34,800
Speaker 4: And now your moment of suffering.

1101
00:57:34,960 --> 00:57:36,040
Speaker 1: Jesse Cannon.

1102
00:57:36,500 --> 00:57:40,780
Speaker 2: Project Fast, you know, many times on this podcast, you

1103
00:57:40,800 --> 00:57:43,310
Speaker 2: start to read a headline and you go, it's amazing

1104
00:57:43,350 --> 00:57:46,070
Speaker 2: we didn't already discuss this because it was so obvious

1105
00:57:46,110 --> 00:57:48,990
Speaker 2: this was going to happen. The EPA is now looking

1106
00:57:49,050 --> 00:57:53,330
Speaker 2: into ways that they can allow data centers to just

1107
00:57:53,410 --> 00:57:56,660
Speaker 2: pollute and not have any measurements or reporting about it.

1108
00:57:57,560 --> 00:58:00,820
Speaker 1: So you'll remember that the EPA is being headed by

1109
00:58:00,920 --> 00:58:04,180
Speaker 1: Lee Zeldin. So basically, they're just doing nothing. They're giving

1110
00:58:04,240 --> 00:58:08,580
Speaker 1: people permission to kill wild horses. They're giving permission to

1111
00:58:08,800 --> 00:58:14,090
Speaker 1: dump forever chemicals. They're doing every fucking thing you worried

1112
00:58:14,120 --> 00:58:18,050
Speaker 1: about they're doing, if not worse. So it should be

1113
00:58:18,190 --> 00:58:23,170
Speaker 1: no surprise that they are allowing data centers to do

1114
00:58:23,210 --> 00:58:26,350
Speaker 1: whatever they want. And you'll remember that Elon has said

1115
00:58:26,870 --> 00:58:31,800
Speaker 1: data centers too that are running on he has a

1116
00:58:31,900 --> 00:58:41,360
Speaker 1: data center in Ohio that is running on on these

1117
00:58:41,500 --> 00:58:46,390
Speaker 1: gas turbines that you put the turbine on wheels and

1118
00:58:46,450 --> 00:58:49,790
Speaker 1: then it's portable and it doesn't need to be regulated

1119
00:58:49,810 --> 00:58:54,860
Speaker 1: the same way as one that's permanent. I mean, this

1120
00:58:54,940 --> 00:59:00,100
Speaker 1: is just an environmental disaster, as is the whole Trump administration.

1121
00:59:00,120 --> 00:59:04,160
Speaker 1: So Very unsurprising, you know, and also they're doing this

1122
00:59:04,180 --> 00:59:08,730
Speaker 1: thing where they're changing the rules. So the Clean Air

1123
00:59:09,010 --> 00:59:13,780
Speaker 1: Act requires. that data centers publicly disclose their air pollution.

1124
00:59:14,260 --> 00:59:19,400
Speaker 1: Making the disclosures voluntary is what this Environmental Protection Agency

1125
00:59:19,480 --> 00:59:23,700
Speaker 1: rule will do. What do you think happens when the

1126
00:59:23,760 --> 00:59:26,520
Speaker 1: changes are voluntary, Jesse? Yeah.

1127
00:59:28,130 --> 00:59:30,250
Speaker 2: I think exactly what we've seen with a lot of

1128
00:59:30,290 --> 00:59:34,630
Speaker 2: this regulatory bullshit is that people end up getting hurt,

1129
00:59:34,790 --> 00:59:37,530
Speaker 2: and these companies do this, and then they get sued

1130
00:59:37,550 --> 00:59:43,470
Speaker 2: for damages afterwards. And then they've decided that they're not

1131
00:59:43,490 --> 00:59:46,240
Speaker 2: going to put costs before caution anymore, and this is

1132
00:59:46,260 --> 00:59:46,800
Speaker 2: where we get it.

1133
00:59:47,430 --> 00:59:51,840
Speaker 1: That's it for this episode of Fast Politics. Tune in

1134
00:59:52,200 --> 00:59:57,560
Speaker 1: every Monday, Wednesday, Thursday, and Saturday to hear the best

1135
00:59:57,620 --> 01:00:01,960
Speaker 1: minds in politics make sense of all this chaos. If

1136
01:00:01,980 --> 01:00:05,060
Speaker 1: you enjoy this podcast, please send it to a friend

1137
01:00:05,560 --> 01:00:08,700
Speaker 1: and keep the conversation going. Thanks for listening.