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Speaker 1: The cheerleaders at a gym in Buffalo have been recording

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Speaker 1: He just walked around shot all the black people. The

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Speaker 1: cheer squad, most of whom are black, had to figure

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Speaker 1: out how to go on and how to compete. I

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Speaker 1: wanted to win for them more than anything this season.

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Speaker 1: Listen to the embedded podcast from NPR within the iHeartRadio app,

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Speaker 1: I'm hosting a podcast called The Girlfriends. It's Las Vegas,

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Speaker 1: it's the nineteen nineties, and it is time to find

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Speaker 1: Baron bat On paper he was perfect, but in reality,

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Speaker 1: this guy's a wacko. He shouted to the point went unconscious.

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Speaker 1: I would call him and I would say, I know

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Speaker 1: I got balls bigger than any man. Dan Rather used

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Speaker 1: to call me his secret weapon. Listen to Journalist to

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Speaker 1: PGE dot com. Welcome to the Piked and Massacre, a

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Speaker 1: production of Katie Studios and iHeartRadio. This special episode will

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Speaker 1: recap our previous seasons to get you up to date

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Speaker 1: on the case and mark your calendars because Season three

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Speaker 1: premiers May twenty fifth. Multiple people found dead in more

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Speaker 1: than one location along Union Hill Road in piked In

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Speaker 1: this morning. My two PM investigators say they found eight

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Speaker 1: people dead, seven adult victims and a sixteen year old boy,

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Speaker 1: all from the Rodent family. Just a nightmare scenario, all

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Speaker 1: of them shot in the head, execution style. They were

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Speaker 1: trying to possibly wipe out this entire family. It's absolutely shocking.

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Speaker 1: I hope that the afortune in this area apprehend eaching everyone.

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Speaker 1: These are peoples, these are monsters. This has been by

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Speaker 1: far the long US most complex and labor intensive investigation

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Speaker 1: the Ohio Attorney General's Office has ever undertaken. Go down

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Speaker 1: your knee, mind your back, Mind your back. Yesterday, a

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Speaker 1: Pike County grand jury and died four individuals for aggravated

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Speaker 1: murder with death penalty specifications for allegedly committing this heartless,

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Speaker 1: ruthless murder. One family targeted, murdered in their sleep, and

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Speaker 1: the killers vanished. It's personal. Somebody was trying to send

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Speaker 1: a message. Everyone was talking about who could have done

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Speaker 1: it and why they would have done it. I want

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Speaker 1: to know exactly what happened that night. Thirty two gunshot wounds,

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Speaker 1: eight people dead, two families destroyed, one grizzly crime. What

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Speaker 1: will happen is any guests? This is the Piked and

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Speaker 1: Massacre Seasons one and two recap How we got here.

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Speaker 1: I'm Courtney Armstrong, a television producer at Katie Studios with

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Speaker 1: Stephanie Leidecker and Jeff Shane. Our journey started back in

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Speaker 1: twenty nineteen when we made a documentary about the crime,

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Speaker 1: and we've been covering the story ever since. I think

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Speaker 1: I speak for all of us. Would I say that

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Speaker 1: from then until now we have not been able to

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Speaker 1: shake it or get it out of our heads. I

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Speaker 1: think for me personally, the part of this case that

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Speaker 1: continues to haunt me is the fact that there were

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Speaker 1: mothers brutally murdered in front of their babies. What kind

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Speaker 1: of a monster would do that. We've had the benefit

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Speaker 1: of going to Pike County many times and have interviewed

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Speaker 1: to date probably hundreds of people, whether that's local townspeople

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Speaker 1: or experts, or family members to the victims and family

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Speaker 1: members of the accused. And one thing we can say

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Speaker 1: a small town like this, there's not a single person

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Speaker 1: that hasn't been affected by this hideous story, and there's

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Speaker 1: not a single person you can talk to on the

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Speaker 1: street that doesn't know somebody connected to it in a

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Speaker 1: meaningful way. Through all these conversations, we began to piece

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Speaker 1: together what happened on that fateful night. As you'll learn

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Speaker 1: in the upcoming season three, there is still so much

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Speaker 1: left to unravel in the community. Here's piked a native barb.

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Speaker 1: Piked In's considered a village, and it is just a

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Speaker 1: small little town that has a grocery store and a

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Speaker 1: pizza shop and gas stations, and there's a tire shop.

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Speaker 1: People sit and talk to the gas station. Wherever they go.

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Speaker 1: People know each other and they just sit and talk.

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Speaker 1: You know, at the tire shop you're waiting for an

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Speaker 1: oil and oil change or whatever. You sit there and

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Speaker 1: chat with your neighbor or whoever happens to come in.

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Speaker 1: You know somebody anywhere you go. But at some point,

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Speaker 1: out in the shadow of its green hill, the area

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Speaker 1: has an erie passed. Everybody thinks all the bad stuff

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Speaker 1: happens in the big cities, but the devil works at

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Speaker 1: it everywhere. Pike County is beautiful. It's a beautiful place,

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Speaker 1: but there's a lot of dirty people here too. For

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Speaker 1: the side of our town. There's been a lot of

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Speaker 1: murders here that have not been solved. On April twenty first,

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Speaker 1: twenty sixteen, evil reared its face in Pike County in

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Speaker 1: the dead of night under cool, cloudy skies. Eight people

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Speaker 1: were brutally shot and killed in four separate homes. I'll

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Speaker 1: never forget that day. I'll never forget that day. I

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Speaker 1: had gone into the office at the high school to

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Speaker 1: pick Brittany up for an appointment, and when I walked in,

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Speaker 1: they had a TV on and everyone in there was

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Speaker 1: sitting with their mouths hanging open, and I was like,

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Speaker 1: what's going on in here? And the secretaries said, my god,

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Speaker 1: there's been a shooting. They said six people were killed,

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Speaker 1: and she said, we are very worried because little Chris

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Speaker 1: Roden didn't show up today and we think he might

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Speaker 1: be one of them. Everyone was just in shock. So

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Speaker 1: little Chris law enforcement because they couldn't find him. There

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Speaker 1: was some speculation early on that he might have been involved.

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Speaker 1: For the residence of Pikedon. There was little more than

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Speaker 1: confusion at this point. People knew there was a shooting

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Speaker 1: and that Chris Roden Jr. A sixteen year old freshman

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Speaker 1: at Pikedon High was missing. Where was the team? It

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Speaker 1: was at the home of Chris Roden Senior that the

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Speaker 1: nightmare began. Chris Roden Senior was known to be a strong,

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Speaker 1: hard working family man. He was, you know, a great father.

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Speaker 1: He was a good man, just like the rest of

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Speaker 1: the guys you know in that family. He would do

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Speaker 1: anything for anybody. Chris sen Dana Rodin were married for

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Speaker 1: twenty two years, and although they divorced, they remained close,

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Speaker 1: so close that Chris Senior had recently bought Dana a

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Speaker 1: home on the same road he lived on Union Hill Road.

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Speaker 1: He did it so they could stay close to their children.

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Speaker 1: Chris Senior's cousin, Gary Rodin, was more like a brother

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Speaker 1: to him and often stayed at his place. Little Chris's aunt,

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Speaker 1: Bobby Joe, who also lived nearby, was the first to

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Speaker 1: make the gruesome discovery. At seven forty nine am when

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Speaker 1: she came to feed the dogs. The patriarch of the family,

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Speaker 1: Rodin was dead. He looked like he'd been beaten to death.

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Speaker 1: Chris's cousin, Gary Rodin, who was staying with Chris, was

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Speaker 1: also dead. Yeah, what's her saying? Chris Werenting, Harry right

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Speaker 1: than Frank and Gary Roden? First times it look like

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Speaker 1: the dead dead, I think the great and the I

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Speaker 1: phone has been to talk out of Okay, there anybody

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Speaker 1: else in the house. I don't know us. Okay, the

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Speaker 1: door was awfull. We got here, but I hope I

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Speaker 1: didn't hit her. Letting on the floor, Bobby and need

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Speaker 1: to get out of the house and way done, okayen stime,

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Speaker 1: right now, Okay, just watch this. Thoe year old Christopher

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Speaker 1: Roden was the only one of the eight family members

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Speaker 1: who was shot somewhere other than the head, and he

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Speaker 1: had multiple gunshot wounds to the head. Torso and Extremities

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Speaker 1: Coroner Distinguished Professor and criminal forensic expert Joseph Morgan tried

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Speaker 1: to make sense of the Roden murders, starting with father

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Speaker 1: and family patriarch, Chris Senior. Some of this will be

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Speaker 1: hard to hear, particularly if you're personally connected to the tragedy,

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Speaker 1: but it's important to understand the magnitude of what happened

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Speaker 1: that night. He was shot nine times. Now, for me,

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Speaker 1: as a forensic investigator, I would look at that and

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Speaker 1: I would deem that as overkill, and you know, why

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Speaker 1: would somebody need to be shot nine times? They're saying

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Speaker 1: that there's evidence that he attempted or reacted at least

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Speaker 1: to the point where he raised his arm his right

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Speaker 1: form and it shattered one of the bones. When you've

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Speaker 1: got an individual that has gotten defensive loans, that person

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Speaker 1: has an awareness, so that goes to a level of

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Speaker 1: callousness that that's roses to victim. Gary D Chris Your's cousin,

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Speaker 1: was a beloved member of the family. By all accounts,

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Speaker 1: Gary and Chris Sr. Were very close. Gary just happened

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Speaker 1: to be at Chris's home that night. He was actually

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Speaker 1: from Kentucky, so you know, he didn't even live in

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Speaker 1: the area or the neighborhood, but you know, lived close

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Speaker 1: enough to where he was staying with Chris that evening.

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Speaker 1: We do know that the shooter was very close to

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Speaker 1: Gary when they fired, because they talked about what is

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Speaker 1: referred to as a press contact bench at wanted and

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Speaker 1: if our listeners will essentially take your index finger, okay,

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Speaker 1: and point it toward the palm of your hand and

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Speaker 1: extend the tip of your finger maybe I don't know,

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Speaker 1: probably about half an inch away from the surface of

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Speaker 1: your palm. That's kind of what we will refer to

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Speaker 1: as a contact moon. And what that means is that

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Speaker 1: you're going to have, you know, the bullets not the

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Speaker 1: only thing coming out of the end of the weapon.

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Speaker 1: You're going to have the fire that actually the ignition

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Speaker 1: of the bullet, and around you'll of this burning of

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Speaker 1: powder that's coming out. You'll have unburned powder that's coming out.

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Speaker 1: So this is a very intimate event. I spoke with

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Speaker 1: my Gallen, criminal defense attorney from Ohio. Are you able

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Speaker 1: to talk about the scenes themselves? You know, if you

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Speaker 1: look at it and it's all from the autopsy reports,

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Speaker 1: those kind of injuries leaves no doubt that this was

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Speaker 1: an intentional or these all were intentional killings, kind of

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Speaker 1: designed to send a message to someone. The muscle mark

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Speaker 1: sticks in my mind. You have to be obviously arms reach.

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Speaker 1: I mean, you are locking eyes with the victim, it

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Speaker 1: would seem. Does that paint any kind of picture to

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Speaker 1: or indicate to officers or attorneys anything, Sure it does,

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Speaker 1: and maybe even closer than arm's length, I mean maybe

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Speaker 1: just inches. It indicates to me at least, especially when

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Speaker 1: you have the number of shots like that here that

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Speaker 1: somebody was trying to send a message out. I don't

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Speaker 1: think there can be any doubt about that. I mean,

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Speaker 1: it was personal, and I think that's what that demonstrates.

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Speaker 1: At this point, Bobby Josie's two people did by twelve

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Speaker 1: gunshot wounds. While waiting desperately for police to arrive, she

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Speaker 1: makes her way over to her nephew, Frankie's house. She

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Speaker 1: wanted to get some help and to tell him what

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Speaker 1: happened to his father and uncle, whose bodies she had

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Speaker 1: just found. Frankie Rowden was Chris Senior and Dana's oldest son.

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Speaker 1: The twenty year old was a father to two boys.

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Speaker 1: Like his parents, Frankie was a hard worker. He loved fishing, hunting,

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Speaker 1: and demolition Derby, but nothing so much as his family

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Speaker 1: and his fiance, nineteen year old Hannah Gilly. Hannah Gilly

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Speaker 1: was on the home coming court in high school, and

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Speaker 1: at that time she told friends she planned to go

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Speaker 1: to college, get a business degree, and open a daycare.

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Speaker 1: Frankie and Hannah wanted a lot of kids. They had

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Speaker 1: a bright future. The young family lived together just up

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Speaker 1: the street from Chris Sr. Also on Union Hill Road.

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Speaker 1: They were looking forward to getting married soon. So after

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Speaker 1: went to Frankie's house near right nearby, and the person

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Speaker 1: As the police reports and newspaper reports showed, he was,

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Speaker 1: you know, covered in blood, and he, like any three

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Speaker 1: year old, sort of didn't fully understand what was going on.

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Speaker 1: And he told his aunt that, you know, his father

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Speaker 1: was playing zombie in the bedroom, and that's because the

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Speaker 1: family were fans of the Walking Dead, so you know,

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Speaker 1: he was in there with his father playing zombie, which

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Speaker 1: is absolutely heartbreaking. Twenty year old Frankie Rodin was shot

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Speaker 1: three times in the head as he lay in bed

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Speaker 1: next to his fiance and they're six month old. We

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Speaker 1: talked about Hannah Gillie Hayes shot five toms, she catches

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Speaker 1: one in the eye. It poses this idea, why are

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Speaker 1: you shooting these people in the face. What's the purpose

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Speaker 1: of it? Because not only shooting him in the face,

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Speaker 1: you're shoot him multiple times. What threat did she post?

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Speaker 1: She's laying there, was her child in the bed meanwhile,

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Speaker 1: and this is all happening around eight am on April

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Speaker 1: twenty second, Bobby Joe calls their brother James. She's in hysterics.

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Speaker 1: There's now two murder scenes, four people dead, twenty gunshot wounds,

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Speaker 1: two children left alive. At the scenes, James immediately goes

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Speaker 1: over to his sister Dana's house to check on her

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Speaker 1: and the remaining kids. Danna Rudin was a nurse known

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Speaker 1: for her gregarious nature and loving smile. She'd met Chris

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Speaker 1: Rudden Senior when she was just in high school and

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Speaker 1: it was love at first sight. Even though they divorced

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Speaker 1: twenty two years later, they remained very close together. The

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Speaker 1: pair had three beautiful children, twenty year old Frankie, Hannah May,

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Speaker 1: and little Chris. She's goodhearted, a lot of fun, you know,

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Speaker 1: always laughing, cracking up. She was a very very good person.

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Speaker 1: She sent me a text she slaved my grand babies

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Speaker 1: here and I said, well, congratulations, I said, she's beautiful.

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Speaker 1: What did you What did Hannah May name her? She

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Speaker 1: said Kylie May and I said that's so pretty. And

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Speaker 1: that was the last, you know, the last thing I

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Speaker 1: ever heard from Dana. She again, like Chris Senior, was

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Speaker 1: shot multiple times, and only was she shot multiple times,

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Speaker 1: but specifically reports have her having been shot five times,

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Speaker 1: four times, four times in the head. Now, what in

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Speaker 1: the hell would you shoot somebody four times in the head,

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Speaker 1: because you know one should suffice. But the shooter took

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Speaker 1: the time to take that muzzle of that weapon. Stick

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Speaker 1: it beneath Dana's chin. Stick it beneath her chin. This

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Speaker 1: is a common location for suicide, all right, This is

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Speaker 1: atypical for homicide. This particular April seemed extra special because

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Speaker 1: Hannahme had just given birth to her second daughter five

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Speaker 1: days prior. Just weeks before that, Dana threw Hannahme a

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Speaker 1: big baby shower at their new house. The pictures from

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Speaker 1: the showers show what a happy celebration it was. Sadly, James,

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Speaker 1: Dana's brother, was about to enter yet one more unimaginable scene.

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Speaker 1: Dana and her nineteen year old daughter, Hannah May were

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Speaker 1: both dead. Hannah road and she was shot twice in

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Speaker 1: the head as their newborn laid beside her. Maybe they're

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Speaker 1: curled in a fetal posture along with her baby, just

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Speaker 1: curled in a fetal posture. Mom was slowly stroking the

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Speaker 1: head of the baby. Try to, you know, calm sue

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Speaker 1: the baby. During the night, Maybe she awakes and breastfeeds

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Speaker 1: the baby during the night while she's sleeping. It's a

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Speaker 1: position and people have slept in for thousands and thousands

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Speaker 1: of years. It's a position of comfort. You imagine you're

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Speaker 1: laying there, You're there to protect your baby, and you're

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Speaker 1: curled up on your side. There's an awareness. This brings

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Speaker 1: us back to when Dana's son, the high school freshman,

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Speaker 1: Chris Junior, was nowhere to be found. It took detectives

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Speaker 1: several hours to locate him, but finally little Chris was

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Speaker 1: found the home with his mother, Dana, and his sister Hannah.

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Speaker 1: May sixteen year old Chris Junior was shot four tops,

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Speaker 1: including twice in the top of his head. He was

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Speaker 1: found wedged behind his bed, implying that he was trying

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Speaker 1: to hide from the killer or killers. There's now seven

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Speaker 1: people dead, thirty one gunshot wounds, and three children left alive.

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Speaker 1: At the scenes, the once small and sleepy town became

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Speaker 1: the epicenter for grizzly crime and the subsequent complex murder investigation.

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Speaker 1: When it was all said and done, two families would

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Speaker 1: be destroyed and the town would never be the same.

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Speaker 1: For the quiet town, the scene was unreal. Nearly seven

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Speaker 1: hours after the first bodies were found, at one twenty

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Speaker 1: six pm on April twenty second, final fatal discovery. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I need to Deny has been out to post a

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Speaker 1: seven nine nine left for Okay, uh, it's all that stuff.

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Speaker 1: It's on the news. I just sound just sound. My

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Speaker 1: cousin was again shot wing. Okay, very right, So okay,

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Speaker 1: I'll be staying out by the very way. It don

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Speaker 1: whole thing, Donald Dond whole thing. Sound. Yeah, I'm gonna says,

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Speaker 1: what do you mean it's Rody can it's rod Yeah, Okay,

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Speaker 1: care honey, out of the house. I'm I'm out of

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Speaker 1: the house right now. I just went in Laura name

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Speaker 1: and check Laura and a little to say he had

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Speaker 1: again shot wing. Okay, sure we're gonna get that. You

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Speaker 1: do down thirty okay, all right. A few miles down

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Speaker 1: Union Hill Road was Chris Roden Senior's brother Kenneth. The

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Speaker 1: forty four year old was shot once through his right eye.

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Speaker 1: Kenneth's cousin, Donald Stone, went to check on Kenneth after

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Speaker 1: hearing about the murders of their six other family members.

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Speaker 1: He'd failed to hear from Kenneth that day. What does

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Speaker 1: it say that they would take the time and put

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Speaker 1: themselves in a position where they could be face to

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Speaker 1: face with Kenneth. He was found covered with dollar bills

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Speaker 1: that were strewing about his body. He just god, I mean,

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Speaker 1: you can't, you can't make this up. By the time

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Speaker 1: officials released the names of the eight victims piked In,

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Speaker 1: residents were reeling. You know, they had snuck in in

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Speaker 1: the night and committed this, these murders, and nobody had

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Speaker 1: a clue about you know who or why, and that's

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Speaker 1: really scary. We're going to take a break. I'm Carol Fisher,

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Speaker 1: and I'm hosting a podcast called The Girlfriends. Back in

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Speaker 1: the nineteen nineties in Las Vegas, a few of us

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Speaker 1: dated the most eligible bachelor in town, Bob. He spoke

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Speaker 1: several languages, he did medical missionary work, and he was Jewish.

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Speaker 1: He was perfect on paper. But he wasn't. He really wasn't.

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Speaker 1: He shouted into the point she went unconscious. Bob could

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Speaker 1: lie about anything, but only takes the one time when

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Speaker 1: somebody ends up dead. Unfortunately for Bob, us girlfriends know

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Speaker 1: how to fight back. I wanted him to pay for

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Speaker 1: his crime. He needed to be put to justice. I'll

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Speaker 1: be honest with your five song him right now. I'd

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Speaker 1: spit up them. I would call him and I would say,

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Speaker 1: I know you killed my sister. I will always hound

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Speaker 1: you and haunt you. You can listen to the Girlfriends

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Speaker 1: on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get

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Speaker 1: your podcasts. Hi, I'm Delia Wild. Then I want to

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Speaker 1: invite you to listen to my newest podcast, The Afters

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Speaker 1: to make up our bodies already existed in the style.

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Speaker 1: It's called the Oh My God Particles Show or OMGPS

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Speaker 1: for short. How you like me always wondering about the universe,

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Speaker 1: like what the universe is made of? What is in

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Speaker 1: the atmospheres of alien punic? And you know, how are

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Speaker 1: we even here to even ask those questions? So road Trip,

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Speaker 1: I want to get some answers directly from researchers at

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Speaker 1: the Large Hadron Collider. We're colliding particles with energies that

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Speaker 1: naturally existed when the universe was about a trillions of

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Speaker 1: a second old. I found scientists from all over the world.

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Speaker 1: Everybody is working together to get that experiment working. Got

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Speaker 1: to doctor Brilliant astrophysicist who collaborated with Brian May, the

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Speaker 1: guitarist from Queen. Listen to the Oh My God Particle

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Speaker 1: Show on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever

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Speaker 1: you get your podcasts. This is the unbelievable but true

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Speaker 1: story of George Remus. You might know him as a

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Speaker 1: character from Boardwalk Empire or as the inspiration for Jay Gatsby.

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Speaker 1: He was an eccentric and genius lawyer who figured out

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Speaker 1: how to game the system during Prohibition. Remus is in

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Speaker 1: the whiskey business, and Remus is the biggest man in

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Speaker 1: the business, while living the life of luxury with his

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Speaker 1: clamorous and ambitious wife Imogene. Daddy, I am so glad

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Speaker 1: you're here. But George Remus's wild existence took a dark

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Speaker 1: and shocking turn, leading to betrayal. She had Remus just

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Speaker 1: exactly where she wanted him revenge. Feel this muscle. I

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Speaker 1: got this for Remus. I could crush him like an egg.

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Speaker 1: And one of the most sensational murder trials in American history,

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Speaker 1: Jury Find the Defendant. Join me Abbot Kaylor as we

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Speaker 1: trace George Rimus's transformation from bootleg king to alleged madman.

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Speaker 1: Listen to Remus the mad Bootleg King every Tuesday on

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Speaker 1: the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

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Speaker 1: Hello and welcome to Bad Manners. This is the podcast

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Speaker 1: that takes you inside Britain's stately homes and tells all

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Speaker 1: the tales the guide books don't. My name is Tom

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Speaker 1: Horton and I'll be your host. Britain is riddled with

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Speaker 1: the big houses, from crumbling castles, massive mansions and stately

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Speaker 1: piles bigger than Buckingham Palace. As a comedian, I'm not

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Speaker 1: really bothered about the facts and figures. I just want

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Speaker 1: the juicy stuff. So I'm on a mission to find

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Speaker 1: out the frightening, filthy and downright jaw dropping stories of

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Speaker 1: these stately homes and the people in them. This podcast

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Speaker 1: ventures deep inside some of Britain's most incredible and outrageous

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Speaker 1: buildings to spill the tea on the scandalous, scary, shocking

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Speaker 1: and hilarious tales. So if you want to get historically horrid,

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Speaker 1: royally raucous and down to dirty, look now. If listen

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Speaker 1: to Bad Manners on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts or

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Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcasts, We'll be back in a moment.

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Speaker 1: There were rumors about who had done the crime everywhere online,

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Speaker 1: in the coffee shops, amongst the police, I mean everyone

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Speaker 1: was talking about who could have done it and why

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Speaker 1: they would have done it. Investigators believed that the murders

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Speaker 1: were clearly premeditated, but the killing spree was so staggering

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Speaker 1: and merciless there were endless questions. One of the first

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Speaker 1: things investigators studied where confrontations the roads had with locals

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Speaker 1: in recent years. Could these conflicts have triggered of vendetta

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Speaker 1: against the family. There was one concerning incident that had

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Speaker 1: happened at a demolition derby. Based on what's been recorded

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Speaker 1: in the court documents, I think it's fair to say

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Speaker 1: that Frankie and Chris Junior, I mean definitely were hotheads.

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Speaker 1: It definitely got into fights here and there. They had

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Speaker 1: an incident with a fellow named Tommy Gorman who was

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Speaker 1: a rival in the demolition derbys. They got into a

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Speaker 1: bit of a sort of heated match and there was

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Speaker 1: a believe a sort of incident on the track they

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Speaker 1: got him. Stay with each other's bad blood and then

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Speaker 1: again it's you know, kind of kicked up speed with

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Speaker 1: Facebook posts about sort of consulting each other, and then,

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Speaker 1: of course, Chris Junior Frankie drove over to Gorman's house

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Speaker 1: and proceeded to really beat on Gorman and his father,

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Speaker 1: And the fights and meetings were only really broken up

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Speaker 1: after grandfather came out and pumped a few shotgun shells

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Speaker 1: into the air. Chris Junior had also gotten into a

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Speaker 1: scuffle with another local kid named Rusty Mongol. Mongold had

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Speaker 1: posted on Facebook that Christ Junior hid him with a car,

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Speaker 1: and in his message, you know, he uses some pretty

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Speaker 1: tough language. I mean, Rusty was nineteen at the time,

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Speaker 1: and you know he's talking about I'm gonna break his

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Speaker 1: fucking legs and curb stop his ass and sort of

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Speaker 1: nineteen year old bluster. Really, the Rusty Mongol thing happened

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Speaker 1: just two weeks before the murders. But police scoured both

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Speaker 1: of these leads, even taking DNA evidence of the suspects,

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Speaker 1: they came up empty. An ominous feeling had spread throughout

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Speaker 1: Pike County. Here's investigative reporter Jodi Barr. You got eight

425
00:28:53,880 --> 00:28:58,600
Speaker 1: members of one family targeted, murdered in their sleep in

426
00:28:58,680 --> 00:29:03,840
Speaker 1: their homes, and the killer seemingly vanished. We didn't know

427
00:29:03,960 --> 00:29:06,360
Speaker 1: the pieces, we didn't know how to put it together.

428
00:29:06,600 --> 00:29:10,120
Speaker 1: There was no information coming out about these murders, about motives.

429
00:29:10,440 --> 00:29:13,320
Speaker 1: Even the family members who were in direct communication with

430
00:29:13,400 --> 00:29:17,120
Speaker 1: law enforcement, even they weren't being told anything. I mean,

431
00:29:17,160 --> 00:29:19,680
Speaker 1: it's called it good investigative work, and you hold your

432
00:29:19,720 --> 00:29:22,680
Speaker 1: cards close to the chest as an investigator. Maybe that's

433
00:29:22,680 --> 00:29:25,040
Speaker 1: what it was. But from the outside looking in, it

434
00:29:25,120 --> 00:29:28,120
Speaker 1: was almost like law enforcement didn't have a clue at

435
00:29:28,120 --> 00:29:33,360
Speaker 1: that point in time. Led by an ambitious sheriff, Charles Reader,

436
00:29:33,600 --> 00:29:37,680
Speaker 1: the ensuing investigation soon became the largest in Ohio's history.

437
00:29:37,800 --> 00:29:41,400
Speaker 1: I've got a message for the killers. We will find you.

438
00:29:41,720 --> 00:29:44,680
Speaker 1: The family and the victims will have justice one day.

439
00:29:47,240 --> 00:29:49,360
Speaker 1: There are so many pieces that have to be put

440
00:29:49,440 --> 00:29:53,479
Speaker 1: into place with this, you're leap frogging from this blood

441
00:29:53,480 --> 00:29:57,920
Speaker 1: bath to another blood bath. One of the first major

442
00:29:57,960 --> 00:30:00,600
Speaker 1: developments in the case came when Mike d Line, then

443
00:30:00,640 --> 00:30:03,760
Speaker 1: Ohio's Attorney General, announced that he believed the killings were

444
00:30:03,800 --> 00:30:07,920
Speaker 1: planned and premeditated. He cited clear efforts taken by the

445
00:30:07,920 --> 00:30:13,000
Speaker 1: shooter or shooters to remove any incriminating forensic evidence. The

446
00:30:13,080 --> 00:30:15,800
Speaker 1: Attorney General Dwine at the time said it was a

447
00:30:15,800 --> 00:30:19,480
Speaker 1: pretty sophisticated operation, and the people that carried it out

448
00:30:19,640 --> 00:30:22,400
Speaker 1: were trying to do everything they could to make sure

449
00:30:22,440 --> 00:30:26,200
Speaker 1: that they didn't get caught. Attorney General Dwine and Sheriff Reader,

450
00:30:26,400 --> 00:30:28,840
Speaker 1: they both said that the investigation was going to be

451
00:30:28,880 --> 00:30:32,000
Speaker 1: a long one and a lengthy process, and Boyd sure

452
00:30:32,040 --> 00:30:36,480
Speaker 1: has played out that way. An investigative task force of

453
00:30:36,600 --> 00:30:40,480
Speaker 1: massive scope kicked into gear, led by the Ohio Bureau

454
00:30:40,520 --> 00:30:44,280
Speaker 1: of Criminal Investigation the BCI. More than two hundred and

455
00:30:44,280 --> 00:30:48,240
Speaker 1: fifty one law enforcement officials were mobilized, including sheriffs from

456
00:30:48,240 --> 00:30:52,440
Speaker 1: twenty five offices across Ohio. The FBI and the DA

457
00:30:52,560 --> 00:30:57,400
Speaker 1: stepped in to provide technical expertise to Dwine's office. Solemn

458
00:30:57,480 --> 00:31:01,520
Speaker 1: funerals were held for all the victims. For two years,

459
00:31:01,600 --> 00:31:05,360
Speaker 1: not a single arrest was made. You lived in that area, man,

460
00:31:05,400 --> 00:31:07,959
Speaker 1: it was hush hush. You were just kind of walking

461
00:31:08,000 --> 00:31:10,600
Speaker 1: around looking over your shoulder at seeing with some of

462
00:31:10,600 --> 00:31:13,560
Speaker 1: these people, not knowing you know, who could be next.

463
00:31:13,720 --> 00:31:18,520
Speaker 1: Who did it? There was one very curious lead that

464
00:31:18,600 --> 00:31:22,160
Speaker 1: investigators had unhearthed. At three of the crime scenes on

465
00:31:22,280 --> 00:31:25,800
Speaker 1: Union Hill Road, police found a substantial marijuana grow operation,

466
00:31:26,440 --> 00:31:31,280
Speaker 1: including a grow house harboring hundreds of cannabis plants. This

467
00:31:31,400 --> 00:31:34,520
Speaker 1: grow operation on the Rodents property was clearly being cultivated

468
00:31:34,560 --> 00:31:38,480
Speaker 1: for sale. It was also worth almost half a million dollars.

469
00:31:41,120 --> 00:31:44,440
Speaker 1: The Rodents had a pretty sizable crop of marijuana plants

470
00:31:44,480 --> 00:31:48,080
Speaker 1: on their property. You know, there were indications that they

471
00:31:48,080 --> 00:31:51,520
Speaker 1: were involved in fund drug deals and drug trade with marijuana.

472
00:31:55,120 --> 00:32:00,120
Speaker 1: That obviously feeled even more speculation than these were outside operators.

473
00:32:00,160 --> 00:32:02,840
Speaker 1: Possibly was as a drug deal gone bad, or was

474
00:32:02,880 --> 00:32:05,200
Speaker 1: somebody trying to take over their turf. All kinds of

475
00:32:05,240 --> 00:32:10,320
Speaker 1: rumors started to slow after that disclosure. As the months

476
00:32:10,400 --> 00:32:14,080
Speaker 1: swore on. No one's been arrested, no one charged, no

477
00:32:14,320 --> 00:32:19,560
Speaker 1: people named as persons of interest. You really started to wonder,

478
00:32:19,760 --> 00:32:23,000
Speaker 1: you know, maybe this drug cartel thing there was something

479
00:32:23,040 --> 00:32:30,000
Speaker 1: too that they definitely knew how to kill people. You know,

480
00:32:30,080 --> 00:32:33,360
Speaker 1: you're looking for signs of the drug cartel, and then

481
00:32:33,760 --> 00:32:37,040
Speaker 1: you find Kenneth Roden with what appeared to be a

482
00:32:37,080 --> 00:32:41,120
Speaker 1: gunshot in the head, but that there were dollar bills

483
00:32:41,240 --> 00:32:45,040
Speaker 1: or some sort of paper money spread around the body.

484
00:32:45,480 --> 00:32:53,000
Speaker 1: Was that a sign? What did that mean? Could the

485
00:32:53,080 --> 00:32:56,800
Speaker 1: Rodent's operation have motivated a cartel hit, a lethal battle

486
00:32:56,840 --> 00:33:02,280
Speaker 1: over territory? It was a tenable idea. But over the

487
00:33:02,320 --> 00:33:06,080
Speaker 1: next months, as the investigation dug deeper, an entire new

488
00:33:06,160 --> 00:33:11,640
Speaker 1: set of possible culprits came into frame. The Wagner family

489
00:33:12,080 --> 00:33:16,320
Speaker 1: Angela Wagner forty eight years old, her husband Billy Wagner

490
00:33:16,600 --> 00:33:20,880
Speaker 1: forty seven, their two sons, George and Jake, both in

491
00:33:20,920 --> 00:33:25,880
Speaker 1: their mid twenties, Angela's mother, Rita Newcombe, and the family matriarch,

492
00:33:26,120 --> 00:33:30,840
Speaker 1: Frederica Wagner. Here's Jeff. The Wagners were a well known

493
00:33:30,880 --> 00:33:32,800
Speaker 1: and well to do family in the Piketon area, and

494
00:33:32,840 --> 00:33:35,360
Speaker 1: Frederica Wagner was at the helm of this. A self

495
00:33:35,360 --> 00:33:39,080
Speaker 1: described entrepreneur, she owned properties Oliver Pike County that spanned

496
00:33:39,120 --> 00:33:41,720
Speaker 1: over seventeen hundred acres and were valued at more than

497
00:33:41,720 --> 00:33:45,760
Speaker 1: four million dollars. She had also founded two nonprofits, Lucasville Mission,

498
00:33:46,040 --> 00:33:49,600
Speaker 1: a church that helps underprivileged children, and the Crystal Springs Home,

499
00:33:49,720 --> 00:33:54,200
Speaker 1: a facility that provides services to developmentally disabled adults. As

500
00:33:54,240 --> 00:33:57,600
Speaker 1: we've learned throughout the series, Frederica had her detractors as

501
00:33:57,640 --> 00:34:01,200
Speaker 1: well as her supporters in the community. We probably need

502
00:34:01,200 --> 00:34:04,280
Speaker 1: to clarify here. The Wagners seemed like a good, God

503
00:34:04,320 --> 00:34:08,320
Speaker 1: fearing country family, but police were gathering heart evidence linking

504
00:34:08,360 --> 00:34:11,520
Speaker 1: the Wagners to the crime, and the Wagners had had

505
00:34:11,560 --> 00:34:14,719
Speaker 1: some tangles with law enforcement in the past. In two

506
00:34:14,719 --> 00:34:18,520
Speaker 1: thousand and one, seemingly homespun mother Angela Wagner, along with

507
00:34:18,560 --> 00:34:22,400
Speaker 1: Billy Wagner, were charged with improperly handling a firearm. In

508
00:34:22,480 --> 00:34:26,080
Speaker 1: two and twelve, they were both charged with receiving stolen property,

509
00:34:26,400 --> 00:34:30,279
Speaker 1: a felony. Investigators discovered that in the months prior to

510
00:34:30,320 --> 00:34:33,880
Speaker 1: the killings, the Wagners began making their own gun silencers.

511
00:34:34,960 --> 00:34:38,560
Speaker 1: Police believe silencers were necessary to pull these killings off

512
00:34:38,640 --> 00:34:43,200
Speaker 1: because they happened in such close proximity. Investigators also found

513
00:34:43,239 --> 00:34:47,120
Speaker 1: that the Wagner family had bought ammunition, a magazine clip,

514
00:34:47,680 --> 00:34:52,160
Speaker 1: a bug detector, and materials to build brass catchers. The

515
00:34:52,320 --> 00:34:55,440
Speaker 1: brass catcher is a bag that hooks on the side

516
00:34:55,440 --> 00:35:00,279
Speaker 1: of a firearm. It will catch spent cartridges, so every

517
00:35:00,280 --> 00:35:04,080
Speaker 1: time you pull the trigger, a cartridge is ejected. And

518
00:35:04,520 --> 00:35:07,040
Speaker 1: if you were really interested in not leaving anything behind

519
00:35:07,560 --> 00:35:10,760
Speaker 1: as far as holistic evidence, it sounds like a great story.

520
00:35:11,160 --> 00:35:13,719
Speaker 1: This bag will collect the shell casing so there's no

521
00:35:14,239 --> 00:35:20,840
Speaker 1: left behind. The bug detector so purely that helps someone

522
00:35:20,880 --> 00:35:24,400
Speaker 1: find Listening devices will sometimes create white noiset to muffle

523
00:35:24,480 --> 00:35:32,760
Speaker 1: sounds or discussion. Authority starts to seventy one acre farm

524
00:35:32,760 --> 00:35:36,839
Speaker 1: in Peebles that was once owned by Jake Wagner. Jake

525
00:35:37,000 --> 00:35:41,080
Speaker 1: was victim Hanname Roden's former boyfriend. The pair shared a

526
00:35:41,080 --> 00:35:44,600
Speaker 1: three year old child together. Jake and Hanname Rodin had

527
00:35:44,640 --> 00:35:47,439
Speaker 1: parted bitterly and were fighting over custody at the time

528
00:35:47,440 --> 00:35:51,080
Speaker 1: of her murder. The vice was tightening around the Wagner family,

529
00:35:51,840 --> 00:35:54,239
Speaker 1: and some speculate that the only way they felt they

530
00:35:54,239 --> 00:35:56,840
Speaker 1: could escape it was to move four thousand miles away.

531
00:35:58,680 --> 00:36:02,200
Speaker 1: They moved to Alaska, which raised even more suspicions. But

532
00:36:02,239 --> 00:36:05,400
Speaker 1: then the very following month, law enforcement actually finally searches

533
00:36:05,600 --> 00:36:08,719
Speaker 1: properties where the Wagners lived, So that was really the

534
00:36:08,760 --> 00:36:13,120
Speaker 1: first public indication that the Wagners were possible suspects of

535
00:36:13,200 --> 00:36:19,000
Speaker 1: not people of interest. The Wagners made keen I, Alaska,

536
00:36:19,080 --> 00:36:22,239
Speaker 1: their new home. It's a tiny town south of Anchorage.

537
00:36:23,000 --> 00:36:27,239
Speaker 1: All the while they vehemently denied any wrongdoing. Jake's mother,

538
00:36:27,280 --> 00:36:31,000
Speaker 1: Angela Wagner, said her husband Billy Wagner, and victim Chris

539
00:36:31,080 --> 00:36:34,879
Speaker 1: Roden senior were like brothers. She claimed that Billy would

540
00:36:35,000 --> 00:36:39,799
Speaker 1: never harm Chris. Billy's mother, grandmother, Frederica Wagner, said the

541
00:36:39,800 --> 00:36:43,640
Speaker 1: Wagners were quote a good Christian family and despite the

542
00:36:43,680 --> 00:36:47,360
Speaker 1: speculation about the family, many in Pike County couldn't figure

543
00:36:47,360 --> 00:36:55,160
Speaker 1: the Wagners from murderers. I read that and I had

544
00:36:55,239 --> 00:37:00,480
Speaker 1: to laugh. I had to laugh so hard. Okay, so

545
00:37:01,760 --> 00:37:05,960
Speaker 1: you have to remember that this was a very organized,

546
00:37:07,520 --> 00:37:13,480
Speaker 1: brilliantly done execution. This is something that you wouldn't learn

547
00:37:14,440 --> 00:37:23,879
Speaker 1: on a DVD, something with military background, Navy seals. I mean,

548
00:37:23,920 --> 00:37:28,240
Speaker 1: whoever did it was was brilliant. They're professional. These people

549
00:37:28,280 --> 00:37:34,120
Speaker 1: are not professional killers. I think that is the common

550
00:37:34,320 --> 00:37:38,480
Speaker 1: theme of this entire story about Pike County and about

551
00:37:38,560 --> 00:37:41,759
Speaker 1: this road and massacre, is it seems just too far

552
00:37:41,840 --> 00:37:44,160
Speaker 1: fetched out when you try to connect the dots through

553
00:37:44,239 --> 00:37:48,160
Speaker 1: the histories of you know, how the Waggoners conducted their business,

554
00:37:48,280 --> 00:37:50,839
Speaker 1: how they live their lives. I don't know that I

555
00:37:50,920 --> 00:37:54,160
Speaker 1: have seen any reporting, any fact brought out about the

556
00:37:54,200 --> 00:37:57,160
Speaker 1: Waggoners that would say, Yep, there you go, mass murderers.

557
00:37:57,719 --> 00:38:00,839
Speaker 1: I think that is the draw that continues to keep

558
00:38:00,840 --> 00:38:04,600
Speaker 1: people interested in this story. Is that you would have

559
00:38:04,680 --> 00:38:08,000
Speaker 1: never seen any of this coming. In the spring of

560
00:38:08,000 --> 00:38:10,960
Speaker 1: twenty and eighteen, the Wagner's returned to the piked In

561
00:38:11,040 --> 00:38:14,280
Speaker 1: area to take care of Billy's aging father. The plan

562
00:38:14,400 --> 00:38:16,360
Speaker 1: was to set him up with care and then returned

563
00:38:16,360 --> 00:38:24,239
Speaker 1: to Alaska, but things did not go as planned. If

564
00:38:24,280 --> 00:38:27,319
Speaker 1: you seek about it, the Wagners were scott free. They

565
00:38:27,360 --> 00:38:30,080
Speaker 1: went to Alaska. It could have took off and nobody

566
00:38:30,080 --> 00:38:33,319
Speaker 1: could have ever seen them again ever, But they came

567
00:38:33,400 --> 00:38:39,160
Speaker 1: back here. They came back now the way that I am,

568
00:38:39,200 --> 00:38:41,000
Speaker 1: I would never do that. But if I had pulled

569
00:38:41,040 --> 00:38:43,640
Speaker 1: something off like that and got away with that loan

570
00:38:43,719 --> 00:38:46,279
Speaker 1: and went to Alaska, you know, I'm packing my ship

571
00:38:46,480 --> 00:38:48,279
Speaker 1: and I'm hitting the woods, and nobody's ever going to

572
00:38:48,320 --> 00:38:50,239
Speaker 1: see me again, I'm sure the hell I'm not going

573
00:38:50,280 --> 00:38:52,000
Speaker 1: to come back. It's the only way I would come

574
00:38:52,040 --> 00:38:56,800
Speaker 1: back is if I thought my ass were covered. With

575
00:38:56,960 --> 00:39:01,000
Speaker 1: their investigation reaching a fever pitch, then Bio Attorney General

576
00:39:01,080 --> 00:39:04,799
Speaker 1: Mike Dwine and Pike County Sheriff Charlie Reader asked the

577
00:39:04,840 --> 00:39:08,239
Speaker 1: public for information on the Wagner family. I hope that

578
00:39:09,239 --> 00:39:13,800
Speaker 1: an unfortune in this area apprehend eaching everyone these are peoples,

579
00:39:13,800 --> 00:39:21,720
Speaker 1: These are monsters. Dwine said he was quote laser focused

580
00:39:21,719 --> 00:39:26,839
Speaker 1: on the Wagners their business dealings, vehicles, firearms, and ammunition.

581
00:39:27,680 --> 00:39:32,080
Speaker 1: Investigators had solid ballistic evidence connecting firearms using the homicide

582
00:39:32,239 --> 00:39:36,719
Speaker 1: with guns believed to be owned by the Wagners. These

583
00:39:36,760 --> 00:39:41,000
Speaker 1: included a twenty two caliber long rifle, a forty caliber handgun,

584
00:39:41,640 --> 00:39:48,200
Speaker 1: and a thirty caliber gun. They also recovered a homemade

585
00:39:48,239 --> 00:39:52,680
Speaker 1: silencer at the bottom of a well on the Wagner's property. Well,

586
00:39:52,680 --> 00:39:56,439
Speaker 1: good afternoon. We promised that the day would come when

587
00:39:56,440 --> 00:40:00,000
Speaker 1: a rush would be made in the Pike County massacres

588
00:40:01,280 --> 00:40:03,680
Speaker 1: today or is that today? In a series of arrests

589
00:40:03,680 --> 00:40:07,200
Speaker 1: that sent shock waves through the insulated community, six members

590
00:40:07,200 --> 00:40:10,280
Speaker 1: of a local family, the Wagners, were taken into custody.

591
00:40:10,440 --> 00:40:18,480
Speaker 1: Hold up, keep your hands up, Oh up. Forty seven

592
00:40:18,560 --> 00:40:21,040
Speaker 1: year old Billy Wagner is the patriarch of the Wagner

593
00:40:21,080 --> 00:40:24,120
Speaker 1: family and was arrested near Lexington, Kentucky, and a horse

594
00:40:24,160 --> 00:40:28,720
Speaker 1: trailer that was pulled over. Go down your name, I'm Wagner.

595
00:40:29,400 --> 00:40:33,680
Speaker 1: I'm Wagner. Angela Wagner is Billy's wife and matriarch of

596
00:40:33,760 --> 00:40:36,440
Speaker 1: the Wagner family. The forty eight year old, was arrested

597
00:40:36,480 --> 00:40:40,640
Speaker 1: at their home near Pikedon, Ohio. Go Ahead. Angela Wagner

598
00:40:40,680 --> 00:40:45,680
Speaker 1: in the car twenty one copy thirteen thirty one. Angela

599
00:40:45,719 --> 00:40:49,120
Speaker 1: and Billy's two sons, George Wagner and Jake Wagner, were

600
00:40:49,200 --> 00:40:53,800
Speaker 1: arrested together during a traffic stop. George's twenty seven and

601
00:40:53,960 --> 00:40:58,280
Speaker 1: Jake was twenty six. Seventy six year old Fredrika Wagner,

602
00:40:58,440 --> 00:41:01,560
Speaker 1: Billy Wagner's mother, was arested at the family's horse farm,

603
00:41:01,840 --> 00:41:05,839
Speaker 1: The Flying w Angela Wagner's mother, sixty five year old

604
00:41:05,920 --> 00:41:12,520
Speaker 1: Rita Joe Nukam, was arrested at her home, while six

605
00:41:12,600 --> 00:41:15,360
Speaker 1: members of the Wagner family were arrested in connection with

606
00:41:15,440 --> 00:41:19,280
Speaker 1: the crime. Billy, Angela, George, and Jake Wagner were charged

607
00:41:19,320 --> 00:41:24,320
Speaker 1: with eight counts of aggravated murder. Details about the arrests

608
00:41:24,360 --> 00:41:27,000
Speaker 1: of four people and the murders of eight members of

609
00:41:27,040 --> 00:41:31,720
Speaker 1: the road In family. All the arrests happened within minutes

610
00:41:31,760 --> 00:41:35,080
Speaker 1: of each other, and that tells me that the BCI,

611
00:41:35,239 --> 00:41:39,840
Speaker 1: the Ohio Bureau of Criminal Identification, who was in charge

612
00:41:39,880 --> 00:41:43,200
Speaker 1: of this investigation, they know what they're doing and they

613
00:41:43,280 --> 00:41:46,240
Speaker 1: wanted to make sure that they affected these arrests without

614
00:41:46,320 --> 00:41:50,759
Speaker 1: any kind of problems or tipping anybody off, So they

615
00:41:50,880 --> 00:41:55,160
Speaker 1: hit that thing down pretty tight. Six months later, four

616
00:41:55,239 --> 00:41:58,000
Speaker 1: members of the Wagner family were indicted on charges of

617
00:41:58,120 --> 00:42:06,520
Speaker 1: aggravated murder with death nalty specification for the murders. Yesterday

618
00:42:06,719 --> 00:42:10,440
Speaker 1: a Pike County grand jury and died foreign individuals for

619
00:42:10,560 --> 00:42:20,560
Speaker 1: aggravated murder with death pality specification for legilate committing this heartless, ruthless,

620
00:42:21,200 --> 00:42:30,040
Speaker 1: cold blood murder. Did they do it? We want to

621
00:42:30,080 --> 00:42:32,480
Speaker 1: know now, obviously everybody wants to know right now. And man,

622
00:42:32,520 --> 00:42:36,440
Speaker 1: if they're cooperating, as this attorney says, they're giving over computers,

623
00:42:36,480 --> 00:42:39,880
Speaker 1: a laptop, DNA, whatever it takes. You know, people who

624
00:42:39,960 --> 00:42:42,880
Speaker 1: aren't experts of criminology. If we look at that and go, well, man,

625
00:42:42,960 --> 00:42:46,200
Speaker 1: that sounds like an innocent person. An innocent person will

626
00:42:46,200 --> 00:42:50,920
Speaker 1: be doing that. On the other hand, there were the

627
00:42:50,960 --> 00:42:56,560
Speaker 1: ballistics discoveries. Here's Bureau of Criminal Investigation agent Ryan Scheiterer

628
00:42:56,760 --> 00:42:59,600
Speaker 1: testifying in court that shell casings found in the Wagnus

629
00:42:59,640 --> 00:43:02,880
Speaker 1: proper match the ones found at the Rodents crime scenes.

630
00:43:04,000 --> 00:43:07,160
Speaker 1: We recovered twenty two caliber shell casings, and where we

631
00:43:07,320 --> 00:43:10,320
Speaker 1: recovered those which at two sixty Peterson Road, which was

632
00:43:10,360 --> 00:43:12,759
Speaker 1: a property that was owned by George Wacker and his

633
00:43:12,880 --> 00:43:16,800
Speaker 1: brother Jake. And were those shell casings submitted to the

634
00:43:16,920 --> 00:43:20,359
Speaker 1: lab for comparison to the shell casings that had been

635
00:43:20,400 --> 00:43:28,279
Speaker 1: recovered from both Frankie's and Dana's residences. Yes, and what

636
00:43:28,640 --> 00:43:33,160
Speaker 1: was the opinion of the The weapon that fired the

637
00:43:33,239 --> 00:43:36,400
Speaker 1: shell casings at two sixty Pierson Road also fired the

638
00:43:36,640 --> 00:43:41,120
Speaker 1: shell casings at Anna's and Dana's residents as well as

639
00:43:41,160 --> 00:43:45,880
Speaker 1: Frankie and Hannah Gillis residents. So the same firearm had

640
00:43:45,920 --> 00:43:49,040
Speaker 1: been suspired on the same properties. Okay. So the exact

641
00:43:49,120 --> 00:43:51,600
Speaker 1: same gun, not just the same type of gun, the

642
00:43:52,000 --> 00:44:00,520
Speaker 1: same firearms okay. The indictment also includes a reference to

643
00:44:00,640 --> 00:44:03,640
Speaker 1: a specific pair of boots that the Wagner family purchased

644
00:44:03,680 --> 00:44:08,760
Speaker 1: at Walmart and allegedly wore during the murders. The theory

645
00:44:09,160 --> 00:44:12,000
Speaker 1: was that the Wagners were trying to frame Dana Roden's brother,

646
00:44:12,200 --> 00:44:15,240
Speaker 1: James Faniley, who was known to wear this make of boot.

647
00:44:17,040 --> 00:44:20,040
Speaker 1: Sheriff Frieder said the Wagner's plan these killings for months

648
00:44:20,280 --> 00:44:24,960
Speaker 1: studying the Roden's habits. He alleged that they then covered

649
00:44:25,040 --> 00:44:28,719
Speaker 1: up the killings, including stealing the Rodan security footage and

650
00:44:28,880 --> 00:44:34,120
Speaker 1: tampering with their phones. It seems a single minded, cult

651
00:44:34,200 --> 00:44:40,279
Speaker 1: like obsession drove these murders. So we've talked about the

652
00:44:40,400 --> 00:44:43,360
Speaker 1: Wagners and how insulated that family was, and you know,

653
00:44:43,440 --> 00:44:46,880
Speaker 1: the word cult has been thrown around in reference to

654
00:44:47,080 --> 00:44:50,360
Speaker 1: the family. It's hard to imagine a nuclear family of

655
00:44:50,880 --> 00:44:54,160
Speaker 1: a mother, father, and two adult sons who started doing

656
00:44:54,239 --> 00:44:58,520
Speaker 1: reconnaissance on the Roden family, which by all accounts were

657
00:44:58,520 --> 00:45:00,480
Speaker 1: as a family that they were close with, friendly with

658
00:45:00,680 --> 00:45:04,040
Speaker 1: in some way, and months before the murders, allegedly the

659
00:45:04,120 --> 00:45:08,560
Speaker 1: Wagners started to track their comings and goings. And the

660
00:45:08,680 --> 00:45:10,880
Speaker 1: question is why would they do that? I mean, the

661
00:45:10,960 --> 00:45:12,760
Speaker 1: only thing I can think of is that Angela Wagner

662
00:45:12,920 --> 00:45:16,560
Speaker 1: was this obsessed mother who not only wanted to control

663
00:45:16,640 --> 00:45:18,880
Speaker 1: her son Jake, but also all the people in his life.

664
00:45:19,239 --> 00:45:21,879
Speaker 1: By all accounts, it appears that the Rodens were being

665
00:45:22,040 --> 00:45:26,239
Speaker 1: hunted by the Wagner family, and that's unbelievable when you

666
00:45:26,320 --> 00:45:28,960
Speaker 1: really put it into context. The idea of a killer

667
00:45:29,000 --> 00:45:33,440
Speaker 1: family sitting around the kitchen table holding murder meetings is

668
00:45:34,239 --> 00:45:38,080
Speaker 1: impossible to imagine. What came into focus is that there

669
00:45:38,280 --> 00:45:41,759
Speaker 1: was a raging custody dispute between Jake Wagner and his

670
00:45:41,880 --> 00:45:45,200
Speaker 1: former girlfriend, Hannah Mee Rodin over their three year old

671
00:45:45,239 --> 00:45:50,480
Speaker 1: daughter that is speculated as the real motive behind these murders.

672
00:45:52,360 --> 00:45:55,439
Speaker 1: They would travel back and forth between Hannah's mother's house

673
00:45:55,640 --> 00:45:59,120
Speaker 1: and Jake's family's house, and they would live as a

674
00:45:59,200 --> 00:46:01,680
Speaker 1: family a few weeks at a time in each home.

675
00:46:02,000 --> 00:46:03,600
Speaker 1: And for everyone who knew them, they said that the

676
00:46:03,640 --> 00:46:05,880
Speaker 1: couple was very happy. They were talking about marriage and

677
00:46:05,920 --> 00:46:09,200
Speaker 1: building a life together until seemingly in March of twenty fifteen,

678
00:46:09,400 --> 00:46:11,440
Speaker 1: they broke up and that's when Hannah started dating a

679
00:46:11,560 --> 00:46:15,759
Speaker 1: new guy, a man named Charlie Gilly, and Jake was devastated.

680
00:46:16,200 --> 00:46:18,959
Speaker 1: Jake was pressuring Hannah to sign over full custody, something

681
00:46:19,040 --> 00:46:21,360
Speaker 1: she adamantly did not want to do so. In the

682
00:46:21,440 --> 00:46:24,680
Speaker 1: summer of twenty fifteen, when Hannah wrote in announced that

683
00:46:24,800 --> 00:46:27,800
Speaker 1: she was pregnant with a new child, Jake Wagner was

684
00:46:27,880 --> 00:46:30,040
Speaker 1: adamant that he was the dad of this kid, and

685
00:46:30,400 --> 00:46:32,480
Speaker 1: he was desperate to prove it, so much so that

686
00:46:32,600 --> 00:46:34,479
Speaker 1: he went to the hospital when the baby was born

687
00:46:34,680 --> 00:46:37,399
Speaker 1: and checked for a Wagner family trait In the tow,

688
00:46:38,239 --> 00:46:42,840
Speaker 1: and we know that just days after Hannah was murdered,

689
00:46:43,120 --> 00:46:45,800
Speaker 1: the Wagner family filed for custody of not only Jake's

690
00:46:45,800 --> 00:46:48,000
Speaker 1: three year old daughter, but also the newborn baby. So

691
00:46:48,680 --> 00:46:52,600
Speaker 1: it's clear that this family had plans to raise both

692
00:46:52,719 --> 00:46:55,600
Speaker 1: children as their own. As you'll hear in season three,

693
00:46:55,960 --> 00:46:59,200
Speaker 1: there's a lot more contexts to Jake's relationship with Hannah

694
00:46:59,560 --> 00:47:02,840
Speaker 1: and what his state of mind was around the murders

695
00:47:02,920 --> 00:47:05,080
Speaker 1: and before the murders in terms of moving on and

696
00:47:05,280 --> 00:47:09,200
Speaker 1: how he felt about her. The Wagners wanted custody over

697
00:47:09,360 --> 00:47:14,560
Speaker 1: Jake and Hannah's child at all costs, but was that

698
00:47:14,680 --> 00:47:18,080
Speaker 1: possibly enough to justify a wholescale slaughter of another family.

699
00:47:19,239 --> 00:47:22,440
Speaker 1: It seemed Jake Wagner was highly distraught over having lost

700
00:47:22,520 --> 00:47:27,160
Speaker 1: hannahme Roden here is an anonymous Wagner source. He was

701
00:47:27,200 --> 00:47:30,200
Speaker 1: trying very hard to make sure that they got back together.

702
00:47:31,080 --> 00:47:33,960
Speaker 1: He still wanted to be with her. He was trying

703
00:47:34,080 --> 00:47:37,680
Speaker 1: to get get back with her just everything that he could.

704
00:47:38,239 --> 00:47:41,440
Speaker 1: On top of the breakup, Hannah was also allegedly withholding

705
00:47:41,480 --> 00:47:44,760
Speaker 1: their daughter from Jake. There was a custody battle. Hannah

706
00:47:44,880 --> 00:47:48,719
Speaker 1: wasn't allowing Jake to see her or any of the

707
00:47:48,840 --> 00:47:52,000
Speaker 1: family to see her, and so it kind of just

708
00:47:52,360 --> 00:47:55,719
Speaker 1: got out of hand at that point. It just set

709
00:47:55,840 --> 00:48:00,640
Speaker 1: him off to the point where Jake because he had

710
00:48:00,760 --> 00:48:04,000
Speaker 1: made the comment a couple of times, I mean, and

711
00:48:04,120 --> 00:48:06,080
Speaker 1: I had told a couple of people's about this. I mean,

712
00:48:06,200 --> 00:48:08,120
Speaker 1: he had made the comments, you know that he was

713
00:48:08,280 --> 00:48:13,960
Speaker 1: going to to kill her, and he told her that,

714
00:48:14,280 --> 00:48:16,759
Speaker 1: you know, He's like, I'm going to I'm going to

715
00:48:16,840 --> 00:48:19,080
Speaker 1: have to kill you. Like you're not going You're not

716
00:48:19,160 --> 00:48:21,719
Speaker 1: gonna let me see the baby, then you know you're

717
00:48:21,800 --> 00:48:24,120
Speaker 1: not gonna have her. And I'm like, Jake, you can't

718
00:48:24,320 --> 00:48:28,759
Speaker 1: say those things. Please just chill out. And of course,

719
00:48:28,800 --> 00:48:31,040
Speaker 1: you know, nobody ever really thinks like, oh my god,

720
00:48:31,200 --> 00:48:34,160
Speaker 1: he's actually going to consider that. I mean, he was

721
00:48:34,239 --> 00:48:39,839
Speaker 1: just completely out of his mind. It really really upset him.

722
00:48:41,920 --> 00:48:46,360
Speaker 1: The Wagners had allegedly orchestrated another ruthless custody battle once before.

723
00:48:47,880 --> 00:48:50,359
Speaker 1: Jake's brother, George Wagner, had a child with a woman

724
00:48:50,400 --> 00:48:55,480
Speaker 1: named Tabitha, and when they split up, accusmaer George Wagner

725
00:48:55,680 --> 00:48:59,359
Speaker 1: and his mother, Angela Wagner, blocked Tabitha from seeing her son.

726
00:49:00,640 --> 00:49:06,160
Speaker 1: Here's Tabitha's sister, Christina Tabby, like whenever she would try

727
00:49:06,200 --> 00:49:08,080
Speaker 1: to reach out to George, like hey, can I come

728
00:49:08,239 --> 00:49:12,120
Speaker 1: visit my son? And Angela would get on there and

729
00:49:12,280 --> 00:49:16,319
Speaker 1: be like, oh, he's not your son anymore. Would tell

730
00:49:16,400 --> 00:49:20,000
Speaker 1: Tabby like, oh, you might have gave bertilin, but I'm

731
00:49:20,120 --> 00:49:24,239
Speaker 1: his real mother because I take care of e and

732
00:49:24,760 --> 00:49:30,560
Speaker 1: all these just nasty things. At one point, accused murderer

733
00:49:30,640 --> 00:49:34,080
Speaker 1: Angela Wagner even threatened Tabitha and ran her out of town.

734
00:49:35,440 --> 00:49:39,719
Speaker 1: Here's court testimony about the incident. Eventually there was a

735
00:49:39,800 --> 00:49:42,040
Speaker 1: comment by Angela that she was going to kill Tabitha,

736
00:49:42,120 --> 00:49:45,240
Speaker 1: so she fled to a gas station and ultimately never returned.

737
00:49:45,640 --> 00:49:48,879
Speaker 1: And actually specifically, she first hit on the property until

738
00:49:49,040 --> 00:49:54,279
Speaker 1: nightfall and then drove to a gas station and neither

739
00:49:54,440 --> 00:49:56,720
Speaker 1: escape that way and never went back after that. Correct.

740
00:50:00,000 --> 00:50:02,239
Speaker 1: And Yet the idea that the Wagoners would resolve a

741
00:50:02,320 --> 00:50:06,040
Speaker 1: custody issue in such a ruthless fashion is confounding. I

742
00:50:06,120 --> 00:50:09,360
Speaker 1: don't think anybody would believe that a family could have

743
00:50:09,600 --> 00:50:14,160
Speaker 1: put together such a tactical hit on another family that

744
00:50:14,239 --> 00:50:18,080
Speaker 1: they had created life with. It's still too difficult to accept, it,

745
00:50:18,200 --> 00:50:22,640
Speaker 1: too hard to believe. I'm Carol Fisher and I'm hosting

746
00:50:22,719 --> 00:50:25,840
Speaker 1: a podcast called The girl Friends. Back in the nineteen

747
00:50:25,960 --> 00:50:28,719
Speaker 1: nineties in Las Vegas, a few of us dated the

748
00:50:28,800 --> 00:50:34,759
Speaker 1: most eligible bachelor in town, Bob. He spoke several languages,

749
00:50:35,000 --> 00:50:39,960
Speaker 1: he did medical missionary work, and he was Jewish. He

750
00:50:40,200 --> 00:50:44,560
Speaker 1: was perfect on paper, but he wasn't. He really wasn't.

751
00:50:44,920 --> 00:50:48,040
Speaker 1: He shouted and to the point that she went unconscious.

752
00:50:48,480 --> 00:50:52,520
Speaker 1: Bob could lie about anything, but only takes the one

753
00:50:52,640 --> 00:50:56,560
Speaker 1: time when somebody ends up dead. Unfortunately for Bob, us

754
00:50:56,640 --> 00:50:59,480
Speaker 1: girlfriends know how to fight back. I wanted him to

755
00:50:59,600 --> 00:51:02,920
Speaker 1: pay for his crime. He needed to be put to justice.

756
00:51:03,160 --> 00:51:04,719
Speaker 1: I'll be honest with you. If I saw him right now,

757
00:51:04,719 --> 00:51:07,000
Speaker 1: I'd spit on him. I would call him and I

758
00:51:07,120 --> 00:51:09,879
Speaker 1: would say, I know you killed my sister. I will

759
00:51:10,000 --> 00:51:12,920
Speaker 1: always hound you and haunt you. You can listen to

760
00:51:13,000 --> 00:51:17,560
Speaker 1: The Girlfriends on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever

761
00:51:17,680 --> 00:51:21,480
Speaker 1: you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Delia Wild and I

762
00:51:21,560 --> 00:51:24,000
Speaker 1: want to invite you to listen to my newest podcast,

763
00:51:25,760 --> 00:51:28,480
Speaker 1: The ass to make up Our bodies have already existed

764
00:51:28,520 --> 00:51:30,520
Speaker 1: in the true styles. It's called The Oh My God

765
00:51:30,640 --> 00:51:34,279
Speaker 1: Particles Show or OMGPS for short. How you like me

766
00:51:34,440 --> 00:51:37,279
Speaker 1: always wondering about the universe, like what the universe is

767
00:51:37,320 --> 00:51:40,800
Speaker 1: made of? What is in the atmospheres of alien panics?

768
00:51:40,880 --> 00:51:42,799
Speaker 1: And you know, how are we even here to even

769
00:51:42,880 --> 00:51:46,799
Speaker 1: ask those questions? So road trip I want to get

770
00:51:46,880 --> 00:51:50,920
Speaker 1: some answers directly from researchers at the Large Hadron Collider.

771
00:51:51,080 --> 00:51:55,160
Speaker 1: We're colliding particles with energies that naturally existed in the universe.

772
00:51:55,320 --> 00:51:57,920
Speaker 1: Was about a trillion of the second old. I found

773
00:51:58,120 --> 00:52:02,480
Speaker 1: scientists from all over the world. Everybody is working together

774
00:52:02,719 --> 00:52:05,960
Speaker 1: to get their experiment working. I've got to darct, a

775
00:52:06,040 --> 00:52:11,160
Speaker 1: brilliant astrophysicist who collaborated with Brian May, the guitarist from Queen.

776
00:52:11,640 --> 00:52:13,960
Speaker 1: Listen to the Oh My God Particle Show on the

777
00:52:14,080 --> 00:52:17,359
Speaker 1: I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get

778
00:52:17,440 --> 00:52:22,239
Speaker 1: your podcasts. Hello, and welcome to Bad Manners. This is

779
00:52:22,280 --> 00:52:25,279
Speaker 1: the podcast that takes you inside Britain's stately homes and

780
00:52:25,480 --> 00:52:29,440
Speaker 1: tells all the tales the guide books don't. My name

781
00:52:29,560 --> 00:52:32,480
Speaker 1: is Tom Horton and I'll be your host. Britain is

782
00:52:32,880 --> 00:52:37,240
Speaker 1: riddled with the big houses, from crumbling castles, massive mansions

783
00:52:37,480 --> 00:52:41,160
Speaker 1: and stately piles bigger than Buckingham Palace. As a comedian,

784
00:52:41,200 --> 00:52:43,080
Speaker 1: I'm not really bothered about the facts and figures. I

785
00:52:43,239 --> 00:52:45,280
Speaker 1: just want the juicy stuff. So I'm on a mission

786
00:52:45,320 --> 00:52:49,120
Speaker 1: to find out the frightening, filthy and downright jaw dropping

787
00:52:49,160 --> 00:52:52,000
Speaker 1: stories of these stately homes and the people in them.

788
00:52:53,080 --> 00:52:57,200
Speaker 1: This podcast ventures deep inside some of Britain's most incredible

789
00:52:57,280 --> 00:53:01,720
Speaker 1: and outrageous buildings to spill the tea on the scandless, scary,

790
00:53:02,200 --> 00:53:05,680
Speaker 1: shocking and hilarious tales. So if you want to get

791
00:53:05,760 --> 00:53:10,120
Speaker 1: historically horrid, royally raucous and down to dirty, look now

792
00:53:10,239 --> 00:53:14,200
Speaker 1: for listen to Bad Manners on the iHeartRadio app, Apple

793
00:53:14,280 --> 00:53:20,279
Speaker 1: Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Everybody, we know

794
00:53:20,440 --> 00:53:22,840
Speaker 1: there are a ton of podcasts out there. Well, we

795
00:53:22,960 --> 00:53:24,920
Speaker 1: have one we would love for you to check out.

796
00:53:25,000 --> 00:53:27,560
Speaker 1: It is called The pen Pals Podcast with Daniel Van

797
00:53:27,640 --> 00:53:31,160
Speaker 1: Kirk and Rory Scoville. We are both stand up comedians

798
00:53:31,200 --> 00:53:33,759
Speaker 1: where actors were writers, but now most of all, we

799
00:53:33,880 --> 00:53:36,600
Speaker 1: are your pen pals. Every single episode we get two

800
00:53:36,960 --> 00:53:40,440
Speaker 1: letters that we read from our listeners, our new pen pals.

801
00:53:40,560 --> 00:53:42,520
Speaker 1: It can be about anything going on in their life

802
00:53:42,600 --> 00:53:45,320
Speaker 1: and sometimes we're also joined by guests like Will Ferrell,

803
00:53:45,400 --> 00:53:46,839
Speaker 1: I'm gonna bring you up in front of the group

804
00:53:46,880 --> 00:53:48,400
Speaker 1: and I'm gonna punch you as hard as I can

805
00:53:48,440 --> 00:53:51,120
Speaker 1: in the stomach. Rose Burn, Well, this is West Hollywood.

806
00:53:51,200 --> 00:53:57,280
Speaker 1: We keep it clean. Jo considered, Brian, I'm just showing

807
00:53:57,320 --> 00:54:00,360
Speaker 1: you that my mind is quick, if not that funny.

808
00:54:00,400 --> 00:54:03,439
Speaker 1: And Mandy Moore, we're all crossing the line together. Listen

809
00:54:03,480 --> 00:54:05,839
Speaker 1: to the pen Pals podcast on Will Ferrell's Big Money

810
00:54:05,880 --> 00:54:09,440
Speaker 1: Players Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever

811
00:54:09,560 --> 00:54:12,160
Speaker 1: you get your podcasts, and crely your new pen Pals

812
00:54:12,200 --> 00:54:20,640
Speaker 1: Daniel van Kirk and Rory Scobel. Let's stop here for

813
00:54:20,760 --> 00:54:26,759
Speaker 1: another break. Before the killings, the Wagners were trying to

814
00:54:26,880 --> 00:54:31,400
Speaker 1: coerce victim hannahme Roden into signing forged documents seating custody

815
00:54:31,440 --> 00:54:34,279
Speaker 1: of her daughter to Angela Wagner in the event of

816
00:54:34,360 --> 00:54:39,920
Speaker 1: Hannah's death. The forged custody documents that have been discussed

817
00:54:39,960 --> 00:54:43,719
Speaker 1: in this case, they were declaration documents, and it was

818
00:54:43,800 --> 00:54:46,879
Speaker 1: stated in Rita Newcomb's case, because she was the one

819
00:54:46,960 --> 00:54:50,759
Speaker 1: accused of charged with forgery or obstruction, it said that

820
00:54:51,040 --> 00:54:55,200
Speaker 1: it was declarations for the children of Hannah Roden. George

821
00:54:55,280 --> 00:54:59,920
Speaker 1: the Fourth and Jake. And so basically these documents designated

822
00:55:00,320 --> 00:55:04,320
Speaker 1: a guardian should any of them die, and these documents

823
00:55:04,680 --> 00:55:08,560
Speaker 1: had been signed and notarized nineteen days before the murders,

824
00:55:08,840 --> 00:55:12,040
Speaker 1: and it designated the children go to Angela should any

825
00:55:12,120 --> 00:55:15,040
Speaker 1: of them die. That's just one of those puzzle pieces

826
00:55:15,120 --> 00:55:18,440
Speaker 1: that I felt like showed that Angela she may have

827
00:55:18,520 --> 00:55:21,000
Speaker 1: been the driving force here since she was the one

828
00:55:21,080 --> 00:55:23,920
Speaker 1: that had the Facebook message that's been referenced in court

829
00:55:24,040 --> 00:55:26,200
Speaker 1: that showed that Hannah said they'd have to kill me

830
00:55:26,360 --> 00:55:28,840
Speaker 1: first before I gave up my child, and she showed

831
00:55:28,880 --> 00:55:32,360
Speaker 1: that message to Jake. This paper says if Hannah is

832
00:55:32,400 --> 00:55:39,560
Speaker 1: to meet her demise, then Sophia should go to Jake corrrect. Okay,

833
00:55:41,160 --> 00:55:46,120
Speaker 1: But if Jake meets his demise and his child goes

834
00:55:46,239 --> 00:55:52,759
Speaker 1: to his mom, correct, not to Hannah. Correct. Then. On

835
00:55:52,920 --> 00:55:56,000
Speaker 1: April twenty first, twenty twenty one, on the five year

836
00:55:56,040 --> 00:55:59,040
Speaker 1: anniversary of the murder, and in a case where nothing

837
00:55:59,200 --> 00:56:04,200
Speaker 1: made sense, accused murderer Jake Wagner abruptly pled guilty to

838
00:56:04,360 --> 00:56:09,880
Speaker 1: eight counts of aggravated murder, felony, conspiracy, unlawful possession of

839
00:56:09,920 --> 00:56:14,360
Speaker 1: a dangerous ordinance, and tampering with evidence. The State of

840
00:56:14,400 --> 00:56:17,239
Speaker 1: Ohio agreed as part of the guilty plea not to

841
00:56:17,320 --> 00:56:20,600
Speaker 1: seek the death penalty for him or his father, mother,

842
00:56:21,280 --> 00:56:25,040
Speaker 1: or older brother. Here's Stephanie speaking with reporter James Pilcher.

843
00:56:26,440 --> 00:56:28,560
Speaker 1: Is it possible that Jacob could say I was in

844
00:56:28,640 --> 00:56:33,120
Speaker 1: a very controlling environment, My mother, Angela Wagner, controlled us,

845
00:56:33,680 --> 00:56:37,120
Speaker 1: My father was a bully and said I had to

846
00:56:37,239 --> 00:56:41,239
Speaker 1: do these things, and we were coerced into it. Is

847
00:56:41,280 --> 00:56:44,920
Speaker 1: there any value in that even? I mean, that's entirely possible,

848
00:56:45,120 --> 00:56:47,160
Speaker 1: and some of the reporting, that's what we've heard Lee cow.

849
00:56:47,680 --> 00:56:50,160
Speaker 1: The other thing I will say is that maybe they're

850
00:56:50,200 --> 00:56:52,440
Speaker 1: going after bigger game than Jake, and they figured we'll

851
00:56:52,480 --> 00:56:54,399
Speaker 1: cut this deal. Now, he'll give us what we want

852
00:56:54,920 --> 00:56:57,120
Speaker 1: and then we can go get the mom and the dad.

853
00:56:57,600 --> 00:57:00,440
Speaker 1: But clearly they were going after the people who auted it.

854
00:57:00,880 --> 00:57:04,600
Speaker 1: This was not Jake's idea, right, or at least not

855
00:57:04,680 --> 00:57:08,040
Speaker 1: according to prosecutors. This was a family coming together. That's

856
00:57:08,080 --> 00:57:10,960
Speaker 1: what the prosecutors are after is that, Okay, we get

857
00:57:11,080 --> 00:57:13,879
Speaker 1: Jake to help us, we get Jake to plead out.

858
00:57:13,960 --> 00:57:16,880
Speaker 1: It shows that this really did happen. Now we can

859
00:57:16,920 --> 00:57:21,960
Speaker 1: go after the people who are actually planned it. Jake,

860
00:57:22,000 --> 00:57:24,960
Speaker 1: who admitted to shooting five of the eight victims, agreed

861
00:57:25,000 --> 00:57:28,680
Speaker 1: to cooperate with prosecutors and testify against his family members.

862
00:57:29,520 --> 00:57:32,840
Speaker 1: He knows he will die in prison. Do you think

863
00:57:32,920 --> 00:57:35,800
Speaker 1: Jake is lying about being personally responsible for five of

864
00:57:35,880 --> 00:57:38,120
Speaker 1: the eight? I don't know what his incentive to lie

865
00:57:38,160 --> 00:57:40,360
Speaker 1: about that is. I mean, is he that afraid of

866
00:57:40,400 --> 00:57:43,840
Speaker 1: the death penalty. The economics of that equation just does

867
00:57:43,960 --> 00:57:46,560
Speaker 1: not make sense to me. Where he would openly confess

868
00:57:46,640 --> 00:57:50,400
Speaker 1: to murdering five people. Probably the worst act you could

869
00:57:50,440 --> 00:57:53,080
Speaker 1: commit as a human is taking the life of another,

870
00:57:53,280 --> 00:57:55,480
Speaker 1: and he did that five times over. I think we

871
00:57:55,560 --> 00:57:58,000
Speaker 1: got a good idea of what happened here. The charges

872
00:57:58,040 --> 00:58:02,360
Speaker 1: against Frederico Wagner were dismissed. She maintained her faith throughout

873
00:58:02,400 --> 00:58:06,600
Speaker 1: the ordeal, even as her son, accused murderer, Billy Wagner,

874
00:58:06,760 --> 00:58:10,200
Speaker 1: and his family were charged with horrible crimes. Trust in

875
00:58:10,280 --> 00:58:12,400
Speaker 1: the Lord with all your heart, lean not to your

876
00:58:12,440 --> 00:58:16,600
Speaker 1: own understanding, in all your ways. Acknowledge Him and he

877
00:58:16,760 --> 00:58:20,080
Speaker 1: will direct your path. And as my attorney will tell you,

878
00:58:20,640 --> 00:58:23,200
Speaker 1: it was dismissed because I was innocent. They had no

879
00:58:23,280 --> 00:58:29,880
Speaker 1: evidence against me. I never lied about anything. The investigation

880
00:58:29,960 --> 00:58:32,840
Speaker 1: had a snag when Sheriff Frieder was arrested on felony

881
00:58:33,000 --> 00:58:36,360
Speaker 1: charges not related to the case. There had been criticism

882
00:58:36,400 --> 00:58:39,440
Speaker 1: about how Sheriff Frieder handled evidence in the road massacre,

883
00:58:40,200 --> 00:58:44,640
Speaker 1: but these new charges conflict of interest, saft in office,

884
00:58:44,760 --> 00:58:48,600
Speaker 1: and tampering with evidence stripped him of his badge and office.

885
00:58:51,160 --> 00:58:53,960
Speaker 1: I stand here before you today to take accountability for

886
00:58:54,160 --> 00:58:57,800
Speaker 1: my actions. Took that responsibility for my conduct, I said,

887
00:58:57,800 --> 00:59:02,680
Speaker 1: Sheriff of Ohio. I should excuse me. Everything that I've

888
00:59:02,720 --> 00:59:07,360
Speaker 1: worked for professionally and honorably for twenty five years was

889
00:59:07,400 --> 00:59:14,280
Speaker 1: stripped to me, with nobody good blame but myself. If

890
00:59:14,320 --> 00:59:16,000
Speaker 1: I could go back and change it, I would a

891
00:59:16,120 --> 00:59:22,800
Speaker 1: million times. This is not who I am. Never ever

892
00:59:23,160 --> 00:59:26,320
Speaker 1: did I imagine myself on the defense side of this

893
00:59:26,520 --> 00:59:30,400
Speaker 1: court route that I've spent twenty five years of my

894
00:59:30,560 --> 00:59:35,720
Speaker 1: life in this county in law enforcement. I am a

895
00:59:35,800 --> 00:59:42,240
Speaker 1: good person, made bad decisions and choices I have, and

896
00:59:42,320 --> 00:59:47,080
Speaker 1: I'm now pray that the will mercy on me. According

897
00:59:47,120 --> 00:59:50,520
Speaker 1: to reports, Reader allegedly stole cash sees from drug arress

898
00:59:50,600 --> 00:59:54,040
Speaker 1: to fund a gambling problem. He even blamed his gambling

899
00:59:54,080 --> 00:59:58,040
Speaker 1: addiction on the stresses of investigating the Rodan killings. You know,

900
00:59:58,160 --> 01:00:03,280
Speaker 1: now he's blaming gambling habits on because what he's seen

901
01:00:03,320 --> 01:00:06,960
Speaker 1: in the Rodent crime scenes have haunted him so much

902
01:00:07,000 --> 01:00:09,680
Speaker 1: he couldn't sleep, so he would go gamble one name

903
01:00:09,760 --> 01:00:13,440
Speaker 1: Charlie for thirty years and he's been gambling waved before

904
01:00:13,520 --> 01:00:18,320
Speaker 1: this happened. And that's just that, just to me, shows

905
01:00:18,320 --> 01:00:21,280
Speaker 1: you his character. You know, I'm I'm gonna use the

906
01:00:21,400 --> 01:00:24,080
Speaker 1: death of eight people to try to smooth over that

907
01:00:24,200 --> 01:00:27,120
Speaker 1: I'm still a money off my county in gambling, and

908
01:00:27,360 --> 01:00:32,160
Speaker 1: that is disgusting to me. You're talking about a guy

909
01:00:32,200 --> 01:00:35,200
Speaker 1: who led the Sheriff's office and who for a time,

910
01:00:35,320 --> 01:00:37,920
Speaker 1: a moment in time when this first happened, these murders

911
01:00:37,960 --> 01:00:41,560
Speaker 1: first happened, who was also leading that investigation until the

912
01:00:41,680 --> 01:00:44,080
Speaker 1: state came in and took it over. You just said

913
01:00:44,120 --> 01:00:46,040
Speaker 1: back and go, man, let's see where this ends. I mean,

914
01:00:46,160 --> 01:00:49,280
Speaker 1: Pike County has been a crazy ride. So ever since

915
01:00:49,480 --> 01:00:52,160
Speaker 1: the end of April of twenty sixteen, it has been

916
01:00:52,160 --> 01:00:56,920
Speaker 1: an absolutely crazy half a decade there. But despite Sheriffrid's downfall,

917
01:00:57,160 --> 01:01:01,400
Speaker 1: the Wagner's Billie George Jake and Angela remain locked up.

918
01:01:02,200 --> 01:01:06,280
Speaker 1: Jake's mother, Angela, father Billy, and brother George await their

919
01:01:06,320 --> 01:01:10,320
Speaker 1: fate as Jake prepares to testify against them. The Wagners

920
01:01:10,360 --> 01:01:13,200
Speaker 1: are facing three hundred and thirty two thousand files of

921
01:01:13,320 --> 01:01:17,400
Speaker 1: evidence from the prosecution. Will the Wagners remain behind bars?

922
01:01:18,440 --> 01:01:21,280
Speaker 1: And what will Jake reveal about what happened that harrowing

923
01:01:21,440 --> 01:01:29,320
Speaker 1: night in April twenty sixteen. Based on the totality of

924
01:01:29,400 --> 01:01:32,200
Speaker 1: information now known by the state, including the fourth right

925
01:01:32,320 --> 01:01:35,280
Speaker 1: statements of the defendant, we have overwhelming evidence of the

926
01:01:35,400 --> 01:01:38,000
Speaker 1: defendant and the three co defendant numbers of the Feeling

927
01:01:38,480 --> 01:01:41,560
Speaker 1: Farm in fact responsible for planning and carrying out the homicide.

928
01:01:41,880 --> 01:01:44,880
Speaker 1: Jake admitted it in the league evening hours of April

929
01:01:44,960 --> 01:01:48,280
Speaker 1: twenty first, two sixteen into the early morning hours of

930
01:01:48,360 --> 01:01:52,640
Speaker 1: Able twenty second, twenty sixteen, is when they admitted these homicides.

931
01:01:53,040 --> 01:01:57,760
Speaker 1: You think about staring into the eyes of your kin

932
01:01:57,880 --> 01:02:02,520
Speaker 1: folks across the room as you're sitting in the dock

933
01:02:02,680 --> 01:02:05,800
Speaker 1: there and you're looking at them straight in the eyes,

934
01:02:06,520 --> 01:02:14,520
Speaker 1: and people that you've spent Thanksgivings with Christmases. You know

935
01:02:15,160 --> 01:02:18,520
Speaker 1: these moments throughout your life and you're looking at them,

936
01:02:19,200 --> 01:02:23,640
Speaker 1: and you're potentially sending them to the proverbial gallows by

937
01:02:23,760 --> 01:02:29,959
Speaker 1: virtue of what you're going to say. Will we figure

938
01:02:29,960 --> 01:02:32,640
Speaker 1: out exactly what happened on the night of April twenty

939
01:02:32,680 --> 01:02:36,760
Speaker 1: first in Piketon? I want to know exactly what happened

940
01:02:37,360 --> 01:02:39,840
Speaker 1: that night? You know, how did they get in the homes?

941
01:02:40,680 --> 01:02:43,440
Speaker 1: We know the end, We've got some idea what happened

942
01:02:43,440 --> 01:02:46,760
Speaker 1: in the middle, But I think I want to know

943
01:02:47,320 --> 01:02:50,520
Speaker 1: about the beginning. You know, was this truly about custody?

944
01:02:50,960 --> 01:02:53,720
Speaker 1: You know, I would just like to know, you know,

945
01:02:53,840 --> 01:02:57,600
Speaker 1: exactly why from Jake Wagner, When did the switch flip

946
01:02:58,040 --> 01:03:01,200
Speaker 1: to where the only resolution to whatever was going on

947
01:03:01,520 --> 01:03:04,040
Speaker 1: between him and the Roses at that point was to

948
01:03:04,120 --> 01:03:07,439
Speaker 1: go and kill them all? It makes absolutely no sense.

949
01:03:08,240 --> 01:03:11,479
Speaker 1: And was Angela the mastermind behind it all? I think

950
01:03:11,680 --> 01:03:15,480
Speaker 1: it was still Angela behind the scene, control of everything

951
01:03:15,640 --> 01:03:17,840
Speaker 1: went in a little public master. What will happen in

952
01:03:17,880 --> 01:03:23,640
Speaker 1: the meantime is anyone's guess. Will there be another Plea deal?

953
01:03:23,720 --> 01:03:26,560
Speaker 1: It'll be interesting to see where this case goes from here.

954
01:03:26,680 --> 01:03:29,120
Speaker 1: It's the pike to massacre. Who knows. You never know

955
01:03:29,200 --> 01:03:32,640
Speaker 1: where this is going next. This season, we have a

956
01:03:32,760 --> 01:03:36,840
Speaker 1: much fuller picture of who the Wagner family was prior

957
01:03:37,000 --> 01:03:40,360
Speaker 1: to this and how they became the monsters we now

958
01:03:40,480 --> 01:03:42,720
Speaker 1: know them to be. We've really started to learn more

959
01:03:42,840 --> 01:03:46,080
Speaker 1: about the Wagner family, not only the lives that they led,

960
01:03:46,160 --> 01:03:49,440
Speaker 1: but also their motivations for the crimes they allegedly committed.

961
01:03:50,960 --> 01:03:54,320
Speaker 1: Just when we thought it couldn't get any stranger or darker,

962
01:03:55,760 --> 01:04:01,040
Speaker 1: it has. All will be revealed on Season three of

963
01:04:01,160 --> 01:04:07,720
Speaker 1: The Piketon Massacre. For more information on case photos, follow

964
01:04:07,840 --> 01:04:13,840
Speaker 1: us on Instagram at Katie Underscore Studios. This special episode

965
01:04:13,960 --> 01:04:18,680
Speaker 1: was produced by Stephanie Leidecker, Jeff Shane, Chris Graves, Alan Wheater,

966
01:04:19,000 --> 01:04:23,680
Speaker 1: and me Courtney Armstrong. Editing and sound designed by Jeff Tui,

967
01:04:24,440 --> 01:04:29,560
Speaker 1: music by Jared Aston, audio mixing by Ken Novak. The

968
01:04:29,640 --> 01:04:33,200
Speaker 1: Piketon Massacre is a production of Katie Studios and iHeartRadio.

969
01:04:34,080 --> 01:04:39,120
Speaker 1: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

970
01:04:39,400 --> 01:04:46,360
Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. I'm Carol

971
01:04:46,440 --> 01:04:49,560
Speaker 1: Fisher and I'm hosting a podcast called The girl Friends.

972
01:04:50,120 --> 01:04:53,560
Speaker 1: It's Las Vegas, it's the nineteen nineties, and it is

973
01:04:53,680 --> 01:04:57,720
Speaker 1: time to find a husband. There were four Jewish doctors

974
01:04:57,960 --> 01:05:01,680
Speaker 1: who were felt to be eligible bachelor's. One of them

975
01:05:02,080 --> 01:05:05,920
Speaker 1: was of the spot Baronmout. On paper, he was perfect,

976
01:05:06,320 --> 01:05:10,280
Speaker 1: but in reality, this guy's a whacko. He shouted to

977
01:05:10,440 --> 01:05:13,600
Speaker 1: the point she went unconscious. I would call him and

978
01:05:13,760 --> 01:05:16,400
Speaker 1: I would say, I know you killed my sister. You

979
01:05:16,480 --> 01:05:20,160
Speaker 1: can listen to the girlfriends on the iHeartRadio app, Apple

980
01:05:20,240 --> 01:05:24,200
Speaker 1: podcast or wherever you get your podcasts. So how does

981
01:05:24,200 --> 01:05:27,280
Speaker 1: a half American, half Nicaraguan party girl from New Orleans.

982
01:05:27,480 --> 01:05:31,040
Speaker 1: There's absolutely no journalism experience, right, the biggest story of

983
01:05:31,120 --> 01:05:34,640
Speaker 1: the eighties, That's what journalista is all about. I'm a

984
01:05:34,760 --> 01:05:39,760
Speaker 1: woman wife beater T shirt, not wearing a brawl curses

985
01:05:39,800 --> 01:05:43,520
Speaker 1: like a sailor. I got balls bigger than any man.

986
01:05:43,960 --> 01:05:47,080
Speaker 1: Dan Rather used to call me his secret weapon. Listen

987
01:05:47,160 --> 01:05:50,280
Speaker 1: to Journalist to every Tuesday on the iHeartRadio app, Apple

988
01:05:50,360 --> 01:05:54,600
Speaker 1: podcast or wherever you get your podcasts. They say history

989
01:05:54,760 --> 01:05:57,400
Speaker 1: is written by the victors, but you know what they

990
01:05:57,560 --> 01:06:01,000
Speaker 1: left out A hell of a lot of juicy stuff. Ah.

991
01:06:01,160 --> 01:06:04,240
Speaker 1: We all know who invented that, right, and we'll think again.

992
01:06:04,480 --> 01:06:07,680
Speaker 1: Truth is Alexander Graham. Bell stole the idea for the

993
01:06:07,800 --> 01:06:10,560
Speaker 1: telephone and then claimed it as his own. We're going

994
01:06:10,600 --> 01:06:13,720
Speaker 1: to uncover the forgotten pieces of history you didn't know

995
01:06:14,040 --> 01:06:16,560
Speaker 1: you need it to know. Listen to the Backstory with

996
01:06:16,680 --> 01:06:19,840
Speaker 1: me Patty Steele, twice a week on the iHeartRadio app,

997
01:06:19,880 --> 01:06:23,840
Speaker 1: Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hello, Hello,

998
01:06:24,080 --> 01:06:28,000
Speaker 1: Mountain Globo. Here. This year on Revisionist History, we're tackling

999
01:06:28,080 --> 01:06:32,280
Speaker 1: more ambitious stories than ever, from how to fix education

1000
01:06:32,640 --> 01:06:36,080
Speaker 1: to what Americans get completely wrong about guns. We're debating

1001
01:06:36,120 --> 01:06:39,960
Speaker 1: with teenagers handing out awards and hunting for the perfect

1002
01:06:40,200 --> 01:06:44,560
Speaker 1: medical raccoon. This is, after all, a podcast about you

1003
01:06:44,600 --> 01:06:49,200
Speaker 1: overlooked and misunderstood. Find Revisionist History on the iHeartRadio app,

1004
01:06:49,360 --> 01:06:53,240
Speaker 1: Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.