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Speaker 1: Trust me.

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Speaker 2: Trust me. I'm like a squat person.

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Speaker 1: I've never lived.

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Speaker 3: To you.

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Speaker 4: If you think.

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Speaker 5: That one person has all the answers, don't.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to trust me.

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Speaker 5: The podcast about Cold's extreme belief and the abuse of

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Speaker 5: power from two beings who've actually experienced it. I am

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Speaker 5: Lola Blanc and I am Megan Elizabeth. Today, our guest

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Speaker 5: is Killian Allenbacher. He is a visual effects artist in

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Speaker 5: Los Angeles who grew up in a new Age Christian

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Speaker 5: organization called the Church Universal and Triumphant. He's going to

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Speaker 5: tell us about growing up believing that the world was

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Speaker 5: ending very soon, living with a group that was building

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Speaker 5: elaborate bomb shelters, enormous bomb shelters on a compound in Montana,

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Speaker 5: working on the Colts Farm as a child, and following

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Speaker 5: the leader, Elizabeth Claire, prophet who claimed to be in

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Speaker 5: communication with spiritual beings called the Masters.

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Speaker 4: We're also going to talk about the red flags he

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Speaker 4: began to see, how his dad taught him to question everything,

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Speaker 4: and how these critical thinking skills helped him realize he

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Speaker 4: didn't want to be involved anymore.

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Speaker 1: When he was still just a kid. We'll hear all

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Speaker 1: about that very soon.

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Speaker 4: Yes, we will.

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Speaker 5: Why did I turn into a cheesy into TV host there?

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Speaker 5: I don't know, welcome Maybe that's my true self.

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Speaker 4: I kind of feel like that. I feel like this

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Speaker 4: is really really authentic for you.

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Speaker 1: Lola, God, damn, it is this who I am?

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Speaker 4: You want to call? You want a cult? Oh my god?

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Speaker 1: What cult did I win? Don't make me think that.

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Speaker 4: Ye can't.

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Speaker 5: Hey, so Megan, what's the cult? Dos thing that happened

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Speaker 5: to you this week?

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Speaker 4: I have been noticing in myself a tendency to thinking

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Speaker 4: really in kind of fear circles. Killian's story this week

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Speaker 4: kind of encapsulates what my brain is doing right now.

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Speaker 4: Like I'm like everything feels dangerous. I need to get

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Speaker 4: out of here. I need to go live in some

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Speaker 4: town with like ten people. And I don't know why

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Speaker 4: that's I mean, I guess I do know why. We

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Speaker 4: live in a mad world. But just a lot of

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Speaker 4: different little pieces of information we're thrown into my head

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Speaker 4: this week that all scared me really badly. And now

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Speaker 4: I'm in a total fair place and I want to

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Speaker 4: go hide.

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Speaker 1: Wait, like, what can you give me?

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Speaker 4: Well, somebody was saying that I don't even remember what country,

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Speaker 4: but it was on CNN that they've made some missile

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Speaker 4: that'll just make a giant tsunami kill everyone on the

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Speaker 4: West coast.

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Speaker 1: Oh dope, Yeah.

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Speaker 4: That one got on my got in my head a

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Speaker 4: little bed, you know, stuff like that. Yeah, it's just

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Speaker 4: fearful shit that Usually I'm like, okay, like I guess

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Speaker 4: then I'll just die. But for some reason, this week,

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Speaker 4: it's making me want to go live on a farm

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Speaker 4: and collect a bunch of weapons.

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Speaker 5: It's so hard to find the balance between staying informed

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Speaker 5: and living in just a constant state of terror because

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Speaker 5: of the news. Yes, I still have not figured out

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Speaker 5: this fucking balance, dude. So my own only thing that

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Speaker 5: I know how to do is just to stop looking

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Speaker 5: at it. Yeah, which then I feel like a dumb

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Speaker 5: idiot who doesn't know what's going on.

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Speaker 1: But I'm happier, right, you know. I mean, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I know.

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Speaker 5: Don't get me started on climate change shit, because every

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Speaker 5: time I look at climate change news, I'm like, what's

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Speaker 5: the point of living? Yeah, you know, yeah, we just

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Speaker 5: got to be present in our lives and hope for

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Speaker 5: the best.

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Speaker 1: Do the thing. Oh my god, I don't know, I

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Speaker 1: hear you though, I feel like this week.

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Speaker 5: Almost everyone I know has been in a really like

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Speaker 5: a high state of agitation this week for some reason.

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Speaker 1: I don't know what's different about.

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Speaker 5: We've been in a pandemic for over a year now,

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Speaker 5: so I don't know why this week is different, and

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Speaker 5: maybe it's just a coincidence. It's just happens to be

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Speaker 5: my friends. But I'm agitated. Yeah, I'm on high alert.

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Speaker 5: You're on high alert.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, what do we do?

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Speaker 1: Drugs? The answer is drugs. You've got it, ding ding ding.

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Speaker 4: Okay, what's the cultiest thing than that happened to you

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Speaker 4: this week?

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Speaker 1: I don't know.

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Speaker 5: I guess probably something pertaining to my all female horror

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Speaker 5: collective Fatale Collective. Yeah, honestly, it's it's mostly good things.

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Speaker 5: It's like, I'm very excited we've brought on a new member,

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Speaker 5: and then we've just brought on I think one more member,

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Speaker 5: and they're fucking amazing. I can't remember how to what

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Speaker 5: extent I've described this, but we are an all female

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Speaker 5: horror filmmaking collective and we are currently working on our

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Speaker 5: future anthology, so we've had to add new people into

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Speaker 5: the mix, which is amazing. But as we add new people,

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Speaker 5: I'm like, oh, well, I am.

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Speaker 1: Obsessed with us.

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Speaker 5: Other people like want to join us, Like I put

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Speaker 5: out a call and they got like fifty messages about it.

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Speaker 5: And you know, there's like natural hierarchy sort of form,

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Speaker 5: and we're actually trying to figure that out right now,

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Speaker 5: so it doesn't fall too much on any one person.

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Speaker 5: But I could see how quickly I could join the

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Speaker 5: cult of Fatale.

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Speaker 1: I'm just saying. I'm just saying, it's a it's a

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Speaker 1: dope ass if there's going to be one. I don't know, man.

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Speaker 5: Group dynamics are really really tricky because it's like, how

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Speaker 5: do you as we grow and ideally get more and

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Speaker 5: more women involved, how do we navigate that so that

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Speaker 5: it's very democratic but also organized, Like there still needs

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Speaker 5: to be some leadership, There still needs to be some organization.

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Speaker 5: So yeah, figuring that out and structuring that so that

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Speaker 5: we don't actually become a cult.

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Speaker 1: It's been really interesting.

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Speaker 4: I love this, like laying this groundwork before, but you just, yeah,

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Speaker 4: that's smart, dude.

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Speaker 5: You have to though, because otherwise communication breaks down so fast.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, it does.

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Speaker 5: You know, like if one person emerges as a leader,

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Speaker 5: then other people get resentful, and it's just like, it's

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Speaker 5: really really complicated, but ultimately I think it's going to be.

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Speaker 1: Really really cool.

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Speaker 5: And if we're in the category of cult in any way,

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Speaker 5: it'll be on the cool as dope as benign version

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Speaker 5: of it.

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Speaker 1: Women I love it Women in horror. Heyo, uh, all right.

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Speaker 4: Well, let's talk to Killian about how his group collective.

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Speaker 1: Went bad, his female horror collective. Yeah, let's do it,

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Speaker 1: all right.

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Speaker 5: Welcome Killian Allenbacher, whose name we are pronouncing the Americanized

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Speaker 5: version of.

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Speaker 1: Yes, Welcome to the show.

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Speaker 5: Thanks so, Killian. So you were in a group called

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Speaker 5: remind Us.

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Speaker 2: Please Church Universal and Triumphant.

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Speaker 1: Church Universal and Triumphant.

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Speaker 4: What a name. I love when they put the words

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Speaker 4: like that in the name.

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Speaker 2: I know, it's a.

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Speaker 1: Whole ass phrase.

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Speaker 2: It's a sentence.

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Speaker 1: Is it triumphant and is it universal?

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Speaker 5: No?

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Speaker 2: I mean they tried.

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Speaker 3: That's actually how my parents found out about it, because I.

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Speaker 2: I was born in Germany and when they went and.

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Speaker 3: Tried to convert people or get people to join the cult,

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Speaker 3: they called it stumping. I don't know if that's a

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Speaker 3: normal term or if that's a term they made up,

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Speaker 3: but they did a stumping trip to Germany, and then

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Speaker 3: my parents were kind of hippies, which most people think

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Speaker 3: is an oxymoron that you can't have German hippies, but

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Speaker 3: my parents were a proof that you can't have German hippies.

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Speaker 3: And so they're always into like alternative things, and you know,

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Speaker 3: all sorts of not weird stuff, but they're into very

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Speaker 3: spiritual stuff. So these people came along and they're like, oh,

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Speaker 3: you know, so they kind of bought into their message,

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Speaker 3: and then they bought into it so much they're like, oh,

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Speaker 3: like one of our friends wants to kind of move

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Speaker 3: his business to the US to kind of grow. So

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Speaker 3: my parents were like, well, let's move to the US,

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Speaker 3: and moved to Los Angeles because that's where the cult

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Speaker 3: was actually located.

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Speaker 2: And then.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so important cult members.

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Speaker 4: What were the stumpers? Like, who were they?

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Speaker 3: I was I think two or three at that point,

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Speaker 3: so I wouldn't know, but it was just essentially it

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Speaker 3: was usually cult leader or like a couple of her

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Speaker 3: close people.

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Speaker 2: This is according to my parents.

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Speaker 3: They would essentially just buy plane tickets as a group

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Speaker 3: and then go like fly all over the world, and

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Speaker 3: even in Germany, they had like these alternate belief meetups,

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Speaker 3: you know, where they kind of had these little you know,

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Speaker 3: where you could learn about Buddhism and and lots of

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Speaker 3: things that weren't mainstream religion.

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Speaker 1: And alternate belief what a term.

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Speaker 3: Okay, Yeah, So while they had these things, you know,

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Speaker 3: they had these little conventions, I guess you can call them,

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Speaker 3: so that they had like tarot cards and crystals and

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Speaker 3: basically anything alternative you can think of. And so this

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Speaker 3: this cult would kind of look for places around the

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Speaker 3: world where these little meetups were happening and then kind

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Speaker 3: of fly their members there to kind of discuss and

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Speaker 3: hopefully get new members.

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Speaker 1: So they go to like all the New Age convention.

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Speaker 2: New age that's the word, find all.

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Speaker 1: The mystical people. Okay, cool?

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Speaker 5: And so your parents were already like into the New

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Speaker 5: age shit, and they see them at a convention.

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Speaker 1: Is that what happened? And they're like, hell, yeah, this

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Speaker 1: is my jam.

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Speaker 3: Well my mom, especially my mom has always been very

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Speaker 3: much into anything new age and anything that can't be proven, and.

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Speaker 2: She's very much into that I grew up.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, even now she's still into that, which unfortunately has

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Speaker 3: led her more towards conspiracy theories.

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Speaker 2: They're not provable, so of course.

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Speaker 4: Nice.

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Speaker 5: So your parents are are like fully German, but you

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Speaker 5: yourself grew up mainly in America, is that right? Yeah?

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Speaker 3: When I first moved to us, because my parents did it,

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Speaker 3: so suddenly my dad's book English like enough to communicate

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Speaker 3: even in his business, and my mom spoke a couple

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Speaker 3: of words, because you know, in Germany you usually always

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Speaker 3: take at least one foreign language or not too in school,

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Speaker 3: and so the most common one was, you know, it's

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Speaker 3: usually Spanish, Italian or English is usually what most people

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Speaker 3: take because they're the closest. And so I went to

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Speaker 3: like I was literally thrown into kindergarten without speaking any

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Speaker 3: English whatsoever. My parents are like, oh, he'll figure it out,

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Speaker 3: and I mean it worked within like two months I

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Speaker 3: was able to communicate, but it was wow, it was

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Speaker 3: pretty traumatic. I still remember my very first day in kindergarten.

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Speaker 3: I was surrounded by like twenty kids and they were

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Speaker 3: all like, like, I had no idea.

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Speaker 2: Over this thing.

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Speaker 3: They were just like my remember, you know, and so

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Speaker 3: I they but I knew they were asking me questions.

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Speaker 3: So I assume they're like, you know, asking my name,

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Speaker 3: but I didn't. I only knew two words, yes and no.

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Speaker 3: So I just said yes. Everyone starts laughing.

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Speaker 2: And I was like, oh.

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Speaker 5: My god, wait, how did you like, how did anyone

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Speaker 5: even tell you what to do?

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Speaker 1: I don't even understand how that works.

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Speaker 3: So the kindergarten teacher, mister Klein actually remember his name was.

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Speaker 3: He spoke like basic German, like not enough to communicate

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Speaker 3: in German, but he understood words, so like he can say,

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Speaker 3: you know, sit down.

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Speaker 2: Or come here.

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Speaker 3: So in the very beginning he was able to use

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Speaker 3: those words. But anytime I tried speaking to him, and again,

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Speaker 3: because I was so young, I don't know if if

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Speaker 3: he knew more German, and it just like was forcing

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Speaker 3: me to speak English. But if I spoke to him

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Speaker 3: in German, he would never communicate back. He would always

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Speaker 3: like respond in English, you know, and I guess just

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Speaker 3: to kind of get me to learn it faster.

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Speaker 2: Which it worked.

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Speaker 5: It worked, Look at you, you're bilingual.

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Speaker 4: It only came with a few emotional traumas congratulation.

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Speaker 5: Wow, all right, a little a little German boy in

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Speaker 5: Los Angeles, So tell us what your life is like?

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Speaker 5: What's everyday life like?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, we actually moved to Agura. In the beginning, which

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Speaker 3: was nice. I mean it was back then Agura was

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Speaker 3: completely empty. I remember living like we had a house,

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Speaker 3: but it was next to giant dirt piles. So I

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Speaker 3: would just ride my bicycle every day, which was amazing

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Speaker 3: in giant piles of dirt.

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Speaker 2: But I mean, day to day was pretty normal.

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Speaker 3: We would like the cult had its own school, so

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Speaker 3: we would go to school, and it was I mean

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Speaker 3: kindergarten and first grade. I don't remember much much of

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Speaker 3: a difference. But one of the things that my parents,

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Speaker 3: being German, they were very big on education, so that

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Speaker 3: was one of the things like they kind of even

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Speaker 3: though it was a cult school, they taught a lot

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Speaker 3: of subjects properly. It wasn't just in Doctor Nation school.

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Speaker 3: They actually taught like math, science and all the important things,

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Speaker 3: which was actually I appreciate adults having it learned all

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Speaker 3: that And if.

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Speaker 4: You guys have your own school, then it must have

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Speaker 4: been pretty big, huh.

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Speaker 2: It was huge.

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Speaker 3: They had really and I don't remember where, I mean

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Speaker 3: again where it was in Los Angeles, but I think

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Speaker 3: it was somewhere in Malibu, and they had this huge

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Speaker 3: area that was just I mean I remember we would

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Speaker 3: drive up to it and there's this huge grass like

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Speaker 3: I mean, it must have been at least five square

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Speaker 3: miles of not more like it was a giant, giant thing.

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Speaker 1: Wait and where was that?

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Speaker 2: I think it was a Malibu But I.

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Speaker 1: Am so they had money.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, oh yeah that yeah, that was It was a

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Speaker 2: typical cult.

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Speaker 3: So everyone would give the cult leader everything and so

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Speaker 3: I mean, yeah, you know, some people didn't have much,

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Speaker 3: but others gave millions.

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Speaker 4: What was the leader like, what was the belief that

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Speaker 4: he was even she? Oh she, I'm sorry, she it's

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Speaker 4: all good. Wow, Magan sexist? So sexist. Yes, it's true,

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Speaker 4: it's true. When what was she? What was she like?

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Speaker 4: What was her vibe? I don't get it.

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Speaker 5: I just want to point out her last name was Prophet,

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Speaker 5: which is pretty amazing.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that is Elizabeth Clare Prophet. I remember that. My

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Speaker 2: first impression of her was.

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Speaker 3: She was, you know, this very kind and nice, motherly

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Speaker 3: type of a person. But the whole cult was built

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Speaker 3: around the fact that she was able to channel like

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Speaker 3: saints through her, and so she would give these talks

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Speaker 3: where like they would possess her and then so you'd

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Speaker 3: hear the word of these saints and all these other

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Speaker 3: prophets like speaking through her. So that was her whole thing.

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Speaker 3: She had this very like new age like oh I'm

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Speaker 3: mystical and I know things attitude about her. So when

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Speaker 3: we first moved, because my parents at that point had

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Speaker 3: some money, so they're very close to her in the beginning,

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Speaker 3: my dad was the one that kind of moved away first,

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Speaker 3: but my mom was still really into it. But once

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Speaker 3: she sensed that, like a my parents weren't giving her

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Speaker 3: tons of money anymore and be like, you know, it

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Speaker 3: was mainly my mom goes like really into it, not

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Speaker 3: so my dad.

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Speaker 2: They kind of got pushed out a little bit.

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Speaker 3: But so because the cult was so large by the

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Speaker 3: time I started, I mean there were hundreds in there already.

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Speaker 3: Like it's not like you met her on a daily basis,

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Speaker 3: Like most people never even like got to meet her,

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Speaker 3: Like meeting her was kind of considered a big deal,

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Speaker 3: especially if we.

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Speaker 2: Got like a private meeting type of a thing.

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Speaker 1: So oh wow, okay.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, Like it was thinking back on it, especially with

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Speaker 3: what I've looked into like other cults just out of curiosity,

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Speaker 3: like what what are other cults? Like, it's surprising how

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Speaker 3: like how large of a cult this really was, and

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Speaker 3: because it's growing up was normal like sure there's you

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Speaker 3: know this lady is the one that can channel saints

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Speaker 3: and all this stuff. Yeah, it was something I never

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Speaker 3: really thought of before.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, was it Christian at all? Or was it?

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Speaker 2: Yeah?

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Speaker 3: Essentially, I mean I got yeah, all the saints were

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Speaker 3: Christian saints, and I mean.

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Speaker 2: Essentially it was. It was the Bible.

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Speaker 3: I studied the Bible growing up, and a lot of

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Speaker 3: the pre I mean the saints were like saints from

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Speaker 3: the Bible and other holy figures that throughout history were

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Speaker 3: considered mystical or sat who ascended to sainthood and stuff

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Speaker 3: like that. I got baptized, I had my first communion,

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Speaker 3: so it had a lot of Christian.

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Speaker 2: Aspects of it.

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Speaker 3: It was basically, as far as I remember, it was

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Speaker 3: Christianity with everything culty added on top or more culty so.

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Speaker 5: So, but there's also mysticism on top of the like Christian.

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Speaker 2: Yes, very much.

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Speaker 4: So I would definitely be joining this. So I get it,

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Speaker 4: your mom, Yeah, I get it.

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Speaker 1: You already said that.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I already said that. If somebody's like, hey, here's

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Speaker 4: a bunch of wands and stuff and you can still

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Speaker 4: I think if I was Christian, that would be the

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Speaker 4: way I would go.

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Speaker 5: If you were a Christian, yeah, yeah, So but there

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Speaker 5: are crystals and stuff.

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Speaker 1: How new age do we get in here?

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Speaker 3: Well, yes and no, Like the crystals were never like

356
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Speaker 3: a part of the actual cult. Most of my memories,

357
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Speaker 3: I mean, I have a few memories but of Los Angeles,

358
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Speaker 3: but most of my memories are when they moved to

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Speaker 3: Montana later in the crazy bomb shelter phase, which so

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Speaker 3: that's another.

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Speaker 1: Oh but hey, exciting.

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Speaker 3: But because it was such a large like cult, they

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Speaker 3: would do all these large festivals, and I remember going

364
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Speaker 3: to as a kid, going to all these festivals, and

365
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Speaker 3: they always had like crystal sellers and tear like. So

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Speaker 3: all of that stuff was considered like a normal part

367
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Speaker 3: of it. But it wasn't like in essential part of

368
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Speaker 3: the cult. It was more like because you know, all

369
00:18:09,480 --> 00:18:12,520
Speaker 3: these mystical things are going on, obviously, these crystals and

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Speaker 3: tarot cards are doing.

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Speaker 5: Things so right, because I feel like in most Christian

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Speaker 5: religions that stuff is like a big no no, it's

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Speaker 5: like of the devil, right versus yeah, encouraged to be

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Speaker 5: like sort of incorporated in a way.

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Speaker 3: Which is which is what hooked my my mom, especially

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Speaker 3: because she was so new age and so she was like.

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Speaker 2: Oh, and they were always my parents were very.

378
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Speaker 3: Open with religion when when they were younger anyway, I mean,

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Speaker 3: my dad was Buddhist for a long time, and during

380
00:18:40,080 --> 00:18:41,800
Speaker 3: that time in their lives, they were both kind of

381
00:18:41,840 --> 00:18:45,640
Speaker 3: looking for something like kind of religion because they were

382
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Speaker 3: looking into, you know, all these different religions and none

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Speaker 3: of them held really any meeting for both of them.

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Speaker 3: And so because they were both kind of my mom

385
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Speaker 3: especially more new age, but even my dad was more

386
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Speaker 3: spiritual and less like organized religion. So this was kind

387
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Speaker 3: of kind of a good mel ye meeting point for

388
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Speaker 3: them both to be like, oh, I see, like it

389
00:19:12,280 --> 00:19:15,399
Speaker 3: has the religion like aspect, but it also has the

390
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Speaker 3: metaphysical stuff.

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Speaker 5: And I can't believe that it was that big and

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Speaker 5: I've never and in Los Angeles initially, and that I've

393
00:19:22,119 --> 00:19:24,760
Speaker 5: never heard of it, I'm like, actually pretty surprised.

394
00:19:24,920 --> 00:19:25,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was.

395
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Speaker 3: In the early eighties. They were in Los Angeles. The

396
00:19:28,960 --> 00:19:30,720
Speaker 3: late eighties they moved to Montana.

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Speaker 5: Sorry, I just want to one more thing about beliefs here.

398
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Speaker 5: I'm on the Wikipedia. It says it's beliefs reflect features

399
00:19:36,440 --> 00:19:39,840
Speaker 5: of the traditions of Theosophy and New Thought. So theosophy

400
00:19:39,880 --> 00:19:42,000
Speaker 5: is a word that I did not know until Frank

401
00:19:42,200 --> 00:19:44,480
Speaker 5: formerly if Heaven's Gate was on the podcast and he

402
00:19:44,520 --> 00:19:46,960
Speaker 5: said he was big into theosophy and that was like

403
00:19:47,040 --> 00:19:49,240
Speaker 5: sort of part of what led him into Heavens Gate.

404
00:19:49,520 --> 00:19:51,439
Speaker 5: I don't really know anything about it, but I'm like,

405
00:19:51,560 --> 00:19:53,919
Speaker 5: I'm just interested because that is sort of a little

406
00:19:53,920 --> 00:19:56,040
Speaker 5: common theme here. So it's a religion established in the

407
00:19:56,119 --> 00:19:58,800
Speaker 5: United States during the late nineteenth century, founded primarily by

408
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Speaker 5: the Russian immigrant Helena Blovatsky another woman Hey part of

409
00:20:05,000 --> 00:20:08,880
Speaker 5: an occultist stream of Western esotericism. It teaches that there's

410
00:20:08,920 --> 00:20:12,520
Speaker 5: an ancient and secretive brotherhood of spiritual adepts known as

411
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Speaker 5: the Masters, who, although found across the world, are centered

412
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Speaker 5: in Tibet. These Masters are alleged by Blovatsky to have

413
00:20:19,040 --> 00:20:23,520
Speaker 5: cultivated great wisdom and supernatural powers. So is it basically

414
00:20:23,600 --> 00:20:26,040
Speaker 5: like Elizabeth Claire Prophet is one of the Masters.

415
00:20:26,160 --> 00:20:32,480
Speaker 3: Is that the no she channeled the Masters, she would

416
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Speaker 3: channel the Masters as well.

417
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Speaker 2: Yeah, she wouldn't say that she was a Master.

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Speaker 1: I see, I see brilliant. She had epilepsy.

419
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Speaker 5: I don't know that she had the particular kind that

420
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Speaker 5: we've talked about on the podcast, which is temporal lobe epilepsy.

421
00:20:47,160 --> 00:20:49,600
Speaker 5: But temporal lobe epilepsy, which we've talked about before and

422
00:20:49,640 --> 00:20:51,360
Speaker 5: I will never stop talking about because it's the most

423
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Speaker 5: interesting thing in the entire world, is a kind of

424
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Speaker 5: epilepsy that induces like basically extreme intense religious experiences, so

425
00:21:00,119 --> 00:21:03,520
Speaker 5: people believe that they're in contact with God genuinely anyway,

426
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Speaker 5: but just makes.

427
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Speaker 1: Me wonder, it makes you wonder, did she have that.

428
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Speaker 5: Kind of epilepsy in addition to the other kind that

429
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Speaker 5: she had, which would cause her to black out periodically?

430
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Speaker 1: All Right, that's the end of my spiel.

431
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Speaker 3: No, I mean I would believe that because even the

432
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Speaker 3: few times I met her, especially when I was little,

433
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Speaker 3: I didn't get My mom would say, it's because I'm

434
00:21:22,600 --> 00:21:26,240
Speaker 3: a pisss, but I'm very in tune with emotions of

435
00:21:26,280 --> 00:21:30,040
Speaker 3: other people, and so I mean, I never got anything

436
00:21:30,440 --> 00:21:34,960
Speaker 3: like any bad intent from her. She truly believed it.

437
00:21:35,480 --> 00:21:39,560
Speaker 3: But that's also kind of why I ended up falling

438
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Speaker 3: out of it, because even though I knew she believed it,

439
00:21:42,600 --> 00:21:45,199
Speaker 3: it for me it didn't make sense. Why, you know,

440
00:21:45,280 --> 00:21:47,800
Speaker 3: there are certain holes in certain things that just didn't

441
00:21:47,840 --> 00:21:50,120
Speaker 3: add up to my little child brain that no one

442
00:21:50,119 --> 00:21:53,440
Speaker 3: could answer, and so like, slowly but surely, I ended

443
00:21:53,520 --> 00:21:54,760
Speaker 3: up falling out of it.

444
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Speaker 5: So we'll get to that part. Definitely excited to hear

445
00:21:58,000 --> 00:22:00,560
Speaker 5: that part. So how old are you when the big

446
00:22:00,600 --> 00:22:01,359
Speaker 5: move happens?

447
00:22:02,359 --> 00:22:06,560
Speaker 3: I was nine years old, I think, and so it

448
00:22:06,760 --> 00:22:11,360
Speaker 3: essentially became My dad still had his business in Los Angeles,

449
00:22:11,440 --> 00:22:13,400
Speaker 3: was still working there, and.

450
00:22:13,280 --> 00:22:14,960
Speaker 1: So my what was his business?

451
00:22:15,600 --> 00:22:17,200
Speaker 2: He worked for a.

452
00:22:17,160 --> 00:22:21,480
Speaker 3: Long time with herbal extracts, which it wasn't a euphemism

453
00:22:21,480 --> 00:22:22,560
Speaker 3: for drugs or anything.

454
00:22:22,640 --> 00:22:22,960
Speaker 2: It was.

455
00:22:24,600 --> 00:22:29,080
Speaker 3: It was actually taking In Europe, especially like they deal

456
00:22:29,160 --> 00:22:33,879
Speaker 3: more taking plant extracts as medicines. Instead of prozac, they

457
00:22:33,960 --> 00:22:37,440
Speaker 3: used Saint John's warts and all these things that because

458
00:22:37,440 --> 00:22:40,160
Speaker 3: in Germany it's actually considered medical, so they actually do

459
00:22:40,640 --> 00:22:43,240
Speaker 3: you know, blind studies and all these things.

460
00:22:44,240 --> 00:22:47,240
Speaker 4: If somebody replaced my prozac with Saint John's Wart, I

461
00:22:47,240 --> 00:22:48,159
Speaker 4: would slap them.

462
00:22:50,200 --> 00:22:51,080
Speaker 2: If you could tell.

463
00:22:52,680 --> 00:22:57,119
Speaker 4: Sure, Okay, so he's doing this in Los Angeles. Yeah,

464
00:22:57,160 --> 00:23:00,000
Speaker 4: and you guys are I love Agora Hill's ps. It's

465
00:23:00,119 --> 00:23:02,240
Speaker 4: really blown up. I don't know if you've been there lately, but.

466
00:23:02,640 --> 00:23:05,160
Speaker 3: It was really scary the first time when I went

467
00:23:05,200 --> 00:23:06,919
Speaker 3: back there, and like, I hadn't been back there in

468
00:23:06,960 --> 00:23:09,199
Speaker 3: like fifteen years. And I went back there, and in

469
00:23:09,280 --> 00:23:13,159
Speaker 3: my like memories, it was like there were little tiny

470
00:23:13,200 --> 00:23:16,240
Speaker 3: sections of like suburban areas, like kind of little cul

471
00:23:16,280 --> 00:23:18,480
Speaker 3: de sacs all over, but everything else was like just

472
00:23:18,600 --> 00:23:21,840
Speaker 3: dirt and like grass and no more. When I went back,

473
00:23:21,920 --> 00:23:24,280
Speaker 3: I was like, what is this place? Like what it's

474
00:23:24,320 --> 00:23:25,240
Speaker 3: just like every.

475
00:23:24,960 --> 00:23:29,359
Speaker 5: Other I haven't been there in ten years. I remember

476
00:23:29,359 --> 00:23:31,520
Speaker 5: it being very beautiful as well. It is.

477
00:23:31,600 --> 00:23:33,560
Speaker 2: It's gorgeous so much anymore.

478
00:23:34,080 --> 00:23:36,000
Speaker 4: No, So you guys are like, all right, we got

479
00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:36,760
Speaker 4: to go to Montana.

480
00:23:37,400 --> 00:23:39,320
Speaker 3: I found out later the cult was kind of getting

481
00:23:39,440 --> 00:23:42,000
Speaker 3: blowback from the city, and I think it was Malibu,

482
00:23:42,040 --> 00:23:44,000
Speaker 3: but they were getting blowback from the city kind of

483
00:23:44,040 --> 00:23:48,000
Speaker 3: like what's this weird, weird thing you guys have going on?

484
00:23:48,160 --> 00:23:52,840
Speaker 3: And so they decided to kind of move like they're like, well,

485
00:23:52,880 --> 00:23:55,760
Speaker 3: we need this giant area, Let's go to Montana. And

486
00:23:55,920 --> 00:23:58,760
Speaker 3: around the same time, they started kind of turning into

487
00:23:58,840 --> 00:24:02,040
Speaker 3: a doomsday cult, saying like, oh, the world is going

488
00:24:02,119 --> 00:24:04,919
Speaker 3: to be ending soon. So they're like, well, what's the

489
00:24:04,960 --> 00:24:08,200
Speaker 3: best place to be? And so you know, the cult

490
00:24:08,280 --> 00:24:12,000
Speaker 3: leader like channeled everything she could and was like, all right,

491
00:24:12,040 --> 00:24:14,199
Speaker 3: the only safe place in the world will be this

492
00:24:14,240 --> 00:24:18,919
Speaker 3: little area in Montana outside of Livingstone, and we're you know,

493
00:24:19,040 --> 00:24:21,359
Speaker 3: we're all going to set up this giant compound there

494
00:24:21,560 --> 00:24:25,119
Speaker 3: and you know, start building bomb shelters. Was essentially to

495
00:24:25,240 --> 00:24:28,800
Speaker 3: survive the apocalypse, and so that's kind of what ended up.

496
00:24:30,080 --> 00:24:32,239
Speaker 3: This is where you know, you never know, was it

497
00:24:32,320 --> 00:24:35,640
Speaker 3: because of all the blowback from the city that she decided, Oh,

498
00:24:35,680 --> 00:24:38,200
Speaker 3: I suddenly get this message that the world is ending

499
00:24:38,280 --> 00:24:40,919
Speaker 3: or is it? Kind of like, oh, well, since this

500
00:24:41,080 --> 00:24:43,440
Speaker 3: is going on, let's go somewhere else.

501
00:24:43,880 --> 00:24:47,000
Speaker 2: And so yeah, my and my mom, being my.

502
00:24:46,960 --> 00:24:49,720
Speaker 3: Mom was totally all on board with it, and my

503
00:24:49,840 --> 00:24:53,160
Speaker 3: dad was like, no, like I have a job here,

504
00:24:53,440 --> 00:24:58,359
Speaker 3: Like up in Montana, there's literally nothing. No herbal extract

505
00:24:58,359 --> 00:25:01,280
Speaker 3: company is going to go to mont Hannah like that's

506
00:25:01,840 --> 00:25:05,280
Speaker 3: so my mom essentially was like, well, I'm moving no

507
00:25:05,359 --> 00:25:08,320
Speaker 3: matter what. So if you want and I'm taking the

508
00:25:08,359 --> 00:25:09,840
Speaker 3: kids with me. So if you want to be part

509
00:25:09,880 --> 00:25:13,680
Speaker 3: of this family, you're going. So it was only four

510
00:25:13,760 --> 00:25:16,639
Speaker 3: years were there, but for most of the time my

511
00:25:16,760 --> 00:25:19,639
Speaker 3: dad lived in Los Angeles and would fly to Montana

512
00:25:19,720 --> 00:25:23,399
Speaker 3: every weekend and just to be part with part of

513
00:25:23,400 --> 00:25:26,199
Speaker 3: the family. And like there was no airport even so

514
00:25:26,320 --> 00:25:30,560
Speaker 3: you would have to like fly to Bozeman, transfer to

515
00:25:30,760 --> 00:25:34,760
Speaker 3: fly to Livingstone, and then drive like forty minutes to

516
00:25:34,800 --> 00:25:36,960
Speaker 3: get to like where we lived. Like it was, it

517
00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:40,120
Speaker 3: was hell for him. I can't imagine what was it.

518
00:25:40,119 --> 00:25:42,720
Speaker 5: Like for you though, You're nine and you're like, oh shit,

519
00:25:42,840 --> 00:25:45,280
Speaker 5: the world ending, Like how did you feel about it?

520
00:25:46,200 --> 00:25:49,159
Speaker 3: So my parents didn't just go, hey, we're all going

521
00:25:49,240 --> 00:25:50,400
Speaker 3: to die, like the world's ending.

522
00:25:50,680 --> 00:25:51,000
Speaker 2: It was.

523
00:25:51,480 --> 00:25:54,040
Speaker 3: They were very gentle with bringing about like it was

524
00:25:54,119 --> 00:25:57,080
Speaker 3: more it wasn't discussed with the kids until we started

525
00:25:57,119 --> 00:25:58,359
Speaker 3: building the bomb shelters.

526
00:25:58,400 --> 00:25:59,920
Speaker 2: And then you know, as kids would.

527
00:25:59,680 --> 00:26:02,400
Speaker 3: Go, well, what's what's with these bomb shelters, and they're like, well,

528
00:26:03,119 --> 00:26:07,400
Speaker 3: you know, it was mainly Russia, like Mikhail Gorbachev is

529
00:26:07,400 --> 00:26:08,720
Speaker 3: is being controlled by the.

530
00:26:08,680 --> 00:26:11,400
Speaker 2: Devil and he's gonna start the.

531
00:26:11,320 --> 00:26:14,280
Speaker 3: Next World war with all his nukes and because of

532
00:26:14,320 --> 00:26:17,840
Speaker 3: that we have to you know, hide and hear. And

533
00:26:17,880 --> 00:26:21,200
Speaker 3: then I remember like being super concerned about everyone else.

534
00:26:21,280 --> 00:26:23,640
Speaker 3: I'm like, well, what about the rest of the world, Like.

535
00:26:23,720 --> 00:26:25,040
Speaker 2: How are they going to fit in here?

536
00:26:25,119 --> 00:26:27,359
Speaker 3: And you know, my mom would be like, they can't

537
00:26:27,480 --> 00:26:29,840
Speaker 3: it's only us. I'm like, why don't we tell everyone else?

538
00:26:29,880 --> 00:26:32,239
Speaker 2: You know, I was like, well we should tell everyone. Ye,

539
00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:35,639
Speaker 2: that whole thing was in my mind.

540
00:26:35,760 --> 00:26:38,240
Speaker 3: It was a lot of fun because these these bomb

541
00:26:38,320 --> 00:26:42,200
Speaker 3: shelters were like the entrances were like twenty feet tall,

542
00:26:42,480 --> 00:26:44,640
Speaker 3: like to some of the bigger ones, Like you could

543
00:26:44,720 --> 00:26:48,840
Speaker 3: drive vehicles inside inside them. You walk inside this huge,

544
00:26:49,560 --> 00:26:53,320
Speaker 3: giant like thing. And then you know, after that, they

545
00:26:53,400 --> 00:26:56,480
Speaker 3: had little side corridors and everyone had.

546
00:26:56,320 --> 00:26:57,440
Speaker 2: Their own little rooms.

547
00:26:57,720 --> 00:27:02,440
Speaker 3: And then I remember, yeah, it was they were amazingly nice.

548
00:27:02,520 --> 00:27:04,520
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm sure they still are there, but.

549
00:27:04,359 --> 00:27:05,680
Speaker 4: That would have been nice. I would have liked to

550
00:27:05,680 --> 00:27:07,000
Speaker 4: feel about safe as a child.

551
00:27:07,440 --> 00:27:11,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, and it felt like as a giant fort essentially

552
00:27:11,720 --> 00:27:13,520
Speaker 3: like as a kid.

553
00:27:14,119 --> 00:27:16,960
Speaker 5: Yeah, can I just buy them now, I'll just I

554
00:27:17,000 --> 00:27:21,160
Speaker 5: would like that exactly. Were people actually like sleeping them

555
00:27:21,200 --> 00:27:22,679
Speaker 5: or living in them, or you were still building just

556
00:27:22,720 --> 00:27:23,320
Speaker 5: building them.

557
00:27:23,720 --> 00:27:25,960
Speaker 3: We were building them and even after they were built,

558
00:27:26,040 --> 00:27:29,600
Speaker 3: they were there as an emergency. So essentially what we

559
00:27:29,800 --> 00:27:33,320
Speaker 3: ended up doing after they were built, we all were

560
00:27:33,320 --> 00:27:36,000
Speaker 3: allowed one tubbraware container, so we all kind of filled

561
00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:39,520
Speaker 3: one tuberware container. With our important things and change of

562
00:27:39,600 --> 00:27:42,239
Speaker 3: clothes and socks and stuff like that. And then we

563
00:27:42,320 --> 00:27:44,320
Speaker 3: I remember, we all did like a family trip to

564
00:27:44,400 --> 00:27:46,160
Speaker 3: drop it off at the bomb shelter.

565
00:27:47,640 --> 00:27:48,320
Speaker 2: And that was it.

566
00:27:48,440 --> 00:27:51,879
Speaker 3: And then because my mom was so paranoid and worried

567
00:27:51,880 --> 00:27:55,040
Speaker 3: about it, she had my dad build a bomb shelter

568
00:27:55,119 --> 00:27:57,560
Speaker 3: in our actual house as well, like a smaller one

569
00:27:57,600 --> 00:27:59,680
Speaker 3: in case we couldn't make it to the big one.

570
00:27:59,520 --> 00:28:04,240
Speaker 1: When bombs all What year was this, I.

571
00:28:04,160 --> 00:28:06,119
Speaker 2: Want to say ninety one, it was.

572
00:28:06,440 --> 00:28:08,600
Speaker 4: Yeah, how much money do you think all these bomb

573
00:28:08,600 --> 00:28:10,119
Speaker 4: shelters cost at the end.

574
00:28:09,960 --> 00:28:14,400
Speaker 2: Of the day, Millions upon millions?

575
00:28:14,760 --> 00:28:18,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, I know, my oh yeah, my family put everything

576
00:28:18,840 --> 00:28:22,320
Speaker 3: they had and we heard stories of others also putting

577
00:28:22,359 --> 00:28:26,280
Speaker 3: in millions and millions of I mean, just yeah, that

578
00:28:26,800 --> 00:28:28,000
Speaker 3: is heartbreaking.

579
00:28:28,320 --> 00:28:30,840
Speaker 5: So what's going on with Liz this whole time? I'm

580
00:28:30,880 --> 00:28:31,840
Speaker 5: calling her Liz? Now?

581
00:28:32,640 --> 00:28:34,280
Speaker 1: Yeah?

582
00:28:34,320 --> 00:28:36,359
Speaker 5: And what is everyday life like? Do you stay on

583
00:28:36,400 --> 00:28:37,720
Speaker 5: the compound like all the time?

584
00:28:38,520 --> 00:28:42,320
Speaker 3: No, so most people were required to live on the compound,

585
00:28:42,360 --> 00:28:46,000
Speaker 3: but because my parents were so close with her, like,

586
00:28:46,240 --> 00:28:49,400
Speaker 3: they were allowed to live off the compound and not

587
00:28:49,480 --> 00:28:52,240
Speaker 3: that no one could like if you obviously couldn't afford it,

588
00:28:52,440 --> 00:28:54,280
Speaker 3: like you couldn't live on the compound, but it was

589
00:28:54,360 --> 00:28:56,760
Speaker 3: kind of if you really want to be close in this,

590
00:28:56,960 --> 00:28:59,200
Speaker 3: you know, member of this thing, you need.

591
00:28:59,000 --> 00:28:59,920
Speaker 2: To live on the car.

592
00:29:00,480 --> 00:29:02,840
Speaker 3: And that's why we had our own special bomb shelter

593
00:29:02,920 --> 00:29:04,520
Speaker 3: in case we couldn't make it to the one on

594
00:29:05,360 --> 00:29:08,280
Speaker 3: the compound because it was it was pretty I mean,

595
00:29:08,320 --> 00:29:11,920
Speaker 3: Montana is super sparse, so it was close, but it's

596
00:29:12,000 --> 00:29:13,360
Speaker 3: still I mean, you have to go.

597
00:29:13,280 --> 00:29:15,640
Speaker 2: Down all these dirt roads, drive on a freeway for a.

598
00:29:15,640 --> 00:29:18,240
Speaker 4: While, right, you know, the bombs are falling.

599
00:29:18,320 --> 00:29:19,480
Speaker 2: Exactly too much.

600
00:29:19,800 --> 00:29:21,040
Speaker 4: Two brothers and sisters.

601
00:29:21,360 --> 00:29:23,320
Speaker 2: I have four sisters.

602
00:29:22,880 --> 00:29:24,880
Speaker 4: And were they with you at this time? Like, are

603
00:29:24,880 --> 00:29:26,040
Speaker 4: they feeling it too?

604
00:29:26,200 --> 00:29:28,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, three of my sisters were with me at the time,

605
00:29:29,680 --> 00:29:33,760
Speaker 3: and I remember one of my older sisters was really

606
00:29:33,760 --> 00:29:36,680
Speaker 3: into the church around the time that I was starting

607
00:29:36,680 --> 00:29:40,040
Speaker 3: to fall out of it, and it really I couldn't

608
00:29:40,080 --> 00:29:42,200
Speaker 3: understand it because she would go to like all the

609
00:29:42,280 --> 00:29:45,760
Speaker 3: seminars and like whenever she would do her like channeling

610
00:29:46,760 --> 00:29:50,200
Speaker 3: her and my mom especially like would go there and they.

611
00:29:50,040 --> 00:29:50,600
Speaker 2: Would love it.

612
00:29:50,640 --> 00:29:52,920
Speaker 3: And then around the time I started kind of falling

613
00:29:52,960 --> 00:29:56,200
Speaker 3: back from it, and usually my dad started using that

614
00:29:56,280 --> 00:29:58,240
Speaker 3: as as an excuse to be like, oh, let me

615
00:29:58,280 --> 00:29:59,960
Speaker 3: hang out with Killian because he doesn't want to go,

616
00:30:00,240 --> 00:30:00,920
Speaker 3: you know, so.

617
00:30:00,880 --> 00:30:02,400
Speaker 2: He didn't have to go as much either.

618
00:30:02,560 --> 00:30:07,280
Speaker 3: So and then my youngest sisters were they were too

619
00:30:07,360 --> 00:30:09,280
Speaker 3: young to even know what was going on most of

620
00:30:09,320 --> 00:30:12,080
Speaker 3: the time. I remember Anya, my other sister, and I

621
00:30:12,120 --> 00:30:16,320
Speaker 3: we were essentially we raised those two little kids because

622
00:30:16,360 --> 00:30:18,680
Speaker 3: my parents were always off at the cult doing whatever,

623
00:30:18,720 --> 00:30:22,080
Speaker 3: and my dad was flying back and forth from Los Angeles,

624
00:30:22,080 --> 00:30:24,719
Speaker 3: so during the week he was almost never there, and

625
00:30:24,800 --> 00:30:28,400
Speaker 3: so my mom like would leave us alone and be like,

626
00:30:28,400 --> 00:30:31,000
Speaker 3: all right, you can just take care of the little.

627
00:30:30,720 --> 00:30:33,840
Speaker 1: Ones, and yeah, what was she doing all day.

628
00:30:34,680 --> 00:30:35,520
Speaker 2: Doing cult stuff?

629
00:30:35,600 --> 00:30:38,600
Speaker 3: Is like, that's that's as far as I know, Like,

630
00:30:38,680 --> 00:30:41,600
Speaker 3: I honestly don't know, because she would you know, take

631
00:30:41,640 --> 00:30:43,760
Speaker 3: the car and go off to the compound and so

632
00:30:44,440 --> 00:30:47,360
Speaker 3: we would be stuck at home and you know.

633
00:30:47,520 --> 00:30:49,120
Speaker 2: Just do whatever he needed to be done.

634
00:30:49,120 --> 00:30:51,040
Speaker 4: I wonder if it's like hard labor. I'm sure it's

635
00:30:51,280 --> 00:30:53,479
Speaker 4: really hard to keep place like that running, or if

636
00:30:53,480 --> 00:30:54,880
Speaker 4: they're just talking.

637
00:30:54,760 --> 00:30:57,560
Speaker 1: She has some kind of like title or role or something.

638
00:30:58,040 --> 00:31:01,080
Speaker 3: There were no titles really, no, it was just if

639
00:31:01,120 --> 00:31:04,160
Speaker 3: she liked you, like she would invite you to like,

640
00:31:04,600 --> 00:31:08,000
Speaker 3: you know, private dinners and hang out with her like

641
00:31:08,040 --> 00:31:11,480
Speaker 3: in person like but other other than that, like the

642
00:31:11,520 --> 00:31:14,240
Speaker 3: only time you pretty much saw her was when she

643
00:31:14,360 --> 00:31:18,280
Speaker 3: did her channelings and really big events and stuff like that.

644
00:31:18,440 --> 00:31:20,640
Speaker 1: Did you watch her do channelings?

645
00:31:20,760 --> 00:31:21,760
Speaker 2: I did? I did.

646
00:31:22,280 --> 00:31:22,800
Speaker 1: What was that?

647
00:31:22,920 --> 00:31:26,840
Speaker 3: Like? Honestly, it was just a person talking like she

648
00:31:26,840 --> 00:31:29,160
Speaker 3: would stand there, you know, and close her eyes and

649
00:31:29,200 --> 00:31:33,440
Speaker 3: then like start talking like this this is the word.

650
00:31:33,560 --> 00:31:38,200
Speaker 3: And so it wasn't anything like mystical. Like the first

651
00:31:38,200 --> 00:31:41,440
Speaker 3: time I went there, I really was expecting lights and

652
00:31:42,040 --> 00:31:46,800
Speaker 3: something amazing and otherworldly because this was my as my

653
00:31:46,840 --> 00:31:48,560
Speaker 3: parents told me, this was the only person in the

654
00:31:48,600 --> 00:31:50,800
Speaker 3: world who could channel all these things. So this was

655
00:31:50,840 --> 00:31:55,240
Speaker 3: obviously a special person. And seeing a person just talking

656
00:31:55,360 --> 00:31:58,160
Speaker 3: like every single day normal, I was like, all.

657
00:31:58,200 --> 00:32:02,520
Speaker 2: Right, she says, she does it, but issue really right.

658
00:32:02,480 --> 00:32:05,320
Speaker 5: And she's this is this is her channeling these otherworldly

659
00:32:05,480 --> 00:32:08,680
Speaker 5: masters and like having prophecies and stuff.

660
00:32:09,320 --> 00:32:12,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was kind of They were kind of themed.

661
00:32:12,720 --> 00:32:15,600
Speaker 3: So some of them were about the future, some of

662
00:32:15,600 --> 00:32:18,440
Speaker 3: them were about how to better yourself. Some of them

663
00:32:18,480 --> 00:32:20,880
Speaker 3: were about you know, the end of the world. Some

664
00:32:20,960 --> 00:32:24,200
Speaker 3: of them were about what you can do to help

665
00:32:24,280 --> 00:32:27,920
Speaker 3: the cult or whatever. And so my my mom would

666
00:32:27,960 --> 00:32:30,640
Speaker 3: talk about, Oh, we're going you know, she's talking about

667
00:32:30,680 --> 00:32:34,440
Speaker 3: this tonight, or she's channeling this person to discuss, you know,

668
00:32:34,760 --> 00:32:37,800
Speaker 3: this topic. And so it was a very like schedule.

669
00:32:37,920 --> 00:32:40,080
Speaker 3: She knew who she was going to be channeling and

670
00:32:40,160 --> 00:32:42,120
Speaker 3: what they wanted to talk about ahead of time.

671
00:32:42,520 --> 00:32:44,200
Speaker 2: So every single time, so.

672
00:32:44,160 --> 00:32:46,920
Speaker 5: It's like regular church sermons, but it just happens to

673
00:32:46,920 --> 00:32:48,760
Speaker 5: be that she's channeling the masters to do.

674
00:32:48,920 --> 00:32:51,120
Speaker 4: Yeah, sounds like exactly, so unfair.

675
00:32:53,160 --> 00:32:55,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, come on, make someone levitate.

676
00:32:54,960 --> 00:32:58,560
Speaker 2: Or something exactly, some something.

677
00:32:58,520 --> 00:33:01,240
Speaker 1: Little explosion like any Yeah, I.

678
00:33:01,200 --> 00:33:01,640
Speaker 2: Was gonna say.

679
00:33:01,640 --> 00:33:04,560
Speaker 3: We also had regular church on top of that as well.

680
00:33:04,760 --> 00:33:08,520
Speaker 3: Obviously she got she didn't show up to every single one,

681
00:33:08,800 --> 00:33:12,480
Speaker 3: so there there were or like again I don't know

682
00:33:12,480 --> 00:33:14,520
Speaker 3: if they're really ordained priests or not, but they were

683
00:33:14,600 --> 00:33:17,640
Speaker 3: priests that would show up, and we have normal mass

684
00:33:17,640 --> 00:33:19,800
Speaker 3: and that's where I would you know, where I got

685
00:33:19,840 --> 00:33:23,360
Speaker 3: my first communion and all that stuff. And so it

686
00:33:23,440 --> 00:33:27,040
Speaker 3: was like her channeling the things was a special thing

687
00:33:27,120 --> 00:33:29,640
Speaker 3: that wasn't every single day like for the day to

688
00:33:29,720 --> 00:33:33,479
Speaker 3: day holy ceremonies. She had other priests and other people

689
00:33:33,880 --> 00:33:34,840
Speaker 3: taking care of all that.

690
00:33:35,480 --> 00:33:40,000
Speaker 4: So did you guys have day to day like holy stuff? Yeah,

691
00:33:40,040 --> 00:33:41,840
Speaker 4: I know you're saying it. She didn't do it every day,

692
00:33:41,840 --> 00:33:44,760
Speaker 4: but you guys had to do basically church every day.

693
00:33:45,360 --> 00:33:48,800
Speaker 3: I mean, it wasn't because with how large the cult was,

694
00:33:48,840 --> 00:33:53,000
Speaker 3: it wasn't mandatory. It was, you know, you you should

695
00:33:53,000 --> 00:33:54,240
Speaker 3: do this to be a good.

696
00:33:54,080 --> 00:33:55,480
Speaker 2: Cult member like that.

697
00:33:55,480 --> 00:33:57,600
Speaker 3: That's why growing up I didn't think I was in

698
00:33:57,640 --> 00:34:00,880
Speaker 3: a cult because everything I had, like even when I

699
00:34:00,960 --> 00:34:04,040
Speaker 3: was younger, cults were this horrible thing that people forced

700
00:34:04,040 --> 00:34:06,120
Speaker 3: you to do, all these whole you know, really mean

701
00:34:06,200 --> 00:34:08,560
Speaker 3: things and that people didn't really want to do. And

702
00:34:09,080 --> 00:34:11,719
Speaker 3: at least growing up, it was very do this if

703
00:34:11,800 --> 00:34:13,920
Speaker 3: you want to be more involved in the church, but

704
00:34:14,080 --> 00:34:17,360
Speaker 3: you don't have to do this. So I never felt

705
00:34:17,520 --> 00:34:21,560
Speaker 3: there was any anything forcing again as a child, that's

706
00:34:21,880 --> 00:34:24,319
Speaker 3: I never felt that other than my parents forcing me

707
00:34:24,400 --> 00:34:25,440
Speaker 3: to go to all the church.

708
00:34:26,120 --> 00:34:27,879
Speaker 1: Do you feel differently about that now?

709
00:34:29,719 --> 00:34:30,799
Speaker 2: No, about that part.

710
00:34:31,040 --> 00:34:35,640
Speaker 3: No, there was definitely stuff going on later on that.

711
00:34:35,880 --> 00:34:38,440
Speaker 3: I mean, it wasn't surprising considering it was a cult.

712
00:34:38,560 --> 00:34:42,080
Speaker 3: But I mean, even looking back, I think the cult

713
00:34:42,280 --> 00:34:45,640
Speaker 3: preyed on it. You know, it's people wanting to feel

714
00:34:45,640 --> 00:34:48,640
Speaker 3: like part of the family. So it didn't force you

715
00:34:48,680 --> 00:34:50,360
Speaker 3: to be part of the family, but if you weren't

716
00:34:50,360 --> 00:34:53,879
Speaker 3: there enough, they were kind of like, let's not edged

717
00:34:53,920 --> 00:34:56,000
Speaker 3: out a little bit, and so that coldness, you know,

718
00:34:56,080 --> 00:34:58,960
Speaker 3: and people joined the cults to be part of something,

719
00:34:59,000 --> 00:35:02,040
Speaker 3: to feel a family connection, and so it kind of

720
00:35:02,800 --> 00:35:05,920
Speaker 3: pushed those people like to get more involved and.

721
00:35:05,800 --> 00:35:08,839
Speaker 5: Closer to it, right, I mean, that's usually what happens, right.

722
00:35:08,880 --> 00:35:11,680
Speaker 5: It's usually not anybody actually being you know, gun to

723
00:35:11,719 --> 00:35:12,520
Speaker 5: their head forrest.

724
00:35:12,640 --> 00:35:15,239
Speaker 1: It's more like, you don't have to.

725
00:35:15,120 --> 00:35:17,560
Speaker 5: Do this, but if you don't do this, you won't

726
00:35:17,560 --> 00:35:19,279
Speaker 5: be in the inner circle. And if you're not in

727
00:35:19,320 --> 00:35:22,759
Speaker 5: the inner circle, like fuck, you might be fucked, you know.

728
00:35:23,760 --> 00:35:26,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, And growing up, that was my impression was cults

729
00:35:26,320 --> 00:35:28,640
Speaker 3: forced people to do things with the gun, like you know,

730
00:35:28,760 --> 00:35:31,359
Speaker 3: to your head, like you do this or else. So

731
00:35:31,760 --> 00:35:34,600
Speaker 3: it wasn't until later I was like, oh, I was

732
00:35:34,640 --> 00:35:35,200
Speaker 3: in a cult.

733
00:35:35,480 --> 00:35:39,719
Speaker 4: Okay, that's a pack. Yeah. Was there was there a

734
00:35:39,760 --> 00:35:43,280
Speaker 4: point when you totally were all in, like completely believed

735
00:35:43,280 --> 00:35:45,040
Speaker 4: it when you were little or were you always a

736
00:35:45,080 --> 00:35:47,040
Speaker 4: little bit like huh oh.

737
00:35:46,960 --> 00:35:49,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, there was definitely a point when when I was

738
00:35:49,160 --> 00:35:51,479
Speaker 3: all in I mean again, I was young. I grew

739
00:35:51,560 --> 00:35:55,000
Speaker 3: up with it. Just like any child in any religious household.

740
00:35:55,640 --> 00:35:58,440
Speaker 3: You know, it's what you do, so you just go

741
00:35:58,680 --> 00:36:01,080
Speaker 3: do the day to day without really questioning it. I

742
00:36:01,160 --> 00:36:05,759
Speaker 3: started going to Bible school and because we again it

743
00:36:05,800 --> 00:36:08,280
Speaker 3: was kind of the Christian cult anyway, so we actually

744
00:36:08,280 --> 00:36:10,960
Speaker 3: read the Bible and we did Bible studies. But then

745
00:36:11,000 --> 00:36:13,160
Speaker 3: they always added in all the stuff with all the

746
00:36:13,200 --> 00:36:14,800
Speaker 3: masters and saints and.

747
00:36:14,600 --> 00:36:15,320
Speaker 2: All that stuff.

748
00:36:15,920 --> 00:36:17,879
Speaker 3: It wasn't until I started doing that that I really

749
00:36:17,920 --> 00:36:19,480
Speaker 3: started questioning beliefs.

750
00:36:20,160 --> 00:36:21,879
Speaker 2: And a large part of that.

751
00:36:21,920 --> 00:36:25,600
Speaker 3: Of that is due to my dad being really big

752
00:36:25,640 --> 00:36:29,960
Speaker 3: into science and always forcing me to question things. And

753
00:36:30,120 --> 00:36:32,759
Speaker 3: you know, whenever I would ask him something, he would

754
00:36:33,000 --> 00:36:35,040
Speaker 3: not just give me the answer. He would force me

755
00:36:35,120 --> 00:36:38,960
Speaker 3: to kind of reach a conclusion, like by kind of

756
00:36:38,960 --> 00:36:41,440
Speaker 3: prodding me, which as a kid, I hated that so much.

757
00:36:41,480 --> 00:36:43,080
Speaker 2: I was like, that's probably when I let to know.

758
00:36:44,000 --> 00:36:47,520
Speaker 3: But because of that, it helped me, you know, grow

759
00:36:47,640 --> 00:36:51,680
Speaker 3: up where I was always questioning something and always expecting

760
00:36:51,719 --> 00:36:55,720
Speaker 3: answers from something. And so once the Bible studies started,

761
00:36:56,000 --> 00:36:59,920
Speaker 3: you know, they were just normal people, moms or you know,

762
00:37:00,680 --> 00:37:03,319
Speaker 3: normal day to day people. They weren't didn't have any

763
00:37:03,680 --> 00:37:06,120
Speaker 3: mystical knowledge, but as a kid, I didn't know that.

764
00:37:06,200 --> 00:37:08,239
Speaker 3: So when I would ask them questions like why does

765
00:37:08,280 --> 00:37:10,680
Speaker 3: this master do this? Instead of that, they wouldn't know,

766
00:37:10,719 --> 00:37:11,239
Speaker 3: and I'd be.

767
00:37:11,160 --> 00:37:14,120
Speaker 2: Like, why don't you know? Like who knows these things?

768
00:37:14,160 --> 00:37:16,839
Speaker 3: And it was little little bits and pieces like that,

769
00:37:16,920 --> 00:37:19,480
Speaker 3: you know. And then I asked my parents one day,

770
00:37:19,520 --> 00:37:21,400
Speaker 3: like how come all the saints speak to her and

771
00:37:21,400 --> 00:37:23,520
Speaker 3: no one else? And I was told, oh, she is

772
00:37:23,640 --> 00:37:26,360
Speaker 3: just wholly impure that like they do that. And I

773
00:37:26,400 --> 00:37:30,200
Speaker 3: was like, well, what's so dirty about me that? Like

774
00:37:30,360 --> 00:37:32,480
Speaker 3: I haven't done anything bad? Like why am I not

775
00:37:32,600 --> 00:37:34,920
Speaker 3: hearing this? And so I there was a while I

776
00:37:34,960 --> 00:37:38,080
Speaker 3: actually tried. I went to like that's when I was

777
00:37:38,120 --> 00:37:40,200
Speaker 3: the most into it. I was trying to see if

778
00:37:40,239 --> 00:37:43,680
Speaker 3: I could, if I really got into the services and

779
00:37:43,840 --> 00:37:46,560
Speaker 3: did everything, if I could become like holy enough to

780
00:37:46,600 --> 00:37:47,480
Speaker 3: start hearing these.

781
00:37:47,400 --> 00:37:50,920
Speaker 4: Voices and walk us through this. You're outside sitting there,

782
00:37:51,280 --> 00:37:52,799
Speaker 4: you just sit there for a while, like I'm gonna

783
00:37:52,800 --> 00:37:54,919
Speaker 4: hear a voice soon or what would that look like?

784
00:37:55,360 --> 00:37:57,839
Speaker 3: Well, yeah, part of it was I'm gonna sit here

785
00:37:57,880 --> 00:38:00,840
Speaker 3: and hopefully I'm gonna hear a voice soon or I

786
00:38:00,840 --> 00:38:02,640
Speaker 3: mean I was, I was young, So most of it

787
00:38:02,760 --> 00:38:05,080
Speaker 3: was like, I'm going to do everything my mom says,

788
00:38:05,239 --> 00:38:07,520
Speaker 3: because you know, that's what a good person does.

789
00:38:07,600 --> 00:38:09,960
Speaker 2: I'm gonna, you know, do all my chores.

790
00:38:10,080 --> 00:38:12,040
Speaker 3: I'm gonna, you know, when I go to the service,

791
00:38:12,080 --> 00:38:15,400
Speaker 3: I'm really I'm not gonna like just fidget. I'm going

792
00:38:15,480 --> 00:38:18,440
Speaker 3: to really listen and really pray really hard with.

793
00:38:18,440 --> 00:38:19,600
Speaker 2: That, you know, all my might.

794
00:38:19,719 --> 00:38:23,880
Speaker 3: So it was it was just trying so hard to

795
00:38:24,080 --> 00:38:26,719
Speaker 3: kind of prove to whoever was up there that I

796
00:38:26,800 --> 00:38:29,840
Speaker 3: was a good person. And like, after a while, I

797
00:38:29,880 --> 00:38:33,680
Speaker 3: was like, I mean, that's weird. I'm not hearing anything.

798
00:38:36,520 --> 00:38:37,879
Speaker 1: You're such a cool kid.

799
00:38:38,000 --> 00:38:40,799
Speaker 5: I think I've just accepted that only prophets get to

800
00:38:40,800 --> 00:38:43,200
Speaker 5: talk to God. Regular people don't get to talk to God.

801
00:38:43,320 --> 00:38:45,239
Speaker 4: He was like, I will do it too.

802
00:38:45,320 --> 00:38:46,200
Speaker 1: I just want to.

803
00:38:46,400 --> 00:38:49,000
Speaker 4: I just want to know what you thought you could, like,

804
00:38:49,080 --> 00:38:50,839
Speaker 4: what you were doing that you thought I was going

805
00:38:50,920 --> 00:38:51,760
Speaker 4: to start talking.

806
00:38:51,840 --> 00:38:54,640
Speaker 1: I don't know, it's so fun.

807
00:38:54,800 --> 00:38:57,640
Speaker 5: Did you ever interact with Elizabeth directly?

808
00:38:59,080 --> 00:38:59,960
Speaker 2: I met her as.

809
00:38:59,800 --> 00:39:03,759
Speaker 3: A child, but again I was I was too young

810
00:39:03,840 --> 00:39:06,160
Speaker 3: to really like at that point, I didn't even know

811
00:39:06,280 --> 00:39:08,839
Speaker 3: she was the cult leader because.

812
00:39:09,800 --> 00:39:11,920
Speaker 2: Like especially in the very very beginning.

813
00:39:11,960 --> 00:39:14,120
Speaker 3: My parents were actually really close with her, and because

814
00:39:14,120 --> 00:39:16,960
Speaker 3: of that, she was just this nice lady, like a

815
00:39:16,960 --> 00:39:20,279
Speaker 3: friend of my parents. And so it wasn't until I

816
00:39:20,880 --> 00:39:23,520
Speaker 3: was like ten or eleven I was like, oh, she's

817
00:39:23,640 --> 00:39:26,759
Speaker 3: like the cult lead, Like she's like the big she's

818
00:39:26,960 --> 00:39:30,520
Speaker 3: you know, instead of just just one of my parents'

819
00:39:30,520 --> 00:39:33,000
Speaker 3: friends that would come over and you know, would hang

820
00:39:33,040 --> 00:39:34,279
Speaker 3: out every now and then.

821
00:39:34,520 --> 00:39:37,680
Speaker 5: So she didn't seem special or have a mystical glow

822
00:39:37,800 --> 00:39:40,319
Speaker 5: around her.

823
00:39:41,080 --> 00:39:43,600
Speaker 3: I think maybe that's what kind of also in the

824
00:39:43,760 --> 00:39:45,840
Speaker 3: you know, tended to be like, well, she's just a

825
00:39:46,080 --> 00:39:49,000
Speaker 3: normal person. Like in my miraind she she wasn't right,

826
00:39:49,600 --> 00:39:52,319
Speaker 3: you know, apart from someone telling me she was the

827
00:39:52,400 --> 00:39:55,160
Speaker 3: leader in her tell telling us she can hear all

828
00:39:55,160 --> 00:39:59,160
Speaker 3: these voices like she never exhibited anything that made me.

829
00:39:59,280 --> 00:40:02,960
Speaker 2: As a kid go oh she is special, like I yeah.

830
00:40:03,000 --> 00:40:06,279
Speaker 5: So I wonder how much expectations are involved, because I

831
00:40:06,280 --> 00:40:08,400
Speaker 5: feel like when somebody is built up to you in

832
00:40:08,480 --> 00:40:12,600
Speaker 5: advance as being this special, mystical profit person, or at

833
00:40:12,680 --> 00:40:14,319
Speaker 5: least it seems this way for a lot of people

834
00:40:14,360 --> 00:40:17,239
Speaker 5: we've talked to, it really colors that like initial meeting,

835
00:40:17,280 --> 00:40:19,560
Speaker 5: whereas if you meet them and they just seem like

836
00:40:19,560 --> 00:40:21,480
Speaker 5: a normal person and then you find out their profit,

837
00:40:21,560 --> 00:40:24,560
Speaker 5: I imagine that's like, yeah, just a totally different experience.

838
00:40:24,760 --> 00:40:24,960
Speaker 2: Yeah.

839
00:40:24,960 --> 00:40:26,440
Speaker 3: And if you go to a movie and you have

840
00:40:26,520 --> 00:40:29,759
Speaker 3: super high expectations and it's it doesn't live up to them,

841
00:40:29,840 --> 00:40:31,719
Speaker 3: it's a terrible movie. But if you go in with

842
00:40:31,840 --> 00:40:34,480
Speaker 3: zero expectations, you're like, well I was entertaining.

843
00:40:36,160 --> 00:40:39,760
Speaker 5: Yeah, Okay, So you're still in school, you're living your life,

844
00:40:39,800 --> 00:40:42,360
Speaker 5: your kid, you're in a regular house, your but you

845
00:40:42,520 --> 00:40:44,600
Speaker 5: just happen to think that nuclear war is.

846
00:40:44,840 --> 00:40:47,120
Speaker 4: Yeah, are you just being so anxious? Do you need

847
00:40:47,160 --> 00:40:48,680
Speaker 4: to be on I would need to be on a

848
00:40:48,719 --> 00:40:51,319
Speaker 4: lot more pills than prozaic. If someone was like they're

849
00:40:51,360 --> 00:40:55,120
Speaker 4: gonna bomb you any minute, were you okay with this information?

850
00:40:56,840 --> 00:40:58,080
Speaker 2: No? I wasn't.

851
00:40:58,120 --> 00:41:00,680
Speaker 3: I mean when I first heard it, I was freaking out,

852
00:41:00,760 --> 00:41:02,799
Speaker 3: And every single time we left, I was like it

853
00:41:03,080 --> 00:41:05,319
Speaker 3: should like is it going to be safe? Is it

854
00:41:05,360 --> 00:41:09,600
Speaker 3: going to happen? And that's kind of I also kind

855
00:41:09,640 --> 00:41:12,040
Speaker 3: of what helped him. My dad was like, it's it's

856
00:41:12,120 --> 00:41:15,560
Speaker 3: not going to happen like right now, Like it's it'll

857
00:41:15,560 --> 00:41:16,320
Speaker 3: be years from.

858
00:41:16,200 --> 00:41:16,640
Speaker 2: Now, you know.

859
00:41:17,040 --> 00:41:19,239
Speaker 3: Whereas everyone else was like, oh, it's you know, and

860
00:41:19,280 --> 00:41:21,600
Speaker 3: so my dad, trying to be a good dad, was

861
00:41:21,640 --> 00:41:24,880
Speaker 3: like and try to get me to relax, like it's

862
00:41:25,080 --> 00:41:25,600
Speaker 3: it's going to.

863
00:41:25,600 --> 00:41:27,279
Speaker 2: Be years and years from now if it.

864
00:41:27,239 --> 00:41:29,600
Speaker 5: Happened, you know, And so did he believe it or

865
00:41:29,640 --> 00:41:30,960
Speaker 5: did he not really believe it anymore?

866
00:41:31,200 --> 00:41:33,880
Speaker 3: At that point he was starting to fall out of it.

867
00:41:35,000 --> 00:41:39,520
Speaker 3: And that's also yeah, around the same time, like you know,

868
00:41:39,920 --> 00:41:42,880
Speaker 3: all the little stories started coming out of people that

869
00:41:42,960 --> 00:41:45,879
Speaker 3: had left, and of course they were all dismissed as

870
00:41:46,000 --> 00:41:48,400
Speaker 3: you know, people that were jealous of her powers and

871
00:41:48,440 --> 00:41:51,680
Speaker 3: all that right and not understanding her or something.

872
00:41:51,719 --> 00:41:53,400
Speaker 2: But before that, I mean.

873
00:41:53,280 --> 00:41:56,160
Speaker 3: My day to day was it was weird because because

874
00:41:56,160 --> 00:41:58,680
Speaker 3: it was in Montana and it was a cult environment.

875
00:41:58,880 --> 00:42:03,000
Speaker 3: So we would do service and then I remember I

876
00:42:03,040 --> 00:42:06,120
Speaker 3: would work on the farm. They had big farms, and

877
00:42:06,200 --> 00:42:09,960
Speaker 3: so I would you know, sometimes be harvesting lettuce or

878
00:42:10,040 --> 00:42:12,440
Speaker 3: radishes or all that stuff, and so we would all

879
00:42:12,480 --> 00:42:16,479
Speaker 3: be working outside, which was, yeah, a lot of fun.

880
00:42:16,560 --> 00:42:17,680
Speaker 2: That's where my first.

881
00:42:17,440 --> 00:42:20,680
Speaker 3: Giant injury with a knife came when I sliced sliced

882
00:42:20,680 --> 00:42:21,439
Speaker 3: my finger off.

883
00:42:21,520 --> 00:42:23,240
Speaker 2: Oh, I had a land.

884
00:42:23,120 --> 00:42:25,160
Speaker 3: A knife and I was cutting lettuce and I was

885
00:42:25,520 --> 00:42:28,160
Speaker 3: like eight, I think, and I just went and like

886
00:42:28,239 --> 00:42:32,160
Speaker 3: slice through two of my fingers, and yeah, it was

887
00:42:32,440 --> 00:42:35,080
Speaker 3: it was little. It was the first time I was like,

888
00:42:35,120 --> 00:42:38,680
Speaker 3: oh my god, it's not stopping bleeding. Like it's yeah.

889
00:42:39,000 --> 00:42:41,839
Speaker 3: But I mean other than that, that was the only

890
00:42:42,000 --> 00:42:44,560
Speaker 3: like terrible moment ever. But the rest of the time,

891
00:42:44,640 --> 00:42:47,720
Speaker 3: it was literally you just working on a giant farm

892
00:42:47,760 --> 00:42:50,760
Speaker 3: with all these other people. And I think that stuff

893
00:42:50,880 --> 00:42:53,240
Speaker 3: usually happened on the weekends when we weren't going to school,

894
00:42:53,400 --> 00:42:56,879
Speaker 3: So on the weekends it was go to no so.

895
00:42:56,840 --> 00:42:58,480
Speaker 4: You would wake up on Saturday and you'd have to

896
00:42:58,560 --> 00:42:59,480
Speaker 4: go to work.

897
00:42:59,680 --> 00:43:02,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, like but it was, you know, for the good

898
00:43:02,280 --> 00:43:02,760
Speaker 2: of the cult.

899
00:43:03,080 --> 00:43:05,040
Speaker 1: So yeah, it was fun.

900
00:43:05,760 --> 00:43:08,440
Speaker 3: It was I never liked doing it, of course as

901
00:43:08,480 --> 00:43:10,600
Speaker 3: a kid, but you know, especially during the phase where

902
00:43:10,600 --> 00:43:12,399
Speaker 3: I was like I'm going to become a good person,

903
00:43:12,480 --> 00:43:14,400
Speaker 3: I was like, yes, I'm going to really get into

904
00:43:14,560 --> 00:43:18,279
Speaker 3: like cutting the cutting this lettuce and taking all my

905
00:43:18,400 --> 00:43:19,600
Speaker 3: radishes and it's.

906
00:43:19,440 --> 00:43:22,440
Speaker 1: Going to be the best lettuce cutter exactly. And then

907
00:43:22,600 --> 00:43:25,360
Speaker 1: and then the masters will talk to me. This is

908
00:43:25,400 --> 00:43:27,719
Speaker 1: still a regular school, but like on the compound.

909
00:43:28,600 --> 00:43:31,719
Speaker 3: Yeah, so the school in the beginning was on the compound,

910
00:43:31,760 --> 00:43:34,600
Speaker 3: but because the cult kept on growing and growing and

911
00:43:34,920 --> 00:43:37,000
Speaker 3: so that at one point they kind of made it

912
00:43:37,040 --> 00:43:39,480
Speaker 3: so that the school on the compound was only for

913
00:43:39,520 --> 00:43:42,359
Speaker 3: the people living on the compound, And but then they

914
00:43:42,400 --> 00:43:46,480
Speaker 3: set up like satellite schools as well, and so later on,

915
00:43:47,280 --> 00:43:49,080
Speaker 3: for most of them my time, I ended up going

916
00:43:49,120 --> 00:43:53,560
Speaker 3: to like one of the satellite schools, which was, like,

917
00:43:53,840 --> 00:43:55,920
Speaker 3: I thought it was a normal school. I thought everyone

918
00:43:56,000 --> 00:44:00,360
Speaker 3: had to learn Latin and learn like other languages, but

919
00:44:00,719 --> 00:44:02,400
Speaker 3: apparently that wasn't.

920
00:44:02,200 --> 00:44:03,440
Speaker 2: A thing was like.

921
00:44:04,239 --> 00:44:08,360
Speaker 3: But believe it or not as much as I remember

922
00:44:08,440 --> 00:44:11,480
Speaker 3: being in the third grade having to learn Latin and

923
00:44:11,520 --> 00:44:13,440
Speaker 3: hating it, but it did help me a lot with

924
00:44:13,560 --> 00:44:16,280
Speaker 3: my understanding the English language.

925
00:44:15,880 --> 00:44:19,160
Speaker 2: And figuring out how how everything works. So I mean,

926
00:44:19,160 --> 00:44:19,880
Speaker 2: it wasn't all.

927
00:44:19,719 --> 00:44:22,240
Speaker 1: Bad Latin school. I wish i'd learned Latin.

928
00:44:23,320 --> 00:44:25,680
Speaker 4: I took five years of it, and I don't think

929
00:44:25,719 --> 00:44:29,839
Speaker 4: I learned a thing so nice.

930
00:44:31,280 --> 00:44:34,359
Speaker 5: I can say some Harry Potter words that seem like

931
00:44:34,440 --> 00:44:37,839
Speaker 5: maybe there's Latin related I don't know, expelli armists. So

932
00:44:38,160 --> 00:44:41,640
Speaker 5: Dad's starting to question. You're starting to question people are leaving.

933
00:44:41,760 --> 00:44:45,239
Speaker 5: Are there specific rumors that like something bad happened yeah, the.

934
00:44:45,600 --> 00:44:48,760
Speaker 3: Like I remember, the worst one was there was another

935
00:44:48,840 --> 00:44:52,200
Speaker 3: guy who had given millions and millions to the cult,

936
00:44:52,440 --> 00:44:56,560
Speaker 3: and he ended up asking like his daughter ended up

937
00:44:56,719 --> 00:44:59,239
Speaker 3: getting sick from something, so he asked for you know,

938
00:44:59,320 --> 00:45:01,480
Speaker 3: like a couple of hundred thousand dollars to pay her

939
00:45:01,520 --> 00:45:02,240
Speaker 3: medical bills.

940
00:45:02,239 --> 00:45:05,480
Speaker 2: So that end like the cult leader refused, you.

941
00:45:06,000 --> 00:45:09,560
Speaker 3: Know, and so of course that guy left, you know,

942
00:45:09,640 --> 00:45:12,520
Speaker 3: and I think he also went to like the newspapers,

943
00:45:12,560 --> 00:45:14,560
Speaker 3: and there he was, you know, trying to sue, but

944
00:45:14,719 --> 00:45:17,440
Speaker 3: because it was a religion like considered one, like.

945
00:45:17,480 --> 00:45:18,879
Speaker 2: It was almost impossible.

946
00:45:19,080 --> 00:45:23,200
Speaker 3: And so I remember there were like lawyering up because

947
00:45:23,239 --> 00:45:26,240
Speaker 3: my parents would talk about it, how like this horrible,

948
00:45:26,239 --> 00:45:29,520
Speaker 3: evil person is suing her, you know, and all these things.

949
00:45:29,560 --> 00:45:33,399
Speaker 3: But it wasn't until later that like I was like, oh,

950
00:45:33,600 --> 00:45:35,560
Speaker 3: I guess he just wanted to save.

951
00:45:35,480 --> 00:45:38,720
Speaker 2: His daughter and the clatter being a horrible person.

952
00:45:39,080 --> 00:45:41,680
Speaker 3: So there's a lot of little things like that where

953
00:45:41,719 --> 00:45:45,000
Speaker 3: people would, you know, little stories where people would give

954
00:45:45,040 --> 00:45:47,400
Speaker 3: money or they would slight her in some way and

955
00:45:47,440 --> 00:45:50,200
Speaker 3: they get kicked out, you know. And then there were

956
00:45:50,560 --> 00:45:54,680
Speaker 3: like stories of her having like orgy parties, like little

957
00:45:54,800 --> 00:45:56,080
Speaker 3: little things like that.

958
00:45:56,120 --> 00:45:59,759
Speaker 1: Here and there that litty was just a little bit.

959
00:46:00,040 --> 00:46:00,680
Speaker 2: I mean, it's normal.

960
00:46:00,800 --> 00:46:02,520
Speaker 4: Do you think she was do you think she was

961
00:46:02,560 --> 00:46:03,560
Speaker 4: having orgy parties?

962
00:46:05,280 --> 00:46:08,520
Speaker 3: I honestly, I mean I wouldn't put a pastor as

963
00:46:08,960 --> 00:46:12,680
Speaker 3: what I know from people, especially like people in power,

964
00:46:12,800 --> 00:46:15,319
Speaker 3: and like how how they handle that and how they

965
00:46:15,360 --> 00:46:18,439
Speaker 3: feel about it. I mean it makes you feel even

966
00:46:18,600 --> 00:46:21,319
Speaker 3: more powerful and better all these people willing to do

967
00:46:21,440 --> 00:46:25,360
Speaker 3: things for you. But for her personally, I yeah, I

968
00:46:25,520 --> 00:46:27,480
Speaker 3: have no clue whether or not she would.

969
00:46:28,560 --> 00:46:32,040
Speaker 5: I mean it seems like a general like generally that's

970
00:46:32,200 --> 00:46:32,880
Speaker 5: the deal.

971
00:46:33,880 --> 00:46:35,719
Speaker 4: But then you add the Christian thing to it, and

972
00:46:35,760 --> 00:46:38,719
Speaker 4: then it's like, oh, maybe not. It's it's a yeah,

973
00:46:38,760 --> 00:46:39,760
Speaker 4: I wonder, Yeah.

974
00:46:39,560 --> 00:46:41,440
Speaker 1: Since when do Christians not have orgies?

975
00:46:42,760 --> 00:46:43,120
Speaker 2: Well?

976
00:46:43,480 --> 00:46:44,280
Speaker 1: Hello orgies?

977
00:46:45,160 --> 00:46:45,359
Speaker 2: Yeah?

978
00:46:45,440 --> 00:46:46,120
Speaker 4: I didn't know.

979
00:46:46,800 --> 00:46:50,480
Speaker 2: When do Christians not give money to save someone's? All?

980
00:46:52,040 --> 00:46:54,920
Speaker 4: Right? So you're like halfway out the door.

981
00:46:56,760 --> 00:46:59,319
Speaker 3: No, I wasn't even halfway out the door. I'd say

982
00:46:59,360 --> 00:47:04,880
Speaker 3: I was about hmm, yeah, like very little.

983
00:47:04,960 --> 00:47:05,560
Speaker 2: Like it was.

984
00:47:05,920 --> 00:47:09,239
Speaker 3: It was the beginnings of the questioning these things. And

985
00:47:09,320 --> 00:47:13,000
Speaker 3: it wasn't until I had like a real heart to

986
00:47:13,080 --> 00:47:16,560
Speaker 3: heart with my dad. I must have been thirteen year

987
00:47:17,000 --> 00:47:19,879
Speaker 3: twelve years old, probably, I think I asked them all

988
00:47:19,920 --> 00:47:23,280
Speaker 3: these questions about why she can channel and he doesn't,

989
00:47:23,400 --> 00:47:27,480
Speaker 3: and all these little inconsistencies with like because while we

990
00:47:27,480 --> 00:47:30,040
Speaker 3: were studying the Bible, like they would add in all

991
00:47:30,080 --> 00:47:33,160
Speaker 3: their other stuff with all their saints and all that stuff,

992
00:47:33,160 --> 00:47:36,080
Speaker 3: and you know, there were so many little holes here

993
00:47:36,120 --> 00:47:39,799
Speaker 3: and there and everything going on. And essentially, like the

994
00:47:39,880 --> 00:47:42,799
Speaker 3: end of the conversation, my dad was like, you have

995
00:47:42,880 --> 00:47:45,319
Speaker 3: to make this choice yourself. I can't I can't tell

996
00:47:45,360 --> 00:47:48,239
Speaker 3: you what to believe. Like it's you know, my dad

997
00:47:48,280 --> 00:47:51,280
Speaker 3: once again telling me you have to decide for yourself.

998
00:47:51,320 --> 00:47:55,120
Speaker 3: I can't give you the answers. And so that essentially

999
00:47:55,280 --> 00:47:57,440
Speaker 3: was the conversation that led me onto the road to

1000
00:47:58,200 --> 00:48:00,120
Speaker 3: being totally out of it. It was, you know, in

1001
00:48:00,120 --> 00:48:01,960
Speaker 3: a matter of six months later, I was like, yeah,

1002
00:48:02,000 --> 00:48:04,279
Speaker 3: this is this doesn't make any sense to me.

1003
00:48:04,320 --> 00:48:05,920
Speaker 2: Why is all this going on?

1004
00:48:06,280 --> 00:48:09,600
Speaker 5: Wow, that's so cool that your dad encourage you to question.

1005
00:48:09,680 --> 00:48:12,600
Speaker 5: I feel like that is kind of rare even outside

1006
00:48:12,640 --> 00:48:13,080
Speaker 5: of cults.

1007
00:48:13,800 --> 00:48:17,680
Speaker 3: No, it's incredible, Like as much as it was infuriating

1008
00:48:17,719 --> 00:48:22,279
Speaker 3: as a little kid, like, it's really I mean, yeah,

1009
00:48:22,440 --> 00:48:26,640
Speaker 3: helped shape like everything that I am today, just because

1010
00:48:26,800 --> 00:48:31,120
Speaker 3: I still look at everything, and I question everything because like,

1011
00:48:31,160 --> 00:48:34,040
Speaker 3: no matter how good something sounds or how bad something sounds,

1012
00:48:34,160 --> 00:48:34,520
Speaker 3: you know.

1013
00:48:34,800 --> 00:48:37,600
Speaker 2: There's always two sides and there's always.

1014
00:48:37,239 --> 00:48:39,239
Speaker 3: Something going on, and you have to be able to

1015
00:48:39,560 --> 00:48:43,319
Speaker 3: step back and look at something objectively to be able

1016
00:48:43,360 --> 00:48:46,360
Speaker 3: to figure out what's going on and not you know.

1017
00:48:46,640 --> 00:48:52,160
Speaker 5: Yeah, so yeah, yeah, was there a final straw for you?

1018
00:48:52,200 --> 00:48:53,440
Speaker 2: No, not even it was.

1019
00:48:53,520 --> 00:48:58,320
Speaker 3: It was a very like just just kind of falling

1020
00:48:58,480 --> 00:48:59,680
Speaker 3: slowly falling out of it.

1021
00:48:59,719 --> 00:49:00,600
Speaker 2: Like that time.

1022
00:49:00,960 --> 00:49:03,160
Speaker 3: My mom was super into it, and my older sister

1023
00:49:03,560 --> 00:49:06,920
Speaker 3: still was, and so it was very slow, like they

1024
00:49:06,960 --> 00:49:09,960
Speaker 3: would be going, you know, hey, we're going to this tonight,

1025
00:49:10,000 --> 00:49:11,960
Speaker 3: and I'll be like, oh, why don't I stay and

1026
00:49:12,000 --> 00:49:14,680
Speaker 3: watch the little ones tonight? Or why don't you know

1027
00:49:14,840 --> 00:49:17,719
Speaker 3: I have a wood project to work on, or you know,

1028
00:49:17,760 --> 00:49:20,480
Speaker 3: I would just kind of start coming up with the excuses,

1029
00:49:20,560 --> 00:49:22,840
Speaker 3: and you know, at towards the end, I remember a

1030
00:49:22,880 --> 00:49:26,040
Speaker 3: few times my mom like would force me to go,

1031
00:49:26,320 --> 00:49:28,880
Speaker 3: like you haven't been to service in forever, like you

1032
00:49:28,960 --> 00:49:31,880
Speaker 3: are going now, you know, we are going as a family,

1033
00:49:31,960 --> 00:49:35,040
Speaker 3: and so yeah, it was it was a slow process,

1034
00:49:35,080 --> 00:49:38,160
Speaker 3: but towards the end it was very much. Yeah, I

1035
00:49:38,239 --> 00:49:42,279
Speaker 3: was no longer believing anything, and which made it really

1036
00:49:42,320 --> 00:49:45,440
Speaker 3: strange because my mom was so into it and she

1037
00:49:45,560 --> 00:49:50,200
Speaker 3: believed so strongly that it was Yeah, But I think

1038
00:49:50,239 --> 00:49:54,120
Speaker 3: the final final straw that kind of helped completely was

1039
00:49:54,400 --> 00:49:58,080
Speaker 3: at that point in my parents' lives, since my dad,

1040
00:49:58,520 --> 00:50:01,640
Speaker 3: after flying back and forth Montana Los Angeles for like

1041
00:50:01,719 --> 00:50:04,120
Speaker 3: two three years, he just couldn't do it anymore, so

1042
00:50:04,200 --> 00:50:06,799
Speaker 3: he stopped working. So for like a couple of years,

1043
00:50:06,800 --> 00:50:08,760
Speaker 3: he just they my parents just live off with credit

1044
00:50:08,760 --> 00:50:11,680
Speaker 3: cards essentially and whatever money they had saved up. And

1045
00:50:11,719 --> 00:50:13,600
Speaker 3: then it got to the point where my dad was like,

1046
00:50:14,040 --> 00:50:16,279
Speaker 3: we have no money. We can only afford to live

1047
00:50:16,320 --> 00:50:19,399
Speaker 3: here for like another couple of months, and then there's

1048
00:50:19,440 --> 00:50:21,840
Speaker 3: nothing like living in Montana being part of the cult.

1049
00:50:21,880 --> 00:50:24,080
Speaker 3: Doesn't you know, we gave all our money to build

1050
00:50:24,120 --> 00:50:28,000
Speaker 3: bomb shelters, like there's nothing else coming in After long

1051
00:50:28,040 --> 00:50:30,319
Speaker 3: talk and they're like, all right, let's move back to California,

1052
00:50:30,520 --> 00:50:32,319
Speaker 3: because my dad was like, well, I need to be.

1053
00:50:32,960 --> 00:50:37,480
Speaker 3: California was kind of the place where alternative medicine was

1054
00:50:37,560 --> 00:50:39,759
Speaker 3: kind of like a big center of especially you know,

1055
00:50:39,840 --> 00:50:43,080
Speaker 3: they have the conference every year down south in Anaheim.

1056
00:50:43,200 --> 00:50:46,080
Speaker 3: That's like every year there's this huge conference, or at

1057
00:50:46,160 --> 00:50:49,880
Speaker 3: least used to be and and so I mean it

1058
00:50:49,920 --> 00:50:52,600
Speaker 3: was just known as as that's the place to be.

1059
00:50:52,760 --> 00:50:56,080
Speaker 3: So at that point in my in my dad's career here,

1060
00:50:56,200 --> 00:50:59,520
Speaker 3: he decided to become a consultant and kind of you know,

1061
00:51:00,040 --> 00:51:04,359
Speaker 3: step out of the actual managerial role. But once we

1062
00:51:04,440 --> 00:51:07,319
Speaker 3: moved away from it, like it was, my dad kind

1063
00:51:07,360 --> 00:51:09,440
Speaker 3: of completely stepped out of it because he didn't have

1064
00:51:09,520 --> 00:51:11,960
Speaker 3: to kind of pretend anymore to.

1065
00:51:11,480 --> 00:51:12,200
Speaker 2: Be part of it.

1066
00:51:12,239 --> 00:51:14,319
Speaker 3: And then once my dad, I saw my dad had

1067
00:51:14,360 --> 00:51:17,280
Speaker 3: completely snap out of it, I was like, oh, okay,

1068
00:51:17,360 --> 00:51:20,040
Speaker 3: I can be my own person now too, Like I

1069
00:51:20,080 --> 00:51:24,080
Speaker 3: don't have to be part of this to make my

1070
00:51:24,200 --> 00:51:26,560
Speaker 3: family like to be part of my family. I can

1071
00:51:26,640 --> 00:51:29,640
Speaker 3: kind of be my own And so yeah, it was

1072
00:51:29,800 --> 00:51:34,360
Speaker 3: really thanks to my dad that I was able to

1073
00:51:34,480 --> 00:51:36,680
Speaker 3: so quickly step out of it and the fact that

1074
00:51:36,719 --> 00:51:39,040
Speaker 3: I was able to question at an early age, because

1075
00:51:39,160 --> 00:51:42,760
Speaker 3: I was one of those kids that I literally believed

1076
00:51:42,880 --> 00:51:47,799
Speaker 3: everything like my parents said. Like my parents said to

1077
00:51:47,880 --> 00:51:50,560
Speaker 3: never lie, So I never lied. Literally, I never lied

1078
00:51:50,920 --> 00:51:54,200
Speaker 3: growing up. And it wasn't until I still remember the

1079
00:51:54,239 --> 00:51:58,680
Speaker 3: incident my mom had a watch. I was like eight,

1080
00:51:58,920 --> 00:52:01,600
Speaker 3: eight or nine, and I ended up breaking the watch,

1081
00:52:02,000 --> 00:52:04,200
Speaker 3: and so my mom went to I think, I don't

1082
00:52:04,200 --> 00:52:06,400
Speaker 3: remember the store target or something to return the watch.

1083
00:52:06,960 --> 00:52:09,760
Speaker 3: And so my mom goes, you know, I was talking

1084
00:52:09,800 --> 00:52:11,920
Speaker 3: for the lady to return it, and she's like, oh,

1085
00:52:11,960 --> 00:52:14,640
Speaker 3: this watch stopped working. And I was like mortified. I

1086
00:52:14,680 --> 00:52:16,759
Speaker 3: was like, Mom, that's not true. I'm the one that

1087
00:52:16,800 --> 00:52:17,160
Speaker 3: broke it.

1088
00:52:17,239 --> 00:52:20,480
Speaker 2: Like I thought my mom was just mis misunderstanding the situation.

1089
00:52:20,680 --> 00:52:23,279
Speaker 3: And so I was like no, Mom, like, I'm I'm

1090
00:52:23,320 --> 00:52:25,320
Speaker 3: the one that broke it, like it's not it was

1091
00:52:25,520 --> 00:52:28,960
Speaker 3: an accident, like I'm I'm the fault here, and my

1092
00:52:29,040 --> 00:52:32,040
Speaker 3: mom just flipped out, like she went full like angry.

1093
00:52:32,120 --> 00:52:34,560
Speaker 2: She's like get into the car, like just yelling like.

1094
00:52:34,760 --> 00:52:36,880
Speaker 3: Forced me to walk because of carse like I was

1095
00:52:36,920 --> 00:52:41,080
Speaker 3: totally pointing out to the the employee that she was

1096
00:52:41,160 --> 00:52:42,160
Speaker 3: lying her ass off.

1097
00:52:43,040 --> 00:52:45,560
Speaker 2: And so I just remember like that moment. I was

1098
00:52:45,600 --> 00:52:46,040
Speaker 2: just stunned.

1099
00:52:46,080 --> 00:52:48,400
Speaker 3: I was sitting in the car by myself, going wait,

1100
00:52:48,600 --> 00:52:51,000
Speaker 3: but she said to never lie and why did she

1101
00:52:51,080 --> 00:52:55,080
Speaker 3: get mad like and so like that was again also

1102
00:52:55,120 --> 00:52:57,560
Speaker 3: the moment where I was like, oh, my parents are

1103
00:52:57,640 --> 00:53:00,840
Speaker 3: aren't infallible, Like there there's some thing going on with

1104
00:53:00,920 --> 00:53:04,399
Speaker 3: them that they're also not always telling the truth in right.

1105
00:53:04,640 --> 00:53:07,279
Speaker 3: So because of that, if my dad hadn't been the

1106
00:53:07,280 --> 00:53:09,720
Speaker 3: one that kind of always pushed me to question everything,

1107
00:53:09,840 --> 00:53:11,480
Speaker 3: I would have just been like, Oh, I believe you,

1108
00:53:11,560 --> 00:53:14,319
Speaker 3: and everything's perfect and the cult is the best thing ever.

1109
00:53:14,440 --> 00:53:16,840
Speaker 5: So, yeah, did your mom Your mom moved back to

1110
00:53:16,920 --> 00:53:18,520
Speaker 5: California with you guys.

1111
00:53:19,239 --> 00:53:20,839
Speaker 2: Yeah, it ended up.

1112
00:53:21,080 --> 00:53:24,280
Speaker 3: I mean essentially it was my dad kind of said

1113
00:53:24,760 --> 00:53:27,040
Speaker 3: I'm not going to be flying because my mom was like, oh,

1114
00:53:27,080 --> 00:53:29,719
Speaker 3: you can just get a job in Los Angeles or

1115
00:53:29,760 --> 00:53:32,799
Speaker 3: whatever and to continue flying. He's like, no, like that's hell,

1116
00:53:33,000 --> 00:53:35,919
Speaker 3: Like that's you know, because even when he was still

1117
00:53:35,960 --> 00:53:38,360
Speaker 3: doing it, he was only working four days a week,

1118
00:53:38,600 --> 00:53:40,360
Speaker 3: and because the rest of the time it was traveling.

1119
00:53:40,360 --> 00:53:42,319
Speaker 3: He would spend a day or two with us on

1120
00:53:42,360 --> 00:53:46,160
Speaker 3: the weekend if that, and then I mean usually only

1121
00:53:46,200 --> 00:53:47,480
Speaker 3: a day and a half because it was you know,

1122
00:53:47,520 --> 00:53:50,480
Speaker 3: he'd flying late Friday night, would be exhausted, and then

1123
00:53:50,520 --> 00:53:53,359
Speaker 3: spends Saturday with us. But even then he had been

1124
00:53:53,400 --> 00:53:56,000
Speaker 3: working and traveling, so half the time he didn't even

1125
00:53:56,080 --> 00:53:58,799
Speaker 3: have the energy to like hang out with us. And

1126
00:53:58,880 --> 00:54:03,440
Speaker 3: so yeah, she said like, no, we're moving one hundred percent.

1127
00:54:03,760 --> 00:54:05,400
Speaker 3: And I think also a large part of it was

1128
00:54:05,520 --> 00:54:08,520
Speaker 3: they didn't have the money without selling their current house,

1129
00:54:08,640 --> 00:54:12,080
Speaker 3: and so, I mean, because of finances, it ended up

1130
00:54:12,120 --> 00:54:15,640
Speaker 3: being like, no, we're leaving this whole thing behind.

1131
00:54:15,719 --> 00:54:18,560
Speaker 4: So I was just gonna ask if your mom stopped believing.

1132
00:54:20,560 --> 00:54:23,759
Speaker 3: Many years later, she slowly fell out of it for

1133
00:54:24,200 --> 00:54:27,400
Speaker 3: at least another ten years. I feel like she was

1134
00:54:27,560 --> 00:54:30,360
Speaker 3: kind of really into it and not really. She was

1135
00:54:30,400 --> 00:54:33,880
Speaker 3: still into it all the beliefs, and with more and

1136
00:54:33,920 --> 00:54:36,080
Speaker 3: more of these rumors started spreading around, so she was

1137
00:54:36,160 --> 00:54:38,880
Speaker 3: kind of like, oh, maybe the person isn't like the best,

1138
00:54:38,960 --> 00:54:41,080
Speaker 3: but the beliefs are still on point.

1139
00:54:40,840 --> 00:54:42,000
Speaker 2: You know, or the kind of that.

1140
00:54:42,280 --> 00:54:45,680
Speaker 3: And then it wasn't until about ten years or so

1141
00:54:45,800 --> 00:54:49,040
Speaker 3: later she was like stopped doing that and then found

1142
00:54:49,040 --> 00:54:52,080
Speaker 3: some crystals or tarot cards or pendulums and went into

1143
00:54:52,120 --> 00:54:52,720
Speaker 3: that instead.

1144
00:54:55,560 --> 00:54:58,560
Speaker 5: But she's guiding her own practice now, I imagine, right,

1145
00:54:59,200 --> 00:55:01,320
Speaker 5: not being led by another prophet lady.

1146
00:55:01,160 --> 00:55:05,520
Speaker 1: Only no, no, no, good, good good. What do your

1147
00:55:05,560 --> 00:55:07,160
Speaker 1: parents think about the whole situation?

1148
00:55:07,280 --> 00:55:11,280
Speaker 3: Now, Well, that's kind of a tough one, right because

1149
00:55:11,320 --> 00:55:14,000
Speaker 3: my dad he's the kind of person to try to

1150
00:55:14,040 --> 00:55:15,680
Speaker 3: live his life without regrets.

1151
00:55:16,040 --> 00:55:17,520
Speaker 2: And so I mean, we've kind of.

1152
00:55:17,600 --> 00:55:19,560
Speaker 3: We've talked a lot about it, where you know, I've

1153
00:55:19,600 --> 00:55:21,839
Speaker 3: been like, well, would you change it? And he's like, well,

1154
00:55:22,080 --> 00:55:24,440
Speaker 3: I mean, of course I would change it if I could,

1155
00:55:24,719 --> 00:55:27,440
Speaker 3: you know, because I remember when I was I must

1156
00:55:27,480 --> 00:55:30,239
Speaker 3: have been fourteen or something, and I asked my I

1157
00:55:30,280 --> 00:55:31,960
Speaker 3: had a conversation with the dad. I said, you know,

1158
00:55:32,000 --> 00:55:34,080
Speaker 3: if Annie and I had said we're staying with you

1159
00:55:34,120 --> 00:55:36,839
Speaker 3: in Los Angeles, would you have you know, stayed with us,

1160
00:55:36,880 --> 00:55:38,399
Speaker 3: just the two of us. And he's like, well, yeah,

1161
00:55:38,600 --> 00:55:41,640
Speaker 3: like I would have been fine. I just didn't want

1162
00:55:41,800 --> 00:55:43,600
Speaker 3: to have no kids, you know, and we could have

1163
00:55:43,640 --> 00:55:47,239
Speaker 3: all flown together, you know. So But then, I mean,

1164
00:55:47,440 --> 00:55:50,440
Speaker 3: he always says, since we can't change in the past,

1165
00:55:50,520 --> 00:55:54,200
Speaker 3: I have to accept that we made our choices. We

1166
00:55:54,320 --> 00:55:57,400
Speaker 3: tried to do what we thought was right. But you know,

1167
00:55:57,800 --> 00:56:00,680
Speaker 3: we're still human after all. Whereas I think my mom

1168
00:56:00,719 --> 00:56:03,400
Speaker 3: was very much like, oh, it's fine whatever, you know,

1169
00:56:03,480 --> 00:56:06,640
Speaker 3: whatever happens happened, it was meant to happen, and where

1170
00:56:07,360 --> 00:56:10,520
Speaker 3: my dad is, yeah, it's very hard, tries very hard

1171
00:56:10,560 --> 00:56:11,759
Speaker 3: not to be better about it.

1172
00:56:11,800 --> 00:56:14,279
Speaker 4: I think I'm better about it. Are the are the

1173
00:56:14,280 --> 00:56:17,280
Speaker 4: bomb shelters still there? Like what happened with I'm.

1174
00:56:17,120 --> 00:56:19,880
Speaker 3: Sure they must be, because as far as I know,

1175
00:56:19,960 --> 00:56:23,520
Speaker 3: there's still a tiny like the cult leader has died,

1176
00:56:24,680 --> 00:56:28,280
Speaker 3: I know that. And her she had two or three children,

1177
00:56:28,320 --> 00:56:30,440
Speaker 3: and none of them wanted anything to do with her.

1178
00:56:30,480 --> 00:56:33,719
Speaker 3: They were like, no, this is this is nuts because

1179
00:56:33,760 --> 00:56:35,840
Speaker 3: she was kind of in the beginning grooming them to

1180
00:56:35,880 --> 00:56:38,320
Speaker 3: take over. Like there was a few times I remember

1181
00:56:38,400 --> 00:56:40,719
Speaker 3: she would give her things and her son was like

1182
00:56:40,800 --> 00:56:43,000
Speaker 3: sitting next to her, like she was setting them up

1183
00:56:43,040 --> 00:56:46,600
Speaker 3: to be like kind of takeover. And so but I'm

1184
00:56:46,600 --> 00:56:49,080
Speaker 3: pretty sure the kids wanted nothing to do with it.

1185
00:56:49,160 --> 00:56:52,040
Speaker 3: And so there's still kind of like how my mom was,

1186
00:56:52,080 --> 00:56:54,440
Speaker 3: where you know, oh the person failed, but you know,

1187
00:56:54,480 --> 00:56:56,600
Speaker 3: we still kind of all these beliefs are still kind

1188
00:56:56,600 --> 00:56:59,440
Speaker 3: of good. So there's a really tiny group still.

1189
00:56:59,320 --> 00:57:00,280
Speaker 2: Keeping it together.

1190
00:57:00,400 --> 00:57:03,800
Speaker 3: But I don't know who owns those bomb shelters now.

1191
00:57:04,400 --> 00:57:05,360
Speaker 1: One day it will be me.

1192
00:57:06,280 --> 00:57:08,880
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, when I'm a multimillionaire, I will buy the

1193
00:57:08,880 --> 00:57:10,200
Speaker 5: bomb shelters.

1194
00:57:10,719 --> 00:57:15,279
Speaker 3: The best part was the because in our house, we

1195
00:57:15,400 --> 00:57:17,080
Speaker 3: since we had our own bomb shelter. We had our

1196
00:57:17,120 --> 00:57:19,680
Speaker 3: house and then we had a garage that was like

1197
00:57:20,000 --> 00:57:23,920
Speaker 3: thirty feet away and there was actually a tunnel to

1198
00:57:24,000 --> 00:57:28,320
Speaker 3: get from from the bomb shelter under our house, we

1199
00:57:28,360 --> 00:57:31,120
Speaker 3: can crawl up into the garage and there was a

1200
00:57:31,160 --> 00:57:34,800
Speaker 3: big lookout tower like it was only like twenty or

1201
00:57:34,840 --> 00:57:37,880
Speaker 3: fifteen feet high, but from so from our bomb shelter,

1202
00:57:37,960 --> 00:57:40,560
Speaker 3: you can up to this lookout tower to see.

1203
00:57:40,400 --> 00:57:42,160
Speaker 2: If the world was really destroyed.

1204
00:57:43,000 --> 00:57:45,160
Speaker 3: So I remember the kid that was the best place

1205
00:57:45,200 --> 00:57:48,320
Speaker 3: to play because I mean there's a I mean it

1206
00:57:48,360 --> 00:57:50,400
Speaker 3: wasn't giant because ours was smaller, so I was like,

1207
00:57:50,440 --> 00:57:52,120
Speaker 3: you know, you had to crawl through both.

1208
00:57:52,160 --> 00:57:53,880
Speaker 2: Still, it was a tunnel, which.

1209
00:57:54,160 --> 00:57:55,760
Speaker 4: Yeah, signed me up.

1210
00:57:56,160 --> 00:57:59,960
Speaker 1: Dude. Hell yeah, it's like it's Kimmy Schmidt. But more

1211
00:58:00,080 --> 00:58:05,080
Speaker 1: are fun because you got a tower exactly due to

1212
00:58:05,160 --> 00:58:05,479
Speaker 1: a bomb.

1213
00:58:05,600 --> 00:58:07,920
Speaker 5: A bomb shelter party sounds really fun. I feel like

1214
00:58:07,960 --> 00:58:09,480
Speaker 5: that would be like the best.

1215
00:58:11,920 --> 00:58:14,600
Speaker 4: It's like a combination of a field party in a rave.

1216
00:58:15,600 --> 00:58:19,320
Speaker 5: Yeah, this is not relevant to what we're talking about,

1217
00:58:19,320 --> 00:58:21,479
Speaker 5: but there is a bomb shelter. I saw a house

1218
00:58:21,520 --> 00:58:24,000
Speaker 5: with a bomb shelter underneath that I saw for sale

1219
00:58:24,000 --> 00:58:26,640
Speaker 5: in Las Vegas once, and it had the It was

1220
00:58:26,680 --> 00:58:30,880
Speaker 5: this huge, expansive like underground like basically warehouse, but it

1221
00:58:30,960 --> 00:58:34,960
Speaker 5: was decorated to simulate the outdoors. So it had fake grass,

1222
00:58:35,080 --> 00:58:40,000
Speaker 5: fake skies, fake trees, little ponds, so fucking cool and weird. Wow,

1223
00:58:41,160 --> 00:58:45,240
Speaker 5: I want to play there parties again, which will be

1224
00:58:45,280 --> 00:58:49,040
Speaker 5: seen well Killian. So do you feel like you've learned

1225
00:58:49,080 --> 00:58:51,000
Speaker 5: any lessons from this experience?

1226
00:58:51,160 --> 00:58:53,160
Speaker 1: How do you feel about it? How are you doing now?

1227
00:58:54,000 --> 00:58:55,080
Speaker 2: Never trust anyone?

1228
00:58:57,560 --> 00:59:01,120
Speaker 3: No, I mean, I'm sure it's guard me in ways

1229
00:59:01,160 --> 00:59:04,600
Speaker 3: I'm not aware of and affected me. But for the

1230
00:59:04,600 --> 00:59:08,160
Speaker 3: most part, because I was like so young for most

1231
00:59:08,200 --> 00:59:10,360
Speaker 3: of it, for me, it was just kind of part

1232
00:59:10,400 --> 00:59:12,320
Speaker 3: of growing up. You know, you work on a farm

1233
00:59:12,520 --> 00:59:17,080
Speaker 3: during the weekends, and because school was so normalized. Yes,

1234
00:59:17,160 --> 00:59:19,360
Speaker 3: I went to Bible study, but you know, later on

1235
00:59:19,440 --> 00:59:22,440
Speaker 3: in life, all my friends like also went to Bible

1236
00:59:22,520 --> 00:59:25,120
Speaker 3: study school when they were younger, So it wasn't like

1237
00:59:25,200 --> 00:59:28,120
Speaker 3: my day to day even though like the individual things

1238
00:59:28,120 --> 00:59:30,680
Speaker 3: were a little weird, Like my day to day kind

1239
00:59:30,680 --> 00:59:33,280
Speaker 3: of was kind of the same. Well except for the

1240
00:59:33,320 --> 00:59:36,120
Speaker 3: fact that I wasn't allowed to watch TV or listen

1241
00:59:36,160 --> 00:59:39,120
Speaker 3: to music rock music especially it was the music of

1242
00:59:39,200 --> 00:59:40,840
Speaker 3: the Devil obviously.

1243
00:59:43,280 --> 00:59:45,720
Speaker 2: And so like that really screwed me up.

1244
00:59:45,760 --> 00:59:49,040
Speaker 3: Because once I started going to normal schools, like everyone

1245
00:59:49,160 --> 00:59:51,560
Speaker 3: was start talking about TV shows and they're like, oh,

1246
00:59:51,600 --> 00:59:52,920
Speaker 3: growing up, did you ever watch this?

1247
00:59:53,040 --> 00:59:54,360
Speaker 2: And I was like, what's that?

1248
00:59:54,720 --> 00:59:54,800
Speaker 5: Like?

1249
00:59:55,800 --> 00:59:56,880
Speaker 2: Never seen that?

1250
00:59:57,000 --> 01:00:00,280
Speaker 3: And so other than that, I always felt like I

1251
01:00:00,320 --> 01:00:03,320
Speaker 3: had a normal child that as far as you know,

1252
01:00:03,800 --> 01:00:06,960
Speaker 3: compared to everyone else, because even though like I had

1253
01:00:06,960 --> 01:00:10,440
Speaker 3: these weird outcrop things like yeah, we weren't bomb shelters,

1254
01:00:10,600 --> 01:00:13,160
Speaker 3: but we didn't actually live there, so it wasn't, you know,

1255
01:00:13,280 --> 01:00:15,960
Speaker 3: it wasn't. I still lived the house and still went

1256
01:00:16,000 --> 01:00:16,600
Speaker 3: to a school.

1257
01:00:16,840 --> 01:00:20,640
Speaker 5: So right, so the constant fear of nuclear war didn't

1258
01:00:20,640 --> 01:00:22,440
Speaker 5: scar you permanently, you don't know?

1259
01:00:22,880 --> 01:00:24,080
Speaker 1: No, Okay, that good?

1260
01:00:25,600 --> 01:00:27,960
Speaker 4: Wow, that is such a cool story.

1261
01:00:28,160 --> 01:00:30,960
Speaker 5: I think you're first bomb shelter guest. Congratulations.

1262
01:00:31,120 --> 01:00:34,120
Speaker 2: Wow, glad to be the first bomb shelter.

1263
01:00:34,280 --> 01:00:39,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, you win that game that everyone wants to win.

1264
01:00:39,840 --> 01:00:42,160
Speaker 1: What do you do now? What do you do for

1265
01:00:42,160 --> 01:00:42,520
Speaker 1: a living?

1266
01:00:42,640 --> 01:00:47,320
Speaker 3: I'm a visual effects artist, so I do post production

1267
01:00:48,520 --> 01:00:50,720
Speaker 3: on television shows and movies.

1268
01:00:51,640 --> 01:00:52,080
Speaker 4: Nice.

1269
01:00:53,120 --> 01:00:55,760
Speaker 5: See you can grow up in a cult and have

1270
01:00:55,800 --> 01:00:57,560
Speaker 5: a regular, cool job.

1271
01:00:58,480 --> 01:00:59,160
Speaker 2: That exactly.

1272
01:01:00,240 --> 01:01:02,760
Speaker 4: I mean, I just want to talk to There's so

1273
01:01:02,840 --> 01:01:05,200
Speaker 4: many similarities between how I grew up and how you

1274
01:01:05,240 --> 01:01:08,880
Speaker 4: grew up. It's probably the most similar story to mine. Oddly.

1275
01:01:09,320 --> 01:01:11,200
Speaker 4: So I'm just really going to talk to you some

1276
01:01:11,320 --> 01:01:14,720
Speaker 4: dancy if we have all the same psychological illnesses, because

1277
01:01:14,760 --> 01:01:17,840
Speaker 4: you seem doing way better with.

1278
01:01:17,920 --> 01:01:21,000
Speaker 2: All that with the I'm with you on that one, so.

1279
01:01:21,200 --> 01:01:25,200
Speaker 4: Okay, great yeah yeah, ok oh my god, I mean

1280
01:01:25,280 --> 01:01:26,720
Speaker 4: every word out of your mouth. I was just like,

1281
01:01:26,760 --> 01:01:31,120
Speaker 4: that's what happened to me, and that's so cool, so cool.

1282
01:01:31,200 --> 01:01:33,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, if you ever buy Jenny's, come by. We'll have

1283
01:01:33,640 --> 01:01:34,480
Speaker 3: some wine together.

1284
01:01:34,880 --> 01:01:36,160
Speaker 4: Ill. She's so fun.

1285
01:01:36,240 --> 01:01:36,720
Speaker 1: I need to come.

1286
01:01:36,760 --> 01:01:36,880
Speaker 3: Oh.

1287
01:01:36,960 --> 01:01:38,880
Speaker 5: I thought you meant the ice cream place and I

1288
01:01:38,920 --> 01:01:40,480
Speaker 5: was really excited, but you didn't.

1289
01:01:40,640 --> 01:01:46,320
Speaker 4: So whatever, we'll bring Jenny's to Jenny Lola. It'll be fun.

1290
01:01:46,680 --> 01:01:48,640
Speaker 1: So thank you so much for sharing your story.

1291
01:01:48,800 --> 01:01:50,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, thanks for having me on.

1292
01:01:50,600 --> 01:01:54,160
Speaker 5: Alrighty then I just realized I had a dream that

1293
01:01:54,200 --> 01:01:58,320
Speaker 5: we had music cues in our This is not interesting.

1294
01:02:01,080 --> 01:02:03,880
Speaker 4: This is the cult of telling people your dreams, even

1295
01:02:03,920 --> 01:02:07,480
Speaker 4: when you know that they don't care. I'm the president

1296
01:02:07,600 --> 01:02:08,280
Speaker 4: of that cult.

1297
01:02:09,360 --> 01:02:13,280
Speaker 5: Go on, whatever, I dreamed we had a fancier podcast

1298
01:02:13,360 --> 01:02:15,440
Speaker 5: with like really cool music cues that would come in

1299
01:02:15,520 --> 01:02:18,000
Speaker 5: right at this point, that was my dream. Maybe one

1300
01:02:18,080 --> 01:02:20,160
Speaker 5: day this dream will become real. This is what I

1301
01:02:20,200 --> 01:02:23,040
Speaker 5: dream about Megan, I'll think about this work. Okay, So

1302
01:02:23,160 --> 01:02:25,600
Speaker 5: here's the question. You actually kind of said this in

1303
01:02:25,920 --> 01:02:30,080
Speaker 5: the interview though, but would you join the Church Universal

1304
01:02:30,080 --> 01:02:30,720
Speaker 5: and Triumphant?

1305
01:02:30,760 --> 01:02:31,280
Speaker 1: Do you think?

1306
01:02:31,440 --> 01:02:33,160
Speaker 4: What did I say during the interview.

1307
01:02:33,360 --> 01:02:35,920
Speaker 5: Basically, it's like a Christian group, but it's very new

1308
01:02:35,960 --> 01:02:40,439
Speaker 5: agy and they go to like crystal fucking conventions.

1309
01:02:40,000 --> 01:02:43,120
Speaker 4: Right right, right, right? Yeah? I would be all in, Yeah,

1310
01:02:43,160 --> 01:02:46,520
Speaker 4: tell me why well, because it just sounds like fun

1311
01:02:46,680 --> 01:02:51,120
Speaker 4: and I feel like my Psyche is one second away

1312
01:02:51,160 --> 01:02:55,440
Speaker 4: from agreeing to go build a secret world in Montana,

1313
01:02:55,600 --> 01:02:59,560
Speaker 4: Like I'm that scared. So yeah, I could get into that.

1314
01:02:59,840 --> 01:03:02,160
Speaker 5: We should not think it's as cool as we do

1315
01:03:02,280 --> 01:03:04,560
Speaker 5: that those those bomb shelters.

1316
01:03:04,120 --> 01:03:05,800
Speaker 4: Exist, true, true?

1317
01:03:06,120 --> 01:03:07,600
Speaker 1: Why do we think it's so cool?

1318
01:03:07,920 --> 01:03:09,880
Speaker 5: It just sounds like I don't know, I feel like

1319
01:03:09,920 --> 01:03:11,680
Speaker 5: I would be like a little kid going into a

1320
01:03:11,720 --> 01:03:14,280
Speaker 5: treehouse in a Norman about bomb shelter.

1321
01:03:14,960 --> 01:03:16,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, but you do.

1322
01:03:16,560 --> 01:03:18,560
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm like, what are they? What do they look like?

1323
01:03:18,720 --> 01:03:21,840
Speaker 4: Where are they? I've told people. People are like that's

1324
01:03:21,880 --> 01:03:24,240
Speaker 4: so cool, and then I'm like, no, it really is.

1325
01:03:24,400 --> 01:03:27,520
Speaker 4: Here's the deal, And you know, I just I'm obsessed.

1326
01:03:28,400 --> 01:03:32,880
Speaker 5: Wait do you mean with Killian's groups bombshelters specifically. Okay, yes,

1327
01:03:33,000 --> 01:03:36,200
Speaker 5: not just going around constantly telling people about bomb shelters

1328
01:03:36,240 --> 01:03:36,760
Speaker 5: in general.

1329
01:03:37,120 --> 01:03:39,960
Speaker 4: No, like just this week, you know, I've had a

1330
01:03:39,960 --> 01:03:42,360
Speaker 4: few conversations with people where I'm like, can you fucking

1331
01:03:42,400 --> 01:03:45,600
Speaker 4: believe this shit? And also how do we get there?

1332
01:03:45,640 --> 01:03:47,000
Speaker 4: Because it's just crazy.

1333
01:03:47,120 --> 01:03:49,560
Speaker 5: I mean, I really am tempted to do some detective

1334
01:03:49,600 --> 01:03:52,280
Speaker 5: work and like go on a fucking Montana road trip

1335
01:03:52,280 --> 01:03:53,680
Speaker 5: because it sounds so fun.

1336
01:03:54,200 --> 01:03:55,880
Speaker 1: Do a shoot there? Imagine?

1337
01:03:56,080 --> 01:03:58,800
Speaker 5: Yes, maybe when we do our TV show, that's one of.

1338
01:03:58,720 --> 01:03:59,640
Speaker 1: The places we'll go.

1339
01:04:00,160 --> 01:04:01,479
Speaker 4: Ah, that'd be so cool.

1340
01:04:01,640 --> 01:04:04,320
Speaker 5: We don't have a tvg guys, but we might at

1341
01:04:04,360 --> 01:04:04,960
Speaker 5: some point.

1342
01:04:05,520 --> 01:04:05,920
Speaker 1: You don't know.

1343
01:04:06,200 --> 01:04:11,600
Speaker 5: No one has specifically said that we don't ever, except

1344
01:04:11,680 --> 01:04:13,919
Speaker 5: me right now saying that we don't but.

1345
01:04:15,400 --> 01:04:18,000
Speaker 4: Hopefully, But nobody said that we can't forever.

1346
01:04:19,080 --> 01:04:19,920
Speaker 1: Sure, right right?

1347
01:04:20,400 --> 01:04:22,600
Speaker 5: Yeah, someone's gonna give us money to go to bomb

1348
01:04:22,600 --> 01:04:26,520
Speaker 5: shelters in Montana, please, that's and to take ayahuasca with

1349
01:04:26,760 --> 01:04:27,760
Speaker 5: fucking shamans.

1350
01:04:28,320 --> 01:04:30,040
Speaker 4: Oh god, it's so good.

1351
01:04:30,200 --> 01:04:33,840
Speaker 5: All right, Well, this has been a delightful time, It

1352
01:04:33,960 --> 01:04:34,680
Speaker 5: truly has.

1353
01:04:35,080 --> 01:04:37,200
Speaker 4: Thank you guys so much for listening. And you know,

1354
01:04:37,240 --> 01:04:40,240
Speaker 4: the drill remember to follow your gut, watch out for

1355
01:04:40,280 --> 01:04:45,240
Speaker 4: red flax, and never ever ever trust me by