1 00:00:00,400 --> 00:00:03,920 Speaker 1: The cheerleaders at a gym in Buffalo have been recording 2 00:00:03,960 --> 00:00:09,240 Speaker 1: themselves to make a new documentary where the news reporters 3 00:00:09,240 --> 00:00:13,160 Speaker 1: because one year ago a mass shooting changed their lives. 4 00:00:13,200 --> 00:00:15,400 Speaker 1: He just walked around shot all the black people. The 5 00:00:15,480 --> 00:00:18,440 Speaker 1: cheer squad, most of whom are black, had to figure 6 00:00:18,480 --> 00:00:21,160 Speaker 1: out how to go on and how to compete. I 7 00:00:21,280 --> 00:00:23,840 Speaker 1: wanted to win for them more than anything this season. 8 00:00:24,000 --> 00:00:28,640 Speaker 1: Listen to the embedded podcast from NPR within the iHeartRadio app, 9 00:00:28,800 --> 00:00:32,720 Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Carol Fisher and 10 00:00:32,760 --> 00:00:36,800 Speaker 1: I'm hosting a podcast called The Girlfriends. It's Las Vegas, 11 00:00:36,960 --> 00:00:40,200 Speaker 1: it's the nineteen nineties, and it is time to find 12 00:00:40,240 --> 00:00:44,560 Speaker 1: a husband. There were four Jewish doctors who were felt 13 00:00:44,600 --> 00:00:48,040 Speaker 1: to be eligible bachelors. One of them was of the 14 00:00:48,640 --> 00:00:53,239 Speaker 1: Baron bat On paper he was perfect, but in reality, 15 00:00:53,440 --> 00:00:58,080 Speaker 1: this guy's a wacko. He shouted to the point went unconscious. 16 00:00:58,280 --> 00:01:00,560 Speaker 1: I would call him and I would say, I know 17 00:01:00,600 --> 00:01:03,080 Speaker 1: you killed my sister. You can listen to The girl 18 00:01:03,160 --> 00:01:07,440 Speaker 1: Friends on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you 19 00:01:07,480 --> 00:01:10,479 Speaker 1: get your podcasts. This is the story of a man 20 00:01:10,560 --> 00:01:15,000 Speaker 1: who's fascinated me. His name was Sweet Daddy Grace, and 21 00:01:15,040 --> 00:01:18,319 Speaker 1: that's a name you don't forget. He was a visionary 22 00:01:18,400 --> 00:01:21,399 Speaker 1: who built a fortune as a black man during Jim 23 00:01:21,480 --> 00:01:25,800 Speaker 1: Crow during the Depression, but today not many people know 24 00:01:25,840 --> 00:01:28,920 Speaker 1: about him. The race sort of wiped out, and I 25 00:01:29,000 --> 00:01:33,000 Speaker 1: wonder if this was done intentionally. Listen to Sweet Daddy 26 00:01:33,040 --> 00:01:36,720 Speaker 1: Grace on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you 27 00:01:36,760 --> 00:01:41,120 Speaker 1: get your podcasts. I'm will daily. For years, I've been 28 00:01:41,160 --> 00:01:43,880 Speaker 1: on the road playing shows and seeing America through live music. 29 00:01:44,360 --> 00:01:46,360 Speaker 1: This summer, I'll hit the stage. Who Season two of 30 00:01:46,440 --> 00:01:51,000 Speaker 1: Sound of Our Town ten cities twelve episodes every other Thursday. 31 00:01:51,400 --> 00:01:53,680 Speaker 1: We explore the live music venues and culture of a 32 00:01:53,720 --> 00:01:57,000 Speaker 1: new American city. With each new episode, our tour continues 33 00:01:57,000 --> 00:01:58,520 Speaker 1: into the kind of venues you want to get to 34 00:01:58,600 --> 00:02:03,200 Speaker 1: when you landed in Detroit, Providence, Denver, or Seattle. Listen 35 00:02:03,200 --> 00:02:06,520 Speaker 1: to Sound of Our Town on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 36 00:02:06,920 --> 00:02:12,680 Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts. I kept seeing like 37 00:02:12,720 --> 00:02:15,639 Speaker 1: helicopters and cops passing this coming back the other way, 38 00:02:15,960 --> 00:02:19,280 Speaker 1: and I've seen her grandma, her grandma from me. She's gone, 39 00:02:20,000 --> 00:02:23,520 Speaker 1: all right, He's kind of frozen. Angela ran out of 40 00:02:23,520 --> 00:02:27,120 Speaker 1: the Peterson Road house to chase Tabatha up with a shotgun. 41 00:02:28,200 --> 00:02:32,080 Speaker 1: Gac and George followed, and Panna was told by Jake 42 00:02:32,639 --> 00:02:35,160 Speaker 1: not to leave the house or he would chop off 43 00:02:35,240 --> 00:02:44,640 Speaker 1: her wgs. This is the Piked and Massacre returned to 44 00:02:44,720 --> 00:02:49,960 Speaker 1: Pike County season four, episode ten. In their own words, 45 00:02:51,120 --> 00:02:54,640 Speaker 1: I'm Courtney Armstrong, a television producer at KATI Studios, along 46 00:02:54,720 --> 00:02:58,840 Speaker 1: with Stephanie Lydecker and Jeff Shane. It's been a revealing, 47 00:02:59,080 --> 00:03:02,080 Speaker 1: gut wrenching try all thus far. While the jury has 48 00:03:02,120 --> 00:03:05,440 Speaker 1: heard reams of incriminating evidence against Jake Wagner, we must 49 00:03:05,480 --> 00:03:08,680 Speaker 1: remember that Jake, who's already pled guilty, is not the 50 00:03:08,720 --> 00:03:12,760 Speaker 1: one on trial. Thus far, the testimony against George Wagner 51 00:03:12,880 --> 00:03:16,760 Speaker 1: himself has been far more scant. There's no DNA evidence 52 00:03:16,800 --> 00:03:19,280 Speaker 1: that puts George at the Roden's homes on the night 53 00:03:19,320 --> 00:03:23,720 Speaker 1: of April twenty first, twenty sixteen. There's also no evidence 54 00:03:23,760 --> 00:03:27,480 Speaker 1: that George was implicated in Jake's custody battle with Hanname Roden. 55 00:03:28,360 --> 00:03:30,880 Speaker 1: On the other hand, the defense has thus far failed 56 00:03:30,919 --> 00:03:33,400 Speaker 1: to produce an alibi for where George was during the 57 00:03:33,520 --> 00:03:36,920 Speaker 1: night of the killings. It's important to note that George 58 00:03:36,960 --> 00:03:40,120 Speaker 1: Wagner the fourth, along with his father Billy Wagner, whose 59 00:03:40,160 --> 00:03:43,600 Speaker 1: trial is upcoming, deny any wrongdoing and have pleaded not 60 00:03:43,680 --> 00:03:48,920 Speaker 1: guilty to all charges. Here's Stephanie and Jeff. It appears 61 00:03:48,920 --> 00:03:51,840 Speaker 1: that Angie Kinnepp were the special prosecutor is really telling 62 00:03:51,920 --> 00:03:54,880 Speaker 1: us a story right now, painting a picture about the 63 00:03:55,720 --> 00:03:59,160 Speaker 1: lives of the Wagners, how they were incredibly a mesh together, 64 00:04:00,040 --> 00:04:04,960 Speaker 1: but so far nothing very specific that implicates George specifically 65 00:04:05,000 --> 00:04:08,440 Speaker 1: to that night. What the prosecution is trying to do 66 00:04:08,600 --> 00:04:10,520 Speaker 1: is really paint the picture that all four of them 67 00:04:10,560 --> 00:04:13,000 Speaker 1: were in on this together from the start. And look, 68 00:04:13,080 --> 00:04:16,799 Speaker 1: we've heard a lot of different stories about the Wagner family. 69 00:04:17,160 --> 00:04:21,840 Speaker 1: They technically operated like a mob or like a cult 70 00:04:22,040 --> 00:04:26,520 Speaker 1: in that Angela Wagner was very controlling and had a 71 00:04:26,680 --> 00:04:30,560 Speaker 1: very odd relationship with both of her boys, specifically George. 72 00:04:31,160 --> 00:04:35,839 Speaker 1: But again, those might paint a messy picture of a family. 73 00:04:36,120 --> 00:04:39,479 Speaker 1: But does that mean that George is guilty of mass murder? 74 00:04:39,760 --> 00:04:42,440 Speaker 1: I have to assume there's more evidence to come. That 75 00:04:42,600 --> 00:04:44,680 Speaker 1: kind of piggybacks on a point I want to bring up, 76 00:04:44,680 --> 00:04:47,880 Speaker 1: which is just how many witnesses there are as we 77 00:04:48,320 --> 00:04:52,159 Speaker 1: have seen the state is really telling a full story 78 00:04:52,200 --> 00:04:54,400 Speaker 1: from start to finish, which includes a lot of people 79 00:04:54,480 --> 00:04:57,360 Speaker 1: that don't on the surface, have anything to do with 80 00:04:57,440 --> 00:05:00,760 Speaker 1: the actual night in question. I spoke to legal analysts 81 00:05:00,800 --> 00:05:03,200 Speaker 1: and expert Mike Allen about this, and he said that 82 00:05:03,200 --> 00:05:06,120 Speaker 1: the amount of witnesses is completely up to the prosecution. 83 00:05:06,279 --> 00:05:09,720 Speaker 1: They can have three or three hundred, it's all up 84 00:05:09,760 --> 00:05:11,560 Speaker 1: to them, and all they have to do is provide 85 00:05:11,560 --> 00:05:15,279 Speaker 1: a witness list to the judge and defense during the 86 00:05:15,320 --> 00:05:20,400 Speaker 1: discovery process. There has to be some level of jury fatigue, right, 87 00:05:20,440 --> 00:05:24,560 Speaker 1: so three hundred witnesses would be pretty extreme if we're 88 00:05:24,560 --> 00:05:28,160 Speaker 1: telling a peripheral story. Judge Deering did have to approve 89 00:05:28,400 --> 00:05:31,680 Speaker 1: each witness, so he clearly thinks that something about it 90 00:05:31,880 --> 00:05:34,479 Speaker 1: is acceptable enough to be allowed in the courtroom. It's 91 00:05:34,520 --> 00:05:37,360 Speaker 1: just a really interesting spot to be at in the trial. 92 00:05:37,440 --> 00:05:40,360 Speaker 1: Where is it one thing to hear bad things and 93 00:05:40,480 --> 00:05:43,160 Speaker 1: to know that, frankly, the Wagoners may have just been 94 00:05:43,240 --> 00:05:47,120 Speaker 1: very bad people. Is that enough or do we need 95 00:05:47,160 --> 00:05:50,520 Speaker 1: to have more evidence, specifically putting George at the scene. 96 00:05:50,720 --> 00:05:54,880 Speaker 1: I'm so curious about how that plays out. The following 97 00:05:54,920 --> 00:05:58,600 Speaker 1: testimony digs deeper into the Wagner clan, and also uncovers 98 00:05:58,640 --> 00:06:01,960 Speaker 1: testimony that for the first time shows that George was 99 00:06:02,040 --> 00:06:06,640 Speaker 1: in fact in his family's Thrall, good afternoon, how are you. 100 00:06:06,800 --> 00:06:10,280 Speaker 1: It's good? Can you please state your name? And why 101 00:06:10,279 --> 00:06:12,240 Speaker 1: don't you go ahead and spell your first name and 102 00:06:12,480 --> 00:06:17,000 Speaker 1: spell your last name? Alan Holdron, c r e Y 103 00:06:17,760 --> 00:06:22,799 Speaker 1: Joel Drian Corey. How old are you be? Thirty? Next months? 104 00:06:23,040 --> 00:06:26,080 Speaker 1: Pay nine? And can you tell us where you live? 105 00:06:27,320 --> 00:06:35,839 Speaker 1: You okay? Corey Holdron was Hannahme Rodin's boyfriend at the 106 00:06:35,880 --> 00:06:39,039 Speaker 1: time of her death. When they began dating, Hannahme was 107 00:06:39,080 --> 00:06:41,719 Speaker 1: pregnant with her daughter, who she shared with ex boyfriend 108 00:06:41,839 --> 00:06:45,880 Speaker 1: Charlie Gilly. Corey Holdron committed to Hannah because he wanted 109 00:06:45,920 --> 00:06:49,839 Speaker 1: a family and was in love with Hannah. Ma, she's 110 00:06:49,880 --> 00:06:51,920 Speaker 1: not love man's in love with her. I mean she's 111 00:06:51,960 --> 00:06:55,520 Speaker 1: the best thing at me really was in our relationship. 112 00:06:55,600 --> 00:06:59,640 Speaker 1: We never fought. She helped me through everything. And can 113 00:06:59,680 --> 00:07:02,719 Speaker 1: you tell tell us at the time that you started 114 00:07:02,760 --> 00:07:08,840 Speaker 1: seeing her, did you have an addiction problem? Yeah? Yeah, yeah, 115 00:07:09,040 --> 00:07:14,240 Speaker 1: that's a dragadic and to painting pills. And she laid 116 00:07:14,240 --> 00:07:16,679 Speaker 1: on my side, said on my side through the whole 117 00:07:16,760 --> 00:07:20,480 Speaker 1: withdrawals and all the everything, you know what I mean. 118 00:07:20,800 --> 00:07:24,160 Speaker 1: Nobody would do that. Nobody does that unless she loves somebody. 119 00:07:24,840 --> 00:07:29,120 Speaker 1: And she did going through at all. And and you 120 00:07:29,840 --> 00:07:34,440 Speaker 1: did you make a commitment to her unborn child as well? Yeah, 121 00:07:35,160 --> 00:07:40,440 Speaker 1: because well she wasn't with Jake, she was separated from him, 122 00:07:40,480 --> 00:07:42,960 Speaker 1: and she said it wasn't his. She told me who 123 00:07:42,960 --> 00:07:46,679 Speaker 1: it was. Who it was, Charlie Gillies, which Hannah's brother. 124 00:07:47,160 --> 00:07:49,560 Speaker 1: I was dying for her family, you know what I mean. 125 00:07:50,120 --> 00:07:54,760 Speaker 1: And I told him that if he agrees to step 126 00:07:54,800 --> 00:07:56,960 Speaker 1: back and just let me, you know, don't all of us, 127 00:07:57,080 --> 00:07:58,720 Speaker 1: that I would take care of her and I would 128 00:07:58,800 --> 00:08:02,239 Speaker 1: name her. And so I did. I named her Britain, 129 00:08:02,880 --> 00:08:04,800 Speaker 1: kind of my kind of Billiard. I was the first 130 00:08:04,800 --> 00:08:10,680 Speaker 1: one to hold her. So you stayed with her rat 131 00:08:10,720 --> 00:08:13,320 Speaker 1: for pregnancy. And you were actually at the hospital when 132 00:08:13,400 --> 00:08:22,920 Speaker 1: she gave her yeah, up to the day water actually yeah, yeah? Um. 133 00:08:22,960 --> 00:08:24,880 Speaker 1: And did you also go to some of her appointments 134 00:08:24,920 --> 00:08:31,360 Speaker 1: with her priority. Yeah. According to Corey Holdron, Hannah May 135 00:08:31,520 --> 00:08:33,680 Speaker 1: was also a devoted mother to the little girls she 136 00:08:33,760 --> 00:08:39,679 Speaker 1: shared with Jake Wagner. She's a great mom. Yeah, She's 137 00:08:39,720 --> 00:08:43,320 Speaker 1: really mom and ever seen her yador and every senior 138 00:08:43,640 --> 00:08:47,000 Speaker 1: hate her or nothing like that. Corey continued speaking about 139 00:08:47,000 --> 00:08:49,680 Speaker 1: when Jake Wagner brought the toddler he shared with Hannah 140 00:08:49,679 --> 00:08:52,800 Speaker 1: May to see her newborn sister in the hospital. During 141 00:08:52,840 --> 00:08:55,840 Speaker 1: this visit, Jake implied that the baby could be his 142 00:08:56,120 --> 00:08:58,120 Speaker 1: because she had a toe shaped like him and his 143 00:08:58,160 --> 00:09:01,400 Speaker 1: family members. I didn't make it fussing out or anything. 144 00:09:03,520 --> 00:09:08,360 Speaker 1: He was just all the different though, dark hair, dark 145 00:09:08,440 --> 00:09:13,960 Speaker 1: black hair, like I don't know, it was just different. 146 00:09:15,840 --> 00:09:18,839 Speaker 1: He got the holder and everything like like it was 147 00:09:19,080 --> 00:09:21,040 Speaker 1: like it was his thought. Kid, He like like, I 148 00:09:21,080 --> 00:09:26,520 Speaker 1: don't know, he thought it was his maybe Okay, And 149 00:09:27,920 --> 00:09:30,800 Speaker 1: do you remember any comments um that he made about 150 00:09:30,840 --> 00:09:33,640 Speaker 1: any of the physical characteristics, something about her toe like 151 00:09:34,559 --> 00:09:36,640 Speaker 1: like something that he goes a wagoner thing. I don't 152 00:09:37,840 --> 00:09:40,040 Speaker 1: know what was wrong with it. I hadn't seen anything 153 00:09:40,040 --> 00:09:43,040 Speaker 1: wrong with it, but commented something about her toby and 154 00:09:43,040 --> 00:09:48,880 Speaker 1: a wager thing. Yeah, we're going to take a break. 155 00:09:49,160 --> 00:09:55,440 Speaker 1: We'll be back in a moment. Oh. I'm Carol Fisher, 156 00:09:55,600 --> 00:09:58,720 Speaker 1: and I'm hosting a podcast called The Girl Friends. Back 157 00:09:58,760 --> 00:10:01,680 Speaker 1: in the nineteen ninety in Las Vegas, a few of 158 00:10:01,760 --> 00:10:06,240 Speaker 1: us dated the most eligible bachelor in town. Bob, he 159 00:10:06,600 --> 00:10:12,280 Speaker 1: spoke several languages, he did medical missionary work, and he 160 00:10:12,520 --> 00:10:16,440 Speaker 1: was Jewish. He was perfect on paper, but he wasn't. 161 00:10:16,720 --> 00:10:20,439 Speaker 1: He really wasn't. He shouted into the point that she 162 00:10:20,640 --> 00:10:25,600 Speaker 1: went unconscious. Bob could lie about anything, but only takes 163 00:10:25,760 --> 00:10:29,800 Speaker 1: the one time when somebody ends up dead. Unfortunately for Bob, 164 00:10:30,040 --> 00:10:33,040 Speaker 1: us girlfriends know how to fight back. I wanted him 165 00:10:33,080 --> 00:10:35,760 Speaker 1: to pay for his crime. He needed to be put 166 00:10:35,800 --> 00:10:37,880 Speaker 1: to justice. I'll be honest with you. If I saw 167 00:10:37,960 --> 00:10:39,880 Speaker 1: him right now, I'd spit on him. I would call 168 00:10:39,960 --> 00:10:42,800 Speaker 1: him and I would say, I know you killed my sister. 169 00:10:43,160 --> 00:10:46,120 Speaker 1: I will always hound you and haunt you. You can 170 00:10:46,160 --> 00:10:50,439 Speaker 1: listen to the girlfriends on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, 171 00:10:50,679 --> 00:10:55,400 Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts from iHeart podcasts. Whitney 172 00:10:55,520 --> 00:10:59,040 Speaker 1: hell is going on here. Everyone has their limits. I'd 173 00:10:59,040 --> 00:11:01,560 Speaker 1: never confronted us situation like this. I just thought it 174 00:11:01,559 --> 00:11:04,400 Speaker 1: was just a really terrible, immoral thing, a line they 175 00:11:04,440 --> 00:11:07,679 Speaker 1: won't cross. I was stunned, and I just said, no, 176 00:11:07,960 --> 00:11:10,840 Speaker 1: we're killing people. You may never have to face that 177 00:11:10,960 --> 00:11:15,520 Speaker 1: decision when you find yourself at that line. Aren't ricin 178 00:11:15,720 --> 00:11:18,960 Speaker 1: and somebody needs to just for once, give everybody the 179 00:11:18,960 --> 00:11:23,720 Speaker 1: whole truth, like this is evil and the only person 180 00:11:23,760 --> 00:11:27,200 Speaker 1: who can sound the alarm is you. I wasn't just 181 00:11:27,200 --> 00:11:32,120 Speaker 1: going to sit silently. Buy from iHeart Podcasts. These are 182 00:11:32,120 --> 00:11:35,160 Speaker 1: the whistleblowers. If you are disloyal, things are going to 183 00:11:35,200 --> 00:11:38,080 Speaker 1: happen to speak out disgrace to our gun. Evil play 184 00:11:38,240 --> 00:11:44,000 Speaker 1: should be prosecuted when power corrupts, conscience is the last 185 00:11:44,040 --> 00:11:48,520 Speaker 1: line of defense. I'm Miles Taylor. Listen to the Whistleblowers 186 00:11:48,559 --> 00:11:52,320 Speaker 1: on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get 187 00:11:52,320 --> 00:12:02,400 Speaker 1: your podcasts. My name's the Very Cox. I'm an actress, producer, fashionista, 188 00:12:02,520 --> 00:12:05,439 Speaker 1: and host of The Laverne Cock Show. You may remember 189 00:12:05,559 --> 00:12:09,880 Speaker 1: my award winning first season. I've been pretty busy. There's 190 00:12:09,920 --> 00:12:13,400 Speaker 1: always time to touch incredible guests about important things people 191 00:12:13,440 --> 00:12:15,640 Speaker 1: like me have been screaming for years. We've got to 192 00:12:15,720 --> 00:12:18,120 Speaker 1: watch the Supreme Court. What they're doing is wrong, what 193 00:12:18,240 --> 00:12:20,959 Speaker 1: they're doing is evil. They will take things away and 194 00:12:21,000 --> 00:12:23,880 Speaker 1: I can only hope that Dobbs is that like Pearl 195 00:12:23,920 --> 00:12:26,360 Speaker 1: Harbor moment. Girl, You and I both know what it 196 00:12:26,440 --> 00:12:28,600 Speaker 1: took to just get through the day in New York 197 00:12:28,600 --> 00:12:31,719 Speaker 1: City and get home in one piece and so the 198 00:12:31,760 --> 00:12:34,120 Speaker 1: fact that we're here and what you've achieved and what 199 00:12:34,280 --> 00:12:38,640 Speaker 1: I've achieved, you know, that's momentous. It's not just sitting 200 00:12:38,679 --> 00:12:41,320 Speaker 1: around complaining about some bills. The only reason that you 201 00:12:41,400 --> 00:12:44,280 Speaker 1: might think, as Chase said, that we're always miserable is 202 00:12:44,320 --> 00:12:47,480 Speaker 1: because people are constantly attacking us and we're constantly noticing it. 203 00:12:47,840 --> 00:12:50,760 Speaker 1: Listen to the Laverne Cox Show on the iHeartRadio app, 204 00:12:50,920 --> 00:12:55,360 Speaker 1: Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Be sure 205 00:12:55,360 --> 00:13:00,400 Speaker 1: to subscribe and share everybody. We know they're are a 206 00:13:00,400 --> 00:13:02,839 Speaker 1: ton of podcasts out there. Well, we have one we 207 00:13:02,880 --> 00:13:04,840 Speaker 1: would love for you to check out. It is called 208 00:13:04,880 --> 00:13:08,520 Speaker 1: The pen Pals Podcast with Daniel Van Kirk and Rory Scovell. 209 00:13:08,800 --> 00:13:11,920 Speaker 1: We are both stand up comedians where actors were writers, 210 00:13:11,920 --> 00:13:14,400 Speaker 1: but now most of all, we are your pen pals. 211 00:13:14,480 --> 00:13:17,319 Speaker 1: Every single episode we get two letters that we read 212 00:13:17,679 --> 00:13:20,240 Speaker 1: from our listeners, our new pen pals. It can be 213 00:13:20,280 --> 00:13:22,640 Speaker 1: about anything going on in their life, and sometimes we're 214 00:13:22,640 --> 00:13:25,440 Speaker 1: also joined by guests like Will Farrell. You're gonna bring 215 00:13:25,440 --> 00:13:27,000 Speaker 1: you up in front of the group. I'm gonna punch 216 00:13:27,040 --> 00:13:28,920 Speaker 1: you as hard as I can in the stomach. Rose burn. 217 00:13:29,160 --> 00:13:35,839 Speaker 1: This is West Hollywood. Keep it clean. That considered, Brian, 218 00:13:36,000 --> 00:13:38,439 Speaker 1: I'm just showing you that my mind is quick, if 219 00:13:38,880 --> 00:13:41,640 Speaker 1: not that funny. And Mandy Moore, we're all crossing the 220 00:13:41,679 --> 00:13:44,360 Speaker 1: line together. Listen to the pen Pals podcast on Will 221 00:13:44,400 --> 00:13:47,640 Speaker 1: Ferrell's Big Money Players Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple 222 00:13:47,679 --> 00:13:50,760 Speaker 1: Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts, and cirely your 223 00:13:50,840 --> 00:14:03,520 Speaker 1: new pen Pals Daniel van Kirk and Rory Scobel. When 224 00:14:03,600 --> 00:14:07,080 Speaker 1: Corey Holtron learned from Kenneth Roden's daughter Kendra that the 225 00:14:07,120 --> 00:14:10,320 Speaker 1: love of his life, Hanname Rodin, was killed, he was 226 00:14:10,360 --> 00:14:15,920 Speaker 1: in shock. I got up. I was around eight, maybe 227 00:14:15,920 --> 00:14:18,439 Speaker 1: it was learner than that, but I wondered. My sisters 228 00:14:19,280 --> 00:14:23,280 Speaker 1: and me and her wife got in her truck and 229 00:14:23,360 --> 00:14:27,520 Speaker 1: we went to Quarter Lamber. Like I kept seeing like 230 00:14:27,560 --> 00:14:31,800 Speaker 1: helicopters and like cops and like crazy like passionists going 231 00:14:31,800 --> 00:14:34,320 Speaker 1: back the other way. I thinking of it, you know 232 00:14:34,320 --> 00:14:36,640 Speaker 1: what I mean, I've went to the quarter. We got 233 00:14:36,640 --> 00:14:38,960 Speaker 1: to Carter Lamber and by the time we got there 234 00:14:38,960 --> 00:14:42,320 Speaker 1: and pulled in, Kindred called me and said that something 235 00:14:42,360 --> 00:14:45,320 Speaker 1: happened that I needed to get to her house. Now. 236 00:14:45,840 --> 00:14:48,720 Speaker 1: She went telling me, really what happened? She said, they're 237 00:14:48,720 --> 00:14:52,920 Speaker 1: wrong I know what's up, man, So I had my 238 00:14:52,960 --> 00:14:57,520 Speaker 1: sister's wife turn them around and go there. So Bibe 239 00:14:57,560 --> 00:15:00,760 Speaker 1: went down instead down thirty two. We went down, said 240 00:15:01,000 --> 00:15:06,080 Speaker 1: seventy two the backside, you know. And that time I 241 00:15:06,160 --> 00:15:07,960 Speaker 1: got on her road. They stopped this right by her 242 00:15:08,000 --> 00:15:12,240 Speaker 1: brother's house. And I've seen her grandma and her grandma 243 00:15:12,240 --> 00:15:14,960 Speaker 1: father me. She's going, all right, he's gonna froze. I 244 00:15:15,040 --> 00:15:20,920 Speaker 1: think I didn't and it feel anything. I didn't understand it. Yeah. 245 00:15:21,800 --> 00:15:24,600 Speaker 1: Corey explained that he, Hannah May, and Kendra all went 246 00:15:24,640 --> 00:15:27,480 Speaker 1: fishing together before the night of the murderers. It was 247 00:15:27,520 --> 00:15:30,280 Speaker 1: a rainy afternoon and Hannah was all smiles as she 248 00:15:30,360 --> 00:15:33,440 Speaker 1: railed in a big catfish, but the mood soured when 249 00:15:33,600 --> 00:15:36,280 Speaker 1: Jake Wagner texted Hannah to see if he could watch 250 00:15:36,320 --> 00:15:41,200 Speaker 1: their daughter for the night. Here's Anteinette Levy, reporter for 251 00:15:41,320 --> 00:15:45,760 Speaker 1: Law and Crime. Hannah May had just given birth to 252 00:15:45,800 --> 00:15:49,040 Speaker 1: her newborn daughter and apparently wanted to get out of 253 00:15:49,040 --> 00:15:53,560 Speaker 1: the house, so they had someone watched the newborn and 254 00:15:53,960 --> 00:15:58,160 Speaker 1: they were out fishing and Jake Wagner actually she said, 255 00:15:58,320 --> 00:16:02,200 Speaker 1: which I thought was pretty stead. Kendra said that Jake 256 00:16:02,400 --> 00:16:07,360 Speaker 1: texted Hannah May and offered to keep How chilling is that? 257 00:16:09,640 --> 00:16:13,880 Speaker 1: Here again, Stephanie and Jeff, We've heard a lot about 258 00:16:13,960 --> 00:16:17,200 Speaker 1: Corey Holdron over the years and have never personally connected 259 00:16:17,240 --> 00:16:19,480 Speaker 1: to him. We have reached out over the years, but 260 00:16:19,840 --> 00:16:23,560 Speaker 1: respectfully didn't want to push too hard. So his testimony 261 00:16:24,800 --> 00:16:27,800 Speaker 1: is so interesting to me. First of all, we've always 262 00:16:27,800 --> 00:16:30,880 Speaker 1: heard that he is so kind and so nice, and 263 00:16:31,000 --> 00:16:33,280 Speaker 1: so sweet and was so in love with Hannah May, 264 00:16:33,720 --> 00:16:36,440 Speaker 1: so you can only imagine the destruction that has come 265 00:16:36,560 --> 00:16:39,320 Speaker 1: for him thereafter. We've heard over the years of multiple 266 00:16:39,400 --> 00:16:42,640 Speaker 1: times the story about Jake Wagner visiting Hannah May in 267 00:16:42,680 --> 00:16:45,080 Speaker 1: the hospital with her newborn baby, but to hear it 268 00:16:45,240 --> 00:16:49,360 Speaker 1: firsthand with Corey Holdron on the stand in the courtroom 269 00:16:49,400 --> 00:16:54,840 Speaker 1: is a much different experience. Following Corey Holdron, another witness 270 00:16:54,920 --> 00:17:00,000 Speaker 1: came to the stand and offered explosive testimony, this time 271 00:17:00,200 --> 00:17:04,199 Speaker 1: very focused on George Wagner the fourth It was the 272 00:17:04,240 --> 00:17:07,000 Speaker 1: first and a critically important juncture in the trial where 273 00:17:07,040 --> 00:17:11,640 Speaker 1: George's character came under scrutiny. The witness is Tabitha Clayton, 274 00:17:11,960 --> 00:17:15,760 Speaker 1: George's ex wife. She had a highly volatile and traumatic 275 00:17:15,840 --> 00:17:20,000 Speaker 1: history with the accused murderer. Like Jake and Hannah, Tabitha 276 00:17:20,040 --> 00:17:22,600 Speaker 1: and George were embroiled in their own custody battle over 277 00:17:22,640 --> 00:17:28,240 Speaker 1: their son. Tabitha and George met when Tabitha's mother was 278 00:17:28,280 --> 00:17:32,600 Speaker 1: working for the Wagner matriarch Frederica at her Flying w farm. 279 00:17:32,760 --> 00:17:35,119 Speaker 1: The pair married in two thousand and twelve, had a 280 00:17:35,160 --> 00:17:38,200 Speaker 1: son in the summer of twenty thirteen, and lived with Angela, 281 00:17:38,440 --> 00:17:42,800 Speaker 1: Jake and Billy Wagner. Tabitha and George ultimately divorced in 282 00:17:42,840 --> 00:17:46,919 Speaker 1: twenty fifteen. Tabitha explains how being with George came with 283 00:17:46,960 --> 00:17:49,520 Speaker 1: a litany of rules and restrictions that came down from 284 00:17:49,560 --> 00:17:55,400 Speaker 1: Angela Wagner life was taxing here Special Prosecutor Angie Kaneppa, 285 00:17:55,600 --> 00:17:59,200 Speaker 1: examining Tabitha on the stand, if you could just tell 286 00:17:59,280 --> 00:18:02,880 Speaker 1: us what the family dynamics were there when you lived 287 00:18:02,880 --> 00:18:10,320 Speaker 1: with the Wagner's. Very strange and controlling. Okay, So you 288 00:18:10,480 --> 00:18:15,560 Speaker 1: said previously that you were not allowed to visit your family, 289 00:18:15,680 --> 00:18:19,879 Speaker 1: and your family was not permitted to visit you, correct, yes, 290 00:18:20,560 --> 00:18:25,520 Speaker 1: And who made those determinations? It was Angela's house, so's 291 00:18:25,640 --> 00:18:33,199 Speaker 1: hurdles and so are you saying that it was Angela's choices, yes, okay, 292 00:18:33,520 --> 00:18:40,040 Speaker 1: And did George go along with those choices? Yes? And 293 00:18:40,240 --> 00:18:43,480 Speaker 1: can you tell us you said Angel's house, Angela's rules 294 00:18:43,880 --> 00:18:47,440 Speaker 1: that apply to anything other than just your family coming 295 00:18:47,440 --> 00:18:52,680 Speaker 1: and going, and applied basically everything. So tell us about 296 00:18:52,720 --> 00:18:58,240 Speaker 1: that cooking, cleaning, laundry and what do you mean by 297 00:18:58,280 --> 00:19:02,000 Speaker 1: that at all? How to be done the way that 298 00:19:02,080 --> 00:19:05,840 Speaker 1: she wanted it or have to either redo it or 299 00:19:05,880 --> 00:19:09,320 Speaker 1: she'll just do it or something. Angela Wagner had a 300 00:19:09,320 --> 00:19:11,719 Speaker 1: ban on certain types of sex that should be allowed 301 00:19:11,720 --> 00:19:15,720 Speaker 1: within George and Tabitha's marriage. In contrast, according to some, 302 00:19:16,040 --> 00:19:20,520 Speaker 1: she also crossed boundaries with her son George. According to Tabitha, 303 00:19:20,720 --> 00:19:23,439 Speaker 1: every night, Angela Wagner would kick Tabitha out of the 304 00:19:23,480 --> 00:19:26,480 Speaker 1: bedroom she shared with George so that Angela could have 305 00:19:26,480 --> 00:19:29,080 Speaker 1: some alone time with her son. She would scratch his 306 00:19:29,200 --> 00:19:32,400 Speaker 1: back while they caught up on the day. What were 307 00:19:32,440 --> 00:19:36,320 Speaker 1: the rules that Angela had before? The types of sexual 308 00:19:36,320 --> 00:19:39,880 Speaker 1: relations you could engage in with your husband. He wasn't 309 00:19:39,920 --> 00:19:42,520 Speaker 1: allowed to give blowjobs because you'd go to hill and 310 00:19:42,720 --> 00:19:46,560 Speaker 1: you had to only have sex to have children. And 311 00:19:46,800 --> 00:19:50,200 Speaker 1: is that something that she said to you? She said 312 00:19:50,240 --> 00:19:54,080 Speaker 1: it to me and George booth okay? When you were together, Yes, 313 00:19:54,960 --> 00:19:58,600 Speaker 1: where would you be when those conversations would occur? Usually 314 00:19:58,640 --> 00:20:05,360 Speaker 1: at the kitchen table or in the bedroom? Whose bedroom George's? Okay? 315 00:20:05,359 --> 00:20:08,520 Speaker 1: And would you stay in George's bedroom as long as 316 00:20:08,520 --> 00:20:10,679 Speaker 1: I was allowed to? Yes? So when you say, as 317 00:20:10,720 --> 00:20:12,280 Speaker 1: long as you were allowed to tell me what you're 318 00:20:12,359 --> 00:20:15,440 Speaker 1: talking about? Towards the end of the night, she would 319 00:20:15,520 --> 00:20:20,280 Speaker 1: usually have me leave so she could sit there and 320 00:20:20,520 --> 00:20:23,600 Speaker 1: scratch his back and talk about the day. So Angela 321 00:20:23,600 --> 00:20:26,800 Speaker 1: would come into the room that you shared with your husband, Yes, 322 00:20:27,600 --> 00:20:30,040 Speaker 1: and she would ask you to leave, and then she 323 00:20:30,040 --> 00:20:33,560 Speaker 1: would scratch his back and talk about the day. Yes. 324 00:20:34,520 --> 00:20:39,199 Speaker 1: How frequent of an occurrence was that every night? And 325 00:20:39,359 --> 00:20:41,879 Speaker 1: after she was done with that, would you return to 326 00:20:41,920 --> 00:20:46,520 Speaker 1: the room. Yes. After you had your son, where would 327 00:20:46,560 --> 00:20:50,760 Speaker 1: he sleep most of the time? He would sleep with 328 00:20:50,800 --> 00:20:55,159 Speaker 1: Angela and Billy? And again was that your choice? No? 329 00:20:55,960 --> 00:20:58,960 Speaker 1: Where did you want your son to sleep with me 330 00:20:59,119 --> 00:21:01,439 Speaker 1: in my bed or at least in the crib that 331 00:21:02,240 --> 00:21:05,440 Speaker 1: was bought for him? Okay? And where was that crib 332 00:21:05,520 --> 00:21:08,680 Speaker 1: located next to my bed? And who made the decision 333 00:21:08,720 --> 00:21:11,399 Speaker 1: that he would sleep with Angela and Billy instead of 334 00:21:11,640 --> 00:21:16,560 Speaker 1: with you, George and Angela? Can you tell us or 335 00:21:16,560 --> 00:21:20,520 Speaker 1: I guess I should say, had you ever shared with 336 00:21:20,640 --> 00:21:24,480 Speaker 1: George that you had been sexually abused as a child? 337 00:21:26,200 --> 00:21:29,480 Speaker 1: I did, but only because he had found up by 338 00:21:29,560 --> 00:21:33,560 Speaker 1: somebody else. Can you tell us what was George's reaction 339 00:21:33,600 --> 00:21:37,720 Speaker 1: to that? He was mad. He said he was going 340 00:21:37,800 --> 00:21:41,359 Speaker 1: to go kill him, and I told him know and 341 00:21:41,400 --> 00:21:45,800 Speaker 1: I said on him until he calmed down. The Wagner's 342 00:21:45,880 --> 00:21:48,680 Speaker 1: rules tightened around Tabitha after they learned she had chiefe 343 00:21:48,800 --> 00:21:52,399 Speaker 1: on George. From Tabitha's point of view, her infidelity was 344 00:21:52,400 --> 00:21:55,840 Speaker 1: a reaction to the family suffocating way of life. Was 345 00:21:55,920 --> 00:22:00,639 Speaker 1: there a time when you were unfaithful to George after 346 00:22:00,680 --> 00:22:03,760 Speaker 1: you were married? Yes? Okay? And was it during the 347 00:22:03,800 --> 00:22:07,440 Speaker 1: time that you were working at Crystal Springs? Yes? Did 348 00:22:07,760 --> 00:22:10,440 Speaker 1: George and the rest of them you only find out 349 00:22:10,560 --> 00:22:16,600 Speaker 1: about them? Yes? You ultimately told them. Yes? And at 350 00:22:16,680 --> 00:22:21,840 Speaker 1: that point did the restrictions in your life get even 351 00:22:21,840 --> 00:22:27,960 Speaker 1: more severier? Yes? Tell us what happened then? I had 352 00:22:28,440 --> 00:22:32,320 Speaker 1: gotten let go for my job. George took my phone 353 00:22:32,359 --> 00:22:35,040 Speaker 1: from me and factor he said it, gave it to 354 00:22:35,040 --> 00:22:39,639 Speaker 1: his mom. I wasn't allowed to answer the house phone 355 00:22:39,960 --> 00:22:45,800 Speaker 1: or check the mill or go outside by myself. And 356 00:22:46,200 --> 00:22:52,360 Speaker 1: when you informed them of this at that time where 357 00:22:52,400 --> 00:22:55,560 Speaker 1: you pregnant, Yes, okay. So you remained at the home 358 00:22:55,560 --> 00:23:00,600 Speaker 1: with the Wagner's. Yes, and then you remained there until 359 00:23:01,920 --> 00:23:05,200 Speaker 1: approximately a year after your son was born. Correct. Yes? 360 00:23:06,359 --> 00:23:09,120 Speaker 1: Did you feel when you were there that you could 361 00:23:09,160 --> 00:23:11,920 Speaker 1: parent your child in the way that you wanted to? No, 362 00:23:13,280 --> 00:23:18,200 Speaker 1: tell us about that. Every night before we went to bed, 363 00:23:18,800 --> 00:23:22,160 Speaker 1: I would be made to go take a nap while 364 00:23:22,200 --> 00:23:25,879 Speaker 1: Angela played with mission. So again, just more of the 365 00:23:27,080 --> 00:23:29,760 Speaker 1: her spending time with your child that you wanted to 366 00:23:29,800 --> 00:23:34,280 Speaker 1: spend time with. Yes, okay. Did you ever tell George 367 00:23:34,440 --> 00:23:37,040 Speaker 1: or have any discussions with him about wanting to have 368 00:23:37,200 --> 00:23:42,240 Speaker 1: your own place and no longer living with the extended family? Yes? Okay? 369 00:23:42,680 --> 00:23:46,080 Speaker 1: And what was his response? That we lived on a farm, 370 00:23:46,160 --> 00:23:49,760 Speaker 1: so we needed to live together. He was not interested 371 00:23:49,800 --> 00:23:56,080 Speaker 1: in moving out. Here's Stephanie. We met Tabitha's sister and 372 00:23:56,280 --> 00:23:59,320 Speaker 1: her mom years ago, and they've always think of this 373 00:23:59,600 --> 00:24:03,040 Speaker 1: picture about what life was like for Tabitha. We've also 374 00:24:03,080 --> 00:24:05,520 Speaker 1: reached out to her over the years. This is a 375 00:24:05,640 --> 00:24:08,520 Speaker 1: very big moment hearing her testimony for the first time. 376 00:24:09,080 --> 00:24:12,360 Speaker 1: Now finally hearing from her. I mean, imagine she's facing 377 00:24:12,440 --> 00:24:16,600 Speaker 1: the person who is on trial, her ex husband. She's 378 00:24:16,680 --> 00:24:19,080 Speaker 1: going to have to lock eyes with him and really 379 00:24:19,080 --> 00:24:22,119 Speaker 1: tell some stories, perhaps for the very first time. Again 380 00:24:22,160 --> 00:24:26,400 Speaker 1: it asks the question if Angela Wagner had a very 381 00:24:26,520 --> 00:24:30,400 Speaker 1: strange relationship with her sons. You know, we've always heard 382 00:24:30,440 --> 00:24:32,719 Speaker 1: this over the years, that she would cuddle with them, 383 00:24:32,960 --> 00:24:37,520 Speaker 1: and she would alienate the women who came into their 384 00:24:37,560 --> 00:24:43,960 Speaker 1: lives aka Tabitha also Hannah may rodin what does that mean? 385 00:24:44,680 --> 00:24:48,520 Speaker 1: Does that matter? If George didn't commit this murders, then 386 00:24:49,000 --> 00:24:52,919 Speaker 1: none of this matters whatsoever. He was perhaps a bad husband, 387 00:24:53,760 --> 00:24:56,280 Speaker 1: but again that doesn't make him a murderer. But if 388 00:24:56,280 --> 00:25:00,320 Speaker 1: he did do it and is convicted this, certainly it's 389 00:25:00,440 --> 00:25:04,920 Speaker 1: a very clear picture of a destructive and dysfunctional home, 390 00:25:05,359 --> 00:25:09,879 Speaker 1: but none of it really guarantees that George was there, 391 00:25:10,160 --> 00:25:16,320 Speaker 1: or that George was a trigger puller. Let's stop here 392 00:25:16,560 --> 00:25:23,199 Speaker 1: for another break. Oh, I'm Carol Fisher, and I'm hosting 393 00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:26,360 Speaker 1: a podcast called The Girl Friends. Back in the nineteen 394 00:25:26,480 --> 00:25:29,280 Speaker 1: nineties in Las Vegas, a few of us dated the 395 00:25:29,320 --> 00:25:35,280 Speaker 1: most eligible bachelor in town, Bob. He spoke several languages, 396 00:25:35,480 --> 00:25:40,480 Speaker 1: he did medical missionary work, and he was Jewish. He 397 00:25:40,680 --> 00:25:45,119 Speaker 1: was perfect on paper, but he wasn't. He really wasn't. 398 00:25:45,400 --> 00:25:49,280 Speaker 1: He shouted and to the point she went unconscious. Bob 399 00:25:49,480 --> 00:25:53,399 Speaker 1: could lie about anything, but only takes the one time 400 00:25:53,480 --> 00:25:57,760 Speaker 1: when somebody ends up dead. Unfortunately for Bob, us girlfriends 401 00:25:57,880 --> 00:26:00,360 Speaker 1: know how to fight back. I wanted him to pay 402 00:26:00,440 --> 00:26:03,440 Speaker 1: for his crime. He needed to be put to justice. 403 00:26:03,680 --> 00:26:05,240 Speaker 1: I'll be honest with you. If I saw him right now, 404 00:26:05,240 --> 00:26:07,560 Speaker 1: I'd spit on him. I would call him and I 405 00:26:07,600 --> 00:26:10,480 Speaker 1: would say, I know you killed my sister. I will 406 00:26:10,520 --> 00:26:13,480 Speaker 1: always hound you and haunt you. You can listen to 407 00:26:13,520 --> 00:26:18,120 Speaker 1: the girlfriends on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever 408 00:26:18,200 --> 00:26:22,760 Speaker 1: you get your podcasts from iHeart podcasts. Whitney. Hell is 409 00:26:22,800 --> 00:26:26,720 Speaker 1: going on here. Everyone has their limits. I'd never confronted 410 00:26:26,760 --> 00:26:28,679 Speaker 1: a situation like this. I just thought it was just 411 00:26:28,760 --> 00:26:32,040 Speaker 1: a really terrible, immoral thing, a line they won't cross. 412 00:26:32,280 --> 00:26:35,720 Speaker 1: I was stunned, and I just said, no, we're killing people. 413 00:26:36,160 --> 00:26:39,000 Speaker 1: You may never have to face that decision when you 414 00:26:39,040 --> 00:26:42,439 Speaker 1: find yourself at that line. Thou its ricin. R's ricin, 415 00:26:42,640 --> 00:26:45,840 Speaker 1: and somebody needs to just for once give everybody the 416 00:26:45,880 --> 00:26:50,240 Speaker 1: whole truth. I'm like, this is evil and the only 417 00:26:50,280 --> 00:26:53,960 Speaker 1: person who can sound the alarm is you. I wasn't 418 00:26:54,000 --> 00:26:58,719 Speaker 1: just going to sit silently. Buy from iHeart Podcasts. These 419 00:26:58,880 --> 00:27:01,960 Speaker 1: are the whistleblowers. If you are disloyal, thinks are going 420 00:27:02,040 --> 00:27:04,639 Speaker 1: to happen this week out disgrace to our gun, evil 421 00:27:04,640 --> 00:27:10,919 Speaker 1: and pol prosecuted. When power corrupts, conscience is the last 422 00:27:10,960 --> 00:27:15,400 Speaker 1: line of defense. I'm Miles Taylor. Listen to the Whistleblowers 423 00:27:15,480 --> 00:27:19,200 Speaker 1: on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get 424 00:27:19,240 --> 00:27:29,280 Speaker 1: your podcasts. My name's Laverne Cox. I'm an actress, producer, fashionista, 425 00:27:29,440 --> 00:27:32,360 Speaker 1: and host of The Laverne Cox Show. You may remember 426 00:27:32,440 --> 00:27:36,800 Speaker 1: my award winning first season. I've been pretty busy. There's 427 00:27:36,840 --> 00:27:40,320 Speaker 1: always time to touch incredible guests about important things people 428 00:27:40,359 --> 00:27:42,600 Speaker 1: like me have been screaming for years. We've got to 429 00:27:42,600 --> 00:27:45,040 Speaker 1: watch the Supreme Court. What they're doing is wrong, what 430 00:27:45,160 --> 00:27:47,880 Speaker 1: they're doing is evil. They will take things away and 431 00:27:47,920 --> 00:27:50,760 Speaker 1: I can only hope that Dobbs is that like Pearl 432 00:27:50,800 --> 00:27:53,280 Speaker 1: Harbor moment or you and I both know what it 433 00:27:53,359 --> 00:27:55,480 Speaker 1: took to just get through the day in New York 434 00:27:55,520 --> 00:27:58,600 Speaker 1: City and get home in one piece. And so the 435 00:27:58,640 --> 00:28:01,040 Speaker 1: fact that we're here and what you've achieved and what 436 00:28:01,200 --> 00:28:05,560 Speaker 1: I've achieved, You know, that's momentous. It's not just sitting 437 00:28:05,560 --> 00:28:08,199 Speaker 1: around complaining about some bills. The only reason that you 438 00:28:08,280 --> 00:28:11,159 Speaker 1: might think, as Chase said, that we're always miserable is 439 00:28:11,200 --> 00:28:14,399 Speaker 1: because people are constantly attacking us and we're constantly noticing it. 440 00:28:14,760 --> 00:28:17,640 Speaker 1: Listen to the Laverne Cox Show on the iHeartRadio app, 441 00:28:17,840 --> 00:28:22,240 Speaker 1: Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcast. Be sure 442 00:28:22,280 --> 00:28:27,239 Speaker 1: to subscribe and share everybody. We know there are a 443 00:28:27,320 --> 00:28:29,760 Speaker 1: ton of podcasts out there. Well, we have one we 444 00:28:29,800 --> 00:28:31,760 Speaker 1: would love for you to check out. It is called 445 00:28:31,800 --> 00:28:35,440 Speaker 1: The pen Pals Podcast with Daniel Van Kirk and Rory Scoville. 446 00:28:35,720 --> 00:28:38,800 Speaker 1: We are both stand up comedians where actors were writers, 447 00:28:38,840 --> 00:28:41,280 Speaker 1: but now most of all, we are your pen pals. 448 00:28:41,360 --> 00:28:44,240 Speaker 1: Every single episode we get two letters that we read 449 00:28:44,560 --> 00:28:47,160 Speaker 1: from our listeners, our new pen pals. It can be 450 00:28:47,200 --> 00:28:49,520 Speaker 1: about anything going on in their life, and sometimes we're 451 00:28:49,560 --> 00:28:52,320 Speaker 1: also joined by guests like Will Ferrell. I'm gonna bring 452 00:28:52,320 --> 00:28:53,640 Speaker 1: you up in front of the group and I'm gonna 453 00:28:53,640 --> 00:28:55,240 Speaker 1: punch you as hard as I can in the stomach. 454 00:28:55,320 --> 00:28:58,160 Speaker 1: Rose Burns. This is West Hollywood. We keep it clean, 455 00:28:58,320 --> 00:29:02,720 Speaker 1: Jotapato if you use by dre is that considered Colona o' brian, 456 00:29:02,880 --> 00:29:05,240 Speaker 1: I'm just showing you that my mind is quick, if 457 00:29:05,760 --> 00:29:08,560 Speaker 1: not that funny, and Mandy Moore, we're all crossing the 458 00:29:08,600 --> 00:29:11,280 Speaker 1: line together. Listen to the pen Pals podcast on Will 459 00:29:11,320 --> 00:29:15,040 Speaker 1: Ferrell's Big Money Players Network, on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, 460 00:29:15,240 --> 00:29:18,400 Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcast. Sincerely, your new pen Pals, 461 00:29:18,480 --> 00:29:32,160 Speaker 1: Daniel van Kirk and Rory Scobel. One night thing spun 462 00:29:32,160 --> 00:29:34,960 Speaker 1: out of control. After Tabitha didn't do the dishes that 463 00:29:35,080 --> 00:29:39,080 Speaker 1: Angela had told her to do, George Wagner turned physically abusive. 464 00:29:39,160 --> 00:29:42,800 Speaker 1: Tabitha says, this is the first testimony we've heard about 465 00:29:42,840 --> 00:29:46,640 Speaker 1: him being violent. Hell us, I'm Tabitha. We've talked a 466 00:29:46,720 --> 00:29:50,160 Speaker 1: little bit about how long you stayed there, what made 467 00:29:50,240 --> 00:29:54,240 Speaker 1: you leave? When you left, me and George were in 468 00:29:54,280 --> 00:29:59,200 Speaker 1: an argument in his slap okay, And if you can 469 00:29:59,280 --> 00:30:03,520 Speaker 1: tell us, first of all, do you recall when that happened? 470 00:30:04,720 --> 00:30:08,480 Speaker 1: A couple of months after my son's first birthday? Okay? 471 00:30:10,040 --> 00:30:12,400 Speaker 1: And when was your son born? Again? Is that July 472 00:30:12,560 --> 00:30:16,920 Speaker 1: of twenty thirteen, you said, a few months after his 473 00:30:16,960 --> 00:30:22,640 Speaker 1: first birthday? Yes, And can you tell us what led 474 00:30:22,800 --> 00:30:27,480 Speaker 1: up to that argument? Me not cleaning the kitchen after 475 00:30:27,720 --> 00:30:33,720 Speaker 1: Angela had made lunch. After Angela had done what made lunch? Okay? 476 00:30:34,840 --> 00:30:36,520 Speaker 1: And so tell us about that. How did you know 477 00:30:36,560 --> 00:30:39,800 Speaker 1: you were supposed to do that? She told me to 478 00:30:39,960 --> 00:30:42,120 Speaker 1: get it cleaned up while her and Hannah went to 479 00:30:42,120 --> 00:30:45,200 Speaker 1: pick up a toy for the kids. And did you 480 00:30:45,280 --> 00:30:49,320 Speaker 1: do that? Why not? Because my son had woke up, 481 00:30:49,360 --> 00:30:51,360 Speaker 1: so I led with him to take a nap so 482 00:30:51,400 --> 00:30:55,880 Speaker 1: he could take a nap. Okay, was your son already 483 00:30:55,960 --> 00:30:59,280 Speaker 1: napping at the time that, Yes, Angela asked you to 484 00:30:59,320 --> 00:31:03,320 Speaker 1: do that. Okay, And we are where the rest of 485 00:31:03,400 --> 00:31:05,760 Speaker 1: the people were with Jake and George at that time? 486 00:31:07,080 --> 00:31:11,480 Speaker 1: They were I think Jake was with Billy driving the 487 00:31:11,520 --> 00:31:17,560 Speaker 1: truck and George was building the shed that is beside 488 00:31:17,600 --> 00:31:21,600 Speaker 1: the house. Okay, Angela and Hannah come back and see 489 00:31:21,640 --> 00:31:25,640 Speaker 1: that it didn't clean up the mess. So what happens then? 490 00:31:27,400 --> 00:31:32,480 Speaker 1: Then me and Angelis start to argue, Okay, did you 491 00:31:32,560 --> 00:31:38,880 Speaker 1: explain to her what had happened? Yes? And what happened 492 00:31:38,880 --> 00:31:45,320 Speaker 1: then George didn't like that I was yelling at his mother. 493 00:31:47,640 --> 00:31:51,400 Speaker 1: How did you know he didn't like that what happened 494 00:31:52,240 --> 00:31:55,760 Speaker 1: He came in and started smacking me with a built 495 00:31:57,080 --> 00:31:59,720 Speaker 1: And we are in the house where you at that 496 00:31:59,760 --> 00:32:07,240 Speaker 1: time in the kitchen doorway, and what happened? Then we 497 00:32:07,480 --> 00:32:12,920 Speaker 1: went to the bedroom and when you see me, who 498 00:32:12,960 --> 00:32:16,520 Speaker 1: do you mean? Me and George? And what happened there? 499 00:32:17,760 --> 00:32:30,920 Speaker 1: He abducted your honor? Another basis is over um what 500 00:32:31,040 --> 00:32:36,719 Speaker 1: happened in the bedroom? Um? I was going to go 501 00:32:36,760 --> 00:32:39,000 Speaker 1: out and sit on the porch so I could calm down, 502 00:32:39,040 --> 00:32:42,040 Speaker 1: and I'll be so angry. So you wanted to go 503 00:32:42,080 --> 00:32:45,280 Speaker 1: outside to just be by yourself, calm down and not 504 00:32:45,360 --> 00:32:49,200 Speaker 1: be as angry? Yes, okay? Were you permitted to go outside? 505 00:32:49,320 --> 00:32:52,280 Speaker 1: You know? How were you not permitted to go outside? 506 00:32:53,840 --> 00:32:57,240 Speaker 1: George stood in front of the door and went moving. Okay, 507 00:32:57,880 --> 00:33:00,720 Speaker 1: And what did you do at that point? I bet 508 00:33:00,840 --> 00:33:06,640 Speaker 1: him and try to rope the nuts off. When you 509 00:33:06,680 --> 00:33:11,200 Speaker 1: say you bit him? Where did you bite him on 510 00:33:11,400 --> 00:33:15,680 Speaker 1: his arm up towards his armpit? Okay? And why did 511 00:33:15,680 --> 00:33:18,800 Speaker 1: you bite that area his arm? What was he doing 512 00:33:18,840 --> 00:33:22,360 Speaker 1: at that point? He had his door, his arm against 513 00:33:22,360 --> 00:33:25,760 Speaker 1: the door, not let me go through it? Did he 514 00:33:25,840 --> 00:33:29,320 Speaker 1: let you pass? At that point? He grew up? Ahold 515 00:33:29,360 --> 00:33:32,080 Speaker 1: of the nuts, so his arm moved. So that's where 516 00:33:32,160 --> 00:33:35,040 Speaker 1: I ran out the door. And then what did you do? 517 00:33:36,160 --> 00:33:40,840 Speaker 1: I started walking through the yard, and then George and 518 00:33:41,000 --> 00:33:44,479 Speaker 1: Angela came outside to try to tell me to come 519 00:33:44,520 --> 00:33:49,400 Speaker 1: back inside. And what happened outside? I told him that 520 00:33:49,520 --> 00:33:52,320 Speaker 1: I was not going to go back inside, that I 521 00:33:52,520 --> 00:33:55,960 Speaker 1: was going to leave, and so angel through a board 522 00:33:56,040 --> 00:33:59,360 Speaker 1: at me and then told George that she's going to 523 00:33:59,400 --> 00:34:02,560 Speaker 1: go inside to get a gun. When you say she 524 00:34:02,720 --> 00:34:06,520 Speaker 1: threw aboard at you, what kind of a board? All right? 525 00:34:06,560 --> 00:34:11,280 Speaker 1: Too good for? And both Angela and George were outside 526 00:34:11,320 --> 00:34:14,600 Speaker 1: with you at that point, yes, okay, and then Angela 527 00:34:14,719 --> 00:34:18,319 Speaker 1: said she's going to go get a gun. Yes. At 528 00:34:18,360 --> 00:34:25,759 Speaker 1: any point outside, did George have physical contact with you? Yeah, 529 00:34:27,320 --> 00:34:34,520 Speaker 1: before the argument got really worse. We were outside and 530 00:34:35,280 --> 00:34:37,960 Speaker 1: we were arguing, and he told man, I needed to 531 00:34:38,040 --> 00:34:40,719 Speaker 1: stop screaming. Where I was going to smack me? And 532 00:34:42,760 --> 00:34:45,040 Speaker 1: so I screamed out her and so he smacked me. 533 00:34:45,840 --> 00:34:50,239 Speaker 1: And where did he smack you? In the face? And 534 00:34:50,480 --> 00:34:56,879 Speaker 1: then what was your response to that? And I told 535 00:34:56,960 --> 00:34:59,800 Speaker 1: him that he just signed his two worspapers, that he 536 00:35:00,080 --> 00:35:05,319 Speaker 1: signed his dark because sacked Yes. So when Angela says 537 00:35:05,360 --> 00:35:08,520 Speaker 1: She's going to go get a gun. What do you do? 538 00:35:09,640 --> 00:35:13,359 Speaker 1: I continue going to her home, the yard and through 539 00:35:13,400 --> 00:35:18,719 Speaker 1: the face and I hid underneath the George's truck. And 540 00:35:19,600 --> 00:35:24,240 Speaker 1: to your knowledge, where were George for Angela? I assume 541 00:35:24,320 --> 00:35:26,959 Speaker 1: they were going in to get whichever gun they chose. 542 00:35:29,840 --> 00:35:34,400 Speaker 1: More on that next time. For more information on the 543 00:35:34,480 --> 00:35:38,320 Speaker 1: case and relevant photos, follow us on Instagram at Katie 544 00:35:38,520 --> 00:35:43,200 Speaker 1: Underscore Studios. The Piked and Masker is produced by Stephanie Lydecker, 545 00:35:43,400 --> 00:35:47,920 Speaker 1: Jeff Shane, Alan Wider, Andrew Arnow, Gabriel Castillo and me 546 00:35:48,320 --> 00:35:53,840 Speaker 1: Courtney Armstrong. Editing and sound designed by Jeff Tua. Music 547 00:35:54,000 --> 00:35:57,120 Speaker 1: by Jared Aston. The Piked and Masker is a production 548 00:35:57,160 --> 00:36:00,719 Speaker 1: of iHeartRadio and Katie Studios. For more our podcasts from 549 00:36:00,719 --> 00:36:04,920 Speaker 1: my Heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or 550 00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:07,400 Speaker 1: wherever you listen to your favorite shows.