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Speaker 1: All right, it is way up with angela yea, and

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Speaker 1: I'm here with my Wealth Wednesday partner, Stacy Tisdale.

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Speaker 2: Happy Wealth Wednesdays, everybody, Happy Financial Literacy Month.

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Speaker 1: That's right. And we've been talking about this behind the scenes,

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Speaker 1: but today we have a special guest joining us, Jill Courtiney.

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Speaker 2: Yes, hello, Hi, Jill. And Jill is with As You Sow,

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Speaker 2: which is an organization that helps individuals, institutional investors, and

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Speaker 2: corporations socially consciously invest and helps a lot of individuals

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Speaker 2: out there who might not know they do things like

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Speaker 2: own gunstocks in their four oh one ks, identify that

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Speaker 2: and make different choices. And that's one of the reasons

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Speaker 2: that we wanted to talk to you today. I know

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Speaker 2: everybody's so tired of these headlines about mass shootings over

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Speaker 2: and over again. Angel and I were just talking about

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Speaker 2: as of April tenth, there were eleven thousand, five hundred

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Speaker 2: and twenty three people died from gun violence in the

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Speaker 2: United States, and I think there's been one hundred and

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Speaker 2: forty mass shootings so far this year. Just this past Saturday,

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Speaker 2: four people were killed and twenty eight were injured in Dadeville, Alabama,

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Speaker 2: and then you, and we're talking about some of the

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Speaker 2: stats for Black Americans.

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Speaker 1: Yes, and so what we want to discuss today is

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Speaker 1: young Black Americans as fifteen to thirty four, experience the

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Speaker 1: highest rate of gun homicides in the US. And blacks

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Speaker 1: are also ten times more likely than wis to die

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Speaker 1: by gun homicide while just making up twelve point five

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Speaker 1: percent of the population, and black people are the victims

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Speaker 1: of sixty one percent of all gun homicides. I have

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Speaker 1: a four oh one K, I have my roth Ira

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Speaker 1: and truthfully, a lot of us, you know, we do

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Speaker 1: the match at work, and you don't even know where

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Speaker 1: your money is going, right, And so, Jill, can you

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Speaker 1: talk to us about as you sew and what you

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Speaker 1: are focused on?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so as you sew? We are shareholder advocates. So

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Speaker 3: it's soow like reap as you sew. And so I'm

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Speaker 3: not a financial advisor.

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Speaker 2: You know.

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Speaker 3: Everything here is for educational and information purposes only. And

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Speaker 3: what we do is we use data driven studies and

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Speaker 3: scorecards to help corporations identify where they're putting their shareholders

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Speaker 3: at risk. And so we work with institutional investors. We

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Speaker 3: work with large public companies, Wrestle three thousand companies. The

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Speaker 3: institutional investors are the mutual funds where most people have

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Speaker 3: their four oh one K pension funds. Most of the

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Speaker 3: pension funds are governments, and then we're also working with banks,

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Speaker 3: We work with university endowments and all of these places.

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Speaker 3: They have trillions of dollars invested in the market. And

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Speaker 3: for those of us who are investors, which I am,

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Speaker 3: we know that institutional investors move the market.

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Speaker 2: This is a big issue for Black Americans right now because,

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Speaker 2: as Angela is saying, this issue of gun violence so

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Speaker 2: disproportionately affects us, but we are investing. I think since

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Speaker 2: the pandemic, the majority of first time investors to the

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Speaker 2: stock market were blacks, and you have about fifty three

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Speaker 2: percent of Black Americans owning four to h one ks

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Speaker 2: and thirty five percent, as you said, of us stock

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Speaker 2: funds include investments in major retailers of guns and ammunition.

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Speaker 2: So someone's like, I don't want to invest in these

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Speaker 2: companies that disproportionately affect my community. What should they do?

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Speaker 1: Right, because some of us are doing it without even

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Speaker 1: realizing how money is going into gun maker's, ammunition makers

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Speaker 1: billions of dollars.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 3: And that's the thing because for one K plans, they

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Speaker 3: are mutual funds or index funds, so that's a basket

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Speaker 3: of stock. And some of those mutual funds they can

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Speaker 3: have five hundred holdings in them. And most times when

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Speaker 3: you go to your four oh one K advisor or

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Speaker 3: your HR person and talk to them, they're gonna have

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Speaker 3: you fill out a form. You're gonna look at very

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Speaker 3: specific things. They're gonna want to know what's your risk

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Speaker 3: you know, or you do have a high risk tolerance

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Speaker 3: a low risk tolerance. They're gonna want to know how

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Speaker 3: much money do you want to spend because you have

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Speaker 3: to pay for you know, all the everything that you

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Speaker 3: do and a mutual fund. But what they're not gonna

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Speaker 3: tell you is what all of those five hundred holdings are.

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Speaker 3: And so we have a platform it's called Gun Free

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Speaker 3: Funds with the nest dot org. And what we've done

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Speaker 3: is we have taken the top three thousand mutual fund

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Speaker 3: guns and we have taken a deep data dive into

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Speaker 3: them and we are pulling out where are you invested

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Speaker 3: in guns? In gun manufacturers, in retailers like Walmarts and

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Speaker 3: Big five, and you know, just big retail outlets that

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Speaker 3: sell guns, and so you're able to actually look to

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Speaker 3: see it's like looking behind the curt of what's in

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Speaker 3: your mutual fund, right, because really we had to create

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Speaker 3: this database in order to share it with the public

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Speaker 3: because the information it's just not readily available. And also

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Speaker 3: most of the people who are your HR managers they

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Speaker 3: probably don't know what's in the fund either.

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Speaker 1: So we can pick and choose and say I don't

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Speaker 1: want any of my money to be invested into these companies.

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Speaker 3: Yes, you can say that. Now the caveat is like

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Speaker 3: we know we can ask for anything. It doesn't necessarily

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Speaker 3: mean that the HR people the company that you're working

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Speaker 3: with is going to be responsive. And so one of

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Speaker 3: the things that we advocate is the same way that

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Speaker 3: these institutional investors are aggregating our shareholder money in the market,

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Speaker 3: that's what makes them so powerful. It's like on some

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Speaker 3: trading days, like ninety percent of these huge indexes is

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Speaker 3: all institutional money. And so just like they're aggregating and

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Speaker 3: that's what gives them power. We're training people to aggregate,

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Speaker 3: network with people in your company, let them know that

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Speaker 3: they also to be investing in guns, military weapons, private prisons.

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Speaker 3: They're all sorts of things in people's four o one

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Speaker 3: k's that they have just no idea.

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Speaker 2: And you guys are like the leader in this space.

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Speaker 2: I know in twenty twenty two you worked with almost

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Speaker 2: two hundred companies that were worth two point over two

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Speaker 2: point one trillion dollars. But just to back it up

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Speaker 2: a little bit, in reality, most of us don't even

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Speaker 2: know the name of the funds that our four oh

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Speaker 2: one k's are in. So how do we start from

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Speaker 2: the very beginning?

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Speaker 3: So the very beginning is to go onto the platform

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Speaker 3: that has your four oh one K and you might

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Speaker 3: need to ask your HR person for that information if

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Speaker 3: you're not clear about that. They should be sending you

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Speaker 3: a statement every month, either digitally or in the mail.

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Speaker 1: I get my statement every month digitally.

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Speaker 2: And you can just see the name on that right,

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Speaker 2: it's that some yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: You just open it up and everything that you own

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Speaker 3: should be right there. It'll be the name of the

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Speaker 3: mutual fund, for the index fund or bond I'm not sure,

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Speaker 3: you know, whatever you have in your four o one K.

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Speaker 3: Everything should be there, and then from there you can

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Speaker 3: start to ask questions. You can ask the HR person

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Speaker 3: can you tell me what's in this fund? In most

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Speaker 3: cases they're not going to be able to do that.

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Speaker 3: And even if you have the FUN person at your company,

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Speaker 3: and then you also have an portfolio manager at Vanguard

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Speaker 3: or black Rock or tia Craft whoever is your manager,

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Speaker 3: your investment manager, and that person should also be able

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Speaker 3: to help you. And you know, depending on the dynamics

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Speaker 3: and the politics of your company, you know, you may

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Speaker 3: want to talk to your HR person first and then

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Speaker 3: from there you can talk with the person at the

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Speaker 3: actual fund. And again I would say, talk to other

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Speaker 3: people in your company.

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Speaker 1: Right, So we do have the power to pick and

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Speaker 1: choose where our money goes. When it comes to these

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Speaker 1: mutual funds, it is your money.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, they have a fiduciary responsibility to listen to take

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Speaker 2: us out of what we don't want to be in. Yes.

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Speaker 3: And the thing about fiduciary duty, and you probably know

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Speaker 3: this is it's very vague and so some like even

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Speaker 3: for as you sow, we were connected with the twenty

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Speaker 3: eleven divestment movement for fossil fuels and we were one

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Speaker 3: of the leaders. We were training on university campuses. We

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Speaker 3: were having conversations, educating students as an organization. I wasn't

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Speaker 3: here then, but they didn't even know what was in

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Speaker 3: the foural one K So they had to go to

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Speaker 3: their fiduciary manager and they said, look, we want out

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Speaker 3: of fossil fuels and that person said no, oh wow,

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Speaker 3: and yeah said no, and we said you're fired. And

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Speaker 3: we could do that because you were an independent company,

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Speaker 3: and we fired him. We hired somebody who would support us.

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Speaker 3: So you have the option to have the conversations with

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Speaker 3: your peers and your workplace, have conversations with your HR person.

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Speaker 3: Most cases foural one K plan you have options. Normally

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Speaker 3: they'd give you maybe ten to twelve options, sometimes more,

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Speaker 3: sometimes less, and so there may be other If you

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Speaker 3: drop the name of your mutual fund into Gunfreefunds dot

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Speaker 3: org and and you see that you are invested in

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Speaker 3: guns and military weapons and other things that are completely

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Speaker 3: contrary to your values, you can ask your HR manager

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Speaker 3: to put you in a different fund. And sometimes if

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Speaker 3: they're savvy, the actual platform itself, Like I have a

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Speaker 3: four oh one K and TIA craft, I can just

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Speaker 3: go online and it will tell me every single mutual

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Speaker 3: fund that my corporation or my organization is a part

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Speaker 3: of and I can choose myself. The only thing about

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Speaker 3: that is that you may have questions, and so your

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Speaker 3: HR person should be able to answer questions for you.

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Speaker 3: The only thing that they give you is basically the

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Speaker 3: financial history of the fund. They tell you again how

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Speaker 3: many holdings are there. They give you. Sometimes they'll give

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Speaker 3: you the top ten companies, but again there are five.

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Speaker 3: There can be more than five hundred in there.

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Speaker 1: Right not It requires some work on our part.

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Speaker 2: The first time I heard about this was in twenty fifteen,

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Speaker 2: I interviewed Snoop Dogg and he was part of this

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Speaker 2: hashtag I Am Unloading, which was a campaign to unload

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Speaker 2: because he got really into, you know, seeing the power

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Speaker 2: that we could have as a community if we collectively,

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Speaker 2: you know, made moves like this and exercised our voting

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Speaker 2: rights as shareholders and not only when we think of

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Speaker 2: political elections. Talk to us about some of the impact

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Speaker 2: if the black community, you know, this this issue disproportionately

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Speaker 2: affects us, if we were savvy about it, investing and

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Speaker 2: if like the HBCUs really got behind this, what kind

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Speaker 2: of social impact do you think that could have?

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Speaker 3: Huge Because we have some universities now that are having

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Speaker 3: conversations with their endowments and they're saying, look, we want

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Speaker 3: at the very least, we want sustainable options. So that's

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Speaker 3: the other thing that people can ask for, ask for

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Speaker 3: a sustainable option. And when they have done that with

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Speaker 3: their endowments, a lot of times they get pushback. This

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Speaker 3: is sort of a long tail conversation, and sometimes you

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Speaker 3: have to have it more than once, and you have

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Speaker 3: to again bring a network of people more than once.

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Speaker 3: But now we have universities where their endowments have actually

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Speaker 3: given them a portion of the endowment to invest almost

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Speaker 3: as a beta for sustainable investing, and they're tracking it

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Speaker 3: and they're monitoring it. And a lot of the data

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Speaker 3: studies that are coming out now are saying that for environmental,

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Speaker 3: social and governance funds, they are on par with and

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Speaker 3: in some cases better than a traditional fund. Gun free

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Speaker 3: funds is relatively new for us. We started it just

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Speaker 3: a couple of years ago. So we don't have full

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Speaker 3: data on gun free funds, and we will because you know,

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Speaker 3: it just takes time to aggregate all of the data.

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Speaker 1: Well, listen, this is valuable information. And you know they

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Speaker 1: do say according to Post, sixty three percent of Americans

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Speaker 1: want gun laws to change in this country, but a

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Speaker 1: lot of people don't realize or may not realize that

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Speaker 1: they are supporting gun companies and ammunition makers through their

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Speaker 1: for one ks and like Stacy started this off saying,

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Speaker 1: there's been one hundred and forty six mass shooting so

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Speaker 1: far this year alone, all right, and so this is

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Speaker 1: really an important issue for us to even be aware of.

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Speaker 1: So we do. Thank you so much. Jill Courtney. Where

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Speaker 1: can people find you?

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Speaker 3: You can find me on LinkedIn, Jill Courtenay, It's coe O.

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Speaker 3: You are t E n A Y. Or you can

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Speaker 3: email at j Courtenay at asushow dot org.

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Speaker 2: Thank you so much, Joll. We really appreciate that and

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Speaker 2: really wanted to bring attention to how you know, collectively

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Speaker 2: we do have the investment dollars to really make move

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Speaker 2: the needle on this issue. So really appreciate your help.

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Speaker 3: With REST and it's becoming mainstream. It's a mainstream movement, yes,

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Speaker 3: shareholder advocacy. Thank you, Thank you, thank you for your interest.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, that's great, great, thank you, thanks Jill. I

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Speaker 1: appreciate it absolutely.

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Speaker 3: That went by so fast. I have like five more pages,

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Speaker 3: but we'll check back in too.

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Speaker 2: Definitely two