WEBVTT - 2026 Update: Christina 0:00:15.210 --> 0:00:15.690 Pushkin. 0:00:20.329 --> 0:00:20.529 Hi. 0:00:21.410 --> 0:00:25.689 You know, when you meditate, you're supposed to acknowledge the 0:00:25.770 --> 0:00:28.450 breath and put a name to it, like that was 0:00:28.530 --> 0:00:31.409 a small breath, that was a big breath. If I 0:00:31.450 --> 0:00:33.769 had to put a name to that, hello, I would 0:00:33.769 --> 0:00:35.850 say hesitantly, cheerful. 0:00:36.810 --> 0:00:38.690 Yeah, I'll take that. 0:00:38.450 --> 0:00:41.250 That's a part of my meditation, is naming your hellos. 0:00:41.650 --> 0:00:44.449 Kind of weird, but uh, all right, we're going to 0:00:44.530 --> 0:00:47.330 revisit another great episode today. 0:00:47.730 --> 0:00:48.050 Hit me. 0:00:48.489 --> 0:00:49.769 It's called Christina. 0:00:50.290 --> 0:00:53.650 Oh yeah, it's truly one of my favorite episodes. 0:00:53.970 --> 0:00:55.050 Yeah, it's a really good one. 0:00:55.209 --> 0:00:58.890 Uh yeah, I love it. I will say this and 0:00:59.010 --> 0:01:01.609 maybe you can confirm this fact check me on this. 0:01:02.130 --> 0:01:06.050 But this was an early season two episode, and up 0:01:06.130 --> 0:01:09.490 until this point, I had largely worked with people that 0:01:09.530 --> 0:01:13.050 I already knew, like friends and family, and this this 0:01:13.170 --> 0:01:15.410 was the first time that I was actually like traveling 0:01:15.650 --> 0:01:17.210 out in the world to meet someone. 0:01:17.770 --> 0:01:18.810 Yeah, that is true. 0:01:19.050 --> 0:01:21.570 Yeah, and I'll never forget. But when they met me 0:01:21.850 --> 0:01:25.890 at the airport, Christina and her husband LEVI, I just 0:01:26.010 --> 0:01:30.650 remember like seeing the look of hope and respect almost 0:01:30.970 --> 0:01:33.410 in their eyes. Yeah, and I just felt like, oh 0:01:33.410 --> 0:01:37.569 my god, these poor people, like I don't deserve that 0:01:37.690 --> 0:01:40.730 look at all. But I really better get it together. 0:01:40.970 --> 0:01:44.130 And then you've gotten it together for ten years now. 0:01:44.050 --> 0:01:45.490 You know what I do. I look at myself in 0:01:45.490 --> 0:01:47.690 the bathroom mirror and I slap myself in the face 0:01:48.250 --> 0:01:49.530 and I say, get it together. 0:01:49.610 --> 0:01:49.850 Buy. 0:01:50.370 --> 0:01:53.890 Well, it's working, so I guess keep doing that. Yeah, well, 0:01:54.450 --> 0:01:57.490 enjoyed the episode, and afterwards we're going to hear from 0:01:57.570 --> 0:01:59.290 Christina what she's up to now. 0:01:59.730 --> 0:02:02.810 Yes, we're gonna get a nice update about what Christina's 0:02:02.850 --> 0:02:05.970 life has been like and the impact that participating in 0:02:06.010 --> 0:02:08.609 the episode had on her. Oh but if we could 0:02:09.169 --> 0:02:12.049 reverse the process and eat our dessert before we move 0:02:12.130 --> 0:02:15.210 on to the main course, A word from our sponsors. 0:02:28.930 --> 0:02:31.450 Hello, Hey, do you have a copy of TV Guide? 0:02:32.610 --> 0:02:33.810 No? 0:02:33.810 --> 0:02:37.130 No, Why I can't find my copy? And I was 0:02:37.170 --> 0:02:45.450 wondering what was on TV? Don't you don't you remember? 0:02:45.570 --> 0:02:46.090 Don't you remember? 0:02:46.890 --> 0:02:48.090 Don't wait? 0:02:48.290 --> 0:02:50.169 Don't you remember calling people up on the phone? 0:02:50.690 --> 0:02:52.010 I do remember that, Yeah. 0:02:52.010 --> 0:02:54.570 Just to see what was on I remember calling on 0:02:54.690 --> 0:02:57.450 my Antille because I was too I was too lazy 0:02:57.490 --> 0:02:59.050 to get up off the couch to look for the 0:02:59.050 --> 0:03:02.530 TV Guide, so I just called her up. Woman could 0:03:02.530 --> 0:03:05.370 hardly walk and she had to search around for a 0:03:05.410 --> 0:03:16.329 TV guide from Gimblet Media. I'm Jonathan Goldstein and this 0:03:16.610 --> 0:03:33.210 is Heavyweight Today's episode. Christina, this is the best of 0:03:33.250 --> 0:03:37.290 all possible worlds. My father was fond of saying. The 0:03:37.370 --> 0:03:41.250 words were spoken contentedly, often while reclining in a barca 0:03:41.330 --> 0:03:44.930 lounger belt buckle undone after a large meal of baked 0:03:44.970 --> 0:03:48.210 beans and lamb chops. But what did my father know 0:03:48.330 --> 0:03:51.490 of other worlds? He'd held down the same job and 0:03:51.650 --> 0:03:55.450 was married to the same woman for decades plus. He 0:03:55.570 --> 0:03:59.730 hardly left the house. But what he did know was 0:03:59.770 --> 0:04:02.210 that this world had one thing over all of those 0:04:02.290 --> 0:04:07.810 other worlds. It existed from my father, that was enough 0:04:07.850 --> 0:04:14.970 to make it best. I, on the other hand, am 0:04:15.010 --> 0:04:16.410 not one over so easily. 0:04:17.170 --> 0:04:17.410 Sure. 0:04:17.490 --> 0:04:21.850 Existence is a nice quality, a fine quality, but going 0:04:21.930 --> 0:04:24.330 so far as to call a world that contains both 0:04:24.370 --> 0:04:28.529 soul patches and puddles the best possible anything seems a 0:04:28.529 --> 0:04:33.929 little extreme, and so imagining other worlds the same, only 0:04:34.010 --> 0:04:38.050 better is just too irresistible. In spite of the pain 0:04:38.169 --> 0:04:44.770 such thinking inevitably invites. Why don't we start from the beginning? Okay, 0:04:45.289 --> 0:04:48.329 this is Christina, and like me, she knows this world 0:04:48.330 --> 0:04:51.969 can use a few tweaks. Overall, she says her life 0:04:52.010 --> 0:04:54.489 hasn't been a bad one, it's just not the one 0:04:54.529 --> 0:04:57.849 she was meant to live. She's worked as a waitress, 0:04:57.969 --> 0:05:01.050 a receptionist, as a home care worker, the kinds of 0:05:01.169 --> 0:05:05.769 jobs you do, but not necessarily the kind you dream about. Lately, 0:05:06.010 --> 0:05:08.089 she's been helping run her husband's company. 0:05:08.650 --> 0:05:10.849 It's a a disc golfing backpack company. 0:05:11.690 --> 0:05:14.809 Say sorry, say that again. It's a what disc golf 0:05:15.089 --> 0:05:17.610 backpack is? What is disc golf? 0:05:18.049 --> 0:05:21.210 It's like ball golf, but instead of balls and clubs, 0:05:21.250 --> 0:05:22.049 you have frisbees. 0:05:22.289 --> 0:05:25.089 Oh, when you say ball golf, you're talking about golf golf. 0:05:24.929 --> 0:05:25.650 Like a regular golf. 0:05:25.770 --> 0:05:29.410 Yeah, okay, I've never heard it referred to distinguished as 0:05:29.529 --> 0:05:30.249 ball golf, but I. 0:05:30.250 --> 0:05:32.409 Will only disc golfers call it ball golf. 0:05:33.049 --> 0:05:34.969 So, but how do you how do you get a 0:05:34.969 --> 0:05:36.010 frisbee in a golf hole? 0:05:36.729 --> 0:05:39.330 No, it's actually not a hole, it's a basket. 0:05:39.729 --> 0:05:44.330 Oh, my goodness. Before she started pining after better worlds, 0:05:44.690 --> 0:05:47.969 Christina was focused on just one, the world of small 0:05:48.010 --> 0:05:49.129 town Western Canada. 0:05:49.650 --> 0:05:52.210 I lived with my mom. She was a single mom. 0:05:52.210 --> 0:05:55.409 My dad left when I was around one, and my 0:05:55.529 --> 0:05:57.770 mom was diagnosed with schizophrenia. 0:05:58.489 --> 0:06:00.929 Christina was just a kid, so a lot of it's 0:06:00.929 --> 0:06:04.409 now fuzzy, but she remembers bits of things, her mom 0:06:04.489 --> 0:06:07.250 going off her meds and beginning to hear voices, her 0:06:07.289 --> 0:06:09.249 mom waking her in the middle of the night and 0:06:09.330 --> 0:06:12.569 saying they had to leave right away. She remembers running 0:06:12.570 --> 0:06:14.049 with her mom down dark streets. 0:06:15.130 --> 0:06:19.210 She started becoming violent and she would just, you know, 0:06:19.330 --> 0:06:22.450 hit me with the phone handle, or this one time 0:06:22.529 --> 0:06:26.369 she came after me with a high heeled shoe. There's 0:06:26.409 --> 0:06:29.770 no food in the house. She wouldn't do laundry, like 0:06:29.969 --> 0:06:32.129 the dirty clothes would pile up in the living room, 0:06:32.210 --> 0:06:36.809 Like I remember this massive mound of dirty clothes, and 0:06:36.890 --> 0:06:39.050 I remember this kid made fun of me for having 0:06:39.130 --> 0:06:42.770 dirty pants, and so I started stealing clothes just so 0:06:42.810 --> 0:06:44.770 I could have clean clothes to go to school. 0:06:45.929 --> 0:06:48.289 When you were a kid trying to survive on your own, 0:06:48.570 --> 0:06:52.249 the unthinkable can start to seem normal. To escape her house, 0:06:52.570 --> 0:06:55.370 Christina took a job caring for two boys not much 0:06:55.409 --> 0:06:59.370 younger than herself. She became a twelve year old live 0:06:59.409 --> 0:07:00.010 in nanny. 0:07:00.529 --> 0:07:02.489 So I ended up moving in with this family and 0:07:02.529 --> 0:07:06.250 looking after the boys. They paid me a little bit 0:07:07.289 --> 0:07:10.610 and I quit school to be a nanny. 0:07:11.450 --> 0:07:14.850 When she stopped showing up at school, social services removed 0:07:14.929 --> 0:07:18.050 Christina from the nannying house, but instead of bringing her 0:07:18.050 --> 0:07:20.850 back to her mom, they took her to a foster home. 0:07:25.489 --> 0:07:27.449 She was sent to live with an older couple and 0:07:27.489 --> 0:07:30.530 their grandson. They lived on the fancier side of town 0:07:30.770 --> 0:07:35.009 in a house decorated with candleholders and decorative pistols. The 0:07:35.050 --> 0:07:38.930 foster mother was a woman named Isabelle. Her grandson, David, 0:07:39.330 --> 0:07:42.610 was the golden boy who could do no wrong. From 0:07:42.690 --> 0:07:45.570 day one, Christina struggled for Isabelle's approval. 0:07:46.410 --> 0:07:49.250 My foster mother and I kind of butted heads a 0:07:49.290 --> 0:07:51.449 little bit or a lot. 0:07:53.170 --> 0:07:56.489 Although Isabelle was only an inch taller, Christina was scared 0:07:56.489 --> 0:08:01.010 of her. Her foster mother communicated through rules and punishments. 0:08:01.290 --> 0:08:03.809 She was very strict. 0:08:04.210 --> 0:08:06.810 Fris five minutes late for curfew, I would be grounded 0:08:06.850 --> 0:08:07.329 for a month. 0:08:07.730 --> 0:08:09.330 It felt like I was always grounded. 0:08:10.770 --> 0:08:15.689 And afraid all the time, and kind of walking on eggshells, 0:08:15.730 --> 0:08:21.730 and yeah, just feeling always really intimidated and scared. 0:08:21.770 --> 0:08:25.570 I was always scared, and when she got scared, Christina 0:08:25.570 --> 0:08:29.090 would go silent. As a result, she never once stood 0:08:29.130 --> 0:08:40.490 up to Isabelle. It was while living in Isabelle's world 0:08:40.690 --> 0:08:44.290 that another better world presented itself to Christina. A world 0:08:44.330 --> 0:08:47.370 with rules that were easy to understand, a world where 0:08:47.410 --> 0:08:51.450 someone was always keeping score and keeping things fair. This 0:08:51.730 --> 0:08:54.090 was the eighty four x fifty foot world of a 0:08:54.130 --> 0:08:55.050 basketball court. 0:08:55.570 --> 0:08:59.210 I can't explain how much I was obsessed with basketball. 0:08:59.370 --> 0:09:02.290 I would practice at like six in the morning at 0:09:02.290 --> 0:09:02.810 the school. 0:09:03.130 --> 0:09:04.929 I would practice on weekends. 0:09:05.410 --> 0:09:08.170 I'd watch the NBA games with Clyde the Glide and 0:09:08.290 --> 0:09:11.050 Charles Barkley. Then my name was in the paper a 0:09:11.050 --> 0:09:13.410 few times. I think I have some paper clippings of 0:09:14.090 --> 0:09:15.050 like high scoring. 0:09:15.610 --> 0:09:17.330 I loved, loved, loved basketball. 0:09:18.770 --> 0:09:22.050 On the basketball court, Christina was never scared. It was 0:09:22.090 --> 0:09:24.090 a place where, for the first time in her life, 0:09:24.250 --> 0:09:28.210 she felt in control and confident. Her foster brother, David, 0:09:28.450 --> 0:09:32.050 a popular jock, spent hours helping her get better. She 0:09:32.170 --> 0:09:35.570 joined a team and quickly became a high scorer. Eventually 0:09:35.650 --> 0:09:36.850 she was made team captain. 0:09:37.050 --> 0:09:39.210 They would always put me inside, like I would always 0:09:39.250 --> 0:09:40.170 have to guard the post. 0:09:40.610 --> 0:09:43.810 When Christina talks about basketball, she lights up, and I 0:09:43.850 --> 0:09:47.090 want to encourage her to keep talking by asking questions. 0:09:47.290 --> 0:09:49.970 But my only real knowledge of basketball comes from watching 0:09:50.050 --> 0:09:53.090 the Harlem Globetrotters. I was in my thirties before I 0:09:53.170 --> 0:09:55.650 learned it was illegal to bring stilts onto the court, 0:09:56.210 --> 0:09:57.570 so my questions are limited. 0:09:57.770 --> 0:10:02.410 We tall no only five to six. But I guess 0:10:02.690 --> 0:10:08.210 I kind of had this unrealistic view of myself where 0:10:08.250 --> 0:10:12.850 I thought I was taller than I was because off court, 0:10:12.890 --> 0:10:16.650 I was like kind of meek, and I'd just follow 0:10:16.690 --> 0:10:19.330 the crowd and I wouldn't create any waves. I didn't 0:10:19.330 --> 0:10:22.170 really have an opinion, but on the court I was 0:10:22.490 --> 0:10:24.130 a force to be reckoned with. It was like the 0:10:24.170 --> 0:10:25.850 only time where I felt powerful. 0:10:31.850 --> 0:10:34.050 It was around this time that a plan began to 0:10:34.090 --> 0:10:37.970 take shape. If she kept practicing and kept winning, she'd 0:10:38.010 --> 0:10:41.890 get a basketball scholarship. Christina knew that was her only 0:10:41.970 --> 0:10:43.570 hope of getting into college. 0:10:44.090 --> 0:10:48.330 I wanted to get out of that circle of welfare 0:10:48.490 --> 0:10:53.970 and illness and living from paycheck to paycheck and just 0:10:53.970 --> 0:10:55.170 feeling just being poor. 0:10:56.090 --> 0:10:59.930 It sucked, which brings us to the moment that thirty 0:11:00.010 --> 0:11:03.850 years later, Christina still can't stop thinking about. She'd just 0:11:03.930 --> 0:11:07.010 come home from school when Isabelle called her into the kitchen, 0:11:07.290 --> 0:11:09.930 sat her down at the table, and presented her with 0:11:09.970 --> 0:11:10.689 an ultimatum. 0:11:11.410 --> 0:11:13.250 She said, you have to get your grades up. 0:11:13.890 --> 0:11:17.850 You have to work harder at school, and so in 0:11:17.930 --> 0:11:20.210 order for me to be able to play basketball the 0:11:20.250 --> 0:11:23.170 following year, which would have been eleventh grade, I had 0:11:23.210 --> 0:11:25.490 to have an average of a bee in every class. 0:11:26.170 --> 0:11:28.770 But I was really bad at math and chemistry, and 0:11:33.170 --> 0:11:37.490 I didn't make it. I wasn't allowed to play basketball. 0:11:39.610 --> 0:11:42.250 What she remembers most about that time was watching a 0:11:42.250 --> 0:11:46.530 lot of TV and overeating and the chores. After forcing 0:11:46.610 --> 0:11:50.090 Christina to quit the basketball team, Isabelle handed her chores 0:11:50.130 --> 0:11:53.250 that felt like ironic punishments from the Judy Bloom version 0:11:53.250 --> 0:11:56.970 of Dante's Inferno. She had to bake cookies for the family, 0:11:57.370 --> 0:11:59.890 but because of her weight gain, she wasn't allowed to 0:11:59.890 --> 0:12:03.850 eat any. And when she dusted the house, Isabelle instructed 0:12:03.890 --> 0:12:07.610 her to pick up David's basketball trophies, dust each one, 0:12:08.010 --> 0:12:12.250 and dust the shelf underneath. All the while, Christina felt 0:12:12.250 --> 0:12:16.810 her loss acutely of basketball and the better world had promised. 0:12:17.490 --> 0:12:22.530 She took something from me that I've not been able 0:12:22.570 --> 0:12:23.250 to get back. 0:12:25.090 --> 0:12:25.770 What is that thing? 0:12:26.210 --> 0:12:26.370 Yeah? 0:12:26.410 --> 0:12:26.970 And I don't even know. 0:12:27.010 --> 0:12:27.690 I don't. 0:12:27.890 --> 0:12:31.490 When I say that out loud, it sounds ridiculous, but 0:12:31.930 --> 0:12:37.809 it feels like that passion for something it dashed this 0:12:37.930 --> 0:12:39.890 huge dream that I had for my life. 0:12:47.690 --> 0:12:51.569 Christina still wonders why why did Isabelle take away basketball? 0:12:51.890 --> 0:12:54.050 The only thing that really mattered to her, that would 0:12:54.050 --> 0:12:56.930 have given her a better life, But all these years 0:12:57.090 --> 0:12:58.490 she's been too afraid to ask. 0:12:59.490 --> 0:13:03.570 She's going to be ninety five in July. The thought 0:13:03.730 --> 0:13:07.210 of talking to her about it petrifies me a little bit, 0:13:07.290 --> 0:13:10.090 like there's still a part of me that is scared 0:13:10.090 --> 0:13:11.689 of her, which is ridiculous. 0:13:12.610 --> 0:13:16.570 And what do you want? 0:13:17.330 --> 0:13:20.530 I think, Yeah, I think I want to know, like 0:13:20.690 --> 0:13:23.170 why she made my life so difficult, if it was 0:13:23.810 --> 0:13:28.450 just to break me down, if she had some kind 0:13:28.490 --> 0:13:30.090 of thing against me. 0:13:30.970 --> 0:13:33.809 And what do you want to hear her say? 0:13:36.810 --> 0:13:38.650 I guess I want to just hear her say that 0:13:39.450 --> 0:13:42.010 she just genuinely wanted me to have better grades. 0:13:44.010 --> 0:13:46.450 But I know that that's just such bs. 0:13:48.770 --> 0:13:51.010 For whatever reason, I've let go of a lot of 0:13:51.050 --> 0:13:54.730 things that have happened, but for whatever reason, this one thing, 0:13:55.210 --> 0:13:58.210 the basketball thing, not letting me play basketball. I'm having 0:13:58.330 --> 0:14:01.050 such a hard time letting go of that and forgiving her. 0:14:02.210 --> 0:14:03.010 I want to let it go. 0:14:03.810 --> 0:14:05.130 So you want to go talk to her? 0:14:06.130 --> 0:14:06.689 Yeah? 0:14:07.170 --> 0:14:08.450 You and you want me to come? 0:14:09.250 --> 0:14:09.450 Yes? 0:14:10.570 --> 0:14:13.090 I get really meely mouthed when I'm in the same 0:14:13.170 --> 0:14:16.490 room as like strong willed, scary older women. I'll tell 0:14:16.490 --> 0:14:18.010 you that right now, not going to be much help. 0:14:20.930 --> 0:14:22.810 So we're doing it. 0:14:22.810 --> 0:14:26.410 It sounds like we're doing it all right. We're gonna 0:14:26.410 --> 0:14:33.610 go talk to that scary lady after the break. How 0:14:33.690 --> 0:14:36.130 much mincing can a mealie mouth mince when a meei 0:14:36.210 --> 0:14:40.810 mouth meets a menacing miss who writes this stuff? I 0:14:40.810 --> 0:14:52.010 guess I do. Once I gave Christina my word that 0:14:52.050 --> 0:14:55.970 i'd help, I approached CEO and Gimblet founder Alex Bloomberg 0:14:56.090 --> 0:14:57.810 to ask if he could fly me to the British 0:14:57.810 --> 0:15:01.050 Columbian Interior to confront a ninety five year old woman 0:15:01.090 --> 0:15:03.570 about something she may or may not have said some 0:15:03.650 --> 0:15:06.650 thirty years ago, to which Alex asked, why are you 0:15:06.690 --> 0:15:09.290 always standing just outside the door whenever I get out 0:15:09.290 --> 0:15:12.010 of the bathroom, And I said it was a coincidence, 0:15:12.410 --> 0:15:15.850 although I might have pronounced it quinky dink to be playful, 0:15:16.170 --> 0:15:18.170 and he asked how long. This trip would take me 0:15:18.210 --> 0:15:20.570 out of the office, and I said a week, and 0:15:20.650 --> 0:15:23.290 he said to take longer if I needed it. So 0:15:23.370 --> 0:15:29.810 I was off to Canada. Tail denos a. 0:15:31.970 --> 0:15:46.490 Deploire you I speak you too. 0:15:46.850 --> 0:15:49.570 I meet Christina and her husband Levi at the Colonna 0:15:49.610 --> 0:15:53.050 Airport in British Columbia. They'd just flown in from Portland, 0:15:53.410 --> 0:15:56.170 and the look of trust on their faces is daunting. 0:15:57.010 --> 0:16:00.050 When meeting new people, especially people I'm about to help, 0:16:00.370 --> 0:16:04.650 I'm more comfortable with looks of skepticism or anticipatory disappointment. 0:16:05.370 --> 0:16:07.130 Trust was disconcerting. 0:16:08.290 --> 0:16:10.010 Yes, I have a reservation. 0:16:10.210 --> 0:16:12.250 It was an hour and a half drive to Isabelle's, 0:16:12.450 --> 0:16:14.690 so we made our way to the airport rental desk 0:16:14.970 --> 0:16:19.090 to get a car Goldstein g old. 0:16:19.290 --> 0:16:20.650 I just asked, who that is there? 0:16:20.770 --> 0:16:22.650 Oh, it's just a we're doing a radio story. 0:16:22.770 --> 0:16:24.610 So I'm just do you mind turning that. 0:16:24.570 --> 0:16:25.450 Off and putting away? 0:16:27.690 --> 0:16:30.210 If I couldn't even stand up to the car rental clerk, 0:16:30.690 --> 0:16:33.210 what hope did I have of helping Christina stand up 0:16:33.250 --> 0:16:36.970 to Isabelle. 0:16:39.050 --> 0:16:42.010 It's hot in here, I say. 0:16:43.490 --> 0:16:46.690 It's been well over two years since Christina's seen Isabelle. 0:16:47.090 --> 0:16:50.290 She's feeling anxious, so I try to keep the mood positive. 0:16:53.650 --> 0:16:54.130 I bet the. 0:16:54.130 --> 0:16:58.850 Thrift stores are really good around here. I point out 0:16:58.930 --> 0:17:02.130 foreign license plates, and because we're in a foreign country, 0:17:02.490 --> 0:17:07.969 there are many pretty Have you guys been watching this 0:17:08.050 --> 0:17:13.689 show called little Big Lies or big little lies or 0:17:14.570 --> 0:17:15.609 little big Lies? 0:17:20.290 --> 0:17:20.690 Well set? 0:17:21.409 --> 0:17:21.929 I think so. 0:17:25.970 --> 0:17:28.929 Isabelle lives on the ground floor of a squat apartment 0:17:28.970 --> 0:17:38.010 block mostly inhabited by seniors. We wait. When no one answers, 0:17:38.250 --> 0:17:48.129 we ring the bell. The door opens. I heard you 0:17:48.169 --> 0:17:53.649 the first time, Isabelle says. Christina smiles in spite of herself. 0:17:53.810 --> 0:17:56.330 She can't help but get a kick out of Isabelle. 0:17:57.209 --> 0:18:00.850 Isabelle peers up at us from behind her walker. Christina's husband, 0:18:00.929 --> 0:18:05.369 Levi makes introductions. Isabel Hi, how are you doing? 0:18:05.889 --> 0:18:07.129 Oh that? 0:18:07.369 --> 0:18:12.090 Oh? Is me reacting to Isabelle's handshake, a surprisingly powerful 0:18:12.129 --> 0:18:15.649 thing that yanks me through the doorframe. Although a diminutive 0:18:15.689 --> 0:18:19.609 woman with white, puffy hair and wire rim glasses, Isabelle's 0:18:19.649 --> 0:18:24.250 just established herself as the alpha. Nice to meet you. 0:18:25.770 --> 0:18:32.169 Okay, you seem to be doing great. I'm doing not 0:18:32.330 --> 0:18:33.810 bad for you, know my age. 0:18:33.810 --> 0:18:38.689 I guess Isabelle's apartment is tidy and dim, decorated with 0:18:38.810 --> 0:18:42.250 candles that haven't been lit in years. We slowly follow 0:18:42.250 --> 0:18:44.850 her down a narrow hallway to her living room, where 0:18:44.850 --> 0:18:49.369 she seats herself in a faded blue mechanized armchair. On 0:18:49.409 --> 0:18:53.210 the drive over, Christina mentioned that Isabelle is legally blind, 0:18:53.730 --> 0:18:57.449 but I misremember this as Isabelle being legally deaf, so 0:18:57.490 --> 0:19:00.930 I compliment her on how well she's following along. Well, 0:19:00.970 --> 0:19:03.689 I'm not talking very loud, and you you've been able 0:19:03.730 --> 0:19:04.609 to hear everything. 0:19:05.050 --> 0:19:09.090 So I did see there's nothing wrong with my ears right. 0:19:10.209 --> 0:19:16.530 And you did not. To recover from this faux pas, 0:19:16.810 --> 0:19:19.770 I offer Isabelle a chance to feel my face run 0:19:19.770 --> 0:19:22.409 her hands through my beard, which is something I think 0:19:22.449 --> 0:19:24.969 I saw done in The Miracle Worker. If ever, you 0:19:25.010 --> 0:19:26.369 want to feel my stubble or. 0:19:26.570 --> 0:19:29.449 I don't go running around feeling beards. 0:19:29.490 --> 0:19:31.569 I decide that now is as good a time as 0:19:31.609 --> 0:19:34.649 any to offer around the airport treats I bought during 0:19:34.649 --> 0:19:38.690 my layover. I brought some refreshments, since I don't want 0:19:38.689 --> 0:19:41.250 to put Isabelle out by asking for a party tray. 0:19:41.609 --> 0:19:44.169 I scoot my travel socks and underwear to the side 0:19:44.169 --> 0:19:47.409 of my backpack and proffer them straight from the bag, 0:19:47.770 --> 0:19:51.409 some chocolate covered nuts and such. 0:19:51.850 --> 0:19:53.209 Not right now, thank you? 0:19:53.209 --> 0:20:02.170 No, okay, I'll leave him in the bag. If I've 0:20:02.250 --> 0:20:04.890 learned anything from my work in the business of forcing 0:20:04.889 --> 0:20:08.289 people to ask terrifying questions, it was that it's always 0:20:08.409 --> 0:20:11.609 best to just get it over with. Ask the question, 0:20:11.970 --> 0:20:15.169 why did you ruin my life? Get the answer, and 0:20:15.250 --> 0:20:18.289 head back to the hotel bar to eat the juiciest, 0:20:18.409 --> 0:20:21.970 fattiest tea bone steak that Gimlet Media's fourteen dollars per 0:20:22.010 --> 0:20:26.289 diem allows. But staging is everything I need to be 0:20:26.369 --> 0:20:30.609 off hand, subtle. Do you, Christina, do you have anything 0:20:30.649 --> 0:20:48.810 that you you want to ask about? Or Christina looks 0:20:48.810 --> 0:20:52.090 down at her hands and tightens her lips. Of course 0:20:52.129 --> 0:20:56.330 I understand her hesitation. Isabelle is even more intimidating in 0:20:56.369 --> 0:20:59.929 person than Christina made her out, and nothing about being 0:20:59.970 --> 0:21:03.409 here can possibly feel much like coming home. The walls 0:21:03.409 --> 0:21:07.290 and shelves are loaded with photos of Isabelle's children, grandchildren, 0:21:07.449 --> 0:21:11.169 and great grandchildren, but there isn't a single photo anywhere 0:21:11.409 --> 0:21:16.250 of her only foster child, Christina. To break the silence, 0:21:16.530 --> 0:21:19.609 I asked Isabelle why she originally took Christina into her 0:21:19.609 --> 0:21:20.929 home in the first place. 0:21:21.449 --> 0:21:23.689 One of my children left a child for me to raise, 0:21:23.850 --> 0:21:28.090 my grandson. This was David. Yeah, so I thought life 0:21:28.169 --> 0:21:31.569 was just my husband and I. We were both older. 0:21:31.689 --> 0:21:35.129 It would be kind of very dull for him. So 0:21:35.209 --> 0:21:39.010 I thought that having someone else around the house would 0:21:39.050 --> 0:21:44.169 make it a little more homey for him. But I 0:21:44.209 --> 0:21:47.090 hadn't chosen Christina. Christina was brought to me, and we're 0:21:47.209 --> 0:21:53.330 just She was just there, this wild looking thing, seeing 0:21:53.449 --> 0:21:55.409 a little bit of training to live in a home. 0:21:55.490 --> 0:21:59.729 So obviously she hadn't been brought up with anything. I 0:21:59.889 --> 0:22:03.129 just thought any child living under my roof had to 0:22:03.330 --> 0:22:04.130 be taught. 0:22:03.850 --> 0:22:06.969 Something, meaning like what kind of things like you mean, 0:22:07.090 --> 0:22:09.050 normal like rules and. 0:22:09.169 --> 0:22:11.809 Well rules, yeah, the rule. I don't think that our 0:22:11.889 --> 0:22:13.570 rules were terribly strict. 0:22:13.209 --> 0:22:17.449 Really, I mean I felt like they were strict. 0:22:18.250 --> 0:22:23.090 Well maybe you thought so, that most kids do, but 0:22:23.129 --> 0:22:24.810 they were the same rules my kids had. 0:22:26.810 --> 0:22:29.649 Christina hesitates, you can see it's hard for her to 0:22:29.689 --> 0:22:31.330 talk back to Isabelle even now. 0:22:32.050 --> 0:22:35.690 But then she says, but David didn't have rules, No, 0:22:35.770 --> 0:22:40.009 he didn't need any. He is the most perfect person 0:22:40.609 --> 0:22:41.570 I've ever raised. 0:22:44.449 --> 0:22:48.049 Christina, another person she happened to have raised is seated 0:22:48.129 --> 0:22:51.490 a couple feet away from her. Christina stares ahead blankly, 0:22:51.850 --> 0:22:55.450 not saying anything. So I press Isabelle, well, you must 0:22:55.490 --> 0:22:57.609 have done something wrong. I mean, it's only. 0:23:00.090 --> 0:23:04.369 Very little, or you'd be surprised how perfect he was. 0:23:04.369 --> 0:23:07.889 Was that hard though, being like side by side with 0:23:07.929 --> 0:23:08.650 someone who. 0:23:08.530 --> 0:23:09.689 Is just no. 0:23:09.770 --> 0:23:11.050 I think it was good for her. 0:23:12.330 --> 0:23:14.330 Christina, that is that how you feel? 0:23:14.449 --> 0:23:17.050 It was hard? Yeah, it was really hard. 0:23:18.810 --> 0:23:21.529 Something else that's been hard is finding the courage to 0:23:21.609 --> 0:23:25.169 ask the question that brought her here, but Christina gives 0:23:25.169 --> 0:23:33.170 it a shot after the break. Something else that's been 0:23:33.209 --> 0:23:35.929 hard is finding the courage to ask the question that 0:23:35.970 --> 0:23:44.810 brought her here. Christina gives it a shot, but after 0:23:44.850 --> 0:23:47.809 some throat clearing again, she goes silent. 0:23:50.090 --> 0:23:52.729 Go ahead, ask. 0:23:53.490 --> 0:23:59.569 I think the one thing that I have kind of 0:23:59.609 --> 0:24:04.329 always wondered is do you remember I think it was 0:24:04.530 --> 0:24:11.650 in tenth grade and I had been playing basketball and 0:24:11.689 --> 0:24:13.689 you told me that I had to get my grades 0:24:13.770 --> 0:24:15.970 up where I couldn't play basketball anymore. 0:24:16.090 --> 0:24:16.729