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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. This is the Bloomberg

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Speaker 1: Surveillance Podcast. Catch us live weekdays at seven am Eastern

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Speaker 1: on Apple CarPlay or Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business app.

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Speaker 1: Listen on demand wherever you get your podcasts, or watch

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Speaker 1: us live on YouTube.

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Speaker 2: We know the Secretary is listening to Secretary best in

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Speaker 2: after his interview on the movie.

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Speaker 3: He's probably you know, tuning.

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Speaker 2: In here, and he's tuning in for Adam Posen with

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Speaker 2: the Peterson Institute for International Economics, truly one of our

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Speaker 2: great economists, noticing that Philadelphia won last night.

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Speaker 3: Okay, basis loaded, I's all that.

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Speaker 2: Temphending, catchers interference. It's like, you know, it's like terrible

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Speaker 2: Adam posing with us this morning. Adam, my book of

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Speaker 2: the Summer's ken Roll, goffs our Dolly, your problem. I

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Speaker 2: read the footnotes on that much of a Nerd, and

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Speaker 2: back in the foot it's they mentioned Alwin Young of LS.

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Speaker 2: Adam Posen is mentioned as well, and sandwichs in there, Adam,

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Speaker 2: as you know, is Paul Krugman's nineteen ninety four jewel

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Speaker 2: on the myth of the Asian Miracle. If you're speaking

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Speaker 2: with Secretary of Treasury Bessett. Now is he meets with

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Speaker 2: the Chinese Monday in Stockholm, what is the myth of

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Speaker 2: China that he needs to know about?

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Speaker 4: Thanks for having me, Tom, and of course I follow you.

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Speaker 4: So I saw you made Ken's book the Book of

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Speaker 4: the Summer good call. I think the myth that Alan

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Speaker 4: Young and Paul Krugman and others put out which was right,

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Speaker 4: which is, you don't get self perpetuating growth. You don't

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Speaker 4: get trend productivity, growth improvements with just through throwing more

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Speaker 4: capital that you have to actually innovate. And so this

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Speaker 4: has been an issue for China, not because they don't innovate,

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Speaker 4: the private sector does clearly, but that they keep deciding

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Speaker 4: to throw huge amounts of money into the state owned

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Speaker 4: enterprise sector, into industries of yesterday. It doesn't solve Secretary

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Speaker 4: Pscent in the US's issue with China because again there

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Speaker 4: is a fundamental competitiveness of a lot of the Chinese economy,

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Speaker 4: and then disputes about their treatment of intellectual property rights,

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Speaker 4: their treatment of dumping of subsidies. But the fundamental point

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Speaker 4: which my colleague Nic Clardy also in China, yeah, is

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Speaker 4: that there is still a huge divide between the public

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Speaker 4: sector and the private sector use of capital in China.

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Speaker 2: Adam posen I was going to mention Nick Lardy, with

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Speaker 2: real authoritative decades of perspective on China, do we want

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Speaker 2: those jobs back?

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Speaker 3: Does a Peterson Institute see.

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Speaker 2: Any evidence that we want the quote unquote manufacturing jobs

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Speaker 2: of China back in America?

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Speaker 4: Depends which ones you know talk about Krugman and Laura Tyson.

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Speaker 4: We're debating thirty five years ago, industrial policy right and

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Speaker 4: trade strategic so called strategic trade policy, and long through

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Speaker 4: the years. What's come out is you want to be

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Speaker 4: realistic about what jobs you can get, and you want

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Speaker 4: jobs that are relatively well paid for the level of

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Speaker 4: development your economies at and as people rightly made fun

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Speaker 4: of Secretary Lutnik talking about, we don't want us people

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Speaker 4: screwing little screws into the backs of iPhones. That's not

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Speaker 4: what the US should be doing. We don't really want

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Speaker 4: us people doing things that can easily be substituted for

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Speaker 4: by robots and mechanization. There are some manufacturing jobs that

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Speaker 4: would be nice to have, But as another colleague of mine,

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Speaker 4: Robert Lawrence, who you know well, has argued, there's a

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Speaker 4: real limit, given technology, given international markets, given declining demand

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Speaker 4: for in money terms, for manufactured goods, how many of

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Speaker 4: these manufacturing jobs you can create? And so that ultimately

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Speaker 4: is the crazy thing about all this. If you go

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Speaker 4: through turning the whole US economy upside down, you're going

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Speaker 4: to change the labor force by one one and a

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Speaker 4: half percent at most, which is a lot in human terms,

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Speaker 4: but is a very small amount in the economy. That

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Speaker 4: doesn't say we shouldn't worry about concentration risk and national

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Speaker 4: security risk. On the manufacturing side, that's a different argument.

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Speaker 4: But the jobs idea, there's just fundamental limits. You're not

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Speaker 4: going to create enough good jobs as they're called through

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Speaker 4: this kind of policy.

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Speaker 5: Adam, what do you make of the US dollar here?

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Speaker 5: It's still down nine ten percent versus it's high from

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Speaker 5: earlier this year when most risk assets, whether you look

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Speaker 5: at the S and P five hundred, they bounce back

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Speaker 5: in are setting new heis what's going on with the

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Speaker 5: US dollar?

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Speaker 4: In your opinion, you're right to point out the divergence,

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Speaker 4: but I think there's a reasonably clear explanation. So as

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Speaker 4: I know you wore ware Paul, the TIC data, the

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Speaker 4: Treasury International or whatever it's called. Data shows that there's

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Speaker 4: been big inflows into the US. What seems to be

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Speaker 4: happening is a lot of long money managers, including sovereign

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Speaker 4: wealth funds, including certain bank and government reserve managers, but

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Speaker 4: also pench of funds. Insurance companies are smartly repricing risk

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Speaker 4: on the US, both because the US is providing less

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Speaker 4: credible insurance than it used to in various ways, and

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Speaker 4: because the fiscal path is now noticeably worse, and so

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Speaker 4: they're hedging. They're paying for hedges on the dollar in

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Speaker 4: a way that they rarely have for the last twenty

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Speaker 4: thirty years, and that's more easily expressed through the currency

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Speaker 4: markets than through through equities or bonds. And so to me,

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Speaker 4: we're seeing a genuine move against the dollar on fundamentals,

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Speaker 4: and we're seeing that in as many people have documented,

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Speaker 4: including my Colleymoriozeld, including Ellen Ray at London Business School,

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Speaker 4: that we got this and you've spoken about we've got

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Speaker 4: this now kind of em dynamic. When bad news hits

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Speaker 4: in the US, intra day, intraweek, interest rates go up

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Speaker 4: and dollar goes down, as opposed to usually for the

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Speaker 4: last twenty thirty years, when bad news hits, interest rates

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Speaker 4: go up and dollar goes up because there's flight to

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Speaker 4: the US. So there isn't a contradiction. There is an

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Speaker 4: expression of non zero risk on US assets that has

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Speaker 4: to be hedged, and that's showing up in dollars in currency.

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Speaker 5: Excuse me, Is there a risk that the dollar loses

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Speaker 5: this position as reserve currency in the global Me?

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Speaker 4: No, but I think dollar loses its centrality. So let

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Speaker 4: me parse the words carefully. Reserve currency status doesn't have

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Speaker 4: to be only one. The historian Berry eichen Green has

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Speaker 4: documented this. Mark Vantro and others have documented this. It

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Speaker 4: basically the attribute of reserve currency is that you can

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Speaker 4: issue your public debt in your own currency, and secondarily

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Speaker 4: that at least some of the time when there's a panic,

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Speaker 4: people come to it. That latter part, as I just said,

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Speaker 4: is we can take some But US is going to

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Speaker 4: continue to be able to issue debt in its own

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Speaker 4: currency at higher interest rates. But it will be able

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Speaker 4: to But I and Maury and Marcus Brennermeier and or

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Speaker 4: given a bunch of US are talking about decentering of

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Speaker 4: the dollar, that the dollar is being massively overweight, and

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Speaker 4: reserve portfolios in transactions, in payment systems, in currency pegs.

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Speaker 4: All of that I think is potentially starting to be unwhound.

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Speaker 4: I don't think it's it's all gonna go away by

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Speaker 4: any means, but I do think there is a meaningful

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Speaker 4: shift with.

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Speaker 2: It's Adam Posen of the Peterson Institute in Washington, and

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Speaker 2: we welcome all of you on your commute across the

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Speaker 2: nation this morning. Good Morning ninety nine one FM in Washington,

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Speaker 2: Nathan Hager Radio ninety two nine in Boston and Brookline,

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Speaker 2: and of course Bloomberg eleventh three to zero here in

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Speaker 2: New York on YouTube. It is a digital experiment growing

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Speaker 2: each and every day. The best way is to subscribe

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Speaker 2: to Bloomberg podcast. Anticipated is September nineteenth of this autumn,

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Speaker 2: where there will be a wonderful, I guess, virtual moment

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Speaker 2: for Adam Posen at the Peterson Institute with Jason Furman

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Speaker 2: and Kenneth Rogueoff. And what's so important about this It's

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Speaker 2: an honor of Richard and Cooper who was at Harvard

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Speaker 2: for years and synthesized our economics together. Adam Posen get

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Speaker 2: out front of the September nineteenth date. How do we

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Speaker 2: synthesize the American turboil now into twenty twenty six.

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Speaker 4: Thank you for mentioning our third annual Richard and Cooper

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Speaker 4: Memorial Lecture, which his family has paid for at the Institute,

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Speaker 4: and we're very proud to have Ken Rogoff being this

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Speaker 4: year's lecture in Jason Furman, his Harvard colleague chair to

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Speaker 4: synthesize it, Tom, I have an article forthcoming at Foreign Affairs,

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Speaker 4: which I know you read, talking about the fact that

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Speaker 4: the change in the regime from the Trump administration is

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Speaker 4: very real in the sense building what I was just

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Speaker 4: saying with the dollar, in the sense that the Trump

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Speaker 4: administration is not just renegotiating the pricing of the public

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Speaker 4: goods that it provides the rest of the world. It

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Speaker 4: is fundamentally altering the credibility of the promises, the reliability,

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Speaker 4: the nature of the relationship that the US has economically

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Speaker 4: with other countries. And as a result, as we just

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Speaker 4: spoke about repricing of risk on dollar assets, including treasuries,

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Speaker 4: I think that a bunch of countries, a bunch of companies,

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Speaker 4: a bunch of investors are reallocating. And you mentioned Dick

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Speaker 4: Cooper and the book that I first knew about from

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Speaker 4: Dick Cooper was his nineteen sixty eight book The Economics

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Speaker 4: of Interdependence that ahead of everybody else, He said, Look,

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Speaker 4: the US has to reckon with the fact that other

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Speaker 4: economies are interdependent with us. They're dependent on us, We're

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Speaker 4: dependent on them, and we have to figure out how

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Speaker 4: to balance that and work that. And the Trump administration,

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Speaker 4: as far as I can tell from all their policies

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Speaker 4: since retaking office, is basically saying, wherever we're dominant in

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Speaker 4: an immediate sense, where we're less dependent than they are,

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Speaker 4: we will try to extract as much as possible.

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Speaker 2: Time And because of time, this is so important what

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Speaker 2: we're talking about here, folks beyond Trump and I go

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Speaker 2: to Speaker Secretary Lutnik talking yesterday the certitude of a

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Speaker 2: unilateral power of America. Do you think we get back

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Speaker 2: to traditional American interdependency after Trump or is this a

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Speaker 2: one off and permanent change for generations.

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Speaker 4: I think it's somewhere in between. I think, just as

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Speaker 4: with the alliance relationships in Europe, as Koreyshaki has spoken about,

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Speaker 4: that there are some fundamental changes tearing up of trust

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Speaker 4: that will take a generation rebuild. But I also think

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Speaker 4: that this set of policies is going to blow up,

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Speaker 4: unfortunately for the US, over the next few years. Whether

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Speaker 4: it's two years or six years, I unfortunately can't say,

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Speaker 4: but it's going to blow up. And presumably at that point,

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Speaker 4: just as after Herbert Hoover and Andrew Mellon in the thirties,

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Speaker 4: there was a reckoning. I hate the combination of foreign

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Speaker 4: and economic policies that are being pursued. I use the

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Speaker 4: term hate because I think it combines bad policy making

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Speaker 4: bad impact with bad values. And I am hopeful, just

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Speaker 4: as the US found its way in the forties and

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Speaker 4: fifties to a more constructive engagement with the rest of

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Speaker 4: the world, a more realistic in its own self interest frankly,

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Speaker 4: that the US will do so again. But I'm also

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Speaker 4: advocating and hoping and engaging that the rest of the

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Speaker 4: world can create and maintain things that without the US

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Speaker 4: and China real quickly.

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Speaker 5: So Adam, just to put a bow and that is international,

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Speaker 5: at least for the near term. Globalization is that over.

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Speaker 4: No, Paul, I think it's corroded. I think the US

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Speaker 4: aspects of globalization are definitely in retreat, but you can

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Speaker 4: see osion and CPTPP, the various arrangements in Asia deepening

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Speaker 4: and expanding. You can see the EU stepping up, not

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Speaker 4: as much as perhaps the moment calls for, but much

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Speaker 4: more than in the past, and integrating slightly more. You

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Speaker 4: can see Brazil and India and Turkey the major emerging markets,

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Speaker 4: and Indonesia pursuing again a mix of good and bad policies,

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Speaker 4: but still fundamentally pro globalization. The world goes on, but

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Speaker 4: it is a more rugged world after the seismic shock

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Speaker 4: from Trump. It is a world where the roads are

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Speaker 4: less good and some of it has to be rebuilt.

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Speaker 2: Adam Post and thank you so much, greatly, greatly, I

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Speaker 2: appreciate it, anticipating his effort for four and airs coming

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Speaker 2: out in the coming weeks.

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Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Surveillance Podcast. Catch us live

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Speaker 1: weekday afternoons from seven to ten am Eastern Listen on

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Speaker 1: Applecarplay and Android Otto with the Bloomberg Business app, or

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Speaker 1: watch US live on YouTube.

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Speaker 3: Lebby Cantrell is.

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Speaker 2: With PIMCO and it's looking at Washington policy.

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Speaker 3: Le mey uh. There's a point.

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Speaker 2: I remember a book of the summer ten years ago

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Speaker 2: was a one volume on John Hay it was absolutely

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Speaker 2: superb and before air conditioning, it was how Washington came

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Speaker 2: to a complete total halt in July.

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Speaker 3: Is there a summerness to your Washington d C.

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Speaker 6: I mean there typically is. I think we all gotta

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Speaker 6: wait with baited breath for usually for the August recess.

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Speaker 6: You know, Tom, though, I think that this president has

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Speaker 6: proved that, regardless of Congress is in session or not,

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Speaker 6: there are still many headlines and subsequent market reactions to

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Speaker 6: to those headlines in Washington, regardless of Congress is in

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Speaker 6: So I'm not sure it will make that much of

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Speaker 6: a difference this year, But usually it is a time

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Speaker 6: where people do go on vacation and and enjoy the

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Speaker 6: restpite before what usually is a busy fall in Congress, Can.

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Speaker 5: Fed Chairman J. Palace, You're going to be able to

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Speaker 5: enjoy the rest of this summer into the fall here.

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Speaker 5: How do you view that whole process, that issue?

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Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean it's you know, I think you know.

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Speaker 6: Our view, I think, very much like Stephanie, is that

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Speaker 6: that that Fed chair Palell is going to stay the course.

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Speaker 6: We do not think that it is likely that he

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Speaker 6: either resigns or that President Trump actually fires him for

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Speaker 6: a variety of reasons, most of which it is self

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Speaker 6: defeating for the president. We do not think it's the

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Speaker 6: lower interest rates. We think it all can make it

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Speaker 6: much harder for him to confirm basically anybody that he wants,

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Speaker 6: particularly more dubbish, a dubbish person. So I think that he,

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Speaker 6: you know, J. Powell, probably will will not be resty

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Speaker 6: as much as he would want to in August. But

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Speaker 6: again I think we agree with him with Stephanie is

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Speaker 6: not that he's not going anywhere and he will stay

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Speaker 6: the course.

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Speaker 2: Libby synthesize your work on political economics and the politics

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Speaker 2: at Washington into.

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Speaker 3: The world of PIMCOH.

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Speaker 2: We're hearing in the zeitgeist a more constructive tone, as

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Speaker 2: we just heard from his Roth of Wolf research, a

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Speaker 2: more constructive summer, a more constructive Q three, OMG, we're

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Speaker 2: going to survive tariffs. Fold that into the bond market

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Speaker 2: in what yield would do? Does that get us back

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Speaker 2: on a disinflationary vector of low yields or do we

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Speaker 2: have stimulus that gives us stable yields or higher yields?

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Speaker 6: Yeah?

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Speaker 3: We think.

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Speaker 6: I mean, we've been saying now for about a year

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Speaker 6: that our view has been that you'll most likely get

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Speaker 6: a steeper curve, whether that is sort of a bear

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Speaker 6: steepening or a bull steepening, you can basically get both

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Speaker 6: right where you have more term pre at the long

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Speaker 6: end of the curve, as investors like pim Go require

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Speaker 6: more yield to invest in longer term paper, but at

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Speaker 6: the same time you also expect the FED to likely

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Speaker 6: cut and that is our view. We do think that

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Speaker 6: you may get more term premium at the end as

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Speaker 6: folks do get increasingly concerned about the deficit situation about

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Speaker 6: potentially the independence of the FED. But at the same

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Speaker 6: time that the economy is accelerating and you know, you

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Speaker 6: may see a little bit of stimulus from the tax bill.

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Speaker 6: I'm not sure that's really been sufficiently reported, just in

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Speaker 6: terms of some of the retroactive tax provisions that were

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Speaker 6: retroactive to the beginning of twenty twenty five. That means

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Speaker 6: just the bottom line here is that consumers will actually

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Speaker 6: be getting some nice tax refunds in the beginning of

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Speaker 6: next year, but also businesses will be able to take

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Speaker 6: advantage as some of these new business tax provisions starting

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Speaker 6: kind of you know, in the fall. Most likely, so

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Speaker 6: you could see some you know, marginal physical stimulus. We're

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Speaker 6: penciling in about half a point over the next twelve

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Speaker 6: months from the tax bill. But that said that the

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Speaker 6: tariffs are still in place, and we continue to believe,

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Speaker 6: and maybe we're in the minority here, that the President

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Speaker 6: is not you know, tacoing if he will on tariffs.

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Speaker 6: He really believes this. He believes this is an opportunity

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Speaker 6: to really remake the global trading order, and I think

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Speaker 6: it would be sort of foolish, honestly to not take

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Speaker 6: him seriously that higher tariffs are likely coming. Regardless though, Tom,

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Speaker 6: this is important is that the tarifrad is already high.

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Speaker 6: You know, we're we're assuming that the tariff rate is

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Speaker 6: about thirteen fourteen percent, and again we'll likely go high

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Speaker 6: even if you don't see these reciprocal tariffs going on

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Speaker 6: August first. I, Paul.

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Speaker 3: I can't get my head around that. I'm still frank.

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Speaker 3: I've heard thirteen, I've heard fifteen, give me seven other numbers.

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Speaker 3: I know we are so far from three.

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Speaker 5: So far from three. And the question obviously is how

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Speaker 5: much will corporate take it in their margin versus passing

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Speaker 5: along to consumers.

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Speaker 7: So Libby.

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Speaker 5: I also want to look a small page forward here

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Speaker 5: to September. When our esteemed Congress returns in September. They

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Speaker 5: got to pass some legislation to keep the government open,

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Speaker 5: don't they Yes.

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Speaker 6: As a reminder, in the tax bill, which I think

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Speaker 6: we all welcomed in the bond market, they did address

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Speaker 6: the debt ceiling. So the debt ceiling is usually that

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Speaker 6: that is a you know, because they're a big crisis,

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Speaker 6: or at least momentarily crisis for the bond market. We're

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Speaker 6: not going to see that the debt ceiling has now

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Speaker 6: been increased, likely to be on twenty twenty eight, if

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Speaker 6: not even, or twenty twenty seven if not further. But

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Speaker 6: but we do still need Congress to fund the government

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Speaker 6: to avert a shutdown deadline to September thirtieth. They haven't

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Speaker 6: made a lot of progress. We could see a government shutdown.

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Speaker 6: I'm not sure if it's a real market event, but

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Speaker 6: clearly if the market is already feeling kind of if

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Speaker 6: they're already on edge, or if they will be on

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Speaker 6: edge in September, this could sort of exascerbate that one.

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Speaker 2: If I got a note here, not a hate you know,

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Speaker 2: I do get the hate man Michael Bargets all the

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Speaker 2: love notes, but Lebbie Cantrell is the basic tone of

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Speaker 2: the American zeitgeist that we're prospering in a prosperous America

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Speaker 2: and that with all this legislation, all of the administration's work,

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Speaker 2: all of our work, we're leaving behind a huge part

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Speaker 2: of America. Is that the backstory of this twenty twenty five.

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Speaker 6: I'm not exactly sure what you mean by but we're.

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Speaker 3: We're leaving behind.

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Speaker 2: I'm getting notes from people saying, all your fancy people,

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Speaker 2: all your fancy guests, are talking about in America that's employed,

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Speaker 2: prosperous in the stock market, whatever, in the bond market

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Speaker 2: with Pimco funds. The fact is we're leaving a whole

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Speaker 2: hunk of America behind, right.

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Speaker 6: You know, I think that's absolutely right, And I mean,

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Speaker 6: this is part of the reason why I think the

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Speaker 6: majority of Americans elected President Trump is that they did

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Speaker 6: feel like the sort of the establishment that the elites,

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Speaker 6: the Bloomberg elites, if you will, Tom, we're, you know,

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Speaker 6: we're leaving the kind of the working person behind. I'm

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Speaker 6: not sure if those folks feel like this that Trump

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Speaker 6: administration elites yet yet have addressed some of those concerns,

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Speaker 6: particularly around cost of living. I mean these are all,

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Speaker 6: you know, kitchen table issues. These are still are the

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Speaker 6: most important for voters. And I'm not that that doesn't

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Speaker 6: seem to have gone away if you just look at

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Speaker 6: least it's for the pulling. Take that with a great

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Speaker 6: self n I see.

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Speaker 2: Butt Lebby, Thank you so much. Lett me cantrill with

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Speaker 2: pimcom with this Morning.

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Speaker 1: This is the Bloomberg Surveillance Podcast. Listen live each weekday

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Speaker 1: starting at seven am Eastern on Apple Corplay and Android

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Speaker 1: Auto with the Bloomberg Business Up. You can also listen

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Speaker 1: live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship New York station.

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Speaker 1: Just say Alexa play Bloomberg eleven thirty.

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Speaker 3: It is a single sentence. At the end of his report,

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Speaker 3: Ian White is with Huntington Bank.

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Speaker 2: With a perspective difference in three zip codes in Manhattan,

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Speaker 2: the Southeast is out performing northern states for total spending growth,

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Speaker 2: partly reflecting a growing younger population.

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Speaker 3: Give us a Huntington Bank anecdote. How the ute from

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Speaker 3: the northeast are going south?

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Speaker 8: I mean, look at Charlotte, I'm based there. You can

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Speaker 8: see tons of New York bankers ending up there having kids.

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Speaker 8: It's huge banking center right now. And we're seeing across

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Speaker 8: the Southeast and Texas, of course, just remarkable growth. That's

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Speaker 8: part of why you know, we made an acquisition in

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Speaker 8: Veritex and Dallas. Leaning into the demographic trends, Dallas blows

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Speaker 8: my mind numbers wise. If you look at the census

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Speaker 8: data from the estimates for population since twenty twenty through

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Speaker 8: twenty four, Dallas added about six hundred and seventy thousand

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Speaker 8: people the number so Texas added the most people, Florida

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Speaker 8: the second most. North Carolina was third in terms of

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Speaker 8: population growth. North Carolina only added five hundred and ninety

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Speaker 8: thousand people, So Dallas added Washington, d C.

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Speaker 3: That's great. I love that Dallas head in Washington, d C.

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Speaker 3: It's too good to be true. What's the worry? What's

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Speaker 3: the constraint on this great migration?

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Speaker 8: Definitely, cost is becoming more of an issue. You look

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Speaker 8: at housing costs in a lot of these cities that

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Speaker 8: were pretty affordable, you've seen that really go up. Now

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Speaker 8: in recent months, we've seen a bit of a pullback

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Speaker 8: and home prices there, especially in desirable areas in near

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Speaker 8: core you have run up where the affordability gap isn't

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Speaker 8: quite as strong as it once was, so we are

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Speaker 8: a bit concerned about that. For somewhere like the Carolinas,

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Speaker 8: where we're growing organically. We've at Hudntington, we've recently started

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Speaker 8: opening branches and we open commercial commercial offices in all

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Speaker 8: six major metro areas across both Carolinas each What's interesting

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Speaker 8: there is every metro almost has a different economic model,

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Speaker 8: and so you have probably six distinct economic models you

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Speaker 8: can look across the six big metro areas there, so

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Speaker 8: each one has a different thing driving its growth, but

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Speaker 8: it is generally, you know, business friendly climate. People want

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Speaker 8: to live there. And the reality is companies right now,

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Speaker 8: in an environment where labor force isn't growing, the twenty

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Speaker 8: five to fifty four year old population is basically flat

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Speaker 8: in the United States, especially with lower immigration, companies are

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Speaker 8: going to follow workers and they're following where they want

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Speaker 8: to live, and Texas continues to attract them and just

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Speaker 8: unbelievable numbers, and the Carolinas are also doing very well

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Speaker 8: as well.

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Speaker 5: All right, let's step back, what's your view overall of

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Speaker 5: just kind of this US coonvy. I don't know if

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Speaker 5: you lead with the labor market, lead with the consumer.

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Speaker 5: I mean, we know everything's great then in the Carolinas,

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Speaker 5: in Texas, we get that It's been that way actually

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Speaker 5: my entire career, quite frankly, broader speaking, how are you

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Speaker 5: guys thinking about things? What are you hearing from your clients?

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Speaker 8: We see it as clients still see a somewhat conservative

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Speaker 8: consumer who's not making huge purchases. They're a little hesitant

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Speaker 8: on debt finance purchases. If you talk about you know,

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Speaker 8: we have a large business in RV plan lending, boats, marine, jetskis,

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Speaker 8: all those things.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, we do Vesta scooters. Yeah, so you know se

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Speaker 7: do or something like that.

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Speaker 8: We'll do a lot of a lot of their dealers

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Speaker 8: We have relationships there where we do a lot of

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Speaker 8: the dealerships. And you still see that consumer whose debt

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Speaker 8: financed is a little hesitant. They're that lower end product.

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Speaker 8: The higher end product, the consumer who's you know, selling

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Speaker 8: equity near retirement. They may have had that conversation, you know,

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Speaker 8: back in December with their advisor where they have that

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Speaker 8: annual review and they say, you know, how much money

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Speaker 8: do you want to do?

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Speaker 7: You want to die with you know, have some fun

436
00:25:31,800 --> 00:25:32,600
Speaker 7: with it, enjoy it.

437
00:25:32,640 --> 00:25:35,880
Speaker 8: You're doing pretty well, and so we still see that

438
00:25:35,880 --> 00:25:38,040
Speaker 8: that consumer I think is the base of the US

439
00:25:38,119 --> 00:25:40,919
Speaker 8: economy right now and really what's driving growth. You know,

440
00:25:41,040 --> 00:25:43,280
Speaker 8: they're the ones who refinanced in twenty one. They're the

441
00:25:43,280 --> 00:25:45,840
Speaker 8: ones who inflation hasn't affected them very much.

442
00:25:46,400 --> 00:25:51,280
Speaker 3: So if Michael Barr finances his spark tricks se do

443
00:25:51,960 --> 00:25:56,119
Speaker 3: ye at nine ninety nine dollars, you can get financing

444
00:25:56,160 --> 00:25:56,439
Speaker 3: from you.

445
00:25:57,680 --> 00:26:00,800
Speaker 8: It's more we've probably financed his dealer is where now

446
00:26:00,840 --> 00:26:02,360
Speaker 8: we can do the financing on this too.

447
00:26:03,160 --> 00:26:06,240
Speaker 7: But his dealer's floor plan, his floor plan facility.

448
00:26:06,359 --> 00:26:09,840
Speaker 8: Yeah, we probably We have a relationship with Bombardier recreation products.

449
00:26:10,240 --> 00:26:14,000
Speaker 5: You what are you hearing from your clients in the

450
00:26:14,040 --> 00:26:18,280
Speaker 5: Midwest where hunting started. What are they telling.

451
00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:18,920
Speaker 6: You these days?

452
00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:20,919
Speaker 5: Again, we know the Southeast is kind of booming, but

453
00:26:20,920 --> 00:26:24,400
Speaker 5: you're you guys are hunting at Columbus, Ohio, big Midwest

454
00:26:24,600 --> 00:26:25,520
Speaker 5: presence historically.

455
00:26:25,560 --> 00:26:28,040
Speaker 7: What are they telling you, I'd say a couple a

456
00:26:28,080 --> 00:26:28,640
Speaker 7: couple of things.

457
00:26:28,680 --> 00:26:32,080
Speaker 8: One definitely, trying to pull back the supply chain to

458
00:26:32,119 --> 00:26:34,480
Speaker 8: the United States is a real thing that's happening, and

459
00:26:34,520 --> 00:26:36,440
Speaker 8: It really depends on the industry whether they think it's

460
00:26:36,440 --> 00:26:38,439
Speaker 8: going to happen. You know, I talked to a company

461
00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:40,600
Speaker 8: and building products and they just said, look, the entire

462
00:26:40,600 --> 00:26:43,399
Speaker 8: supply chain for our entire industry, soup to knots is

463
00:26:43,400 --> 00:26:46,520
Speaker 8: in one province in China, and we just don't know

464
00:26:46,560 --> 00:26:48,280
Speaker 8: if we can move it at all. So we're going

465
00:26:48,359 --> 00:26:50,000
Speaker 8: to have to deal with the tariffs and figure out

466
00:26:50,040 --> 00:26:51,200
Speaker 8: ways just to manage.

467
00:26:50,920 --> 00:26:55,480
Speaker 2: It'll be quickly here. So timeline do you have where

468
00:26:55,880 --> 00:26:58,320
Speaker 2: we rationalize one province in China?

469
00:26:59,160 --> 00:26:59,919
Speaker 7: I don't know.

470
00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:01,760
Speaker 8: I think it really depends product to product.

471
00:27:01,800 --> 00:27:03,280
Speaker 7: Autos it's definitely coming back.

472
00:27:03,320 --> 00:27:07,280
Speaker 8: There's definitely moves to get more parts made here, more

473
00:27:07,359 --> 00:27:11,800
Speaker 8: things made here. We're hearing that. In terms of the Midwest,

474
00:27:11,800 --> 00:27:13,520
Speaker 8: I also think there's a little bit of a growth

475
00:27:13,560 --> 00:27:17,000
Speaker 8: split where we're seeing better data for say, anything.

476
00:27:16,800 --> 00:27:18,800
Speaker 7: South of the Great Lakes. So in Indianapolis.

477
00:27:18,840 --> 00:27:20,880
Speaker 8: Indianapolis, if you look at their job growth data, it's

478
00:27:20,880 --> 00:27:24,959
Speaker 8: basically been a sat Sun belt market since twenty twenty.

479
00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:28,760
Speaker 8: Columbus is doing a bit better, Cincinnati's doing a bit better.

480
00:27:28,840 --> 00:27:30,679
Speaker 8: So you kind of have that strength in the southern

481
00:27:30,720 --> 00:27:34,960
Speaker 8: half of our footprint that you're a little stronger overall, though.

482
00:27:35,080 --> 00:27:37,920
Speaker 8: I also, you know, we probably have seen a little

483
00:27:37,960 --> 00:27:41,440
Speaker 8: stronger consumer spending growth in the Southeast and the South

484
00:27:42,080 --> 00:27:44,440
Speaker 8: when you look at the real time spending data.

485
00:27:44,080 --> 00:27:46,800
Speaker 3: In one thank you so much. With huntingson bank there

486
00:27:46,840 --> 00:27:49,040
Speaker 3: a view to the southeast.

487
00:27:54,560 --> 00:27:58,480
Speaker 1: This is the Bloomberg Surveillance Podcast. Listen live each weekday

488
00:27:58,520 --> 00:28:01,560
Speaker 1: starting at seven am Eastern on Apple Karplay and Android

489
00:28:01,560 --> 00:28:04,560
Speaker 1: Auto with the Bloomberg Business app. You can also watch

490
00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:07,600
Speaker 1: us live every weekday on YouTube and always on the

491
00:28:07,600 --> 00:28:08,720
Speaker 1: Bloomberg terminal.

492
00:28:09,160 --> 00:28:12,600
Speaker 2: In honor of this bitcoin discussion, I went back to

493
00:28:12,600 --> 00:28:16,120
Speaker 2: where the trend happened in bitcoin twenty fifteen.

494
00:28:16,240 --> 00:28:20,040
Speaker 3: And Paul I did a log linear extrapolation of bitdog

495
00:28:20,400 --> 00:28:22,720
Speaker 3: and I can assure you in the late summer of

496
00:28:22,760 --> 00:28:27,080
Speaker 3: twenty twenty eight, bitcoin will be worth one million dollars. Okay,

497
00:28:27,200 --> 00:28:29,520
Speaker 3: pretty bell coin. So there you go, with the velocity

498
00:28:29,960 --> 00:28:30,840
Speaker 3: of the lift in.

499
00:28:30,840 --> 00:28:33,720
Speaker 5: Bitcoin, Bitcoin sitting right here at one hundred and nineteen

500
00:28:33,760 --> 00:28:38,760
Speaker 5: thousand dollars even just an extraordinary run. Here, Aysha Kiani joins,

501
00:28:38,760 --> 00:28:42,360
Speaker 5: and she's a COO of M and C group. Also

502
00:28:42,520 --> 00:28:47,440
Speaker 5: over there at a professor at NYU Little College downtown

503
00:28:47,520 --> 00:28:52,600
Speaker 5: Manhattan are issha. What is the theme around crypto these days?

504
00:28:52,720 --> 00:28:55,040
Speaker 5: Is it the fact that we have an administration now

505
00:28:55,920 --> 00:28:58,960
Speaker 5: that seems to be embracing crypto broadly defined? Is that

506
00:28:59,040 --> 00:29:00,000
Speaker 5: kind of the main narration?

507
00:29:00,680 --> 00:29:03,080
Speaker 9: I think the main narrative is that there's no stopping

508
00:29:03,160 --> 00:29:07,240
Speaker 9: us anymore. Right, So I know where we have basically

509
00:29:08,040 --> 00:29:12,120
Speaker 9: been unleashed, and so number one driving forces obviously the

510
00:29:12,160 --> 00:29:17,240
Speaker 9: ETFs inflows, right, three point one in bitcoin three point

511
00:29:17,320 --> 00:29:21,200
Speaker 9: four or five in ethereum billion, just in like last week.

512
00:29:21,320 --> 00:29:21,480
Speaker 6: Right.

513
00:29:21,880 --> 00:29:25,760
Speaker 9: The other thing is that the pro Legislative Action on

514
00:29:27,120 --> 00:29:30,920
Speaker 9: Genius Bill, which is the stable Coin Act, Right, So.

515
00:29:30,840 --> 00:29:32,560
Speaker 5: What does that act say? What does it do?

516
00:29:32,720 --> 00:29:35,280
Speaker 9: The Act sss that if you're a bank or if

517
00:29:35,280 --> 00:29:38,880
Speaker 9: you're a company, you are authorized to create your own

518
00:29:39,200 --> 00:29:43,680
Speaker 9: stable coin backed by the US dollar. Okay, so if

519
00:29:43,720 --> 00:29:46,200
Speaker 9: you're going to create ten stable coins, you have to

520
00:29:46,240 --> 00:29:48,040
Speaker 9: have ten dollars in your bank.

521
00:29:48,960 --> 00:29:52,800
Speaker 5: That seems like something that even a Jamie Diamond could

522
00:29:52,840 --> 00:29:53,920
Speaker 5: get behind.

523
00:29:53,640 --> 00:29:56,880
Speaker 9: And he has been getting behind. City Bank has been

524
00:29:56,880 --> 00:30:01,600
Speaker 9: getting behind. We are seeing a lot of action on

525
00:30:02,040 --> 00:30:06,200
Speaker 9: the banking side where every bank is either sorry.

526
00:30:06,040 --> 00:30:07,280
Speaker 3: No, no, I don't mean to grow up.

527
00:30:07,520 --> 00:30:12,120
Speaker 9: I'm listening so basically every bank is very much interested

528
00:30:12,600 --> 00:30:14,800
Speaker 9: in coming up with their own stable coin.

529
00:30:15,040 --> 00:30:18,880
Speaker 2: What's the Is the underlying changed on bitcoin from when

530
00:30:18,920 --> 00:30:22,400
Speaker 2: it was forty thousand or four thousand. Is it a

531
00:30:22,480 --> 00:30:24,920
Speaker 2: new bitcoin or is it the same old bitcoin it

532
00:30:25,000 --> 00:30:25,920
Speaker 2: was seven years ago?

533
00:30:26,040 --> 00:30:28,320
Speaker 9: It's the same old bitcoin at the same old cold

534
00:30:28,480 --> 00:30:31,920
Speaker 9: It's the same old mining process that the same miners

535
00:30:33,280 --> 00:30:36,960
Speaker 9: us has just grown in concentration in mining that bitcoin

536
00:30:37,120 --> 00:30:37,920
Speaker 9: from seven years.

537
00:30:37,960 --> 00:30:40,760
Speaker 3: Can you state that Gary Gensler allowed for the lift

538
00:30:40,760 --> 00:30:43,560
Speaker 3: in bitcoin by opening it up to people like Blackrock.

539
00:30:43,920 --> 00:30:47,160
Speaker 9: Ah, yes, he did right, He opened up a different market.

540
00:30:47,200 --> 00:30:50,600
Speaker 9: But I think more than him, it's the current administration

541
00:30:51,160 --> 00:30:55,360
Speaker 9: because with you know, previous administration, especially with Gary Gensler

542
00:30:55,360 --> 00:30:59,640
Speaker 9: and SEC, we struggled in defining digital assets. But we're

543
00:30:59,640 --> 00:31:03,760
Speaker 9: finally have that point where the conversations have become very

544
00:31:03,800 --> 00:31:06,880
Speaker 9: easy to say that, look, this is a digital asset,

545
00:31:06,880 --> 00:31:10,000
Speaker 9: this is a digital security. This is just a coin

546
00:31:10,320 --> 00:31:13,560
Speaker 9: that just needs to exist to prove the blockchain. And

547
00:31:14,320 --> 00:31:17,760
Speaker 9: SEC and CFTC have come forward very welcome in in

548
00:31:17,920 --> 00:31:20,080
Speaker 9: understanding on all of these terminologies.

549
00:31:20,080 --> 00:31:23,960
Speaker 2: When you lectured NYU, can you suggest that it's being

550
00:31:24,160 --> 00:31:27,720
Speaker 2: used less for criminal activity worldwide.

551
00:31:27,960 --> 00:31:32,800
Speaker 9: Sure, so we have companies like TRM, Chain Analysis, Elliptic

552
00:31:33,200 --> 00:31:36,480
Speaker 9: that basically monitored these transactions, right number one. Number two

553
00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:39,840
Speaker 9: thing is when we're working with companies like canter or

554
00:31:39,880 --> 00:31:42,360
Speaker 9: you know, gold min Sex or Google of the world,

555
00:31:42,760 --> 00:31:46,760
Speaker 9: they would want funds like us to have such monitoring

556
00:31:46,800 --> 00:31:50,840
Speaker 9: infrastructure in place, which these companies provide. And yes, so

557
00:31:50,960 --> 00:31:54,200
Speaker 9: it is very much loose used very less for illicit

558
00:31:54,320 --> 00:31:58,840
Speaker 9: activity now because all of it is very traceable. And

559
00:31:58,920 --> 00:32:00,880
Speaker 9: I teach my students this. So I was like, guys, look,

560
00:32:00,960 --> 00:32:04,120
Speaker 9: if tomorrow you think you can hide one bitcoin to

561
00:32:04,360 --> 00:32:07,400
Speaker 9: you know, for an illicit purposes, this is how I'm

562
00:32:07,400 --> 00:32:08,200
Speaker 9: going to find you.

563
00:32:08,880 --> 00:32:11,280
Speaker 5: So on the Bloomberg terminal for those folks on the

564
00:32:11,320 --> 00:32:14,520
Speaker 5: Bloomberg terminal, Bloomberg Intelligence covers a crypto space across the

565
00:32:14,520 --> 00:32:19,160
Speaker 5: board BI space c r yp crypto will get you

566
00:32:19,240 --> 00:32:20,960
Speaker 5: all the research and all the data you need there.

567
00:32:21,520 --> 00:32:24,200
Speaker 5: So I issue, what's the talk now in the crypto

568
00:32:24,360 --> 00:32:27,760
Speaker 5: space for people like Tom and I, it's kind of

569
00:32:27,840 --> 00:32:30,520
Speaker 5: bitcoin and we quote bitcoin h and.

570
00:32:30,400 --> 00:32:31,160
Speaker 3: That's about it.

571
00:32:32,280 --> 00:32:35,200
Speaker 5: How is this? How is the crypto space evolving? Where's

572
00:32:35,200 --> 00:32:37,800
Speaker 5: the next one to two to three years for crypto

573
00:32:37,840 --> 00:32:38,480
Speaker 5: broadly to find.

574
00:32:38,720 --> 00:32:41,760
Speaker 9: So when you're covering bitcoin, right, you're basically covering the

575
00:32:41,920 --> 00:32:47,880
Speaker 9: entire representation of dital assets because bitcoin is our real representation.

576
00:32:48,520 --> 00:32:52,120
Speaker 9: Some people may disagree with that. But where three to

577
00:32:52,200 --> 00:32:56,280
Speaker 9: four ears, we're headed as stable coins. Right, you're standing

578
00:32:56,360 --> 00:32:59,000
Speaker 9: at Starbucks, you're transacting in your stable. You don't have

579
00:32:59,080 --> 00:33:02,000
Speaker 9: to do it with your credit card. We're seeing also

580
00:33:02,080 --> 00:33:06,800
Speaker 9: MasterCard working with their own crypto infra rail to basically

581
00:33:06,840 --> 00:33:10,239
Speaker 9: provide solutions. So there's no buybacks, right. One thing that

582
00:33:10,320 --> 00:33:14,600
Speaker 9: crypto provides is absolute finality in their transaction. There's not

583
00:33:14,640 --> 00:33:17,240
Speaker 9: going to be any buybacks from or there's not going

584
00:33:17,320 --> 00:33:18,880
Speaker 9: to be any cancelations.

585
00:33:18,280 --> 00:33:19,120
Speaker 3: On credit cards.

586
00:33:19,160 --> 00:33:22,680
Speaker 9: Right, So in star in Starbucks, right, you're like, hey,

587
00:33:22,760 --> 00:33:28,480
Speaker 9: here's five USDC or five US MasterCard, see you tomorrow.

588
00:33:28,960 --> 00:33:31,040
Speaker 9: That's where we're that's where we're headed.

589
00:33:31,200 --> 00:33:33,719
Speaker 2: Don't be a strange. I got eighteen more questions, thank you.

590
00:33:34,040 --> 00:33:37,000
Speaker 2: So I used to carry with us with NYU where

591
00:33:37,040 --> 00:33:41,320
Speaker 2: she teaches on bitcoin, a whole resume of accomplish roots.

592
00:33:41,680 --> 00:33:45,600
Speaker 1: This is the Bloomberg Surveillance Podcast. Listen live each weekday

593
00:33:45,640 --> 00:33:48,680
Speaker 1: starting at seven am Eastern on Apple, Corplay and Android

594
00:33:48,680 --> 00:33:51,720
Speaker 1: Auto with the Bloomberg Business app. You can also listen

595
00:33:51,800 --> 00:33:55,080
Speaker 1: live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship New York station.

596
00:33:55,600 --> 00:33:58,240
Speaker 1: Just say Alexa play Bloomberg eleven thirty.

597
00:33:58,400 --> 00:34:03,200
Speaker 3: Good morning everyone, pauls. I'm here getting through a July week.

598
00:34:03,400 --> 00:34:06,840
Speaker 2: Lots of interesting cross currents here, and of course the

599
00:34:06,880 --> 00:34:10,600
Speaker 2: diversion of the newspapers up all night and at three

600
00:34:10,680 --> 00:34:14,400
Speaker 2: am to give us some choice marsels, Lisa Matella.

601
00:34:14,080 --> 00:34:14,440
Speaker 3: What do you have?

602
00:34:14,600 --> 00:34:14,920
Speaker 4: All Right?

603
00:34:15,160 --> 00:34:17,360
Speaker 10: We've been talking a lot about the affordability crisis in

604
00:34:17,400 --> 00:34:19,880
Speaker 10: New York City, right, but now it's expanding to a

605
00:34:19,960 --> 00:34:22,600
Speaker 10: new area. And The New York Times points out animal

606
00:34:22,719 --> 00:34:25,640
Speaker 10: shelters because they say that a lot of New Yorkers

607
00:34:25,680 --> 00:34:28,240
Speaker 10: have been turning in their pets because they can't afford

608
00:34:28,239 --> 00:34:30,839
Speaker 10: to keep them. Right, they either lost their housing, or

609
00:34:30,880 --> 00:34:32,279
Speaker 10: maybe they have to move to a new place that

610
00:34:32,320 --> 00:34:34,520
Speaker 10: doesn't allow pets, or maybe they just can't afford to

611
00:34:34,560 --> 00:34:37,360
Speaker 10: feed them because you guys know, it's expensive, right to

612
00:34:37,400 --> 00:34:40,360
Speaker 10: have a pet. So what they're saying is that the

613
00:34:40,400 --> 00:34:42,239
Speaker 10: shelters don't have rooms, so a lot of them are

614
00:34:42,280 --> 00:34:45,479
Speaker 10: being turned away, a lot of the animals. There are

615
00:34:45,480 --> 00:34:48,240
Speaker 10: two new animal shelters under construction, The Bronx and Brooklyn,

616
00:34:48,280 --> 00:34:50,520
Speaker 10: but they're not opening until next year. But they're saying

617
00:34:50,560 --> 00:34:53,240
Speaker 10: this is just a growing problem. They have some pets

618
00:34:53,239 --> 00:34:56,480
Speaker 10: that are like in one cage together and they're just

619
00:34:56,560 --> 00:34:58,440
Speaker 10: running out of space. So that's the issue.

620
00:34:58,200 --> 00:35:01,640
Speaker 3: Here is for COVID. Everybody a pet during COVIDS.

621
00:35:01,640 --> 00:35:04,640
Speaker 10: Sense of course, I was this close to getting a

622
00:35:04,680 --> 00:35:05,600
Speaker 10: pet during COVID.

623
00:35:05,719 --> 00:35:07,719
Speaker 3: Paul, would you like to talk about up all night

624
00:35:07,800 --> 00:35:08,240
Speaker 3: with pets?

625
00:35:08,360 --> 00:35:10,040
Speaker 5: Yeah, up all night with a Seamus?

626
00:35:10,120 --> 00:35:12,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, if we enjoyed the first vet Bill.

627
00:35:12,680 --> 00:35:18,600
Speaker 5: Oh yeah, of course, of course. Yeahtrition exactly, exactly.

628
00:35:18,800 --> 00:35:22,160
Speaker 10: Next, Okay, this is something that we were actually just

629
00:35:22,200 --> 00:35:25,279
Speaker 10: talking about in the last segment. For bitcoin, a new

630
00:35:25,360 --> 00:35:27,320
Speaker 10: sign that the biggest banks are endorsing this move to

631
00:35:27,400 --> 00:35:30,080
Speaker 10: digital assets into the mainstream, so sources are telling the

632
00:35:30,080 --> 00:35:34,440
Speaker 10: Financial Times JP Morgan Chase is exploring lending against clients

633
00:35:34,520 --> 00:35:39,160
Speaker 10: cryptocurrency holdings. And it's a big shift because Jamie Diamond

634
00:35:39,280 --> 00:35:41,840
Speaker 10: a few years ago he said bitcoin was a fraud.

635
00:35:42,840 --> 00:35:45,720
Speaker 10: So they say they could start lending directly against crypto

636
00:35:45,760 --> 00:35:49,360
Speaker 10: assets like bitcoin ethereum as soon as next year.

637
00:35:50,320 --> 00:35:51,040
Speaker 6: Plans could change.

638
00:35:51,080 --> 00:35:53,279
Speaker 10: JP Morgan didn't want to comment on this, but it's

639
00:35:53,440 --> 00:35:56,360
Speaker 10: out there and they're saying, you know Diamond's earlier comments

640
00:35:56,360 --> 00:35:59,480
Speaker 10: about bitcoin. The problem was is that it alienated some

641
00:35:59,600 --> 00:36:03,680
Speaker 10: possible clients who either made money through crypto or maybe

642
00:36:03,719 --> 00:36:08,280
Speaker 10: you know of different legislation because you talked about stable coins,

643
00:36:08,280 --> 00:36:09,960
Speaker 10: you know, in the last segment as well, So that

644
00:36:10,080 --> 00:36:12,880
Speaker 10: was another point of it. But it's already taken some steps.

645
00:36:12,880 --> 00:36:15,280
Speaker 10: Remember we talked about plans to begin lending against holdings

646
00:36:15,480 --> 00:36:19,000
Speaker 10: in crypto ETFs for JP Morgan, So this is just

647
00:36:19,440 --> 00:36:21,880
Speaker 10: another step in that. But we'll see, you know, what happens.

648
00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:22,200
Speaker 9: Well.

649
00:36:22,239 --> 00:36:25,880
Speaker 5: To me, the creation of the ETFs for crypto was

650
00:36:26,360 --> 00:36:29,040
Speaker 5: really a validating event for me, at least in just

651
00:36:29,080 --> 00:36:31,880
Speaker 5: in terms of global Wall Street, and it's embrasive crypto

652
00:36:32,120 --> 00:36:36,840
Speaker 5: because it just made it more accessible to individual investors.

653
00:36:36,880 --> 00:36:40,040
Speaker 5: So here's JP Morgan chase again. You mentioned Jamie Diamond,

654
00:36:40,640 --> 00:36:44,000
Speaker 5: arguably the highest profile I guess I'm not gonna say critic,

655
00:36:44,239 --> 00:36:47,160
Speaker 5: maybe a doubter. I don't know. It seems to be

656
00:36:47,239 --> 00:36:48,120
Speaker 5: changing his tone there.

657
00:36:48,880 --> 00:36:54,200
Speaker 10: Oh, there's the you're welcome.

658
00:36:54,640 --> 00:36:58,480
Speaker 3: Oh, Meredith thinks that's funny. In the control room, it

659
00:36:58,520 --> 00:37:00,600
Speaker 3: could just see one out of five awake in the

660
00:37:00,640 --> 00:37:02,479
Speaker 3: control thank you for.

661
00:37:03,920 --> 00:37:06,920
Speaker 10: Cork is always on hand. Okay, I want to pull

662
00:37:06,960 --> 00:37:09,560
Speaker 10: an audible here and I'm going to that independent article

663
00:37:09,560 --> 00:37:13,279
Speaker 10: from earlier about cane sugar coke. Okay, so this is debate, right,

664
00:37:13,360 --> 00:37:15,879
Speaker 10: cane sugar versus corn syrup, because Coke is now saying

665
00:37:15,880 --> 00:37:18,760
Speaker 10: it wants to launch this new coke made with cane.

666
00:37:18,560 --> 00:37:19,520
Speaker 7: Sugar this fall.

667
00:37:20,160 --> 00:37:23,239
Speaker 10: So coke in the US, here's a difference. It's made

668
00:37:23,280 --> 00:37:26,080
Speaker 10: with high fruitoase corn syrup, right, which is made from cornstarch.

669
00:37:26,200 --> 00:37:28,839
Speaker 10: Like I was talking earlier, corn has been cheaper than

670
00:37:28,920 --> 00:37:32,480
Speaker 10: cane sugar. So that was the reason. Cane sugar is

671
00:37:32,520 --> 00:37:36,400
Speaker 10: made from sugar cane, you know, the long long you know, stiffs.

672
00:37:36,440 --> 00:37:37,240
Speaker 1: The bamboo things.

673
00:37:37,360 --> 00:37:40,280
Speaker 10: It's used as a sweetener and coke in most other countries.

674
00:37:40,320 --> 00:37:42,520
Speaker 10: So that's a difference between US and other countries.

675
00:37:42,840 --> 00:37:45,160
Speaker 4: Which one is healthier. That's the debate.

676
00:37:45,320 --> 00:37:47,800
Speaker 10: I mean, experts are saying corn syrup has a little

677
00:37:47,800 --> 00:37:51,440
Speaker 10: bit more fruit tooase than table sugar, but cane sugar

678
00:37:51,640 --> 00:37:54,879
Speaker 10: not necessarily healthier. I mean it's it's not the main

679
00:37:54,920 --> 00:37:57,839
Speaker 10: difference is like a molecular structure. Molecular structure, I'm.

680
00:37:57,719 --> 00:38:03,000
Speaker 5: Not missed that different, but rasby Mexico. Isn't Mexican coke? Differently,

681
00:38:03,040 --> 00:38:04,319
Speaker 5: you go to like a Chipotle and they.

682
00:38:04,200 --> 00:38:06,480
Speaker 10: Have like, well, they have the highproctose corns here. But

683
00:38:06,520 --> 00:38:07,920
Speaker 10: I don't know if it's a recipe.

684
00:38:08,320 --> 00:38:12,200
Speaker 7: Okay, I'm learning, what do I know?

685
00:38:12,320 --> 00:38:15,480
Speaker 10: But the main thing is that added sugar right, soda

686
00:38:15,640 --> 00:38:18,000
Speaker 10: has more than a daily recommended added sugar. If I'm

687
00:38:18,000 --> 00:38:20,280
Speaker 10: looking at a label, I'm always go to the added

688
00:38:20,320 --> 00:38:22,640
Speaker 10: sugars first to see how much extra is in there.

689
00:38:22,920 --> 00:38:23,600
Speaker 7: So they're saying, so.

690
00:38:25,640 --> 00:38:26,360
Speaker 5: I do I do?

691
00:38:26,680 --> 00:38:30,680
Speaker 2: Floritative view of Lisa Matteo. Lisa Mateo in the newspapers,

692
00:38:31,120 --> 00:38:32,160
Speaker 2: Thank you so much.

693
00:38:32,920 --> 00:38:37,719
Speaker 1: This is the Bloomberg Surveillance podcast, available on Apple, Spotify,

694
00:38:37,880 --> 00:38:42,160
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695
00:38:42,320 --> 00:38:45,279
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696
00:38:45,680 --> 00:38:49,439
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697
00:38:49,800 --> 00:38:52,880
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698
00:38:53,200 --> 00:38:55,160
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