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Speaker 1: It's time to get inside the Giants Huttle on Giants

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Speaker 1: dot Com, part of the Giants Podcast Network. Welcome to

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Speaker 1: the news edition of the Giant Shuttle Podcast. John Schmoke

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Speaker 1: with you. We continue our preview of the NFL Draft,

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Speaker 1: which Shawn O'Hara and David Deal. But first a reminder

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Speaker 1: you can find the Giant Subtle Podcast on the Giants

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Speaker 1: Podcast now Work presented by Investors Bank at Giants dot com,

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Speaker 1: Slash Podcast, on the Giants Mobile app, and on your

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Speaker 1: favorite podcast platforms. We're back here preparing for the NFL

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Speaker 1: Draft and my two offensive lineman here giving me some

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Speaker 1: protection up front, David Deal and Shone O'Hara. Super Bowl champions.

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Speaker 1: Last year was one of the best offensive line classes

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Speaker 1: we've seen a long time. This year might be deeper

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Speaker 1: guys with two guys at the top. That's sliding right

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Speaker 1: with that group from last year. So Sean, I'll let

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Speaker 1: you take the honors. First breakdown Rashawn Slater and Penny

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Speaker 1: sol you're top two guys. Which one do you like better?

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Speaker 1: And why are those two guys at the top of

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Speaker 1: this class? For you? Yeah? John, this is always fun

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Speaker 1: when we're talking about the big boys, and you're right,

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Speaker 1: this is a totally different tackle class from last year. Um,

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Speaker 1: the top two guys, like you mentioned Race Shawns later

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Speaker 1: in a school. There's absolutely a drop off after those

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Speaker 1: two guys, And you know, the interesting thing about both

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Speaker 1: of them is they're both really good in in different

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Speaker 1: aspects of their game. I think to start off with

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Speaker 1: Penney Sewell, you know, the one thing that's tough about

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Speaker 1: this kid is, man, he's so young. You know, I

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Speaker 1: don't even think he could buy a beer yet. Um,

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Speaker 1: you know, he's he's still a little bit raw. And

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Speaker 1: yet he didn't play last year. So you know, I

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Speaker 1: think if Penney Sewell had played last year and he

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Speaker 1: got another unit's belt, he would clear cut be on

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Speaker 1: everybody's list as the number one, number one tackle in

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Speaker 1: this year's draft. But he still has some some room

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Speaker 1: for growth. And I think when you look at how

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Speaker 1: big he is and how well he moved at his size, man,

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Speaker 1: those these guys are hard to come by. So you

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Speaker 1: look at the film on him at Oregon, UM, a

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Speaker 1: lot of the film you go back to two years ago.

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Speaker 1: He's playing next to our boys, Shane rom you. So

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Speaker 1: it's kind of fun to watch them working together. They

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Speaker 1: really worked well in combo blocks together. Their technique was

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Speaker 1: very sound. You could tell there they were really well coached.

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Speaker 1: And I like Penny's footwork. Um. I think when you

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Speaker 1: look at him in space, that's where you're you're in

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Speaker 1: awe of how athletic he is and how well he

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Speaker 1: adjusts on the move in space as a blocker, and um,

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Speaker 1: you know that's gonna that's gonna be something that will

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Speaker 1: suit him well at the second level. John, I think

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Speaker 1: the one the big thing for for Penny is he

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Speaker 1: is so strong and so powerful. He got he's gotten

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Speaker 1: away with wide hands and you know, maybe not some

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Speaker 1: not so great technique hand wise at the college level.

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Speaker 1: That's something he's gonna have to correct really quick at

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Speaker 1: this at this next level for racions later. I feel

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Speaker 1: like he is much more polished technique wise. Um, the

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Speaker 1: left tackle for the Northwestern when you look at that

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Speaker 1: some of his game footage, obviously, you know people that

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Speaker 1: talk about him, they immediately go to his game against

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Speaker 1: Ohio State two years ago and when he went one

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Speaker 1: all along with Chase Young and more than held his

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Speaker 1: own him and there was a couple of times where

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Speaker 1: he put chase him down. I thought he just did

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Speaker 1: a really nice job as a tackle of shooting his

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Speaker 1: hands and keeping his face out of the punch. You know,

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Speaker 1: those arms were just locked out. He would even did

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Speaker 1: a really nice job with his inside hand. Um. So

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Speaker 1: I really like him as a pass protector. I think

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Speaker 1: he's the better pass blocking tackle, and I think Penney

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Speaker 1: Sewell is the better run blocking tackle. But but but

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Speaker 1: I really think that Penny can grow into into being

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Speaker 1: that and I think that um that Ray Sean can

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Speaker 1: can improve as a run blocker as well. David, I'll

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Speaker 1: piggy back on top of that. You know, I think

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Speaker 1: with Penny Sewell, as Sean said, one of the exciting

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Speaker 1: things is to see his athleticism to get out on

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Speaker 1: those screens with the wide receivers, his ability on the

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Speaker 1: back side to get to the cut off in the

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Speaker 1: pursuit angle to cut off the back side linebacker of

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Speaker 1: where he's gonna be, not where he's at. But with

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Speaker 1: that said, one of the things that you think of

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Speaker 1: out when you get to this Oregon offense, he didn't

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Speaker 1: have a ton of one on ones with the way

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Speaker 1: that they spread the football out and how quickly the

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Speaker 1: football got out of the quarterback's hands and you look

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Speaker 1: back to the time where he was able to punch

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Speaker 1: and redirect and do those things. It jumps off film

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Speaker 1: with his ability to shock a defensive end, restart and

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Speaker 1: redirect him. But like Sean said, sometimes he's got to

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Speaker 1: worry about using independent hands, being able to punch with

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Speaker 1: one and protect with his outside, making sure he gets

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Speaker 1: perfect hand placement. But his athleticism, his potential and his

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Speaker 1: growth and the fact that he was dominating in the

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Speaker 1: n C Double A level when he was nineteen years

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Speaker 1: old going up against guys older, the sky's the limit

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Speaker 1: for his potential. I think Sean was spot on when

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Speaker 1: you talk about overall just polished products right now, that's

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Speaker 1: where Shawn Slater coming out of Northwestern. I think he

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Speaker 1: has the best feat the most consistent pass sets. And

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Speaker 1: some people talk about his length and his arm length

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Speaker 1: being a disadvantage. You would love for him to have

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Speaker 1: go go gadget arms, but how do you make up

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Speaker 1: for with the timing when you throw your punch where

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Speaker 1: your hand placement is. And he's one of those players

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Speaker 1: that can use independent punching. I think he's more of

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Speaker 1: a zone scheme than he is a powered scheme blocker

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Speaker 1: in the run game. But I do think with the

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Speaker 1: continued work of double teams, the fitting, that the gap

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Speaker 1: movement that he gets with the double teams, with the guards,

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Speaker 1: and getting people off to the point of attack, those

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Speaker 1: are all things that will consistently get better at. But

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Speaker 1: in regards to road greater from moving a man from

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Speaker 1: point A to point B, Sewell is a much better

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Speaker 1: man at doing that. You guys both think Slater as

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Speaker 1: a tackle. I know some people think he's moving into guard.

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Speaker 1: You guys both these later as a long term tackle,

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Speaker 1: even potentially a left tackle. Yeah, I think he's got

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Speaker 1: tackle written all over him. And you know, look, look

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Speaker 1: Day can answer this question better than anybody. You know,

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Speaker 1: it's people will sail. Oh yeah, he he's a tackle

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Speaker 1: on calling. Oh yeah, this slid him in a guard.

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Speaker 1: It's a whole different animal down there. And you know,

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Speaker 1: it's totally different leverage game, you know, attack goal. It's

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Speaker 1: all about space and having those long arms benefit you

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Speaker 1: sometimes when you move inside. You know, having long arms

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Speaker 1: can hurt you. You know, that's why Christine was so good.

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Speaker 1: You don't have to worry about that. I think that

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Speaker 1: a guy with long arms, and you know a high

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Speaker 1: hips guy inside and you know now that need Ben

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Speaker 1: becomes even more paramount. Yeah, and to go off of

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Speaker 1: that as well. Think about playing offensive tackle is like

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Speaker 1: playing defense on basketball. The defensive end is offensive player

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Speaker 1: with the basketball. The quarterback is the hoop of where

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Speaker 1: the defensive player, the offensive player with the basketball wants

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Speaker 1: to go. Where Shaun Slater takes excellent angles and footwork

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Speaker 1: to cut off at the intersection points and to initiate

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Speaker 1: the fight. Just like Sean said, when you're out in tackling,

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Speaker 1: you're out of space. You're not sometimes making contact your

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Speaker 1: third or your fifth kick. When you're inside and an

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Speaker 1: interior guard, it's happening immediately. And that's where some of

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Speaker 1: his lower body strength that he might not have, or

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Speaker 1: the ability to use his athleticism maybe a disadvantage by

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Speaker 1: moving him inside. I see him as a clear cut

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Speaker 1: offensive tackle. All right, Dave, who's in your next group?

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Speaker 1: I think do both you guys agree that those guys

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Speaker 1: are definitely options in the top ten, top eleven for

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Speaker 1: the Giants. Yes, in their own category. Any anybody else

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Speaker 1: comes day for you close to that group? Or do

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Speaker 1: be have a pretty sizeable gap here and then who

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Speaker 1: is in that next group for you in terms of

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Speaker 1: offensive line and you can throw either you know, guards

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Speaker 1: and guards and centers into that group too. If you

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Speaker 1: think they deserve the credit for that, you got it.

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Speaker 1: I think there is a gap when you're starting to

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Speaker 1: go into the Christian Derek Shaws and Tevin Jenkins. I

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Speaker 1: think Derrickshaw, even though he played left tackle in Virginia Tech,

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Speaker 1: he's a right tackle when you look at his size,

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Speaker 1: his ability to work inside out and to maintain and

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Speaker 1: use that big body in that frame, and his aggressive punch.

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Speaker 1: I think he's more of a right tackle than he

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Speaker 1: is a left tackle in the league. He needs to

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Speaker 1: continue to work when he does his pass sets, maintaining

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Speaker 1: an inside number landmark and maintaining inside leverage sometimes to

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Speaker 1: be because he's a bigger guy. He looks to shoot

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Speaker 1: and kick back, and he gives a defensive end to

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Speaker 1: two way go instead of forcing him a one way

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Speaker 1: go to the outside. Tevin Jenkins, I mean, if you're

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Speaker 1: looking for a ballroom, barroom brawler that's gonna come out

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Speaker 1: and play with nasty and that mean streak, He's the guy.

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Speaker 1: He finishes guys too, and through the whistle. He is

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Speaker 1: a guy that it will fight and give you every

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Speaker 1: ounce of what he has. I think he even though

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Speaker 1: some people think he's a guard, he's another one I

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Speaker 1: think is a right tackle. I think that he has

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Speaker 1: the size of the length in order to do it.

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Speaker 1: We know he loves the game of football. He's willing

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Speaker 1: to put in the time for his techniques and fundamentals

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Speaker 1: to really be consistent with it. You know, you always

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Speaker 1: talk about like we were talking, like with Rashawn Slater,

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Speaker 1: when you see that pass set, you want to see, Okay,

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Speaker 1: if they had pain on their feet, would it be

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Speaker 1: the same kicks? Would it be the same angles or

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Speaker 1: is it different based upon the rush are on the outside.

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Speaker 1: That's an area where I think that Tevin Jenkins can improve.

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Speaker 1: But I would love to coach a guy like that

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Speaker 1: because of the potential and the overall makeup of who

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Speaker 1: he is as a player. Sean, how about you. Do

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Speaker 1: you have anybody else in that second group or is

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Speaker 1: it Dara Saw and Jenkins for you? You know, Jenkins

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Speaker 1: and Daris Saw to me, but both too just powerful dudes.

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Speaker 1: I mean, when you watch Darys Saw Christian Darys Saw

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Speaker 1: on film, as a Virginia tech. Um. You know, you

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Speaker 1: could just see he's got a great lower body base.

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Speaker 1: When he gets in a stance he got reminds me

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Speaker 1: of Randy Thomas. Maybe it's the seventy seven on his jersey,

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Speaker 1: but I mean he looks like he's you know what

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Speaker 1: in woods and that just shows like the hip power,

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Speaker 1: the strength of lower body power. Um. And then when

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Speaker 1: he gets his hands on people, yeah, I mean he

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Speaker 1: is throwing dudes out of the club, and you know,

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Speaker 1: I love the power that he brings, you know, from

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Speaker 1: those hips, and he's able to deliver that through his hands,

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Speaker 1: with his shock, with his punch. You know. I think

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Speaker 1: if there's one thing about paras Saw that kind of

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Speaker 1: leaves you wanting more, is I don't feel like he's

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Speaker 1: a great finisher. You know, maybe he needs to go

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Speaker 1: get Mortal Kombat and play a little more of that

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Speaker 1: video game because I would like to see some finishing

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Speaker 1: moves from this guy. And you know, just too many

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Speaker 1: times it's just kind of like like all right, I'm done,

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Speaker 1: and I don't see him. Look, if you're not finishing

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Speaker 1: guys and driving them into the dirt in college, you're

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Speaker 1: not gonna start when you get to the pros. So

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Speaker 1: you know, give me a guy that's doing that in

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Speaker 1: college and you know it has that mentality and hopefully

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Speaker 1: it'll translate into the next level. But you're not gonna

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Speaker 1: just start doing that on Sundays that you've been drafted.

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Speaker 1: So I I would like to see a little bit

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Speaker 1: more from that because I think that if he had

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Speaker 1: that in him and had that mean streak on film,

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Speaker 1: showed people that, look, I'm finishing every single play, I

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Speaker 1: think he might creep into that category a little bit better.

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Speaker 1: Timan Jenkins absolutely powerful dude. Um. You know, I think

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Speaker 1: that there there's definitely room for him to move inside

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Speaker 1: if he wanted. I know, he's a big dude at

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Speaker 1: six five, but I think he could definitely handle that power.

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Speaker 1: I think one interesting guy is you know Liam Eikenberg

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Speaker 1: from Notre Dame. You know, when you look at you

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Speaker 1: got to talk about the fight and I and these guys,

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Speaker 1: I mean they kind of started to become old Line University.

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Speaker 1: You know, McGlinchey came out, it could make Twin Nelson,

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Speaker 1: it was Nick Martin, Ronnie Stanley. I know they were

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Speaker 1: they were coached by by our boy over there. The

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Speaker 1: old line coach um, and I think that, yeah, good,

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Speaker 1: good old Harry, got to give him a shout out.

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Speaker 1: I think that the technique transfers. And when you see

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Speaker 1: that and you know you're getting one of those kind

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Speaker 1: of kids, it's it's an easy selection because you know

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Speaker 1: that they're fundamentally sound. You're not gonna have to tear

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Speaker 1: him down to build them back up. You're not gonna

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Speaker 1: have to coach him on the basics of the game,

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Speaker 1: and they're gonna understand concepts. So from a production standpoint,

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Speaker 1: Eigenberg is, you know, I mean, look, you didn't give

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Speaker 1: up a sack in the last two years. I think

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Speaker 1: the guy has been phenomenal. The fact that he's you know,

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Speaker 1: he's battling every day to to stay at three pounds,

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Speaker 1: you know, I mean, he's he's meeting the strength coach

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Speaker 1: on the scale debut. And I battled with this with

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Speaker 1: Marcus all Arrest his soul you know, for year and

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Speaker 1: a year out about making weight. And that's one thing

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Speaker 1: that when you're out there in space at a tackle position,

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Speaker 1: you know that that that girth means someone. So he

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Speaker 1: they could use an extra year um to kind of

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Speaker 1: get bigger and I think that that will help him

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Speaker 1: get a little stronger too. So for him, it's all

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Speaker 1: about where he goes, not just in the draft, but

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Speaker 1: his scheme wise as well. Yeah, and you do it.

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Speaker 1: As I said Sean Lia Mikenberg, I remember meeting him

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Speaker 1: as a seventeen year old freshman going into Notre Dame.

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Speaker 1: As he said, Harry he Stand coached me at the

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Speaker 1: University of Illinois. And sure enough, Harry he Stand married too.

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Speaker 1: Coach Flat's pet Flaherty's sister. So there's a relationship that

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Speaker 1: I was coached in college and in the pros by

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Speaker 1: brother in Law's one of the things you love. Like

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Speaker 1: you said about Lea Mikeinburg, they ran gat schemes, they

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Speaker 1: ran zone schemes, they worked the perimeter at Notre Dame.

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Speaker 1: He's really honed in on his techniques and fundamentals. He

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Speaker 1: is a proven starter in the NFL. I think he's

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Speaker 1: obvious see more of a right tackle than he is

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Speaker 1: a left tackle. Like they moved Mike mcglinchy to right tackle.

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Speaker 1: He plays inside out, plays with leverage, shows his toughness,

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Speaker 1: fight through the whistle. You know, I think we've all

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Speaker 1: seen the picture where he basically played with one eye

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Speaker 1: after getting poked in the eye and having a huge

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Speaker 1: black eye. This this game means something to him. And

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Speaker 1: when you get that out of an offensive lineman with

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Speaker 1: the background that he has and the experience he has,

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Speaker 1: it's only going to continue to get better and better.

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Speaker 1: But like Sean said, you know, managing his weight and

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Speaker 1: staying up there is something that you're gonna have to

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Speaker 1: do knowing that when you get to this level, every

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Speaker 1: defensive end that you're gonna face, it's gonna be able

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Speaker 1: to convert speed the power and they're gonna try to

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Speaker 1: collapse you into that pocket. One guy you guys haven't mentioned,

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Speaker 1: by the way, Sean, excuse me, is is Elijah vera

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Speaker 1: Tucker who's in usc Some people think he's a first

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Speaker 1: round pick. He played tackle this past year. Before that,

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Speaker 1: he was a guard. Sean, how do you see him?

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Speaker 1: Do you think he sticks out there tackle? Do you

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Speaker 1: see him more as a guard? And will he be

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Speaker 1: a first round picky thing when all of said and

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Speaker 1: done this year? Yeah, I know he played tackle. You

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Speaker 1: know it almost kind of felt like more out of

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Speaker 1: necessity than than out of desire. And you know, ironically, look,

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Speaker 1: I played left tackle in college too, you know, and

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Speaker 1: I knew that there was no way and you know

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Speaker 1: what that that was gonna happen at the next level

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Speaker 1: how to move inside. So I definitely think Vera Tucker

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Speaker 1: is much more suited as a guard. Um could he

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Speaker 1: played tackle in a pinch? Absolutely? That you know is

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Speaker 1: if you want to say, hey, he's gonna have a

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Speaker 1: tenure career, I think it's a guard, no doubt about it.

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Speaker 1: Guy's got he's got a great anchor, he's got a

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Speaker 1: really solid based good footwork. Um, so he would be

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Speaker 1: best suited a guard. The one thing I was just

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Speaker 1: gonna add with Liam Eichelberg was, Um, you know, deal

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Speaker 1: is talking about you know, football's family and the circle

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Speaker 1: of football is very tight. For Liam Eikelberg. Think about this.

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Speaker 1: He went to Saint Ignatious High School in Cleveland, Ohio,

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Speaker 1: goes to Notre Dame or two great programs. The draft

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Speaker 1: is in Cleveland, Ohio. For him to get drafted, you know,

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Speaker 1: with the draft being in the city of Cleveland, what

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Speaker 1: a cool moment that's gonna be for him? And um,

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Speaker 1: you know, I know for him, he'll be excited about

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Speaker 1: wherever he goes. But that was just kind of something

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Speaker 1: cool that popped into my head about for Leon Mikeburg

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Speaker 1: from a personal stampoint, Dave, how about you with with

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Speaker 1: Vera Tucker, because he's a guy much like you've played

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Speaker 1: inside outside. How do you see his game translating, I

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Speaker 1: think that he is a versatile player. Obviously, versatility means

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Speaker 1: an extended career in a long, great career, and I

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Speaker 1: think that that's something that he brings. I see him

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Speaker 1: more as a guard than I do tackle, but as

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Speaker 1: we've seen in my career, that can change at any

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Speaker 1: point in time to where you need to be able

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Speaker 1: to be that guy to be able to move, and

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Speaker 1: especially when you're talking about suiting up your roster game day,

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Speaker 1: having that one player that can do the jack of

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Speaker 1: two things, it helps you when you have other areas

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Speaker 1: of need as you're trying to get prepared for that

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Speaker 1: football game. I think that he plays with inside out

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Speaker 1: powerful lower half. The area where I think that he

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Speaker 1: can truly excel is jump set and he can get

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Speaker 1: on top of people, get those arms and those hands

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Speaker 1: inside quick, and I think that he'll be able to

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Speaker 1: move people at the point of attack. Whether he's worth

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Speaker 1: can ason double teams with the center or work in

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Speaker 1: the power schemes with offense tackle. He has natural leverage

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Speaker 1: and ability to bend and pride to stand up the

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Speaker 1: defensive tackle before the kickout and the kickdown by the

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Speaker 1: offensive tackle. So I see him playing very well in

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Speaker 1: the NFL. But that s John said. I see him

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Speaker 1: more interior. But if he needed to play tackle, obviously

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Speaker 1: he has a versatility and the flexibility to do so.

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Speaker 1: more information. You guys, based on what analysts have said,

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Speaker 1: it seems to me that there are a lot of

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Speaker 1: these combo guys that could go here at the end

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Speaker 1: of the first round, top of the second round. You know,

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Speaker 1: guy like Alex Leatherwood, he played tackle at Alabama, right tackle.

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Speaker 1: Some people think he's a guard. Sam Cosme from Texas,

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Speaker 1: he played tackle in college. Some people think he's going

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Speaker 1: to be a guard. Jalen Mayfield, Michigan tackle in Michigan.

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Speaker 1: People think because of his testing he might have to

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Speaker 1: go in and play guard. Showing from that group, who

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Speaker 1: is it that you really like that you think can

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Speaker 1: play both spots If you're looking for someone with some

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Speaker 1: position versatility that I I can play outside and or inside

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Speaker 1: if you need them if the Giants want to go

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Speaker 1: offensive line there at the top round two. Yeah, you

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Speaker 1: mentioned Jalen Mayfield from Michigan. Um, you know, played tackle,

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Speaker 1: and you know, look I look back at just kind

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Speaker 1: of some of the guys that came through that program.

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Speaker 1: Mason Cole played left tackle for them. You know, I

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Speaker 1: think he started as a true freshman, the first kid

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Speaker 1: to do that in the history the program. And he

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Speaker 1: goes to the NFL, he's moved in the center. So

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Speaker 1: you know, I think for Mayfield absolutely, for him to

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Speaker 1: be able to kick inside and and you know, could

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Speaker 1: he play tackle. I think he's probably better suited as

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Speaker 1: a guard um. So you know, Mayfield could absolutely provide

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Speaker 1: somebody with some great competition at the guard and maybe

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Speaker 1: even swing tackle position later on, like you said, second

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Speaker 1: or third round pick. I think the other guy that

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Speaker 1: that you mentioned is Leatherwood, Alex Leatherwood from Alabama. Man,

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Speaker 1: I'll tell you what, John, this kid can block you

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Speaker 1: from a different county. His arms are so long, and

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Speaker 1: you watch him out in space, and I mean linebackers,

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Speaker 1: you know, they're getting locked out from four yards away.

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Speaker 1: They can't even you know, they can't avoid him because

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Speaker 1: they can't get his hands off him. And he's got

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Speaker 1: lobster mits. You know, when he puts his lobster claws

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Speaker 1: on you, that's it he is. He is locked on.

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Speaker 1: You're not getting away from him. So I really like him,

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Speaker 1: you know, I think one of the things that he's

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Speaker 1: going to have to struggle with is and work on

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Speaker 1: is when you get to the next level, guys are

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Speaker 1: so much better with their hands. They're clearing your hands,

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Speaker 1: they're chopping out. So you can't be lethargic with putting

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Speaker 1: them on people. You can't place them on guys. You

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Speaker 1: gotta punch. So he's gonna have to work on that

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Speaker 1: punch because his arms, he's like a new bowl out there. Um,

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Speaker 1: But I think that length at tackle can be huge.

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Speaker 1: You know, he'll he'll need some time to figure out

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Speaker 1: how to work that if you move them and guard.

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Speaker 1: But you know, even if you're playing off his line

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Speaker 1: of Alabama, you're going up against the best players in

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Speaker 1: the country. I'll take one of those guys any day

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Speaker 1: of the week. I know they're gonna have a lot

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Speaker 1: of fight in them. I know that they are not

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Speaker 1: gonna you know, they're not gonna be gunshy whatsoever. Um.

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Speaker 1: When you look at Leatherwood, Leatherwood, he kind of reminds

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Speaker 1: me of Matt pet from last year and just kind

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Speaker 1: of his body f ram and his his long arms.

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Speaker 1: You know how tall he is. I mean, he moves

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Speaker 1: really well, but Um, you know, how much time does

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Speaker 1: he need to get acclimated. We'll determine, you know, where

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Speaker 1: he goes second or third round. Yeah, And to go

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Speaker 1: along with that, John, I mean, I I think it's

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Speaker 1: not a surprise that we're starting to hear. You know

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Speaker 1: a lot of people talk about these offensive linemen. Maybe

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Speaker 1: they're attackle, maybe they're a guard, maybe they're interior guy.

429
00:20:01,240 --> 00:20:03,520
Speaker 1: Because of where we're at right now with the COVID

430
00:20:03,560 --> 00:20:07,439
Speaker 1: pandemic players sitting out, we already know how difficult it

431
00:20:07,600 --> 00:20:11,080
Speaker 1: is for the techniques and fundamentals from college to transition

432
00:20:11,119 --> 00:20:13,840
Speaker 1: to the pro game. Now we're talking about a lot

433
00:20:13,880 --> 00:20:16,960
Speaker 1: of red shirt sophomores, a lot of red shirt juniors,

434
00:20:17,160 --> 00:20:20,200
Speaker 1: some of them opted out this past season. You truly

435
00:20:20,280 --> 00:20:24,160
Speaker 1: don't see the polished techniques and fundamentals that you need

436
00:20:24,200 --> 00:20:27,360
Speaker 1: to have on a consistent basis in the NFL. When

437
00:20:27,359 --> 00:20:30,080
Speaker 1: you're on the NFL offensive line, you either win your

438
00:20:30,080 --> 00:20:33,119
Speaker 1: battle or you lose your battle. There's no tie. And

439
00:20:33,160 --> 00:20:35,840
Speaker 1: now when you're talking about players coming in and we're

440
00:20:35,840 --> 00:20:38,000
Speaker 1: not knowing what type of off season they're gonna have,

441
00:20:38,400 --> 00:20:40,919
Speaker 1: it's much easier to start a player on the interior

442
00:20:41,200 --> 00:20:43,160
Speaker 1: and work them out than to work on the outside

443
00:20:43,280 --> 00:20:45,400
Speaker 1: and move them in. And Dave, I think to your

444
00:20:45,480 --> 00:20:47,800
Speaker 1: point to guys that there are a lot of questions

445
00:20:47,800 --> 00:20:50,960
Speaker 1: about Dylan Ravens at a North Dakota State. He they

446
00:20:50,960 --> 00:20:53,560
Speaker 1: did not have a season. Not his fault in an

447
00:20:53,600 --> 00:20:56,480
Speaker 1: FCS program, right. And then you have Walker Little out

448
00:20:56,480 --> 00:21:00,159
Speaker 1: of Stanford who tours a c L back in ten

449
00:21:00,520 --> 00:21:02,520
Speaker 1: didn't really play. I think he played in one game,

450
00:21:02,760 --> 00:21:05,520
Speaker 1: and then last year he opted out. He was I

451
00:21:05,560 --> 00:21:07,680
Speaker 1: think a five star or crew was supposed to be

452
00:21:07,680 --> 00:21:09,600
Speaker 1: one of the best tackles in the country. Then you

453
00:21:09,800 --> 00:21:12,119
Speaker 1: rate into when he did play even he's playing against

454
00:21:12,119 --> 00:21:15,960
Speaker 1: these smaller schools, and I think Ellerson Smith was probably

455
00:21:16,000 --> 00:21:18,879
Speaker 1: the best pass rusher he played against the North Dakota State.

456
00:21:19,320 --> 00:21:21,719
Speaker 1: So when you think about those two guys, how do

457
00:21:21,760 --> 00:21:24,160
Speaker 1: you go about even evaluating them if you're thinking about

458
00:21:24,200 --> 00:21:27,280
Speaker 1: making them a Day two which is a very valuable selection.

459
00:21:27,800 --> 00:21:29,280
Speaker 1: I think that was one of the good things that

460
00:21:29,320 --> 00:21:31,640
Speaker 1: they got the experience of working at the Senior Bowl

461
00:21:31,680 --> 00:21:34,199
Speaker 1: and being able to show that without a season, to

462
00:21:34,280 --> 00:21:36,199
Speaker 1: show that they have to make up to be an

463
00:21:36,240 --> 00:21:38,440
Speaker 1: offensive lineman. You know a lot of people say, well

464
00:21:38,480 --> 00:21:41,480
Speaker 1: the competition, well it worked out for Alan Marpett for

465
00:21:41,520 --> 00:21:44,000
Speaker 1: the Tampa Bay Buccaneers. Didn't it he was a player,

466
00:21:44,119 --> 00:21:48,040
Speaker 1: same thing Hulbart D two school finally got an opportunity.

467
00:21:48,040 --> 00:21:50,720
Speaker 1: And when you're talking about working with the leverage that

468
00:21:50,800 --> 00:21:53,160
Speaker 1: he has and working on the interior of an offensive line,

469
00:21:53,760 --> 00:21:55,800
Speaker 1: as long as you have the techniques and fundamentals to

470
00:21:56,000 --> 00:21:58,960
Speaker 1: strengthen the will and the ability to do it, that

471
00:21:59,119 --> 00:22:02,120
Speaker 1: will overcome things for a lot of offensive lineman, especially

472
00:22:02,160 --> 00:22:05,680
Speaker 1: for interior guards. And I think that's where offensive line

473
00:22:05,760 --> 00:22:08,760
Speaker 1: coaches in the NFL get excited because they see a

474
00:22:08,760 --> 00:22:11,840
Speaker 1: product that has come out of a smaller school that

475
00:22:11,960 --> 00:22:15,080
Speaker 1: you see can transition to the NFL. And now let's

476
00:22:15,119 --> 00:22:17,960
Speaker 1: specifically hone in on those things, on the individual drills,

477
00:22:18,200 --> 00:22:22,400
Speaker 1: and that's where you get those diamonds in the rough. Yeah,

478
00:22:22,480 --> 00:22:24,800
Speaker 1: for Dylan Ratings to to be able to play in

479
00:22:24,800 --> 00:22:28,040
Speaker 1: that Bowl game, and and and and be around those coaches,

480
00:22:28,080 --> 00:22:31,040
Speaker 1: let let them see, you know, not just physically what

481
00:22:31,160 --> 00:22:32,840
Speaker 1: I bring to the table. Look, I mean they measure

482
00:22:32,840 --> 00:22:36,040
Speaker 1: his arms thirty four thirty four inch arms. I'm one

483
00:22:36,080 --> 00:22:38,760
Speaker 1: of the longest in this class. Um. You know that

484
00:22:38,840 --> 00:22:41,320
Speaker 1: you get the physical attributes of it, but being around

485
00:22:41,359 --> 00:22:43,240
Speaker 1: the coaches and letting them see what kind of worker

486
00:22:43,280 --> 00:22:45,200
Speaker 1: you are, what kind of mindset you are, what kind

487
00:22:45,200 --> 00:22:47,800
Speaker 1: of team player you are? How do you handle yourself

488
00:22:47,840 --> 00:22:49,560
Speaker 1: in and out of drills? How do you handle yourself

489
00:22:49,800 --> 00:22:52,760
Speaker 1: in and out of meetings? Um that that is invaluable

490
00:22:52,960 --> 00:22:55,840
Speaker 1: and sometimes you know that that could be even more

491
00:22:55,840 --> 00:22:59,159
Speaker 1: precious than the game film from the previous season, you know, Shelan,

492
00:22:59,200 --> 00:23:00,760
Speaker 1: the Giants might want to is a Day two pick

493
00:23:00,800 --> 00:23:04,920
Speaker 1: here to reinforce their interior offensive line. Kevin Zeisler is

494
00:23:04,960 --> 00:23:07,640
Speaker 1: no longer with the team, Shane Lemus second year, Will

495
00:23:07,640 --> 00:23:11,639
Speaker 1: Hernandez fourth year, but not a ton of experience between

496
00:23:11,640 --> 00:23:13,320
Speaker 1: those guys, and I want to try to reinforce that

497
00:23:13,359 --> 00:23:15,359
Speaker 1: a little bit. They did bring a couple of veterans

498
00:23:15,400 --> 00:23:18,240
Speaker 1: in the off season that can servatives backstops for those guys.

499
00:23:18,520 --> 00:23:22,000
Speaker 1: Who might you like that plays guard center, both in

500
00:23:22,040 --> 00:23:24,359
Speaker 1: that second third round area that stick out to you

501
00:23:24,359 --> 00:23:27,240
Speaker 1: on tip. Yeah, that's a great question, John, and I

502
00:23:27,280 --> 00:23:30,119
Speaker 1: think you know, Look, if you're trying to grow this

503
00:23:30,200 --> 00:23:33,320
Speaker 1: offense and grow this offen the line, you need some competition.

504
00:23:33,359 --> 00:23:35,160
Speaker 1: You need some guys to push each other. I thought,

505
00:23:35,160 --> 00:23:37,040
Speaker 1: Shane lem you did a nice job Philip coming in

506
00:23:37,119 --> 00:23:40,760
Speaker 1: last year and and solidifying the group. Will Hernandez. I'm

507
00:23:40,760 --> 00:23:43,160
Speaker 1: looking forward to seeing how he responds and and and

508
00:23:43,280 --> 00:23:44,639
Speaker 1: you know he's going to get a shot at the

509
00:23:44,680 --> 00:23:47,280
Speaker 1: right car. But you bring in some competition there, there

510
00:23:47,280 --> 00:23:49,280
Speaker 1: are some guys that can come in and push. I

511
00:23:49,280 --> 00:23:52,760
Speaker 1: think when you look at why At Davis from Ohio State, Look,

512
00:23:52,760 --> 00:23:54,919
Speaker 1: he's a powerful dude, and he's got a lot of power,

513
00:23:55,400 --> 00:23:58,720
Speaker 1: you know, in the run game, I think he's got

514
00:23:58,800 --> 00:24:01,200
Speaker 1: some things. He's got a polish up in the passing game.

515
00:24:01,240 --> 00:24:03,719
Speaker 1: You know, he gets a little bit top heavy and

516
00:24:03,720 --> 00:24:06,240
Speaker 1: and can get on his toes a little bit. But

517
00:24:06,280 --> 00:24:08,479
Speaker 1: he's a guy that can come in and compete. You

518
00:24:08,520 --> 00:24:11,560
Speaker 1: mentioned guards center combos, and you know, I look, I

519
00:24:11,560 --> 00:24:14,399
Speaker 1: think Nick Gates has done a really nice job moving

520
00:24:14,440 --> 00:24:17,359
Speaker 1: into center. Last year was his first year playing center.

521
00:24:17,440 --> 00:24:21,199
Speaker 1: But I think I love this Atlanta Dickerson, you know,

522
00:24:21,480 --> 00:24:24,240
Speaker 1: out of Alabama, and he reminds me a lot of

523
00:24:24,520 --> 00:24:27,640
Speaker 1: one of our favorite teammates, deal Richie Sober. He wore

524
00:24:27,720 --> 00:24:30,600
Speaker 1: number sixty nine in college. Um, you know, he actually

525
00:24:30,640 --> 00:24:33,199
Speaker 1: went to Florida State and then he transferred through the

526
00:24:33,240 --> 00:24:36,879
Speaker 1: portal after he graduated from Florida State, and you know,

527
00:24:37,119 --> 00:24:40,359
Speaker 1: the kid tears his a c L and the SEC

528
00:24:40,600 --> 00:24:43,600
Speaker 1: game this past season, so they go to the National

529
00:24:43,640 --> 00:24:46,359
Speaker 1: Championship game and he can't play. He had surgery on

530
00:24:46,440 --> 00:24:49,720
Speaker 1: his a c L. But the kids suits up, goes

531
00:24:49,720 --> 00:24:51,840
Speaker 1: out and warms up with the team, doesn't do any

532
00:24:51,840 --> 00:24:53,320
Speaker 1: of the drill, stands off to the solid when they

533
00:24:53,320 --> 00:24:54,840
Speaker 1: start doing stuff, and at the end of the game

534
00:24:55,359 --> 00:24:57,720
Speaker 1: they go victory formation and he goes up to Nick Saban.

535
00:24:57,720 --> 00:25:00,040
Speaker 1: He says, coach cannot go in for one fine a

536
00:25:00,160 --> 00:25:01,920
Speaker 1: play and they let him go in and take the knee,

537
00:25:02,600 --> 00:25:04,919
Speaker 1: and coach was all about it. The team was all

538
00:25:04,960 --> 00:25:08,240
Speaker 1: about it. They're hugging this kid after the play. It's

539
00:25:08,240 --> 00:25:11,920
Speaker 1: guys like that that really bring units together, bring all

540
00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:15,439
Speaker 1: lines together, teams together. Um. And you know, looked at

541
00:25:15,520 --> 00:25:17,080
Speaker 1: some great video if you guys had a chance to

542
00:25:17,119 --> 00:25:20,200
Speaker 1: see it. Mac Jones, who's rising up everybody's draft board

543
00:25:20,440 --> 00:25:23,320
Speaker 1: at his workout Landon Dickerson wasn't able to do a

544
00:25:23,359 --> 00:25:25,600
Speaker 1: lot of drills, and you know, medically they would clear

545
00:25:25,640 --> 00:25:27,840
Speaker 1: reduced stuff, but he found a way to make an impact.

546
00:25:28,119 --> 00:25:31,320
Speaker 1: In the background of Mac jones interview, he's doing cartwheels

547
00:25:31,680 --> 00:25:34,360
Speaker 1: after that deal totally something that we would have done.

548
00:25:36,320 --> 00:25:38,520
Speaker 1: You know, you just love that aspect of it. So

549
00:25:38,600 --> 00:25:41,439
Speaker 1: Landon Dickerson he could play guard. He started out as

550
00:25:41,480 --> 00:25:43,200
Speaker 1: a guard early on in his career, and then I'm

551
00:25:43,200 --> 00:25:47,160
Speaker 1: moving to the center. He's really thick, really still medically,

552
00:25:47,520 --> 00:25:49,520
Speaker 1: he's I mean, it's gonna take you three days to

553
00:25:49,520 --> 00:25:51,640
Speaker 1: get through all of his m r s the next race,

554
00:25:51,840 --> 00:25:54,440
Speaker 1: because he had a lot of injuries throughout his college career.

555
00:25:54,480 --> 00:25:57,240
Speaker 1: But he's a stud that that I think will bounce

556
00:25:57,320 --> 00:26:00,359
Speaker 1: back from this injury and he could certainly provide a

557
00:26:00,359 --> 00:26:02,840
Speaker 1: lot of great competitions, some debt and serve me a

558
00:26:02,840 --> 00:26:06,119
Speaker 1: lot of laughs. And my last one would be Aaron Banks,

559
00:26:06,160 --> 00:26:08,960
Speaker 1: another guard out of Notre Dame. This is a player,

560
00:26:09,000 --> 00:26:11,159
Speaker 1: as I said, that I've met early. You want to

561
00:26:11,160 --> 00:26:14,119
Speaker 1: talk about a mature player. He is actually the legal

562
00:26:14,119 --> 00:26:17,000
Speaker 1: guardian of his younger brother and is basically the one

563
00:26:17,080 --> 00:26:19,639
Speaker 1: running the household and lives with his uncle. So it

564
00:26:19,720 --> 00:26:22,639
Speaker 1: says a lot about his character and his makeup and

565
00:26:22,680 --> 00:26:24,479
Speaker 1: who he is as a man and how important this

566
00:26:24,560 --> 00:26:26,879
Speaker 1: is to him. Once again, this is another player that

567
00:26:26,880 --> 00:26:30,000
Speaker 1: I met seventeen years old, that Harry he stand recruited

568
00:26:30,040 --> 00:26:34,200
Speaker 1: to the University of Notre Dame six five. You want

569
00:26:34,200 --> 00:26:36,280
Speaker 1: to talk about moving somebody at the point of attack,

570
00:26:36,600 --> 00:26:39,120
Speaker 1: he is the guy that can do that. Definitely needs

571
00:26:39,119 --> 00:26:41,199
Speaker 1: to hone in on his techniques and fundamentals in the

572
00:26:41,240 --> 00:26:44,080
Speaker 1: passing game. Can do a much better job with leverage,

573
00:26:44,320 --> 00:26:46,679
Speaker 1: shooting his hands, and making sure that he's not as

574
00:26:46,720 --> 00:26:49,800
Speaker 1: aggressive jump setting, and gives himself some separations so he

575
00:26:49,840 --> 00:26:52,399
Speaker 1: doesn't get split on the outside or give up that

576
00:26:52,480 --> 00:26:55,680
Speaker 1: outside shoulder so he can't press with his outside arm.

577
00:26:55,760 --> 00:26:58,199
Speaker 1: But Aaron Bence is another one of those players that

578
00:26:58,560 --> 00:27:00,119
Speaker 1: if you put him in a phone, both the is

579
00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:02,600
Speaker 1: gonna fight, scratch and claw and he's gonna play through

580
00:27:02,600 --> 00:27:04,600
Speaker 1: the whistle. And those are the things that you love

581
00:27:04,640 --> 00:27:07,080
Speaker 1: that are exciting about some of these prospects. Alright, guys,

582
00:27:07,080 --> 00:27:09,280
Speaker 1: final question, I'll give you both sixty seconds here. We

583
00:27:09,359 --> 00:27:12,680
Speaker 1: got about two minutes to go. How essential do both

584
00:27:12,720 --> 00:27:14,960
Speaker 1: of you think? And David, I'll let you go first

585
00:27:14,960 --> 00:27:17,760
Speaker 1: this time to Sean let us off today it is

586
00:27:17,800 --> 00:27:20,880
Speaker 1: for the Giants to add an offensive lineman within the

587
00:27:20,880 --> 00:27:24,000
Speaker 1: first three rounds here that can step in and either

588
00:27:24,080 --> 00:27:27,080
Speaker 1: start or at least compete for a starting spot. Whether

589
00:27:27,119 --> 00:27:29,520
Speaker 1: it's a guard or tackle, or wherever you think it's

590
00:27:29,600 --> 00:27:33,040
Speaker 1: most important. I definitely think it's important. I wouldn't go

591
00:27:33,080 --> 00:27:35,680
Speaker 1: first or second round, but I would definitely look in

592
00:27:35,720 --> 00:27:38,080
Speaker 1: the third round to see if there's an opportunity to

593
00:27:38,160 --> 00:27:40,880
Speaker 1: somebody to go and grab that. As Sean said, this

594
00:27:40,920 --> 00:27:43,119
Speaker 1: is an area where we know that this has gotta

595
00:27:43,160 --> 00:27:46,080
Speaker 1: be competition. We understand how important it is in this

596
00:27:46,200 --> 00:27:50,320
Speaker 1: offense to protect the interior of the pocket. The tackles

597
00:27:50,359 --> 00:27:53,600
Speaker 1: provided with the interior center and guards provide to death.

598
00:27:53,920 --> 00:27:56,400
Speaker 1: If you want to protect Daniel Jones in this offense

599
00:27:56,600 --> 00:27:58,960
Speaker 1: and continue to make this the best group it can be,

600
00:27:59,320 --> 00:28:02,160
Speaker 1: it's all up competition. So for me, I would definitely,

601
00:28:02,400 --> 00:28:04,240
Speaker 1: if I was the New York Giants, look in the

602
00:28:04,280 --> 00:28:07,879
Speaker 1: third round to draft a guard, slash versatile player that

603
00:28:07,920 --> 00:28:12,200
Speaker 1: can play on the outside if need be. Yeah, it's

604
00:28:12,280 --> 00:28:15,000
Speaker 1: you know, really this goes year to year, draft to draft.

605
00:28:15,080 --> 00:28:18,920
Speaker 1: You know, you're looking at the third round and you say,

606
00:28:18,960 --> 00:28:20,680
Speaker 1: what is the run been in the second and third

607
00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:23,159
Speaker 1: round there's a run on corners and wide receivers and

608
00:28:23,200 --> 00:28:25,160
Speaker 1: you need to grab one rose you know, the alignment

609
00:28:25,200 --> 00:28:26,800
Speaker 1: kind of get kicked down to the fourth round. So

610
00:28:27,240 --> 00:28:29,320
Speaker 1: I don't think it's necessary for the Giants to to

611
00:28:29,480 --> 00:28:31,960
Speaker 1: draft an office alignment in these first three rounds to

612
00:28:32,119 --> 00:28:35,639
Speaker 1: create that competition. This draft is pretty darn deep, and

613
00:28:35,800 --> 00:28:38,160
Speaker 1: you can still get some quality guys in the fourth

614
00:28:38,200 --> 00:28:41,000
Speaker 1: even fifth round. Look, it was a fifth round er.

615
00:28:41,040 --> 00:28:43,040
Speaker 1: I was a free agent. Um, you know. I think

616
00:28:43,080 --> 00:28:46,000
Speaker 1: Dave Gentleman has done a really good job and he's

617
00:28:46,040 --> 00:28:49,600
Speaker 1: got a proven track record at finding some guys that

618
00:28:49,760 --> 00:28:51,680
Speaker 1: you know, maybe we're left off of draft boards, maybe

619
00:28:51,680 --> 00:28:54,600
Speaker 1: some guys that you know are are under the radar,

620
00:28:55,000 --> 00:28:56,800
Speaker 1: and finding a way to bring them into the system.

621
00:28:56,920 --> 00:29:00,520
Speaker 1: So I think if if there is a guy that

622
00:29:01,040 --> 00:29:03,520
Speaker 1: you have as a second round grade and he's there

623
00:29:03,560 --> 00:29:07,720
Speaker 1: in the third round, absolutely take him. Because as we've

624
00:29:07,760 --> 00:29:09,480
Speaker 1: all seen, you look at the NFC East and what

625
00:29:09,560 --> 00:29:12,000
Speaker 1: this division went through from an offensive line standpoint last year,

626
00:29:12,040 --> 00:29:15,560
Speaker 1: it was an absolute train wreck. Every every organization, every

627
00:29:15,600 --> 00:29:20,160
Speaker 1: team was battling with their aligned depth, and you need

628
00:29:20,680 --> 00:29:24,040
Speaker 1: seven guys that can step into play. So absolutely that

629
00:29:24,040 --> 00:29:26,280
Speaker 1: that competition will help not just the starting five, but

630
00:29:26,320 --> 00:29:28,360
Speaker 1: it will help you roll depth. It is a position

631
00:29:28,400 --> 00:29:31,720
Speaker 1: group you never stop reinforcing year after year because you

632
00:29:31,760 --> 00:29:33,240
Speaker 1: never know when you're gonna need that next guy to

633
00:29:33,240 --> 00:29:36,200
Speaker 1: step into play. Gentlemen, it's always fun talking online with you.

634
00:29:36,240 --> 00:29:38,080
Speaker 1: Really appreciate it. Can't wait to see what the Giants

635
00:29:38,120 --> 00:29:40,760
Speaker 1: do in the draft. That's another preview heading into the

636
00:29:40,840 --> 00:29:44,280
Speaker 1: draft which is coming up next week. For David Deal

637
00:29:44,360 --> 00:29:46,400
Speaker 1: and show Ohara, I am John Schmilk. As a reminder,

638
00:29:46,440 --> 00:29:48,600
Speaker 1: the John's Little Podcast as part of the Giants Podcast

639
00:29:48,600 --> 00:29:50,920
Speaker 1: Now we're presented by Investors Bank. You can find the

640
00:29:51,040 --> 00:29:53,320
Speaker 1: archive of this show on all of our shows at

641
00:29:53,320 --> 00:29:55,840
Speaker 1: Giants dot com, slash Podcast, in the Giants, mallblapp, and

642
00:29:55,880 --> 00:29:59,200
Speaker 1: all your favorite podcast platforms including Big Blue kick Off Live,

643
00:29:59,280 --> 00:30:01,920
Speaker 1: our daily show every weekday at noon where we've been

644
00:30:01,920 --> 00:30:05,480
Speaker 1: talking draft and the NFL and Giants for almost ten years. Now.

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Speaker 1: For the guys, I'm Schmlk. We'll see you next time

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Speaker 1: on the Giants Hunnel