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Speaker 1: Hey, guys, ready or not, twenty twenty four is here,

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Speaker 1: and we here at breaking points, are already thinking of

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Speaker 1: ways we can up our game for this critical election.

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Speaker 2: We rely on our premium subs to expand coverage, upgrade

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Speaker 2: the studio ad staff give you, guys, the best independent.

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Speaker 3: Coverage that is possible.

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Speaker 2: If you like what we're all about, it just means

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Speaker 2: the absolute world to have your support. But enough with that,

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Speaker 2: let's get to the show. Let's go ahead and get

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Speaker 2: to the major news here in Washington. The border bill

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Speaker 2: arrived and seemingly died upon arrival. It was negotiated by

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Speaker 2: Senator James Langford, Senator Kirsten Cinema, and some Senator Chris

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Speaker 2: Murphy as well from the Democratic side.

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Speaker 3: Christin Cinema, I guests from the independent side.

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Speaker 2: Shall we call it that Crystal, And then we have

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Speaker 2: Senator lolled outside.

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Speaker 3: Langford being from the state of Oklahoma.

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Speaker 2: So Senator Langford appeared on Fox and Friends yesterday morning

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Speaker 2: to make his case for the bill and to rebut

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Speaker 2: some of his GOP colleagues who preemptively were rejecting some

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Speaker 2: of the details.

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Speaker 3: Here's what he had to say.

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Speaker 4: He said, no self respecting center, he should agree to

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Speaker 4: vote on a three hundred and seventy page bill this week.

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Speaker 4: Any forty one centers can prevent the bill from proceeding

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Speaker 4: if you agree that centers should have this bill for

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Speaker 4: at least a few weeks and certainly more than a

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Speaker 4: few days before voting on it. Say so, you understand

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Speaker 4: where he's coming from, right, don't you guys have a

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Speaker 4: procedural vote this week. You're going to vote on the bill.

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Speaker 5: By the end of the week, so we actually have

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Speaker 5: this bill came out yesterday Sunday. The first procedural vote

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Speaker 5: is Wednesday, and that procedural vote is literally just open

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Speaker 5: it up to be able to go through it and

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Speaker 5: to be able to say, are we going to debate

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Speaker 5: it this week? That's what Senator Ali is actually talking about.

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Speaker 5: It's interesting that he said he's already opposed to it.

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Speaker 5: He needs three weeks to be able to read it,

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Speaker 5: but he's already opposed to it. So again, people have

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Speaker 5: got to be able to read it, go through it themselves.

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Speaker 5: Don't just go off a Facebook post somewhere what the

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Speaker 5: bill says. This dramatically changes asylum and dramatically changes deportations.

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Speaker 5: We no longer have a ten year backlog, it builds

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Speaker 5: more wall. Those are the key things that it actually does.

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Speaker 5: But read it for yourselves. Don't just believe what's online.

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Speaker 3: Read it for yourselves.

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Speaker 2: And many Republicans did and still have ended up rejecting it.

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Speaker 3: We will get to that.

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Speaker 2: But there's actually a good summary of this deal from

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Speaker 2: Bill Miluugan. Some of you guys may be familiar with him.

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Speaker 2: He's the Fox News reporter who covers the border. He's

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Speaker 2: very critical of the immigration situation out of Biden. So

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Speaker 2: I think you know his overall summary. I think it

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Speaker 2: could take from the most skeptical point of view. We

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Speaker 2: can go ahead and put this up there on the

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Speaker 2: screen and I'll read from some of it. So he says,

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Speaker 2: quote new my initial highlights from the border deal. There's

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Speaker 2: no amnesty and legalization of anyone already who is in

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Speaker 2: the US illegally. It funds an increase for ice detention

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Speaker 2: capacity from fifty thousand from the current thirty four thousand.

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Speaker 2: There's a seven day This is the most controversial part,

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Speaker 2: so please pay attention to this. At a seven day

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Speaker 2: rolling average of five thousand encounters per day, or eighty

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Speaker 2: five hundred encounters in a single day.

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Speaker 3: The Department of Homeland.

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Speaker 2: Security quote would be required to shut the border down

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Speaker 2: and turn away anyone who crosses. No new asylum claims

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Speaker 2: would be allowed. Anyone crossing would be removed. It would

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Speaker 2: end the idea of quote I made it to US soil,

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Speaker 2: and you have to process me. That would be over

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Speaker 2: border patrol would not process an I legal crosser and

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Speaker 2: they would be removed. No asylum claim permitted unless it

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Speaker 2: was made at a port of entry. Pay attention to that,

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Speaker 2: because it's important. They can go on and they say

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Speaker 2: this does not mean the quote full quote, five thousand

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Speaker 2: are allowed in before the authority kicks in. Single adults

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Speaker 2: would be detained. Families would be released via alternative to detention.

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Speaker 2: Asylum cases would be fast tracked two months rather than

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Speaker 2: years under a new rapid expandage system.

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Speaker 3: Those who fail would be quickly remote from the US.

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Speaker 2: The initial pass would be reviewed from work authorization claims

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Speaker 2: in ninety days supervision until file US up final asylum

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Speaker 2: claim is determined. Shutdown authority doesn't drop until the crossings

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Speaker 2: decrease significantly in the days following that significantly. There are

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Speaker 2: tougher asylum requirements and a highly credible fear standard, including

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Speaker 2: the three bars to eligibility, criminal history.

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Speaker 3: Could they have resettled in.

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Speaker 2: Another country under the way to the US called a

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Speaker 2: safe third country and quote, could they have resettled somewhere

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Speaker 2: else in their own country? Just say that you're schedule

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Speaker 2: return home no longer is enough to be required in

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Speaker 2: the initial interview. It appears that that legislation would then

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Speaker 2: move asylum claim decisions away from immigration judges and have

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Speaker 2: them be handled by USCIS, which is the US immigration system. Next,

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Speaker 2: they talk here about some of the increases to FEMA

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Speaker 2: humanitarian aid, increase in the number of new visas they

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Speaker 2: will be granted over the last five years to fifty

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Speaker 2: thousand funding.

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Speaker 3: And this is another important part.

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Speaker 2: I want to pay attention to funding to hire hundreds

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Speaker 2: more iced deportation officers, border patrol agents and USCIS asylum officers.

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Speaker 2: It says no unaccompanied minor could be removed, and some

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Speaker 2: of these miners would receive attorneys pro bono and are

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Speaker 2: taxpayer funded. Dhs would take ninety days to have this

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Speaker 2: new system before it goes into place. And the context

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Speaker 2: that he adds at the end is that the border

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Speaker 2: has seen at least five thousand counters almost every single

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Speaker 2: day of the last couple of years under Biden. So

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Speaker 2: if the bill were signed into law, the border would

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Speaker 2: likely be shut down on the first day that it

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Speaker 2: takes effect. So crystal with all of that, and with

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Speaker 2: that skeptical summary, I think here by the Fox News

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Speaker 2: it does seem to still mean that almost all Republicans

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Speaker 2: have rejected it out of hand. The House of Representatives

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Speaker 2: say it's a non starter and that it's not going

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Speaker 2: to happen.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I think it's pretty clear there. This

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Speaker 1: is a bill that is very, you know, pretty far

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Speaker 1: in the restrictionist direction. It is not something that Democrats

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Speaker 1: ever would have agreed to under Donald Trump or would

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Speaker 1: agree to next time under Donald Trump. Historically, any sort

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Speaker 1: of increased enforcement mechanisms have been tied in a quote

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Speaker 1: unquote conferhensive immigration bill with some sort of path to legalization.

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Speaker 1: There is absolutely none of that there. There's a real

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Speaker 1: So I do want to say there are pieces of

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Speaker 1: this bill that I would actually support, including as we've discussed.

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Speaker 1: I mean, one of the biggest problems is you have

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Speaker 1: this massive asylum case backlog, millions of cases, so it

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Speaker 1: takes years for these cases to be adjudicated. You know,

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Speaker 1: there are provisions in here that would help to expedite

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Speaker 1: that and also would flood the zone with resources to

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Speaker 1: help get rid of that backlog. I think that part

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Speaker 1: is important. But there's also a sort of direct attack

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Speaker 1: on asylum itself, making it much more difficult to claim asylum.

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Speaker 1: It's already extremely difficult to be granted asylum. The bar

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Speaker 1: is already extremely high. And then there's also, as we

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Speaker 1: discussed before, this quote unquote shut down the border, which

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Speaker 1: is a little bit misleading. How this is labeled, I

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Speaker 1: could not, but basically the idea is once you get

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Speaker 1: to over five thousand on average on a daily basis,

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Speaker 1: and there are some provisions in there, like the president

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Speaker 1: could change that authority, which is the other piece, is

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Speaker 1: like you were giving the president, whether it's Biden or Trump,

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Speaker 1: massive new powers under this bill. But the idea is

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Speaker 1: once you get to that five thousand, you basically sort

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Speaker 1: of like end due process and say screw it to

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Speaker 1: asylum whatsoever. So let me just talk about the politics,

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Speaker 1: because in some ways what's in the bill isn't all

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Speaker 1: that important, given that it does have a chance in

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Speaker 1: hell of passing. You know, the politics here are that

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Speaker 1: Trump basically came out and said, I don't want you

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Speaker 1: guys to support this bill, and the Republican Party was like, okay,

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Speaker 1: we won't. And so someone like James Langford, who you know,

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Speaker 1: took at face value the idea that the Republicans actually

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Speaker 1: wanted a deal that combined border funding with Ukraine funding

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Speaker 1: with Israel funding, which was what Republicans were pushing for

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Speaker 1: at the beginning of this process. Someone like him, who

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Speaker 1: you know, really tried to negotiate in good faith and

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Speaker 1: really tried to give Republicans the restrictionist ideas that he

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Speaker 1: wanted under the context of a democratic administration. He's left

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Speaker 1: holding the bag like, hey, guys, I thought this is

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Speaker 1: what y'all wanted, But you know, the politics at the

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Speaker 1: end of the day rules the day. One more thing

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Speaker 1: on the politics, because I think this is important. There

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Speaker 1: is a lot of democratic glee about oh Biden is

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Speaker 1: so clever, like look at how he called their bluff

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Speaker 1: and now he's flipped the script on immigration, and now

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Speaker 1: Republicans are, you know, look bad on this, and it's

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Speaker 1: they're exposed. It's not really wanting to be serious about this. Problem.

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Speaker 1: I don't buy that analysis at all.

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Speaker 3: I totally agree.

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Speaker 1: I do not buy that analysis at all. Number One,

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Speaker 1: the border, whatever's happening there is still happening on your watch.

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Speaker 1: And you know, whatever I think of it, there are

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Speaker 1: many Americans who find the chaos and I think that's

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Speaker 1: fair that who want to see an orderly border process

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Speaker 1: and that does not exist right now. That is still

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Speaker 1: going to be the case. It is still going to

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Speaker 1: be under a Biden administration, and so that's a problem.

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Speaker 1: Number Two. You know, in the last election, Biden versus Trump,

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Speaker 1: we had that. Prior to that election, we had the

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Speaker 1: whole child separation policy, which Americans were genuinely horrified by.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it was terrible, these kids who were orphaned

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Speaker 1: by the United States government. You know, the audio that

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Speaker 1: was leaked of the border patrol agents mocking them, and

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Speaker 1: all of that was horrifye and Biden, in part to

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Speaker 1: win a Democratic primary, he really positioned himself as being

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Speaker 1: much more compassionate of having this inclusive message about immigration,

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Speaker 1: saying he would be a clean break from Donald Trump,

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Speaker 1: and that ended up being a winning message. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I'm not going to say that was like the number

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Speaker 1: one reason why he got elected. But that was part

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Speaker 1: of the appeal is it would be a break from

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Speaker 1: the cruelty and the chaos of a Donald Trump administration.

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Speaker 1: What Biden the Democrats have effectively done here is just

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Speaker 1: embraced all of the Republican arguments on immig just completely

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Speaker 1: caved and effectively said, like, you're right about immigration and

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Speaker 1: your model is the right model. And guess what, if

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Speaker 1: you want a border hawk, you are not going to

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Speaker 1: defeat Donald Trump totally on those grounds, Like why would

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Speaker 1: you compete on who can be the biggest asshole at

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Speaker 1: the border? You are not going to win that competition.

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Speaker 1: So one of the basics of politics is to try

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Speaker 1: to fight the fight that you want to fight on

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Speaker 1: the grounds that you want to engage where your strengths are. No,

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Speaker 1: don't go to the place where he's the strongest. Where

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Speaker 1: if it's a competition of like who's going to be

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Speaker 1: the most cruel and the most restriction is the border,

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Speaker 1: there's no doubt that Donald Trump and Steven Miller are

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Speaker 1: going to win that all day long. So I think

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Speaker 1: all of this celebration, Oh Biden, so clever, Biden, so smart,

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Speaker 1: this was such a great ploy is insane. I think

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Speaker 1: it's cope, I think it's ridiculous, and I think it's foolish.

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Speaker 2: I totally agree on the politics, disagree a bit on

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Speaker 2: the policy. People can go watch some of our debates

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Speaker 2: on that in the past. But yeah, I mean listen,

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Speaker 2: no matter what. Like, I'm a pretty strong immigration voter.

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Speaker 2: I would say, is one of the main if anything

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Speaker 2: still ties me to the main Republican Party, it would

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Speaker 2: be immigration. Why would I ever vote for Biden. It's

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Speaker 2: like one of those where if this is a policy

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Speaker 2: where it's one of my number one issues, and why

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Speaker 2: would I vote for somebody who consistently undermined the immigration

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Speaker 2: policy over the first three years, got dragged here kicking

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Speaker 2: and screaming, and is trying to do this for a

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Speaker 2: political ploy, which, as you said, is not going to work. Now,

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Speaker 2: I'll take myself out of it and just say, who

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Speaker 2: are people who are voting on the border. If you

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Speaker 2: are voting on the border, you're a Republican Like I

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Speaker 2: just want to break it to you.

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Speaker 3: You are.

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Speaker 2: You are the number one issue in the Republican Party

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Speaker 2: today amongst the GOP primary electorate is immigration. Also, something

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Speaker 2: else that has become very clear on the politics here.

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Speaker 2: I'm curious what you think of this is that in

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Speaker 2: the past, excuse me, is that in the past is

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Speaker 2: that there was a major split on immigration in the

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Speaker 2: Republican Party. Lindsey Graham, Marco Rubio, the Gang of Eight

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Speaker 2: by and large embraced in twenty thirteen the idea of

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Speaker 2: comprehensive immigrant reform paired with some future border enforcement. Now,

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Speaker 2: with the basically the shutdown and the collapse of GOP

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Speaker 2: support for even a bill like this, it basically means

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Speaker 2: Trump has won the argument within the party.

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Speaker 3: Even in this it is over.

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Speaker 2: The starting point for the Republican Party now is zero

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Speaker 2: zero illegal immigration asylum itself over. I support that, by

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Speaker 2: the way, just so everybody knows, in terms of vamping

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Speaker 2: our asylum process. But my point is is that this

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Speaker 2: view was a minority view within the establishment Republican Party.

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Speaker 2: And the way that you know this, Crystal, is that

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Speaker 2: the US Chamber of Commerce endorse this bill. It doesn't

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Speaker 2: matter at all, they know, why do they endorse it? Well,

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Speaker 2: because they like cheap labor. But that's the secondary part.

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Speaker 2: My point is just that the establishment centers of power,

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Speaker 2: big business groups and others, which with combined with the

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Speaker 2: Coke Parties had I wouldn't say they had won the

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Speaker 2: argument with voters, but they certainly had won with the establishment.

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Speaker 2: To have a guy like Langford, who comes from that

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Speaker 2: wing of the party, who did you know even he

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Speaker 2: tried to negotiate something like this and it just be

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Speaker 2: nuked out right, I think that demonstrates like a major

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Speaker 2: shift in immigration politics period. I also agree with you

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Speaker 2: on the democratic side, which is and this is where

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Speaker 2: I actually want to know what you think, because for me,

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Speaker 2: under Trump, it was easy to scream about child separation,

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Speaker 2: even though Obama did it too, and all of this,

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Speaker 2: and then everyone just conveniently forgets that whenever it happens.

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Speaker 2: But to me, the asylum and the images of the

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Speaker 2: border under Biden just became so untenable within the system

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Speaker 2: that they're trying to use past frameworks for the current

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Speaker 2: problem where you have six to eight million people that cross.

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Speaker 2: You know, under the Biden administration, it just seems to

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Speaker 2: have collapsed within its own logic.

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Speaker 1: Well, I mean, the collapse is a long time coming

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Speaker 1: and predates Joe Biden because basically, I mean to go

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Speaker 1: back in some of the history of our immigration system

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Speaker 1: for a long time, the overwhelming number of people who

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Speaker 1: were coming to America were single Mexican males who were

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Speaker 1: coming for work. And there started to be a shift,

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Speaker 1: largely driven by the way by our total messed up

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Speaker 1: foreign policy vis A vi Guatemala or Salvador in particular,

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Speaker 1: where these countries became incredibly violent and it was incredibly dangerous,

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Speaker 1: and the number of people coming from those Northern Triangle

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Speaker 1: countries spiked. We have not had a major overhaul of

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Speaker 1: our immigration system since the early nineties.

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Speaker 3: Yes, we have insy.

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Speaker 1: Exactly, so we have a system that it's you know,

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Speaker 1: even when it was sort of reflective of the predominant

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Speaker 1: type of migrant that was coming, it's not like it

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Speaker 1: was working that well then either. And you know, it's

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Speaker 1: never been updated to be able to process the number

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Speaker 1: of asylum claims that are coming in. There's you know,

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Speaker 1: always been this tension over, okay, who actually is who

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Speaker 1: actually merits asylum. There's been a massive amount of discrimination

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Speaker 1: between the types of migrants that will be granted asylum.

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Speaker 1: For example, if you're from Cuba, probably granted asylum. If

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Speaker 1: you're from Guatemala, foot drive, you're not going to be

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Speaker 1: granted asylum. If you're from Haiti, you're not going to

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Speaker 1: be granted for asylum. If you're from mal Salvador, you're

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Speaker 1: not going to be granted asylum. If you're from like

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Speaker 1: a former communist country, you know, escaping persecure Venezuela, for example,

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Speaker 1: you will be granted asylum. So it's always been very selective,

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Speaker 1: very political, and largely broken, and the resources inadequate to

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Speaker 1: deal with the number of people who come now claiming asylum.

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Speaker 1: And that really is the core of the issue. Now.

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Speaker 1: The other piece of the issue is of course just

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Speaker 1: a question of like, okay, but how many people do

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Speaker 1: you want to come? How many people is appropriate for?

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Speaker 1: You know, how many people? I think there's a practical

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Speaker 1: consideration of how many people can be absorbed in a

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Speaker 1: nation at a time, given the amount of resources, et cetera.

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Speaker 1: My number for that is much higher than your number

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Speaker 1: for that, you know. I mean that's where we just

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Speaker 1: like wildly differ. I think we can agree on the

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Speaker 1: need for the additional resources to process the claims, but

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Speaker 1: when it comes to how many people should come into

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Speaker 1: the country, you know, I think we feel very differently

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Speaker 1: about that. But with Joe Biden, what do I think

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Speaker 1: happened that brought him to this place. First of all,

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Speaker 1: I do think he had this idea of like, oh,

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Speaker 1: I'm going to call their bluff. Yes, And it's an

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Speaker 1: instinct that we you have seen reflected in a bunch

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Speaker 1: of European nations as well, among these sort of like

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Speaker 1: center left neolibs, where it's like, oh, the right is

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Speaker 1: beating me up on immigration, so let me pretend like

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Speaker 1: I'm on the right, and I was telling you. There

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Speaker 1: was a study that The Guardian wrote up recently that

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Speaker 1: looked at whether or not that worked electorally, and they

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Speaker 1: were like, no, it doesn't work, because if people want

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Speaker 1: an immigration asshole, sorry, then they're going to vote for

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Speaker 1: the most you know, for the right wing party. At

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Speaker 1: the same time, you're demoralizing your own base. Biden, as

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Speaker 1: we know because of Israel and other issues, but in

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Speaker 1: particular because of Israel, his base is already demoralized. This

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Speaker 1: only further is like another thumb in their eye of

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Speaker 1: I'm going to be even harsher on immigration than Donald

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Speaker 1: Trump was, and I'm going to completely flip from the

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Speaker 1: messaging that I ran on back in twenty twenty. So

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Speaker 1: I think electorally, it's foolish. I think the other thing

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Speaker 1: that happened, Soger is because you did have these like

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Speaker 1: I think the project of bussing migrants into cities. I

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Speaker 1: think that that was very effective because because it is

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Speaker 1: true that, you know, especially like a city like New York. Now,

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Speaker 1: I think it's preposterous the idea that a gigantic city

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Speaker 1: like New York, a city that in a very short

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Speaker 1: period of time in the last century gained thirty percent

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Speaker 1: of its population and is a city of immigrants, can't

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Speaker 1: handle absorbing one hundred thousand plus immigrants. I think that's preposterous.

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Speaker 1: But if people are coming with zero resources all at

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Speaker 1: once and no work permits even to be able to

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Speaker 1: provide for themselves, well yeah, that's that is a drain

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Speaker 1: on resources.

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Speaker 3: Well, and they have the right cool thing to deal with,

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Speaker 3: that's the main thing.

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Speaker 1: And they have the right to shelter. And so Eric

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Speaker 1: Adams is going like, you know, I need help, what

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Speaker 1: are we going to do? And Kathy Hogel is the

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Speaker 1: same thing in Chicago. May are same thing. And so

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Speaker 1: I do think that that also impacted some of the

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Speaker 1: politics here of how we ended up in this place.

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Speaker 3: No question. I totally agree.

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Speaker 2: I actually think that's probably the single most impactful thing.

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Speaker 2: One of the reasons again why I think it collapse

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Speaker 2: on its own logic is Europe is a good example.

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Speaker 2: So back in twenty fifteen, if people will remember, there

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Speaker 2: was the great Syrian Afghan migrant wave across Europe, some

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Speaker 2: of which they're still dealing with today. They had the

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Speaker 2: same level of asylum law that they had to grapple with,

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Speaker 2: which is like, how much of this is real? Most

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Speaker 2: of these guys are military age men. What exactly does

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Speaker 2: this all mean? Are they trying to stay here? Are

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Speaker 2: they really fleeing for their lives? While also they're from

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Speaker 2: a war torn country? Can we send them back?

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Speaker 3: Like? What do we do?

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Speaker 2: And that led to, I mean the rise of places

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Speaker 2: like Victor Orbon Hungarian politics. I was just in Vienna

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Speaker 2: and in Budapest. Both of them told me that the

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Speaker 2: migrant crisis was the single biggest sea change in.

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Speaker 3: All of politics.

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Speaker 2: That led to the first breakdown of the Shingen and

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Speaker 2: since the nineteen nineties it really undermined a lot of

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Speaker 2: the internal logic of the European Union. Even today, there's

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Speaker 2: no massive battles about it. And you know Rishie Sunnach

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Speaker 2: for example, he is under massive pressure from his right

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Speaker 2: because of the asylum thing. Arguably Brexit would not have

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Speaker 2: happened if the German asylum invit thing had nothing. So

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Speaker 2: the politics of it, I think really comes down to

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Speaker 2: the fact that the law from the nineties was just

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Speaker 2: not prepared for what the situation was.

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Speaker 3: Going to be. I think we can genuinely.

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Speaker 2: Agree in terms of the policy and all of that

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Speaker 2: now here, as I said, it has has now been

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Speaker 2: and shifted dramatically to the right for the Republican Party. Now,

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Speaker 2: depending on where you stand, I think that's a good

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Speaker 2: thing personally, but you know that's a it's an overtone

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Speaker 2: window shift.

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Speaker 3: Nonetheless, can we put this please up on the screen.

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Speaker 2: It's the actual whip list, which is the opposition right

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Speaker 2: now to the Senate border deal. That what we see

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Speaker 2: here in the opposition right now, Crystal, is that you

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Speaker 2: have two no votes Bobminenez, Alex Padilla. Actually I believe

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Speaker 2: burn Sanders has been added to that as well.

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Speaker 1: I think Marquee and there's one more that I think

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Speaker 1: there's five Democratic or Burnings and independent no votes.

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Speaker 2: A lot of this is moving quickly, so we're chewing

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Speaker 2: our best. The reason why this is important is that

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Speaker 2: right now it is going to be very difficult for

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Speaker 2: this to even get to sixty votes.

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Speaker 3: The reason why that would matter is that.

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Speaker 2: If it's at sixty, then it can't Even if it

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Speaker 2: doesn't get sixty votes, it will not even be able.

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Speaker 3: To get kloture.

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Speaker 2: The secondary thing that is very important to understand here,

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Speaker 2: if we could put a three please up on this,

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Speaker 2: is that the House of Representatives has already declared this

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Speaker 2: is a joint statement from Speaker Johnston, Steve Scalice, who's

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Speaker 2: the House Majority Whip, and Elie Stephonic have all a

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Speaker 2: statement that they've put out and say that the Senate

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Speaker 2: supplemental says any consideration of this Senate bill in its

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Speaker 2: current form is a waste of time. It is dead

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Speaker 2: capital D on arrival in the House. We encourage the

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Speaker 2: US Senate to reject it. That as I understand it,

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Speaker 2: Crystal is actually playing a huge part in undermining many

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Speaker 2: of the votes in the Senate because many Republicans do

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Speaker 2: not want to take a risky vote on immigration, but

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Speaker 2: they know that it's not I mean, it makes sense obviously,

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Speaker 2: you know you don't want to take a bill already.

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Speaker 3: Senator Langford, by the way.

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Speaker 2: Is under a massive fire amongst the GOP faithful. From

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Speaker 2: what I've seen, Trump basically disavowed him yesterday, even though

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Speaker 2: plot twist he endorsed him. Also, many desantismotors are passing

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Speaker 2: this around. In his endorsement of Senator Langford, he said

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Speaker 2: he's strong on the border.

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Speaker 3: You can't even make it up.

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Speaker 1: I mean, but this bill is strong on the butt.

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Speaker 1: This build up as a which but no, this compared

437
00:20:03,400 --> 00:20:06,720
Speaker 1: to the status quo. If you're in favor of restrictionist

438
00:20:06,760 --> 00:20:11,880
Speaker 1: immigration policies, this makes it much more stringent. It makes it,

439
00:20:12,080 --> 00:20:14,520
Speaker 1: you know, much more towards the Republican vision. And I

440
00:20:14,560 --> 00:20:17,000
Speaker 1: have to say, for me, what this reminds me of is,

441
00:20:17,040 --> 00:20:18,679
Speaker 1: I don't know if you guys remember, I know, you

442
00:20:18,760 --> 00:20:20,919
Speaker 1: remember back in the Obama days when there's all this

443
00:20:20,960 --> 00:20:23,000
Speaker 1: grand bargain. We're going to try to get a grand bargain,

444
00:20:23,400 --> 00:20:26,040
Speaker 1: and which meant like you know, cutting social Security and

445
00:20:26,080 --> 00:20:28,399
Speaker 1: medicare basically and Obama came to the table with the

446
00:20:28,440 --> 00:20:30,800
Speaker 1: deal like here, tea party, I'm going to cave to

447
00:20:30,880 --> 00:20:33,800
Speaker 1: your wishes and I'm going to put cuts to Social

448
00:20:33,800 --> 00:20:38,119
Speaker 1: Security and medicare on the table, and because they you know,

449
00:20:38,200 --> 00:20:39,879
Speaker 1: I think it was probably some of the same logic

450
00:20:39,880 --> 00:20:41,960
Speaker 1: if they didn't want to quote unquote give Obama a win.

451
00:20:42,440 --> 00:20:45,000
Speaker 1: But also, you know, the stated reason was like, oh,

452
00:20:45,040 --> 00:20:47,359
Speaker 1: this doesn't go far enough and this doesn't do enough.

453
00:20:47,800 --> 00:20:50,199
Speaker 1: So the Tea Party did you know, the work of

454
00:20:50,200 --> 00:20:52,120
Speaker 1: people like me who don't want to see those programs

455
00:20:52,119 --> 00:20:56,200
Speaker 1: cut and killed that initiative, and guess what, that never

456
00:20:56,280 --> 00:20:59,400
Speaker 1: came around again. And so, you know, I think first

457
00:20:59,440 --> 00:21:02,960
Speaker 1: of all, it's it's very uncertain whether Donald Trump is

458
00:21:02,960 --> 00:21:04,200
Speaker 1: going to end up in the White House. I think

459
00:21:04,200 --> 00:21:06,760
Speaker 1: it's a fifty to fifty prospect. That's number one. There's

460
00:21:06,760 --> 00:21:08,960
Speaker 1: no way he's going to have a filibuster proof majority

461
00:21:09,000 --> 00:21:10,959
Speaker 1: and control of the House and be able to just

462
00:21:11,040 --> 00:21:13,120
Speaker 1: like do whatever he wants on the board or now.

463
00:21:13,119 --> 00:21:15,080
Speaker 1: He can do what he wants to do with executive action,

464
00:21:15,160 --> 00:21:19,120
Speaker 1: but that's always limited both in what you can do

465
00:21:19,680 --> 00:21:23,080
Speaker 1: and also in the duration of how long that lasts.

466
00:21:23,560 --> 00:21:25,879
Speaker 1: So if you actually want to quote unquote close the

467
00:21:25,920 --> 00:21:28,080
Speaker 1: border and limit asylum and all of these things like

468
00:21:28,440 --> 00:21:33,000
Speaker 1: this is probably your best chance under a democratic president.

469
00:21:33,320 --> 00:21:37,239
Speaker 1: Democrats like I said would never agree to something that

470
00:21:37,400 --> 00:21:42,560
Speaker 1: was so enforcement heavy under under Trump or under Republican president.

471
00:21:42,640 --> 00:21:44,520
Speaker 1: So I think this probably is their best chance to

472
00:21:44,720 --> 00:21:47,679
Speaker 1: actually care about, you know, the restrictionist policies that they

473
00:21:47,680 --> 00:21:49,360
Speaker 1: claim to care about. Just to give you one example,

474
00:21:50,040 --> 00:21:53,560
Speaker 1: this bill would more than double the budget. Device Yes,

475
00:21:54,119 --> 00:21:59,800
Speaker 1: it would give the DHS secretary unilateral powers to deport

476
00:21:59,840 --> 00:22:02,520
Speaker 1: as many people as he or she wants to deport.

477
00:22:03,080 --> 00:22:05,880
Speaker 1: These are powers that this is again from the democratic perspective,

478
00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:08,640
Speaker 1: I think this is insane, like, yes, you're giving these

479
00:22:08,640 --> 00:22:11,000
Speaker 1: powers right now to Joe Biden and Joe Biden's administration,

480
00:22:11,080 --> 00:22:12,960
Speaker 1: But if Trump wins, you're giving those powers to Trump

481
00:22:12,960 --> 00:22:16,040
Speaker 1: on his administration. Are you really comfortable with that and

482
00:22:16,080 --> 00:22:19,200
Speaker 1: the way that they would use those powers. So again

483
00:22:19,359 --> 00:22:22,560
Speaker 1: I think if you actually, you know, back the rhetoric

484
00:22:22,600 --> 00:22:25,919
Speaker 1: that they back and believe in a restrictionist policy, this

485
00:22:26,080 --> 00:22:28,080
Speaker 1: is probably the best deal you're going to get. And

486
00:22:28,119 --> 00:22:30,800
Speaker 1: I am incredibly delighted, especially when you pair it with

487
00:22:30,880 --> 00:22:33,640
Speaker 1: Ukraine and Israel aid, well, yeah, they want to well

488
00:22:33,680 --> 00:22:36,040
Speaker 1: and there we can agree that they want to kill

489
00:22:36,080 --> 00:22:38,200
Speaker 1: the thing and that it's quote unquote dead on arrival

490
00:22:38,200 --> 00:22:38,919
Speaker 1: in the House.

491
00:22:38,680 --> 00:22:40,680
Speaker 2: I'll give you the case that I've heard, which is

492
00:22:40,760 --> 00:22:42,560
Speaker 2: McConnell's an old man. He's either going to die or

493
00:22:42,560 --> 00:22:45,000
Speaker 2: he's not going to be there very soon, and he's

494
00:22:45,000 --> 00:22:47,040
Speaker 2: the only person who is standing. Trump actually encourage him

495
00:22:47,040 --> 00:22:50,119
Speaker 2: to nuke the filibuster. In the case of for border

496
00:22:50,200 --> 00:22:52,840
Speaker 2: enforcement deal. If we remember, for the border Wall, HR

497
00:22:52,920 --> 00:22:55,920
Speaker 2: two already passed the House of Representatives. HR two goes

498
00:22:56,040 --> 00:22:58,199
Speaker 2: much farther than this. I'm a very strong supporter of

499
00:22:58,280 --> 00:23:00,720
Speaker 2: HR two. I think it's a great bill immigration. It

500
00:23:00,760 --> 00:23:03,560
Speaker 2: completely reforms asylum in a very different policy, endorsed also

501
00:23:03,600 --> 00:23:05,760
Speaker 2: by the Border Patrol Union, which.

502
00:23:05,640 --> 00:23:08,000
Speaker 1: This bill is endorsed by the Border That's why I

503
00:23:08,000 --> 00:23:09,760
Speaker 1: wanted to talk about this, so I did some digging.

504
00:23:09,920 --> 00:23:11,600
Speaker 2: I asked them, my immigration friends, like, oh, what the

505
00:23:11,600 --> 00:23:13,439
Speaker 2: hell are these do it? Because I was I was like,

506
00:23:13,560 --> 00:23:15,719
Speaker 2: this can't be real. Brandon Judd, who I know, by

507
00:23:15,760 --> 00:23:18,680
Speaker 2: the way, Brandon was the head of the Border Patrol Unit.

508
00:23:18,720 --> 00:23:20,320
Speaker 2: I used to work with him quite a bit in

509
00:23:20,320 --> 00:23:22,280
Speaker 2: the past. So Crystal, one of the reasons the Border

510
00:23:22,280 --> 00:23:24,720
Speaker 2: Patrol Union sup forces this is because it dramatically increases

511
00:23:24,720 --> 00:23:26,280
Speaker 2: their pay. It's not just over asylum.

512
00:23:26,359 --> 00:23:28,439
Speaker 1: But yeah, but they I mean, what they wrote in

513
00:23:28,440 --> 00:23:31,040
Speaker 1: their endorsement is this gives us like the strongest set

514
00:23:31,040 --> 00:23:32,120
Speaker 1: of tools that we've ever had.

515
00:23:32,160 --> 00:23:33,840
Speaker 3: That's true, Yeah, absolutely, no question.

516
00:23:34,000 --> 00:23:36,760
Speaker 2: But again my case, the case that I have heard

517
00:23:36,920 --> 00:23:38,800
Speaker 2: from those who say is look, Mitch is going to

518
00:23:38,880 --> 00:23:41,320
Speaker 2: be gone. We already have the House, We've won the argument.

519
00:23:41,480 --> 00:23:42,920
Speaker 2: Now the Senators are going to vote the way that

520
00:23:42,960 --> 00:23:45,080
Speaker 2: we tell him to. If we knew the filibuster. For

521
00:23:46,280 --> 00:23:49,159
Speaker 2: many many Republicans who are not named Mitch McConnell are

522
00:23:49,200 --> 00:23:50,920
Speaker 2: very open to nuken the philibuster and they're like, we'll

523
00:23:50,960 --> 00:23:52,320
Speaker 2: just pass our immigration bill.

524
00:23:52,359 --> 00:23:53,840
Speaker 3: I know you're amazed philibuster too.

525
00:23:53,840 --> 00:23:57,680
Speaker 1: So maybe, but there's no reason why you couldn't do that.

526
00:23:58,200 --> 00:24:00,560
Speaker 1: You couldn't pass this bill and then still do that

527
00:24:00,600 --> 00:24:03,600
Speaker 1: down the road. I think, like that doesn't the possibility.

528
00:24:03,119 --> 00:24:06,000
Speaker 2: To kill us island on the DHS secretary, you know,

529
00:24:06,119 --> 00:24:08,840
Speaker 2: gets unilateral authority. Well, Republicans don't try. Theyre impeaching him

530
00:24:08,880 --> 00:24:10,080
Speaker 2: right now because they say that he's.

531
00:24:09,920 --> 00:24:10,720
Speaker 3: Not following the law.

532
00:24:10,920 --> 00:24:12,679
Speaker 2: For them, it's actually one of the reasons not to

533
00:24:12,680 --> 00:24:15,480
Speaker 2: give the power to Myorky sports.

534
00:24:15,240 --> 00:24:17,320
Speaker 1: Doesn't I mean, but that doesn't know it gives him

535
00:24:17,520 --> 00:24:20,800
Speaker 1: unilateral authority to deport as many people as he wants

536
00:24:20,920 --> 00:24:24,880
Speaker 1: to report. That's not like, it's not like unilateral authority

537
00:24:24,920 --> 00:24:27,800
Speaker 1: to give them an amnesty. It just goes in one direction.

538
00:24:28,200 --> 00:24:31,400
Speaker 1: So your worst case scenario is, you know the status quo.

539
00:24:31,480 --> 00:24:33,080
Speaker 2: Well, if you gives somebody a work permit and you

540
00:24:33,080 --> 00:24:35,480
Speaker 2: don't deport him, that basically is amnesty, because when the

541
00:24:35,480 --> 00:24:37,000
Speaker 2: hell are they going to leave? I mean, that's kind

542
00:24:37,000 --> 00:24:38,320
Speaker 2: of the But here's.

543
00:24:38,080 --> 00:24:40,399
Speaker 1: The thing, just on a substantive level, that I genuinely

544
00:24:40,440 --> 00:24:44,359
Speaker 1: don't understand, and I want to hear your analysis of Republicans.

545
00:24:44,400 --> 00:24:46,119
Speaker 1: We've covered this on the show a bunch of times,

546
00:24:46,600 --> 00:24:48,840
Speaker 1: talk about, you know, all these people who are leaving

547
00:24:48,840 --> 00:24:52,600
Speaker 1: New York, going to Texas, going to Florida, and that

548
00:24:52,800 --> 00:24:55,760
Speaker 1: seen is like that internal migration is seen as like,

549
00:24:56,400 --> 00:24:59,560
Speaker 1: I think justifiably so terrible for New York and terrible

550
00:24:59,600 --> 00:25:03,360
Speaker 1: for calif Cornia, and fantastic for taxes and fantastic for Florida.

551
00:25:03,880 --> 00:25:06,000
Speaker 1: But suddenly when it's people who are coming from outside

552
00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:08,520
Speaker 1: the country, even though they're also just human beings. And

553
00:25:08,560 --> 00:25:10,840
Speaker 1: by the way, immigrants like some of the clearly like

554
00:25:11,040 --> 00:25:14,240
Speaker 1: hardest working and oftentimes most patriotic people you could possibly be.

555
00:25:14,960 --> 00:25:16,880
Speaker 1: Suddenly when they're coming from out of the country, when

556
00:25:16,880 --> 00:25:18,200
Speaker 1: they come to New York, it's like, oh my god,

557
00:25:18,200 --> 00:25:20,199
Speaker 1: this is terrible for New York. So how is it

558
00:25:20,240 --> 00:25:22,560
Speaker 1: that people leaving is bad but also people coming as bad.

559
00:25:22,640 --> 00:25:25,440
Speaker 2: It's a philosophical difference, Crystal, which is that the first part,

560
00:25:25,480 --> 00:25:28,320
Speaker 2: your people are lawful permanent residence in their American citizens

561
00:25:28,320 --> 00:25:30,280
Speaker 2: and the people who are coming here are not.

562
00:25:30,480 --> 00:25:31,760
Speaker 3: And in most they could.

563
00:25:31,600 --> 00:25:34,040
Speaker 2: Say maybe, but you know, they don't pay taxes and

564
00:25:35,160 --> 00:25:37,160
Speaker 2: elish that would be but that would.

565
00:25:36,960 --> 00:25:40,040
Speaker 1: Be an argument for a pathway to citizenship, to legalizing them,

566
00:25:40,080 --> 00:25:42,360
Speaker 1: bringing them out of the shadows. Because yeah, the problem,

567
00:25:42,600 --> 00:25:44,159
Speaker 1: and this is one of the arguments about like, oh,

568
00:25:44,160 --> 00:25:47,439
Speaker 1: it depresses the wages. What depresses wages is when you

569
00:25:47,520 --> 00:25:51,119
Speaker 1: have people who are not legalized, who are in the shadows,

570
00:25:51,119 --> 00:25:53,560
Speaker 1: who are being paid under the table, oftentimes like less

571
00:25:53,560 --> 00:25:56,080
Speaker 1: than minimum wage and not having to abide by labor regulations.

572
00:25:56,480 --> 00:26:00,439
Speaker 1: What you're making is an argument for legalizing immigrant for

573
00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:03,760
Speaker 1: allowing in more legal immigrants versus having this massive shadow.

574
00:26:03,800 --> 00:26:06,119
Speaker 2: I actually don't support legalizing immigrants, and I don't support

575
00:26:06,160 --> 00:26:08,240
Speaker 2: pathway delitionship for the vast majority of people here, and

576
00:26:08,240 --> 00:26:10,320
Speaker 2: I'll tell you why, which is that as fundamentally as

577
00:26:10,320 --> 00:26:13,159
Speaker 2: a fairness issue, people like my parents spent years and

578
00:26:13,520 --> 00:26:16,560
Speaker 2: tens of thousands of dollars on lawyers trying to get visas.

579
00:26:16,680 --> 00:26:19,520
Speaker 2: They had PhDs and master's degrees. It's not that easy

580
00:26:19,520 --> 00:26:21,879
Speaker 2: for people to get a visa to this country. You

581
00:26:21,880 --> 00:26:25,720
Speaker 2: can ask anybody who's like me. I think it's bullshit, frankly,

582
00:26:25,760 --> 00:26:27,560
Speaker 2: that you can just cross the border just say I

583
00:26:27,600 --> 00:26:30,040
Speaker 2: fear for my life because Al Salvador sucks, and you

584
00:26:30,080 --> 00:26:32,399
Speaker 2: get to stay here and you get to work for

585
00:26:32,520 --> 00:26:36,320
Speaker 2: five ten years lively never leave. The other case and

586
00:26:36,359 --> 00:26:38,720
Speaker 2: this is look, you can call me racist if you want.

587
00:26:39,000 --> 00:26:41,240
Speaker 2: Vast majority of people arriving here have no skills. We're

588
00:26:41,280 --> 00:26:43,520
Speaker 2: lucky if they have a fifth grade reading level in Spanish,

589
00:26:43,640 --> 00:26:47,040
Speaker 2: let alone in English. They're not educated in terms of

590
00:26:47,119 --> 00:26:48,560
Speaker 2: the jobs that they're going to take. I mean, is

591
00:26:48,560 --> 00:26:51,639
Speaker 2: it really fair to depress like wages for the lower

592
00:26:51,680 --> 00:26:53,040
Speaker 2: class Americans?

593
00:26:54,200 --> 00:26:55,960
Speaker 3: I mean, the research is a supply and demand.

594
00:26:56,880 --> 00:26:59,400
Speaker 1: It's your assumption is that there are some set number

595
00:26:59,400 --> 00:27:01,439
Speaker 1: of jobs in the economy and that's it, end of story.

596
00:27:01,440 --> 00:27:04,560
Speaker 1: It doesn't shift. So again, it comes back to Okay,

597
00:27:04,600 --> 00:27:06,679
Speaker 1: then why is it a great thing for New Yorkers

598
00:27:06,680 --> 00:27:08,600
Speaker 1: to be moving to Texas? Why is that great for Texas.

599
00:27:08,640 --> 00:27:10,919
Speaker 1: Why isn't that them taking their jobs and depressing their

600
00:27:10,960 --> 00:27:13,240
Speaker 1: wages and ruining their community.

601
00:27:13,320 --> 00:27:14,200
Speaker 3: Many people, et cetera.

602
00:27:14,320 --> 00:27:16,320
Speaker 2: Many people in my home state of Texas would say

603
00:27:16,320 --> 00:27:18,520
Speaker 2: it's ruining their community and it is driving prices up

604
00:27:18,520 --> 00:27:19,080
Speaker 2: because of the story.

605
00:27:19,280 --> 00:27:21,720
Speaker 1: But they brag about, oh, all the moving vans coming

606
00:27:21,800 --> 00:27:24,760
Speaker 1: here to Florida and to Texas. But when it's when

607
00:27:24,760 --> 00:27:27,960
Speaker 1: it's you know, American citizens coming from New York, then

608
00:27:28,040 --> 00:27:30,000
Speaker 1: it's amazing and it's great for the economy, et cetera,

609
00:27:30,040 --> 00:27:32,560
Speaker 1: et cetera. But somehow, even though it's just also people

610
00:27:32,800 --> 00:27:34,600
Speaker 1: they just happen to be coming from outside the country,

611
00:27:34,640 --> 00:27:36,160
Speaker 1: then suddenly it's terrible. It doesn't make sense.

612
00:27:36,160 --> 00:27:37,919
Speaker 2: I just think there's a fundamental difference between a guy

613
00:27:37,960 --> 00:27:39,840
Speaker 2: who makes two hundred fifty thousand dollars from New York

614
00:27:39,880 --> 00:27:41,879
Speaker 2: and moves to Austin, who's paying taxes and can buy

615
00:27:41,880 --> 00:27:43,200
Speaker 2: a house, and somebody who comes here with.

616
00:27:43,160 --> 00:27:47,320
Speaker 1: Literally I think that's so classiest because they're not First.

617
00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:49,200
Speaker 3: Of all, they're not from he look, they don't deserve anything.

618
00:27:50,200 --> 00:27:53,600
Speaker 1: Think about but I'm okay put aside, like you know

619
00:27:53,680 --> 00:27:56,359
Speaker 1: who deserves what, et cetera, et cetera. Just think about

620
00:27:56,359 --> 00:27:59,040
Speaker 1: the best interests of the country. Like it's very clear

621
00:27:59,560 --> 00:28:02,760
Speaker 1: that some level of immigration, and you can see it

622
00:28:02,760 --> 00:28:05,879
Speaker 1: again when we're talking about internal migration is very good

623
00:28:06,040 --> 00:28:09,679
Speaker 1: for local economies. And you know what, what we have

624
00:28:09,800 --> 00:28:13,199
Speaker 1: seen as a nation of immigrants is that in these

625
00:28:13,280 --> 00:28:17,119
Speaker 1: subsequent waves of immigration, some of the hardest working people,

626
00:28:17,200 --> 00:28:21,240
Speaker 1: most family oriented people, etcetera. Absolutely, and more law abiding.

627
00:28:21,280 --> 00:28:24,680
Speaker 1: By the way, are immigrants depends on the type, But yes, nope,

628
00:28:24,720 --> 00:28:29,080
Speaker 1: not true. If you look over all, immigrant populations more

629
00:28:29,119 --> 00:28:32,760
Speaker 1: law abiding than native born citizens. Not to mention, yes,

630
00:28:32,800 --> 00:28:35,359
Speaker 1: when they first come and they're learning the language and

631
00:28:35,400 --> 00:28:37,480
Speaker 1: they're new, et cetera, and they're bringing their cultures. We

632
00:28:37,520 --> 00:28:39,360
Speaker 1: all know what the next generation looks like. They just

633
00:28:39,400 --> 00:28:41,760
Speaker 1: look like Americans. Their kids are going to speak English,

634
00:28:41,800 --> 00:28:43,720
Speaker 1: they're going to be one hundred percent American.

635
00:28:43,960 --> 00:28:45,360
Speaker 3: Well, it depends. Look.

636
00:28:45,400 --> 00:28:47,960
Speaker 2: George Borjas, who works over at Harvard University, has done

637
00:28:47,960 --> 00:28:51,080
Speaker 2: a twenty seventeen fantastic study which shows that massive legal

638
00:28:51,120 --> 00:28:54,600
Speaker 2: immigration largely depresses wages for lower class Americans. So that's

639
00:28:54,680 --> 00:28:56,720
Speaker 2: number one. I would say the empirical data is pretty

640
00:28:56,720 --> 00:28:58,840
Speaker 2: set on this in terms of the laws of supply

641
00:28:58,880 --> 00:29:02,520
Speaker 2: and demand. But number two, again is a deep philosophical difference.

642
00:29:02,600 --> 00:29:04,280
Speaker 2: I think that the net and migration level that we

643
00:29:04,280 --> 00:29:06,640
Speaker 2: should have over the next thirty years should be zero.

644
00:29:06,800 --> 00:29:08,800
Speaker 2: And this is my case again, this against and and Look,

645
00:29:09,000 --> 00:29:10,840
Speaker 2: people will be like, how can a guy son of

646
00:29:10,880 --> 00:29:13,480
Speaker 2: Indian immigrants? My mom Vihamillion disagrees with me. If anybody

647
00:29:13,520 --> 00:29:14,959
Speaker 2: wants to know, and she also votes, so she can

648
00:29:15,040 --> 00:29:15,960
Speaker 2: vote the way that she wants.

649
00:29:16,120 --> 00:29:17,560
Speaker 3: If people want to know, I'll.

650
00:29:17,360 --> 00:29:19,880
Speaker 2: Tell you, which is that in the nineteen nineteens and

651
00:29:19,920 --> 00:29:23,600
Speaker 2: the teens, we had a hyphenated American crisis very similar

652
00:29:23,600 --> 00:29:26,400
Speaker 2: to the one that we have here. Mass internal strife,

653
00:29:26,680 --> 00:29:30,760
Speaker 2: complete differences of opinion. People speak in German, people speak

654
00:29:30,760 --> 00:29:34,080
Speaker 2: in Italian. They had dual loyalty to their old countries.

655
00:29:34,120 --> 00:29:36,240
Speaker 2: As we saw during the war of the First World War,

656
00:29:36,400 --> 00:29:38,320
Speaker 2: it was a huge problem. We had a massive foreign

657
00:29:38,320 --> 00:29:42,800
Speaker 2: born population equivalent only to today. Internal strife was solved

658
00:29:42,840 --> 00:29:46,200
Speaker 2: one way. We dramatically lowered the level of immigration. We

659
00:29:46,320 --> 00:29:49,240
Speaker 2: let people assimilate into the country and for the next

660
00:29:49,280 --> 00:29:52,560
Speaker 2: forty to fifty years we had very very little immigration.

661
00:29:52,840 --> 00:29:55,959
Speaker 2: Now that is my case, we're actually becoming a cohesive

662
00:29:56,080 --> 00:30:00,360
Speaker 2: nation which can have a true national identity, and one

663
00:30:00,360 --> 00:30:03,080
Speaker 2: where the foreign born population, where it is currently at

664
00:30:03,120 --> 00:30:06,200
Speaker 2: an all time high, should not continue to be higher

665
00:30:06,400 --> 00:30:09,800
Speaker 2: with the orderly process. I will also say many Indians

666
00:30:09,840 --> 00:30:11,720
Speaker 2: will be pissed off at what I'm saying because I'm

667
00:30:11,760 --> 00:30:15,080
Speaker 2: also claiming that legal immigration should go to net zero,

668
00:30:15,240 --> 00:30:17,920
Speaker 2: and I strongly believe it, because I do believe that

669
00:30:18,040 --> 00:30:22,120
Speaker 2: our current sovereignty and internal politics is so divisive, largely

670
00:30:22,160 --> 00:30:23,640
Speaker 2: because we do not relate to.

671
00:30:23,640 --> 00:30:25,320
Speaker 3: One another whatsoever, and.

672
00:30:25,200 --> 00:30:27,560
Speaker 1: That really has nothing to do with immigrants world.

673
00:30:27,600 --> 00:30:29,360
Speaker 3: I mean, it's just not going to work even.

674
00:30:29,200 --> 00:30:33,520
Speaker 1: If you look at like the political divide has never

675
00:30:33,560 --> 00:30:36,920
Speaker 1: been actually less racially polarized than it is right now. Sure,

676
00:30:37,000 --> 00:30:39,080
Speaker 1: and in fact Republicans are winning. This is the other

677
00:30:39,080 --> 00:30:40,760
Speaker 1: thing with all this great replacement. Oh, they want to

678
00:30:40,760 --> 00:30:42,320
Speaker 1: bring in all these immigrants to so they can vote

679
00:30:42,320 --> 00:30:45,440
Speaker 1: for Democrats. Like that's actually happening less and less and Republicans.

680
00:30:45,920 --> 00:30:48,640
Speaker 1: Republicans love to brag about how they're winning over this population,

681
00:30:48,760 --> 00:30:50,840
Speaker 1: but also fear monger about how they could never win

682
00:30:50,880 --> 00:30:53,720
Speaker 1: this population. So that's another part of the conversation that

683
00:30:53,760 --> 00:30:56,880
Speaker 1: I think makes absolutely no sense and is utterly ridiculous.

684
00:30:57,120 --> 00:30:59,840
Speaker 1: The divide in this country. Yeah, some are, you know,

685
00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:03,480
Speaker 1: there are some racial divisions, but increasingly we're actually less

686
00:31:03,520 --> 00:31:08,000
Speaker 1: polarized among racial lines. And you know, I would I

687
00:31:08,040 --> 00:31:11,120
Speaker 1: would wager and I think most people would agree that

688
00:31:11,240 --> 00:31:13,960
Speaker 1: ultimately the country was much better for those waves of

689
00:31:14,440 --> 00:31:18,160
Speaker 1: Irish and Italian and Polish and German immigrants. I mean,

690
00:31:18,200 --> 00:31:20,600
Speaker 1: that's part of what has made this country what it is.

691
00:31:20,920 --> 00:31:23,680
Speaker 1: And I don't see this new wave of migrants coming

692
00:31:23,680 --> 00:31:26,400
Speaker 1: from a different part of the world in any different way.

693
00:31:26,840 --> 00:31:29,080
Speaker 1: So listen, is there is there a limit to how

694
00:31:29,160 --> 00:31:30,920
Speaker 1: much we can you know, bring in at one time.

695
00:31:31,080 --> 00:31:34,000
Speaker 1: Just again, you know, practically, if you flood the zone

696
00:31:34,000 --> 00:31:35,880
Speaker 1: with a whole bunch of new people and that creates

697
00:31:35,880 --> 00:31:38,120
Speaker 1: how there's there's problems. I'm not going to say that

698
00:31:38,160 --> 00:31:40,000
Speaker 1: there's like, you know, you can just bring in the

699
00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:42,240
Speaker 1: whole world and it's not going to cause an issue.

700
00:31:42,640 --> 00:31:46,560
Speaker 1: But I do think that there's something fundamentally broken in

701
00:31:46,600 --> 00:31:49,280
Speaker 1: a logic that would say, you know, it's very clear

702
00:31:49,840 --> 00:31:53,160
Speaker 1: when a place like the industrial Midwest empties down and

703
00:31:53,200 --> 00:31:56,640
Speaker 1: these towns are decaying and people are fleeing. It's very

704
00:31:56,640 --> 00:31:59,320
Speaker 1: clear that's like, that's a bad thing. It's very clear

705
00:31:59,320 --> 00:32:01,320
Speaker 1: when it's New York people are leaving New York that

706
00:32:01,320 --> 00:32:04,280
Speaker 1: that's a bad thing. But then somehow, when it's other

707
00:32:04,320 --> 00:32:07,320
Speaker 1: people who are coming in, which in a different scenario,

708
00:32:07,520 --> 00:32:09,520
Speaker 1: if they you know, came from a different country, a

709
00:32:09,640 --> 00:32:11,400
Speaker 1: different part of the world, you say this is great,

710
00:32:11,440 --> 00:32:14,600
Speaker 1: this is wonderful. Somehow that's terrible. It just doesn't make

711
00:32:14,640 --> 00:32:16,120
Speaker 1: any sense to me. And I don't think that the

712
00:32:16,160 --> 00:32:19,960
Speaker 1: studies back up. The studies show that if you have

713
00:32:20,160 --> 00:32:24,400
Speaker 1: a massive undocumented illegal workforce, that that can be a

714
00:32:24,440 --> 00:32:29,120
Speaker 1: problem for wages. Actually documented immigrants, the overwhelming majority of

715
00:32:29,120 --> 00:32:33,240
Speaker 1: studies show it's actually good for It's neutral on wages,

716
00:32:33,800 --> 00:32:36,520
Speaker 1: and in general is good for the economy and helps

717
00:32:36,560 --> 00:32:40,160
Speaker 1: for the like thriving of that local area. So that's why,

718
00:32:40,280 --> 00:32:42,480
Speaker 1: you know, again, I'm not like open borders, just you know,

719
00:32:42,600 --> 00:32:45,320
Speaker 1: let's have an unlimited number, but I think we can

720
00:32:45,360 --> 00:32:47,040
Speaker 1: handle a lot more than we have. I think it'd

721
00:32:47,040 --> 00:32:48,840
Speaker 1: be good for all kinds of people, all kinds of

722
00:32:48,880 --> 00:32:51,000
Speaker 1: parts of the country. And I also just think it's

723
00:32:51,000 --> 00:32:55,960
Speaker 1: fundamentally like goes against some core American values. This complete

724
00:32:56,000 --> 00:32:58,920
Speaker 1: attack on the asylum process and this idea that we

725
00:32:58,960 --> 00:33:00,880
Speaker 1: don't care if you're being person, We don't care if

726
00:33:01,080 --> 00:33:02,800
Speaker 1: you fear for your lives, you know, we don't care

727
00:33:02,840 --> 00:33:04,240
Speaker 1: if you're like, you know, do you try and to

728
00:33:04,320 --> 00:33:05,960
Speaker 1: escape Nazi Germany or whatever.

729
00:33:06,760 --> 00:33:08,440
Speaker 3: It is these people are.

730
00:33:09,040 --> 00:33:12,080
Speaker 2: These people are not fleeing hol No, but no, they're

731
00:33:12,120 --> 00:33:14,360
Speaker 2: playing gang violence, by the way, but hold on.

732
00:33:14,280 --> 00:33:14,600
Speaker 3: Hold on.

733
00:33:14,640 --> 00:33:17,120
Speaker 1: But if you end the asylum process, you are telling

734
00:33:17,160 --> 00:33:19,640
Speaker 1: people who would potentially be fleeing a holocaust like, we

735
00:33:19,680 --> 00:33:21,280
Speaker 1: don't care. That's too bad, We're full.

736
00:33:21,480 --> 00:33:23,400
Speaker 2: What we could say is if there's a future holocaust,

737
00:33:23,400 --> 00:33:25,080
Speaker 2: then sure, we're on a case by case basis.

738
00:33:25,080 --> 00:33:26,520
Speaker 3: We can evaluate what's going to happen.

739
00:33:26,560 --> 00:33:29,760
Speaker 2: And again I would even say, is that the okay,

740
00:33:29,880 --> 00:33:32,080
Speaker 2: El Salvador, let's currently look.

741
00:33:32,440 --> 00:33:35,640
Speaker 3: Everyone likes to talk about root causes. Well, what just happened.

742
00:33:35,640 --> 00:33:39,040
Speaker 2: We just had a mass election of a right wing

743
00:33:39,160 --> 00:33:43,760
Speaker 2: authoritarian president who through all the criminals in jail and

744
00:33:43,840 --> 00:33:48,520
Speaker 2: dramatically lowered their murder rate. That proves they are adults

745
00:33:48,600 --> 00:33:51,480
Speaker 2: with agency. They can elect leaders who want to deal

746
00:33:51,520 --> 00:33:54,479
Speaker 2: with their problems and deal with their own problems and

747
00:33:54,520 --> 00:33:55,520
Speaker 2: stay where they are.

748
00:33:55,760 --> 00:33:57,960
Speaker 3: El Salvador's problems are El Salvadors.

749
00:33:58,040 --> 00:34:03,120
Speaker 2: Venezuela's problems are Venezuela's hasn't been exoaccurbated by US sanctions, sure.

750
00:34:02,920 --> 00:34:04,239
Speaker 3: But at the end of the day, who can.

751
00:34:04,360 --> 00:34:07,760
Speaker 2: It's not our problem, it's not our fault that your country.

752
00:34:07,800 --> 00:34:10,359
Speaker 2: If your country sucks, it's your responsibility to fix it.

753
00:34:10,400 --> 00:34:12,080
Speaker 1: But see, I just look at this totally different. I mean,

754
00:34:12,160 --> 00:34:14,680
Speaker 1: first of all, like you know, we can't exempt ourselves

755
00:34:14,760 --> 00:34:17,360
Speaker 1: from the foreign policy that we up till very recently,

756
00:34:17,520 --> 00:34:20,600
Speaker 1: we're you know, screwing over these countries or the drug

757
00:34:20,640 --> 00:34:23,879
Speaker 1: war that has is one of the you know, most

758
00:34:23,920 --> 00:34:28,000
Speaker 1: critical root causes in making many of these places incredibly violent.

759
00:34:28,040 --> 00:34:29,799
Speaker 1: But even if you put that aside, like I said, like,

760
00:34:30,280 --> 00:34:32,759
Speaker 1: I don't see this as like a punishment. I think

761
00:34:32,800 --> 00:34:35,120
Speaker 1: if you if you look at it through another lens

762
00:34:35,239 --> 00:34:37,600
Speaker 1: of you know, typically it's a great thing when people

763
00:34:37,600 --> 00:34:39,120
Speaker 1: want to move to a place, When they want to

764
00:34:39,160 --> 00:34:41,319
Speaker 1: move to Florida somehow, it's a great thing. You know,

765
00:34:41,400 --> 00:34:43,080
Speaker 1: when they want to move to Texas, somehow, it's a

766
00:34:43,120 --> 00:34:45,279
Speaker 1: great thing. So I don't see this as like, oh,

767
00:34:45,320 --> 00:34:48,520
Speaker 1: we're being punished by having clean up other people's messes. No,

768
00:34:49,000 --> 00:34:51,120
Speaker 1: I think we should have a process that's orderly. I

769
00:34:51,160 --> 00:34:53,160
Speaker 1: think we should have enough resources to be able to

770
00:34:53,200 --> 00:34:55,000
Speaker 1: deal with the number of people that are coming. I

771
00:34:55,040 --> 00:34:57,080
Speaker 1: think we should have an ability, you know, a system

772
00:34:57,080 --> 00:35:00,640
Speaker 1: that makes sense that lets in a certain number, you

773
00:35:00,640 --> 00:35:03,520
Speaker 1: know that's not going to overwhelm the entire country. But

774
00:35:03,560 --> 00:35:05,319
Speaker 1: we should, in general see it as a good thing

775
00:35:05,360 --> 00:35:07,160
Speaker 1: that people want to come to the United States of

776
00:35:07,200 --> 00:35:09,120
Speaker 1: America and still see it as the land of opportunity.

777
00:35:09,120 --> 00:35:10,440
Speaker 3: You should see it as a land of opportunity. It

778
00:35:10,440 --> 00:35:10,719
Speaker 3: should be.

779
00:35:10,719 --> 00:35:12,200
Speaker 2: It should be a land of opportunity for people who

780
00:35:12,200 --> 00:35:14,720
Speaker 2: live here and people who are natural born US citizens

781
00:35:14,800 --> 00:35:15,120
Speaker 2: or a lot.

782
00:35:15,160 --> 00:35:17,239
Speaker 1: But I don't see. But that's the thing, is like

783
00:35:17,400 --> 00:35:19,560
Speaker 1: you see this as a zero sum game, and it's not.

784
00:35:20,000 --> 00:35:20,319
Speaker 3: It's not.

785
00:35:21,000 --> 00:35:22,920
Speaker 2: Like I said, there's a lot of data to back

786
00:35:22,960 --> 00:35:25,160
Speaker 2: it up. Now in terms of the difference between the

787
00:35:25,200 --> 00:35:28,480
Speaker 2: Irish and the German is we were rapidly industrializing economy

788
00:35:28,480 --> 00:35:31,160
Speaker 2: which needed cheap labor. I would also say that a

789
00:35:31,200 --> 00:35:33,800
Speaker 2: lot of people who were natural born hated the Irish

790
00:35:33,800 --> 00:35:36,480
Speaker 2: and the Germans with some good reason, because they were

791
00:35:36,640 --> 00:35:39,040
Speaker 2: depleting their wages or were willing to work for much

792
00:35:39,120 --> 00:35:40,759
Speaker 2: less than they were and they were driving around their

793
00:35:40,760 --> 00:35:44,000
Speaker 2: old overall wages, which led to major labor disputes even

794
00:35:44,040 --> 00:35:45,439
Speaker 2: within unions at the time.

795
00:35:45,840 --> 00:35:48,319
Speaker 3: So that played out one hundred years ago. But that

796
00:35:48,320 --> 00:35:49,640
Speaker 3: was one hundred years ago, and we can say what

797
00:35:49,680 --> 00:35:50,440
Speaker 3: it is today.

798
00:35:50,480 --> 00:35:53,160
Speaker 2: We are not a rapidly industrializing economy or a rapidly

799
00:35:53,160 --> 00:35:54,719
Speaker 2: de industrializing economy.

800
00:35:54,880 --> 00:35:56,520
Speaker 3: We don't need a lot of cheap labor.

801
00:35:56,719 --> 00:35:59,080
Speaker 2: The predominant amount of cheap labor that does come here

802
00:35:59,280 --> 00:36:01,920
Speaker 2: and ends up working work in places like home health

803
00:36:01,920 --> 00:36:04,880
Speaker 2: care space, they don't. They end up depressing wages in

804
00:36:04,920 --> 00:36:08,120
Speaker 2: places like construction and others. And there's also we have

805
00:36:08,160 --> 00:36:10,319
Speaker 2: a housing supply issue. I mean, you know, like where

806
00:36:10,320 --> 00:36:13,120
Speaker 2: are these people gonna live? But then look, this is

807
00:36:13,280 --> 00:36:14,359
Speaker 2: this is why I don't even like to have an

808
00:36:14,360 --> 00:36:19,040
Speaker 2: economic argument as much. It's about process and it's about legality.

809
00:36:19,239 --> 00:36:22,200
Speaker 2: If you, for example, and you're using it one it's

810
00:36:22,239 --> 00:36:25,520
Speaker 2: about El Salvador. Why is it fair that we invaded

811
00:36:25,560 --> 00:36:28,480
Speaker 2: Iraq and Iraqis can't just walk here? Don't they have

812
00:36:28,560 --> 00:36:30,759
Speaker 2: more right to live here than anyone else? Salvador I

813
00:36:30,800 --> 00:36:34,560
Speaker 2: would say, yeah, absolutely, But it's because they can't walk.

814
00:36:34,560 --> 00:36:38,719
Speaker 1: But we do have special programs for I think Iraqis,

815
00:36:38,760 --> 00:36:42,680
Speaker 1: but definitely Afghan interpreters as well, who helped us work.

816
00:36:43,160 --> 00:36:46,840
Speaker 2: Absolutely clarity, but not every random Iraqi who happened to

817
00:36:46,880 --> 00:36:48,799
Speaker 2: live in the country between two thousand and three and

818
00:36:48,800 --> 00:36:51,480
Speaker 2: two thousand and twenty. It's not it's not a fair

819
00:36:51,560 --> 00:36:54,319
Speaker 2: process that just because you can walk across Mexico, or

820
00:36:54,320 --> 00:36:57,600
Speaker 2: if you're some Chinese or Haitian or whatever that Somali

821
00:36:57,680 --> 00:37:00,239
Speaker 2: or whatever, you can afford a ticket to their that

822
00:37:00,280 --> 00:37:02,759
Speaker 2: puts you ahead of the line. And the reason that

823
00:37:02,800 --> 00:37:05,560
Speaker 2: these are all men is because it is based upon

824
00:37:05,600 --> 00:37:08,000
Speaker 2: a belief that you can come here, you can Western

825
00:37:08,120 --> 00:37:09,160
Speaker 2: Union your money back.

826
00:37:09,239 --> 00:37:11,160
Speaker 3: And most of these countries, just so people.

827
00:37:10,920 --> 00:37:14,800
Speaker 2: Know, huge portions of their economy come from illegal labor

828
00:37:15,080 --> 00:37:19,279
Speaker 2: and Western Union transfers from the United States. They're called remittances.

829
00:37:19,520 --> 00:37:22,520
Speaker 2: There was a huge effort in the Trump years to

830
00:37:22,600 --> 00:37:25,040
Speaker 2: try and tax remittances, which of course the Republicans squash.

831
00:37:25,080 --> 00:37:27,759
Speaker 2: But you know, it's secondary for the conversation right now.

832
00:37:27,960 --> 00:37:30,800
Speaker 2: My only point is that it has to be orderly.

833
00:37:30,880 --> 00:37:33,680
Speaker 2: I think we agree, but on the net benefit, I

834
00:37:33,760 --> 00:37:37,480
Speaker 2: totally disagree that a bunch of people who cannot even

835
00:37:37,480 --> 00:37:39,440
Speaker 2: speak English. The vast majority of these people, some of

836
00:37:39,480 --> 00:37:41,000
Speaker 2: them don't even speak Spanish. I think a lot of

837
00:37:41,000 --> 00:37:41,439
Speaker 2: people don't.

838
00:37:41,800 --> 00:37:43,759
Speaker 1: This may be controversial on the left, Like I don't

839
00:37:43,800 --> 00:37:46,920
Speaker 1: actually have a problem with part of the citizenship process

840
00:37:47,000 --> 00:37:49,720
Speaker 1: being a requirement to speak English. So make that a requirement.

841
00:37:49,760 --> 00:37:51,280
Speaker 1: I mean, that's the thing is you can't say.

842
00:37:51,080 --> 00:37:52,839
Speaker 3: But that's citizen. You can't I'm talking about living.

843
00:37:53,040 --> 00:37:55,560
Speaker 1: But you can't say you have to follow the process,

844
00:37:55,880 --> 00:37:58,440
Speaker 1: but then there is no process to follow, and be

845
00:37:58,560 --> 00:38:00,440
Speaker 1: like also, I'm going to make sure that there is

846
00:38:00,480 --> 00:38:03,040
Speaker 1: no process to follow. I just, you know, I think

847
00:38:03,080 --> 00:38:06,520
Speaker 1: that's fundamentally unfair. And you know, the other thing is

848
00:38:06,800 --> 00:38:09,919
Speaker 1: like there's this assumption that everyone in the world would

849
00:38:09,960 --> 00:38:12,920
Speaker 1: come to the United States of America, and that's just

850
00:38:12,960 --> 00:38:15,640
Speaker 1: not born out by the data. Even among you know,

851
00:38:15,640 --> 00:38:17,759
Speaker 1: there's a lot of focus on the like Central and

852
00:38:17,800 --> 00:38:23,000
Speaker 1: South American migrants who come here. There's far more Venezuelans

853
00:38:23,040 --> 00:38:28,080
Speaker 1: who have migrated to neighboring countries to Venezuela than there

854
00:38:28,080 --> 00:38:31,239
Speaker 1: are who have attempted to come here. People typically they

855
00:38:31,280 --> 00:38:34,000
Speaker 1: want to, you know, if they're under pressure. First of all,

856
00:38:34,040 --> 00:38:36,239
Speaker 1: most people don't want to leave their homes. And I

857
00:38:36,239 --> 00:38:38,520
Speaker 1: think anyone out there could relate to like you like

858
00:38:38,560 --> 00:38:40,760
Speaker 1: where you live, you have a certain level of comfort,

859
00:38:40,800 --> 00:38:43,160
Speaker 1: like you want to stay in your home. So already,

860
00:38:43,280 --> 00:38:45,239
Speaker 1: if you're like I have to migrate, this is a

861
00:38:45,239 --> 00:38:49,640
Speaker 1: pretty extraordinary circumstance. Then most people, the overall majority of

862
00:38:49,760 --> 00:38:52,400
Speaker 1: migrants are looking to go to the countries that are

863
00:38:52,440 --> 00:38:55,160
Speaker 1: most proximate where you know, again, they may have family

864
00:38:55,239 --> 00:38:58,080
Speaker 1: ties or just may feel more comfortable for them or whatever.

865
00:38:58,600 --> 00:39:01,920
Speaker 1: So it's it's not true true that if you you know,

866
00:39:01,960 --> 00:39:04,840
Speaker 1: open things up, that literally everyone in the world would

867
00:39:04,880 --> 00:39:07,040
Speaker 1: want to come here. That's just not the way it works. So,

868
00:39:07,360 --> 00:39:09,000
Speaker 1: you know, to your point about like, oh, it's not

869
00:39:09,080 --> 00:39:12,080
Speaker 1: fair that Iraqis can't come, like okay, so let's get

870
00:39:12,080 --> 00:39:12,960
Speaker 1: a plane tickets.

871
00:39:12,719 --> 00:39:14,359
Speaker 3: Right, but they can't. That's my point.

872
00:39:14,400 --> 00:39:17,919
Speaker 2: And looks Gallup survey twenty twenty one, nine hundred million

873
00:39:17,960 --> 00:39:19,640
Speaker 2: people would migrate to the West if they could.

874
00:39:19,680 --> 00:39:21,640
Speaker 3: Sorry, that's just not going to happen. And this is

875
00:39:21,680 --> 00:39:22,680
Speaker 3: the same thing again.

876
00:39:22,800 --> 00:39:25,640
Speaker 1: I'm not arguing that we should just like let an

877
00:39:25,719 --> 00:39:29,520
Speaker 1: unlimited number in. I just think the focus only on restrictionism.

878
00:39:29,600 --> 00:39:31,919
Speaker 1: And here's The other thing that I'll say is there's

879
00:39:32,080 --> 00:39:36,239
Speaker 1: this assumption that the more cruel and restrictive you are

880
00:39:36,280 --> 00:39:38,719
Speaker 1: at the border, number one, the more orderly it's going

881
00:39:38,800 --> 00:39:41,759
Speaker 1: to be. That's not true because almost definititionly, the more

882
00:39:41,920 --> 00:39:45,759
Speaker 1: that you're squeezing the number of actual legal migrants, the

883
00:39:45,760 --> 00:39:48,239
Speaker 1: more you're going to have illegal migrants. Because these are

884
00:39:48,239 --> 00:39:50,880
Speaker 1: not people who are like casually leaving their homes. They have,

885
00:39:51,400 --> 00:39:53,200
Speaker 1: you know, real reasons and are not going to be

886
00:39:53,640 --> 00:39:58,560
Speaker 1: and haven't shown any deterrence based on the cruelty at

887
00:39:58,600 --> 00:40:01,040
Speaker 1: the border or the restriction policies at the board. I'll

888
00:40:01,080 --> 00:40:05,680
Speaker 1: give you a perfect example. After Trump instituted the child

889
00:40:05,680 --> 00:40:10,000
Speaker 1: separation policy with these dramatically cruel images, I mean some

890
00:40:10,040 --> 00:40:12,880
Speaker 1: of the most like cruel imagery you could possibly imagine

891
00:40:13,000 --> 00:40:17,000
Speaker 1: coming out, the number of migrants actually went up. There

892
00:40:17,040 --> 00:40:20,200
Speaker 1: has been no evidence that the more you crack down

893
00:40:20,200 --> 00:40:22,760
Speaker 1: at the border that it actually serves as a deterrent

894
00:40:22,800 --> 00:40:26,440
Speaker 1: effect and people don't come. That simply has not worked

895
00:40:26,440 --> 00:40:28,400
Speaker 1: out in history. So even if your goal is like

896
00:40:28,480 --> 00:40:32,560
Speaker 1: let's keep people away, the restrictionist direction isn't effective for that.

897
00:40:32,600 --> 00:40:34,360
Speaker 2: The counter to that is that the reason they started

898
00:40:34,400 --> 00:40:36,239
Speaker 2: coming back is because Trump caved and he actually went

899
00:40:36,280 --> 00:40:39,120
Speaker 2: away from family separation and he basically reverted back to

900
00:40:39,160 --> 00:40:41,960
Speaker 2: the original policy. The one reason where the one time

901
00:40:42,000 --> 00:40:43,919
Speaker 2: it worked was during the pandemic when we didn't allow

902
00:40:43,960 --> 00:40:46,239
Speaker 2: people to cross illegally period and you have to stay

903
00:40:46,239 --> 00:40:49,080
Speaker 2: in Mexico, which I support that policy if you that.

904
00:40:49,120 --> 00:40:51,560
Speaker 1: Didn't mean that people weren't coming, It just meant that

905
00:40:51,560 --> 00:40:53,399
Speaker 1: they were being dealt with at a different point. Yeah,

906
00:40:53,440 --> 00:40:55,440
Speaker 1: and that's right, and I you know, the remain in

907
00:40:55,480 --> 00:40:58,360
Speaker 1: Mexico policy have some issues with, but the general principle

908
00:40:58,560 --> 00:41:02,960
Speaker 1: of we should have of structures and bureaucracy in place

909
00:41:03,440 --> 00:41:06,080
Speaker 1: so that the whole of the issue isn't being dealt

910
00:41:06,080 --> 00:41:08,560
Speaker 1: with at the border, I do think actually makes sense.

911
00:41:09,040 --> 00:41:09,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, I agree.

912
00:41:09,840 --> 00:41:12,040
Speaker 2: There's actually was a Trump policy at the time which

913
00:41:12,080 --> 00:41:15,040
Speaker 2: Biden did away with, which encourage people to apply for

914
00:41:15,080 --> 00:41:18,000
Speaker 2: asylum in their home country at the US embassy if

915
00:41:18,000 --> 00:41:21,400
Speaker 2: they wanted to. Unfortunately, that policy was done away with,

916
00:41:21,520 --> 00:41:22,080
Speaker 2: which I don't think.

917
00:41:22,120 --> 00:41:24,879
Speaker 1: There was also a Biden policy that would use this

918
00:41:25,080 --> 00:41:28,080
Speaker 1: CBP one app or something like that that would allow

919
00:41:28,080 --> 00:41:31,080
Speaker 1: people to apply in their home countries, which also was

920
00:41:31,120 --> 00:41:34,360
Speaker 1: incredibly effective and which Republicans have. You know, one of

921
00:41:34,400 --> 00:41:36,160
Speaker 1: the things that they're citing as a problem here is

922
00:41:36,200 --> 00:41:38,680
Speaker 1: that it would enable that program to continue.

923
00:41:38,719 --> 00:41:40,400
Speaker 3: I am not saying the Republicans have been perfect on

924
00:41:40,440 --> 00:41:40,880
Speaker 3: this issue.

925
00:41:40,920 --> 00:41:43,799
Speaker 2: In fact, they've been complicit and in many cases have

926
00:41:43,840 --> 00:41:46,520
Speaker 2: embedded this because it's good for big business. Let's you know,

927
00:41:46,680 --> 00:41:48,680
Speaker 2: in terms of the wage theory. So that's what I

928
00:41:48,719 --> 00:41:51,239
Speaker 2: would say. I am not, you know, a Republican stand here.

929
00:41:51,280 --> 00:41:54,120
Speaker 2: I'm purely representing the interests I guess of mister Sager

930
00:41:54,120 --> 00:41:57,640
Speaker 2: and Jetty from my Again, I think philosophical difference is

931
00:41:57,680 --> 00:42:00,799
Speaker 2: that I think mass illegal migration is bad. I think

932
00:42:00,880 --> 00:42:04,400
Speaker 2: mass migration net is also bad for the United States.

933
00:42:04,520 --> 00:42:07,640
Speaker 2: Foreign born population is far too high. We need a long,

934
00:42:07,840 --> 00:42:11,560
Speaker 2: long period of assimilation and of a strong socialization net policy.

935
00:42:11,840 --> 00:42:15,040
Speaker 2: And I firmly believe that overall that this type of

936
00:42:15,160 --> 00:42:17,959
Speaker 2: unmitigated control and all that actually does it a great

937
00:42:17,960 --> 00:42:20,799
Speaker 2: disservice to people like my family and others who came

938
00:42:20,840 --> 00:42:23,400
Speaker 2: to the country legally, and it is an unfair policy.

939
00:42:23,480 --> 00:42:25,839
Speaker 1: You have the ability to and your family had the money.

940
00:42:25,880 --> 00:42:27,000
Speaker 3: That's right, that's right, and.

941
00:42:27,200 --> 00:42:29,560
Speaker 1: That's not on how was that fair? But how is

942
00:42:29,600 --> 00:42:31,719
Speaker 1: that fair? Though? Because you had the resources to do it,

943
00:42:31,760 --> 00:42:33,480
Speaker 1: and you happen to be from a country where there

944
00:42:33,520 --> 00:42:35,600
Speaker 1: was a possibility of getting in that you're able to.

945
00:42:35,719 --> 00:42:38,640
Speaker 2: Well, first of all, nobody owes anybody, so in terms

946
00:42:38,680 --> 00:42:41,000
Speaker 2: of policy, it makes sense that you probably want people

947
00:42:41,040 --> 00:42:43,319
Speaker 2: who are higher skilled, who already speak English and who

948
00:42:43,360 --> 00:42:46,440
Speaker 2: are well educated, so they can more firmly and easily

949
00:42:46,440 --> 00:42:47,760
Speaker 2: fit into the overall economy.

950
00:42:48,080 --> 00:42:50,120
Speaker 3: That's number with that. Well, but that's a difference.

951
00:42:50,160 --> 00:42:52,200
Speaker 2: And I don't think anybody has a right to come here,

952
00:42:52,239 --> 00:42:53,960
Speaker 2: and in fact, my net is that nobody has a right.

953
00:42:54,120 --> 00:42:57,600
Speaker 1: Here's what I would say. Yeah, I do think mass

954
00:42:57,880 --> 00:43:01,920
Speaker 1: illegal migration is a problem. Yes, not knowing who's coming in,

955
00:43:02,360 --> 00:43:04,759
Speaker 1: having chaos at the border, having people who are being

956
00:43:04,800 --> 00:43:07,959
Speaker 1: paid under the table, and who could you know because

957
00:43:08,000 --> 00:43:10,920
Speaker 1: they're working in the shadows. That can depress wages, No

958
00:43:10,960 --> 00:43:13,560
Speaker 1: doubt that that is that is for sure an issue.

959
00:43:14,800 --> 00:43:19,719
Speaker 1: Having a you know, significant level of legal migration where

960
00:43:19,760 --> 00:43:22,399
Speaker 1: people have a path where you can put the requireent Okay,

961
00:43:22,400 --> 00:43:25,080
Speaker 1: they have to speak English or whatever. I think that

962
00:43:25,280 --> 00:43:28,920
Speaker 1: is net and throughout history has shown to be net

963
00:43:29,000 --> 00:43:31,960
Speaker 1: beneficial to America. I think it's a core part of

964
00:43:32,000 --> 00:43:36,520
Speaker 1: why America has been, as you know, economically successful and

965
00:43:36,640 --> 00:43:40,600
Speaker 1: as vibrant and thriving and innovative as it has been

966
00:43:40,960 --> 00:43:44,560
Speaker 1: throughout history. So I just you know, and there isn't

967
00:43:44,800 --> 00:43:51,000
Speaker 1: isn't evidence that legal immigrants negatively impact wages for anyone.

968
00:43:51,000 --> 00:43:54,000
Speaker 1: As I said before, so that as a population, they

969
00:43:54,040 --> 00:43:58,440
Speaker 1: tend to be over overall more law abiding, that's what

970
00:43:58,480 --> 00:44:00,680
Speaker 1: the numbers show. Tend to be some of the hardest

971
00:44:00,680 --> 00:44:03,600
Speaker 1: working people in the entire country. And actually, you know,

972
00:44:03,719 --> 00:44:05,960
Speaker 1: oftentimes tend to have a lot of conservative values that

973
00:44:06,000 --> 00:44:08,600
Speaker 1: Republicans are excited to, you know, grow about and try

974
00:44:08,640 --> 00:44:11,480
Speaker 1: to win over when it's convenient for them politically.

975
00:44:11,360 --> 00:44:14,000
Speaker 2: No question, You're right. I think immigration is obviously been

976
00:44:14,040 --> 00:44:16,760
Speaker 2: a net positive to America. Wouldn't be here without it, yeah,

977
00:44:16,800 --> 00:44:19,439
Speaker 2: throughout the past. But I would also again, I would

978
00:44:19,440 --> 00:44:23,319
Speaker 2: say that periods of great migration were also followed by

979
00:44:23,360 --> 00:44:26,040
Speaker 2: periods of great chuckdowns, and I think there was deep

980
00:44:26,080 --> 00:44:29,480
Speaker 2: wisdom in that because it allowed for assimilation, it allowed

981
00:44:29,480 --> 00:44:32,960
Speaker 2: for the benefit of that industrialization. Before we had overall

982
00:44:33,040 --> 00:44:36,240
Speaker 2: changes to our laws, the Immigration Naturalization Act of nineteen

983
00:44:36,280 --> 00:44:38,239
Speaker 2: sixty five, which by and large has not changed and

984
00:44:38,280 --> 00:44:40,680
Speaker 2: I think dramatically should change. We currently have a chain

985
00:44:40,760 --> 00:44:42,440
Speaker 2: migration based system where if you happen to have a

986
00:44:42,440 --> 00:44:44,560
Speaker 2: relative here, it's easier to migrate, which is nuts because

987
00:44:44,560 --> 00:44:47,240
Speaker 2: it al should be merit based, which is what I support.

988
00:44:47,320 --> 00:44:48,920
Speaker 1: That's nuts. I think it makes sense that if you

989
00:44:49,040 --> 00:44:50,920
Speaker 1: go that I mean this was again like a tradition

990
00:44:51,120 --> 00:44:53,160
Speaker 1: in America is if you know people who were in

991
00:44:53,200 --> 00:44:55,080
Speaker 1: your family come and then they sort of set up

992
00:44:55,120 --> 00:44:56,799
Speaker 1: and then you have some a support system that.

993
00:44:56,800 --> 00:44:58,399
Speaker 3: Just com is tied and zoo good.

994
00:44:58,480 --> 00:44:59,840
Speaker 1: I mean, but I think, I mean to me it

995
00:44:59,840 --> 00:45:01,320
Speaker 1: ma some sense, sure.

996
00:45:01,480 --> 00:45:03,359
Speaker 3: I mean, look, it has its proponents. That's why it's

997
00:45:03,360 --> 00:45:04,919
Speaker 3: been the law of the land for the last fifty years.

998
00:45:05,200 --> 00:45:06,799
Speaker 2: What I would say is, I think we should move,

999
00:45:06,880 --> 00:45:09,799
Speaker 2: like Australia, Canada and many other Western developed countries to

1000
00:45:09,840 --> 00:45:12,520
Speaker 2: a dramatically merit based immigration system with a point based

1001
00:45:12,560 --> 00:45:15,040
Speaker 2: in terms of the criteria. We've talked about being able

1002
00:45:15,080 --> 00:45:16,960
Speaker 2: to speak English.

1003
00:45:16,160 --> 00:45:16,600
Speaker 3: Et cetera.

1004
00:45:16,680 --> 00:45:19,120
Speaker 2: But that belies the fact that it's not going to

1005
00:45:19,160 --> 00:45:21,879
Speaker 2: be fair. It's not fair because immigration shouldn't be fair.

1006
00:45:21,960 --> 00:45:24,520
Speaker 2: Not everybody should have an equal right to immigrate or

1007
00:45:24,520 --> 00:45:26,040
Speaker 2: go anywhere, and I don't have an equal right to

1008
00:45:26,080 --> 00:45:28,920
Speaker 2: set foot in any country. Whenever I go through passport control,

1009
00:45:29,080 --> 00:45:30,880
Speaker 2: any country in the world can deny me if they

1010
00:45:30,920 --> 00:45:31,200
Speaker 2: want to.

1011
00:45:31,280 --> 00:45:32,759
Speaker 3: I don't care. I don't have a problem. But you know,

1012
00:45:32,760 --> 00:45:33,919
Speaker 3: the Poland or whatever.

1013
00:45:33,960 --> 00:45:37,439
Speaker 1: You know, the reality is, because we are relatively well

1014
00:45:37,480 --> 00:45:40,720
Speaker 1: off in American we pretty much can go wherever we want. Mostly,

1015
00:45:40,760 --> 00:45:43,239
Speaker 1: we pretty much can go whatever we want. So what

1016
00:45:43,280 --> 00:45:46,160
Speaker 1: you're advocating for is a policy We're basically like, rich

1017
00:45:46,200 --> 00:45:49,319
Speaker 1: people can come and poor people can't. And I, you know,

1018
00:45:49,520 --> 00:45:52,000
Speaker 1: even outside of the fairshi, I don't actually think that

1019
00:45:52,000 --> 00:45:55,799
Speaker 1: that is the ideal migration system because again, I think

1020
00:45:55,840 --> 00:45:58,160
Speaker 1: it's classes. I think it ignores the skills and the

1021
00:45:58,200 --> 00:46:00,359
Speaker 1: abilities that you know, people who happen to have been

1022
00:46:00,440 --> 00:46:02,759
Speaker 1: born in the wrong country and to the wrong set

1023
00:46:02,760 --> 00:46:04,920
Speaker 1: of parents that they can bring to the table. And

1024
00:46:04,960 --> 00:46:09,120
Speaker 1: I think that's demonstrated by the strength of America through

1025
00:46:09,480 --> 00:46:10,880
Speaker 1: migration throughout our history.

1026
00:46:11,000 --> 00:46:13,960
Speaker 2: My care for the lapoor and the lower class extends

1027
00:46:14,000 --> 00:46:16,840
Speaker 2: to the borders of the United States. For everybody beyond that,

1028
00:46:17,680 --> 00:46:19,440
Speaker 2: I hope for the best for you, but it's not

1029
00:46:19,520 --> 00:46:22,800
Speaker 2: my problem. And that can sound harsh if you want,

1030
00:46:23,040 --> 00:46:25,359
Speaker 2: But I've seen enough of the world to know that

1031
00:46:25,400 --> 00:46:28,160
Speaker 2: there is so much suffering that is out there that

1032
00:46:28,200 --> 00:46:31,479
Speaker 2: there's absolutely nothing I can do about it. My parents

1033
00:46:31,520 --> 00:46:34,080
Speaker 2: are from India. I feel no obligation to street urchins

1034
00:46:34,200 --> 00:46:37,000
Speaker 2: in India. I think that's the Indian government's problem. I

1035
00:46:37,000 --> 00:46:38,759
Speaker 2: think it's really sad. I've seen a lot of them,

1036
00:46:38,800 --> 00:46:42,400
Speaker 2: you know, in horrible Sanantari conditions. But I believe that

1037
00:46:42,400 --> 00:46:44,960
Speaker 2: the number is so vast and so grand that there's

1038
00:46:45,320 --> 00:46:47,520
Speaker 2: a certain hubris to the extent that we can think

1039
00:46:47,640 --> 00:46:49,080
Speaker 2: that we can extend those rights and.

1040
00:46:49,040 --> 00:46:50,920
Speaker 1: Benefits to And that's where you and I are just

1041
00:46:50,960 --> 00:46:54,040
Speaker 1: fundamentally different, because the fact that we can't solve every

1042
00:46:54,040 --> 00:46:56,680
Speaker 1: problem for every person in the world does not harden

1043
00:46:56,719 --> 00:47:00,000
Speaker 1: my heart to being able to do what we can

1044
00:47:00,080 --> 00:47:03,640
Speaker 1: hand within the bounds of things that again are actually

1045
00:47:03,800 --> 00:47:06,680
Speaker 1: good for our country and have been shown to be

1046
00:47:06,840 --> 00:47:08,839
Speaker 1: good for our country over time. And the last thing

1047
00:47:08,840 --> 00:47:10,920
Speaker 1: that I'll just go back to. It doesn't make any

1048
00:47:11,000 --> 00:47:14,600
Speaker 1: sense to me that when New Yorkers are flying to Texas,

1049
00:47:14,640 --> 00:47:16,920
Speaker 1: oh my god, this is terrible for New York. But

1050
00:47:17,000 --> 00:47:22,319
Speaker 1: when migrants who again over time, law abiding, more law

1051
00:47:22,320 --> 00:47:26,560
Speaker 1: abiding than the native born population, hard working, have gone

1052
00:47:26,600 --> 00:47:28,480
Speaker 1: through hell in order to get here, are going to

1053
00:47:28,560 --> 00:47:31,160
Speaker 1: probably be way more patriotic than your average American. But

1054
00:47:31,200 --> 00:47:33,600
Speaker 1: when they come suddenly it's a disaster and it's terrible

1055
00:47:33,640 --> 00:47:34,960
Speaker 1: for the say, it doesn't make it. It just doesn't make

1056
00:47:35,000 --> 00:47:35,400
Speaker 1: sense to me.

1057
00:47:35,520 --> 00:47:37,719
Speaker 3: Well, public opinion doesn't agree with you. I can at

1058
00:47:37,760 --> 00:47:38,279
Speaker 3: least say that.

1059
00:47:38,320 --> 00:47:40,000
Speaker 1: I don't know about that. I think there are a

1060
00:47:40,000 --> 00:47:42,440
Speaker 1: lot of Americans who are very committed to the basic

1061
00:47:42,480 --> 00:47:45,799
Speaker 1: concept of America as a nation of immigrants, who you know.

1062
00:47:45,840 --> 00:47:48,359
Speaker 1: I mean, this is again, Biden ran on this last

1063
00:47:48,360 --> 00:47:51,200
Speaker 1: time around, and he won the presidency, and I think

1064
00:47:51,200 --> 00:47:53,920
Speaker 1: it's been I think it's foolish for him to completely

1065
00:47:53,960 --> 00:47:57,920
Speaker 1: abandon the more inclusive messaging, not you know, any sort

1066
00:47:57,920 --> 00:48:01,080
Speaker 1: of radical open borders thing, but the more inclusive messaging,

1067
00:48:01,480 --> 00:48:03,920
Speaker 1: values based messaging that helped him win the White House.

1068
00:48:03,920 --> 00:48:05,280
Speaker 1: I think it's a dramatic political mistake.

1069
00:48:05,320 --> 00:48:05,640
Speaker 3: We'll see.

1070
00:48:05,640 --> 00:48:07,880
Speaker 2: We've been going for an hour, I believe, so if

1071
00:48:07,880 --> 00:48:09,480
Speaker 2: people want to leave a comment.

1072
00:48:09,239 --> 00:48:12,719
Speaker 3: And I know, I hope that it was worth the time.

1073
00:48:13,400 --> 00:48:14,320
Speaker 3: I think it was valuable.

1074
00:48:14,360 --> 00:48:16,360
Speaker 2: I think people should be able to hear these different

1075
00:48:16,360 --> 00:48:17,000
Speaker 2: perspectives