Speaker 1: People love to play the blame game in a relationship,
Speaker 1: and we're projecting all the time. We'll blame a partner
Speaker 1: for not making us feel enough when not enough is
Speaker 1: how we felt entering the relationship.
Speaker 2: Welcome to the one you feed throughout time. Great thinkers
Speaker 2: have recognized the importance of the thoughts we have, quotes
Speaker 2: like garbage in, garbage out, or you are what you
Speaker 2: think ring true. And yet for many of us, our
Speaker 2: thoughts don't strengthen or empower us. We tend toward negativity,
Speaker 2: self pity, jealousy, or fear. We see what we don't
Speaker 2: have instead of what we do. We think things that
Speaker 2: hold us back and dampen our spirit. But it's not
Speaker 2: just about thinking our actions matter. It takes conscious, consistent,
Speaker 2: and creative effort to make a life worth living. This
Speaker 2: podcast is about how other people keep themselves moving in
Speaker 2: the right direction, feed their good wolf.
Speaker 3: What if the way you see yourself, the stories you
Speaker 3: tell about who you are, aren't just shaping your relationships
Speaker 3: but sabotaging them. We walk through life convinced that our
Speaker 3: version of reality is the reality. But what if it's not.
Speaker 3: What if the reason you keep ending up in the
Speaker 3: same arguments the same heartbreaks, the same lonely places isn't
Speaker 3: because of what's happening to you, but because of the
Speaker 3: narratives running inside you. Today's guest, Jillian Tareki, is a
Speaker 3: relationship coach who spent two decades helping people rewrite their
Speaker 3: emotional stories, and in this conversation, she says something that
Speaker 3: really stopped me. She says, we blame a partner for
Speaker 3: not making us feel enough when not enough is how
Speaker 3: we felt entering the relationship. Yes, sit with that one
Speaker 3: for a second. In this episode, we're breaking down the
Speaker 3: mental loops that keep us stuck in unhealthy dynamics, whether
Speaker 3: that's in our romantic relationships, our friendships, or even with ourselves.
Speaker 3: We'll talk about self awareness, accountability, and why the thoughts
Speaker 3: we don't question have the most power over us. So,
Speaker 3: if you've ever wondered why you keep attracting the same
Speaker 3: kinds of relationships or why your inner critic always has
Speaker 3: a microphone stick around, I'm Eric Zimmer. This is the
Speaker 3: one you feed and this one might just change how
Speaker 3: you see yourself and everyone around you. Hi, Jillian, Welcome
Speaker 3: to the show.
Speaker 1: Hi Eric, so glad to be here. Thanks for having me.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm excited to have you on. You have a
Speaker 3: new podcast called Jillian on Love, which is all about relationships,
Speaker 3: and I'm excited to dive into your work and relationships
Speaker 3: and communication and lots of different things. But before we
Speaker 3: do that, we'll start, like we always do, with the parable.
Speaker 3: There's a grandparent who's talking with their grandchild and they say,
Speaker 3: in life, there are two wolves inside of us that
Speaker 3: are always at battle. One is a good wolf, which
Speaker 3: represents things like kindness and bravery and love, and the
Speaker 3: others a bad wolf, which represents things like greed and
Speaker 3: hatred and fear. And the grandchild stops and thinks about
Speaker 3: it for a second and looks up at their grandparents says, well,
Speaker 3: which one wins? And the grandparent says, the one you feed.
Speaker 3: So I'd like to start off by asking you what
Speaker 3: that parable means to you in your life and in
Speaker 3: the work that you do.
Speaker 1: Wow, there's so much I can say about this right now.
Speaker 1: I think that in many ways, our minds are like battlefields,
Speaker 1: and if we believe all our thoughts, which is what
Speaker 1: we usually do, we suffer immensely. But if we were
Speaker 1: to not believe all our thoughts, and you know, as
Speaker 1: corny as it sounds, but listen more to our hearts,
Speaker 1: our instincts, or intuition, however you want to call it,
Speaker 1: then we will lead much more content lives. I also
Speaker 1: think that there's darkness that lives inside of all of us,
Speaker 1: and that darkness is reflected by the quality of our thoughts,
Speaker 1: of a lot of our thoughts, not all our thoughts.
Speaker 1: You know, the mind, like I said, can be a battlefield.
Speaker 1: It can be a very dark place. And if we
Speaker 1: were to which we do, this is what we do.
Speaker 1: Believe a thought which then turns into a narrative, which
Speaker 1: then becomes a chapter, which then becomes a story, which
Speaker 1: then becomes an entire saga. We can believe that the
Speaker 1: stories and the sagas that tell us that, you know,
Speaker 1: we suck, or we're not good enough, or that person's
Speaker 1: not good enough, you know, playing the blame game. Or
Speaker 1: we can believe a story that is looking at the
Speaker 1: same situation or the same person or the same circumstance
Speaker 1: through a different lens and see a completely different story.
Speaker 1: And we decide which story or which narrative we're going
Speaker 1: to give more energy to. So the feeding is our
Speaker 1: attention and our energy. That's how I see it. And
Speaker 1: as far as the work that I do, I'm always
Speaker 1: helping people do basically one of two things. Overcome the
Speaker 1: negative stories and thoughts that they have about themselves, and
Speaker 1: also overcoming in negative thoughts and stories they have about
Speaker 1: their partner if they're in a relationship, or about men,
Speaker 1: or about women, or about just relationships in general. So
Speaker 1: I'm always helping people mitigate the dark and the light
Speaker 1: sides within themselves. And I think that that's really the
Speaker 1: perpetual battle. It's almost like the cana and Abel that
Speaker 1: lives within all of us.
Speaker 3: Yep.
Speaker 1: So that's how I see it.
Speaker 3: Listener, as you're listening, what resonated with you in that?
Speaker 3: I think a lot of us have some ideas of
Speaker 3: things that we can do to feed our good wolf.
Speaker 3: And here's a good tip to make it more likely
Speaker 3: that you do it. It can be really helpful to
Speaker 3: reflect right before you do that thing on why you
Speaker 3: want to do it. Our brains are always making a
Speaker 3: calculation of what neuroscientists would call reward value. Basically, is
Speaker 3: this thing worth doing? And so when you're getting ready
Speaker 3: to do this thing that you want to do to
Speaker 3: feed your good Wolf. Reflecting on why actually helps to
Speaker 3: make the reward value on that higher and makes it
Speaker 3: more likely that you're going to do that. For example,
Speaker 3: if what you're trying to do is exercise, right before
Speaker 3: you're getting ready to exercise, it can be useful to
Speaker 3: remind yourself of why. For example, I want to exercise
Speaker 3: because it makes my mental and emotional health better today.
Speaker 3: If you'd like a step by step guide for how
Speaker 3: you can easily build new habits that feed your good wolf,
Speaker 3: go to Goodwolf dot me, slash change and join the
Speaker 3: free masterclass. I'm struck by you saying that, you know,
Speaker 3: we have a thought that becomes I don't remember your
Speaker 3: exact sequence, but a thought that becomes a narrative, which
Speaker 3: becomes a chapter, which becomes a book, which becomes you
Speaker 3: a whole series of books. Right, this idea of how
Speaker 3: in the Buddhist tradition they think the word for this
Speaker 3: is papancha. Right, you start with a thought like popcorn.
Speaker 3: But the more we think these things, the more embedded
Speaker 3: they become. And it is very true that a lot
Speaker 3: of our dynamic in relationship is driven by what the
Speaker 3: beliefs we have about ourselves and about other people to
Speaker 3: your point, whether it's about men in general or women
Speaker 3: in general or our specific partner, you know, it does
Speaker 3: get very embedded, and trying to determine the difference between Okay,
Speaker 3: I'm actually seeing the truth here and looking out for
Speaker 3: myself and taking care of myself, or I am imposing
Speaker 3: a story that's not true on a relationship is difficult
Speaker 3: to sort out.
Speaker 1: I think, oh, yeah, it's very difficult. Hence why people
Speaker 1: hire coaches exactly because we're objective and we can look
Speaker 1: at it. But that being said, I think that it's
Speaker 1: very illuminating when we recognize in ourselves, whether that's through
Speaker 1: the help of someone else or not, when our minds
Speaker 1: really get the best of us, and when we get
Speaker 1: caught in this whole story. Man, how many times have you, like,
Speaker 1: I mean, I know I've been in this position many
Speaker 1: times where it's like, maybe I'll be like not in
Speaker 1: a great state, right, maybe i will be insecure about
Speaker 1: something that's going on in my life, or I'm tired, right,
Speaker 1: I'm just not like I'm not feeling great psychically, emotionally, physically,
Speaker 1: and then someone will look at me a certain way
Speaker 1: and I'll interpret it to be like oh, they don't
Speaker 1: like me anymore, or they're thinking this, or they're thinking that.
Speaker 1: And then we go into like you said, like the
Speaker 1: popcorn going out, say this is within the context of
Speaker 1: a relationship, and then you don't communicate about it, and
Speaker 1: then you start to stew in your own soup of
Speaker 1: a story about it, and really that interpretation that you
Speaker 1: had was totally wrong. We're actually so off the mark.
Speaker 1: And I think that when we have that recognition of, oh,
Speaker 1: my god, my mind, like I really create so many stories,
Speaker 1: that's a huge breakthrough moment because that's when we can
Speaker 1: actually for ourselves be able to mitigate when our minds
Speaker 1: are getting the best of us. It's like, Okay, hold on,
Speaker 1: I might be in a story right now, I might
Speaker 1: be totally misreading this right now, what is this really about?
Speaker 1: So that's ultimately what we have to do, have to do,
Speaker 1: have to become very practiced and skilled at doing especially
Speaker 1: if you want to be in a romantic relationship, like
Speaker 1: you better really work on that skill.
Speaker 3: Yep, yep. Two things come to mind. One is there
Speaker 3: was a communication program style book called Crucial Communications. It
Speaker 3: came out number of years ago. I loved it, but
Speaker 3: there was one thing about it that I thought was
Speaker 3: really great, and what it said basically was, when it
Speaker 3: comes to what your partner did, you want to start
Speaker 3: by what could actually be captured on a camera or
Speaker 3: on a tape recorder, What would anybody observe in it
Speaker 3: actually see everything past that? Now you're in the land
Speaker 3: of interpretation, right, And I think that's a really great
Speaker 3: way of saying, Okay, well, the fact is he didn't
Speaker 3: take out the trash, right like I see it. I
Speaker 3: can see it on camera. The trash did not go out.
Speaker 1: Okay.
Speaker 3: Now from there, I'm going to go into interpretations like
Speaker 3: he's so forgetful and oh, no big deal, or she
Speaker 3: just doesn't respect me and care about me. I mean right.
Speaker 3: We branch off from there. And then the second thing
Speaker 3: that came to my mind is you were talking is
Speaker 3: I was thinking about how and I've been here that
Speaker 3: by the time a couple decides they need help, there
Speaker 3: has been such an entrenchment of these stories and patterns.
Speaker 3: It's like, if we were to start working on that
Speaker 3: not telling ourselves stories way earlier in the game, it's
Speaker 3: really hard to fix. And I'm in a relationship now
Speaker 3: that is really wonderful and we've done that. From the beginning.
Speaker 3: We both were very clear, but I've been in other
Speaker 3: relationships where we didn't and by the time we were like, oh,
Speaker 3: this thing's kind of broken, right, it was so hard
Speaker 3: to not believe the story, and our dynamic reinforced it right,
Speaker 3: and our dynamic reinforced it over and over.
Speaker 1: That's spot on. Sometimes the web is so incredibly complicated,
Speaker 1: and like you said, sometimes it is about not taking
Speaker 1: out the trash. Oftentimes the trash is a metaphor for
Speaker 1: years of hurt and maybe feeling slighted or betrayed, or
Speaker 1: unheard or unseen, and it can be Yeah, it can
Speaker 1: be incredibly tricky to unravel, and I think when it
Speaker 1: comes to that kind of situation, that's when you really
Speaker 1: need third party help. You said that you and your
Speaker 1: partner do this sort of preemptively, which is great, and
Speaker 1: that's part of the reason why I do what I do,
Speaker 1: is that, whether you're single or not, you want to
Speaker 1: go into a relationship with as many tools in your
Speaker 1: toolbox as you possibly can have so that you can
Speaker 1: start to work preemptively. Because people they get annoyed, they
Speaker 1: don't say anything, or they say anything and maybe it's
Speaker 1: not met with the response that they're hoping from their partners.
Speaker 1: So then they learn, well, next time, I'm just not
Speaker 1: going to say anything whatever. Then they build a whole
Speaker 1: lot of resentment. And then once you build resentment, there's
Speaker 1: a lot of resistance. Right. So it's like those couples
Speaker 1: where it's gotten to the point where it's broken. They're
Speaker 1: in such a state of resistance towards one another, like
Speaker 1: they're not in any way opening their hearts. They're not open.
Speaker 1: Everything is like a big stop sign. There's like a
Speaker 1: stop sign in front of their heart. Their minds they
Speaker 1: are like, I do not enter right, And so they
Speaker 1: become so resistant to one another. And the only way
Speaker 1: that a couple would be able to find themselves to
Speaker 1: find each other again is if they really really wanted to,
Speaker 1: and then if they got third party help. But you
Speaker 1: really have to want to, but it's hard because you know,
Speaker 1: usually these couples they come into the room and even
Speaker 1: though they're not saying this, what their subconscious is saying
Speaker 1: for sure is you know, fix them, Fix them so
Speaker 1: I can continue to be in a relationship with them.
Speaker 4: Ye change them so I don't have to leave this Yep,
Speaker 4: and it's always the biggest and roughest pill to swallow
Speaker 4: when it's like, no, actually, the problem's also you totally.
Speaker 3: And that's something you talk about in your first episode
Speaker 3: of your show. Is this idea that the common thread
Speaker 3: through all of our past relationships is us say a
Speaker 3: little more about that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So sometimes you'll be in a relationship with someone
Speaker 1: who like just quite frankly sucks. But it's not your pattern. Like,
Speaker 1: you don't have a pattern of just having tough relationships.
Speaker 1: You don't have a pattern of like dating people who
Speaker 1: are mean to you. You just have you know, you
Speaker 1: have a one off, you know, and it doesn't last
Speaker 1: that long. Okay, maybe in that situation there's always something
Speaker 1: you can find responsibility for. But in that situation you
Speaker 1: get be like, Okay, I like chemistry, get the best
Speaker 1: of me. I got attracted whatever I was going through
Speaker 1: a hard time, I was lonely, I you know, lowered
Speaker 1: my standard and here we are. But the truth of
Speaker 1: the matter is, even if you've been in a relationship
Speaker 1: or a marriage for thirty years, anything that's not working
Speaker 1: in that relationship has one hundred percent to do with
Speaker 1: each person. Yep, it's not even fifty to fifty, it's
Speaker 1: one hundred percent. And then if you have a pattern,
Speaker 1: and like let's say you're chronically single, or you keep
Speaker 1: dating the wrong people, you keep having these hurtful situations.
Speaker 1: You can continue to blame men, you can continue to
Speaker 1: blame women. You can continue to blame your mom or
Speaker 1: your dad, you can blame your childhood all you want.
Speaker 1: It's not that you would necessarily be wrong, but that's
Speaker 1: not going to get you what you want.
Speaker 3: I love that change. That's really good. Yeah, I love
Speaker 3: that idea. It's not that it's wrong, it's just not
Speaker 3: a very useful strategy. It's not very skillful strategy, right,
Speaker 3: And recognizing the harms that have been done to us,
Speaker 3: the things that have impacted us, is useful to recognize
Speaker 3: what they are, to unlearn them. But to your point,
Speaker 3: you know it can't end there.
Speaker 1: No, it can't end there. And you know it's interesting
Speaker 1: because I've I've worked with so many different people. You know,
Speaker 1: some people I've worked with, like, for example, they'll just
Speaker 1: keep dating the mentally ill drug addict who doesn't do
Speaker 1: any work on themselves, like isn't in therapy, isn't medicated
Speaker 1: for that isn't actually like on a good path, you know,
Speaker 1: and then people will think, oh, you know, poor you.
Speaker 1: You're in these relationships with these horrible people, and it's like, no,
Speaker 1: when you look more carefully, like most quote unquote toxic
Speaker 1: unhealthy relationships, both people are behaving pretty badly within it.
Speaker 1: So you know, they'll keep dating that person and then
Speaker 1: they'll they'll make the discovery. Like in therapy. You know,
Speaker 1: your mom had postpartum when she had you, so she
Speaker 1: was depressed for the first you know, two years of
Speaker 1: your life, which is so important, and she was an alcoholic.
Speaker 1: So you make these like connections and hopefully, if you're
Speaker 1: with a skilled enough therapist, you're actually working to make
Speaker 1: peace with your past, not just to understand your past,
Speaker 1: not to just have insight into your trauma, not just
Speaker 1: to be aware of your trauma, but to actually make
Speaker 1: peace with it. But then those people then come to
Speaker 1: me because they're like, Okay, I know all this, but
Speaker 1: I'm still doing this, and it's like, okay, well, then
Speaker 1: you need to take responsibility. You keep choosing them. It's
Speaker 1: not mom's fault anymore. You know, you're not a traumatized
Speaker 1: little child anymore. You are attracted to them, and you
Speaker 1: have to recondition yourself to be attracted to other people.
Speaker 1: You have to make it absolutely non negotiable. They don't
Speaker 1: date anyone. Let's say I'm just using as an example,
Speaker 1: who's a drug addict or something like that. And the
Speaker 1: people who really invested their time and their emotions and
Speaker 1: their money in themselves and in me and our work together,
Speaker 1: they take my advice and guess what, they're all happy now.
Speaker 1: But most people, actually, no, that's not true. Not most,
Speaker 1: but a fair amount of people will they don't want
Speaker 1: to do what it takes to change, so they keep
Speaker 1: repeating the same cycle with the same kind of partner,
Speaker 1: feeling more and more like they'll either think, oh, there's
Speaker 1: just something wrong with them, or just to bring this
Speaker 1: full circle to the narratives that we have in our head,
Speaker 1: they'll just chalk it up to I'm damaged, I'm broken.
Speaker 1: This is how I am ye. And it's like both
Speaker 1: are cop outs, and because taking responsibility for your love
Speaker 1: life is not about blaming yourself, because then you're not
Speaker 1: actually taking responsibility. If you're like I'm broken, that's literally
Speaker 1: you saying I'm not going to do anything about this,
Speaker 1: and So my job and what my passion is is
Speaker 1: to help people to feel empowered, to understand that they
Speaker 1: can make a change. If it means you have to
Speaker 1: like date different types of people, or a lot of
Speaker 1: people have to learn how to love themselves so that
Speaker 1: they can actually be with someone who wants to love
Speaker 1: them too, because if you don't love yourself, you're just
Speaker 1: going to push that person away.
Speaker 3: And I think what you're saying there is really important
Speaker 3: is we can go to therapy and get a lot
Speaker 3: of insight. And I really like what you say. It's
Speaker 3: not just understanding why, it's making peace with the past,
Speaker 3: healing what we can can from the past. My experience
Speaker 3: is even after that work is done, there is still
Speaker 3: the moment of the thing happening. So the example I
Speaker 3: often use is, I know why if I'm around an
Speaker 3: older man, an authority figure, I want to hide under
Speaker 3: the table, Right. I know why because I had a
Speaker 3: very angry father. Right, he just was not in the
Speaker 3: best period of his life and got it. I made
Speaker 3: peace with it, healed it. I still find myself in
Speaker 3: that situation and the conditioning is still there. I find
Speaker 3: myself the fear starting to come up now I've gotten
Speaker 3: a little bit better where I can now in the moment, know, okay,
Speaker 3: settle down, You're okay. But it's those moments that we
Speaker 3: have to sort of dig into, and I think that's
Speaker 3: what coaches can do well. You know, if it's done well,
Speaker 3: what do you do in that moment, because that's when
Speaker 3: it happens. You know, It's like if you've got to
Speaker 3: tie yourself to the mast, you know, so you're not
Speaker 3: dragged off by the drug addict sirens, right, You've got
Speaker 3: to find a way to do that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So like, for example, it would just be like
Speaker 1: in that moment, so the self awareness is like, okay,
Speaker 1: this is happening, and then you want to go directly
Speaker 1: to your body. Okay, this is what's happening in my
Speaker 1: body right now, Like my stomach feels tight, I'm starting
Speaker 1: to perspire a little bit, I'm feeling stressed. And then
Speaker 1: you can actually just start to use your breath to
Speaker 1: relax your body and be like, Okay, there is a
Speaker 1: conditioned neural pathway response right now that my nervous system
Speaker 1: is reacting to, but it's not real ye. So that
Speaker 1: would be like sort of like a self soothing moment
Speaker 1: when it comes to the attraction and relationship, this is
Speaker 1: where it's a little bit different because it requires, well
Speaker 1: requires two things. Like anything else, human beings are much
Speaker 1: more motivated to make change once they've been in enough pain.
Speaker 1: We're very motivated by pain. So that's like the whole
Speaker 1: concept behind a rock bottom. It's like when the pain
Speaker 1: of being this kind of relationship or this kind of partner,
Speaker 1: when that pain becomes so overbearing that you would rather
Speaker 1: be like alone for the rest of your life than
Speaker 1: with that person or in that kind of relationship, that's
Speaker 1: when you're really right to make some changes. But it's
Speaker 1: practice and it's also the wisdom, and it takes a
Speaker 1: certain level of maturity and growing up inside and wanting
Speaker 1: better things for your life to say, yeah, I'm actually
Speaker 1: really attracted to someone who says who does what they
Speaker 1: say they're going to do, versus the person who's always
Speaker 1: letting me down. Like, for example, there could be lots
Speaker 1: of people that I'm you know, lots of men for example,
Speaker 1: that I'm attracted to, but I register it as trouble,
Speaker 1: so I don't even go there because I don't want
Speaker 1: the trouble. But also, when you change yourself inside, when
Speaker 1: you really recondition yourself and you let yourself be around
Speaker 1: certain people who treat you well or who are more
Speaker 1: aligned with you than over time, you start to say, Okay,
Speaker 1: I'm more attracted to this now. And so there is
Speaker 1: a part of growing up that tends to happen. And
Speaker 1: you know, people come to me because they're ready, and
Speaker 1: if they're not ready, then not much change happens. You know.
Speaker 1: It's it's just like the bottom line, and some people
Speaker 1: change really quickly, and some people are really slow to change,
Speaker 1: and sometimes they just have to go through it. They
Speaker 1: just have to get burned really bad until they say, okay, no,
Speaker 1: not another moment, I'm not doing this anymore.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: An interesting phenomenon I've noticed is you have a bad
Speaker 3: relationship that ends and you're in a lot of pain,
Speaker 3: and you're like, Okay, I'm going to do a lot
Speaker 3: of inner work on myself. I'm going to change this
Speaker 3: so it never happens again. And what's happened with me
Speaker 3: is I do that, and I do make progress, but
Speaker 3: there's only so much of it I can do out
Speaker 3: of relationship. I think I'm not going to fall for
Speaker 3: that one again, or I'm not going to do that again,
Speaker 3: or I'm not going to react like that again. And
Speaker 3: it's easy to say that when I'm sitting in my
Speaker 3: therapist's office or and I'm sitting at home writing in
Speaker 3: my journal. Then throw me into a relationship and I'm like, Okay,
Speaker 3: now this is a little different because I think your
Speaker 3: pain point is a really good one. We're in pain,
Speaker 3: so we start doing this work. Then we meet somebody
Speaker 3: and we're no longer in pain, we feel great, and
Speaker 3: then slowly the normal patterns subtly reassert themselves and you
Speaker 3: find yourself kind of back in the same place again.
Speaker 3: And so yeah, I was just grateful that this time
Speaker 3: around for me with my partner, we both kind of
Speaker 3: from the very beginning, we're like, okay, we both have
Speaker 3: really screwed this up in the past a bunch of times.
Speaker 3: Let's really talk about each other's patterns and understand what
Speaker 3: they are, and you know, really try and work with
Speaker 3: them from the beginning, and it has made a tremendous difference.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's beautiful. It's an interesting paradox. It's like sometimes
Speaker 1: some people really need to take a time out and
Speaker 1: to work on themselves, because that's like that moment where
Speaker 1: you're like, oh boy, maybe it is me. Ye, that's
Speaker 1: the moment. It's like maybe it is me, and look,
Speaker 1: everyone's different. It depends on the severity of the pattern,
Speaker 1: depends on the severity of the pain, Like you might
Speaker 1: have to get yourself to a therapist, or you might
Speaker 1: just have to you know. Maybe it's just like watching
Speaker 1: a bunch of people on Instagram or reading a bunch
Speaker 1: of books, or listening to people's podcast, whatever it is.
Speaker 1: But there is no greater education than the education of
Speaker 1: a relationship. And single is really easy. I mean, there's
Speaker 1: so many people who want obviously they want love, they
Speaker 1: want to be in a relationship, but that's when the
Speaker 1: work begins. It's easy to be on top of your
Speaker 1: game when you're single, but when you're in a relationship,
Speaker 1: it's a giant mirror and it's going to show you
Speaker 1: where you're like, ah, there's that thing again. But the
Speaker 1: difference is that you always have a choice to react
Speaker 1: or respond differently. And then when you become more accountable,
Speaker 1: you will mess up like you're inner teenager, your inner
Speaker 1: three year old will come out, or you'll be totally
Speaker 1: selfish or totally insecure or whatever. It is, you'll cling,
Speaker 1: or you'll be cold, whatever it is, but you own
Speaker 1: it much more quickly, and you say, oh my god,
Speaker 1: I am so sorry. That is me, that is not you.
Speaker 1: I'm not going to do that again. And like, really
Speaker 1: owning it is so huge. Some people will have to
Speaker 1: take a time out from being in a relationship because
Speaker 1: they have lost themselves so much that they have to
Speaker 1: rediscover the self. But then this is the paradox. It's
Speaker 1: like you want to find yourself and connect to yourself
Speaker 1: so that you can learn how to lose yourself again,
Speaker 1: but more appropriately, like in a relationship, not lose yourself
Speaker 1: in the codependent way, but make it so that it's
Speaker 1: not just all about you and developing the self, but
Speaker 1: now it's about you and figuring out how to be
Speaker 1: in relationship.
Speaker 3: So let's talk about relationships. There are some different things
Speaker 3: that you talk about, and one is you talk about
Speaker 3: medicine for relationships. You've got a few different points that
Speaker 3: you think are really important in a relationship.
Speaker 1: Well, accountability is medicine for a relationship, and that's really
Speaker 1: just owning your part. I mean, people love to play
Speaker 1: the blame game in a relationship, and we're projecting all
Speaker 1: the time, will blame a partner for not making us
Speaker 1: feel enough, when not enough is how we felt entering
Speaker 1: the relationship. We'll blame them for not paying attention to us,
Speaker 1: when really we're not paying attention to ourselves. So accountability,
Speaker 1: being responsible for our lives, being responsible for how we act,
Speaker 1: that's medicine. I mean, it really really is. You're in
Speaker 1: a long term relationship and it's lasting years, Like we
Speaker 1: unconsciously break each other's hearts all the time, like we're
Speaker 1: gonna do that, So that's really really important that we're accountable.
Speaker 1: I'm not sure if I wrote this in the blueprint,
Speaker 1: but forgiveness is also medicine for a relationship. You know.
Speaker 1: Obviously there's some things that are unforgivable and that's for
Speaker 1: certain people to have to figure out. But what's their
Speaker 1: like personal stand under it. But like I said, we're
Speaker 1: going to mess up with each other a lot, so
Speaker 1: we have to be able to forgive because if there's
Speaker 1: nothing worse than being with someone who's constantly holding a
Speaker 1: grudge for everything, you know, So forgiveness is medicine. The
Speaker 1: truth is medicine. And this is what I mean, And
Speaker 1: this goes back to what we were talking about in
Speaker 1: the beginning of this conversation, which is that things get
Speaker 1: so messy to the point of broken because of the
Speaker 1: elephants that have been in the room for so long
Speaker 1: that no one is talking about, no one's having the
Speaker 1: difficult conversations. People are internalizing stuff, they're creating stories. Then
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, you're in a situation where throwing
Speaker 1: out the trash is a metaphor for ten years of
Speaker 1: struggle and pain as opposed to just throwing out the trash.
Speaker 1: And so that's so important. But also because I work
Speaker 1: with a lot of people who struggle with their self
Speaker 1: worth in relationships, so they struggle to actually say the
Speaker 1: truth because they're so scared to rock the boat. And
Speaker 1: even if you don't necessarily struggle with your self worth,
Speaker 1: like people are really afraid that if they tell the
Speaker 1: truth that their relationship will dissolve, or if they tell
Speaker 1: the truth to the person that they've been on two
Speaker 1: dates with, that person will no longer want to be
Speaker 1: with them. And yet it's the truth that's medicine for
Speaker 1: a relationship, because if you're dating someone and you're honest
Speaker 1: with them about something in your life and they then
Speaker 1: decide they don't want to be with you. That's actually
Speaker 1: medicine because you don't want to end up with that person.
Speaker 1: It's going to be a disaster. So you never want
Speaker 1: to have to lie to keep your relationship, and you
Speaker 1: have to have the tough conversations. You can't avoid the
Speaker 1: elephant in the room. You got to like, look at it,
Speaker 1: point out it, point it out, name it, and make
Speaker 1: it go away.
Speaker 5: M m m m m m m mm hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm hmmmmmmmmmm.
Speaker 3: What you just said struck me is you know how
Speaker 3: much in my life I tried to be somebody else
Speaker 3: in order to get the partner that I thought that
Speaker 3: I wanted. You know, so I'd meet somebody I'm attracted
Speaker 3: to and I would think, in my mind, but what
Speaker 3: is it that they're going to like? And so I'm
Speaker 3: going to be that. I'm going to do more of that.
Speaker 3: And that is a losing bargain because either a it
Speaker 3: doesn't work because you're not authentic, or even worse, it
Speaker 3: does work, and now you're in a relationship where you're
Speaker 3: expected to be a way that you're not. And that's
Speaker 3: a tough road to go. And you know, as I
Speaker 3: got a little bit older, just starting to realize, like, wait,
Speaker 3: you know what I want is somebody who likes me,
Speaker 3: loves me. But the only way they're going to do
Speaker 3: that is if they see me, the actual me, right,
Speaker 3: And so I love that line. Don't ever lie to
Speaker 3: save your relationship, right, because it's causing trouble for yourself
Speaker 3: and your partner. You say that it's possible to be
Speaker 3: kind and truthful, be both, Sometimes that seems like it's
Speaker 3: hard to do both. Are there any circumstances in which
Speaker 3: you are untruthful?
Speaker 1: Yes? Okay, so, and this is you know, obviously this
Speaker 1: could ruffle some people's feathers, but sometimes a white lie
Speaker 1: is actually compassionate. This would be an example, Honey, do
Speaker 1: I look fat today? No, babe, you look great? But
Speaker 1: maybe that person's thinking, yeah, maybe you did gain a
Speaker 1: few pounds, but like, do they really have to tell?
Speaker 2: Right?
Speaker 3: Let's pause there, though, because I think there's something important
Speaker 3: in this, right, which is I agree, and yet let's
Speaker 3: change genders so we ruffle less feathers. A man says, honey,
Speaker 3: do I look fat to you today? Right? And she says, no,
Speaker 3: you look great, but she's thinking, yeah, you know, really
Speaker 3: you've kind of let yourself go the last five years,
Speaker 3: and I'm just not as attracted to you as I
Speaker 3: used to be, you know. Like, so there's a little
Speaker 3: white lie. That's also there's a bigger thing growing underneath that. Potentially,
Speaker 3: now maybe there's not, but let's let's talk about where
Speaker 3: there is. What do you do in a situation like that?
Speaker 1: Okay? So I believe that people are saying, I want
Speaker 1: this amazing relationship. I want a conscious relationship. We don't
Speaker 1: live in a time anymore where it's like I stay home,
Speaker 1: I cook an eye clean, and they go out and
Speaker 1: you know, make money and come home, like those sort
Speaker 1: of roles that's considered now moral fashion in these days.
Speaker 1: So people are looking for like these incredible connections and relationships.
Speaker 1: And I always say, okay, you want that hold each
Speaker 1: other accountable. And what I mean by that is if
Speaker 1: you find that your partner is straying from their path,
Speaker 1: and maybe that's the path of physical health, mental health.
Speaker 1: I think that what you would say is you wouldn't
Speaker 1: say the white lie would be you withholding I'm not
Speaker 1: that attracted to you anymore, But the truth would be hey,
Speaker 1: like I know that, or honey, or whatever that you know,
Speaker 1: whatever you call your significant other, maybe it's by their name.
Speaker 1: But I know you're not feeling that great about yourself.
Speaker 1: But I think it's because used to really like eat well.
Speaker 1: I think it's time we should get a little healthier.
Speaker 1: I'll do it with you. But you know you're kind
Speaker 1: of like, come on, let's get it together, let's get
Speaker 1: healthy again. It's like it's important, and you could even
Speaker 1: depending on the conversations that you've had in the beginning
Speaker 1: of the relationship. It's like, no, like, physical fitness is
Speaker 1: really important to me. You know this, You agree with me.
Speaker 1: Let's get back on track. So that's how you would
Speaker 1: bring it up. Yeah, instead of I'm gonna be really really,
Speaker 1: really honest with you, like your belly is grossing me out,
Speaker 1: or like I'm just not attracted you because you're overweight, Like, yeah,
Speaker 1: that would be really honest. Is it necessary? I don't
Speaker 1: think so.
Speaker 3: What about situations where a partner has a behavior that
Speaker 3: you don't like. Let's just say your partner is a
Speaker 3: cigarette smoker and you have hit a point in your
Speaker 3: life where you're really focused on health and you recognize, like, geez,
Speaker 3: that's really destructive and I mean, I'm really scared for you,
Speaker 3: and you've had conversations with that person in a respectful
Speaker 3: and kind and decent way, and that person just doesn't
Speaker 3: really want to change. How do you make peace with
Speaker 3: that sort of thing? I mean, I think that's a
Speaker 3: particularly tricky one. If you're a mother and you've got
Speaker 3: two kids and your husband is a smoker, and you're like,
Speaker 3: he's increasing the chances that he's going to have lung
Speaker 3: cancer and not be here to marry him exactly, So
Speaker 3: I'm not ready to blow the marriage up over this thing, right,
Speaker 3: How do I make peace with something like that?
Speaker 1: I think that we're going to have to make peace
Speaker 1: with a lot of things about the person we're in
Speaker 1: a relationship over the years, because we cannot change someone.
Speaker 1: And I think, no, I know that the biggest problems
Speaker 1: come from two things that are related to each other. One,
Speaker 1: people trying to change each other. And two and this
Speaker 1: is all unconscious, mostly unconscious people over relying on their
Speaker 1: partner to make them happy. So it's like people are
Speaker 1: always like coming to the therapy office, the coach's office, whatever,
Speaker 1: and they say, change them, change them so I can
Speaker 1: be happier, Change them, so that I can be more content,
Speaker 1: change them so I can feel more secure. There's always
Speaker 1: going to be things that we're going to have to
Speaker 1: live with in someone else. And if it's something that
Speaker 1: you decide you cannot live with, then it can turn
Speaker 1: into an ultimatum. And that's fine. But then know that
Speaker 1: you're going to be blowing Is it worth it to you?
Speaker 1: Are you going to be blowing the relationship up? I
Speaker 1: really do think that you can enter a relationship with
Speaker 1: the expectation that there is going to be growth and
Speaker 1: that you want your partner to be able to go
Speaker 1: and you want to grow together and all of that.
Speaker 1: But some people grow at different speeds. It's very tricky
Speaker 1: territory when you get into a relationship with someone thinking
Speaker 1: but they'll change, they'll grow. No, don't do that. Don't
Speaker 1: fall in love with potential. You have to really fall
Speaker 1: in love with the person as if they're never going
Speaker 1: to change. But if the relationship is long enough, there's
Speaker 1: going to be certain you change, and then all of
Speaker 1: a sudden you're like, yeah, I was okay with the
Speaker 1: cigarette smoking, now I'm not. But you can't change him
Speaker 1: or her. You cannot change them. You can say, like
Speaker 1: I really don't like this, but at some point you're
Speaker 1: gonna have to say I am going to accept this.
Speaker 1: I don't like it, but I'm gonna accept it. Or
Speaker 1: if it's another behavior like that's really like dysfunctional for
Speaker 1: the relationship, you say this has to change. Tell me
Speaker 1: what you need from me to help you change? How
Speaker 1: can I help you help yourself? And I think that
Speaker 1: that's a question that a lot of people don't ask
Speaker 1: the person they're in a relationship with, like you want
Speaker 1: them to change or behavior, Well, guess what. Oftentimes that
Speaker 1: behavior is largely dependent on something that you're doing that
Speaker 1: they're reacting to. So if you want them to change
Speaker 1: your behavior, this is this is other than cigarette smoking.
Speaker 1: This would be something, you know, something that they do.
Speaker 1: Maybe they shut down, or maybe they get clingy, or
Speaker 1: maybe they yet whatever it is, it's like you're part
Speaker 1: of a dynamic. So if they're doing something, rest assured
Speaker 1: they're doing it in response to something that you're doing.
Speaker 1: So ask them, how can I change to help you change?
Speaker 3: Yep, I think you're right. I think in any relationship
Speaker 3: you are trying to figure out what things can I
Speaker 3: live with and what things can't I. You know, so
Speaker 3: you know, a question a lot of people have is
Speaker 3: a lot of people stay stay in this place for
Speaker 3: a long time, and I think it's a really painful
Speaker 3: place to be, which is should I stay or should
Speaker 3: I go? I feel like that that state on its
Speaker 3: own is a purgatory to be there, you know, And
Speaker 3: so it seems like a better approach would be to
Speaker 3: get clear on okay, this is okay, this isn't. I
Speaker 3: at least am, you know, making the best decision I
Speaker 3: can make now, And for now it's stay or But
Speaker 3: I know you have some questions to ask, you know,
Speaker 3: if you're in that phase.
Speaker 1: Well, first, before I get into the questions, it's like
Speaker 1: some things are just wrong. Like obviously, if you're any
Speaker 1: in any kind of abusive situation, you need to get out.
Speaker 1: I also think that sometimes it's very clear and to
Speaker 1: end something, it's like you're just with someone you guys
Speaker 1: are not right for each other. So sometimes it's very
Speaker 1: very obvious. But if you're in a longer term relationship,
Speaker 1: or you're in a relationship that's been very important to you,
Speaker 1: you've invested a lot of your time, a lot of
Speaker 1: your energy, maybe you have kids together, like you love
Speaker 1: this person, it's an important relationship to you, but it's
Speaker 1: been painful. The question to ask yourself is it's alarming
Speaker 1: to me the amount of people that I have met
Speaker 1: with when they're talking about the person that they're in
Speaker 1: a relationship with, and I ask them, do you know
Speaker 1: what it is that they need? Like what they're really
Speaker 1: like their core needs are, Like what is it that
Speaker 1: they need that maybe you're not giving them, or what
Speaker 1: is it that they need? In general? They have no
Speaker 1: idea how to answer that question. And I think you
Speaker 1: if you're like in a very very bonded relationship where
Speaker 1: in other words, breaking up will have a lot of consequences,
Speaker 1: Like it's a big decision, it's a big decision emotionally
Speaker 1: and all that. Like, you better not be leaving that
Speaker 1: until you can answer that question and until you actually
Speaker 1: try to meet their needs. Because when a relationship goes south,
Speaker 1: there are very few things other than like health, money,
Speaker 1: and relationship. When those things go south, they create a
Speaker 1: tremendous amount of stress. Like work could be amazing, your
Speaker 1: health could be amazing. Your relationship not going well, you
Speaker 1: are going to be waking up in a cold sweat.
Speaker 1: They're going to be unhappy. It's like really really almost
Speaker 1: impossible to be unhappy when your relationship is in dire straits.
Speaker 1: So when that happens, we go into sort of like
Speaker 1: a fight or flight and so we become obsessed with
Speaker 1: ourselves and what I mean by that, we get obsessed
Speaker 1: with our own needs. We're in survival mode. We're constantly
Speaker 1: judging and evaluating our partner based on how well or
Speaker 1: or how not well they're meeting our needs, and we're
Speaker 1: never really evaluating how we're meeting their needs. And this
Speaker 1: goes back to the accountability part. If you can't see
Speaker 1: your part in what has broken down, then that's a problem.
Speaker 1: And also like you have to really try to repair it.
Speaker 1: But a lot of people try to repair their relationship
Speaker 1: but they don't know how to well. The first step
Speaker 1: is owning and acknowledging your role in the dysfunction and
Speaker 1: then learning how to meet their needs, like figure out
Speaker 1: what their needs are, what do they need to feel love?
Speaker 1: Like what are they missing from you? And give that
Speaker 1: and if you don't get anything in return, then you
Speaker 1: have like some answers for you. First, like step out
Speaker 1: of that survival mode ego state and just start to
Speaker 1: give So that's really important. This is under a large
Speaker 1: umbrella of accountability, which is like the main you know
Speaker 1: why that the first episode of the podcast was based
Speaker 1: on that. You know, ask yourself, like, what are these
Speaker 1: psychological and emotional barriers that I have that's preventing me
Speaker 1: from being close with this person? Like what resistance have
Speaker 1: I had? How have I had the like do not
Speaker 1: enter sign at my heart all this time? You know?
Speaker 1: What are my barriers? What's my fear of intimacy? You know?
Speaker 1: How have I actually like, have I actually communicated? Have
Speaker 1: I told the truth? Or have I been just carrying
Speaker 1: around this resentment or this lie or this series of lies.
Speaker 1: So those are some really important key questions to ask yourself.
Speaker 1: And a really important one is if everything were to change,
Speaker 1: Like if you were to actually get the needs met
Speaker 1: that you weren't getting met in the last year or
Speaker 1: however long you've been having trouble, if it were all
Speaker 1: the change, if they were to say okay, I'm going
Speaker 1: to change and they change, would you still want them?
Speaker 3: It's such a good question. It's such a good question
Speaker 3: because the cruelest thing I think is to be like,
Speaker 3: well I need you to do X Y, and Z,
Speaker 3: and they then start really working to do X, Y
Speaker 3: and Z, and you're like, not good enough. Like that
Speaker 3: feels really like it feels tough. I mean these situations
Speaker 3: are like you said, I think health, money, and relationships,
Speaker 3: Like if one of them is way off, it is
Speaker 3: really difficult. There is a dark cloud over a portion
Speaker 3: of your life, for sure. Absolutely under this medicine idea.
Speaker 3: There's a couple other ones and a really important one.
Speaker 3: I just want to read something you wrote. You said,
Speaker 3: there's one pattern that I see in one hundred percent
Speaker 3: of all the couples I've worked with a lack of
Speaker 3: genuine appreciation of one another. Talk more about appreciation.
Speaker 1: So we meet someone and we start seeing them, and
Speaker 1: we start to fall in love and we're in lust.
Speaker 1: And really when we think of them as like we
Speaker 1: see them as like this miracle. It's like, you know,
Speaker 1: angel that's come into our lives and kind of see
Speaker 1: them as a miracle, and we appreciate them so much,
Speaker 1: and then the law of familiarity sets in and all
Speaker 1: of a sudden, that person who you once thought was
Speaker 1: a gift you're taking for granted and we stop really
Speaker 1: appreciating the person for what it is that they do
Speaker 1: for us, what it is that they do for others.
Speaker 1: Whereas like taking each other for granted would be the poison,
Speaker 1: learning to appreciate each other is the medicine. But it's
Speaker 1: not just saying I appreciate you and thank you. It's
Speaker 1: like really feeling it in your heart, you know, like
Speaker 1: really feeling it and acknowledging it. And we lose that.
Speaker 1: And if we lose that, or we get out, I
Speaker 1: should say, we get out of the habit of appreciation
Speaker 1: and into the habit of taking each other for granted.
Speaker 1: If that gets deep enough, if appreciation is really lacking
Speaker 1: and lacking for a long time, then couples then start
Speaker 1: to have like contempt for one another. And you know,
Speaker 1: John Gotman talks about that a lot. But once there's contentment, monce,
Speaker 1: there's contempt. It's over. When you're like, I can't appreciate
Speaker 1: a single thing this person does. In fact, everything they
Speaker 1: do makes my stomach flip in a bad way. It's over.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't know if it was John Gotman who
Speaker 3: came up with this statistic. I've heard and again, whether
Speaker 3: it's the statistics exactly accurate or not, it's not important.
Speaker 3: It points directionally to a truth, which is for a
Speaker 3: relationship to flourish, it takes five positive things that you
Speaker 3: say to someone for every negative thing that you say
Speaker 3: to them. Right, So, again, maybe it's not five to one,
Speaker 3: maybe it's three to one, but it points to you
Speaker 3: need more positive You need to be saying more positive
Speaker 3: things to your partner than negative. Yes, I've been in
Speaker 3: relationships where that is an exact inverse. For every one
Speaker 3: positive thing, there are at least five negative things. And yeah,
Speaker 3: that's not a good place to be.
Speaker 1: No, But then you have to ask yourself, well, why
Speaker 1: does that happen? Well, it happens because our minds get
Speaker 1: crazy and we start to create stories, and then we
Speaker 1: start to project all our stuff where we unconsciously depend
Speaker 1: on our partner to rescue us, to make us happy,
Speaker 1: and then when they don't, we resent them, when we
Speaker 1: hate them. We are unconsciously trying to change each other
Speaker 1: all the time, and then we also become very complacent.
Speaker 1: We take the relationship for granted, so instead of trying
Speaker 1: to proactively create positive memories together, we are instead just
Speaker 1: sitting on the couch and just letting life happen to us,
Speaker 1: instead of actually trying to create a life between us,
Speaker 1: and then all that combined. Next thing, you know, you're
Speaker 1: having ten negative moments compared to the one positive moment.
Speaker 1: That's why it happens.
Speaker 3: You talk about this idea, you say, we all have
Speaker 3: an emotional home. It's an emotional destination we go to
Speaker 3: habitually when we've been triggered by a circumstance. Even though
Speaker 3: we all experience all kinds of emotion, there is always
Speaker 3: a place where we go on the regular under stress.
Speaker 3: Talk to me about that idea and why that's important
Speaker 3: in working more skillfully in relationship.
Speaker 1: Yeah. So, one of the things that I really loved
Speaker 1: about my training under Tony Robbins and my mentor one
Speaker 1: of my mentors, Cloy Madonna's, is that the role of emotions,
Speaker 1: it's a huge part in our story, it's a huge
Speaker 1: part in our relationships. And so in a relationship where
Speaker 1: we have to be responsible for our behavior regardless of
Speaker 1: what our childhoods were like, but we also have to
Speaker 1: be responsible for our emotional patterns. And the thing is
Speaker 1: is that a lot of us live in chronic states
Speaker 1: of stress, and under stress, people usually go into a
Speaker 1: pattern that's been with them for a really long time.
Speaker 1: Some people get angry. Some people vacillate between depression and anxiety,
Speaker 1: like they go back and forth. So, for example, if
Speaker 1: you're stressed out, and let's say your pattern when you're
Speaker 1: stressed is to numb yourself with drugs or alcohol or
Speaker 1: some people like we're always I mean, you know, we're
Speaker 1: numbing ourselves all the time, you know, or to numb
Speaker 1: ourselves like through scrolling through social media or television or
Speaker 1: anything like that. Let's just say you're like in a
Speaker 1: rut and you're doing that all the time. Well, the
Speaker 1: only way to get out of that rut is to
Speaker 1: understand the emotions that are actually leading you to that.
Speaker 1: So that would be sort of like the emotional home.
Speaker 1: It's like you look at something like a pattern that
Speaker 1: you do, and you're like, oh, I realize, like whenever
Speaker 1: I'm triggered or upset or whenever I feel out of
Speaker 1: control in life, I get really anxious. You know, some
Speaker 1: people will always get angry no matter what. So it's
Speaker 1: so important that we understand our psychology and that we
Speaker 1: understand the psychology of the person that we're in a
Speaker 1: relationship with. We can't make our lives better if we
Speaker 1: don't understand the emotional patterns that we get in, you know,
Speaker 1: like that's the root. And I think it's important when
Speaker 1: you're in a relationship to understand to be attuned not
Speaker 1: just to your partner, but also to yourself and understand
Speaker 1: your psychology and understand like, oh, like my spouse, my partner,
Speaker 1: my lover, my boyfriend, my girlfriend, however you want to
Speaker 1: call it, they're doing that that has nothing to do
Speaker 1: with me. They're just like doing that thing that they
Speaker 1: always do. It's not that it's an excuse, but it's
Speaker 1: really like understanding them. The only way to really heal
Speaker 1: our lives is to understand and the emotional patterns that
Speaker 1: we get ourselves into. And every emotional pattern that we
Speaker 1: get into has a story behind it. It's like if
Speaker 1: you're experiencing a lot of sadness or a lot of anger,
Speaker 1: it's like there's a whole pattern to that. You're telling
Speaker 1: yourself you're not good enough. You're telling yourself, I'm always
Speaker 1: going to be that way. Like the example that I
Speaker 1: gave of you know, someone saying well, I'm just broken,
Speaker 1: It's like, okay, well sounds to me like you know,
Speaker 1: someone might say, oh, they're depressed, so that's why they
Speaker 1: say they're broken. It's like, no, that's not how I
Speaker 1: see it. It's they keep saying to themselves that they're broken,
Speaker 1: which leads them into a depression, and then the depression
Speaker 1: actually reinforces the I'm broken, and then the more they
Speaker 1: say I'm broken, the more depressed they are. And that
Speaker 1: is a place where they feel really, really comfortable because
Speaker 1: then as long as they're like that, they don't have
Speaker 1: to stop dating the drug addict. So it's really important
Speaker 1: to understand that home that you go to that is
Speaker 1: very familiar to you. Maybe you've learned it from mom,
Speaker 1: maybe learned it from dad, maybe it's just been practiced
Speaker 1: for you know, thirty forty years. To understand that and
Speaker 1: within the context of a relationship is this is why
Speaker 1: single is a lot of times easier. Is that we
Speaker 1: can indulge that as much as we want if we're
Speaker 1: single and we're not in a good state. We could
Speaker 1: binge watch Netflix all week and long if we wanted to.
Speaker 1: But guess where that's not going to fly in a relationship.
Speaker 3: Yep. We also don't get triggered alone in the same way.
Speaker 3: You know, it's the triggering that I think is one
Speaker 3: of the big things. So like my emotional home or
Speaker 3: my strategy is, you know, you list these different strategies
Speaker 3: that people behavioral patterns and relationships, you know, like control
Speaker 3: or pleasing or fighting. I was like, well, I start
Speaker 3: with pleasing. If that doesn't work, I move into fleeing,
Speaker 3: and if that doesn't work, then I freeze. You know,
Speaker 3: it's like I've got a hierarchy.
Speaker 1: We have a hierarchy.
Speaker 3: Hierarchy of what I go through. I didn't work. Okay,
Speaker 3: let's try try strategy too, But that desire to please
Speaker 3: doesn't get triggered without someone else around. You know that
Speaker 3: freezing doesn't happen generally in the absence of someone. In
Speaker 3: my last marriage, you know, I think you see this
Speaker 3: a lot in troubled relationships, we had the exact opposite patterns, right.
Speaker 3: Her pattern of triggered was anger, which is the thing
Speaker 3: that I'm most afraid of, so that most triggers my runaway,
Speaker 3: which then most triggers her being angry because she feels abandoned.
Speaker 3: Despite knowing it and working on it, we were unable
Speaker 3: to fix it, and you know, we ended it, which
Speaker 3: I don't think is actually a bad thing. I think
Speaker 3: it was a wise thing, and we're both happy and
Speaker 3: get along well with each other. And knowing that your
Speaker 3: emotional home and knowing your reaction pattern, Yeah, you're being
Speaker 3: really helpful, you know. And they're so strong, Like you know,
Speaker 3: for me, there is a shutdown that happens somebody's angry
Speaker 3: around me. It is completely and totally unconscious. It's like
Speaker 3: I can watch it happen. Is if the power is
Speaker 3: just draining out of the system, right, Like if I
Speaker 3: am just like literally shutting down, like a power draining
Speaker 3: out of it, and I can sort of watch it happen,
Speaker 3: and you know, I've gotten better at it, but it
Speaker 3: is still it's so hard when those things are that
Speaker 3: deeply ingrained. It really is a pattern of awareness and
Speaker 3: continuing to take incremental improvement, at least for me, incremental
Speaker 3: improvement in dealing with it and you know, self soothing
Speaker 3: like you talked about earlier, Like Okay, what can I
Speaker 3: do so that we don't get there?
Speaker 1: So there's a couple of different directions to go with this,
Speaker 1: because it really is very interesting. Well, Number one, there's
Speaker 1: a saying that goes we marry our unfinished business from childhood.
Speaker 1: So that's one thing I'll circle back to that. Number two. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it takes an incredible amount of self awareness to be
Speaker 1: in a relationship. For sure. The heavier our baggage, the
Speaker 1: bigger our baggage, the more self aware you're just going
Speaker 1: to have to practice, have to have. And then number
Speaker 1: three is and this ties into like when to leave
Speaker 1: a relationship. Certainly, it's like you can find yourself married
Speaker 1: and you know, it's like, oh, of course we found
Speaker 1: each other. I had the scary father who was angry,
Speaker 1: and then here I am married to someone who sees
Speaker 1: red every time she's triggered. And then we're just going
Speaker 1: to constantly trigger each other. And like, yes, is it
Speaker 1: possible that like two people like that could work and
Speaker 1: like figure it out and grow together, and yeah, it
Speaker 1: could be really profound. Yeah, but there's also an argument
Speaker 1: for saying, well, you know what, like yes, I understand
Speaker 1: like why this is happening. This is like, you know,
Speaker 1: I'm going into my pattern that like I learned as
Speaker 1: a child, and like then when I do that, she's
Speaker 1: being triggered for abandon and all that. But there's something
Speaker 1: to be said for like, you know what, like we're
Speaker 1: too triggering to each other, and that's okay, but it's
Speaker 1: like maybe we're not a match, Like maybe it's like
Speaker 1: we're more of a trauma bond or something like that,
Speaker 1: or like you know, like maybe it's like and it's
Speaker 1: a tough call. It's like, no, you have to love
Speaker 1: each other enough to be like, no, we're going to
Speaker 1: overcome this is like our childhood craft. Or you're just
Speaker 1: like you know what, like it could be a lot
Speaker 1: easier with someone else. Yeah, doesn't mean I don't take
Speaker 1: responsibility for it. And the next thing that I wanted
Speaker 1: to say is that all these patterns, all these emotional homes,
Speaker 1: everything that I write about boils down to one thing,
Speaker 1: Like none of us are doing any of these things
Speaker 1: that we don't want to be doing in a relationship.
Speaker 1: It's all fear. Yeah, every single one of us is
Speaker 1: afraid that the person that we care about is not
Speaker 1: gonna stay or is gonna, you know, like abandon us,
Speaker 1: or is going to reject us. I mean, like this
Speaker 1: is the fear that drives all behavior in a relationship
Speaker 1: that we're not proud of.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so let's spend a couple minutes here and talk
Speaker 3: a little bit about communication. You actually say, communication is
Speaker 3: the glue that keeps couples together, and it's deficit is
Speaker 3: always the force that tears them upon art. You know,
Speaker 3: you talk about some winning strategies, some losing strategies, some skills.
Speaker 3: We're not going to get through all of it, but
Speaker 3: highlight a couple important things regarding communication, either to do
Speaker 3: or not to do. Yeah, that's so important for this
Speaker 3: critical thing. We could have a whole conversation on your
Speaker 3: strategies here, but I'm going to ask you to do
Speaker 3: it in five minutes.
Speaker 1: So okay. So first of all, we're communicating all the time,
Speaker 1: whether we're doing it verbally or nonverbally, Like our body
Speaker 1: is communicating all the time. So it's really important that
Speaker 1: when you are having like any sort of conversation, you're
Speaker 1: turning towards each other. But also that like you're present
Speaker 1: with each other, because we can tell when we're talking
Speaker 1: to someone and even if they're looking at us, we
Speaker 1: can tell that they're not with us. Their mind is
Speaker 1: somewhere else, or they're strategizing how to reply, you know,
Speaker 1: like what's going to be the thing. So presence is
Speaker 1: really important. And also what's really important is that you
Speaker 1: stop debating. Yeah, no more debating, because in a debate
Speaker 1: there's a winner and there's a loser. And if you're
Speaker 1: communicating with your partner with the intent to win the argument,
Speaker 1: then guess what, You're going to walk away feeling validated
Speaker 1: for about a minute. They're going to feel totally invalidated,
Speaker 1: and guess what, your problem doesn't go away, you both lose.
Speaker 3: Actually, so listener and thinking about all of that and
Speaker 3: the other great wisdom from today's episode. If you are
Speaker 3: going to isolate just one top insight or thing to
Speaker 3: do that you're taking away, what would it be. Remember that,
Speaker 3: little by little, a little becomes a lot, and a
Speaker 3: habit for me that has accrude and benefit over time
Speaker 3: is meditation. However, one of the things that gets in
Speaker 3: our way of building a steady meditation practice is that
Speaker 3: very striving. Right. Of course, we're doing it because we
Speaker 3: want certain benefits, but in the moment of actually meditating,
Speaker 3: we need to let striving go and focus on just
Speaker 3: being there and experiencing it. No matter what's happening. It
Speaker 3: becomes not enjoyable because I'm trying to make something happen
Speaker 3: some special moment. We want to let go of that.
Speaker 3: So if you want to stop dreading meditation and actually
Speaker 3: find it enjoyable, check out my free meditation guide at
Speaker 3: Goodwolf dot me slash calm. That presence thing is funny.
Speaker 3: It makes me think of my current partner, Jinny, and
Speaker 3: I like things, like I said, are so are so good.
Speaker 3: But I have a habit of She'll be talking and
Speaker 3: I really am listening, but I'm also on my way
Speaker 3: somewhere else, and it drives her nuts, you know, because
Speaker 3: I'll be like listening to her, and then I'll be
Speaker 3: thinking and I need to go get my sweatshirt and
Speaker 3: I need and so I'm literally walking away.
Speaker 1: Which and for that's really really difficult, not.
Speaker 3: The signal that I want to be sending. What's funny
Speaker 3: is I found if I just say, hey, I also
Speaker 3: while I listen to you need to go do these
Speaker 3: couple of things, it's fine, right, Like it's understood then,
Speaker 3: like you know, it's just so you're right. I mean,
Speaker 3: it's like I really am listening, but my body is
Speaker 3: very clearly saying no, I'm not.
Speaker 1: And the thing is it's like, yeah, you're listening, but
Speaker 1: if you're doing other things, you're not really listening, it's
Speaker 1: the same thing as like the phone. It's like you
Speaker 1: could be like out for dinner. It's like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm not looking at my phone, but it's on the table.
Speaker 1: It's like that immediately changes everything. Having the phone on
Speaker 1: the table is not the same thing as putting your
Speaker 1: phone away. Yeah, it's just not. Or you're like holding
Speaker 1: your phone in your hand even though you're not looking
Speaker 1: at it. It's like it immediately like what you feel,
Speaker 1: even if it's not conscious in that moment, is you
Speaker 1: feel like I am not as important as that device
Speaker 1: that's in that person's hand. Listening is so important. I
Speaker 1: think that people speak way more than they should, and
Speaker 1: they should be really listening more, and there should be
Speaker 1: more of I hear you, I understand you, tell me
Speaker 1: more and less trying to fix. This is actually something
Speaker 1: that happens a lot between male and female relationships, is
Speaker 1: that men typically like to fix and women they just
Speaker 1: typically want to They're like, no, you know, I just
Speaker 1: want to be heard. Yep, I want to be heard.
Speaker 1: So that's something that comes up a lot when it
Speaker 1: comes to like repairing a fight. You said something interesting
Speaker 1: in the beginning of a conversation on that book like
Speaker 1: if there was a camera rolling, what would that pick up?
Speaker 1: And so when you want to repair being able to
Speaker 1: say this is what I saw and really just like
Speaker 1: be the camera like on like showing the recording, and
Speaker 1: then you can say this was my interpretation. So there
Speaker 1: you're like you're like you're actually admitting that, like, Okay,
Speaker 1: this is what my mind, yes, actually constructed over this.
Speaker 1: And then you say how you feel yes, And a
Speaker 1: lot of people use the word feel in front of
Speaker 1: every sentence, thinking I'm talking about my feelings. So it's like, no,
Speaker 1: saying I feel like you don't care is not a feeling.
Speaker 1: A feeling? Is I feel really insecure and scared because
Speaker 1: my perception right now is that you don't care.
Speaker 3: Yeap. Yeah, You've got lots of great words in your
Speaker 3: different courses and workbooks that are available on your website.
Speaker 3: I'll just end this with one that I think is
Speaker 3: so important in every type of relationship, which is positive intent.
Speaker 3: Share a little bit about that.
Speaker 1: So if you believe that the person that you're in
Speaker 1: a relationship with, whether it's a friendship, whether it's a
Speaker 1: significant other, whether it's family, if you actually truly believe
Speaker 1: that that person's intention is to hurt you and to
Speaker 1: harm you, then that's not someone you should be in
Speaker 1: relationship with anymore. So if you can say, Okay, I'm hurt,
Speaker 1: I don't like the behavior. I don't even particularly like
Speaker 1: you right this moment. But if you can say to yourself,
Speaker 1: but I know that that's not what they meant to do.
Speaker 1: And so sometimes we'll get stuck in our heads, we'll
Speaker 1: create a story and we'll get so angry with someone
Speaker 1: and that's when we have to stop and ask ourselves, like,
Speaker 1: do you think that that was their intention was to
Speaker 1: do this to you? Right now? That doesn't mean that
Speaker 1: you don't talk to them about it, doesn't mean that
Speaker 1: you don't call them out on it. It doesn't mean that
Speaker 1: you tolerate behavior. But it's so important to if you're
Speaker 1: going to be constantly seeing a monster in your partner,
Speaker 1: what you're going to be constantly getting as a monster.
Speaker 3: I certainly think it's the place to start, right. I
Speaker 3: love the phrase assume positive intent. You know, assume that.
Speaker 3: Now again, you may need to update your assumption. Yes, right,
Speaker 3: that may not be what it is and then you
Speaker 3: need to update it. But it's a good place to
Speaker 3: start because if you always assume negative intent, and we
Speaker 3: all know people who do. They interpret every action through
Speaker 3: negative intention, and it's a bitter place to live from defensiveness. Yeah,
Speaker 3: you know, and it's back to that camera idea, right Like.
Speaker 3: I find that the place that I've gone wrong in relationships,
Speaker 3: and I see people do so often, is we think
Speaker 3: we know why somebody did something. And you know, if
Speaker 3: you know somebody long enough and you've talked to them enough,
Speaker 3: maybe you know. But the why is very much an interpretation,
Speaker 3: you know, absolutely, I find that just really gets us
Speaker 3: into trouble. It's a whole lot better to as you
Speaker 3: were just saying, here's the behavior I saw, Here's how
Speaker 3: it made me feel. You know, the behavior was a
Speaker 3: factual thing. My feelings are real, they're mine. Now what
Speaker 3: you meant for what you were trying to do, I
Speaker 3: actually need to get that info from you. Yes, well
Speaker 3: said well, Gillian, thank you so much for coming on
Speaker 3: the show. It's such a pleasure. Your podcast again, which
Speaker 3: is just released and has so much great information, is
Speaker 3: called Gillian on Love and listeners can find it anywhere
Speaker 3: they get their podcasts. You and I are going to
Speaker 3: continue in the post show conversation and I want to
Speaker 3: talk a little bit about healing heartbreak because you do
Speaker 3: a lot of work in that area too, and there's
Speaker 3: assuredly some heartbroken people listening right now, so we'll do
Speaker 3: that listeners. If you'd like access to that post show
Speaker 3: conversation and all kinds of other good things you get
Speaker 3: from being part of our community, check it out at
Speaker 3: oneufeed dot net slash join again. Thank you so much, Jillian.
Speaker 2: If what you just heard was helpful to you, please
Speaker 2: consider making a monthly donation to support the One You
Speaker 2: Feed Podcast. When you join our membership community. With this
Speaker 2: monthly pledge, you get lots of exclusive members only benefits.
Speaker 2: It's our way of saying thank you for your support now.
Speaker 2: We are so grateful for that members of our community.
Speaker 2: We wouldn't be able to do what we do without
Speaker 2: their support, and we don't take a single dollar for granted.
Speaker 2: To learn more, make a donation at any level and
Speaker 2: become a member of the one You Feed community, go
Speaker 2: to oneufeed dot net slash Join. The One You Feed
Speaker 2: podcast would like to sincerely thank our sponsors for supporting
Speaker 2: the show.