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Speaker 1: Welcome to the show. This is ridiculous History. We hope

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Speaker 1: this is the podcast you're looking for. I want to

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Speaker 1: start with a question that is very tangentially related. No,

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Speaker 1: you're asking me to give it to me. You're nol.

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Speaker 1: I'm Ben. There's our super producer, Casey Pegram. Everyone say

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Speaker 1: hi Casey, Great, Hi Casey. Uh. The question is this, um,

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Speaker 1: what is what's your favorite holiday? Ghost? Ween? Yeah? Is

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Speaker 1: that the same as Halloween? It's it's just a ghost

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Speaker 1: of your version. Okay, that's cool, that's cool. I'm a

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Speaker 1: I'm a true fan of Halloween. I say this in

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Speaker 1: full disclosure. As we get closer to this favored holiday,

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna be pushing for more and more spooky stories.

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Speaker 1: You know, you push and you push and you push,

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Speaker 1: and sometimes, Ben, sometimes you get what you need. There

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Speaker 1: we go. If you try, sometimes right, you just might

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Speaker 1: find Today's story is a ghost story. Yeah, And it's

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Speaker 1: also a story of people trying things yes on multiple levels.

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Speaker 1: And and it's a story that I could see Guy

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Speaker 1: Richie doing an adaptation of oddly Enough, because it has

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Speaker 1: that right element of the seedy underside of England. Like

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Speaker 1: he didn't he do one of the Sherlock Holmes movies.

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Speaker 1: He did. I believe he did. Yeah, right, that's been

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Speaker 1: Casey on the case. We always have to try to

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Speaker 1: have at least one Casey on the case. That one

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Speaker 1: was unexpected. Yeah, he just kind of popped in, which

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Speaker 1: I like sudden death court. I like it. He has

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Speaker 1: this button out there that he has to hit and

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Speaker 1: it's it's pretty cool. Yeah, we're we're all getting the

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Speaker 1: hang of it, and I think it's I think it's

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Speaker 1: normalized now. So guy Richie probably would do a good

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Speaker 1: job with this because it's got a lot of Cockney

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Speaker 1: accents to and a lot of usury and then loan

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Speaker 1: shark nous afoot and a lot of scams and cons.

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Speaker 1: But without further ado, let us present the story of

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Speaker 1: the cock Lane Ghost. But we can't begin in cock Lane, right.

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Speaker 1: We have to begin first with a pair of lovers,

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Speaker 1: William Kent and Elizabeth Lynes, who married in about seventeen

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Speaker 1: fifty six or seventeen fifty seven. That's very true, and tragically,

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Speaker 1: the then Mrs Kent died in childbirth, leaving her husband William,

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Speaker 1: to take care of a newborn baby boy. And this

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Speaker 1: was in Stoke Ferry Kent had kept an inn and

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Speaker 1: then later he was running the local post office. Now,

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Speaker 1: all of a sudden he was a single father, or

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Speaker 1: was he? You see, because Elizabeth had a sister and

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Speaker 1: her sister's name was Francis, commonly known as Fanny, and

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Speaker 1: Fanny Um swooped in to help out with the childcare

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Speaker 1: because Kent found himself. I don't know, there's no exact

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Speaker 1: details as to why he couldn't raise the child himself,

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Speaker 1: but he seemed inapt at the at the whole affair,

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Speaker 1: and so he needed a woman's touch. Yeah, And unfortunately,

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Speaker 1: the infant, who was a boy, did not survive for

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Speaker 1: very long. And when the child unfortunately passed away, childhood

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Speaker 1: mortality being at a much higher rate in those days, Uh,

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Speaker 1: Fanny decided to stay on and become kind of a

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Speaker 1: housekeeper for William. But soon they began having their own

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Speaker 1: amorous relationship. Yeah. And I think there was even a

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Speaker 1: time where he kind of sent her away, and um,

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Speaker 1: she wrote him letters saying, you know, I don't want

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Speaker 1: to say begging, but you know, expressing that her love

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Speaker 1: for him was real and that he should, you know, welcome,

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Speaker 1: welcome her back with open arms and Eventually it worked

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Speaker 1: and he um and they ended up together. But this

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Speaker 1: is interesting because she was a relative of his former wife.

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Speaker 1: It was not uh kosher for them to get married.

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Speaker 1: It was it was against the law. Yeah, it was

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Speaker 1: against canon law for them to be married. And this

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Speaker 1: this is something that they were both aware of, and

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Speaker 1: it's one of the suspected motivations pushing William Kent to

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Speaker 1: originally leave Fanny and move to London. But she wins

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Speaker 1: them over with these passionate letters, and so he eventually says, Okay,

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Speaker 1: come move with me. Can meet me in London. I

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Speaker 1: live in East Greenwich. And they decide that they're gonna,

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Speaker 1: you know, canon law be darned, They're going to live

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Speaker 1: together as man and wife. Canon law being like of

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Speaker 1: the Catholic Church, not some Catholic, not so much Catholic.

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Speaker 1: There's England. I mean, canon law can be any organized religions,

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Speaker 1: but the right. So the Anglican Church and the Methodists

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Speaker 1: will also appear and here later, despite the fact that

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Speaker 1: they have decided to in practice disobey canon law, they

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Speaker 1: do try to keep it on what we would call

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Speaker 1: the modern day the low. They keep it on the

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Speaker 1: down low. They still have wills in each other's favor,

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Speaker 1: but they're trying to be discreet about this. They don't

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Speaker 1: want a bunch of people to know what they're doing.

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Speaker 1: And they are not very successful with this because they

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Speaker 1: moved to some rooms near a place called the Mansion House.

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Speaker 1: They're renting these rooms, and historians believe the landlords may

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Speaker 1: have learned about this illicit relationship from Fanny's other surviving relatives.

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Speaker 1: And this is this is where we have to start

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Speaker 1: talking about Kent's John of what what does do well.

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Speaker 1: This took me a couple of passes of some of

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Speaker 1: this research material to read until I happened upon an

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Speaker 1: article by our good pals at the Daily Mail um,

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Speaker 1: who you know, aren't exactly the most reputable source for

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Speaker 1: for stuff like this, but they had a really good

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Speaker 1: write up about this particular story that real quickly called

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Speaker 1: him for what he was, which is a loan shark,

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Speaker 1: because he had done this several times. Because I was

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Speaker 1: reading another article where it kept saying how he was

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Speaker 1: always loaning his landlord's money, and at first I thought

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Speaker 1: I was misreading it, like does this did they mean

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Speaker 1: that landlords were leaning him money? And getting mad because

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Speaker 1: he wasn't paying. No, he was loaning the money and

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Speaker 1: then always got into trouble because of disputes about you

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Speaker 1: know how he was gonna get paid back. And I

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Speaker 1: think he used the term usury. Yeah, he's a userer,

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Speaker 1: which I would phrase as a loan shark today, a

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Speaker 1: userer being someone who makes questionable loans with unfair interest rates,

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Speaker 1: and originally usually meant any sort of interest of any kind. However,

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Speaker 1: in this case it was like his job. He loaned

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Speaker 1: people money and they were supposed to pay him back.

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Speaker 1: This goes sour when their landlord at these rooms near

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Speaker 1: the mansion house decides that, hey, these people are living

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Speaker 1: in sin. I despised this. I am not going to

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Speaker 1: repay that money that you loaned me, Mr Kent And uh,

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Speaker 1: I read somewhere is the equivalent of about twenty pounds today,

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Speaker 1: probably a little bit more than twenty pounds today, And

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Speaker 1: so can move to have that landlord arrested, which could

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Speaker 1: only bring tensions to the house. Yeah, and I think

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Speaker 1: you know they were asked to leave, right they were.

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Speaker 1: They were evicted over this dispute. They were evicted over

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Speaker 1: this dispute. They had to find somewhere else to live

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Speaker 1: or round about. This time, they meet a clerk, a

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Speaker 1: parish clerk by the name of Richard Parsons. Yeah, he's

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Speaker 1: a clerk at UM, the Church of the Holy Sepulcher

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Speaker 1: Sepulcher without Newgate. Okay, well I made I made the

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Speaker 1: first part up, but I was closed. I got the

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Speaker 1: key word right, which is a crazy word, a sepulcher.

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Speaker 1: I just love it sound dash without Newgate. Yeah, where's

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Speaker 1: Newgate in all this? It's not there, that's for sure,

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Speaker 1: I know. Wow, Yeah, I don't understand. But yeah, that

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Speaker 1: religious connection is going to come into play here pretty shortly.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, no, sooner do they move in? Um that

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Speaker 1: he kent loans this guy Parsons another sum of money,

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Speaker 1: um with the terms of a guinea a month in interest. Right,

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Speaker 1: he's got twelve. He loans them twelve guineas and they're

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Speaker 1: supposed to be repaid at that rate. Right, So oh,

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Speaker 1: we should mention the most important part. When Parsons hears

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Speaker 1: about their plight, he is sympathetic and he says, hey,

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Speaker 1: you can use these rooms. You can live in these

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Speaker 1: rooms in my home on cock Lane, which is just

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Speaker 1: north of this church. And yes, your Noli is absolutely

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Speaker 1: right here. Shortly after Mr and Mrs Kent, as they

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Speaker 1: were calling themselves at the time, scandal casey, can I

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Speaker 1: get a gasp from the crowd? Perfect? Right as they

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Speaker 1: were moving in, Kent loaned Parsons twelve guineas. And then

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Speaker 1: it was shortly after that Kent goes to visit someone

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Speaker 1: I think for a wedding outside like he leaves town,

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Speaker 1: and then they hear these reports of strange noises. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's right, um. But before before that, um, this landlord

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Speaker 1: also discovered the nature of their relationship. She held that

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Speaker 1: over Kent's head again as as a way of saying,

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Speaker 1: I'm not paying back this money because I got some

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Speaker 1: dirt on you. Yeah, because he knew about their plight

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Speaker 1: of needing a place to live, but maybe he did

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Speaker 1: not know the full extent of why they were out

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Speaker 1: of house and home. So at some point he found out, right,

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Speaker 1: Oh he did, he did, And it's not clear exactly

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Speaker 1: how he found out, probably very similarly to I don't know,

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Speaker 1: maybe maybe another another snitching relative. Because you have to

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Speaker 1: remember too that this guy was doing something pretty untoward

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Speaker 1: in the puritanical eyes of the time. He was carrying

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Speaker 1: on with the sister of his dead wife, which would

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Speaker 1: have been frowned upon in this uh kind of society

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Speaker 1: In many places, it's still probably frowned upon today. Of

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Speaker 1: Parsons was a family man himself, but also apparently a

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Speaker 1: bit of an alcoholic. Yeah. Yeah. He was considered a

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Speaker 1: generally nice guy around town, but known luckily as a

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Speaker 1: drunk with money problems. So he definitely needed those twelve

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Speaker 1: guineas to support his wife and his two daughters. He

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Speaker 1: had one daughter in particular, is very important to this story,

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Speaker 1: named Elizabeth, also called Betty by her friends and familiars,

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Speaker 1: and kent. When he traveled away from town, he asked

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Speaker 1: Elizabeth to stay with Fanny because Fanny by this point

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Speaker 1: was several months pregnant. But then, yeah, as fate would

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Speaker 1: have it, the story takes another unfortunate turn where Fanny

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Speaker 1: dies of smallpox, taking along with her onborn child. Yeah. So,

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Speaker 1: the very first reports of these noises come from Elizabeth,

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Speaker 1: Betty and and Fanny, and at first, uh, Mrs Parsons

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Speaker 1: attributes them to a shoemaker and people are kind of

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Speaker 1: creeped out, but they're trying to figure out what's happening there,

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Speaker 1: and Kent decided. Here's how the death went down. Kent

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Speaker 1: decided to that they needed to move to a other place,

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Speaker 1: but the place was not suitable. The place that they

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Speaker 1: were living in temporarily was not suitable for a woman

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Speaker 1: so far along in pregnancy. And as you said, um,

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Speaker 1: on February second, seventeen sixty, Fanny Lyle, also known as

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Speaker 1: Mrs Kent, passed away with her child. Kent is the

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Speaker 1: sole executor of the will, the living Mr Kent, but

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Speaker 1: he had very valid fears about being legally in hot

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Speaker 1: water if people knew about the true nature of their relationship.

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Speaker 1: In the will, he's just Mr Kent. Yeah. And I

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Speaker 1: think Fanny's brother had passed recently as well, leaving her

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Speaker 1: his portion of the family estate or whatever hundred and

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Speaker 1: fifty pounds, yeah, which was nothing to sneeze at. So

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Speaker 1: Kent was do a decent little chunk of change. Um.

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Speaker 1: I want to I I want to mention one thing too. Um.

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Speaker 1: There was a great podcast episode from a show called

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Speaker 1: dig Dig podcast dot Org on the cock Lane Ghost

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Speaker 1: of London, and it had a few details in it

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Speaker 1: that I thought were super interesting, one of which was

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Speaker 1: and I've seen this in a couple of the places too,

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Speaker 1: but I like the way they put it. Um that

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Speaker 1: as Frank as Fanny was on her deathbed. Um, there

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Speaker 1: are multiple reports of people in the area in the

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Speaker 1: home seeing a ghost or a as some sort of

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Speaker 1: apparition manifest in the home while while Frank Fanny was

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Speaker 1: still alive. So this story gets really confusing in places.

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna go ahead and put that up there right now,

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Speaker 1: because the noises happened before Fanny died, and there was

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Speaker 1: a sense are some local reports that it was actually

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Speaker 1: Kent's deceased wife, his original wife, coming around and making

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Speaker 1: trouble and rattling chains because she was unhappy about said

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Speaker 1: uh carryings on with with her sister Elizabeth Lines. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: So what's key to notice here? As we established earlier,

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Speaker 1: those strange sounds begin as soon as Elizabeth enters the picture,

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Speaker 1: the younger the Elizabeth Parsons, Elizabeth the daughter, yes, the

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Speaker 1: daughter of the landlord. Yes, the daughter of the landlord Parsons.

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Speaker 1: And despite the problems that they have regarding the strange phenomenon,

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Speaker 1: when Fanny passes away the Parsons family, here's no more

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Speaker 1: of these strange noises, and they kind of shrugged it

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Speaker 1: off as just one of the things. There's a great

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Speaker 1: blog called Strange Company which builds this as a walk

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Speaker 1: on the weird side of history, and they break down

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Speaker 1: some of the financial stuff here at the time the

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Speaker 1: two families left. At the time Kent moved himself and

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Speaker 1: his wife out of the Parsons household. Parsons still owed

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Speaker 1: Kent three guineas of those twelve you have been loaned.

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Speaker 1: So Kent takes Parsons to court, and he takes him

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Speaker 1: to court successfully, he collects the three guineas. Now it's

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Speaker 1: January seven, teen sixty two, and guess what. The strange

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Speaker 1: noises start up again, even louder and more vehemently than before.

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Speaker 1: Have we described these sounds yet been there? There were

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Speaker 1: a couple of variations that we'll get into, but the

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Speaker 1: main one was something of a scratch. Right. Originally they

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Speaker 1: were not, and then they became scratches the second time

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Speaker 1: they surfaced. Yeah, and it's crazy that the the evolution

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Speaker 1: of this sound. You know, there's always that you think.

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Speaker 1: I think I've mentioned this on another show before, but

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Speaker 1: remember that episode of Curb Your Enthusiasm where Larry is

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Speaker 1: obsessed with the house sound yeah, can we play that

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Speaker 1: clip real quick. It's the noise. They're a noise? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: what is it? It's probably just a house sound or

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Speaker 1: something house sound? Yeah, what's a house sound? It also

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Speaker 1: reminds me that Troupe and so many horror films where

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Speaker 1: someone goes it's only the wind, and in this case

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Speaker 1: they're like, trouble, not young Betty, He's only the cobbler.

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Speaker 1: Tis but a cobbler tinkering away? Yeah, exactly, So cobbler's

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Speaker 1: can tinker, but can tinker's cobble ben? Anyone can cobble

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Speaker 1: the differences whether you can cobble well, I see, if

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Speaker 1: you can cobble well enough to trust trust your shoes afterwards.

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Speaker 1: In this case, the shoemaker just makes that one appearance.

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Speaker 1: Cobbler guy does not come back afterwards, but the noises

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Speaker 1: due as we said, they came back with a vengeance

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Speaker 1: right after that court case was decided in Kent's favorites. Right,

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Speaker 1: And at this point it's become a bit of a

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Speaker 1: of a local phenomenon, hasn't it. And the ghost has

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Speaker 1: earned a nickname, a rather body nickname. You say they're

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Speaker 1: talking about the cock Lane Ghost. No, No, scratching Fanny.

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Speaker 1: Scratching Fanny, Okay, yes, they're both kind of body, if

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Speaker 1: we're being honest, their body to us. Yeah. I think

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Speaker 1: for them, cock Lane was just the name of their

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Speaker 1: street totally. But scratching Fanny over there, Fanny doesn't mean

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Speaker 1: the same thing as it means over here. I'm just

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Speaker 1: gonna put that out. That's absolutely true. A lot of

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Speaker 1: your British fans will find the term Fannie Pack hilarious

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Speaker 1: and scratching Fanny just sounds like something something told me.

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Speaker 1: Sweden conjecture a bit on how the community and neighborhood

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Speaker 1: found out about this phenomenon and how the cock Lane

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Speaker 1: ghost or Scratching Fanny acquired this early renown. They had

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Speaker 1: checked originally with this cobbler to see if the cobbler

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Speaker 1: was working during the time that they heard these noises.

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Speaker 1: Was it not on a Sunday? It was It was

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Speaker 1: at a time when the who wouldn't be working. I

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Speaker 1: think it was a Sunday Sunday, so that makes sense.

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Speaker 1: And a neighbor named James Franzen said that he saw

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Speaker 1: a strange white here drifting through the Parsons home back when,

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Speaker 1: back when Fanny was still alive. That's the one we

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Speaker 1: talked about earlier, the apparition that was when she was

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Speaker 1: on her death bet or whatever. And that's he also

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Speaker 1: said that he heard ghostly knockings in his own bed chamber.

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Speaker 1: So picture this guy at the local pub around with

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Speaker 1: his buddies, right. That's how these words and rumors spread.

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Speaker 1: And now people are starting not only to report the ghosts,

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Speaker 1: but to ascribe motive to scratching Fanny. So they said

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Speaker 1: that she was not here just to make a hubbub

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Speaker 1: and a hullabaloo, but that she was here with a mission.

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Speaker 1: She was trying to get justice beyond the grave. And

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Speaker 1: people started to play back the details of Fanny's death

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Speaker 1: and life to themselves, and they started saying, yeah, what

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Speaker 1: Fanny might a will leave it? Everything she owned, took, kent,

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Speaker 1: everything she had, every lost fall thing, and it in

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Speaker 1: it and uh. Then they noticed that Fanny's surviving sister,

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Speaker 1: Anne had arrived for the funeral and was very upset

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Speaker 1: that she couldn't take a look at her sister in

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Speaker 1: the grave. I think they couldn't open the coffin for

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Speaker 1: And then she said that, at least allegedly, Anne said

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Speaker 1: that Kent had done something dastardly, and that Fanny's surviving

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Speaker 1: siblings were all in good repair with her, you know

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Speaker 1: what I mean, They got along, there was any sibling

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Speaker 1: hate or rivalry. So why would she have left her

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Speaker 1: fortune to this loan shark dude? Right? You know surely

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Speaker 1: that was not a respected profession in those days. He

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Speaker 1: would have been seen as seen as a bit of

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Speaker 1: a of a confidence man, almost right. I mean, loans

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Speaker 1: in general were always a hot button issue. He was

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Speaker 1: called a usurer, not exactly kind words. Right, So people

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Speaker 1: started thinking that Mr William Kent was not quite the

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Speaker 1: grief stricken widow that he appeared to be. I don't

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Speaker 1: think I think it's time we get into when the

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Speaker 1: church starts getting involved. What do you think? Sure? So

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Speaker 1: let's talk a little bit about the people who are

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Speaker 1: starting to observe this stuff. We have friends and walking

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Speaker 1: by first and neighbor and then we have more people

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Speaker 1: in the community finding out. But the word of this

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Speaker 1: spreads through London proper, beyond the neighborhoods to the entire city,

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Speaker 1: London Town. So strangers are stopping by, Oh totally. And

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Speaker 1: I actually saw one mention about how um it had

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Speaker 1: made the narrow little side street of cock Lane Versus

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Speaker 1: virtually impassable because it was like, you know, just picture

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Speaker 1: some sort of street side attraction and people just be

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Speaker 1: qued up outside and you know, blocking the road. I

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Speaker 1: mean it was totally like that. Like, it was definitely

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Speaker 1: chock full of looky loose, right, and there was no

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Speaker 1: assigned time at which the apparently unearthly phenomen would occur,

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Speaker 1: so people would just stay out in the street waiting

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Speaker 1: and drinking. And some famous people started to observe this too. Well,

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Speaker 1: that's true, but that's um. When really things started heating

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Speaker 1: up was when Parsons himself. We remember he was a

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Speaker 1: clerk at the most Holy Church of the Separate without

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Speaker 1: not without with you new Gate, that's the one. And

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Speaker 1: he had some connects. One of these was a guy

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Speaker 1: by the name of John Moore, who was an assistant

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Speaker 1: preacher at uh St. Sepulcher's without as without New Game,

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Speaker 1: and he was also the rector at a place called

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Speaker 1: Saint Bartholomew the Great, which was over in West Smithfield.

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Speaker 1: And he, I don't know, for lack of a better term,

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Speaker 1: was like like an exorcist, right. He was coming in

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Speaker 1: there because there was also talk that young Elizabeth, that

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Speaker 1: the daughter of the landlord Mr Parsons, was possibly possessed, right,

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Speaker 1: because the thing that we would refer to as a

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Speaker 1: poulter geist today seemed to be closely associated with her,

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Speaker 1: with Elizabeth Parsons specifically. Yeah. Right, And one of the

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Speaker 1: things that Parsons really wanted more to help him do

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Speaker 1: was to be a subject matter expert and established first

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Speaker 1: that there have been reports of Fanny's sister Elizabeth appearing

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Speaker 1: in ghostly form as Fanny was laying in her death bed.

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Speaker 1: And then they said, okay, well, the spirit that's haunting

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Speaker 1: the Parsons house now, and particularly Elizabeth Parsons, must be

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Speaker 1: the spirit of Fanny herself and scratching Fanny. This didn't

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Speaker 1: sound too out of the ordinary, impossible back then in England,

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Speaker 1: because there was a widespread belief in ghost You know,

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Speaker 1: Shakespeare has been around their ghost of plenty, and the

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Speaker 1: literature and the folklore of the time certainly think folks

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Speaker 1: who are a lot more willing to accept the stuff

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Speaker 1: without any proof, imaginations running wild like they do. And

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Speaker 1: also just the kind of zealous religious nature of the time,

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Speaker 1: and the fact that a member of the clergy would

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Speaker 1: take this issue that seriously speaks to the mindset I

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Speaker 1: think the public. Right Yet, and here's the other part.

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Speaker 1: They did see themselves as rational investigators because you see,

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Speaker 1: they devised a method of attempting to communicate with the ghost,

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Speaker 1: transforming back from scratchings two knox right, and they said,

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Speaker 1: maybe we can speak with this ghost through a very

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Speaker 1: simple system, and we we can make sure it can

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Speaker 1: hear us and respond to us with these sounds it's making.

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Speaker 1: And we'll set up a system and will explain it

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Speaker 1: allowed to the ghost or the entity, so that the

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Speaker 1: ghosts then knows the rules of interaction, will keep it simple,

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Speaker 1: So no Morse code, nothing like that. Morse code wasn't

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Speaker 1: around by that time. What's the system, Ben, Well, if

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Speaker 1: there's a question where the answer is yes, you have

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Speaker 1: one knock, there's an answer with the question is no,

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Speaker 1: you have two knocks. But here's my question, like, what's

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Speaker 1: the space between two knocks and right? And does it

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Speaker 1: all get all gummed up when you ask things that

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Speaker 1: aren't yes or no questions? You know what I mean?

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Speaker 1: That was a clap. I think for the rest of

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Speaker 1: the podcast, Ben, I would like to communicate back with

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Speaker 1: you only with Knox, only with yes or no responses.

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Speaker 1: Is that okay? So what was the line of questioning? Ben?

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Speaker 1: That the that the the extor system, I call him that.

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Speaker 1: What how did you start grilling the ghost? It's interesting

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Speaker 1: because we have the we have the questions, and we're

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Speaker 1: fairly certain that we have the actual exact questions because

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Speaker 1: we found them in a cup full of different sources.

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Speaker 1: I found them in a book called The Cocklane Ghosts

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Speaker 1: by a guy named Paul Chambers, and I think they've

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Speaker 1: been printed out in another couple of places. But we're

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Speaker 1: we're fairly certain these are the actual questions. Let's see,

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Speaker 1: do you want to be the priest or do you

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Speaker 1: want to be the ghost? Um? Dealer's choice? Ben, Dealer's choice?

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Speaker 1: All right, I think you would be great for the

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Speaker 1: character of the priest. Ben. Thank you. First of all,

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Speaker 1: I want to preface by saying that these are some

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Speaker 1: pretty leading questions for this ghost um, but but just

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Speaker 1: the same, we're going to present them here without comment. Casey,

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Speaker 1: can we get some tense music? Are you the wife

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Speaker 1: of Mr Kent? Did you die naturally? Was that two

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Speaker 1: or three knocks? Okay? Then bye? Poison. Imagine a pregnant

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Speaker 1: pause here did any person other than Mista Kent administer it?

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Speaker 1: And then at this point somebody in the audience shouts

403
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Speaker 1: has to asked the ghost if you shall be hanged?

404
00:26:20,080 --> 00:26:27,920
Speaker 1: And the question was asked and the ghost responded, leslie, yikes,

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Speaker 1: I know, yeah, trial by ghost maybe maybe by ghosts.

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Speaker 1: So so this is a to some people, to the

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Speaker 1: more religiously minded, this is a damning smoking gun for

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Speaker 1: Mr William Kent, because there's already that hubbub around town

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Speaker 1: about why would she have left him all of her

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Speaker 1: possessions when she had no falling out with her living family? Right,

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Speaker 1: So as as this posts quote unquote ghosts is answering

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Speaker 1: further questions, people decide that she had not died from smallpox,

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Speaker 1: but rather specifically from arsenic poisoning, and according to their theory,

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Speaker 1: the arsenic had been given to Fanny by Kent himself

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Speaker 1: two hours before she died, and now again allegedly her

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Speaker 1: spirit had returned for vengeance. And this experiment was repeated

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Speaker 1: several additional times. On January five, a guy, a reverend

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Speaker 1: by the name of Thomas Broughton, came to the house

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Speaker 1: and checked out the hauntings, and um, we start seeing

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Speaker 1: this popping up in the papers and them like kind

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Speaker 1: of because guy's being kind of tried in the court

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Speaker 1: of public opinion, because public opinion leans pretty heavily on

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Speaker 1: the word of ghosts. Apparently, right, the public ledgers started

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Speaker 1: publishing regular accounts of the Cockling ghost phenomenon, and more

425
00:28:01,880 --> 00:28:04,760
Speaker 1: and more people would read the paper and say, you

426
00:28:04,840 --> 00:28:09,320
Speaker 1: know that William Kent is a murderer. And Kent vowed

427
00:28:09,359 --> 00:28:13,280
Speaker 1: to clear his name. So he brought in two of

428
00:28:13,280 --> 00:28:16,239
Speaker 1: the doctors who had taken care of Fannie in her

429
00:28:16,320 --> 00:28:21,080
Speaker 1: last days, along with Reverend Broughton, and took them to

430
00:28:21,119 --> 00:28:24,640
Speaker 1: cock Lane and said, okay, let's do a seance. This

431
00:28:24,760 --> 00:28:29,520
Speaker 1: seance did not go the way that they thought it would.

432
00:28:30,200 --> 00:28:33,159
Speaker 1: It started with a relative of the Parson family, a

433
00:28:33,200 --> 00:28:37,639
Speaker 1: lady named Mary Fraser, running around the room shouting Fanny, Fanny,

434
00:28:37,720 --> 00:28:41,720
Speaker 1: why don't you come? Do come, pray Fanny come. Nothing happened.

435
00:28:41,880 --> 00:28:45,080
Speaker 1: According to More, it's because they were too noisy. There's

436
00:28:45,120 --> 00:28:48,520
Speaker 1: a pretty incredible article that I found. Um that's from

437
00:28:48,600 --> 00:28:52,440
Speaker 1: the Derby Mercury, which was a paper of note, and

438
00:28:52,560 --> 00:28:56,440
Speaker 1: it's it's almost impossible to fully read because it really

439
00:28:56,520 --> 00:29:00,800
Speaker 1: is written and like almost Canterbury Tales type like which Yeah,

440
00:29:00,840 --> 00:29:03,240
Speaker 1: and it's a it's a large font to where the

441
00:29:03,480 --> 00:29:07,000
Speaker 1: lower case S is look like lower case f's. This

442
00:29:07,080 --> 00:29:11,440
Speaker 1: is the one from January twenty first, one that's right

443
00:29:11,560 --> 00:29:15,080
Speaker 1: priced at twopence and a halfpenny. It's a steel You

444
00:29:15,120 --> 00:29:18,680
Speaker 1: just don't know who's getting robbed. Yeah. The Derby Mercury

445
00:29:18,840 --> 00:29:22,720
Speaker 1: reported pretty extensively on this during the time that it

446
00:29:22,840 --> 00:29:26,239
Speaker 1: was happening. Are you gonna go for some interpretations here?

447
00:29:26,240 --> 00:29:27,880
Speaker 1: You know? I was thinking you might be able to.

448
00:29:28,040 --> 00:29:30,400
Speaker 1: I was having a hard time. Um, let's see if

449
00:29:30,400 --> 00:29:33,520
Speaker 1: we can find a choice of graph Uh. It begins

450
00:29:33,560 --> 00:29:36,800
Speaker 1: with full some time past a great knocking and having

451
00:29:36,840 --> 00:29:39,800
Speaker 1: been heard in the night at the officiating parish clerks

452
00:29:39,800 --> 00:29:42,840
Speaker 1: of St Sepulchers and Cocklaye, near Smithfield, to the great

453
00:29:42,920 --> 00:29:45,440
Speaker 1: terror of the family, and all means used to discover

454
00:29:45,520 --> 00:29:48,160
Speaker 1: the meaning of it. Four gentlemen set up there on

455
00:29:48,240 --> 00:29:52,360
Speaker 1: Friday night, among whom was a clergyman who asked various questions.

456
00:29:53,480 --> 00:29:55,560
Speaker 1: Questions is capitalized? Feel like we have to say it

457
00:29:55,640 --> 00:29:57,920
Speaker 1: that way? And the s F is really thrown me

458
00:29:57,960 --> 00:29:59,160
Speaker 1: for a loop? Can I can I give it a try,

459
00:29:59,360 --> 00:30:01,600
Speaker 1: give it a go. His asking if anyone had been

460
00:30:01,640 --> 00:30:04,640
Speaker 1: mad dad, nothing answered, But on his asking if anyone

461
00:30:04,680 --> 00:30:09,640
Speaker 1: had been poisoned, it's knocked six times. Various are the

462
00:30:09,680 --> 00:30:14,840
Speaker 1: conjectures in the neighborhood of this supposed specter, but the

463
00:30:14,960 --> 00:30:18,280
Speaker 1: cause as yet has not been discovered. My accent shifting.

464
00:30:18,640 --> 00:30:21,600
Speaker 1: The report current in the neighborhood is that a woman

465
00:30:21,920 --> 00:30:26,600
Speaker 1: was some time ago poisoned and buried at St John's Clerkenwell.

466
00:30:27,160 --> 00:30:32,200
Speaker 1: And he goes on in detail offering these question and

467
00:30:32,240 --> 00:30:36,880
Speaker 1: answers sessions across various days as proof. There there are

468
00:30:36,920 --> 00:30:42,280
Speaker 1: some parts of the narrative where you see investigators asking

469
00:30:42,280 --> 00:30:46,440
Speaker 1: the ghost to identify how many people were present in

470
00:30:46,480 --> 00:30:50,520
Speaker 1: the room, and even asking to the ghost to predict

471
00:30:51,080 --> 00:30:55,840
Speaker 1: the future as well. So one of the questions is

472
00:30:56,360 --> 00:30:59,920
Speaker 1: how long would it be before William Kent was executed?

473
00:31:00,280 --> 00:31:03,920
Speaker 1: And they said three years? Wow. And and the ability

474
00:31:04,000 --> 00:31:07,720
Speaker 1: to see into the future is another trait commonly associated

475
00:31:07,720 --> 00:31:11,160
Speaker 1: with ghosts or those who dwell beyond the veil. But

476
00:31:11,560 --> 00:31:14,200
Speaker 1: it's really kind of unconfirmable, isn't it to me? And

477
00:31:14,200 --> 00:31:16,120
Speaker 1: I could he could have said thirty years, he could

478
00:31:16,160 --> 00:31:21,920
Speaker 1: have said two weeks and the we shall also mentioned.

479
00:31:21,960 --> 00:31:26,720
Speaker 1: This time William kent Is is married. He has his

480
00:31:26,880 --> 00:31:32,360
Speaker 1: third wife, not related to his previous two. And as

481
00:31:32,400 --> 00:31:38,160
Speaker 1: they were holding these seances, the Lord Mayor of London

482
00:31:38,400 --> 00:31:41,760
Speaker 1: becomes involved, and they also start moving Elizabeth the young

483
00:31:41,800 --> 00:31:47,880
Speaker 1: Elizabeth Elizabeth Parsons two different houses to conduct seances because

484
00:31:47,880 --> 00:31:52,240
Speaker 1: they say the ghost is somehow associated with her. Interesting

485
00:31:53,760 --> 00:31:57,160
Speaker 1: and also, there's just no way we can get through

486
00:31:57,200 --> 00:32:01,720
Speaker 1: cock Lane. The crowds are too pressing, so we have

487
00:32:01,800 --> 00:32:03,680
Speaker 1: to try somewhere else. When you do some like pop

488
00:32:03,760 --> 00:32:07,600
Speaker 1: up seances where in London town? So shall we get

489
00:32:07,640 --> 00:32:10,080
Speaker 1: to the twist? If you haven't already predicted it, here's

490
00:32:10,080 --> 00:32:13,520
Speaker 1: another twist. Yeah, let's just let's go for it. Uh.

491
00:32:13,560 --> 00:32:18,440
Speaker 1: They keep having seances and more and more notable people come.

492
00:32:18,880 --> 00:32:21,760
Speaker 1: One seance in February of seventeen sixty two, a Dr

493
00:32:21,880 --> 00:32:26,800
Speaker 1: Samuel Johnson is allowed to visit the seance and what what?

494
00:32:26,800 --> 00:32:29,160
Speaker 1: What do they find there? No? Well, and you may

495
00:32:29,240 --> 00:32:31,760
Speaker 1: recall earlier that there was some talk of the ghost

496
00:32:31,960 --> 00:32:37,480
Speaker 1: being kind of emanating or being associated with Elizabeth Parsons. Well, yeah,

497
00:32:37,520 --> 00:32:40,320
Speaker 1: it turns out she she'd been hiding some woodblocks up

498
00:32:40,400 --> 00:32:45,640
Speaker 1: her skirt and banging them together making those knocks. Yeah,

499
00:32:45,680 --> 00:32:50,280
Speaker 1: she had hidden the wood in her clothes, and following

500
00:32:50,440 --> 00:32:53,880
Speaker 1: a trial like she was busted. Busted, they found the

501
00:32:53,920 --> 00:32:57,760
Speaker 1: little pieces of wood and it explained all the past

502
00:32:58,520 --> 00:33:01,200
Speaker 1: imperfections of sale. Is where they said, oh, we have

503
00:33:01,280 --> 00:33:03,920
Speaker 1: to do it with the light slow, or we can't.

504
00:33:04,680 --> 00:33:08,000
Speaker 1: The knocking stops if you look under the table where

505
00:33:08,040 --> 00:33:12,560
Speaker 1: the kid's legs are. So Elizabeth Parsons comes clean. She

506
00:33:12,640 --> 00:33:16,120
Speaker 1: says she's doing this because her dad made her. That's right,

507
00:33:16,440 --> 00:33:21,480
Speaker 1: the dad, Uh, the drunk who had apparently drunk his

508
00:33:21,600 --> 00:33:26,120
Speaker 1: one guinea a month um interest payments away after he

509
00:33:26,280 --> 00:33:29,280
Speaker 1: tried to extort Kent' See, I don't think Kent comes

510
00:33:29,280 --> 00:33:31,400
Speaker 1: off as a bully in this story. I think Parsons

511
00:33:31,680 --> 00:33:34,000
Speaker 1: comes off as as as more of the bully here. Um,

512
00:33:34,080 --> 00:33:36,360
Speaker 1: Ken's just trying to apply his trade. Man, He's not

513
00:33:36,400 --> 00:33:38,640
Speaker 1: forcing anybody to take the loan, He's just offering him.

514
00:33:38,680 --> 00:33:40,480
Speaker 1: You know, I don't know. Maybe that makes me sound

515
00:33:40,520 --> 00:33:43,080
Speaker 1: like a bad guy, but that's how I feel. So, Yeah,

516
00:33:43,160 --> 00:33:46,920
Speaker 1: it was all in revenge of like him bringing legal

517
00:33:46,960 --> 00:33:49,040
Speaker 1: action against this guy. And you know, if if you

518
00:33:49,080 --> 00:33:52,600
Speaker 1: could accuse Kent of being anything. It was cheap because

519
00:33:52,920 --> 00:33:55,920
Speaker 1: a guinea isn't a lot, I don't believe. And we

520
00:33:55,920 --> 00:33:59,000
Speaker 1: talked about these being usurists rates because you know, it

521
00:33:59,000 --> 00:34:01,120
Speaker 1: almost sounds like I think it was a twelve guinea

522
00:34:01,240 --> 00:34:03,320
Speaker 1: loan and he was supposed to pay back that one

523
00:34:03,360 --> 00:34:06,520
Speaker 1: guinea a month and didn't get to go didn't go

524
00:34:06,600 --> 00:34:08,719
Speaker 1: to court until it was down to three guinea a

525
00:34:08,719 --> 00:34:12,719
Speaker 1: month or three guinea total. Yes, And I think that

526
00:34:13,000 --> 00:34:16,399
Speaker 1: Kent took him to court even though it wasn't even

527
00:34:16,440 --> 00:34:18,239
Speaker 1: that much money. It was more for the principle of

528
00:34:18,239 --> 00:34:19,960
Speaker 1: the thing, as far as he was concerned. So I

529
00:34:20,000 --> 00:34:22,759
Speaker 1: think in what I'm getting at is that clearly the

530
00:34:22,840 --> 00:34:26,000
Speaker 1: villain here is not Kent, despite you know, maybe maybe

531
00:34:26,000 --> 00:34:29,080
Speaker 1: it's not cool that he married his uh or semi

532
00:34:29,120 --> 00:34:33,319
Speaker 1: married his dead wife's sister, but I don't know. She

533
00:34:33,440 --> 00:34:35,720
Speaker 1: was there for him. She helped him raise the child,

534
00:34:36,120 --> 00:34:39,439
Speaker 1: and then they shared a tragedy together, you know, when

535
00:34:39,440 --> 00:34:42,319
Speaker 1: this this this child died, it seems fine to me.

536
00:34:42,520 --> 00:34:46,400
Speaker 1: So yeah, it's very difficult. I would say unfair to

537
00:34:46,440 --> 00:34:50,320
Speaker 1: ascribe those personal motives if we don't really know this story.

538
00:34:50,520 --> 00:34:52,920
Speaker 1: So I would I would say from their behavior it

539
00:34:53,000 --> 00:34:55,799
Speaker 1: seems like as a couple they were on the up

540
00:34:55,800 --> 00:34:59,440
Speaker 1: and up, despite the fact that society didn't improve of them. Ultimately,

541
00:34:59,520 --> 00:35:03,920
Speaker 1: society does side with Mr Kent at least because Parsons

542
00:35:03,920 --> 00:35:06,800
Speaker 1: goes to trial and he is sentenced to two years

543
00:35:06,800 --> 00:35:09,440
Speaker 1: in jail. Yeah, and he even has a co conspirator,

544
00:35:09,440 --> 00:35:13,240
Speaker 1: which I believe was his his maid, Mary Fraser. May

545
00:35:13,320 --> 00:35:16,120
Speaker 1: Mary Fraser uh not to be confused with friends. And

546
00:35:16,120 --> 00:35:17,799
Speaker 1: there's a lot of a lot of characters and names

547
00:35:17,800 --> 00:35:19,279
Speaker 1: in this story. It was it's it's a little bit

548
00:35:19,280 --> 00:35:21,040
Speaker 1: of a tricky woman. This is this is good. She

549
00:35:21,120 --> 00:35:24,600
Speaker 1: gets six months hard labor, which is no good. What

550
00:35:24,640 --> 00:35:26,840
Speaker 1: happened to the daughter though she was because she was

551
00:35:26,880 --> 00:35:28,799
Speaker 1: a miner, she didn't get anything. You don't hear about

552
00:35:28,800 --> 00:35:30,840
Speaker 1: anything happening to her. But it seems like she was

553
00:35:30,880 --> 00:35:33,680
Speaker 1: the one perpetrating the russ Maybe it was just because

554
00:35:33,960 --> 00:35:36,200
Speaker 1: he was contributing to her delinquency. But she was like

555
00:35:36,239 --> 00:35:39,279
Speaker 1: twenty years old. I believe she was of age. She

556
00:35:39,280 --> 00:35:41,240
Speaker 1: she had grown by that time, but it was probably

557
00:35:41,880 --> 00:35:45,520
Speaker 1: still thought to be a hapless pawn's traying the wishes

558
00:35:45,640 --> 00:35:50,560
Speaker 1: of her parents. And additionally, Parsons, who said he was

559
00:35:50,600 --> 00:35:53,440
Speaker 1: innocent by the way the whole time, and never confessed

560
00:35:54,120 --> 00:35:58,040
Speaker 1: was pilloried. A pillory for anyone who you kind of

561
00:35:58,080 --> 00:36:00,080
Speaker 1: recall the term, but you don't know exactly what it is.

562
00:36:00,320 --> 00:36:02,440
Speaker 1: A pillory is when people are put in those weird

563
00:36:02,560 --> 00:36:05,160
Speaker 1: stocks that hold them at their neck and their wrists.

564
00:36:05,719 --> 00:36:10,200
Speaker 1: It's a form of public humiliation. Does not sound like fun. Yeah,

565
00:36:10,280 --> 00:36:13,400
Speaker 1: they do it at the Renaissance fair though here in Atlanta. Yes,

566
00:36:13,480 --> 00:36:16,919
Speaker 1: But in contrast to the way the crowds would treat

567
00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:20,840
Speaker 1: other criminals in the pillory, people didn't throw rotten fruit

568
00:36:20,840 --> 00:36:24,920
Speaker 1: and meat at him. They actually took the opportunity to

569
00:36:24,960 --> 00:36:27,480
Speaker 1: walk around and collect money for him for his cause.

570
00:36:28,120 --> 00:36:31,240
Speaker 1: Interesting because no matter what he had done, he still

571
00:36:31,320 --> 00:36:34,640
Speaker 1: hadn't married the sister of his dead wife. Wow man,

572
00:36:34,800 --> 00:36:37,160
Speaker 1: full circle. So it really is more of a puritanical

573
00:36:37,239 --> 00:36:40,040
Speaker 1: judgment at the end of the day, a little, a

574
00:36:40,040 --> 00:36:44,120
Speaker 1: little bit more. And there's much more to the story

575
00:36:44,400 --> 00:36:49,760
Speaker 1: regarding the cultural context of the time, the religious controversy

576
00:36:49,880 --> 00:36:55,000
Speaker 1: between Methodists and Orthodox Anglicans, but that may be a

577
00:36:55,160 --> 00:36:59,400
Speaker 1: tale for another day. We hope you enjoy the story

578
00:36:59,440 --> 00:37:06,360
Speaker 1: of this early spiritual investigation skepticism versus spirituality versus scandal,

579
00:37:07,520 --> 00:37:11,600
Speaker 1: but this is far from the only ghost story that

580
00:37:11,640 --> 00:37:14,400
Speaker 1: will tell eventually, right, Yeah, you said we're gonna we're

581
00:37:14,400 --> 00:37:17,959
Speaker 1: gonna really lean into some ghost stories for the month

582
00:37:17,960 --> 00:37:21,319
Speaker 1: of October. Maybe I said I would. I would love to.

583
00:37:21,600 --> 00:37:24,839
Speaker 1: But we're we are nothing if not a democracy, right,

584
00:37:24,920 --> 00:37:27,759
Speaker 1: So that's right to us. And let us know if

585
00:37:27,800 --> 00:37:30,359
Speaker 1: there are any spooky stories from history that you think

586
00:37:30,400 --> 00:37:33,240
Speaker 1: your fellow Ridiculous Historians would like to hear. And also

587
00:37:33,320 --> 00:37:35,560
Speaker 1: you know right to us if you're like, no, don't

588
00:37:35,560 --> 00:37:37,719
Speaker 1: tell any spooky stories. Yeah, you can write to us

589
00:37:37,719 --> 00:37:40,160
Speaker 1: at ridiculous at how stuff works dot com. You can

590
00:37:40,239 --> 00:37:42,960
Speaker 1: hit us up on Facebook or Instagram or were Ridiculous

591
00:37:43,000 --> 00:37:46,520
Speaker 1: History um. Please also join our Facebook group where we

592
00:37:46,560 --> 00:37:48,799
Speaker 1: have lots of fun discussions and that's a good place

593
00:37:48,840 --> 00:37:51,759
Speaker 1: to post any suggestions for us as well, because we

594
00:37:51,800 --> 00:37:53,560
Speaker 1: do kind of hang out in there, and that's called

595
00:37:53,680 --> 00:37:57,680
Speaker 1: Ridiculous Historians on Facebook. UM. Big thanks to super producer

596
00:37:57,719 --> 00:38:01,240
Speaker 1: Casey Pegram and Alex Williams, who composed our theme, as

597
00:38:01,280 --> 00:38:07,000
Speaker 1: well as Christopher hasciotis our research associate and erstwhile cameo

598
00:38:07,520 --> 00:38:09,879
Speaker 1: expert on the show. We need to have him back

599
00:38:09,920 --> 00:38:13,319
Speaker 1: on soon as well. As Eve's Jeff coach uh and

600
00:38:13,440 --> 00:38:17,960
Speaker 1: big thanks to you knowl and big thanks to you listeners,

601
00:38:18,360 --> 00:38:21,839
Speaker 1: and please stick around for our next episode where we

602
00:38:22,160 --> 00:38:27,360
Speaker 1: talk about what happened to the mad hatter who killed

603
00:38:27,600 --> 00:38:31,400
Speaker 1: the man who killed Abraham Lincoln. It's a doozy, folks.

604
00:38:32,480 --> 00:38:34,560
Speaker 1: That's all for today. I guess we could end on

605
00:38:34,600 --> 00:38:36,120
Speaker 1: a knock knock joke. Sure,