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Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is

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Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or

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Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A

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Speaker 1: production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt,

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Speaker 2: my name is Noah.

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Speaker 3: They called me Ben.

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Speaker 4: We're joined as always with our super producer Alexis, code

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Speaker 4: named Doc Holliday Jackson. Most importantly, you are here and

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Speaker 4: that makes this the stuff they don't want you to know.

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Speaker 4: It's the top of the week, which means it is

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Speaker 4: time for some news that's particularly strange. We are going

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Speaker 4: to learn some new details in a longstanding murder case.

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Speaker 4: Actually we're going to do that several times. We're going

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Speaker 4: to talk about how last week was, in a weird way,

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Speaker 4: a big week for serial killers. We're going to have

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Speaker 4: to mention a little bit about AI in Hollywood, of course,

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Speaker 4: and shout out to our our pal who is a

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Speaker 4: glass blower who wrote to us and said, hey, I'm

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Speaker 4: the one guy in the audience.

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Speaker 3: Who didn't know what mad libs are.

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Speaker 4: So you know, we never will we make those call

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Speaker 4: outs and ask ask for those kind of communicates. It's

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Speaker 4: always amazing when we hear back, and we like to

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Speaker 4: follow up on things. That's what. That's what a lot

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Speaker 4: of this week's Strange News segment is going to be

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Speaker 4: about following up on things that may have not hit

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Speaker 4: the headlines quite yet. Before we do any of that,

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Speaker 4: our first story today is for for the TikTokers in

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Speaker 4: the audience. Alexis called this a tic topical story. Was

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Speaker 4: that yes, yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, r yes, yes all.

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Speaker 3: Right, gang gang gang gang Noel? What's on ice cream

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Speaker 3: is so good? Yes? Yes, yes, stop pa balloon and.

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Speaker 2: Not casting a spell that I am unaware of its effect.

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Speaker 5: You know, we say that about lots of media, media,

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Speaker 5: ritualistic kind of media.

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Speaker 3: Basically, Okay, I will say this to lead off.

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Speaker 5: This is a phenomenon that I found out about from

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Speaker 5: the guys over Internet today who linked to several incredible

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Speaker 5: articles about this, this phenomenon known as NPC streaming. But

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Speaker 5: I told my kid about it, who is an official,

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Speaker 5: you know, actual facts gen z, and she was not

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Speaker 5: aware of this, and the moment that I told her

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Speaker 5: about it, she started seeing it everywhere. I don't know

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Speaker 5: what's going on the Internet and algorithms and all of that,

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Speaker 5: or if it's just a coincidence, or it's one of

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Speaker 5: those things where if you start looking for something, then

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Speaker 5: you're more likely to find it. But essentially, you know,

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Speaker 5: we think of TikTok videos that go viral as these

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Speaker 5: very short form pieces of content. But like many platforms

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Speaker 5: that involve streaming video, TikTok also has a live feature.

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Speaker 5: And this live feature is being used in a very

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Speaker 5: bizarre and dare I say interesting way by a handful

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Speaker 5: of users, and it's starting to really pick up some steam.

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Speaker 5: So those little nonsense blurbs that I was spouting off

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Speaker 5: just a few minutes ago, yeah, that's basically what it is.

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Speaker 5: You'll have an individual who is streaming, you know, two

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Speaker 5: users who are watching the stream, and on first look,

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Speaker 5: it seems as though this person is some sort of

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Speaker 5: glitching robot or like I don't know, some kind of

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Speaker 5: hologram that is experiencing a technical malfunction by just kind

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Speaker 5: of blurting out these little non sequitor, seemingly nonsensical phrases

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Speaker 5: like Ganggang ice cream, so good, pop pop pop pop

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Speaker 5: balloon and yes, yes yes, And then there are others.

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Speaker 5: This is what is being referred to, as I said,

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Speaker 5: as NPC streaming NPC for all the gamers out there,

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Speaker 5: refers to non player characters, and we've seen plenty of

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Speaker 5: memes surrounding things like I got an arrow in the

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Speaker 5: knee or whatever, like they're lesser characters and video games.

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Speaker 5: By being lesser than say main characters or more story

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Speaker 5: driving characters and games, they have a pretty finite number

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Speaker 5: of things that they can react to, and if you

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Speaker 5: hang out with them long and other games, you're going

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Speaker 5: to hear them repeating these things and it kind of,

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Speaker 5: you know, oftentimes too hilarious results.

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Speaker 4: Oh fun, fun theory about the MPC you mentioned in Skyrim,

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Speaker 4: you know, where there's a soldier, it's like I used

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Speaker 4: to be out having adventures, but then I took an

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Speaker 4: arrow to the knee. And you're right, they say that

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Speaker 4: pretty often. Apparently that is a clever bit of in

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Speaker 4: the window or euphemism, taking arrow to the knee, as

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Speaker 4: in like getting down on one knee and proposing settling

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Speaker 4: down and starting a family. Interesting, that's that's kind of weird,

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Speaker 4: you know, just Skyrim's so deep with MPCs, but you're

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Speaker 4: you're nailing the description here well.

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Speaker 5: And it also reminds me of the thing that I

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Speaker 5: think we talked about recently, the idea of touching grace

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Speaker 5: and elden Ring referring to this notion of hey, everybody,

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Speaker 5: make sure you're not just like, hold up and what's

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Speaker 5: it called, you know, poop socking and playing this game

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Speaker 5: and never going outside and touching grass, touch grass, Well.

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Speaker 3: I get it. It's definitely you know, it definitely can

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Speaker 3: be triggering. We've talked about poop socking.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, okay, anyway, one of the most prominent users in

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Speaker 5: the TikTok world that is doing these is a user

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Speaker 5: by the name of Pinky Doll, who is Canadian, a

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Speaker 5: twenty seven year old resident of Montreal named Feta sign

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Speaker 5: On or Sinan, who spoke to The New York Times

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Speaker 5: about this and said, Okay, you know, initially you might

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Speaker 5: come across as something like, what is this weirdo gen

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Speaker 5: z nonsense. Well, what it is is a cash cow.

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Speaker 5: Apparently Pinky Doll is making anywhere between two thousand and

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Speaker 5: three thousand dollars per stream because these people who are

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Speaker 5: doing these these NPC live streams are reacting to little

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Speaker 5: rewards that can be handed out by users in the

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Speaker 5: form of stickers.

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Speaker 3: I think is what they're called virtual.

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Speaker 5: Coins is another way that was referred to in a

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Speaker 5: Mashable article by Mira Naviaka. It's essentially a token that

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Speaker 5: amounts to actual money, but each one of these is

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Speaker 5: only worth about point zero one CeNSE. That's right, Matt,

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Speaker 5: point zero one CeNSE. I saw you make a face.

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Speaker 5: But somehow you're getting enough of these or at least,

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Speaker 5: you know, the most popular practitioners of this money making

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Speaker 5: device to earn about two thousand to three thousand dollars

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Speaker 5: per stream. There are other users, one called not to

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Speaker 5: Echo not not too a Coco I think it's pronounced.

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Speaker 5: With around one point five million followers. This user is

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Speaker 5: actually given credit for, you know, kicking off this trend.

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Speaker 5: And again I'm always crediting the dudes over Internet. Today,

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Speaker 5: they have really thoughtful commentary on a lot of these

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Speaker 5: bizarro kind of Internet culture things that pop up, and

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Speaker 5: they pointed out that this is the kind of thing

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Speaker 5: that doesn't really reach us, I guess normies in this situation,

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Speaker 5: or at least people that are outside of the TikTok

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Speaker 5: bubble until it crosses this kind of barrier, you know,

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Speaker 5: into you know, something more like being discussed on Twitter

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Speaker 5: or Instagram or one of the platforms that we old

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Speaker 5: you know, still mess with. And now it's actually gained

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Speaker 5: so much steam because of its bizarre nature that people

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Speaker 5: had so many questions that the New York Times is

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Speaker 5: writing about it. And yet somehow my kid, who is

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Speaker 5: not a mega TikTok user but definitely very much it's

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Speaker 5: in you know, her wheelhouse and her friend group. She

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Speaker 5: didn't even know about it. So yeah, it's essentially, you know,

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Speaker 5: you're reacting so like, you know, an ice cream whatever

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Speaker 5: emog or let's call it a virtual coin yields a

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Speaker 5: reaction of ice cream so good. And there's one that's

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Speaker 5: that creates the responsive of Ganggang. And here's another thing

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Speaker 5: that's interesting that the Internet Today guys also pointed out

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Speaker 5: utter credit where credit is due, and I ran this

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Speaker 5: by my kid and she agrees.

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Speaker 3: Usually there's another thing at play in these videos.

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Speaker 5: In Pinky Dolls streams, or at least one in particular

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Speaker 5: that got some attention. She's using a hair straightener in

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Speaker 5: the background to pop single kernels of popcorn. So if

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Speaker 5: you put a single kernel of popcorn between a hair straightener,

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Speaker 5: you know, one of those flat dooly bops, it'll eventually pop,

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Speaker 5: and it creates this extra thing to pay attention to

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Speaker 5: and wait for the result of while you're watching all

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Speaker 5: of this sensory overload reaction to these different you know emotes. Again,

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Speaker 5: I probably using terminology incorrectly, forgive me, but again, each

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Speaker 5: one of those does amounts to an amount of money.

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Speaker 5: And if someone is doing enough of these to earn

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Speaker 5: two thousand to three thousand dollars a stream, and they

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Speaker 5: only are worth about point zero one sense, I'm impressed

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Speaker 5: a by that amount of money, and also be that

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Speaker 5: they keep track of these. It's just a constant barrage

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Speaker 5: of these. You've ever been on alive and you see

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Speaker 5: the little heart's popping up, it's the same you know

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Speaker 5: on an Instagram live, only it's multiple different ones of

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Speaker 5: these that were that elicit a different reaction all the

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Speaker 5: while while waiting for the little popcorn kernel to pop,

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Speaker 5: at which point Pinky Doll takes it and puts it

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Speaker 5: in a little bowl.

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Speaker 3: There's other ones too.

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Speaker 5: My kid was saying, there's ones where they'll like gradually

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Speaker 5: be peeling an egg in the background, or you know,

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Speaker 5: doing something with Plato's It's all about these kind of

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Speaker 5: things that are meant to feed kind of add types

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Speaker 5: of impulses.

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Speaker 3: I guess it's, you know, sensory overload.

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Speaker 5: And Ben, you're always referring to the dopa mean casino,

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Speaker 5: and this is an actual monetized version of the dopamine casino.

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Speaker 5: Because every time that thing lights up and the person

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Speaker 5: you know that's streaming makes one of those sounds, it

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Speaker 5: lights up some little sector of your brain. And maybe

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Speaker 5: at first you're just passively watching it, you know, and

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Speaker 5: just like out of morbid curiosity, and then maybe you

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Speaker 5: get to a point where you're like, oh, well, maybe

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Speaker 5: I'll try this myself, and then it could very well

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Speaker 5: become maybe not an addiction person, well, well let's just

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Speaker 5: call it could become some form of addiction. I mean,

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Speaker 5: dopamine release is equivalent to a hit of a drug

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Speaker 5: of some kind, you know. And there have been studies recently,

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Speaker 5: even before this particular phenomenon that have cautioned that a

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Speaker 5: lot of this kind of thing is a casino for kids.

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Speaker 4: Sure, I mean, at the very least, it's weaponizing habituation. Actually,

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Speaker 4: it is the same reason that slot machines work, even

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Speaker 4: when you know the math is against you. In the

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Speaker 4: house will always win. I like it's weird, because says

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Speaker 4: talking with Robert Evans a while back about AI generated

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Speaker 4: children's books, which are a huge, huge drift. And the

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Speaker 4: problem here no seems to be similar in that ostensibly

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Speaker 4: this does not seem dangerous, right, This seems like a silly,

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Speaker 4: fun diversion. I do input A, I get output B.

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Speaker 4: I get a little chuckle, little spark in a happy

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Speaker 4: part of my brain. But with that habituation, with that eternal,

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Speaker 4: like that growing, escalating feedback loop of stimulus response, then

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Speaker 4: the danger is that it can assume an ever greater

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Speaker 4: priority in the mind, you know what I mean. Like,

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Speaker 4: we see other examples of this with kids from before

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Speaker 4: the days of the internet, kids calling uh nine hundred

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Speaker 4: numbers and racking up thousands of dollars on the phone

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Speaker 4: bill before their parents find out. And that sounds silly,

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Speaker 4: but I I know someone who that happened to. They

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Speaker 4: were like eight years old and they started calling an

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Speaker 4: insult joke line. So they were paying like ninety nine

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Speaker 4: cents a dollar ninety nine a minute to call and

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Speaker 4: have some guy say like, oh hey, freckle face. And

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Speaker 4: it wasn't even live. It was just recorded stuff, so

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Speaker 4: this can happen. And the problem is that without making

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Speaker 4: us all sound curmudgeonally, the problem is that when people

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Speaker 4: realized there might be a danger to it, the ship

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Speaker 4: is often already sailed. Right. That's why people sometimes are

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Speaker 4: homeless and live in internet cafes. No one identified the

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Speaker 4: need to. As much as I don't like the phrase touchgrass.

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Speaker 3: It's true.

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Speaker 5: And one last thing, you know, well, just just another thing.

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Speaker 3: I know you've got something to say here as well.

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Speaker 5: It occurs to me too that this kind of reward

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Speaker 5: based streaming really has its origins in adult content, you know,

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Speaker 5: websites like chatter Baits and only fans. You know, where

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Speaker 5: you are in fact reacting to someone doing like sex acts.

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Speaker 5: And the more you know, you you give, you know,

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Speaker 5: these rewards, they'll do kind of what you ask them

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Speaker 5: to do. Or there might be ones where there are

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Speaker 5: specific buttons for certain things. And I've even seen ones

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Speaker 5: like I think Chatterbaits in particular, where your clicks are

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Speaker 5: connected to a device of some kind. You know, let's

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Speaker 5: just keep it relatively family friendly. But the fact that

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Speaker 5: this is, you know, TikTok is a platform that's very

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Speaker 5: much geared towards children and to your point, bend this

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Speaker 5: can on the surface seem innocuous. The more you dig

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Speaker 5: into this, there are versions of this that do sort

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Speaker 5: of start to really lean a little bit towards the fetishistic,

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Speaker 5: you know, and the NPC idea is that you're controlling

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Speaker 5: this person. There there is a a an act of

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Speaker 5: control that is inherent in these types of exchanges.

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Speaker 2: It's really interesting to me. Uh, there's a Guardian article

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Speaker 2: about this, and there's a quote in here from someone

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Speaker 2: named Christine Tran from the University of Toronto. This person's

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Speaker 2: a doctoral researcher of Internet culture and digital labor, and

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Speaker 2: Christine's making the point that this NPC streaming thing is

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Speaker 2: kind of the granddaughter of I don't know how the

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Speaker 2: right way to put this, but Christine puts it as

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Speaker 2: cam girl influencing as this is like it's a spinoff,

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Speaker 2: and it reminds me of some of the ASMR video

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Speaker 2: content that that became really popular ten years ago. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 2: for a while there where where a really popular ASMR

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Speaker 2: streamer may also have, you know, an explicit version of

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Speaker 2: those videos that exist somewhere online, like an only fans

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Speaker 2: account or something like that and I didn't I didn't

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Speaker 2: know this, but Pinky Doll and Cherry Crush, at least

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Speaker 2: according to The Guardian, maintain OnlyFans accounts with explicit content.

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Speaker 2: So it does make sense that this is like the

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Speaker 2: I don't know the PG version of people who also

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Speaker 2: make that kind of content.

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Speaker 5: Well, and it's also interesting too because like kids, kids

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Speaker 5: these days are totally aware of pornography. How could they

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Speaker 5: not be, you know, I mean, it's just part and

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Speaker 5: parcel of life on the Internet. And I can only

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Speaker 5: imagine the kinds of things that my kid may or

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Speaker 5: may not have seen that I will never be aware of.

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Speaker 5: And there's nothing I can do about it. And maybe,

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Speaker 5: you know, listeners will come out and you know, call

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Speaker 5: me the task on that and say, well, do something

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Speaker 5: about it, bro, like put some blocks on. But you

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Speaker 5: can't man the genies out of the bottle. There's too

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Speaker 5: many things that are so niche that no filter is

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Speaker 5: gonna change that.

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Speaker 3: And like, you know, and I trust my kid, you know.

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Speaker 5: To put to relatively do a relatively good job of

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Speaker 5: policing her own Internet use. And maybe that's naive, maybe

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Speaker 5: that's me being foolish, but I don't think so and again,

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Speaker 5: I just think it's that we've gotten to a point

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Speaker 5: where what are you going to do?

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Speaker 3: These kids live on the internet. That that's just how

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Speaker 3: life has become.

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Speaker 5: God, we went through a whole year of enforced life

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Speaker 5: on the internet, you know, through the pandemic and all

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Speaker 5: of that. You can't just take that away from them.

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Speaker 5: That's like taking away air, you know. I mean, it's

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Speaker 5: literally like taking away something that they need to survive socially.

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Speaker 5: You know, without it, they would just wither and wouldn't

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Speaker 5: know how to exist. And maybe that's sad, but it

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Speaker 5: is what it is.

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Speaker 4: Agreed well said. I mean, there's there's also I mean,

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Speaker 4: there's so much more to explore in this way.

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Speaker 3: But I'm really.

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Speaker 4: Grateful that you're you're bringing the light here, especially for

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Speaker 4: those of us in the crowd who adamantly refuse to

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Speaker 4: participate in TikTok.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's it's not for us, guys.

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Speaker 5: You know, if something like hits or like crosses that

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Speaker 5: barrier like we were talking about, I'll become aware of it.

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Speaker 5: I do think it's a fascinating phenomenon and a fascinating

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Speaker 5: bell weather of culture, but it's not for us. It's

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Speaker 5: just it's it's it's outside of my you know, comprehension.

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Speaker 5: And I mean i'd like funny videos. I like, you know,

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Speaker 5: a lot of weird, niche humor and stuff, but I

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Speaker 5: just feel like this stuff is not is not for

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Speaker 5: us or our demographic. But it's interesting to find out

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Speaker 5: about it secondhand. And then I'm lucky that I have

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Speaker 5: a kid.

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Speaker 3: Who's kind of entrenched in the stuff and I can

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Speaker 3: sort of run these things past.

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Speaker 5: But she thinks it's bizarre, and she made screenshots of

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Speaker 5: some choice ones because it's not just Binkie Doll, it's

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Speaker 5: dozens of them. And now if you look at like

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Speaker 5: live streams on TikTok, it's like almost all of them.

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Speaker 5: I mean, it's crazy how many people are doing this

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Speaker 5: kind of stuff.

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Speaker 2: Should the three of us become NPCs guys?

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Speaker 4: And no, god, well my main character energy Oh no.

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Speaker 5: To that point though, Matt, you know, there were some

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Speaker 5: funny video that were circulating maybe a year or two

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Speaker 5: ago of people cosplaying as NPCs, where it'd be like

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Speaker 5: a video of like a woman kind of walking around

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Speaker 5: in circles in a loop and then slowly entering a

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Speaker 5: grocery store, you know, like in this very you know,

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Speaker 5: intentional kind of NPC way, because you know, and again

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Speaker 5: NPC characters, they're not giving them the most tech, they're

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Speaker 5: not giving them the most like you know, dialogue.

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Speaker 3: They're not.

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Speaker 5: They're they're kind of a lesser element of a game usually,

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Speaker 5: So it's sort of the joke is that they're they're

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Speaker 5: always the most robotic and kind of uncanny, valley creepy

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Speaker 5: elements of games. So it's sort of easy to rag

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Speaker 5: on it. And there were some really funny ones. And

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Speaker 5: I'm sure you know your mem has a really great

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Speaker 5: page about this phenomenon, just beyond this whole TikTok thing.

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Speaker 5: But uh, I think, yeah, it's something to keep an

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Speaker 5: eye on, as we often say, and and and usually do.

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Speaker 3: But let's take a quick.

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Speaker 5: Break and hear a word from our sponsor and then

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Speaker 5: come back with some more strange news.

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Speaker 4: And we have returned. This is kind of a multi

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Speaker 4: level story and hopefully it is one that brings closure

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Speaker 4: to many many people. So for several years now, we

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Speaker 4: have been doing an unfortunately recurring series on serial killers

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Speaker 4: on the loose, murderers who through one means or another,

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Speaker 4: got away with their crimes or were never held account

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Speaker 4: for their actions. In many cases, a lot of these

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Speaker 4: monsters die, or they are arrested for another crime, or

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Speaker 4: in some cases they just ghost. The most famous of

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Speaker 4: these is probably Jack the Ripper in the West. Jack

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Speaker 4: the Ripper is not the killer with the highest amount

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Speaker 4: of victims, but he is probably the most well known.

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Speaker 4: When people think of serial killers, you know, they think

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Speaker 4: of a couple of like top like a top ten list.

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Speaker 4: Jack the Ripper will inevitably be on that list. And

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Speaker 4: I want to give a special shout out to my

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Speaker 4: pal David Murphy over on Instagram, who hipped me to

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Speaker 4: the first part of our serial killer exploration. Today, according

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Speaker 4: to an author named Sarah Bax Horton, Jack the Ripper's

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Speaker 4: identity may now be revealed by newly discovered medical records.

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Speaker 2: That's right.

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Speaker 4: Even a case from the nineteenth century can have new developments.

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Speaker 4: That's what we mean when we say we keep an

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Speaker 4: eye on things. Horton has a very interesting story. She's

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Speaker 4: a former police volunteer and her great great grandfather was

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Speaker 4: also a law enforcement He was a policeman deeply involved

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Speaker 4: in the original Ripper investigation, and she found some pretty

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Speaker 4: i won't say water tight yet, but found some incredibly

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Speaker 4: compelling evidence that appears to match contemporaneous witness descriptions of

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Speaker 4: Jack the Ripper. I want to give a special shout

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Speaker 4: out as well to Dalia Alberge over at the Telegraph. Dahlia,

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Speaker 4: I hope we're pronouncing your name correctly. So who does

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Speaker 4: she think it is? We can tell you right now.

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Speaker 4: She thinks it's a guy named Higham Hyamsam hyams He

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Speaker 4: lived in the area at the center of the murders.

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Speaker 4: He knew how to use bladed implements. He was epileptic,

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Speaker 4: he was an alcoholic, He was in and out of asylums,

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Speaker 4: and he received a traumatic brain injury that may have

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Speaker 4: altered his personality further and prevented him from holding down

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Speaker 4: a regular job for the time. He was quite abusive

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Speaker 4: toward his wife, quite paranoid. He was even arrested because

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Speaker 4: at one point he attacked his spouse and his mother

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Speaker 4: with what police described as a chopper. So I imagine that's

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Speaker 4: we could think of a meat cleaver, you know what

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Speaker 4: I mean? So this guy, how does she put this together?

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Speaker 4: So we know the witness descriptions, and we have in

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Speaker 4: fact talked about them many years ago. On this show,

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Speaker 4: Jack the Ripper appeared to be a man in his

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Speaker 4: mid thirties with a stiff arm and an irregular gate

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Speaker 4: with preternaturally bent knees. Horton discovered that medical notes about Hyam's,

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Speaker 4: who was thirty five and eighteen eighty eight. These records

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Speaker 4: show that he had an injury that left him unable

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Speaker 4: to bend or extend his left arm. He also had

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Speaker 4: an irregular walk and he couldn't straighten out his knees.

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Speaker 4: We also know that he had a very severe of

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Speaker 4: epilepsy and he had regular, not uncommon seizures. These notes,

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Speaker 4: which Horton gathers from all kinds of infirmaries and asylums,

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Speaker 4: show that you can literally map the decline the mental

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Speaker 4: decline of Higham Higham's with the escalation of Jack the

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Speaker 4: Ripper's killing period from when Hyams breaks his left arm

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Speaker 4: in February of eighteen eighty eight to his permanent committal

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Speaker 4: to asylum in September of eighteen eighty nine. He was

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Speaker 4: also known to be particularly violent after his epileptic fits,

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Speaker 4: which might explain the intervals between the murders. Let's pause

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Speaker 4: here real quick, Yeah, what do you guys think so far, Again,

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Speaker 4: this is not proven, but does it seem like it

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Speaker 4: might holdsome saund I.

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Speaker 5: Think so, especially like the detail about, you know, explaining

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Speaker 5: the interval between crimes. That always I think is a question,

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Speaker 5: right whenever you know an mo is determined, you know,

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Speaker 5: for example, with the Zodiac killer and the lag between crimes,

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Speaker 5: like a big question around that was is it the

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Speaker 5: right person? Was it someone who felt the police were

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Speaker 5: onto them and then decided to kind of cool down,

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Speaker 5: because usually those cool down periods are not that long.

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Speaker 5: And then there as a result of like you know,

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Speaker 5: the timing that maybe it would take between a drug

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Speaker 5: addict who needs another fix.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, serial killers are you know, per the FBI, part

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Speaker 4: of their they're partially defined by those intervals between their

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Speaker 4: heinous acts. I let's talk a little more too about

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Speaker 4: the timeline here. So as the Telegraph shows us, and

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Speaker 4: as Barton argues, Jack, the Rippers murders stopped at the

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Speaker 4: end of eighteen eighty eight, that's right around the time

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Speaker 4: that Higham's was picked up by law enforcement as a

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Speaker 4: quote and lunatic, and in eighteen eighty nine he was

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Speaker 4: locked up permanently in the Colney Hatch Lunatic Asylum in

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Speaker 4: North London and he was there until he died in

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Speaker 4: nineteen thirteen. After he got put away, Jack the Ripper

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Speaker 4: never struck again. Now that's a correlation, right, but it

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Speaker 4: may not. It may simply be a coincidence. We know

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Speaker 4: that there were many other people who were locked up

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Speaker 4: in asylums in that period, you know what I mean.

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Speaker 4: This was not an uncommon thing, and there is still,

432
00:25:33,720 --> 00:25:40,639
Speaker 4: Like there's so many theories revolving around specific suspects, you know,

433
00:25:40,800 --> 00:25:46,240
Speaker 4: like Walter sick Art comes up a lot. The fantastic

434
00:25:46,359 --> 00:25:51,240
Speaker 4: graphic novel and fantastic film adaptation of Jack the Ripper.

435
00:25:51,320 --> 00:25:52,560
Speaker 4: Oh gosh, what what from hell?

436
00:25:52,680 --> 00:25:53,040
Speaker 3: From hell?

437
00:25:53,400 --> 00:25:53,680
Speaker 5: Yeah?

438
00:25:53,760 --> 00:25:54,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah.

439
00:25:54,320 --> 00:25:59,040
Speaker 4: Then they go deep into the conspiracy theory regarding royal

440
00:25:59,080 --> 00:26:03,439
Speaker 4: involvement and cover ups. What was interesting here, guys, is

441
00:26:03,480 --> 00:26:08,439
Speaker 4: that Higham Hyams has been on this list before. People

442
00:26:08,440 --> 00:26:12,480
Speaker 4: had brought his name up, but they got into a

443
00:26:12,640 --> 00:26:16,440
Speaker 4: filo from Byzantium situation. This is the part I find

444
00:26:16,440 --> 00:26:19,680
Speaker 4: the hardest to believe. There was more than one Higham

445
00:26:19,720 --> 00:26:23,520
Speaker 4: Higham's they won died at the time, Like, how common

446
00:26:23,640 --> 00:26:27,679
Speaker 4: was the name back then, Higham Highams? It sounds made up.

447
00:26:27,720 --> 00:26:29,480
Speaker 4: It sounds like bad improv.

448
00:26:29,400 --> 00:26:32,920
Speaker 3: Is it of a Jewish origin? Is that a stereotypical question?

449
00:26:32,960 --> 00:26:34,600
Speaker 3: I'm sorry? Is that weird?

450
00:26:35,040 --> 00:26:37,800
Speaker 5: I only asked because it perhaps maybe is more of

451
00:26:37,840 --> 00:26:41,760
Speaker 5: a common name, you know, in that set than perhaps

452
00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:44,440
Speaker 5: what we might think of as traditional Londoners.

453
00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:48,840
Speaker 4: I see. And that's if they identify the right one,

454
00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:53,520
Speaker 4: because again they kept getting confused because there was more

455
00:26:53,560 --> 00:26:56,840
Speaker 4: than one Higham Higham's in play. Barton, in fact, in

456
00:26:56,880 --> 00:27:02,040
Speaker 4: her investigation, found five different dudes all named Higham Higham's,

457
00:27:02,520 --> 00:27:06,639
Speaker 4: and she had to sift through this confusion, this noise

458
00:27:07,119 --> 00:27:10,840
Speaker 4: to figure out what was going on. So our next question,

459
00:27:10,880 --> 00:27:14,080
Speaker 4: why wasn't that Why didn't people know about this earlier? Right,

460
00:27:14,200 --> 00:27:16,720
Speaker 4: it's been you know, a little bit of time since

461
00:27:16,800 --> 00:27:20,480
Speaker 4: the Jack the Ripper murders and since the killer got away.

462
00:27:21,240 --> 00:27:26,040
Speaker 4: But if we look at classifications, that's where we see

463
00:27:26,080 --> 00:27:31,560
Speaker 4: the explanation. Because to protect confidentiality of relatives and survivors,

464
00:27:32,280 --> 00:27:36,080
Speaker 4: two of the Hatch Asylum files on patients were closed

465
00:27:36,080 --> 00:27:41,760
Speaker 4: the public view until like twenty fifteen, so you wouldn't

466
00:27:41,760 --> 00:27:43,760
Speaker 4: have been able to learn this beforehand.

467
00:27:44,040 --> 00:27:45,560
Speaker 2: I just have to make the point. You're just going

468
00:27:45,600 --> 00:27:47,760
Speaker 2: back to how difficult it must have been to sift

469
00:27:47,760 --> 00:27:51,040
Speaker 2: through those five people, right, Because if you go right

470
00:27:51,080 --> 00:27:53,840
Speaker 2: now today to something like the White Pages or any

471
00:27:53,840 --> 00:27:57,560
Speaker 2: of these other purported you know, information gathering sites that

472
00:27:57,640 --> 00:28:02,359
Speaker 2: have personal information on everybody, like instant Checkmate or something, sure,

473
00:28:02,400 --> 00:28:05,119
Speaker 2: if you look up your own information, and I challenge

474
00:28:05,160 --> 00:28:08,280
Speaker 2: everybody to do this, look up your own information, and

475
00:28:08,320 --> 00:28:11,719
Speaker 2: there's a ton of stuff, probably in all likelihood, associated

476
00:28:11,760 --> 00:28:14,800
Speaker 2: with your name or a phone number you have or

477
00:28:14,840 --> 00:28:18,480
Speaker 2: an address that you've lived at one at one point

478
00:28:18,520 --> 00:28:22,960
Speaker 2: in your life. There's other stuff associated with your person

479
00:28:23,680 --> 00:28:26,080
Speaker 2: that has nothing to do with you, which I can

480
00:28:26,119 --> 00:28:29,439
Speaker 2: only imagine with the number of records we have today,

481
00:28:30,119 --> 00:28:33,479
Speaker 2: and it's very difficult to get true answers from a

482
00:28:33,520 --> 00:28:36,120
Speaker 2: service like that, if you are trying to go back

483
00:28:36,119 --> 00:28:41,440
Speaker 2: to the eighteen eighties, I mean, my god, that must

484
00:28:41,440 --> 00:28:43,040
Speaker 2: have been incredibly difficult work.

485
00:28:43,240 --> 00:28:45,440
Speaker 4: I mean, when you get to that point, you're looking

486
00:28:45,480 --> 00:28:51,240
Speaker 4: at handwritten records often right, and someone with a weird

487
00:28:51,400 --> 00:28:55,680
Speaker 4: style on their cursive s might throw off your whole case.

488
00:28:55,680 --> 00:28:58,960
Speaker 2: In records that someone decided they were important enough to keep.

489
00:28:58,920 --> 00:29:02,680
Speaker 4: Right, Yeah, or there are just so many variables that

490
00:29:02,720 --> 00:29:05,600
Speaker 4: can happen between the time a record is made and

491
00:29:05,760 --> 00:29:09,200
Speaker 4: the time someone decides to look back at it. It

492
00:29:09,440 --> 00:29:15,560
Speaker 4: is inevitable and quite frightening that there are answers to

493
00:29:15,640 --> 00:29:18,520
Speaker 4: lots of crimes that are locked away in archive somewhere,

494
00:29:18,600 --> 00:29:23,480
Speaker 4: and not necessarily as a result of malicious intent. Humans

495
00:29:23,560 --> 00:29:26,440
Speaker 4: are just information hoarders. They make a lot of stuff

496
00:29:27,120 --> 00:29:31,280
Speaker 4: and we want to hear your thoughts on the Jack

497
00:29:31,320 --> 00:29:35,600
Speaker 4: the Ripper investigation. We also want to point out that

498
00:29:35,720 --> 00:29:39,360
Speaker 4: Miss Bax Horton does have a book coming out on

499
00:29:39,440 --> 00:29:42,440
Speaker 4: this if you are interested in learning more. It is

500
00:29:42,440 --> 00:29:46,040
Speaker 4: called One Armed Jack, Uncovering the Real Jack the Ripper.

501
00:29:46,760 --> 00:29:49,800
Speaker 4: It will be coming out this summer. In full disclosure,

502
00:29:50,040 --> 00:29:52,440
Speaker 4: we have not read it, but I think we should

503
00:29:52,520 --> 00:29:55,320
Speaker 4: check it out. And that's not the only big serial

504
00:29:55,400 --> 00:30:00,400
Speaker 4: killer news this week. We have something that is incredibly

505
00:30:00,440 --> 00:30:06,360
Speaker 4: important to us and incredibly important to many many people. Again,

506
00:30:06,440 --> 00:30:09,240
Speaker 4: we want to focus on the possibility of justice, the

507
00:30:09,280 --> 00:30:14,160
Speaker 4: possibility of closure. Guys, remember we had in our in

508
00:30:14,200 --> 00:30:17,200
Speaker 4: one of our serial Killers on the Loose episodes, we

509
00:30:17,280 --> 00:30:22,200
Speaker 4: talked about what is sometimes called the Long Island serial killer,

510
00:30:22,600 --> 00:30:27,760
Speaker 4: the unidentified assailant in the Gilgo Beach serial killings. Quite

511
00:30:27,800 --> 00:30:33,000
Speaker 4: recently between nineteen ninety six and two thousand eleven, they

512
00:30:33,080 --> 00:30:37,400
Speaker 4: found someone. They finally found someone and arrested them. And

513
00:30:37,440 --> 00:30:39,480
Speaker 4: you guys remember this case, right, This is the one

514
00:30:39,520 --> 00:30:46,520
Speaker 4: where the guy seemed very organized, seemed to taunt people,

515
00:30:47,600 --> 00:30:50,840
Speaker 4: seemed to seem to know how to play law enforcement

516
00:30:50,960 --> 00:30:53,600
Speaker 4: a little bit, if we're being honest with red herrings,

517
00:30:54,480 --> 00:30:58,840
Speaker 4: misleading and just absolutely brutal, monstrous crimes.

518
00:30:58,720 --> 00:31:02,040
Speaker 2: If someone hunting sex workers. I think I remember seeing

519
00:31:02,080 --> 00:31:05,800
Speaker 2: it known as the Gilgo Beach killer, like when we

520
00:31:05,960 --> 00:31:08,160
Speaker 2: covered that episode, it was like an aka.

521
00:31:08,480 --> 00:31:12,720
Speaker 4: Yeah, gilg Beach serial killings. Also the killer is called

522
00:31:12,960 --> 00:31:16,880
Speaker 4: LISK or Long Island serial Killer. And they kept finding

523
00:31:17,400 --> 00:31:23,160
Speaker 4: more victims and for a long time, law enforcement and

524
00:31:23,320 --> 00:31:27,000
Speaker 4: families and relatives, everyone was at a loss. This person

525
00:31:27,240 --> 00:31:32,600
Speaker 4: seemed to have disappeared, but as of July fourteenth, a

526
00:31:32,760 --> 00:31:38,280
Speaker 4: Long Island architect named Rex Huerman has been arrested and

527
00:31:38,440 --> 00:31:42,840
Speaker 4: charged with the murders of three of the eleven victims

528
00:31:43,040 --> 00:31:48,120
Speaker 4: in the Gilgo Beach serial killings. They say they found

529
00:31:48,200 --> 00:31:52,320
Speaker 4: him because they matched DNA from a pizza he ate

530
00:31:52,840 --> 00:31:56,400
Speaker 4: to genetic material found on one of the victim's remains.

531
00:31:56,760 --> 00:31:58,240
Speaker 3: Well not to make light.

532
00:31:58,320 --> 00:32:00,320
Speaker 5: But I can't help but think of an episod of

533
00:32:00,360 --> 00:32:04,280
Speaker 5: The Sopranos where Aj and some of his delinquent friends

534
00:32:04,760 --> 00:32:08,920
Speaker 5: mess up vandalize the school and they link him to

535
00:32:08,960 --> 00:32:12,040
Speaker 5: the crime because of a pizza that they leave behind

536
00:32:12,160 --> 00:32:15,040
Speaker 5: that is a custom job that it's only made by

537
00:32:15,560 --> 00:32:15,960
Speaker 5: for AJ.

538
00:32:16,240 --> 00:32:19,040
Speaker 4: Sorry, no, no, it's a good point. They got Golden

539
00:32:19,080 --> 00:32:23,120
Speaker 4: State via what a coffee cup? I think the t

540
00:32:23,760 --> 00:32:27,960
Speaker 4: in the trash. And of course, to be fair, we

541
00:32:28,000 --> 00:32:31,200
Speaker 4: should tell you that usually when law enforcement gets to

542
00:32:31,280 --> 00:32:35,800
Speaker 4: the point that they're going through someone's trash for genetic material,

543
00:32:36,480 --> 00:32:41,600
Speaker 4: they already have several powerful indicators. They're not just your

544
00:32:41,640 --> 00:32:44,959
Speaker 4: local law enforcement is not just sitting around waiting for

545
00:32:45,000 --> 00:32:48,080
Speaker 4: you to dump your casse role or something like that,

546
00:32:49,280 --> 00:32:52,560
Speaker 4: unless they are. And if they are waiting, that's because

547
00:32:52,600 --> 00:32:56,640
Speaker 4: they think you did some bad badge and they might

548
00:32:56,680 --> 00:33:00,640
Speaker 4: be right. So this guy, obviously he pleads not guilty.

549
00:33:01,120 --> 00:33:04,280
Speaker 4: Another caveat, we have to add. Investigators for a long

550
00:33:04,320 --> 00:33:08,440
Speaker 4: time have said that it is highly unlikely that one

551
00:33:08,520 --> 00:33:12,520
Speaker 4: person would be responsible for the total eleven murders considered

552
00:33:13,360 --> 00:33:17,160
Speaker 4: considered to be the Gilgo Beach murders. We don't know

553
00:33:17,240 --> 00:33:22,360
Speaker 4: a ton right now about the investigations, ins and outs,

554
00:33:22,480 --> 00:33:25,160
Speaker 4: the nuts and bolts of it. But we do know

555
00:33:25,560 --> 00:33:29,240
Speaker 4: he was identified as a suspect at least as far

556
00:33:29,320 --> 00:33:32,840
Speaker 4: back as March twenty twenty two. They linked him to

557
00:33:33,040 --> 00:33:37,400
Speaker 4: a pickup truck that a witness reported seeing in the

558
00:33:37,520 --> 00:33:40,320
Speaker 4: night one of the victims disappeared. And there's a lot

559
00:33:40,360 --> 00:33:43,760
Speaker 4: of news that's still coming out. There's much more that's

560
00:33:43,800 --> 00:33:48,080
Speaker 4: going to come to light. It does appear were being

561
00:33:48,120 --> 00:33:52,360
Speaker 4: absolutely objective. It does appear not law enforcement is convinced

562
00:33:52,960 --> 00:33:55,720
Speaker 4: this man is a serial killer, even if he is

563
00:33:55,800 --> 00:34:00,120
Speaker 4: not responsible for all eleven murders. And the more matting

564
00:34:00,120 --> 00:34:02,280
Speaker 4: about this little off air two, like, the more you

565
00:34:02,360 --> 00:34:06,600
Speaker 4: learn about this guy, the worse he seems. He had

566
00:34:06,640 --> 00:34:11,160
Speaker 4: a double life. Burner phones. A story came out today

567
00:34:11,560 --> 00:34:16,719
Speaker 4: on the local ABC affiliate where a former escort named

568
00:34:16,760 --> 00:34:20,919
Speaker 4: Nikki Brass talks about having a date with him and

569
00:34:21,600 --> 00:34:24,680
Speaker 4: the vibe was very dangerous.

570
00:34:24,400 --> 00:34:27,200
Speaker 2: Like he was obsessed with this case, right, Yeah.

571
00:34:27,680 --> 00:34:30,239
Speaker 4: He asked her on the date if she had heard

572
00:34:30,280 --> 00:34:34,000
Speaker 4: about the Go Go Beach Murdersike.

573
00:34:33,560 --> 00:34:36,239
Speaker 2: You realize what we're doing right now, right, maybe let's

574
00:34:36,280 --> 00:34:37,040
Speaker 2: not talk about that.

575
00:34:38,200 --> 00:34:41,719
Speaker 4: Apparently he had a big smile, glossed over eyes, you know,

576
00:34:41,840 --> 00:34:45,319
Speaker 4: the double Z rose. That's the way Stephen King describes it.

577
00:34:46,200 --> 00:34:49,760
Speaker 4: He also on his burner phones would search for stuff

578
00:34:49,800 --> 00:34:53,080
Speaker 4: about the suspects. He would search for stuff about the case.

579
00:34:54,280 --> 00:35:00,239
Speaker 4: He also had depictions of sexual abuse of children, a

580
00:35:00,360 --> 00:35:04,000
Speaker 4: lot of sadism. This is a bad, bad dude. We're

581
00:35:04,000 --> 00:35:06,120
Speaker 4: going to keep an eye on this one as well,

582
00:35:06,880 --> 00:35:10,120
Speaker 4: and we will update as the case continues. But before

583
00:35:10,160 --> 00:35:13,000
Speaker 4: we go, what do you guys think? I mean, it

584
00:35:13,080 --> 00:35:14,960
Speaker 4: seems like did some of this It.

585
00:35:15,160 --> 00:35:17,960
Speaker 2: Seems that way from the reporting right. As always, we

586
00:35:18,040 --> 00:35:21,520
Speaker 2: have to remain you know, vigilant in that until stuff

587
00:35:21,600 --> 00:35:23,880
Speaker 2: is proven in a court of law, it might not

588
00:35:24,000 --> 00:35:26,120
Speaker 2: be what it purports to be or might not be

589
00:35:26,120 --> 00:35:28,400
Speaker 2: connected in the way we think. But it looks bad

590
00:35:29,120 --> 00:35:32,680
Speaker 2: and it reminds me a lot of BTK. Actually, the

591
00:35:32,719 --> 00:35:37,319
Speaker 2: whole double life thing, like a father, a husband, kind

592
00:35:37,360 --> 00:35:39,960
Speaker 2: of just living this whole other life.

593
00:35:40,400 --> 00:35:44,319
Speaker 4: Yeah, Dennis Radar, who also would have gotten away if

594
00:35:44,320 --> 00:35:48,600
Speaker 4: he hadn't been addicted and needed the attention and taunted

595
00:35:48,680 --> 00:35:52,560
Speaker 4: law enforcement. We're gonna this is dark, dark stuff, But

596
00:35:52,800 --> 00:35:56,319
Speaker 4: it is important to understand these investigations continue long after

597
00:35:56,360 --> 00:35:59,799
Speaker 4: the headlines disappear. We want to hear your takes for

598
00:36:00,440 --> 00:36:02,960
Speaker 4: we want to hear your thoughts on this both Jack

599
00:36:03,000 --> 00:36:06,279
Speaker 4: the Ripper and the Gilgo Beach killings one eight three

600
00:36:06,400 --> 00:36:10,520
Speaker 4: three std WYTK. You can also find us. We read

601
00:36:10,600 --> 00:36:13,919
Speaker 4: every email we get where we are Conspiracy adiheartradio dot Com.

602
00:36:13,920 --> 00:36:16,080
Speaker 4: We're going to pause for a word from our sponsors,

603
00:36:16,440 --> 00:36:19,719
Speaker 4: and we're going to be back with an unexpected lead

604
00:36:20,120 --> 00:36:23,480
Speaker 4: in another murder investigation. Matt, I don't know much about

605
00:36:23,480 --> 00:36:25,560
Speaker 4: this one. I can't wait to learn more.

606
00:36:25,560 --> 00:36:33,520
Speaker 3: Shame, and we've returned.

607
00:36:33,760 --> 00:36:36,799
Speaker 2: I'm going to read an ABC News article at the

608
00:36:36,840 --> 00:36:39,080
Speaker 2: top here and then go over some important information we

609
00:36:39,120 --> 00:36:42,280
Speaker 2: need to know before discussing further. That makes sense, guys.

610
00:36:42,719 --> 00:36:46,680
Speaker 2: The headline that you may have seen already is magazine

611
00:36:46,800 --> 00:36:51,680
Speaker 2: articles on Tupac Shakur's death among items seized from home

612
00:36:51,840 --> 00:36:57,920
Speaker 2: in murder investigation. Guys, the investigation into Tupac Shakor's murder

613
00:36:58,000 --> 00:37:03,120
Speaker 2: is moving forward actively. When police literally went into a

614
00:37:03,200 --> 00:37:06,680
Speaker 2: home and began removing evidence from that home, and it

615
00:37:06,760 --> 00:37:11,120
Speaker 2: happened this past Monday, as we're recording this on Monday,

616
00:37:11,280 --> 00:37:15,800
Speaker 2: July seventeenth. First of all, before we even get into

617
00:37:15,920 --> 00:37:20,400
Speaker 2: the details here. How nuts is it that, again, after

618
00:37:20,480 --> 00:37:23,520
Speaker 2: all this time, after all these years, since was that

619
00:37:23,640 --> 00:37:27,040
Speaker 2: was nineteen ninety six, there is in insane a house

620
00:37:27,120 --> 00:37:29,439
Speaker 2: actively being rated. What do you think?

621
00:37:29,840 --> 00:37:32,400
Speaker 5: And you can't help but think about, you know, the

622
00:37:32,440 --> 00:37:35,600
Speaker 5: fictional version of this, or like this person who's been

623
00:37:35,680 --> 00:37:39,000
Speaker 5: keeping this secret and hoarding magazine articles and you know,

624
00:37:39,400 --> 00:37:42,560
Speaker 5: like researching their own misdeeds and stuff. You know what

625
00:37:42,560 --> 00:37:44,880
Speaker 5: I mean, like going into a serial killer's layer and

626
00:37:44,920 --> 00:37:47,680
Speaker 5: there's articles with the red stringing up on the wall

627
00:37:47,760 --> 00:37:50,360
Speaker 5: and stuff. You know, that's just where my mind goes immediately.

628
00:37:50,760 --> 00:37:52,800
Speaker 2: It's like, well, we just talked about the serial killer

629
00:37:52,800 --> 00:37:55,719
Speaker 2: who was like obsessing over his own work right at

630
00:37:55,719 --> 00:37:56,400
Speaker 2: a dinner.

631
00:37:57,000 --> 00:37:57,320
Speaker 3: Yeah.

632
00:37:57,400 --> 00:38:01,680
Speaker 4: I mean, it's a very it's a very specific and

633
00:38:02,000 --> 00:38:06,600
Speaker 4: sickening kind of cognitive masturbation, is it not that that

634
00:38:06,800 --> 00:38:10,359
Speaker 4: self obsession? And and Matt you know, I'm I'm really

635
00:38:10,400 --> 00:38:15,920
Speaker 4: interested in this too, because we have to logically assume

636
00:38:16,960 --> 00:38:21,279
Speaker 4: that this being one of the most famous murders right

637
00:38:21,840 --> 00:38:25,080
Speaker 4: in that time, this would have also been something that

638
00:38:25,719 --> 00:38:30,040
Speaker 4: fascinated many people who are absolutely not involved in any

639
00:38:30,080 --> 00:38:34,239
Speaker 4: way with those events or may not even like hip hop.

640
00:38:34,360 --> 00:38:38,520
Speaker 4: For some reason like, it's it's not damning that someone

641
00:38:38,680 --> 00:38:43,520
Speaker 4: has magazines about Tupac by itself. You know. That's like

642
00:38:43,560 --> 00:38:45,520
Speaker 4: someone having a book about Princess Diana.

643
00:38:45,719 --> 00:38:48,840
Speaker 2: Doesn't exactly exactly.

644
00:38:48,280 --> 00:38:51,600
Speaker 5: And I didn't realize Matt that the actual shooter is

645
00:38:51,640 --> 00:38:56,600
Speaker 5: long thought to have been killed himself and another driveler alert.

646
00:38:57,280 --> 00:39:02,080
Speaker 2: Geez man, I'm just getting just kidding good. Yeah, exactly

647
00:39:02,280 --> 00:39:05,360
Speaker 2: literally two years after Tupac was killed. It is believed

648
00:39:05,600 --> 00:39:08,640
Speaker 2: this is one of the best working theories. Okay, this

649
00:39:08,800 --> 00:39:10,400
Speaker 2: is the way I think that's the best way to

650
00:39:10,440 --> 00:39:15,320
Speaker 2: phrase it, is that Tubac himself after leaving that boxing

651
00:39:15,640 --> 00:39:18,960
Speaker 2: match with sug Night in nineteen ninety six. Let me

652
00:39:18,960 --> 00:39:23,240
Speaker 2: get the actual date. September seventh, nineteen ninety six, he

653
00:39:23,440 --> 00:39:26,720
Speaker 2: was out in his car and he got shot while

654
00:39:26,760 --> 00:39:30,040
Speaker 2: he was sitting in a car by another vehicle that

655
00:39:30,120 --> 00:39:33,759
Speaker 2: drove by right and fired into his vehicle where he was.

656
00:39:34,200 --> 00:39:37,200
Speaker 2: He went to the hospital and then died six days later.

657
00:39:37,640 --> 00:39:40,760
Speaker 2: One of the best working theories is that his death

658
00:39:40,920 --> 00:39:45,240
Speaker 2: was directly linked to basically a gang war or gang

659
00:39:45,320 --> 00:39:50,400
Speaker 2: violence that was occurring between Tupac, other members of his group,

660
00:39:50,719 --> 00:39:54,800
Speaker 2: and some members of the Crips gang because I believe

661
00:39:54,800 --> 00:39:56,760
Speaker 2: correct me, I'm wrong here, guys, but I believe Tupac

662
00:39:56,840 --> 00:40:01,399
Speaker 2: was associated with the Blood's gang at least in some way.

663
00:40:01,800 --> 00:40:04,359
Speaker 2: I don't know all the details, but there's this guy

664
00:40:04,440 --> 00:40:09,480
Speaker 2: named Orlando Baby Lane Anderson who was supposedly the shooter,

665
00:40:09,680 --> 00:40:12,279
Speaker 2: or at least thought to potentially be the shooter, who

666
00:40:12,320 --> 00:40:15,000
Speaker 2: was in the vehicle that drove by when Tupac was

667
00:40:15,040 --> 00:40:19,120
Speaker 2: killed or shot. So let's talk about the new evidence

668
00:40:19,160 --> 00:40:22,640
Speaker 2: in why this house was searched. In twenty eighteen, there

669
00:40:22,760 --> 00:40:25,799
Speaker 2: was a Netflix series created by Kyle Long. It's called

670
00:40:25,960 --> 00:40:29,359
Speaker 2: Unsolved Colin the Tupac and Biggie Murders. There are ten

671
00:40:29,440 --> 00:40:32,239
Speaker 2: episodes of this series. It's on Netflix right now. You

672
00:40:32,280 --> 00:40:34,839
Speaker 2: can watch it if you'd like. And there is a

673
00:40:34,880 --> 00:40:39,520
Speaker 2: book from twenty nineteen titled Compton Street Legend by a

674
00:40:39,560 --> 00:40:42,680
Speaker 2: man named Dwayne Keith Davis who's also known as Keith

675
00:40:42,840 --> 00:40:45,799
Speaker 2: D or k e ff E D. Maybe that's not

676
00:40:45,840 --> 00:40:48,840
Speaker 2: how you say it. And the other writer of that

677
00:40:48,840 --> 00:40:51,920
Speaker 2: book is use of Jaw. Also sounds like a pen

678
00:40:52,000 --> 00:40:55,160
Speaker 2: name to me. But Keith d says that he's one

679
00:40:55,160 --> 00:40:59,120
Speaker 2: of the only two living eyewitnesses of this crime at

680
00:40:59,160 --> 00:41:01,799
Speaker 2: least according to his book and statements that he's made.

681
00:41:02,200 --> 00:41:06,360
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, isn't that that confluence of the book and

682
00:41:06,600 --> 00:41:09,160
Speaker 4: the docu saries you mentioned, isn't that part of what

683
00:41:09,400 --> 00:41:13,080
Speaker 4: spurred the new lag of investigation exactly.

684
00:41:13,239 --> 00:41:16,720
Speaker 2: It is strange that we're now four years removed even

685
00:41:16,800 --> 00:41:20,560
Speaker 2: from that book, and there's action being taken. To me,

686
00:41:20,640 --> 00:41:23,160
Speaker 2: that's a bit odd. I guess that means that the

687
00:41:23,239 --> 00:41:27,960
Speaker 2: investigation caught fire again at some point and someone somewhere

688
00:41:28,040 --> 00:41:30,479
Speaker 2: in the department said, hey, we need to actually chase

689
00:41:30,520 --> 00:41:33,160
Speaker 2: down some of these leads, some of these statements that

690
00:41:33,200 --> 00:41:36,600
Speaker 2: are made within both that book and in this series.

691
00:41:37,160 --> 00:41:40,600
Speaker 2: And there's an interview. According to Davis, he was driving

692
00:41:40,680 --> 00:41:44,680
Speaker 2: the vehicle that's associated with the shooting of Tupac Shakor,

693
00:41:44,760 --> 00:41:49,120
Speaker 2: that's drive by, and he describes hearing the gunshots from

694
00:41:49,160 --> 00:41:52,560
Speaker 2: behind him. Basically an open window in the person's city,

695
00:41:52,680 --> 00:41:54,799
Speaker 2: seated behind him as the one who was firing, is

696
00:41:54,840 --> 00:41:55,400
Speaker 2: what he's saying.

697
00:41:55,600 --> 00:42:02,480
Speaker 4: Do we do any more details about this residence in Vegas?

698
00:42:02,680 --> 00:42:07,040
Speaker 4: It's weird because they specifically went to this house. It

699
00:42:07,080 --> 00:42:11,040
Speaker 4: wasn't something they found in an unrelated investigation. Right, whatever

700
00:42:11,080 --> 00:42:13,600
Speaker 4: it was sent them to Henderson Nevada.

701
00:42:14,000 --> 00:42:16,320
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, exactly. I don't have a ton of information

702
00:42:16,480 --> 00:42:19,360
Speaker 2: I've got. The latest stuff I found was from ABC.

703
00:42:20,600 --> 00:42:27,080
Speaker 2: Shout out to Josh Markolin, Alex Stone, and Meredith Deliso Dealiso.

704
00:42:27,440 --> 00:42:30,400
Speaker 2: It was the one that I'm reading right now is

705
00:42:30,440 --> 00:42:35,520
Speaker 2: from July nineteenth, so yesterday as we record this, And

706
00:42:35,600 --> 00:42:38,680
Speaker 2: here's a quote from that article. In addition to the

707
00:42:38,719 --> 00:42:43,239
Speaker 2: magazine articles on TUPAC, items retrieved from the home included computers,

708
00:42:43,480 --> 00:42:47,120
Speaker 2: hard drives, and pictures from the nineteen nineties that apparently

709
00:42:47,120 --> 00:42:50,400
Speaker 2: show individuals who might have been connected to people directly

710
00:42:50,600 --> 00:42:54,360
Speaker 2: or indirectly involved in the drive by shooting. This is

711
00:42:54,520 --> 00:42:57,960
Speaker 2: according to an official there with the police. There were

712
00:42:57,960 --> 00:43:02,840
Speaker 2: also copies of the book Compton Street Legend. Again, a

713
00:43:02,840 --> 00:43:04,920
Speaker 2: lot of this stuff doesn't seem connected in any way

714
00:43:04,960 --> 00:43:08,279
Speaker 2: to an actual investigation, unless you're talking about those hard

715
00:43:08,360 --> 00:43:12,240
Speaker 2: drives and pictures that might have you know, someone writing

716
00:43:12,320 --> 00:43:16,040
Speaker 2: about the incident. Maybe, but somehow I doubt it.

717
00:43:16,080 --> 00:43:17,000
Speaker 3: I don't know, or.

718
00:43:17,000 --> 00:43:20,080
Speaker 4: Like if the book is annotated, Yeah, someone has been

719
00:43:20,160 --> 00:43:22,800
Speaker 4: dumb enough to write specifics in the margins.

720
00:43:23,040 --> 00:43:27,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, the house was in Henderson, Nevada. We don't know

721
00:43:27,360 --> 00:43:29,920
Speaker 2: a lot of other information Besides, it was a court

722
00:43:29,960 --> 00:43:35,479
Speaker 2: authorized search. It was Las Vegas Metro PD who was there,

723
00:43:35,760 --> 00:43:39,280
Speaker 2: and a SWAT team associated with that department.

724
00:43:39,960 --> 00:43:40,360
Speaker 3: I don't know.

725
00:43:40,440 --> 00:43:41,680
Speaker 2: That's really all I've got, guys.

726
00:43:42,120 --> 00:43:45,440
Speaker 4: So I'm reading these sources, man, and it looks like

727
00:43:45,640 --> 00:43:50,440
Speaker 4: they conducted the search, but there have been no arrest made.

728
00:43:50,520 --> 00:43:53,520
Speaker 4: And it also sounds like they went for shock and

729
00:43:53,600 --> 00:43:58,760
Speaker 4: awe with his search, like Bullhorn's light swat hold nine.

730
00:43:59,480 --> 00:44:03,120
Speaker 4: That's a lot to do if there's not a substance

731
00:44:03,160 --> 00:44:03,840
Speaker 4: to takeaway.

732
00:44:03,960 --> 00:44:07,040
Speaker 2: Well, it isn't in a rest or is it kind

733
00:44:07,080 --> 00:44:10,520
Speaker 2: of putting on a show because you know, perhaps you

734
00:44:10,640 --> 00:44:14,160
Speaker 2: even know for sure that the person who perpetrated this

735
00:44:14,239 --> 00:44:17,920
Speaker 2: crime is not there and you can't hold that person accountable.

736
00:44:18,440 --> 00:44:20,880
Speaker 2: But because this is such a high profile case, you

737
00:44:20,920 --> 00:44:23,720
Speaker 2: want to make a show of the fact that you're

738
00:44:23,880 --> 00:44:25,239
Speaker 2: you know, even looking into it.

739
00:44:25,320 --> 00:44:27,960
Speaker 4: Again, Yeah, there's some theater to it. I mean, logically,

740
00:44:28,000 --> 00:44:31,399
Speaker 4: swat makes sense too, because if they like someone for this,

741
00:44:31,640 --> 00:44:35,279
Speaker 4: then they would logically assume that person is armed, right,

742
00:44:35,480 --> 00:44:37,640
Speaker 4: they were certainly armed one night in the nineties.

743
00:44:38,480 --> 00:44:39,600
Speaker 3: This I don't know.

744
00:44:39,840 --> 00:44:43,319
Speaker 4: Yeah, the theatrical aspect does make sense, and that's that's

745
00:44:43,320 --> 00:44:45,759
Speaker 4: what I'm saying like it does feel that there is

746
00:44:45,800 --> 00:44:49,719
Speaker 4: some performative peace to this. So maybe maybe you're right.

747
00:44:49,760 --> 00:44:53,040
Speaker 4: Maybe it's a maybe it's a shaking the Bush's approach,

748
00:44:53,280 --> 00:44:55,520
Speaker 4: you know what I mean. Maybe they feel like they've

749
00:44:55,560 --> 00:44:59,120
Speaker 4: got the suspect treed and they're trying to get closer,

750
00:44:59,239 --> 00:45:00,200
Speaker 4: get in touch. Well.

751
00:45:00,280 --> 00:45:04,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, and there were other people in that vehicle besides Davis,

752
00:45:04,880 --> 00:45:07,760
Speaker 2: who you know has written the confession in the book

753
00:45:07,760 --> 00:45:12,560
Speaker 2: and then talked about it in that documentary, and Orlando Anderson,

754
00:45:12,719 --> 00:45:15,879
Speaker 2: you know, who is deceased. There's other people in that car,

755
00:45:15,920 --> 00:45:18,960
Speaker 2: so maybe they're going after one of them. Maybe that's

756
00:45:19,239 --> 00:45:20,120
Speaker 2: the point.

757
00:45:20,360 --> 00:45:23,239
Speaker 4: I don't know that makes sense again, right, it's all

758
00:45:23,280 --> 00:45:28,960
Speaker 4: about connecting people until you find the person who pulled

759
00:45:29,000 --> 00:45:31,560
Speaker 4: the trigger and the person who ordered it.

760
00:45:31,680 --> 00:45:31,839
Speaker 1: Right.

761
00:45:31,920 --> 00:45:32,160
Speaker 3: Yeah.

762
00:45:32,160 --> 00:45:35,360
Speaker 4: And there's still there's just still so many questions about this,

763
00:45:35,600 --> 00:45:40,080
Speaker 4: so many allegations of corruption and law enforcement, you name it.

764
00:45:40,080 --> 00:45:42,120
Speaker 4: There's still a lot of directions this could go in.

765
00:45:42,400 --> 00:45:42,920
Speaker 3: It's true.

766
00:45:43,080 --> 00:45:45,399
Speaker 2: Something I didn't even think about, guys, is that the

767
00:45:45,480 --> 00:45:49,279
Speaker 2: actions they're taking may actually have something to do with

768
00:45:49,600 --> 00:45:54,800
Speaker 2: the death of Christopher Wallace, A Notori's big Maybe maybe

769
00:45:54,800 --> 00:45:57,399
Speaker 2: that's kind of what this is about, rather than going

770
00:45:57,480 --> 00:45:59,960
Speaker 2: after somebody they knows deceased in the death of Tupac.

771
00:46:00,280 --> 00:46:04,440
Speaker 4: Yeah, and that that assassination happened shortly after the murder

772
00:46:04,440 --> 00:46:07,920
Speaker 4: of Tupac Shakor Christopher Wallace has killed a March ninth,

773
00:46:08,200 --> 00:46:09,160
Speaker 4: nineteen ninety.

774
00:46:08,880 --> 00:46:12,680
Speaker 5: Seven, and those a long thought to have been related hits,

775
00:46:12,719 --> 00:46:13,720
Speaker 5: you know, retaliatory.

776
00:46:13,960 --> 00:46:16,799
Speaker 4: Oh, yeah, exactly, and that one's in LA And they

777
00:46:16,840 --> 00:46:19,680
Speaker 4: were both so young, man, It's.

778
00:46:19,600 --> 00:46:21,520
Speaker 3: Isn't it weird? You know, we were kids when this

779
00:46:21,520 --> 00:46:22,240
Speaker 3: stuff happened.

780
00:46:22,440 --> 00:46:22,600
Speaker 4: You know.

781
00:46:22,640 --> 00:46:25,160
Speaker 5: It's the same with like Kurt Cobain, for example, And

782
00:46:25,200 --> 00:46:28,000
Speaker 5: in my mind, I always think of Kurt Cobain as

783
00:46:28,000 --> 00:46:31,520
Speaker 5: being this like older guy, you know, and now we're

784
00:46:31,560 --> 00:46:34,239
Speaker 5: all in our thirties looking back, and these guys were

785
00:46:34,239 --> 00:46:38,040
Speaker 5: in their twenties, and we just it's this time is weird.

786
00:46:38,360 --> 00:46:38,839
Speaker 3: That's all.

787
00:46:39,040 --> 00:46:42,600
Speaker 4: There's one important point that we always need to bring

788
00:46:42,680 --> 00:46:47,080
Speaker 4: up in these conversations. And I hate to have to

789
00:46:47,160 --> 00:46:50,680
Speaker 4: make it because it does sound somewhat like a just

790
00:46:50,760 --> 00:46:55,359
Speaker 4: thing to say, but it's true. What if law enforcement

791
00:46:55,520 --> 00:46:59,000
Speaker 4: treated the murder of everyone in the country the way

792
00:46:59,040 --> 00:47:02,960
Speaker 4: they treat the murder of celebrities like that's you know,

793
00:47:03,000 --> 00:47:06,839
Speaker 4: I'm thinking about this, like, let's say God forbid in

794
00:47:07,400 --> 00:47:11,120
Speaker 4: US recording in us in the audience today. What if

795
00:47:11,160 --> 00:47:15,960
Speaker 4: you lost someone close to you, wouldn't you hope that

796
00:47:16,120 --> 00:47:19,880
Speaker 4: police continue investigating years and decades after If that's what

797
00:47:19,960 --> 00:47:23,680
Speaker 4: it takes to find the person responsible, I just I

798
00:47:23,719 --> 00:47:24,839
Speaker 4: don't know how to fix it.

799
00:47:24,960 --> 00:47:28,880
Speaker 2: Man. Well, the problem is the reward for solving Tupac's

800
00:47:28,960 --> 00:47:33,640
Speaker 2: murder is a book or three movie about you where

801
00:47:33,760 --> 00:47:37,160
Speaker 2: some star plays you the you know, the reward for

802
00:47:37,280 --> 00:47:40,840
Speaker 2: that is massive on the level of the investigator, and

803
00:47:40,880 --> 00:47:44,239
Speaker 2: once you retire, you've got a full retirement plan. Now,

804
00:47:44,480 --> 00:47:47,120
Speaker 2: if you solve the murder, yeah, yeah, if you solve

805
00:47:47,160 --> 00:47:51,080
Speaker 2: the murder of you know, someone like us, a random person,

806
00:47:51,680 --> 00:47:55,960
Speaker 2: you don't really get anything besides hey, good job, detective.

807
00:47:56,480 --> 00:47:57,080
Speaker 2: I mean, that's it.

808
00:47:57,239 --> 00:47:59,680
Speaker 5: One more red case off the board, as they say

809
00:47:59,680 --> 00:48:01,000
Speaker 5: and cop shows.

810
00:48:01,080 --> 00:48:05,759
Speaker 4: So we got to change the reward somehow, yeah, or

811
00:48:06,840 --> 00:48:10,000
Speaker 4: convince people not to murder each other. Let's start with

812
00:48:10,000 --> 00:48:10,560
Speaker 4: the rewards.

813
00:48:10,680 --> 00:48:13,240
Speaker 1: The rewards feels like both.

814
00:48:13,000 --> 00:48:16,000
Speaker 4: Are ambitious steps, but the rewards feels a little bit

815
00:48:16,880 --> 00:48:17,600
Speaker 4: less out of reach.

816
00:48:17,719 --> 00:48:19,560
Speaker 2: Feels that way to me too. All right, Well, that's

817
00:48:19,600 --> 00:48:22,880
Speaker 2: it for this. There will be updates right at some

818
00:48:23,080 --> 00:48:27,040
Speaker 2: point from Las Vegas or from Henderson, Nevada. But we'll

819
00:48:27,120 --> 00:48:29,920
Speaker 2: keep an ear out. You do two and uh yeah,

820
00:48:30,080 --> 00:48:31,520
Speaker 2: we'll come back with more if we get it.

821
00:48:32,000 --> 00:48:36,120
Speaker 4: And we may be getting new leads from you folks again.

822
00:48:36,160 --> 00:48:40,040
Speaker 4: You are our favorite part of this show and we

823
00:48:40,120 --> 00:48:46,560
Speaker 4: get so many fantastic and disturbing stories from your fellow

824
00:48:46,600 --> 00:48:51,560
Speaker 4: conspiracy realist, So join up. We want you to contact

825
00:48:51,719 --> 00:48:52,520
Speaker 4: us at.

826
00:48:52,280 --> 00:48:53,799
Speaker 3: Any number of.

827
00:48:55,360 --> 00:49:01,440
Speaker 4: Doorways, platforms, crossroads, at mid port holes, portholes, you know, balustrades,

828
00:49:02,280 --> 00:49:03,960
Speaker 4: just or you can just find us online.

829
00:49:04,000 --> 00:49:04,319
Speaker 3: That's right.

830
00:49:04,360 --> 00:49:06,359
Speaker 5: You can find us at the handle conspiracy stuff, where

831
00:49:06,360 --> 00:49:11,040
Speaker 5: we exist on YouTube, Twitter, and Facebook, where conspiracy Stuff

832
00:49:11,040 --> 00:49:14,680
Speaker 5: show on Instagram, and yes, TikTok, where you will definitely

833
00:49:14,719 --> 00:49:20,080
Speaker 5: not be seeing us doing any NPC streams. Speak for yourself, Hey,

834
00:49:20,320 --> 00:49:23,279
Speaker 5: I'll tune in, buddy. You can get a you can

835
00:49:23,320 --> 00:49:25,440
Speaker 5: get an ice cream moji from me.

836
00:49:26,040 --> 00:49:28,799
Speaker 2: Yes, I don't know what that means, still kind of

837
00:49:28,840 --> 00:49:31,680
Speaker 2: but not really yum yum or good ice.

838
00:49:31,520 --> 00:49:33,520
Speaker 3: Cream ice cream so good.

839
00:49:33,880 --> 00:49:39,120
Speaker 2: Call one eight three three std WYTK. It's a voicemail system.

840
00:49:39,160 --> 00:49:42,640
Speaker 2: You will be speaking directly to us. You've got three minutes.

841
00:49:42,680 --> 00:49:45,120
Speaker 2: Give yourself a cool nickname. If you'd like to have

842
00:49:45,200 --> 00:49:47,759
Speaker 2: your name and message on the air, please let us

843
00:49:47,800 --> 00:49:50,879
Speaker 2: know that you give us permission to do that. Just say, hey,

844
00:49:50,920 --> 00:49:52,440
Speaker 2: you can use my name and message on the air.

845
00:49:52,719 --> 00:49:55,040
Speaker 2: It's that simple. If you don't want to call, why

846
00:49:55,120 --> 00:49:57,520
Speaker 2: not instead send us a good old fashioned email.

847
00:49:57,719 --> 00:50:19,359
Speaker 4: We are conspiracy at iheartrate dot com.

848
00:50:19,520 --> 00:50:21,560
Speaker 2: Stuff they don't want you to know. Is a production

849
00:50:21,680 --> 00:50:26,200
Speaker 2: of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

850
00:50:26,280 --> 00:50:29,160
Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.