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Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha. I'm not going to

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Speaker 1: stuff I've never told you, a protection of iHeart Radio,

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Speaker 1: and today in our I don't know, a third rendition

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Speaker 1: of which movie classics during this month. There's a lot.

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Speaker 1: I'm very excited about all of it. Uh, we thought

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Speaker 1: we'd bring back our episode we did on which pointation

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Speaker 1: which in it we specifically focused for about half of

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Speaker 1: it on this movie called The Love, which which I

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Speaker 1: really enjoy. Oh you should see it. It is. It

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Speaker 1: is a very bizarre film. I will say that is

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Speaker 1: quite bizarre, but I really really enjoyed it. It has

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Speaker 1: a lot of stuff about periods. You know, I gotta

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Speaker 1: chalk out about that of course. Yeah. Yeah, it's a

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Speaker 1: It's a very fascinating film and recommended, as I say

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Speaker 1: in this episode by a listener. So thank you, because

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Speaker 1: we always do take these recommendations into account, and you

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Speaker 1: listeners have turned me on to some pretty amazing stuff,

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Speaker 1: So thank you. Um, but yes, please enjoy this classic episode. Hey,

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Speaker 1: this is Annie and Samantha, and welcome to stuff. I

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Speaker 1: never told you prediction of I Heart Radio, so this

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Speaker 1: fun it was something I'd never heard of but definitely

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Speaker 1: should have known. It was a thing, but you brought

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Speaker 1: it to my attention, Samantha today we're talking about which ploytation, right, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I was very of course, I was in my world

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Speaker 1: of twitter verse and there was several uh whether it

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Speaker 1: was I think she was publishing some books and doing

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Speaker 1: some speaking and then below was talking about wish ploitation,

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Speaker 1: which I was like, whoa, oh, oh what is this?

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Speaker 1: And he must know and I just started to texting,

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Speaker 1: you know, I was like, Hey, let's talk about this

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Speaker 1: because this sounds really interesting, especially since we seem to

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Speaker 1: be really into witches right now. And by the way,

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Speaker 1: they're killing it at the protests, like they're there and

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Speaker 1: go ahead, which is yes, yes, um. It's a long

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Speaker 1: history of which is in protesting, which we'll touch on

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Speaker 1: a little bit in this one, and when we have

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Speaker 1: touched on it before, and yeah, we've been doing a

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Speaker 1: lot of which content lately. We did the craft. We

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Speaker 1: did a witch, um, right, so we thought we could

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Speaker 1: do more. We have a big list. We do have

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Speaker 1: a big list that it's not a lie, so as

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Speaker 1: we love to do at the start with the definition

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Speaker 1: in a literature cinema, the use of the craft are

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Speaker 1: more broadly paganism in general for sensationalistic usually horror inducing ends. Um.

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Speaker 1: And this is from the Mapping Contemporary Cinema website, which

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Speaker 1: I found a lot of great content on. If you're interested, um,

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Speaker 1: it might help us to define the exportation film genre

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Speaker 1: at large two and give a bit of that history.

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Speaker 1: So these films emerged in the nineteen thirties and at

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Speaker 1: the time they were uh verging on pornographic often described

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Speaker 1: as the film version of freak shows, and they usually

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Speaker 1: came with some heavy handed moral messaging. They frequently used

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Speaker 1: pornographic images to condemn pornography, for example, playing on what

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Speaker 1: audiences wanted, what they thought was forbidden, and then getting

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Speaker 1: away with it under the guys that ultimately they were

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Speaker 1: condemning these things, i e. The sexy lady would die

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Speaker 1: for being sexy. A simple definition of exportation films is

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Speaker 1: something that is in quote bad taste for the time. Yeah. So,

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Speaker 1: by the time the sixties rolled around, exploitation films had

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Speaker 1: evolved from the strip tease to the nudity blatantly looking

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Speaker 1: to stir up feelings that were disturbing and arousing. The

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Speaker 1: moral lesson was out the window, and this happened to

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Speaker 1: coincide with the renewed interest in which is wicker the

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Speaker 1: occult and in part driven by the psychedelic community. Here

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Speaker 1: we see the rise of which ploitation films. So let's

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Speaker 1: talk about which is One of the most recent examples

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Speaker 1: of mass which burning was the Salem which trials of

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Speaker 1: the sixteen hundreds, culminating in the death of fourteen women.

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Speaker 1: But our cultural interest never truly went away, as we

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Speaker 1: see it all the time, Yes, as we keep talking

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Speaker 1: about it ourselves. Also Asterix, there are a lot of

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Speaker 1: people use the term which burning to call to encompass

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Speaker 1: any kind of killing of which is in the sand

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Speaker 1: which trials I believe it was hanging um. But yes,

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Speaker 1: the death the execution of which is if we step

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Speaker 1: back to eighties, it is best selling witch hunting manual

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Speaker 1: Malleus Maleficarum, written by Catholic inquisitors and theologians. We can

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Speaker 1: see the long history our society has of fearing female agency.

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Speaker 1: Here is a quote from that book. When a woman

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Speaker 1: thinks alone, she thinks evil, which I can't deny. But

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Speaker 1: come uh. He claimed that women were having sex with

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Speaker 1: devils and demons and writing on broomsticks. A k a

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Speaker 1: uh dildos, which was troublesome because it implied that these

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Speaker 1: women didn't need a man. Look, I know, horror of horrors.

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Speaker 1: The book addresses it directly in quote how as it were,

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Speaker 1: which is deprived men of his virile member. Uh. Yes,

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Speaker 1: And it goes on. And what then is to be

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Speaker 1: thought of those witches who, in this way sometimes collect

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Speaker 1: male organs in great numbers, as many as twenty or

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Speaker 1: thirty members together, and put them in a bird's nest,

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Speaker 1: or shut them up and up box where they moved

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Speaker 1: themselves like living members and oats and corns. But as

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Speaker 1: has been seen by many, and it is a matter

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Speaker 1: of common report right there, right, that's like a pet

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's really funny now their modern eyes. But

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Speaker 1: yes they I mean they were killing people. Um from

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Speaker 1: the mid fourteen hundreds of sixteen hundreds, yes, which hunting

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Speaker 1: resulted in the death of up to one hundred thousand

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Speaker 1: in Europe. About eight percent of those deaths were women,

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Speaker 1: many who lived in some way on the outside of society, healers, midwives,

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Speaker 1: those who lived alone or poor or widowed, or in

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Speaker 1: some way controlled or owned property. Those who complained if

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Speaker 1: they weren't religious. Um Torture usually followed, including an examining

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Speaker 1: of the body for a third nipple and a vaginal

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Speaker 1: teat where it was believed that women milk gave their

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Speaker 1: milk to like goats and rabbits and stuff, and they

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Speaker 1: found guilty death by fire, beheading or hanging, so the

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Speaker 1: examination was an autopsy after they died. No, this was

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Speaker 1: before hands. Yeah. Interesting. Interesting, So historians believe which hunting

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Speaker 1: had to do with Europe's and later America's need to

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Speaker 1: control women's bodies, surprise, and their ability to reproduce. Of course,

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Speaker 1: within the sanction family structure for capital and labor, their

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Speaker 1: ability to produce more workers, and this included the bodies

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Speaker 1: of enslaved black women as well. Enslaved women of childbearing

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Speaker 1: age were called an increase because they could increase potential

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Speaker 1: wealth of the owner. Women who quote did not need

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Speaker 1: a man who weren't having children for one reason another

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Speaker 1: were a threat the Maliu's mouth Acaram addresses this directly too,

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Speaker 1: so quote how which does imp and prevent the power

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Speaker 1: of procreation? And quote which is who are midwives in

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Speaker 1: various ways kill the child conceived in the womb and

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Speaker 1: procure an abortion or if they did not, this offer

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Speaker 1: newborn children to the devil obviously. Jeez oh. And I

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Speaker 1: just want to put in here too. We're not focusing

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Speaker 1: on it today, but there is a witch hunting tradition

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Speaker 1: outside of Western culture. Uh. And I know I read

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Speaker 1: some about what has happened in India and Africa. Would

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Speaker 1: love to come back to that too, but pretty much

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Speaker 1: focusing on Europe in America for today. Um. In four four,

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Speaker 1: Pope Innocent the Eighth, who I would bet everything I

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Speaker 1: have was not innocent everything I have? Um? He claimed

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Speaker 1: that which is quote by their incantations, spells, conjurations and

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Speaker 1: other accursive superstitions and horrid charms, enormities and offenses destroy

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Speaker 1: the outspring of women. They hinder men from generating and

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Speaker 1: women from conceiving. How dare they? Yes? Terrible? As Sylvia

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Speaker 1: Frederici concluded in her two thousand four work Caliban and

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Speaker 1: the witch witch hunts fueled by misogyny were one of

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Speaker 1: the building blocks of capitalism and our modern state. Along

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Speaker 1: with land and other natural resources, Women's bodies and enslaved

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Speaker 1: bodies were exploited for capitalistic profit. Previous feminist thinkers argued too,

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Speaker 1: that the targeting of midwives in particular was a way

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Speaker 1: of making women dependent on male doctors for knowledge about

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Speaker 1: their own bodies, something that continues to this day. If

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Speaker 1: we think about who is creating an upholding laws about

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Speaker 1: our reproductive rights restrictions around childcare and paid leave. In

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Speaker 1: this context, the rise of digital covens casting hexes on

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Speaker 1: Donald Trump and Brett Kavanaugh makes sense too. And the

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Speaker 1: few of witches seen in churches saying protective spells to

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Speaker 1: save them from hexes. I actually didn't know that happened

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Speaker 1: until doing this research. Well, I mean, that's what's happening

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Speaker 1: apparel in this protest churches are like praying. And also

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Speaker 1: I don't know about the churches praying to get the

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Speaker 1: protectors away from the hexas. But which is our sending

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Speaker 1: out Texas? Okay? I was like, Yeah, if they hear

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Speaker 1: that there are which is out there's that's gonna be

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Speaker 1: somewhere somebody it's going to be doing this. I'm I'm betting.

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Speaker 1: So we started to see a mark resurgence in which

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Speaker 1: is in our media in the nineteen sixties and seventies,

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Speaker 1: and there was one main difference though, instead of old hags.

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Speaker 1: These new witches were seductresses, young and sexy. Gone was

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Speaker 1: an old woman and the threat to fertility she symbolized

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Speaker 1: replaced with the threat of female sexuality scary something to

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Speaker 1: be feared and obviously punished because you gotta and the

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Speaker 1: new which was something to be consumed by who else

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Speaker 1: men and of course then discarded. Yes. Some prime examples

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Speaker 1: include the nineteen seventy two film of the Version which

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Speaker 1: the film follows a model who gets all mixed up

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Speaker 1: with the covin of lesbian, which is of course it

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Speaker 1: was endorsed by a British adult magazine, if that tells

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Speaker 1: you anything. Um. This was a typical plotline of which

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Speaker 1: sportation films. Young woman is seduced by witchcraft somehow and

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Speaker 1: this frees her from her sexual inhibitions. They usually have

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Speaker 1: elements of softcore porn and horror. The which is power,

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Speaker 1: the fear she held over men. It was turned into

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Speaker 1: something that served their pleasure, and she eventually was punished

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Speaker 1: for that power. Bitchcraft is another example from the seventies.

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Speaker 1: Um and the Mark of the Devil a nineteen seventies

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Speaker 1: German film about an Austrian witch hunter, and it came

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Speaker 1: with the promise that it would set your stomach. I

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Speaker 1: believe it's set on the poster guaranteed to upset your stomach. Interesting, indeed,

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Speaker 1: very interesting. So that's kind of a rundown of exportation

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Speaker 1: films and some witch ploitation films. We do have some

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Speaker 1: more for you, but first we have a quick break

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Speaker 1: for word from our sponsor m and we're back. Thank

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Speaker 1: you sponsor, And we're back with something a lot of

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Speaker 1: you listeners have written in about, so I'm excited to

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Speaker 1: talk about it. Yeah. So, as we've discussed in previous episodes,

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Speaker 1: which is are having a cultural reno songs, one that

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Speaker 1: seems to crust and fall every decade or more so.

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Speaker 1: One move that came up in our research and a

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Speaker 1: few of you have suggested we check out is The

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Speaker 1: Love which by Annabiller. It presents a feminist take on

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Speaker 1: the whole witch ploittation thing. And here's the plot. A

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Speaker 1: beautiful young witch named Elaine cast a love spell to

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Speaker 1: find her perfect match. It doesn't turn out why she imagined,

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Speaker 1: and leads to a murder spree and a brush with sanity.

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Speaker 1: Of course, while there are signs of our modern day,

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Speaker 1: much of it involves the style of sixties which ploitation film.

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Speaker 1: The rituals are shot with the same attention frequently given

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Speaker 1: to the female body in these films, and while her

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Speaker 1: body is exposed in certain ways, imagery around her menstrual cycle,

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Speaker 1: for instance, is not done for pornographic purposes, is done

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Speaker 1: to illustrate dual power and the vulnerability of female body.

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Speaker 1: The director has expressed her frustration that her previous films

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Speaker 1: were labeled as sexploitation instead of critics on those films

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Speaker 1: that borrowed some of their styles to underline the point,

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Speaker 1: and we can see that here in this one. Elaine

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Speaker 1: is wooden in the way she speaks, in acts, stilted,

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Speaker 1: in one dimensional. She was in love with the idea

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Speaker 1: of love. But every time my suitor shows any real

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Speaker 1: emotion towards her, she kills them whoops, and she doesn't

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Speaker 1: understand it either, resorting to a spell. Really, she's more

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Speaker 1: interested in power. She's what women so frequently are in

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Speaker 1: poor movies, one dimensional, rendering without emotions. She even says

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Speaker 1: that you have to give men secks and that that's love.

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Speaker 1: But the movie is on it totally self aware. It

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Speaker 1: flips the stereotype and every time that man shows emotions,

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Speaker 1: she's the one that can't take it. Yeah. I really

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Speaker 1: enjoyed watching this movie. And the first time I watched it,

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Speaker 1: I was like, man, she's just like flat out saying

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Speaker 1: really sexist things. And the person she's talking to, Trish,

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Speaker 1: is like you you've been brainwashed by the patriarchy, And

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Speaker 1: was like, oh, whoa what is this movie? There? It is?

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Speaker 1: It's true. Um, here's the quote from Alice and Anders

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Speaker 1: at Talk House. Fear of the female planet rules the

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Speaker 1: men and the love which they not only recoiled the

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Speaker 1: side of a bloody tamp on one cop doesn't even

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Speaker 1: know what it is. It continues to amaze me how

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Speaker 1: ministruation is still such a taboo and cinema. Thank you

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Speaker 1: someone else who agrees with my whole theory that it's

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Speaker 1: all about male writer's fear of the female period. Um,

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Speaker 1: it's a marvelous delight to see the male characters and

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Speaker 1: only not in charge of the narrative, but disempowered and frivolous.

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Speaker 1: It's hard to feel sorry for any of them, honestly,

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Speaker 1: and that's really really fun for a change, to see

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Speaker 1: the men as the one dimensional characters, the ones we

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Speaker 1: find hard to take seriously the uninteresting ones, and I

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Speaker 1: love the so Further, Biller has called Elaine a quote glamor,

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Speaker 1: which but in a sense of the true meaning of

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Speaker 1: the word. The relationship between filming and allure and magic,

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Speaker 1: but in our culture has gotten reduced to superficial appearances.

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Speaker 1: So this uses in the film provides commentary on how

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Speaker 1: female power has been reduced down to beauty and a

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Speaker 1: facade of power quick and fading. Elaine even flashes back

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Speaker 1: to her ex husband, praising her for wearing makeup and

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Speaker 1: for losing weight, equating her artificial power to her looks,

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Speaker 1: and the camera frequently zooms in on her eye makeup

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Speaker 1: as she cast spells, suggesting her power comes from this artificiality,

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Speaker 1: and when the magic has done his job, the makeup

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Speaker 1: has shown smeared. Mm hmmm um. The film also critiques

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Speaker 1: our media representation of witchcraft and paganism. The male leader

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Speaker 1: of the Covin is the one who lectures the female

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Speaker 1: members on how to get men in power. This was

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Speaker 1: another Steamer was like, wait, what is happening here? Um?

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Speaker 1: He says, you know you've got to wear makeup, You've

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Speaker 1: got to use your sexuality Elaine's joining ritual is played

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Speaker 1: off much more as an abusive thing, with the leader

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Speaker 1: having sex with her while the others watch. Um. This

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Speaker 1: movie came out three days after the election, and Biller

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Speaker 1: said about it as soon as the election happened that

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Speaker 1: the reviews became very different, and those scenes with the

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Speaker 1: near rape and the crowd shouting burn the Witch, that

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Speaker 1: all feels pretty Trumpian all of a sudden. Um, and

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Speaker 1: our previous feminist movie, Friday Pick the Bitch comes up

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Speaker 1: a lot in which pointation conversation too, is another example

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Speaker 1: of turning that stereotypical narrative that trope on its head.

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Speaker 1: Feminism does end up as part of this conversation quite

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Speaker 1: a bit, which makes sense given how often conversations around

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Speaker 1: which is involved feminism, as you could tell when we've

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Speaker 1: been talking about on the movie. For example, there are

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Speaker 1: the hashtag, which is of Instagram, a group looking to

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Speaker 1: introduce people to the craft by spreading information via social media,

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Speaker 1: and they post it called images, often with Faminus captions.

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Speaker 1: And there's this quote from Rachel Mosley's Glamorous Witchcraft, Gender

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Speaker 1: and Magic and Teen Film and Television. The myth of

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Speaker 1: the which is essentially a product of male fears, historical

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Speaker 1: stories warned of, which is crash shading men of unbalancing

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Speaker 1: patriarchal structures, which is which. Yes, we do have a

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Speaker 1: little bit more for you listeners, but first we have

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Speaker 1: one more cup break for word from our sponsor and

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Speaker 1: we're back, Thank you sponsor. Something else we wanted to

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Speaker 1: touch on was the rise of black millennial women practicing

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Speaker 1: witchcraft and particularly African rituals. And there's actually someone eaves

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Speaker 1: Um is trying to put me in contact with who

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Speaker 1: works at Georgia Tech who knows all about this, and

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Speaker 1: I would love to talk to her. Um. Yeah. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Many of these black women describe it as empowering. And

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Speaker 1: along with that, we've seen an anxiety around white women

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Speaker 1: appropriating or continuing to appropriate UH African rituals. You can

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Speaker 1: even hear it uh in Princess Nokia's song Brujas Everything

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Speaker 1: You've got you got from us. So in twenty fifteen,

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Speaker 1: Lakisha Harris formed a digital coven called Black Witch Chronicles,

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Speaker 1: and in she opened a Black Witch University with the

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Speaker 1: goal of reclaiming African traditions and concepts when it comes

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Speaker 1: to witchcraft. Vice quoted her as saying Audrey Lord says,

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Speaker 1: the master tools will never dismantle the Master's House. So

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Speaker 1: what will dismantle the Master's house? Your tools, Go and

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Speaker 1: reclaim your tools, your magical dismantle the Master's House. And

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Speaker 1: they have podcasts, So if you want to check it out,

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Speaker 1: you definitely should. Yes, Yes, in a very very teen

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Speaker 1: nut show. African American witchcraft is thought to originate with

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Speaker 1: the West African yoruba Um religious traditions centered on ancestors

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Speaker 1: and deities. Once enslaved with African people's were forcibly brought

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Speaker 1: over to colonial America or combined and involved with Western

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Speaker 1: religions like Catholicism, also largely forcibly eventually giving birth to

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Speaker 1: things like voo doo and who do. And There's been

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Speaker 1: a long history of exotstizing and fetishizing and othering of

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Speaker 1: witchcraft practiced by black people, and we see that play

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Speaker 1: out in our media. While which is in general empowered

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Speaker 1: in our media, black witches are often one dimensional characters

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Speaker 1: that prop up the main white witches storyline, and many

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Speaker 1: are culturally problematic and or depict evil villains terrorizing good

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Speaker 1: white people. This speaks to not only the lack of

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Speaker 1: representation but continue fear of the power and agency of

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Speaker 1: black women. Yes. Um, always we always suggest being critical

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Speaker 1: of your media and it's messaging. Do your research. UM.

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Speaker 1: I have a good friend who says, you know, she

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Speaker 1: has kids, and before she shows her kids anything, even

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Speaker 1: if she remembers it fondly, Uh, worth a rewatch because

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Speaker 1: you don't. You might not remember something in there. It

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Speaker 1: doesn't mean don't show it, but you know, have that

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Speaker 1: conversation if you need to of problematic messaging or or

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Speaker 1: don't show it, you know, right. I was gonna say,

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Speaker 1: I think our new game and our generation has become well,

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Speaker 1: I guess it's every generation honestly, when we think of

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Speaker 1: things fondly as children and we rewatch it and you're like,

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Speaker 1: oh my god, why didn't my parents let me watch this? Yes? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: some of it has been shocking, honestly, like oh wow, um,

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Speaker 1: interesting messaging in this one, um. And certainly as we

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Speaker 1: are seeing this resurgence in which is in our media,

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Speaker 1: found a lot of examples of black which is more

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Speaker 1: fully developed, well formed characters. And we would love suggestions

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Speaker 1: from listeners. I really appreciate the love which suggestion. Spot

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Speaker 1: On loved it. Um, so if you have any more

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Speaker 1: for us to to check out or that we should

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Speaker 1: share with the sminty audience, please send them to us.

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Speaker 1: You can send them to Stuff Media Mom Stuff at

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Speaker 1: i heeart media dot com. You can also find us

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Speaker 1: on Twitter at momsff podcast or on Instagram and Stuff

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Speaker 1: I Never Told You. Thanks as always to your super

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Speaker 1: producer Andrew Howard, and thanks to you for listening Stuff

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Speaker 1: I Never Told You, the production of I Heart Radio.

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Speaker 1: For more podcasts from I Heart Radio, vis I Heart

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Speaker 1: Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your

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Speaker 1: favorite shows,