Speaker 1: BBC SuDS. Hey, h'm Maggie. Just a quick heads up
Speaker 1: before we start. The series does contain some descriptions of
Speaker 1: violence and deals with adult themes.
Speaker 2: His ar murder has a Northwest Harance County neighborhood on edge.
Speaker 2: A couple celebrating a wedding anniversary found tied up in
Speaker 2: Sanford closets. The husband had been stabbed to death tonight.
Speaker 2: Investigators have plenty of questions about this that happened, as
Speaker 2: we see on this.
Speaker 3: So we get the news on and I see the
Speaker 3: newscasts of Jim.
Speaker 1: When Tammy Armstrong switches on the evening news, she cannot
Speaker 1: believe what she's seeing.
Speaker 3: And as that's their house, that's their house, and I
Speaker 3: was scared to death.
Speaker 1: Her best friend, Sandy Melgar's place is wrapped in police
Speaker 1: tape and swarming with cops.
Speaker 2: And that's where Local two is. Andy Sirote is his
Speaker 2: lab with the latest on this story, Handy Bill.
Speaker 4: Residents in this quiet community still baffled over a bizarre
Speaker 4: mystery involving two of their neighbors like this.
Speaker 3: Then I just start screaming hysterically and crying, and Tom's
Speaker 3: turning it up louder and they said that he had
Speaker 3: been murdered in that house.
Speaker 1: Tammy and her husband Tom had been entertaining friends that evening.
Speaker 1: After they'd seen the last of their guests out. They
Speaker 1: were ready to collapse on the sofa, but then their
Speaker 1: son in law called, urging them to switch on the TV.
Speaker 3: Then I just start screaming, where's Sandy. They're not saying
Speaker 3: a thing about Sandy. Where's Sandy? What happened to her?
Speaker 3: What did they do to her?
Speaker 1: Tammy rings sandy cell, no reply. She rings the house again. Nothing.
Speaker 1: She tries over and over. Next she rings around the
Speaker 1: hospitals in Houston, and.
Speaker 3: I called all of them. Then Tom called the policeations
Speaker 3: in the police station said, no, she's not here. Of
Speaker 3: course she wants there.
Speaker 1: What Tom and Tammy don't know is that Sandy's phone
Speaker 1: has been taken into evidence. Well, she's questioned by the police.
Speaker 3: And so then we could do nothing. But I said,
Speaker 3: we'll stay dressed, We'll stay on top of the covers
Speaker 3: and just lay here and wait, saying prayers and crying
Speaker 3: and waiting to hear from my friend. Tom's phone rang
Speaker 3: about I think four in the morning or something.
Speaker 1: They're both still awake, lying fully dressed on the bed.
Speaker 3: He picks it up first ring and he goes, yes,
Speaker 3: it's a minute, and he hands it to me and
Speaker 3: Sandy's voice is so faint. She was Tammy. I said yeah.
Speaker 3: She goes, do you know, and I said yes, I know, sweetie,
Speaker 3: I know. I said where are you? And she goes,
Speaker 3: they brought me back here. I said they who? And
Speaker 3: I said you're at your house? And she is yes.
Speaker 1: The police dropped Sandy back at home at three forty
Speaker 1: five am on Christmas Eve.
Speaker 3: And I said we'll be right there. She says okay,
Speaker 3: and she clicked off and I told him, I said,
Speaker 3: I can't believe they took her back. She's at the house.
Speaker 3: And so we jump in the car and we drive
Speaker 3: over there and get there.
Speaker 1: When Tammy and her husband arrive at the Melgar's house,
Speaker 1: they have to push their way through the massive reporters
Speaker 1: and cameras gathered outside.
Speaker 4: Friends and relatives say fifty two year old Haimimelgar had
Speaker 4: no enemies, and tonight they are rallying around his broken
Speaker 4: hearted widow.
Speaker 3: We're just trying to christ you know. Reporters in front,
Speaker 3: and we go under the yellow tape and go in
Speaker 3: and Sandy's sitting on her sofa and she's holding her dog, Lola,
Speaker 3: the Pomeranian, and she's so so so pale, and her
Speaker 3: skin is so blanched and she can barely talk. And
Speaker 3: I said, Sandy, have you had your medicine? I said,
Speaker 3: you're going to have a seizure. I said, and you're dry,
Speaker 3: you're dehydrated, running get a bottle of water on the fridge,
Speaker 3: A hander water. So where's your medicine, honey, she says,
Speaker 3: And she can tell me. So I started to go
Speaker 3: to her bedroom. Don't go in there, and I said,
Speaker 3: I won't look.
Speaker 1: Jim's body was found in a closet connected to that bedroom.
Speaker 3: He was gone, but the blood I didn't see it.
Speaker 3: I wouldn't look, but Tom said it was. It was horrendous.
Speaker 3: All they had done was removed Jim. Lola had blood
Speaker 3: on her and fingerprinting stuff and all that was all
Speaker 3: over Lola. She's pure white. And her puppies were crying
Speaker 3: and barking in the yard and Sandy was just sitting
Speaker 3: on the couch with hardly anything on, freezing, just sitting there, shaking.
Speaker 1: Tammy searches for draw for Fenno barbadal. That's Sandy's prescription
Speaker 1: anti seizure medication. She can't find any.
Speaker 3: And I said, well, whoever did this obviously knew that
Speaker 3: phenom barbital is the drug take And I said, because
Speaker 3: that's gone. She goes, oh, I had my full prescription.
Speaker 1: Tammy locates some tablets tucked away and gives one to Sandy.
Speaker 3: And I just grabbed a couple of things for her
Speaker 3: put on and wrapped her in a blanket and we
Speaker 3: got the dogs and got her out of there.
Speaker 1: Tammy and Tom decide to take Sandy back to their house,
Speaker 1: hoping it will be a refuge from the crime scene
Speaker 1: and from the pack of reporters we're.
Speaker 4: Just trying to get as a statement. Sandra Melgar saw
Speaker 4: comfort today and the arms of a friend in the
Speaker 4: wake of her husband's bizarre murder.
Speaker 3: She was and the lights. They started taking pictures and
Speaker 3: she just started shaking and shaking it. And I wrapped
Speaker 3: her tightly and threw the blanket even more of her head,
Speaker 3: and we get her into the car and you know,
Speaker 3: put it in the back, slam the door, and they're
Speaker 3: asking for a statement. Thirty two years with the anniversary,
Speaker 3: there's Aunt that's Tammy.
Speaker 1: She's sitting in the front seat of the car, shielding
Speaker 1: her eyes from the glare of the cameras, her face
Speaker 1: twisted in anguish, all for viewers at home to see
Speaker 1: as journalists cramble around trying to question her and Sandy murder.
Speaker 4: She was unable to speak from the backseat of this
Speaker 4: car where we saw her wrapped in a blanket laying
Speaker 4: down Stewart.
Speaker 3: And we left and they said, where are you taking it?
Speaker 3: Where are you taking her?
Speaker 1: Back at her house, Tammy put Sandy in a hot
Speaker 1: shower to warm up. She's freezing cold, and.
Speaker 3: She kept saying, I still smell it, I still smell it.
Speaker 3: And I said, what are you smelling the here? She
Speaker 3: has the blood, so much blood, Tammy, so much blood.
Speaker 3: But when I was washing her hair for her, there
Speaker 3: was a bump, a big noot on her head as
Speaker 3: a Sandy, we need to go to er, and I said,
Speaker 3: I don't know what they did to you, and she
Speaker 3: said I can't, I can't, and she was crying, and
Speaker 3: don't take me to another cold, hard place.
Speaker 1: So they try to get some rest instead, and.
Speaker 3: I got her under the electric blanket and she slept
Speaker 3: with me and Tom slipped in the guest room and
Speaker 3: she stayed awake all night. She was crying, saying, how
Speaker 3: could they do this to him? How could they do this?
Speaker 3: And then she said, what am I going to do
Speaker 3: without him? He's everything? And I said, I know. Then
Speaker 3: at one point, all of a sudden, she goes tell
Speaker 3: me they think I did this. And I thought she
Speaker 3: was just babbling, you know, shock. I said, that's ridiculous,
Speaker 3: you were tied up. I said, no one would ever
Speaker 3: think that you did this. That's the most ridiculous thing
Speaker 3: I've ever heard. And I said, who thinks you did this?
Speaker 3: And she goes the police.
Speaker 1: I'm Maggie Robinson Katz and from BBC's Studios and iHeart podcasts.
Speaker 1: This is Hands Tied, episode three, Homecoming.
Speaker 5: I could have left a guy here this Christmas Day.
Speaker 5: It was the twenty fifth when we landed.
Speaker 1: By the time Liz and her husband land in Texas,
Speaker 1: her mom, Sandy, is already at Tammy's house and has
Speaker 1: already been quizzed by the police about her dad Jim's murder.
Speaker 5: I think I was completely in shock the whole time.
Speaker 5: I mean I broke down on the plane a few times,
Speaker 5: and when I was picked up from the airport. I
Speaker 5: think that's when it hit me, but not entirely, because
Speaker 5: I feel like I was in shock for years.
Speaker 1: A cousin picks them up at George Bush International Airport,
Speaker 1: and a wave of emotion and relief hits Liz because
Speaker 1: sitting in the backseat of the car is Sandy. After
Speaker 1: hours of frantic worrying about her mom, at least here
Speaker 1: she is. She's not in a good way, though.
Speaker 5: Yeah, my mom just like falls apart and she's got
Speaker 5: bruises all down her arms, and asking her what happened,
Speaker 5: and I mean she was just bawling, she was just crying.
Speaker 1: They get back to Tammy's house, which has become the
Speaker 1: gathering place for all of Sandy's relatives and friends.
Speaker 5: So I didn't flat out say what happened because I
Speaker 5: didn't want to make her talk about this right if
Speaker 5: she wasn't ready.
Speaker 1: Slowly, Sandy tells Liz what she remembers about the events
Speaker 1: leading up to Jim's death.
Speaker 5: At that moment, I remember thinking, you're sitting in this
Speaker 5: bathtub right with the person that you think you're spending
Speaker 5: the rest of your life with. You're talking about what
Speaker 5: you're about to do now that he's retired, your plans,
Speaker 5: all this stuff, and then he gets up to go
Speaker 5: let the dogs in, and the next thing you wake
Speaker 5: up and your whole life has been turned upside down.
Speaker 5: And I just remember that thought going through my head
Speaker 5: over and over again.
Speaker 1: Sandy tails Liz about the police interview.
Speaker 5: Didn't they take you to the hospital. No, you know,
Speaker 5: she thought she'd had a seizure, she had a bump
Speaker 5: on her head. She said that they had interrogated her,
Speaker 5: that they wanted her to do a light detector test.
Speaker 5: She said, no, I'm too stressed and frazzled right now.
Speaker 5: I will not pass a light detector test. It all
Speaker 5: felt very wrong.
Speaker 1: Liza's head is spinning. It's a lot to process. Her
Speaker 1: dad is dead, and it seems like her mom is
Speaker 1: a suspect.
Speaker 3: It's a lot.
Speaker 5: It's more than most people can handle, too much for
Speaker 5: one person.
Speaker 1: She's drained, exhausted, jet lagged, barely recovered from the miscarriage
Speaker 1: she's just had. But now that seems like an eternity ago,
Speaker 1: and these most desperate of circumstances, she turns to the
Speaker 1: person who she could always rely on to keep a
Speaker 1: cool head in a crisis her dad.
Speaker 5: My dad was always telling me how important it is
Speaker 5: not to get too emotional about things, and to step
Speaker 5: back and separate yourself and try and look at things
Speaker 5: from this perspective that isn't emotional or biased.
Speaker 3: Like Jim.
Speaker 1: Liz isn't a panicer, so she channels his calm, logical brain.
Speaker 1: And there's her other superpower. Those true crime books she
Speaker 1: obsessed over as a teenager, which led her to study
Speaker 1: neuroscience in England, knowledge which she has stored up and
Speaker 1: can now put to use.
Speaker 5: It was definitely already cynical about the police. I already
Speaker 5: was very distressing of them. And you're taught to believe
Speaker 5: that they're going to help you, right there there to
Speaker 5: help you and they want to make sure you get
Speaker 5: justice or whatever bullshit that they tell you.
Speaker 3: But I have.
Speaker 5: Seen how they've treated other people. And then you know,
Speaker 5: reading these like true crime accounts where sometimes the police
Speaker 5: have released victims back into their killers custody, or you know,
Speaker 5: usually they don't listen when it's somebody who is not white,
Speaker 5: or you know, who's not in authority. I don't know,
Speaker 5: there's just different circumstances, right, So I was very familiar
Speaker 5: with these types of interactions, and we started from there.
Speaker 1: Liz swings into action. First, she wants to find out
Speaker 1: how her dad died, so she tracks down a number
Speaker 1: for the medical examiner.
Speaker 5: I remember calling the NY's office and trying to get
Speaker 5: some information. So I called the detective and they asked
Speaker 5: if they could come see me at Tom and Tammy's house.
Speaker 5: I said, okay.
Speaker 1: It's the day after Christmas, twenty twelve, and two detectives
Speaker 1: are outside Tom and Tammy's house in Houston.
Speaker 3: They knock at our door. Sandy's in the back, and
Speaker 3: she immediately starts trembling and shaking.
Speaker 1: It's the same two detectives who interviewed Sandy, Deputy Carousel
Speaker 1: and Sergeant to say.
Speaker 3: So, I stayed back there with her, and I'm like,
Speaker 3: you don't have to go out. They'll be seeing to
Speaker 3: the front room. You don't have to see them.
Speaker 1: But it's okay because they're not here to see Sandy,
Speaker 1: they're here to talk to Liz. Liz records the interview
Speaker 1: using a tablet she'd given her husband Anthony for Christmas.
Speaker 1: This was twenty twelve. Applets were high tech and more
Speaker 1: than a decade later, Liz and I are in my
Speaker 1: hotel room in Wimbledon, London, listening back to that recording Semumer.
Speaker 6: Twenty six, twenty twelve, case number one two one seventy
Speaker 6: six two six' Nine Sean kerzelhairrishetty homicide Sixty henry forty
Speaker 6: two also with me as my, Partner sergeant do, say
Speaker 6: And i'm gonna let the other two witnesses here identify.
Speaker 6: Themselves manage and identify, Yourself Elizabeth melgarth, okay and this
Speaker 6: is your? Husband, yeah your Name Anthony.
Speaker 1: Rose did they know that you were? Recording?
Speaker 5: YEAH i told THEM i was going to.
Speaker 1: Record IF i was in your shoes in that, POSITION
Speaker 1: i don't THINK i would have the foresight to do.
Speaker 5: THAT i really don't know what made me do. IT
Speaker 5: i guess just like mistrust and making sure THAT i
Speaker 5: remembered what we had said and what we had talked,
Speaker 5: about BECAUSE i felt LIKE i was in such shock
Speaker 5: that you know, what IF i forgot EVERYTHING i had
Speaker 5: said AND i forgot something.
Speaker 6: Important have you talked about been to your? Mother what
Speaker 6: did your mother have to?
Speaker 5: Say she's just in complete. Shock she has a hard
Speaker 5: time remembering things as.
Speaker 3: It is because of the.
Speaker 5: Seizures she's got a well documented history of lucas and
Speaker 5: epilepsy for the past twenty something. Years and she basically
Speaker 5: just told me that the, Police, well she woke up
Speaker 5: and she was trying to sit up and.
Speaker 7: Get out of the, closet but she has had.
Speaker 5: Hip replacements and she has a lot of joint, problems
Speaker 5: so she really couldn't, move and she didn't know how
Speaker 5: long she had been, There SO i mean.
Speaker 7: She said that the police took her.
Speaker 5: In, well they told my family that they were taking
Speaker 5: to the, hospital AND i spent hours calling hospitals trying
Speaker 5: to find, her and it turned out that they didn't
Speaker 5: take her. There it wouldn't give her, medication and she
Speaker 5: was there for twelve.
Speaker 7: Hours and stress brings on, seizures and so does lack of,
Speaker 7: sleep SO i was a bit worried about her. Health
Speaker 7: she's quite in a quite gradual state right.
Speaker 1: Now you sound so clear and so concise and so.
Speaker 1: PRESENT i think it's probably.
Speaker 5: Just like angry THAT i had to deal with these
Speaker 5: idiots and angry at the way they had treated.
Speaker 1: Her time has not Softened liz's feelings towards the. Police
Speaker 1: you do.
Speaker 6: Know that we had a messenal that check her out, medication,
Speaker 6: Right but the doctor and them that saw her there
Speaker 6: at the, scene they had cleared everything before we even
Speaker 6: spoke to.
Speaker 1: Her how can you, SO i see you shaking your. Head,
Speaker 1: yeah because he's saying there was a doctor on.
Speaker 5: Scene there was no doctor on. Sine there were some
Speaker 5: mts On.
Speaker 1: Zene Emergency medical technicians.
Speaker 5: EMTs aren't, trained you, know to deal with this sort of.
Speaker 5: Situation they're not going to have her medication for. Her
Speaker 5: they should have taken her to the.
Speaker 1: Hospital liz thinks That sandy was in no fit state
Speaker 1: to decide for herself if she needed to go to the,
Speaker 1: hospital she should have been taken.
Speaker 5: Anyway she doesn't know what's going, on she's not thinking.
Speaker 5: Clearly she should have never been in that room answering
Speaker 5: questions in that state and without a.
Speaker 1: Lawyer, yeah it.
Speaker 5: Was just it was very frustrating because they were just
Speaker 5: lying to my face LIKE i was this idiot who
Speaker 5: had no, idea and that LIKE i was just going
Speaker 5: to buy, it and it was so. Insulting it was
Speaker 5: so insulting and just went like adding insult to.
Speaker 3: Injury and you understand.
Speaker 6: That we're not pointing fingers at anybody, here but we're
Speaker 6: trying to we're trying to get as much informational we
Speaker 6: can't because it's either. Way we have either we're looking
Speaker 6: at a possible suspect entered her, home and we're trying
Speaker 6: to look at every angle.
Speaker 7: HERE i just don't appreciate the way my mother was
Speaker 7: treated like.
Speaker 5: That she, WAS i, mean she said that the police
Speaker 5: were basically we're just, saying you, know you did?
Speaker 3: It was he?
Speaker 7: Abusive was he having an? Affair was this? Happening was that?
Speaker 6: Happening, no here's the.
Speaker 1: DEAL i look At liz and pause the. RECORDING i, mean.
Speaker 5: He's denying, everything and then you get to the interrogation
Speaker 5: footage and Everything i've said is.
Speaker 6: True the questions are, asked, okay but you have to,
Speaker 6: remember and it's how somebody perceives the. Question we have
Speaker 6: to know if somebody was out to hurt your. Father,
Speaker 6: okay the way you take that question is the way
Speaker 6: however you're going to take. It but that's our. Job
Speaker 6: we have to figure out kill.
Speaker 5: HIM i think she probably had a seizure and that
Speaker 5: probably freaked out whoever was, there and maybe they thought
Speaker 5: they killed her by hitting her on the.
Speaker 6: HEAD i don't, know, WELL i mean that could. Be
Speaker 6: that could be the, case and that's WHY i need to.
Speaker 6: Know like with her condition And i'm not saying that
Speaker 6: she could black out and all that. Stuff it could,
Speaker 6: happen BUT i need to know if she's ever going
Speaker 6: to remember, it because if she could ever remember a,
Speaker 6: suspect that's the best thing for me and him because
Speaker 6: then we have a description and everything. Else right, now
Speaker 6: at this, point we have.
Speaker 3: Nothing i've been asking, Trying.
Speaker 6: We're trying to solve the, case And i'm trying to
Speaker 6: look for answers just that anything that can help us
Speaker 6: out because that now we don't, know we know, nothing
Speaker 6: and everybody is a.
Speaker 3: Suspect at a, point the police Till.
Speaker 1: Liz they're keeping an open mind and that they need her.
Speaker 1: Help they ask if she'll be going back to her parents',
Speaker 1: house do me.
Speaker 6: A favor when you're, there get a tablet out anything
Speaker 6: you think is, missing because we need to start searching
Speaker 6: for the eydos that are. Missing somebody came in and stole.
Speaker 6: It if somebody come in and going to steal, stuff
Speaker 6: if you have OLD tv the manuals to them that
Speaker 6: has a serial, number or anything like that to it
Speaker 6: bring it all to, us because we can start searching
Speaker 6: for those items if they've been, pawned they've been sold.
Speaker 7: So meticulous he has all. That i'm sure he has
Speaker 7: all those things in his house.
Speaker 6: Somewhere see and how your mother and father a? Relationship
Speaker 6: how has it been in this past?
Speaker 5: Great, okay they were just celebrating their thirty second money. Anniversary,
Speaker 5: alrighty it's twelve.
Speaker 6: Thirty he's gonna be the end of.
Speaker 1: The interview lasts thirteen. Minutes any sort of final thoughts
Speaker 1: after replaying that whole.
Speaker 5: THING i was probably like too nice and like accommodating
Speaker 5: and just letting them get away with the bullshit that
Speaker 5: they were trying to feed. Me hindsight's always twenty. Twenty
Speaker 5: BUT i didn't know WHAT i know.
Speaker 1: Now everyone kind of thinks they know how they'll react
Speaker 1: in a high pressure. Situation we think we'll do the honorable,
Speaker 1: thing or we'll keep our composure in some way or
Speaker 1: something like. That but when we're faced with the reality
Speaker 1: of it, ALL i think we'd surprise, ourselves and not
Speaker 1: always in the best. Way i've mentioned before THAT i
Speaker 1: can kind of understand What lissa's experiencing BECAUSE i also
Speaker 1: took on an investigation around my own dad's. Mystery growing.
Speaker 1: Up my dad was a. Businessman in, FACT i learned
Speaker 1: the word entrepreneur very early. On he always wanted to
Speaker 1: be a, musician but pivoted that desire towards, radio owning
Speaker 1: several stations and even pioneering the first radio network to
Speaker 1: provide twenty four hour music programming via. Satellite so a
Speaker 1: pretty amazing, career. Right my dad was filled with stories
Speaker 1: from the time he turned down hanging out With paul,
Speaker 1: McCartney which was a major, regret to producing a radio
Speaker 1: program With John. Candy and to answer the question that
Speaker 1: may have popped into your, head, YES i did grow up.
Speaker 1: Rich but in twenty, eleven out of seemingly, nowhere my
Speaker 1: dad was diagnosed with colon cancer and died just a
Speaker 1: few weeks, later revealing a secret he'd been keeping for.
Speaker 1: Years he was, broke the two thousand and eight real
Speaker 1: estate crash wiping him, out but there could possibly be
Speaker 1: something to pull him out of this financial. Hole for
Speaker 1: over a, decade my dad would talk to this guy
Speaker 1: in The philippines about gold hidden in the. Jungle this
Speaker 1: guy told my dad he represented the Former filipino Dictator
Speaker 1: Ferdinand marcos and was the executor of his. Will he
Speaker 1: had access to treasure hidden in the jungle worth trillions of,
Speaker 1: dollars and with just a modest investment to help get
Speaker 1: said gold out of said, jungle my dad would be
Speaker 1: wealthy beyond his wildest. Dreams my dad and the, sky
Speaker 1: almost eight thousand miles, away would have nearly nightly phone.
Speaker 1: Calls my dad would take notes using pen and, paper
Speaker 1: keeping track of important, details numbers and, people but later
Speaker 1: he transitioned to taping them. TAPES i got access to
Speaker 1: a couple of years after his. Death thank you for
Speaker 1: calling the event street in, health.
Speaker 8: Yes Mister, stuckey or in two or three.
Speaker 1: Place there's hundreds of, them all following the same. Pattern
Speaker 1: my dad, dials says the day and time on the,
Speaker 1: recording and the phone. Rings this guy in The philippines picks,
Speaker 1: up and.
Speaker 6: So what?
Speaker 1: Happened, well and give some updates that really don't make any.
Speaker 1: Sense generals decided.
Speaker 8: They didn't want to take it up Until monday. Morning
Speaker 8: general got afraid to do, it and just too many
Speaker 8: people get.
Speaker 1: Killed for a. While from that over, here as the years,
Speaker 1: PROGRESS i hear the timbre of my dad's voice start
Speaker 1: to shift. Morning what started as maybe a fun hobby
Speaker 1: for rich guy became his last saving grace after losing
Speaker 1: all of his money in the market crash of two
Speaker 1: thousand and. Eight if these deals can come, through then
Speaker 1: my dad would be back on.
Speaker 8: Top don't don't get angry with. Me it's for it's four.
Speaker 8: O'clock it's with. You i'm up with the. World, well
Speaker 8: but what it's done to me has been. Devastating you,
Speaker 8: KNOW i didn't ask for. THIS i didn't ask for you.
Speaker 9: KNOW i was told that this is all that pipe
Speaker 9: cinch and what it's doing is just slowly killing. Me
Speaker 9: and and you, KNOW i feel bad for, you but this.
Speaker 6: Is just.
Speaker 8: It's it's been all these.
Speaker 9: YEARS i just this is gonna.
Speaker 8: Happen it's gonna.
Speaker 3: Happen though.
Speaker 5: Happen it's going.
Speaker 8: WELL i hope so bad what he's.
Speaker 10: Doing over here.
Speaker 1: Now he never got the money and died thinking his
Speaker 1: family would never forgive him for losing. Everything this didn't
Speaker 1: sit well with, me SO i decided to go on
Speaker 1: my own, quest fly to The philippines and meet this
Speaker 1: man on the other end of the. Line SOMETHING i
Speaker 1: found myself Telling liz about years later in a hotel
Speaker 1: room In wimbledon In. LONDON i, mean LIKE i, remember you,
Speaker 1: know like the PODCAST i did about my, DAD i
Speaker 1: like confronted my dad's con, artist and like this fancy
Speaker 1: hotel In, manila AND i had like a bodyguard because
Speaker 1: they told me that he was probably gonna kill me
Speaker 1: or like try to kill. Me and there was a
Speaker 1: part WHERE i was kind of able to like disassociate
Speaker 1: and just like kind of be. There but WHEN i
Speaker 1: listened to, it or like WHEN i listened to my
Speaker 1: interview with, HIM i thought the same thing about, myself
Speaker 1: WHERE i THOUGHT i was way too, nice way too,
Speaker 1: accommodating like really, friendly but ALSO i kind of like
Speaker 1: thought he was going to kill. Me it's hard to
Speaker 1: be the one to take the call to try and
Speaker 1: solve the mysteries that plague your. Family and WHILE i
Speaker 1: don't understand exactly What liz went, through there are. Similarities
Speaker 1: we are both daughters searching for, answers and WHILE i
Speaker 1: didn't get, Mine liz hopes that she can find.
Speaker 10: Hers back in twenty, twelve on the day After, Christmas
Speaker 10: liz does exactly what.
Speaker 1: The police have asked her to, do but it's a tall.
Speaker 5: Order SO i went back to the, house which was very,
Speaker 5: eerie and there's still a smell THAT i can't describe.
Speaker 5: IT i think it's a mixture of the fingerprint dust
Speaker 5: and the.
Speaker 1: Illuminol so luminol this is a chemical use to detect
Speaker 1: traces of blood that crime scenes that aren't visible to
Speaker 1: the naked. Eye it glows blue in the, dark which
Speaker 1: indicates traces of blood that could have been left behind
Speaker 1: even after someone tries to clean it. Up the crime
Speaker 1: scene unit used it in The melgar's bathroom.
Speaker 5: And then these like big black trash. BAGS i don't
Speaker 5: know if it's like that smell all mixed, together or
Speaker 5: if it's the chemical. SMELL i don't know what it.
Speaker 5: Is SOMETIMES i still smell it and it takes me back.
Speaker 5: There but this house just had this smell that wasn't the.
Speaker 5: Smell my house had all of the furniture that had
Speaker 5: been in my mom and dad's room was in the
Speaker 5: living room because they had to pull up the carpet
Speaker 5: and paint the floor because of all the blood and
Speaker 5: repaint the walls and. Everything there was just black fingerprint dust,
Speaker 5: everywhere and it was just so.
Speaker 1: Quiet she sees the house in, disarray the drawers left,
Speaker 1: open looking to her like they've rifled. Through did it
Speaker 1: normally look like?
Speaker 3: That?
Speaker 5: NO i used to drive my mom crazy if anyone,
Speaker 5: left you, know cabinet's open or drawers, open and he
Speaker 5: drives me. Crazy but, no we never left it like.
Speaker 1: That it's hard For liz to tell what's missing and
Speaker 1: what the police have. Seized the professional cleaners hired to
Speaker 1: clean up crime scenes have already come through and everything's
Speaker 1: been moved. About she thinks the SMALL tv which was
Speaker 1: in her parents', bedroom, jewelry and her mom's anti seizure
Speaker 1: medication are all. Gone then she goes into the, Garage
Speaker 1: jim's man, cave his happy.
Speaker 5: PLACE i used to love to sit out in the
Speaker 5: garage with him and watch him. Work Like i'd always
Speaker 5: asked him to teach me how to do, things and
Speaker 5: he was, like you're going to cut your hand. Off
Speaker 5: there's no Way i'm going to teach you right. Now
Speaker 5: but you can sit and. Watch you can help in other.
Speaker 5: Ways SO i was like familiar with his. Workspace you,
Speaker 5: know he loved his, tools he loved, building and he
Speaker 5: loved you, know making things with his, hands working on,
Speaker 5: cars doing these types of.
Speaker 1: Things it was crammed with expensive looking power tools and,
Speaker 1: machinery shelves and shelves of paint filler, sprays you, KNOW diy.
Speaker 5: Stuff all the toolboxes had been, opened rummaged, through just
Speaker 5: like have, hazardly just left disorganized and jumbled. Together and
Speaker 5: that's not how my dad was very organized with his.
Speaker 5: Tools he was just somebody who had a routine and
Speaker 5: a set way of doing things and he just didn't
Speaker 5: deviate from. It and so to see the way that
Speaker 5: the garage had been left was not my dad at.
Speaker 1: All Then liz spot something, else something totally out of,
Speaker 1: place her old green and black backpack from middle school long,
Speaker 1: forgot and a closet in the, house sitting on the
Speaker 1: concrete garage.
Speaker 5: Floor AND i thought that was, strange and SO i
Speaker 5: kind of stood over it AND i looked into, it
Speaker 5: AND i could see that there was an xbox in.
Speaker 5: There BUT i didn't want to touch any of.
Speaker 1: It liz knows from reading all of those true crime
Speaker 1: books that touching it could contaminate vital.
Speaker 5: Evidence and SO i called the police AND i said
Speaker 5: he should come and look at.
Speaker 1: This the detectives returned to the house and photograph the
Speaker 1: backpack and the other things, that according To, liz don't add,
Speaker 1: up but only the backpack and its contents are seats
Speaker 1: and taken to The Harris County Forensics lab for. Testing
Speaker 1: inside there's An, Xbox xbox, controllers An xbox, game and
Speaker 1: more than twenty pieces of, jewelry including, earrings, rings and.
Speaker 1: Necklaces valuables taken from the house highly pawnable items had
Speaker 1: they been stashed in the garage by burglars who had
Speaker 1: to flee the scene in a hurry when things got
Speaker 1: out of. Hand could these hold the clues to who
Speaker 1: Killed liz's Dad Jim. Melgar you've been listening To Hands,
Speaker 1: tied a new eight part true crime series FROM Bbc
Speaker 1: studios And iHeart. Podcasts new episodes will be released, weekly
Speaker 1: so subscribe or follow on The iHeartRadio app or wherever
Speaker 1: you get your podcasts so you don't miss. Out if
Speaker 1: you like the, show please help us by spreading the
Speaker 1: word or giving us a five star. Review I'm Maggie
Speaker 1: Robinson katz and the producer Is Maggie. Latham sound design
Speaker 1: and mix is By Tom. Brignell our script consultant Is
Speaker 1: Emma weatherall production support is From Dan, Martini Elena boutang
Speaker 1: And Mabel Finnegan, wright and our Product Action executive Is
Speaker 1: Laura Jordan. Raul the series was developed By Anya saunders
Speaker 1: And Emma shaw At, iHeart The Managing executive producer Is Christina,
Speaker 1: everett and FOR Bbc, studios the executive producer Is Joe
Speaker 1: kent