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Speaker 1: BBC SuDS. Hey, h'm Maggie. Just a quick heads up

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Speaker 1: before we start. The series does contain some descriptions of

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Speaker 1: violence and deals with adult themes.

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Speaker 2: His ar murder has a Northwest Harance County neighborhood on edge.

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Speaker 2: A couple celebrating a wedding anniversary found tied up in

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Speaker 2: Sanford closets. The husband had been stabbed to death tonight.

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Speaker 2: Investigators have plenty of questions about this that happened, as

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Speaker 2: we see on this.

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Speaker 3: So we get the news on and I see the

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Speaker 3: newscasts of Jim.

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Speaker 1: When Tammy Armstrong switches on the evening news, she cannot

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Speaker 1: believe what she's seeing.

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Speaker 3: And as that's their house, that's their house, and I

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Speaker 3: was scared to death.

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Speaker 1: Her best friend, Sandy Melgar's place is wrapped in police

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Speaker 1: tape and swarming with cops.

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Speaker 2: And that's where Local two is. Andy Sirote is his

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Speaker 2: lab with the latest on this story, Handy Bill.

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Speaker 4: Residents in this quiet community still baffled over a bizarre

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Speaker 4: mystery involving two of their neighbors like this.

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Speaker 3: Then I just start screaming hysterically and crying, and Tom's

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Speaker 3: turning it up louder and they said that he had

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Speaker 3: been murdered in that house.

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Speaker 1: Tammy and her husband Tom had been entertaining friends that evening.

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Speaker 1: After they'd seen the last of their guests out. They

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Speaker 1: were ready to collapse on the sofa, but then their

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Speaker 1: son in law called, urging them to switch on the TV.

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Speaker 3: Then I just start screaming, where's Sandy. They're not saying

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Speaker 3: a thing about Sandy. Where's Sandy? What happened to her?

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Speaker 3: What did they do to her?

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Speaker 1: Tammy rings sandy cell, no reply. She rings the house again. Nothing.

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Speaker 1: She tries over and over. Next she rings around the

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Speaker 1: hospitals in Houston, and.

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Speaker 3: I called all of them. Then Tom called the policeations

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Speaker 3: in the police station said, no, she's not here. Of

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Speaker 3: course she wants there.

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Speaker 1: What Tom and Tammy don't know is that Sandy's phone

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Speaker 1: has been taken into evidence. Well, she's questioned by the police.

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Speaker 3: And so then we could do nothing. But I said,

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Speaker 3: we'll stay dressed, We'll stay on top of the covers

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Speaker 3: and just lay here and wait, saying prayers and crying

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Speaker 3: and waiting to hear from my friend. Tom's phone rang

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Speaker 3: about I think four in the morning or something.

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Speaker 1: They're both still awake, lying fully dressed on the bed.

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Speaker 3: He picks it up first ring and he goes, yes,

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Speaker 3: it's a minute, and he hands it to me and

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Speaker 3: Sandy's voice is so faint. She was Tammy. I said yeah.

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Speaker 3: She goes, do you know, and I said yes, I know, sweetie,

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Speaker 3: I know. I said where are you? And she goes,

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Speaker 3: they brought me back here. I said they who? And

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Speaker 3: I said you're at your house? And she is yes.

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Speaker 1: The police dropped Sandy back at home at three forty

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Speaker 1: five am on Christmas Eve.

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Speaker 3: And I said we'll be right there. She says okay,

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Speaker 3: and she clicked off and I told him, I said,

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Speaker 3: I can't believe they took her back. She's at the house.

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Speaker 3: And so we jump in the car and we drive

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Speaker 3: over there and get there.

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Speaker 1: When Tammy and her husband arrive at the Melgar's house,

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Speaker 1: they have to push their way through the massive reporters

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Speaker 1: and cameras gathered outside.

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Speaker 4: Friends and relatives say fifty two year old Haimimelgar had

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Speaker 4: no enemies, and tonight they are rallying around his broken

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Speaker 4: hearted widow.

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Speaker 3: We're just trying to christ you know. Reporters in front,

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Speaker 3: and we go under the yellow tape and go in

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Speaker 3: and Sandy's sitting on her sofa and she's holding her dog, Lola,

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Speaker 3: the Pomeranian, and she's so so so pale, and her

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Speaker 3: skin is so blanched and she can barely talk. And

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Speaker 3: I said, Sandy, have you had your medicine? I said,

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Speaker 3: you're going to have a seizure. I said, and you're dry,

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Speaker 3: you're dehydrated, running get a bottle of water on the fridge,

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Speaker 3: A hander water. So where's your medicine, honey, she says,

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Speaker 3: And she can tell me. So I started to go

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Speaker 3: to her bedroom. Don't go in there, and I said,

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Speaker 3: I won't look.

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Speaker 1: Jim's body was found in a closet connected to that bedroom.

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Speaker 3: He was gone, but the blood I didn't see it.

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Speaker 3: I wouldn't look, but Tom said it was. It was horrendous.

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Speaker 3: All they had done was removed Jim. Lola had blood

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Speaker 3: on her and fingerprinting stuff and all that was all

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Speaker 3: over Lola. She's pure white. And her puppies were crying

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Speaker 3: and barking in the yard and Sandy was just sitting

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Speaker 3: on the couch with hardly anything on, freezing, just sitting there, shaking.

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Speaker 1: Tammy searches for draw for Fenno barbadal. That's Sandy's prescription

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Speaker 1: anti seizure medication. She can't find any.

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Speaker 3: And I said, well, whoever did this obviously knew that

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Speaker 3: phenom barbital is the drug take And I said, because

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Speaker 3: that's gone. She goes, oh, I had my full prescription.

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Speaker 1: Tammy locates some tablets tucked away and gives one to Sandy.

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Speaker 3: And I just grabbed a couple of things for her

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Speaker 3: put on and wrapped her in a blanket and we

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Speaker 3: got the dogs and got her out of there.

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Speaker 1: Tammy and Tom decide to take Sandy back to their house,

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Speaker 1: hoping it will be a refuge from the crime scene

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Speaker 1: and from the pack of reporters we're.

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Speaker 4: Just trying to get as a statement. Sandra Melgar saw

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Speaker 4: comfort today and the arms of a friend in the

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Speaker 4: wake of her husband's bizarre murder.

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Speaker 3: She was and the lights. They started taking pictures and

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Speaker 3: she just started shaking and shaking it. And I wrapped

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Speaker 3: her tightly and threw the blanket even more of her head,

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Speaker 3: and we get her into the car and you know,

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Speaker 3: put it in the back, slam the door, and they're

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Speaker 3: asking for a statement. Thirty two years with the anniversary,

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Speaker 3: there's Aunt that's Tammy.

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Speaker 1: She's sitting in the front seat of the car, shielding

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Speaker 1: her eyes from the glare of the cameras, her face

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Speaker 1: twisted in anguish, all for viewers at home to see

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Speaker 1: as journalists cramble around trying to question her and Sandy murder.

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Speaker 4: She was unable to speak from the backseat of this

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Speaker 4: car where we saw her wrapped in a blanket laying

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Speaker 4: down Stewart.

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Speaker 3: And we left and they said, where are you taking it?

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Speaker 3: Where are you taking her?

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Speaker 1: Back at her house, Tammy put Sandy in a hot

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Speaker 1: shower to warm up. She's freezing cold, and.

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Speaker 3: She kept saying, I still smell it, I still smell it.

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Speaker 3: And I said, what are you smelling the here? She

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Speaker 3: has the blood, so much blood, Tammy, so much blood.

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Speaker 3: But when I was washing her hair for her, there

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Speaker 3: was a bump, a big noot on her head as

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Speaker 3: a Sandy, we need to go to er, and I said,

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Speaker 3: I don't know what they did to you, and she

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Speaker 3: said I can't, I can't, and she was crying, and

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Speaker 3: don't take me to another cold, hard place.

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Speaker 1: So they try to get some rest instead, and.

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Speaker 3: I got her under the electric blanket and she slept

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Speaker 3: with me and Tom slipped in the guest room and

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Speaker 3: she stayed awake all night. She was crying, saying, how

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Speaker 3: could they do this to him? How could they do this?

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Speaker 3: And then she said, what am I going to do

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Speaker 3: without him? He's everything? And I said, I know. Then

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Speaker 3: at one point, all of a sudden, she goes tell

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Speaker 3: me they think I did this. And I thought she

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Speaker 3: was just babbling, you know, shock. I said, that's ridiculous,

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Speaker 3: you were tied up. I said, no one would ever

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Speaker 3: think that you did this. That's the most ridiculous thing

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Speaker 3: I've ever heard. And I said, who thinks you did this?

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Speaker 3: And she goes the police.

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Speaker 1: I'm Maggie Robinson Katz and from BBC's Studios and iHeart podcasts.

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Speaker 1: This is Hands Tied, episode three, Homecoming.

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Speaker 5: I could have left a guy here this Christmas Day.

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Speaker 5: It was the twenty fifth when we landed.

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Speaker 1: By the time Liz and her husband land in Texas,

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Speaker 1: her mom, Sandy, is already at Tammy's house and has

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Speaker 1: already been quizzed by the police about her dad Jim's murder.

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Speaker 5: I think I was completely in shock the whole time.

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Speaker 5: I mean I broke down on the plane a few times,

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Speaker 5: and when I was picked up from the airport. I

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Speaker 5: think that's when it hit me, but not entirely, because

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Speaker 5: I feel like I was in shock for years.

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Speaker 1: A cousin picks them up at George Bush International Airport,

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Speaker 1: and a wave of emotion and relief hits Liz because

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Speaker 1: sitting in the backseat of the car is Sandy. After

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Speaker 1: hours of frantic worrying about her mom, at least here

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Speaker 1: she is. She's not in a good way, though.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, my mom just like falls apart and she's got

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Speaker 5: bruises all down her arms, and asking her what happened,

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Speaker 5: and I mean she was just bawling, she was just crying.

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Speaker 1: They get back to Tammy's house, which has become the

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Speaker 1: gathering place for all of Sandy's relatives and friends.

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Speaker 5: So I didn't flat out say what happened because I

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Speaker 5: didn't want to make her talk about this right if

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Speaker 5: she wasn't ready.

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Speaker 1: Slowly, Sandy tells Liz what she remembers about the events

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Speaker 1: leading up to Jim's death.

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Speaker 5: At that moment, I remember thinking, you're sitting in this

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Speaker 5: bathtub right with the person that you think you're spending

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Speaker 5: the rest of your life with. You're talking about what

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Speaker 5: you're about to do now that he's retired, your plans,

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Speaker 5: all this stuff, and then he gets up to go

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Speaker 5: let the dogs in, and the next thing you wake

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Speaker 5: up and your whole life has been turned upside down.

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Speaker 5: And I just remember that thought going through my head

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Speaker 5: over and over again.

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Speaker 1: Sandy tails Liz about the police interview.

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Speaker 5: Didn't they take you to the hospital. No, you know,

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Speaker 5: she thought she'd had a seizure, she had a bump

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Speaker 5: on her head. She said that they had interrogated her,

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Speaker 5: that they wanted her to do a light detector test.

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Speaker 5: She said, no, I'm too stressed and frazzled right now.

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Speaker 5: I will not pass a light detector test. It all

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Speaker 5: felt very wrong.

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Speaker 1: Liza's head is spinning. It's a lot to process. Her

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Speaker 1: dad is dead, and it seems like her mom is

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Speaker 1: a suspect.

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Speaker 3: It's a lot.

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Speaker 5: It's more than most people can handle, too much for

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Speaker 5: one person.

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Speaker 1: She's drained, exhausted, jet lagged, barely recovered from the miscarriage

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Speaker 1: she's just had. But now that seems like an eternity ago,

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Speaker 1: and these most desperate of circumstances, she turns to the

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Speaker 1: person who she could always rely on to keep a

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Speaker 1: cool head in a crisis her dad.

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Speaker 5: My dad was always telling me how important it is

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Speaker 5: not to get too emotional about things, and to step

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Speaker 5: back and separate yourself and try and look at things

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Speaker 5: from this perspective that isn't emotional or biased.

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Speaker 3: Like Jim.

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Speaker 1: Liz isn't a panicer, so she channels his calm, logical brain.

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Speaker 1: And there's her other superpower. Those true crime books she

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Speaker 1: obsessed over as a teenager, which led her to study

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Speaker 1: neuroscience in England, knowledge which she has stored up and

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Speaker 1: can now put to use.

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Speaker 5: It was definitely already cynical about the police. I already

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Speaker 5: was very distressing of them. And you're taught to believe

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Speaker 5: that they're going to help you, right there there to

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Speaker 5: help you and they want to make sure you get

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Speaker 5: justice or whatever bullshit that they tell you.

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Speaker 3: But I have.

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Speaker 5: Seen how they've treated other people. And then you know,

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Speaker 5: reading these like true crime accounts where sometimes the police

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Speaker 5: have released victims back into their killers custody, or you know,

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Speaker 5: usually they don't listen when it's somebody who is not white,

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Speaker 5: or you know, who's not in authority. I don't know,

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Speaker 5: there's just different circumstances, right, So I was very familiar

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Speaker 5: with these types of interactions, and we started from there.

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Speaker 1: Liz swings into action. First, she wants to find out

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Speaker 1: how her dad died, so she tracks down a number

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Speaker 1: for the medical examiner.

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00:12:55,520 --> 00:12:58,480
Speaker 5: I remember calling the NY's office and trying to get

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00:12:58,600 --> 00:13:04,240
Speaker 5: some information. So I called the detective and they asked

224
00:13:04,600 --> 00:13:07,600
Speaker 5: if they could come see me at Tom and Tammy's house.

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00:13:07,720 --> 00:13:17,079
Speaker 5: I said, okay.

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Speaker 1: It's the day after Christmas, twenty twelve, and two detectives

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00:13:21,520 --> 00:13:24,000
Speaker 1: are outside Tom and Tammy's house in Houston.

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00:13:25,520 --> 00:13:28,560
Speaker 3: They knock at our door. Sandy's in the back, and

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Speaker 3: she immediately starts trembling and shaking.

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Speaker 1: It's the same two detectives who interviewed Sandy, Deputy Carousel

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Speaker 1: and Sergeant to say.

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Speaker 3: So, I stayed back there with her, and I'm like,

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00:13:42,480 --> 00:13:44,920
Speaker 3: you don't have to go out. They'll be seeing to

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00:13:44,960 --> 00:13:47,319
Speaker 3: the front room. You don't have to see them.

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Speaker 1: But it's okay because they're not here to see Sandy,

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00:13:51,320 --> 00:13:54,960
Speaker 1: they're here to talk to Liz. Liz records the interview

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Speaker 1: using a tablet she'd given her husband Anthony for Christmas.

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Speaker 1: This was twenty twelve. Applets were high tech and more

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00:14:03,200 --> 00:14:05,440
Speaker 1: than a decade later, Liz and I are in my

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00:14:05,520 --> 00:14:10,559
Speaker 1: hotel room in Wimbledon, London, listening back to that recording Semumer.

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00:14:10,320 --> 00:14:13,559
Speaker 6: Twenty six, twenty twelve, case number one two one seventy

242
00:14:13,640 --> 00:14:19,000
Speaker 6: six two six' Nine Sean kerzelhairrishetty homicide Sixty henry forty

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00:14:19,000 --> 00:14:22,400
Speaker 6: two also with me as my, Partner sergeant do, say

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00:14:23,200 --> 00:14:25,800
Speaker 6: And i'm gonna let the other two witnesses here identify.

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00:14:25,800 --> 00:14:29,920
Speaker 6: Themselves manage and identify, Yourself Elizabeth melgarth, okay and this

246
00:14:30,080 --> 00:14:32,680
Speaker 6: is your? Husband, yeah your Name Anthony.

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00:14:32,720 --> 00:14:35,440
Speaker 1: Rose did they know that you were? Recording?

248
00:14:35,920 --> 00:14:36,960
Speaker 5: YEAH i told THEM i was going to.

249
00:14:37,000 --> 00:14:39,680
Speaker 1: Record IF i was in your shoes in that, POSITION

250
00:14:39,800 --> 00:14:41,480
Speaker 1: i don't THINK i would have the foresight to do.

251
00:14:41,520 --> 00:14:43,720
Speaker 5: THAT i really don't know what made me do. IT

252
00:14:43,800 --> 00:14:48,360
Speaker 5: i guess just like mistrust and making sure THAT i

253
00:14:48,560 --> 00:14:50,800
Speaker 5: remembered what we had said and what we had talked,

254
00:14:50,840 --> 00:14:53,680
Speaker 5: about BECAUSE i felt LIKE i was in such shock

255
00:14:53,800 --> 00:14:56,200
Speaker 5: that you know, what IF i forgot EVERYTHING i had

256
00:14:56,240 --> 00:14:57,360
Speaker 5: said AND i forgot something.

257
00:14:57,360 --> 00:15:02,320
Speaker 6: Important have you talked about been to your? Mother what

258
00:15:02,640 --> 00:15:03,520
Speaker 6: did your mother have to?

259
00:15:03,520 --> 00:15:08,160
Speaker 5: Say she's just in complete. Shock she has a hard

260
00:15:08,160 --> 00:15:09,520
Speaker 5: time remembering things as.

261
00:15:09,360 --> 00:15:10,200
Speaker 3: It is because of the.

262
00:15:10,240 --> 00:15:12,960
Speaker 5: Seizures she's got a well documented history of lucas and

263
00:15:12,960 --> 00:15:18,160
Speaker 5: epilepsy for the past twenty something. Years and she basically

264
00:15:18,240 --> 00:15:20,920
Speaker 5: just told me that the, Police, well she woke up

265
00:15:20,960 --> 00:15:22,880
Speaker 5: and she was trying to sit up and.

266
00:15:22,800 --> 00:15:24,880
Speaker 7: Get out of the, closet but she has had.

267
00:15:24,800 --> 00:15:28,600
Speaker 5: Hip replacements and she has a lot of joint, problems

268
00:15:28,600 --> 00:15:30,480
Speaker 5: so she really couldn't, move and she didn't know how

269
00:15:30,520 --> 00:15:33,240
Speaker 5: long she had been, There SO i mean.

270
00:15:33,120 --> 00:15:34,840
Speaker 7: She said that the police took her.

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00:15:34,880 --> 00:15:37,960
Speaker 5: In, well they told my family that they were taking

272
00:15:37,960 --> 00:15:40,800
Speaker 5: to the, hospital AND i spent hours calling hospitals trying

273
00:15:40,800 --> 00:15:42,480
Speaker 5: to find, her and it turned out that they didn't

274
00:15:42,480 --> 00:15:45,360
Speaker 5: take her. There it wouldn't give her, medication and she

275
00:15:45,400 --> 00:15:46,080
Speaker 5: was there for twelve.

276
00:15:46,120 --> 00:15:49,640
Speaker 7: Hours and stress brings on, seizures and so does lack of,

277
00:15:49,680 --> 00:15:53,000
Speaker 7: sleep SO i was a bit worried about her. Health

278
00:15:53,640 --> 00:15:55,640
Speaker 7: she's quite in a quite gradual state right.

279
00:15:55,640 --> 00:16:04,040
Speaker 1: Now you sound so clear and so concise and so.

280
00:16:04,680 --> 00:16:06,920
Speaker 1: PRESENT i think it's probably.

281
00:16:06,640 --> 00:16:09,000
Speaker 5: Just like angry THAT i had to deal with these

282
00:16:09,040 --> 00:16:11,960
Speaker 5: idiots and angry at the way they had treated.

283
00:16:12,000 --> 00:16:16,800
Speaker 1: Her time has not Softened liz's feelings towards the. Police

284
00:16:18,280 --> 00:16:18,480
Speaker 1: you do.

285
00:16:18,560 --> 00:16:22,800
Speaker 6: Know that we had a messenal that check her out, medication,

286
00:16:23,080 --> 00:16:25,840
Speaker 6: Right but the doctor and them that saw her there

287
00:16:25,840 --> 00:16:29,480
Speaker 6: at the, scene they had cleared everything before we even

288
00:16:29,720 --> 00:16:30,120
Speaker 6: spoke to.

289
00:16:30,160 --> 00:16:33,600
Speaker 1: Her how can you, SO i see you shaking your. Head,

290
00:16:33,960 --> 00:16:35,600
Speaker 1: yeah because he's saying there was a doctor on.

291
00:16:35,720 --> 00:16:38,040
Speaker 5: Scene there was no doctor on. Sine there were some

292
00:16:38,240 --> 00:16:38,680
Speaker 5: mts On.

293
00:16:38,760 --> 00:16:42,280
Speaker 1: Zene Emergency medical technicians.

294
00:16:42,280 --> 00:16:46,360
Speaker 5: EMTs aren't, trained you, know to deal with this sort of.

295
00:16:46,440 --> 00:16:49,960
Speaker 5: Situation they're not going to have her medication for. Her

296
00:16:50,880 --> 00:16:52,120
Speaker 5: they should have taken her to the.

297
00:16:52,160 --> 00:16:55,960
Speaker 1: Hospital liz thinks That sandy was in no fit state

298
00:16:56,040 --> 00:16:58,600
Speaker 1: to decide for herself if she needed to go to the,

299
00:16:58,640 --> 00:17:01,120
Speaker 1: hospital she should have been taken.

300
00:17:01,240 --> 00:17:04,760
Speaker 5: Anyway she doesn't know what's going, on she's not thinking.

301
00:17:04,760 --> 00:17:08,720
Speaker 5: Clearly she should have never been in that room answering

302
00:17:08,840 --> 00:17:11,280
Speaker 5: questions in that state and without a.

303
00:17:11,320 --> 00:17:12,640
Speaker 1: Lawyer, yeah it.

304
00:17:12,600 --> 00:17:14,919
Speaker 5: Was just it was very frustrating because they were just

305
00:17:15,040 --> 00:17:17,239
Speaker 5: lying to my face LIKE i was this idiot who

306
00:17:17,320 --> 00:17:19,520
Speaker 5: had no, idea and that LIKE i was just going

307
00:17:19,560 --> 00:17:22,359
Speaker 5: to buy, it and it was so. Insulting it was

308
00:17:22,440 --> 00:17:25,119
Speaker 5: so insulting and just went like adding insult to.

309
00:17:25,160 --> 00:17:28,040
Speaker 3: Injury and you understand.

310
00:17:27,560 --> 00:17:29,960
Speaker 6: That we're not pointing fingers at anybody, here but we're

311
00:17:29,960 --> 00:17:31,560
Speaker 6: trying to we're trying to get as much informational we

312
00:17:31,680 --> 00:17:36,080
Speaker 6: can't because it's either. Way we have either we're looking

313
00:17:36,080 --> 00:17:39,160
Speaker 6: at a possible suspect entered her, home and we're trying

314
00:17:39,200 --> 00:17:41,280
Speaker 6: to look at every angle.

315
00:17:41,320 --> 00:17:44,600
Speaker 7: HERE i just don't appreciate the way my mother was

316
00:17:44,640 --> 00:17:45,320
Speaker 7: treated like.

317
00:17:45,480 --> 00:17:48,680
Speaker 5: That she, WAS i, mean she said that the police

318
00:17:48,720 --> 00:17:50,720
Speaker 5: were basically we're just, saying you, know you did?

319
00:17:50,720 --> 00:17:51,639
Speaker 3: It was he?

320
00:17:51,680 --> 00:17:54,159
Speaker 7: Abusive was he having an? Affair was this? Happening was that?

321
00:17:54,160 --> 00:17:55,960
Speaker 6: Happening, no here's the.

322
00:17:56,040 --> 00:18:00,639
Speaker 1: DEAL i look At liz and pause the. RECORDING i, mean.

323
00:18:00,880 --> 00:18:04,320
Speaker 5: He's denying, everything and then you get to the interrogation

324
00:18:04,359 --> 00:18:05,840
Speaker 5: footage and Everything i've said is.

325
00:18:05,880 --> 00:18:10,199
Speaker 6: True the questions are, asked, okay but you have to,

326
00:18:10,240 --> 00:18:13,680
Speaker 6: remember and it's how somebody perceives the. Question we have

327
00:18:13,760 --> 00:18:17,440
Speaker 6: to know if somebody was out to hurt your. Father,

328
00:18:18,359 --> 00:18:21,120
Speaker 6: okay the way you take that question is the way

329
00:18:21,680 --> 00:18:24,560
Speaker 6: however you're going to take. It but that's our. Job

330
00:18:24,600 --> 00:18:26,560
Speaker 6: we have to figure out kill.

331
00:18:26,680 --> 00:18:29,280
Speaker 5: HIM i think she probably had a seizure and that

332
00:18:29,320 --> 00:18:32,160
Speaker 5: probably freaked out whoever was, there and maybe they thought

333
00:18:32,160 --> 00:18:33,359
Speaker 5: they killed her by hitting her on the.

334
00:18:33,400 --> 00:18:35,119
Speaker 6: HEAD i don't, know, WELL i mean that could. Be

335
00:18:35,320 --> 00:18:37,760
Speaker 6: that could be the, case and that's WHY i need to.

336
00:18:37,760 --> 00:18:40,840
Speaker 6: Know like with her condition And i'm not saying that

337
00:18:41,840 --> 00:18:44,440
Speaker 6: she could black out and all that. Stuff it could,

338
00:18:44,520 --> 00:18:46,679
Speaker 6: happen BUT i need to know if she's ever going

339
00:18:46,760 --> 00:18:49,399
Speaker 6: to remember, it because if she could ever remember a,

340
00:18:49,440 --> 00:18:52,280
Speaker 6: suspect that's the best thing for me and him because

341
00:18:52,280 --> 00:18:54,480
Speaker 6: then we have a description and everything. Else right, now

342
00:18:54,520 --> 00:18:55,320
Speaker 6: at this, point we have.

343
00:18:55,560 --> 00:18:57,960
Speaker 3: Nothing i've been asking, Trying.

344
00:18:57,720 --> 00:18:59,960
Speaker 6: We're trying to solve the, case And i'm trying to

345
00:19:00,040 --> 00:19:03,399
Speaker 6: look for answers just that anything that can help us

346
00:19:03,440 --> 00:19:06,439
Speaker 6: out because that now we don't, know we know, nothing

347
00:19:07,000 --> 00:19:08,280
Speaker 6: and everybody is a.

348
00:19:08,440 --> 00:19:11,280
Speaker 3: Suspect at a, point the police Till.

349
00:19:11,119 --> 00:19:15,040
Speaker 1: Liz they're keeping an open mind and that they need her.

350
00:19:15,080 --> 00:19:18,680
Speaker 1: Help they ask if she'll be going back to her parents',

351
00:19:18,680 --> 00:19:19,800
Speaker 1: house do me.

352
00:19:19,760 --> 00:19:22,959
Speaker 6: A favor when you're, there get a tablet out anything

353
00:19:23,000 --> 00:19:25,359
Speaker 6: you think is, missing because we need to start searching

354
00:19:25,359 --> 00:19:27,760
Speaker 6: for the eydos that are. Missing somebody came in and stole.

355
00:19:27,800 --> 00:19:30,600
Speaker 6: It if somebody come in and going to steal, stuff

356
00:19:31,119 --> 00:19:33,879
Speaker 6: if you have OLD tv the manuals to them that

357
00:19:33,920 --> 00:19:36,480
Speaker 6: has a serial, number or anything like that to it

358
00:19:37,240 --> 00:19:40,040
Speaker 6: bring it all to, us because we can start searching

359
00:19:40,119 --> 00:19:43,600
Speaker 6: for those items if they've been, pawned they've been sold.

360
00:19:43,760 --> 00:19:45,800
Speaker 7: So meticulous he has all. That i'm sure he has

361
00:19:45,920 --> 00:19:47,480
Speaker 7: all those things in his house.

362
00:19:47,600 --> 00:19:52,560
Speaker 6: Somewhere see and how your mother and father a? Relationship

363
00:19:52,560 --> 00:19:54,840
Speaker 6: how has it been in this past?

364
00:19:55,000 --> 00:20:01,080
Speaker 5: Great, okay they were just celebrating their thirty second money. Anniversary,

365
00:20:02,400 --> 00:20:03,800
Speaker 5: alrighty it's twelve.

366
00:20:03,840 --> 00:20:06,439
Speaker 6: Thirty he's gonna be the end of.

367
00:20:10,880 --> 00:20:16,280
Speaker 1: The interview lasts thirteen. Minutes any sort of final thoughts

368
00:20:16,320 --> 00:20:17,879
Speaker 1: after replaying that whole.

369
00:20:17,920 --> 00:20:23,840
Speaker 5: THING i was probably like too nice and like accommodating

370
00:20:23,880 --> 00:20:27,760
Speaker 5: and just letting them get away with the bullshit that

371
00:20:27,760 --> 00:20:31,399
Speaker 5: they were trying to feed. Me hindsight's always twenty. Twenty

372
00:20:31,920 --> 00:20:33,000
Speaker 5: BUT i didn't know WHAT i know.

373
00:20:33,080 --> 00:20:47,359
Speaker 1: Now everyone kind of thinks they know how they'll react

374
00:20:47,359 --> 00:20:51,080
Speaker 1: in a high pressure. Situation we think we'll do the honorable,

375
00:20:51,119 --> 00:20:53,840
Speaker 1: thing or we'll keep our composure in some way or

376
00:20:53,840 --> 00:20:57,480
Speaker 1: something like. That but when we're faced with the reality

377
00:20:57,520 --> 00:21:01,119
Speaker 1: of it, ALL i think we'd surprise, ourselves and not

378
00:21:01,240 --> 00:21:05,399
Speaker 1: always in the best. Way i've mentioned before THAT i

379
00:21:05,400 --> 00:21:09,760
Speaker 1: can kind of understand What lissa's experiencing BECAUSE i also

380
00:21:09,840 --> 00:21:15,080
Speaker 1: took on an investigation around my own dad's. Mystery growing.

381
00:21:15,160 --> 00:21:18,639
Speaker 1: Up my dad was a. Businessman in, FACT i learned

382
00:21:18,680 --> 00:21:22,520
Speaker 1: the word entrepreneur very early. On he always wanted to

383
00:21:22,560 --> 00:21:26,560
Speaker 1: be a, musician but pivoted that desire towards, radio owning

384
00:21:26,640 --> 00:21:31,199
Speaker 1: several stations and even pioneering the first radio network to

385
00:21:31,240 --> 00:21:36,520
Speaker 1: provide twenty four hour music programming via. Satellite so a

386
00:21:36,520 --> 00:21:40,360
Speaker 1: pretty amazing, career. Right my dad was filled with stories

387
00:21:40,400 --> 00:21:42,280
Speaker 1: from the time he turned down hanging out With paul,

388
00:21:42,359 --> 00:21:46,560
Speaker 1: McCartney which was a major, regret to producing a radio

389
00:21:46,640 --> 00:21:49,919
Speaker 1: program With John. Candy and to answer the question that

390
00:21:49,960 --> 00:21:54,000
Speaker 1: may have popped into your, head, YES i did grow up.

391
00:21:54,080 --> 00:22:00,679
Speaker 1: Rich but in twenty, eleven out of seemingly, nowhere my

392
00:22:00,800 --> 00:22:03,919
Speaker 1: dad was diagnosed with colon cancer and died just a

393
00:22:03,960 --> 00:22:08,000
Speaker 1: few weeks, later revealing a secret he'd been keeping for.

394
00:22:08,160 --> 00:22:12,480
Speaker 1: Years he was, broke the two thousand and eight real

395
00:22:12,560 --> 00:22:16,560
Speaker 1: estate crash wiping him, out but there could possibly be

396
00:22:16,720 --> 00:22:21,280
Speaker 1: something to pull him out of this financial. Hole for

397
00:22:21,359 --> 00:22:23,320
Speaker 1: over a, decade my dad would talk to this guy

398
00:22:23,359 --> 00:22:27,280
Speaker 1: in The philippines about gold hidden in the. Jungle this

399
00:22:27,359 --> 00:22:30,879
Speaker 1: guy told my dad he represented the Former filipino Dictator

400
00:22:31,000 --> 00:22:35,080
Speaker 1: Ferdinand marcos and was the executor of his. Will he

401
00:22:35,119 --> 00:22:38,800
Speaker 1: had access to treasure hidden in the jungle worth trillions of,

402
00:22:38,880 --> 00:22:43,520
Speaker 1: dollars and with just a modest investment to help get

403
00:22:43,560 --> 00:22:47,480
Speaker 1: said gold out of said, jungle my dad would be

404
00:22:47,520 --> 00:22:52,200
Speaker 1: wealthy beyond his wildest. Dreams my dad and the, sky

405
00:22:52,280 --> 00:22:56,080
Speaker 1: almost eight thousand miles, away would have nearly nightly phone.

406
00:22:56,080 --> 00:22:59,640
Speaker 1: Calls my dad would take notes using pen and, paper

407
00:23:00,160 --> 00:23:05,200
Speaker 1: keeping track of important, details numbers and, people but later

408
00:23:05,280 --> 00:23:09,199
Speaker 1: he transitioned to taping them. TAPES i got access to

409
00:23:09,280 --> 00:23:15,439
Speaker 1: a couple of years after his. Death thank you for

410
00:23:15,480 --> 00:23:17,280
Speaker 1: calling the event street in, health.

411
00:23:17,520 --> 00:23:20,000
Speaker 8: Yes Mister, stuckey or in two or three.

412
00:23:20,040 --> 00:23:24,720
Speaker 1: Place there's hundreds of, them all following the same. Pattern

413
00:23:25,240 --> 00:23:27,639
Speaker 1: my dad, dials says the day and time on the,

414
00:23:27,640 --> 00:23:32,440
Speaker 1: recording and the phone. Rings this guy in The philippines picks,

415
00:23:32,520 --> 00:23:33,480
Speaker 1: up and.

416
00:23:35,640 --> 00:23:35,879
Speaker 6: So what?

417
00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:40,640
Speaker 1: Happened, well and give some updates that really don't make any.

418
00:23:40,680 --> 00:23:42,919
Speaker 1: Sense generals decided.

419
00:23:42,600 --> 00:23:44,520
Speaker 8: They didn't want to take it up Until monday. Morning

420
00:23:45,320 --> 00:23:47,840
Speaker 8: general got afraid to do, it and just too many

421
00:23:47,840 --> 00:23:48,320
Speaker 8: people get.

422
00:23:48,400 --> 00:23:52,200
Speaker 1: Killed for a. While from that over, here as the years,

423
00:23:52,280 --> 00:23:55,560
Speaker 1: PROGRESS i hear the timbre of my dad's voice start

424
00:23:55,600 --> 00:23:59,440
Speaker 1: to shift. Morning what started as maybe a fun hobby

425
00:23:59,480 --> 00:24:03,800
Speaker 1: for rich guy became his last saving grace after losing

426
00:24:03,960 --> 00:24:06,760
Speaker 1: all of his money in the market crash of two

427
00:24:06,760 --> 00:24:11,800
Speaker 1: thousand and. Eight if these deals can come, through then

428
00:24:11,800 --> 00:24:12,960
Speaker 1: my dad would be back on.

429
00:24:13,080 --> 00:24:17,920
Speaker 8: Top don't don't get angry with. Me it's for it's four.

430
00:24:17,960 --> 00:24:22,440
Speaker 8: O'clock it's with. You i'm up with the. World, well

431
00:24:22,480 --> 00:24:25,600
Speaker 8: but what it's done to me has been. Devastating you,

432
00:24:25,640 --> 00:24:30,080
Speaker 8: KNOW i didn't ask for. THIS i didn't ask for you.

433
00:24:30,119 --> 00:24:33,320
Speaker 9: KNOW i was told that this is all that pipe

434
00:24:33,359 --> 00:24:37,199
Speaker 9: cinch and what it's doing is just slowly killing. Me

435
00:24:37,600 --> 00:24:42,119
Speaker 9: and and you, KNOW i feel bad for, you but this.

436
00:24:42,040 --> 00:24:42,400
Speaker 6: Is just.

437
00:24:44,760 --> 00:24:46,160
Speaker 8: It's it's been all these.

438
00:24:46,240 --> 00:24:47,680
Speaker 9: YEARS i just this is gonna.

439
00:24:47,720 --> 00:24:48,440
Speaker 8: Happen it's gonna.

440
00:24:48,440 --> 00:24:50,640
Speaker 3: Happen though.

441
00:24:51,320 --> 00:24:52,600
Speaker 5: Happen it's going.

442
00:24:52,920 --> 00:24:54,840
Speaker 8: WELL i hope so bad what he's.

443
00:24:54,680 --> 00:24:55,400
Speaker 10: Doing over here.

444
00:24:55,480 --> 00:24:59,080
Speaker 1: Now he never got the money and died thinking his

445
00:24:59,160 --> 00:25:03,440
Speaker 1: family would never forgive him for losing. Everything this didn't

446
00:25:03,480 --> 00:25:06,320
Speaker 1: sit well with, me SO i decided to go on

447
00:25:06,359 --> 00:25:09,239
Speaker 1: my own, quest fly to The philippines and meet this

448
00:25:09,320 --> 00:25:12,240
Speaker 1: man on the other end of the. Line SOMETHING i

449
00:25:12,320 --> 00:25:15,240
Speaker 1: found myself Telling liz about years later in a hotel

450
00:25:15,320 --> 00:25:20,520
Speaker 1: room In wimbledon In. LONDON i, mean LIKE i, remember you,

451
00:25:20,600 --> 00:25:23,199
Speaker 1: know like the PODCAST i did about my, DAD i

452
00:25:23,280 --> 00:25:26,600
Speaker 1: like confronted my dad's con, artist and like this fancy

453
00:25:26,640 --> 00:25:30,520
Speaker 1: hotel In, manila AND i had like a bodyguard because

454
00:25:30,520 --> 00:25:32,560
Speaker 1: they told me that he was probably gonna kill me

455
00:25:32,640 --> 00:25:36,320
Speaker 1: or like try to kill. Me and there was a

456
00:25:36,359 --> 00:25:40,840
Speaker 1: part WHERE i was kind of able to like disassociate

457
00:25:41,080 --> 00:25:44,320
Speaker 1: and just like kind of be. There but WHEN i

458
00:25:44,359 --> 00:25:46,240
Speaker 1: listened to, it or like WHEN i listened to my

459
00:25:46,280 --> 00:25:49,480
Speaker 1: interview with, HIM i thought the same thing about, myself

460
00:25:49,480 --> 00:25:52,640
Speaker 1: WHERE i THOUGHT i was way too, nice way too,

461
00:25:52,680 --> 00:25:57,399
Speaker 1: accommodating like really, friendly but ALSO i kind of like

462
00:25:57,440 --> 00:26:02,000
Speaker 1: thought he was going to kill. Me it's hard to

463
00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:04,520
Speaker 1: be the one to take the call to try and

464
00:26:04,560 --> 00:26:08,159
Speaker 1: solve the mysteries that plague your. Family and WHILE i

465
00:26:08,200 --> 00:26:12,600
Speaker 1: don't understand exactly What liz went, through there are. Similarities

466
00:26:13,760 --> 00:26:17,919
Speaker 1: we are both daughters searching for, answers and WHILE i

467
00:26:17,960 --> 00:26:21,160
Speaker 1: didn't get, Mine liz hopes that she can find.

468
00:26:21,200 --> 00:26:35,520
Speaker 10: Hers back in twenty, twelve on the day After, Christmas

469
00:26:36,280 --> 00:26:37,879
Speaker 10: liz does exactly what.

470
00:26:37,800 --> 00:26:41,160
Speaker 1: The police have asked her to, do but it's a tall.

471
00:26:41,320 --> 00:26:44,960
Speaker 5: Order SO i went back to the, house which was very,

472
00:26:45,000 --> 00:26:49,560
Speaker 5: eerie and there's still a smell THAT i can't describe.

473
00:26:49,600 --> 00:26:53,440
Speaker 5: IT i think it's a mixture of the fingerprint dust

474
00:26:53,520 --> 00:26:53,720
Speaker 5: and the.

475
00:26:54,160 --> 00:26:59,159
Speaker 1: Illuminol so luminol this is a chemical use to detect

476
00:26:59,240 --> 00:27:02,159
Speaker 1: traces of blood that crime scenes that aren't visible to

477
00:27:02,200 --> 00:27:05,280
Speaker 1: the naked. Eye it glows blue in the, dark which

478
00:27:05,320 --> 00:27:08,640
Speaker 1: indicates traces of blood that could have been left behind

479
00:27:09,040 --> 00:27:12,359
Speaker 1: even after someone tries to clean it. Up the crime

480
00:27:12,359 --> 00:27:15,359
Speaker 1: scene unit used it in The melgar's bathroom.

481
00:27:15,920 --> 00:27:19,480
Speaker 5: And then these like big black trash. BAGS i don't

482
00:27:19,480 --> 00:27:21,840
Speaker 5: know if it's like that smell all mixed, together or

483
00:27:21,840 --> 00:27:23,760
Speaker 5: if it's the chemical. SMELL i don't know what it.

484
00:27:23,800 --> 00:27:26,320
Speaker 5: Is SOMETIMES i still smell it and it takes me back.

485
00:27:26,320 --> 00:27:28,760
Speaker 5: There but this house just had this smell that wasn't the.

486
00:27:28,800 --> 00:27:32,360
Speaker 5: Smell my house had all of the furniture that had

487
00:27:32,359 --> 00:27:35,119
Speaker 5: been in my mom and dad's room was in the

488
00:27:35,200 --> 00:27:38,440
Speaker 5: living room because they had to pull up the carpet

489
00:27:38,560 --> 00:27:41,879
Speaker 5: and paint the floor because of all the blood and

490
00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:47,639
Speaker 5: repaint the walls and. Everything there was just black fingerprint dust,

491
00:27:47,720 --> 00:27:52,200
Speaker 5: everywhere and it was just so.

492
00:27:52,400 --> 00:27:57,960
Speaker 1: Quiet she sees the house in, disarray the drawers left,

493
00:27:58,000 --> 00:28:02,080
Speaker 1: open looking to her like they've rifled. Through did it

494
00:28:02,200 --> 00:28:03,000
Speaker 1: normally look like?

495
00:28:03,080 --> 00:28:03,199
Speaker 3: That?

496
00:28:03,720 --> 00:28:05,879
Speaker 5: NO i used to drive my mom crazy if anyone,

497
00:28:06,000 --> 00:28:09,760
Speaker 5: left you, know cabinet's open or drawers, open and he

498
00:28:09,840 --> 00:28:14,600
Speaker 5: drives me. Crazy but, no we never left it like.

499
00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:19,040
Speaker 1: That it's hard For liz to tell what's missing and

500
00:28:19,119 --> 00:28:23,000
Speaker 1: what the police have. Seized the professional cleaners hired to

501
00:28:23,080 --> 00:28:27,200
Speaker 1: clean up crime scenes have already come through and everything's

502
00:28:27,280 --> 00:28:31,320
Speaker 1: been moved. About she thinks the SMALL tv which was

503
00:28:31,359 --> 00:28:35,480
Speaker 1: in her parents', bedroom, jewelry and her mom's anti seizure

504
00:28:35,520 --> 00:28:40,520
Speaker 1: medication are all. Gone then she goes into the, Garage

505
00:28:41,120 --> 00:28:43,560
Speaker 1: jim's man, cave his happy.

506
00:28:43,600 --> 00:28:47,720
Speaker 5: PLACE i used to love to sit out in the

507
00:28:47,760 --> 00:28:49,840
Speaker 5: garage with him and watch him. Work Like i'd always

508
00:28:49,920 --> 00:28:52,680
Speaker 5: asked him to teach me how to do, things and

509
00:28:52,720 --> 00:28:54,320
Speaker 5: he was, like you're going to cut your hand. Off

510
00:28:54,360 --> 00:28:56,680
Speaker 5: there's no Way i'm going to teach you right. Now

511
00:28:56,920 --> 00:28:59,640
Speaker 5: but you can sit and. Watch you can help in other.

512
00:28:59,680 --> 00:29:03,040
Speaker 5: Ways SO i was like familiar with his. Workspace you,

513
00:29:03,080 --> 00:29:06,120
Speaker 5: know he loved his, tools he loved, building and he

514
00:29:06,200 --> 00:29:08,600
Speaker 5: loved you, know making things with his, hands working on,

515
00:29:08,680 --> 00:29:09,760
Speaker 5: cars doing these types of.

516
00:29:09,800 --> 00:29:13,960
Speaker 1: Things it was crammed with expensive looking power tools and,

517
00:29:14,040 --> 00:29:19,880
Speaker 1: machinery shelves and shelves of paint filler, sprays you, KNOW diy.

518
00:29:19,920 --> 00:29:25,400
Speaker 5: Stuff all the toolboxes had been, opened rummaged, through just

519
00:29:25,480 --> 00:29:30,920
Speaker 5: like have, hazardly just left disorganized and jumbled. Together and

520
00:29:31,120 --> 00:29:34,719
Speaker 5: that's not how my dad was very organized with his.

521
00:29:35,000 --> 00:29:37,480
Speaker 5: Tools he was just somebody who had a routine and

522
00:29:37,560 --> 00:29:39,400
Speaker 5: a set way of doing things and he just didn't

523
00:29:39,440 --> 00:29:43,400
Speaker 5: deviate from. It and so to see the way that

524
00:29:44,120 --> 00:29:47,520
Speaker 5: the garage had been left was not my dad at.

525
00:29:47,560 --> 00:29:53,959
Speaker 1: All Then liz spot something, else something totally out of,

526
00:29:54,080 --> 00:29:59,480
Speaker 1: place her old green and black backpack from middle school long,

527
00:29:59,600 --> 00:30:03,400
Speaker 1: forgot and a closet in the, house sitting on the

528
00:30:03,480 --> 00:30:05,320
Speaker 1: concrete garage.

529
00:30:04,840 --> 00:30:09,600
Speaker 5: Floor AND i thought that was, strange and SO i

530
00:30:09,720 --> 00:30:11,760
Speaker 5: kind of stood over it AND i looked into, it

531
00:30:11,800 --> 00:30:13,600
Speaker 5: AND i could see that there was an xbox in.

532
00:30:13,640 --> 00:30:16,960
Speaker 5: There BUT i didn't want to touch any of.

533
00:30:17,040 --> 00:30:20,400
Speaker 1: It liz knows from reading all of those true crime

534
00:30:20,440 --> 00:30:23,360
Speaker 1: books that touching it could contaminate vital.

535
00:30:23,400 --> 00:30:26,120
Speaker 5: Evidence and SO i called the police AND i said

536
00:30:26,160 --> 00:30:27,160
Speaker 5: he should come and look at.

537
00:30:27,160 --> 00:30:32,720
Speaker 1: This the detectives returned to the house and photograph the

538
00:30:32,760 --> 00:30:36,640
Speaker 1: backpack and the other things, that according To, liz don't add,

539
00:30:36,720 --> 00:30:40,600
Speaker 1: up but only the backpack and its contents are seats

540
00:30:40,800 --> 00:30:43,760
Speaker 1: and taken to The Harris County Forensics lab for. Testing

541
00:30:44,640 --> 00:30:49,680
Speaker 1: inside there's An, Xbox xbox, controllers An xbox, game and

542
00:30:49,760 --> 00:30:53,760
Speaker 1: more than twenty pieces of, jewelry including, earrings, rings and.

543
00:30:53,840 --> 00:31:00,480
Speaker 1: Necklaces valuables taken from the house highly pawnable items had

544
00:31:00,480 --> 00:31:03,080
Speaker 1: they been stashed in the garage by burglars who had

545
00:31:03,080 --> 00:31:05,440
Speaker 1: to flee the scene in a hurry when things got

546
00:31:05,480 --> 00:31:09,200
Speaker 1: out of. Hand could these hold the clues to who

547
00:31:09,400 --> 00:31:20,080
Speaker 1: Killed liz's Dad Jim. Melgar you've been listening To Hands,

548
00:31:20,120 --> 00:31:23,640
Speaker 1: tied a new eight part true crime series FROM Bbc

549
00:31:23,760 --> 00:31:28,680
Speaker 1: studios And iHeart. Podcasts new episodes will be released, weekly

550
00:31:28,840 --> 00:31:32,440
Speaker 1: so subscribe or follow on The iHeartRadio app or wherever

551
00:31:32,520 --> 00:31:36,640
Speaker 1: you get your podcasts so you don't miss. Out if

552
00:31:36,680 --> 00:31:39,040
Speaker 1: you like the, show please help us by spreading the

553
00:31:39,080 --> 00:31:43,240
Speaker 1: word or giving us a five star. Review I'm Maggie

554
00:31:43,320 --> 00:31:48,320
Speaker 1: Robinson katz and the producer Is Maggie. Latham sound design

555
00:31:48,400 --> 00:31:52,200
Speaker 1: and mix is By Tom. Brignell our script consultant Is

556
00:31:52,240 --> 00:31:57,000
Speaker 1: Emma weatherall production support is From Dan, Martini Elena boutang

557
00:31:57,240 --> 00:32:01,120
Speaker 1: And Mabel Finnegan, wright and our Product Action executive Is

558
00:32:01,240 --> 00:32:05,880
Speaker 1: Laura Jordan. Raul the series was developed By Anya saunders

559
00:32:06,000 --> 00:32:11,040
Speaker 1: And Emma shaw At, iHeart The Managing executive producer Is Christina,

560
00:32:11,120 --> 00:32:15,280
Speaker 1: everett and FOR Bbc, studios the executive producer Is Joe

561
00:32:15,360 --> 00:32:15,600
Speaker 1: kent