1 00:00:06,240 --> 00:00:12,680 Speaker 1: The apple capital of the world, Wanatchee, Washington. As I've 2 00:00:12,680 --> 00:00:17,239 Speaker 1: said before, nothing but apple orchards and green trees and 3 00:00:17,320 --> 00:00:19,960 Speaker 1: blue sky as far as the eye can see. Seems 4 00:00:20,000 --> 00:00:23,720 Speaker 1: like the perfect place to raise your children. Or not. 5 00:00:24,920 --> 00:00:30,560 Speaker 1: One of the biggest child sex rings scandals alleged to 6 00:00:30,600 --> 00:00:34,760 Speaker 1: have exist, possibly in our country's history. How did all 7 00:00:34,800 --> 00:00:46,840 Speaker 1: of this go down? And Wanatchi? Or did it where 8 00:00:46,840 --> 00:00:52,760 Speaker 1: we left off? The Doggets and the Robertson's are behind bars, 9 00:00:53,159 --> 00:00:59,040 Speaker 1: four parents, mom, dad, mom dad, the Dogget family and 10 00:00:59,400 --> 00:01:05,400 Speaker 1: the robbers and family totally torn apart. What happens next? 11 00:01:07,360 --> 00:01:10,480 Speaker 1: Did the whole case start with the voice of a 12 00:01:10,520 --> 00:01:13,200 Speaker 1: single person. I know everybody has their own truth, but 13 00:01:13,319 --> 00:01:16,640 Speaker 1: I know what my truth is. Do you feel like 14 00:01:17,480 --> 00:01:21,240 Speaker 1: you've ever had the chance to tell your story? Not really, No, 15 00:01:21,240 --> 00:01:24,280 Speaker 1: nobody really wanted to listen to what I had to say. 16 00:01:25,080 --> 00:01:35,320 Speaker 1: And do you want to? Yes? My name's Donna Everett. 17 00:01:35,440 --> 00:01:38,399 Speaker 1: My name is Donna Everett and it starts right there. 18 00:01:39,080 --> 00:01:44,240 Speaker 1: As you will recall, the Nacci child sex investigation started 19 00:01:44,720 --> 00:01:52,800 Speaker 1: with Detective Perez, Bob Perez Foster daughter that daughter with 20 00:01:52,920 --> 00:01:58,640 Speaker 1: us now Donna Everett also joining us today, Tom Grant 21 00:01:58,960 --> 00:02:02,520 Speaker 1: award winning journalist, co executive producer of In the Valley 22 00:02:02,560 --> 00:02:05,320 Speaker 1: of Sin, and you can find him at doctor Thomas 23 00:02:05,400 --> 00:02:10,960 Speaker 1: Grant dot com. Doctor Elizabeth LOFTUS Distinguished Professor, joining US 24 00:02:11,240 --> 00:02:16,600 Speaker 1: University California. Leading human memory expert, author of The Myth 25 00:02:16,919 --> 00:02:21,280 Speaker 1: of the Repressed Memory. Catherine Lyon, author of witch Hunt, 26 00:02:21,320 --> 00:02:25,440 Speaker 1: A True Story of social hysteria and Abused justice. Former 27 00:02:25,560 --> 00:02:30,600 Speaker 1: public defender in Pierce County, Washington, and frank Jenny Special 28 00:02:30,639 --> 00:02:35,000 Speaker 1: Guests joining US Deputy Prosecuting Attorney in Franklin County Prosecutor 29 00:02:35,200 --> 00:02:39,639 Speaker 1: and the Winnati sex srine cases. First to you, Donna, 30 00:02:39,760 --> 00:02:43,680 Speaker 1: how did it occur that you became the foster daughter 31 00:02:43,760 --> 00:02:48,840 Speaker 1: of Bob Perez, the investigator. I was taking from my 32 00:02:50,800 --> 00:02:53,200 Speaker 1: school and was told that I was going to be 33 00:02:53,280 --> 00:02:56,799 Speaker 1: put to CBS office, and that's when Lucy pres came 34 00:02:56,880 --> 00:03:00,679 Speaker 1: and picked me up a TBS office Bob Perez's wife. Yes, 35 00:03:01,680 --> 00:03:10,080 Speaker 1: and before that your parents were who by Dylan and 36 00:03:10,160 --> 00:03:19,560 Speaker 1: Harold Everett. They Everett's end up being arrested, do they not, Yes, 37 00:03:19,720 --> 00:03:24,560 Speaker 1: they did. What do you remember of that? I remember 38 00:03:24,680 --> 00:03:28,880 Speaker 1: when I was living with Bopararez, we were supposed to 39 00:03:28,919 --> 00:03:31,800 Speaker 1: be reunited back to my family. I think it was 40 00:03:31,840 --> 00:03:34,720 Speaker 1: like a week before we were supposed to be united 41 00:03:34,760 --> 00:03:39,880 Speaker 1: back into my family. Bob, we were on our way 42 00:03:39,920 --> 00:03:42,240 Speaker 1: to school. I was on my way with Bopararez to 43 00:03:42,320 --> 00:03:45,880 Speaker 1: school and he just popped the question, has your parents 44 00:03:45,880 --> 00:03:49,600 Speaker 1: ever sexually molested you? How old were you? Donna? I 45 00:03:49,640 --> 00:03:53,720 Speaker 1: think I was nineteen at the time, And I told 46 00:03:53,800 --> 00:03:55,880 Speaker 1: him no at first, and then he's like, oh, well, 47 00:03:55,880 --> 00:03:58,360 Speaker 1: we'll talk about this when you get home from school. 48 00:03:58,800 --> 00:04:01,320 Speaker 1: And did you after we came home from the school, 49 00:04:01,360 --> 00:04:04,320 Speaker 1: That's when it all. She's like, well, I know it happened. 50 00:04:05,800 --> 00:04:09,240 Speaker 1: I know that your parents such molested you. And then 51 00:04:09,280 --> 00:04:13,720 Speaker 1: that's what it all starving And at this time, had 52 00:04:13,760 --> 00:04:17,400 Speaker 1: your parents already been arrested? Yes? And what were the 53 00:04:17,480 --> 00:04:20,160 Speaker 1: charges against your parents? Oh? No, I don't think they 54 00:04:20,160 --> 00:04:22,960 Speaker 1: were arrested yet, not until like the next day or 55 00:04:22,960 --> 00:04:25,520 Speaker 1: the next couple of days after that. And what were 56 00:04:25,520 --> 00:04:29,839 Speaker 1: the charges leveled against them, such a molestation? You and 57 00:04:29,920 --> 00:04:32,960 Speaker 1: your sister Melinda went to live with a Paris family 58 00:04:33,040 --> 00:04:38,280 Speaker 1: after your dad, Harold and your mom Ideala were removed 59 00:04:38,320 --> 00:04:41,640 Speaker 1: from the home for abuse and couldn't take care of 60 00:04:41,680 --> 00:04:46,960 Speaker 1: all the children. When you got home that day from school. 61 00:04:47,120 --> 00:04:52,279 Speaker 1: What happened? Harold removed from the home for abuse and 62 00:04:52,360 --> 00:04:56,480 Speaker 1: couldn't take care of all the children when you got 63 00:04:56,560 --> 00:05:00,920 Speaker 1: home that day from school? What happened? Remember sitting at 64 00:05:00,960 --> 00:05:06,480 Speaker 1: the table with him and Lucy Perez and him just 65 00:05:06,680 --> 00:05:09,360 Speaker 1: scolding me that he knew that I was sexually molested 66 00:05:09,400 --> 00:05:12,719 Speaker 1: by my parent and what was Lucy doing? She was 67 00:05:12,760 --> 00:05:15,120 Speaker 1: just it and that listening to the whole thing. Take 68 00:05:15,120 --> 00:05:17,559 Speaker 1: a listen to this, Like, I know that you've been 69 00:05:17,600 --> 00:05:21,279 Speaker 1: sexually molested, and I was sexually molested, but it was 70 00:05:21,279 --> 00:05:24,360 Speaker 1: not by my parents. And he's like, I know your 71 00:05:24,360 --> 00:05:28,120 Speaker 1: parents did it. And he tried to tell me that, oh, well, 72 00:05:28,160 --> 00:05:32,120 Speaker 1: your sister Melinda already told me. And I told him, no, 73 00:05:32,400 --> 00:05:35,520 Speaker 1: we were never sexually abused. And he said, I know 74 00:05:35,600 --> 00:05:38,160 Speaker 1: that you were involved in the church, and I know 75 00:05:38,560 --> 00:05:40,599 Speaker 1: other kids have said it already, that you guys have 76 00:05:40,680 --> 00:05:44,000 Speaker 1: all been sexually molested. To Catherine Lying, An author of 77 00:05:44,120 --> 00:05:47,360 Speaker 1: Which Hunt True Story of Social Hysteria and Abused Justice, 78 00:05:48,920 --> 00:05:53,920 Speaker 1: isn't that where the entire case originates from? Bob Perez 79 00:05:54,200 --> 00:05:58,640 Speaker 1: and his Van Foster daughter Donna Everett, Yes, that that 80 00:05:58,960 --> 00:06:02,479 Speaker 1: was really the sore of the whole theory of the 81 00:06:03,240 --> 00:06:08,200 Speaker 1: sex abuse within Onnachi Valley, and it was weird, definitely. 82 00:06:09,800 --> 00:06:11,440 Speaker 1: I could tell you a little bit more about the 83 00:06:11,520 --> 00:06:14,000 Speaker 1: law of surrounding this if you want to hear it 84 00:06:14,080 --> 00:06:18,480 Speaker 1: that basically there's been a incentive for every state, all 85 00:06:18,560 --> 00:06:23,560 Speaker 1: fifty states could get additional funding if there followed certain 86 00:06:24,640 --> 00:06:29,480 Speaker 1: methodology in terms of interviewing children. And essentially what it 87 00:06:29,520 --> 00:06:33,200 Speaker 1: came down to is that if they want this matching money, 88 00:06:32,920 --> 00:06:37,279 Speaker 1: they really have the incentive to try to follow the rules. 89 00:06:37,320 --> 00:06:42,320 Speaker 1: And the rules include not accepting statements that were made 90 00:06:42,800 --> 00:06:45,760 Speaker 1: in denial because it was considered in fact that denial 91 00:06:45,880 --> 00:06:48,800 Speaker 1: and that itself was a symptom of abuse. And so 92 00:06:48,839 --> 00:06:53,080 Speaker 1: the repeated interrogation and so on was actually encouraged by 93 00:06:53,080 --> 00:06:56,640 Speaker 1: this body of law starting from the belief of the 94 00:06:56,680 --> 00:06:59,560 Speaker 1: abuse and confronting the child that their belief it had happened, 95 00:06:59,560 --> 00:07:03,360 Speaker 1: and just being relentless in pursuing that theory. So a 96 00:07:03,360 --> 00:07:05,080 Speaker 1: lot of cases came out at that time, and this 97 00:07:05,120 --> 00:07:09,680 Speaker 1: one was certainly symptomatic of that. Wow to Frank Jenny, 98 00:07:09,880 --> 00:07:14,080 Speaker 1: definitely prosecuting attorney there in one NATCHI it sounds like 99 00:07:14,360 --> 00:07:18,120 Speaker 1: quite the catch twenty two. If you say yes, I 100 00:07:18,200 --> 00:07:21,160 Speaker 1: was molested, there's an investigation. If you say no, I 101 00:07:21,280 --> 00:07:24,880 Speaker 1: wasn't molested, there's going to be an investigation because that's 102 00:07:24,920 --> 00:07:27,280 Speaker 1: considered a sign of sex abuse. If you say no, 103 00:07:27,400 --> 00:07:30,080 Speaker 1: I wasn't molested, I mean, at the very get go 104 00:07:30,280 --> 00:07:34,200 Speaker 1: with Donna saying that didn't happen. Isn't that a fatal 105 00:07:34,240 --> 00:07:37,920 Speaker 1: flaw in a case? But they don't want agree that 106 00:07:37,960 --> 00:07:40,880 Speaker 1: there was ever anything a fall pattern along goals of 107 00:07:40,880 --> 00:07:45,720 Speaker 1: lines and as far as something being necessary to obtain funding, 108 00:07:46,320 --> 00:07:49,760 Speaker 1: that was never anything that ever entered into consideration. When 109 00:07:49,800 --> 00:07:56,240 Speaker 1: you hear Donna speaking, now, does that change? I mean, 110 00:07:56,520 --> 00:07:58,920 Speaker 1: how does that affect your thinking as you look back 111 00:07:58,960 --> 00:08:04,080 Speaker 1: on the prosecution. You know, it's very difficult. I don't 112 00:08:04,080 --> 00:08:06,920 Speaker 1: know how much of this Donna remembers, but the first 113 00:08:06,920 --> 00:08:12,120 Speaker 1: time I ever met her, she and a CPS worker 114 00:08:12,920 --> 00:08:16,679 Speaker 1: and I met in a conference room at the CPS office, 115 00:08:16,800 --> 00:08:20,480 Speaker 1: and Donna had her teddy bear with her, and when 116 00:08:21,000 --> 00:08:24,640 Speaker 1: I started to talk to her about the events that 117 00:08:24,720 --> 00:08:28,440 Speaker 1: happened at the Pentecostal church, which is the case I 118 00:08:28,520 --> 00:08:32,160 Speaker 1: was working on, she just hid behind her teddy bear 119 00:08:32,240 --> 00:08:36,120 Speaker 1: and then wouldn't talk. And the first time I met 120 00:08:36,160 --> 00:08:39,640 Speaker 1: her she wouldn't say anything at all about what had happened. 121 00:08:40,400 --> 00:08:43,320 Speaker 1: And this was after she had already given statements to 122 00:08:43,400 --> 00:08:46,400 Speaker 1: the police and arrest has been made in those cases. 123 00:08:46,480 --> 00:08:51,440 Speaker 1: And at first I didn't know if she it was 124 00:08:51,480 --> 00:08:55,760 Speaker 1: just traumatized by the events and wasn't willing to talk 125 00:08:55,800 --> 00:09:00,960 Speaker 1: about them or or what you know. But I at 126 00:09:01,040 --> 00:09:03,120 Speaker 1: that point didn't know where things were going to go 127 00:09:03,200 --> 00:09:06,400 Speaker 1: with the prosecution, because this was a case where she 128 00:09:06,440 --> 00:09:11,080 Speaker 1: would definitely have to be testifying as a witness. It's 129 00:09:11,200 --> 00:09:14,000 Speaker 1: time went on, she did begin to say more things 130 00:09:14,040 --> 00:09:18,280 Speaker 1: about what had happened and opened up a little bit 131 00:09:18,320 --> 00:09:21,560 Speaker 1: about it. But really, and until the time we actually 132 00:09:21,600 --> 00:09:25,439 Speaker 1: got to court in the case and involving the defendant, 133 00:09:25,440 --> 00:09:28,480 Speaker 1: Hannah Simms, I honestly didn't know whether she would be 134 00:09:28,520 --> 00:09:33,280 Speaker 1: able to testify about the things that had happened. Frank, 135 00:09:33,360 --> 00:09:36,080 Speaker 1: let me ask you this. You're saying you didn't know 136 00:09:36,120 --> 00:09:38,120 Speaker 1: it all the way up until the time you went 137 00:09:38,200 --> 00:09:41,520 Speaker 1: to trial, if she would be able to testify. But 138 00:09:42,800 --> 00:09:48,240 Speaker 1: did you know as you went into trial that she 139 00:09:48,440 --> 00:09:53,480 Speaker 1: had said affirmatively that she had been molested. Did you 140 00:09:53,559 --> 00:09:56,960 Speaker 1: ever hear her say that she did she did to 141 00:09:57,200 --> 00:10:02,720 Speaker 1: you in meetings with myself and others, not just with 142 00:10:02,880 --> 00:10:06,000 Speaker 1: myself alone, but you did with your own ears. Hear 143 00:10:06,040 --> 00:10:18,040 Speaker 1: her say that that's correct. Yes, Climb stories with Nancy Grace. 144 00:10:19,679 --> 00:10:25,440 Speaker 1: Donna Everett. I know this is incredibly painful, and I 145 00:10:25,520 --> 00:10:28,880 Speaker 1: want you to keep in mind that everything that happened 146 00:10:29,920 --> 00:10:35,200 Speaker 1: happened when you were very very young and haven't been 147 00:10:35,240 --> 00:10:41,479 Speaker 1: taken away from your parents and questioned and questioned and questioned. 148 00:10:42,240 --> 00:10:45,439 Speaker 1: Take a listen to Donna. From there, it went to 149 00:10:45,679 --> 00:10:50,160 Speaker 1: the neighbors and then other people's homes and asked me, oh, 150 00:10:50,200 --> 00:10:51,920 Speaker 1: do you know this person? How do you know that 151 00:10:52,000 --> 00:10:56,040 Speaker 1: person who lives there? And if I would tell them 152 00:10:56,040 --> 00:10:59,679 Speaker 1: if I knew who they were. There was one guy 153 00:10:59,800 --> 00:11:03,720 Speaker 1: that he was actually outside when we pulled up, and Wellsley, 154 00:11:03,800 --> 00:11:05,839 Speaker 1: do you know him? And I didn't know who that 155 00:11:06,000 --> 00:11:10,280 Speaker 1: I was, but I remembered the saying that I was 156 00:11:10,320 --> 00:11:13,959 Speaker 1: actually abused by am Yes to Donna Everett joining us 157 00:11:14,000 --> 00:11:18,959 Speaker 1: and speaking out about her role in the Wenatchi prosecutions, 158 00:11:19,200 --> 00:11:23,040 Speaker 1: often called the Wenatchi witch Hunt. Donna Everett, when you 159 00:11:23,200 --> 00:11:26,640 Speaker 1: look back on the so called parade of homes, this 160 00:11:26,720 --> 00:11:30,760 Speaker 1: is when I don't really feel right about calling him 161 00:11:30,800 --> 00:11:35,320 Speaker 1: your foster dad. But this is when Detective Bob Perez 162 00:11:36,600 --> 00:11:40,240 Speaker 1: was acting as your foster dad, and he got you 163 00:11:40,320 --> 00:11:43,880 Speaker 1: in the car, and you guys drove and drove and drove. 164 00:11:44,200 --> 00:11:48,720 Speaker 1: It's been called the Parade of homes often or the 165 00:11:49,120 --> 00:11:54,199 Speaker 1: hit parade, many different the drive Vice Hadden, many names. 166 00:11:54,559 --> 00:11:58,280 Speaker 1: What happened during in that car? During that drive, Donna, 167 00:11:58,480 --> 00:12:02,319 Speaker 1: all I really remember is we rill to almost everybody's house. 168 00:12:02,520 --> 00:12:07,959 Speaker 1: That it started at my mom and dad's house eight 169 00:12:08,040 --> 00:12:12,280 Speaker 1: thirty eight Chemist Street, and it ended up the Pentecostal 170 00:12:12,360 --> 00:12:17,680 Speaker 1: Church of God. Donna, I've got to ask you, did 171 00:12:17,800 --> 00:12:22,920 Speaker 1: these molestations happen? No, they did not. I was actually molested, 172 00:12:23,000 --> 00:12:25,520 Speaker 1: but not by anybody that was in the Sex Street. 173 00:12:25,760 --> 00:12:28,400 Speaker 1: When were you molested, dear? I was still when I 174 00:12:28,440 --> 00:12:32,680 Speaker 1: was living with my mom and my dad, my sister's 175 00:12:32,760 --> 00:12:37,040 Speaker 1: at boyfriend Moore. Did you ever tell Perez you were 176 00:12:37,080 --> 00:12:41,000 Speaker 1: not molested that by the people he was accusing, only 177 00:12:41,160 --> 00:12:44,520 Speaker 1: by your sister's ex. Yes, And what would he say? 178 00:12:44,800 --> 00:12:47,640 Speaker 1: He told me I was waiting, Donna, Why did you 179 00:12:49,040 --> 00:12:53,640 Speaker 1: tell people like Frank Jenny? And my experience, most prosecutors 180 00:12:53,640 --> 00:12:58,920 Speaker 1: are good. Yes, there's some bad ones, but generally they're 181 00:12:58,960 --> 00:13:06,040 Speaker 1: good people trying to do right. Why did you? First 182 00:13:06,040 --> 00:13:08,040 Speaker 1: of all, I'm really surprised there would be a group 183 00:13:08,120 --> 00:13:11,280 Speaker 1: setting where you have a child in a group setting 184 00:13:11,800 --> 00:13:14,800 Speaker 1: with a lot of adults talking about how they were 185 00:13:15,040 --> 00:13:21,520 Speaker 1: sex molested. I find that very uncommon, having tried many, 186 00:13:21,559 --> 00:13:27,640 Speaker 1: many child molestation cases. But that said, why did you 187 00:13:28,200 --> 00:13:31,319 Speaker 1: continue to tell the story you were molested? Because I 188 00:13:31,400 --> 00:13:36,839 Speaker 1: was physically tied to tables, I was putting cold bows, 189 00:13:37,040 --> 00:13:41,440 Speaker 1: I was I had handhoused to tables. I was just 190 00:13:41,559 --> 00:13:45,040 Speaker 1: locked in the basement until he got Barbara's got the 191 00:13:45,080 --> 00:13:49,400 Speaker 1: answers he wanted from me to Tom Grant Award winning 192 00:13:49,559 --> 00:13:56,120 Speaker 1: journalist weight In Well, I am extremely proud of Donna 193 00:13:56,240 --> 00:14:00,880 Speaker 1: for coming forward and saying this. I mean, she has 194 00:14:00,880 --> 00:14:04,679 Speaker 1: a family of her own now, she's she's living, you know, 195 00:14:05,520 --> 00:14:08,680 Speaker 1: a good life with their community and her church, and 196 00:14:08,880 --> 00:14:12,880 Speaker 1: she's just really impressive now. And and I feel so 197 00:14:12,920 --> 00:14:16,560 Speaker 1: sad that when she was placed in foster care with 198 00:14:16,640 --> 00:14:20,760 Speaker 1: this detective that that she was. I feel does she 199 00:14:20,880 --> 00:14:24,680 Speaker 1: end up with him? I mean, it is own clear 200 00:14:24,720 --> 00:14:26,680 Speaker 1: to me how she ended up with him, but I 201 00:14:26,760 --> 00:14:29,960 Speaker 1: think that, um, you know, this is one of the 202 00:14:30,040 --> 00:14:32,880 Speaker 1: mysteries of Whennachie is that the Child Protective Services and 203 00:14:33,480 --> 00:14:37,960 Speaker 1: the detective, the detective crew, like Perez, we're working together 204 00:14:38,080 --> 00:14:42,160 Speaker 1: to um to try and uncover something that actually wasn't there, 205 00:14:42,200 --> 00:14:46,800 Speaker 1: and they pursued it to all ends, including persecuting and 206 00:14:47,320 --> 00:14:51,000 Speaker 1: the children that were in their care too. Doctor Elizabeth Loftus, 207 00:14:51,080 --> 00:14:57,680 Speaker 1: Distinguished Professor, University California joining us. Yea, doctor Loftus, It's 208 00:14:57,720 --> 00:15:03,240 Speaker 1: just very hard for me to imagine the guilt that 209 00:15:03,400 --> 00:15:07,440 Speaker 1: these children, not just Donna. We say kick started the 210 00:15:07,440 --> 00:15:11,000 Speaker 1: whole thing. It was kick started by Perez, and Donna 211 00:15:11,160 --> 00:15:15,080 Speaker 1: was his tool the way I see it. But there 212 00:15:15,120 --> 00:15:17,440 Speaker 1: are other children in addition to Donna. It's not just 213 00:15:17,520 --> 00:15:23,160 Speaker 1: her children that were essentially made to blame their mothers 214 00:15:23,160 --> 00:15:28,600 Speaker 1: and fathers and others of sex raping them, sex molesting them. 215 00:15:30,080 --> 00:15:33,760 Speaker 1: And even when they tried to recant, nobody would listen. 216 00:15:35,160 --> 00:15:39,600 Speaker 1: The guilt of carrying that around your whole life. I 217 00:15:39,640 --> 00:15:45,880 Speaker 1: sent my mom and dad to jail wrongly. That is crippling, Nancy. 218 00:15:46,120 --> 00:15:49,240 Speaker 1: I couldn't agree with you you more. And when I 219 00:15:49,320 --> 00:15:53,400 Speaker 1: listened to Donna talk about her experience, I know from 220 00:15:53,400 --> 00:15:56,480 Speaker 1: my work on a number of these cases that lots 221 00:15:56,480 --> 00:15:59,000 Speaker 1: of bad things were going on with these kids, not 222 00:15:59,160 --> 00:16:04,600 Speaker 1: taking no for an answer, reinforcing claims of abuse, refusing 223 00:16:04,680 --> 00:16:08,800 Speaker 1: to accept denials. But this is the first I've heard 224 00:16:08,840 --> 00:16:12,960 Speaker 1: about cold baths and other tactics that may have also 225 00:16:13,080 --> 00:16:18,480 Speaker 1: been going on. I mean, as you know, my mother 226 00:16:18,760 --> 00:16:22,320 Speaker 1: lives with me, nine year old mother. My dad's passed away, 227 00:16:22,720 --> 00:16:25,600 Speaker 1: and the thought that I could have ever caused them, 228 00:16:26,040 --> 00:16:31,760 Speaker 1: even a moment's trouble or harm, would just be crippling 229 00:16:31,800 --> 00:16:36,160 Speaker 1: to me. The fact that Donna Everett has the backbone 230 00:16:36,400 --> 00:16:40,200 Speaker 1: along with the others to say this did not happen. 231 00:16:41,240 --> 00:16:46,240 Speaker 1: I lied. It doesn't matter that they were forced to lie. 232 00:16:46,960 --> 00:16:50,640 Speaker 1: There were children encouraged to lie. To stand up and 233 00:16:50,760 --> 00:16:56,640 Speaker 1: say that and speak the truth. That's impressive, Donna Everett. 234 00:16:56,960 --> 00:17:00,200 Speaker 1: A lot of people can never admit they do anything 235 00:17:00,200 --> 00:17:04,160 Speaker 1: wrong ever. And you have to understand when we're talking 236 00:17:04,200 --> 00:17:08,159 Speaker 1: about this, Donna, my children are thirteen right now, and 237 00:17:08,400 --> 00:17:11,359 Speaker 1: I consider them to be very naive. A right I 238 00:17:11,520 --> 00:17:15,359 Speaker 1: shelter them if someone arrested them, took them away and said, 239 00:17:15,359 --> 00:17:16,960 Speaker 1: the only way you can get back to your mother 240 00:17:17,000 --> 00:17:19,320 Speaker 1: and fathers if you say this, I think, let's say it. 241 00:17:19,760 --> 00:17:23,720 Speaker 1: Even though they knew it was a lie their children. Guys, 242 00:17:23,760 --> 00:17:26,680 Speaker 1: I want you to take a listen. We're talking about 243 00:17:26,680 --> 00:17:30,880 Speaker 1: the so called tour of homes where Detective Perez took 244 00:17:31,040 --> 00:17:34,359 Speaker 1: his new foster daughter, Donna Everett, all around town, asking 245 00:17:34,400 --> 00:17:36,960 Speaker 1: her to blame people and point out people at the 246 00:17:36,960 --> 00:17:39,959 Speaker 1: age of about nine years old who had sex molested her. 247 00:17:40,600 --> 00:17:44,119 Speaker 1: Take a listen to this. She tells this story about 248 00:17:44,119 --> 00:17:48,080 Speaker 1: how they do the wild thing in various places. There 249 00:17:48,080 --> 00:17:51,480 Speaker 1: would be fifteen or twenty adults, at least fifteen children. 250 00:17:52,119 --> 00:17:54,600 Speaker 1: When we got there, they took four kids upstairs, the 251 00:17:54,640 --> 00:17:56,880 Speaker 1: parents took them. The rest of them. The kids had 252 00:17:56,880 --> 00:18:01,119 Speaker 1: to stay downstairs and watch a sick movie. The people 253 00:18:01,160 --> 00:18:04,679 Speaker 1: in this movie we're doing sex. It was a sex movie. 254 00:18:05,760 --> 00:18:10,000 Speaker 1: Pastor Abbie did the welding at the church. The adults 255 00:18:10,080 --> 00:18:13,560 Speaker 1: undressed and got any line and took turns with everyone. 256 00:18:14,080 --> 00:18:16,800 Speaker 1: It was touching things, the loud thing, and we had 257 00:18:16,840 --> 00:18:20,960 Speaker 1: to touch them too. My grandpa touched us with his 258 00:18:21,040 --> 00:18:23,240 Speaker 1: hands on my privates. He put his finger inside of me. 259 00:18:24,000 --> 00:18:26,200 Speaker 1: He also touched me with his privates, it went inside 260 00:18:26,200 --> 00:18:28,760 Speaker 1: of me. He made touch his private with his hand. 261 00:18:29,800 --> 00:18:34,960 Speaker 1: This just seems crazy, absurd. Straight to Tom Grant, that 262 00:18:35,000 --> 00:18:38,240 Speaker 1: you're hearing the co executive producer in the Valley of Sin, 263 00:18:38,480 --> 00:18:43,640 Speaker 1: doctor Thomas Grant. It does seem far fetched to me, 264 00:18:44,600 --> 00:18:49,359 Speaker 1: only because it's extremely rare, and I think Frank Genie 265 00:18:49,359 --> 00:18:52,440 Speaker 1: will agree with me on this. The deputy prosecuting attorney 266 00:18:52,440 --> 00:18:58,080 Speaker 1: in that jurisdiction, to see a group of adults molesting 267 00:18:58,200 --> 00:19:04,760 Speaker 1: a group of children, especially when there are mothers involved 268 00:19:05,200 --> 00:19:10,520 Speaker 1: in the molestation, Tom, that's almost unheard of. It is. 269 00:19:10,560 --> 00:19:13,679 Speaker 1: It was many of these things that were Bengalas were 270 00:19:13,680 --> 00:19:16,960 Speaker 1: absurd on their face, and when you tried to, you know, 271 00:19:16,960 --> 00:19:19,720 Speaker 1: when you talk to other people who were supposedly there, 272 00:19:19,800 --> 00:19:23,440 Speaker 1: you got entirely different stories. And the children did not 273 00:19:23,560 --> 00:19:26,440 Speaker 1: even agree on what their story was. The stories were 274 00:19:26,760 --> 00:19:32,560 Speaker 1: being focused through one detective in cooperation with Child Protective Services, 275 00:19:32,600 --> 00:19:36,600 Speaker 1: to drive a narrative that that was crazy. And my 276 00:19:36,640 --> 00:19:38,960 Speaker 1: opinion is the children knew they were telling stories that 277 00:19:39,040 --> 00:19:42,679 Speaker 1: were crazy, and that's why they didn't expect people to 278 00:19:42,720 --> 00:19:55,800 Speaker 1: believe them. Climb Stories with Nancy Grace to Donna Everett, 279 00:19:55,960 --> 00:19:59,480 Speaker 1: the child of Harold and Idella Everett, one of five, 280 00:20:00,240 --> 00:20:04,240 Speaker 1: he became the foster daughter of Bob and Lucy Perez, 281 00:20:04,359 --> 00:20:08,879 Speaker 1: Detective Perez. When you look back on these statements, where 282 00:20:08,880 --> 00:20:12,600 Speaker 1: did that idea come from that the pastor in the church, 283 00:20:12,680 --> 00:20:15,200 Speaker 1: with a whole group of adults, men and women, fathers 284 00:20:15,200 --> 00:20:19,960 Speaker 1: and mothers, would do something called the wild Thing where 285 00:20:20,000 --> 00:20:23,159 Speaker 1: basically the adults would molest the children in the church. 286 00:20:23,560 --> 00:20:26,879 Speaker 1: Where did that fantastical story come from? Bob Paros is 287 00:20:26,920 --> 00:20:30,040 Speaker 1: the one that came up with the wild Thing. There 288 00:20:30,040 --> 00:20:34,560 Speaker 1: would be constantly days but we would just he would 289 00:20:34,560 --> 00:20:37,280 Speaker 1: just sit there and like in the morning to gore 290 00:20:37,400 --> 00:20:39,600 Speaker 1: school or after school that he would just sit there 291 00:20:39,600 --> 00:20:41,760 Speaker 1: and tell me, Oh, this is how I want you 292 00:20:41,840 --> 00:20:45,880 Speaker 1: to see this happen. And it was an every day thing. 293 00:20:45,960 --> 00:20:48,160 Speaker 1: Did you ever get to see your parents doing all 294 00:20:48,160 --> 00:20:52,320 Speaker 1: of this? I did not. When did you finally see 295 00:20:52,359 --> 00:20:55,639 Speaker 1: them again for the first time? I believe I was 296 00:20:57,840 --> 00:21:02,400 Speaker 1: sixteen or seventeen when I ran away from my group 297 00:21:02,440 --> 00:21:05,320 Speaker 1: home that I was in in Spokane, Washington. Why were 298 00:21:05,359 --> 00:21:08,080 Speaker 1: you put in a great home because I was called 299 00:21:08,200 --> 00:21:12,280 Speaker 1: a difficult child and nobody suppose that I wasn't able 300 00:21:12,480 --> 00:21:14,840 Speaker 1: to be in a Fosse home. Nobody could handle me. 301 00:21:14,960 --> 00:21:18,600 Speaker 1: I want to go to Frank Jenny, also speaking out today. 302 00:21:18,840 --> 00:21:22,720 Speaker 1: Frank was a Deputy prosecuting attorney in Franklin County, Washington. 303 00:21:24,640 --> 00:21:30,639 Speaker 1: Frank what was your reaction when you first heard of 304 00:21:31,000 --> 00:21:35,159 Speaker 1: saw these cases? When I first heard of these cases, 305 00:21:35,920 --> 00:21:38,080 Speaker 1: you know, I'm talking specifically now about the ones in 306 00:21:38,400 --> 00:21:44,560 Speaker 1: Douglas County that I worked on, everybody was keptival at first. 307 00:21:44,640 --> 00:21:49,320 Speaker 1: I heard about this from a detective Way who was 308 00:21:49,320 --> 00:21:55,399 Speaker 1: with the Douglas County Sheriff's Office, Detective Perez that told 309 00:21:55,480 --> 00:21:58,399 Speaker 1: him that he believed that there was a what he 310 00:21:58,480 --> 00:22:03,879 Speaker 1: called a storefront church East Wenacci where all of the 311 00:22:03,920 --> 00:22:07,440 Speaker 1: adults would would take the children into a back room 312 00:22:07,480 --> 00:22:11,439 Speaker 1: after the services were completed and have sex with them. 313 00:22:12,400 --> 00:22:17,119 Speaker 1: And the detective Wagon at first was very skeptical of that. 314 00:22:17,920 --> 00:22:20,960 Speaker 1: And well, yeah, I mean, I'm not saying that molestations 315 00:22:21,000 --> 00:22:23,399 Speaker 1: don't happen in a church, because they have. They have 316 00:22:23,560 --> 00:22:28,440 Speaker 1: happened in churches. Yeah, but this setting where you've got 317 00:22:28,480 --> 00:22:36,119 Speaker 1: a group of unconnected parishioners or congregants all agreeing to 318 00:22:36,280 --> 00:22:42,159 Speaker 1: molest children, including mothers. Look, and I say that no 319 00:22:42,240 --> 00:22:45,440 Speaker 1: offense to fathers, but typically a child molester is a male. 320 00:22:46,160 --> 00:22:49,080 Speaker 1: So to see mothers and fathers molesting little children at 321 00:22:49,119 --> 00:22:52,800 Speaker 1: the church, I find that really hard to believe, So yes, 322 00:22:52,880 --> 00:22:54,960 Speaker 1: I would have been skeptical. So then what happened, Frank 323 00:22:55,000 --> 00:22:59,280 Speaker 1: The next thing I heard about a week ten days later, 324 00:22:59,600 --> 00:23:03,199 Speaker 1: we see the phone call from the detective Perez had 325 00:23:03,280 --> 00:23:07,960 Speaker 1: from Detective Wag. From Detective Wag with Douglas County, I 326 00:23:08,160 --> 00:23:11,639 Speaker 1: want to know about the possibly getting a search warrant 327 00:23:11,680 --> 00:23:15,359 Speaker 1: for the church building. And I asked him when I 328 00:23:15,440 --> 00:23:18,639 Speaker 1: was this the storefront church you were telling me about that? 329 00:23:18,800 --> 00:23:22,359 Speaker 1: The detective Perez wanted you to investigate and said that 330 00:23:22,400 --> 00:23:26,159 Speaker 1: it was and I asked him, well, now, when we 331 00:23:26,240 --> 00:23:29,840 Speaker 1: talked about this before, you were very skeptical as to 332 00:23:29,880 --> 00:23:32,560 Speaker 1: whether anything was ever going to come of that has 333 00:23:32,640 --> 00:23:36,520 Speaker 1: something changed? And well, what had changed was is that 334 00:23:36,520 --> 00:23:40,000 Speaker 1: that a woman had confessed to taking part in these 335 00:23:40,760 --> 00:23:44,600 Speaker 1: sex orgies of the church, and that woman was Linda Miller. 336 00:23:45,880 --> 00:23:50,840 Speaker 1: And once Linda Miller had had confessed, and then everybody 337 00:23:51,440 --> 00:23:54,240 Speaker 1: accepted that as a fact, that started believing it was 338 00:23:54,320 --> 00:23:59,000 Speaker 1: real because Linda Miller allegedly confessed. That's correct, that's correct. 339 00:23:59,760 --> 00:24:02,120 Speaker 1: That was the attitude at that time. Well, I can 340 00:24:02,200 --> 00:24:04,520 Speaker 1: say that adding a little bit of credibility to get 341 00:24:04,520 --> 00:24:08,280 Speaker 1: one of the parents actually confessing to your knowledge, Tom Grant, 342 00:24:09,280 --> 00:24:13,119 Speaker 1: how does Linda Miller fit into this? Linda Miller was 343 00:24:13,280 --> 00:24:16,359 Speaker 1: she was trying to run with her children to Canada 344 00:24:16,480 --> 00:24:18,360 Speaker 1: because she was so afraid of what was happening when 345 00:24:18,359 --> 00:24:21,480 Speaker 1: Ante and that she would be arrested. They picked her 346 00:24:21,560 --> 00:24:23,800 Speaker 1: up north of win As she brought her back, she'd 347 00:24:23,800 --> 00:24:26,760 Speaker 1: been awake for almost twenty four hours before that she 348 00:24:26,840 --> 00:24:30,080 Speaker 1: made this confession, and she was repeatedly questioned and then 349 00:24:30,600 --> 00:24:35,320 Speaker 1: and then she basically signed whatever Detective Prez wandered her design. 350 00:24:35,359 --> 00:24:37,800 Speaker 1: And she said later on that it was it was 351 00:24:37,840 --> 00:24:40,360 Speaker 1: all his words, that he was putting the words therefore, 352 00:24:40,800 --> 00:24:44,879 Speaker 1: and she she recanted very shortly thereafter, but it was 353 00:24:44,920 --> 00:24:48,040 Speaker 1: too late. She recanted after that, but it was too light. 354 00:24:48,440 --> 00:24:52,359 Speaker 1: Listen to this. There's you know who are than twenty 355 00:24:52,440 --> 00:24:56,600 Speaker 1: places listed here. They're following other locations and in some 356 00:24:56,680 --> 00:24:59,520 Speaker 1: instances the names of the persons living at those locations 357 00:24:59,560 --> 00:25:07,360 Speaker 1: at the time. With that the sexual abuses occurred. Nine 358 00:25:07,440 --> 00:25:15,080 Speaker 1: oh five Kashmere Street, Donna's former residence Ferry Street, Man 359 00:25:15,119 --> 00:25:22,200 Speaker 1: known as Charlie five fifteen Marjo Street and one Natche 360 00:25:22,760 --> 00:25:27,879 Speaker 1: Friends of the Everetts. Twenty one Kashmere Barbara Garis and 361 00:25:28,080 --> 00:25:34,280 Speaker 1: children eight ten Kashmere Street, Christine Hughes seven oh nine 362 00:25:34,440 --> 00:25:37,760 Speaker 1: and a half Medhouse Street. Donna describes the mother as 363 00:25:37,880 --> 00:25:41,520 Speaker 1: fat with black hair, and then at some point, Donna 364 00:25:41,600 --> 00:25:46,119 Speaker 1: Everett starts pointing out places where men in black robes. 365 00:25:46,280 --> 00:25:52,080 Speaker 1: So we're having sex with children this place there, in 366 00:25:52,119 --> 00:25:55,120 Speaker 1: that place there, and that place there, three or nine 367 00:25:55,160 --> 00:25:58,440 Speaker 1: Hawthorne Street, there would be fifteen or twenty adults seven 368 00:25:58,520 --> 00:26:01,280 Speaker 1: or eight Third Street would line up and take turns 369 00:26:01,320 --> 00:26:05,200 Speaker 1: having sex with the children. Ramona Street, Robert Devereaux's House, 370 00:26:05,520 --> 00:26:09,440 Speaker 1: eleven h seven Westwood, Linda Miller's apartment. To think that 371 00:26:09,560 --> 00:26:13,480 Speaker 1: all of these people would somehow engage in a conspiracy 372 00:26:13,920 --> 00:26:18,159 Speaker 1: neighbors to molest a lot of their own children in 373 00:26:18,320 --> 00:26:23,480 Speaker 1: a group orgy setting, I've actually never seen a case 374 00:26:23,720 --> 00:26:27,840 Speaker 1: like it, Frank Jenny, Deputy Prosecuting Attorney, Franklin County. When 375 00:26:27,880 --> 00:26:31,400 Speaker 1: did you first start suspecting this wasn't real? I mean, 376 00:26:31,720 --> 00:26:34,880 Speaker 1: Linda Miller says Perez told her she did not sign 377 00:26:34,920 --> 00:26:38,160 Speaker 1: the confession, her children would be taken away from her. 378 00:26:38,359 --> 00:26:43,040 Speaker 1: You know. As it start to actually interview the witnesses 379 00:26:43,119 --> 00:26:48,040 Speaker 1: in preparation for the trial, more and more I began 380 00:26:48,080 --> 00:26:53,360 Speaker 1: to have some concerns about it. As sim was mentioned earlier, 381 00:26:53,400 --> 00:26:56,320 Speaker 1: a lot of the statements just didn't didn't seem to 382 00:26:56,320 --> 00:27:03,000 Speaker 1: add up. And also there were any number of witnesses 383 00:27:03,240 --> 00:27:05,760 Speaker 1: that I had no idea existed at the time the 384 00:27:05,840 --> 00:27:10,720 Speaker 1: charges were first filed that supported the defendant's version of 385 00:27:10,760 --> 00:27:14,719 Speaker 1: the events, and uh, you know, some of those witnesses 386 00:27:14,800 --> 00:27:21,680 Speaker 1: were quite credible or came across that way. So as 387 00:27:21,680 --> 00:27:24,119 Speaker 1: we got closer and closer to the to the trial, 388 00:27:24,880 --> 00:27:27,640 Speaker 1: I began to have some concerns about it. And then 389 00:27:28,240 --> 00:27:33,440 Speaker 1: I also talked to some other people with the knowledge 390 00:27:33,440 --> 00:27:37,639 Speaker 1: of these cases. Of I remember John Henry Brown, who's 391 00:27:38,520 --> 00:27:41,640 Speaker 1: I'm Nancy, you're from your product. I'm sure you're familiar 392 00:27:41,640 --> 00:27:45,600 Speaker 1: with that name, but he's well known defense attorney here 393 00:27:45,640 --> 00:27:50,679 Speaker 1: in the Northwest. He had been representing a applied in 394 00:27:50,960 --> 00:27:55,400 Speaker 1: Land County in one of these similar cases. He came 395 00:27:55,480 --> 00:27:59,439 Speaker 1: up listened to the opening statements in Hannah Sims trial, 396 00:28:00,440 --> 00:28:04,359 Speaker 1: and after that he came down to my office and 397 00:28:04,960 --> 00:28:07,680 Speaker 1: he and I talked. He and I get along pretty well, 398 00:28:07,720 --> 00:28:14,400 Speaker 1: even though he's he's a defense attorney. Yeah, he expressed 399 00:28:14,440 --> 00:28:18,000 Speaker 1: concerns to me about these cases and I could could 400 00:28:18,000 --> 00:28:21,000 Speaker 1: tell it was more than just a defense attorney. Being 401 00:28:21,080 --> 00:28:24,199 Speaker 1: a defense attorney, I could tell he actually did have 402 00:28:25,119 --> 00:28:28,280 Speaker 1: some concerns about these cases. And that was one of 403 00:28:28,320 --> 00:28:31,720 Speaker 1: the things that got me thinking more and more that 404 00:28:31,760 --> 00:28:34,840 Speaker 1: there might be some problems with these cases. Now, that 405 00:28:35,040 --> 00:28:38,320 Speaker 1: was while Hannah Sin's trial was actually going on, of course, 406 00:28:38,400 --> 00:28:41,760 Speaker 1: but you know, I thought about that more and more 407 00:28:41,800 --> 00:28:43,960 Speaker 1: as time went on, but she still went forward with 408 00:28:44,000 --> 00:28:46,680 Speaker 1: the cases with with that one trial, we did, yes, 409 00:28:47,000 --> 00:29:02,720 Speaker 1: exactly climb stories with Nancy Grace to Catherine Lyon, author 410 00:29:02,760 --> 00:29:08,160 Speaker 1: of a witch Hunt, Katherine, you're hearing that Linda Miller 411 00:29:08,440 --> 00:29:10,640 Speaker 1: says Perez told her if she did not sign the 412 00:29:10,640 --> 00:29:13,800 Speaker 1: confession she would lose her children. I would do, I think, 413 00:29:13,840 --> 00:29:19,160 Speaker 1: almost anything to keep my children. Well, yes, as would I. 414 00:29:19,760 --> 00:29:23,640 Speaker 1: But yeah, that was exactly what. Then. It wasn't just 415 00:29:23,760 --> 00:29:27,400 Speaker 1: Linda Miller. This was the pattern they had to confess 416 00:29:27,440 --> 00:29:30,840 Speaker 1: to keep their children, which ironically was the opposite. And 417 00:29:30,920 --> 00:29:33,920 Speaker 1: the children are also told they had to say it 418 00:29:33,960 --> 00:29:36,040 Speaker 1: happened if they wanted to go back to their parents, 419 00:29:36,040 --> 00:29:40,400 Speaker 1: and neither one is just entirely you know, at Catch 420 00:29:40,480 --> 00:29:43,840 Speaker 1: twenty two, nobody can possibly resist that kind of pressure 421 00:29:44,280 --> 00:29:46,360 Speaker 1: and I also wanted to point out that these kids, 422 00:29:46,600 --> 00:29:51,920 Speaker 1: it wasn't just what the police were doing, but it 423 00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:55,520 Speaker 1: was also what the mental health professionals were doing. These 424 00:29:55,600 --> 00:29:59,880 Speaker 1: kids without with barely any exception, were sent to phine 425 00:30:00,040 --> 00:30:04,320 Speaker 1: Crest Mental Hospital in Gordolaine, Idaho, where they were garcerated 426 00:30:04,360 --> 00:30:08,640 Speaker 1: there and repeatedly question and told that it happened, and 427 00:30:08,680 --> 00:30:10,720 Speaker 1: they knew it happened, and those people were aware that 428 00:30:10,760 --> 00:30:14,120 Speaker 1: there were groups of people involved in this, and so 429 00:30:14,280 --> 00:30:19,479 Speaker 1: the combination of therapy, case workers and police was just 430 00:30:19,640 --> 00:30:23,920 Speaker 1: overpowering to the kids. And these kids were damaged, seriously 431 00:30:24,000 --> 00:30:28,320 Speaker 1: damaged by this refusal to accept the truth. We know 432 00:30:28,520 --> 00:30:33,920 Speaker 1: that Linda Miller, who added a similar credibility to all 433 00:30:34,240 --> 00:30:39,400 Speaker 1: of these child sex molestation claims in her confession. When 434 00:30:39,440 --> 00:30:43,000 Speaker 1: you have one of the accused adults actually confessing to 435 00:30:43,040 --> 00:30:47,920 Speaker 1: all the molestations, suddenly the case seems to have some 436 00:30:48,040 --> 00:30:51,479 Speaker 1: skin on the bones. But I want you to listen 437 00:30:51,600 --> 00:30:54,840 Speaker 1: to this. I asked Miller what happened after the adults 438 00:30:54,840 --> 00:30:57,680 Speaker 1: were finished with the children, and she said, we would 439 00:30:57,720 --> 00:31:00,520 Speaker 1: give them donuts, chocolate, milk, and cupcakes, all kinds of 440 00:31:00,560 --> 00:31:04,440 Speaker 1: stuff like that. It just seemed like no one would 441 00:31:04,440 --> 00:31:07,520 Speaker 1: have confessed to something like that unless it were true. 442 00:31:10,600 --> 00:31:13,320 Speaker 1: So why did you sign him at the end? First 443 00:31:13,360 --> 00:31:14,840 Speaker 1: of all, I didn't think he was ever going to 444 00:31:14,960 --> 00:31:18,600 Speaker 1: let me out of that room, and because he threatened 445 00:31:18,600 --> 00:31:21,320 Speaker 1: me that I'd never seen my children at Kenna and 446 00:31:21,480 --> 00:31:23,680 Speaker 1: he would make sure of it. Straight back out to 447 00:31:23,680 --> 00:31:28,480 Speaker 1: Tom Grant. Award winning journalists formerly with k R E. M. 448 00:31:29,120 --> 00:31:34,960 Speaker 1: Miller eventually recanted during the trial of a Sunday school teacher, 449 00:31:35,240 --> 00:31:40,920 Speaker 1: Hannah Simms, who worked at Robertson's Church. After Linda Miller 450 00:31:41,040 --> 00:31:44,960 Speaker 1: recanted explaining why she ever signed the confession to start with, 451 00:31:45,320 --> 00:31:49,040 Speaker 1: the jury told the prosecutor they thought none of the 452 00:31:49,080 --> 00:31:56,280 Speaker 1: cases should go forward. Shortly after that, Frank Jenny with 453 00:31:56,400 --> 00:32:00,160 Speaker 1: us Today had a falling out with his boss and resigned. 454 00:32:01,120 --> 00:32:04,240 Speaker 1: What do you make of her recantation, Tom Grant? Why 455 00:32:04,240 --> 00:32:08,320 Speaker 1: weren't Why didn't all the cases stop right then? Well? 456 00:32:08,600 --> 00:32:11,640 Speaker 1: They had, They had gone so far and so many 457 00:32:11,680 --> 00:32:15,880 Speaker 1: people were prosecutor as child you know, protective services people, 458 00:32:16,040 --> 00:32:19,800 Speaker 1: that police were so deeply invested in it that for 459 00:32:19,840 --> 00:32:22,719 Speaker 1: them to stop then would have been an admission that 460 00:32:22,800 --> 00:32:25,800 Speaker 1: they were wrong and the person they were after was 461 00:32:25,880 --> 00:32:28,920 Speaker 1: not Hannah Sims, who they lost lost the case against. 462 00:32:29,320 --> 00:32:34,040 Speaker 1: They were after Pastor Robbie Robertson and his case was 463 00:32:34,120 --> 00:32:36,440 Speaker 1: coming up next. And I think if they would have 464 00:32:36,480 --> 00:32:40,000 Speaker 1: given up then and said stop it, that they would 465 00:32:40,000 --> 00:32:42,920 Speaker 1: have been it would have been setting themselves up to 466 00:32:42,960 --> 00:32:46,360 Speaker 1: look like they were stupid all along. Yeah. I always 467 00:32:46,400 --> 00:32:49,480 Speaker 1: compare it to asking a judge that just presided over 468 00:32:49,520 --> 00:32:52,560 Speaker 1: a jury trial to grant emotion for new trial because 469 00:32:52,600 --> 00:32:55,640 Speaker 1: of all the errors in the trial that he just 470 00:32:55,720 --> 00:32:59,040 Speaker 1: presided over. That's never going to happen. So when you're 471 00:32:59,040 --> 00:33:01,040 Speaker 1: in it so deep, I guess is what you're saying 472 00:33:01,680 --> 00:33:05,360 Speaker 1: and you realize maybe you have television, you can't realize 473 00:33:05,360 --> 00:33:09,960 Speaker 1: what you're doing is wrong. To frank Jenny There, Deputy 474 00:33:10,000 --> 00:33:15,000 Speaker 1: Prosecuting Attorney Franklin County, Washington, did you ever try to 475 00:33:15,040 --> 00:33:20,960 Speaker 1: stop the prosecutions. Well, here's here's what happened. First of all, 476 00:33:21,000 --> 00:33:26,680 Speaker 1: you mentioned with the jurors said Ahamed Sims case. They 477 00:33:26,760 --> 00:33:30,440 Speaker 1: actually said that to the judge that it's customary in 478 00:33:30,520 --> 00:33:34,080 Speaker 1: that jurisdiction for the judge to meet with the jurors 479 00:33:34,120 --> 00:33:38,600 Speaker 1: after the trial. The jurors actually volunteered the fact to 480 00:33:39,360 --> 00:33:44,600 Speaker 1: Judge John Bridges that they didn't think the other cases 481 00:33:44,640 --> 00:33:48,280 Speaker 1: you should go forward. And he of course explained to 482 00:33:48,320 --> 00:33:51,640 Speaker 1: them what his role was as a judge and unless 483 00:33:51,640 --> 00:33:56,840 Speaker 1: it's something that's emotion before the court, that it is 484 00:33:56,880 --> 00:34:00,520 Speaker 1: properly before him for a consideration. That wasn't something that 485 00:34:00,520 --> 00:34:04,520 Speaker 1: he had authority unilaterally to do, but he would convey 486 00:34:04,600 --> 00:34:13,080 Speaker 1: that to the prosecutor. Steve Clem, the colected prosecutor, talked 487 00:34:13,120 --> 00:34:16,759 Speaker 1: to Judge Bridges. In fact, I think Tom was down 488 00:34:16,800 --> 00:34:18,799 Speaker 1: in the office talking to me at the time that 489 00:34:19,360 --> 00:34:23,880 Speaker 1: Steve was upstairs talking to the judge. Judge Bridges conveyed 490 00:34:23,920 --> 00:34:30,600 Speaker 1: that to Steve Klem, and then he and I talked 491 00:34:30,600 --> 00:34:34,080 Speaker 1: about that later, and then I told him that I 492 00:34:34,560 --> 00:34:37,120 Speaker 1: really did have some concerns about the cases and that 493 00:34:38,680 --> 00:34:41,600 Speaker 1: I think the way I put it, wouldn't break my 494 00:34:41,680 --> 00:34:47,600 Speaker 1: heart to dismiss the other charges that were sending. And 495 00:34:48,040 --> 00:34:50,759 Speaker 1: then we were other ones that we had beending in 496 00:34:50,760 --> 00:34:54,360 Speaker 1: Douglas County were the ones against pastor and missus Robertson, 497 00:34:54,400 --> 00:34:57,120 Speaker 1: and there was also a case against gentleman name of 498 00:34:57,160 --> 00:35:01,040 Speaker 1: Bill Davis, who was a bus driver for the Right Right. 499 00:35:01,160 --> 00:35:04,399 Speaker 1: So you did, in fact, I mentioned it, I want 500 00:35:04,400 --> 00:35:08,759 Speaker 1: to go to Tom Grant, Tom, why were they so 501 00:35:08,840 --> 00:35:12,040 Speaker 1: hot to get the pastor Robert Because the pastor had 502 00:35:12,040 --> 00:35:16,839 Speaker 1: been the most vocal person in the community challenging what 503 00:35:17,040 --> 00:35:21,200 Speaker 1: was going on there. He knew the Everett family and 504 00:35:21,280 --> 00:35:26,120 Speaker 1: he believed that there had been no abuse by the 505 00:35:26,160 --> 00:35:29,239 Speaker 1: parents of the children there because he'd been in the 506 00:35:29,280 --> 00:35:31,839 Speaker 1: home again and again and again, and he spoke out 507 00:35:31,960 --> 00:35:35,320 Speaker 1: so adamantly that he became a target. Thank to Donna 508 00:35:35,400 --> 00:35:39,640 Speaker 1: Everett joining us, the middle child of Harold and Ideala 509 00:35:39,760 --> 00:35:44,799 Speaker 1: Everett's five children, the former foster daughter of Bob and 510 00:35:44,920 --> 00:35:50,959 Speaker 1: Lucy Perez. Detective Perez, Donna. This has been characterized as 511 00:35:51,560 --> 00:35:58,280 Speaker 1: by saying that because of you, the entire one Atche 512 00:35:58,960 --> 00:36:03,080 Speaker 1: witch hunt occurred. Heard, I don't think that's true. I 513 00:36:03,120 --> 00:36:10,360 Speaker 1: think it is because of Detective Perez's pride, his desire 514 00:36:10,440 --> 00:36:17,000 Speaker 1: for power, his arrogance. And you were used as a 515 00:36:17,080 --> 00:36:22,799 Speaker 1: child as a tool. When you hear all this discussion, 516 00:36:23,800 --> 00:36:26,440 Speaker 1: how does that make you feel? I mean, I understand 517 00:36:26,440 --> 00:36:29,160 Speaker 1: where is coming from, because yes, I was a child, 518 00:36:29,680 --> 00:36:33,680 Speaker 1: but yes I Boparez used me as a tool. I 519 00:36:33,920 --> 00:36:40,120 Speaker 1: was his target and he had this ego and I 520 00:36:40,239 --> 00:36:42,759 Speaker 1: was just used for his ego. Did you try to 521 00:36:42,800 --> 00:36:45,840 Speaker 1: tell people this did not happen to me. I was 522 00:36:45,880 --> 00:36:49,920 Speaker 1: not molested by them. I told Katie Carroll, I told 523 00:36:50,480 --> 00:36:55,760 Speaker 1: Rie Alexander, I told Connie multiple times, but nobody believed 524 00:36:55,760 --> 00:36:59,480 Speaker 1: me because they were all friends. They all we did 525 00:36:59,520 --> 00:37:03,000 Speaker 1: tool part He's at my house, at Bob and Lucy's 526 00:37:03,000 --> 00:37:06,719 Speaker 1: house almost every other weekend. They were all. It was 527 00:37:06,760 --> 00:37:09,480 Speaker 1: just like a big social thing almost every other weekend. 528 00:37:09,560 --> 00:37:13,320 Speaker 1: So the Child Protective Service workers were having pool parties 529 00:37:13,480 --> 00:37:18,320 Speaker 1: at Detective Perez's home. Yeah, and you were there, Yeah, 530 00:37:18,400 --> 00:37:21,640 Speaker 1: Tom Grant. What did he hope to gain? What did 531 00:37:21,680 --> 00:37:25,120 Speaker 1: Perez want out of all this? He became one of 532 00:37:25,160 --> 00:37:28,399 Speaker 1: the best known detective in when anchie for one thing. 533 00:37:28,480 --> 00:37:32,120 Speaker 1: And I think that he was a that he believed 534 00:37:32,239 --> 00:37:35,279 Speaker 1: his own delusions, that he that once he got the 535 00:37:35,320 --> 00:37:38,480 Speaker 1: allegation from a child or an adult that something had happened, 536 00:37:38,840 --> 00:37:41,759 Speaker 1: that he believed that was the truth, and that there 537 00:37:41,880 --> 00:37:47,120 Speaker 1: was no other possibility to Elizabeth Loftis, Doctor Loftus, Distinguished Professor, 538 00:37:47,360 --> 00:37:52,400 Speaker 1: author of the Myth of Repressed Memory. Listening to Donna 539 00:37:52,480 --> 00:37:57,279 Speaker 1: Everett today, don't you think if any of this had 540 00:37:57,320 --> 00:38:01,600 Speaker 1: been true she would be able to re ember it now? Well? 541 00:38:01,640 --> 00:38:05,600 Speaker 1: Don't think about awful things that truly did happen to them. 542 00:38:05,600 --> 00:38:07,520 Speaker 1: They don't think about them for a long time and 543 00:38:07,960 --> 00:38:12,400 Speaker 1: can be reminded of them. But given the extensiveness of 544 00:38:12,440 --> 00:38:16,879 Speaker 1: these supposed acts over long periods of time and so 545 00:38:17,080 --> 00:38:22,000 Speaker 1: repeated supposedly, you would think you would think that these 546 00:38:22,680 --> 00:38:26,440 Speaker 1: these kids would remember if it actually really happened. What 547 00:38:26,600 --> 00:38:31,480 Speaker 1: do you make the theory of repressed memories? Victim at 548 00:38:31,560 --> 00:38:35,000 Speaker 1: least one in this case, an alleged victim was sent 549 00:38:35,080 --> 00:38:37,800 Speaker 1: to therapy and tried to run away by the way 550 00:38:38,520 --> 00:38:45,640 Speaker 1: to retrieve repressed memories of being molested, But there were 551 00:38:45,680 --> 00:38:50,399 Speaker 1: no memories. That's the big problem here. The you can 552 00:38:50,840 --> 00:38:54,879 Speaker 1: not think about something and be reminded of it. That's 553 00:38:55,040 --> 00:38:59,719 Speaker 1: ordinary forgetting and remembering. But this idea that you can 554 00:38:59,800 --> 00:39:06,080 Speaker 1: be brutalized extensively over long periods and banish this into 555 00:39:06,080 --> 00:39:10,840 Speaker 1: the unconscious, there really is no credible scientific support for 556 00:39:10,920 --> 00:39:14,759 Speaker 1: that memory is routinely working this way. If ever, to 557 00:39:15,200 --> 00:39:21,520 Speaker 1: Donna Everett, who by many accounts started the whole investigation, again, 558 00:39:21,600 --> 00:39:24,560 Speaker 1: I believe she was used as a tool by the detective. 559 00:39:26,040 --> 00:39:32,439 Speaker 1: Donna Howe. Has this entire scenario affected your life even now. 560 00:39:32,680 --> 00:39:36,400 Speaker 1: I mean I don't have any contact with well, I 561 00:39:36,440 --> 00:39:39,920 Speaker 1: have a little contact with my brothers, but most of 562 00:39:39,960 --> 00:39:45,560 Speaker 1: my family I have no contact with. I have conduct 563 00:39:45,600 --> 00:39:47,919 Speaker 1: when my mom still sees in a nursing home where 564 00:39:47,920 --> 00:39:52,359 Speaker 1: I live. But that's the only person that I really 565 00:39:52,440 --> 00:39:55,920 Speaker 1: even talked to. Why because we were never able to 566 00:39:55,960 --> 00:39:59,040 Speaker 1: commit when we were little. We weren't able to see 567 00:39:59,040 --> 00:40:01,600 Speaker 1: each other. We weren't able, That is it. I think 568 00:40:01,760 --> 00:40:05,080 Speaker 1: since we lost that contact, we don't have it now. 569 00:40:05,320 --> 00:40:08,520 Speaker 1: Do you feel guilty at all about all of these 570 00:40:08,560 --> 00:40:13,600 Speaker 1: people's lives being torn apart, children taken away from their parents, 571 00:40:13,680 --> 00:40:17,439 Speaker 1: people going to jail that were actually innocent. I do, 572 00:40:19,120 --> 00:40:20,759 Speaker 1: But at the same time, I know it was not 573 00:40:20,880 --> 00:40:24,440 Speaker 1: my fault. To Tom Grant, co executive producer in the 574 00:40:24,520 --> 00:40:29,440 Speaker 1: Valley of Sin, I don't think that these people's lives 575 00:40:29,480 --> 00:40:33,200 Speaker 1: will ever be put right again. No, they won't, and 576 00:40:33,560 --> 00:40:37,760 Speaker 1: including Donna. Donna has done a remarkable job of putting 577 00:40:37,760 --> 00:40:40,600 Speaker 1: her life back together, and I'm the way she speaks 578 00:40:40,640 --> 00:40:46,200 Speaker 1: now indicates to me an intelligence that many people might ignore. 579 00:40:46,480 --> 00:40:50,799 Speaker 1: But but this has been so traumatic for everybody that 580 00:40:50,840 --> 00:40:53,640 Speaker 1: they still suffer from, you know, from bad dreams and 581 00:40:54,640 --> 00:40:57,200 Speaker 1: loss of a part of their life that was tremendously 582 00:40:57,239 --> 00:41:01,640 Speaker 1: important and you can't replace that will come next. I 583 00:41:01,800 --> 00:41:08,600 Speaker 1: almost shudder to think of it. Nancy Grace in the 584 00:41:08,680 --> 00:41:12,080 Speaker 1: Valley of Sin, signing off goodbye friend,