WEBVTT - Episode 61: Indoor vs. Outdoor Fitting 0:00:00.320 --> 0:00:01.160 The guys from PING. 0:00:01.240 --> 0:00:03.800 They've kind of shown me how much the equipment matters. 0:00:04.080 --> 0:00:05.920 I just love that I can hit any shot. I 0:00:06.000 --> 0:00:07.560 kind of want we're gonna be able to tell some 0:00:07.600 --> 0:00:09.879 fun stories about what goes on here to help golfers 0:00:09.880 --> 0:00:10.600 play better golf. 0:00:11.360 --> 0:00:13.960 Hey, everybody, Welcome back to the Ping Proven Grounds Podcast. 0:00:14.000 --> 0:00:16.560 I'm Shane Bacon, joined as always by Marty Jerts and 0:00:16.640 --> 0:00:21.320 Marty not where you live, necessarily, not where PING exists, 0:00:21.360 --> 0:00:23.520 but in a lot of parts of the country it's 0:00:23.520 --> 0:00:26.440 cool and off and golfers still want to get their 0:00:26.440 --> 0:00:29.080 golf in and they still want to look at new product. 0:00:29.120 --> 0:00:31.880 A lot of the new products come out in January typically, 0:00:32.240 --> 0:00:34.120 and so I wanted to chat a little bit with 0:00:34.159 --> 0:00:38.040 you today about fitting, specifically the difference in fitting indoors 0:00:38.040 --> 0:00:41.640 and outdoors, because obviously everybody wants to hit shots off grass, 0:00:41.920 --> 0:00:44.360 but not everybody can, especially in the winter months. So 0:00:44.760 --> 0:00:46.519 I kind of wanted to lean on you about the 0:00:46.560 --> 0:00:51.280 big differences in what happens when you get fit, let's say, indoors, 0:00:51.440 --> 0:00:54.080 off mats things like that, versus you know, go into 0:00:54.080 --> 0:00:57.680 the proving grounds getting fit on perfect grass and ideal conditions. 0:00:58.200 --> 0:01:00.760 Yeah, I know, it's a great question. I think it's 0:01:00.800 --> 0:01:04.240 a lot. It's it's weighing on the minds of a 0:01:04.280 --> 0:01:06.319 lot of golfers and actually a lot of club fitters. 0:01:06.319 --> 0:01:09.640 Is one of our most common question from fitters, because 0:01:09.640 --> 0:01:13.959 a lot of fitting environments are indoors. Is hey, what 0:01:14.040 --> 0:01:17.760 are these differences? What can I do with my golfer, right, 0:01:17.880 --> 0:01:21.800 to simulate more of an outdoor environment? What are let's 0:01:21.880 --> 0:01:24.679 compare and contrast some of those differences, and getting fit 0:01:24.760 --> 0:01:28.040 indoors is not all a negative thing, right, I'll give 0:01:28.080 --> 0:01:32.040 a few examples of this. To get fit outdoors, you 0:01:32.680 --> 0:01:35.480 have the advantage of if you have a launch monitor 0:01:35.520 --> 0:01:37.720 your fitter as a launch monitor that can track full 0:01:37.800 --> 0:01:41.280 down range ballflight. That's an advantage, right. You also can 0:01:41.360 --> 0:01:44.200 hit off the turf, so you can really evaluate the 0:01:44.280 --> 0:01:46.920 turf interaction of the golf club for your irons or wedges. 0:01:47.280 --> 0:01:50.240 Those are some of the really big advantages in the 0:01:50.240 --> 0:01:54.480 outdoor environment. You can see visually the curve. Luckily, nowadays 0:01:54.560 --> 0:01:58.000 launch monitors are great. You can get nice curve information 0:01:58.040 --> 0:02:00.960 and indoor environments as well. So those are the advantages 0:02:01.040 --> 0:02:04.400 of getting fit outdoors. But a lot of times it's 0:02:04.440 --> 0:02:07.680 hard to find a facility that you can hit really 0:02:07.800 --> 0:02:11.799 premium golf balls outdoors, right, It's rare. It is rare. 0:02:12.000 --> 0:02:14.040 We're lucky here at the proving grounds. We're hitting prov 0:02:14.160 --> 0:02:17.000 one x's and things of that nature. The tour players 0:02:17.200 --> 0:02:20.960 they get to hit premium golf balls. So an advantage 0:02:21.000 --> 0:02:24.720 of getting fit indoors is that you can hit premium 0:02:24.720 --> 0:02:27.720 golf balls right. So while you're not getting that full 0:02:27.800 --> 0:02:31.680 down range flight, hopefully you're on a launch monitor that 0:02:31.760 --> 0:02:35.840 can has really good simulation techniques for being able to 0:02:35.880 --> 0:02:39.440 simulate that full down range flight and actually hitting premium 0:02:39.480 --> 0:02:42.760 golf balls will give you sometimes better launch and spin 0:02:42.880 --> 0:02:46.160 numbers than hitting outdoors with a bad golf ball, But 0:02:46.200 --> 0:02:48.760 you do get to see the full down range flight right, 0:02:49.160 --> 0:02:53.520 So there's some pros and cons between those two different scenarios. 0:02:53.560 --> 0:02:58.280 There another advantage of getting fit indoors, and sometimes we 0:02:58.360 --> 0:03:01.440 do this when we run test chain, especially if you're 0:03:01.480 --> 0:03:05.520 trying to figure out if somebody's compensating. Let's say we 0:03:05.600 --> 0:03:08.639 give you a club with a lying goal that's two 0:03:08.680 --> 0:03:11.680 degrees upright. You might hit your first shot, you pull 0:03:11.720 --> 0:03:13.800 it to the right for you as a left handed golfer. 0:03:13.880 --> 0:03:16.120 Your next one you compensate. You stand close, so you 0:03:16.200 --> 0:03:18.680 raise your hands. You do all this stuff right now. 0:03:18.880 --> 0:03:22.560 In an indoor environment, a really skilled fitter can turn 0:03:22.639 --> 0:03:26.760 the screen off for a couple shots and blind you 0:03:26.919 --> 0:03:29.000 right and take out a little bit of that bias. 0:03:29.040 --> 0:03:32.920 You have no feedback loop. John Graham is one of 0:03:32.680 --> 0:03:35.720 our ambassadors here, does this with his tour players. When 0:03:35.720 --> 0:03:38.040 they putt. He'll have him hit left to rights and 0:03:38.120 --> 0:03:40.640 right to lefters. He'll have him hit the putt. He'll 0:03:40.680 --> 0:03:42.760 immediately kick the ball out of the way, but he'll 0:03:42.760 --> 0:03:45.520 measure where it would have gone with his launch monitor, 0:03:45.560 --> 0:03:48.280 So he effectively is doing this in an outdoor environment. 0:03:48.760 --> 0:03:51.080 So indoors you can actually do that, and a skilled 0:03:51.080 --> 0:03:55.160 fitter can use this to their advantage. Specifically when you're fitting, 0:03:55.240 --> 0:03:58.680 for example, let's say lying goal on your irons and 0:03:58.720 --> 0:04:00.960 you're trying to make sure this play player is not 0:04:01.120 --> 0:04:04.120 doing anything to accommodate for the particular ballflide and you 0:04:04.160 --> 0:04:06.920 want to see how they naturally deliver. That can actually 0:04:06.960 --> 0:04:09.640 be an advantage in an indoor environment. So premium golf 0:04:09.680 --> 0:04:14.640 ball really good friction. You can get arguably sometimes better 0:04:15.040 --> 0:04:18.920 more consistent like launch condition numbers from having that good friction, 0:04:20.080 --> 0:04:23.279 and you can, if you have a skilled fitter, be 0:04:23.320 --> 0:04:25.680 able to eliminate some of the bias. Just turn off 0:04:25.720 --> 0:04:28.359 the screen for a little bit, have them hit some shots, 0:04:28.400 --> 0:04:30.120 see how they're delivering it. They can look at the 0:04:30.240 --> 0:04:33.360 numbers on their screen, but you just mask it, mask 0:04:33.480 --> 0:04:37.039 the simulation from the player and the simulator, and those 0:04:37.080 --> 0:04:40.360 can be some of the advantages with the indoor fitting environment. 0:04:40.880 --> 0:04:43.159 What about the numbers, like in terms of what numbers 0:04:43.240 --> 0:04:46.479 might look like outdoors on a grass driving range versus 0:04:46.600 --> 0:04:47.440 numbers indoors. 0:04:47.800 --> 0:04:50.800 Yeah, drivers gonna generally be the same. Again, you know, 0:04:50.880 --> 0:04:53.320 we've kind of talked a little bit tea yep off 0:04:53.360 --> 0:04:56.599 of tea pretty clean, So drivers generally going to be 0:04:56.640 --> 0:04:58.760 the same as long as you can kind of make 0:04:58.800 --> 0:05:00.920 sure your te height is rep presentative of how you 0:05:00.960 --> 0:05:02.960 would tea at outdoors. That can be a little tricky 0:05:03.360 --> 0:05:05.480 with some of the t's and things of that nature, 0:05:05.480 --> 0:05:09.240 but driver will generally be almost identically indoors to outdoors. 0:05:09.760 --> 0:05:12.640 Once you get into a fitting club that we and 0:05:12.760 --> 0:05:15.040 most of the industry uses as a seven iron or 0:05:15.080 --> 0:05:19.120 around a seven iron, there's really good news there. Most 0:05:19.160 --> 0:05:22.000 of the time, your spin numbers will be very similar 0:05:22.000 --> 0:05:26.080 to outdoor conditions off the ground. Right now, I say 0:05:26.080 --> 0:05:28.799 that with a very big asterisk that actually the type 0:05:28.839 --> 0:05:32.120 of match you hit off can actually change this a 0:05:32.160 --> 0:05:35.520 good bit. Okay, some mats, you actually players can kind 0:05:35.520 --> 0:05:37.520 of hit the ball, hit the mat before the ball 0:05:37.600 --> 0:05:40.480 get a little dust or some of the little fibers 0:05:40.480 --> 0:05:42.159 of the mat will kind of get kicked up and 0:05:42.160 --> 0:05:44.039 get between the ball and the face and change the 0:05:44.080 --> 0:05:47.560 spin a little bit. But I think generally the good 0:05:47.600 --> 0:05:49.880 news is that we are fitting with seven irons. A 0:05:49.880 --> 0:05:52.720 lot of the industries fitting with seven irons, your launching 0:05:52.800 --> 0:05:56.159 spin can be pretty similar. But Shane, this changes when 0:05:56.160 --> 0:05:59.400 it comes to wedges. So here's my advice for folks. 0:06:00.120 --> 0:06:01.839 Seem a little weird, but if you're gonna go get 0:06:01.839 --> 0:06:07.400 fit for wedges, bring a little spray bottle with you. 0:06:07.440 --> 0:06:10.200 Bring bring your little spray bottle full of water with 0:06:10.320 --> 0:06:13.080 you to your wedge fitting. Hopefully your fitter has one 0:06:13.120 --> 0:06:15.200 and they're doing this protocol. A lot of our fitters 0:06:15.200 --> 0:06:17.960 are doing this protocol. Well will they will have you 0:06:18.040 --> 0:06:21.919 hit wedges off the mat, dry clean and dry clean 0:06:21.960 --> 0:06:25.840 the face, dry everything, grooves are clean, and compare them 0:06:25.880 --> 0:06:28.400 to your gamer. Compare them to some other wedges you 0:06:28.400 --> 0:06:31.280 want to be trying in your fitting process. And then 0:06:31.400 --> 0:06:34.400 sprits the golf ball with water, and what you want 0:06:34.400 --> 0:06:36.880 to look at is the difference in spin, and you 0:06:36.880 --> 0:06:38.840 can look at launch angle two. But these things will 0:06:38.839 --> 0:06:42.080 be tied very close together between the dry scenario and 0:06:42.160 --> 0:06:46.200 when you introduce moisture, that's going to tell you how 0:06:46.360 --> 0:06:51.000 much spin retention that club club face technology has. That's 0:06:51.040 --> 0:06:53.880 a great thing for the consumer to look at. So 0:06:54.080 --> 0:06:55.960 you maybe it may get a little funny look there, 0:06:56.360 --> 0:07:00.320 but that's a little direct to consumer empowerment technique you 0:06:59.880 --> 0:07:03.279 can use to bring into your fitting environment. Marty. 0:07:03.320 --> 0:07:05.039 I'm excited in five years from now for you to 0:07:05.080 --> 0:07:08.320 have numbers on like Fiji water versus Smart water. Like 0:07:08.360 --> 0:07:10.280 I know you're gonna eventually dive into that and get 0:07:10.280 --> 0:07:12.240 a good feel for it. This is what tap water 0:07:12.360 --> 0:07:14.760 does to a golf ball versus you know, the really 0:07:14.760 --> 0:07:18.160 elite electro lightwater. But that's a very interesting thing I've 0:07:18.200 --> 0:07:21.760 never thought about. That is like trying to trying to 0:07:21.800 --> 0:07:25.200 recreate any condition possible indoors. The other thing I've always 0:07:25.200 --> 0:07:28.840 been interested about in terms of fitting is and players 0:07:28.880 --> 0:07:30.679 have talked a lot about this in terms of their practice, 0:07:30.760 --> 0:07:32.440 right is, some guys want to go sit on the 0:07:32.480 --> 0:07:35.080 range for two hours and hit one hundred and seven irons, 0:07:35.120 --> 0:07:36.880 but some guys want it to feel a little bit 0:07:36.880 --> 0:07:39.400 more like they're playing around. What advice would you give 0:07:39.400 --> 0:07:43.240 a player that's getting indoor fitting that to make it 0:07:43.320 --> 0:07:45.480 feel a little bit more like you're hitting golf shots 0:07:45.560 --> 0:07:48.760 versus just seven iron after seven iron after seven iron. 0:07:48.840 --> 0:07:51.400 Yeah, we like to call that game like fitting okay, right, 0:07:51.480 --> 0:07:54.840 And it's great that whether it's track Man or Foreside 0:07:54.920 --> 0:07:57.520 or one of the other launch monitors or simulator software 0:07:58.520 --> 0:08:02.320 I've seen. Skytra has some really cool visuals now where 0:08:02.320 --> 0:08:04.880 they put literally a wall there. You can create some 0:08:05.120 --> 0:08:08.720 really good visuals now with the you know, launch mars 0:08:08.760 --> 0:08:11.400 have become simulators, they've married into one thing, so there's 0:08:11.440 --> 0:08:14.120 a lot of great things you can do there. Track 0:08:14.160 --> 0:08:16.760 Man simulation tools are great. We use some of their 0:08:16.800 --> 0:08:19.880 tools where you can put a player on a golf hole, right, 0:08:19.960 --> 0:08:22.760 and you want the player to feel in some scenarios 0:08:22.960 --> 0:08:24.840 some part of their fitting. So at the beginning of 0:08:24.840 --> 0:08:28.200 the fitting, you're doing foundational things. You're doing high wrist 0:08:28.240 --> 0:08:30.160 of floor, you're kind of getting lingele dialed in. You're 0:08:30.160 --> 0:08:32.720 getting launch conditions dialed in. Then when you want to 0:08:32.800 --> 0:08:35.440 really make sure that's the right liingle for the player 0:08:35.520 --> 0:08:37.760 you want to you want to put a little stress 0:08:37.800 --> 0:08:40.040 on them to see where their miss might show up. 0:08:40.440 --> 0:08:42.720 That's where you can gamify it. And we call that 0:08:42.840 --> 0:08:45.080 game like fitting chain. And what we'll do there is 0:08:45.440 --> 0:08:47.360 if we can, if we can have a tool like 0:08:47.559 --> 0:08:50.760 uh track man, we can pick a course a hole. 0:08:51.320 --> 0:08:53.120 Let me just pretend like we're doing a driver. You 0:08:53.120 --> 0:08:55.240 got a little water over to the right, a little 0:08:55.240 --> 0:08:58.400 more room to left, but still a little penalizing. We 0:08:58.440 --> 0:09:00.960 can we can pick a few holes. It's gonna representative 0:09:01.040 --> 0:09:02.480 of what that player is going to see on the 0:09:02.480 --> 0:09:05.960 golf course and focus them in. We'll take away all 0:09:06.320 --> 0:09:10.120 the barrel of balls, so the fitter controls the golf ball. 0:09:10.440 --> 0:09:13.559 You hand the player one ball at a time. Interesting, 0:09:13.600 --> 0:09:15.800 so you got one ball at a time. You try 0:09:15.840 --> 0:09:18.480 to put them in a scenario that's going to be 0:09:18.520 --> 0:09:21.600 like an encore situation and have the player hit that shot. 0:09:21.880 --> 0:09:24.200 What you can also do is have him hit that shot, 0:09:24.400 --> 0:09:26.840 then have them hit maybe a couple wedges, talk to 0:09:26.880 --> 0:09:29.000 them for a little bit, make them take a one 0:09:29.040 --> 0:09:33.160 minute break or thirty second break right, and then nudge 0:09:33.160 --> 0:09:36.000 the player, have them go through their full routine, gamify 0:09:36.080 --> 0:09:37.960 it a little bit. So there's a lot you can 0:09:38.000 --> 0:09:40.200 do there in the fitting, especially as it gets later 0:09:40.280 --> 0:09:43.280 in the fitting where you're trying to make those final selections. 0:09:43.679 --> 0:09:46.160 Is the shaft right, is the swingweight right? Do have 0:09:46.240 --> 0:09:48.840 the CG shifter? Should I put it in the fade 0:09:48.880 --> 0:09:51.080 for this player? The center position. You're getting to the 0:09:51.280 --> 0:09:54.280 fine adjustments in the fitting that you'll want to do 0:09:54.400 --> 0:09:56.760 a little bit of that gamification, some of that A 0:09:56.880 --> 0:09:57.440 B testing. 0:09:57.559 --> 0:10:00.040 Yeah, it's interesting. You know what happens in fitting and 0:10:00.120 --> 0:10:02.679 also happens in instruction, and you know, not every constructor 0:10:02.720 --> 0:10:04.760 in the world can do it. But I've got a 0:10:04.760 --> 0:10:07.760 new instructor I've been working without in Connecticut. He works 0:10:07.800 --> 0:10:10.640 out of the country clubed Dairy Anne and I think 0:10:10.640 --> 0:10:12.600 it was our third or fourth lesson, you know, thirty 0:10:12.640 --> 0:10:14.079 minutes hitting balls. He goes, all right, let's go to 0:10:14.120 --> 0:10:15.800 the golf course, you know, and it's let's go out 0:10:15.800 --> 0:10:18.200 to the golf course and see if what we're talking 0:10:18.200 --> 0:10:21.160 about now plays when you're actually hitting a golf shot 0:10:21.160 --> 0:10:24.120 on a golf hole. Because the golfer sees the stuff right, 0:10:24.160 --> 0:10:26.440 we see trouble, left, we see a tight a tuck 0:10:26.520 --> 0:10:29.720 hole location, we feel the bailout being where the bailout 0:10:29.800 --> 0:10:32.000 might exist in And it's it's just such a good 0:10:32.040 --> 0:10:34.920 thing to do in general as a golfer is to 0:10:34.960 --> 0:10:40.000 make it as as as round normal as possible, you. 0:10:39.960 --> 0:10:43.000 Know, yep. And I go back to Shane with how 0:10:43.000 --> 0:10:45.200 can we make fittings more like a tour fitting, Because 0:10:45.440 --> 0:10:48.679 let me here's how a tour fitting goes. Right. We 0:10:48.760 --> 0:10:52.360 got the truck. There were there on Monday, players like, hey, 0:10:52.360 --> 0:10:54.360 things that are a little off with my driver. Let's 0:10:54.440 --> 0:10:56.760 let's do some work, right, So maybe we build him 0:10:56.760 --> 0:10:58.600 a new driver. We got we got a new chaft. 0:10:58.640 --> 0:11:00.640 Maybe this player wants to try a little longer length 0:11:00.679 --> 0:11:03.920 to get a little more ball speed, And we got 0:11:03.920 --> 0:11:06.480 a new shaft, new driver length. Maybe a new golf 0:11:06.520 --> 0:11:08.280 ball came out, right, What are they going to do? 0:11:08.400 --> 0:11:10.240 They hit them on the range, get it dialed in, 0:11:10.280 --> 0:11:13.160 they go play nine holes Monday afternoon or Tuesday, they're 0:11:13.200 --> 0:11:15.760 going to play nine They're gonna take it to the course, right, 0:11:16.160 --> 0:11:18.920 So I think you painted the exact scenario, whether it's 0:11:18.960 --> 0:11:22.480 instruction or fitting. They have a lot of similarities. That's 0:11:22.520 --> 0:11:25.640 what the better player does. Not everyone can do that 0:11:25.720 --> 0:11:27.360 and go out to the golf course. So how can 0:11:27.360 --> 0:11:31.280 you bring that level of stress gamification, put a little 0:11:31.320 --> 0:11:33.600 heat on it, the right amount for the player in 0:11:33.640 --> 0:11:36.760 the environment, and bring that into the fitting scenario. At 0:11:36.760 --> 0:11:38.720 the Pink proven Grounds, you've been here, Shane, where we 0:11:38.800 --> 0:11:41.440 have the post on the end of our range. Yeah, 0:11:41.640 --> 0:11:47.000 exactly twenty yards wide. So you know, for some players 0:11:47.000 --> 0:11:50.120 it's like, hey, you two of those posts forty yards 0:11:50.280 --> 0:11:52.360 that's going to be an average fairway with For a 0:11:52.360 --> 0:11:55.560 lot of players. You get a tour player in and 0:11:55.640 --> 0:11:57.960 you get them in a major environment, their fairwy's gonna 0:11:57.960 --> 0:12:01.760 be twenty yards wide. We use those to gamify the fitting. 0:12:01.920 --> 0:12:04.199 There's a lot to take away all the balls and 0:12:04.360 --> 0:12:06.000 just having one golf ball there. I'll tell you that 0:12:06.080 --> 0:12:07.520 as well. That's a nice little hack. 0:12:08.040 --> 0:12:09.240 It's really really smart. 0:12:09.480 --> 0:12:09.720 Party. 0:12:09.800 --> 0:12:13.560 It feels like we're in a world now where indoor 0:12:13.640 --> 0:12:17.600 fitting has surpassed outdoor fitting. It feels like the majority 0:12:17.640 --> 0:12:19.160 of fittings these days are indoors. 0:12:19.240 --> 0:12:21.480 That fair to say, yeah, I think we see that, 0:12:21.760 --> 0:12:25.360 you know, whether it's you know, our partners at PGA 0:12:25.480 --> 0:12:29.559 Tour super Store or Golf Galaxy or Second Swings and 0:12:29.679 --> 0:12:33.719 they have beautiful fitting base, right. And the benefit is 0:12:34.000 --> 0:12:37.840 again it's not all negative. The benefit is that there's 0:12:37.880 --> 0:12:40.920 some you have great launch monitors that are measuring the 0:12:41.080 --> 0:12:44.120 key metrics that you care about. Right. I think one 0:12:44.240 --> 0:12:46.439 thing Shane I did want to bring up is is 0:12:46.920 --> 0:12:50.160 you know the turf interaction. You don't have the turf 0:12:50.240 --> 0:12:53.800 interaction interaction, So what do you do when you're fitting, 0:12:53.960 --> 0:12:57.040 lyingle and analyzing things of that nature. So we have 0:12:57.160 --> 0:12:59.679 some tools here, right, we have grind tape. You can 0:12:59.720 --> 0:13:02.520 put grind tape on the bottom very skilled fitters and 0:13:02.559 --> 0:13:04.880 I highly end is what is grind tape? 0:13:04.920 --> 0:13:06.280 Can you just expand on that a bit? 0:13:06.480 --> 0:13:10.600 Yeah, grind tape is a diagnostic tape. It's a tape 0:13:10.600 --> 0:13:13.480 when you mark it on a matt or one of 0:13:13.559 --> 0:13:16.920 our lieboards which we now called the diagnostic board come 0:13:16.960 --> 0:13:19.920 a plexiglass board you hit off, gives you a visual 0:13:20.080 --> 0:13:25.080 representation of where you're contacting. What is the pressure distribution 0:13:25.440 --> 0:13:27.520 on the bottom of the club, and that can be 0:13:27.600 --> 0:13:30.640 a proxy for what your turf interaction may be like 0:13:30.760 --> 0:13:33.920 out on the golf course. Right, So we put this 0:13:34.080 --> 0:13:36.120 tape on the bottom of the club, maybe your wedges 0:13:36.200 --> 0:13:39.400 if you're doing a wedge fitting, and if somebody hits close, 0:13:39.480 --> 0:13:43.320 if they mark or that pressure that contact is closer 0:13:43.360 --> 0:13:47.400 to the lead edge, they're generally generally steeper with a 0:13:47.480 --> 0:13:51.360 lot of shaffleing, So we can go to more bounce. Generally, right, 0:13:51.800 --> 0:13:55.960 if somebody contacts closer to the trailing edge, they generally 0:13:56.040 --> 0:13:58.199 have a little less schaffling and or might be a 0:13:58.240 --> 0:14:00.880 little shallower on their angle of attack. We can go 0:14:01.120 --> 0:14:04.520 to less bounce and try to get that golf ball 0:14:04.640 --> 0:14:07.160 contacting on the face a little bit higher. So there's 0:14:07.160 --> 0:14:10.199 a really good kind of visual indication that can be 0:14:10.280 --> 0:14:14.240 a proxy for bounce. And we can also use that 0:14:14.679 --> 0:14:17.520 lie tape or diagnostic tape that we put on the 0:14:17.559 --> 0:14:20.520 bottom of the club for liingel fitting. And the big 0:14:20.640 --> 0:14:23.440 thing I want to stress to everybody with lingle fitting indoors. 0:14:23.760 --> 0:14:26.440 Even though there's tools out there and launch monitors can 0:14:26.520 --> 0:14:30.960 measure your three D dynamic delivered lingle. That is not 0:14:31.120 --> 0:14:33.360 how you set up to the club at address, but 0:14:33.480 --> 0:14:36.320 you got the droop of the shaft, the hands raised 0:14:36.440 --> 0:14:39.360 going into impact based on the forces that you're applying 0:14:39.400 --> 0:14:43.560 to the club, so the dynamic delivery of that club 0:14:44.040 --> 0:14:46.520 A lot of fitters and even consumers, and it seems 0:14:46.640 --> 0:14:48.920 very logical to try to get that zeroed out, like 0:14:49.040 --> 0:14:52.280 you want the lingel delivered perfectly at impact, and that's 0:14:52.320 --> 0:14:54.920 what you should shoot for, and they won't pay attention 0:14:55.080 --> 0:14:56.840 to the spin on the golf ball or the curve 0:14:56.880 --> 0:14:59.400 of the golf ball. We have seen a lot of 0:14:59.520 --> 0:15:04.880 players they're perfect fitting in their irons. They will deliver 0:15:04.960 --> 0:15:09.280 it slightly flat, some players actually slightly upright. But you're 0:15:09.520 --> 0:15:12.880 solving four curve of the golf ball, right, you want 0:15:12.960 --> 0:15:17.760 to minimize the spin axis. And I would use minimizing 0:15:17.800 --> 0:15:21.680 your spin axis or curve as a more important metric 0:15:21.760 --> 0:15:24.200 from a launch monitor than trying to get zeroed out 0:15:24.280 --> 0:15:27.520 unlingle even though that sounds very good in theory, right, 0:15:27.560 --> 0:15:32.400 because there's other ways manipulating the shaftleing, manipulating the torque 0:15:32.440 --> 0:15:34.800 and twist, and the three D delivery of the club 0:15:34.920 --> 0:15:38.120 face a little bit open, a little bit close. Every 0:15:38.240 --> 0:15:40.760 player has a little bit of variability in how they 0:15:40.840 --> 0:15:42.640 do that, even our tour players, they all do it 0:15:42.640 --> 0:15:45.120 a little bit differently, but they all solve for hitting 0:15:45.160 --> 0:15:48.120 that ball very straight from a curve perspective. When it 0:15:48.160 --> 0:15:49.400 comes to lingle fitting. 0:15:49.440 --> 0:15:52.360 It sounds like something you're saying across both platforms. If 0:15:52.360 --> 0:15:54.880 you're getting fit outdoors or indoors, is trying to make 0:15:54.960 --> 0:15:58.600 it feel as golfy as possible. It's like warm up 0:15:58.640 --> 0:16:01.720 the same where something you'd when you're playing golf. Don't 0:16:01.760 --> 0:16:04.880 try to overswing or underswing. It's like, do everything you 0:16:05.040 --> 0:16:08.320 can to allow the fitter to see who you are 0:16:08.960 --> 0:16:11.240 as the golfer. You are, not somebody you're trying to 0:16:11.280 --> 0:16:14.240 be or not somebody you know the numbers. Don't don't 0:16:14.240 --> 0:16:15.960 try to beef up your numbers just because you want 0:16:16.000 --> 0:16:17.920 it to look better to the fitter, because you've got 0:16:18.040 --> 0:16:19.320 to go live with the golf clubs. 0:16:19.080 --> 0:16:21.240 That you just got fit for. Yeah. Absolutely, I mean 0:16:21.360 --> 0:16:25.200 I think I think a good fitter also, and our 0:16:25.240 --> 0:16:27.760 tour fitters are great at this will have players not 0:16:28.120 --> 0:16:30.240 you know, if it's a better player. You got to 0:16:30.360 --> 0:16:33.640 know who you're fitting, right yep. So if you're a 0:16:33.800 --> 0:16:37.440 higher handicapped player and you don't hit punch shots, you're 0:16:37.480 --> 0:16:40.760 not changing your trajectory. You're just trying to master your 0:16:40.800 --> 0:16:43.400 one skill, full swing, hit the ball solid, that's what 0:16:43.520 --> 0:16:45.960 you should be doing in your fitting. Now let's go 0:16:46.080 --> 0:16:48.440 to I remember we were doing this with Hunter Mayhan Chain. 0:16:50.160 --> 0:16:52.640 He would have an issue where when he hit a 0:16:52.760 --> 0:16:57.040 three quarter trajectory shot, his dynamic delivery would change any 0:16:57.120 --> 0:17:01.000 pull it right, So we would always he's stressing him 0:17:01.160 --> 0:17:03.600 in his fitting. It's very easy to get the tour 0:17:03.720 --> 0:17:05.520 player to come in and hit their stock shot and 0:17:05.600 --> 0:17:07.719 pure every single one. You know, we can give them 0:17:07.760 --> 0:17:09.920 a different line goal, they'll adjust, give them a different shaft, 0:17:09.920 --> 0:17:13.399 they'll adjust. Where their issues show up is when they 0:17:13.480 --> 0:17:16.600 start hitting ball above their feet, shot, ball below their feet, 0:17:16.640 --> 0:17:20.920 shot three quarter shot, control your spin. Things start to 0:17:21.080 --> 0:17:23.800 change a little bit, so you need a good fitter 0:17:23.880 --> 0:17:25.880 will have different tools in their toolbox. So if you're 0:17:25.880 --> 0:17:28.560 a better player, I would say go in there and 0:17:28.680 --> 0:17:31.240 actually try to hit. Let's say you're getting fit for irons. 0:17:31.800 --> 0:17:33.680 Hit some shots where you're trying to curve it a 0:17:33.760 --> 0:17:36.680 little bit. If that's something you do, hit some little draws, 0:17:36.760 --> 0:17:39.399 hit some little fades, hit some knockdown shots. Make that 0:17:39.640 --> 0:17:43.040 part of your fitting. If you're a higher handicap player, 0:17:43.080 --> 0:17:44.840 you're just trying to have your one swing and do 0:17:44.960 --> 0:17:47.920 it good. That's what you should do in that fitting environment. 0:17:48.000 --> 0:17:50.680 In both cases, Shane, I think you nailed it. Try 0:17:50.800 --> 0:17:55.920 to represent the types of shots that you're gonna be 0:17:55.960 --> 0:17:57.680 able to hit on the golf course. And it's really 0:17:57.720 --> 0:17:59.679 fun to gamify it. And you can do this yourself 0:17:59.720 --> 0:18:03.320 out without a fitter knowing you're doing it. You can 0:18:03.440 --> 0:18:06.439 kind of guide yourself and put a little stress on yourself. Uh, 0:18:06.560 --> 0:18:08.040 during that fitting process. 0:18:07.960 --> 0:18:11.080 When Pink comes out with new equipment, how long does 0:18:11.160 --> 0:18:13.840 a fitting like when you have to fit a tour 0:18:13.920 --> 0:18:16.119 player for new equipment, all the new equipment that Pink's 0:18:16.160 --> 0:18:17.920 coming out for, how long do those fittings last? So 0:18:18.000 --> 0:18:19.480 a couple hours long? Is it an hour? 0:18:19.960 --> 0:18:22.520 Yeah? Sometimes some of our lead players, Man, we'll go 0:18:22.640 --> 0:18:24.760 spend a half a day with them right now. And 0:18:25.320 --> 0:18:27.399 and the reason why, Shane, Let's say we want to 0:18:27.680 --> 0:18:29.600 we want to get them some equipment and then we'll 0:18:29.600 --> 0:18:31.840 go play nine holes with them or six holes. Right, 0:18:32.080 --> 0:18:34.160 we want to get that player on the golf course. 0:18:34.200 --> 0:18:38.000 It's not something every everybody has access to. I realize that, 0:18:38.560 --> 0:18:41.040 but on the tour level absolutely like a lot of 0:18:41.080 --> 0:18:43.200 times we'll get them into the equipment. Then it's it's 0:18:43.280 --> 0:18:46.800 it's always in the minds of the better player. Okay, 0:18:46.880 --> 0:18:48.359 let me go see how this does on the course. 0:18:48.760 --> 0:18:50.879 Yeah right, that's the default. You got to take it 0:18:50.960 --> 0:18:54.800 to the golf course. So when we're launching something with UH, 0:18:55.320 --> 0:18:58.680 with our our our PGA Tour top players, we'll take 0:18:58.720 --> 0:19:00.640 it out on the golf course. And like I said, 0:19:01.359 --> 0:19:04.000 I think for the everyday golfer, even myself, I'm here 0:19:04.119 --> 0:19:06.159 here at the proving grounds, We're going to try to 0:19:06.200 --> 0:19:09.879 bring that on course into the into the fitting and 0:19:10.200 --> 0:19:13.080 UH and it's super fun. That's actually a big area 0:19:13.160 --> 0:19:16.000 we're still working on is how can we gamify and 0:19:16.119 --> 0:19:19.800 create really good protocols to kind of have that on 0:19:20.040 --> 0:19:21.800 course type environment during your fitting. 0:19:22.080 --> 0:19:24.560 Has there ever been a thought in terms of like 0:19:24.880 --> 0:19:29.200 adding terrain to the range shit ping, like adding it 0:19:29.280 --> 0:19:32.440 where you can create lies that are above your feet 0:19:32.600 --> 0:19:34.960 or you can stand up taller than where the ball is. 0:19:35.040 --> 0:19:38.000 Has there ever been a thought into putting a part 0:19:38.160 --> 0:19:40.480 I mean, I know it's not the largest range on 0:19:40.520 --> 0:19:42.480