1 00:00:15,436 --> 00:00:23,636 Speaker 1: Pushkin. Hey, I'm really excited about today's guest. About a 2 00:00:23,716 --> 00:00:25,996 Speaker 1: year ago we had the boss on and today we 3 00:00:26,076 --> 00:00:30,236 Speaker 1: have the ultimate underboss, Stevie Van zanne. His first big 4 00:00:30,276 --> 00:00:33,036 Speaker 1: break came in the mid seventies as Bruce Springsteen's right 5 00:00:33,076 --> 00:00:35,916 Speaker 1: hand man, guitarist and occasional co producer in the E 6 00:00:36,036 --> 00:00:39,796 Speaker 1: Street Band. Later, he seamlessly made the jump to acting 7 00:00:39,876 --> 00:00:45,516 Speaker 1: as one of Tony Soprano's key consiglieri's sill on The Sopranos. Recently, 8 00:00:45,596 --> 00:00:50,236 Speaker 1: van Zandt released his memoir Unrequited Infatuations, which details his 9 00:00:50,316 --> 00:00:53,516 Speaker 1: career over the past fifty years Delvin, of course in 10 00:00:53,596 --> 00:00:57,676 Speaker 1: the Street Band, but also in his endeavors as a producer, actor, 11 00:00:57,996 --> 00:01:02,276 Speaker 1: solo artist and activist, including his nineteen eighty five stand 12 00:01:02,276 --> 00:01:06,236 Speaker 1: against South Africa's oppressive regime when he created Artists United 13 00:01:06,276 --> 00:01:09,916 Speaker 1: Against apartheide and recorded the protest songs on City, which 14 00:01:09,916 --> 00:01:12,836 Speaker 1: includes cameos from a slew of artists like You Two, 15 00:01:13,116 --> 00:01:18,196 Speaker 1: Mellie mel Run DMC, and Miles Davis. On today's episode, 16 00:01:18,236 --> 00:01:20,676 Speaker 1: Bruce Headlam talks to Van Zant about the budding New 17 00:01:20,716 --> 00:01:23,316 Speaker 1: Jersey rock and roll scene in the sixties and what 18 00:01:23,356 --> 00:01:25,956 Speaker 1: it was like recording with legendary R and B singers 19 00:01:26,036 --> 00:01:30,076 Speaker 1: like Ronnie Spector and Darlene Love. He also reminisces about 20 00:01:30,116 --> 00:01:33,236 Speaker 1: first meeting Springsteen, who Van Zandt says he saw go 21 00:01:33,436 --> 00:01:35,516 Speaker 1: from a shy kid who was too timid to speak 22 00:01:35,756 --> 00:01:40,196 Speaker 1: to one of the greatest entertainers of our time. This 23 00:01:40,396 --> 00:01:43,396 Speaker 1: is broken round minor notes for the digital age. I'm 24 00:01:43,436 --> 00:01:49,236 Speaker 1: justin Richard. Here's Bruce Headlam with Stevie Van Zane. Well, 25 00:01:49,276 --> 00:01:51,316 Speaker 1: thank you, first of all so much for doing this 26 00:01:51,596 --> 00:01:58,076 Speaker 1: my pleasure. You're singer, songwriter, arranger, producer, award winning actor, 27 00:01:58,596 --> 00:02:00,716 Speaker 1: a creator of and I didn't realize this, the two 28 00:02:00,756 --> 00:02:04,876 Speaker 1: best channels on satellite radio. You also created an outlaw 29 00:02:04,916 --> 00:02:09,076 Speaker 1: country as well as Underground Garage, member of the Street Band, 30 00:02:09,236 --> 00:02:12,236 Speaker 1: and now you're an author. You're the author of a 31 00:02:12,316 --> 00:02:17,356 Speaker 1: new book, Unrequited Infatuations. And there's a lot of requited 32 00:02:17,636 --> 00:02:20,516 Speaker 1: infatuations in the book and some unrequited. We're going to 33 00:02:20,596 --> 00:02:23,716 Speaker 1: talk about them both because it's a theme that runs 34 00:02:23,756 --> 00:02:27,436 Speaker 1: through the book. And you call yourself a consigulary that 35 00:02:27,716 --> 00:02:30,436 Speaker 1: so many times in your life you seem to be 36 00:02:30,436 --> 00:02:35,116 Speaker 1: in this position of having to say something to somebody 37 00:02:35,196 --> 00:02:38,116 Speaker 1: that is so obviously in their self interest and they 38 00:02:38,196 --> 00:02:41,716 Speaker 1: can't quite see it. Were you always that kind of guy? 39 00:02:41,956 --> 00:02:46,236 Speaker 1: Were you always the guy that wasn't afraid to give advice? 40 00:02:47,076 --> 00:02:50,876 Speaker 1: It's certainly I feel part of the obligation of being 41 00:02:50,916 --> 00:02:54,876 Speaker 1: somebody's friend, you know, So it certainly starts there. But 42 00:02:55,036 --> 00:02:57,916 Speaker 1: as you suggest, I have done that with people who 43 00:02:57,996 --> 00:03:02,436 Speaker 1: are not friends. Yeah. And I didn't know this part 44 00:03:02,436 --> 00:03:04,556 Speaker 1: of my brain existed, and I talked about that in 45 00:03:04,556 --> 00:03:07,556 Speaker 1: the book. I mean, I went through the sixties not 46 00:03:07,716 --> 00:03:10,676 Speaker 1: a political thought in my head. Now could you imagine 47 00:03:10,716 --> 00:03:12,836 Speaker 1: such a thing? You know. There was a few things 48 00:03:12,836 --> 00:03:17,236 Speaker 1: going on in the sixties, you know, and I ignored 49 00:03:17,436 --> 00:03:20,316 Speaker 1: all of it. It didn't hit me till the eighties, 50 00:03:20,996 --> 00:03:23,836 Speaker 1: all right, which so I'm already what am I by then? 51 00:03:23,916 --> 00:03:29,156 Speaker 1: I'm in my thirties, And suddenly I just discovered this 52 00:03:29,236 --> 00:03:32,916 Speaker 1: other part of my brain that has the ability to 53 00:03:33,516 --> 00:03:41,316 Speaker 1: reason and and and see logical solutions to complicated problems, 54 00:03:41,636 --> 00:03:44,156 Speaker 1: which was a big surprise to me because I live 55 00:03:44,196 --> 00:03:48,716 Speaker 1: in chaos all the time and in my head, and 56 00:03:48,756 --> 00:03:51,756 Speaker 1: I think every artist does. I think that's partly why 57 00:03:51,796 --> 00:03:54,676 Speaker 1: an artist becomes an artist. I believe to try and 58 00:03:54,716 --> 00:03:58,676 Speaker 1: make some order out of the chaos. You know, something tangible, 59 00:03:58,796 --> 00:04:01,476 Speaker 1: you can see it, touch it, you know. That's so 60 00:04:02,276 --> 00:04:04,236 Speaker 1: that's such a relief, you know, when you walk around 61 00:04:04,276 --> 00:04:06,796 Speaker 1: with all this crazy shit in your head, to actually 62 00:04:06,836 --> 00:04:09,996 Speaker 1: be able to see your work and you that you exist, 63 00:04:10,116 --> 00:04:12,516 Speaker 1: you know, some proof of your existence. You know. So 64 00:04:12,636 --> 00:04:16,236 Speaker 1: I guess, to quote Hyman Roth or to misquote them, 65 00:04:16,316 --> 00:04:19,716 Speaker 1: this is not the business you chose, The business chose you. 66 00:04:20,076 --> 00:04:23,996 Speaker 1: This is this is a role you figured out for yourself. Yeah, 67 00:04:24,196 --> 00:04:26,596 Speaker 1: and and and you know, growing up in a renaissance 68 00:04:26,636 --> 00:04:28,796 Speaker 1: as I did, you really had to have a distinct 69 00:04:28,876 --> 00:04:33,196 Speaker 1: identity as an artist. And that would change come the seventies, 70 00:04:33,236 --> 00:04:35,956 Speaker 1: you know, the hybrids would begin. We no longer were 71 00:04:35,956 --> 00:04:38,796 Speaker 1: a mono culture, and we were very much a mono 72 00:04:38,876 --> 00:04:44,396 Speaker 1: culture in the sixties. Surprisingly or musically, um, I would say, 73 00:04:44,396 --> 00:04:47,556 Speaker 1: even artistically, you know, possibly you could make an argument 74 00:04:47,556 --> 00:04:49,356 Speaker 1: for that that we're you know, we all kind of 75 00:04:49,396 --> 00:04:53,116 Speaker 1: like the same art, you know, in a way. You 76 00:04:53,196 --> 00:04:55,356 Speaker 1: bring up a good point. I wanted to ask you. 77 00:04:55,796 --> 00:04:58,716 Speaker 1: So many musicians I've talked to talk about seeing the 78 00:04:58,716 --> 00:05:01,796 Speaker 1: Beatles for the first time on The Ed Sullivan Show, 79 00:05:02,196 --> 00:05:05,076 Speaker 1: but you had to take that I've never I've never 80 00:05:05,076 --> 00:05:07,436 Speaker 1: heard anybody else have. When you saw them, there was 81 00:05:07,476 --> 00:05:11,116 Speaker 1: something that you saw that you loved. Well, I don't 82 00:05:11,116 --> 00:05:14,036 Speaker 1: know how different it was from everybody else, but I saw, 83 00:05:14,916 --> 00:05:18,876 Speaker 1: you know, hope from my life, which had not been 84 00:05:18,996 --> 00:05:22,916 Speaker 1: very clear at that point. I just was rejecting everything 85 00:05:22,956 --> 00:05:26,956 Speaker 1: society was offering me as options, and suddenly it was 86 00:05:26,996 --> 00:05:32,636 Speaker 1: this really new world. You know, I've never seen a 87 00:05:32,676 --> 00:05:36,476 Speaker 1: band before. You didn't see four or five guys playing 88 00:05:36,476 --> 00:05:41,756 Speaker 1: and singing. I mean, you just didn't exist. Band is uh, 89 00:05:41,796 --> 00:05:45,596 Speaker 1: it's communicating. It's not it's not me, it's us. It's 90 00:05:45,636 --> 00:05:48,556 Speaker 1: the gang, it's the it's the posse, it's it's the family, 91 00:05:48,596 --> 00:05:53,796 Speaker 1: it's the it's friendship. And they do ultimately communicate community, 92 00:05:54,436 --> 00:05:57,156 Speaker 1: and that's what attracted me and I and I and 93 00:05:57,196 --> 00:06:00,156 Speaker 1: I always combined it with the Rolling Stones coming four 94 00:06:00,196 --> 00:06:04,556 Speaker 1: months later, because the Beatles were so good and so different. 95 00:06:05,676 --> 00:06:09,276 Speaker 1: You know, they just were perfect, perfect harmony. You know, everything, 96 00:06:09,276 --> 00:06:12,916 Speaker 1: the hair, the clothes, it was all new, all new, 97 00:06:13,236 --> 00:06:16,076 Speaker 1: and never see anything like it, but I'm sure it 98 00:06:16,156 --> 00:06:19,196 Speaker 1: was exciting. But then four months later, here comes the 99 00:06:19,276 --> 00:06:22,196 Speaker 1: Rolling Stones and they're dressing like whatever they feel like. 100 00:06:22,796 --> 00:06:25,956 Speaker 1: The hair is not perfect except for Brian Jones. Uh, 101 00:06:26,276 --> 00:06:29,076 Speaker 1: you know, there's no harmony to speak of. And they 102 00:06:29,116 --> 00:06:30,996 Speaker 1: make it look easier than it is, you know, they're 103 00:06:31,036 --> 00:06:34,916 Speaker 1: they're very casual about it. The most impressive thing to me, 104 00:06:34,956 --> 00:06:39,236 Speaker 1: and I think the biggest moment was seeing that Mick 105 00:06:39,316 --> 00:06:45,916 Speaker 1: Jagger did not smile. And this was another another epiphany, 106 00:06:46,036 --> 00:06:50,956 Speaker 1: you know, that that said, this isn't show business because 107 00:06:50,956 --> 00:06:54,636 Speaker 1: I wasn't interested in show business then. I like it now, 108 00:06:55,236 --> 00:06:57,876 Speaker 1: but I didn't back then. You know, you're building your 109 00:06:57,916 --> 00:07:02,276 Speaker 1: identity and you are what you like, you know, and 110 00:07:02,436 --> 00:07:06,036 Speaker 1: so the fact that he didn't smile said this is 111 00:07:06,156 --> 00:07:09,076 Speaker 1: not show business. This is uh, this is the lifestyle. 112 00:07:10,276 --> 00:07:12,196 Speaker 1: And I and I said, I want, I want, I 113 00:07:12,236 --> 00:07:15,956 Speaker 1: want that lifestyle. It's interesting. The Stones made it seem 114 00:07:16,036 --> 00:07:18,996 Speaker 1: like more of a possibility though. Yeah. They were really 115 00:07:18,996 --> 00:07:21,636 Speaker 1: the first punk band. They did exactly what the punks 116 00:07:21,636 --> 00:07:24,516 Speaker 1: did in the seventies, which was make it look easy. 117 00:07:25,276 --> 00:07:29,076 Speaker 1: Learned three chords and and and you know, make a record, yeah, 118 00:07:29,276 --> 00:07:32,796 Speaker 1: forget about all that. Yes, and Rush you know, and 119 00:07:33,716 --> 00:07:36,916 Speaker 1: Emerson Lake and Palmer stuff. You know, just play a 120 00:07:36,916 --> 00:07:39,516 Speaker 1: couple of chords and turn it up. You know. She 121 00:07:39,796 --> 00:07:41,636 Speaker 1: se that was the stuff I was exposed to when 122 00:07:41,636 --> 00:07:43,316 Speaker 1: I was a kid, and I never became a musician 123 00:07:43,356 --> 00:07:46,556 Speaker 1: because I thought that's too hard, and that was extremely 124 00:07:46,676 --> 00:07:49,676 Speaker 1: you know, evolved, sophisticated, you know, part of the business, 125 00:07:49,796 --> 00:07:53,636 Speaker 1: you know. But the Stones were, you know, they they 126 00:07:53,636 --> 00:07:56,876 Speaker 1: were missionaries for the blues and an early R and B. 127 00:07:57,676 --> 00:08:01,756 Speaker 1: And they're great accomplishment which nobody ever gives them credit for. 128 00:08:02,596 --> 00:08:05,356 Speaker 1: They were never a pop band, and the fact that 129 00:08:05,396 --> 00:08:07,596 Speaker 1: they crossed over to the pop charts, you know, for 130 00:08:07,756 --> 00:08:13,596 Speaker 1: fifty years, there's a rather remarkable achievement. Yeah. Was it 131 00:08:13,716 --> 00:08:18,236 Speaker 1: through those British artists than you learned more about American music? Yeah, 132 00:08:18,436 --> 00:08:20,716 Speaker 1: forget it. I never heard of Chuck Berry. I never 133 00:08:20,716 --> 00:08:23,836 Speaker 1: heard about the Muddy Waters. No, why why would I? 134 00:08:24,036 --> 00:08:26,916 Speaker 1: How would I? They weren't on a radio, not when 135 00:08:26,916 --> 00:08:28,916 Speaker 1: I was not when I was a teenager. All the 136 00:08:28,956 --> 00:08:33,516 Speaker 1: pioneers had come and gone blues. Well you never heard it. 137 00:08:33,636 --> 00:08:36,396 Speaker 1: Where would you hear blues? You know? So all that 138 00:08:36,436 --> 00:08:39,596 Speaker 1: stuff was brand new to me. We didn't know who 139 00:08:39,636 --> 00:08:42,356 Speaker 1: who was writing what. I didn't even think about that, 140 00:08:42,436 --> 00:08:46,436 Speaker 1: you know, until later, untill they till they started talking 141 00:08:46,476 --> 00:08:49,916 Speaker 1: about those guys, you know, and they were they were 142 00:08:50,396 --> 00:08:54,836 Speaker 1: putting their influences right on their sleeves, and and uh 143 00:08:54,916 --> 00:08:58,796 Speaker 1: and and really promoting those artists and and and thankfully 144 00:08:58,836 --> 00:09:02,876 Speaker 1: they did and uh we got a chance to learn 145 00:09:02,876 --> 00:09:05,836 Speaker 1: all about our own music. Then when did the band 146 00:09:05,996 --> 00:09:09,276 Speaker 1: start for you? When did you start playing in a band? Um? 147 00:09:09,396 --> 00:09:12,836 Speaker 1: I remember exactly because I started as a singer with 148 00:09:13,396 --> 00:09:18,156 Speaker 1: a neighbor's band called the Shadows. And I remember the 149 00:09:18,196 --> 00:09:19,836 Speaker 1: first thing I did on stage was singing like a 150 00:09:19,916 --> 00:09:24,156 Speaker 1: rolling stone. So it would have been sixty five, And 151 00:09:24,196 --> 00:09:27,276 Speaker 1: then I started learning to play a guitar and I 152 00:09:27,396 --> 00:09:30,756 Speaker 1: got pretty good. I think I started my own band 153 00:09:31,676 --> 00:09:36,916 Speaker 1: would have been maybe sixty six into sixty seven. I 154 00:09:36,956 --> 00:09:39,756 Speaker 1: started my band The Source, at which point I was, 155 00:09:41,036 --> 00:09:43,836 Speaker 1: you know, lead guitar and singer. But I started off 156 00:09:43,836 --> 00:09:47,316 Speaker 1: as just a singer. We hear now so much about 157 00:09:47,356 --> 00:09:50,556 Speaker 1: that Jersey scene and all the musicians that came out 158 00:09:50,596 --> 00:09:52,156 Speaker 1: of it. Can you tell me what was it like 159 00:09:52,636 --> 00:09:55,116 Speaker 1: when you started, when you were looking around for clubs 160 00:09:55,196 --> 00:10:00,956 Speaker 1: places to play. There's like three stages of the rock life. 161 00:10:01,516 --> 00:10:06,596 Speaker 1: You know. There's the teenage years, which is the most fun, 162 00:10:06,756 --> 00:10:11,596 Speaker 1: especially in those days because it was just being invented, 163 00:10:13,196 --> 00:10:17,716 Speaker 1: which meant The adults had no idea what you were 164 00:10:17,716 --> 00:10:21,996 Speaker 1: doing and would not think to try and tell you 165 00:10:22,036 --> 00:10:26,236 Speaker 1: what to do, So you had complete freedom, which was 166 00:10:26,276 --> 00:10:29,036 Speaker 1: a lot of fun and that and that lasted until 167 00:10:29,036 --> 00:10:31,756 Speaker 1: you got to the bar. The bar years, which is 168 00:10:31,756 --> 00:10:37,196 Speaker 1: a second stage, and that's a whole different story. They 169 00:10:37,276 --> 00:10:39,476 Speaker 1: told you exactly what to play. You had to play 170 00:10:39,556 --> 00:10:42,396 Speaker 1: top forty, and you had to look a certain way, 171 00:10:42,596 --> 00:10:47,156 Speaker 1: and there were these show bands that were all very popular. 172 00:10:47,556 --> 00:10:50,916 Speaker 1: You had to be extremely good at copying records and 173 00:10:51,876 --> 00:10:54,476 Speaker 1: make sure you did it exactly right before you got 174 00:10:54,476 --> 00:10:56,676 Speaker 1: to the bar scene. Were there like clubs that kids 175 00:10:56,676 --> 00:10:59,556 Speaker 1: could go to because the drinking age was still twenty 176 00:10:59,556 --> 00:11:01,836 Speaker 1: one in New Jersey back when you were doing it, 177 00:11:01,876 --> 00:11:03,476 Speaker 1: So was there a place like an eighteen year old 178 00:11:03,516 --> 00:11:05,596 Speaker 1: could go and hear a band? Well, it was better 179 00:11:05,596 --> 00:11:08,756 Speaker 1: than that. We had teenage nightclubs. You might have had 180 00:11:08,756 --> 00:11:13,956 Speaker 1: to be I don't know, well, Latin devous. I don't 181 00:11:13,996 --> 00:11:15,836 Speaker 1: know if there was a minimum age to get into 182 00:11:15,916 --> 00:11:19,956 Speaker 1: La teen Devous. Anyway, it was there were teenage clubs 183 00:11:20,156 --> 00:11:23,636 Speaker 1: and upstage in Asbury Park was up a little different 184 00:11:23,636 --> 00:11:25,276 Speaker 1: because it was open from eight o'clock at night till 185 00:11:25,316 --> 00:11:27,036 Speaker 1: five in the morning. So I think you had to 186 00:11:27,076 --> 00:11:29,036 Speaker 1: be You might have had to be sixteen to get 187 00:11:29,076 --> 00:11:32,716 Speaker 1: in that one. But there were clubs and all kinds 188 00:11:32,716 --> 00:11:35,476 Speaker 1: of places to play. We were we were working like 189 00:11:35,556 --> 00:11:39,036 Speaker 1: crazy all the time. I mean high school dances, the 190 00:11:39,156 --> 00:11:44,396 Speaker 1: VFW halls, the beach clubs. I mean Bruce used to 191 00:11:44,516 --> 00:11:49,476 Speaker 1: joke about these, you know. Uh, you know, if you 192 00:11:49,516 --> 00:11:51,956 Speaker 1: wanted if you wanted this new thing called rock and 193 00:11:52,036 --> 00:11:56,116 Speaker 1: hall in your club, you had to go to the kids, 194 00:11:57,676 --> 00:12:01,916 Speaker 1: you know, because the older bands that were the show 195 00:12:01,956 --> 00:12:06,636 Speaker 1: bands or the the wedding bands, they didn't get it yet. 196 00:12:07,316 --> 00:12:11,356 Speaker 1: They weren't they weren't playing this rock stuff yet. So 197 00:12:11,916 --> 00:12:13,636 Speaker 1: you know, if you want to hire a you know, 198 00:12:13,876 --> 00:12:16,956 Speaker 1: rock and roll band, you had to hire fifteen year 199 00:12:16,956 --> 00:12:19,676 Speaker 1: olds because they're the only one's doing it. It's a 200 00:12:19,876 --> 00:12:22,716 Speaker 1: fascinating thing to think about, you know. Can I ask 201 00:12:22,756 --> 00:12:25,836 Speaker 1: you just for a minute to talk about Ronnie Specter, 202 00:12:25,956 --> 00:12:29,356 Speaker 1: who was an important, really important person in your life, 203 00:12:29,356 --> 00:12:32,156 Speaker 1: and you are an important person in hers. Yeah, yeah, 204 00:12:32,276 --> 00:12:36,076 Speaker 1: we we um. Of course. You know, everybody had fallen 205 00:12:36,076 --> 00:12:40,396 Speaker 1: in love with with her voice, and and and in 206 00:12:40,436 --> 00:12:46,636 Speaker 1: that late sixteenth early seventies period really became reacquainted with 207 00:12:46,676 --> 00:12:49,636 Speaker 1: all that, all of those oldies, you know that we're 208 00:12:50,116 --> 00:12:53,396 Speaker 1: just you know, seventy seven years earlier or whatever. You know, 209 00:12:54,876 --> 00:12:58,156 Speaker 1: things were happening very quickly in those days. Uh so, 210 00:12:58,436 --> 00:13:00,516 Speaker 1: you know, become reacquainted with with all that, all of 211 00:13:00,556 --> 00:13:04,916 Speaker 1: that pioneer stuff, and just I fell in love with 212 00:13:04,956 --> 00:13:07,396 Speaker 1: the whole girl group thing. What was she like in 213 00:13:07,396 --> 00:13:09,836 Speaker 1: the studio? What was she like to be in that 214 00:13:09,916 --> 00:13:12,676 Speaker 1: studio with that voice? You're a little nervous because you 215 00:13:12,716 --> 00:13:14,476 Speaker 1: know it had been a while and she and she. 216 00:13:16,076 --> 00:13:19,996 Speaker 1: I mean the thing about every all the fifties and 217 00:13:20,076 --> 00:13:22,876 Speaker 1: sixties artists that I've worked with, and I worked with 218 00:13:22,956 --> 00:13:28,596 Speaker 1: quite a few, it's always a joy because they're just better. 219 00:13:29,396 --> 00:13:32,316 Speaker 1: You know, they're better because they had to be better. 220 00:13:33,036 --> 00:13:36,796 Speaker 1: You know, there's no auto tune in those days, and 221 00:13:36,836 --> 00:13:39,476 Speaker 1: it was not even that much editing. I mean, they 222 00:13:39,516 --> 00:13:42,076 Speaker 1: did a little bit, but you basically had to sing 223 00:13:42,116 --> 00:13:44,036 Speaker 1: a song from beginning to end and sing it in 224 00:13:44,076 --> 00:13:46,676 Speaker 1: tune and sing the right melody. You know, you know 225 00:13:46,716 --> 00:13:48,636 Speaker 1: what I mean. You had to be great. It was 226 00:13:48,676 --> 00:13:52,156 Speaker 1: just that was just the standard. All of those artists. 227 00:13:52,516 --> 00:13:54,276 Speaker 1: You know, when you work with them, it's like, oh 228 00:13:54,316 --> 00:13:58,076 Speaker 1: my god, what a joy. This is you know, can 229 00:13:58,116 --> 00:14:01,156 Speaker 1: you think of particular people who sort of surprised you 230 00:14:01,236 --> 00:14:03,916 Speaker 1: that way. It's always a surprise in a way because 231 00:14:04,476 --> 00:14:06,476 Speaker 1: you're not used to it. In her case, it was 232 00:14:06,556 --> 00:14:09,436 Speaker 1: a little bit shy about what she was doing. Me 233 00:14:09,516 --> 00:14:12,916 Speaker 1: and Bruce were like, something, something's not quite you know, right, 234 00:14:13,036 --> 00:14:15,956 Speaker 1: what is it? And we realized, well, she's not using 235 00:14:15,956 --> 00:14:20,476 Speaker 1: the vibrato like she used to, so we reminded her, 236 00:14:20,516 --> 00:14:23,036 Speaker 1: you know, you know this vibrato thing that he used 237 00:14:23,036 --> 00:14:26,356 Speaker 1: to do, you know, and then it kind of came 238 00:14:26,396 --> 00:14:29,276 Speaker 1: back to her, you know, oh yeah, yeah, yeah. But 239 00:14:29,396 --> 00:14:32,716 Speaker 1: the the other big surprise to me, I mean, I 240 00:14:32,716 --> 00:14:37,476 Speaker 1: mean was Gary was Bonds, who you know. Bruce said, 241 00:14:38,076 --> 00:14:41,196 Speaker 1: let's do a record with Gary Gary Bonds, And I 242 00:14:41,636 --> 00:14:43,996 Speaker 1: loved Gary's records and I had met him on the 243 00:14:44,116 --> 00:14:48,196 Speaker 1: on the oldies circuit. Just a great guy. But I 244 00:14:48,276 --> 00:14:50,396 Speaker 1: was like, you know, when you listen to Gary's records, 245 00:14:50,796 --> 00:14:53,796 Speaker 1: you know quarter to three and New Orleans, you know, 246 00:14:54,396 --> 00:14:59,116 Speaker 1: they literally like he invented the party, the party record. 247 00:14:59,316 --> 00:15:01,756 Speaker 1: They sound like a party. They sound like they recorded 248 00:15:01,796 --> 00:15:04,996 Speaker 1: in his garage. You know, He's just not the kind 249 00:15:05,036 --> 00:15:07,556 Speaker 1: of guy you would think, you know, of the great 250 00:15:07,676 --> 00:15:10,796 Speaker 1: voices of the Pioneer years. You just never would think 251 00:15:10,836 --> 00:15:13,716 Speaker 1: of Gary Bonds. I'm sorry, you know, And I said 252 00:15:13,796 --> 00:15:16,716 Speaker 1: to Bruce, I said, you know, Benny King's around, Chuck 253 00:15:16,796 --> 00:15:21,516 Speaker 1: Jackson's around, Wilson Pickets around. You know, at that point, 254 00:15:22,996 --> 00:15:26,396 Speaker 1: David Ruffin it was still around, you know, Smokey Robinson, 255 00:15:26,676 --> 00:15:30,116 Speaker 1: you know, you know, I think Curtis Mayfield was still around. 256 00:15:30,796 --> 00:15:32,716 Speaker 1: I mean I gave him a list of like fifty 257 00:15:32,756 --> 00:15:34,916 Speaker 1: of the most incredible singers in all of all time, 258 00:15:35,516 --> 00:15:37,436 Speaker 1: and he says, no, no, I want to work with Gary. 259 00:15:37,796 --> 00:15:40,516 Speaker 1: You know, I really like him, and so we get 260 00:15:40,556 --> 00:15:43,276 Speaker 1: in a studio with him, and a guy is just 261 00:15:43,556 --> 00:15:47,156 Speaker 1: one of the greatest soul singers of all time. And 262 00:15:47,276 --> 00:15:50,436 Speaker 1: I mean you would never know it from his records. 263 00:15:50,796 --> 00:15:52,516 Speaker 1: And I don't know how Bruce knew it. He went 264 00:15:52,516 --> 00:15:55,236 Speaker 1: and saw him live and maybe he got the indication 265 00:15:55,396 --> 00:15:59,556 Speaker 1: from from the live show. But he's great on the 266 00:15:59,596 --> 00:16:01,796 Speaker 1: album we did. Then we did a second album, which 267 00:16:01,876 --> 00:16:04,036 Speaker 1: nobody heard. You know, we had a hit single on 268 00:16:04,076 --> 00:16:08,356 Speaker 1: the first album which was incredible, So people heard that 269 00:16:08,396 --> 00:16:11,316 Speaker 1: first album, but most people never heard the second album, 270 00:16:11,356 --> 00:16:14,036 Speaker 1: which Bruce wrote the whole thing. You know, After all 271 00:16:14,116 --> 00:16:19,596 Speaker 1: knew Bruce Springstein songs and Gary is singing like you 272 00:16:19,636 --> 00:16:23,036 Speaker 1: cannot believe incredible. It's one of my favorite productions that 273 00:16:23,076 --> 00:16:26,276 Speaker 1: I've ever done. And I'm not even sure it's available. 274 00:16:26,316 --> 00:16:29,356 Speaker 1: I'm gonna see what's available these days. But anyway, Gary, 275 00:16:29,436 --> 00:16:31,916 Speaker 1: I think Gary was a was a big surprise to me. 276 00:16:32,396 --> 00:16:34,636 Speaker 1: And that wasn't the case with Ronnie, and that wasn't 277 00:16:34,676 --> 00:16:37,156 Speaker 1: the case with you know, Darlie Love. You know when 278 00:16:37,196 --> 00:16:40,836 Speaker 1: I when I finally produced Darlene Love, I mean I 279 00:16:40,916 --> 00:16:43,756 Speaker 1: knew she was the greatest singer in the world, and 280 00:16:44,196 --> 00:16:48,196 Speaker 1: and she was and is right now, you know, at 281 00:16:48,236 --> 00:16:51,116 Speaker 1: the age of eighty. We have to take a break, 282 00:16:51,236 --> 00:16:53,356 Speaker 1: but we'll be back with more of Bruce Adlam's conversation 283 00:16:53,436 --> 00:16:59,676 Speaker 1: with Stevie Van Zanne. We're back with more of Stevie 284 00:16:59,756 --> 00:17:02,516 Speaker 1: van Zan and Bruce Hadlam. Let's go back a bit 285 00:17:02,516 --> 00:17:05,836 Speaker 1: and talk about your relationship with Bruce Springsteen. When did 286 00:17:05,956 --> 00:17:10,156 Speaker 1: you guys first meet? We met on the circuit, you know, um, 287 00:17:10,516 --> 00:17:13,036 Speaker 1: the day before the Beatles played at Sullivan. There was 288 00:17:13,036 --> 00:17:16,556 Speaker 1: no bands in America. The day after everyone everyone had 289 00:17:16,596 --> 00:17:24,356 Speaker 1: a band and they most of mostly mercifully stayed in 290 00:17:24,356 --> 00:17:27,396 Speaker 1: the garage. But but but a dozen of us got 291 00:17:27,436 --> 00:17:29,636 Speaker 1: out and we all knew each other because it was 292 00:17:29,676 --> 00:17:34,236 Speaker 1: only literally a dozen bands if that in our area. 293 00:17:34,396 --> 00:17:37,916 Speaker 1: So we all knew each other. And then, um, I 294 00:17:37,916 --> 00:17:40,436 Speaker 1: started going to the village. Was about an hour on 295 00:17:40,516 --> 00:17:43,716 Speaker 1: the bus, but it was you know, exotic, you know, 296 00:17:43,756 --> 00:17:47,316 Speaker 1: it was it was unusual thing to do. I don't 297 00:17:47,356 --> 00:17:49,156 Speaker 1: even know what would have occurred to me to do that. 298 00:17:49,876 --> 00:17:52,996 Speaker 1: I never thought about this before, but anyway, I started 299 00:17:52,996 --> 00:17:56,636 Speaker 1: doing it and going to the cafe wa and and 300 00:17:56,636 --> 00:17:59,716 Speaker 1: and and you'd see bands all afternoon, and then I'd 301 00:17:59,716 --> 00:18:04,356 Speaker 1: come home Saturday night. Um and you would, you know, 302 00:18:04,476 --> 00:18:07,996 Speaker 1: see things that were a year ahead of where New 303 00:18:08,076 --> 00:18:10,956 Speaker 1: Jersey was, so I would, you know, steal what I 304 00:18:10,956 --> 00:18:12,756 Speaker 1: could steal and use it with my band, you know. 305 00:18:13,996 --> 00:18:17,036 Speaker 1: And I started running into Bruce doing the same thing. 306 00:18:18,196 --> 00:18:22,596 Speaker 1: You thinking about it now, it's pretty weird. You know, 307 00:18:23,196 --> 00:18:26,476 Speaker 1: We're not only going to the same part of town 308 00:18:27,036 --> 00:18:29,876 Speaker 1: in New York City, but we're going the same club. 309 00:18:30,356 --> 00:18:36,516 Speaker 1: There's dozens of clubs. So we got friendlier because of 310 00:18:36,556 --> 00:18:38,756 Speaker 1: that and started coming up to the city together. And 311 00:18:38,876 --> 00:18:42,716 Speaker 1: I go over to his house and he started playing 312 00:18:42,716 --> 00:18:45,716 Speaker 1: the songs he was writing. He was that far ahead, 313 00:18:45,756 --> 00:18:48,996 Speaker 1: he was he was writing even then. You describe him 314 00:18:49,036 --> 00:18:52,716 Speaker 1: as being very focused. Yeah, he was the most focused 315 00:18:52,756 --> 00:18:57,276 Speaker 1: guy ever. He just knew exactly where he was going. 316 00:18:57,436 --> 00:19:01,476 Speaker 1: He knew and nothing was gonna stop him, nothing because 317 00:19:02,476 --> 00:19:04,796 Speaker 1: there was no other There really was no plan B 318 00:19:05,876 --> 00:19:08,156 Speaker 1: for people like us. I mean I was a little 319 00:19:08,196 --> 00:19:11,196 Speaker 1: bit more, uh, you know, I was a little bit 320 00:19:11,276 --> 00:19:13,556 Speaker 1: more social than he was. You know, I took a 321 00:19:13,556 --> 00:19:18,556 Speaker 1: bunch of jobs. You wears construction. He never did that. Yeah, yeah, no, no, 322 00:19:18,676 --> 00:19:20,596 Speaker 1: I don't. I don't know if he ever had any 323 00:19:20,596 --> 00:19:23,716 Speaker 1: other job. He managed to somehow make a living playing 324 00:19:23,796 --> 00:19:25,996 Speaker 1: rock and roll from the very beginning, and let me 325 00:19:26,076 --> 00:19:29,476 Speaker 1: tell you, it wasn't easy. He just was very very 326 00:19:29,516 --> 00:19:32,556 Speaker 1: focused on it because I think, like me, it was 327 00:19:32,796 --> 00:19:38,756 Speaker 1: it was this incredible gift of a new world where 328 00:19:38,796 --> 00:19:42,796 Speaker 1: we finally could imagine fitting in. Because as freaky as 329 00:19:42,796 --> 00:19:46,356 Speaker 1: I was, he was even freakier. I was a little 330 00:19:46,356 --> 00:19:49,436 Speaker 1: bit more social. He didn't say two words, you know. 331 00:19:49,516 --> 00:19:53,956 Speaker 1: I mean, if you picture the grunge guys with hair 332 00:19:54,116 --> 00:19:59,036 Speaker 1: down to their knees and just staring down playing and 333 00:19:59,036 --> 00:20:03,636 Speaker 1: and and not saying a word, that's him and h 334 00:20:04,956 --> 00:20:09,436 Speaker 1: watching this very very shy guy turn into the world's 335 00:20:09,436 --> 00:20:14,316 Speaker 1: greatest entertainer was quite a front row seat to a 336 00:20:14,356 --> 00:20:18,156 Speaker 1: remarkable transformation. You had this beautiful quote, which I think 337 00:20:18,156 --> 00:20:21,596 Speaker 1: people who've seen him will of course recognize, which is 338 00:20:21,796 --> 00:20:25,476 Speaker 1: you said in concert he wanted to provide irrefutable proof 339 00:20:25,916 --> 00:20:29,836 Speaker 1: that life had meaning. Yeah. Is that a quality you 340 00:20:29,836 --> 00:20:31,996 Speaker 1: saw from the beginning in him or is that something 341 00:20:32,036 --> 00:20:36,076 Speaker 1: he developed over time? Well? Yeah, but but it was 342 00:20:36,916 --> 00:20:41,476 Speaker 1: rock and roll was giving us life. So we're passing 343 00:20:41,476 --> 00:20:45,356 Speaker 1: it along, you know, we're passing the life force that 344 00:20:45,356 --> 00:20:50,356 Speaker 1: that is and was passing it through us, you know, 345 00:20:51,476 --> 00:20:55,636 Speaker 1: in an exchange of energy with audiences. You know, when 346 00:20:55,876 --> 00:21:01,676 Speaker 1: when when he became conscious, which was the darkness era, 347 00:21:02,676 --> 00:21:07,756 Speaker 1: you know, suddenly everything changed. He found his identity, he 348 00:21:07,956 --> 00:21:10,516 Speaker 1: found an identity for what he was going to be 349 00:21:10,556 --> 00:21:16,156 Speaker 1: as a performer, and Ash and the and the show 350 00:21:16,916 --> 00:21:19,956 Speaker 1: from that moment on. You know, it's very different through 351 00:21:19,996 --> 00:21:23,676 Speaker 1: Born to Run. It's just an entirely different identity, an 352 00:21:23,796 --> 00:21:28,156 Speaker 1: entirely different justification for existence. You know, at that point, 353 00:21:28,676 --> 00:21:31,196 Speaker 1: it became very conscious we are going to do a 354 00:21:31,236 --> 00:21:37,276 Speaker 1: show with substance. Basically, substance became a thing. You know. No, 355 00:21:37,676 --> 00:21:40,836 Speaker 1: this is fascinating to me because I'll bet you, every 356 00:21:40,876 --> 00:21:44,156 Speaker 1: Springsteen fan down to the last one thinks of his 357 00:21:44,236 --> 00:21:48,036 Speaker 1: career in terms of the first two albums, and then 358 00:21:48,796 --> 00:21:52,676 Speaker 1: he emerges with Born to Run. But you believe that 359 00:21:52,796 --> 00:21:57,116 Speaker 1: Darkness was really his first fully realized album. Why why 360 00:21:57,116 --> 00:22:01,556 Speaker 1: do you feel that way? Yeah, the fans and even journalists, 361 00:22:02,196 --> 00:22:04,676 Speaker 1: they're not wrong as far as the Born to Rue 362 00:22:04,796 --> 00:22:08,996 Speaker 1: being sort of a birth of the moment when people 363 00:22:09,156 --> 00:22:15,276 Speaker 1: discovered him. But what was fascinating to me, and something 364 00:22:15,316 --> 00:22:18,636 Speaker 1: I didn't really think about until I wrote the book, Well, 365 00:22:18,716 --> 00:22:22,236 Speaker 1: you know, when you finally get discovered by the world, 366 00:22:22,836 --> 00:22:26,676 Speaker 1: it's a miracle and you better embrace it with both arms, 367 00:22:26,676 --> 00:22:31,796 Speaker 1: you know. So in this case, he there's a whole 368 00:22:32,596 --> 00:22:36,636 Speaker 1: transformation of himself from those first two albums to becoming 369 00:22:36,676 --> 00:22:39,676 Speaker 1: this front guy. You know, that's why I joined the band, 370 00:22:41,076 --> 00:22:46,516 Speaker 1: and the whole identity change at that point to this 371 00:22:46,676 --> 00:22:53,596 Speaker 1: character that you know inhabits the entire Born to Run album. 372 00:22:53,636 --> 00:22:57,196 Speaker 1: And it wasn't the big hit people think it was, 373 00:22:57,236 --> 00:23:01,476 Speaker 1: but it but it certainly was substantial. And what's fascinating 374 00:23:01,596 --> 00:23:05,436 Speaker 1: is instead of embracing it with both arms and being thankful, 375 00:23:06,156 --> 00:23:11,556 Speaker 1: he realized somewhere here somewhere in the in the touring 376 00:23:11,556 --> 00:23:15,316 Speaker 1: of Born to Run, or into the writing of Darkness 377 00:23:15,396 --> 00:23:17,076 Speaker 1: on the Edge of the Town. Somewhere in that period 378 00:23:18,116 --> 00:23:22,316 Speaker 1: he just realized that wasn't going to be him. He 379 00:23:22,436 --> 00:23:26,236 Speaker 1: just wasn't that guy, and he wasn't going to be 380 00:23:26,276 --> 00:23:30,996 Speaker 1: that guy the rest of his life. So it was like, sorry, folks, 381 00:23:31,916 --> 00:23:33,836 Speaker 1: I know I asked you to fall in love with me, 382 00:23:35,676 --> 00:23:40,716 Speaker 1: and you did, and I really appreciate that. But I'm 383 00:23:40,756 --> 00:23:45,796 Speaker 1: gonna go one hundred and eighty degrees here and revealed 384 00:23:45,796 --> 00:23:48,996 Speaker 1: to you that I'm actually a whole different guy. And 385 00:23:49,076 --> 00:23:54,236 Speaker 1: it was a very courageous thing to do, and hours 386 00:23:54,236 --> 00:23:57,476 Speaker 1: and hours of discussion that he had with John Landau, 387 00:23:58,716 --> 00:24:03,516 Speaker 1: I think confirmed that the guy that we're running at. 388 00:24:04,236 --> 00:24:08,036 Speaker 1: It was the line, we're leaving his town. It's a 389 00:24:08,036 --> 00:24:11,236 Speaker 1: town full of losers, so we're getting out of here 390 00:24:11,356 --> 00:24:14,276 Speaker 1: to win, right. I do love that you're asking me 391 00:24:14,396 --> 00:24:18,916 Speaker 1: the lyric I think you've probably heard you may have 392 00:24:18,996 --> 00:24:21,396 Speaker 1: heard it a couple of times more than me. But 393 00:24:21,516 --> 00:24:24,636 Speaker 1: that but that that thing, that identity of you know, 394 00:24:25,636 --> 00:24:29,476 Speaker 1: grab the chick out of the you know, from the 395 00:24:29,676 --> 00:24:33,396 Speaker 1: tough town, put the chick on the motorcycle, and ride 396 00:24:33,436 --> 00:24:36,476 Speaker 1: out of town into the into the sunset and you know, 397 00:24:36,676 --> 00:24:42,676 Speaker 1: let's let's go to another world thing, which was extremely 398 00:24:42,916 --> 00:24:47,036 Speaker 1: attractive and then wonderful. It's a Chuck Berry had the word, 399 00:24:47,036 --> 00:24:52,116 Speaker 1: it's he's motivating and by the way, and in that 400 00:24:52,836 --> 00:24:58,956 Speaker 1: this generation gap of really a tough relationship with his 401 00:24:58,996 --> 00:25:04,276 Speaker 1: father as part of that whole thing, very adversarial. That 402 00:25:04,356 --> 00:25:10,156 Speaker 1: was the vibe. Well boom, he says on dar I'm 403 00:25:10,196 --> 00:25:15,756 Speaker 1: not leaving. I'm staying. And not only that, I'm gonna 404 00:25:16,076 --> 00:25:20,116 Speaker 1: defend my father and I might become my father, you 405 00:25:20,156 --> 00:25:23,916 Speaker 1: know in some ways. You know, I'm gonna I'm gonna 406 00:25:23,956 --> 00:25:28,356 Speaker 1: accept the fact that I'm I'm his son and all 407 00:25:28,356 --> 00:25:30,996 Speaker 1: that goes with it, which means we're gonna make this 408 00:25:31,036 --> 00:25:35,196 Speaker 1: work from where I am. We're not running away. We're 409 00:25:35,196 --> 00:25:41,156 Speaker 1: gonna stay and fight huge difference. And he had the 410 00:25:41,236 --> 00:25:46,596 Speaker 1: talent and the balls and you know, the band to 411 00:25:46,796 --> 00:25:50,356 Speaker 1: back it up and pull that off and and take 412 00:25:50,356 --> 00:25:53,436 Speaker 1: the audience with him, you know, which not not not 413 00:25:53,476 --> 00:25:56,316 Speaker 1: a given man, not a given. You know, they might 414 00:25:56,316 --> 00:25:58,316 Speaker 1: have loved they might have liked that other guy too much. 415 00:25:58,636 --> 00:26:01,676 Speaker 1: You know, they liked that guy on the motorcycle. You 416 00:26:01,716 --> 00:26:05,396 Speaker 1: know what I mean, all of a sudden, here's a guy. Uh, 417 00:26:05,436 --> 00:26:07,956 Speaker 1: I was gonna work in the factory. And you know 418 00:26:07,996 --> 00:26:11,236 Speaker 1: though you know all that, and uh, it was a big, 419 00:26:11,476 --> 00:26:14,196 Speaker 1: big difference. But he had something else, which is he 420 00:26:14,276 --> 00:26:18,916 Speaker 1: had you, and you know you came in. There's a 421 00:26:19,036 --> 00:26:22,756 Speaker 1: very I think it's a very telling scene. I think 422 00:26:22,756 --> 00:26:25,276 Speaker 1: you're talking about tenth Avenue freeze out. I might be 423 00:26:25,356 --> 00:26:28,756 Speaker 1: wrong because you didn't like the horns. Yeah, and and 424 00:26:28,756 --> 00:26:31,116 Speaker 1: and he says we'll do something about it with a 425 00:26:31,116 --> 00:26:35,316 Speaker 1: few expletives, and you say, you know, he says it loudly, 426 00:26:35,876 --> 00:26:40,516 Speaker 1: so everybody pretending to be the boss, and I pretend 427 00:26:40,596 --> 00:26:43,716 Speaker 1: to do it, so everybody thinks he's the boss. And 428 00:26:43,756 --> 00:26:47,836 Speaker 1: it's just very it's this very interesting little play you 429 00:26:47,876 --> 00:26:50,556 Speaker 1: guys were doing. Yeah, it was, you know. At first 430 00:26:50,596 --> 00:26:53,196 Speaker 1: he started calling himself the boss in Adsbury Park and 431 00:26:53,236 --> 00:26:54,756 Speaker 1: it was kind of a joke, you know, because kind 432 00:26:54,756 --> 00:26:57,996 Speaker 1: of a play on Frank Sinatra, you know, right. And 433 00:26:58,036 --> 00:27:01,876 Speaker 1: I was very strong locally. I was very very strong 434 00:27:01,996 --> 00:27:05,396 Speaker 1: boss in my own world, very strong, as strong as 435 00:27:05,476 --> 00:27:09,316 Speaker 1: as he was. Some would say stronger in some ways, 436 00:27:10,156 --> 00:27:12,916 Speaker 1: you know. But I saw something in him that was 437 00:27:12,956 --> 00:27:15,516 Speaker 1: special and I and I thought, you know, I could 438 00:27:15,516 --> 00:27:20,676 Speaker 1: see my gifts complimenting his gifts. You know. So when 439 00:27:20,716 --> 00:27:24,396 Speaker 1: I joined his band, people were shocked. And when I 440 00:27:24,436 --> 00:27:27,636 Speaker 1: started calling him the boss, uh, suddenly it became a 441 00:27:27,676 --> 00:27:31,076 Speaker 1: little bit different because here's a boss calling him the boss. 442 00:27:31,556 --> 00:27:34,276 Speaker 1: You know. So it wasn't just some affectation. It wasn't 443 00:27:34,316 --> 00:27:38,036 Speaker 1: some kind of joke anymore. He's a serious guy who 444 00:27:38,116 --> 00:27:40,716 Speaker 1: was saying, no, no, I'm not the boss. He's the boss. 445 00:27:41,556 --> 00:27:45,036 Speaker 1: You know. Did you like being a boss when you're 446 00:27:45,076 --> 00:27:48,716 Speaker 1: the boss? Yes? And no. You know, I I do 447 00:27:48,876 --> 00:27:54,156 Speaker 1: like being in control to a large extent, But I don't. 448 00:27:54,636 --> 00:27:57,996 Speaker 1: I don't need the spotlight. I don't. I don't crave it. 449 00:27:58,196 --> 00:28:00,956 Speaker 1: You know, I don't really like it. You know, I can, 450 00:28:01,036 --> 00:28:03,596 Speaker 1: I can tolerate it. You know when I got quite 451 00:28:03,636 --> 00:28:05,676 Speaker 1: good at it, you know, in the eighties, I really 452 00:28:05,676 --> 00:28:10,276 Speaker 1: became quite a good front man. But um, I don't 453 00:28:10,316 --> 00:28:11,836 Speaker 1: like it. I don't. I don't. I don't. I don't 454 00:28:11,876 --> 00:28:15,676 Speaker 1: like being in a spotlight. I really don't. I recognize 455 00:28:15,916 --> 00:28:18,596 Speaker 1: you know, a lot of a lot of good goals 456 00:28:18,596 --> 00:28:21,596 Speaker 1: with that. You Oh, like I got a constelia or 457 00:28:21,596 --> 00:28:24,436 Speaker 1: anunder boss or a producer. I mean, if I had 458 00:28:24,436 --> 00:28:28,916 Speaker 1: to identify myself, I would identify myself as a writer, producer. 459 00:28:29,076 --> 00:28:32,476 Speaker 1: You know. That's what counts to me, is the creativity. 460 00:28:33,156 --> 00:28:37,516 Speaker 1: I mean, it's fun, you know, it's fun being a 461 00:28:37,596 --> 00:28:40,556 Speaker 1: rock star, you know, and it's fun being an actor. 462 00:28:41,796 --> 00:28:45,436 Speaker 1: But that's not how I That's not my uh most 463 00:28:45,436 --> 00:28:49,756 Speaker 1: satisfying part of my being. You know, that's that's sort 464 00:28:49,756 --> 00:28:53,356 Speaker 1: of the vacation, that's the that's the reward, you know, 465 00:28:53,396 --> 00:28:55,476 Speaker 1: you know what I mean, that's that's the fun part. 466 00:28:56,036 --> 00:28:57,756 Speaker 1: But again, in this I guess if I had to 467 00:28:57,756 --> 00:29:00,436 Speaker 1: sum it up, I'm sure Bruce Springsteen had a lot 468 00:29:00,516 --> 00:29:04,436 Speaker 1: of people telling him what he wanted to hear. You're great, 469 00:29:04,476 --> 00:29:07,596 Speaker 1: You're this, You're that. You seem to be the one 470 00:29:07,636 --> 00:29:09,716 Speaker 1: that can tell him what he needs needed to hear. 471 00:29:11,036 --> 00:29:14,156 Speaker 1: You don't want this arrangement. Nebraska is not an album 472 00:29:14,196 --> 00:29:16,556 Speaker 1: for the band. But that's a tough position to be 473 00:29:16,596 --> 00:29:18,716 Speaker 1: in because you know, he can start to resent you 474 00:29:18,796 --> 00:29:22,196 Speaker 1: if you're right too often. He can be like, uh, yeah, 475 00:29:22,236 --> 00:29:24,276 Speaker 1: I'm a little sick of you being right. Well, the 476 00:29:24,396 --> 00:29:26,516 Speaker 1: three fights we've had I put in a book in 477 00:29:26,556 --> 00:29:30,916 Speaker 1: great detail because of that, exactly what you're saying. You know, 478 00:29:31,996 --> 00:29:35,276 Speaker 1: nobody wants to really hear it, you know, But as 479 00:29:35,316 --> 00:29:37,316 Speaker 1: I said, I felt it was an obligation as a 480 00:29:37,356 --> 00:29:41,436 Speaker 1: friend to do that. And what am I getting from it? 481 00:29:42,196 --> 00:29:46,516 Speaker 1: Nothing but kicked out of the house, kicked out of 482 00:29:46,596 --> 00:29:50,036 Speaker 1: a band, you know, well, and you you did, You 483 00:29:50,076 --> 00:29:52,876 Speaker 1: did say at eighty three, you just you felt he 484 00:29:52,916 --> 00:29:56,676 Speaker 1: had stopped listening, and so you left the band. That 485 00:29:56,756 --> 00:29:58,996 Speaker 1: was the occasion when I left. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I left. 486 00:29:58,996 --> 00:30:02,316 Speaker 1: I left. I left myself at that point, and it 487 00:30:02,396 --> 00:30:04,596 Speaker 1: was it was hard. You you said, you felt like 488 00:30:04,596 --> 00:30:06,996 Speaker 1: you were being written out of history, even though it 489 00:30:06,996 --> 00:30:10,236 Speaker 1: was your own choice. Yeah, it was. It was a 490 00:30:10,356 --> 00:30:15,236 Speaker 1: kind of a spontaneous move that I felt compelled to 491 00:30:15,276 --> 00:30:19,556 Speaker 1: do at the time. I'm not sure I really weighed 492 00:30:19,556 --> 00:30:24,476 Speaker 1: the consequences of it. I just felt like, you know, 493 00:30:24,636 --> 00:30:27,276 Speaker 1: I need to leave in order to preserve the friendship. 494 00:30:27,636 --> 00:30:30,676 Speaker 1: The friendship was more important to me at that moment 495 00:30:30,676 --> 00:30:35,076 Speaker 1: than my own career, so to speak, because I never really, 496 00:30:35,316 --> 00:30:37,636 Speaker 1: I never really separated any of these things. I don't 497 00:30:37,636 --> 00:30:42,236 Speaker 1: separate career from the art, you know what I mean, 498 00:30:42,356 --> 00:30:45,996 Speaker 1: from the friendship, from the band. I mean, it's all 499 00:30:46,276 --> 00:30:49,956 Speaker 1: it's all one thing, you know. I didn't quite realize 500 00:30:49,956 --> 00:30:53,116 Speaker 1: that at that moment until it hit me on a 501 00:30:53,156 --> 00:30:58,996 Speaker 1: plane flight to South Africa that I didn't just change jobs, 502 00:30:59,236 --> 00:31:03,236 Speaker 1: I just ended my life and I would become a 503 00:31:03,276 --> 00:31:07,996 Speaker 1: different person at that moment. I would become fearless in 504 00:31:08,036 --> 00:31:11,876 Speaker 1: a way, which I think helped me in my research 505 00:31:12,156 --> 00:31:14,516 Speaker 1: for South Africa and made me go a little bit 506 00:31:14,556 --> 00:31:17,876 Speaker 1: deeper than I probably would have normally, because I didn't 507 00:31:17,876 --> 00:31:20,516 Speaker 1: care whether I lived or died. So when you when 508 00:31:20,556 --> 00:31:24,916 Speaker 1: you stopped caring about living, it has a funny liberating 509 00:31:24,916 --> 00:31:28,316 Speaker 1: effect on you. Sorry, was that related to you leaving 510 00:31:28,356 --> 00:31:30,436 Speaker 1: the band? You stopped caring what you lived or died? 511 00:31:30,556 --> 00:31:32,316 Speaker 1: Or did you just feel you're in a moral I 512 00:31:32,396 --> 00:31:37,436 Speaker 1: realized I worked for fifteen years to get to that point. 513 00:31:37,756 --> 00:31:41,156 Speaker 1: We just start making money, We just got We just successful, 514 00:31:41,916 --> 00:31:44,476 Speaker 1: you know for two years at that point. In a 515 00:31:44,596 --> 00:31:47,556 Speaker 1: River was the first success I produced, most of Born 516 00:31:47,596 --> 00:31:54,116 Speaker 1: in the USA in eighty two. And I leave, So 517 00:31:54,156 --> 00:31:56,196 Speaker 1: we had only been successful for a year or two 518 00:31:56,756 --> 00:32:01,036 Speaker 1: after fifteen years of work, and I walked away. And 519 00:32:01,156 --> 00:32:03,636 Speaker 1: now what you can start all over again, which is yes, 520 00:32:04,156 --> 00:32:06,276 Speaker 1: that's what I had to do. I start all over 521 00:32:06,316 --> 00:32:10,716 Speaker 1: again and never never, never even approached the level of 522 00:32:10,756 --> 00:32:14,956 Speaker 1: success that I walked away from We'll be back after 523 00:32:14,996 --> 00:32:21,476 Speaker 1: a quick break with more from Stevie Van Zanne. We're 524 00:32:21,516 --> 00:32:24,236 Speaker 1: back with the rest of Bruce Hellum's conversation with Stevie 525 00:32:24,316 --> 00:32:28,756 Speaker 1: Van Zan. You started doing your own albums, and I 526 00:32:28,796 --> 00:32:31,596 Speaker 1: want to ask a bit about those. I want to 527 00:32:31,596 --> 00:32:34,156 Speaker 1: ask about the song Checkpoint Charlie. Can you tell me 528 00:32:34,196 --> 00:32:36,876 Speaker 1: a bit about that writing? Yeah, that was you know, 529 00:32:37,036 --> 00:32:41,556 Speaker 1: I had Each album was had a theme, and that 530 00:32:41,636 --> 00:32:44,756 Speaker 1: particular album, the second album of Voice of America, the 531 00:32:44,756 --> 00:32:48,836 Speaker 1: theme was how the government affects families and that was 532 00:32:48,876 --> 00:32:53,676 Speaker 1: the ultimate perfect metaphor. What was the Berlin Wall? You know, literally, 533 00:32:53,956 --> 00:32:57,876 Speaker 1: you know, politics separating families. Me and Bruce had gone 534 00:32:57,956 --> 00:33:02,476 Speaker 1: through Checkpoint Charlie into East Berlin, and man was a 535 00:33:02,556 --> 00:33:08,116 Speaker 1: scary I mean, it was the twilight zone for real. Well, 536 00:33:08,156 --> 00:33:11,036 Speaker 1: I don't think we stayed too long, hour or two maybe, 537 00:33:11,076 --> 00:33:14,276 Speaker 1: but uh, and I wrote a song about it, you know, 538 00:33:14,476 --> 00:33:19,436 Speaker 1: which was we're punishing these people for their father's crimes 539 00:33:19,876 --> 00:33:23,676 Speaker 1: and all that. It was a perfect metaphor. Can you 540 00:33:23,716 --> 00:33:26,836 Speaker 1: talk a bit about another really memorable song on those albums, 541 00:33:26,836 --> 00:33:30,516 Speaker 1: which is Saint Valentine's Day. Yeah, that's one of my favorites. 542 00:33:30,556 --> 00:33:34,316 Speaker 1: That's a recent recent song. I was gonna work with 543 00:33:34,436 --> 00:33:37,596 Speaker 1: Nancy Sinatra and I wrote this song for her and 544 00:33:37,876 --> 00:33:40,236 Speaker 1: and uh, I still hope to do it with her. 545 00:33:40,436 --> 00:33:44,316 Speaker 1: I don't. I'm not sure what went wrong at the time, 546 00:33:45,076 --> 00:33:48,676 Speaker 1: but I ended up doing with the cocktail Slippers and 547 00:33:48,676 --> 00:33:51,836 Speaker 1: and then it became the song in David Chase's first 548 00:33:51,876 --> 00:33:55,796 Speaker 1: movie that his fictitious band was writing. And then I 549 00:33:55,836 --> 00:33:59,476 Speaker 1: just did it on my last tour on the Soulfire album. 550 00:33:59,556 --> 00:34:01,756 Speaker 1: We should talk a bit about sun City and how 551 00:34:01,796 --> 00:34:05,396 Speaker 1: you brought people together. One thing I had forgotten was 552 00:34:05,436 --> 00:34:09,956 Speaker 1: that it was it was a year before run DMC 553 00:34:10,156 --> 00:34:11,836 Speaker 1: did Walk This Way. It was kind of the first 554 00:34:11,916 --> 00:34:15,676 Speaker 1: metal rap song. Yeah, not metal but but but rock 555 00:34:15,916 --> 00:34:18,796 Speaker 1: rock rock rap. Yeah. It was a very big issue 556 00:34:18,876 --> 00:34:22,396 Speaker 1: at the time because, you know, me and Danny first 557 00:34:22,396 --> 00:34:24,796 Speaker 1: started talking. I said, I want to put this new 558 00:34:24,836 --> 00:34:27,636 Speaker 1: thing called rap on the record, and he was totally 559 00:34:27,676 --> 00:34:30,116 Speaker 1: into it. It was one of those things that I 560 00:34:30,276 --> 00:34:32,996 Speaker 1: had I had been very very aware of black artists 561 00:34:32,996 --> 00:34:37,396 Speaker 1: not being able to express themselves as opposed to white artists. 562 00:34:38,156 --> 00:34:41,076 Speaker 1: We were expected to express ourselves. That was part of 563 00:34:41,076 --> 00:34:45,236 Speaker 1: a part of being an artist. But h Marvin Gay 564 00:34:45,276 --> 00:34:48,476 Speaker 1: had a you know, fight with Barry Gordy and uh, 565 00:34:48,556 --> 00:34:50,316 Speaker 1: you know, and then Stevie Wonder had a you know 566 00:34:51,276 --> 00:34:55,076 Speaker 1: kind of fight for his freedom, and Sly and family Stone, 567 00:34:55,116 --> 00:34:57,516 Speaker 1: you know, got into a little bit. But it was 568 00:34:58,236 --> 00:35:02,076 Speaker 1: it was unusual, and it was not encouraged, and I thought, well, 569 00:35:02,276 --> 00:35:06,156 Speaker 1: this rap thing, this is interesting, man. This is the 570 00:35:06,196 --> 00:35:09,596 Speaker 1: first time that you know, I'm here in black artists 571 00:35:09,956 --> 00:35:13,916 Speaker 1: expressed themselves and I want to encourage it. And so, 572 00:35:14,116 --> 00:35:16,956 Speaker 1: uh well, I mean, the whole, the whole, the whole 573 00:35:16,996 --> 00:35:20,876 Speaker 1: Sun City album is basically Arthur Baker's phone book, you know. 574 00:35:22,116 --> 00:35:24,556 Speaker 1: And I always, you know, I always make sure I 575 00:35:24,556 --> 00:35:27,796 Speaker 1: mentioned all four of us because it literally was all 576 00:35:27,836 --> 00:35:30,476 Speaker 1: four of us doing it. I mean, without Danny Scheckter, 577 00:35:30,556 --> 00:35:33,796 Speaker 1: nobody would have ever heard of it. Arthur Baker, it's his, 578 00:35:33,996 --> 00:35:38,276 Speaker 1: it's his phone book on the record, and Hart Perry, 579 00:35:38,876 --> 00:35:41,276 Speaker 1: if he hadn't videotaped it, nobody would have ever heard 580 00:35:41,316 --> 00:35:43,316 Speaker 1: of it because it wasn't a big hit on the charts, right, 581 00:35:43,316 --> 00:35:45,876 Speaker 1: it was a big hit on TV. Radio wouldn't play it. 582 00:35:46,236 --> 00:35:48,156 Speaker 1: Radio said it was too black for white radio, and 583 00:35:48,156 --> 00:35:51,276 Speaker 1: two white for black radio. Was I. I had a 584 00:35:51,276 --> 00:35:54,316 Speaker 1: big meeting with MTV because they were having big problems 585 00:35:54,356 --> 00:35:56,756 Speaker 1: at the time. They weren't playing any black artists, you know, 586 00:35:57,676 --> 00:35:59,956 Speaker 1: and I said, well, here's a here's a solution to that. 587 00:36:00,596 --> 00:36:03,716 Speaker 1: You know, we got more black artists in his video 588 00:36:04,316 --> 00:36:06,836 Speaker 1: He'll take care of your whole quota for the year. 589 00:36:07,116 --> 00:36:13,956 Speaker 1: Ye and b Et of course also played it extensively 590 00:36:14,316 --> 00:36:17,676 Speaker 1: in a Black Entertainment but but that was it radio. 591 00:36:17,676 --> 00:36:19,956 Speaker 1: I wouldn't't play it. You sort of say how the 592 00:36:20,076 --> 00:36:23,156 Speaker 1: nineties were lost to you a little bit, but then 593 00:36:23,796 --> 00:36:26,716 Speaker 1: you did a lot of stop during the nineties, which 594 00:36:26,756 --> 00:36:30,436 Speaker 1: I was reminded of writing the book, because you're like, huh, 595 00:36:30,556 --> 00:36:33,436 Speaker 1: so it's a blank spot in my head. Really, you're 596 00:36:33,476 --> 00:36:36,076 Speaker 1: doing these projects you're doing. You did You're Born Against 597 00:36:36,076 --> 00:36:39,116 Speaker 1: Savage album, you put together a Demolition twenty three, you 598 00:36:39,156 --> 00:36:42,756 Speaker 1: did the Darling Love album, and there's this there's this refrain, 599 00:36:42,836 --> 00:36:45,676 Speaker 1: and you actually mentioned it earlier in the conversation. You 600 00:36:45,676 --> 00:36:48,436 Speaker 1: would talk about how this is some of your best work, 601 00:36:49,116 --> 00:36:52,556 Speaker 1: and then the section would always end with nobody heard 602 00:36:52,556 --> 00:36:59,436 Speaker 1: it for business reasons, for whatever popularity reason. You just 603 00:36:59,516 --> 00:37:02,596 Speaker 1: had this feeling that no one was hearing you in 604 00:37:02,636 --> 00:37:06,236 Speaker 1: a way. What was that like, Well, it was frustrating. 605 00:37:06,436 --> 00:37:09,156 Speaker 1: You know, it was a little frustrating. You know. I 606 00:37:09,236 --> 00:37:13,876 Speaker 1: attribute that to not having a manager. And uh, you know, 607 00:37:14,636 --> 00:37:19,276 Speaker 1: the creative process is two things. You know, it's the 608 00:37:19,396 --> 00:37:23,076 Speaker 1: content and it's the marketing of that content, and they're 609 00:37:23,156 --> 00:37:25,356 Speaker 1: kind of not two different things, they're kind of two 610 00:37:25,356 --> 00:37:28,516 Speaker 1: halves of the same thing. And you can create all 611 00:37:28,596 --> 00:37:30,796 Speaker 1: day long, and I don't know, you know, but you 612 00:37:30,876 --> 00:37:33,036 Speaker 1: got to have somebody out there selling it. It's a 613 00:37:33,076 --> 00:37:36,996 Speaker 1: big It was a big, a big flaw, you know, 614 00:37:37,076 --> 00:37:40,796 Speaker 1: in my life, and and I just, uh I tried, 615 00:37:40,956 --> 00:37:43,876 Speaker 1: I tried. I tried to find find somebody, and uh, 616 00:37:45,076 --> 00:37:48,556 Speaker 1: it just it just never worked out. So I ended 617 00:37:48,636 --> 00:37:50,956 Speaker 1: up doing a lot of good work. I think that 618 00:37:50,956 --> 00:37:55,996 Speaker 1: that nobody heard. You had a conversation with Bruce Springsteen 619 00:37:56,036 --> 00:37:58,156 Speaker 1: at one point because you were going to play at 620 00:37:58,156 --> 00:38:01,396 Speaker 1: a festival. You hadn't headlined for a while, and you 621 00:38:01,476 --> 00:38:04,556 Speaker 1: lost your voice, and he said something to me that 622 00:38:04,596 --> 00:38:07,596 Speaker 1: I thought was kind of fascinating. You said, well, you 623 00:38:07,596 --> 00:38:11,556 Speaker 1: can tell he's been in Freudian an analysis time. Do 624 00:38:11,596 --> 00:38:14,076 Speaker 1: you remember what he said to you. I had not 625 00:38:14,356 --> 00:38:19,156 Speaker 1: sung or performed my own music for thirty years at 626 00:38:19,196 --> 00:38:24,036 Speaker 1: that point, so I'm re experiencing them for the first time, 627 00:38:24,556 --> 00:38:27,916 Speaker 1: and I couldn't get through a lot of the songs 628 00:38:28,156 --> 00:38:33,036 Speaker 1: without crying. And when you cry, you your voice tightens up. 629 00:38:33,276 --> 00:38:35,876 Speaker 1: And it was just an odd phenomenon that I had 630 00:38:35,876 --> 00:38:39,916 Speaker 1: never experienced before because you realize that you didn't have 631 00:38:39,956 --> 00:38:42,996 Speaker 1: the buffer, you know, the buffer of you know, doing 632 00:38:43,036 --> 00:38:46,716 Speaker 1: things over and over, you know, the repetition and the redundancy, 633 00:38:46,356 --> 00:38:52,556 Speaker 1: and and you put away the that raw emotion that 634 00:38:52,636 --> 00:38:55,316 Speaker 1: creates the song. You get a little distance from it. 635 00:38:56,556 --> 00:39:01,356 Speaker 1: And what happened was suddenly I was I'm thinking about 636 00:39:01,396 --> 00:39:04,476 Speaker 1: the words that I'm that I'm singing, and feeling that 637 00:39:04,476 --> 00:39:08,716 Speaker 1: that interaction with those chord changes and the melodies, and 638 00:39:10,356 --> 00:39:14,836 Speaker 1: it was just pure emotion, you know, in that in 639 00:39:14,876 --> 00:39:17,756 Speaker 1: a way that you don't usually experience it because you 640 00:39:17,836 --> 00:39:20,956 Speaker 1: have that little little bit of distance from doing it. 641 00:39:21,836 --> 00:39:25,476 Speaker 1: And yeah, Bruce and Bruce had a had a psycholo 642 00:39:25,876 --> 00:39:30,436 Speaker 1: a psychoanalytical thing on it, which was yeah, which by 643 00:39:30,516 --> 00:39:34,116 Speaker 1: what he said, or was it koop be trow coopy 644 00:39:34,196 --> 00:39:36,756 Speaker 1: trow You know. Yeah, you run one of the only 645 00:39:36,836 --> 00:39:40,196 Speaker 1: channels that a breaks new bands and b plays new 646 00:39:40,316 --> 00:39:43,156 Speaker 1: music by older artists, So you seem to be the 647 00:39:43,196 --> 00:39:46,956 Speaker 1: person who might know this. What is next for rock music, 648 00:39:47,316 --> 00:39:50,316 Speaker 1: the music you love? H I don't know, it's it's 649 00:39:50,356 --> 00:39:52,956 Speaker 1: it's uh. I've been spent I spent the last twenty 650 00:39:53,036 --> 00:39:56,556 Speaker 1: years trying to rebuild an infrastructure for it which has gone. 651 00:39:57,436 --> 00:40:01,156 Speaker 1: We now have returned to being the cult where we started, 652 00:40:01,636 --> 00:40:05,556 Speaker 1: you know, we returned to nineteen fifty five. So the 653 00:40:05,956 --> 00:40:08,756 Speaker 1: job right now, I think it is for us to 654 00:40:08,796 --> 00:40:13,396 Speaker 1: try rebuild an infrastructure that can can at least create 655 00:40:13,476 --> 00:40:16,436 Speaker 1: a healthy cult it. We're never going to be mainstream again. 656 00:40:17,196 --> 00:40:21,396 Speaker 1: That was a blip in a radar, an anomaly in history, 657 00:40:21,796 --> 00:40:26,236 Speaker 1: that thirty year period where rock ruled. We probably belong 658 00:40:26,756 --> 00:40:30,476 Speaker 1: in a cult, the truth is, but let's we're trying 659 00:40:30,476 --> 00:40:32,196 Speaker 1: to make it a healthy cult where people can make 660 00:40:32,236 --> 00:40:35,076 Speaker 1: a living doing it. And that's been that's been a challenge. 661 00:40:35,556 --> 00:40:40,476 Speaker 1: And what's next for your music? I don't know, you know, 662 00:40:40,596 --> 00:40:43,916 Speaker 1: every record could be the last. I write with purpose, 663 00:40:43,996 --> 00:40:46,596 Speaker 1: so I don't, I don't, I don't, you know, write 664 00:40:46,756 --> 00:40:49,916 Speaker 1: all day long. I write when I have a reason 665 00:40:49,996 --> 00:40:55,196 Speaker 1: to write, and you know that usually involves a record, 666 00:40:55,236 --> 00:40:58,196 Speaker 1: and it usually involves a tour, unless it's something for 667 00:40:58,396 --> 00:41:01,556 Speaker 1: a movie, you know, which is possible, you know, but 668 00:41:02,036 --> 00:41:05,956 Speaker 1: it was very difficult touring these last two tours seventeen 669 00:41:05,996 --> 00:41:10,756 Speaker 1: eighteen and nineteen the busiest I've ever been. Six album packages, 670 00:41:11,036 --> 00:41:14,196 Speaker 1: two new albums Soul Fire and Summer of Sorcery, and 671 00:41:14,356 --> 00:41:17,756 Speaker 1: two world tours. But it was very difficult taking around 672 00:41:18,996 --> 00:41:23,196 Speaker 1: fifteen piece band and you know, thirty five person touring 673 00:41:23,236 --> 00:41:28,436 Speaker 1: party with you know, I'm sure that's the only time 674 00:41:28,436 --> 00:41:32,836 Speaker 1: that's ever happened with an artist with no hits. You 675 00:41:33,036 --> 00:41:35,476 Speaker 1: you're the only guy who writes a book to unwind. Yeah, 676 00:41:36,116 --> 00:41:39,116 Speaker 1: thank you so much for talking. It's been just fabulous 677 00:41:39,156 --> 00:41:41,916 Speaker 1: talking to you, and it's great reading your book. Thank you, 678 00:41:41,956 --> 00:41:46,756 Speaker 1: my friend. Good talking to you. Thank you to Stevie 679 00:41:46,836 --> 00:41:48,796 Speaker 1: van Zant for taking us through his history as an 680 00:41:48,876 --> 00:41:53,076 Speaker 1: artist and sharing insight into his new memoir, Unrequited Infatuations. 681 00:41:53,676 --> 00:41:55,236 Speaker 1: You can check out a playlist with all of our 682 00:41:55,236 --> 00:41:58,716 Speaker 1: favorite Stevie songs at Broken Record podcast dot com, and 683 00:41:58,796 --> 00:42:01,276 Speaker 1: be sure to subscribe to our YouTube channel at YouTube 684 00:42:01,276 --> 00:42:04,156 Speaker 1: dot com slash broken Record Podcast, where we can find 685 00:42:04,236 --> 00:42:07,236 Speaker 1: all of our new episodes. Broken Record is produced it 686 00:42:07,316 --> 00:42:11,836 Speaker 1: helpful Leah Rose, Benalida, Eric Sandler, and Jennifer Sanchez with 687 00:42:11,956 --> 00:42:15,876 Speaker 1: engineering help from Nick Chaffee. Our executive producer is Mio Lobell. 688 00:42:16,596 --> 00:42:19,756 Speaker 1: Broken Record is a production of Pushkin Industries. If you 689 00:42:19,796 --> 00:42:22,636 Speaker 1: love this show and others and Pushkin, consider subscribing to 690 00:42:22,716 --> 00:42:26,756 Speaker 1: Pushkin Plus. Pushkin Plus is a podcast subscription that offers 691 00:42:26,796 --> 00:42:30,196 Speaker 1: bonus content an unasrupted ad free listening for four ninety 692 00:42:30,236 --> 00:42:33,716 Speaker 1: nine a month. Look for Pushkin Plus on Apple podcast subscriptions, 693 00:42:34,116 --> 00:42:35,796 Speaker 1: and please remember to share, rate, and re view us 694 00:42:35,836 --> 00:42:38,556 Speaker 1: on your podcast app. If you like us. Our musics 695 00:42:38,556 --> 00:42:40,436 Speaker 1: by Kenny Beats. I'm justin Richmond.