1 00:00:07,120 --> 00:00:10,720 Speaker 1: Welcome to Creature Future production of iHeartRadio. I'm you're a 2 00:00:10,760 --> 00:00:14,120 Speaker 1: host of many parasites, Katie Golden. I studied psychology and 3 00:00:14,160 --> 00:00:17,800 Speaker 1: evolutionary biology, and today on the show, we are answering 4 00:00:17,960 --> 00:00:21,520 Speaker 1: some listener questions, and by we, I mean me and 5 00:00:21,640 --> 00:00:25,159 Speaker 1: all of my parasites. Uh, Guys, you send to me 6 00:00:25,400 --> 00:00:30,440 Speaker 1: your wonderful questions and I try my best to answer them. 7 00:00:30,560 --> 00:00:34,520 Speaker 1: If you have a question and you're thinking, wait a minute, 8 00:00:34,600 --> 00:00:37,159 Speaker 1: I want my question answered, why don't I get my 9 00:00:37,320 --> 00:00:40,760 Speaker 1: question answered? Well, listen, it's easy. You send me an 10 00:00:40,760 --> 00:00:45,479 Speaker 1: email at Creature Feature Pod at gmail dot com, and 11 00:00:45,560 --> 00:00:48,319 Speaker 1: I answer as many of them as I possibly can, 12 00:00:48,440 --> 00:00:52,239 Speaker 1: which is often all of them. And so yeah, just 13 00:00:52,320 --> 00:00:55,240 Speaker 1: send me your questions, and thank you to everyone who 14 00:00:55,360 --> 00:00:58,040 Speaker 1: has sent me questions. I'm going to answer some of 15 00:00:58,080 --> 00:01:01,840 Speaker 1: them today. So here we go, Hi, Katie. I read 16 00:01:01,880 --> 00:01:04,720 Speaker 1: somewhere that tigers have white spots on their ears to 17 00:01:04,959 --> 00:01:08,919 Speaker 1: act as eye spots to frighten predators. Is that true? 18 00:01:09,480 --> 00:01:13,279 Speaker 1: And if so, what preyed on tigers in the past. Also, 19 00:01:13,520 --> 00:01:17,240 Speaker 1: I just saw the spotless giraffe and it is super 20 00:01:17,280 --> 00:01:20,920 Speaker 1: cute and got me thinking, what color would a stripeless zebra? 21 00:01:21,000 --> 00:01:24,280 Speaker 1: Be all white, are all black? I love your show 22 00:01:24,319 --> 00:01:28,080 Speaker 1: and I have been listening two past episodes from Taylor. Hi, Taylor, 23 00:01:28,120 --> 00:01:30,800 Speaker 1: thank you so much. I really appreciate your question and 24 00:01:30,840 --> 00:01:33,119 Speaker 1: for listening to the show. Yeah, this is a great 25 00:01:33,680 --> 00:01:37,000 Speaker 1: This is an excellent question. So the eye spots on 26 00:01:37,120 --> 00:01:40,840 Speaker 1: tiger ears, I don't necessarily want to call them eye 27 00:01:40,840 --> 00:01:44,200 Speaker 1: spots because they may not necessarily be that. They certainly 28 00:01:44,200 --> 00:01:49,680 Speaker 1: look that way because they have a contrasting black and white, 29 00:01:49,960 --> 00:01:52,680 Speaker 1: So they do kind of appear to be similar to 30 00:01:52,760 --> 00:01:56,559 Speaker 1: eye spots. But what are they for? They may serve 31 00:01:56,840 --> 00:02:02,000 Speaker 1: several functions. One hypothesis is that it is a clear 32 00:02:02,240 --> 00:02:06,680 Speaker 1: signal that makes it easier for conspecifics, which means members 33 00:02:06,760 --> 00:02:11,640 Speaker 1: of their own species, which means other tigers to identify 34 00:02:11,680 --> 00:02:14,880 Speaker 1: each other. It could be useful for cubs to follow 35 00:02:14,960 --> 00:02:18,919 Speaker 1: their mother, or to for adults to find a mate. 36 00:02:19,440 --> 00:02:24,000 Speaker 1: Another non mutually exclusive theory is that it is used 37 00:02:24,040 --> 00:02:28,560 Speaker 1: to threaten rivals, which would be other tigers. I really 38 00:02:28,639 --> 00:02:34,480 Speaker 1: find the positive signaling theory a bit more compelling, you know, 39 00:02:34,760 --> 00:02:39,960 Speaker 1: or perhaps some kind of protection for tiger cubs. I 40 00:02:40,000 --> 00:02:44,120 Speaker 1: don't think the adults necessarily need to use them for protection. 41 00:02:44,400 --> 00:02:47,440 Speaker 1: And if it's something where it is to intimidate rivals, 42 00:02:47,440 --> 00:02:51,320 Speaker 1: it would be a little odd given that if tigers 43 00:02:51,400 --> 00:02:54,760 Speaker 1: are used to being around conspecifics, it would seem like 44 00:02:54,800 --> 00:02:59,080 Speaker 1: that signal would not necessarily scare off other tigers. But 45 00:02:59,280 --> 00:03:03,839 Speaker 1: perhaps early in their evolution there were genes for icepot contrast, 46 00:03:03,960 --> 00:03:07,919 Speaker 1: which was indeed used for defensive signaling, but as they 47 00:03:07,960 --> 00:03:13,320 Speaker 1: became larger, it was used more for communication with members 48 00:03:13,360 --> 00:03:17,680 Speaker 1: of their own species. So onto the question about a 49 00:03:17,880 --> 00:03:23,720 Speaker 1: stripeless zebra. So a stripeless zebra, in my opinion, it 50 00:03:23,760 --> 00:03:28,720 Speaker 1: would most likely be black or brown. But saying a 51 00:03:28,800 --> 00:03:33,760 Speaker 1: stripeless zebra, let's dig into that a bit so zebras, 52 00:03:33,840 --> 00:03:38,640 Speaker 1: in addition to having black skin, also has these black 53 00:03:38,960 --> 00:03:42,520 Speaker 1: furry stripes. But they also have these white furry stripes. 54 00:03:42,800 --> 00:03:47,800 Speaker 1: So it seems that on average, mutations and zebras that 55 00:03:47,880 --> 00:03:51,400 Speaker 1: alter their stripes usually caused them to lose white fur 56 00:03:51,600 --> 00:03:56,480 Speaker 1: and default to being melanistic. The exception would be an 57 00:03:56,520 --> 00:04:02,400 Speaker 1: albino or lucistic zebra. So there have been zebras documented 58 00:04:02,480 --> 00:04:07,960 Speaker 1: with a color mutation that turned its white stripes into spots. 59 00:04:07,960 --> 00:04:10,000 Speaker 1: It's very cute. If you look up spot at zebra, 60 00:04:10,080 --> 00:04:13,640 Speaker 1: you can probably see an image of it. The real answer, though, 61 00:04:13,680 --> 00:04:16,359 Speaker 1: in terms of being stripeless, is that stripes on a 62 00:04:16,440 --> 00:04:21,159 Speaker 1: zebra aren't so much painting on a blank canvas, but 63 00:04:21,440 --> 00:04:26,640 Speaker 1: rather a complex diffusion of melanocytes and other pigment creating 64 00:04:26,680 --> 00:04:30,560 Speaker 1: cells that occur during zebra's evolutionary history. So the extinct 65 00:04:30,680 --> 00:04:35,640 Speaker 1: zebra cousin, the quaga, shows a more complex picture of 66 00:04:35,680 --> 00:04:39,640 Speaker 1: how zebra coloration may have come about. So the quaga 67 00:04:39,680 --> 00:04:44,040 Speaker 1: has brown, white, and black coloration. The stripes appear to 68 00:04:44,120 --> 00:04:47,599 Speaker 1: be white given that brown is the predominant color, but 69 00:04:47,680 --> 00:04:51,560 Speaker 1: it also has a white belly. So really what we're 70 00:04:51,600 --> 00:04:55,080 Speaker 1: seeing in terms of zebras or the quaga is the 71 00:04:55,200 --> 00:04:59,800 Speaker 1: distribution of pigment producing cells. So is a zebra white 72 00:04:59,800 --> 00:05:02,680 Speaker 1: with black stripes or black with white stripes? I would 73 00:05:02,680 --> 00:05:08,120 Speaker 1: say it's neither or both. Let's actually look in to 74 00:05:08,560 --> 00:05:12,160 Speaker 1: how stripes and spots and other patterns form as an 75 00:05:12,160 --> 00:05:18,000 Speaker 1: animal develops. So obviously this is a result of genetics 76 00:05:18,000 --> 00:05:22,080 Speaker 1: and evolution. There may be selective pressures put upon animals 77 00:05:22,120 --> 00:05:27,760 Speaker 1: to form these patterns, either as defense or camouflage, or 78 00:05:27,760 --> 00:05:31,560 Speaker 1: in the case of zebra, potentially disruptive coloration. There's a 79 00:05:31,560 --> 00:05:34,960 Speaker 1: couple things that the stripes may help out with. One 80 00:05:35,560 --> 00:05:37,640 Speaker 1: is that it makes it difficult for a predator to 81 00:05:37,760 --> 00:05:42,080 Speaker 1: pick out an individual zebra and to understand which direction 82 00:05:42,160 --> 00:05:44,600 Speaker 1: the zebras are running in. And also it may make 83 00:05:44,640 --> 00:05:48,440 Speaker 1: it more difficult for a mosquito to land on a zebra. 84 00:05:48,600 --> 00:05:52,800 Speaker 1: The disruptive stripe coloration confuses mosquitoes and other bugs, and 85 00:05:52,839 --> 00:05:56,160 Speaker 1: so that may protect the zebra both from large predators 86 00:05:56,160 --> 00:06:02,160 Speaker 1: and tiny predators. So how do these patterns get printed 87 00:06:02,160 --> 00:06:05,960 Speaker 1: out on animals? Right? Like? You have your zebra stripes, 88 00:06:05,960 --> 00:06:08,880 Speaker 1: you have your spotted giraffs, you have fish that have 89 00:06:08,920 --> 00:06:13,880 Speaker 1: stripes and spots. How do these patterns come out? Right? Like? 90 00:06:14,040 --> 00:06:18,279 Speaker 1: Obviously nobody's going in with a paintbrush to give these 91 00:06:18,320 --> 00:06:21,720 Speaker 1: animals their patterns. So there's actually some really interesting and 92 00:06:21,839 --> 00:06:26,279 Speaker 1: complex physics and math at play here. So Alan Turing, 93 00:06:26,560 --> 00:06:30,479 Speaker 1: the famous computer scientist, came up with a diffusion theory 94 00:06:30,520 --> 00:06:33,520 Speaker 1: when it comes to animal skin patterns. The idea is 95 00:06:33,560 --> 00:06:38,080 Speaker 1: that pigment cells would diffuse like die diffuses through water 96 00:06:38,640 --> 00:06:42,680 Speaker 1: throughout the tissues of the animal as it is developing. 97 00:06:43,040 --> 00:06:46,440 Speaker 1: The problem with the diffusion model is that it generally 98 00:06:46,480 --> 00:06:50,440 Speaker 1: would result in fuzzy patterns, not the sharp crisp patterns 99 00:06:50,640 --> 00:06:57,599 Speaker 1: we see from zebras to zebra fish. So currently biological 100 00:06:58,080 --> 00:07:03,080 Speaker 1: engineers are looking into this. So researchers Benjamin Alessio and 101 00:07:03,400 --> 00:07:08,120 Speaker 1: Akurgupta at the University of Colorado, Boulder have tested a 102 00:07:08,200 --> 00:07:14,080 Speaker 1: model of pigment distribution called diffusiophoresis the movement of molecules 103 00:07:14,120 --> 00:07:18,920 Speaker 1: through different mediums, which can result in patterns with crisp edges. 104 00:07:19,520 --> 00:07:23,160 Speaker 1: If you've ever tried to do suminagashi or paper marbling, 105 00:07:23,320 --> 00:07:26,160 Speaker 1: you know that you can let ink float on water 106 00:07:26,720 --> 00:07:32,640 Speaker 1: and then use alternating brushes of ink and surfactant something 107 00:07:32,680 --> 00:07:36,600 Speaker 1: that decreases water tension like soap, and you create these 108 00:07:36,720 --> 00:07:39,920 Speaker 1: rings of ink on the surface of the water, and 109 00:07:39,960 --> 00:07:42,360 Speaker 1: then you can dip your paper or fabric in it 110 00:07:42,400 --> 00:07:46,960 Speaker 1: and then get this beautiful pattern. Of course, biological development 111 00:07:47,040 --> 00:07:50,680 Speaker 1: does not use this kind of technique to get those patterns, 112 00:07:51,160 --> 00:07:54,680 Speaker 1: but the interesting idea that is similar is that there 113 00:07:54,720 --> 00:08:00,760 Speaker 1: may be different chemical concentrations that the pigment cells are 114 00:08:00,800 --> 00:08:04,600 Speaker 1: moving through, meaning that it is interfering with the movement 115 00:08:04,640 --> 00:08:07,720 Speaker 1: and diffusion of these pigment cells, which could result in 116 00:08:07,760 --> 00:08:13,600 Speaker 1: these crisp lines. So researchers think that certain chemical agents 117 00:08:13,720 --> 00:08:19,400 Speaker 1: present during development diffuse through tissues, polling melanocytes or chromatic 118 00:08:19,560 --> 00:08:23,280 Speaker 1: fes or other pigment producing cells with it. So the 119 00:08:23,360 --> 00:08:27,880 Speaker 1: patterns then would be formed by differing concentrations of chemical 120 00:08:27,960 --> 00:08:32,080 Speaker 1: agents that either poll or reject the diffusion of pigment cells. 121 00:08:32,760 --> 00:08:35,520 Speaker 1: So if you've ever tried to clean a couch or 122 00:08:35,520 --> 00:08:39,280 Speaker 1: a chair or some kind of upholstery and accidentally formed 123 00:08:39,600 --> 00:08:43,679 Speaker 1: a ring of dirt on it while trying to clean it, 124 00:08:43,760 --> 00:08:49,720 Speaker 1: you are basically doing a version of diffusiophoresis. So this 125 00:08:49,800 --> 00:08:53,280 Speaker 1: is a theory that has been tested in mathematical models. 126 00:08:54,320 --> 00:08:58,760 Speaker 1: It's yet to be completely proven as the way in 127 00:08:58,800 --> 00:09:01,760 Speaker 1: which animals get their stripes in their spots, but I 128 00:09:01,800 --> 00:09:05,840 Speaker 1: think it is really interesting and really promising. Follow up 129 00:09:06,000 --> 00:09:16,559 Speaker 1: to Alan Turing's original theory, onto the next listener question. 130 00:09:17,160 --> 00:09:21,040 Speaker 1: A question posed on the Internet was how would Mike Wilkowski, 131 00:09:21,200 --> 00:09:26,120 Speaker 1: that little green cyclops monster from Monsters, Inc. How would 132 00:09:26,160 --> 00:09:29,960 Speaker 1: Michael Kowski cry two streams of tears on either side 133 00:09:30,080 --> 00:09:33,760 Speaker 1: or one in the middle bottom. Of course, in media 134 00:09:33,800 --> 00:09:36,720 Speaker 1: shorthand animators would likely do the two streams. Is that 135 00:09:36,760 --> 00:09:39,480 Speaker 1: would be the least distracting from the emotions of the scene. 136 00:09:39,800 --> 00:09:42,520 Speaker 1: But tear ducks on the side seem insufficient for an 137 00:09:42,520 --> 00:09:44,480 Speaker 1: eyeball that big, and while I can come up with 138 00:09:44,600 --> 00:09:48,200 Speaker 1: multiple plausible methods of keeping that eye hydrated, nature is 139 00:09:48,240 --> 00:09:51,640 Speaker 1: often weirder than fiction. But the only things from nature 140 00:09:51,640 --> 00:09:54,000 Speaker 1: I could find were geckos who licked their eyes or 141 00:09:54,040 --> 00:09:56,520 Speaker 1: creatures who have eyes that don't need to be hydrated 142 00:09:56,520 --> 00:09:59,920 Speaker 1: and cleaned. So are there other animals with weird methods 143 00:10:00,120 --> 00:10:05,200 Speaker 1: lubricating eyeballs? So ah, this is from Tegreja, Thank you 144 00:10:05,280 --> 00:10:08,680 Speaker 1: so much. I love this question. So I hardly realize 145 00:10:08,720 --> 00:10:11,520 Speaker 1: that Michael Kowski has one eye because every time I 146 00:10:11,559 --> 00:10:14,720 Speaker 1: see him his face is covered by a logo. But anyways, 147 00:10:14,840 --> 00:10:19,120 Speaker 1: cyclops animals are actually really rare, so having two eyes 148 00:10:19,240 --> 00:10:22,920 Speaker 1: is a huge advantage. You have this bilateral symmetry. It's 149 00:10:22,960 --> 00:10:26,560 Speaker 1: really useful in depth perception and navigation and having a 150 00:10:26,600 --> 00:10:30,840 Speaker 1: wide range of visions. So the cyclops is not a 151 00:10:31,200 --> 00:10:34,560 Speaker 1: super advantageous design, and so we don't see it very often, 152 00:10:34,640 --> 00:10:37,959 Speaker 1: but there are a few cyclopses. When you get really tiny, 153 00:10:38,360 --> 00:10:42,280 Speaker 1: there are cyclops copapods who have a single median eye 154 00:10:42,720 --> 00:10:46,840 Speaker 1: in the middle of their heads. Copapods are tiny teeny 155 00:10:46,880 --> 00:10:52,880 Speaker 1: teenyeniuenie crustaceans and members of these Cyclops copapod genus are 156 00:10:52,920 --> 00:10:55,320 Speaker 1: about the size of a grain of rice or smaller. 157 00:10:56,160 --> 00:10:58,719 Speaker 1: If you've ever seen a silverfish, which is one of 158 00:10:58,760 --> 00:11:01,760 Speaker 1: my least favorite insects, Actually they kind of look like that, 159 00:11:02,000 --> 00:11:06,520 Speaker 1: but really tiny and microscopic. In terms of tear ducts, 160 00:11:06,600 --> 00:11:09,360 Speaker 1: it doesn't seem that they have any. The eye spot 161 00:11:09,400 --> 00:11:12,040 Speaker 1: is extremely simple and they are aquatics, so there's not 162 00:11:12,120 --> 00:11:15,000 Speaker 1: much need for a tear duct. So while some aquatic 163 00:11:15,040 --> 00:11:18,800 Speaker 1: animals have tear ducts and cry, like crocodiles and sea turtles, 164 00:11:18,960 --> 00:11:22,000 Speaker 1: by the way, sea turtles cry out excess salt to 165 00:11:22,200 --> 00:11:25,200 Speaker 1: protect their kidneys, so their crying is not necessarily out 166 00:11:25,240 --> 00:11:31,600 Speaker 1: of emotion or cleaning their eye, but to expunge excess salt. Anyways. 167 00:11:31,880 --> 00:11:36,280 Speaker 1: Cetaceans also have oily glands that protect their eyes, but 168 00:11:36,559 --> 00:11:40,640 Speaker 1: fish and many other species that live in the ocean 169 00:11:40,920 --> 00:11:44,000 Speaker 1: or in bodies of water do not need tears, as 170 00:11:44,040 --> 00:11:46,760 Speaker 1: their eyes are well adapted to salt water or fresh water, 171 00:11:46,920 --> 00:11:50,520 Speaker 1: and they do not need extra moisture or lubrication. But 172 00:11:50,640 --> 00:11:54,319 Speaker 1: most terrestrial animals have to come up with a way 173 00:11:54,400 --> 00:11:58,960 Speaker 1: to keep their eyes moist and clean. So how do 174 00:11:59,080 --> 00:12:02,000 Speaker 1: various land animals cope with the dryness of air? And 175 00:12:02,160 --> 00:12:06,440 Speaker 1: what do I think a terrestrial cyclops like Mike Wakowski 176 00:12:06,520 --> 00:12:10,560 Speaker 1: would do. Well. There's a lot of things that we 177 00:12:10,679 --> 00:12:14,200 Speaker 1: see in terms of eye protection, like eyelids, eyelashes, and 178 00:12:14,280 --> 00:12:18,960 Speaker 1: tear ducts of course that help protect eyes from irritants, 179 00:12:19,400 --> 00:12:23,600 Speaker 1: but some species have different solutions. So, like you mentioned 180 00:12:23,640 --> 00:12:28,600 Speaker 1: to greyha, most gecko species lack eyelids, so to moisturize 181 00:12:28,600 --> 00:12:30,600 Speaker 1: their eyes they have to give them a good lick 182 00:12:30,679 --> 00:12:34,079 Speaker 1: with their long, flexible tongue. But you also have species 183 00:12:34,360 --> 00:12:38,160 Speaker 1: like snakes who do not have eyelids and they can't 184 00:12:38,160 --> 00:12:42,040 Speaker 1: really lick their eyes with their tongue to keep them hydrated. 185 00:12:42,080 --> 00:12:45,960 Speaker 1: But they do have a hard, clear, protective eye cap, 186 00:12:46,480 --> 00:12:49,240 Speaker 1: one that they can actually shed and regenerate along with 187 00:12:49,280 --> 00:12:54,280 Speaker 1: the rest of their skin. And flies clean their eyeballs 188 00:12:54,280 --> 00:12:57,200 Speaker 1: with their forelegs. You may have actually seen them doing this. 189 00:12:57,360 --> 00:13:00,160 Speaker 1: When you watch a fly carefully as its lands, you 190 00:13:00,200 --> 00:13:03,400 Speaker 1: see its little fore legs going around cleaning its head, 191 00:13:03,440 --> 00:13:05,760 Speaker 1: cleaning its eyes. So you can give it a good 192 00:13:06,000 --> 00:13:08,439 Speaker 1: just rub down with your hands if you need to 193 00:13:08,480 --> 00:13:11,720 Speaker 1: clean your eyes. Don't do that, You'll hurt yourself. Our 194 00:13:11,840 --> 00:13:17,640 Speaker 1: eyes are very sensitive. So personally looking at Mike Wakowski, 195 00:13:18,440 --> 00:13:22,120 Speaker 1: I don't think Mike Wolkowski would have tear ducks. I've 196 00:13:22,160 --> 00:13:24,800 Speaker 1: never seen him cry or his eyes water in a movie. 197 00:13:24,920 --> 00:13:27,840 Speaker 1: Someone let me know if I'm wrong about that. But 198 00:13:28,000 --> 00:13:30,840 Speaker 1: given the shape of his eye, it's very bulbous, it's 199 00:13:30,960 --> 00:13:34,440 Speaker 1: very large, it seems like it'd be really difficult for 200 00:13:34,559 --> 00:13:36,920 Speaker 1: a tear duck to cover that whole eye and to 201 00:13:37,200 --> 00:13:42,720 Speaker 1: actually keep that moist and given the size of the eye, 202 00:13:42,720 --> 00:13:46,200 Speaker 1: also there'd be a lot of danger of debris getting 203 00:13:46,200 --> 00:13:49,040 Speaker 1: into that eye. Just the probability of something smacking him 204 00:13:49,280 --> 00:13:52,480 Speaker 1: in that eye is so high that I do think 205 00:13:52,520 --> 00:13:56,480 Speaker 1: he probably would have a hard clear eye cap similar 206 00:13:56,520 --> 00:14:02,000 Speaker 1: to a snake basically like a permanent large contact lens, 207 00:14:02,160 --> 00:14:05,760 Speaker 1: but it covers his whole eye and something that maybe 208 00:14:05,800 --> 00:14:09,160 Speaker 1: he sheds with his skin. Mikeawelkowski probably does shed his 209 00:14:09,200 --> 00:14:12,720 Speaker 1: skin on sort of a monthly maybe bimonthly, right, I 210 00:14:12,760 --> 00:14:15,240 Speaker 1: can only think how he can keep his skin so 211 00:14:16,000 --> 00:14:20,880 Speaker 1: clear and moisturized other than frequent shedding. But also I 212 00:14:20,880 --> 00:14:23,600 Speaker 1: think Mike Wolkowski would have to use other cleaning techniques. 213 00:14:23,680 --> 00:14:25,520 Speaker 1: I mean, it is a big eye. I don't know 214 00:14:25,520 --> 00:14:28,760 Speaker 1: if an eye cap is enough. He'd probably have to 215 00:14:28,800 --> 00:14:32,000 Speaker 1: wipe it with his hands or his tongue. Maybe if 216 00:14:32,360 --> 00:14:35,800 Speaker 1: Michaelkowski is like a species. It's unclear to me exactly 217 00:14:35,840 --> 00:14:40,320 Speaker 1: how monsters inc works. If they're each unique, if they're 218 00:14:40,360 --> 00:14:44,479 Speaker 1: members of a species, if they're all the same species 219 00:14:44,520 --> 00:14:49,920 Speaker 1: but they all have extremely different phenotypes, it is a mystery. Nevertheless, 220 00:14:49,960 --> 00:14:53,080 Speaker 1: I would think that for all of these monsters who 221 00:14:53,200 --> 00:14:58,640 Speaker 1: have huge cycloptic eyes, they probably would have some kind 222 00:14:58,640 --> 00:15:02,280 Speaker 1: of like contact solution. He could squirt on there to 223 00:15:02,480 --> 00:15:08,960 Speaker 1: keep his eye cap clean. Maybe he uses his hands. Uh, 224 00:15:09,160 --> 00:15:14,760 Speaker 1: maybe he has a nictitating membrane underneath his eyelid. We 225 00:15:14,800 --> 00:15:17,360 Speaker 1: know he has an eyelet, he's very expressive, But a 226 00:15:17,440 --> 00:15:22,000 Speaker 1: nictotating membrane is a third semi transparent eyelet that runs 227 00:15:22,080 --> 00:15:26,400 Speaker 1: horizontally across the eye, helping to clean it. So many 228 00:15:26,480 --> 00:15:31,040 Speaker 1: bird species and reptiles have a full nictitating membrane, and 229 00:15:31,200 --> 00:15:34,720 Speaker 1: mammals like cats and dogs have a partial membrane. That's 230 00:15:34,760 --> 00:15:37,200 Speaker 1: sometimes like when you have a very sleepy cat and 231 00:15:37,240 --> 00:15:39,160 Speaker 1: you see it wake up and it's got that weird 232 00:15:39,320 --> 00:15:43,760 Speaker 1: white thing covering half of its eye. That's the nictitating membrane, 233 00:15:44,000 --> 00:15:47,120 Speaker 1: and so yeah, I think Michael Kowski would probably have that. 234 00:15:47,760 --> 00:15:52,280 Speaker 1: And uh, I mean the other I guess eyeball cleaning 235 00:15:52,320 --> 00:15:55,640 Speaker 1: protection moisturizing thing is something that you see in say, 236 00:15:55,760 --> 00:16:00,880 Speaker 1: land snails, terrestrial snails, where their entire ey stock can 237 00:16:00,880 --> 00:16:05,160 Speaker 1: invert and roll back into their head, kind of squish back, 238 00:16:05,400 --> 00:16:08,600 Speaker 1: and that's a way to clean it and to also 239 00:16:08,720 --> 00:16:12,360 Speaker 1: moisturize it with some mucus. I don't think Michaelkowski would 240 00:16:12,360 --> 00:16:15,120 Speaker 1: do that. I can't imagine. It doesn't seem like his 241 00:16:15,280 --> 00:16:20,760 Speaker 1: body is big enough to contain that. I don't even 242 00:16:20,800 --> 00:16:23,480 Speaker 1: know that his eyeball can move in his socket. It 243 00:16:23,640 --> 00:16:25,480 Speaker 1: seems too big. It seems like he has to move 244 00:16:25,520 --> 00:16:29,080 Speaker 1: his whole body to change his field of vision, which 245 00:16:29,480 --> 00:16:32,360 Speaker 1: might be pretty big considering the size of his eye. 246 00:16:32,400 --> 00:16:36,760 Speaker 1: You actually see that in say owls, or actually this 247 00:16:36,840 --> 00:16:40,920 Speaker 1: little primate called a tarsier. They have such huge eyes 248 00:16:41,000 --> 00:16:42,920 Speaker 1: they can't really move them in their sockets, so they 249 00:16:42,920 --> 00:16:45,600 Speaker 1: have to move their whole heads. Mike Wwikowski does not 250 00:16:45,760 --> 00:16:48,480 Speaker 1: have a neck, so I imagine he has to move 251 00:16:48,520 --> 00:16:53,000 Speaker 1: his whole body in order to get that full range 252 00:16:53,040 --> 00:16:55,360 Speaker 1: of vision, which you know, at least he's getting a 253 00:16:55,360 --> 00:17:03,040 Speaker 1: little more of a workout. So this is a question 254 00:17:04,000 --> 00:17:07,160 Speaker 1: that actually talks about a bonus episode that I recorded 255 00:17:07,280 --> 00:17:10,520 Speaker 1: with my friend Alex Schmidt. We have a podcast together 256 00:17:10,640 --> 00:17:15,160 Speaker 1: called Secretly Incredibly Fascinating. If you enjoy this show, I 257 00:17:15,200 --> 00:17:17,200 Speaker 1: am very confident you would also enjoy that show, so 258 00:17:17,320 --> 00:17:20,880 Speaker 1: please check it out. All right, here is the question. Hey, 259 00:17:21,000 --> 00:17:24,200 Speaker 1: Katie was listening to the Crows bonus episode with Alex, 260 00:17:24,280 --> 00:17:27,560 Speaker 1: and it had me wondering the weird Victorian dude in 261 00:17:27,600 --> 00:17:30,280 Speaker 1: their garage that came up with all these group animal terms. 262 00:17:30,320 --> 00:17:32,720 Speaker 1: Is there any chance they were fans of corvids and 263 00:17:32,800 --> 00:17:36,240 Speaker 1: gave them names on purpose that people would avoid eating, 264 00:17:36,480 --> 00:17:39,240 Speaker 1: because it sounds like this perception of them being murderous 265 00:17:39,280 --> 00:17:42,560 Speaker 1: and unkind saved countless lives. This is from PK. Thank 266 00:17:42,560 --> 00:17:45,080 Speaker 1: you so much for the crow's question. So there's a 267 00:17:45,119 --> 00:17:49,239 Speaker 1: lot of crows based phrases like murder of crows, right, 268 00:17:49,280 --> 00:17:52,600 Speaker 1: which is the term for the group of crows. But 269 00:17:52,640 --> 00:17:58,200 Speaker 1: there's also phrases like eating crow or crowing about something 270 00:17:58,320 --> 00:18:00,560 Speaker 1: or other. So where did these phrases come from and 271 00:18:00,640 --> 00:18:03,199 Speaker 1: what do they have to do with crows. So in 272 00:18:03,280 --> 00:18:07,160 Speaker 1: terms of the phrase murder of crows, most biologists sort 273 00:18:07,160 --> 00:18:11,520 Speaker 1: of ignore the silly name conventions for specific species of animals, 274 00:18:11,520 --> 00:18:14,760 Speaker 1: most of us just for fun. There's just a few 275 00:18:14,800 --> 00:18:17,840 Speaker 1: general terms that are used for certain orders or clades 276 00:18:17,880 --> 00:18:21,639 Speaker 1: of animals that biologists actually use, like herds of ungulates, 277 00:18:21,680 --> 00:18:26,320 Speaker 1: flocks of birds, troops of primates, packs of dogs, schools 278 00:18:26,320 --> 00:18:29,800 Speaker 1: of fish, et cetera. So I don't know if a 279 00:18:30,040 --> 00:18:33,760 Speaker 1: crow researcher or covid researcher would refer to them as 280 00:18:33,800 --> 00:18:37,480 Speaker 1: anything other than a flock, but crows have long been 281 00:18:37,520 --> 00:18:40,560 Speaker 1: associated with death in the West, and so it is 282 00:18:41,560 --> 00:18:45,720 Speaker 1: very unsurprising that they got this term of a group 283 00:18:45,760 --> 00:18:50,400 Speaker 1: of crows being a murder of crows. So crows are scavengers, 284 00:18:50,400 --> 00:18:56,040 Speaker 1: but they're omnivores, so they will eat carrion, and this 285 00:18:56,240 --> 00:19:00,239 Speaker 1: is seen as kind of gross, right, two people, So 286 00:19:00,280 --> 00:19:03,680 Speaker 1: they may have been seen in places where there were 287 00:19:03,880 --> 00:19:08,480 Speaker 1: dead humans as well, like graveyards or battlefields where you 288 00:19:08,720 --> 00:19:11,840 Speaker 1: have or maybe even after a plague or illness, right, 289 00:19:11,880 --> 00:19:14,520 Speaker 1: and you have a bunch of human corpses. So things 290 00:19:14,600 --> 00:19:17,800 Speaker 1: that we have an aversion to, right, a bunch of 291 00:19:17,880 --> 00:19:22,200 Speaker 1: human bodies or you know, moldering carrion. We don't really 292 00:19:22,200 --> 00:19:24,720 Speaker 1: appreciate that as humans, and so if we see a 293 00:19:24,760 --> 00:19:28,800 Speaker 1: lot of crows around it, the association is probably going 294 00:19:28,840 --> 00:19:33,080 Speaker 1: to be pretty negative. They're also all black, and they 295 00:19:33,119 --> 00:19:36,240 Speaker 1: have these guttural calls, which may have added to their 296 00:19:36,240 --> 00:19:40,000 Speaker 1: Gothic mystique. I think they're really beautiful, and I think 297 00:19:40,040 --> 00:19:43,159 Speaker 1: that the sounds that they can make are really really interesting, 298 00:19:43,200 --> 00:19:44,880 Speaker 1: because they can make a lot of sounds other than 299 00:19:44,960 --> 00:19:48,720 Speaker 1: just that calling sound, so it can ravens really really cool. 300 00:19:49,400 --> 00:19:54,320 Speaker 1: But there were all sorts of other negative superstitions about crows, 301 00:19:54,359 --> 00:19:57,000 Speaker 1: like how they might peck out your eyes, or that 302 00:19:57,040 --> 00:19:59,800 Speaker 1: they're omens of death. Of course none of this is true. 303 00:20:00,359 --> 00:20:03,000 Speaker 1: You may see a crow with an eyeball in its mouth, 304 00:20:03,040 --> 00:20:05,560 Speaker 1: but that is just because that crow got lucky and 305 00:20:05,640 --> 00:20:08,639 Speaker 1: scavenged and eyeball. They are just as likely to enjoy 306 00:20:08,720 --> 00:20:13,560 Speaker 1: a nice berry or nut, being omnivorous. So the murder 307 00:20:13,600 --> 00:20:17,520 Speaker 1: of crows terminology probably came from the general spooky vibe 308 00:20:17,640 --> 00:20:21,840 Speaker 1: that crows give off. Despite them not being particularly murderous 309 00:20:22,000 --> 00:20:25,359 Speaker 1: at least to each other or to humans, they will 310 00:20:25,480 --> 00:20:29,080 Speaker 1: kill small prey like insects, rodents or baby birds. But 311 00:20:29,359 --> 00:20:31,560 Speaker 1: you know that's what a cat does, So why aren't 312 00:20:31,600 --> 00:20:34,400 Speaker 1: we calling them a murder of cats? But yeah, crows 313 00:20:34,400 --> 00:20:37,040 Speaker 1: are not completely murder free, but they don't murder people. 314 00:20:37,200 --> 00:20:40,240 Speaker 1: They don't generally murder each other. They're not the most 315 00:20:40,359 --> 00:20:43,719 Speaker 1: murdery of animals. I think if we make a hierarchy 316 00:20:43,880 --> 00:20:49,000 Speaker 1: of murder animals. I don't think that the weird Victorian 317 00:20:49,000 --> 00:20:51,280 Speaker 1: who came up with the name was protecting the crows. 318 00:20:52,320 --> 00:20:56,040 Speaker 1: I think the crows already likely had many superstitions surrounding 319 00:20:56,080 --> 00:20:59,520 Speaker 1: them that protected them from being hunted for their meat. 320 00:21:00,359 --> 00:21:04,280 Speaker 1: Superstitions also probably just sort of as an aside, This 321 00:21:04,359 --> 00:21:08,119 Speaker 1: probably did save the lives of albatrosses and other seabirds 322 00:21:08,840 --> 00:21:12,480 Speaker 1: because sailors thought it was bad luck to kill an albatross. 323 00:21:12,600 --> 00:21:15,240 Speaker 1: In fact, the term an albatross around your neck, meaning 324 00:21:15,359 --> 00:21:18,680 Speaker 1: like an issue that is a big pain that keeps 325 00:21:18,680 --> 00:21:23,960 Speaker 1: following you around, is from Samuel Coleridge's nineteen seventy eight 326 00:21:24,000 --> 00:21:27,080 Speaker 1: poem The Rhyme of the Ancient Mariner, in which a 327 00:21:27,119 --> 00:21:30,640 Speaker 1: mariner kills an albatross, causing bad luck in the winds 328 00:21:30,680 --> 00:21:34,680 Speaker 1: to die down around the ship and stranding him and 329 00:21:34,720 --> 00:21:39,159 Speaker 1: his fellow sailors. As punishment, his fellow sailors string the 330 00:21:39,440 --> 00:21:43,159 Speaker 1: dead albatross around his neck, which is a reminder of 331 00:21:43,200 --> 00:21:47,119 Speaker 1: his crime that doomed them. So onto the other phrases 332 00:21:47,280 --> 00:21:50,560 Speaker 1: about crows. Where do these other sayings about crows come from? 333 00:21:50,800 --> 00:21:55,840 Speaker 1: Like eating crow? So eating crow means having to admit 334 00:21:55,920 --> 00:22:00,640 Speaker 1: to being wrong. This phrase likely originated in the eighteen 335 00:22:00,720 --> 00:22:04,920 Speaker 1: hundreds and was probably just to evoke disgust at the 336 00:22:04,960 --> 00:22:09,720 Speaker 1: idea of eating something unpleasant. There's a possible short story, 337 00:22:09,920 --> 00:22:13,120 Speaker 1: a kind of humorous story that originated the phrase, printed 338 00:22:13,119 --> 00:22:17,440 Speaker 1: in eighteen fifty under the title eating Crow. It's about 339 00:22:17,440 --> 00:22:20,160 Speaker 1: a New York farmer who claims he's not picky about 340 00:22:20,200 --> 00:22:23,679 Speaker 1: food and could eat anything, and so, of course, he 341 00:22:23,800 --> 00:22:27,720 Speaker 1: is provoked by his chums who tried to get him 342 00:22:27,720 --> 00:22:31,679 Speaker 1: to eat a crow laced with snuff, which is a 343 00:22:31,720 --> 00:22:35,480 Speaker 1: type of tobacco, And after he eats this dish, he says, 344 00:22:35,600 --> 00:22:38,000 Speaker 1: I can eat a crow, but I be darned if 345 00:22:38,000 --> 00:22:41,639 Speaker 1: I hanker after it, which basically means I can eat it, 346 00:22:41,880 --> 00:22:46,760 Speaker 1: but gross yuck. So it is this possibly this short 347 00:22:46,760 --> 00:22:50,679 Speaker 1: story that popularized the phrase eating crow, but essentially for 348 00:22:50,800 --> 00:22:55,720 Speaker 1: a while the idea of eating crow was unpleasant to 349 00:22:55,800 --> 00:23:00,040 Speaker 1: people because crows are scavengers and they eat carrion. This 350 00:23:00,160 --> 00:23:03,000 Speaker 1: was thought to be kind of a gross food. So 351 00:23:03,080 --> 00:23:05,439 Speaker 1: the idea being you are eating something that may have 352 00:23:05,480 --> 00:23:09,399 Speaker 1: eaten a dead body, maybe even human remains. Its quicked 353 00:23:09,440 --> 00:23:14,640 Speaker 1: people out. So that idea that crows are not good 354 00:23:14,640 --> 00:23:17,320 Speaker 1: for eating probably did save some of their lives, right, 355 00:23:17,560 --> 00:23:20,040 Speaker 1: Because apparently I've read that crow meat actually does not 356 00:23:20,320 --> 00:23:23,159 Speaker 1: taste bad. I wouldn't know. I've never eaten a crow. 357 00:23:23,320 --> 00:23:27,080 Speaker 1: I love crows too much. So what about crowing about 358 00:23:27,080 --> 00:23:30,560 Speaker 1: something or other, meaning someone is bragging, Well, this actually 359 00:23:30,600 --> 00:23:33,800 Speaker 1: has nothing to do with crows. Crow also means the 360 00:23:33,840 --> 00:23:36,679 Speaker 1: call of a rooster, and so the idea that someone 361 00:23:36,760 --> 00:23:39,959 Speaker 1: is being loud and obnoxious in a proud way is 362 00:23:40,080 --> 00:23:44,080 Speaker 1: supposed to be evocative of a rooster crowing proudly right, 363 00:23:44,240 --> 00:23:47,560 Speaker 1: sticking out its little chest, and crowing in the morning. 364 00:23:48,119 --> 00:23:51,000 Speaker 1: So the name crow for the bird we know and 365 00:23:51,080 --> 00:23:56,160 Speaker 1: love probably came from the automotopia of the Old English 366 00:23:56,200 --> 00:24:01,159 Speaker 1: word crawl, which was probably used for multiple bird calls. 367 00:24:01,240 --> 00:24:04,359 Speaker 1: But stuck is the name for crows, probably because their 368 00:24:04,480 --> 00:24:07,639 Speaker 1: call is very, very distinctive and they are also quite 369 00:24:07,680 --> 00:24:12,120 Speaker 1: present around human society. So there you have it, all 370 00:24:12,280 --> 00:24:15,840 Speaker 1: the crow etymology facts that I can think of. If 371 00:24:15,840 --> 00:24:21,040 Speaker 1: you have more questions about animals, animal behavior, your pets, 372 00:24:21,680 --> 00:24:25,120 Speaker 1: why are we got certain ideas about animals, or if 373 00:24:25,160 --> 00:24:28,760 Speaker 1: certain myths or superstitions about animals are correct or wrong? 374 00:24:29,359 --> 00:24:33,320 Speaker 1: Anything about animals or evolutionary biology, you can write to 375 00:24:33,400 --> 00:24:36,840 Speaker 1: me at Creature Featurepod at gmail dot com and I 376 00:24:36,880 --> 00:24:38,920 Speaker 1: will do my best to answer your question. I will 377 00:24:39,000 --> 00:24:41,879 Speaker 1: either do it here on the show in these listener 378 00:24:41,960 --> 00:24:44,600 Speaker 1: questions episodes, or I will write back to you, or 379 00:24:44,640 --> 00:24:48,280 Speaker 1: maybe even both. Who's to say, uh, but yes, I 380 00:24:48,359 --> 00:24:51,080 Speaker 1: really do appreciate your questions. They are really interesting and 381 00:24:51,119 --> 00:24:55,160 Speaker 1: often they have me off on a little research spree, 382 00:24:55,280 --> 00:24:57,239 Speaker 1: right Like, I didn't know about the etymology of all 383 00:24:57,240 --> 00:24:59,080 Speaker 1: these crow terms, and tell you ask this question, and 384 00:24:59,160 --> 00:25:01,640 Speaker 1: I looked all this up so it helps me learn. 385 00:25:01,920 --> 00:25:04,560 Speaker 1: I hope it helps you learn. Thank you guys so much, 386 00:25:04,800 --> 00:25:09,400 Speaker 1: and yeah, I will see you next time. Creature Feature 387 00:25:09,520 --> 00:25:12,760 Speaker 1: is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts like the 388 00:25:12,760 --> 00:25:15,280 Speaker 1: one you just heard, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, 389 00:25:15,359 --> 00:25:18,040 Speaker 1: or hey guess what wherever you listen to your favorite 390 00:25:18,080 --> 00:25:21,080 Speaker 1: shows I do not judge you, and I'm not your mother, 391 00:25:21,119 --> 00:25:23,000 Speaker 1: and I can't tell you what to do, but I 392 00:25:23,040 --> 00:25:26,080 Speaker 1: do love you all very much. See you next Wednesday.