1 00:00:05,160 --> 00:00:07,360 Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha. I'm welcome to stuff 2 00:00:07,400 --> 00:00:08,880 Speaker 1: I never told you protection if I heart with you. 3 00:00:18,640 --> 00:00:25,360 Speaker 2: And welcome to another holiday Monday, Mini, and it's not 4 00:00:25,520 --> 00:00:28,400 Speaker 2: a happy one. I guess I should put this in. 5 00:00:28,440 --> 00:00:30,680 Speaker 2: I think this is just a conversation. We've had many 6 00:00:30,800 --> 00:00:34,400 Speaker 2: conversations like this, so not necessarily trigger warning. We're not 7 00:00:34,440 --> 00:00:37,800 Speaker 2: doing anything deep and dark. But you know, we know 8 00:00:37,880 --> 00:00:41,840 Speaker 2: holidays are stressful, so if family talking about family is stressful, 9 00:00:42,240 --> 00:00:44,800 Speaker 2: you can save this one. I'm gonna say that. And 10 00:00:44,920 --> 00:00:48,159 Speaker 2: today is December fourth, twenty five aspect we're recording it. 11 00:00:48,280 --> 00:00:50,519 Speaker 2: So I just want to put this timestamp because we 12 00:00:50,600 --> 00:00:53,440 Speaker 2: know this is ever changing in conversation, and I feel 13 00:00:53,479 --> 00:00:59,600 Speaker 2: like we're taking terms like no contact, narcissism and all 14 00:00:59,600 --> 00:01:02,880 Speaker 2: of that and really having a field day on who 15 00:01:03,040 --> 00:01:06,240 Speaker 2: or what that is talking about and who's allowed to 16 00:01:06,319 --> 00:01:09,880 Speaker 2: use these terms. Weirdly, I know, but it changes. So 17 00:01:10,240 --> 00:01:12,440 Speaker 2: with that, yeah, there's a timestamp, but we are talking 18 00:01:12,440 --> 00:01:15,600 Speaker 2: about no contact. So it's the holidays again, and that 19 00:01:15,720 --> 00:01:19,920 Speaker 2: comes with a lot of mixed feelings, emotions, stress, all 20 00:01:20,000 --> 00:01:22,600 Speaker 2: the above, and interestingly, people seem to have a lot 21 00:01:22,640 --> 00:01:26,839 Speaker 2: of thoughts on going no contact with families again, especially 22 00:01:26,880 --> 00:01:30,319 Speaker 2: since it's the holiday times, and for clarification, I guess 23 00:01:30,360 --> 00:01:31,920 Speaker 2: just to put it out that no contact is pretty 24 00:01:31,959 --> 00:01:34,920 Speaker 2: much just cutting all communications off with someone that you 25 00:01:35,200 --> 00:01:39,080 Speaker 2: feel is not beneficial or toxic to your help and 26 00:01:39,120 --> 00:01:41,880 Speaker 2: your well being. So you know, you may be seeing 27 00:01:41,959 --> 00:01:44,240 Speaker 2: it as I'm going no contact with my mother. That's 28 00:01:44,240 --> 00:01:48,560 Speaker 2: the most that I've seen or my family member. And 29 00:01:48,600 --> 00:01:53,640 Speaker 2: we've talked about how the politics and political conversations has 30 00:01:53,680 --> 00:01:57,320 Speaker 2: really kind of heightened that level of need to need 31 00:01:57,320 --> 00:02:00,480 Speaker 2: to really separate or go low contact is another thing 32 00:02:00,480 --> 00:02:02,960 Speaker 2: that we've talked about. I've said that word a couple 33 00:02:03,000 --> 00:02:05,000 Speaker 2: of years ago as well, I feel like I need 34 00:02:05,040 --> 00:02:08,480 Speaker 2: to do this or it's going to ruin our relationship period. 35 00:02:09,040 --> 00:02:12,680 Speaker 2: So we've talked about this a lot in that context, 36 00:02:12,680 --> 00:02:16,320 Speaker 2: but there's seem to be big creators or big celebrities 37 00:02:16,320 --> 00:02:19,000 Speaker 2: who are talking about this. And for those of you 38 00:02:19,000 --> 00:02:24,639 Speaker 2: who aren't as online as I am, because I have problems, 39 00:02:24,720 --> 00:02:27,959 Speaker 2: but anyway, there's been some big names who have decided 40 00:02:28,000 --> 00:02:30,880 Speaker 2: to take this time to have their own opinions be 41 00:02:31,080 --> 00:02:35,520 Speaker 2: spread about, including Oprah Rimfrey and Mel Robbins. So if 42 00:02:35,520 --> 00:02:37,239 Speaker 2: you don't know who Mel Robins is I feel like 43 00:02:37,320 --> 00:02:40,200 Speaker 2: you're in the podcast interest. You like podcasts, you probably 44 00:02:40,200 --> 00:02:42,840 Speaker 2: know who this is. But she is a best selling 45 00:02:42,840 --> 00:02:45,760 Speaker 2: author and podcaster with lots of self help books, and 46 00:02:45,800 --> 00:02:49,240 Speaker 2: I believe she has a law degree, so it's not 47 00:02:49,280 --> 00:02:51,280 Speaker 2: like she's I thought maybe she was a counselor at 48 00:02:51,320 --> 00:02:53,040 Speaker 2: one point in time. No, she just has a lot 49 00:02:53,080 --> 00:02:56,280 Speaker 2: of opinions, which is fine. And I think a lot 50 00:02:56,280 --> 00:02:59,320 Speaker 2: of people follow her because they really liked some of 51 00:02:59,360 --> 00:03:01,720 Speaker 2: her contact. And I think she's one of those people 52 00:03:01,720 --> 00:03:06,840 Speaker 2: who says you can't change other people, which is very true. 53 00:03:06,919 --> 00:03:11,440 Speaker 2: Which is very true. Okay, Yeah, so back to this. 54 00:03:12,080 --> 00:03:14,960 Speaker 2: Robins actually wrote an article for the New York Times 55 00:03:14,960 --> 00:03:17,960 Speaker 2: opinion section called life is too Short to Fight with 56 00:03:18,080 --> 00:03:22,600 Speaker 2: your Family, where she seems to be saying to children 57 00:03:23,080 --> 00:03:27,160 Speaker 2: to let things go and just be okay. So I 58 00:03:27,240 --> 00:03:31,400 Speaker 2: did not read the full piece to be very transparent, 59 00:03:31,520 --> 00:03:34,680 Speaker 2: but man, it is all over my feed about her 60 00:03:34,880 --> 00:03:39,280 Speaker 2: comments and conversations in this and it is interesting in 61 00:03:39,320 --> 00:03:42,000 Speaker 2: that level because I've seen a lot of whom I 62 00:03:42,000 --> 00:03:45,880 Speaker 2: would put Gen X boomer generations who are like, you 63 00:03:45,920 --> 00:03:49,400 Speaker 2: need to let things go, You're being too sensitive. You 64 00:03:49,480 --> 00:03:52,440 Speaker 2: need to give everybody chances repeatedly. This is kind of 65 00:03:52,440 --> 00:03:56,920 Speaker 2: the conversation we've always had to our detriment. And I 66 00:03:56,960 --> 00:04:01,760 Speaker 2: say this as a millennial slash gen X in between. 67 00:04:01,800 --> 00:04:03,520 Speaker 2: I don't know what else to say it. I'm an 68 00:04:03,600 --> 00:04:06,920 Speaker 2: elder millennial exllennial as some people would say. So I 69 00:04:06,920 --> 00:04:08,600 Speaker 2: feel like I have a little bit of a grasp 70 00:04:08,680 --> 00:04:12,200 Speaker 2: on both in that level again from the south to country, 71 00:04:12,240 --> 00:04:14,000 Speaker 2: and I feel like that makes me more X gen 72 00:04:14,320 --> 00:04:18,760 Speaker 2: X just with that anyway. So again I think I'm 73 00:04:18,760 --> 00:04:20,839 Speaker 2: oversimplifying in that when I say it like that that 74 00:04:20,920 --> 00:04:24,600 Speaker 2: she's just like, Eh, let it go. The people, you know, 75 00:04:24,880 --> 00:04:26,960 Speaker 2: you just need to be okay with them. They're never 76 00:04:27,000 --> 00:04:29,320 Speaker 2: going to change. But many people have a lot of 77 00:04:29,360 --> 00:04:31,880 Speaker 2: feelings and have spoken a lot about what's going on. 78 00:04:31,920 --> 00:04:34,680 Speaker 2: So this was one from one or article written by 79 00:04:34,800 --> 00:04:39,920 Speaker 2: John Pavelowitz in his sub Stack, which he talks about 80 00:04:40,839 --> 00:04:43,520 Speaker 2: it's hard to be in contact with racist family members, 81 00:04:43,520 --> 00:04:46,240 Speaker 2: so he essentially says this, But in this piece he 82 00:04:46,320 --> 00:04:50,400 Speaker 2: says Robin warns against the dangers of distancing ourselves from 83 00:04:50,400 --> 00:04:53,720 Speaker 2: those whose beliefs differ from our own. She warns that 84 00:04:53,800 --> 00:04:57,240 Speaker 2: in the long run, creating a relational and physical proximity 85 00:04:57,279 --> 00:05:00,680 Speaker 2: between ourselves and loved ones we disagree with will likely 86 00:05:00,720 --> 00:05:04,640 Speaker 2: have a devastating impact on our happiness and well being, 87 00:05:05,279 --> 00:05:09,000 Speaker 2: it continues the let them theory author, So the let 88 00:05:09,080 --> 00:05:11,400 Speaker 2: them is like you have to let them be done. Essentially, 89 00:05:11,440 --> 00:05:14,240 Speaker 2: I think the let them theory author advises readers to 90 00:05:14,320 --> 00:05:17,119 Speaker 2: bear with the faults and failings of family members, saying 91 00:05:17,120 --> 00:05:19,560 Speaker 2: that the key is quote learning how to accept people 92 00:05:19,600 --> 00:05:23,080 Speaker 2: as they are, sometimes in spite of who they are. 93 00:05:23,960 --> 00:05:27,080 Speaker 2: And though he tries to be understanding, I think he 94 00:05:27,200 --> 00:05:29,680 Speaker 2: really comes back with like, don't get me wrong, we 95 00:05:29,720 --> 00:05:32,240 Speaker 2: do need to try to get along. It's not like 96 00:05:32,880 --> 00:05:36,240 Speaker 2: you being immediately like I'm done with you can be 97 00:05:37,600 --> 00:05:42,000 Speaker 2: harmful for yourself as well. But he also makes this point, 98 00:05:42,480 --> 00:05:46,039 Speaker 2: but at some point it's perfectly acceptable and admirable to 99 00:05:46,080 --> 00:05:49,120 Speaker 2: cut ties with people with whom we've come to realize 100 00:05:49,160 --> 00:05:53,039 Speaker 2: we are morally incompatible, not just for our mental, emotional, 101 00:05:53,120 --> 00:05:55,920 Speaker 2: and physical help, but because in doing so, we will 102 00:05:55,920 --> 00:05:58,680 Speaker 2: be emancipated from the shame that tells us we owe 103 00:05:58,720 --> 00:06:03,240 Speaker 2: anyone proximity or permanence. When liberated in that way, we 104 00:06:03,320 --> 00:06:06,640 Speaker 2: can fully advocate for the vulnerable and oppressed and marginalized 105 00:06:06,680 --> 00:06:09,760 Speaker 2: instead of pretending they don't exist just so we can 106 00:06:09,839 --> 00:06:14,880 Speaker 2: have a nice dinner. So there's a lot in that 107 00:06:14,960 --> 00:06:17,440 Speaker 2: context because I feel like, again, this is the older 108 00:06:17,480 --> 00:06:22,520 Speaker 2: group of people or the very center leaning people who 109 00:06:22,560 --> 00:06:25,320 Speaker 2: is like, I'm center, I don't I'm not on non 110 00:06:25,360 --> 00:06:27,680 Speaker 2: political Why can't we just let this be why you 111 00:06:27,720 --> 00:06:29,240 Speaker 2: have to make this a big deal type of thing. 112 00:06:29,360 --> 00:06:33,640 Speaker 2: It's that same level of conversation that we had with 113 00:06:34,040 --> 00:06:37,360 Speaker 2: when we talk about women not dating Republicans. We talk 114 00:06:37,400 --> 00:06:39,760 Speaker 2: about women saying we will not date you if you 115 00:06:39,880 --> 00:06:44,159 Speaker 2: are in this pipeline, like this kind of simplification of like, 116 00:06:44,160 --> 00:06:47,839 Speaker 2: but there, you're just pushing out people that needs you 117 00:06:47,920 --> 00:06:51,320 Speaker 2: the most, as if those responsibilities are placed back on 118 00:06:51,480 --> 00:06:56,400 Speaker 2: to you. Right. And Oprah apparently has some opinions on 119 00:06:56,480 --> 00:07:01,240 Speaker 2: it too, calling this move an epidemic going no contact. 120 00:07:01,240 --> 00:07:03,840 Speaker 2: This revelation that people children are going no contact is 121 00:07:03,920 --> 00:07:06,479 Speaker 2: an epidemic. It's a sad epidemic in the world. So 122 00:07:06,680 --> 00:07:10,560 Speaker 2: in November, Obrah decided to do a groundbreaking she called 123 00:07:10,560 --> 00:07:13,920 Speaker 2: it Groundbreaking show episode where she features parents and children 124 00:07:13,960 --> 00:07:16,200 Speaker 2: that talk about their relationships and how it led to 125 00:07:16,200 --> 00:07:19,040 Speaker 2: no contact. I don't think she brought in the parent 126 00:07:19,160 --> 00:07:23,880 Speaker 2: child specifically from like one family, but like different people 127 00:07:23,960 --> 00:07:26,400 Speaker 2: who went either no contact or people went no contact 128 00:07:26,440 --> 00:07:29,800 Speaker 2: with them and they talked about their feelings. And now 129 00:07:29,800 --> 00:07:32,280 Speaker 2: again I will also relate I did not watch all 130 00:07:32,320 --> 00:07:34,240 Speaker 2: of this. This is all like I give clips and 131 00:07:34,320 --> 00:07:36,760 Speaker 2: coming back into like, ha, this is a lot of conversation, 132 00:07:37,120 --> 00:07:40,040 Speaker 2: and I think her back and forth is again she 133 00:07:40,120 --> 00:07:42,880 Speaker 2: does try to get a whole picture of this, but 134 00:07:43,000 --> 00:07:45,480 Speaker 2: also comes back into oh, this is kind of sad 135 00:07:45,560 --> 00:07:51,360 Speaker 2: though type of conversation. So in her interview she talks 136 00:07:51,400 --> 00:07:54,640 Speaker 2: about statistics and she actually posted this as an advertisment 137 00:07:54,800 --> 00:07:58,600 Speaker 2: in her Instagram for the episode, she says around one 138 00:07:58,640 --> 00:08:01,360 Speaker 2: third of Americans have cut off off ties from their family. 139 00:08:01,760 --> 00:08:04,960 Speaker 2: Once considered taboo going no contact with their family is 140 00:08:05,000 --> 00:08:08,360 Speaker 2: now being openly discussed by people of all ages. People 141 00:08:08,400 --> 00:08:12,720 Speaker 2: are now redefining what healthy boundaries look like in family dynamics. 142 00:08:13,560 --> 00:08:16,520 Speaker 2: So she is very like, okay, it seems like all 143 00:08:16,560 --> 00:08:18,800 Speaker 2: could good and well, and then it comes into again 144 00:08:18,880 --> 00:08:21,960 Speaker 2: her questioning things and talking to parents and giving like 145 00:08:22,320 --> 00:08:26,200 Speaker 2: parents like free, uh, I guess free time to say. 146 00:08:26,640 --> 00:08:28,800 Speaker 2: I saw one woman come in and talking about how 147 00:08:29,120 --> 00:08:32,640 Speaker 2: why is it so bad for my son or my children? 148 00:08:32,679 --> 00:08:34,680 Speaker 2: To have no contact with me, but I can't do 149 00:08:34,760 --> 00:08:36,640 Speaker 2: the same. I get villainized if I were to go 150 00:08:36,679 --> 00:08:41,160 Speaker 2: no contact with my children. People have thoughts, People have thoughts. 151 00:08:41,320 --> 00:08:44,640 Speaker 2: It also was said that she actually chose her husband 152 00:08:44,679 --> 00:08:46,920 Speaker 2: over her son at one point, which we've talked about 153 00:08:46,920 --> 00:08:49,840 Speaker 2: this in this dynamics of like especially like family annihilation 154 00:08:49,960 --> 00:08:54,000 Speaker 2: type of stuff where we see step children, not because 155 00:08:54,120 --> 00:08:56,760 Speaker 2: like stepparents are awful, but like not having the good relationship, 156 00:08:56,800 --> 00:08:59,439 Speaker 2: things having happening between the two of them, children being 157 00:08:59,520 --> 00:09:02,840 Speaker 2: murdered by step parents or vice versa, like these levels 158 00:09:02,840 --> 00:09:05,680 Speaker 2: and then history like certain things come along being like, 159 00:09:05,679 --> 00:09:08,760 Speaker 2: oh this was always rocky, this is a thing, and 160 00:09:08,800 --> 00:09:10,640 Speaker 2: not that we're going to come back to blaming mothers 161 00:09:10,640 --> 00:09:13,040 Speaker 2: for all this or not, because there's so many layers 162 00:09:13,080 --> 00:09:16,439 Speaker 2: to how mothers are villainized. But in this level of 163 00:09:16,480 --> 00:09:19,360 Speaker 2: a conversation, she was specifically talking about how she put 164 00:09:19,360 --> 00:09:22,360 Speaker 2: her son out because she would not listen to her 165 00:09:22,440 --> 00:09:25,720 Speaker 2: husband's rules after the fact of not defending her husband 166 00:09:25,960 --> 00:09:29,280 Speaker 2: when he came in and started being physically violent, something 167 00:09:29,280 --> 00:09:31,720 Speaker 2: along those lines. So there's a lot to that, but 168 00:09:31,880 --> 00:09:35,160 Speaker 2: again a whole different level, and people were like, you know, 169 00:09:35,240 --> 00:09:38,200 Speaker 2: because children did not choose to be born. Was one 170 00:09:38,240 --> 00:09:41,040 Speaker 2: of the big conversations. I shouldn't have to pay for 171 00:09:41,120 --> 00:09:44,760 Speaker 2: your sins in order to, you know, to be raised 172 00:09:45,120 --> 00:09:47,160 Speaker 2: in a way. Blah blah blah. But then also in 173 00:09:47,160 --> 00:09:50,080 Speaker 2: that same episode, I did see clips of one man 174 00:09:50,120 --> 00:09:53,160 Speaker 2: who came in talking about how he didn't understand what 175 00:09:53,200 --> 00:09:55,680 Speaker 2: he did wrong. He didn't want to go to therapy, 176 00:09:55,720 --> 00:09:57,400 Speaker 2: but his daughter was willing to go to therapy with 177 00:09:57,480 --> 00:10:00,280 Speaker 2: him if he come back to contact. And when he did, 178 00:10:00,280 --> 00:10:02,760 Speaker 2: he really discovered a lot about himself and had to 179 00:10:02,800 --> 00:10:04,839 Speaker 2: let go of some ideals, like thinking that she was 180 00:10:04,880 --> 00:10:06,600 Speaker 2: a teenager when she was an adult and treating her 181 00:10:06,640 --> 00:10:09,280 Speaker 2: like a teenager, and how that doesn't work anymore, and 182 00:10:09,360 --> 00:10:11,240 Speaker 2: like all these things, and we were like learning a 183 00:10:11,280 --> 00:10:14,240 Speaker 2: lot and coming back to having a beautiful relationship. But 184 00:10:14,320 --> 00:10:17,200 Speaker 2: he was apparently one of few in being able to 185 00:10:17,200 --> 00:10:19,559 Speaker 2: see this, but like it have some of those points 186 00:10:19,559 --> 00:10:33,920 Speaker 2: of views in that conversation. Interestingly about Oprah, because I 187 00:10:33,960 --> 00:10:36,320 Speaker 2: don't know many people know the history of Oprah. I 188 00:10:36,360 --> 00:10:38,720 Speaker 2: don't remember this. I'm not gonna lie because this was 189 00:10:38,720 --> 00:10:41,280 Speaker 2: before my time. My mother loved us some Oprah, though 190 00:10:41,640 --> 00:10:45,360 Speaker 2: loved some Oprah. One viewer actually who is a family 191 00:10:45,440 --> 00:10:48,960 Speaker 2: relationship coach pointed out that it could be said Oprah 192 00:10:49,240 --> 00:10:52,160 Speaker 2: was the beginning of such a phenomenon. So this is 193 00:10:52,160 --> 00:10:54,520 Speaker 2: from a mom and mea article they write. Tania, who 194 00:10:54,640 --> 00:10:58,400 Speaker 2: was the therapist or the coach, claimed Oprah's amplification of 195 00:10:58,440 --> 00:11:01,920 Speaker 2: family estrangement started in the nineties and has continued to 196 00:11:01,960 --> 00:11:05,800 Speaker 2: the present day. She referenced articles about toxic family dynamics 197 00:11:05,840 --> 00:11:09,280 Speaker 2: on Oprah's website look at the chow. She wasn't neutral, 198 00:11:09,320 --> 00:11:12,400 Speaker 2: she wasn't asking questions. She amplified the very messaging that 199 00:11:12,440 --> 00:11:15,400 Speaker 2: contributed to millions of parents and children walking away from 200 00:11:15,440 --> 00:11:18,760 Speaker 2: one another, she argued. The relationship coach, who has personal 201 00:11:18,840 --> 00:11:22,640 Speaker 2: experience with exchangement, questioned why Oprah was shocked by the 202 00:11:22,800 --> 00:11:26,319 Speaker 2: quote sudden heartbreaking epidemic when she had a quote hand 203 00:11:26,400 --> 00:11:27,359 Speaker 2: in shaping. 204 00:11:27,000 --> 00:11:32,160 Speaker 3: It Ah, and this apparently rattled Oprah because Oprah responded 205 00:11:33,280 --> 00:11:35,520 Speaker 3: she said in a comment, happy to have a conversation 206 00:11:35,640 --> 00:11:37,680 Speaker 3: about it, but not on a real We'll have my 207 00:11:37,920 --> 00:11:39,880 Speaker 3: producer contact you if you're interested. 208 00:11:41,240 --> 00:11:45,800 Speaker 2: Oprah doesn't comment. Yeah, she never has to. So she 209 00:11:46,960 --> 00:11:49,800 Speaker 2: really felt that one because she does. She does have 210 00:11:49,800 --> 00:11:52,439 Speaker 2: a whole history her mom was not great for her 211 00:11:52,640 --> 00:11:54,640 Speaker 2: and really abusive, and she just had it, had enough, 212 00:11:55,440 --> 00:11:57,360 Speaker 2: and so she went no contact essentially. I don't think 213 00:11:57,440 --> 00:11:59,880 Speaker 2: it was called no contact obviously at that point in time, 214 00:12:00,360 --> 00:12:03,320 Speaker 2: but like she kind of shaped that. So this creator, 215 00:12:03,320 --> 00:12:07,360 Speaker 2: this coach was like a, uh, you are grifting at 216 00:12:07,360 --> 00:12:09,600 Speaker 2: this point. You created this, and now you wanted to 217 00:12:09,600 --> 00:12:13,200 Speaker 2: ask about this, which Oprah's influence into what we see 218 00:12:13,200 --> 00:12:18,920 Speaker 2: today is alarming. That's a whole different conversation, but I 219 00:12:18,920 --> 00:12:22,160 Speaker 2: thought that was super interesting in that and the question 220 00:12:22,320 --> 00:12:24,920 Speaker 2: is a much bigger when we talk about childhood trauma 221 00:12:25,000 --> 00:12:30,600 Speaker 2: and family responsibility, and it's interesting turn of like you're 222 00:12:30,679 --> 00:12:34,000 Speaker 2: going to regret this and the such that that kind 223 00:12:34,000 --> 00:12:35,760 Speaker 2: of conversation. If you do this, if you can't like 224 00:12:35,840 --> 00:12:38,040 Speaker 2: close no content, you're going to regret things. You're not 225 00:12:38,080 --> 00:12:39,480 Speaker 2: going to make things up, You're going to kind of 226 00:12:39,480 --> 00:12:43,320 Speaker 2: that whole forgiving And we've talked about this someone who's dying, 227 00:12:43,360 --> 00:12:45,719 Speaker 2: like do they deserve that forgiveness? Are you supposed to? 228 00:12:45,800 --> 00:12:48,280 Speaker 2: Are you all these things? It's kind of that same 229 00:12:48,360 --> 00:12:51,959 Speaker 2: look in psychology today had some thoughts too, like they 230 00:12:52,000 --> 00:12:55,560 Speaker 2: were very ready to go. So the article was in 231 00:12:55,600 --> 00:12:58,760 Speaker 2: response to the Oprah episode like she the counselor who 232 00:12:58,800 --> 00:13:02,000 Speaker 2: was a licensed social worker, talked about this, and she 233 00:13:02,080 --> 00:13:05,240 Speaker 2: writes this, also, it's easy to forget that our parents 234 00:13:05,280 --> 00:13:08,640 Speaker 2: are people too. People make mistakes. We are not born 235 00:13:08,679 --> 00:13:11,280 Speaker 2: with a gene for being a good parent. Show me 236 00:13:11,320 --> 00:13:13,480 Speaker 2: a self centered parent, and I'll show you someone who 237 00:13:13,520 --> 00:13:16,440 Speaker 2: probably didn't have great role models or lots of warm 238 00:13:16,520 --> 00:13:20,680 Speaker 2: nurturing either. Naturally, this doesn't excuse herful behaviors. Nothing does. 239 00:13:20,840 --> 00:13:23,480 Speaker 2: But when one's lens is compassionate and combined with the 240 00:13:23,520 --> 00:13:27,880 Speaker 2: toolkit of navigating really really challenging conversations, there's truly a 241 00:13:27,920 --> 00:13:32,720 Speaker 2: possibility for change. Relationships can improve over time, with work 242 00:13:32,760 --> 00:13:37,000 Speaker 2: and sometimes with help Encouraging complete withdrawal from relationships leads 243 00:13:37,040 --> 00:13:42,040 Speaker 2: to nothingness, and nothingness leads to nothing changing. Again, this 244 00:13:42,120 --> 00:13:44,920 Speaker 2: comes back into the whole like we're going back to 245 00:13:46,040 --> 00:13:48,800 Speaker 2: why won't you give them a chance? You have to 246 00:13:48,840 --> 00:13:53,439 Speaker 2: help them change, putting the responsibility back on the children, 247 00:13:53,800 --> 00:13:56,080 Speaker 2: which we've seen too much of. We've talked about this 248 00:13:56,360 --> 00:13:59,559 Speaker 2: without Prunification episodes. We've talked about this with any of 249 00:13:59,600 --> 00:14:01,880 Speaker 2: the trauma episodes. I'm sure Kristen and Caroline talked about 250 00:14:01,880 --> 00:14:05,600 Speaker 2: them in the narcissist episodes that they've had before. There's 251 00:14:05,600 --> 00:14:07,880 Speaker 2: a lot to be said when it's like, but if 252 00:14:07,880 --> 00:14:13,559 Speaker 2: they don't change and the outcome is just continue pain, 253 00:14:15,440 --> 00:14:16,599 Speaker 2: what does that look like? 254 00:14:17,400 --> 00:14:20,800 Speaker 1: I think most people don't go no contact after like 255 00:14:20,920 --> 00:14:21,880 Speaker 1: one instance. 256 00:14:22,080 --> 00:14:22,640 Speaker 2: Exactly. 257 00:14:23,280 --> 00:14:27,360 Speaker 1: It is a lot and you've probably spoken about it 258 00:14:28,520 --> 00:14:31,960 Speaker 1: and it still goes on. So it's not like you're 259 00:14:32,000 --> 00:14:36,320 Speaker 1: being a fragile, delicate Oh they've hurt my feelings this 260 00:14:36,400 --> 00:14:40,720 Speaker 1: work time, they didn't give me one to continual behavior 261 00:14:41,680 --> 00:14:42,240 Speaker 1: that hurts you. 262 00:14:42,520 --> 00:14:46,840 Speaker 2: We have situations where divorce parents may have some things 263 00:14:46,920 --> 00:14:49,280 Speaker 2: up and like like what are these things? Like there's 264 00:14:49,320 --> 00:14:52,120 Speaker 2: there can be manipulation and things and circumstances that we 265 00:14:52,120 --> 00:14:55,080 Speaker 2: don't always know, but absolutely one hundred between by an 266 00:14:55,120 --> 00:15:00,600 Speaker 2: adult child who is probably twenty thirty forties who finally 267 00:15:00,600 --> 00:15:04,600 Speaker 2: decide they cannot do this anymore. This has been years 268 00:15:04,600 --> 00:15:07,920 Speaker 2: of something, This has been years of reasoning, and finally 269 00:15:07,960 --> 00:15:10,400 Speaker 2: doing so takes a lot more strength because oftentimes that 270 00:15:10,400 --> 00:15:13,280 Speaker 2: means you've been cut off by a whole section of yourself. 271 00:15:13,320 --> 00:15:17,560 Speaker 2: Like that's painful to lose. Even when we talk about 272 00:15:17,600 --> 00:15:21,800 Speaker 2: like traumatized abused victims, child abused victims I have seen 273 00:15:22,080 --> 00:15:23,800 Speaker 2: are more likely to try to go back to their 274 00:15:23,800 --> 00:15:26,520 Speaker 2: parents and try to leave, and they will defend their 275 00:15:26,560 --> 00:15:29,720 Speaker 2: parents to no end. I have seen them. I have 276 00:15:29,880 --> 00:15:32,000 Speaker 2: seen these cases. I have worked these cases where they 277 00:15:32,040 --> 00:15:36,080 Speaker 2: will blatantly lie to my face because they don't want 278 00:15:36,120 --> 00:15:39,000 Speaker 2: to get their parents in trouble, even though I see 279 00:15:39,040 --> 00:15:41,600 Speaker 2: the bruises all over them, Like I have had cases 280 00:15:41,720 --> 00:15:44,920 Speaker 2: where they have giant markings and I ask how this 281 00:15:45,160 --> 00:15:47,400 Speaker 2: happened and they will full out light to me to 282 00:15:47,440 --> 00:15:50,480 Speaker 2: protect their parents. So for them to get to be adults, 283 00:15:50,480 --> 00:15:55,320 Speaker 2: to realize this situation is bad. It's like this, and 284 00:15:55,360 --> 00:15:57,440 Speaker 2: I know people are going to be like, this is 285 00:15:57,480 --> 00:16:03,600 Speaker 2: an extreme case, not everyone, but emotional abuse psychological abuse 286 00:16:03,640 --> 00:16:06,960 Speaker 2: also very much exists, using children like they're your best 287 00:16:06,960 --> 00:16:09,240 Speaker 2: friends instead of seeing them as children, using them as 288 00:16:09,280 --> 00:16:12,600 Speaker 2: their conversational best friend that you need to talk crap 289 00:16:12,640 --> 00:16:17,440 Speaker 2: about your husband, their father or like or you know 290 00:16:17,800 --> 00:16:23,720 Speaker 2: their wife, whatever whatnot. It causes damage. Expecting to have 291 00:16:23,920 --> 00:16:26,480 Speaker 2: the oldest child take care of all the children and 292 00:16:26,560 --> 00:16:29,480 Speaker 2: I know whomen again, especially when we come to like mothers. 293 00:16:29,640 --> 00:16:32,120 Speaker 2: They do the best they can, but then there's level 294 00:16:32,200 --> 00:16:36,880 Speaker 2: of like not giving compassion to the child as well. 295 00:16:37,000 --> 00:16:41,880 Speaker 2: That is exhausting. And I am someone who has not 296 00:16:41,920 --> 00:16:44,400 Speaker 2: gone through this as an adopted child. I feel like 297 00:16:44,440 --> 00:16:47,040 Speaker 2: I have a really good relationship outside of the politics, 298 00:16:47,040 --> 00:16:49,000 Speaker 2: and when we get into those fights, we get into 299 00:16:49,040 --> 00:16:51,520 Speaker 2: those fights because when it comes to humanity, I'm going 300 00:16:51,560 --> 00:16:53,840 Speaker 2: to stick up for humanity, Like this is the fight 301 00:16:54,000 --> 00:16:56,040 Speaker 2: I will always have. And they know this. They have 302 00:16:56,120 --> 00:16:59,360 Speaker 2: done really well and making sure that it's not brought up. 303 00:17:00,200 --> 00:17:02,600 Speaker 2: Don't talk about it, but they understand where I stand 304 00:17:02,920 --> 00:17:05,920 Speaker 2: and they understand my red lines. We are still good, 305 00:17:05,960 --> 00:17:07,440 Speaker 2: you know what I mean. Like they are good people, 306 00:17:07,440 --> 00:17:09,720 Speaker 2: and I would never go non contact at this time. 307 00:17:09,760 --> 00:17:12,159 Speaker 2: There's nothing in my life that tells me that I 308 00:17:12,359 --> 00:17:16,359 Speaker 2: need to. But I can absolutely see where people have to. 309 00:17:18,400 --> 00:17:22,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, if a relationship is just hurting you, 310 00:17:23,000 --> 00:17:29,119 Speaker 1: it does feel I get that. Sometimes we've been taught 311 00:17:29,440 --> 00:17:32,600 Speaker 1: that that's a failure. But I do think if a 312 00:17:32,640 --> 00:17:35,720 Speaker 1: relationship is just hurting you, I'm much more of a 313 00:17:35,840 --> 00:17:39,760 Speaker 1: found family kind of person myself. Exactly. Find people that 314 00:17:40,359 --> 00:17:44,119 Speaker 1: support you and take care of you, and you support 315 00:17:44,200 --> 00:17:46,639 Speaker 1: them and take care of them and write that's it. 316 00:17:46,840 --> 00:17:50,120 Speaker 1: I just think we've been taught to think that's that's 317 00:17:50,160 --> 00:17:52,840 Speaker 1: a failure, just like women were taught divorce was a failure. 318 00:17:52,920 --> 00:17:56,840 Speaker 1: And I sometimes you have to leave a relationship. 319 00:17:56,200 --> 00:18:10,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, as you do. Interestingly, and I used that word 320 00:18:10,880 --> 00:18:15,159 Speaker 2: a lot. Another TikTok creator named Jasmine Partita, and I 321 00:18:15,200 --> 00:18:19,520 Speaker 2: think her site is Jasmine Partita's strategy said this as 322 00:18:19,600 --> 00:18:22,600 Speaker 2: to why they think all of this content is coming up, 323 00:18:23,040 --> 00:18:25,920 Speaker 2: And it's based on the filial law that is required 324 00:18:26,160 --> 00:18:30,879 Speaker 2: for half the country, including state of Georgia, which and 325 00:18:30,960 --> 00:18:33,360 Speaker 2: this is what that is explained by trust and will 326 00:18:33,400 --> 00:18:37,720 Speaker 2: dot com. Filial responsibility is a legal concept in which 327 00:18:37,760 --> 00:18:42,199 Speaker 2: an adult child is financially responsible for their parents unpaid 328 00:18:42,320 --> 00:18:47,080 Speaker 2: healthcare costs. Not all states have filial responsibility laws, and 329 00:18:47,119 --> 00:18:50,720 Speaker 2: not all families are liable. So in this they talk 330 00:18:50,760 --> 00:18:54,239 Speaker 2: about what it means. In short, an individual could have 331 00:18:54,400 --> 00:18:57,320 Speaker 2: falilal responsibility if they have the means to pay for 332 00:18:57,359 --> 00:19:01,200 Speaker 2: their parents unpaid long term case bill when their parents 333 00:19:01,240 --> 00:19:03,439 Speaker 2: are not covered by Medicaid, but do not have the 334 00:19:03,480 --> 00:19:10,240 Speaker 2: financial means to pay for them. Also, seemingly some places 335 00:19:10,280 --> 00:19:12,199 Speaker 2: it doesn't matter if you can, if you're able to 336 00:19:12,680 --> 00:19:15,440 Speaker 2: afford it, you're still given the bill. 337 00:19:16,920 --> 00:19:20,600 Speaker 1: Yes, and kind of related, there's been a lot of 338 00:19:20,640 --> 00:19:24,720 Speaker 1: talk recently about because we got kind of this like 339 00:19:24,760 --> 00:19:31,440 Speaker 1: boomer generation who's all aging, and that the idea has been, oh, 340 00:19:31,480 --> 00:19:35,160 Speaker 1: you'll inherit their house and everything, but inheriting the house 341 00:19:35,200 --> 00:19:39,199 Speaker 1: actually comes with a lot of debt, like often a 342 00:19:39,200 --> 00:19:41,600 Speaker 1: lot of debt, a lot of a lot of people 343 00:19:41,680 --> 00:19:43,960 Speaker 1: don't want to move into that house, so you got 344 00:19:43,960 --> 00:19:48,239 Speaker 1: to sell the house, you got to find like it is. 345 00:19:48,640 --> 00:19:50,320 Speaker 1: That was one of my first thoughts when you were 346 00:19:50,359 --> 00:19:53,800 Speaker 1: talking about these kind of older people, being like, don't 347 00:19:53,800 --> 00:19:58,080 Speaker 1: cut off contact with your family kids is because you know, 348 00:19:58,240 --> 00:20:00,280 Speaker 1: you don't have the If you don't have a kids, 349 00:20:00,480 --> 00:20:02,159 Speaker 1: who's going to take care of you and who's going 350 00:20:02,240 --> 00:20:03,919 Speaker 1: to take care of the house and who's gonna do 351 00:20:03,960 --> 00:20:08,199 Speaker 1: all that stuff? Just a very like dark way to 352 00:20:08,200 --> 00:20:10,040 Speaker 1: think about it, But it is, It's true. It's the 353 00:20:10,040 --> 00:20:11,040 Speaker 1: reality we live in. 354 00:20:11,200 --> 00:20:13,800 Speaker 2: You right well, And this is again maybe an underlying 355 00:20:13,840 --> 00:20:17,560 Speaker 2: point of how the country is cutting down Medicaid coverage completely, 356 00:20:17,600 --> 00:20:21,880 Speaker 2: like if not absolutely, and many places apparently you can 357 00:20:21,920 --> 00:20:24,639 Speaker 2: be jilled for not being able to for some of 358 00:20:24,640 --> 00:20:27,439 Speaker 2: these things. I saw a couple of articles where ninety 359 00:20:27,560 --> 00:20:31,720 Speaker 2: like one man was sued for ninety three thousand dollars 360 00:20:31,760 --> 00:20:35,240 Speaker 2: for a woman who went into nursing homes that he 361 00:20:35,280 --> 00:20:37,520 Speaker 2: had nothing to do with. He did not sign any papers. 362 00:20:37,640 --> 00:20:42,560 Speaker 2: I think he had cut off contact. Within that video, 363 00:20:42,640 --> 00:20:44,879 Speaker 2: I had people, I saw people commenting. One person was 364 00:20:44,920 --> 00:20:48,520 Speaker 2: talking about, my father was an addict. He left me. 365 00:20:48,640 --> 00:20:51,040 Speaker 2: I was in the system, and I am now under 366 00:20:51,119 --> 00:20:53,280 Speaker 2: him for some of the things that he had gotten 367 00:20:53,320 --> 00:20:57,520 Speaker 2: for charges, an OH, restitution for like so many like 368 00:20:57,680 --> 00:21:00,520 Speaker 2: different levels of like what is happening? And so this 369 00:21:00,600 --> 00:21:03,560 Speaker 2: conversation is this older generation is kind of freaking out 370 00:21:03,640 --> 00:21:06,760 Speaker 2: a little bit and saying, please, don't have them cut 371 00:21:06,840 --> 00:21:09,040 Speaker 2: us off, because who's going to take over and take 372 00:21:09,040 --> 00:21:11,480 Speaker 2: these responsibilities? Also, who's going to take care of us? Also, 373 00:21:11,480 --> 00:21:13,679 Speaker 2: who's going to look after us all these things? Is 374 00:21:13,720 --> 00:21:16,120 Speaker 2: it a government ploy? Because also we know, like we 375 00:21:16,119 --> 00:21:18,320 Speaker 2: were talking about the property Trump tried to sign, I 376 00:21:18,320 --> 00:21:20,879 Speaker 2: don't know if it was successful, in which if you 377 00:21:21,000 --> 00:21:24,400 Speaker 2: cannot pay the property tax within a certain short term 378 00:21:24,760 --> 00:21:26,840 Speaker 2: for the inheritance of a billion, then they can take 379 00:21:26,880 --> 00:21:31,240 Speaker 2: it without any payment. They just take it. So government 380 00:21:31,320 --> 00:21:33,720 Speaker 2: can take land. It's like seizing of land for you 381 00:21:33,800 --> 00:21:35,840 Speaker 2: not being able to pay like fifty thousand dollars worth 382 00:21:35,880 --> 00:21:40,520 Speaker 2: of taxes for land, which is obscene in itself. There's 383 00:21:40,600 --> 00:21:43,920 Speaker 2: a lot of conversation in this what is the reasoning, 384 00:21:44,040 --> 00:21:47,399 Speaker 2: what is the background? Who is what is the motivation? Again, 385 00:21:48,160 --> 00:21:50,679 Speaker 2: I did not watch all of the Oprah ones, but 386 00:21:50,800 --> 00:21:54,400 Speaker 2: she at least had kind of a two sided conversation 387 00:21:55,720 --> 00:21:59,280 Speaker 2: in this as where mel Robbins seems to really want 388 00:21:59,320 --> 00:22:02,439 Speaker 2: to push this, Well, they're never gonna change, so you 389 00:22:02,600 --> 00:22:05,199 Speaker 2: just need to accept them haha, and we're like, or 390 00:22:05,800 --> 00:22:10,919 Speaker 2: we cut them off. Yeah, yeah, I don't have to 391 00:22:10,960 --> 00:22:14,199 Speaker 2: forget them. I can move on. There was someone and 392 00:22:14,280 --> 00:22:19,480 Speaker 2: I don't know if she was siding with the patients 393 00:22:19,480 --> 00:22:22,760 Speaker 2: who are dying or the family, because I've seen different 394 00:22:22,800 --> 00:22:26,959 Speaker 2: people have like hospice nurses who talk about how they've 395 00:22:27,080 --> 00:22:30,160 Speaker 2: had to make contact with their family members of these 396 00:22:30,240 --> 00:22:35,680 Speaker 2: dying patients, and her realizing these children do not owe 397 00:22:36,040 --> 00:22:38,399 Speaker 2: this dying patient anything, and I have to remember that 398 00:22:38,440 --> 00:22:40,440 Speaker 2: I can't take that personally. Even if they are good 399 00:22:40,480 --> 00:22:42,879 Speaker 2: to me, they did something to them that to the 400 00:22:42,920 --> 00:22:45,560 Speaker 2: family members is unforgivable and I have to let that 401 00:22:45,600 --> 00:22:48,600 Speaker 2: be and I have to accept their wishes as much 402 00:22:48,600 --> 00:22:51,240 Speaker 2: as my dying patient. Like it was this conversation in 403 00:22:51,280 --> 00:22:53,879 Speaker 2: this one the converse. She was talking about how seeing 404 00:22:53,920 --> 00:22:56,800 Speaker 2: that I think like them leaving letters and whether or 405 00:22:56,840 --> 00:22:58,639 Speaker 2: not they should be able to send those letters or not. 406 00:22:59,040 --> 00:23:01,240 Speaker 2: And I'm like, oh, that's a feel like that could 407 00:23:01,240 --> 00:23:04,359 Speaker 2: be real ugly if they don't have contact and you're 408 00:23:04,400 --> 00:23:07,840 Speaker 2: forcing them to read a letter that they are they 409 00:23:07,840 --> 00:23:11,160 Speaker 2: can't ever get closure from. That seems evil. 410 00:23:13,160 --> 00:23:16,639 Speaker 1: My dad did Dad? Oh no, he didn't. We weren't 411 00:23:16,680 --> 00:23:20,840 Speaker 1: no contact, but we were very uh contact. We were 412 00:23:20,880 --> 00:23:24,440 Speaker 1: a very strange relationship. And he left me a letter. 413 00:23:25,359 --> 00:23:27,960 Speaker 1: I did not read it for years. 414 00:23:28,119 --> 00:23:29,520 Speaker 2: That's right, Oh, that's right. 415 00:23:29,800 --> 00:23:31,919 Speaker 1: And then I had a friend read it for me 416 00:23:32,200 --> 00:23:36,080 Speaker 1: just to like give give me the quick notes about it. Yeah, 417 00:23:36,160 --> 00:23:39,560 Speaker 1: and it was fine. It was not anything good, It 418 00:23:39,560 --> 00:23:41,879 Speaker 1: wasn't anything major. But he did do that. But I 419 00:23:41,880 --> 00:23:43,679 Speaker 1: think that's also when you have a friend who you 420 00:23:43,680 --> 00:23:47,399 Speaker 1: can be like, please read this and he's very traumatic 421 00:23:47,840 --> 00:23:53,520 Speaker 1: letter and it was long, it was so many pages. 422 00:23:53,960 --> 00:23:55,919 Speaker 1: But she did it. She and I still haven't read it. 423 00:23:55,960 --> 00:23:58,960 Speaker 1: I took her description. I was like, got it. 424 00:23:59,119 --> 00:24:01,240 Speaker 2: All right, amazing. I mean, that's a great way to 425 00:24:01,280 --> 00:24:05,879 Speaker 2: do it. Also with the therapist. But yeah, so there's 426 00:24:05,920 --> 00:24:09,280 Speaker 2: a lot to be said in this conversation and to 427 00:24:09,800 --> 00:24:11,600 Speaker 2: our people out there. We've talked about this again, like 428 00:24:11,640 --> 00:24:15,320 Speaker 2: I've talked about how I've had to avoid some situations 429 00:24:15,359 --> 00:24:19,160 Speaker 2: and really being very like candidate in that I cannot 430 00:24:19,200 --> 00:24:22,240 Speaker 2: deal with this. This is my livelihood, and I feel 431 00:24:22,320 --> 00:24:25,919 Speaker 2: like some of my family does not respect that. I 432 00:24:25,960 --> 00:24:28,280 Speaker 2: think we've become better in these terms, and I think 433 00:24:28,400 --> 00:24:30,320 Speaker 2: they had any You and I talked about the fact 434 00:24:30,320 --> 00:24:32,760 Speaker 2: that they're starting to regret some decisions they've made as 435 00:24:32,800 --> 00:24:37,879 Speaker 2: of late, which I love seeing. But with that respecting 436 00:24:37,920 --> 00:24:40,760 Speaker 2: that you have boundaries. And I don't know why we're backtracking, 437 00:24:40,800 --> 00:24:43,359 Speaker 2: and I hope we're not. I hope the backlash to 438 00:24:43,560 --> 00:24:48,919 Speaker 2: these creators or to this episodes and content is a 439 00:24:48,960 --> 00:24:52,639 Speaker 2: good sign that we don't backtrack in that. Yeah, you 440 00:24:52,880 --> 00:24:57,520 Speaker 2: have the right to have happiness and freedom as well, 441 00:24:57,560 --> 00:25:00,639 Speaker 2: like that is something that's part of supposed to be 442 00:25:00,640 --> 00:25:07,440 Speaker 2: our constitutional rights, you know, but we know that's been 443 00:25:07,520 --> 00:25:11,240 Speaker 2: changing to anyway. But with that, to find your peace 444 00:25:11,560 --> 00:25:13,720 Speaker 2: as well, and to do what you need to do, 445 00:25:13,760 --> 00:25:16,360 Speaker 2: whether it's to be with your found family, whether it's 446 00:25:16,440 --> 00:25:18,959 Speaker 2: to be by yourself and let yourself do what you 447 00:25:19,000 --> 00:25:22,000 Speaker 2: need to do, or whether it is that you need 448 00:25:22,520 --> 00:25:24,960 Speaker 2: a conclusion and you do want to try to patch 449 00:25:24,960 --> 00:25:27,680 Speaker 2: things up. That's amazing that that is a great place 450 00:25:27,680 --> 00:25:29,760 Speaker 2: to be if you can get to that point and 451 00:25:29,760 --> 00:25:31,560 Speaker 2: if you're able to get to that point, but also 452 00:25:31,680 --> 00:25:34,879 Speaker 2: that you have the free will to do so, and 453 00:25:34,920 --> 00:25:37,600 Speaker 2: I hope that that comes in an understanding that you 454 00:25:37,720 --> 00:25:43,240 Speaker 2: do so for yourself and for you You need to do. 455 00:25:44,560 --> 00:25:48,800 Speaker 1: Yeah from a healthy place. And I also know that 456 00:25:48,800 --> 00:25:53,800 Speaker 1: this is very different in different cultures. So if you 457 00:25:54,880 --> 00:25:58,119 Speaker 1: have any thoughts on that or on this whole conversation, 458 00:25:59,200 --> 00:26:00,960 Speaker 1: please let us know. We I hope all of you 459 00:26:01,040 --> 00:26:04,040 Speaker 1: are doing as well as you can be in these 460 00:26:04,040 --> 00:26:07,680 Speaker 1: stressful times, and we would love to hear from you. 461 00:26:07,680 --> 00:26:09,720 Speaker 1: You can email us at Hello at stuff Iannever Told 462 00:26:09,720 --> 00:26:11,200 Speaker 1: You dot com. You can find us on Blue Sky 463 00:26:11,320 --> 00:26:13,720 Speaker 1: Mom Stuff podcast or on Instagram and TikTok at stuff 464 00:26:13,720 --> 00:26:15,879 Speaker 1: I've Never Told You. We're also on YouTube. We have 465 00:26:15,920 --> 00:26:18,360 Speaker 1: some new merchandise at Commonpiro and we have a book 466 00:26:18,400 --> 00:26:20,399 Speaker 1: that you can get wherever you get your books. Thanks 467 00:26:20,480 --> 00:26:23,159 Speaker 1: says too, our Sue of Bruce Castina exector brusin my 468 00:26:23,200 --> 00:26:26,199 Speaker 1: Introjutor Joey, thank you and thanks to you for listening. 469 00:26:26,280 --> 00:26:27,960 Speaker 1: Stuff I've Never Told You Dispriction by heart Radio. For 470 00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:29,520 Speaker 1: more podcasts from my heart Radio, you can check out 471 00:26:29,560 --> 00:26:31,560 Speaker 1: the heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen 472 00:26:31,560 --> 00:26:32,639 Speaker 1: to your favorite shows.