1 00:00:05,440 --> 00:00:10,879 Speaker 1: Welcome to Battleground, the podcast that celebrates the resilience and 2 00:00:10,960 --> 00:00:14,960 Speaker 1: fortitude of those who faced and overcome adversity. I'm your host, 3 00:00:14,960 --> 00:00:17,800 Speaker 1: Sean Parnell. I'm a combat veteran, I'm a best selling author, 4 00:00:17,920 --> 00:00:21,200 Speaker 1: and in this episode, I had the pleasure of speaking 5 00:00:21,239 --> 00:00:26,799 Speaker 1: with Clay Travis. Clay is a very prominent sports commentator. 6 00:00:26,880 --> 00:00:30,800 Speaker 1: He's a Fox News contributor, and he's the founder of OutKick, 7 00:00:31,080 --> 00:00:34,600 Speaker 1: which is a sports media company that challenges the status quo. 8 00:00:36,159 --> 00:00:40,120 Speaker 1: During our conversation, Clay shared his very personal journey from 9 00:00:40,280 --> 00:00:44,640 Speaker 1: switching political affiliations from Democrat to Republican know really Trump 10 00:00:44,840 --> 00:00:48,400 Speaker 1: was the very first Republican president that he ever voted for, 11 00:00:49,280 --> 00:00:53,159 Speaker 1: talked about becoming one of the leading voices in the 12 00:00:53,280 --> 00:00:57,000 Speaker 1: sports media landscape as well. We also talked about his 13 00:00:57,120 --> 00:01:00,280 Speaker 1: latest venture in depth OutKick, and the motivation behind behind 14 00:01:00,320 --> 00:01:03,080 Speaker 1: his work, which might surprise you a little bit, but 15 00:01:03,080 --> 00:01:07,360 Speaker 1: it's driven by his love for his family. In addition, 16 00:01:07,680 --> 00:01:12,280 Speaker 1: we delved into the issue of when sports became so polarized, 17 00:01:12,280 --> 00:01:14,920 Speaker 1: and of course, Clay offered his unique perspective on the 18 00:01:15,000 --> 00:01:18,600 Speaker 1: role of athletes and sports leagues and social and political 19 00:01:18,640 --> 00:01:21,760 Speaker 1: issues and how it has affected the industry as a whole, 20 00:01:22,000 --> 00:01:25,880 Speaker 1: especially as it pertains to ESPN. I thought it was 21 00:01:25,920 --> 00:01:30,200 Speaker 1: a thought provoking discussion, and I really think listeners will 22 00:01:30,240 --> 00:01:34,800 Speaker 1: appreciate Clay's insights. He's so smart, he's a pioneer and 23 00:01:34,840 --> 00:01:38,280 Speaker 1: everything he does. So sit back, relax, and join us 24 00:01:38,319 --> 00:01:42,959 Speaker 1: on Battleground as we explore Clay Travis's story and his 25 00:01:43,080 --> 00:01:49,160 Speaker 1: background and how he founded the media empire called OutKick. Unfortunately, 26 00:01:49,240 --> 00:01:52,800 Speaker 1: at the beginning of this episode, we had some audio 27 00:01:52,840 --> 00:01:56,160 Speaker 1: and video issues to some technical issues, and so rather 28 00:01:56,240 --> 00:02:01,640 Speaker 1: than subject you all to those horrible, horrible technical issues, 29 00:02:01,800 --> 00:02:04,040 Speaker 1: we're just gonna jump right into the episode, probably about 30 00:02:04,080 --> 00:02:07,400 Speaker 1: three or four minutes in. God bless you all. Never retreat, 31 00:02:07,640 --> 00:02:17,080 Speaker 1: never surrendered. Your question was looking forward to twenty twenty four, 32 00:02:17,720 --> 00:02:19,880 Speaker 1: what did Republicans have to do to change the game? 33 00:02:19,919 --> 00:02:23,440 Speaker 1: And what I was what I found so fascinating, Clay, 34 00:02:24,000 --> 00:02:27,120 Speaker 1: was reading up a little bit about your story prior 35 00:02:27,160 --> 00:02:29,560 Speaker 1: to you coming on the show. What I found so 36 00:02:29,680 --> 00:02:33,680 Speaker 1: interesting was that you weren't a traditional Republican now. In fact, 37 00:02:33,720 --> 00:02:36,200 Speaker 1: like for a long time you were voting Democrat. And 38 00:02:36,200 --> 00:02:38,280 Speaker 1: I think I read now on Wikpedia. So take it 39 00:02:38,320 --> 00:02:40,480 Speaker 1: with a grand assault, but like you didn't vote for 40 00:02:40,560 --> 00:02:43,880 Speaker 1: you didn't vote Republican until twenty twenty. And what I 41 00:02:44,280 --> 00:02:47,320 Speaker 1: wanted to ask you is that, like what made what 42 00:02:47,440 --> 00:02:50,839 Speaker 1: was the final straw that made you shift perspectives and 43 00:02:52,480 --> 00:02:54,160 Speaker 1: back Republican candidates? 44 00:02:54,520 --> 00:02:55,400 Speaker 2: I must be you. 45 00:02:55,400 --> 00:02:57,480 Speaker 1: I'm not saying you're back in all Republican candidates, but 46 00:02:57,600 --> 00:03:00,440 Speaker 1: it seems like when I took I'll tell you what 47 00:03:00,480 --> 00:03:03,160 Speaker 1: I saw, Clay and I when I was running for 48 00:03:03,200 --> 00:03:06,760 Speaker 1: Congress and shit hit the fan with COVID, and you 49 00:03:06,800 --> 00:03:10,320 Speaker 1: even had Republican governors like locking things down and closing 50 00:03:10,400 --> 00:03:15,840 Speaker 1: schools and businesses and allowing you know, antifund Black Lives 51 00:03:15,840 --> 00:03:18,520 Speaker 1: Matter to protest but not allowing people to go to church, 52 00:03:18,560 --> 00:03:20,960 Speaker 1: but allowing strip clubs to stay open. The whole thing 53 00:03:21,080 --> 00:03:23,240 Speaker 1: is a candidate where I had people coming to me 54 00:03:23,480 --> 00:03:26,960 Speaker 1: every single day saying, Sean, I can't afford to put 55 00:03:26,960 --> 00:03:29,920 Speaker 1: food on the table for my family. Sean, my paytech 56 00:03:29,960 --> 00:03:32,600 Speaker 1: protection program loan hasn't come through, Sean, what do I 57 00:03:32,639 --> 00:03:34,920 Speaker 1: do about paying the rent on my So it's just 58 00:03:34,960 --> 00:03:38,000 Speaker 1: like I first, I'm sad to say, like I I 59 00:03:39,200 --> 00:03:42,440 Speaker 1: first noticed you Clay was speaking out about COVID. Yeah, 60 00:03:42,480 --> 00:03:43,680 Speaker 1: and I have to say, you were one of the 61 00:03:43,720 --> 00:03:45,480 Speaker 1: few voices of reason out there. 62 00:03:45,840 --> 00:03:48,240 Speaker 2: Yeah. So I would say there were two big things 63 00:03:48,280 --> 00:03:51,000 Speaker 2: that happened for me that First of all, I don't 64 00:03:51,000 --> 00:03:53,920 Speaker 2: think I've changed. I think I was kind of a 65 00:03:53,960 --> 00:03:58,280 Speaker 2: middle of the road guy for my entire life, and 66 00:03:58,320 --> 00:04:02,960 Speaker 2: then Democrats went insane, and so I with someone who 67 00:04:03,000 --> 00:04:06,320 Speaker 2: was in the middle of the road, and then Democrats 68 00:04:06,360 --> 00:04:09,960 Speaker 2: went so far left that I really haven't moved at all. Right, Like, 69 00:04:10,000 --> 00:04:13,040 Speaker 2: I'm a First Amendment guy, I'm a marketplace of ideas guy. 70 00:04:13,120 --> 00:04:16,640 Speaker 2: I'm a logic guy. And so there were two things 71 00:04:16,680 --> 00:04:21,600 Speaker 2: in particular. One, the Brett Kavanaugh hearings to me, were 72 00:04:22,000 --> 00:04:25,920 Speaker 2: indefensible in the way that Democrats behaved as a part 73 00:04:25,960 --> 00:04:29,159 Speaker 2: of that investigation and as a part of that entire process. 74 00:04:29,880 --> 00:04:32,240 Speaker 2: But then to your point, Covid, remember I'm a sports 75 00:04:32,240 --> 00:04:37,560 Speaker 2: talk radio guy. So I'm just sitting down, you know, 76 00:04:37,680 --> 00:04:42,719 Speaker 2: every day sports shut down. And so for March, April, May, 77 00:04:42,839 --> 00:04:47,919 Speaker 2: June of twenty twenty, there's no sports going on, and 78 00:04:48,000 --> 00:04:51,120 Speaker 2: I'm looking at all the data and saying, there's no 79 00:04:51,240 --> 00:04:56,279 Speaker 2: way to justify shutting down sports. There's no way to 80 00:04:56,440 --> 00:04:59,600 Speaker 2: justify shutting down schools. And I was like, the only 81 00:04:59,600 --> 00:05:03,080 Speaker 2: guy out they're saying it, and so that's where it 82 00:05:03,120 --> 00:05:08,120 Speaker 2: all kind of took off for me. And frankly, I 83 00:05:08,240 --> 00:05:13,159 Speaker 2: just I can't believe that Democrats did what they did 84 00:05:13,360 --> 00:05:16,960 Speaker 2: with COVID, and that is what led me. Look, it 85 00:05:17,000 --> 00:05:21,000 Speaker 2: was a slow process, right because I've been reacting angrily 86 00:05:21,160 --> 00:05:26,520 Speaker 2: to the concept of identity politics and cancel culture for years, 87 00:05:26,880 --> 00:05:29,800 Speaker 2: but through the prism of sports, right, Like, Oh, I 88 00:05:29,839 --> 00:05:33,920 Speaker 2: don't think because some fifteen year old kid quoted rap 89 00:05:34,040 --> 00:05:37,480 Speaker 2: lyrics on Twitter, now he's famous because he's twenty four 90 00:05:37,520 --> 00:05:39,919 Speaker 2: and he's an athlete or whatever, that we should be 91 00:05:39,960 --> 00:05:43,400 Speaker 2: trying to cancel him, right, I don't think whatever your 92 00:05:43,440 --> 00:05:47,160 Speaker 2: opinion is in the world, Like I don't think the 93 00:05:47,240 --> 00:05:49,800 Speaker 2: Kaepernick thing kind of accelerated it in a big way 94 00:05:49,839 --> 00:05:53,280 Speaker 2: for me too, because what I've always loved about sports 95 00:05:53,360 --> 00:05:57,279 Speaker 2: is black, white, Asian, Hispanic, gay, straight like Democrat, Republican. 96 00:05:57,720 --> 00:06:00,440 Speaker 2: If you're sitting in a stadium or in a and 97 00:06:00,480 --> 00:06:03,680 Speaker 2: your team wins, you don't think about any of the 98 00:06:03,720 --> 00:06:06,919 Speaker 2: identity of the person around you other than you're a 99 00:06:06,960 --> 00:06:10,760 Speaker 2: similar tribe, right, like you're high fiving. I've loved sports 100 00:06:10,800 --> 00:06:13,640 Speaker 2: because whether you're the janitor or the neurosurgeon. You can 101 00:06:13,680 --> 00:06:17,080 Speaker 2: sit down in a hospital cafeteria and have a one 102 00:06:17,120 --> 00:06:21,200 Speaker 2: on one conversation where you're both on equal footing. And 103 00:06:21,240 --> 00:06:24,560 Speaker 2: they took that away. And I saw the way that 104 00:06:24,640 --> 00:06:28,600 Speaker 2: sports was becoming politics by any other name, and I 105 00:06:28,680 --> 00:06:33,120 Speaker 2: rejected and repudiated it. My last book was called Republicans 106 00:06:33,160 --> 00:06:36,320 Speaker 2: by Sneakers Too, which is a Michael Jordan quote about 107 00:06:36,360 --> 00:06:39,360 Speaker 2: why you didn't get involved in politics. And I saw 108 00:06:39,480 --> 00:06:43,320 Speaker 2: sports becoming incredibly political, and for a long time my 109 00:06:43,480 --> 00:06:45,200 Speaker 2: argument was like, man, I just think this is bad 110 00:06:45,240 --> 00:06:47,560 Speaker 2: business because you should be trying to apply to an 111 00:06:47,560 --> 00:06:52,479 Speaker 2: appeal to everyone. And then it slowly turned into well 112 00:06:52,520 --> 00:06:57,040 Speaker 2: if you have conservative opinions, and conservative was defined very broadly, 113 00:06:57,080 --> 00:07:00,200 Speaker 2: and I saw this running out kick. You know, is 114 00:07:00,240 --> 00:07:03,080 Speaker 2: this knife fight for the locust twenty five percent? I 115 00:07:03,080 --> 00:07:05,440 Speaker 2: mean you're seeing it play out right now, literally, on 116 00:07:05,480 --> 00:07:09,279 Speaker 2: this good Friday as we talk. There is an argument 117 00:07:09,720 --> 00:07:13,840 Speaker 2: that Title nine should be expanded, which the Biden administration 118 00:07:13,960 --> 00:07:17,880 Speaker 2: has bought into, to include men who identify as women, 119 00:07:18,280 --> 00:07:21,880 Speaker 2: and the absolutely sports should have to include men. Well, 120 00:07:21,880 --> 00:07:24,320 Speaker 2: men are bigger, stronger, and faster than women. Sewan, they're 121 00:07:24,360 --> 00:07:27,280 Speaker 2: going to dollars win every sport if we allow this 122 00:07:27,320 --> 00:07:30,080 Speaker 2: to occur, as we just saw with Leah Thomas, and 123 00:07:30,160 --> 00:07:33,840 Speaker 2: so that I got to speak out and it wasn't 124 00:07:33,880 --> 00:07:35,120 Speaker 2: just sports opinions anymore. 125 00:07:35,560 --> 00:07:38,480 Speaker 1: Well, I mean, god, I totally agree with everything you're saying. 126 00:07:38,520 --> 00:07:40,480 Speaker 1: And like, let me let me tell you, like I 127 00:07:40,600 --> 00:07:42,560 Speaker 1: used to, I'm a big sports guy tube and I've 128 00:07:42,600 --> 00:07:46,559 Speaker 1: played competitive sports my entire life. Wrestled, played baseball, played 129 00:07:46,560 --> 00:07:48,360 Speaker 1: ice hockey, and then joined the army and went to 130 00:07:48,360 --> 00:07:51,520 Speaker 1: fight in a platoon in Afghanistan, as you know. But 131 00:07:51,520 --> 00:07:56,880 Speaker 1: but I mean ESPN was I mean man as a 132 00:07:56,960 --> 00:07:58,920 Speaker 1: kid growing up, and that was born in nineteen eighty one, 133 00:07:58,960 --> 00:07:59,280 Speaker 1: but the. 134 00:07:59,360 --> 00:08:01,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm Sev're yes. 135 00:08:02,560 --> 00:08:05,520 Speaker 1: ESPN was on every day in my house. I mean 136 00:08:06,000 --> 00:08:09,600 Speaker 1: that's just what we did. And even some of the 137 00:08:09,640 --> 00:08:12,840 Speaker 1: anchors right, like they were iconic, Like we laughed and 138 00:08:12,960 --> 00:08:16,560 Speaker 1: joked around about them at school. They were the topic 139 00:08:16,600 --> 00:08:20,840 Speaker 1: of all of our conversations. And then slowly the network 140 00:08:20,960 --> 00:08:26,480 Speaker 1: changed and to now it seems like sports and I 141 00:08:26,480 --> 00:08:30,920 Speaker 1: think in a bad way now are so intertwined with politics. 142 00:08:31,120 --> 00:08:34,040 Speaker 1: But sports almost can't extricate itself because I love sports 143 00:08:34,040 --> 00:08:37,880 Speaker 1: for all the same reasons that you do. And here's 144 00:08:37,920 --> 00:08:39,600 Speaker 1: the thing, though, Clay, I've been thinking about this for 145 00:08:39,720 --> 00:08:43,360 Speaker 1: like about the past week, because it seemed like it started. 146 00:08:43,679 --> 00:08:48,280 Speaker 1: You know, Kaepernick takes a knee for the anthem. Republicans, Conservatives, 147 00:08:48,280 --> 00:08:51,240 Speaker 1: people that are pro America are like, what, that's crazy, 148 00:08:51,960 --> 00:08:55,040 Speaker 1: and then Trump weighs in and shit just completely hits 149 00:08:55,040 --> 00:08:59,040 Speaker 1: the fan. But as I thought about that more, they're like, okay, 150 00:08:59,080 --> 00:09:04,480 Speaker 1: so that that is undoubtedly true. Play, But what about 151 00:09:04,520 --> 00:09:08,880 Speaker 1: like Muhammad Ali, you know, Cassius Clay becoming Muhammad Ali, 152 00:09:09,320 --> 00:09:14,280 Speaker 1: you know, converting to Islam, protesting the Vietnam War, Like 153 00:09:15,120 --> 00:09:18,600 Speaker 1: he was very political back then, but something was different 154 00:09:18,679 --> 00:09:20,320 Speaker 1: and I haven't been able to put my finger on it. 155 00:09:21,040 --> 00:09:23,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, well, it's such a good point. I mean, I 156 00:09:23,320 --> 00:09:27,040 Speaker 2: think we're seeing an echo in many ways of the sixties. Right. 157 00:09:28,040 --> 00:09:33,199 Speaker 2: The difference, I would argue is so and I wrote, 158 00:09:33,200 --> 00:09:35,800 Speaker 2: I mean, really, I would encourage people love this conversation. 159 00:09:35,960 --> 00:09:39,679 Speaker 2: I spent so much time diving into it Ali in particular, 160 00:09:40,920 --> 00:09:44,120 Speaker 2: and analyzing the world as it as it existed. So 161 00:09:44,320 --> 00:09:47,560 Speaker 2: let me just tell you example. For Kaepernick, Kaebernick took 162 00:09:47,559 --> 00:09:52,520 Speaker 2: a knee to protest police violence against black people right. 163 00:09:52,920 --> 00:09:56,160 Speaker 2: He didn't take a knee to protest police violence. Now, 164 00:09:56,480 --> 00:09:58,960 Speaker 2: if he had taken a knee to protest police violence, 165 00:09:59,000 --> 00:10:03,640 Speaker 2: I still think would have been a errant move. But 166 00:10:03,800 --> 00:10:06,599 Speaker 2: Muhammad al Li protested the Vietnam War on behalf of 167 00:10:06,640 --> 00:10:12,480 Speaker 2: everybody right. And there is a difference between an individual 168 00:10:12,559 --> 00:10:17,280 Speaker 2: boxer right who stands for himself entirely, and a player 169 00:10:17,679 --> 00:10:21,360 Speaker 2: in uniform at work protesting. And so you know, I 170 00:10:21,960 --> 00:10:24,559 Speaker 2: would always take it outside of the moment of Kaepernick, 171 00:10:24,600 --> 00:10:26,920 Speaker 2: and I would say, Okay, if you walked into McDonald's 172 00:10:26,960 --> 00:10:28,679 Speaker 2: and you walked up and you said, hey, I want 173 00:10:28,679 --> 00:10:31,839 Speaker 2: a big Mac, and the big and the McDonald's clerk said, 174 00:10:32,280 --> 00:10:35,560 Speaker 2: I believe meat is murder, it wouldn't be crazy for 175 00:10:35,679 --> 00:10:38,720 Speaker 2: McDonald's to fire that person, right, Like, in fact, you 176 00:10:38,760 --> 00:10:41,280 Speaker 2: would say they need to do Yes, you went in 177 00:10:41,280 --> 00:10:44,520 Speaker 2: to Walmart. If you went into Walmart and you were 178 00:10:44,600 --> 00:10:48,400 Speaker 2: checking out, and on the way as checking out, the 179 00:10:48,480 --> 00:10:52,840 Speaker 2: clerk said, hey, just so you know abortion is murder, 180 00:10:54,040 --> 00:10:55,480 Speaker 2: you would be like, hey, I you know, I just 181 00:10:55,559 --> 00:10:57,720 Speaker 2: kind of want to buy my Walmart gear. I don't 182 00:10:57,720 --> 00:11:00,760 Speaker 2: need to have a work in politics from every Walmart 183 00:11:00,760 --> 00:11:04,240 Speaker 2: clerk who walks by and that's understandable. Now, if you 184 00:11:04,320 --> 00:11:07,120 Speaker 2: want to drive into Walmart in your car and you've 185 00:11:07,120 --> 00:11:09,480 Speaker 2: got bumper stickers on it, or if you want to 186 00:11:09,480 --> 00:11:11,920 Speaker 2: pull in to McDonald's and you've got bumper stickers on 187 00:11:11,960 --> 00:11:15,640 Speaker 2: your car, you have the right outside of work, outside 188 00:11:15,679 --> 00:11:18,280 Speaker 2: of uniform, to advocate for anything that you want to. 189 00:11:18,800 --> 00:11:21,640 Speaker 2: And so what would really put people's kind of brains 190 00:11:21,640 --> 00:11:24,880 Speaker 2: in a blender is I would say, Okay, what if, 191 00:11:24,960 --> 00:11:29,839 Speaker 2: instead of protesting police murders taking a knee during the 192 00:11:29,920 --> 00:11:32,439 Speaker 2: national anthem? What do you think people would have said 193 00:11:32,520 --> 00:11:35,559 Speaker 2: if Colin Kaepernick had come out and said, Hey, I'm 194 00:11:35,559 --> 00:11:37,960 Speaker 2: going to take a knee during the national anthem because 195 00:11:38,000 --> 00:11:42,199 Speaker 2: I think the Supreme Court incorrectly decided that marriage should 196 00:11:42,240 --> 00:11:46,199 Speaker 2: be legal for gay people. The same people who are screaming, Oh, 197 00:11:46,240 --> 00:11:49,839 Speaker 2: what a hero Kaepernick is would be screaming, this guy's 198 00:11:49,880 --> 00:11:52,040 Speaker 2: got to be fired. He can't represent the San Francisco 199 00:11:52,160 --> 00:11:55,280 Speaker 2: forty nine ers anymore. And really, what I'm getting at 200 00:11:55,400 --> 00:11:59,760 Speaker 2: is it's bad business for any politic, political opinion of 201 00:11:59,800 --> 00:12:04,280 Speaker 2: any stripe or persuasion to be brought to work in 202 00:12:04,640 --> 00:12:09,840 Speaker 2: uniform at work, right, And so that to me is important, 203 00:12:09,880 --> 00:12:13,319 Speaker 2: and it's also important to recognize people were not defending 204 00:12:13,440 --> 00:12:15,800 Speaker 2: Colin Kaepernick's free speech rights because, by the way, the 205 00:12:15,840 --> 00:12:18,439 Speaker 2: government wasn't doing anything to take away his free speech rights. 206 00:12:19,120 --> 00:12:23,079 Speaker 2: They were specifically defending speech that they agreed with. And 207 00:12:23,480 --> 00:12:27,200 Speaker 2: I'll also say Colin Kaepernick also aired he's just not 208 00:12:27,320 --> 00:12:30,560 Speaker 2: good enough to be able to do that. Right if 209 00:12:30,600 --> 00:12:35,680 Speaker 2: Aaron Rodgers, Aaron Rodgers had taken a knee and said, hey, 210 00:12:35,720 --> 00:12:40,160 Speaker 2: I think we're unfairly treating ISIS during the national anthem, 211 00:12:40,920 --> 00:12:43,200 Speaker 2: even though that, you know, I wouldn't. 212 00:12:42,840 --> 00:12:44,120 Speaker 1: Have agreed with. 213 00:12:44,559 --> 00:12:46,520 Speaker 2: PEMA would have said, yeah, but he's the top five 214 00:12:46,600 --> 00:12:50,720 Speaker 2: quarterback in the league, and doubt that. Deshaun Watson just 215 00:12:50,880 --> 00:12:54,760 Speaker 2: got the biggest contract in the history of football and 216 00:12:54,800 --> 00:12:59,400 Speaker 2: he's accused of sexually assaulting thirty different women. Now they 217 00:12:59,400 --> 00:13:02,640 Speaker 2: didn't bring caribital charges, but that's the sign I always 218 00:13:02,679 --> 00:13:05,760 Speaker 2: like to say sports, so long as your talent exceeds 219 00:13:05,760 --> 00:13:09,840 Speaker 2: your problems, you'll always be employed. Colin Kaepernick's problem was 220 00:13:09,840 --> 00:13:13,360 Speaker 2: he wasn't that good and his talent did not exceed 221 00:13:13,440 --> 00:13:16,640 Speaker 2: the controversy that he created. You know, there are a 222 00:13:16,679 --> 00:13:19,680 Speaker 2: lot of guys out there that their talent exceeeds to 223 00:13:19,720 --> 00:13:23,640 Speaker 2: I mean, if Antonio Brown's been charged with basically everything 224 00:13:23,720 --> 00:13:27,120 Speaker 2: under the sun, and until he literally walked off the 225 00:13:27,120 --> 00:13:29,839 Speaker 2: field in the middle of a game with a c 226 00:13:30,800 --> 00:13:33,120 Speaker 2: and grew up the peace sign on his way out, 227 00:13:33,200 --> 00:13:36,640 Speaker 2: there were still teams that were willing clamor an opportunity 228 00:13:36,679 --> 00:13:37,920 Speaker 2: to play for them. 229 00:13:38,559 --> 00:13:41,320 Speaker 1: It's such a great point. And I mean, and you know, 230 00:13:41,600 --> 00:13:46,480 Speaker 1: you talk about like the whole like politics being intertwined 231 00:13:46,559 --> 00:13:51,440 Speaker 1: with sports and what happened to ESPN if it just 232 00:13:51,640 --> 00:13:55,079 Speaker 1: bothers me because I feel like they're just pushing this 233 00:13:55,520 --> 00:13:59,640 Speaker 1: political bullshit on their audience that doesn't want it, that 234 00:13:59,800 --> 00:14:02,079 Speaker 1: just wants to be able to watch a damn game 235 00:14:02,160 --> 00:14:06,000 Speaker 1: without having that bullshit force down their throats. And frankly, like, 236 00:14:06,040 --> 00:14:09,360 Speaker 1: if you're an anchor, and I would probably say ninety 237 00:14:09,440 --> 00:14:12,720 Speaker 1: nine percent of the anchors at ESPN would parrot this stuff. 238 00:14:12,960 --> 00:14:16,199 Speaker 1: But if you're an anchor that believes that men should 239 00:14:16,200 --> 00:14:18,800 Speaker 1: be competing in women's sports, then I don't really give 240 00:14:18,840 --> 00:14:21,560 Speaker 1: a shit about any of your sports opinions, and so. 241 00:14:22,040 --> 00:14:24,400 Speaker 2: Is that you shouldn't be in sports right because or 242 00:14:24,440 --> 00:14:28,960 Speaker 2: completely agree the meritocracy. 243 00:14:27,600 --> 00:14:32,200 Speaker 1: Or wen we control for things to make the competition fair. 244 00:14:32,760 --> 00:14:36,240 Speaker 1: I mean, this is why we have women's sports leagues, right, 245 00:14:36,520 --> 00:14:39,040 Speaker 1: I mean, this is why we have scholarships for women, 246 00:14:39,080 --> 00:14:42,600 Speaker 1: which is why it's like the Biden administration trying to 247 00:14:42,720 --> 00:14:45,600 Speaker 1: change the way that that Title nine, right, Title nine 248 00:14:45,720 --> 00:14:48,600 Speaker 1: is implemented, is sickening to me. 249 00:14:48,840 --> 00:14:51,000 Speaker 2: If you make an age instead of or here's an 250 00:14:51,000 --> 00:14:53,880 Speaker 2: easy pitch, Sean, I approached a lot of Little League 251 00:14:53,920 --> 00:14:57,560 Speaker 2: in basketball. If I showed up at my twelve year 252 00:14:57,560 --> 00:15:01,040 Speaker 2: old's baseball games this week and I said, I've got 253 00:15:01,040 --> 00:15:03,960 Speaker 2: this great player, he's going to be incredible. And I 254 00:15:04,040 --> 00:15:05,640 Speaker 2: brought a sixteen year old to. 255 00:15:05,600 --> 00:15:08,680 Speaker 1: Play on twelve U, people would kick out. 256 00:15:09,920 --> 00:15:15,120 Speaker 2: Right, but every single parent would immediately say, this isn't allowed. 257 00:15:15,320 --> 00:15:18,040 Speaker 2: Remember Little League World Series kid out of New York 258 00:15:19,240 --> 00:15:22,359 Speaker 2: was fourteen years old, the pitcher, and he was dominating 259 00:15:22,400 --> 00:15:25,640 Speaker 2: twelve U and there was a huge uproar and outrage 260 00:15:25,680 --> 00:15:30,920 Speaker 2: over that. People totally understood it, right, they understood how 261 00:15:31,000 --> 00:15:34,600 Speaker 2: ridiculous that was. Well, I mean, allowing Leah Thomas, who's 262 00:15:34,640 --> 00:15:37,600 Speaker 2: six foot three or whatever he is at two hundred 263 00:15:37,600 --> 00:15:41,800 Speaker 2: and twenty pounds, huge, huge arms, big hands, feet like 264 00:15:41,880 --> 00:15:45,600 Speaker 2: to compete against Riley Gains is crazy. And the other 265 00:15:45,640 --> 00:15:48,760 Speaker 2: wild thing here is the girls. I feel bad for 266 00:15:48,800 --> 00:15:51,120 Speaker 2: them because a lot of are not going to make 267 00:15:51,160 --> 00:15:53,720 Speaker 2: a lot of money in women's sports, and so many 268 00:15:53,800 --> 00:15:56,000 Speaker 2: of them are terrified to speak out because they're worried 269 00:15:56,000 --> 00:15:59,520 Speaker 2: about getting labeled transphobic. Suddenly, they can't get in grad school, 270 00:15:59,840 --> 00:16:03,440 Speaker 2: can't get a job. Well, they're kind of handcuffed. And 271 00:16:03,480 --> 00:16:05,720 Speaker 2: I give credit to Riley Gaines for being willing to 272 00:16:05,760 --> 00:16:06,560 Speaker 2: speak out on this. 273 00:16:07,040 --> 00:16:09,280 Speaker 1: I mean, Clay, I think she's I personally think she's 274 00:16:09,320 --> 00:16:12,480 Speaker 1: a hero. I mean she's a pioneer and I think 275 00:16:12,960 --> 00:16:14,800 Speaker 1: history will look back on her kindly. 276 00:16:15,040 --> 00:16:15,240 Speaker 2: Yes. 277 00:16:15,640 --> 00:16:17,760 Speaker 1: And I would say, like, I've got five kids, I've 278 00:16:17,760 --> 00:16:21,160 Speaker 1: got a blended family. I've got three daughters now, and 279 00:16:21,640 --> 00:16:26,240 Speaker 1: I watch them work their ass yet off every day. 280 00:16:26,440 --> 00:16:30,480 Speaker 1: I watch them out there practicing soccer, volleyball, cheer, whatever. 281 00:16:31,120 --> 00:16:34,040 Speaker 1: And they're going to go through all of junior high 282 00:16:34,040 --> 00:16:36,840 Speaker 1: and all of high school, you know, waking up early, 283 00:16:37,240 --> 00:16:39,680 Speaker 1: you know, when their friends are going out to hang out, 284 00:16:39,720 --> 00:16:41,920 Speaker 1: watch a movie or whatever, They're gonna be dedicating themselves 285 00:16:41,920 --> 00:16:45,000 Speaker 1: to either practice or game. They're gonna work their asses 286 00:16:45,040 --> 00:16:48,840 Speaker 1: off all through high school and only to have some 287 00:16:49,440 --> 00:16:52,640 Speaker 1: man some or some man or some teenage boy, take 288 00:16:52,880 --> 00:16:57,000 Speaker 1: what college scholarship might be meant for them. To me, 289 00:16:57,080 --> 00:17:00,760 Speaker 1: it's just I don't understand. You know, you see people 290 00:17:00,760 --> 00:17:04,040 Speaker 1: all the time on Twitter Clay saying, well, you know, 291 00:17:04,119 --> 00:17:06,960 Speaker 1: if women just refuse to compete, this problem would solve. 292 00:17:06,960 --> 00:17:08,880 Speaker 1: But I'm like thinking to myself, like, well, wait, you're 293 00:17:08,920 --> 00:17:12,000 Speaker 1: talking about you're asking a lot of high school and 294 00:17:12,119 --> 00:17:15,320 Speaker 1: college young women to take stances like you saw what 295 00:17:15,400 --> 00:17:21,200 Speaker 1: happened to Riley Gaines yesterday, assaulted by a trans mob right, 296 00:17:22,880 --> 00:17:25,360 Speaker 1: and you're asking a lot of young girls to take 297 00:17:25,359 --> 00:17:27,919 Speaker 1: that stance who've dedicated their life to whatever sport that 298 00:17:27,960 --> 00:17:30,960 Speaker 1: they're in, to take that stance knowing that there are 299 00:17:31,000 --> 00:17:34,679 Speaker 1: going to be severe repercussions for it, perhaps down the line, 300 00:17:34,680 --> 00:17:37,639 Speaker 1: definitely in the moment. So I think like the solution is, 301 00:17:37,920 --> 00:17:42,240 Speaker 1: like we also have to use our platforms as adults, 302 00:17:42,520 --> 00:17:44,760 Speaker 1: both men and women, and speak out on this. JK. 303 00:17:44,880 --> 00:17:47,879 Speaker 1: Rowling has done it, Megan Kelly has done it, Riley 304 00:17:47,920 --> 00:17:48,639 Speaker 1: gains has done. 305 00:17:48,520 --> 00:17:49,280 Speaker 2: It, But we need more. 306 00:17:49,400 --> 00:17:51,359 Speaker 1: I think we need men to speak out it as well. 307 00:17:51,440 --> 00:17:53,840 Speaker 2: Yeah. Look, I mean at some point we talked about 308 00:17:53,840 --> 00:17:55,520 Speaker 2: this today on Clay and Buck, But this is a 309 00:17:55,560 --> 00:17:58,560 Speaker 2: story I've been talking about for years, but at some 310 00:17:58,760 --> 00:18:03,399 Speaker 2: point inclusion moves into exclusion. And let me explain what 311 00:18:03,400 --> 00:18:06,280 Speaker 2: I mean by that. When you are saying I am 312 00:18:06,280 --> 00:18:09,119 Speaker 2: a man and I have now decided to identify as 313 00:18:09,160 --> 00:18:13,359 Speaker 2: a woman in order to compete as women's athletes, you're 314 00:18:13,480 --> 00:18:17,760 Speaker 2: actually knocking true women out of being able to compete. 315 00:18:17,800 --> 00:18:20,040 Speaker 2: You are excluding women. And one of the and I'm 316 00:18:20,080 --> 00:18:23,240 Speaker 2: paraphrasing here, but one of the toughest quotes OutKick wrote 317 00:18:23,280 --> 00:18:25,879 Speaker 2: about this in the Leia Thomas context, Several University of 318 00:18:25,880 --> 00:18:29,080 Speaker 2: Pennsylvania women's swimmers reached out. They wouldn't even allow their 319 00:18:29,160 --> 00:18:32,160 Speaker 2: names to be used. They were terrified of what might 320 00:18:32,200 --> 00:18:34,600 Speaker 2: happen to them. But one of the girls said she 321 00:18:34,760 --> 00:18:37,959 Speaker 2: hopes that when she grows up and gets married and 322 00:18:38,080 --> 00:18:42,560 Speaker 2: has kids, that she has boys, because if she has girls, 323 00:18:42,880 --> 00:18:46,640 Speaker 2: she's worried that the trans community will have effectively canceled 324 00:18:46,640 --> 00:18:49,480 Speaker 2: women's athletics. I mean, think about how awful that is 325 00:18:49,880 --> 00:18:53,640 Speaker 2: for a women's swimmer in college, an elite level swimmer, right, 326 00:18:53,760 --> 00:18:55,600 Speaker 2: in order to be able to perform in college at 327 00:18:55,600 --> 00:18:58,600 Speaker 2: that level, to have spent her entire life, as you said, 328 00:18:58,680 --> 00:19:02,320 Speaker 2: getting up at five am six I'm not only her exactly, hers, 329 00:19:02,920 --> 00:19:05,920 Speaker 2: her grandparents, her family and friends, to get her to practice, 330 00:19:05,920 --> 00:19:09,520 Speaker 2: to put her full commitment and effort behind it. And 331 00:19:09,600 --> 00:19:13,240 Speaker 2: you lose because a dude decides that he wants to 332 00:19:13,320 --> 00:19:15,240 Speaker 2: identify as a woman. It's just fundamentally wrong. 333 00:19:15,880 --> 00:19:18,000 Speaker 1: I mean, how did we get here? Clay? I mean, 334 00:19:18,200 --> 00:19:22,920 Speaker 1: you're looking at like the trans mafia feels like exactly that. 335 00:19:23,280 --> 00:19:27,160 Speaker 1: I mean, you have trans kids shooting up schools, killing 336 00:19:27,160 --> 00:19:31,359 Speaker 1: our children. You have men dressed up like women in 337 00:19:31,440 --> 00:19:37,479 Speaker 1: dresses assaulting women. People say nothing, We've accepted a culture 338 00:19:37,520 --> 00:19:41,120 Speaker 1: in some ways, not everybody, but it seems like we've 339 00:19:41,160 --> 00:19:45,080 Speaker 1: accepted like people are pushing sex changes on our kids, 340 00:19:45,280 --> 00:19:48,160 Speaker 1: oftentimes without parental consent. In fact, most of the left 341 00:19:48,480 --> 00:19:50,000 Speaker 1: they if they had a blank check to do what 342 00:19:50,040 --> 00:19:52,400 Speaker 1: they want, they wouldn't inform parents about that stuff at all. 343 00:19:52,680 --> 00:19:57,600 Speaker 1: That's horrifying And how how did we get here? Well, 344 00:19:57,600 --> 00:19:59,199 Speaker 1: if you would have told me ten years ago that 345 00:19:59,240 --> 00:20:02,320 Speaker 1: we'd be having these conversations and advocating for sex changes 346 00:20:02,359 --> 00:20:04,959 Speaker 1: for kids that are ten years old and saying that 347 00:20:05,000 --> 00:20:08,760 Speaker 1: newborn babies, oh my newborn has they them pronouns? You know, 348 00:20:08,920 --> 00:20:11,680 Speaker 1: like I know it. See the baby knows this that's 349 00:20:11,760 --> 00:20:16,360 Speaker 1: completely insane, and it just seems like things have Cohn 350 00:20:16,480 --> 00:20:17,639 Speaker 1: completely off the rails. 351 00:20:18,040 --> 00:20:21,600 Speaker 2: My theory is that there are a lot of people 352 00:20:21,680 --> 00:20:26,800 Speaker 2: like me who are relatively live and let live for adults, right, 353 00:20:27,040 --> 00:20:29,520 Speaker 2: you want to sleep whoever, yes with as long as 354 00:20:29,560 --> 00:20:31,720 Speaker 2: it's consensual adults. I don't really care what you do 355 00:20:31,760 --> 00:20:32,040 Speaker 2: in your. 356 00:20:32,000 --> 00:20:34,320 Speaker 1: Private life of course, of course. 357 00:20:34,359 --> 00:20:36,880 Speaker 2: And I think the same thing was true with trans people. 358 00:20:36,960 --> 00:20:38,959 Speaker 2: It's like, Okay, you want to be an adult and 359 00:20:39,000 --> 00:20:41,040 Speaker 2: you want to identify as a woman or a man 360 00:20:41,160 --> 00:20:43,840 Speaker 2: or whatever. I don't have any problem with it. The 361 00:20:43,960 --> 00:20:47,159 Speaker 2: problem is the left wing in this country is not 362 00:20:47,480 --> 00:20:52,840 Speaker 2: content with that. They need you to acknowledge fundamental untruths. 363 00:20:52,880 --> 00:20:55,000 Speaker 2: There's a difference between hey, I'm a guy, I want 364 00:20:55,040 --> 00:20:57,440 Speaker 2: to identify as a girl. Okay, you go do that. 365 00:20:57,520 --> 00:21:00,440 Speaker 2: I don't care. You can live that life, but as 366 00:21:00,480 --> 00:21:03,880 Speaker 2: soon as you say, you have to acknowledge that I 367 00:21:03,920 --> 00:21:06,720 Speaker 2: am a woman and that I am able to compete 368 00:21:06,720 --> 00:21:08,959 Speaker 2: against women's athletics and Sean, this is the question I've 369 00:21:08,960 --> 00:21:11,399 Speaker 2: also been asking people of late. I think it's a 370 00:21:11,440 --> 00:21:13,800 Speaker 2: flaw of women, and let me explain what I mean 371 00:21:13,840 --> 00:21:17,480 Speaker 2: by this. I think women are more tolerant and more 372 00:21:17,600 --> 00:21:21,160 Speaker 2: inclusive in general, and more welcoming and more emotional than 373 00:21:21,200 --> 00:21:24,359 Speaker 2: men are. And just think about this. Can you even 374 00:21:24,440 --> 00:21:29,000 Speaker 2: name a famous trans person who is female and has 375 00:21:29,040 --> 00:21:33,920 Speaker 2: decided to identify as male, Not like you could point 376 00:21:33,920 --> 00:21:37,040 Speaker 2: to like Ellen Slash, Elliott Page, whatever. That's somebody who 377 00:21:37,119 --> 00:21:39,960 Speaker 2: was famous as a girl and might still be somewhat 378 00:21:39,960 --> 00:21:41,920 Speaker 2: famous as a guy. But my point on that is 379 00:21:42,280 --> 00:21:44,040 Speaker 2: because we've seen Nike and Budla. 380 00:21:43,720 --> 00:21:45,240 Speaker 1: Like what what about Bruce Jenner? 381 00:21:45,800 --> 00:21:49,200 Speaker 2: But Bruce Jenner went from female to male. There's tons 382 00:21:49,200 --> 00:21:53,760 Speaker 2: of super sorry from male to female. Right, There's tons 383 00:21:53,800 --> 00:21:58,600 Speaker 2: of famous men who identify as women. There's hardly anybody 384 00:21:58,600 --> 00:22:05,120 Speaker 2: who is famous who is female and decides to identify 385 00:22:05,119 --> 00:22:07,520 Speaker 2: as a man, right, And my argument for why that 386 00:22:07,560 --> 00:22:11,840 Speaker 2: would be the case is one, women can't make who 387 00:22:11,960 --> 00:22:14,680 Speaker 2: to identify as men. They can't make sports teams, right, 388 00:22:14,760 --> 00:22:17,280 Speaker 2: So they're not big, strong, or fast enough to make 389 00:22:17,320 --> 00:22:20,040 Speaker 2: any team. So there's no controversy there, right, Like, if 390 00:22:20,080 --> 00:22:22,480 Speaker 2: you are a fourteen year old girl and you want 391 00:22:22,520 --> 00:22:25,040 Speaker 2: to identify as a fourteen year old boy, you have 392 00:22:25,119 --> 00:22:31,160 Speaker 2: virtually a zero percent chance of making any male sports team. Also, men, 393 00:22:31,720 --> 00:22:35,560 Speaker 2: I think just kind of feel sorry for women who 394 00:22:35,600 --> 00:22:38,920 Speaker 2: want to identify as men, and we're not using them 395 00:22:39,000 --> 00:22:43,920 Speaker 2: as paragons of masculinity, right, like we're not holding them up. Conversely, 396 00:22:44,560 --> 00:22:48,960 Speaker 2: use this ridiculous Nike ad. Nike put a dude who 397 00:22:49,000 --> 00:22:51,919 Speaker 2: is identifying as a woman in a sports bra. He 398 00:22:52,000 --> 00:22:56,720 Speaker 2: has no boobs in leggings. He literally has a dick 399 00:22:57,680 --> 00:22:58,960 Speaker 2: and balls. 400 00:22:58,720 --> 00:23:01,639 Speaker 1: Right, It's crazy, It's absolutely crazy. 401 00:23:01,720 --> 00:23:05,959 Speaker 2: Yeah, try to sell women's athletic apparel. And so I 402 00:23:06,000 --> 00:23:10,920 Speaker 2: think women are so welcoming that they have gotten played 403 00:23:10,960 --> 00:23:14,160 Speaker 2: here because men, by and large, the trans community doesn't 404 00:23:14,160 --> 00:23:16,040 Speaker 2: really impact us, because we just kind of roll our 405 00:23:16,080 --> 00:23:18,000 Speaker 2: eyes and we say, you know, do whatever you want. 406 00:23:18,480 --> 00:23:21,880 Speaker 2: Women have tried to really buy into this idea of oh, 407 00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:24,600 Speaker 2: you're a woman too, which is why I think it's 408 00:23:24,720 --> 00:23:27,520 Speaker 2: it's actually a modern day version to your point early on, 409 00:23:27,600 --> 00:23:30,880 Speaker 2: Riley Gaines, I think it's a modern day version of blackface, right, 410 00:23:31,240 --> 00:23:36,600 Speaker 2: because these men are pretending to be exaggerated versions of women, 411 00:23:37,040 --> 00:23:39,679 Speaker 2: not actually reflecting most of the women that all of 412 00:23:39,760 --> 00:23:44,000 Speaker 2: us know, and making money off of. In many ways, 413 00:23:44,040 --> 00:23:47,679 Speaker 2: this woman face mockery and women have allowed it to happen. 414 00:23:47,800 --> 00:23:50,080 Speaker 2: And I think it's because they've taken advantage the trans 415 00:23:50,080 --> 00:23:56,399 Speaker 2: community has of the overwhelming welcomingness and tolerance of women, 416 00:23:56,800 --> 00:24:01,240 Speaker 2: they're actually now being mocked by me. It's crazy. Think 417 00:24:01,240 --> 00:24:05,199 Speaker 2: about this. The ultimate white male privilege isn't anything that 418 00:24:05,240 --> 00:24:08,000 Speaker 2: white guys like you and I do. It's deciding that 419 00:24:08,080 --> 00:24:10,840 Speaker 2: you're actually a chick and then getting named woman of 420 00:24:10,880 --> 00:24:16,159 Speaker 2: the Year. That's like, that's pretty great. It's like that 421 00:24:16,600 --> 00:24:19,160 Speaker 2: first year ever you're a woman of the Year. 422 00:24:19,600 --> 00:24:19,960 Speaker 1: I know. 423 00:24:20,160 --> 00:24:22,800 Speaker 2: I mean, like I'm a dude. If if some chick 424 00:24:22,840 --> 00:24:25,120 Speaker 2: became a dude for a year and immediately got named 425 00:24:25,119 --> 00:24:27,000 Speaker 2: Man of the Year, I'd be like, man, that's that's 426 00:24:27,080 --> 00:24:28,240 Speaker 2: kind of crazy. 427 00:24:29,320 --> 00:24:32,680 Speaker 1: Like it feels to me like the world is upside down. 428 00:24:33,160 --> 00:24:35,399 Speaker 1: And so I think part of what we're talking about 429 00:24:35,520 --> 00:24:39,280 Speaker 1: and your willingness to talk about these cultural issues and 430 00:24:39,600 --> 00:24:42,359 Speaker 1: sports and culture are related. There's no two ways about it. 431 00:24:42,400 --> 00:24:45,800 Speaker 1: I mean, sports have gotten this country through some really 432 00:24:45,840 --> 00:24:49,359 Speaker 1: tough times. I mean, and it's always been something that 433 00:24:49,359 --> 00:24:51,720 Speaker 1: we've been able to unify around. I mean, sadly today 434 00:24:51,760 --> 00:24:53,800 Speaker 1: it seems a little bit more divisive, but I still 435 00:24:53,840 --> 00:24:57,200 Speaker 1: think people buy and large see sports as something that's unifying. 436 00:24:57,200 --> 00:25:03,440 Speaker 1: As you said, so OutKick yeah. I mean obviously ESPN 437 00:25:03,800 --> 00:25:06,200 Speaker 1: I think is just a total dumpster fire. I think 438 00:25:06,200 --> 00:25:09,280 Speaker 1: that they they're hemorrhaging viewers. I can't watch it anymore. 439 00:25:09,400 --> 00:25:11,920 Speaker 1: It's just unwatchable to me. Like, and if you're watching, 440 00:25:12,200 --> 00:25:15,080 Speaker 1: you know, by the way, watching your listening, Like stop 441 00:25:15,160 --> 00:25:18,400 Speaker 1: watching ESPN, Like subscribe to OutKick, go to their websites, 442 00:25:18,440 --> 00:25:21,520 Speaker 1: like it really is a great site. Like you're the 443 00:25:21,560 --> 00:25:24,760 Speaker 1: founder of OutKick, and I think the tendency is when 444 00:25:24,760 --> 00:25:27,080 Speaker 1: people see you on TV and they see OutKick scrolling 445 00:25:27,119 --> 00:25:29,720 Speaker 1: behind you, I think the tendency is like, oh, that's 446 00:25:29,760 --> 00:25:31,960 Speaker 1: the OutKick guy. He just sold that the Fox News 447 00:25:31,960 --> 00:25:34,400 Speaker 1: now and like, but like what is reading about you? 448 00:25:34,400 --> 00:25:37,199 Speaker 1: You've been doing this for a long time. When you 449 00:25:37,240 --> 00:25:41,040 Speaker 1: registered the domain name outkicked, the coverage like over ten 450 00:25:41,119 --> 00:25:44,960 Speaker 1: years ago. Yeah, so talk to me if you would 451 00:25:45,280 --> 00:25:50,719 Speaker 1: about the grind clay because OutKick is becoming I mean, 452 00:25:50,720 --> 00:25:53,880 Speaker 1: it's growing like gangbusters just from a business standpoint. I mean, 453 00:25:53,920 --> 00:25:56,800 Speaker 1: it's growing like crazy. I mean I think people are 454 00:25:57,520 --> 00:25:59,399 Speaker 1: I mean, people were on board with your mission and 455 00:25:59,440 --> 00:26:04,199 Speaker 1: your message and you're developing great content. You know, you 456 00:26:04,240 --> 00:26:06,280 Speaker 1: had to have faced some resistance along that way though. 457 00:26:07,560 --> 00:26:11,479 Speaker 2: All the time, right, I mean, so I found an 458 00:26:11,480 --> 00:26:15,240 Speaker 2: out kick in twenty eleven. At the time, I was 459 00:26:15,320 --> 00:26:19,360 Speaker 2: working at a website called FanHouse dot com and some 460 00:26:20,080 --> 00:26:26,600 Speaker 2: for that the sports arm of basically MSN dot com 461 00:26:27,000 --> 00:26:31,160 Speaker 2: but kind of the and we got shut down. So 462 00:26:31,520 --> 00:26:34,720 Speaker 2: I and everybody else got laid off in twenty and eleven. 463 00:26:35,280 --> 00:26:38,240 Speaker 2: And so what I had seen already, I had worked 464 00:26:38,240 --> 00:26:42,040 Speaker 2: at dead spend before it was totally crazy at cbssports dot. 465 00:26:41,840 --> 00:26:43,720 Speaker 1: Com before they were writing hit pieces on you. 466 00:26:43,920 --> 00:26:48,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, right, But I felt like I knew the online 467 00:26:48,200 --> 00:26:52,159 Speaker 2: sports media bit. But more important than that, I was 468 00:26:52,200 --> 00:26:54,840 Speaker 2: doing local sports talk radio at the time. I felt 469 00:26:54,840 --> 00:26:59,520 Speaker 2: like I understood the advertising business. And my thought process was, 470 00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:03,560 Speaker 2: I don't want anybody else to be able to control 471 00:27:03,960 --> 00:27:06,359 Speaker 2: whether I can take care of my family anymore. So, 472 00:27:06,480 --> 00:27:08,800 Speaker 2: like a lot of people probably listening to us right now, 473 00:27:09,119 --> 00:27:13,120 Speaker 2: I started a small business because I wanted to control 474 00:27:13,600 --> 00:27:17,919 Speaker 2: what I was able to make a living doing. And 475 00:27:18,400 --> 00:27:20,840 Speaker 2: I grind it, you know, I was. I'd sell every ad, 476 00:27:21,160 --> 00:27:24,080 Speaker 2: I would write every article by and large edit every article. 477 00:27:24,080 --> 00:27:25,480 Speaker 2: I would do it all. I mean, I worked all 478 00:27:25,480 --> 00:27:28,680 Speaker 2: the time, and we just slowly started to grow. And 479 00:27:28,720 --> 00:27:33,159 Speaker 2: again twenty eleven, sports had gone crazy, right. We were like, 480 00:27:33,400 --> 00:27:37,960 Speaker 2: I love college football. We were primarily focused on fun zany, 481 00:27:38,119 --> 00:27:43,960 Speaker 2: irreverent stories like Johnny Manziel dressing. Remember going out for 482 00:27:44,119 --> 00:27:48,359 Speaker 2: Halloween as Scooby Doo and a booking hot girl and 483 00:27:48,400 --> 00:27:51,359 Speaker 2: a right like. That was the kind of story that 484 00:27:51,400 --> 00:27:53,360 Speaker 2: we would put up, you know, just entertain people during 485 00:27:53,400 --> 00:27:56,159 Speaker 2: the course of the day. And as I got older 486 00:27:56,160 --> 00:27:58,840 Speaker 2: in the country got crazier, I found that we were 487 00:27:58,880 --> 00:28:03,119 Speaker 2: talking more and more about these cultural related issues and 488 00:28:03,200 --> 00:28:06,000 Speaker 2: I just kept looking around, like, man, is this is 489 00:28:06,040 --> 00:28:10,320 Speaker 2: this real? Right like? And I saw so much artificiality 490 00:28:10,400 --> 00:28:13,560 Speaker 2: and dishonesty. What I have found is whether you agree 491 00:28:13,640 --> 00:28:16,080 Speaker 2: or disagree with me, I say exactly what I think 492 00:28:16,200 --> 00:28:18,679 Speaker 2: and there's no like tiptoeing up to my opinion. And 493 00:28:18,720 --> 00:28:21,679 Speaker 2: I think that had become so rare in sports that 494 00:28:21,760 --> 00:28:25,160 Speaker 2: there was a desperate desire for it. And I always say, 495 00:28:25,160 --> 00:28:28,240 Speaker 2: you know, OutKick is founded on four principles, smart, original, funny, 496 00:28:28,240 --> 00:28:31,560 Speaker 2: and authentic. If you can do all four, it's a 497 00:28:31,600 --> 00:28:34,440 Speaker 2: home run. But everything has to have at least one 498 00:28:34,440 --> 00:28:38,200 Speaker 2: of those four. And so that was kind of our goal, 499 00:28:38,240 --> 00:28:40,880 Speaker 2: and we just continued to grow. You know, I was 500 00:28:40,920 --> 00:28:43,520 Speaker 2: doing radio at the time I moved into doing television, 501 00:28:44,280 --> 00:28:47,240 Speaker 2: and as all of these began to feed together, sports 502 00:28:47,240 --> 00:28:49,680 Speaker 2: gambling became legal. I love to gamble on sports. I 503 00:28:49,680 --> 00:28:52,840 Speaker 2: imagine a lot of people listening to us do. And 504 00:28:53,320 --> 00:28:56,600 Speaker 2: I always think, like, you know, ninety five percent in 505 00:28:56,640 --> 00:28:59,320 Speaker 2: my experience of what guys talk about, right, we have 506 00:28:59,360 --> 00:29:01,280 Speaker 2: a lot of women. D there's a lot of women listeners. 507 00:29:01,280 --> 00:29:07,440 Speaker 2: But initially outkicks a guy site, girls sports and money. 508 00:29:07,800 --> 00:29:09,400 Speaker 2: Maybe a little bit of alcohol if you wanted to 509 00:29:09,440 --> 00:29:13,320 Speaker 2: talk us, but like most guy conversations, girls sports, how 510 00:29:13,320 --> 00:29:16,240 Speaker 2: to make money, like all these different things, right, That's 511 00:29:16,320 --> 00:29:19,240 Speaker 2: kind of what we did. And it just continued to grow. 512 00:29:19,280 --> 00:29:21,480 Speaker 2: And what I would say is the woke community and 513 00:29:21,520 --> 00:29:25,800 Speaker 2: this cancel culture and identity politics, it infected sports more 514 00:29:25,800 --> 00:29:29,320 Speaker 2: and more. What I saw happening was there was a 515 00:29:29,400 --> 00:29:33,120 Speaker 2: knife fight to be the wokest sports company, right, Like 516 00:29:33,200 --> 00:29:40,160 Speaker 2: everybody's competing over fighting like fake women athletes enough sitting 517 00:29:40,240 --> 00:29:42,920 Speaker 2: over here on the side, like this is crazy. So 518 00:29:43,080 --> 00:29:47,280 Speaker 2: what I found was increasing we're serving seventy five or 519 00:29:47,320 --> 00:29:51,240 Speaker 2: eighty percent of the American sports fan and the espns 520 00:29:51,280 --> 00:29:53,440 Speaker 2: of the world were fighting over who could be the 521 00:29:53,480 --> 00:29:56,800 Speaker 2: wokeust for the other twenty percent. And so that's why 522 00:29:56,840 --> 00:29:59,560 Speaker 2: our audience as skyrocketed March was I we just finished 523 00:29:59,560 --> 00:30:02,360 Speaker 2: March second best month of all time. I think we 524 00:30:02,360 --> 00:30:05,240 Speaker 2: were up, you know, quadrupled our audience over last March. 525 00:30:05,640 --> 00:30:07,240 Speaker 2: That I have a lot of fun with the Buck 526 00:30:07,280 --> 00:30:11,280 Speaker 2: Sexton Show with Buck and Me. That show is one 527 00:30:11,280 --> 00:30:12,960 Speaker 2: of the biggest, if not the biggest, in all of 528 00:30:13,080 --> 00:30:15,640 Speaker 2: radio anywhere in the country. And so what I feel 529 00:30:15,640 --> 00:30:18,160 Speaker 2: fortunate about is if you combine out Kick, Fox News 530 00:30:18,200 --> 00:30:21,000 Speaker 2: and the radio show that I have, I have an 531 00:30:21,360 --> 00:30:24,440 Speaker 2: opportunity to influence. I like to think public thought in 532 00:30:24,480 --> 00:30:27,360 Speaker 2: a big way just by sharing exactly what I think. 533 00:30:27,400 --> 00:30:30,120 Speaker 2: And my wife always says, the reason I don't need 534 00:30:30,240 --> 00:30:34,560 Speaker 2: therapy so far is because I say three hours or 535 00:30:34,600 --> 00:30:38,600 Speaker 2: more every day of exactly I have no weight on 536 00:30:38,640 --> 00:30:42,240 Speaker 2: my shoulders right like, done everything that I can and 537 00:30:42,280 --> 00:30:45,320 Speaker 2: then people can agree or disagree with it. But you know, 538 00:30:45,360 --> 00:30:47,520 Speaker 2: I'm gonna go play with my kids, sho basketball, throw 539 00:30:47,560 --> 00:30:50,880 Speaker 2: football in the backyard and not really have a lot 540 00:30:50,880 --> 00:30:53,120 Speaker 2: of weight. I've got three boys a lot of weight 541 00:30:53,160 --> 00:30:55,320 Speaker 2: on my shoulders because I feel like I was able 542 00:30:55,360 --> 00:30:57,720 Speaker 2: to say exactly what I thought, which is why the 543 00:30:57,800 --> 00:30:59,520 Speaker 2: number one thing that people say to me Sean when 544 00:30:59,520 --> 00:31:03,400 Speaker 2: they come up. I've never would have ever thought that 545 00:31:03,440 --> 00:31:05,240 Speaker 2: a guy who talks about sports and then kind of 546 00:31:05,280 --> 00:31:08,040 Speaker 2: moves into pop culture and politics people would ever say 547 00:31:08,080 --> 00:31:11,040 Speaker 2: thank you. But the reason they're saying it is because 548 00:31:11,080 --> 00:31:14,080 Speaker 2: they don't feel like they can do it right. They're 549 00:31:14,080 --> 00:31:16,920 Speaker 2: worried about paying their mortgage, They're worried about taking care 550 00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:19,000 Speaker 2: of their family, and the last thing they want to 551 00:31:19,040 --> 00:31:22,040 Speaker 2: do is alienate some woke company and get kicked to 552 00:31:22,080 --> 00:31:23,760 Speaker 2: the curb, and they can't take care of their family. 553 00:31:23,840 --> 00:31:25,920 Speaker 2: So it's a privilege to be able to speak for 554 00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:28,680 Speaker 2: so many who don't feel like they can speak themselves. 555 00:31:29,720 --> 00:31:31,560 Speaker 1: I mean, do you ever think that you went from 556 00:31:31,600 --> 00:31:36,160 Speaker 1: being the boobs and First Amendment guy on CNN to this? 557 00:31:36,400 --> 00:31:38,680 Speaker 1: I mean, was there a moment like after that. Were 558 00:31:38,680 --> 00:31:41,880 Speaker 1: you ever worried like, Okay, I'm banned for life from 559 00:31:41,960 --> 00:31:44,959 Speaker 1: CNN and I'm banned from ESPN. Do you ever think, like, 560 00:31:45,920 --> 00:31:48,760 Speaker 1: do you ever think yourself that like maybe you were 561 00:31:48,800 --> 00:31:50,920 Speaker 1: on the wrong track. I mean, it doesn't sound like 562 00:31:50,920 --> 00:31:53,480 Speaker 1: you're that kind of a guy, But I gotta ask, well, 563 00:31:53,920 --> 00:31:55,160 Speaker 1: I think it. 564 00:31:55,160 --> 00:31:57,200 Speaker 2: Depends on what you mean by you know, wrong track, 565 00:31:57,280 --> 00:31:58,600 Speaker 2: I didn't think, well, I mean, you. 566 00:31:58,600 --> 00:32:00,640 Speaker 1: Know, there are hills and valleys, right like when you're 567 00:32:00,640 --> 00:32:01,760 Speaker 1: in those lows. 568 00:32:01,520 --> 00:32:05,400 Speaker 2: I'm worried. I worried about would I be able to 569 00:32:05,440 --> 00:32:08,920 Speaker 2: take care of my family for much of my career? Right? 570 00:32:09,000 --> 00:32:11,960 Speaker 2: I mean, I think I've written about this, but I 571 00:32:12,000 --> 00:32:15,320 Speaker 2: remember back in like twenty eleven going to a minor 572 00:32:15,400 --> 00:32:19,480 Speaker 2: league baseball game Triple A and feeling like I was 573 00:32:19,520 --> 00:32:21,360 Speaker 2: a Triple A player, but I didn't know if I 574 00:32:21,400 --> 00:32:23,640 Speaker 2: would ever get my chance to play in the major leagues. 575 00:32:23,720 --> 00:32:25,200 Speaker 2: And so I think there's a lot of athletes to 576 00:32:25,360 --> 00:32:29,040 Speaker 2: understand that where you get really really good, but you know, 577 00:32:29,440 --> 00:32:31,920 Speaker 2: something goes a little bit wrong, you tweak a knee. 578 00:32:32,080 --> 00:32:33,960 Speaker 2: The guy who's in front of you ends up being 579 00:32:33,960 --> 00:32:36,920 Speaker 2: an All Star in places for fifteen years, and suddenly 580 00:32:36,960 --> 00:32:39,840 Speaker 2: you're a little bit expendable. But you've risen to that 581 00:32:40,000 --> 00:32:43,880 Speaker 2: level where you can see you're so close to kind 582 00:32:43,880 --> 00:32:47,640 Speaker 2: of popping through. Right. The difference between making fifty thousand 583 00:32:47,680 --> 00:32:50,479 Speaker 2: dollars a year as a Triple A minor leaguer and 584 00:32:50,520 --> 00:32:53,240 Speaker 2: making fifty million dollars a year and being a major 585 00:32:53,320 --> 00:32:57,160 Speaker 2: league All Star, it sounds substantial for those athletes who 586 00:32:57,240 --> 00:33:01,520 Speaker 2: understand it's oftentimes in the tesimally small difference, and so 587 00:33:01,760 --> 00:33:04,760 Speaker 2: I felt like that, I mean, look, I was thirty. 588 00:33:04,920 --> 00:33:07,400 Speaker 2: I'm forty three now. I just turned forty four yesterday. 589 00:33:07,960 --> 00:33:10,720 Speaker 2: But you know, when I was thirty three, thirty four, 590 00:33:10,840 --> 00:33:13,960 Speaker 2: thirty five, I'm making forty five, fifty thousand dollars a year. 591 00:33:14,480 --> 00:33:16,760 Speaker 2: I got kids that I'm taken care of, and I 592 00:33:16,840 --> 00:33:20,440 Speaker 2: definitely thought, hey, am I going to be able to 593 00:33:20,480 --> 00:33:23,040 Speaker 2: provide for my family like I want to be able 594 00:33:23,120 --> 00:33:25,520 Speaker 2: to provide for my family. So I wasn't necessarily worried 595 00:33:25,920 --> 00:33:29,400 Speaker 2: about how the external world was responding to me. I 596 00:33:29,480 --> 00:33:31,760 Speaker 2: was more worried, like a lot of dads and moms are, 597 00:33:32,120 --> 00:33:34,280 Speaker 2: about just being able to give my kids the best 598 00:33:34,320 --> 00:33:38,440 Speaker 2: possible opportunities in their life. So I set back, and 599 00:33:38,480 --> 00:33:39,720 Speaker 2: I thought, you know, maybe I'm going to have to 600 00:33:39,720 --> 00:33:42,400 Speaker 2: go back to practicing law full time. Maybe you know, 601 00:33:42,480 --> 00:33:45,200 Speaker 2: this media business is not going to pan out like 602 00:33:45,280 --> 00:33:48,200 Speaker 2: I wanted it to. But fortunately I had people who 603 00:33:48,240 --> 00:33:52,160 Speaker 2: were willing to stand behind me. And it turns out 604 00:33:52,160 --> 00:33:55,280 Speaker 2: that I'm pretty good at writing radio and TV, and 605 00:33:56,240 --> 00:33:58,960 Speaker 2: those all kind of started to feed together. And again, 606 00:33:59,000 --> 00:34:02,360 Speaker 2: I just come back to I talked to the vast majority. 607 00:34:02,440 --> 00:34:06,320 Speaker 2: Most people agree with me, right, I'm always labeled for versial. 608 00:34:06,760 --> 00:34:09,000 Speaker 2: But what's always crazy to me, Sean is like, and 609 00:34:09,320 --> 00:34:11,759 Speaker 2: to your point, I'll sit here and I'll be like, 610 00:34:11,800 --> 00:34:14,080 Speaker 2: how is it controversial to think that women shouldn't be 611 00:34:14,080 --> 00:34:17,319 Speaker 2: competing against dudes? Right? Like, if you actually break down 612 00:34:17,320 --> 00:34:21,000 Speaker 2: what I say, it's very rational, it's very logical, and 613 00:34:21,040 --> 00:34:22,960 Speaker 2: it's not even remotely controversial. 614 00:34:23,239 --> 00:34:25,400 Speaker 1: I mean, you know what's funny, Clay, I was. I 615 00:34:25,440 --> 00:34:27,400 Speaker 1: don't remember where I was. I think I had just 616 00:34:27,440 --> 00:34:29,560 Speaker 1: done a speaking engagement, or I was sitting at an 617 00:34:29,560 --> 00:34:31,719 Speaker 1: airport coming home, or something like when I was cing 618 00:34:31,760 --> 00:34:34,520 Speaker 1: Amazon in the airport, and or I was watching it 619 00:34:34,520 --> 00:34:36,440 Speaker 1: in a bar or something like about to catch a 620 00:34:36,440 --> 00:34:40,120 Speaker 1: flight and I saw you say that live and I 621 00:34:41,239 --> 00:34:45,040 Speaker 1: almost spit out in my drink. I thought, And part 622 00:34:45,040 --> 00:34:47,880 Speaker 1: of it was just like I thought it was. It 623 00:34:47,920 --> 00:34:52,440 Speaker 1: was hysterical, but also watching her brokes, oh Baldwin's face, 624 00:34:53,239 --> 00:34:55,960 Speaker 1: and I just thought to myself, like, even even that, 625 00:34:56,120 --> 00:34:59,279 Speaker 1: like in the supposed controversial versial moment for you, I 626 00:34:59,320 --> 00:35:04,400 Speaker 1: still think you probably had millions of people out there laughing. 627 00:35:05,120 --> 00:35:09,680 Speaker 2: The authenticity was apologize, right, and I think what I 628 00:35:09,680 --> 00:35:12,319 Speaker 2: would encourage anybody out there in media to do is 629 00:35:12,719 --> 00:35:15,439 Speaker 2: I'm not saying don't ever apologize because there may knock 630 00:35:15,520 --> 00:35:17,080 Speaker 2: on wood, right. There may be a time when I'm 631 00:35:17,160 --> 00:35:19,160 Speaker 2: live on the air for three hours every day as 632 00:35:19,200 --> 00:35:21,600 Speaker 2: I am that I misspeak and I say something that 633 00:35:21,640 --> 00:35:24,919 Speaker 2: I did not intend to say came out wrong. Look 634 00:35:24,960 --> 00:35:27,480 Speaker 2: I'm married, trust me. I apologize all the time, even 635 00:35:27,480 --> 00:35:30,440 Speaker 2: when I don't think I've done anything. But I've never 636 00:35:30,480 --> 00:35:34,760 Speaker 2: had to publicly apologize because you know, what I find 637 00:35:34,920 --> 00:35:38,040 Speaker 2: is the people who demand that you apologize are not 638 00:35:38,160 --> 00:35:41,440 Speaker 2: interested in actually having you apologize. They want to weaken 639 00:35:41,560 --> 00:35:45,640 Speaker 2: and destroy you. And my audience does not want me 640 00:35:45,719 --> 00:35:49,520 Speaker 2: to apologize because, as I said earlier, I'm saying the 641 00:35:49,520 --> 00:35:52,560 Speaker 2: things that they wish they could say. But in that scenario, 642 00:35:52,640 --> 00:35:55,240 Speaker 2: look i've been saying, first of all, that's a CNN 643 00:35:55,320 --> 00:35:57,200 Speaker 2: error for booking me in the first place. If that's 644 00:35:57,880 --> 00:36:02,120 Speaker 2: unacceptably say I said up my radio, I've written it 645 00:36:02,239 --> 00:36:05,440 Speaker 2: right because and the reason like behind is one it's witty. 646 00:36:05,800 --> 00:36:09,360 Speaker 2: But if you say which I am, I'm a First 647 00:36:09,360 --> 00:36:14,680 Speaker 2: Amendment absolutist, people like don't really understand that, right, It's 648 00:36:14,680 --> 00:36:16,880 Speaker 2: like kind of hard to get a handle on it. 649 00:36:17,360 --> 00:36:19,319 Speaker 2: So I started saying, hey, the only two things that 650 00:36:19,320 --> 00:36:21,560 Speaker 2: have never let me down are the First Amendment in boobs. 651 00:36:21,800 --> 00:36:24,160 Speaker 2: I one hundred percent support both, and they understood it. 652 00:36:24,160 --> 00:36:26,319 Speaker 2: And the funny thing about that, Sean is I don't 653 00:36:26,360 --> 00:36:29,319 Speaker 2: know how how soon after that had happened, but Hugh 654 00:36:29,360 --> 00:36:33,040 Speaker 2: Hefner died and CNN did like two or three days 655 00:36:33,080 --> 00:36:36,200 Speaker 2: in a row about what a brave guy Hugh Hefner was. 656 00:36:36,480 --> 00:36:39,600 Speaker 2: It's like, wait a minute, if there's ever been more 657 00:36:39,640 --> 00:36:42,960 Speaker 2: of a First Amendment in boobs guy, it's Hugh Hefner, right, 658 00:36:43,040 --> 00:36:45,960 Speaker 2: And frankly, by the way, a lot of women responded 659 00:36:46,040 --> 00:36:49,480 Speaker 2: very favorably to that too, because they're like, come on, like, 660 00:36:49,920 --> 00:36:53,040 Speaker 2: do you are you going to pretend that you're surprised 661 00:36:53,040 --> 00:36:55,520 Speaker 2: that men like cleavage? Like I mean, you know, like 662 00:36:55,960 --> 00:36:59,400 Speaker 2: this is that we live in such a fundamentally artificial 663 00:36:59,440 --> 00:37:04,480 Speaker 2: society that people feel compelled to apologize for things that 664 00:37:05,040 --> 00:37:08,839 Speaker 2: mostly everybody agrees are real and recognizable. And I think 665 00:37:08,880 --> 00:37:11,279 Speaker 2: in that particular segment, now I knew it was going 666 00:37:11,360 --> 00:37:13,960 Speaker 2: to be controversial, and you could imagine I was like 667 00:37:14,040 --> 00:37:16,520 Speaker 2: Friday afternoon, I told my wife, Hey, I've just got 668 00:37:16,560 --> 00:37:19,800 Speaker 2: to do this splash CNN interview that we're going to 669 00:37:19,880 --> 00:37:22,520 Speaker 2: take the kids out for pizza. And my wife was 670 00:37:22,560 --> 00:37:25,560 Speaker 2: watching the interview downstairs, and to your point, her first 671 00:37:25,600 --> 00:37:27,880 Speaker 2: thing that she texted me was do I need to 672 00:37:27,880 --> 00:37:30,239 Speaker 2: put the house on the market. And they tried. I mean, 673 00:37:30,239 --> 00:37:32,239 Speaker 2: she's got a good sense of humor, but they tried 674 00:37:32,239 --> 00:37:35,560 Speaker 2: to cancel me. Right. ESPN tried to get me canceled 675 00:37:35,600 --> 00:37:40,120 Speaker 2: over that. They tried to persuade my radio station to 676 00:37:40,640 --> 00:37:42,960 Speaker 2: cease to allow me to do my morning sports talk 677 00:37:43,080 --> 00:37:45,959 Speaker 2: radio show. Now, I didn't really panic because I knew 678 00:37:46,000 --> 00:37:48,480 Speaker 2: I owned OutKick, and that's what I would say, if 679 00:37:48,480 --> 00:37:51,960 Speaker 2: you own the means of your distribution. And I also 680 00:37:52,040 --> 00:37:55,399 Speaker 2: fought back and you know, like refused to bow down. 681 00:37:55,680 --> 00:37:58,280 Speaker 2: But there's been lots of times in my career, certainly 682 00:37:58,880 --> 00:38:02,200 Speaker 2: where people have wanted to cancel me, and I think 683 00:38:02,560 --> 00:38:07,040 Speaker 2: having your own means of distribution, owning your content is 684 00:38:07,120 --> 00:38:11,400 Speaker 2: what provides that protection from you being able to be canceled. 685 00:38:11,520 --> 00:38:15,760 Speaker 1: God is such a great point. So your father, you're married, 686 00:38:16,360 --> 00:38:20,400 Speaker 1: great three boys. What do you like? What are some 687 00:38:20,480 --> 00:38:23,719 Speaker 1: of the lessons that you want them to learn from 688 00:38:23,719 --> 00:38:26,840 Speaker 1: you as they grow up in this crazy world. 689 00:38:27,120 --> 00:38:29,120 Speaker 2: I think about this so much. I mean, one is 690 00:38:29,680 --> 00:38:32,640 Speaker 2: work hard. I don't care what you do. I try 691 00:38:32,680 --> 00:38:35,440 Speaker 2: to tell this to my boys all the time. Whatever 692 00:38:35,480 --> 00:38:38,359 Speaker 2: you decide to do in life, I just want you 693 00:38:38,520 --> 00:38:41,000 Speaker 2: to be able to commit to it and work as 694 00:38:41,080 --> 00:38:43,799 Speaker 2: hard as you possibly can at that, and it may 695 00:38:43,840 --> 00:38:46,880 Speaker 2: not be financially rewarding. One of my kids thinks he 696 00:38:46,880 --> 00:38:48,600 Speaker 2: wants to grow up and be a high school history 697 00:38:48,600 --> 00:38:51,680 Speaker 2: teacher right now, and I said, okay, that's great, but 698 00:38:51,760 --> 00:38:53,960 Speaker 2: I want you to be the best high school history 699 00:38:53,960 --> 00:38:56,640 Speaker 2: teacher that there is anywhere. And he may change his mind. 700 00:38:56,680 --> 00:38:57,640 Speaker 2: I may I don't want to do that when he 701 00:38:57,640 --> 00:39:03,200 Speaker 2: gets older. But I think number one is work incredibly hard. 702 00:39:03,840 --> 00:39:06,839 Speaker 2: What I see most, and I'm sure as you get 703 00:39:06,840 --> 00:39:10,120 Speaker 2: older these things can change. What I respect the most 704 00:39:10,560 --> 00:39:14,400 Speaker 2: is fearlessness, being willing to take risk. And I don't 705 00:39:14,400 --> 00:39:17,160 Speaker 2: necessarily mean some people do it in an incredible way 706 00:39:17,400 --> 00:39:20,720 Speaker 2: like you did, physically risk, right like, oh, I'm gonna, 707 00:39:20,760 --> 00:39:22,080 Speaker 2: you know, get shot at and I'm going to go 708 00:39:22,160 --> 00:39:24,560 Speaker 2: try to save lives like we just saw the Nashville 709 00:39:24,640 --> 00:39:28,040 Speaker 2: police do. I don't think that I'm particularly a physically 710 00:39:28,360 --> 00:39:32,319 Speaker 2: brave person, right like I'm not. I don't know. I've never, 711 00:39:32,480 --> 00:39:34,600 Speaker 2: you know, ever had to use a weapon in a 712 00:39:35,080 --> 00:39:39,400 Speaker 2: situation of violence. But I respect the fearlessness that involved. 713 00:39:39,640 --> 00:39:43,839 Speaker 2: But what I am fearless on is mentally right. I 714 00:39:43,880 --> 00:39:50,400 Speaker 2: am willing and able to take risks mentally and analyze risk. 715 00:39:50,480 --> 00:39:52,840 Speaker 2: I think that's ultimately what COVID was right. It was 716 00:39:52,880 --> 00:39:55,799 Speaker 2: an intelligence test to see whether you could look at 717 00:39:55,840 --> 00:39:59,799 Speaker 2: the data and rationally analyze risk and make decisions not 718 00:39:59,840 --> 00:40:01,879 Speaker 2: only for you but for your family. So I would 719 00:40:01,880 --> 00:40:04,440 Speaker 2: hope that they would work incredibly hard at whatever they 720 00:40:04,440 --> 00:40:06,680 Speaker 2: decide to pursue. I would hope that they would be 721 00:40:06,760 --> 00:40:10,280 Speaker 2: fearless it could be either physical or mentally in their life, 722 00:40:10,320 --> 00:40:13,120 Speaker 2: that they would not allow risk to keep them from 723 00:40:13,160 --> 00:40:15,880 Speaker 2: pursuing that which they care about the most. And I 724 00:40:15,880 --> 00:40:18,000 Speaker 2: would hope that they would one day get married and 725 00:40:18,000 --> 00:40:21,799 Speaker 2: be really good dads and have as many kids as 726 00:40:21,800 --> 00:40:24,680 Speaker 2: they can, because that's the one thing. I'm happy. I've 727 00:40:24,719 --> 00:40:27,040 Speaker 2: got three, but I would have kept going four or five, six, 728 00:40:27,160 --> 00:40:29,719 Speaker 2: I mean, if we could. You know, I've got the 729 00:40:29,760 --> 00:40:31,719 Speaker 2: resources to be able to take care of them now. 730 00:40:31,960 --> 00:40:33,239 Speaker 2: But I would hope that they would have a lot 731 00:40:33,280 --> 00:40:36,200 Speaker 2: of kids and be great dads and raise young kids. 732 00:40:36,360 --> 00:40:39,160 Speaker 2: Who can you know, I'm forty four now, I got 733 00:40:39,239 --> 00:40:41,640 Speaker 2: let's say forty years left to live. Ish, you know, 734 00:40:41,680 --> 00:40:44,480 Speaker 2: we'll see. I would like to think that I'll be 735 00:40:44,520 --> 00:40:48,120 Speaker 2: able to be around my grandkids and that they will 736 00:40:48,440 --> 00:40:52,120 Speaker 2: embody some of those traits to help make America a 737 00:40:52,120 --> 00:40:54,560 Speaker 2: better place as the generations passed. 738 00:40:55,040 --> 00:40:59,040 Speaker 1: Man, these are some crazy, big questions. And yeah, I 739 00:40:59,080 --> 00:41:03,719 Speaker 1: mean it's a great answer. I love be fearless and yeah, 740 00:41:03,719 --> 00:41:06,080 Speaker 1: so in that vein what's next for you? What's next 741 00:41:06,120 --> 00:41:07,840 Speaker 1: for OutKick? What's on the horizon? 742 00:41:08,200 --> 00:41:10,640 Speaker 2: I would like to think that OutKick can become a 743 00:41:10,719 --> 00:41:13,160 Speaker 2: top five sports site over the next couple of years. 744 00:41:13,200 --> 00:41:16,320 Speaker 2: And I think that's important because we're punching back and 745 00:41:16,400 --> 00:41:19,040 Speaker 2: holding people accountable. And what I would just say is, 746 00:41:19,640 --> 00:41:23,160 Speaker 2: I'm a big marketplace of ideas. Guy. The bigger OutKick gets, 747 00:41:23,600 --> 00:41:26,520 Speaker 2: the more people I think, in a public eye, for instance, 748 00:41:26,560 --> 00:41:30,200 Speaker 2: in sports, feel comfortable knowing that there's going to be 749 00:41:30,280 --> 00:41:32,640 Speaker 2: somebody to defend them. They're not just going to get 750 00:41:32,719 --> 00:41:36,800 Speaker 2: ripped to shreds if they say, hey, men should compete 751 00:41:36,800 --> 00:41:38,640 Speaker 2: against men and women should compete against women. And I'll 752 00:41:38,640 --> 00:41:42,000 Speaker 2: give a credit Sage Steel and Sam Ponder too. You know, 753 00:41:42,200 --> 00:41:46,680 Speaker 2: high profile ESPN anchors who are women came out today 754 00:41:46,719 --> 00:41:50,879 Speaker 2: to defend Riley Gaines publicly. I think that's significant, right. 755 00:41:51,000 --> 00:41:54,520 Speaker 2: I think they're recognizing that there are stakes for me. 756 00:41:54,640 --> 00:41:57,200 Speaker 2: You know, I got a book coming out in September. 757 00:41:57,239 --> 00:42:00,799 Speaker 2: I'm not a five year plan guy. I like. I 758 00:42:00,800 --> 00:42:02,640 Speaker 2: think it's hard to project where in the world the 759 00:42:02,680 --> 00:42:05,040 Speaker 2: country is going to be. I wouldn't have predicted if 760 00:42:05,080 --> 00:42:07,680 Speaker 2: we were talking in twenty eighteen. I don't think I 761 00:42:07,680 --> 00:42:10,040 Speaker 2: would have ever seen where we'd be in twenty twenty three. 762 00:42:11,200 --> 00:42:14,799 Speaker 2: So I feel fortunate when I sold out Kick, my 763 00:42:14,880 --> 00:42:18,080 Speaker 2: family is taken care of financially. You know, I kid 764 00:42:18,080 --> 00:42:19,600 Speaker 2: with my wife that at some point I'm just going 765 00:42:19,640 --> 00:42:21,480 Speaker 2: to grab my phone and throw it as far as 766 00:42:21,520 --> 00:42:24,759 Speaker 2: I can into the ocean and vanish for a while. 767 00:42:24,880 --> 00:42:26,960 Speaker 2: She doesn't ever think I'll be willing to do it. 768 00:42:27,920 --> 00:42:29,960 Speaker 2: But you know, I'm locked in for the next couple 769 00:42:30,000 --> 00:42:33,440 Speaker 2: of years with Fox, and then we'll see what opportunities 770 00:42:33,520 --> 00:42:36,360 Speaker 2: kind of are are out there and what makes the 771 00:42:36,400 --> 00:42:39,120 Speaker 2: most sense. Like I said, I like challenges. I'm not 772 00:42:39,160 --> 00:42:41,840 Speaker 2: sure what the next challenge will be, but I feel fortunate. 773 00:42:41,880 --> 00:42:44,680 Speaker 2: Look my grandfather was a coal miner. He had an 774 00:42:44,680 --> 00:42:48,840 Speaker 2: eighth grade education. I'm named after him from Muelenberg County, Kentucky. 775 00:42:48,920 --> 00:42:52,640 Speaker 2: Came down worked his entire life at DuPont. You know, 776 00:42:52,920 --> 00:42:55,719 Speaker 2: he didn't have a lot of options, right, He had 777 00:42:55,760 --> 00:42:58,800 Speaker 2: to go and punch a clock every day. My great 778 00:42:58,800 --> 00:43:03,320 Speaker 2: grandfather from the Sam Travis family died of black lung disease. 779 00:43:04,200 --> 00:43:06,440 Speaker 2: They don't have You know, a lot of people don't 780 00:43:06,480 --> 00:43:09,160 Speaker 2: have options because they're just worried about having a job 781 00:43:09,160 --> 00:43:11,759 Speaker 2: and taking care of their families every day. These are 782 00:43:11,760 --> 00:43:14,440 Speaker 2: the people who are backbone in my opinion of America. 783 00:43:14,520 --> 00:43:18,800 Speaker 2: I feel fortunate to have options, but I also want 784 00:43:18,920 --> 00:43:22,640 Speaker 2: it to be clear, like I don't have a tough job. 785 00:43:23,000 --> 00:43:25,040 Speaker 2: So the idea that I would ever be like, oh 786 00:43:25,120 --> 00:43:27,360 Speaker 2: I'm working too hard, I can't do X, or I 787 00:43:27,360 --> 00:43:29,560 Speaker 2: can't do why. It feels like it would be an 788 00:43:29,640 --> 00:43:33,000 Speaker 2: insult to the people before me who worked so hard 789 00:43:33,080 --> 00:43:35,479 Speaker 2: so that I could have an opportunity. Look, I'm sitting 790 00:43:35,520 --> 00:43:37,719 Speaker 2: in my chair right now. This is my microphone. I 791 00:43:37,760 --> 00:43:40,040 Speaker 2: sit and talking to a microphone. This is not a 792 00:43:40,040 --> 00:43:43,160 Speaker 2: physically difficult and demanding job. I'd like to think that 793 00:43:43,280 --> 00:43:45,200 Speaker 2: I could have an influence and continue to do this 794 00:43:45,320 --> 00:43:48,680 Speaker 2: long into the future. But I feel an obligation. Like 795 00:43:48,719 --> 00:43:50,759 Speaker 2: I said earlier, if I want my boys to work 796 00:43:50,800 --> 00:43:53,200 Speaker 2: super hard at something, I feel like they need to 797 00:43:53,200 --> 00:43:56,720 Speaker 2: see me their dad committing and working super hard at something. 798 00:43:57,280 --> 00:44:02,880 Speaker 1: Well. I think that's amazing, ladies and gentlemen. Clay Travis Clay, 799 00:44:02,960 --> 00:44:05,680 Speaker 1: thank you for coming on. Hey, everybody out there. If 800 00:44:05,719 --> 00:44:08,560 Speaker 1: you like what you hear, subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts, 801 00:44:08,680 --> 00:44:11,200 Speaker 1: or you can subscribe on YouTube. What sucks because they 802 00:44:11,280 --> 00:44:14,160 Speaker 1: just flagged me and they're demonicizing my channel. But if 803 00:44:14,160 --> 00:44:16,840 Speaker 1: but so, just go to Rumble and subscribe there, like 804 00:44:16,920 --> 00:44:19,439 Speaker 1: we need your help. God bless you all, and God 805 00:44:19,480 --> 00:44:23,000 Speaker 1: bless this exceptional nation that we live in. Thanks again, Clay, Thanks, 806 00:44:23,320 --> 00:44:24,719 Speaker 1: it was a lot of fun. Thank you all for 807 00:44:24,760 --> 00:44:28,160 Speaker 1: listening to the Battleground podcast, where we never retreat and 808 00:44:28,200 --> 00:44:32,640 Speaker 1: never surrender. Remember to subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts, 809 00:44:32,680 --> 00:44:36,520 Speaker 1: and also also follow us on YouTube and Rumble, and 810 00:44:36,600 --> 00:44:40,520 Speaker 1: don't forget to check out Battleground Apparel for top quality 811 00:44:40,600 --> 00:44:43,280 Speaker 1: patriotic clothing that lets you show your pride in America. 812 00:44:43,360 --> 00:44:45,200 Speaker 1: You can find all that stuff on Official Sean Parnell 813 00:44:45,280 --> 00:44:48,680 Speaker 1: dot com and together, let's continue to fight for our 814 00:44:48,719 --> 00:44:52,120 Speaker 1: country and never ever back down. God bless you all, 815 00:44:52,840 --> 00:44:56,680 Speaker 1: and make God continue to bless this exceptional nation that 816 00:44:56,719 --> 00:45:00,399 Speaker 1: we call home. Take care as