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Speaker 1: Novel. Hey listener. In this episode, we talk about domestic

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Speaker 1: violence and death. There's also a bunch of empowered women,

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Speaker 1: New York's feistiest young reporter, and an introduction to a

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Speaker 1: new woman with a great nickname, and of course more swearing,

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Speaker 1: because you know, I am who I am. If you

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Speaker 1: do listen and are impacted by any of our themes,

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Speaker 1: you can reach out to no More, a domestic violence

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Speaker 1: charity we've partnered with. They have lots of great resources

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Speaker 1: to help you or your loved ones. You can find

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Speaker 1: them at no More dot org. That's noo Moore dot org.

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Speaker 1: In November of nineteen ninety eight, shortly after the Horso

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Speaker 1: was removed from Gail's grave, Bob and Janet welcomed their

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Speaker 1: first child into the world, a daughter. The Club and

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Speaker 1: I learned that Janet was pregnant when the DA came

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Speaker 1: to Las Vegas. We talked about the baby every now

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Speaker 1: and then, wondering when the do date was and what

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Speaker 1: Bob would be like as a father. We didn't know anything,

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Speaker 1: but my god, we were curious. So can you imagine

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Speaker 1: how I felt. My producer Anna tracked down their nannies. Hi,

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Speaker 1: sorry for hanging up on you.

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Speaker 2: I just wanted to make sure it was free.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, good thing the beer and Bounce had two nannies,

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Speaker 1: one for the day and one for the night.

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Speaker 3: Hi.

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Speaker 1: Hi, how are you doing good?

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Speaker 4: How are you all?

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Speaker 1: I'm good. I'm good, Which means almost twenty four hour

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Speaker 1: visibility into Bob's North Dakota home. Now, the film recordings

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Speaker 1: aren't so good, but this is definitely one of the

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Speaker 1: most exciting eighty moments of our investigation because, knowing all

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Speaker 1: I know now, it feels like everyone had an external

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Speaker 1: view of Bob and min not they'd interact with him

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Speaker 1: as a patient or a neighbor. It was rarely as

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Speaker 1: intimate as someone sharing your home. I wanted to know

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Speaker 1: how Bob was behaving behind closed doors as the DA

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Speaker 1: prosecutors were closing in on him. I also just wanted

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Speaker 1: to know if Janet was okay and their daughter.

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Speaker 5: I was more involved with Janet, but Bob would come

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Speaker 5: in on Thursday or Fridays.

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Speaker 1: This is Barb Cooper, the day nanny.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, they feel real comfortable around either one of them, necessarily,

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Speaker 5: but I stuck it out. I loved the child and

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Speaker 5: loved what I was doing.

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Speaker 4: He was weird, he was bizarre. I've never met anyone

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Speaker 4: like him before.

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Speaker 1: That's Cheryl Sherrick, the night nanny. She used to arrive

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Speaker 1: in the evening and sleep in the basement with the baby,

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Speaker 1: who at that point required feeding every two to three hours.

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Speaker 4: The thing is they had a crip or anything. She's

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Speaker 4: left in a car seat, which is not very comfortable

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Speaker 4: for a baby.

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Speaker 1: For Cheryl, the vibe of the house was just well off,

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Speaker 1: especially when Bob was there.

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Speaker 4: The house was always closed up. I could never open

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Speaker 4: the blinds or anything, and he wouldn't let us answer.

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Speaker 6: The door to me.

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Speaker 4: She was always kind of creepy. They loved him as

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Speaker 4: a doctor's here, but he would never treat anyone that smoked.

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Speaker 4: He asked me if I smoked. If I did, they

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Speaker 4: wouldn't hire me.

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Speaker 1: Overall, the nanny seemed to remember a home a little

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Speaker 1: like this. The Beer and Bombs lived in a town

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Speaker 1: called Grand Forks. Bob would fly to work at the

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Speaker 1: hospital and min not and come back home for the weekends,

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Speaker 1: so it was mostly just Janet, the nannies, and their baby.

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Speaker 1: The nannies both described Janet as a loving mom who

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Speaker 1: could at times also be a little emotionless but they

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Speaker 1: never saw anything bad happen between her and Bob. When

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Speaker 1: Janet got pregnant, she stopped working as a gynecologist and

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Speaker 1: started studying law. She was also writing a bit on

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Speaker 1: the side, something she'd done a little before, even once

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Speaker 1: consulting on scripts for Er and Bob. He was being Bob.

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Speaker 1: He loved as badly behaved golden retriever, worked hard, and

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Speaker 1: flew a lot. One thing both nannies agree on was

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Speaker 1: he was really sweet with his daughter. He seemed to

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Speaker 1: love being a dad. But Cheryl did have one really

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Speaker 1: weird experience.

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Speaker 4: They had me in the basement and they slept upstairs.

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Speaker 4: There was one night he came into the nursery and

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Speaker 4: I woke up and he was watching me sleep, and

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Speaker 4: I don't know what he was planning to do, but

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Speaker 4: he took off.

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Speaker 1: I imagine at this point Bob felt invincible, But the fact

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Speaker 1: is he was being investigated that whole time. And on

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Speaker 1: the morning of November thirtieth, nineteen ninety eight, just three

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Speaker 1: weeks after his daughter was born, he was about to

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Speaker 1: get a rude awakening. I'm Carol Fisher and from the

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Speaker 1: teams at Novel and iHeartRadio, You're listening to The Girlfriends

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Speaker 1: episode seven Cowabunga.

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Speaker 6: We had pretty much finished our investigation, and we decided

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Speaker 6: that he had already spent literally tens of thousands of

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Speaker 6: dollars going across the country doing this investigation would be

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Speaker 6: worth a couple of plane tickets to North Dakota to

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Speaker 6: try and see what he had to say.

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Speaker 1: On November thirtieth, DA Prosecutor Dan Bibb sent the case

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Speaker 1: investigators Andy Rosenswag and Tommy Pond to mine Not with

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Speaker 1: the mission ask Bob if he was still represented by counsel,

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Speaker 1: and if not, get him to talk on the spot,

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Speaker 1: something they couldn't do if he was lawyered. Up that morning,

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Speaker 1: they lurked around Bob's clinic and waited for him to arrive.

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Speaker 1: When they spotted him approaching the building, they sped towards

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Speaker 1: him on foot and confronted him with their ready prepared script.

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Speaker 1: They had a feeling that Bob would see them coming,

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Speaker 1: that someone in Las Vegas would have told him that

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Speaker 1: they'd been sniffing around, but instead Bob just stood there

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Speaker 1: and stared back at them like a deer in headlights.

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Speaker 6: He basically says, I'm still represented by an attorney, and

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Speaker 6: that was that.

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Speaker 1: For Steve Sorako, the other prosecutor, it wasn't just about

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Speaker 1: getting him to talk though disguise his intel gathering, the

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Speaker 1: DA was sending a message.

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Speaker 7: What he knows is this is not over. This sense

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Speaker 7: of security I have up here up north. The veil

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Speaker 7: has been pierced and they're still looking at me. And

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Speaker 7: he knows he's guilty.

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Speaker 6: And within a half hour there's a phone call from

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Speaker 6: his lawyer and he said, Dan, this is Scott Greenfield.

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Speaker 6: What's going on. Well, we're investigating the disappearance of Gail

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Speaker 6: Burnbound and we want to know if he wanted to

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Speaker 6: talk to us. You know, there is out raised and

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Speaker 6: violing right the council. Scott, nobody violently anybody's right to council.

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Speaker 6: As soon as my guys opened their mouth, he said,

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Speaker 6: I'm represented by an attorney, and they walked away. Nobody

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Speaker 6: violated anything. And he said, are you going to the

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Speaker 6: grand jury? I can't tell you whether we are or

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Speaker 6: we are, so grand jury is a secret proceeding. Can't

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Speaker 6: do it in New York State. A defendant if he

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Speaker 6: is aware that there is a proceeding in the grand

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Speaker 6: jury going on that may involve him has an absolute

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Speaker 6: right to testify before that grand jury. Within a day

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Speaker 6: or two, I had a letter serving statutory notice that

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Speaker 6: doctor Burnbaum wanted to testify before the grand jury.

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Speaker 1: Dan knew that Bob was never actually going to testify

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Speaker 1: in front of the grand jury. That's pretty rare, but

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Speaker 1: it's a clever trick. Attorneys used to make sure they're

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Speaker 1: notified if a grand jury is ever assembled, then they

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Speaker 1: can keep tabs on the result and get their ducks

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Speaker 1: in a row. That's what Greenfield was doing. He was

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Speaker 1: essentially setting up a notification service, and nearly a year later,

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Speaker 1: on September twenty second, nineteen ninety nine, Greenfield got what

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Speaker 1: he was asking for.

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Speaker 6: I wrote him a letter saying, here you go, here's

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Speaker 6: your opportunity. And he called me up and he said,

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Speaker 6: what the hell, what are you doing? I said, Scott,

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Speaker 6: you serve notice. I just told you that the grand

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Speaker 6: jury is going on. What do you want to do.

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Speaker 1: At some point in late September or early October, Bob

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Speaker 1: was in New Jersey attending the wedding of his close

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Speaker 1: friend and flying buddy, Ernie Sussman. The night before the

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Speaker 1: big day, Ernie invited some of his closest friends, including

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Speaker 1: Bob and Janet, for dinner at an Italian restaurant.

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Speaker 3: I believe it was Friday evening, and I think there

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Speaker 3: were four couple so some of my friends. We went

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Speaker 3: out to a nice restaurant that evening, and I don't

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Speaker 3: know how the subject came up, but we were talking

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Speaker 3: about this doctor in Buffalo. His name was Anthony Pignataro,

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Speaker 3: and he ended up doing plastic surgery and doing I

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Speaker 3: guess liposuctions and even breast augments, even though he wasn't

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Speaker 3: a bird certified plastic surgeon, and he ended up killing

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Speaker 3: a woman. But like two thirds of the way into

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Speaker 3: the story, Bobby turned white. And I never saw him

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Speaker 3: break a sweat no matter what he did, whether he

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Speaker 3: was in surgery or flying in that bad weather, but

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Speaker 3: he just turned white like a ghost. And next thing,

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Speaker 3: you know, he told Johnny, you know, I'm tired. I

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Speaker 3: think we need to get going. After he left, we

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Speaker 3: made comment boy like he really blew out of here

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Speaker 3: in a hurry. It was just very unusual.

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Speaker 1: I can't say if Bob knew it or not, but

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Speaker 1: while he was running away from dinner parties in New Jersey.

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Speaker 1: Women around the country were being called to testify against

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Speaker 1: him in New York. A grand jury is a process

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Speaker 1: where sixteen to twenty three jurors are randomly selected to

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Speaker 1: come to court a few days a month, and here

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Speaker 1: prosecutors lay out their case, witnesses and all. There is

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Speaker 1: no judge, no defendant, and it's all in secret. At

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Speaker 1: the end of the process, which can last weeks or months,

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Speaker 1: the jurors decide if charges should be brought against the defendant.

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Speaker 1: A proper trial would then take place where they'll be

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Speaker 1: found guilty or not guilty. Now I'm explaining this because

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Speaker 1: I didn't understand what it meant when Dan and Steve

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Speaker 1: first reached out to me and asked me to testify.

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Speaker 1: The only thing I was sure of is I didn't

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Speaker 1: want to do it, so I refuse to go. Instead,

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Speaker 1: I spent the next few months wondering what was going on.

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Speaker 1: Sometimes curiosity would get the better of me, so me,

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Speaker 1: Mom and Mindy we would call up Bob's clinic in

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Speaker 1: North Dakota to see if he was still accepting appointments.

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Speaker 1: When the receptionist started to offer us dates or suggest

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Speaker 1: a consultation, we would hang up No arrest yet I

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Speaker 1: guess until tonight the doctor under arrest.

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Speaker 8: He's charged with killing his wife.

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Speaker 1: Tops say he dumped her body in the ocean, throwing

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Speaker 1: it from a plane. On December eighth, nineteen ninety nine,

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Speaker 1: the grand jury cast their vote.

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Speaker 9: Fourteen years ago, a surgeon in New York City reported

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Speaker 9: his wife missing. Now he's being charged with her murder.

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Speaker 9: The investigation went from Long Island to Las Vegas and

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Speaker 9: wound up in North Dakota.

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Speaker 1: In the days following the indictment, the news was everywhere

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Speaker 1: and they did not spare any details.

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Speaker 10: They say they have new witnesses, new evidence, enough to

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Speaker 10: build a murder case even without the body.

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Speaker 11: I remember the day I was getting ready for work.

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Speaker 1: This is Denise Cassenbaum, Gail's best friend.

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Speaker 8: I was getting dressed in my apartment and my sister call,

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Speaker 8: She said, turn on the news.

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Speaker 10: This almost reads like a screenplay. But what's scary is

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Speaker 10: that this is a true crime.

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Speaker 1: Turns out. Back in the nineties, news reporters were not

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Speaker 1: too concerned with holding back the details before they had

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Speaker 1: been proven in court.

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Speaker 10: A loving wife would complained constantly about our husband's violent temper,

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Speaker 10: but instead of getting away from him. She tried to

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Speaker 10: help and sadly paid for it with her life.

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Speaker 5: I was just like, oh my god, finally, you know,

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Speaker 5: I was screaming.

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Speaker 10: I was just Yes, she was never seen again, and

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Speaker 10: her family and cops didn't buy the doc's story.

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Speaker 12: We've always been certain that it was him.

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Speaker 13: He is the last person that saw her.

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Speaker 12: His story regarding her whereabouts and what happened never made

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Speaker 12: any sense.

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Speaker 13: Seeing in court being accused of murdering my sister was

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Speaker 13: such a relief.

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Speaker 12: I'm very gratified that after fourteen years, the person who

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Speaker 12: murdered my sister is finally standing in a courtroom being

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Speaker 12: charged with that murder. I'm only very very sorry that

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Speaker 12: my parents are not alive to be here to see this.

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Speaker 12: And I told him responsible for their deaths as well,

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Speaker 12: because they died of a broken heart.

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Speaker 10: This was a tireless investigation. Believe me, For two das,

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Speaker 10: here are two guys that you don't want after you

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Speaker 10: if you're the bad guy.

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Speaker 6: Steve and I had agreed that we would be seeking

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Speaker 6: half a million dollars baill, so we asked her five

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Speaker 6: hundred thousand dollars and the attorney goes, yeah, okay, no,

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Speaker 6: Megan Beer, and Baum.

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Speaker 10: Was released after putting up a half million bucks in bail. Now,

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Speaker 10: if he's convicted of murder too, the doc's next big

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Speaker 10: trip will be upstate for the comfort of a four

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Speaker 10: x eight cel twenty five years to life.

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Speaker 1: I guess me and the other girl old friends were

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Speaker 1: onto something all along, and it turns out another woman

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Speaker 1: was too. When Bob was charged with Gail's murder, it

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Speaker 1: was like a punch to the gut. Everybody wanted to

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Speaker 1: talk about it, but I didn't have enough wind left

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Speaker 1: in me to say his name. Instead, they'd call Mindy

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Speaker 1: to ask for the latest gossip. But everything it changed.

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Speaker 1: It was a real case now, with the real victim

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Speaker 1: and a real potential murderer. Even Mindy wasn't excited by

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Speaker 1: that anymore.

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Speaker 11: There was a shift from the sensational and the speculative

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Speaker 11: to the real and present, so it was no longer funny.

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Speaker 1: We were really starting to doubt ourselves. If, like the

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Speaker 1: investigators were saying, this case hinged on the testimony of

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Speaker 1: all of us women who knew Bob, then what if

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Speaker 1: we had gotten it wrong. What if we'd let in

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Speaker 1: our game go too far?

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Speaker 11: What if he's not guilty, will he come after us

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Speaker 11: for slander? And if he is guilty, will he come

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Speaker 11: after us?

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Speaker 1: After us? But little did we know that while we

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Speaker 1: were starting to doubt ourselves, another girlfriend was about to surface.

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Speaker 6: It was right after Burnbaum had been indicted. I got

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Speaker 6: a phone call from a woman and she refused to

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Speaker 6: identify herself. And she actually says to me, oh my god,

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Speaker 6: I slept with this guy right after his wife disappeared.

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Speaker 6: And I'm literally on the phone motioning to Steve to

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Speaker 6: come into my office and basically telling him there's somebody

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Speaker 6: we need to talk to.

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Speaker 7: I said, what's it all about, Goodwill, there's another one

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Speaker 7: of his one of her better word girlfriends has just surfaced.

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Speaker 6: She refused to identify herself. She said, I'm afraid of him.

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Speaker 6: She said. She called me back in a couple of days.

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Speaker 6: A couple of days later, phone rings. It's the woman

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Speaker 6: I had spoken to a day or two before, and

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Speaker 6: she said, I'm Cary Carojuana.

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Speaker 14: I know Bob Bernbaum. We worked together in my Minas

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Speaker 14: Medical Center in Brooklyn in nineteen eighty four nineteen eighty five,

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Speaker 14: and this is my story.

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Speaker 6: I said, we'll see in a day or two booked

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00:17:45,480 --> 00:17:49,360
Speaker 6: flights to San Francisco, flew in one day, drove down

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Speaker 6: to San Jose. Next we met in the diner of

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Speaker 6: all places, and sat there while she told us the story.

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Speaker 1: And told them that when she first met Bob, she

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Speaker 1: was a nurse working on the cardiovascular unit where Bob

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00:18:06,080 --> 00:18:10,080
Speaker 1: was undertaking a residency as a surgical intern. She didn't

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00:18:10,119 --> 00:18:13,480
Speaker 1: think much of them. He'd gotten a reputation for having

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Speaker 1: a terrible bedside manner with patients and their families, and

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Speaker 1: he was rude to the nurses. But outside of work,

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00:18:21,359 --> 00:18:23,760
Speaker 1: they had attended the same parties, and they would go

293
00:18:23,800 --> 00:18:26,800
Speaker 1: to clubs or restaurants with the other young hospital staff.

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00:18:27,760 --> 00:18:30,720
Speaker 1: Karen even met Gail a few times, only enough to

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Speaker 1: make introductions, but she remembers her as small and submissive.

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Speaker 1: There was always a feeling that things were just not right.

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Speaker 15: He was at the nurses station in the cardiovscer I

298
00:18:44,119 --> 00:18:48,560
Speaker 15: see you, and he was yelling at somebody on the phone,

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Speaker 15: and it was obvious it was Gail that he was

300
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Speaker 15: talking to, and I had to tell him a couple times,

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Speaker 15: you know, please lower your voice. I mean, the nurses

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Speaker 15: station was right next to where we recovered patients. From

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00:19:01,440 --> 00:19:04,480
Speaker 15: open heart surgery. It wasn't appropriate for him to be

304
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Speaker 15: yelling at anybody at the nurses station.

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00:19:08,000 --> 00:19:11,800
Speaker 1: Whatever people thought about Bob and Gail's relationship, when Gail

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00:19:11,880 --> 00:19:14,440
Speaker 1: went missing, it shook the staff.

307
00:19:15,320 --> 00:19:17,639
Speaker 15: I remember the first time I saw him come back.

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00:19:18,280 --> 00:19:22,680
Speaker 15: He looked horrible. He hadn't shaved, he was very disheveled.

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Speaker 15: There evidently had been no word as to where she

310
00:19:26,119 --> 00:19:28,880
Speaker 15: was or if she had run away, if something had

311
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Speaker 15: happened to her and someone had taken her. We didn't know.

312
00:19:32,760 --> 00:19:36,080
Speaker 15: In fact, I do remember going out to Central Park

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Speaker 15: with people that I worked with, nurses, and we put

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Speaker 15: up posters in Central Park with her picture.

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Speaker 1: Sometime at the end of July, about three weeks after

316
00:19:47,440 --> 00:19:50,760
Speaker 1: Gail went missing, Karen rented a little beach house in

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Speaker 1: the Hamptons for the week, just a vacation. Before she left,

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Speaker 1: one of her colleagues told her that Bob was also

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Speaker 1: going to be out in the Hamptons that week.

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Speaker 15: She had said, you know, why don't you get together

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Speaker 15: with Bob. Maybe you could go out to dinner with him,

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Speaker 15: give him some companionship. He's really lost without Gail.

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Speaker 1: So Karen obliged. After arriving in the Hampton's, She drove

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Speaker 1: over to his rental house, which was a really large

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Speaker 1: building with the pool just away from the ocean. Karen

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00:20:24,720 --> 00:20:27,320
Speaker 1: parked her car and Bob drove them out to a

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Speaker 1: seafood restaurant on the water in sag Harbor. Over the meal,

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Speaker 1: she started gently probing Bob for information about Gail.

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Speaker 15: He said that in the last month he had hired

330
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Speaker 15: a private investigator and they found Gail in California and

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Speaker 15: she was waiting tables on the coast. I mean, it

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Speaker 15: didn't sound totally right, but he kind of convinced me

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Speaker 15: that that was what he knew. At the time.

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Speaker 6: What Bob had told Karen was a lie. We spoke

335
00:21:00,840 --> 00:21:05,000
Speaker 6: to the investigator and the investigator said, absolutely not, that's

336
00:21:05,040 --> 00:21:10,080
Speaker 6: not true, but never found evidence of Gail anywhere.

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00:21:10,720 --> 00:21:13,960
Speaker 1: Bob also described how Gail was a difficult wife and

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Speaker 1: how on the day she went missing, they'd had a

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Speaker 1: big argument.

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Speaker 15: They said she had no shoes on, and I said

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Speaker 15: to him, I said, who lives in New York City

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Speaker 15: and doesn't wear shoes to walk to Central Park from

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Speaker 15: their apartment.

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Speaker 6: Again, another embellishment lie about what had happened that morning.

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Speaker 1: Sitting in the diner, Dan and Steve knew they'd stumbled

346
00:21:37,000 --> 00:21:40,600
Speaker 1: onto something big. These are exactly the kinds of details

347
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Speaker 1: they wanted, Bob telling different versions of Gail's disappearance, Bob lying.

348
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Speaker 1: They even gave their new star witness.

349
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Speaker 7: A nickname, Karen Cawabunga Karen Cowabunga.

350
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Speaker 1: When Dan and Steve saw Karen Cowabunga, they saw a

351
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Speaker 1: star witness. But I just see myself because just like me.

352
00:22:01,720 --> 00:22:05,840
Speaker 1: After Bob told Karen all about Gayle's disappearance, she still

353
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Speaker 1: went home with him.

354
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Speaker 15: I mean, he was different than he had been. I

355
00:22:10,520 --> 00:22:13,240
Speaker 15: went from dreading even talking to him at work, to

356
00:22:13,680 --> 00:22:18,159
Speaker 15: really sympathizing with his plight. I hadn't been with anybody

357
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Speaker 15: in a while, so I think I was probably lonely horny,

358
00:22:23,280 --> 00:22:27,520
Speaker 15: I cass, you could say. I mean, he was pretty persuasive,

359
00:22:28,320 --> 00:22:34,800
Speaker 15: and I remember climbing upstairs to the bedroom.

360
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Speaker 1: Back in New York, they kept seeing each other. They'd

361
00:22:38,119 --> 00:22:41,520
Speaker 1: go out for Japanese food, they went dancing in clubs

362
00:22:41,600 --> 00:22:44,680
Speaker 1: down in the West Village. On the weekends, Bob would

363
00:22:44,720 --> 00:22:47,600
Speaker 1: go back to the Hampton's and party at West Hampton

364
00:22:47,720 --> 00:22:51,920
Speaker 1: Beach's famous club, the Marrakesh. He ditched his ll Bean

365
00:22:52,000 --> 00:22:55,840
Speaker 1: clothing for Saturday Night Fever shirts with the shirttails tucked

366
00:22:55,880 --> 00:22:58,640
Speaker 1: right in. All of this just a month or two

367
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Speaker 1: after his wife had dispeared.

368
00:23:01,240 --> 00:23:04,119
Speaker 15: I was still having fun with him at that point,

369
00:23:04,119 --> 00:23:07,840
Speaker 15: probably not even thinking about Gail, I'll be honest. And

370
00:23:07,960 --> 00:23:08,800
Speaker 15: he wasn't either.

371
00:23:09,760 --> 00:23:13,280
Speaker 1: But after only six weeks of dating, Karen says, their

372
00:23:13,320 --> 00:23:16,040
Speaker 1: relationship literally hit the curb.

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Speaker 15: We had gone out to dinner and we argued at

374
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Speaker 15: the restaurant and we were in a cab. My recollection

375
00:23:26,600 --> 00:23:28,760
Speaker 15: is a little bit fuzzy, just because I think I

376
00:23:28,840 --> 00:23:31,960
Speaker 15: was pretty drunk at the time, but I remember the

377
00:23:32,040 --> 00:23:35,680
Speaker 15: cab was still moving, and somehow he had pushed me

378
00:23:35,800 --> 00:23:41,320
Speaker 15: out of the door onto the curb. And I remember

379
00:23:41,480 --> 00:23:43,399
Speaker 15: my best friend in New York at the time was

380
00:23:43,600 --> 00:23:46,720
Speaker 15: woman Carol, who was a nurse at my Moonodes and

381
00:23:46,800 --> 00:23:51,160
Speaker 15: I called her and I was hysterical, crying. And I've

382
00:23:51,200 --> 00:23:54,320
Speaker 15: talked to her since and she said I kept saying

383
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Speaker 15: that he hurt me. He hurt me.

384
00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:02,280
Speaker 1: Reached out to Bob for comment on this, but he

385
00:24:02,400 --> 00:24:07,880
Speaker 1: never responded. These stories, like Bob allegedly pushing a woman

386
00:24:07,920 --> 00:24:10,920
Speaker 1: out of a moving car are the ones I care

387
00:24:11,000 --> 00:24:14,800
Speaker 1: about most. In fact, there's a lot I wish i'd

388
00:24:14,880 --> 00:24:17,920
Speaker 1: known before I met Bob, some of which never made

389
00:24:17,960 --> 00:24:43,680
Speaker 1: it into trial. That's after the break. On a warm

390
00:24:43,800 --> 00:24:47,800
Speaker 1: day in early August two thousand, a young New York

391
00:24:47,840 --> 00:24:51,640
Speaker 1: Times reporter by the name of Catherine Eban walked into

392
00:24:51,720 --> 00:24:54,520
Speaker 1: the Manhattan Criminal Court for the first time.

393
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Speaker 2: I was completely new to legal reporting, but the beat

394
00:25:00,800 --> 00:25:03,399
Speaker 2: had been sold to me. As you develop sources for

395
00:25:03,520 --> 00:25:06,879
Speaker 2: life and you cover interesting trials, so you get a

396
00:25:06,880 --> 00:25:08,120
Speaker 2: lot of ink that way.

397
00:25:09,119 --> 00:25:11,800
Speaker 1: Catherine had been told that if you want to get

398
00:25:11,840 --> 00:25:14,600
Speaker 1: ahead on the biggest cases, you have to cover the

399
00:25:14,680 --> 00:25:18,879
Speaker 1: pre trial hearings to secure an early scoop. The only

400
00:25:18,960 --> 00:25:22,320
Speaker 1: problem is it was notoriously boring, you know.

401
00:25:22,320 --> 00:25:27,959
Speaker 2: Not necessarily considered a plum beat, because you're sitting in

402
00:25:28,000 --> 00:25:32,359
Speaker 2: this dusty old press room and there's just a lot

403
00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:36,240
Speaker 2: of stuff you have to cover that is not necessarily fascinating.

404
00:25:36,720 --> 00:25:39,160
Speaker 2: But this was the first one.

405
00:25:39,359 --> 00:25:42,400
Speaker 1: The interesting thing about this stage in the legal process

406
00:25:42,680 --> 00:25:45,240
Speaker 1: is that the hearings are close to everyone apart from

407
00:25:45,320 --> 00:25:50,200
Speaker 1: the press, judge, lawyers, defendants and witnesses who were summoned.

408
00:25:51,040 --> 00:25:53,840
Speaker 1: So Catherine was one of the only people present during

409
00:25:53,880 --> 00:25:57,560
Speaker 1: Bob's pre trial hearing, not even a lane was invited

410
00:25:57,560 --> 00:26:00,000
Speaker 1: in consider this a sneak peek.

411
00:26:02,440 --> 00:26:06,840
Speaker 2: I remember it vividly because it was August and the

412
00:26:06,880 --> 00:26:10,680
Speaker 2: air conditioning in this courtroom was insane, and it was

413
00:26:11,240 --> 00:26:13,960
Speaker 2: absolutely empty. I was one of the few people sitting

414
00:26:13,960 --> 00:26:18,359
Speaker 2: in the audience, shivering with cold with the judge up there.

415
00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:22,520
Speaker 8: My name is Leslie Crocker Snyder, and I was the

416
00:26:22,600 --> 00:26:26,600
Speaker 8: judge who presided over the Barenbaum case in two thousand.

417
00:26:27,560 --> 00:26:31,800
Speaker 8: Some of the defendants called me the ice Princess, which

418
00:26:31,840 --> 00:26:34,119
Speaker 8: was kind of ridiculous because actually I'm a very warm,

419
00:26:34,240 --> 00:26:36,560
Speaker 8: outgoing person, but not on the bench.

420
00:26:37,040 --> 00:26:40,879
Speaker 2: I think sometimes Berreenbaum wasn't even there, so it was

421
00:26:41,080 --> 00:26:44,480
Speaker 2: just his lawyers, and as I sat listening, this kind

422
00:26:44,480 --> 00:26:48,560
Speaker 2: of remarkable story was unfolding, and I got very interested

423
00:26:48,600 --> 00:26:48,840
Speaker 2: in it.

424
00:26:51,119 --> 00:26:54,520
Speaker 1: The primary purpose of pretrial hearings is for the judge

425
00:26:54,560 --> 00:26:59,159
Speaker 1: to decide what testimonial evidence is permissible in court. In

426
00:26:59,240 --> 00:27:01,880
Speaker 1: Bob's case, this process went on for the best part

427
00:27:01,880 --> 00:27:04,560
Speaker 1: of nine months, and in that time they covered a

428
00:27:04,600 --> 00:27:08,280
Speaker 1: lot of ground. But for the prosecution, there was one

429
00:27:08,480 --> 00:27:13,240
Speaker 1: major argument whether or not the psychiatrist's testimony should be included.

430
00:27:16,280 --> 00:27:20,119
Speaker 1: After Bob strangled Gail in nineteen eighty three, she demanded

431
00:27:20,160 --> 00:27:23,359
Speaker 1: that he went to therapy. His first appointment was with

432
00:27:23,440 --> 00:27:27,239
Speaker 1: doctor Stanley Bone, who after one session asked Bob if

433
00:27:27,280 --> 00:27:30,119
Speaker 1: he could talk to Gaile on the phone. Like I said,

434
00:27:30,200 --> 00:27:35,000
Speaker 1: Elaine wasn't there, but she requested the redacted transcripts afterwards.

435
00:27:35,680 --> 00:27:39,600
Speaker 1: Here she is reading doctor Stanley Bone's testimony from that

436
00:27:39,800 --> 00:27:41,399
Speaker 1: cold pre trial hearing.

437
00:27:42,560 --> 00:27:47,160
Speaker 13: Question did you call her essentially to warn her?

438
00:27:47,920 --> 00:27:48,160
Speaker 6: Yes?

439
00:27:49,240 --> 00:27:52,520
Speaker 13: Question and at that time did you warn her that

440
00:27:52,600 --> 00:27:56,359
Speaker 13: she may be in danger? And the witness said yes.

441
00:27:58,560 --> 00:28:02,080
Speaker 1: After just one session, doctor Bone called Gail to warn her,

442
00:28:02,119 --> 00:28:05,560
Speaker 1: and then he refused to treat Bob again. Instead, he

443
00:28:05,680 --> 00:28:10,160
Speaker 1: referred him to another psychiatrist named doctor Shelley Duran, who

444
00:28:10,240 --> 00:28:13,639
Speaker 1: deja vu also asked Bob if she could speak.

445
00:28:13,400 --> 00:28:16,119
Speaker 13: To Gail on the phone, and then the question was

446
00:28:16,560 --> 00:28:19,960
Speaker 13: did you feel at that time you had an ethical

447
00:28:20,160 --> 00:28:23,840
Speaker 13: duty to warn her that she might be in danger

448
00:28:24,160 --> 00:28:30,240
Speaker 13: from the defendant, and doctor Juran answered, I didn't know

449
00:28:30,960 --> 00:28:36,080
Speaker 13: if I would hear her voice.

450
00:28:36,160 --> 00:28:39,880
Speaker 1: Doctor Duran also refused to treat Bob again, and he

451
00:28:39,920 --> 00:28:44,440
Speaker 1: moved on to his third psychiatrist, doctor Michael Stone. Who

452
00:28:44,520 --> 00:28:49,600
Speaker 1: again after just one session, decided he needed to contact Gail.

453
00:28:50,200 --> 00:28:53,880
Speaker 1: He wrote her something called a Pterosov letter. That's the

454
00:28:54,000 --> 00:28:57,120
Speaker 1: letter Gail told Denise and Laine about the one she

455
00:28:57,280 --> 00:28:59,320
Speaker 1: was going to use to blackmail Bob.

456
00:29:03,960 --> 00:29:09,560
Speaker 13: It's on doctor Stone's letterhead Doctor Michael Stone, Central Park, West,

457
00:29:09,560 --> 00:29:14,200
Speaker 13: New York City. It's written to my sister, Gail Bierrembaum

458
00:29:14,240 --> 00:29:17,160
Speaker 13: in eighty fifth Street, and it says I have been

459
00:29:17,200 --> 00:29:21,880
Speaker 13: advised by doctor Stone that, for reasons of my own safety,

460
00:29:22,840 --> 00:29:25,320
Speaker 13: I should at this time live apart from my husband,

461
00:29:25,920 --> 00:29:32,280
Speaker 13: Doctor Robert Biurembaum. I further understand that, owing to the

462
00:29:32,400 --> 00:29:38,120
Speaker 13: unpredictable nature of my husband's physical assaults, and to the

463
00:29:38,200 --> 00:29:44,920
Speaker 13: chronic nature of the character logical abnormalities that underlie these assaults,

464
00:29:46,360 --> 00:29:50,680
Speaker 13: no firm date can as yet be fixed as to

465
00:29:50,880 --> 00:29:57,240
Speaker 13: when it might be safe to resume living together. If

466
00:29:57,240 --> 00:30:01,680
Speaker 13: I do not heed this advice, I must accept the consequences,

467
00:30:02,200 --> 00:30:08,200
Speaker 13: including the possibility of personal injury or death at the

468
00:30:08,200 --> 00:30:16,040
Speaker 13: hands of my husband, and absolve Doctor Stone of responsibility

469
00:30:16,560 --> 00:30:21,840
Speaker 13: for any such eventuality. And there's a line at the

470
00:30:21,920 --> 00:30:25,600
Speaker 13: end of it from my sister's signature, And I don't

471
00:30:25,600 --> 00:30:26,600
Speaker 13: believe she ever signed it.

472
00:30:31,680 --> 00:30:35,760
Speaker 1: The Pterosoft letter is named after a woman named Tatiana Terrasov,

473
00:30:36,040 --> 00:30:38,960
Speaker 1: who was murdered by her a strange boyfriend after he

474
00:30:39,080 --> 00:30:42,160
Speaker 1: told his therapist that he intended to kill her. The

475
00:30:42,280 --> 00:30:45,800
Speaker 1: legal requirement to send a letter like this was introduced

476
00:30:45,960 --> 00:30:49,040
Speaker 1: after it was determined that his therapist had an ethical

477
00:30:49,120 --> 00:30:53,479
Speaker 1: duty to warn Todtiana that she was in danger. In

478
00:30:53,520 --> 00:30:57,160
Speaker 1: addition to sending the Pterosoft letter, Doctor Stone gave Bob

479
00:30:57,200 --> 00:31:00,480
Speaker 1: an offer. He said he would continue to treat under

480
00:31:00,520 --> 00:31:05,360
Speaker 1: two conditions. First, doctor Stone asked to talk to Bob's parents,

481
00:31:05,880 --> 00:31:07,719
Speaker 1: and then he said he wanted them to pay for

482
00:31:07,760 --> 00:31:10,840
Speaker 1: his life insurance just in case anything should happen to

483
00:31:10,920 --> 00:31:14,760
Speaker 1: him as a result of treating their son. Bob refused

484
00:31:14,760 --> 00:31:18,040
Speaker 1: the insurance request, but he did let doctor Stone talk

485
00:31:18,080 --> 00:31:19,080
Speaker 1: to his mom and dad.

486
00:31:20,280 --> 00:31:25,160
Speaker 2: Of course, Beerenbaum's attorneys did not want this testimony introduced

487
00:31:25,680 --> 00:31:30,240
Speaker 2: because it spoke to his motive, and the psychiatric associations

488
00:31:30,280 --> 00:31:34,280
Speaker 2: in the day were watching this case closely because of

489
00:31:34,320 --> 00:31:38,240
Speaker 2: the battle over whether this testimony was going to be admissible.

490
00:31:38,920 --> 00:31:43,000
Speaker 2: So that turned out to be a very rich vein

491
00:31:43,320 --> 00:31:48,800
Speaker 2: for reporting the implications for patient confidentiality were pretty profound.

492
00:31:49,920 --> 00:31:53,320
Speaker 1: It's truly damning evidence, but if the judge let it in,

493
00:31:53,680 --> 00:31:57,000
Speaker 1: it would be setting a dangerous precedent for future cases,

494
00:31:57,240 --> 00:31:59,280
Speaker 1: and who knows how that could be exploited.

495
00:32:00,160 --> 00:32:06,040
Speaker 6: Our argument was that since Bob had authorized doctor Stone

496
00:32:06,160 --> 00:32:10,440
Speaker 6: to share information about their sessions with Gail and with

497
00:32:10,600 --> 00:32:16,280
Speaker 6: his parents, that that was a waiver of privilege. The

498
00:32:16,360 --> 00:32:17,600
Speaker 6: judge disagreed with us.

499
00:32:18,840 --> 00:32:22,600
Speaker 8: I made some rulings that I think both sides thought

500
00:32:22,640 --> 00:32:25,840
Speaker 8: were controversial, in that I would not allow the three

501
00:32:25,920 --> 00:32:32,120
Speaker 8: doctors to testify on the ground that although the doctors

502
00:32:32,240 --> 00:32:35,040
Speaker 8: and the defendant had spoken to other people, namely the

503
00:32:35,040 --> 00:32:40,920
Speaker 8: defendant's parents and to Gail Berenbaum, Nevertheless, the doctor patient

504
00:32:40,960 --> 00:32:45,520
Speaker 8: privilege had not been waived because the people to whom

505
00:32:45,720 --> 00:32:50,400
Speaker 8: the relationship was disclosed were only involved so that the

506
00:32:50,560 --> 00:32:54,880
Speaker 8: psychologists could aid the defendant in his treatment.

507
00:32:55,640 --> 00:32:58,080
Speaker 1: We don't know exactly what it was that made the

508
00:32:58,120 --> 00:33:02,080
Speaker 1: psychiatrists react to Bob the way they did, but my producer,

509
00:33:02,160 --> 00:33:04,840
Speaker 1: Anna has been looking into it, and this is what

510
00:33:04,880 --> 00:33:10,440
Speaker 1: we learned based on interviews doctor Stone had previously given.

511
00:33:10,840 --> 00:33:14,280
Speaker 1: Anna learned that during his first session with Bob, while

512
00:33:14,280 --> 00:33:17,800
Speaker 1: discussing the time he strangled Gil for smoking. Bob told

513
00:33:17,880 --> 00:33:20,560
Speaker 1: doctor Stone it was not the first time he had

514
00:33:20,600 --> 00:33:24,760
Speaker 1: strangled a woman. Back when Bob was still a medical intern,

515
00:33:25,120 --> 00:33:27,960
Speaker 1: before he even met Gail, he was engaged to a

516
00:33:28,000 --> 00:33:32,200
Speaker 1: girl he met in medical school. In these interviews, Stone

517
00:33:32,240 --> 00:33:35,320
Speaker 1: said Bob told him that not only did he strangle her,

518
00:33:35,720 --> 00:33:38,239
Speaker 1: but he also admitted to killing her cat in a

519
00:33:38,240 --> 00:33:45,960
Speaker 1: fit of rage after they broke up. We have tried

520
00:33:45,960 --> 00:33:49,520
Speaker 1: to confirm the story about Bob's first fiance, but sadly,

521
00:33:49,560 --> 00:33:52,479
Speaker 1: the woman in question died from cancer last year and

522
00:33:52,560 --> 00:33:57,320
Speaker 1: she'd never spoken publicly about her relationship with Bob. Anna

523
00:33:57,400 --> 00:34:00,120
Speaker 1: did track down her family, who said she was a

524
00:34:00,200 --> 00:34:04,320
Speaker 1: very private person, but over a series of texts, her

525
00:34:04,400 --> 00:34:08,319
Speaker 1: sister confirmed that Bob had been abusive towards her. She

526
00:34:08,400 --> 00:34:11,919
Speaker 1: didn't know the details, But the fact is this, if

527
00:34:11,960 --> 00:34:16,280
Speaker 1: doctor Michael Stone is telling the truth, this information comes

528
00:34:16,280 --> 00:34:21,439
Speaker 1: from Bob himself. Either way, There's something about these pre

529
00:34:21,520 --> 00:34:25,480
Speaker 1: trials that I find very hard to swallow. I understand

530
00:34:25,480 --> 00:34:28,680
Speaker 1: the point of the justice system. I understand the concept

531
00:34:28,719 --> 00:34:32,600
Speaker 1: of innocent until proven guilty, and I understand the importance

532
00:34:32,640 --> 00:34:35,880
Speaker 1: of doctor patient privilege. But as a woman who fell

533
00:34:35,920 --> 00:34:39,480
Speaker 1: for Bob's charms. These details that were held back feel

534
00:34:39,600 --> 00:34:45,359
Speaker 1: really significant to me. After the pre trials were over,

535
00:34:45,760 --> 00:34:49,120
Speaker 1: Dan and Steve's attention turned to prepping for the real thing.

536
00:34:50,000 --> 00:34:52,440
Speaker 6: It's very important. It's almost like a movie.

537
00:34:52,840 --> 00:34:56,040
Speaker 7: A trial is a production, and the order of witnesses

538
00:34:56,160 --> 00:34:58,280
Speaker 7: as to how they're going to impact and fit together

539
00:34:59,360 --> 00:35:01,120
Speaker 7: is something that has to be thought out. You just

540
00:35:01,160 --> 00:35:03,600
Speaker 7: told randomly pick names out of a hat. He'll be first,

541
00:35:03,600 --> 00:35:04,960
Speaker 7: he'll be second, she'll be third.

542
00:35:05,480 --> 00:35:08,560
Speaker 1: And that's when, after months of telling them I didn't

543
00:35:08,560 --> 00:35:14,440
Speaker 1: want to be involved, they subpoenaed me. I had to

544
00:35:14,480 --> 00:35:16,600
Speaker 1: go to New York. I had to stand in the

545
00:35:16,640 --> 00:35:19,760
Speaker 1: witness box and for the first time in four years,

546
00:35:20,280 --> 00:35:24,080
Speaker 1: I had to come face to face with my ex boyfriend, Bob.

547
00:35:26,680 --> 00:35:27,720
Speaker 1: That's next time.

548
00:35:28,080 --> 00:35:34,520
Speaker 8: On the girlfriends, they painted her as a woman with

549
00:35:34,560 --> 00:35:40,200
Speaker 8: a lot of problems, very needy, once suicidal, totally promiscuous.

550
00:35:40,680 --> 00:35:42,960
Speaker 8: It was quote unquote blaming the victim.

551
00:35:43,320 --> 00:35:46,000
Speaker 6: It's a five minute a quinta. If you believe this guy.

552
00:35:46,040 --> 00:35:48,399
Speaker 7: Once you're thinks she's alive. When we say he's dead,

553
00:35:48,719 --> 00:35:49,799
Speaker 7: that case is over.

554
00:35:50,239 --> 00:35:53,120
Speaker 6: There were audible gasps from the jury.

555
00:35:53,400 --> 00:35:57,719
Speaker 16: I remember turning to my brother and saying what did

556
00:35:57,760 --> 00:36:14,000
Speaker 16: they say?

557
00:36:17,239 --> 00:36:21,120
Speaker 1: The Girlfriends is produced by Novel for Ourheart Radio. For

558
00:36:21,360 --> 00:36:26,080
Speaker 1: more from Novel, visit novel dot Audio. The series is

559
00:36:26,080 --> 00:36:30,440
Speaker 1: hosted by me Carol Fisher and produced by Anna Sinfield.

560
00:36:31,800 --> 00:36:36,200
Speaker 1: Our assistant producer is Julian Manu Gera Patten, and our

561
00:36:36,239 --> 00:36:41,959
Speaker 1: researcher is Madeline Parr. The editor is Veronica Simmons. Max

562
00:36:42,000 --> 00:36:47,040
Speaker 1: O'Brien is our executive producer. Our fact checker is Valeria Rocca.

563
00:36:47,560 --> 00:36:53,080
Speaker 1: Production management from Sharie Houston and Charlotte woolf Sound design,

564
00:36:53,440 --> 00:36:59,280
Speaker 1: mixing and scoring by Daniel Kempsen and Nicholas Alexander. Music

565
00:36:59,320 --> 00:37:04,480
Speaker 1: supervision by Anna Sinfield. Original music composed by Luisa Gerstein.

566
00:37:05,200 --> 00:37:09,880
Speaker 1: Story development by Isaac Fisher. Willard Foxton is creative director

567
00:37:09,920 --> 00:37:15,600
Speaker 1: of Development. Special thanks to Shawn Glynn, David Waters, might

568
00:37:15,680 --> 00:37:21,480
Speaker 1: Lely Raw, Katrina Norvel, David Wasserman, and beth Anne Mcaluso.

569
00:37:27,440 --> 00:37:29,800
Speaker 1: We did reach out to Bob and his legal team

570
00:37:29,880 --> 00:37:32,440
Speaker 1: to ask if he'd like to comment on the podcast,

571
00:37:32,680 --> 00:37:34,000
Speaker 1: but we never heard back.

572
00:37:38,680 --> 00:37:39,040
Speaker 6: Novel