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Speaker 1: Natalie Wood was one of the most popular sought after

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Speaker 1: actresses in Hollywood. This is America, sweeth talk. This story

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Speaker 1: is huge. It was Thanksgiving weekend when Would and her

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Speaker 1: actor husband Robert Wagner went sailing on their yacht, The Splendor.

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Speaker 1: They were joined by actor and friend Christopher walkin This

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Speaker 1: is Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Wagner notified Captain Dennis

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Speaker 1: Davern that Would was not on board. Wagner, let's turn

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Speaker 1: on the searchlight to see if we can see her,

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Speaker 1: and he said, no, we don't want to do that

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Speaker 1: right now. Do you believe that maybe Robert Wagner has

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Speaker 1: been hiding the real truth of what happened that night

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Speaker 1: all these years? I fully believe that we ever seen

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Speaker 1: information which we felt was substantial enough to make us

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Speaker 1: take another look at this case. It's old information that

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Speaker 1: was never looked at, that should have been looked at.

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Speaker 1: She's a beautiful brunette, a mother. Once you look into

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Speaker 1: those brown eyes, you'll never forget them. And oh, yes,

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Speaker 1: she's dead. I'm talking about Natalie Would. Can you believe

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Speaker 1: the saga of her watery death goes on. It's still

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Speaker 1: not settled what happened to Natalie would was she murdered?

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Speaker 1: With me right now? The director of the Cold Case Institute,

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Speaker 1: Cheryl McCollum, I'm Nancy Grace. This is crime stories, you know, Cheryl.

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Speaker 1: I have never felt any degree of um. You know,

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Speaker 1: when we would try case, when we were both duking

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Speaker 1: it out in the courtroom. You finish the case, you

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Speaker 1: get a verdict, and you feel a sense of not

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Speaker 1: not really peace, but like you have achieved something. You

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Speaker 1: did it, it's done. Next. I've never felt that way

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Speaker 1: about Natalie Wood. I've never felt Okay, now I can

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Speaker 1: go onto the next case. Something right. Several things are

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Speaker 1: not right, but yeah, you just give that feeling that

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Speaker 1: it's unsettled. Um. Robert Wagner changing his story, The ship's

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Speaker 1: captain changing his story. The evidence that you know, there

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Speaker 1: was some type of struggle on board, there was some

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Speaker 1: type of fight. Um. The fact that they did not

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Speaker 1: search for her, even though he says he did on board,

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Speaker 1: there was evidence that he did not completely search that

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Speaker 1: boat for her. Well, what concerns me is they did

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Speaker 1: not completely search the boat for her. For the ship

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Speaker 1: and that night, according to reliable sources, Robert Wagner insisted

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Speaker 1: they not use the searchlight to try and find his

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Speaker 1: wife out in the water. I mean, that is just

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Speaker 1: the tip of the iceberg. Let's let's start at the

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Speaker 1: get go um with many special guest Cheryl McCullum, the

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Speaker 1: director and founder of the Cold Case Institute. Natalie Wood, superstar,

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Speaker 1: was found drowned near her yacht, repeat her yacht during

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Speaker 1: celebration Thanksgiving. The cause of death seemed to be apparent

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Speaker 1: that she drowned. But why was she out in the

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Speaker 1: middle of the ocean all by herself? Why was she

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Speaker 1: was she trying to escape something that had happened on

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Speaker 1: the boat. This is a woman, by all accounts, that

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Speaker 1: had a dread fear, a dread fear of water. In fact,

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Speaker 1: a so called fortune teller had foretold her death by

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Speaker 1: water many years before, and she had been afraid ever since.

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Speaker 1: She would even have night terrors about drowning, nightmares about it.

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Speaker 1: She would not put one little toe out in the ocean.

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Speaker 1: That just no, that was not gonna happen. And I'm

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Speaker 1: supposed to believe, Cheryl McCollum, that she and the husband,

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Speaker 1: now remember he was a TV star, she was the

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Speaker 1: movie star, and he made comments about it all the time.

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Speaker 1: Like the sources say that. For instance, when they were

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Speaker 1: going out to dinner, he gave, well, you're the star, Natalie,

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Speaker 1: you pick where we're going. You know what, I'd want

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Speaker 1: to slap my husband's sideways if he says something like that.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I'd be thrilled to get to pick where

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Speaker 1: we were going. But you know, you know it's my daughter.

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Speaker 1: She runs the house because she won't eat all right,

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Speaker 1: I have to make everything, Cheryl. You know this about Lucy.

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Speaker 1: I have to make when I cook, it's got to

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Speaker 1: be a veggie. I know she will eat blah blah.

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Speaker 1: So you know why we just cut the chase and

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Speaker 1: go straight to her. What do you want tonight? Okay,

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Speaker 1: that'll save me a lot of bubble. So I'd be

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Speaker 1: thrilled if I got to pick, but not like that,

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Speaker 1: like some side handed, backhanded insult. But so at the time,

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Speaker 1: that was a big, big differentiation. I guess it still is,

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Speaker 1: but whether you're a TV or a movie star. So

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Speaker 1: he was all like hung up with that, so that

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Speaker 1: I'm supposed to believe that that night they have a

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Speaker 1: fight over her co star Christopher Walkin, who I love

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Speaker 1: who happens to be with them? On the yacht and

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Speaker 1: they have a fight because Ragner is jealous that he

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Speaker 1: Mets admits that, he admits they have a knockdown drag out.

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Speaker 1: He admits he breaks a bottle of wine, some glasses

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Speaker 1: or something like that in his anger, and that She

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Speaker 1: decides that night Cheryl like, correct me if I'm wrong,

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Speaker 1: because you know the facts a lot better than me.

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Speaker 1: She decides she's gonna crawl off the yacht in the

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Speaker 1: in the dark, unread up a huge dinghy on the

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Speaker 1: side of the yacht and then crawled down in it

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Speaker 1: in the dark, out on the ocean, on the waves,

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Speaker 1: and row herself to shore or motor And and Nancy,

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Speaker 1: she decided to do this in a slannel nightgown in

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Speaker 1: woolfs hop and no underwear. And now I am not

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Speaker 1: saying you can't go to commando when you feel like,

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Speaker 1: you know fine. Every time I turn around, I find

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Speaker 1: out John David's running around without underwear, you know, I

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Speaker 1: just find out by accident. Okay, I'm like, what are

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Speaker 1: you doing running around without underwear? And he just starts

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Speaker 1: laughing and runs away. But she was you and I

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Speaker 1: Cheryl McCullum have poured through photos of Natalie Wood. Tell

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Speaker 1: me your observation. There's not one photograph where she's not flawless.

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Speaker 1: Her hair, her makeup, her outfit, her jewelry. She is

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Speaker 1: a movie star in every single photograph you can find,

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Speaker 1: picture perfect. So for me to believe that this woman

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Speaker 1: in a flannel nightgown with her makeup ball, with half

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Speaker 1: of her jewelry off, with a down jacket wolf socks

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Speaker 1: is spixing a goat to shore in the middle night

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Speaker 1: and night? How many times do I get irritated with

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Speaker 1: my husband, you know, after supper, and I mean it's

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Speaker 1: still cleaning out the kitchen, he's sitting there reading his iPad.

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Speaker 1: I just want to go snap his little nose off

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Speaker 1: his face. But and I think, you know what, I

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Speaker 1: just got stomp out. I like, and go where in

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Speaker 1: the middle right in my gym shorts and socks? Where

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Speaker 1: am I going? What to target? You know, I'm just

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Speaker 1: gonna just stay here. I might as well just stay

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Speaker 1: here and sock. I mean, And it was cold, and

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Speaker 1: it was dark. And again, not only did she have

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Speaker 1: a fear of water, dark water was debilitating. She would

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Speaker 1: not even go near her own swimming pool in Beverly Hills,

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Speaker 1: in the dark. She wouldn't do it. Did she know

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Speaker 1: how to swim in heaven? You're not getting me out

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Speaker 1: on a dinghy in the middle of a night and

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Speaker 1: I can swim and it with wool socks on. And

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Speaker 1: and that's another thing. Natalie would, as you said, was

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Speaker 1: always dressed to the not to the tea, her hair

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Speaker 1: was done. She would not even go to the grocery

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Speaker 1: store without being made up. Now you know me, I'll

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Speaker 1: just put on a hat and some sunglasses and and

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Speaker 1: and ride. Okay. But that was not That's not the

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Speaker 1: way she rolled. That did not happen with Natalie Wood. Absolutely.

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Speaker 1: I remember one time and I was called into a

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Speaker 1: crumb scene after leaving your show. Well, I had all

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Speaker 1: the studio makeup owe and my hair was perfect. And

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Speaker 1: when I got to the scene where the detective said,

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Speaker 1: are you in drags? Okay? I mean the favorite thing

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Speaker 1: of Lucy's is to peel off my false eyelashes. I

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Speaker 1: mean it's like, okay, so they don't they don't like

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Speaker 1: all that. But Natalie, it was a whole different That's

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Speaker 1: that's a whole different thing. She knew her public, or

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Speaker 1: she thought her public wanted to see her that way.

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Speaker 1: They did. They wanted, She believed they wanted the allure

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Speaker 1: of Natalie. Would you know in those doors Day movies,

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Speaker 1: how Doorsday always wears the cute little outfits to bed.

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Speaker 1: I'm sure Natalie would would not want the world to

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Speaker 1: know she slept in flannel socks up to her knees

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Speaker 1: and a flannel gown. Okay, that is not glamorous. Okay,

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Speaker 1: I'm just telling you. So see we're getting bogged down

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Speaker 1: in the d tell us. But you know what, what's funny, Cheryl?

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Speaker 1: Do you remember all the times, all the cases I prosecuted,

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Speaker 1: I would sit there and talk and talk and study

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Speaker 1: and study exactly this, all the little details. Oh yeah,

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Speaker 1: and you have often said the devil's in the details

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Speaker 1: this woman. And you know Natalie Wood was not going

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Speaker 1: anywhere without her underwear on. No no judging you, Cheryl

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Speaker 1: for going around without your underwear on. But what I'm

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Speaker 1: saying this woman would not do that. So okay, off

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Speaker 1: her flannel nightgown. What else do we know about that night, Cheryl?

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Speaker 1: We know that they had a fight, and we know

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Speaker 1: that Robert Wagner changed his story the broken wine bottle. Specifically,

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Speaker 1: he said, oh it must have been because the boat,

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Speaker 1: you know, was rocking time and it must have just

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Speaker 1: fallen over. Well, that yacht wasn't moving in that water.

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Speaker 1: And then he later changed the story and even wrote

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Speaker 1: in a book, but he smashed it over jealousy of

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Speaker 1: Christopher Walking. So again, in my world, want you change

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Speaker 1: your story. I'm focused on you completely, you know, That's

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Speaker 1: what I always say, Cheryl. Embellish your story, add to

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Speaker 1: your story as much as you want to. But when

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Speaker 1: you change your story, you've got a problem. Because I

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Speaker 1: always learned working with witnesses that when I would sit

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Speaker 1: down with them, which of course I would do before

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Speaker 1: I put them on the stand. Um, if you sit

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Speaker 1: down and take time to talk to them and ask

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Speaker 1: them question after question after question, he learned so much

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Speaker 1: more than it's in a police report. And they will

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Speaker 1: embellish a lot of facts and details and descriptions as

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Speaker 1: best they can. But when they start changing the story,

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Speaker 1: then there's a problem. Now let's talk about how if

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Speaker 1: he did, did Robert Wagner change his story about that night?

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Speaker 1: What is his story about the secreence of events? His

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Speaker 1: story was that she went off to bed, he went

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Speaker 1: down later, she wasn't there, he looked for her. He

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Speaker 1: went to the ship's captain um, they looked through the

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Speaker 1: whole yacht. They could not find her, and then they

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Speaker 1: became panicked. But he still waits and waits and waits

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Speaker 1: before he calls for help. He waits and waits and

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Speaker 1: waits before he calls for other people to come help

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Speaker 1: and search and find her. He never turns the lights on.

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Speaker 1: He never goes to Christopher Walking's room. So again, if

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Speaker 1: I'm quote looking everywhere for her, the person that I

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Speaker 1: was jealous of, the person that I thought she was

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Speaker 1: learning with, I would have at least gone to his stateroom.

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Speaker 1: And that never happened. Right. The big blow up that

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Speaker 1: night was he Wagner was jealous that Natalie was paying

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Speaker 1: at tension to Christopher Walking and they were having fun

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Speaker 1: and talking. They've been working on a movie, as I recall,

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Speaker 1: it was some kind of thriller, Brainstorm, that was the

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Speaker 1: name of it. Her co star was Christopher Walking, So

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Speaker 1: Walking comes along. Bad weather was predicted that night in November.

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Speaker 1: There was a cold rain over Isthmus Bay. It was

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Speaker 1: pummeling the faces of anybody going ashore for dinner. The

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Speaker 1: sea wasn't that rough. However, although it was a horrible night.

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Speaker 1: Um let me understand. So they are all three on

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Speaker 1: that's called the Splendor was Natalie's yacht. They're celebrating it's Thanksgiving,

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Speaker 1: and then the fight breaks out. You know, once you

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Speaker 1: add alcohol into a scenario like this, it's just like

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Speaker 1: putting gas on a fire. So r J. Robert Wagner

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Speaker 1: gets mad and starts a fight and actually says, what

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Speaker 1: do you want to f my wife? He says that

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Speaker 1: to Walk and I guess that ended the party. Okay,

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Speaker 1: Walking stops off to bed and slams the door, and

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Speaker 1: then the two of them continue to fight, also on

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Speaker 1: board the ship's captain. Then what happens. The ship's captain

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Speaker 1: is panicked, and he said, we've got to call for help.

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Speaker 1: We've got to turn the lights on, and he said, no,

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Speaker 1: leave her there. He said leave her there, So that

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Speaker 1: would make me think he knew where she was. So Ben, finally,

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Speaker 1: after four hours, do you know she's said he Robert

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Speaker 1: Wagner said leave her there. That's what the ship's captain said.

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Speaker 1: That he told him and I met with him personally.

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Speaker 1: So then they decided to call for help. So Robert

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Speaker 1: Wagner calls for help and he tells over the radio,

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Speaker 1: we have someone overboard in a Rubberdeen. We so he

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Speaker 1: includes other people in this and then says someone. He

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Speaker 1: doesn't say my wife, he doesn't say Natalie, he doesn't

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Speaker 1: identify her at all. So back to me is very

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Speaker 1: important if you remember, like with John Bade Ramsey, when

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Speaker 1: Patsy referred to that child, trying to distant yourself at

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Speaker 1: all is a clue to me. You know it wasn't someone.

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Speaker 1: I know, it sounds like a small clue, Cheryl, but

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Speaker 1: it is a clue and that has been repeated over

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Speaker 1: and over in criminal cases when you refer to the

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Speaker 1: victim or someone else not by their name, but as

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Speaker 1: for instance, that child or someone. Now, remember it was

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Speaker 1: about seven pm that evening that they had all been

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Speaker 1: seated for dinner, and they ordered more and more champagne.

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Speaker 1: And this was on I believe, on shore, and the

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Speaker 1: manager of the restaurant was so worried he was afraid

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Speaker 1: they were also intoxicated. They couldn't get back to the yacht,

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Speaker 1: but they did and they drinking continued. The fight breaks out,

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Speaker 1: Walking storms away, slams his door. The fight continues and

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Speaker 1: then suddenly, how is everybody alerted that Natalie is missing?

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Speaker 1: And Robert Wagner went and told then they supposedly searched,

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Speaker 1: and then that's when they called for help. And what

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Speaker 1: help arrived? Um, they had helicopters and everything. Um. The

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Speaker 1: dinghy was actually found a mile away from the yacht,

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Speaker 1: and Natalie was found in the other direction, almost a

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Speaker 1: mile away. Almost. Now, was there a witness on a

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Speaker 1: nearby craft that believed there was an ear witness? Yea,

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Speaker 1: she heard a lady screaming help me. Wow. Okay, what

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Speaker 1: else do we know? We know that she had the

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Speaker 1: wool fox own when they recovered her, and that's key

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Speaker 1: because if she would have been flailing around trying to

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Speaker 1: save herself from drowning, those thoughts very likely would have

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Speaker 1: come off. We know that she had three d of

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Speaker 1: during in her ladder, which again makes you think she

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Speaker 1: may not have been conscious when she went into the water,

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Speaker 1: because normally, if someone is grounding, they void, and that's

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Speaker 1: very typical. In fact, it would be abnormal for her

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Speaker 1: not to urinate if you drowned exactly exactly. I mean,

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Speaker 1: that's one of the things that leaked off the page

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Speaker 1: to me. When I read the autoxics, which means you

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Speaker 1: the alternative to that is that she was knocked out

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Speaker 1: before she was thrown in and therefore she didn't void

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Speaker 1: in the water. Correct. Now, that does not jive with

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Speaker 1: a fellow craft hearing her yelling help correct, which is

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Speaker 1: one of the things law enforcements should have keyed in

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Speaker 1: on at the time. So again, the stocks, the urine,

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Speaker 1: those things do not appear that she was actively drowning,

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Speaker 1: but could have gone into water unconscious and drowned, so

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Speaker 1: that would equate for the urine and the water in

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Speaker 1: her loans. Repeat, she had water in her loan, so

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Speaker 1: she did take in water, but with the urine. That

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Speaker 1: would explain she went into the water, possibly unconscious but

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Speaker 1: still drowned, but was not playing a round. The night

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Speaker 1: manager of the restaurant where they had eaten that evening

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Speaker 1: was that reading a book in the cavern of the

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Speaker 1: boat where he lived year round. He heard the radio,

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Speaker 1: the CB radio, crackling, and he heard the conversation in

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Speaker 1: between Wagner and Miller. He radio to a friend, then

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Speaker 1: a night manager, Don Whiting, on the Isthmus to go

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Speaker 1: to the Wagner yacht Pronto and report back in thirty

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Speaker 1: minutes after that. Finally, thirty minutes after he did that,

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Speaker 1: light beams from the harbor patrol boats, private boats from Baywatch,

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Speaker 1: Coastguard helicopters began to criss cross the ocean. They shine

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Speaker 1: down on the waves, swept over yachts, ships. Nothing was

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Speaker 1: found in the sea. It was seven thirty the following morning.

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Speaker 1: A sheriff's helicopter headed towards Catalina. Suddenly a crew member

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Speaker 1: just saw a spot of red in the ocean waves

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Speaker 1: and they go down and it is faced down in

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Speaker 1: a red jacket. Natalie Wood, her hair splaying out around her,

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Speaker 1: face down in the water. The dinghy was discovered on

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Speaker 1: shore even further south, the key still in the ignition,

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Speaker 1: turned in the off position, the gear neutral, the oars

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Speaker 1: still tied down. What does that mean? Sure's what it

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Speaker 1: means to me. The down jacket is what allowed them

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Speaker 1: to find her so again down float. So when they

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Speaker 1: talk in the autopic report that, oh, the jacket would

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Speaker 1: have weighed forty pounds, it would have just you know,

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Speaker 1: drawn her all the way down into the ocean. That

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Speaker 1: jacket didn't weigh forty pounds in the water. The jacket

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Speaker 1: is the reason. Again they found her because down float,

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Speaker 1: So that jacket did not kill her. That makes the shot, yes,

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Speaker 1: because the boat obviously had not been used at all.

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Speaker 1: But here's another key thing. They said she fell getting

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Speaker 1: into the boat. They just accepted that she fell getting in.

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Speaker 1: Nobody untied the dingy and then gets in it. That

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Speaker 1: dingy being rubber on that water with that wind. As

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Speaker 1: soon as you untie it, it's going to start moving

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Speaker 1: like a balloon in the wind. It's moving. So if

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Speaker 1: she untied it first, there ain't no getting in it.

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Speaker 1: That boat's gone. She wouldn't have done that, we already know.

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Speaker 1: Here's here's the contrast. It was clear she was not

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Speaker 1: dressed to go on a boat ride, but police believe

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Speaker 1: she had to untie the dinghy. Why is she untie

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Speaker 1: it if she didn't intend to go out in the boat.

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Speaker 1: And again, you get in the boat, you get it already,

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Speaker 1: you get the oars, you turn it on, then you

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Speaker 1: untie it. Correct, that's how that works. And she knew

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Speaker 1: that much. And Nancy, look at it pre and post behavior.

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Speaker 1: Look at post behavior. Even when this horrible thing happens,

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Speaker 1: Robert Wagner doesn't even go and identify her body. Once again,

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Speaker 1: he goes to the ship captain and makes him do it.

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Speaker 1: Dennis the Verne identified Natalie Wood at the moors. You

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Speaker 1: know another thing is who told their children? Correct? Nascarsha

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Speaker 1: learned about it on the radio with a friend's house.

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Speaker 1: What Nascarsha learned about her mother's death breaking news over

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Speaker 1: the radio while she was at a friend's house. He

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Speaker 1: didn't call her, he didn't go over there, he didn't

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Speaker 1: go pick her up. Now, you and I both have

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Speaker 1: recently lost loved ones. My immediate concern became my children,

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Speaker 1: how to explain it to them, how to help them

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Speaker 1: through it. I wanted to get to them as fast

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Speaker 1: as I could not. Robert Wagner, did we learn anything

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Speaker 1: from the search of the boat of the yacht? Yes,

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Speaker 1: their state room was in disarray, the wine bottle, and

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Speaker 1: again the fact that he did not completely search it,

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Speaker 1: the fact that he did not turn on searchlights, the

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Speaker 1: fact that he did not offer help immediately but allowed

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Speaker 1: great time to pass, the fact that there was some

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Speaker 1: jewelry in the room. Part of her jewelry was off,

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Speaker 1: so it looked like something disrupted her nightly routine. So

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Speaker 1: her sister will explain to you. She took her jewelry off,

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Speaker 1: she took her makeup off, she put her night down,

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Speaker 1: and then she went to bed. So that's how she

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Speaker 1: did it. So at some point she decides she's going

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Speaker 1: to put a jacket on because they're going outside. So

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Speaker 1: they're either going outside to finish arguing, which the captain

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Speaker 1: can hear um, or he makes her put the jacket

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Speaker 1: on and says, come with me. We don't you know,

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Speaker 1: We don't know for sure. Obviously we weren't there. But

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Speaker 1: at some point she stops her nightly routine and puts

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Speaker 1: on a jacket and goes outside with Robert Wagner. So

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Speaker 1: Robert Wagner is the last person to see her. He

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Speaker 1: was arguing with her at the time. The ship's captain

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Speaker 1: that you know, Dennis to Burn, will tell you he

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Speaker 1: saw her like shove her away, shove her away or

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Speaker 1: shove her towards the water. We also know that, according

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Speaker 1: to the autopsy, a widespread bruise diffuse. It was about

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Speaker 1: four inches by one inch spread over her right arm

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Speaker 1: above the wrist. On the left wrist was a superficial

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Speaker 1: fresh bruise about a half inch in diameter. There were

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Speaker 1: small superficial skin bruises scattered over her right and left

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Speaker 1: lower legs, fresh the area on the left recent bruising,

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Speaker 1: the right ankle recent bruise, and superficial bruises on the posterior,

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Speaker 1: the back of both lower legs covered covering her legs

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Speaker 1: were covered in bruises. A vertical upwards brush type abrasion

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Speaker 1: was on her cheek, her left cheek, as I recall,

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Speaker 1: that was her only head wound. What are you correct?

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Speaker 1: What do you think? I think that's a hell of

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Speaker 1: a fall. If you can manage to hit the front

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Speaker 1: of your legs and the back of your legs and

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Speaker 1: both the wrists and your face the front and that's

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Speaker 1: not that's not a fall. You don't fall, that's not

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Speaker 1: get bruised front and back, not at all. It reminds

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Speaker 1: me of the Kathleen Savio in the dry bathtub, and

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Speaker 1: she had bruising everywhere. It looks to me like she

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Speaker 1: might have had some type of physical fight and then

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Speaker 1: hit maybe the swim step going in, or maybe the

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Speaker 1: swim step and part of the deemi like she fell

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Speaker 1: in between. But again, that doesn't appear completely accidental. Some

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Speaker 1: of those bruises were fresh, so possibly before she hit

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Speaker 1: the water. What's happening right now in the investigation? What

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Speaker 1: why have there are there never been an arrest, well

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Speaker 1: right now to take because they're actively work in the case.

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Speaker 1: They have reinterviewed Christopher Walking, they have reinterviewed Um, some

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Speaker 1: other principal people, and the death certificate have been changed

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Speaker 1: from accidental drowning to undetermined. So that's very significant to

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Speaker 1: me that they would make that move. The case goes

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Speaker 1: on with me, the director of the Cold Case Institute,

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Speaker 1: Cheryl McCullum, I'm Nancy Grace, Crime Stories signing off goodbye friend.

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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace presents another episode in our

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Speaker 1: continuing focus on the Natalie Wood death mystery tomorrow