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Speaker 1: Welcome to stuff Mom Never told You From how Supports

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Speaker 1: dot com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Kristen

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Speaker 1: and I'm Caroline, and today we are so excited to

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Speaker 1: be talking to host of w n y c s

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Speaker 1: The Longest Shortest Time and also this American life producer,

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Speaker 1: Hillary Frank. That's right, Christen's conversation with Hillary is kicking

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Speaker 1: off podcast summer camp. So basically, this summer we are

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Speaker 1: talking to a bunch of fellow lady podcasters about what

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Speaker 1: they do, why they do it, where their interests lie,

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Speaker 1: and how they got to where they are. Basically, I

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Speaker 1: think we kind of selfishly wanted to hear that from

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Speaker 1: other podcasters. And when it comes to podcasts that I

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Speaker 1: personally love, Caroline The Longest Shortest Time is definitely at

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Speaker 1: the top of the list because it feels a lot

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Speaker 1: like the kinds of in depth, candid listener stories that

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Speaker 1: we get so often, and The Longest Shortest Time is

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Speaker 1: also focused around parenthood and also just familihood more generally,

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Speaker 1: so it really feels like a kindred podcast to me. Well, Kristen,

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Speaker 1: how did you get interested in it? If it is

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Speaker 1: a podcast about parenting? Neither one of us is a parent. Well,

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Speaker 1: it was actually a parent friend who first mentioned it

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Speaker 1: to me and said, you have to talk about this.

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Speaker 1: They talked about all sorts of things that you cover on,

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Speaker 1: stuff I've never told you, and so I did, and

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Speaker 1: I was hooked because it very much does have and

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Speaker 1: almost this American life feel to it, because Hillary has

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Speaker 1: such an incredible way of engaging her guests to really

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Speaker 1: mind the depths of what it means to be a parent,

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Speaker 1: beyond what we normally read on parenting blogs or in

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Speaker 1: all the different parenting books you might see. It really

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Speaker 1: gets to the nitty gritty of what it's like and

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Speaker 1: how unglamorous and difficult it often is, and also too

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Speaker 1: incredibly rewarding of course. Well, so what was your favorite

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Speaker 1: part of speaking with Hillary? Well, selfishly, because like you mentioned,

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Speaker 1: I am not a parent at this point, but you

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Speaker 1: and I are at an age when friends of ours

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Speaker 1: are becoming parents. And one thing that I was so

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Speaker 1: glad to get her insight on was bridging the parent

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Speaker 1: nonparent divide, because I think a lot of times, especially

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Speaker 1: in pop culture, we see this division between oh here

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Speaker 1: the non parents who are still cool and we can

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Speaker 1: hang out as late as we want to, and then

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Speaker 1: there the loom parents, and all you want to do

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Speaker 1: is talk about their babies and play dates and things

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Speaker 1: like that, and you can't possibly get along. How could

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Speaker 1: friendships survived that? Um? But Hillary talks a lot about

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Speaker 1: how it is absolutely possible to survive the survive kids

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Speaker 1: getting in the way of of your lady friendships or

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Speaker 1: just general couple of friendships, or I'm just saying friendship,

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Speaker 1: different types of friendships, the various classifications of friendships. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's good to know. I'm actually getting dinner with one

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Speaker 1: of my best lady friends in second grade here pretty soon,

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Speaker 1: and she is about to have her third So that's

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Speaker 1: good to know that there's hope first remain friends and

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Speaker 1: other I was gonna say twenty something years, but now

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Speaker 1: it's been more than twenty something years. Friendship is more

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Speaker 1: powerful than baby scare one. Yeah, babies are very powerful.

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Speaker 1: They're very very weak. They don't can't even stand I

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Speaker 1: don't have much next strength. They can't even feed themselves. Well.

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Speaker 1: To kick things off, Hillary is going to introduce herself

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Speaker 1: and how she got started in radio, which then lad

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Speaker 1: to podcasting and the longest shortest time, So, dear listeners,

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Speaker 1: please enjoy my chat with Hillary Frank. My name's Hillary Frank,

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Speaker 1: and I have been a radio producer for sixteen years. UM.

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Speaker 1: I started out UM doing some work for This American

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Speaker 1: Life as a freelancer, and then moved on to freelancing

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Speaker 1: for a lot of different radio shows. UM. And I've

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Speaker 1: also written three young adult novels UM that that I

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Speaker 1: illustrated my degrees actually in UM drawing in drawing naked

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Speaker 1: people like yeah yeah. I studied UM like anatomical drawing

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Speaker 1: UM at the New York Academy of Art, and while

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Speaker 1: I was there, got my first story on This American

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Speaker 1: Life and wound up going into radio. Well, I have

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Speaker 1: to ask, then, what was your first story on this

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Speaker 1: American Life? My first story was something I put together

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Speaker 1: using a boom box and answering machine micro cassette answering machine. UM.

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Speaker 1: Those were the tools of the day, I guess, or

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Speaker 1: what was accessible to me as someone who didn't know

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Speaker 1: how to make professional radio. And I did a story

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Speaker 1: about my two friends in college who pretended to be

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Speaker 1: a giant. One got on the other's shoulders and they

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Speaker 1: would wrap a blanket around themselves and wear like a

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Speaker 1: long UM kind of kiss style wig um, and they

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Speaker 1: called themselves Giant Man and um. They would like show

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Speaker 1: up on the Quad at night and they would post

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Speaker 1: these like posters flyers all over campus saying like, uh,

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Speaker 1: Giant Man will be appearing on the Quad, and he

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Speaker 1: would he would show up and just be like I

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Speaker 1: am giant, I am huge, and I'm a benevolent giant Man,

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Speaker 1: and I have come to shower you with butter Scotch candy.

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Speaker 1: And he would like throw butter scotch candy at the crowd.

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Speaker 1: But the thing was that everyone who didn't actually see

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Speaker 1: Giant Man believed that he was real and um and

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Speaker 1: there and it was in. People believed it so much

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Speaker 1: that like there were professors discussing in philosophy classes whether

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Speaker 1: or not um, we were exploiting a freak of nature. Wow. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: So I interviewed my friend who was the top half

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Speaker 1: of Giant Man. Oh man, that sounds fantastic. Um. Well,

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Speaker 1: for listeners who might not be familiar with the Longest

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Speaker 1: Shortest Time, can you tell us a little bit about

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Speaker 1: it and where the idea came from? Yeah? So, um,

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Speaker 1: The Longest Shortest Time is a podcast I started when

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Speaker 1: my daughter was about ten months old. UM, I had

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Speaker 1: a really rough delivery and recovery UM from childbirth. I

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Speaker 1: had an episiotomy, which is you know when they cut

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Speaker 1: you to help get the baby out, and then my

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Speaker 1: stitches busted um a week later and I needed to

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Speaker 1: get recut and stitched um and that was like actually

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Speaker 1: more traumatic than anything that had calmed down in the

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Speaker 1: in the actual birth. And I wasn't able to walk

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Speaker 1: UM for the first two months of my daughter's life.

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Speaker 1: And I couldn't like I couldn't do the kinds of

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Speaker 1: things that you want to be able to do when

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Speaker 1: you're a new mom, Like UM, I couldn't bounce her.

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Speaker 1: I couldn't um get into the right position to breastfeed her.

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Speaker 1: I couldn't change her diaper. I couldn't give her a bath,

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Speaker 1: and like those are things that not everyone relish is doing,

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Speaker 1: but like you want to be able to take care

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Speaker 1: of your kid when when you first have one. And UM,

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Speaker 1: I also couldn't go upstairs. We lived in an apartment

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Speaker 1: UM where our bedroom was on I was upstairs, in

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Speaker 1: the bathroom was downstairs, so I I slept in our

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Speaker 1: very dark, tiny living room on a air mattress for

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Speaker 1: the first eight weeks of her life. UM. So it

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Speaker 1: was like a really dark time. And we moved four

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Speaker 1: months after she was born to a town where I

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Speaker 1: didn't know any body, and it looked to me like

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Speaker 1: everyone was having an easier time than I was. UM

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Speaker 1: And you know, I would I wanted to make friends,

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Speaker 1: and so it would like, let's say I would be

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Speaker 1: at a coffee shop and I would see somebody UM

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Speaker 1: holding a very tiny baby, and I'd be like, wow,

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Speaker 1: look at you. You're you're doing it. That's great. And

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Speaker 1: they would be like, well, it's been two weeks, and

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Speaker 1: and for me, it was just such a like uh,

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Speaker 1: like a punch in the gut, and I felt like,

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Speaker 1: how was I going to continue to have a conversation

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Speaker 1: with anyone like that? UM And So I felt an

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Speaker 1: urgent need to know that other people were struggling, even

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Speaker 1: if it wasn't the same exact struggle that I had.

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Speaker 1: I needed to know that it wasn't super easy for

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Speaker 1: everybody else. UM. And I also knew that UM as

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Speaker 1: as an experienced radio producer, I knew that having a

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Speaker 1: microphone kind of gives you license to ask somebody anything.

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Speaker 1: So that's what I did. I started um, interviewing people

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Speaker 1: about their struggles and and and in the beginning, it

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Speaker 1: started out as this very kind of selfish thing that

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Speaker 1: was very cathartic for me and then and and podcasting

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Speaker 1: wasn't so big back then, and so um it felt

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Speaker 1: almost like this private thing, even though I was putting

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Speaker 1: it out there. And I said at the end of

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Speaker 1: the show, Um, if you want to tell your story

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Speaker 1: of a surprising struggle in parenthood, email me. And I

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Speaker 1: started getting emails right away from strangers who wanted to

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Speaker 1: talk to me. And it started out with us like

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Speaker 1: coordinating during our kids nap times, really like getting twenty

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Speaker 1: minutes in here and there to talk to people. And

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Speaker 1: these like mostly strangers to me, would wind up crying.

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Speaker 1: Almost everyone cried in that first year. And Um, and

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Speaker 1: what I learned was that it was becoming cathartic to

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Speaker 1: other people as well. What do you think, then, is

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Speaker 1: the root of that catharsis? Why why is talking about

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Speaker 1: the experiences so particularly cathartical, especially during that period of

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Speaker 1: time as being new parents? Yeah? So, UM, I think

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Speaker 1: that the first thing you want to hear when you're

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Speaker 1: going through something difficult, no matter what it is, is

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Speaker 1: that you want to you want to hear someone telling you, um,

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Speaker 1: that you're not alone. And that's what UM I think

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Speaker 1: the podcast had the power to do on a very

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Speaker 1: basic level, was just someone in your ear being like,

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Speaker 1: you can calm down, take a deep breath, You're not

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Speaker 1: the only one. UM. And then and then the other

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Speaker 1: thing that it does is that, UM, when you hear

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Speaker 1: that someone had a struggle that um is different from yours,

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Speaker 1: maybe just as intense, but different, it reminds you that, um,

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Speaker 1: you had an easier time with something else, something that

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Speaker 1: they didn't have an easy time with. And UM, I

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Speaker 1: think it can be really nice to remember that too. UM.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, I think I think it kind of does

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Speaker 1: these two things. And I don't think it's necessarily particular

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Speaker 1: to new parenthood. I think anyone who's going through a

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Speaker 1: time of crisis, well it seems like you know, the

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Speaker 1: longest shortest time really focuses in on that need for

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Speaker 1: that kind of that kind of real talk of understanding

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Speaker 1: each other's struggles and the strengths that you might have

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Speaker 1: that you didn't realize that you had. And when it

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Speaker 1: comes to childbirth and parenting, at least from I have

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Speaker 1: more of an outside perspective. I'm not a parent, but

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Speaker 1: it seems like there's so much information these days of

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Speaker 1: what to expect when you're expecting, and you know, all

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Speaker 1: of all of the things that you can read about

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Speaker 1: how things will go, and yet it still seems like

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Speaker 1: there's this vacuum, this communication vacuum of what it's actually like.

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Speaker 1: And I was wondering why you think that might be.

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Speaker 1: For all the information we have, why is it perhaps

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Speaker 1: still I don't know, hard to talk about or UM. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: well it's really scary to like talk about vaginal injuries,

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Speaker 1: I mean, UM, and and that's and and there's a

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Speaker 1: good reason for that. I mean, I think that women

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Speaker 1: who talk about it really run the risk of being

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Speaker 1: called hysterical and in uh ingrateful for UM, especially like

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Speaker 1: if you have a healthy child, there's a lot of

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Speaker 1: people who will tell you you should just be happy

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Speaker 1: that you had a healthy child. And I'm of course

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Speaker 1: incredibly grateful that, like endlessly grateful that I have a

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Speaker 1: healthy child. But I don't think that should negate the

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Speaker 1: fact that, UM, there can be some real physical and

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Speaker 1: psychological damage done UM two people in childbirth, and UM

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Speaker 1: that that needs to be dealt with um. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I think if you out yourself as someone who is

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Speaker 1: dealing with postpartum depression or anxiety or um a vaginal injury, um,

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Speaker 1: you are putting yourself in a position of seeming hysterical

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Speaker 1: and and and and like like you don't know what

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Speaker 1: really matters, and like I it took me three years

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Speaker 1: to find help for my injury. Um I was. I

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Speaker 1: was in pain for that long and it wasn't really

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Speaker 1: something I felt like I could talk about fully until

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Speaker 1: I had gotten healed and I was on the other

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Speaker 1: side of it. But um, yeah, it's just there's a

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Speaker 1: real stigma to talking about it. Do you think it's

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Speaker 1: maybe part of a broader cultural problem we have with

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Speaker 1: not taking women's health concerns, whether they're physical or mental seriously. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I do. It's it's a hard thing to understand if

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Speaker 1: you haven't been through it, and there's not enough people

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Speaker 1: advocating for the fact that this stuff is real and

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Speaker 1: it does real damage to people, and it's sort of

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Speaker 1: easy to walk around to protect and like stuff isn't

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Speaker 1: happening inside your head um or inside a part of

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Speaker 1: your body that nobody can see. Um, And so without

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Speaker 1: those kind of strong voices out there being advocates for

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Speaker 1: this kind of stuff. It's hard, I think for other

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Speaker 1: people to imagine that it's real. Well, and do you

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Speaker 1: think there's also an external pressure put on new moms

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Speaker 1: in particular to be extremely happy and like you said,

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Speaker 1: very grateful and everything's fine and and what a joyous time. Definitely.

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Speaker 1: I mean it's interesting. I feel like parenting media most

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Speaker 1: often is either you know, that kind of thing like,

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Speaker 1: yeah you have you have to be happy about everything, um,

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Speaker 1: or kind of braggy about what a bad mom you are.

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Speaker 1: And they both kind of rubbed me the wrong way, um,

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Speaker 1: Because I just think being a parent is a complex

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Speaker 1: part of life, just like anything, and so why can't

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Speaker 1: we talk about it in a complicated way. Well, it's

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Speaker 1: also been interesting to see, um, in celebrity culture, how

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Speaker 1: there's been this recent obsession with these new celebrity moms

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Speaker 1: who don't look like they ever were pregnant at any

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Speaker 1: point at all. And it's it's so it's not only

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Speaker 1: this cultural pressure to be super happy but also look fantastic,

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Speaker 1: super thin exactly. And then and the thing that people

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Speaker 1: need to remember is that number one that's there, like

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Speaker 1: full time job, is to look awesome, and they have

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Speaker 1: people watching their babies while they do that. Um. And

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Speaker 1: the other thing is I think that that's really dangerous

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Speaker 1: for the media to be congratulating celebrity moms for looking

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Speaker 1: amazing after having a baby, because it makes everyone else

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Speaker 1: feel like they need to pressure themselves into doing that too. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Definitely seems like the phrase pre baby body is a

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Speaker 1: bit misleading for for women. Um, well I just did.

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Speaker 1: I just did an episode with Jean Marie who um

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Speaker 1: the style and beauty blogger for Jezebel, and Um, she

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Speaker 1: kind of shamed me into talking about my pre baby body,

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Speaker 1: like I'm five years in now, and I was talking

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Speaker 1: about how I was like holding onto clothes that I

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Speaker 1: was hoping I would fit into, and she was like,

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Speaker 1: five years later, forget it, get rid of those clothes.

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Speaker 1: They're not even in style anymore anyway. And it was

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Speaker 1: really helpful to hear someone say that if they sort

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Speaker 1: of allow you, you know, give you permission to let go. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: to just be like, this is what you look like now,

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Speaker 1: and it's fine, just get over it. Well, have you

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Speaker 1: gotten rid of any of the clothes? I did? I

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Speaker 1: packed like after that literally that weekend, I packed the

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Speaker 1: clothes up and I donated them. Wow. Yeah, that's awesome, congratulations,

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Speaker 1: thank you. It felt really liberating. I bet um, Well,

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Speaker 1: you mentioned parenting media and sort of that that emphasis

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Speaker 1: on happy, perfect mom versus bad mom, and there are

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Speaker 1: just all sorts of just general commandments that seems like

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Speaker 1: in parenting media of how you should raise your child.

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Speaker 1: And it seems like the longest Shortest time really makes

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Speaker 1: a concerted effort to emphasize more community versus commandment. And

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Speaker 1: I was wondering if it's ever tricky to maintain that

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Speaker 1: judgment free, accepting tone and atmosphere both in your own

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Speaker 1: podcast conversations but also too in the longest shortest time

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Speaker 1: listener community interactions. Yeah. So, UM, I think it's just

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Speaker 1: human nature to judge and to look at someone and

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Speaker 1: be like, I wouldn't do it that way. But I

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Speaker 1: also think it's important to remember that, Um, maybe if

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Speaker 1: you were that exact person, with their exact experiences and

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Speaker 1: their exact children, you might do it their way. So

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Speaker 1: so that I tried to remind myself that when I

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Speaker 1: started when those thoughts creep up on me. But in

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Speaker 1: the podcast, um, there was one of my first guests

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Speaker 1: was this woman Kate, who UM she was very adamantly

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Speaker 1: no cry with with putting her kid to bed, and

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Speaker 1: I had done cry it out and had worked really

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Speaker 1: well for me, and UM. I did this interview with

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Speaker 1: her where we talked about those two different things, and

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Speaker 1: when I listened back to it a couple of years

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Speaker 1: after the fact, I was so, I felt so cringe

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Speaker 1: e because I felt like I sounded so smug and

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Speaker 1: like I was judging her. And I remembered not feeling

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Speaker 1: that way at the time, but I feel like I

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Speaker 1: sounded that way, and I thought, oh, she must have

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Speaker 1: felt so terrible. UM. And so I called her back

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Speaker 1: up and brought her back on the podcast and we

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Speaker 1: talked about it, UM, and she said she hadn't perceived

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Speaker 1: it that way, but I know that other that listeners

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Speaker 1: had and UM. So the conversation we wound up having

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Speaker 1: was um that she had felt like she because we

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Speaker 1: kind of became friends after that first interview, and she

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Speaker 1: felt like she could never tell me her birth story

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Speaker 1: because hers kind of went well and she felt bad

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Speaker 1: sharing it with me. And I was like, no, you know,

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Speaker 1: now that you've told me that, now I feel better

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Speaker 1: about sharing my triumphs with you, like we each had

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Speaker 1: a triumph and it was different, UM, just like we

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Speaker 1: each had different struggles and it was like a nice,

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Speaker 1: really nice bonding moment UM. So it was sort of

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Speaker 1: a way of using that judge stuff uh as as

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Speaker 1: to our advantage. UM. And then you know, we have

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Speaker 1: two official Facebook groups UM. The Mama's Group is a

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Speaker 1: twelve thousand strong now and the Papa's Group, I think

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Speaker 1: is about a thousand, and then listeners have generated over

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Speaker 1: eighty subgroups because they like the non judge tone of

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Speaker 1: the show and they want to use it to talk

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Speaker 1: about specific topics UM. And for a really long time

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Speaker 1: we are rules in the group are uh no soliciting

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Speaker 1: and no UM personal attacks, and we have no tolerance

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Speaker 1: for either one. And for a while we just didn't

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Speaker 1: even have to address any of it. And then maybe

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Speaker 1: like six months into having the group, UM, it started

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Speaker 1: growing really quickly because the podcast started getting more popular,

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Speaker 1: and every time the show gets featured somewhere else, it's

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Speaker 1: great for the show, it's great for for the longevity

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Speaker 1: of the show UM, and new people come in who

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Speaker 1: are not at all used to this non judgy tone

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Speaker 1: that we have and they're used to their other Facebook

338
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Speaker 1: groups where they do attack each other, and so they

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Speaker 1: come in and they started they start start up with

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Speaker 1: people and um. The thing that I've found is that

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Speaker 1: the group members are so protective of this tone that, um,

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Speaker 1: it's pretty self regulating. They say, you know, this isn't allowed,

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Speaker 1: and generally, um, the person, the offending person will remove

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Speaker 1: themselves because then they start feeling attacked. Um Or if

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Speaker 1: it doesn't resolve that way, then you know, we remove them.

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Speaker 1: But it doesn't happen too much. Yeah, I mean, it's

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Speaker 1: and it's great to hear when audiences sort of do

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Speaker 1: do your work for you in the sense of protecting

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Speaker 1: the sacred space that that you've created. Um. So, some

350
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Speaker 1: of my friends honestly think it's a little odd that

351
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Speaker 1: I listened to the longest shortest time because they asked

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Speaker 1: me what it's about, and I'm like, well, it's about parenting,

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Speaker 1: and they're like, well, that's weird. You don't have kids.

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Speaker 1: It's like, well, it's parenting, but it's about it's really

355
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Speaker 1: just about people and growing up. And that got me

356
00:22:01,000 --> 00:22:06,159
Speaker 1: thinking about this tendency, especially the older I get to

357
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Speaker 1: divide the adult world and especially women into parents, non parents,

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Speaker 1: mothers versus non mothers. And I was just wondering, kind

359
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Speaker 1: of what you think about that, of whether I don't know,

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Speaker 1: whether we sometimes or maybe cloistering ourselves too much based

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Speaker 1: on our child free by choice or proud mom kind

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Speaker 1: of identities. Yeah, I mean, I think, first of all,

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Speaker 1: I want to say that, Um, I think of the

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Speaker 1: show as like, the parenting stuff is just a launching

365
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Speaker 1: point to talk about a whole bunch of other things,

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Speaker 1: you know, to talk about the big human stuff, the relationships,

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Speaker 1: the sex, the work, the death. We cover all of

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Speaker 1: that stuff and the only requirement is that there has

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Speaker 1: to be a family relationship in there. And I don't

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Speaker 1: know why we get this a lot Like my my

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Speaker 1: producer is not a mother, um, and she's in her

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Speaker 1: early thirties, and she says that she goes to parties

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Speaker 1: and people will come up and like whisper to her

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Speaker 1: like I actually like the podcast you work on, And

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Speaker 1: she's like, why is that a secret? You know? Like, um,

376
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Speaker 1: why is it weird that you would like to listen

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Speaker 1: to stuff about family relationships? We all have families in

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Speaker 1: one way or another. Anyway that said, I think it's

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Speaker 1: really it's it's interesting like that we get divided in

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Speaker 1: this way. And I think, um, you know, female bonds

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Speaker 1: tend to be really really strong, um between friends, and

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Speaker 1: when one person has a baby and the other one doesn't,

383
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Speaker 1: or their timing is different, um, it can really throw

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Speaker 1: a wrench in the relationship because people feel like they

385
00:23:48,880 --> 00:23:52,480
Speaker 1: don't get each other that well. UM. And I think

386
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Speaker 1: like it does put your life in a in a

387
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Speaker 1: different place, um, especially in the very beginning when you

388
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Speaker 1: know you're not sleeping at all. But I've also I

389
00:24:02,680 --> 00:24:05,600
Speaker 1: think it doesn't have to be a complete end to

390
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Speaker 1: the relationship. I don't think you have to be divided

391
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Speaker 1: by I'm only friends with other moms and my former

392
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Speaker 1: friends who who my friends who didn't have kids, like

393
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Speaker 1: kept their nonparent friends like. I think there are ways,

394
00:24:22,240 --> 00:24:25,720
Speaker 1: there are new ways to find of being adult friends

395
00:24:26,440 --> 00:24:29,800
Speaker 1: and and you have to be creative. And I do

396
00:24:29,920 --> 00:24:32,919
Speaker 1: think that a lot of the conversations we have on

397
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Speaker 1: the podcast, people have said to me who don't have children, like,

398
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Speaker 1: you're making me understand my friends lives so much more

399
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Speaker 1: and empathize so much more. And now I feel like

400
00:24:42,160 --> 00:24:44,280
Speaker 1: I can be friends with them. We had UM. This

401
00:24:44,320 --> 00:24:48,840
Speaker 1: one woman, Rachel Garcia, she's a musician UM in California,

402
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Speaker 1: and she and her partner, UM don't plan to have children.

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Speaker 1: And she always sort of was she and her partner

404
00:24:55,280 --> 00:24:57,680
Speaker 1: were like weirded out by their friends who started having kids.

405
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Speaker 1: And then she started listening to the show and she

406
00:24:59,520 --> 00:25:03,040
Speaker 1: felt like she got it so much that they released

407
00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:06,639
Speaker 1: their debut album and one of the songs was a

408
00:25:06,720 --> 00:25:11,320
Speaker 1: lullaby she wrote for her friend's baby, UM because of

409
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Speaker 1: what she learned on the podcast. And so, UM, I

410
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Speaker 1: don't know, I don't think it has to be so divisive. Well,

411
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Speaker 1: what would you recommend then to to say someone in

412
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Speaker 1: my situation without kids who's girlfriends are starting to have

413
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Speaker 1: kids in terms of maintaining that relationship and and not,

414
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Speaker 1: like you said, allowing it to sort of drive a

415
00:25:35,280 --> 00:25:40,359
Speaker 1: wedge between you. I would say, UM, joon't take it

416
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Speaker 1: personally that they don't have as much time for you anymore.

417
00:25:43,880 --> 00:25:47,119
Speaker 1: It's not because they don't want to, it's because they can't.

418
00:25:47,520 --> 00:25:51,720
Speaker 1: And UM, if they're expressing interest in maintaining the friendship,

419
00:25:51,880 --> 00:25:54,960
Speaker 1: see if you can cater to them, UM, at least

420
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Speaker 1: in that first year or two, UM, offer to come

421
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Speaker 1: over and bring dinner or come over and cook with them,

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00:26:02,040 --> 00:26:06,840
Speaker 1: or you know, bring the wine and stay late after

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Speaker 1: the baby goes to bed. Like my husband and I

424
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Speaker 1: have this thing we do where we live in New

425
00:26:11,840 --> 00:26:15,560
Speaker 1: Jersey and we have our friends come out to New

426
00:26:15,640 --> 00:26:18,119
Speaker 1: Jersey from New York and spend the weekend and do

427
00:26:18,240 --> 00:26:21,360
Speaker 1: like a grown up sleepover. And you know, my kid

428
00:26:21,359 --> 00:26:23,199
Speaker 1: goes to bed at eight and then we stay up

429
00:26:23,200 --> 00:26:27,400
Speaker 1: in party and it's the best. So that that that's

430
00:26:27,440 --> 00:26:30,560
Speaker 1: my recommendation. And then and they'll come around if you

431
00:26:30,640 --> 00:26:32,360
Speaker 1: keep that up. That that's going to mean a lot

432
00:26:32,440 --> 00:26:34,480
Speaker 1: to them if you do that, and once they're able

433
00:26:34,560 --> 00:26:37,919
Speaker 1: to like have more of a life that resembles what

434
00:26:37,960 --> 00:26:41,040
Speaker 1: they used to, then they'll be coming back to you. Well,

435
00:26:41,040 --> 00:26:43,360
Speaker 1: and who could turn down an invitation to a grown

436
00:26:43,440 --> 00:26:48,760
Speaker 1: up sleepover? That sounds yeah. Well, you mentioned the Papa's

437
00:26:48,800 --> 00:26:53,359
Speaker 1: group on the longest shortst Time Facebook page, um, and

438
00:26:53,800 --> 00:26:57,080
Speaker 1: it reminds me of how we have heard from so

439
00:26:57,080 --> 00:27:00,360
Speaker 1: so many gentlemen in our stuff I'm gonna or told

440
00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:04,280
Speaker 1: you stent asking for well what about stuff Dad never

441
00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:06,840
Speaker 1: told you? And so I'm wondering, you know, when it

442
00:27:06,920 --> 00:27:11,879
Speaker 1: comes to these conversations about um parenting and family dynamics.

443
00:27:11,960 --> 00:27:16,200
Speaker 1: Do you think that men and dads need more attention?

444
00:27:16,280 --> 00:27:22,560
Speaker 1: Perhaps that's really funny, I UM. I asked my husband

445
00:27:22,600 --> 00:27:25,159
Speaker 1: this question on the train on the way in to

446
00:27:25,280 --> 00:27:28,919
Speaker 1: the city this morning, and he just looked at me

447
00:27:28,960 --> 00:27:33,760
Speaker 1: and very flatly said no. And I said why not?

448
00:27:33,880 --> 00:27:36,360
Speaker 1: And he was like, because if there's stuff I want

449
00:27:36,359 --> 00:27:37,919
Speaker 1: to know about parenting, I just go to look at

450
00:27:37,960 --> 00:27:41,360
Speaker 1: general parenting stuff. I don't need stuff for dad's. Um.

451
00:27:41,400 --> 00:27:43,399
Speaker 1: I don't know if that's how everyone feels, but I

452
00:27:43,480 --> 00:27:48,880
Speaker 1: do think, UM, that there's definitely more of an urgency

453
00:27:48,960 --> 00:27:51,760
Speaker 1: that I see from women feeling like the stuff that

454
00:27:51,800 --> 00:27:56,400
Speaker 1: they're dealing with really needs attention. The dad's, I think

455
00:27:56,680 --> 00:28:02,119
Speaker 1: need more need bonding with each other. And when you phreeze,

456
00:28:02,160 --> 00:28:04,840
Speaker 1: it as like stuff dad never told you. I mean,

457
00:28:05,680 --> 00:28:09,919
Speaker 1: you know, God, this stuff that dads don't tell their kids,

458
00:28:09,720 --> 00:28:15,560
Speaker 1: there's so much right But UM, so maybe there's maybe

459
00:28:15,600 --> 00:28:19,680
Speaker 1: there's more stuff that kids need from their dad's. I

460
00:28:19,720 --> 00:28:22,760
Speaker 1: don't know. I don't know, um, how much of a

461
00:28:22,840 --> 00:28:25,800
Speaker 1: demand there is for dads to be catered to in

462
00:28:25,880 --> 00:28:30,960
Speaker 1: parenting media though. Well, speaking of dads, and we just

463
00:28:31,000 --> 00:28:33,600
Speaker 1: did a podcast on this so I have to ask you, um,

464
00:28:33,640 --> 00:28:36,959
Speaker 1: do you have any thoughts on dad bods. I don't know.

465
00:28:38,960 --> 00:28:41,040
Speaker 1: I think I just think that they're that again, it's

466
00:28:41,080 --> 00:28:45,400
Speaker 1: like there's not as much pressure on dad's to look

467
00:28:45,440 --> 00:28:50,480
Speaker 1: a certain way, you know. Well, and especially after listening

468
00:28:50,520 --> 00:28:53,080
Speaker 1: to this past week, I was I was binge listening

469
00:28:53,120 --> 00:28:58,320
Speaker 1: to a number of old podcast episodes and after listening

470
00:28:58,320 --> 00:29:03,560
Speaker 1: to one on sex after childbirth and thinking about the

471
00:29:03,600 --> 00:29:06,840
Speaker 1: idea of of mom body and how just the entire

472
00:29:06,960 --> 00:29:11,040
Speaker 1: thing is so much different and far more complex than

473
00:29:11,920 --> 00:29:16,280
Speaker 1: this presentation of what a dad bought is. Um, it

474
00:29:16,360 --> 00:29:21,040
Speaker 1: was it was thought provoking, I'll say that. Yeah. I

475
00:29:21,080 --> 00:29:24,320
Speaker 1: mean it's like it's like letting yourself go versus like

476
00:29:24,880 --> 00:29:27,520
Speaker 1: stuff that was done to you, you know what I mean,

477
00:29:28,160 --> 00:29:31,440
Speaker 1: a complete transformation in a way. Yeah, And I don't

478
00:29:31,480 --> 00:29:33,960
Speaker 1: I don't want to like be little dads and what

479
00:29:34,040 --> 00:29:36,080
Speaker 1: they go through. They go through a lot um. But

480
00:29:36,120 --> 00:29:39,760
Speaker 1: I'm just saying I just feel a lot more urgency

481
00:29:39,880 --> 00:29:45,760
Speaker 1: from moms. Well, since this is stuff mom never told you,

482
00:29:46,120 --> 00:29:50,280
Speaker 1: I wanted to ask whether there is a stuff Mom

483
00:29:50,320 --> 00:29:54,640
Speaker 1: never told you? Um, just something just something generally that

484
00:29:54,680 --> 00:30:04,120
Speaker 1: you especially want to ensure that you do tell your daughter, Sasha. Yeah. UM,

485
00:30:04,160 --> 00:30:08,160
Speaker 1: so my mom was was pretty um open with me

486
00:30:08,360 --> 00:30:12,280
Speaker 1: about the stuff that maybe other moms aren't open about,

487
00:30:12,800 --> 00:30:17,760
Speaker 1: like uh, body stuff and sex stuff and whatever tending

488
00:30:17,760 --> 00:30:23,160
Speaker 1: to your mental health needs. UM. But she grew up

489
00:30:23,160 --> 00:30:25,640
Speaker 1: in a time where gender roles were a lot more

490
00:30:26,400 --> 00:30:29,920
Speaker 1: um traditional, and so like she and my dad got

491
00:30:29,960 --> 00:30:34,280
Speaker 1: married right out of college and um, so she never

492
00:30:34,480 --> 00:30:38,160
Speaker 1: lived on her own and never had to really become

493
00:30:38,280 --> 00:30:42,680
Speaker 1: economically educated. And UM, I did live on my own,

494
00:30:43,040 --> 00:30:45,800
Speaker 1: and I needed to figure that stuff out on my own.

495
00:30:46,400 --> 00:30:49,200
Speaker 1: And so I would want to pass that information onto

496
00:30:49,240 --> 00:30:55,080
Speaker 1: my daughter. UM. And I also would want her to

497
00:30:55,240 --> 00:30:58,840
Speaker 1: know that if she winds up in a relationship with

498
00:30:58,880 --> 00:31:03,120
Speaker 1: a man, that men do right thank you notes. So

499
00:31:03,560 --> 00:31:07,160
Speaker 1: my mom, in her traditional ways, UM, places a lot

500
00:31:07,200 --> 00:31:11,640
Speaker 1: of importance on thank you notes and um like when

501
00:31:11,640 --> 00:31:15,520
Speaker 1: I got married and when I had a baby, UM,

502
00:31:15,560 --> 00:31:17,680
Speaker 1: she was kind of stunned by the fact that my

503
00:31:17,760 --> 00:31:20,920
Speaker 1: husband split the thank you note writing with me. UM.

504
00:31:20,960 --> 00:31:24,000
Speaker 1: And so I would want my daughter to know that, yes,

505
00:31:24,080 --> 00:31:28,560
Speaker 1: you can expect your partner to write thank you notes

506
00:31:28,640 --> 00:31:34,120
Speaker 1: to egalitarian thank you notes. I love it. I have

507
00:31:34,160 --> 00:31:39,160
Speaker 1: a wedding coming up next year, so I will remember that, Hillary, Well, say,

508
00:31:39,280 --> 00:31:43,520
Speaker 1: now when it when it comes to the longest shortest

509
00:31:43,520 --> 00:31:46,920
Speaker 1: time catalog and all of the different things, the different

510
00:31:46,920 --> 00:31:50,200
Speaker 1: people that you've talked about, and the experiences that people

511
00:31:50,200 --> 00:31:52,880
Speaker 1: have shared, is there one that stands out in your

512
00:31:52,920 --> 00:31:57,560
Speaker 1: mind that has really made a resounding impression on you?

513
00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:06,800
Speaker 1: Mm hmm. Recently, UM, I talked to this woman, Melinda.

514
00:32:07,880 --> 00:32:13,960
Speaker 1: She is African American and UM had struggled with anxiety

515
00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:20,160
Speaker 1: her entire life and she uh and then when she

516
00:32:20,200 --> 00:32:24,200
Speaker 1: became pregnant, her anxiety kind of like became debilitating. But

517
00:32:24,280 --> 00:32:26,320
Speaker 1: she felt like she couldn't talk about it because in

518
00:32:26,360 --> 00:32:30,720
Speaker 1: her community. UM, there's a real stigma to talking about

519
00:32:30,960 --> 00:32:35,680
Speaker 1: mental health issues. UM. And I just thought she was

520
00:32:35,720 --> 00:32:38,160
Speaker 1: so brave to come out and talk about it. UM.

521
00:32:38,200 --> 00:32:43,120
Speaker 1: And it really really resonated with people of all different cultures.

522
00:32:43,200 --> 00:32:47,440
Speaker 1: And it was really amazing to see how her telling

523
00:32:47,480 --> 00:32:52,520
Speaker 1: her story could could just make other people feel what

524
00:32:52,640 --> 00:32:54,680
Speaker 1: I what I wanted to feel when I first started

525
00:32:54,720 --> 00:33:00,479
Speaker 1: the podcast, which was not alone. UM. So yeah, I

526
00:33:00,520 --> 00:33:04,520
Speaker 1: think I think that one this has been sticking with me. Well,

527
00:33:04,560 --> 00:33:08,800
Speaker 1: it's interesting you mentioned that one because I also just

528
00:33:09,040 --> 00:33:13,400
Speaker 1: listen to that and it had a huge impact on

529
00:33:13,480 --> 00:33:17,440
Speaker 1: me as well because her story, I mean, it made

530
00:33:17,440 --> 00:33:20,560
Speaker 1: me think about all of my fears about the possibility

531
00:33:20,600 --> 00:33:24,000
Speaker 1: of if I become pregnant, if I become a mother,

532
00:33:24,160 --> 00:33:27,719
Speaker 1: and how like my anxiety will interact with that. And

533
00:33:28,920 --> 00:33:32,320
Speaker 1: I was sobbing on and off like listening to it,

534
00:33:32,440 --> 00:33:36,000
Speaker 1: and was just so grateful too to hear her story

535
00:33:36,040 --> 00:33:39,479
Speaker 1: and for it to be told so honestly as well.

536
00:33:39,680 --> 00:33:44,880
Speaker 1: So so thank you for sharing that too. Thanks, thanks

537
00:33:45,080 --> 00:33:50,560
Speaker 1: so uh well for listeners who want to know where

538
00:33:50,600 --> 00:33:53,000
Speaker 1: they can go to learn more about you in the

539
00:33:53,000 --> 00:33:57,360
Speaker 1: longest shortest time and also about your offline events because

540
00:33:57,360 --> 00:33:59,920
Speaker 1: it is not just a podcast, you do meet ups

541
00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:02,160
Speaker 1: in person. UM. Where can they go to find all

542
00:34:02,160 --> 00:34:04,840
Speaker 1: that information? Yeah, so they should go to the Longest

543
00:34:04,840 --> 00:34:09,400
Speaker 1: Shortest Time dot com UM. And we take stories from listeners.

544
00:34:09,440 --> 00:34:13,680
Speaker 1: We take UM stories from parents about their relationships with

545
00:34:13,719 --> 00:34:17,040
Speaker 1: their kids, and we also take stories from kids and

546
00:34:17,080 --> 00:34:20,759
Speaker 1: grown kids about their parents UM. And we also we

547
00:34:20,800 --> 00:34:23,359
Speaker 1: have an app that that you can find on our

548
00:34:23,360 --> 00:34:28,320
Speaker 1: website UM where you can record answers to our questions

549
00:34:28,320 --> 00:34:30,680
Speaker 1: really easily and your voice can wind up on our show.

550
00:34:31,120 --> 00:34:34,000
Speaker 1: And we also do these events that we call speed

551
00:34:34,080 --> 00:34:37,319
Speaker 1: dating for Mom Friends, which is so that moms can

552
00:34:37,360 --> 00:34:40,480
Speaker 1: meet each other. It's a it's a non judge environment

553
00:34:40,719 --> 00:34:43,680
Speaker 1: and um, it's really fun. People come. And we made

554
00:34:43,680 --> 00:34:46,200
Speaker 1: a signature cocktail for the last one called Sex on

555
00:34:46,239 --> 00:34:49,400
Speaker 1: the living Room Floor, and um, we could sort of

556
00:34:49,440 --> 00:34:54,279
Speaker 1: take the guesswork out of making mom friends. Fantastic. Um,

557
00:34:54,320 --> 00:34:56,879
Speaker 1: I'm curious though, what was in what goes into Sex

558
00:34:56,880 --> 00:35:01,280
Speaker 1: on the living Room Floor. It's vodka and club soda

559
00:35:01,960 --> 00:35:06,800
Speaker 1: with fresh orange juice and grapefruit juice. And to top

560
00:35:06,840 --> 00:35:09,880
Speaker 1: it all off, there was there was a lemon wheel.

561
00:35:10,360 --> 00:35:14,239
Speaker 1: But also, um, a sexy lady like a like a

562
00:35:14,360 --> 00:35:30,799
Speaker 1: naked sexy lady. Stir well, that's that's very refreshing. Well,

563
00:35:30,800 --> 00:35:33,200
Speaker 1: thanks so much to Hillary Frank for coming on and

564
00:35:33,280 --> 00:35:37,799
Speaker 1: speaking with Kristen and enlightening all of us about parenthood

565
00:35:38,160 --> 00:35:42,400
Speaker 1: the nitty gritty, like Kristen said, and basically filling us

566
00:35:42,440 --> 00:35:44,799
Speaker 1: in on how she got to where she is. And

567
00:35:44,840 --> 00:35:47,640
Speaker 1: if you want to learn more about Hillary Frank and

568
00:35:47,719 --> 00:35:50,640
Speaker 1: the books she's written, the radio she's produced, the podcast

569
00:35:50,680 --> 00:35:54,040
Speaker 1: and also public speaking that she does, head on over

570
00:35:54,120 --> 00:35:58,640
Speaker 1: to her website, Hillary Frank dot com and for more

571
00:35:58,760 --> 00:36:01,960
Speaker 1: info and more import and lead to listen to the

572
00:36:02,120 --> 00:36:07,040
Speaker 1: Longest Shortest Time. You can head to Longest Shortest Time

573
00:36:07,600 --> 00:36:10,319
Speaker 1: dot com and we'll have links to all of this

574
00:36:10,480 --> 00:36:14,319
Speaker 1: stuff and also some of my favorite Longest Shortest Time

575
00:36:14,400 --> 00:36:18,680
Speaker 1: episodes on this podcast post over at Stuff Mom Never

576
00:36:18,760 --> 00:36:22,360
Speaker 1: Told You dot com. So again, huge thanks to Hillary

577
00:36:22,440 --> 00:36:25,640
Speaker 1: for taking the time to chat with us today and

578
00:36:25,760 --> 00:36:31,680
Speaker 1: kick off our podcast Summer Camp Summer Serious Spectacular Swizzler.

579
00:36:32,960 --> 00:36:35,719
Speaker 1: I don't think what is that the actual name of it? Well, no,

580
00:36:35,840 --> 00:36:37,799
Speaker 1: that's the name of the themed restaurant that you and

581
00:36:37,840 --> 00:36:41,840
Speaker 1: I are going to open. Yes, yeah, so podcasts buffet

582
00:36:42,680 --> 00:36:46,040
Speaker 1: all you can eat so great, please guard and all

583
00:36:46,560 --> 00:36:50,319
Speaker 1: deep fried earbuds love it. Well. Now, we're curious to

584
00:36:50,360 --> 00:36:55,560
Speaker 1: hear from listeners about your parenting stories. Do you feel

585
00:36:55,600 --> 00:37:00,200
Speaker 1: like a lot of times parenting advice glosses over what

586
00:37:00,440 --> 00:37:05,879
Speaker 1: it's really like to make that transition into parenthood um,

587
00:37:05,920 --> 00:37:08,600
Speaker 1: and also if you have any tips on bridging that

588
00:37:08,680 --> 00:37:11,759
Speaker 1: parent non parent divide as well, we'd love to hear

589
00:37:11,840 --> 00:37:15,080
Speaker 1: from you. We always love your stories. Mom Stuff at

590
00:37:15,080 --> 00:37:17,799
Speaker 1: how stuff Works dot com is our email address. You

591
00:37:17,800 --> 00:37:21,560
Speaker 1: can also tweet us at mom Stuff podcast or messages

592
00:37:21,640 --> 00:37:24,160
Speaker 1: on Facebook, and we've got a couple of messages to

593
00:37:24,200 --> 00:37:34,080
Speaker 1: share with you right now. Well, I have a letter

594
00:37:34,120 --> 00:37:39,000
Speaker 1: here from Michelle about our sci Fi Summer Reading episode.

595
00:37:39,600 --> 00:37:42,160
Speaker 1: She says, I love your discussion about women in sci

596
00:37:42,239 --> 00:37:44,480
Speaker 1: fi books. I'm a writer myself, and I gained my

597
00:37:44,560 --> 00:37:46,879
Speaker 1: love for reading sci fi and fantasy from my mother.

598
00:37:47,320 --> 00:37:49,720
Speaker 1: I was so excited to hear some of my favorites mentioned,

599
00:37:49,719 --> 00:37:52,600
Speaker 1: and I've learned some new names. I wanted to share

600
00:37:52,640 --> 00:37:56,120
Speaker 1: another author with you and your listeners. Mercedes Lackey is

601
00:37:56,120 --> 00:37:59,279
Speaker 1: an amazing fantasy writer, and her Harold Mage series is

602
00:37:59,320 --> 00:38:02,680
Speaker 1: where I first encountered a same sex relationship. I think

603
00:38:02,680 --> 00:38:05,440
Speaker 1: the book was Magics Pawn and I was in high school.

604
00:38:05,840 --> 00:38:07,960
Speaker 1: It made me pause when I came across it, but

605
00:38:08,000 --> 00:38:10,200
Speaker 1: I recalled that the relationship was handled in a very

606
00:38:10,239 --> 00:38:12,520
Speaker 1: matter of fact way. The more I read it, the

607
00:38:12,560 --> 00:38:15,720
Speaker 1: more normal quote unquote it seemed to me her writing

608
00:38:15,760 --> 00:38:18,400
Speaker 1: opened my mind to something I had never encountered before

609
00:38:18,440 --> 00:38:21,080
Speaker 1: and helped to set me up for acceptance. Sci Fi

610
00:38:21,160 --> 00:38:24,200
Speaker 1: and fantasy are definitely a great arena to explore the

611
00:38:24,280 --> 00:38:27,279
Speaker 1: unfamiliar in a way that feels safe. I love you both,

612
00:38:27,400 --> 00:38:31,759
Speaker 1: keep up the great conversations. So thanks Michelle, So I've

613
00:38:31,800 --> 00:38:35,160
Speaker 1: got a letter here from Amanda on our Judy Bloom

614
00:38:35,360 --> 00:38:39,160
Speaker 1: summer reading episode. Because one summer reading episode was just

615
00:38:39,200 --> 00:38:43,000
Speaker 1: not enough this summer. So Amanda wrote, thank you so

616
00:38:43,080 --> 00:38:46,320
Speaker 1: much for the Judy Bloom episode for me. The timing

617
00:38:46,320 --> 00:38:49,360
Speaker 1: couldn't have been better. Just last week, I decided I

618
00:38:49,360 --> 00:38:52,080
Speaker 1: wanted to read some of j blues older books. After

619
00:38:52,239 --> 00:38:55,320
Speaker 1: learning that there weren't any copies of India Unlikely event

620
00:38:55,360 --> 00:38:59,040
Speaker 1: currently available at my local library, I decided to read

621
00:38:59,080 --> 00:39:02,520
Speaker 1: Forever and Aly loved it. Two days later, I went

622
00:39:02,680 --> 00:39:05,600
Speaker 1: back to the library and checked out Wifey. I'm twenty

623
00:39:05,640 --> 00:39:07,800
Speaker 1: six years old and this was my first time reading

624
00:39:07,840 --> 00:39:11,000
Speaker 1: either book. I'm not sure why, but I never really

625
00:39:11,040 --> 00:39:13,040
Speaker 1: got into Judy Blue when I was a kid. I

626
00:39:13,080 --> 00:39:15,120
Speaker 1: went to a Catholic grade school and my parents were

627
00:39:15,160 --> 00:39:17,520
Speaker 1: pretty conservative, so I think I was just never exposed

628
00:39:17,520 --> 00:39:20,720
Speaker 1: to some of her more mature books. I was struck

629
00:39:20,760 --> 00:39:24,360
Speaker 1: by how progressive and relevant Forever seemed, despite being written

630
00:39:24,400 --> 00:39:27,280
Speaker 1: forty years ago. I just loved the message that people

631
00:39:27,280 --> 00:39:29,759
Speaker 1: fall in love, have sex, breakup, and move on and

632
00:39:29,840 --> 00:39:33,400
Speaker 1: that's okay. It's such an ordinary story, but one that

633
00:39:33,480 --> 00:39:35,880
Speaker 1: would have been so helpful for me to read as

634
00:39:35,880 --> 00:39:38,160
Speaker 1: a teenager. I hope I can share it with my

635
00:39:38,239 --> 00:39:42,680
Speaker 1: future children some day. I enjoyed Wifey even more. Kristen,

636
00:39:42,800 --> 00:39:45,799
Speaker 1: I too love a good oppressed housewives story, so this

637
00:39:45,880 --> 00:39:48,239
Speaker 1: was right up my alley. I would love to hear

638
00:39:48,239 --> 00:39:50,200
Speaker 1: what you think of it when you read it. I

639
00:39:50,239 --> 00:39:52,160
Speaker 1: think I read this book at the exact right time

640
00:39:52,200 --> 00:39:54,239
Speaker 1: of my life. I'm not sure if I would have

641
00:39:54,280 --> 00:39:57,200
Speaker 1: appreciated it as a teenager or even as a younger adult.

642
00:39:57,640 --> 00:40:00,919
Speaker 1: As a young married lady, I found it totally fascinating.

643
00:40:01,320 --> 00:40:04,240
Speaker 1: I can't wait to get my hands on more. J Blue,

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00:40:04,960 --> 00:40:07,759
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