WEBVTT - #026 Jason Flom with Daniel Tapia 0:00:04.080 --> 0:00:06.240 I think we have the best legal system. It's just 0:00:06.280 --> 0:00:09.600 the people that implement they get lost along the way 0:00:09.600 --> 0:00:11.479 and forget what their job really is. 0:00:13.119 --> 0:00:15.800 He just kept on trying to remind me that who 0:00:15.880 --> 0:00:19.040 was in authority, who was in control, and how easy 0:00:19.079 --> 0:00:23.360 it was for my body to be found in any 0:00:23.440 --> 0:00:24.760 alley of New York City. 0:00:25.800 --> 0:00:28.479 It's a tough prison when you have the guards going 0:00:28.520 --> 0:00:31.880 against you because they are the biggest gang in the prison. 0:00:33.120 --> 0:00:35.280 They do that. They'll give a guy a life sentence 0:00:35.440 --> 0:00:37.560 and go home in eat spaghetti like it was nothing. 0:00:38.960 --> 0:00:41.120 And anybody that said, well, why would you confess to 0:00:41.280 --> 0:00:43.959 something that you didn't do? My question to them will 0:00:44.000 --> 0:00:46.920 be why wouldn't you confess when somebody's threatening to kill 0:00:46.920 --> 0:00:47.400 your life? 0:00:48.800 --> 0:00:50.720 The judge, he said, how you feel? 0:00:50.760 --> 0:00:52.919 I said, I'm okay. He said, well, the days you're 0:00:52.960 --> 0:00:55.280 lucky day you're going home. 0:00:56.840 --> 0:01:15.480 This is Wrongful Conviction. Welcome back to Wrongful Conviction with 0:01:15.600 --> 0:01:19.399 Jason Flamm. Today we are recording from New Orleans with 0:01:19.720 --> 0:01:24.560 a very special individual. My friend Daniel Tapia is here today. Daniel, 0:01:24.600 --> 0:01:25.319 welcome to the show. 0:01:25.440 --> 0:01:26.680 Thank you, thank you, thanks for having me. 0:01:27.080 --> 0:01:29.839 Well let's start with this. We're in New Orleans, which 0:01:29.880 --> 0:01:33.560 is the epicenter of the problem with the criminal justice 0:01:33.560 --> 0:01:37.639 system or the world. Actually, America locks up more people 0:01:37.680 --> 0:01:39.760 per capita than any place in the world, five times 0:01:39.760 --> 0:01:41.280 as many people per capita as the rest of the 0:01:41.280 --> 0:01:46.160 Western world, fourteen times as many as Japan, which is insane. 0:01:46.480 --> 0:01:50.400 Louisiana locks up twice as many people per capita as 0:01:50.400 --> 0:01:54.040 the rest of the United States, and New Orleans locks 0:01:54.120 --> 0:01:58.480 up more people than any other county or city in Louisiana, sir. 0:01:59.200 --> 0:02:04.320 So overall, it's really not that shocking that somebody like 0:02:04.360 --> 0:02:06.360 you could be wrongfully convicted in a place like this. 0:02:06.880 --> 0:02:08.600 That happens way too often. 0:02:08.680 --> 0:02:13.440 Unfortunately, it's really troubling. Daniel was forced to take a 0:02:13.480 --> 0:02:17.400 plea even though he's innocent, because had he not done that, 0:02:17.639 --> 0:02:19.560 he'd probably be in prison for the rest of his life. 0:02:19.600 --> 0:02:23.520 Is that fair, Yes, sir, because the way things roll 0:02:23.720 --> 0:02:25.960 down here, and to be fair, in most of the 0:02:25.960 --> 0:02:27.800 rest of the country, a huge number of people are 0:02:27.840 --> 0:02:31.520 faced with the same sort of Sophie's choice that you had, 0:02:32.080 --> 0:02:33.920 which is either plead guilty and sort of have that 0:02:33.960 --> 0:02:36.840 scarlet letter, or try to fight for your innocence and 0:02:37.240 --> 0:02:39.720 run the risk of the very likely scenario that you're 0:02:39.720 --> 0:02:40.919 going to spend the rest of your life in prison. 0:02:40.960 --> 0:02:44.080 So let's go back to your case, because it's like 0:02:44.160 --> 0:02:45.520 something out of a movie. 0:02:45.600 --> 0:02:47.680 It absolutely is. That's the only way I know how 0:02:47.680 --> 0:02:48.720 to go a bad movie. 0:02:48.960 --> 0:02:52.679 So walk us through that. What happened? Where were you? 0:02:52.840 --> 0:02:54.400 How did you get caught up in this? 0:02:54.800 --> 0:02:57.720 Okay? I used to live in the Calio Projects in 0:02:57.760 --> 0:03:01.360 New Waters, That's where this incident occurred. That so on 0:03:01.440 --> 0:03:03.320 the day that it occurred, I was with a friend 0:03:03.320 --> 0:03:05.000 of mine. Let me say this. I had just bought 0:03:05.040 --> 0:03:07.400 my first call. I was a teenager. I was eighteen 0:03:07.480 --> 0:03:10.839 years old, just bought my first call, and basically all 0:03:10.840 --> 0:03:14.120 I was doing was everybody I knew, all my friends, anybody, Hey, 0:03:14.120 --> 0:03:15.840 you need to ride, Let's go this place, Let's go 0:03:15.840 --> 0:03:16.240 to that place. 0:03:16.240 --> 0:03:16.400 You know. 0:03:16.440 --> 0:03:19.480 We just were riding around everywhere, typical of most teenagers 0:03:19.520 --> 0:03:22.760 when they buy their first vehicle, especially when you're the 0:03:22.800 --> 0:03:24.600 only one out of your friends who has one at 0:03:24.600 --> 0:03:27.560 the time. You know, the data incident happened. I was 0:03:27.560 --> 0:03:29.520 outside talking to another friend of mine. Me and one 0:03:29.520 --> 0:03:30.920 of my friends were getting ready to leave, and he 0:03:31.000 --> 0:03:32.639 was like, where y'all about to go? I said, we 0:03:32.639 --> 0:03:34.400 I'm gonna go pass by my girlfriend and then we 0:03:34.480 --> 0:03:37.480 probably gonna go downtown, which was you know, I lived uptown. 0:03:37.640 --> 0:03:39.360 So he said, all right, well just drop me off 0:03:39.400 --> 0:03:40.880 on your way over there. So I said, all right. 0:03:40.880 --> 0:03:43.560 So I dropped him off, and a friend of mine 0:03:43.640 --> 0:03:46.680 had recently been another guy that I knew. He had 0:03:46.680 --> 0:03:50.440 recently been shot by another individual, and you know, he 0:03:50.600 --> 0:03:52.440 was my friend who I was dropping off. Was going 0:03:52.440 --> 0:03:55.600 to check on him because he lived upstairs where I 0:03:55.640 --> 0:03:57.440 was dropping him off, fat in the projects on the 0:03:57.520 --> 0:04:00.680 other side. So as I dropped him off, he gets out, 0:04:00.720 --> 0:04:02.920 he goes in there. I pulled off. I pull up 0:04:03.080 --> 0:04:05.880 way I was going to. My girlfriend was probably approximately 0:04:06.240 --> 0:04:09.320 maybe two to three blocks away. She lived in another driveway. 0:04:09.400 --> 0:04:12.279 And if I'm going that way, I started hearing gunshots. 0:04:13.000 --> 0:04:15.240 And when I started hearing gunshots, my friend who was 0:04:15.280 --> 0:04:17.320 in the vehicle with me, he's like, man, you know 0:04:17.400 --> 0:04:20.279 that's coming from where we just dropped off with my 0:04:20.360 --> 0:04:23.200 other two friends. So I look back. I can't see 0:04:23.240 --> 0:04:25.760 anything because the way the buildings are you can't see 0:04:26.040 --> 0:04:28.360 over to what's going on. All I hear is gunshots. 0:04:28.560 --> 0:04:31.320 And then I start hearing gunshots getting rapid succession like 0:04:31.360 --> 0:04:34.160 a semi automatic, you know, like assault rifle. You can 0:04:34.200 --> 0:04:36.000 you know the difference between a sault rifle and a 0:04:36.000 --> 0:04:39.000 pistol going off? I mean, it's shot after shot, it's 0:04:39.040 --> 0:04:42.800 just relentless shot after shot. At that time, probably less 0:04:42.839 --> 0:04:46.920 than a minute later, my friend and his friend come running, 0:04:47.000 --> 0:04:49.760 and as they're running, somebody's behind them shooting at them 0:04:50.040 --> 0:04:51.440 with the assault rifle. 0:04:51.440 --> 0:04:51.760 Over whatever. 0:04:51.880 --> 0:04:53.960 It sounds like a video game, yes, sir, but it 0:04:54.040 --> 0:04:54.520 was crazy. 0:04:54.560 --> 0:04:57.520 No, it's real life. It's split second. You gotta make 0:04:57.520 --> 0:04:59.640 a decision. What are you gonna do? So, as he's running, 0:05:00.440 --> 0:05:02.839 he's running towards me, and I see him, so I 0:05:03.320 --> 0:05:04.960 you know, I'm looking. I get back in my car 0:05:05.000 --> 0:05:07.240 and he comes running towards my car. Pull up, he 0:05:07.320 --> 0:05:09.000 jumps in my car. I take off. I'm like, man, 0:05:09.040 --> 0:05:11.920 what happened? He's like, man, just go, just go, just go. So, 0:05:12.080 --> 0:05:14.080 I know somebody's shooting at him. You know, I don't 0:05:14.120 --> 0:05:16.400 know exactly what went on, but I see someone shooting 0:05:16.440 --> 0:05:16.720 at him. 0:05:16.720 --> 0:05:19.160 Well, someone shoot at him. They' shooting at ut exactly now. 0:05:19.200 --> 0:05:21.320 Yeah, So there's no time to sit around and think 0:05:21.360 --> 0:05:23.279 about what happened or what might have happened. What's the 0:05:23.320 --> 0:05:25.839 right decision? Was not the right decision. So I pull 0:05:25.920 --> 0:05:27.800 off and I pull out of the driveway, and I 0:05:27.880 --> 0:05:31.920 mean less than maybe two blocks. There's cops coming from everywhere. 0:05:32.279 --> 0:05:35.280 So I stopped. I didn't do anything, you know, I stopped. 0:05:35.360 --> 0:05:37.320 I pull over to the side of the road. And 0:05:37.360 --> 0:05:38.839 as I pull over to the side of the road, 0:05:38.880 --> 0:05:41.280 they come pulling up on us. So, you know, I 0:05:41.360 --> 0:05:43.240 put my hands up, get out the car. Whatever. I 0:05:43.279 --> 0:05:45.719 know something happened, but I don't know what happened. I know, 0:05:46.040 --> 0:05:47.560 you know, there was a shooting going on. I don't 0:05:47.600 --> 0:05:50.000 know what happened, though, So we get out. They pull 0:05:50.080 --> 0:05:51.800 us all out, They separate all of us, put us 0:05:51.800 --> 0:05:54.039 in different places. Four of you, four of us, Yes, sir, 0:05:54.080 --> 0:05:55.719 it was four of us. And this is where the 0:05:55.760 --> 0:05:58.839 story gets crazy. This is where it starts not making 0:05:58.880 --> 0:05:59.360 sense at all. 0:05:59.440 --> 0:06:00.240 Pretty crazy so far. 0:06:00.320 --> 0:06:02.039 But yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well I'm gonna 0:06:02.040 --> 0:06:04.680 just say, you know, this is when the corruption starts. 0:06:04.760 --> 0:06:07.880 Let me put it like that. So as we get stopped, 0:06:07.920 --> 0:06:09.520 we get pulled out. So I don't know what the 0:06:09.520 --> 0:06:11.279 cops are telling the other guy. But there's a black 0:06:11.320 --> 0:06:14.719 car that pulls is a black Cadillac with tinted windows 0:06:14.720 --> 0:06:16.599 and rims in it. And a guy pulls in front 0:06:16.640 --> 0:06:19.360 and gets out, and he comes straight to where I'm 0:06:19.360 --> 0:06:20.760 at and he comes back there and he opens the 0:06:20.800 --> 0:06:23.160 door and he tells me he's a police officer. He 0:06:23.240 --> 0:06:25.600 just saw everything that happened, and he knows I didn't 0:06:25.600 --> 0:06:27.479 have anything to do with it, but he needs to 0:06:27.520 --> 0:06:29.919 know what's going on because it's the second murder in 0:06:30.000 --> 0:06:32.400 the neighborhood within that week. That was someone who was 0:06:32.480 --> 0:06:34.960 killed maybe a block away from where this incident happened, 0:06:35.200 --> 0:06:37.840 about five days before that, the Calio Projects in New Orleans. 0:06:37.880 --> 0:06:39.560 There was a lot of murders, a lot of stuff 0:06:39.600 --> 0:06:41.359 going on. It's a really bad neighborhood to grow up 0:06:41.360 --> 0:06:43.640 in and living. And so I told him, I said, look, 0:06:43.680 --> 0:06:45.400 I don't know what happened. I don't know anything about 0:06:45.400 --> 0:06:47.360 the shooting. I said, man, I was just over here 0:06:47.360 --> 0:06:50.120 and I heard some shots. So he punched me. He 0:06:50.200 --> 0:06:52.680 hit me. He said, you're trying to take up for him. 0:06:52.920 --> 0:06:54.200 I said, look, well, look I want to talk to 0:06:54.240 --> 0:06:54.680 a lawyer. 0:06:54.720 --> 0:06:54.920 Man. 0:06:54.960 --> 0:06:56.840 You know, I ain't got nothing else to say to y'all. 0:06:56.920 --> 0:06:58.920 Y'all sitting here punching on me saying I'm lying. I 0:06:58.960 --> 0:07:01.640 ain't got nothing to say, so then he slams the door. 0:07:01.880 --> 0:07:04.480 So then one after one, cops start coming up to 0:07:04.520 --> 0:07:06.440 the car and they open the back door, and they 0:07:06.480 --> 0:07:09.560 keep asking me what my race is. I'm like, what 0:07:09.720 --> 0:07:11.600 my race is? What the what does that have to 0:07:11.600 --> 0:07:13.400 do with anything? Why y'all keep why? Why are these 0:07:13.440 --> 0:07:15.920 cops so interesting if I'm black or white? And so 0:07:16.200 --> 0:07:18.560 I don't think anything of it. I'm just, you know whatever, 0:07:18.720 --> 0:07:22.000 the stupid cops. You know, I'm not thinking anything. Well, 0:07:22.400 --> 0:07:25.120 the captain of the sixth District comes and he tells me, 0:07:25.840 --> 0:07:27.560 because I want to take up for them, he's gonna 0:07:27.560 --> 0:07:29.320 make sure I get the death penalty win him after, 0:07:29.480 --> 0:07:32.200 you know alone whatever. We've been sitting out there, maybe 0:07:32.200 --> 0:07:33.320 two three hours now. 0:07:33.320 --> 0:07:34.960 Right, The problem being that you don't actually know. 0:07:35.000 --> 0:07:36.120 What I don't know what happened. 0:07:36.280 --> 0:07:37.880 So even if you wanted to tell him that, you 0:07:38.080 --> 0:07:40.520 certainly would not if you couldn't live in that neighborhood 0:07:41.280 --> 0:07:43.720 on exactly, but there was no snitching, you would have 0:07:43.760 --> 0:07:45.080 to just make up a story out of thin air. 0:07:45.200 --> 0:07:49.160 Yeah, I really legitimately don't know what happened for real, 0:07:49.440 --> 0:07:51.040 because I couldn't see over it that I couldn't see 0:07:51.080 --> 0:07:53.120 what was going on. But I know in my heart, 0:07:53.160 --> 0:07:54.680 I'm like, I didn't I didn't have anything to do 0:07:54.800 --> 0:07:56.840 with this. So I'm not even worrying about if I'm 0:07:56.840 --> 0:07:58.880 gonna go to jail or if you know, because I'm like, 0:07:58.880 --> 0:08:01.600 I didn't do anything. I stopped, y'all, I stopped, I 0:08:01.640 --> 0:08:03.559 got out. I don't know, y'all. Tell y'all are telling 0:08:03.600 --> 0:08:05.680 me what happened. I don't know what happened. Y'all are 0:08:05.720 --> 0:08:07.680 telling me that somebody got shot and all this type 0:08:07.680 --> 0:08:12.560 of stuff. So I go to jail and they let 0:08:12.640 --> 0:08:14.560 the guy who was with me, my friend who was 0:08:14.600 --> 0:08:17.080 with me, they let him go that same night, and 0:08:17.120 --> 0:08:19.520 I'm just thinking of my head like this, this is crazy, you. 0:08:19.560 --> 0:08:22.160 Know, like what this is the guy who came running 0:08:22.200 --> 0:08:22.720 into the car. 0:08:22.840 --> 0:08:24.640 No, this was another guy, the guy who was with 0:08:24.720 --> 0:08:26.640 me at the time when the other guys came running 0:08:26.640 --> 0:08:28.440 to the car. There was two guys who ran to 0:08:28.480 --> 0:08:29.840 the car, and it was me and another friend of 0:08:29.880 --> 0:08:32.080 mine who were in the car at the time already. 0:08:31.840 --> 0:08:34.320 And they let him go, but they didn't let me go. 0:08:34.400 --> 0:08:36.880 So I'm like, man, you know why they taking me 0:08:37.200 --> 0:08:39.080 and and let him go. It's like, you know, but 0:08:39.160 --> 0:08:41.959 I still don't know what's going on. I didn't actually 0:08:41.960 --> 0:08:44.560 find out what was going when it actually happened until 0:08:44.559 --> 0:08:47.360 when I was in jail, had been processed about three 0:08:47.440 --> 0:08:49.360 days later, because I didn't even see myself on a 0:08:49.440 --> 0:08:53.280 news I got a newspaper article from somebody. They let 0:08:53.360 --> 0:08:55.000 me see the newspaper when I got up on the 0:08:55.040 --> 0:08:57.120 til I was going on, and I read what happened, 0:08:57.440 --> 0:09:00.120 and I was like, what, holy shit. And then I 0:09:00.120 --> 0:09:02.240 start reading how they trying to involve me in and 0:09:02.280 --> 0:09:04.960 I'm like, man, that's not even what happened. But I mean, 0:09:05.000 --> 0:09:06.319 what can I say? What can I do about it? 0:09:06.360 --> 0:09:08.840 I'm in jail now, So the first thing I'm thinking is, 0:09:08.840 --> 0:09:10.800 all right, this is gonna get played out in court. 0:09:10.880 --> 0:09:13.240 You know, I'll go to court. It'll be over. You know, 0:09:13.320 --> 0:09:15.840 they'll see Because the cops telling me he saw everything 0:09:15.880 --> 0:09:18.000 that happened and he knows I didn't have anything to 0:09:18.000 --> 0:09:20.200 do with it, and he told me because he thinks 0:09:20.200 --> 0:09:21.880 I'm trying to take up for them, that he's gonna 0:09:22.320 --> 0:09:24.280 mess over me. But I'm like, this guy is't really 0:09:24.280 --> 0:09:26.920 gonna go through this and really come in here and 0:09:26.960 --> 0:09:29.000 lie in court and say, you know that I had 0:09:29.040 --> 0:09:31.880 something to do with something I didn't, but he did. 0:09:32.040 --> 0:09:35.560 And what's crazy is that even as they played the 0:09:35.640 --> 0:09:38.480 dispatch tape of him calling in the shooting that he 0:09:38.559 --> 0:09:42.360 allegedly witnessed, it doesn't even line up with what he 0:09:42.440 --> 0:09:44.600 testified to in court, Like it doesn't even make. 0:09:44.480 --> 0:09:46.600 Sense because he called in and said it was three 0:09:46.600 --> 0:09:46.920 black men. 0:09:47.000 --> 0:09:48.520 He called in and said it was three black males, 0:09:48.520 --> 0:09:50.520 which obviously I have no melody. I don't have a 0:09:50.600 --> 0:09:54.320 drop of it in my skin. That's all I can. Yeah, 0:09:54.360 --> 0:09:56.840 that's it, you know, especially in that neighborhood. I'm one 0:09:56.880 --> 0:09:59.480 of the only white people in that neighborhood period. 0:10:00.280 --> 0:10:03.000 Actually, if he did witness the shooting, it would have 0:10:03.040 --> 0:10:04.720 been really easy for him to identify it. 0:10:04.760 --> 0:10:05.880 Just spotted me a mile away. 0:10:05.920 --> 0:10:07.240 If I had something, it would have been, yeah, that's 0:10:07.240 --> 0:10:08.920 the white guy from the name right exactly. 0:10:09.520 --> 0:10:12.000 And you said it was three black males. But when 0:10:12.000 --> 0:10:14.640 you stopped us, you stopped three black males and meet 0:10:14.720 --> 0:10:17.080 and you let one of them go, which he didn't 0:10:17.120 --> 0:10:18.760 have anything to do with it either. But it's just 0:10:18.760 --> 0:10:21.719 a thought like where is all this going? Like how 0:10:21.720 --> 0:10:24.320 does this even make sense to y'all to actually prosecute this. 0:10:25.320 --> 0:10:28.360 It took over two years and I was eventually convicted 0:10:28.400 --> 0:10:29.400 the second agree murder. 0:10:29.440 --> 0:10:32.040 It took two years for the trial to resolve. So 0:10:32.120 --> 0:10:34.000 you were in jail for two years waiting. 0:10:33.720 --> 0:10:35.360 To go to trial, yes, sir, thinking I was going 0:10:35.400 --> 0:10:38.000 to go home, and I didn't. They convicted me, and 0:10:38.160 --> 0:10:40.200 it was it was the most surreal feeling I ever 0:10:40.200 --> 0:10:41.080 felt in my life. 0:10:41.280 --> 0:10:44.040 And the crime happened in two thousand and three. 0:10:43.920 --> 0:10:46.240 Yes, sir, April eleven, two thousand and three. 0:10:46.000 --> 0:10:49.720 And Hurricane Katrina has a role in this whole crazy 0:10:49.760 --> 0:10:53.760 saga of your life as well. Definitely, So let's talk 0:10:53.800 --> 0:10:54.160 about that. 0:10:55.160 --> 0:10:58.959 So in August two thousand and five, Hurricane Katrina comes true. 0:10:59.400 --> 0:11:01.920 So in the day leading up to Katrina, they basically 0:11:02.040 --> 0:11:05.080 just it was like nothing was gonna happen, no big deal. 0:11:05.280 --> 0:11:07.840 I'm looking at this giant storm coming our way, but 0:11:07.880 --> 0:11:10.160 there's no preparations being made. They're not moving us out 0:11:10.200 --> 0:11:12.160 of the line of fire. They're not taking us to 0:11:12.200 --> 0:11:14.480 another prison up north or something where we're out of 0:11:14.520 --> 0:11:16.560 the way of the storm and out of horms way. 0:11:16.920 --> 0:11:21.959 They just left us there. Friday, Hurricane Katrina hitting Sunday 0:11:22.400 --> 0:11:25.040 that Friday. They turned the phones off inside the jail, 0:11:25.080 --> 0:11:27.240 so nobody can make a phone call outside to talk 0:11:27.240 --> 0:11:28.840 to their family, anything like that, or let them know 0:11:28.880 --> 0:11:29.959 that we were still in there. 0:11:30.200 --> 0:11:31.280 Which jail was it again? 0:11:31.440 --> 0:11:32.400 Orleans Paris Prison? 0:11:32.440 --> 0:11:34.640 And what does that look like? Is it a tall building? 0:11:34.760 --> 0:11:35.400 Is it a flat? 0:11:35.640 --> 0:11:37.000 It's four stories tall. 0:11:36.960 --> 0:11:39.120 So it's not tall at all. Not when you have Hurricane. 0:11:38.840 --> 0:11:40.960 Katrina coming, not at all, Not at all. 0:11:41.040 --> 0:11:42.760 And if you're on the first the second floor, if. 0:11:42.640 --> 0:11:45.240 You're on the first floor, you'd have been dead because 0:11:45.280 --> 0:11:46.920 I was on the second floor and we were standing 0:11:46.960 --> 0:11:47.360 in water. 0:11:48.440 --> 0:11:52.440 So let me just get this straight. Hurricane Katrina's coming 0:11:52.760 --> 0:11:55.680 one of the biggest storms in the history of this country. Yes, sir, 0:11:55.880 --> 0:11:59.440 didn't take anybody by surprise. No, everybody saw that thing. 0:12:00.040 --> 0:12:03.400 He's coming a mile away, days away. There's one time 0:12:03.400 --> 0:12:04.400 the weather men actually. 0:12:04.160 --> 0:12:04.800 Got it right. Yeah. 0:12:04.840 --> 0:12:06.160 Yeah, they couldn't mess that one up. 0:12:06.240 --> 0:12:10.080 So they decided that the appropriate response would be to 0:12:10.760 --> 0:12:13.600 abandon you there because they want to go protect their 0:12:13.600 --> 0:12:16.199 own asses. Yes, and turn off the phones. 0:12:16.320 --> 0:12:18.240 Yes, that's exactly what they did. 0:12:18.480 --> 0:12:21.040 So the storm comes, you were on the second. 0:12:20.800 --> 0:12:22.000 Floor, I was on the second floor. 0:12:22.040 --> 0:12:24.800 What was the vibe? What was everybody saying and doing? 0:12:24.840 --> 0:12:27.040 I mean, like it just just when you think things 0:12:27.080 --> 0:12:27.760 can't get worse. 0:12:27.960 --> 0:12:30.520 Yeah, So what happened was we were all on a 0:12:30.600 --> 0:12:33.240 tib and of course, you know the power went out. 0:12:33.559 --> 0:12:37.400 When the power goes out before the deputies basically locked 0:12:37.480 --> 0:12:39.840 us in there. Left We can see out the window 0:12:39.840 --> 0:12:42.280 onto the fourth floor, which is the highest level inside 0:12:42.280 --> 0:12:44.839 of the building. Up there, that's where the deputies have 0:12:44.920 --> 0:12:48.440 stationed themselves at. They removed the inmates who were up 0:12:48.440 --> 0:12:50.720 there on the fourth floor and put them at lower floors. 0:12:51.000 --> 0:12:52.600 And they were up there and they had like some 0:12:52.679 --> 0:12:54.880 of their family members and stuff in there up on 0:12:54.920 --> 0:12:58.000 the fourth floor, and they were up there cooking, and 0:12:58.320 --> 0:12:59.880 you know, you could see they had like a barbecue 0:13:00.200 --> 0:13:01.880 and they had all the food that was left. They 0:13:02.000 --> 0:13:04.360 took it up there with them. So they locked us 0:13:04.400 --> 0:13:06.559 inside of our tears, which is your cell blocks of 0:13:06.600 --> 0:13:10.000 your domes, and we had no food. Once the storm 0:13:10.000 --> 0:13:11.920 comes to you, we have no running water, we have no 0:13:12.000 --> 0:13:14.480 clean water, we have nothing. We can barely even breathe 0:13:14.480 --> 0:13:17.400 in there because it's stifling from the lack of air 0:13:17.520 --> 0:13:20.720 and circulation going on inside there, and you've got on 0:13:20.800 --> 0:13:24.360 a particular tier I was on. There's enough beds for 0:13:24.360 --> 0:13:27.600 forty two people. We had about sixty four at the 0:13:27.640 --> 0:13:30.600 time up there, and like I said, with nothing else, 0:13:30.679 --> 0:13:33.600 not even enough beds for everybody to be in. Obviously, 0:13:33.640 --> 0:13:37.040 being in prison, you around other people who are maybe 0:13:37.080 --> 0:13:39.480 not so nice individuals and who have different beefs and 0:13:39.480 --> 0:13:42.200 stuff from the street, and so when the lights go out, 0:13:42.760 --> 0:13:44.720 nobody wants to be that guy, because I mean you 0:13:44.760 --> 0:13:46.640 literally couldn't see your hand in front of your face 0:13:46.880 --> 0:13:49.240 when the power was out in there. So you had 0:13:49.280 --> 0:13:52.800 guys that started lighting fires inside of there and stuff 0:13:52.840 --> 0:13:55.360 like that, and there's no air, there's no circulation, there's 0:13:55.400 --> 0:13:58.559 no windows, there's no anyway for this smoke to get out. 0:13:58.960 --> 0:14:01.920 So you got these idiots who started a fire on 0:14:01.960 --> 0:14:04.760 the other side, and there's smoke going all through the 0:14:04.760 --> 0:14:07.040 inside of the dome where we at. So we had 0:14:07.040 --> 0:14:09.559 to break windows in order for the smoke to get out, 0:14:09.600 --> 0:14:12.120 just so we could breathe and everybody didn't suffocate up there. 0:14:12.280 --> 0:14:13.480 How did you break a window? 0:14:13.520 --> 0:14:16.320 I mean, yeah, they have bars around them and it's 0:14:16.360 --> 0:14:19.960 reinforced glass. But we had like a big iron metal 0:14:20.000 --> 0:14:22.720 bar that goes across the shower, and we ended up 0:14:22.760 --> 0:14:25.320 breaking that down out of the wall and use that 0:14:25.640 --> 0:14:27.760 along with a broom and a mopstick that was up 0:14:27.800 --> 0:14:30.080 there to just beat on a glass until it put 0:14:30.280 --> 0:14:32.320 a hole in it. And once it put a hole 0:14:32.360 --> 0:14:33.880 in it, we just chipped the way at it and 0:14:33.880 --> 0:14:36.320 broke it out. So the bars were still intact, like 0:14:36.320 --> 0:14:38.600 we couldn't get out of the window, but the glass 0:14:38.640 --> 0:14:41.640 itself was broken where we could. Air was able to 0:14:41.640 --> 0:14:42.560 come in and go out. 0:14:43.040 --> 0:14:47.280 So that saved everybody's life right there. Literally, you're painting 0:14:47.400 --> 0:14:51.840 a picture of literally the worst imaginable scenario that anybody 0:14:51.840 --> 0:14:57.320 could be in. It's dark, it's stifling heat, there's no air. 0:14:57.640 --> 0:15:00.440 No food, no food, no water over all of. 0:15:00.400 --> 0:15:03.200 Them, and a storm coming in that just might kill 0:15:03.240 --> 0:15:03.560 you all. 0:15:03.720 --> 0:15:06.080 Yeah. Well, by this time the storm had passed when 0:15:06.120 --> 0:15:07.960 the part of the lights and everything went off, the 0:15:08.000 --> 0:15:10.920 storm had passed. Now, with Hurricane Katrina, it wasn't the 0:15:10.960 --> 0:15:14.600 storm itself that caused the flooded. That's why we were 0:15:14.600 --> 0:15:17.800 so lost. Because the storm came, the wind came through, 0:15:17.840 --> 0:15:20.120 the rain came through, the power went out, and then 0:15:20.160 --> 0:15:22.880 it passed and the sun was shining outside. Well, all 0:15:22.920 --> 0:15:25.200 of a sudden, now we're seeing water just coming up 0:15:25.240 --> 0:15:26.520 and up and up and up and up and up, 0:15:26.520 --> 0:15:27.880 and we're looking out the wind and we're like, man, 0:15:27.920 --> 0:15:30.320 where's all this fucking water coming from? You know, it 0:15:30.480 --> 0:15:32.880 just keeps pouring, raising up and up closer to where 0:15:32.960 --> 0:15:35.440 we are, until eventually it's to the second floor where 0:15:35.440 --> 0:15:38.800 we're at. Well, at the time, the building where I 0:15:38.920 --> 0:15:41.240 was at, we were right next to the coroner's office. 0:15:41.440 --> 0:15:43.800 We didn't process this at the time because you know, 0:15:43.840 --> 0:15:46.200 you're just not thinking about what it could potentially be. 0:15:46.720 --> 0:15:49.800 We look outside the winter and it's dead bodies floating 0:15:50.240 --> 0:15:53.440 right right around the window right where we are, right 0:15:53.480 --> 0:15:56.280 next to us. There was at least seven dead bodies 0:15:56.280 --> 0:15:58.720 that were floating around out there. So we're like, man, 0:15:58.760 --> 0:16:01.760 this fucking water's coming up. There's no guards, no help, 0:16:01.800 --> 0:16:04.240 no food, no water, and we got dead blodies floating 0:16:04.280 --> 0:16:06.400 around in the window next to us. But there came 0:16:06.440 --> 0:16:08.840 from the corner's office. Because the corner's office, which was 0:16:08.880 --> 0:16:11.120 on the first floor, was completely submerged in water and 0:16:11.160 --> 0:16:14.280 floated up. We didn't realize that until after everything was over. 0:16:14.360 --> 0:16:17.720 We just in panicked. Now everybody's panicking there's fucking water's 0:16:17.760 --> 0:16:20.880 coming up, there's nobody here with us. We're locked inside 0:16:20.880 --> 0:16:23.560 of here, literally can't get out. There's dead bodies floating 0:16:23.600 --> 0:16:26.560 around the fucking window next to us, and we don't 0:16:26.560 --> 0:16:29.320 even know if anybody even knows we're here more or 0:16:29.360 --> 0:16:31.360 les's gonna come rescue us and get us out of here. 0:16:31.640 --> 0:16:33.520 What happened to the people on the first floor? 0:16:34.240 --> 0:16:36.560 They had got moved. Oh, that was the one thing 0:16:36.640 --> 0:16:38.760 I give them credit that they were smart enough to do, 0:16:39.200 --> 0:16:41.280 is they moved the people off of the first floor. 0:16:41.520 --> 0:16:43.680 There's a lot of rumors about some people were left 0:16:43.680 --> 0:16:45.880 down there and stuff like that. I'll never know the 0:16:45.880 --> 0:16:47.880 truth on that, because some of the guys who were 0:16:47.880 --> 0:16:49.880 on the first floor edded up on the second floor 0:16:49.880 --> 0:16:52.240 with me where I was at, and they just moved 0:16:52.280 --> 0:16:54.800 them and kind of separated them on different tears. Like 0:16:54.840 --> 0:16:56.120