WEBVTT - Penn Jillette and David Blaine - Summer Staff Picks 0:00:02.360 --> 0:00:05.520 I'm Alec Baldwin and this is Here's the Thing from 0:00:05.600 --> 0:00:09.160 My Heart Radio. I'm Zach McNeice and this is Here's 0:00:09.200 --> 0:00:12.200 the Thing from My Heart Radio. Whizach? Is this one 0:00:12.240 --> 0:00:15.640 of those summer archives shows again? Yeah, I'm hosting the 0:00:15.640 --> 0:00:17.959 show today. For the rest of the summer. Every other week, 0:00:18.120 --> 0:00:20.320 different members of our team are featuring two of their 0:00:20.360 --> 0:00:23.640 favorite interviews from the archives. And who were your guests? Well, 0:00:23.680 --> 0:00:27.160 today we have Penjalalette and David Blaine. Wow, that sounds 0:00:27.160 --> 0:00:32.159 really good. Good luck, Zach, Thanks Alec. I've always been 0:00:32.200 --> 0:00:36.240 fascinated by magicians. It's an intriguing sector of the entertainment 0:00:36.240 --> 0:00:39.320 world that can turn an audience of any age into children, 0:00:39.600 --> 0:00:42.880 eyes wide on the edge of their seats. Today we're 0:00:42.960 --> 0:00:46.720 revisiting interviews with two of my favorite magicians, Penjalalette and 0:00:46.840 --> 0:00:51.600 David Blaine. David Blaine's magic is stunning. Some of my 0:00:51.680 --> 0:00:54.840 favorite performances of his are from his Street Magic series, 0:00:54.960 --> 0:00:57.240 where Blaine walks up to people on the street and 0:00:57.320 --> 0:01:00.960 performs card tricks and other illusions so mes rising. People 0:01:01.000 --> 0:01:04.679 are often left staring in shock, eyes wide, almost in terror, 0:01:04.959 --> 0:01:07.640 wondering how it's possible to have witnessed what they've just 0:01:07.720 --> 0:01:11.160 seen with their own eyes. The other side of the 0:01:11.160 --> 0:01:14.759 world of magic and illusion is the theatrical show. Our 0:01:14.800 --> 0:01:17.840 first guest today, Penjalette, performs as one half of the 0:01:17.840 --> 0:01:21.360 world famous duo Penn and Teller. Together, Penn and Teller 0:01:21.400 --> 0:01:23.560 star in one of the longest running shows in Las 0:01:23.640 --> 0:01:28.160 Vegas history. Penjealette is also a musician, juggler, and inventor. 0:01:28.720 --> 0:01:31.680 A towering figure at six ft six, Gillette is an 0:01:31.680 --> 0:01:36.240 outspoken atheist and libertarian who, perhaps not surprisingly grew up 0:01:36.280 --> 0:01:42.680 in a traditionally religious household. I was raised a Congregationalist Massachusetts, Massachusetts, 0:01:42.720 --> 0:01:45.480 Western mass and I went to church. When I got 0:01:45.520 --> 0:01:49.760 to be uh junior high age, my parents said I 0:01:49.800 --> 0:01:54.160 could go to youth group instead of Sunday morning services. 0:01:54.200 --> 0:01:56.040 I wanted to, and I went to youth group, and 0:01:56.120 --> 0:01:58.360 I believe I was the only one who took it seriously. 0:01:58.840 --> 0:02:01.640 And the ministers boke with us about religion, and I 0:02:01.680 --> 0:02:04.440 read the Bible and then came in with some questions, 0:02:05.760 --> 0:02:10.320 and I had a wonderful, wonderful minister who was very 0:02:10.360 --> 0:02:12.520 open and would talk with me for hours. I did 0:02:12.560 --> 0:02:15.240 this exactly the way the church would want you to 0:02:15.280 --> 0:02:18.560 do it. There was no horrible rebellion, there was no 0:02:18.720 --> 0:02:22.880 fuck you, there was no screaming, there was no being molested. 0:02:23.240 --> 0:02:26.440 I have not one horror story. I've just kind, wonderful, 0:02:26.600 --> 0:02:30.520 sweet people and an intellectual discussion. And I went, you know, 0:02:30.680 --> 0:02:34.800 I don't like the idea of putting God before my family. 0:02:35.200 --> 0:02:37.280 My family is more important to me, and I don't 0:02:37.320 --> 0:02:40.359 like the idea of their being a love greater than 0:02:40.400 --> 0:02:42.760 the love I have from my family and friends. And 0:02:42.800 --> 0:02:46.920 I do believe that humans are good on their own 0:02:46.960 --> 0:02:49.919 without this, and I don't think anything happens after we die. 0:02:50.280 --> 0:02:54.480 And my minister, there's no way to tell this story 0:02:54.480 --> 0:02:56.640 without making him look like a goofball. But he's not 0:02:56.680 --> 0:02:59.080 a goofball. There's a sensible thing he called that. My 0:02:59.120 --> 0:03:01.720 mom and dad had said, you know, Penn is doing 0:03:01.760 --> 0:03:04.560 wonderful in youth group, but we're having discussions, and I 0:03:04.600 --> 0:03:07.320 believe he's doing a better job at converting the other 0:03:07.440 --> 0:03:11.720 children to Atheism than I am with Christianity. So one, 0:03:12.320 --> 0:03:14.280 why don't you just not have him come to youth 0:03:14.280 --> 0:03:18.640 group anymore? And I talked to my my parents and uh, 0:03:18.680 --> 0:03:22.320 my dad till the day he died, prayed for me 0:03:22.760 --> 0:03:26.960 and would say what And he would say to me 0:03:27.440 --> 0:03:30.280 all stuff all the time, like, well, pen, you were 0:03:30.440 --> 0:03:32.840 such a good Christian, I'd say, except for that, not 0:03:32.919 --> 0:03:36.320 accepting Christ than Dad. My dad used to say, and 0:03:36.360 --> 0:03:39.400 this is, you know, just a tribute to My dad 0:03:39.480 --> 0:03:42.760 was the most most wonderful man I've ever met. My 0:03:42.840 --> 0:03:45.280 dad would say to me, I'm going to have to 0:03:45.440 --> 0:03:49.320 work so hard after I die to get you and 0:03:49.360 --> 0:03:51.880 your mother into heaven. But I'm going to do it. 0:03:52.560 --> 0:03:54.920 I just have to work very, very hard. You can 0:03:54.960 --> 0:03:57.640 make it so much easier for me. You have to 0:03:57.720 --> 0:04:00.920 know that my mom and my dad never said hell 0:04:01.160 --> 0:04:04.480 or damn or any absenter hardcore in the house, hardcore, 0:04:04.720 --> 0:04:08.160 no alcohol, no hell there, damn. When I started doing 0:04:08.240 --> 0:04:12.200 card tricks my house, my father was like, you won't 0:04:12.200 --> 0:04:15.000 be gambling though. You can do card tricks, but I 0:04:15.000 --> 0:04:16.840 don't like having a deck of cards in the house. 0:04:16.839 --> 0:04:18.960 I would say, Dad, I'm just doing manipulations and tricks. 0:04:19.080 --> 0:04:22.480 Well that's fine. Now. When people, obviously, when they think 0:04:22.480 --> 0:04:23.680 of you, they think of you as part of a 0:04:23.760 --> 0:04:27.200 tandem and your partner. It's always mystified to me, the 0:04:27.279 --> 0:04:31.640 mute performer, what's that like for him to play that 0:04:31.760 --> 0:04:37.279 role all these years. It's thirty years forty. It's good God, 0:04:37.480 --> 0:04:40.839 and uh, it is a very He never shut up 0:04:40.839 --> 0:04:44.080 when he's homes Well, that's that's the joke. Everybody in 0:04:44.120 --> 0:04:47.080 the crew will tell you. Penn speaks on stage, doesn't 0:04:47.080 --> 0:04:50.000 speak off stage till there, doesn't speak on stage, never 0:04:50.040 --> 0:04:52.520 shuts up when if you were to come to one 0:04:52.560 --> 0:04:55.920 of our repearsals, Uh, it's me sitting over the corner 0:04:55.920 --> 0:04:58.839 reading the paper. And tell they're talking to everybody handling them, 0:04:58.920 --> 0:05:02.880 tell us essentially live via Lucille Ball direct. We can't 0:05:03.040 --> 0:05:05.920 and but you know, tell their direct Shakespeare. You know 0:05:06.040 --> 0:05:10.400 he's he's directing The Tempest in Chicago, a wonderful production 0:05:10.960 --> 0:05:14.760 with real magic in theater. Yeah, but more and more 0:05:14.760 --> 0:05:17.719 directing and more writing. And he's very articulate. Who's a 0:05:17.839 --> 0:05:21.000 high school Latin and Greek teacher, and he is a 0:05:21.040 --> 0:05:23.600 classic scholar. Where does he live where as his home Vegas? 0:05:23.920 --> 0:05:27.600 You guys both live in this about five miles apart. Yeah, 0:05:27.680 --> 0:05:33.159 and you have a theater that your own theater and 0:05:33.360 --> 0:05:35.560 it's really near obligated. The contract is how many months 0:05:35.560 --> 0:05:37.680 of the year until we die? I mean we do. 0:05:38.000 --> 0:05:42.600 How many? We do forty six weeks a year for now, yeah, 0:05:43.600 --> 0:05:47.000 when you if we ever cross, if you ever, we 0:05:47.000 --> 0:05:51.320 don't have time off, and we sometimes do runouts on 0:05:51.400 --> 0:05:53.919 the on the day, on the day, supply six weeks. 0:05:53.920 --> 0:05:56.760 In Vegas. We do about two d and fifty shows 0:05:56.760 --> 0:05:58.919 a year a little more. It's a pretty easy schedule, 0:05:59.000 --> 0:06:00.800 but I make it as hard as possible because I 0:06:00.839 --> 0:06:04.679 play upright bass jazz bebop for an hour before the show, 0:06:04.960 --> 0:06:06.680 and then we meet everybody after the show, So we 0:06:06.760 --> 0:06:10.040 turn a cushy ninety minute gig into three and a half. 0:06:10.279 --> 0:06:14.120 Steve Martin yeah and everything. Yeah, yeah, I do. When 0:06:14.160 --> 0:06:17.360 Steve's in town. I love to talk music with When 0:06:17.400 --> 0:06:20.159 you were a child, I mean I grew up and 0:06:20.680 --> 0:06:26.400 anything magic or anything of the paranormal, if you will, Uri, Geller, 0:06:26.640 --> 0:06:28.360 crest Skin, all those things. I mean, I grew up 0:06:28.680 --> 0:06:31.080 glued to that. I love that. Where you glued to 0:06:31.120 --> 0:06:32.760 that kind of stuff? Where did it come into your life? 0:06:32.800 --> 0:06:38.000 I was. I was horrified by kreskin Um. I believed 0:06:38.120 --> 0:06:40.479 when he went on he went on a television show 0:06:40.760 --> 0:06:43.720 and he did an experiment, as he called it, and 0:06:43.839 --> 0:06:45.880 I believe that this was an area of science. I 0:06:45.920 --> 0:06:48.160 was fascinated by science, an area of science that I 0:06:48.520 --> 0:06:51.039 wanted to study. And my parents, who I said, weren't wealth. 0:06:51.040 --> 0:06:53.679 He bought me was a little ESP game as piece 0:06:53.680 --> 0:06:56.520 of ship with little pendulum in the ESP cards. And 0:06:56.520 --> 0:06:59.000 then I would do that with my parents over and 0:06:59.040 --> 0:07:02.960 over and then um, because I was becoming a juggler 0:07:03.080 --> 0:07:05.760 and practicing all the time in the library. If you 0:07:05.839 --> 0:07:08.200 cast your mind back to the Dewey decimal system, you 0:07:08.279 --> 0:07:13.840 know that the nine hundreds are religion, magic, juggling. They're 0:07:13.880 --> 0:07:15.880 all there together, which is great. My whole life is 0:07:15.920 --> 0:07:19.800 in the nine system. I happened to see a dune 0:07:19.840 --> 0:07:22.800 In jr. Book The Mentalist from the forties. Yeah, he's 0:07:22.840 --> 0:07:26.160 he was the most popular mentalist mind reader. And I 0:07:26.200 --> 0:07:29.400 opened the book on magic and they're in there was 0:07:29.440 --> 0:07:32.600 the description of how to do the trick i'd seen 0:07:32.680 --> 0:07:36.560 Christ can do as an experiment. And that moment in 0:07:36.640 --> 0:07:39.280 the library was a complete breakdown. I mean I went 0:07:39.560 --> 0:07:42.280 I could not believe that a scientist, which is the 0:07:42.280 --> 0:07:45.000 way I perceived it, had lied to me. And I 0:07:45.040 --> 0:07:47.600 went almost humiliated in front of my parents. By the way, 0:07:47.600 --> 0:07:49.320 here's the birth of the bullshit show too. By the way, 0:07:49.360 --> 0:07:52.680 absolutely everything my whole life. And I also pretty much 0:07:52.680 --> 0:07:56.840 at that point went from straight a's to failing because 0:07:56.880 --> 0:08:01.400 I said to my physics teachers and all scientists, lie, 0:08:01.480 --> 0:08:04.160 why am I listening to you scientists? Life scientist? And 0:08:04.200 --> 0:08:07.640 I hated magic, hated magic because why would you be 0:08:07.720 --> 0:08:11.600 fooling people? It's hard enough to figure out about the world. Yeah, 0:08:11.640 --> 0:08:13.640 why why are you doing that? And my parents, you know, 0:08:13.680 --> 0:08:16.240 would try to console me. It's just a stupid little 0:08:16.280 --> 0:08:19.239 game pad. God, Now it's okay. No, No, I'm a juggler. 0:08:19.280 --> 0:08:21.880 I'm not a magician. I'm not all of this. And 0:08:21.920 --> 0:08:23.600 it wasn't until I met Teller, who I met when 0:08:23.640 --> 0:08:25.960 I was in high school. Until they're seven years older 0:08:25.960 --> 0:08:29.800 than me and amazing Randy and may explain to me 0:08:29.880 --> 0:08:33.000 the very simple thing that if you put a proscenium 0:08:33.040 --> 0:08:36.880 around something, it's all of a sudden moral. If Robert 0:08:36.880 --> 0:08:39.880 de Niro runs around New York saying he's Travis Bickle 0:08:39.960 --> 0:08:42.960 and he's a cab driver, he is insane. If he 0:08:43.000 --> 0:08:46.320 does it in a movie, he's a genius. And the 0:08:46.360 --> 0:08:48.720 same thing with magic. If you come to our show, 0:08:49.679 --> 0:08:52.680 all the stuff we do would be immoral. If you 0:08:52.760 --> 0:08:54.959 take that proscenium. So you did a lot on the street. 0:08:55.040 --> 0:08:57.280 You were on the street, yeah, yeah, but but always 0:08:57.280 --> 0:09:00.600 as a juggler, it wasn't. Uh. So we try to 0:09:00.720 --> 0:09:04.200 follow this very strict moral code in the pen and 0:09:04.200 --> 0:09:06.680 tell the show, which is what I call the sawing 0:09:06.960 --> 0:09:09.440 a woman in half code sawing a woman in the half, 0:09:10.000 --> 0:09:14.720 which is we saw a woman in to have haves 0:09:14.760 --> 0:09:17.839 on stage. You see that no one leaves the theater 0:09:17.920 --> 0:09:21.360 thinking they've witnessed a murder. Nobody. That is my rule 0:09:21.440 --> 0:09:24.120 for all magic. If I'm going to do a mind 0:09:24.160 --> 0:09:28.080 reading trick, you cannot leave the theater thinking that I 0:09:28.120 --> 0:09:30.800 can read minds. It must be exactly the same as 0:09:30.800 --> 0:09:33.800 not witnessing a murder. There's a lot of intellectual and 0:09:33.880 --> 0:09:37.840 moral gymnastics that need to be done in order to 0:09:38.000 --> 0:09:40.640 follow that code and tell her and I A big 0:09:40.720 --> 0:09:44.280 part of our writing tricks is trying to be intellectually honest. 0:09:44.440 --> 0:09:47.680 So what is required of the street performer that you 0:09:47.760 --> 0:09:51.120 had the street and they score well, I, you know, 0:09:51.240 --> 0:09:54.640 I uh, with my parents permission, you know, left home 0:09:54.640 --> 0:09:57.920 when I was eighteen and was essentially homeless, hitchhiking around 0:09:57.920 --> 0:10:02.800 the country hippie and I supported myself juggling on streets 0:10:02.960 --> 0:10:07.559 and juggling in bars and uh, you need to uh, 0:10:07.720 --> 0:10:10.560 you need to gather a crowd, and you need to 0:10:10.600 --> 0:10:13.360 collect the money to the bit of a barker, yeah, 0:10:13.760 --> 0:10:16.719 or is it called to the carny talker? Um? I 0:10:16.800 --> 0:10:19.719 was a really really good street performers A matter of 0:10:19.760 --> 0:10:23.560 fact teller. I'm not sure how to take this, but 0:10:23.679 --> 0:10:25.679 tell her always says, you know, the best thing you've 0:10:25.720 --> 0:10:27.920 ever done in your career was your twelve bit of 0:10:27.960 --> 0:10:31.280 street art. There was really nothing better than that. Where 0:10:31.360 --> 0:10:33.040 was the money good? What was the place that was like? 0:10:33.280 --> 0:10:35.720 I had a rule that I would only work places 0:10:35.720 --> 0:10:38.559 that it was illegal, because I thought that was sexy. 0:10:38.679 --> 0:10:41.920 And I worked head Out Square in Philadelphia, and uh, 0:10:41.960 --> 0:10:44.880 I knew all the police officers, and the police officers 0:10:44.880 --> 0:10:47.959 would come to my show and say, the second someone 0:10:48.040 --> 0:10:51.800 can convince me that you're begging, i'll arrest you. Until 0:10:51.840 --> 0:10:54.400 then you're doing a show, and I would do. I. 0:10:54.800 --> 0:10:58.319 I was making so much money. I was nineteen years old, 0:10:58.640 --> 0:11:01.280 and I was making so much money street performing. I 0:11:01.320 --> 0:11:03.840 went to an accountant and I said to file tax 0:11:04.000 --> 0:11:05.920 I said, I want to file my taxes on the money. 0:11:05.960 --> 0:11:07.240 I made, and he said what do you do when 0:11:07.240 --> 0:11:09.000 I said, I'm a street juggling and he said, how 0:11:09.080 --> 0:11:11.680 much do you make? And I told him and I said, 0:11:11.679 --> 0:11:15.120 I have you know, I keep records of every hat 0:11:15.200 --> 0:11:16.800 I pass and how much I make, and I have 0:11:16.840 --> 0:11:18.760 it all laid out here, and I have when I 0:11:18.800 --> 0:11:20.600 brought it to the bank and when I did everything. 0:11:21.080 --> 0:11:23.800 And he said, and you're nineteen. I said yeah. And 0:11:23.800 --> 0:11:26.600 he said, if you go to the I R S 0:11:26.960 --> 0:11:30.640 And tell them you made this much money juggling, they 0:11:30.679 --> 0:11:33.319 will arrest you as a drug dealer. They will assume 0:11:33.360 --> 0:11:35.760 you're a drug dealer. And then he said, and oh, 0:11:35.840 --> 0:11:39.920 by the way, I think you're a drug dealer. By 0:11:40.000 --> 0:11:42.600 the way, I don't believe. And I said, well, no, no, 0:11:42.640 --> 0:11:45.640 I'm really making this. He goes, take the money, don't 0:11:45.640 --> 0:11:48.600 put it in the bank, keep it in cash, walk away, 0:11:48.640 --> 0:11:50.800 and when does that change? Meaning then you're doing that? 0:11:51.120 --> 0:11:53.400 And then I put all that money. Well, first of all, 0:11:54.120 --> 0:11:56.800 totally ruined my voice because I'd work for five people 0:11:57.120 --> 0:12:02.320 outside no training, just scream and put put chlorosceptic in 0:12:02.360 --> 0:12:05.040 a coke can and just go. Or is your costume 0:12:05.080 --> 0:12:09.839 to oh yeah? My rule on street performing was you 0:12:09.920 --> 0:12:12.800 have to look so that people are embarrassed to give 0:12:12.840 --> 0:12:16.800 you less than a twenty. I wore a three thousand 0:12:16.880 --> 0:12:20.120 dollar watch when I Street performed, I wore a really 0:12:20.200 --> 0:12:25.080 expensive suit, really expensive pants. Was perfectly groomed, much more 0:12:25.160 --> 0:12:27.559 than what I was, like Michael Douglas, than the artful Dodge. 0:12:27.760 --> 0:12:30.920 Absolutely absolutely. My idea was, I want to make as 0:12:31.000 --> 0:12:33.920 much money as Johnny Carson, so I'll be out there 0:12:33.960 --> 0:12:36.720 looking like Johnny Carson. So the idea was I would 0:12:36.760 --> 0:12:39.280 gather a crowd and you come up and go, man, 0:12:39.640 --> 0:12:42.560 he's really funny. He's really a good juggler. You'd be 0:12:42.600 --> 0:12:45.600 with your date and go, I can't give him fifty cents. 0:12:46.200 --> 0:12:50.320 I got a twenty up. You can't do that. And uh. 0:12:50.360 --> 0:12:53.960 And then Teller would alternate with me in the same spot, 0:12:54.000 --> 0:12:57.280 which we kind of owned, and the um, the local 0:12:57.679 --> 0:13:02.520 hoodlum children, UH loved us because what I would do is, I, 0:13:02.679 --> 0:13:04.640 you know, have them take care of my money and 0:13:04.640 --> 0:13:06.280 buy props from me and take care of that kind 0:13:06.280 --> 0:13:08.880 of stuff. Trusted them. So anybody else that came in 0:13:08.880 --> 0:13:11.800 to take that spot, the police arrested them and the 0:13:11.800 --> 0:13:14.120 local kids are asked them. So we had that spot 0:13:14.160 --> 0:13:16.760 to ourselves, and I would go to all the store 0:13:16.800 --> 0:13:19.160 owners that are around there. I would go up after 0:13:19.240 --> 0:13:21.760 every show and say, you're getting enough traffic in and out. 0:13:21.800 --> 0:13:25.040 I'm not blocking. Everything's okay. The police officers liked us. 0:13:25.040 --> 0:13:27.600 He join the Chamber of Commerce, Yes, pretty much, and 0:13:27.840 --> 0:13:30.160 we did that very well. Then then I really got 0:13:30.200 --> 0:13:33.480 interested in doing uh Tell, and I wanted to do 0:13:33.520 --> 0:13:37.120 a full evening show. We thought that the ideas that 0:13:37.200 --> 0:13:39.679 we had were more than just the twelve minutes. So 0:13:39.840 --> 0:13:42.800 we took all the money that we've made street performing 0:13:43.000 --> 0:13:46.520 and put it into buying lights and sound and and producing. 0:13:48.800 --> 0:13:52.280 Our very first shows were at the Walnut Street Theater. 0:13:52.559 --> 0:13:55.640 They had a space that would seat like seventy people 0:13:56.200 --> 0:13:58.600 and they had put that aside with a grant for 0:13:58.679 --> 0:14:05.560 experimental theater, and the experimental Theater company uh could not 0:14:05.679 --> 0:14:08.199 get it together in three months to put an experimental 0:14:08.200 --> 0:14:10.840 show on. Now you know, they couldn't in three months 0:14:10.920 --> 0:14:13.120 get it together. So they came to Teller they gone 0:14:13.160 --> 0:14:15.800 to college with, and said, you're doing your little show, 0:14:16.080 --> 0:14:18.720 can you just put it in and we'll let you 0:14:18.760 --> 0:14:21.920 have the theater for free. Now they were getting grants, 0:14:22.320 --> 0:14:24.880 we could have the theater for free. So we put 0:14:25.000 --> 0:14:28.800 the show up and we charged whatever it was ten dollars, 0:14:28.840 --> 0:14:31.480 and we got wonderful reviews and put the place up 0:14:32.000 --> 0:14:34.760 and then the uh the head of the Walnut Street 0:14:34.800 --> 0:14:38.600 theater called us in and said, uh, so the theater 0:14:38.680 --> 0:14:41.720 company up there, they gave you the they gave you 0:14:41.720 --> 0:14:43.280 the space, and how much money they give you to 0:14:43.280 --> 0:14:44.760 put this on? We said nothing. They just gave us 0:14:44.760 --> 0:14:46.800 a space, which is a big help man, huge help, 0:14:46.880 --> 0:14:48.560 not to pay rent. We can really make money on this. 0:14:48.600 --> 0:14:51.600 We're supporting ourselves. This is trip we're getting going. He goes, yeah, yeah, 0:14:51.680 --> 0:14:54.160 And they were paid money to put a show on 0:14:54.280 --> 0:14:56.200 in there, and they just give to your free. So 0:14:56.400 --> 0:14:58.600 you guys are welcome to use the theater whenever you want. 0:14:58.680 --> 0:15:02.560 And they're losing all their grants. So we became we 0:15:02.640 --> 0:15:06.320 became the people that killed killed the experimental theater in 0:15:06.360 --> 0:15:08.360 that particular. And they were like, what did you do 0:15:08.440 --> 0:15:10.040 to us? We said we didn't even we didn't know. 0:15:10.440 --> 0:15:12.800 We were supposed to lie. We could have said we 0:15:12.840 --> 0:15:14.720 can't make money in there, but as it turned out, 0:15:15.040 --> 0:15:17.040 we could make money, you know, and in a hundred 0:15:17.040 --> 0:15:19.800 seed theater, we we could fill it up and make 0:15:19.840 --> 0:15:22.560 money doing nhows a week. Um, so you you you 0:15:22.680 --> 0:15:24.880 perform inside and you start to do the show. And 0:15:24.880 --> 0:15:26.400 what kind of a show was it back then? Well, 0:15:26.440 --> 0:15:28.200 we did. We was a three person show. Then we 0:15:28.240 --> 0:15:30.280 had a we had a third partner who did classical music, 0:15:30.640 --> 0:15:34.120 and it was called the Asparagus Valley Cultural Society, and uh, 0:15:34.280 --> 0:15:38.960 we got we did a thing that was so nuts. 0:15:40.000 --> 0:15:42.240 Teller was in charge of the putting the ads together 0:15:42.280 --> 0:15:44.360 and putting them in the paper, and I was in 0:15:44.480 --> 0:15:47.440 charge of getting critics to the show. So I just 0:15:47.560 --> 0:15:49.760 put on my leather jacket and went, you know, to 0:15:49.800 --> 0:15:52.000 the list of people that were critics, and walked up 0:15:52.000 --> 0:15:54.240 to their desks and said, Hi, I'm Penn. We're doing 0:15:54.240 --> 0:15:56.400 a show next Friday. We can give you free tickets. 0:15:56.600 --> 0:15:59.280 Would you come and review our show? To the you know, 0:15:59.320 --> 0:16:03.240 to the head critic, the Philadelphia Inquirer, who went, what 0:16:03.280 --> 0:16:06.120 are you doing here? No, you go through your press 0:16:06.160 --> 0:16:07.800 agent and do this, and he said, why should I 0:16:07.840 --> 0:16:09.680 come see your show? And I went, because I can 0:16:09.720 --> 0:16:11.920 do this. And I picked up his little spindle that 0:16:11.960 --> 0:16:14.120 he put papers on and rammed it in my head 0:16:14.120 --> 0:16:15.680 and jammed it in my nose. Doing a thing called 0:16:15.680 --> 0:16:18.560 blockhead and old Carney trick and you know. And then 0:16:18.560 --> 0:16:20.240 he took out a cigarette lighter and did a little 0:16:20.240 --> 0:16:22.600 bit of fire eating stuff and said, come to our show. 0:16:23.040 --> 0:16:26.840 And he was not supposed to review little shows. He 0:16:26.920 --> 0:16:29.120 was the big critic, but he came to see our show. 0:16:29.640 --> 0:16:34.440 And then he wrote a rave review and which piste 0:16:34.480 --> 0:16:37.880 off everybody because other big shows are opening. And then 0:16:37.880 --> 0:16:40.480 Teller said you have to call him up and thank them. 0:16:40.800 --> 0:16:43.520 So I said, okay, So I called him up and said, 0:16:43.880 --> 0:16:46.000 thank you for your review. It's gonna sell a lot 0:16:46.000 --> 0:16:47.840 of tickets. We're doing really well. And he said did 0:16:47.880 --> 0:16:49.680 you like the review? And I said, well, it's gonna 0:16:49.680 --> 0:16:51.720 sell a lot of tickets. It's gonna do really well. 0:16:51.840 --> 0:16:53.800 And he goes, wait a minute, did you like Did 0:16:53.880 --> 0:16:57.480 you like the review? I said, well, it's selling a 0:16:57.560 --> 0:16:59.800 lot of tickets and I appreciate it. Thank you very much, sir. 0:17:00.120 --> 0:17:02.960 And he said, what are you saying. I'm saying it's awful. 0:17:03.200 --> 0:17:05.359 You don't understand the thing we were doing. It's all 0:17:05.440 --> 0:17:08.119 you say kind stuff about us. But I did this 0:17:08.200 --> 0:17:10.680 show so someone would understand it. You missed the point 0:17:10.680 --> 0:17:15.000 of everything I was saying. It broke my heart. And 0:17:15.000 --> 0:17:18.280 there was a long pause and he said, uh, can 0:17:18.359 --> 0:17:21.160 I do an interview with you for like a few 0:17:21.200 --> 0:17:24.200 hours and then I will write another review. I'll see 0:17:24.200 --> 0:17:27.639 the show again. And I said sure. I told tell her, 0:17:28.040 --> 0:17:29.840 just tell us to just take up. I said, yeah, hey, 0:17:29.960 --> 0:17:32.439 I told him his review sucked. Tell us what are 0:17:32.480 --> 0:17:37.080 you doing? And he, uh, two weeks later wrote another 0:17:37.600 --> 0:17:42.480 bigger review that said more, this is a retraction of 0:17:42.560 --> 0:17:46.760 my previous review. I said they were wonderful, and they are, 0:17:47.000 --> 0:17:50.040 but everything else I said was wrong. And then he 0:17:50.080 --> 0:17:52.160 went in to wrote a whole other review. So now 0:17:52.920 --> 0:17:55.960 we've got a hundred seat theater that have had two 0:17:56.080 --> 0:18:00.440 front page of the Entertainment Section reviews within two weeks. 0:18:00.800 --> 0:18:02.760 So all of a sudden, we're selling ticket was sold, 0:18:02.760 --> 0:18:05.160 not you know, hundred seats. You know, selling a hundred 0:18:05.160 --> 0:18:07.440 seats is not that hard, but it was huge to us. 0:18:07.840 --> 0:18:09.880 And then a producer sauce there, and we went out 0:18:09.880 --> 0:18:13.399 and played in San Francisco for three years at a 0:18:13.440 --> 0:18:16.960 theater there there was a hundreds or something. I remember 0:18:16.960 --> 0:18:20.520 reading an article once about because I'm thinking about Vegas 0:18:20.600 --> 0:18:23.000 and what I know about Vegas acts, and I've been 0:18:23.040 --> 0:18:24.800 to Vegas, a few times, but not not a lot. 0:18:24.840 --> 0:18:30.120 I'm not a gambler. I go see shows, I don't, 0:18:30.160 --> 0:18:32.119 I don't, I never, I never get dug gamble. With 0:18:32.200 --> 0:18:35.879 your background, it seems like I always I would go 0:18:36.160 --> 0:18:38.960 and people would gamble, I think, and I lost, and 0:18:38.960 --> 0:18:41.359 I thought, I I can't afford this money to throw it. 0:18:41.480 --> 0:18:43.080 And I'd see guys who do that. I mean, I 0:18:43.080 --> 0:18:44.760 don't want to name names, but I got some pretty 0:18:45.200 --> 0:18:46.919 high end friends of mine who really blow a lot 0:18:46.960 --> 0:18:48.399 of dought on that. I go, God, how do you 0:18:48.480 --> 0:18:50.760 do that? And it's so irresponsible. So many other ways 0:18:50.800 --> 0:18:53.600 to waste money, yeah, exactly, like like boats. I was 0:18:53.600 --> 0:18:56.840 like that as worse than gambling. It's so because you 0:18:56.880 --> 0:18:59.439 can drown. But I was reading this article once, this 0:18:59.480 --> 0:19:02.280 wonderful old article about Wayne Newton, and they said, how 0:19:02.920 --> 0:19:05.040 uh you know. The big punch line was that the 0:19:05.080 --> 0:19:07.720 guy goes and he and he takes with a stop 0:19:07.720 --> 0:19:09.639 watch the measure of the show, and Newton would come 0:19:09.640 --> 0:19:12.000 out for the encore and say, hey, you know we 0:19:12.000 --> 0:19:13.840 we never do this. I never do this, but I 0:19:13.880 --> 0:19:16.080 just love this crowd. I never played this song, but 0:19:16.160 --> 0:19:18.560 you know, I'm just gonna throw all my my, my 0:19:18.560 --> 0:19:20.720 my preferences to the wind here and he comes and 0:19:21.280 --> 0:19:23.439 we never stayed for another song. I'm gonna do one 0:19:23.440 --> 0:19:25.760 more song and he just teases the oar and the 0:19:25.800 --> 0:19:28.920 guy and every show the show exactly and exactly the same. 0:19:29.600 --> 0:19:32.920 The show was exactly like one hour and fourteen minutes. 0:19:33.359 --> 0:19:35.720 You've never seen way Newton show that it was. It 0:19:35.800 --> 0:19:38.639 was just great. So it was phenomenal. Yeah, probably still is. 0:19:38.680 --> 0:19:39.920 I haven't seen it in a few of the idea 0:19:40.000 --> 0:19:41.840 of the show being for the man who you and 0:19:41.880 --> 0:19:45.119 your partner do two and fifty shows a year, regardless 0:19:45.160 --> 0:19:46.760 of the fact that it's in your own space and 0:19:46.800 --> 0:19:48.760 you know it's it's obviously it's a very lucrative thing. 0:19:49.280 --> 0:19:51.840 Is like, do you go out there and there's a 0:19:51.880 --> 0:19:54.960 menu like a playlist? We do? We do the same show? 0:19:55.000 --> 0:19:57.639 You do the same show. Now we're always writing new stuff. 0:19:57.720 --> 0:19:59.920 So I say the same show, it's the same show 0:20:00.119 --> 0:20:03.920 the night before, not the same show as the year before. Um, 0:20:03.960 --> 0:20:06.119 and I love that. You know, there's this thing that 0:20:06.240 --> 0:20:11.080 happens um in the variety arts. You know, I'm just 0:20:11.359 --> 0:20:14.920 old enough, I'm sixty, you're a yes, I am, I am, 0:20:14.920 --> 0:20:20.040 I'm a I am a crowd. Man, Um, I'm sixty. 0:20:20.680 --> 0:20:25.959 So when I was learning to juggle at fifteen, sixteen seventeen, 0:20:26.320 --> 0:20:30.520 I could just meet the guys who worked vaudeville their 0:20:30.560 --> 0:20:33.800 whole life, right, I could just meet the guys who 0:20:33.840 --> 0:20:37.199 wrote a show when they were seventeen years old and 0:20:37.240 --> 0:20:40.200 we're doing it when they were eighty and hadn't changed 0:20:40.200 --> 0:20:44.840