1 00:00:02,360 --> 00:00:05,520 Speaker 1: I'm Alec Baldwin and this is Here's the Thing from 2 00:00:05,600 --> 00:00:09,160 Speaker 1: My Heart Radio. I'm Zach McNeice and this is Here's 3 00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:12,200 Speaker 1: the Thing from My Heart Radio. Whizach? Is this one 4 00:00:12,240 --> 00:00:15,640 Speaker 1: of those summer archives shows again? Yeah, I'm hosting the 5 00:00:15,640 --> 00:00:17,959 Speaker 1: show today. For the rest of the summer. Every other week, 6 00:00:18,120 --> 00:00:20,320 Speaker 1: different members of our team are featuring two of their 7 00:00:20,360 --> 00:00:23,640 Speaker 1: favorite interviews from the archives. And who were your guests? Well, 8 00:00:23,680 --> 00:00:27,160 Speaker 1: today we have Penjalalette and David Blaine. Wow, that sounds 9 00:00:27,160 --> 00:00:32,159 Speaker 1: really good. Good luck, Zach, Thanks Alec. I've always been 10 00:00:32,200 --> 00:00:36,240 Speaker 1: fascinated by magicians. It's an intriguing sector of the entertainment 11 00:00:36,240 --> 00:00:39,320 Speaker 1: world that can turn an audience of any age into children, 12 00:00:39,600 --> 00:00:42,880 Speaker 1: eyes wide on the edge of their seats. Today we're 13 00:00:42,960 --> 00:00:46,720 Speaker 1: revisiting interviews with two of my favorite magicians, Penjalalette and 14 00:00:46,840 --> 00:00:51,600 Speaker 1: David Blaine. David Blaine's magic is stunning. Some of my 15 00:00:51,680 --> 00:00:54,840 Speaker 1: favorite performances of his are from his Street Magic series, 16 00:00:54,960 --> 00:00:57,240 Speaker 1: where Blaine walks up to people on the street and 17 00:00:57,320 --> 00:01:00,960 Speaker 1: performs card tricks and other illusions so mes rising. People 18 00:01:01,000 --> 00:01:04,679 Speaker 1: are often left staring in shock, eyes wide, almost in terror, 19 00:01:04,959 --> 00:01:07,640 Speaker 1: wondering how it's possible to have witnessed what they've just 20 00:01:07,720 --> 00:01:11,160 Speaker 1: seen with their own eyes. The other side of the 21 00:01:11,160 --> 00:01:14,759 Speaker 1: world of magic and illusion is the theatrical show. Our 22 00:01:14,800 --> 00:01:17,840 Speaker 1: first guest today, Penjalette, performs as one half of the 23 00:01:17,840 --> 00:01:21,360 Speaker 1: world famous duo Penn and Teller. Together, Penn and Teller 24 00:01:21,400 --> 00:01:23,560 Speaker 1: star in one of the longest running shows in Las 25 00:01:23,640 --> 00:01:28,160 Speaker 1: Vegas history. Penjealette is also a musician, juggler, and inventor. 26 00:01:28,720 --> 00:01:31,680 Speaker 1: A towering figure at six ft six, Gillette is an 27 00:01:31,680 --> 00:01:36,240 Speaker 1: outspoken atheist and libertarian who, perhaps not surprisingly grew up 28 00:01:36,280 --> 00:01:42,680 Speaker 1: in a traditionally religious household. I was raised a Congregationalist Massachusetts, Massachusetts, 29 00:01:42,720 --> 00:01:45,480 Speaker 1: Western mass and I went to church. When I got 30 00:01:45,520 --> 00:01:49,760 Speaker 1: to be uh junior high age, my parents said I 31 00:01:49,800 --> 00:01:54,160 Speaker 1: could go to youth group instead of Sunday morning services. 32 00:01:54,200 --> 00:01:56,040 Speaker 1: I wanted to, and I went to youth group, and 33 00:01:56,120 --> 00:01:58,360 Speaker 1: I believe I was the only one who took it seriously. 34 00:01:58,840 --> 00:02:01,640 Speaker 1: And the ministers boke with us about religion, and I 35 00:02:01,680 --> 00:02:04,440 Speaker 1: read the Bible and then came in with some questions, 36 00:02:05,760 --> 00:02:10,320 Speaker 1: and I had a wonderful, wonderful minister who was very 37 00:02:10,360 --> 00:02:12,520 Speaker 1: open and would talk with me for hours. I did 38 00:02:12,560 --> 00:02:15,240 Speaker 1: this exactly the way the church would want you to 39 00:02:15,280 --> 00:02:18,560 Speaker 1: do it. There was no horrible rebellion, there was no 40 00:02:18,720 --> 00:02:22,880 Speaker 1: fuck you, there was no screaming, there was no being molested. 41 00:02:23,240 --> 00:02:26,440 Speaker 1: I have not one horror story. I've just kind, wonderful, 42 00:02:26,600 --> 00:02:30,520 Speaker 1: sweet people and an intellectual discussion. And I went, you know, 43 00:02:30,680 --> 00:02:34,800 Speaker 1: I don't like the idea of putting God before my family. 44 00:02:35,200 --> 00:02:37,280 Speaker 1: My family is more important to me, and I don't 45 00:02:37,320 --> 00:02:40,359 Speaker 1: like the idea of their being a love greater than 46 00:02:40,400 --> 00:02:42,760 Speaker 1: the love I have from my family and friends. And 47 00:02:42,800 --> 00:02:46,920 Speaker 1: I do believe that humans are good on their own 48 00:02:46,960 --> 00:02:49,919 Speaker 1: without this, and I don't think anything happens after we die. 49 00:02:50,280 --> 00:02:54,480 Speaker 1: And my minister, there's no way to tell this story 50 00:02:54,480 --> 00:02:56,640 Speaker 1: without making him look like a goofball. But he's not 51 00:02:56,680 --> 00:02:59,080 Speaker 1: a goofball. There's a sensible thing he called that. My 52 00:02:59,120 --> 00:03:01,720 Speaker 1: mom and dad had said, you know, Penn is doing 53 00:03:01,760 --> 00:03:04,560 Speaker 1: wonderful in youth group, but we're having discussions, and I 54 00:03:04,600 --> 00:03:07,320 Speaker 1: believe he's doing a better job at converting the other 55 00:03:07,440 --> 00:03:11,720 Speaker 1: children to Atheism than I am with Christianity. So one, 56 00:03:12,320 --> 00:03:14,280 Speaker 1: why don't you just not have him come to youth 57 00:03:14,280 --> 00:03:18,640 Speaker 1: group anymore? And I talked to my my parents and uh, 58 00:03:18,680 --> 00:03:22,320 Speaker 1: my dad till the day he died, prayed for me 59 00:03:22,760 --> 00:03:26,960 Speaker 1: and would say what And he would say to me 60 00:03:27,440 --> 00:03:30,280 Speaker 1: all stuff all the time, like, well, pen, you were 61 00:03:30,440 --> 00:03:32,840 Speaker 1: such a good Christian, I'd say, except for that, not 62 00:03:32,919 --> 00:03:36,320 Speaker 1: accepting Christ than Dad. My dad used to say, and 63 00:03:36,360 --> 00:03:39,400 Speaker 1: this is, you know, just a tribute to My dad 64 00:03:39,480 --> 00:03:42,760 Speaker 1: was the most most wonderful man I've ever met. My 65 00:03:42,840 --> 00:03:45,280 Speaker 1: dad would say to me, I'm going to have to 66 00:03:45,440 --> 00:03:49,320 Speaker 1: work so hard after I die to get you and 67 00:03:49,360 --> 00:03:51,880 Speaker 1: your mother into heaven. But I'm going to do it. 68 00:03:52,560 --> 00:03:54,920 Speaker 1: I just have to work very, very hard. You can 69 00:03:54,960 --> 00:03:57,640 Speaker 1: make it so much easier for me. You have to 70 00:03:57,720 --> 00:04:00,920 Speaker 1: know that my mom and my dad never said hell 71 00:04:01,160 --> 00:04:04,480 Speaker 1: or damn or any absenter hardcore in the house, hardcore, 72 00:04:04,720 --> 00:04:08,160 Speaker 1: no alcohol, no hell there, damn. When I started doing 73 00:04:08,240 --> 00:04:12,200 Speaker 1: card tricks my house, my father was like, you won't 74 00:04:12,200 --> 00:04:15,000 Speaker 1: be gambling though. You can do card tricks, but I 75 00:04:15,000 --> 00:04:16,840 Speaker 1: don't like having a deck of cards in the house. 76 00:04:16,839 --> 00:04:18,960 Speaker 1: I would say, Dad, I'm just doing manipulations and tricks. 77 00:04:19,080 --> 00:04:22,480 Speaker 1: Well that's fine. Now. When people, obviously, when they think 78 00:04:22,480 --> 00:04:23,680 Speaker 1: of you, they think of you as part of a 79 00:04:23,760 --> 00:04:27,200 Speaker 1: tandem and your partner. It's always mystified to me, the 80 00:04:27,279 --> 00:04:31,640 Speaker 1: mute performer, what's that like for him to play that 81 00:04:31,760 --> 00:04:37,279 Speaker 1: role all these years. It's thirty years forty. It's good God, 82 00:04:37,480 --> 00:04:40,839 Speaker 1: and uh, it is a very He never shut up 83 00:04:40,839 --> 00:04:44,080 Speaker 1: when he's homes Well, that's that's the joke. Everybody in 84 00:04:44,120 --> 00:04:47,080 Speaker 1: the crew will tell you. Penn speaks on stage, doesn't 85 00:04:47,080 --> 00:04:50,000 Speaker 1: speak off stage till there, doesn't speak on stage, never 86 00:04:50,040 --> 00:04:52,520 Speaker 1: shuts up when if you were to come to one 87 00:04:52,560 --> 00:04:55,920 Speaker 1: of our repearsals, Uh, it's me sitting over the corner 88 00:04:55,920 --> 00:04:58,839 Speaker 1: reading the paper. And tell they're talking to everybody handling them, 89 00:04:58,920 --> 00:05:02,880 Speaker 1: tell us essentially live via Lucille Ball direct. We can't 90 00:05:03,040 --> 00:05:05,920 Speaker 1: and but you know, tell their direct Shakespeare. You know 91 00:05:06,040 --> 00:05:10,400 Speaker 1: he's he's directing The Tempest in Chicago, a wonderful production 92 00:05:10,960 --> 00:05:14,760 Speaker 1: with real magic in theater. Yeah, but more and more 93 00:05:14,760 --> 00:05:17,719 Speaker 1: directing and more writing. And he's very articulate. Who's a 94 00:05:17,839 --> 00:05:21,000 Speaker 1: high school Latin and Greek teacher, and he is a 95 00:05:21,040 --> 00:05:23,600 Speaker 1: classic scholar. Where does he live where as his home Vegas? 96 00:05:23,920 --> 00:05:27,600 Speaker 1: You guys both live in this about five miles apart. Yeah, 97 00:05:27,680 --> 00:05:33,159 Speaker 1: and you have a theater that your own theater and 98 00:05:33,360 --> 00:05:35,560 Speaker 1: it's really near obligated. The contract is how many months 99 00:05:35,560 --> 00:05:37,680 Speaker 1: of the year until we die? I mean we do. 100 00:05:38,000 --> 00:05:42,600 Speaker 1: How many? We do forty six weeks a year for now, yeah, 101 00:05:43,600 --> 00:05:47,000 Speaker 1: when you if we ever cross, if you ever, we 102 00:05:47,000 --> 00:05:51,320 Speaker 1: don't have time off, and we sometimes do runouts on 103 00:05:51,400 --> 00:05:53,919 Speaker 1: the on the day, on the day, supply six weeks. 104 00:05:53,920 --> 00:05:56,760 Speaker 1: In Vegas. We do about two d and fifty shows 105 00:05:56,760 --> 00:05:58,919 Speaker 1: a year a little more. It's a pretty easy schedule, 106 00:05:59,000 --> 00:06:00,800 Speaker 1: but I make it as hard as possible because I 107 00:06:00,839 --> 00:06:04,679 Speaker 1: play upright bass jazz bebop for an hour before the show, 108 00:06:04,960 --> 00:06:06,680 Speaker 1: and then we meet everybody after the show, So we 109 00:06:06,760 --> 00:06:10,040 Speaker 1: turn a cushy ninety minute gig into three and a half. 110 00:06:10,279 --> 00:06:14,120 Speaker 1: Steve Martin yeah and everything. Yeah, yeah, I do. When 111 00:06:14,160 --> 00:06:17,360 Speaker 1: Steve's in town. I love to talk music with When 112 00:06:17,400 --> 00:06:20,159 Speaker 1: you were a child, I mean I grew up and 113 00:06:20,680 --> 00:06:26,400 Speaker 1: anything magic or anything of the paranormal, if you will, Uri, Geller, 114 00:06:26,640 --> 00:06:28,360 Speaker 1: crest Skin, all those things. I mean, I grew up 115 00:06:28,680 --> 00:06:31,080 Speaker 1: glued to that. I love that. Where you glued to 116 00:06:31,120 --> 00:06:32,760 Speaker 1: that kind of stuff? Where did it come into your life? 117 00:06:32,800 --> 00:06:38,000 Speaker 1: I was. I was horrified by kreskin Um. I believed 118 00:06:38,120 --> 00:06:40,479 Speaker 1: when he went on he went on a television show 119 00:06:40,760 --> 00:06:43,720 Speaker 1: and he did an experiment, as he called it, and 120 00:06:43,839 --> 00:06:45,880 Speaker 1: I believe that this was an area of science. I 121 00:06:45,920 --> 00:06:48,160 Speaker 1: was fascinated by science, an area of science that I 122 00:06:48,520 --> 00:06:51,039 Speaker 1: wanted to study. And my parents, who I said, weren't wealth. 123 00:06:51,040 --> 00:06:53,679 Speaker 1: He bought me was a little ESP game as piece 124 00:06:53,680 --> 00:06:56,520 Speaker 1: of ship with little pendulum in the ESP cards. And 125 00:06:56,520 --> 00:06:59,000 Speaker 1: then I would do that with my parents over and 126 00:06:59,040 --> 00:07:02,960 Speaker 1: over and then um, because I was becoming a juggler 127 00:07:03,080 --> 00:07:05,760 Speaker 1: and practicing all the time in the library. If you 128 00:07:05,839 --> 00:07:08,200 Speaker 1: cast your mind back to the Dewey decimal system, you 129 00:07:08,279 --> 00:07:13,840 Speaker 1: know that the nine hundreds are religion, magic, juggling. They're 130 00:07:13,880 --> 00:07:15,880 Speaker 1: all there together, which is great. My whole life is 131 00:07:15,920 --> 00:07:19,800 Speaker 1: in the nine system. I happened to see a dune 132 00:07:19,840 --> 00:07:22,800 Speaker 1: In jr. Book The Mentalist from the forties. Yeah, he's 133 00:07:22,840 --> 00:07:26,160 Speaker 1: he was the most popular mentalist mind reader. And I 134 00:07:26,200 --> 00:07:29,400 Speaker 1: opened the book on magic and they're in there was 135 00:07:29,440 --> 00:07:32,600 Speaker 1: the description of how to do the trick i'd seen 136 00:07:32,680 --> 00:07:36,560 Speaker 1: Christ can do as an experiment. And that moment in 137 00:07:36,640 --> 00:07:39,280 Speaker 1: the library was a complete breakdown. I mean I went 138 00:07:39,560 --> 00:07:42,280 Speaker 1: I could not believe that a scientist, which is the 139 00:07:42,280 --> 00:07:45,000 Speaker 1: way I perceived it, had lied to me. And I 140 00:07:45,040 --> 00:07:47,600 Speaker 1: went almost humiliated in front of my parents. By the way, 141 00:07:47,600 --> 00:07:49,320 Speaker 1: here's the birth of the bullshit show too. By the way, 142 00:07:49,360 --> 00:07:52,680 Speaker 1: absolutely everything my whole life. And I also pretty much 143 00:07:52,680 --> 00:07:56,840 Speaker 1: at that point went from straight a's to failing because 144 00:07:56,880 --> 00:08:01,400 Speaker 1: I said to my physics teachers and all scientists, lie, 145 00:08:01,480 --> 00:08:04,160 Speaker 1: why am I listening to you scientists? Life scientist? And 146 00:08:04,200 --> 00:08:07,640 Speaker 1: I hated magic, hated magic because why would you be 147 00:08:07,720 --> 00:08:11,600 Speaker 1: fooling people? It's hard enough to figure out about the world. Yeah, 148 00:08:11,640 --> 00:08:13,640 Speaker 1: why why are you doing that? And my parents, you know, 149 00:08:13,680 --> 00:08:16,240 Speaker 1: would try to console me. It's just a stupid little 150 00:08:16,280 --> 00:08:19,239 Speaker 1: game pad. God, Now it's okay. No, No, I'm a juggler. 151 00:08:19,280 --> 00:08:21,880 Speaker 1: I'm not a magician. I'm not all of this. And 152 00:08:21,920 --> 00:08:23,600 Speaker 1: it wasn't until I met Teller, who I met when 153 00:08:23,640 --> 00:08:25,960 Speaker 1: I was in high school. Until they're seven years older 154 00:08:25,960 --> 00:08:29,800 Speaker 1: than me and amazing Randy and may explain to me 155 00:08:29,880 --> 00:08:33,000 Speaker 1: the very simple thing that if you put a proscenium 156 00:08:33,040 --> 00:08:36,880 Speaker 1: around something, it's all of a sudden moral. If Robert 157 00:08:36,880 --> 00:08:39,880 Speaker 1: de Niro runs around New York saying he's Travis Bickle 158 00:08:39,960 --> 00:08:42,960 Speaker 1: and he's a cab driver, he is insane. If he 159 00:08:43,000 --> 00:08:46,320 Speaker 1: does it in a movie, he's a genius. And the 160 00:08:46,360 --> 00:08:48,720 Speaker 1: same thing with magic. If you come to our show, 161 00:08:49,679 --> 00:08:52,680 Speaker 1: all the stuff we do would be immoral. If you 162 00:08:52,760 --> 00:08:54,959 Speaker 1: take that proscenium. So you did a lot on the street. 163 00:08:55,040 --> 00:08:57,280 Speaker 1: You were on the street, yeah, yeah, but but always 164 00:08:57,280 --> 00:09:00,600 Speaker 1: as a juggler, it wasn't. Uh. So we try to 165 00:09:00,720 --> 00:09:04,200 Speaker 1: follow this very strict moral code in the pen and 166 00:09:04,200 --> 00:09:06,680 Speaker 1: tell the show, which is what I call the sawing 167 00:09:06,960 --> 00:09:09,440 Speaker 1: a woman in half code sawing a woman in the half, 168 00:09:10,000 --> 00:09:14,720 Speaker 1: which is we saw a woman in to have haves 169 00:09:14,760 --> 00:09:17,839 Speaker 1: on stage. You see that no one leaves the theater 170 00:09:17,920 --> 00:09:21,360 Speaker 1: thinking they've witnessed a murder. Nobody. That is my rule 171 00:09:21,440 --> 00:09:24,120 Speaker 1: for all magic. If I'm going to do a mind 172 00:09:24,160 --> 00:09:28,080 Speaker 1: reading trick, you cannot leave the theater thinking that I 173 00:09:28,120 --> 00:09:30,800 Speaker 1: can read minds. It must be exactly the same as 174 00:09:30,800 --> 00:09:33,800 Speaker 1: not witnessing a murder. There's a lot of intellectual and 175 00:09:33,880 --> 00:09:37,840 Speaker 1: moral gymnastics that need to be done in order to 176 00:09:38,000 --> 00:09:40,640 Speaker 1: follow that code and tell her and I A big 177 00:09:40,720 --> 00:09:44,280 Speaker 1: part of our writing tricks is trying to be intellectually honest. 178 00:09:44,440 --> 00:09:47,680 Speaker 1: So what is required of the street performer that you 179 00:09:47,760 --> 00:09:51,120 Speaker 1: had the street and they score well, I, you know, 180 00:09:51,240 --> 00:09:54,640 Speaker 1: I uh, with my parents permission, you know, left home 181 00:09:54,640 --> 00:09:57,920 Speaker 1: when I was eighteen and was essentially homeless, hitchhiking around 182 00:09:57,920 --> 00:10:02,800 Speaker 1: the country hippie and I supported myself juggling on streets 183 00:10:02,960 --> 00:10:07,559 Speaker 1: and juggling in bars and uh, you need to uh, 184 00:10:07,720 --> 00:10:10,560 Speaker 1: you need to gather a crowd, and you need to 185 00:10:10,600 --> 00:10:13,360 Speaker 1: collect the money to the bit of a barker, yeah, 186 00:10:13,760 --> 00:10:16,719 Speaker 1: or is it called to the carny talker? Um? I 187 00:10:16,800 --> 00:10:19,719 Speaker 1: was a really really good street performers A matter of 188 00:10:19,760 --> 00:10:23,560 Speaker 1: fact teller. I'm not sure how to take this, but 189 00:10:23,679 --> 00:10:25,679 Speaker 1: tell her always says, you know, the best thing you've 190 00:10:25,720 --> 00:10:27,920 Speaker 1: ever done in your career was your twelve bit of 191 00:10:27,960 --> 00:10:31,280 Speaker 1: street art. There was really nothing better than that. Where 192 00:10:31,360 --> 00:10:33,040 Speaker 1: was the money good? What was the place that was like? 193 00:10:33,280 --> 00:10:35,720 Speaker 1: I had a rule that I would only work places 194 00:10:35,720 --> 00:10:38,559 Speaker 1: that it was illegal, because I thought that was sexy. 195 00:10:38,679 --> 00:10:41,920 Speaker 1: And I worked head Out Square in Philadelphia, and uh, 196 00:10:41,960 --> 00:10:44,880 Speaker 1: I knew all the police officers, and the police officers 197 00:10:44,880 --> 00:10:47,959 Speaker 1: would come to my show and say, the second someone 198 00:10:48,040 --> 00:10:51,800 Speaker 1: can convince me that you're begging, i'll arrest you. Until 199 00:10:51,840 --> 00:10:54,400 Speaker 1: then you're doing a show, and I would do. I. 200 00:10:54,800 --> 00:10:58,319 Speaker 1: I was making so much money. I was nineteen years old, 201 00:10:58,640 --> 00:11:01,280 Speaker 1: and I was making so much money street performing. I 202 00:11:01,320 --> 00:11:03,840 Speaker 1: went to an accountant and I said to file tax 203 00:11:04,000 --> 00:11:05,920 Speaker 1: I said, I want to file my taxes on the money. 204 00:11:05,960 --> 00:11:07,240 Speaker 1: I made, and he said what do you do when 205 00:11:07,240 --> 00:11:09,000 Speaker 1: I said, I'm a street juggling and he said, how 206 00:11:09,080 --> 00:11:11,680 Speaker 1: much do you make? And I told him and I said, 207 00:11:11,679 --> 00:11:15,120 Speaker 1: I have you know, I keep records of every hat 208 00:11:15,200 --> 00:11:16,800 Speaker 1: I pass and how much I make, and I have 209 00:11:16,840 --> 00:11:18,760 Speaker 1: it all laid out here, and I have when I 210 00:11:18,800 --> 00:11:20,600 Speaker 1: brought it to the bank and when I did everything. 211 00:11:21,080 --> 00:11:23,800 Speaker 1: And he said, and you're nineteen. I said yeah. And 212 00:11:23,800 --> 00:11:26,600 Speaker 1: he said, if you go to the I R S 213 00:11:26,960 --> 00:11:30,640 Speaker 1: And tell them you made this much money juggling, they 214 00:11:30,679 --> 00:11:33,319 Speaker 1: will arrest you as a drug dealer. They will assume 215 00:11:33,360 --> 00:11:35,760 Speaker 1: you're a drug dealer. And then he said, and oh, 216 00:11:35,840 --> 00:11:39,920 Speaker 1: by the way, I think you're a drug dealer. By 217 00:11:40,000 --> 00:11:42,600 Speaker 1: the way, I don't believe. And I said, well, no, no, 218 00:11:42,640 --> 00:11:45,640 Speaker 1: I'm really making this. He goes, take the money, don't 219 00:11:45,640 --> 00:11:48,600 Speaker 1: put it in the bank, keep it in cash, walk away, 220 00:11:48,640 --> 00:11:50,800 Speaker 1: and when does that change? Meaning then you're doing that? 221 00:11:51,120 --> 00:11:53,400 Speaker 1: And then I put all that money. Well, first of all, 222 00:11:54,120 --> 00:11:56,800 Speaker 1: totally ruined my voice because I'd work for five people 223 00:11:57,120 --> 00:12:02,320 Speaker 1: outside no training, just scream and put put chlorosceptic in 224 00:12:02,360 --> 00:12:05,040 Speaker 1: a coke can and just go. Or is your costume 225 00:12:05,080 --> 00:12:09,839 Speaker 1: to oh yeah? My rule on street performing was you 226 00:12:09,920 --> 00:12:12,800 Speaker 1: have to look so that people are embarrassed to give 227 00:12:12,840 --> 00:12:16,800 Speaker 1: you less than a twenty. I wore a three thousand 228 00:12:16,880 --> 00:12:20,120 Speaker 1: dollar watch when I Street performed, I wore a really 229 00:12:20,200 --> 00:12:25,080 Speaker 1: expensive suit, really expensive pants. Was perfectly groomed, much more 230 00:12:25,160 --> 00:12:27,559 Speaker 1: than what I was, like Michael Douglas, than the artful Dodge. 231 00:12:27,760 --> 00:12:30,920 Speaker 1: Absolutely absolutely. My idea was, I want to make as 232 00:12:31,000 --> 00:12:33,920 Speaker 1: much money as Johnny Carson, so I'll be out there 233 00:12:33,960 --> 00:12:36,720 Speaker 1: looking like Johnny Carson. So the idea was I would 234 00:12:36,760 --> 00:12:39,280 Speaker 1: gather a crowd and you come up and go, man, 235 00:12:39,640 --> 00:12:42,560 Speaker 1: he's really funny. He's really a good juggler. You'd be 236 00:12:42,600 --> 00:12:45,600 Speaker 1: with your date and go, I can't give him fifty cents. 237 00:12:46,200 --> 00:12:50,320 Speaker 1: I got a twenty up. You can't do that. And uh. 238 00:12:50,360 --> 00:12:53,960 Speaker 1: And then Teller would alternate with me in the same spot, 239 00:12:54,000 --> 00:12:57,280 Speaker 1: which we kind of owned, and the um, the local 240 00:12:57,679 --> 00:13:02,520 Speaker 1: hoodlum children, UH loved us because what I would do is, I, 241 00:13:02,679 --> 00:13:04,640 Speaker 1: you know, have them take care of my money and 242 00:13:04,640 --> 00:13:06,280 Speaker 1: buy props from me and take care of that kind 243 00:13:06,280 --> 00:13:08,880 Speaker 1: of stuff. Trusted them. So anybody else that came in 244 00:13:08,880 --> 00:13:11,800 Speaker 1: to take that spot, the police arrested them and the 245 00:13:11,800 --> 00:13:14,120 Speaker 1: local kids are asked them. So we had that spot 246 00:13:14,160 --> 00:13:16,760 Speaker 1: to ourselves, and I would go to all the store 247 00:13:16,800 --> 00:13:19,160 Speaker 1: owners that are around there. I would go up after 248 00:13:19,240 --> 00:13:21,760 Speaker 1: every show and say, you're getting enough traffic in and out. 249 00:13:21,800 --> 00:13:25,040 Speaker 1: I'm not blocking. Everything's okay. The police officers liked us. 250 00:13:25,040 --> 00:13:27,600 Speaker 1: He join the Chamber of Commerce, Yes, pretty much, and 251 00:13:27,840 --> 00:13:30,160 Speaker 1: we did that very well. Then then I really got 252 00:13:30,200 --> 00:13:33,480 Speaker 1: interested in doing uh Tell, and I wanted to do 253 00:13:33,520 --> 00:13:37,120 Speaker 1: a full evening show. We thought that the ideas that 254 00:13:37,200 --> 00:13:39,679 Speaker 1: we had were more than just the twelve minutes. So 255 00:13:39,840 --> 00:13:42,800 Speaker 1: we took all the money that we've made street performing 256 00:13:43,000 --> 00:13:46,520 Speaker 1: and put it into buying lights and sound and and producing. 257 00:13:48,800 --> 00:13:52,280 Speaker 1: Our very first shows were at the Walnut Street Theater. 258 00:13:52,559 --> 00:13:55,640 Speaker 1: They had a space that would seat like seventy people 259 00:13:56,200 --> 00:13:58,600 Speaker 1: and they had put that aside with a grant for 260 00:13:58,679 --> 00:14:05,560 Speaker 1: experimental theater, and the experimental Theater company uh could not 261 00:14:05,679 --> 00:14:08,199 Speaker 1: get it together in three months to put an experimental 262 00:14:08,200 --> 00:14:10,840 Speaker 1: show on. Now you know, they couldn't in three months 263 00:14:10,920 --> 00:14:13,120 Speaker 1: get it together. So they came to Teller they gone 264 00:14:13,160 --> 00:14:15,800 Speaker 1: to college with, and said, you're doing your little show, 265 00:14:16,080 --> 00:14:18,720 Speaker 1: can you just put it in and we'll let you 266 00:14:18,760 --> 00:14:21,920 Speaker 1: have the theater for free. Now they were getting grants, 267 00:14:22,320 --> 00:14:24,880 Speaker 1: we could have the theater for free. So we put 268 00:14:25,000 --> 00:14:28,800 Speaker 1: the show up and we charged whatever it was ten dollars, 269 00:14:28,840 --> 00:14:31,480 Speaker 1: and we got wonderful reviews and put the place up 270 00:14:32,000 --> 00:14:34,760 Speaker 1: and then the uh the head of the Walnut Street 271 00:14:34,800 --> 00:14:38,600 Speaker 1: theater called us in and said, uh, so the theater 272 00:14:38,680 --> 00:14:41,720 Speaker 1: company up there, they gave you the they gave you 273 00:14:41,720 --> 00:14:43,280 Speaker 1: the space, and how much money they give you to 274 00:14:43,280 --> 00:14:44,760 Speaker 1: put this on? We said nothing. They just gave us 275 00:14:44,760 --> 00:14:46,800 Speaker 1: a space, which is a big help man, huge help, 276 00:14:46,880 --> 00:14:48,560 Speaker 1: not to pay rent. We can really make money on this. 277 00:14:48,600 --> 00:14:51,600 Speaker 1: We're supporting ourselves. This is trip we're getting going. He goes, yeah, yeah, 278 00:14:51,680 --> 00:14:54,160 Speaker 1: And they were paid money to put a show on 279 00:14:54,280 --> 00:14:56,200 Speaker 1: in there, and they just give to your free. So 280 00:14:56,400 --> 00:14:58,600 Speaker 1: you guys are welcome to use the theater whenever you want. 281 00:14:58,680 --> 00:15:02,560 Speaker 1: And they're losing all their grants. So we became we 282 00:15:02,640 --> 00:15:06,320 Speaker 1: became the people that killed killed the experimental theater in 283 00:15:06,360 --> 00:15:08,360 Speaker 1: that particular. And they were like, what did you do 284 00:15:08,440 --> 00:15:10,040 Speaker 1: to us? We said we didn't even we didn't know. 285 00:15:10,440 --> 00:15:12,800 Speaker 1: We were supposed to lie. We could have said we 286 00:15:12,840 --> 00:15:14,720 Speaker 1: can't make money in there, but as it turned out, 287 00:15:15,040 --> 00:15:17,040 Speaker 1: we could make money, you know, and in a hundred 288 00:15:17,040 --> 00:15:19,800 Speaker 1: seed theater, we we could fill it up and make 289 00:15:19,840 --> 00:15:22,560 Speaker 1: money doing nhows a week. Um, so you you you 290 00:15:22,680 --> 00:15:24,880 Speaker 1: perform inside and you start to do the show. And 291 00:15:24,880 --> 00:15:26,400 Speaker 1: what kind of a show was it back then? Well, 292 00:15:26,440 --> 00:15:28,200 Speaker 1: we did. We was a three person show. Then we 293 00:15:28,240 --> 00:15:30,280 Speaker 1: had a we had a third partner who did classical music, 294 00:15:30,640 --> 00:15:34,120 Speaker 1: and it was called the Asparagus Valley Cultural Society, and uh, 295 00:15:34,280 --> 00:15:38,960 Speaker 1: we got we did a thing that was so nuts. 296 00:15:40,000 --> 00:15:42,240 Speaker 1: Teller was in charge of the putting the ads together 297 00:15:42,280 --> 00:15:44,360 Speaker 1: and putting them in the paper, and I was in 298 00:15:44,480 --> 00:15:47,440 Speaker 1: charge of getting critics to the show. So I just 299 00:15:47,560 --> 00:15:49,760 Speaker 1: put on my leather jacket and went, you know, to 300 00:15:49,800 --> 00:15:52,000 Speaker 1: the list of people that were critics, and walked up 301 00:15:52,000 --> 00:15:54,240 Speaker 1: to their desks and said, Hi, I'm Penn. We're doing 302 00:15:54,240 --> 00:15:56,400 Speaker 1: a show next Friday. We can give you free tickets. 303 00:15:56,600 --> 00:15:59,280 Speaker 1: Would you come and review our show? To the you know, 304 00:15:59,320 --> 00:16:03,240 Speaker 1: to the head critic, the Philadelphia Inquirer, who went, what 305 00:16:03,280 --> 00:16:06,120 Speaker 1: are you doing here? No, you go through your press 306 00:16:06,160 --> 00:16:07,800 Speaker 1: agent and do this, and he said, why should I 307 00:16:07,840 --> 00:16:09,680 Speaker 1: come see your show? And I went, because I can 308 00:16:09,720 --> 00:16:11,920 Speaker 1: do this. And I picked up his little spindle that 309 00:16:11,960 --> 00:16:14,120 Speaker 1: he put papers on and rammed it in my head 310 00:16:14,120 --> 00:16:15,680 Speaker 1: and jammed it in my nose. Doing a thing called 311 00:16:15,680 --> 00:16:18,560 Speaker 1: blockhead and old Carney trick and you know. And then 312 00:16:18,560 --> 00:16:20,240 Speaker 1: he took out a cigarette lighter and did a little 313 00:16:20,240 --> 00:16:22,600 Speaker 1: bit of fire eating stuff and said, come to our show. 314 00:16:23,040 --> 00:16:26,840 Speaker 1: And he was not supposed to review little shows. He 315 00:16:26,920 --> 00:16:29,120 Speaker 1: was the big critic, but he came to see our show. 316 00:16:29,640 --> 00:16:34,440 Speaker 1: And then he wrote a rave review and which piste 317 00:16:34,480 --> 00:16:37,880 Speaker 1: off everybody because other big shows are opening. And then 318 00:16:37,880 --> 00:16:40,480 Speaker 1: Teller said you have to call him up and thank them. 319 00:16:40,800 --> 00:16:43,520 Speaker 1: So I said, okay, So I called him up and said, 320 00:16:43,880 --> 00:16:46,000 Speaker 1: thank you for your review. It's gonna sell a lot 321 00:16:46,000 --> 00:16:47,840 Speaker 1: of tickets. We're doing really well. And he said did 322 00:16:47,880 --> 00:16:49,680 Speaker 1: you like the review? And I said, well, it's gonna 323 00:16:49,680 --> 00:16:51,720 Speaker 1: sell a lot of tickets. It's gonna do really well. 324 00:16:51,840 --> 00:16:53,800 Speaker 1: And he goes, wait a minute, did you like Did 325 00:16:53,880 --> 00:16:57,480 Speaker 1: you like the review? I said, well, it's selling a 326 00:16:57,560 --> 00:16:59,800 Speaker 1: lot of tickets and I appreciate it. Thank you very much, sir. 327 00:17:00,120 --> 00:17:02,960 Speaker 1: And he said, what are you saying. I'm saying it's awful. 328 00:17:03,200 --> 00:17:05,359 Speaker 1: You don't understand the thing we were doing. It's all 329 00:17:05,440 --> 00:17:08,119 Speaker 1: you say kind stuff about us. But I did this 330 00:17:08,200 --> 00:17:10,680 Speaker 1: show so someone would understand it. You missed the point 331 00:17:10,680 --> 00:17:15,000 Speaker 1: of everything I was saying. It broke my heart. And 332 00:17:15,000 --> 00:17:18,280 Speaker 1: there was a long pause and he said, uh, can 333 00:17:18,359 --> 00:17:21,160 Speaker 1: I do an interview with you for like a few 334 00:17:21,200 --> 00:17:24,200 Speaker 1: hours and then I will write another review. I'll see 335 00:17:24,200 --> 00:17:27,639 Speaker 1: the show again. And I said sure. I told tell her, 336 00:17:28,040 --> 00:17:29,840 Speaker 1: just tell us to just take up. I said, yeah, hey, 337 00:17:29,960 --> 00:17:32,439 Speaker 1: I told him his review sucked. Tell us what are 338 00:17:32,480 --> 00:17:37,080 Speaker 1: you doing? And he, uh, two weeks later wrote another 339 00:17:37,600 --> 00:17:42,480 Speaker 1: bigger review that said more, this is a retraction of 340 00:17:42,560 --> 00:17:46,760 Speaker 1: my previous review. I said they were wonderful, and they are, 341 00:17:47,000 --> 00:17:50,040 Speaker 1: but everything else I said was wrong. And then he 342 00:17:50,080 --> 00:17:52,160 Speaker 1: went in to wrote a whole other review. So now 343 00:17:52,920 --> 00:17:55,960 Speaker 1: we've got a hundred seat theater that have had two 344 00:17:56,080 --> 00:18:00,440 Speaker 1: front page of the Entertainment Section reviews within two weeks. 345 00:18:00,800 --> 00:18:02,760 Speaker 1: So all of a sudden, we're selling ticket was sold, 346 00:18:02,760 --> 00:18:05,160 Speaker 1: not you know, hundred seats. You know, selling a hundred 347 00:18:05,160 --> 00:18:07,440 Speaker 1: seats is not that hard, but it was huge to us. 348 00:18:07,840 --> 00:18:09,880 Speaker 1: And then a producer sauce there, and we went out 349 00:18:09,880 --> 00:18:13,399 Speaker 1: and played in San Francisco for three years at a 350 00:18:13,440 --> 00:18:16,960 Speaker 1: theater there there was a hundreds or something. I remember 351 00:18:16,960 --> 00:18:20,520 Speaker 1: reading an article once about because I'm thinking about Vegas 352 00:18:20,600 --> 00:18:23,000 Speaker 1: and what I know about Vegas acts, and I've been 353 00:18:23,040 --> 00:18:24,800 Speaker 1: to Vegas, a few times, but not not a lot. 354 00:18:24,840 --> 00:18:30,120 Speaker 1: I'm not a gambler. I go see shows, I don't, 355 00:18:30,160 --> 00:18:32,119 Speaker 1: I don't, I never, I never get dug gamble. With 356 00:18:32,200 --> 00:18:35,879 Speaker 1: your background, it seems like I always I would go 357 00:18:36,160 --> 00:18:38,960 Speaker 1: and people would gamble, I think, and I lost, and 358 00:18:38,960 --> 00:18:41,359 Speaker 1: I thought, I I can't afford this money to throw it. 359 00:18:41,480 --> 00:18:43,080 Speaker 1: And I'd see guys who do that. I mean, I 360 00:18:43,080 --> 00:18:44,760 Speaker 1: don't want to name names, but I got some pretty 361 00:18:45,200 --> 00:18:46,919 Speaker 1: high end friends of mine who really blow a lot 362 00:18:46,960 --> 00:18:48,399 Speaker 1: of dought on that. I go, God, how do you 363 00:18:48,480 --> 00:18:50,760 Speaker 1: do that? And it's so irresponsible. So many other ways 364 00:18:50,800 --> 00:18:53,600 Speaker 1: to waste money, yeah, exactly, like like boats. I was 365 00:18:53,600 --> 00:18:56,840 Speaker 1: like that as worse than gambling. It's so because you 366 00:18:56,880 --> 00:18:59,439 Speaker 1: can drown. But I was reading this article once, this 367 00:18:59,480 --> 00:19:02,280 Speaker 1: wonderful old article about Wayne Newton, and they said, how 368 00:19:02,920 --> 00:19:05,040 Speaker 1: uh you know. The big punch line was that the 369 00:19:05,080 --> 00:19:07,720 Speaker 1: guy goes and he and he takes with a stop 370 00:19:07,720 --> 00:19:09,639 Speaker 1: watch the measure of the show, and Newton would come 371 00:19:09,640 --> 00:19:12,000 Speaker 1: out for the encore and say, hey, you know we 372 00:19:12,000 --> 00:19:13,840 Speaker 1: we never do this. I never do this, but I 373 00:19:13,880 --> 00:19:16,080 Speaker 1: just love this crowd. I never played this song, but 374 00:19:16,160 --> 00:19:18,560 Speaker 1: you know, I'm just gonna throw all my my, my 375 00:19:18,560 --> 00:19:20,720 Speaker 1: my preferences to the wind here and he comes and 376 00:19:21,280 --> 00:19:23,439 Speaker 1: we never stayed for another song. I'm gonna do one 377 00:19:23,440 --> 00:19:25,760 Speaker 1: more song and he just teases the oar and the 378 00:19:25,800 --> 00:19:28,920 Speaker 1: guy and every show the show exactly and exactly the same. 379 00:19:29,600 --> 00:19:32,920 Speaker 1: The show was exactly like one hour and fourteen minutes. 380 00:19:33,359 --> 00:19:35,720 Speaker 1: You've never seen way Newton show that it was. It 381 00:19:35,800 --> 00:19:38,639 Speaker 1: was just great. So it was phenomenal. Yeah, probably still is. 382 00:19:38,680 --> 00:19:39,920 Speaker 1: I haven't seen it in a few of the idea 383 00:19:40,000 --> 00:19:41,840 Speaker 1: of the show being for the man who you and 384 00:19:41,880 --> 00:19:45,119 Speaker 1: your partner do two and fifty shows a year, regardless 385 00:19:45,160 --> 00:19:46,760 Speaker 1: of the fact that it's in your own space and 386 00:19:46,800 --> 00:19:48,760 Speaker 1: you know it's it's obviously it's a very lucrative thing. 387 00:19:49,280 --> 00:19:51,840 Speaker 1: Is like, do you go out there and there's a 388 00:19:51,880 --> 00:19:54,960 Speaker 1: menu like a playlist? We do? We do the same show? 389 00:19:55,000 --> 00:19:57,639 Speaker 1: You do the same show. Now we're always writing new stuff. 390 00:19:57,720 --> 00:19:59,920 Speaker 1: So I say the same show, it's the same show 391 00:20:00,119 --> 00:20:03,920 Speaker 1: the night before, not the same show as the year before. Um, 392 00:20:03,960 --> 00:20:06,119 Speaker 1: and I love that. You know, there's this thing that 393 00:20:06,240 --> 00:20:11,080 Speaker 1: happens um in the variety arts. You know, I'm just 394 00:20:11,359 --> 00:20:14,920 Speaker 1: old enough, I'm sixty, you're a yes, I am, I am, 395 00:20:14,920 --> 00:20:20,040 Speaker 1: I'm a I am a crowd. Man, Um, I'm sixty. 396 00:20:20,680 --> 00:20:25,959 Speaker 1: So when I was learning to juggle at fifteen, sixteen seventeen, 397 00:20:26,320 --> 00:20:30,520 Speaker 1: I could just meet the guys who worked vaudeville their 398 00:20:30,560 --> 00:20:33,800 Speaker 1: whole life, right, I could just meet the guys who 399 00:20:33,840 --> 00:20:37,199 Speaker 1: wrote a show when they were seventeen years old and 400 00:20:37,240 --> 00:20:40,200 Speaker 1: we're doing it when they were eighty and hadn't changed 401 00:20:40,200 --> 00:20:44,840 Speaker 1: in it. And yeah, but there were guys jugglers, you know, 402 00:20:44,880 --> 00:20:48,040 Speaker 1: because juggling it's not like music. You can't do a 403 00:20:48,160 --> 00:20:50,480 Speaker 1: whole different routine with juggling. You learned that trick. It 404 00:20:50,520 --> 00:20:53,000 Speaker 1: takes it six years to learn the trick. That's the 405 00:20:53,040 --> 00:20:54,760 Speaker 1: trick you're gonna be doing for a while. You know. 406 00:20:55,080 --> 00:20:56,680 Speaker 1: You know how to throw a cigarette behind your back, 407 00:20:56,720 --> 00:20:59,280 Speaker 1: catching your mouth and throw a match catching then light them. 408 00:20:59,320 --> 00:21:01,000 Speaker 1: That's what you're gonna do. That's your closer for the 409 00:21:01,000 --> 00:21:04,040 Speaker 1: rest of your life. And there's something you're able to 410 00:21:04,119 --> 00:21:09,159 Speaker 1: do after doing something ten thousand times, not a thousand, 411 00:21:09,800 --> 00:21:13,240 Speaker 1: ten thousand times, where you're able to communicate with the 412 00:21:13,280 --> 00:21:16,720 Speaker 1: audience in ways that you don't even know what's giving 413 00:21:16,720 --> 00:21:19,560 Speaker 1: them the information. When you first do a gag. You know, 414 00:21:19,760 --> 00:21:21,440 Speaker 1: one of the things you see on Saturday Night Live 415 00:21:21,680 --> 00:21:24,320 Speaker 1: you know, I always want to say, boy, I'd like 416 00:21:24,400 --> 00:21:26,879 Speaker 1: to see this sketch after they did a ten thousand times. 417 00:21:27,200 --> 00:21:30,240 Speaker 1: As Bob Dildan said, I want to play guitar without tricks. 418 00:21:30,600 --> 00:21:32,280 Speaker 1: You know, all the tricks should be gone and it 419 00:21:32,280 --> 00:21:34,760 Speaker 1: would just be the material that you're just selling. And 420 00:21:34,800 --> 00:21:36,640 Speaker 1: I just love that, so tell her and I try 421 00:21:36,680 --> 00:21:39,720 Speaker 1: to be very conscientious. And there's some stuff that's only 422 00:21:39,760 --> 00:21:42,600 Speaker 1: a few months old, but there's other stuff that we've 423 00:21:42,640 --> 00:21:49,240 Speaker 1: been doing forty years. I'm Zack mcneis in for Alec 424 00:21:49,280 --> 00:21:52,480 Speaker 1: Baldwin on our summer series from the Here's the Thing Archives. 425 00:21:53,160 --> 00:21:55,919 Speaker 1: Alex been hosting these kinds of surprising and in depth 426 00:21:55,960 --> 00:21:59,920 Speaker 1: conversations with performers, policymakers and authors for more than a decade. 427 00:22:00,480 --> 00:22:02,560 Speaker 1: If you want more, be sure to check out the 428 00:22:02,600 --> 00:22:06,600 Speaker 1: complete list and Here's the Thing dot org. After the break, 429 00:22:06,640 --> 00:22:20,160 Speaker 1: we'll hear more of alex conversation with Penjolotte. I'm Zach 430 00:22:20,240 --> 00:22:23,640 Speaker 1: McNeice and this is Here's the Thing. One of Penjolotte's 431 00:22:23,640 --> 00:22:27,120 Speaker 1: favorite weekly pastimes is movie night at his home, where 432 00:22:27,119 --> 00:22:31,640 Speaker 1: a less than traditional viewing experience ensues. Tuesday nights after 433 00:22:31,720 --> 00:22:35,280 Speaker 1: my show, people come over and we watch Vegas in 434 00:22:35,359 --> 00:22:38,240 Speaker 1: Vegas over my house a killer screening room. Yeah, we 435 00:22:38,280 --> 00:22:43,080 Speaker 1: have about Sometimes people come over and well, yes, but 436 00:22:43,160 --> 00:22:45,840 Speaker 1: this is not showing the love of movies. This is 437 00:22:45,960 --> 00:22:49,040 Speaker 1: just thirty people screaming. And people think when they come 438 00:22:49,080 --> 00:22:51,159 Speaker 1: over that it's going to be witty. It's not witty, 439 00:22:51,480 --> 00:22:55,320 Speaker 1: simply obscenity. It's simply spewing out the bile from the week. 440 00:22:56,160 --> 00:23:00,280 Speaker 1: Is a group, it's a group encounters much more than 441 00:23:00,320 --> 00:23:03,600 Speaker 1: more than And now we're in the middle of twenty four. 442 00:23:03,720 --> 00:23:07,919 Speaker 1: We're watching every season of and I am so trying 443 00:23:07,960 --> 00:23:11,480 Speaker 1: to convince Keefer to come by one night because I 444 00:23:11,560 --> 00:23:17,679 Speaker 1: would love to have you. Yes, how how tall are you? 445 00:23:17,720 --> 00:23:20,160 Speaker 1: Exactly came, you know, just we we and it's just 446 00:23:20,600 --> 00:23:22,480 Speaker 1: it's just screaming. He's just gonna get because you know, 447 00:23:22,520 --> 00:23:25,720 Speaker 1: I tend to because I have my children are nine 448 00:23:25,720 --> 00:23:28,440 Speaker 1: and ten years old, and because I do so many 449 00:23:28,480 --> 00:23:30,800 Speaker 1: shows and have so much stuff going on, I really 450 00:23:30,840 --> 00:23:33,040 Speaker 1: don't get a chance to hang out with friends. So 451 00:23:33,080 --> 00:23:36,040 Speaker 1: this is my two hours a week that just it's 452 00:23:36,040 --> 00:23:38,600 Speaker 1: what what's something? Yeah, exactly what some guys to do 453 00:23:38,680 --> 00:23:41,359 Speaker 1: with pokers? Just it's just yelling. So when did you 454 00:23:41,400 --> 00:23:44,080 Speaker 1: become this arbiter of bullshit? When did when? Did it it? 455 00:23:44,200 --> 00:23:46,680 Speaker 1: Just the things that you strike you as bullshit? That's 456 00:23:46,760 --> 00:23:48,560 Speaker 1: whatever word you want to use to sing, genuous or 457 00:23:48,600 --> 00:23:52,240 Speaker 1: false sortever, did it sat in your crawl? How long 458 00:23:52,280 --> 00:23:53,960 Speaker 1: before you decided I got to do a TV show 459 00:23:53,960 --> 00:23:56,439 Speaker 1: out of this? We we have always wanted to do 460 00:23:56,480 --> 00:24:00,119 Speaker 1: a skeptical TV show always, and we started pitching that 461 00:24:00,160 --> 00:24:03,639 Speaker 1: in the eighties. Yeah, and we're because we're both. You know, 462 00:24:03,920 --> 00:24:09,960 Speaker 1: there's two very strong schools in magic. There's the Houdini school, 463 00:24:10,760 --> 00:24:16,280 Speaker 1: which is the we are or as Robert Houdin said, 464 00:24:16,600 --> 00:24:20,280 Speaker 1: we are actors playing the parts of magicians. Uh. It 465 00:24:20,359 --> 00:24:23,840 Speaker 1: also starts with the sixteenth century the Discovery of Witchcraft, 466 00:24:23,840 --> 00:24:26,560 Speaker 1: which is the first book written that says this stuff 467 00:24:26,600 --> 00:24:30,119 Speaker 1: is fake. We are doing tricks. There's that whole school 468 00:24:30,160 --> 00:24:34,280 Speaker 1: that believes that the magician is someone who helps us 469 00:24:34,359 --> 00:24:37,639 Speaker 1: study how we ascertain truth. In other words, I've studied trickery, 470 00:24:37,720 --> 00:24:39,840 Speaker 1: so let's talk about the truth. Then there's a whole 471 00:24:39,840 --> 00:24:42,440 Speaker 1: other school, which is you know, David Blane, for instance, 472 00:24:42,440 --> 00:24:44,720 Speaker 1: who's a friend of mine and who we get along with. Well, 473 00:24:45,040 --> 00:24:48,159 Speaker 1: we have a very strong philosophical disagreement. He believes that 474 00:24:48,200 --> 00:24:50,960 Speaker 1: the magician's job is to distort reality, that you must 475 00:24:51,080 --> 00:24:53,959 Speaker 1: leave his show thinking things that aren't true. He believes 476 00:24:53,960 --> 00:24:56,479 Speaker 1: that strongly and can make a very coaching argument for it, 477 00:24:56,480 --> 00:24:59,760 Speaker 1: which I disagree with, but I know I like them. Um, 478 00:24:59,760 --> 00:25:02,000 Speaker 1: there's those two schools, and tell him I've always been 479 00:25:02,040 --> 00:25:06,679 Speaker 1: strongly in the Houdini amazing Randy camp on that. Ben ps, 480 00:25:06,720 --> 00:25:08,840 Speaker 1: I don't see a David Blaine theater in Vegas, by 481 00:25:08,840 --> 00:25:11,320 Speaker 1: the way, so I don't know who I'm putting my 482 00:25:11,320 --> 00:25:13,159 Speaker 1: money on, although we had him on the show and 483 00:25:13,160 --> 00:25:15,160 Speaker 1: he was He's great, He's wonderful. He's a great, great 484 00:25:15,160 --> 00:25:19,160 Speaker 1: magician and h and a great guy. Um. So we've 485 00:25:19,160 --> 00:25:23,080 Speaker 1: been pushing this and I would go in and say, 486 00:25:23,920 --> 00:25:29,880 Speaker 1: the nuts always have the passion and the scientists always 487 00:25:29,920 --> 00:25:34,760 Speaker 1: have this low key, measured way. What we will give 488 00:25:34,760 --> 00:25:37,240 Speaker 1: you in bullshit is we will do the best to 489 00:25:37,320 --> 00:25:40,280 Speaker 1: give you the scientific point of view done with the 490 00:25:40,320 --> 00:25:43,240 Speaker 1: passion of a nut. And I'm willing to give you 491 00:25:43,520 --> 00:25:46,520 Speaker 1: all that passion and rip my heart open and be 492 00:25:46,600 --> 00:25:50,679 Speaker 1: wrong and go off half cocked. But I'm gonna do 493 00:25:50,760 --> 00:25:52,560 Speaker 1: it for the other side, and and the and the 494 00:25:52,600 --> 00:25:54,160 Speaker 1: topics came to you, was like, what was the first 495 00:25:54,440 --> 00:25:58,399 Speaker 1: The first show is very complex because the first show 496 00:25:59,160 --> 00:26:02,919 Speaker 1: was about talking to the dead, and we conceived the 497 00:26:02,960 --> 00:26:06,359 Speaker 1: show to attack, you know, John Edward and those people 498 00:26:06,359 --> 00:26:09,040 Speaker 1: who say they can communicate with the dead. And I 499 00:26:09,080 --> 00:26:14,560 Speaker 1: conceived it intellectually, and then while thinking about it, my 500 00:26:14,600 --> 00:26:17,920 Speaker 1: mom died at the age of ninety in two thousand 501 00:26:18,359 --> 00:26:20,440 Speaker 1: and we started doing the show in two thousand one, 502 00:26:21,119 --> 00:26:24,480 Speaker 1: and this happened. Forgive me for only in this one 503 00:26:24,520 --> 00:26:29,080 Speaker 1: way comparing myself to Hudini, But Houdini had this intellectual 504 00:26:29,240 --> 00:26:32,880 Speaker 1: dislike for people who claimed to talk to the dead, 505 00:26:33,280 --> 00:26:36,040 Speaker 1: and it was a lot of Houdini's posturing, I do 506 00:26:36,119 --> 00:26:38,240 Speaker 1: better tricks than them. I do tricks no one can 507 00:26:38,280 --> 00:26:40,520 Speaker 1: figure out their tricks. Aren't that good? And then his 508 00:26:40,600 --> 00:26:46,440 Speaker 1: mom dies and Um Arthur Conan Doyle CHERYLA. Holmes writer, 509 00:26:47,040 --> 00:26:50,400 Speaker 1: it was a big believer in in spiritualist. Judini wanted 510 00:26:50,400 --> 00:26:53,640 Speaker 1: to be around him because Zudini Um was the son 511 00:26:53,680 --> 00:26:57,560 Speaker 1: of a rabbi, but uh, but it was not well educated, 512 00:26:57,880 --> 00:27:01,400 Speaker 1: and Arthur Conan Doyle was very acted and very well educated, 513 00:27:01,600 --> 00:27:03,959 Speaker 1: and Judini was thrilled to be traveling in that circle. 514 00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:07,080 Speaker 1: He was cheap carney trash, traveling the circle of the intellectuals. 515 00:27:07,119 --> 00:27:11,880 Speaker 1: He loved Eric and his mother. Judini's mother died and 516 00:27:12,200 --> 00:27:16,040 Speaker 1: Arthur Conan Doyle's wife did automatic writing, okay, which was 517 00:27:16,520 --> 00:27:19,080 Speaker 1: you just without thinking, you would just write, and it 518 00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:22,800 Speaker 1: was the spirits talking through you. And Arthur Conan Doyle said, well, 519 00:27:22,840 --> 00:27:25,160 Speaker 1: you know, you miss your mom so much, because Judini 520 00:27:25,359 --> 00:27:28,679 Speaker 1: was another similarity, a mama's boy, which I was. I 521 00:27:28,720 --> 00:27:33,560 Speaker 1: was very close to my mom and Houdini, you know, Okay, 522 00:27:33,600 --> 00:27:35,640 Speaker 1: it's a little dangerous, you're gonna talk to my mom, 523 00:27:35,720 --> 00:27:38,639 Speaker 1: but okay. So his wife sat down and then did 524 00:27:38,680 --> 00:27:41,359 Speaker 1: automatic writing and a ton and Doyle's wife, yeah, And 525 00:27:41,400 --> 00:27:42,960 Speaker 1: at the top of the page I would have given 526 00:27:43,000 --> 00:27:46,320 Speaker 1: the bay to be there was a cross and the 527 00:27:46,359 --> 00:27:53,040 Speaker 1: first words were dear Harry, and then it went on. Now, 528 00:27:53,240 --> 00:27:56,280 Speaker 1: what Arthur Conan and his wife didn't know was that 529 00:27:56,520 --> 00:28:00,679 Speaker 1: his mother didn't speak English. He was born in Budapest. 530 00:28:00,720 --> 00:28:02,800 Speaker 1: He claimed to be from Appleton, Wisconsin. He was actually 531 00:28:02,840 --> 00:28:06,119 Speaker 1: born in Budapest. He was the son of a rabbi. 532 00:28:07,359 --> 00:28:10,000 Speaker 1: Cross at the top probably not right, and his mother 533 00:28:10,119 --> 00:28:12,840 Speaker 1: never once called him Harry. That was a stage name. 534 00:28:13,600 --> 00:28:19,480 Speaker 1: So Houdini felt what it feels like to have your 535 00:28:19,520 --> 00:28:23,600 Speaker 1: image of someone you love distorted. And Houdini went apes 536 00:28:23,600 --> 00:28:26,679 Speaker 1: ship and then the second half of his career was 537 00:28:26,720 --> 00:28:30,040 Speaker 1: all busting these people. King and so we were going 538 00:28:30,080 --> 00:28:32,120 Speaker 1: to do Talking to the Dead, and I we did 539 00:28:32,200 --> 00:28:35,560 Speaker 1: that show, uh, you know, within a year of my 540 00:28:35,600 --> 00:28:40,640 Speaker 1: mom dying, And so it was very, very passionate because 541 00:28:40,680 --> 00:28:42,560 Speaker 1: the point that people don't make is a lot of 542 00:28:42,600 --> 00:28:46,840 Speaker 1: times the people that do this communication with the dead, 543 00:28:46,880 --> 00:28:51,000 Speaker 1: they say that they're bringing solace to people. The most 544 00:28:51,120 --> 00:28:55,160 Speaker 1: valuable thing I have in my life is the memories 545 00:28:55,200 --> 00:28:58,440 Speaker 1: of my family, my mom and dad, also my children. 546 00:28:58,440 --> 00:29:00,320 Speaker 1: The new memories I'm making, but let's let's go with 547 00:29:00,480 --> 00:29:03,040 Speaker 1: from the past, the memories of my mom and dad. 548 00:29:03,520 --> 00:29:07,240 Speaker 1: If I come to you grief stricken about my mom 549 00:29:07,320 --> 00:29:09,960 Speaker 1: and you claim that you're communicating with her and then 550 00:29:10,000 --> 00:29:13,800 Speaker 1: we have some sort of communication, what you have done, 551 00:29:14,280 --> 00:29:16,880 Speaker 1: you can call it bringing solace, but you can also 552 00:29:16,960 --> 00:29:20,800 Speaker 1: see it as distorting my memory. You've now said something 553 00:29:21,200 --> 00:29:25,960 Speaker 1: that she never said, And I cannot think of a 554 00:29:26,120 --> 00:29:29,760 Speaker 1: crueler thing. In order to get power and make money, 555 00:29:29,840 --> 00:29:35,440 Speaker 1: you're doing this, and it's actually the most Yeah, and 556 00:29:35,720 --> 00:29:40,560 Speaker 1: it's it's it's horrible. I am naturally not cynical, and 557 00:29:40,640 --> 00:29:44,120 Speaker 1: when you're naturally not cynical, you bump into this stuff 558 00:29:44,400 --> 00:29:47,560 Speaker 1: all the time. I tend to uh, I tend to 559 00:29:47,560 --> 00:29:51,080 Speaker 1: be skeptical but not cynical. And people always put those together, 560 00:29:51,280 --> 00:29:55,440 Speaker 1: and they are very different emotional states. You know, Skepticism 561 00:29:55,560 --> 00:29:59,840 Speaker 1: is is cold and cynicism is hot. You know. Cynicism 562 00:29:59,880 --> 00:30:02,600 Speaker 1: is is Uh, everybody's full of ship, everybody's lying to us, 563 00:30:02,600 --> 00:30:05,440 Speaker 1: everybody's doing this. Skepticism is let's get to the truth. 564 00:30:05,680 --> 00:30:07,520 Speaker 1: And those are two very different things, you know. And 565 00:30:07,640 --> 00:30:10,120 Speaker 1: I talked to Bill Moore about this, because Bill Moore's 566 00:30:10,240 --> 00:30:14,400 Speaker 1: proudly cynical and I am proudly skeptical, and we are 567 00:30:14,440 --> 00:30:18,520 Speaker 1: different things. It's a very different reactions. And and I 568 00:30:18,560 --> 00:30:21,720 Speaker 1: think that if you get to Pollyanna, and I am 569 00:30:22,080 --> 00:30:26,720 Speaker 1: very Pollyanna, I am much too optimistic. I'm much too straightforward. 570 00:30:26,920 --> 00:30:29,160 Speaker 1: It's one of the things you get, you get with 571 00:30:29,200 --> 00:30:31,959 Speaker 1: a with a perfect you know, everybody in show business 572 00:30:32,000 --> 00:30:34,440 Speaker 1: complains I'm from a dysfunctional family. I drop out of 573 00:30:34,440 --> 00:30:37,760 Speaker 1: those conversations. You know, my my dad never got the 574 00:30:37,800 --> 00:30:40,720 Speaker 1: memo that Dad's just supposed to give you conditional love. 575 00:30:41,440 --> 00:30:44,040 Speaker 1: He never got that. He was just unconditional love and 576 00:30:44,120 --> 00:30:47,600 Speaker 1: supportive and even thinks he didn't understand. My parents tried 577 00:30:48,000 --> 00:30:53,360 Speaker 1: from the time I was seventeen until the day they died, 578 00:30:53,920 --> 00:30:56,000 Speaker 1: tried to get me to cut my hair. And the 579 00:30:56,160 --> 00:30:58,440 Speaker 1: really funny part of it was that this boy, this 580 00:30:58,480 --> 00:31:03,880 Speaker 1: baby laugh is my mother. When she was in her 581 00:31:03,960 --> 00:31:08,280 Speaker 1: eighties and I was in my forties. My mother actually said, 582 00:31:08,400 --> 00:31:10,480 Speaker 1: I just love this moment. My mom sitting there and 583 00:31:10,480 --> 00:31:14,880 Speaker 1: she goes, you know, Pen, when you were a young man, 584 00:31:15,880 --> 00:31:19,600 Speaker 1: having the long hair was fine, but now that you're older, 585 00:31:19,640 --> 00:31:22,000 Speaker 1: I mean you're older than middle aged, and you have 586 00:31:22,160 --> 00:31:25,080 Speaker 1: some gray in there. You need to get your hair cut. 587 00:31:25,160 --> 00:31:27,280 Speaker 1: And I said, Mom, this is how far we've come. 588 00:31:27,520 --> 00:31:29,920 Speaker 1: We've now come to the point where now it was okay. 589 00:31:29,920 --> 00:31:33,120 Speaker 1: When I was young, that never happened, because every single 590 00:31:33,160 --> 00:31:35,600 Speaker 1: time she saw me, that battle went on. But I 591 00:31:35,640 --> 00:31:37,560 Speaker 1: want to say, and I want to say this proudly 592 00:31:37,600 --> 00:31:41,280 Speaker 1: to the world, that before my mother died, I went 593 00:31:41,360 --> 00:31:44,280 Speaker 1: out one evening when visiting her and we remembered to 594 00:31:44,280 --> 00:31:49,680 Speaker 1: get milk on the way home. Magician and entertainer Pendelotte 595 00:31:50,440 --> 00:31:52,600 Speaker 1: to hear the full interview of this show, go to 596 00:31:52,680 --> 00:31:58,120 Speaker 1: Here's the Thing dot org. Magician David Blaine is most 597 00:31:58,120 --> 00:32:01,320 Speaker 1: widely known for his television specials, where he often pushes 598 00:32:01,360 --> 00:32:04,400 Speaker 1: the limits of his own body. He spent thirty five 599 00:32:04,400 --> 00:32:06,840 Speaker 1: hours on a hundred foot high pillar with no harness. 600 00:32:07,280 --> 00:32:10,000 Speaker 1: He encased himself in a six ton block of ice 601 00:32:10,280 --> 00:32:13,959 Speaker 1: for sixty three hours, and in two thousand six, at 602 00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:17,280 Speaker 1: Lincoln Center in New York City, Blaine spent seven days 603 00:32:17,280 --> 00:32:19,920 Speaker 1: and nights submerged in a tank of water as a 604 00:32:19,920 --> 00:32:23,200 Speaker 1: public spectacle, which culminated in his attempt to break the 605 00:32:23,240 --> 00:32:27,320 Speaker 1: record of eight minutes fifty eight seconds for underwater breath holding. 606 00:32:27,880 --> 00:32:31,440 Speaker 1: I witnessed the stunt live. Ultimately, Blaine fell short of 607 00:32:31,480 --> 00:32:34,280 Speaker 1: the record, managing to hold his breath for an incredible 608 00:32:34,360 --> 00:32:37,320 Speaker 1: seven minutes and eight seconds before he finally took a breath, 609 00:32:38,360 --> 00:32:41,040 Speaker 1: long before the body punishing stunts and card tricks on 610 00:32:41,040 --> 00:32:45,320 Speaker 1: the street. David Blaine came from humble roots. We grew 611 00:32:45,360 --> 00:32:48,240 Speaker 1: up really poor. So my mother in Brooklyn. Yeah, my 612 00:32:48,320 --> 00:32:51,760 Speaker 1: mother raised me as a single mother, working multiple jobs. 613 00:32:51,800 --> 00:32:54,200 Speaker 1: She actually grew up with a really wealthy family and 614 00:32:54,360 --> 00:32:57,240 Speaker 1: when she was eighteen, she was living at the Sharon 615 00:32:57,280 --> 00:33:01,120 Speaker 1: Neveland with her family that was the of the Jewish mafia, 616 00:33:01,240 --> 00:33:03,880 Speaker 1: one of the top families that was on the cover 617 00:33:03,960 --> 00:33:06,920 Speaker 1: of Time Life magazine. All these crazy things, and she 618 00:33:07,040 --> 00:33:09,280 Speaker 1: felt that that that the whole family and all the 619 00:33:09,320 --> 00:33:12,120 Speaker 1: corruption was really bad. And eventually, at age eighteen, she 620 00:33:12,200 --> 00:33:15,440 Speaker 1: tried to kill herself. So she went to rehab and 621 00:33:16,640 --> 00:33:19,440 Speaker 1: she had kind of a coming of age, and she 622 00:33:19,560 --> 00:33:22,719 Speaker 1: moved to Brooklyn, never to really speak to her family 623 00:33:22,760 --> 00:33:25,680 Speaker 1: for the most part again. And then she met my 624 00:33:25,920 --> 00:33:31,280 Speaker 1: biological father. She met him in a nondenominational church and 625 00:33:31,800 --> 00:33:36,600 Speaker 1: when they fell in love, he immediately got shipped to Vietnam. 626 00:33:36,640 --> 00:33:39,240 Speaker 1: So she waited for him. Where was he from? He 627 00:33:39,360 --> 00:33:42,200 Speaker 1: was Puerto Rican in a mixture of other things, and 628 00:33:42,360 --> 00:33:43,840 Speaker 1: didn't know him too well. I only met him a 629 00:33:43,880 --> 00:33:49,320 Speaker 1: couple of times. So they fell in love. He got 630 00:33:49,360 --> 00:33:54,160 Speaker 1: sent off to Vietnam, and when he came back, as 631 00:33:54,200 --> 00:33:57,200 Speaker 1: many of the soldiers, he had witnessed things there that 632 00:33:57,680 --> 00:34:00,440 Speaker 1: completely destroyed it, like he saw his close friend get 633 00:34:00,560 --> 00:34:03,400 Speaker 1: hung up on a tree alive and gutted, and all 634 00:34:03,400 --> 00:34:06,360 Speaker 1: these terrible things. When he came back, my mother had 635 00:34:06,360 --> 00:34:10,399 Speaker 1: waited for him, and he was having nightmares and waking 636 00:34:10,480 --> 00:34:18,040 Speaker 1: up with violent you know, screaming, yelling, breaking, So she 637 00:34:18,160 --> 00:34:20,439 Speaker 1: got pregnant. When she told him a few months later 638 00:34:20,480 --> 00:34:24,360 Speaker 1: that she was pregnant, at that point he looked at 639 00:34:24,400 --> 00:34:28,040 Speaker 1: her and said, I don't want to see you anymore 640 00:34:28,120 --> 00:34:31,200 Speaker 1: and he left. So that was it and my mother 641 00:34:31,560 --> 00:34:35,960 Speaker 1: put everything, everything that she had into me. We lived 642 00:34:35,960 --> 00:34:38,920 Speaker 1: in a sixth story walk up. We started in flatbushed 643 00:34:38,960 --> 00:34:40,839 Speaker 1: and we went to park slope and it wasn't what 644 00:34:40,880 --> 00:34:46,959 Speaker 1: it is today, you know it. Aged three, my biological 645 00:34:47,040 --> 00:34:49,680 Speaker 1: father showed up. I was ringing the doorbell because I 646 00:34:49,680 --> 00:34:52,239 Speaker 1: guess he wanted to see me and maybe her, And 647 00:34:52,280 --> 00:34:55,280 Speaker 1: when she came downstairs, he punched during the nose, broke 648 00:34:55,320 --> 00:34:57,560 Speaker 1: her nose and everything like that. So it's kind of 649 00:34:57,600 --> 00:35:00,759 Speaker 1: like my first jarring and you know, terrible memory of things. 650 00:35:01,160 --> 00:35:05,400 Speaker 1: But anyway, at around the age of four, her mother 651 00:35:05,520 --> 00:35:08,279 Speaker 1: had given her a Tarot deck of playing cards. It 652 00:35:08,320 --> 00:35:10,560 Speaker 1: was a regular deck of cards of Tarot images on it, 653 00:35:10,960 --> 00:35:12,759 Speaker 1: and she gave it to me and I cherished this 654 00:35:12,840 --> 00:35:15,839 Speaker 1: deck of cards and carried it everywhere. Now, one thing 655 00:35:15,840 --> 00:35:17,960 Speaker 1: that my mother did is when she had time, she 656 00:35:17,960 --> 00:35:22,000 Speaker 1: would always take me to museums, libraries, bookstore, everything that 657 00:35:22,080 --> 00:35:24,760 Speaker 1: she could just to educate me and show me other things, 658 00:35:24,880 --> 00:35:27,400 Speaker 1: which was way more valuable than any of the toys 659 00:35:27,440 --> 00:35:30,399 Speaker 1: that i've you know, you could ever give or get. 660 00:35:31,280 --> 00:35:35,799 Speaker 1: And so I would wait for her at the library 661 00:35:36,000 --> 00:35:39,080 Speaker 1: and a librarian that was working there showed me the 662 00:35:39,239 --> 00:35:43,160 Speaker 1: simple self working mathematical book of magic Tricks using that 663 00:35:43,200 --> 00:35:45,640 Speaker 1: deck of cards. I always said, so I learned something 664 00:35:45,880 --> 00:35:48,640 Speaker 1: very simple, And when my mother showed up, I did 665 00:35:48,680 --> 00:35:51,640 Speaker 1: this to her and she went crazy like she had 666 00:35:51,680 --> 00:35:54,680 Speaker 1: witnessed real magic. And that was the beginning of the 667 00:35:55,120 --> 00:35:59,239 Speaker 1: love for performing and learning more and continue. You thought 668 00:35:59,239 --> 00:36:02,280 Speaker 1: I could just get a Vegas lounge filled with people 669 00:36:02,320 --> 00:36:05,880 Speaker 1: like my mother, then I'd be said, rip it. But 670 00:36:06,000 --> 00:36:08,320 Speaker 1: the other thing that happened was I was also born 671 00:36:08,440 --> 00:36:13,080 Speaker 1: with my feet turned in, so yeah, but really bad. 672 00:36:13,120 --> 00:36:15,080 Speaker 1: So I had leg braces and it's like Forrest Gump 673 00:36:15,120 --> 00:36:17,359 Speaker 1: and I had leg braces and things like that. So 674 00:36:17,440 --> 00:36:20,360 Speaker 1: when you're in Brooklyn without a dad and you're alone 675 00:36:20,400 --> 00:36:23,040 Speaker 1: a lot, and you can't run and you can't be 676 00:36:23,120 --> 00:36:27,640 Speaker 1: athletic escape, No, that's part of it. But you're also 677 00:36:27,800 --> 00:36:30,760 Speaker 1: picked on because when I wasn't at the library waiting 678 00:36:30,800 --> 00:36:33,040 Speaker 1: for her to finish, on days that she was working. Later, 679 00:36:33,480 --> 00:36:35,120 Speaker 1: I would go to the y m c A. And 680 00:36:35,120 --> 00:36:37,680 Speaker 1: I was on the swim team. So I couldn't beat 681 00:36:37,719 --> 00:36:41,040 Speaker 1: the kids swimming because my legs didn't and they still 682 00:36:41,120 --> 00:36:44,200 Speaker 1: don't actually, but they didn't work perfectly. So in order 683 00:36:44,239 --> 00:36:47,840 Speaker 1: to beat everybody, I just wouldn't breathe. So at the 684 00:36:47,880 --> 00:36:49,719 Speaker 1: age of five, I learned that you know, they have 685 00:36:49,840 --> 00:36:52,120 Speaker 1: to turn their head like this to breathe. There I 686 00:36:52,120 --> 00:36:54,920 Speaker 1: would just swim and I wouldn't breathe. So I started 687 00:36:54,960 --> 00:36:59,040 Speaker 1: to at a very young age, build up this inforance yeah, 688 00:36:59,120 --> 00:37:02,440 Speaker 1: or this ability to just use your brain to override 689 00:37:02,480 --> 00:37:05,120 Speaker 1: the pain basically, and I would win. And then if 690 00:37:05,160 --> 00:37:07,080 Speaker 1: it was two laps, I would hold for two laps. 691 00:37:07,080 --> 00:37:09,239 Speaker 1: So at the age of five, I started to get 692 00:37:09,280 --> 00:37:12,640 Speaker 1: really good at these types of things. Now I started 693 00:37:12,680 --> 00:37:14,879 Speaker 1: to play games with the kids, so I would challenge him. 694 00:37:15,000 --> 00:37:17,480 Speaker 1: I would say, Okay, I'll stay under water and you 695 00:37:17,520 --> 00:37:19,160 Speaker 1: can stand the water, and then when you go up, 696 00:37:19,200 --> 00:37:20,879 Speaker 1: you can come down, go up, come down, go up 697 00:37:20,880 --> 00:37:23,279 Speaker 1: five times. So eventually I was like that kid that 698 00:37:23,320 --> 00:37:25,839 Speaker 1: could hold my breath under water while they would hold 699 00:37:25,840 --> 00:37:27,560 Speaker 1: their breath, go up for a breath, come back down. 700 00:37:27,640 --> 00:37:29,920 Speaker 1: Go up come but but but I didn't even understand 701 00:37:30,120 --> 00:37:32,360 Speaker 1: that the science of it was that makes it very difficult. 702 00:37:32,400 --> 00:37:33,920 Speaker 1: When you go up and go down and go up there, 703 00:37:34,200 --> 00:37:36,840 Speaker 1: it wastes a lot of OO two. So that was 704 00:37:36,920 --> 00:37:38,959 Speaker 1: kind of the beginning. And do you hold the record? Now? 705 00:37:39,280 --> 00:37:42,279 Speaker 1: I had it, but it was taken away. Um, it 706 00:37:42,320 --> 00:37:44,040 Speaker 1: was taken away by a friend of mine, Tom Z 707 00:37:44,200 --> 00:37:47,440 Speaker 1: this year. Yeah, but I became friends with him through 708 00:37:47,880 --> 00:37:51,600 Speaker 1: through the breath hold when I did it on well 709 00:37:51,640 --> 00:37:53,200 Speaker 1: that's where I did it for the world record, but 710 00:37:53,239 --> 00:37:55,200 Speaker 1: the first time I did it was at Lincoln Center 711 00:37:55,640 --> 00:37:58,239 Speaker 1: and I did it live on my ABC television show. 712 00:37:58,280 --> 00:37:59,759 Speaker 1: So I held my breath and I was just going 713 00:37:59,800 --> 00:38:02,759 Speaker 1: for a straight non PuO two breath hold record, which 714 00:38:02,800 --> 00:38:06,000 Speaker 1: means you don't breathe PERO two first, you just purge 715 00:38:06,040 --> 00:38:08,360 Speaker 1: really hard and then take a deep breath and hold. 716 00:38:08,800 --> 00:38:11,000 Speaker 1: And the record at that time was nine oh eight. 717 00:38:11,440 --> 00:38:13,520 Speaker 1: And I thought, for some reason I would build up 718 00:38:13,520 --> 00:38:15,840 Speaker 1: a tolerance and and someholp pull it off. But I 719 00:38:15,880 --> 00:38:19,200 Speaker 1: cracked at seven and thirty. So then I went back 720 00:38:19,440 --> 00:38:22,799 Speaker 1: and I did the on Oprah. I did pero too, Yeah, 721 00:38:22,880 --> 00:38:24,840 Speaker 1: and that's a different world record, but that one I 722 00:38:24,920 --> 00:38:26,719 Speaker 1: knew I could get and the Perro two makes a 723 00:38:26,719 --> 00:38:29,400 Speaker 1: big difference of absolutely, and when you do, when you 724 00:38:29,440 --> 00:38:35,200 Speaker 1: hold your breath for seventeen minutes and four seconds, like 725 00:38:35,280 --> 00:38:37,760 Speaker 1: towards the end, are you blacking out? Are you punching 726 00:38:37,760 --> 00:38:41,280 Speaker 1: a table to try to keep yourself going? It depends 727 00:38:41,600 --> 00:38:44,400 Speaker 1: and then I mean, sometimes it's really peaceful and amazing. 728 00:38:44,560 --> 00:38:48,280 Speaker 1: When everything is just right, you kind of go somewhere else. 729 00:38:48,680 --> 00:38:52,520 Speaker 1: But when things are falling apart, it becomes layer after 730 00:38:52,680 --> 00:38:54,879 Speaker 1: layer and it gets worse and worse, and you're trying 731 00:38:54,920 --> 00:38:57,040 Speaker 1: not to black out, and the pain is building up 732 00:38:57,120 --> 00:39:00,680 Speaker 1: and you think you're going into cardiac arrest and you're fighting. 733 00:39:00,800 --> 00:39:04,319 Speaker 1: So when it's not perfect, it becomes really bad. But 734 00:39:04,400 --> 00:39:07,440 Speaker 1: when it's perfect, it's it's one of those amazing meditative 735 00:39:07,719 --> 00:39:10,600 Speaker 1: assuming it was perfect done open because you did seventeen minutes. Yeah, 736 00:39:10,600 --> 00:39:13,480 Speaker 1: it was pretty good, but it started really bad. It 737 00:39:13,560 --> 00:39:15,680 Speaker 1: was better at the end when I actually realized that 738 00:39:15,719 --> 00:39:18,120 Speaker 1: I made it and I wasn't, you know, going into 739 00:39:18,120 --> 00:39:20,799 Speaker 1: cardiac arrest. But the whole experience of it was was 740 00:39:20,840 --> 00:39:24,560 Speaker 1: pretty brutal. So the Deck of Cards four years Old, 741 00:39:24,719 --> 00:39:27,680 Speaker 1: your Mother is the beginning, if you will, of a 742 00:39:27,760 --> 00:39:32,240 Speaker 1: sense of the power of magic. Yeah, her reactions and 743 00:39:32,000 --> 00:39:34,000 Speaker 1: was and holding your breath in the pool was when 744 00:39:34,040 --> 00:39:37,480 Speaker 1: you first began to embrace and durance capabilities and the 745 00:39:37,520 --> 00:39:39,839 Speaker 1: advantages that could give you. But at the same time, 746 00:39:39,880 --> 00:39:41,960 Speaker 1: I was also in the library and I would be 747 00:39:42,000 --> 00:39:44,560 Speaker 1: looking at other books on magic. So you see images 748 00:39:44,600 --> 00:39:48,480 Speaker 1: of guys like Houdini, or specifically Houdini dangling from the 749 00:39:48,520 --> 00:39:50,480 Speaker 1: side of a building and you look at this man 750 00:39:50,600 --> 00:39:52,279 Speaker 1: chained up to the side of a building. You don't 751 00:39:52,320 --> 00:39:55,480 Speaker 1: have a father figure, like WHOA, this is really crazy. 752 00:39:55,520 --> 00:39:57,319 Speaker 1: So I would go to sleep at that young age 753 00:39:57,320 --> 00:39:59,879 Speaker 1: and I'd have dreams of these things that I'd seen 754 00:39:59,880 --> 00:40:02,600 Speaker 1: on these books. And what Judini was doing was kind 755 00:40:02,640 --> 00:40:04,839 Speaker 1: of similar because he was doing things that you knew 756 00:40:04,840 --> 00:40:08,120 Speaker 1: were real. Even at that young age, you could see it. 757 00:40:08,239 --> 00:40:12,240 Speaker 1: You know, it's not an illusion. When you're four years 758 00:40:12,239 --> 00:40:16,560 Speaker 1: old and you have the magic book and you're doing 759 00:40:16,560 --> 00:40:19,040 Speaker 1: the tricks to to go to the level you're at, 760 00:40:19,680 --> 00:40:22,120 Speaker 1: it is instruction involved. How do you go to the 761 00:40:22,160 --> 00:40:23,920 Speaker 1: next level after being the four year old boy with 762 00:40:23,920 --> 00:40:25,720 Speaker 1: the deck of cards in a book. In the beginning, 763 00:40:25,760 --> 00:40:28,440 Speaker 1: it's only books. It was a different day and age. 764 00:40:29,160 --> 00:40:32,000 Speaker 1: That's how you learned? You learned from reading? That went 765 00:40:32,000 --> 00:40:37,799 Speaker 1: on for how long? Um, until the age of eleven? 766 00:40:38,000 --> 00:40:41,360 Speaker 1: Did you have a mentor? No? My mother called my 767 00:40:41,480 --> 00:40:46,319 Speaker 1: great aunt who sent a check to her for a 768 00:40:46,320 --> 00:40:48,360 Speaker 1: couple hundred bucks so I could go to some magic 769 00:40:48,440 --> 00:40:51,560 Speaker 1: camp for a week, did you Tannin's Magic Camp. I 770 00:40:51,600 --> 00:40:55,880 Speaker 1: went there and Tannin's Magic from Long Island, where I 771 00:40:56,040 --> 00:40:59,279 Speaker 1: entered the competition and I won. So I had all 772 00:40:59,400 --> 00:41:03,040 Speaker 1: this comps as a kid, and I started doing little 773 00:41:03,280 --> 00:41:07,120 Speaker 1: parties and shows, but I never performed really from my peers, 774 00:41:07,200 --> 00:41:09,840 Speaker 1: and not other than my best friends. Nobody knew I 775 00:41:09,880 --> 00:41:13,960 Speaker 1: did magic, and it wasn't so you could have been 776 00:41:14,040 --> 00:41:16,239 Speaker 1: I mean, these are all tripes. You could have been 777 00:41:16,280 --> 00:41:18,400 Speaker 1: the life of the party. Yeah. But back then and 778 00:41:18,560 --> 00:41:20,799 Speaker 1: the kids are like, oh, you're some weird though, so 779 00:41:20,840 --> 00:41:24,239 Speaker 1: it's not. It's the opposite. It's like, get the yeah, 780 00:41:24,280 --> 00:41:26,680 Speaker 1: it's something weird, you know, you're a nerdy or so. 781 00:41:26,840 --> 00:41:28,839 Speaker 1: So I kind of kept it to myself pretty much. 782 00:41:28,880 --> 00:41:32,320 Speaker 1: And uh, at around the age of eighteen, I started 783 00:41:32,560 --> 00:41:37,920 Speaker 1: performing with it where, um all over New York. Really, 784 00:41:38,000 --> 00:41:40,240 Speaker 1: I would just I'd be walking off the deck of cards, 785 00:41:40,280 --> 00:41:43,799 Speaker 1: shuffling cards in my hand and like the guys you 786 00:41:43,840 --> 00:41:46,120 Speaker 1: know that they were the parking garage would see me 787 00:41:46,120 --> 00:41:50,040 Speaker 1: and they'd reacted just a simple shuffle. I was practicing. 788 00:41:50,480 --> 00:41:52,160 Speaker 1: So I'd go and do magic and I would get 789 00:41:52,200 --> 00:41:55,560 Speaker 1: all these amazing reactions from people, and it was addicting. 790 00:41:55,800 --> 00:41:57,000 Speaker 1: Who was at the top of the heap when you 791 00:41:57,040 --> 00:41:59,080 Speaker 1: were a kid, when you first became aware, and they're 792 00:41:59,120 --> 00:42:02,279 Speaker 1: they're just amazing using magicians, but they're not doing talk, 793 00:42:02,360 --> 00:42:04,920 Speaker 1: they're not known, but they're incredible. So they would just 794 00:42:05,000 --> 00:42:07,080 Speaker 1: do these in there in private world. No, yeah, well, 795 00:42:07,120 --> 00:42:09,839 Speaker 1: they'd all meet at this little deli in New York 796 00:42:10,320 --> 00:42:13,120 Speaker 1: and like the Earl in nine, it was called Rubens. 797 00:42:13,239 --> 00:42:15,200 Speaker 1: It was on Madison and thirty eight, and it was 798 00:42:15,760 --> 00:42:17,719 Speaker 1: you know, it was it was not the deli that 799 00:42:17,800 --> 00:42:19,719 Speaker 1: they would let us meet. It was the back room 800 00:42:19,800 --> 00:42:24,600 Speaker 1: of a deli and all these yeah, none seriously, none 801 00:42:24,640 --> 00:42:26,839 Speaker 1: of them. But the people in the deli were happy 802 00:42:26,880 --> 00:42:29,360 Speaker 1: because they like magic. So the magicians do stuff. And 803 00:42:29,400 --> 00:42:33,080 Speaker 1: then the magicians were you know, more green grass. Of course, 804 00:42:38,080 --> 00:42:41,600 Speaker 1: the father. I went to school with Barney, but his 805 00:42:41,719 --> 00:42:44,360 Speaker 1: card do you ever hang out with him? Yeah? He 806 00:42:44,400 --> 00:42:47,560 Speaker 1: knew all my relatives. So eventually, yeah, it was funny though, 807 00:42:47,600 --> 00:42:50,480 Speaker 1: those are the kind And then my great aunt when, uh, 808 00:42:51,520 --> 00:42:54,719 Speaker 1: when the one that put me to magic camp, that paid, 809 00:42:55,160 --> 00:43:00,360 Speaker 1: gave that, gave my mother that or three? When so 810 00:43:01,640 --> 00:43:03,919 Speaker 1: when when I started to make, you know, a little money, 811 00:43:03,960 --> 00:43:05,759 Speaker 1: because I was on TV here and there, which my 812 00:43:05,920 --> 00:43:08,480 Speaker 1: great aunt at a hundred years old living in San Antonio, 813 00:43:08,600 --> 00:43:12,879 Speaker 1: Texas thought was, I was, you know, this incredibly rich 814 00:43:13,160 --> 00:43:17,400 Speaker 1: guy would order from body from Party green Grass, from 815 00:43:17,440 --> 00:43:20,840 Speaker 1: the sun Gary every other week, and she's alone in 816 00:43:20,920 --> 00:43:25,160 Speaker 1: San Antonio and this little oh and and everything you 817 00:43:25,200 --> 00:43:27,800 Speaker 1: can take up astray and locks and this and that 818 00:43:28,480 --> 00:43:32,479 Speaker 1: filth everything they ship it down there. Once I showed 819 00:43:32,560 --> 00:43:34,879 Speaker 1: up when she died. When she died, I came there 820 00:43:34,960 --> 00:43:37,759 Speaker 1: the next day to handle everything. And I get there 821 00:43:38,520 --> 00:43:41,759 Speaker 1: and again she lives alone in a hundred and three 822 00:43:42,239 --> 00:43:47,080 Speaker 1: when she died, lives alone. I get there and the 823 00:43:47,280 --> 00:43:52,120 Speaker 1: next day a huge FedEx arrived from Party green Grass 824 00:43:52,200 --> 00:43:54,879 Speaker 1: and it's either loaded with this insane amount of food 825 00:43:54,920 --> 00:44:00,520 Speaker 1: that nobody could eat them. When you do a show 826 00:44:01,719 --> 00:44:04,560 Speaker 1: in the world of magic or illusion or whatever you 827 00:44:04,640 --> 00:44:06,200 Speaker 1: want to call it, and I'm gonna ask you what 828 00:44:06,280 --> 00:44:09,440 Speaker 1: do you call it magic? I mean, I just like 829 00:44:09,600 --> 00:44:12,719 Speaker 1: the word magic because it's a general term and it's easy. Yeah, 830 00:44:12,760 --> 00:44:14,960 Speaker 1: people get it. So when you when you when you 831 00:44:15,080 --> 00:44:18,120 Speaker 1: think of Houdini escaping, because a lot of his was 832 00:44:18,239 --> 00:44:21,840 Speaker 1: escape dustry, is that viewed is very very simple and easy. 833 00:44:21,920 --> 00:44:25,319 Speaker 1: Now have things advanced and now because that guy put 834 00:44:25,440 --> 00:44:27,680 Speaker 1: so much in so what he was doing it was 835 00:44:27,719 --> 00:44:30,040 Speaker 1: about like just being tough, you know what I mean. 836 00:44:30,120 --> 00:44:32,840 Speaker 1: I think he was very tough and willing to go 837 00:44:33,080 --> 00:44:36,000 Speaker 1: through whatever the hell it took. So it's like very 838 00:44:36,080 --> 00:44:38,359 Speaker 1: few people have that kind of tolerance to this day. 839 00:44:38,520 --> 00:44:40,719 Speaker 1: I mean even if your physical pain. Yeah, he was 840 00:44:40,800 --> 00:44:43,200 Speaker 1: just tough. I'm assuming he would be because you're a 841 00:44:43,320 --> 00:44:46,920 Speaker 1: very physically powerfully built person. Not right now, Well, is 842 00:44:46,960 --> 00:44:49,400 Speaker 1: there an exercise regiment throughout your career you've had to 843 00:44:49,440 --> 00:44:51,040 Speaker 1: do in order to have the strength, because a lot 844 00:44:51,080 --> 00:44:54,040 Speaker 1: of these things require tremendous strength. Big time you're standing 845 00:44:54,120 --> 00:44:58,000 Speaker 1: on a beam for you were up there h thirty 846 00:44:58,080 --> 00:45:01,399 Speaker 1: six hours hours? How is that on your body? Well 847 00:45:01,800 --> 00:45:04,680 Speaker 1: that you know, when I was a little kid in 848 00:45:04,719 --> 00:45:06,399 Speaker 1: school and I get in trouble and the teacher would 849 00:45:06,400 --> 00:45:08,279 Speaker 1: say go stand in the corner. I was like, come on, 850 00:45:08,360 --> 00:45:11,200 Speaker 1: this is easy, Like you stand for forty five minutes. 851 00:45:11,239 --> 00:45:13,719 Speaker 1: It's supposed to be hard, so yeah, and then you 852 00:45:13,760 --> 00:45:15,520 Speaker 1: can apply that. So it's like how long can you 853 00:45:15,640 --> 00:45:17,920 Speaker 1: stand in one place? So that's really what it's about. 854 00:45:18,000 --> 00:45:20,120 Speaker 1: So I would practice just standing in one place, and 855 00:45:20,280 --> 00:45:23,239 Speaker 1: you know, I'd put a chair somewhere and just stand 856 00:45:23,280 --> 00:45:25,080 Speaker 1: on and see how long I could do things like that. 857 00:45:25,920 --> 00:45:31,319 Speaker 1: But in order to prepare for an event, no, well, 858 00:45:31,400 --> 00:45:33,680 Speaker 1: I mean there's a training involved. Yeah. No, when it 859 00:45:33,760 --> 00:45:36,040 Speaker 1: comes to something like that, I would I build really 860 00:45:36,120 --> 00:45:38,600 Speaker 1: heavy weight vests or chain mail things like that, and 861 00:45:38,640 --> 00:45:42,200 Speaker 1: I would just climb stairs, so I'd add sixty pounds, 862 00:45:42,640 --> 00:45:45,480 Speaker 1: run upstairs, go jogging around the park, do all these things, 863 00:45:45,560 --> 00:45:48,000 Speaker 1: and I would hide it snowe city. But you build 864 00:45:48,080 --> 00:45:50,920 Speaker 1: up a real a real tolerance, and a real strength 865 00:45:51,000 --> 00:45:53,719 Speaker 1: and an ability to to endure anything. And with a 866 00:45:53,800 --> 00:45:56,080 Speaker 1: body that you put through those things, especially the breath 867 00:45:56,160 --> 00:45:57,880 Speaker 1: holding thing, I'm going to assume it. You don't have 868 00:45:57,880 --> 00:46:00,160 Speaker 1: to answer this question that there's a whole in you 869 00:46:00,239 --> 00:46:02,440 Speaker 1: of things you just don't do. You don't smoke, you 870 00:46:02,440 --> 00:46:04,440 Speaker 1: don't take drugs, you don't take alcohol, or are you 871 00:46:04,520 --> 00:46:06,799 Speaker 1: a little more liberal? I go through extremes. So when 872 00:46:06,800 --> 00:46:09,359 Speaker 1: I'm in training, I guess. So when I'm training, I'm 873 00:46:09,440 --> 00:46:13,719 Speaker 1: like extremely, I eat by the by a clock and 874 00:46:13,800 --> 00:46:16,880 Speaker 1: buy a scale. But when I'm on the other extreme, 875 00:46:16,920 --> 00:46:18,880 Speaker 1: I'll have like you know the opening of the movie, 876 00:46:20,239 --> 00:46:27,120 Speaker 1: I'll have another ship that one. But there's a supreme 877 00:46:27,200 --> 00:46:29,520 Speaker 1: discipline and then you let it drop, right, It's an 878 00:46:29,560 --> 00:46:32,279 Speaker 1: extreme on both ends. Is you're getting older, is it 879 00:46:32,400 --> 00:46:34,880 Speaker 1: tougher to do? You're not old? But no, no, But 880 00:46:35,120 --> 00:46:37,120 Speaker 1: I mean you know you feel the difference, and it's 881 00:46:37,520 --> 00:46:42,160 Speaker 1: it's it's definitely noticeable. It's it's it's more work put in, 882 00:46:42,280 --> 00:46:45,719 Speaker 1: but it doesn't feel more difficult. One of the things 883 00:46:45,840 --> 00:46:49,319 Speaker 1: I read is your desire to do some sleep deprivation 884 00:46:49,560 --> 00:46:52,319 Speaker 1: endurance record. Correct. I've been obsessed with that one. Why 885 00:46:52,560 --> 00:46:55,520 Speaker 1: just because it's so difficult. It's a thing during every 886 00:46:56,239 --> 00:46:58,880 Speaker 1: endurance thing that I've done, it's always a sleep deprivation. 887 00:46:58,960 --> 00:47:03,400 Speaker 1: That's ultimately the most difficult part. I mean, sleep deprivation 888 00:47:03,480 --> 00:47:06,320 Speaker 1: for me has really had a tremendous impact on my body. 889 00:47:06,840 --> 00:47:09,360 Speaker 1: For me, at least, I struggle. I have a terrible 890 00:47:09,440 --> 00:47:13,000 Speaker 1: problem sleeping. Although they say, like Edison and Lincoln, a 891 00:47:13,080 --> 00:47:17,000 Speaker 1: couple of guys used to take naps um throughout the day. 892 00:47:17,200 --> 00:47:19,160 Speaker 1: So they would only sleep a couple of hours a night, 893 00:47:19,239 --> 00:47:22,239 Speaker 1: but they would take fifteen minute naps and Edison would 894 00:47:22,280 --> 00:47:24,480 Speaker 1: hold like a set of keys in his hands, so 895 00:47:24,520 --> 00:47:26,399 Speaker 1: if he nodded off, he dropped the keys and would 896 00:47:26,400 --> 00:47:28,760 Speaker 1: wake him up. And that proved to be very effective. 897 00:47:28,840 --> 00:47:31,560 Speaker 1: So I think there's there's different ways to well, I'm 898 00:47:31,600 --> 00:47:33,960 Speaker 1: in a different business. Toda Edison and Lincoln Warren and 899 00:47:34,000 --> 00:47:36,080 Speaker 1: those guys, actually they looked like ship today. They really 900 00:47:36,120 --> 00:47:40,200 Speaker 1: looked terrible. They look wasted, tired. But I think especially 901 00:47:42,200 --> 00:47:43,840 Speaker 1: but I think there is a way to build a 902 00:47:43,880 --> 00:47:48,839 Speaker 1: good sleeper. Um, what's your normal constitution? Like borderline narcalyptic? 903 00:47:49,400 --> 00:47:51,560 Speaker 1: You are? Yeah, but I wake up every morning at 904 00:47:51,600 --> 00:47:54,560 Speaker 1: like five am. And even if I'm up, like yeah, 905 00:47:54,600 --> 00:47:56,919 Speaker 1: I just wake up when when at the crack of dumb. 906 00:47:56,960 --> 00:48:01,359 Speaker 1: But um, I nod off very easily, like I could 907 00:48:01,400 --> 00:48:03,560 Speaker 1: easily just lights out and that's it. And I mean 908 00:48:03,640 --> 00:48:06,360 Speaker 1: made conversation with all of my friends are at meetings, 909 00:48:06,400 --> 00:48:09,279 Speaker 1: I'll just not off right. And so my friends said 910 00:48:09,320 --> 00:48:11,880 Speaker 1: to me that he was a makeup artist and a 911 00:48:11,960 --> 00:48:15,359 Speaker 1: hairdresser in the movie business, and he said he worked 912 00:48:15,360 --> 00:48:17,319 Speaker 1: with Elizabeth Taylor and she would go to this place 913 00:48:17,320 --> 00:48:20,320 Speaker 1: at the Clinic of Jovenetta in the Italian Alps, and 914 00:48:20,360 --> 00:48:25,480 Speaker 1: they would go there and eliminate tobacco, alcohol, salt, sugar, caffeine. 915 00:48:25,920 --> 00:48:29,239 Speaker 1: They ate this very restricted diet. And these people would 916 00:48:29,280 --> 00:48:32,480 Speaker 1: go there and you would just pass out numb from exhaustion, 917 00:48:32,600 --> 00:48:34,719 Speaker 1: like every afternoon at like two o'clock and sleep to five, 918 00:48:35,520 --> 00:48:37,719 Speaker 1: wake up, have dinner, go back, pass out at nine thirty, 919 00:48:37,840 --> 00:48:41,480 Speaker 1: sleep ten hours. You just slept for a month, and 920 00:48:41,600 --> 00:48:43,759 Speaker 1: when the month was over, she lost thirty pounds. It 921 00:48:43,840 --> 00:48:46,239 Speaker 1: was a weight loss probably feel amazing. It was a 922 00:48:46,320 --> 00:48:48,239 Speaker 1: weight loss clinic and there and the key to their 923 00:48:48,280 --> 00:48:52,040 Speaker 1: weight lost thing was to induced just this ridiculous amount 924 00:48:52,080 --> 00:48:55,880 Speaker 1: of Yeah, the diet part is amazing too, though, Like 925 00:48:55,960 --> 00:49:00,319 Speaker 1: we're taking away salt, sugar and all that stuff that, Yeah, 926 00:49:00,320 --> 00:49:02,719 Speaker 1: and it makes your body function that much better. What's 927 00:49:02,760 --> 00:49:08,000 Speaker 1: your weakness? Food? Was David Blaine The Farest Pizza. Luckily 928 00:49:08,040 --> 00:49:16,719 Speaker 1: it's in Brooklyn. In sitting now magician David Blaine. If 929 00:49:16,760 --> 00:49:19,600 Speaker 1: you're enjoying this conversation, be sure to follow Here's the 930 00:49:19,680 --> 00:49:22,800 Speaker 1: thing on the I Heart radio app, Apple Podcasts or 931 00:49:22,960 --> 00:49:27,279 Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcasts. More with David Blaine after 932 00:49:27,360 --> 00:49:40,080 Speaker 1: the break. I'm Zach McNeice in for Alec Baldwin, and 933 00:49:40,160 --> 00:49:43,520 Speaker 1: this is here's the thing. David Blaine is always thinking 934 00:49:43,560 --> 00:49:45,400 Speaker 1: about the next way he can push his body to 935 00:49:45,480 --> 00:49:48,840 Speaker 1: the limits. But for him, the best delusions always have 936 00:49:49,040 --> 00:49:51,680 Speaker 1: some truth to them. I try to do things that 937 00:49:51,760 --> 00:49:54,480 Speaker 1: are real and magic. So I go, you know, I 938 00:49:54,600 --> 00:49:56,880 Speaker 1: do use a camera and project things, but I also 939 00:49:57,400 --> 00:50:01,360 Speaker 1: will drink, you know, a ask full of kerosene, a 940 00:50:01,480 --> 00:50:04,239 Speaker 1: gown of water, light of fire on the stage and 941 00:50:04,239 --> 00:50:06,600 Speaker 1: then put it out. Or I'll hold my breath for 942 00:50:06,960 --> 00:50:09,120 Speaker 1: ten to fifteen minutes and the water tank on the 943 00:50:09,239 --> 00:50:12,000 Speaker 1: stage and um like the ice picked thing that I 944 00:50:12,080 --> 00:50:13,719 Speaker 1: did to y'all do that. So I mix it up, 945 00:50:13,800 --> 00:50:17,280 Speaker 1: so it's the concept is real or magic? What's happening 946 00:50:17,320 --> 00:50:19,759 Speaker 1: to entertain the audience? Are they like their bartenders? Like? 947 00:50:20,080 --> 00:50:22,480 Speaker 1: Are there waiters? Like distributing drinks to the ground while 948 00:50:22,480 --> 00:50:26,279 Speaker 1: you're holding your breath right on you. The way I 949 00:50:26,440 --> 00:50:28,920 Speaker 1: used to do was in the beginning, it started with 950 00:50:29,040 --> 00:50:31,520 Speaker 1: an act where I would do I'd be underwater and 951 00:50:31,560 --> 00:50:33,839 Speaker 1: I would do all these magic things underwater, like I'd 952 00:50:33,840 --> 00:50:37,440 Speaker 1: smoke a cigar underwater. I would have an eel come 953 00:50:37,480 --> 00:50:39,800 Speaker 1: out of my mouth. I would do all of these things, 954 00:50:40,320 --> 00:50:43,440 Speaker 1: but it started taking away from that, I'm actually holding 955 00:50:43,520 --> 00:50:45,920 Speaker 1: my breath the entire time. So basically what we did 956 00:50:46,000 --> 00:50:48,560 Speaker 1: is we took all of that away and just made 957 00:50:48,600 --> 00:50:51,040 Speaker 1: it about the actual feet of endurance and let them 958 00:50:51,120 --> 00:50:53,359 Speaker 1: walk around and feel it and see if it's real 959 00:50:53,440 --> 00:50:56,520 Speaker 1: and interact with it, and that became much more effective. 960 00:50:56,600 --> 00:50:58,040 Speaker 1: So it was kind of like when you see a 961 00:50:58,080 --> 00:51:00,759 Speaker 1: guy that's risking his life for that entire duration and 962 00:51:00,840 --> 00:51:04,320 Speaker 1: if you believe that he's really not breathing, that stands 963 00:51:04,320 --> 00:51:06,480 Speaker 1: on its own without the actual tricks. So it was 964 00:51:06,760 --> 00:51:09,040 Speaker 1: it's playing with that line of like how far can 965 00:51:09,120 --> 00:51:11,640 Speaker 1: you push yourself before you crack? Live in front of 966 00:51:11,640 --> 00:51:14,520 Speaker 1: an audience that I'm intrigued by. The Delian Deli on 967 00:51:14,600 --> 00:51:17,279 Speaker 1: Madison was called one Again Rubens and you and are 968 00:51:17,320 --> 00:51:19,480 Speaker 1: you a Magic Castle person? Have you hung out there? 969 00:51:19,960 --> 00:51:23,480 Speaker 1: I have friends have friends that performed there and described 970 00:51:23,520 --> 00:51:25,440 Speaker 1: to people what kind of a function that service. It's 971 00:51:25,480 --> 00:51:29,000 Speaker 1: a private club. Yeah, there's a bunch of amazing magicians 972 00:51:29,120 --> 00:51:32,640 Speaker 1: that you know that that hang out there and socialize there. 973 00:51:32,719 --> 00:51:34,919 Speaker 1: But so when people come, they get to see these 974 00:51:35,640 --> 00:51:40,440 Speaker 1: improvisational sort of improvisational magic shows. It's pretty amazing if 975 00:51:40,480 --> 00:51:42,640 Speaker 1: I went there years ago, But it depends you know 976 00:51:42,760 --> 00:51:45,840 Speaker 1: who's there. So if it's like if people are lucky 977 00:51:45,920 --> 00:51:49,640 Speaker 1: to see like Derek, they'll Gaudio and uh and Garrett 978 00:51:49,719 --> 00:51:52,680 Speaker 1: Thomas or some of these guys performed there, it's kind 979 00:51:52,719 --> 00:51:54,960 Speaker 1: of like WHOA. There might be a lot of people 980 00:51:55,080 --> 00:51:58,800 Speaker 1: who you know and Saime. In my business, there's journeyman 981 00:51:58,880 --> 00:52:02,560 Speaker 1: actors who are doing we theater who are the great 982 00:52:02,640 --> 00:52:05,680 Speaker 1: undiscovered actors. You know, they don't have big careers in 983 00:52:05,719 --> 00:52:08,400 Speaker 1: film and TV, but but they're phenomena. They just they 984 00:52:08,480 --> 00:52:12,839 Speaker 1: just crushed that time. So there's guys out there who 985 00:52:12,880 --> 00:52:16,120 Speaker 1: are famous, amazing, but that you'll never know. Is it 986 00:52:16,160 --> 00:52:17,920 Speaker 1: because there's only room for so many? Do you think 987 00:52:17,920 --> 00:52:19,719 Speaker 1: there's only so many seats at a table up there 988 00:52:19,719 --> 00:52:21,440 Speaker 1: at the top. No, I don't think so. I just 989 00:52:21,560 --> 00:52:24,080 Speaker 1: think like there's different things to work on. Like a 990 00:52:24,120 --> 00:52:28,480 Speaker 1: lot of magicians complain about houdini showmanship skills during his 991 00:52:28,640 --> 00:52:30,719 Speaker 1: lifetime because they say, oh I could do that better, 992 00:52:30,920 --> 00:52:32,880 Speaker 1: I could do this. But Houdini was a showman, so 993 00:52:32,960 --> 00:52:35,680 Speaker 1: he was kind of thinking about the the bigger picture 994 00:52:35,760 --> 00:52:38,320 Speaker 1: in certain senses. So there are guys that could do 995 00:52:38,480 --> 00:52:41,080 Speaker 1: much better slight of hand than him, or could could 996 00:52:41,120 --> 00:52:44,600 Speaker 1: do moves that were better routines. But he was thinking about, 997 00:52:44,960 --> 00:52:49,080 Speaker 1: you know, the actual showmanship of on a bigger scale. 998 00:52:49,160 --> 00:52:52,399 Speaker 1: So before you go out, whether it's on Oprah, any 999 00:52:52,480 --> 00:52:56,399 Speaker 1: kind of endurance event you've done, exhibition, any show you've done, 1000 00:52:56,480 --> 00:52:59,839 Speaker 1: whatever you've done, is there a state you have to enter? 1001 00:53:00,120 --> 00:53:03,280 Speaker 1: Is there a regiment you adhere to to get your mind? 1002 00:53:04,160 --> 00:53:05,520 Speaker 1: Because I would imagine you have to have the most 1003 00:53:05,600 --> 00:53:08,360 Speaker 1: intense level of concentration known to man, right, which is 1004 00:53:08,400 --> 00:53:11,520 Speaker 1: why I do so few like I do such little things, 1005 00:53:11,560 --> 00:53:13,960 Speaker 1: because when I go into something, I put everything into it. 1006 00:53:15,040 --> 00:53:17,839 Speaker 1: You know, the movie Houdini is it's it's a wonderful movie. 1007 00:53:17,880 --> 00:53:20,239 Speaker 1: It's enjoyable, but it's a little shiny. I mean, it's 1008 00:53:20,320 --> 00:53:22,719 Speaker 1: it's a Tony Curtis and Janet Lee and the whole thing. 1009 00:53:23,120 --> 00:53:25,920 Speaker 1: But there are moments that are thrilling, and you carry 1010 00:53:25,960 --> 00:53:27,840 Speaker 1: into it your obsession with Houdini and a man that 1011 00:53:27,920 --> 00:53:31,319 Speaker 1: did those kinds of things back then. And there are 1012 00:53:31,400 --> 00:53:35,000 Speaker 1: intimations in that room of the supernatural where they've got 1013 00:53:35,080 --> 00:53:38,640 Speaker 1: some kind of otherworldly dial tone that they're making their 1014 00:53:38,680 --> 00:53:40,399 Speaker 1: phone calls on there that you and I that other 1015 00:53:40,400 --> 00:53:43,440 Speaker 1: people don't have. Yeah, that's the movies, right, that's the movies. 1016 00:53:43,600 --> 00:53:46,160 Speaker 1: So in real life, to you, it's all reality, and 1017 00:53:46,200 --> 00:53:48,920 Speaker 1: it's all technical and it's all your hard work, and 1018 00:53:48,960 --> 00:53:52,759 Speaker 1: there's nothing about anything that's done in that world. No, 1019 00:53:52,920 --> 00:53:54,960 Speaker 1: that's the stuff I'm most interesting. Is I like the 1020 00:53:55,160 --> 00:53:57,640 Speaker 1: idea that like anything that I do, anybody could do 1021 00:53:58,360 --> 00:54:04,799 Speaker 1: you really believe that that? Okay, does your religion come 1022 00:54:04,800 --> 00:54:07,640 Speaker 1: into play in any way in your life? I mean 1023 00:54:07,840 --> 00:54:10,080 Speaker 1: that that's a good question. So the last thing my 1024 00:54:10,200 --> 00:54:14,000 Speaker 1: mother said before she died was God is love, and 1025 00:54:14,080 --> 00:54:16,200 Speaker 1: I kind of I think that that that's kind of 1026 00:54:16,280 --> 00:54:18,440 Speaker 1: what I look at it as I look at you know, 1027 00:54:18,520 --> 00:54:20,920 Speaker 1: I kind of have blind faith in a weird way. 1028 00:54:21,360 --> 00:54:23,840 Speaker 1: It's funny though, because I'm so skeptical of everything. But 1029 00:54:23,920 --> 00:54:25,960 Speaker 1: at the same time, it's like I feel my mother 1030 00:54:26,120 --> 00:54:30,040 Speaker 1: there when things are going really bad. So that's kind 1031 00:54:30,040 --> 00:54:31,800 Speaker 1: of where I'm at now, you know, in terms of 1032 00:54:31,920 --> 00:54:37,400 Speaker 1: my life, it's become so um uh so spiritual. But 1033 00:54:37,520 --> 00:54:39,800 Speaker 1: you know, I actually just thought about something. I do 1034 00:54:40,000 --> 00:54:43,040 Speaker 1: think that, like what you do is very like what 1035 00:54:43,200 --> 00:54:45,040 Speaker 1: you said, Is it is it real or do you 1036 00:54:45,120 --> 00:54:47,480 Speaker 1: think the powers are real? And I think part of 1037 00:54:47,640 --> 00:54:51,080 Speaker 1: being a really good showman is a magician is similar 1038 00:54:51,120 --> 00:54:52,840 Speaker 1: to acting because I think you kind of have to 1039 00:54:52,960 --> 00:54:57,080 Speaker 1: believe that what you're doing is magical while you're doing it. 1040 00:54:57,160 --> 00:54:59,000 Speaker 1: So I think part of it is you play into that, 1041 00:54:59,800 --> 00:55:04,160 Speaker 1: that commitment to this thing actually being magical. You are 1042 00:55:04,239 --> 00:55:07,719 Speaker 1: a solo act, correct, you've never partnered with anyone, You've 1043 00:55:07,800 --> 00:55:09,920 Speaker 1: never performed with anyone. No, but when I when I 1044 00:55:10,040 --> 00:55:14,160 Speaker 1: was doing my tour, I have a different Magicians do 1045 00:55:14,400 --> 00:55:17,120 Speaker 1: magic while I was breathing pure oxygen getting ready to 1046 00:55:17,360 --> 00:55:20,680 Speaker 1: go into the tank. So when you're shooting a project, 1047 00:55:20,800 --> 00:55:24,080 Speaker 1: when you're making a film, like as we're sitting here 1048 00:55:24,160 --> 00:55:27,080 Speaker 1: right now, we're being filmed, what's the conflict for you, 1049 00:55:27,160 --> 00:55:30,000 Speaker 1: if any when you are being told by people and 1050 00:55:30,160 --> 00:55:33,040 Speaker 1: now you have a collaborator, whenever you start shooting it's 1051 00:55:33,040 --> 00:55:36,840 Speaker 1: a collaboration. Is it all get worked out really, really easily? 1052 00:55:36,960 --> 00:55:39,560 Speaker 1: Or do you find that collaborating with people is tough? 1053 00:55:42,280 --> 00:55:45,360 Speaker 1: I mean, with him, I'm lucky because he's an amazing addition. 1054 00:55:45,560 --> 00:55:48,360 Speaker 1: So but but if somebody clicks, well, but if some no, 1055 00:55:48,560 --> 00:55:50,799 Speaker 1: he just has a great vision so if somebody has 1056 00:55:50,840 --> 00:55:53,200 Speaker 1: a great vision that goes beyond what your vision is, 1057 00:55:53,239 --> 00:55:56,520 Speaker 1: then it works. Well. If somebody's if you're fighting with 1058 00:55:56,640 --> 00:55:58,799 Speaker 1: somebody to try to like do something good, then it's 1059 00:55:58,800 --> 00:56:00,960 Speaker 1: a nightmare. But if you have but that's vision is 1060 00:56:01,840 --> 00:56:04,279 Speaker 1: let's do better than what you're doing, or or let's 1061 00:56:04,320 --> 00:56:07,000 Speaker 1: do better than what you're doing, then it's exciting because 1062 00:56:07,040 --> 00:56:08,960 Speaker 1: I know that in films, you know, directors sometimes are 1063 00:56:09,440 --> 00:56:13,319 Speaker 1: one Glen Carry Glen Ross, and he was a good directors, 1064 00:56:13,400 --> 00:56:15,640 Speaker 1: very very helpful man. It's also the guy that directed 1065 00:56:15,680 --> 00:56:18,560 Speaker 1: the Ricky j F two assistants and was speaking of 1066 00:56:18,719 --> 00:56:21,160 Speaker 1: him or or Copperfield, of any of the more well 1067 00:56:21,239 --> 00:56:25,000 Speaker 1: known people. Uh do you get like do you get 1068 00:56:25,040 --> 00:56:27,080 Speaker 1: an email of V now? And then the Copperfield says 1069 00:56:27,120 --> 00:56:29,120 Speaker 1: to you, I speak to both of them, the one 1070 00:56:29,360 --> 00:56:35,440 Speaker 1: always wondering world just burnt to the ground like that 1071 00:56:36,200 --> 00:56:38,279 Speaker 1: you seem. And I hope you don't take this the 1072 00:56:38,320 --> 00:56:39,880 Speaker 1: wrong way because I don't know you that well. I 1073 00:56:39,920 --> 00:56:41,880 Speaker 1: mean I know your person and I've seen you, and 1074 00:56:41,960 --> 00:56:44,279 Speaker 1: you seem like a very warm person. You seem to 1075 00:56:44,360 --> 00:56:45,839 Speaker 1: give a lot of love in your heart. You talk 1076 00:56:45,840 --> 00:56:49,320 Speaker 1: about your mom, you have a daughter and of course, 1077 00:56:49,880 --> 00:56:52,759 Speaker 1: in my mind, you're in that tank for seventeen minutes, 1078 00:56:52,800 --> 00:56:55,320 Speaker 1: you're doing one of these crazy things you're doing, and 1079 00:56:55,960 --> 00:56:59,040 Speaker 1: you know, all of a sudden you've crossed the endurance 1080 00:56:59,120 --> 00:57:01,440 Speaker 1: line and you've blown a gasket and had a heart 1081 00:57:01,480 --> 00:57:03,760 Speaker 1: attack and a tank of water and you're dead. Jesus 1082 00:57:04,200 --> 00:57:08,719 Speaker 1: does death hang over you? I mean, I I think 1083 00:57:08,960 --> 00:57:10,799 Speaker 1: you know. It's not like I have a death wish, 1084 00:57:10,800 --> 00:57:13,080 Speaker 1: So I'm never trying to go to the point that's 1085 00:57:13,160 --> 00:57:16,360 Speaker 1: that I'm gonna die. I train really hard, and I study, 1086 00:57:16,400 --> 00:57:18,440 Speaker 1: and I work slowly, and it's kind of based on 1087 00:57:18,840 --> 00:57:21,520 Speaker 1: estimations and mathematics, and I've done it this much, so 1088 00:57:21,640 --> 00:57:23,320 Speaker 1: now I can do it this much. And I slowly 1089 00:57:23,400 --> 00:57:27,280 Speaker 1: push and push. So I try to assume that I'm 1090 00:57:27,360 --> 00:57:29,800 Speaker 1: doing it in a way that I'll be okay um. 1091 00:57:29,880 --> 00:57:32,920 Speaker 1: But at the same time, I don't. I won't cancel 1092 00:57:33,000 --> 00:57:35,320 Speaker 1: an idea because of the danger. So you ever been 1093 00:57:35,400 --> 00:57:38,280 Speaker 1: scared before, You're ever in the zone doing one of 1094 00:57:38,320 --> 00:57:41,200 Speaker 1: these things and saying, wait a second, this is not 1095 00:57:41,280 --> 00:57:44,640 Speaker 1: going here. You're strapped into the rocket ship, and when 1096 00:57:44,680 --> 00:57:47,440 Speaker 1: the hallucinations start to come, like on the pillar it 1097 00:57:47,600 --> 00:57:50,880 Speaker 1: happened and uh in the block of ice, you go 1098 00:57:51,000 --> 00:57:53,640 Speaker 1: into another world. Things start to you, hear voices, you 1099 00:57:53,720 --> 00:57:56,520 Speaker 1: see people talking to that aren't there, and you start 1100 00:57:56,600 --> 00:57:59,640 Speaker 1: to really go into this sort of like a nightmare 1101 00:57:59,760 --> 00:58:03,200 Speaker 1: dream skate, but while you're awake. So it's it's always been, 1102 00:58:03,640 --> 00:58:06,760 Speaker 1: that's always been something that but but at the same time, 1103 00:58:06,800 --> 00:58:08,840 Speaker 1: it's weird because it's kind of like amazing at the 1104 00:58:08,880 --> 00:58:11,120 Speaker 1: same time. So this thing, you show me the pictures 1105 00:58:11,200 --> 00:58:13,240 Speaker 1: of the stage that you were crafting, can you give 1106 00:58:13,320 --> 00:58:14,760 Speaker 1: us a sense of win that might be ready but 1107 00:58:14,840 --> 00:58:17,000 Speaker 1: you might be doing that in the US. Win I'd say, 1108 00:58:17,040 --> 00:58:19,560 Speaker 1: you'll have it here in about a year. Yeah, and 1109 00:58:19,840 --> 00:58:22,880 Speaker 1: and and it will be everything that I've ever dreamed of, 1110 00:58:23,000 --> 00:58:26,240 Speaker 1: all put into one evening. You do it one evening. 1111 00:58:27,080 --> 00:58:29,760 Speaker 1: I wanted to not feel like a normal show. It's 1112 00:58:29,800 --> 00:58:31,800 Speaker 1: not going to be one even know it'll it'll it'll, 1113 00:58:32,840 --> 00:58:34,880 Speaker 1: it'll come and go, but it will be. It will, 1114 00:58:35,040 --> 00:58:37,600 Speaker 1: it will move, and it will change because you can't 1115 00:58:37,680 --> 00:58:40,040 Speaker 1: risk your life like that every night. So it's it's 1116 00:58:40,080 --> 00:58:42,440 Speaker 1: gotta it's got, it's got to live a life of 1117 00:58:42,480 --> 00:58:48,400 Speaker 1: its own. Thanks to David Blaine and Pendelt, and of 1118 00:58:48,480 --> 00:58:51,480 Speaker 1: course to Alec Baldwin, Here's the Thing is produced by 1119 00:58:51,560 --> 00:58:55,800 Speaker 1: Kathleen Russo, Carrie Donahue, and myself Zach McNeice. Our engineer 1120 00:58:55,920 --> 00:58:59,120 Speaker 1: is Frank Imperial. ALEC will be back next week talking 1121 00:58:59,160 --> 00:59:17,280 Speaker 1: to documentary filmmaker Alex Gibney m