Speaker 1: Fellow ridiculous historians, Welcome to this week's classic episode NOL.
Speaker 1: We were talking off air a little bit, and this
Speaker 1: is one of my favorite ones. I went through an
Speaker 1: obsessive phase with this.
Speaker 2: With what the ass wang? It's ass wong? All right?
Speaker 2: Is a nasty is way funny?
Speaker 3: Yeah, Miss Jackson, look at this one as a crossover
Speaker 3: in a way. This is the kind of stuff we
Speaker 3: talk about on our other podcast that we do with
Speaker 3: our dear dear Palt Matt Frederick. Stuff they don't want
Speaker 3: you to know. This is the story of how the
Speaker 3: CIA used vampires, weaponized psychology strikes again as weapons of war.
Speaker 3: Not like they had a stable of vampires that they
Speaker 3: would like set free on their enemies, you know, who
Speaker 3: would feast upon their blood, but just the idea of vampires, right.
Speaker 1: The aswalm is a fascinating legendary creature monster and it's
Speaker 1: well established in the folklore of the Philippines. As we'll
Speaker 1: see in this classic when the CIA needed to take
Speaker 1: care of a group of communist rebels over in the Philippines,
Speaker 1: they got super weird with it. They're really thinking outside
Speaker 1: the box.
Speaker 3: You are absolutely right, then, myth making at his finest,
Speaker 3: you know, for the purposes of control fame as it ever.
Speaker 2: Was, same as it ever was.
Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. Welcome to the
Speaker 1: show Ridiculous Historians. Thanks for tuning in. Do you remember
Speaker 1: how earlier in in a previous episode, we had said
Speaker 1: we would maybe do more ghost or monsters spooky stories
Speaker 1: leading into Halloween.
Speaker 2: Wow, yes, yes I do remember that. Then we're a
Speaker 2: little early for Halloween. But you know what, we're so
Speaker 2: chock full of monsters that were we just we just
Speaker 2: got them spelling out of the sides. So we're gonna
Speaker 2: start early with a story about something called the ass Wang.
Speaker 1: Yes, excuse, you're right, You're right, I think either way,
Speaker 1: you are correct. We were talking about a very specific
Speaker 1: type of monster. And before we get to it, let's
Speaker 1: introduce one of our favorite monsters, ladies and gentlemen, super
Speaker 1: producer Casey Pegram Casey, are you okay that I referred
Speaker 1: to you as a monsters that love it Casey on
Speaker 1: the Case? So, growing up, were you into monsters? No?
Speaker 2: I mean I'm clearly a monster of myself because I'm
Speaker 2: meaning cheese. It's on their show, Unshoptable and Behavior borish.
Speaker 2: Oh gosh, I hate myself now. Of course I love monsters. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: I was a little frightened of them. I thought they
Speaker 2: lived under my bed and in my closet. Sure, do
Speaker 2: you remember that movie The Willies Barely Well, that's a deep,
Speaker 2: deep kuy. It has young Sean Aston in it, and
Speaker 2: it's sort of an are You Afraid of the Dark
Speaker 2: style campfire tale movie where a second anthology, and there
Speaker 2: was one in particular where there was a really creepy,
Speaker 2: uh gangly kind of pumpkinhead looking monster with long, skinny
Speaker 2: fingers who menaced the children at a middle school, and
Speaker 2: that stuck with me.
Speaker 1: Man, Yeah, it's strange when you think of how profoundly
Speaker 1: some of those things can impact us as children. I
Speaker 1: was addicted to scary stories to tell in the dark.
Speaker 2: Those covers alone are like nightmare fuel, pure nightmare fuel.
Speaker 1: And the guy's a legit folklorest And one of the
Speaker 1: things I loved about it was that it was different
Speaker 1: from the usual fair of monstrosity that we see in
Speaker 1: the US. I've also wondered, I don't know how much
Speaker 1: the game's done in this, but I've also wondered and
Speaker 1: marveled at the sheer variety of goblins ghouls, which is
Speaker 1: monsters in other parts of the world, like just what
Speaker 1: we would categorize as vampires. Just that category alone contains
Speaker 1: hundreds and hundreds of creatures that many people have never
Speaker 1: heard of, but in their countries of origin, these creatures
Speaker 1: are taken very, very seriously.
Speaker 2: And one of them is the asswhal. Yeah, the Asswong
Speaker 2: is sort of a pantheon of monsters, right. It's sort
Speaker 2: of like in Japanese culture, you've got the yokai, which
Speaker 2: are just kind of a stand in for any kind
Speaker 2: of goblin or magical creature or whatever. And here's the thing.
Speaker 2: I wanted to pose this to you before we get
Speaker 2: too much further. Sure, we're talking about our childhood obsession
Speaker 2: and fear and you know PTSD associated with monsters, but
Speaker 2: as a thirty five year old man and Ben, I'm
Speaker 2: not gonna I'm not gonna spill your age. You're ageless,
Speaker 2: but I don't think monsters are real anymore. That is
Speaker 2: not something that keeps me up at night. It's just
Speaker 2: normal baseline anxiety that keeps me up at night. Now,
Speaker 2: that's my monster, yeah, but in other countries that's not
Speaker 2: quite the case.
Speaker 1: That's absolutely true. Hey, can I have some cheese its?
Speaker 1: Do you have any thanks? Can you guys tell we're
Speaker 1: recorded on a Friday afternoon, thanks man.
Speaker 2: So, yeah, that's absolutely true.
Speaker 1: These are taken seriously, and the ass wong is just
Speaker 1: one example. You'll hear other names for it too, like
Speaker 1: the tick tick or the clean clean or the osawong.
Speaker 2: But I think you're right.
Speaker 1: Our fears tend to evolve with us, you know what
Speaker 1: I mean, Our monsters grow up with us. That sounds
Speaker 1: way more cryptic than I intended. And in the Philippines,
Speaker 1: where the asswong originates, they have often been taken very
Speaker 1: seriously as like a legitimate, credible physical threat to you
Speaker 1: and your loved ones.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's one of those things where you probably if
Speaker 2: you grew up in the Philippiness tasty innet but got
Speaker 2: a good crunch, good trying to do it off the mic, goodbite. Yeah,
Speaker 2: that's probably good etiquette. But yeah, I mean, you know,
Speaker 2: if you grew up in the Philippines, or you know
Speaker 2: somebody that grew up in the Philippines, chances are you've
Speaker 2: met somebody that whether they themselves or someone they know,
Speaker 2: or possibly their grandpa or something, or you know, a
Speaker 2: loved one will have claimed with full belief to have
Speaker 2: either encountered one of these creatures, possibly been attacked by
Speaker 2: one of them, or even maybe know someone who met
Speaker 2: their untimely end at the hands or claws or fangs
Speaker 2: or you knowes dripping intestines. Yeah, can we go through
Speaker 2: some of let's do this get yeah? Okay?
Speaker 1: So, as we mentioned, a swong is kind of an
Speaker 1: umbrella to her, and in different regions of the Philippines
Speaker 1: you will hear different descriptions of what anaswog actually is.
Speaker 1: And despite its different variations, it is probably the most
Speaker 1: frightening mythical creature in this type of folklore. So one
Speaker 1: thing that's always kind of the common thread is that
Speaker 1: their shapes shit, they can somehow change shape. The big
Speaker 1: difference is arrive when we ask what shapes they change into.
Speaker 1: So we mentioned that they can have long claws. Do
Speaker 1: we mention the torso thing yet you.
Speaker 2: Alluded to it, Ben, But give us give us the
Speaker 2: quick and dirty.
Speaker 1: So there's the appearance of a person. It's just a
Speaker 1: torso arms in the head and they're flying, they levitate,
Speaker 1: and they're intestines dripped down under them.
Speaker 2: Just kind of dragging like a train, you know, and.
Speaker 1: They eat unborn children and toddlers. Usually they want to
Speaker 1: eat the livers and the hearts.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and there's even one that I think has some
Speaker 2: sort of specially adapted tongue that they can use to
Speaker 2: suck out the fetus from a pregnant woman.
Speaker 1: Yeah, like a like a very evil mosquito, exactly. Yes,
Speaker 1: So they're sometimes described as very very thin, they're always
Speaker 1: described as kind of fast, and some of them make
Speaker 1: different noises, right, that's going to be importantly.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right. There's some that look like pigs who
Speaker 2: make obviously pig type noises, snorting and you know, grinding
Speaker 2: their teeth, and and they're also quite large. Then they're
Speaker 2: also like werewolf type oswong that are you about like
Speaker 2: you would think some of them look more like a
Speaker 2: regular dog. Some of them look like maybe like a
Speaker 2: hyena or a jackal of something like that, or just
Speaker 2: some kind of any kind of like wild kind of
Speaker 2: rabid beasts. But then you have the scariest of all
Speaker 2: that there's a great connection between this and the way
Speaker 2: we look at these kind of creatures vampires. You've got
Speaker 2: the ones that look mainly like you.
Speaker 1: Or I, but they are still out for blood, livers
Speaker 1: and hearts, right, because they they can shift into a
Speaker 1: human form and then shift I guess into their more
Speaker 1: monstrous forms, as legend would have it. As legend would
Speaker 1: have it, Yes, very important, very important. They also have
Speaker 1: these weird, these techniques that are so fascinating since if
Speaker 1: you read on mythology dot net just a quick overview
Speaker 1: of Aswog there, it's apparently common for Aswong to turn
Speaker 1: plants into doppelgangers of their victims to hide evidence of
Speaker 1: their hunting from locals. That's pretty cool, man, I mean,
Speaker 1: that's a pretty I mean it's a dark power, but
Speaker 1: it's pretty neat power, right. And so they do it
Speaker 1: in two ways. They might make a doppelganger of a
Speaker 1: corpse so it looks like the person died without an
Speaker 1: Aswog attack. Or they might make a doppelganger of a
Speaker 1: living person. When they make one of a living person
Speaker 1: a living victim, then the doppelganger goes to that person's home,
Speaker 1: they fall ill, and they die. Why are we telling
Speaker 1: you all of this, Well, we're telling you this because
Speaker 1: this story comes into play in a very strange and
Speaker 1: ingenious way. Shortly after World War Two, the Philippine Army
Speaker 1: is fighting an insurgency led by communist rebels known as
Speaker 1: the hook balahp In. Pardon my pronunciation, I am not
Speaker 1: a Tagolic speaker.
Speaker 2: Well, you're not going to try the alternate pronunciation for
Speaker 2: when they sort of shifted their purposes. That one's even harder.
Speaker 2: It's got like an ng there said, he pronounced that
Speaker 2: ng on its own.
Speaker 1: So this, this army is having the age old series
Speaker 1: of problems that organized armies have when they run into
Speaker 1: gorilla forces.
Speaker 2: Right there.
Speaker 1: They're fighting an enemy that is often invisible, able to
Speaker 1: blend in with the local non fighting population, you know
Speaker 1: what I mean. And they're like, how do we how
Speaker 1: do we combat this? We need a method of our own.
Speaker 1: We need something we could do that will squash this rebellion,
Speaker 1: and it may need to be an unconventional method because
Speaker 1: this also just for the background here, these who are
Speaker 1: also called hucks Huk, they're fighting against the status quo,
Speaker 1: the wealthy Filipinos who had collaborated with Japanese invaders.
Speaker 2: Right because originally they were part of the team. Right
Speaker 2: during World War two, when the Philippines were leaked up
Speaker 2: with the US fighting against the Japanese. This group was
Speaker 2: fighting the good fight, right and then after the end
Speaker 2: of the war they started they kind of became installed
Speaker 2: as the de facto militia or military of the communist government.
Speaker 1: Right right right, because it's you can see how they
Speaker 1: feel very short changed in this at this position because
Speaker 1: the collaborators with the Japanese have grabbed a ton of
Speaker 1: land afterwards, and they own a bunch of resources, and
Speaker 1: the inequality of the country, which was already very extreme,
Speaker 1: is just going to continue as though nothing has changed.
Speaker 1: So of course they want a rebellion. Of course they
Speaker 1: want a different government.
Speaker 2: And just to try my hand at butchering and pronunciation,
Speaker 2: they did change the name after this switcheroo happened to
Speaker 2: huckbo in Baion Lebon Sa Hopon that was also known
Speaker 2: as the anti Japanese Army.
Speaker 1: That was pretty good, man, I thought that was pretty good.
Speaker 2: But not only were they against the Japanese army, they
Speaker 2: ultimately ended up becoming against the Filipino government because they
Speaker 2: believe that the President Manuel Roxis was a sympathizer with
Speaker 2: or a collaborator I guess with what the Japanese I'm
Speaker 2: confused about that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that he was collaborating with them to enrich himself
Speaker 1: and then also, you know, in his capitalism, So that's
Speaker 1: obviously not gonna fly with these guys. But there's another
Speaker 1: another player enters.
Speaker 2: The game, Yeah, the big one, because let's we forget
Speaker 2: the US is involved and has an interest here, and
Speaker 2: they want to get those those huckbo's literally running for
Speaker 2: the hills. So inter Air Force Brigadier General Edward G.
Speaker 2: I read this originally, and I thought it said Landslide,
Speaker 2: which would have been an awesome last name for in general,
Speaker 2: but unfortunately it is Lansdale. And he is a huge
Speaker 2: proponent of a little something called SIOPS. Ben bless us
Speaker 2: with your military history acumen. What's siops? Think?
Speaker 1: Everybody knows? Psychological operations also known as psychological warfare. This
Speaker 1: includes everything from propaganda given to soldiers over the radio
Speaker 1: to things like ghost armies that we've mentioned before.
Speaker 2: Yeah, like in Vietnam, the US military used the sounds
Speaker 2: recorded sounds of like wailing damned ancestors of the Vietcong
Speaker 2: and it works. So I would say SIOPS is sort
Speaker 2: of the art of freaking out your enemy.
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, I think that's a good way to describe.
Speaker 1: It's intimidation. And Lansdale is very, very familiar with this.
Speaker 1: There's a great book by an author named Max Boot
Speaker 1: called The Road Not Taken Edward Lansdale in the American
Speaker 1: Track in Vietnam, which touches on some of Lansdale's activities.
Speaker 1: Lensdale is no stranger to siops. He's he's a huge
Speaker 1: fan of psychological warfare, and he has he has chops,
Speaker 1: he has some uh, he has some things on his
Speaker 1: resume that are unethical but impressive. He orchestrates a campaign
Speaker 1: in Vietnam that makes nearly a million refugees flee the
Speaker 1: country because he hired a soothsayer to predict good fortune
Speaker 1: for South Vietnam and bad luck for the North.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 1: Okay, so not firing a shot, just getting into people's heads.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, you know. It reminds me of there's anpisode
Speaker 2: of Money Python where it's like the most dangerous joke
Speaker 2: in the world and they use it against their enemies
Speaker 2: and only every like major commander can only hold like
Speaker 2: one word of the joke at a time, because if
Speaker 2: they themselves read it in one go, they would be
Speaker 2: stricken mad or whatever. So they hold it up for
Speaker 2: the enemy to see, and you see, it takes some
Speaker 2: kind of a minute have to recognize what it is,
Speaker 2: and then they all just laugh themselves to death. Uh,
Speaker 2: you know, obviously kind of a silly satirical version, but
Speaker 2: sort of describing this phenomenon that we're talking about here
Speaker 2: using people's thoughts and attitudes and preconceived ideas against them.
Speaker 1: Yes, and we have a quote from Lansdale himself at
Speaker 1: something called the Asswongproject dot com siwar in the Philippines,
Speaker 1: Asswong and the CIA. So this is before his Vietnam stuff,
Speaker 1: by the way. So Lansdale says, a combat sy war
Speaker 1: squad was brought in to the Philippines. It planted stories
Speaker 1: among town residents of an Asswong living on the hills
Speaker 1: where the Hucks were based. So they spread these They
Speaker 1: spread these rumors, and then two nights later, after giving
Speaker 1: the stories time to sort of percolate up to the Hucks,
Speaker 1: the ambushers silently snatched the last man of a patrol
Speaker 1: and they killed him. They punctured his neck with two
Speaker 1: holes as if a vampire bit him, and they hung
Speaker 1: his body up by the heels to exsanguinate him, to
Speaker 1: drain them of all blood. And then they took the
Speaker 1: corpse and they dragged it back to the trail where
Speaker 1: the guy would have disappeared, and he just plopped his
Speaker 1: body out there. So what happened next, Well, they like
Speaker 1: littered these corpses, you know, all around the area. And
Speaker 1: it did not go over well with the with the
Speaker 1: invading forces right or the you know, attempting to overthrow
Speaker 1: forces right right, the communist rebel groups they returned, they
Speaker 1: were trying to look for their comrade. And can you
Speaker 1: imagine how frightening that is? Like, that's the thing. It
Speaker 1: may sound silly for people to be frightened of a
Speaker 1: mythological monster, right, but imagine you work with someone, like
Speaker 1: think of all your coworkers. You work with someone, You
Speaker 1: go out to a party with them, they disappear, You
Speaker 1: come back the next day and you find them with
Speaker 1: bipe marks and no blood. That's frightening. I might fall
Speaker 1: for that. I don't know, what do you think, nol.
Speaker 2: I mean, you know, tensions are already running high in
Speaker 2: this in this situation of this like guerrilla warfare. Yeah,
Speaker 2: here's the here's the kicker though. This was syops on
Speaker 2: the surface, but syops typically doesn't involve war crimes because
Speaker 2: you're not supposed to. You know, they're capturing these people
Speaker 2: and then they're basically torturing and murdering them. Yeah, you know,
Speaker 2: they're They're not like putting them in pow camps. They
Speaker 2: are using them, using their flesh and blood as some
Speaker 2: kind of crazy horror show to freak out their comrades.
Speaker 1: And that brings us to an interesting question here because
Speaker 1: you know, it's this event is not something that happened
Speaker 1: across the Philippines for you know, years and years. It
Speaker 1: was this single operation. But they may not have been
Speaker 1: actually scared of NEAs Swung at all. They may have
Speaker 1: just been scared of getting kidnapped and used as you know,
Speaker 1: psychological torture for their compatriots. And a HOK squadron at
Speaker 1: this time was about one hundred to three hundred soldiers,
Speaker 1: and we don't know whether they were actually scared of
Speaker 1: of a fictional creature or whether they were scared of
Speaker 1: the very real and very ruthless as you mentioned Cia, right, Yeah.
Speaker 2: He had another trick that he liked to use. Lansdale
Speaker 2: called the eye of God. And this is much similar
Speaker 2: to the ghost tape kind of stuff we will hear
Speaker 2: about in Vietnam, where they basically I don't know if
Speaker 2: they used a spooky voice over the loudspeakers, but they
Speaker 2: were like calling out the names of prominent huck you know,
Speaker 2: the commanders and threatening them with certain death and yeah,
Speaker 2: I mean, can't you picture it being kind of scooby
Speaker 2: doode out like that. Oh, get to the best part though,
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, So adding insult to injury, they would
Speaker 2: also creep into their camp and paint these spooky eyes
Speaker 2: on the tent or wherever the people were sleeping the house.
Speaker 2: I guess they had little huts. This is like they
Speaker 2: were in their villages, I guess.
Speaker 1: For some reason, that seems even creepier to me, to
Speaker 1: even creepier than hearing a weird noise, waking up and
Speaker 1: finding this non consensual artwork, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2: But this didn't like, you know, clear the Hucks out
Speaker 2: overnight or anything. I mean it you know, took about
Speaker 2: four years before Lewis Tarouk, who had been the leader
Speaker 2: of this organization for quite some time, actually surrendered and
Speaker 2: accepted a prison sentence. So you know. I mean, it's
Speaker 2: really interesting to read about this stuff, and it's certainly
Speaker 2: a fascinating type of warfare. That author you mentioned earlier,
Speaker 2: Max Boot the story says that this tactic was actually
Speaker 2: considered a war crime because they were killing these Filipino
Speaker 2: soldiers deliberately instead of you know, capturing them as enemy combatants.
Speaker 2: And then of course they were mutilating their corpses too,
Speaker 2: so not a good look, but I guess effective.
Speaker 1: I don't know, what do you think, mat Yeah, I mean,
Speaker 1: definitely not a good look, but certainly effective. And the CIA,
Speaker 1: so we clarify here, the CIA is telling the Filipino
Speaker 1: soldiers in the army to attack the communist rebels and
Speaker 1: use these tactics, and they do work. I mean, by
Speaker 1: the fifties, I think, as we mentioned, the Hucks are
Speaker 1: in serious decline and Lansdale will go on to do
Speaker 1: more of this sort of stuff, especially in Vietnam. As
Speaker 1: we mentioned before, the type of techniques he applied were
Speaker 1: also sometimes called black combat. He also did another psy op.
Speaker 1: We should mention he would have different messages broadcast. Noel,
Speaker 1: you had mentioned earlier, the messages warning rebel leaders and
Speaker 1: so on, but they would also fly planes very low
Speaker 1: overhead and broadcast messages to make the rebels believe spies
Speaker 1: were in their midst and they couldn't trust one another.
Speaker 1: So eventually, nineteen fifty four, the rebels surrender, and there's
Speaker 1: no argument about it. These tactics were very useful to
Speaker 1: Lansdale and to the army of the Philippines. The question
Speaker 1: that we have to ask ourselves is at what price victory?
Speaker 2: You know what I mean?
Speaker 1: It's not right to desecrate corpses.
Speaker 2: No, no, it's definitely not. And you know, I think
Speaker 2: our boy Lansdale would go on to use slightly less
Speaker 2: brutal techniques later in his career, but I guess this
Speaker 2: was just kind of a different time.
Speaker 1: He's also for anybody who wants a little bit of
Speaker 1: a lost treasure story. He also shows up in the
Speaker 1: old legend of Yamashita's Go, which is this horde of
Speaker 1: treasure that was stolen by the Japanese forces during World
Speaker 1: War Two and hidden somewhere in the Philippines, And according
Speaker 1: to the story, it's still there and you can go
Speaker 1: search for it yourself, as many other treasure hunters have
Speaker 1: tried over the past few decades. We should mention the
Speaker 1: existence of this treasure is largely not taken seriously by
Speaker 1: a lot of experts, but of course, who doesn't want
Speaker 1: to find it. You can read more about that by
Speaker 1: checking out work of the author's sterling Seagrave, who claims
Speaker 1: the gold was secretly seized by the US government after
Speaker 1: the location was discovered by interrogating and torturing Yamashita's driver,
Speaker 1: a major Kojima Kashi. And then here's where Lansdale comes in.
Speaker 1: Apparently he supervised the torture fun allegedly.
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, he's a hardened mofo. Sure. I mean if
Speaker 2: he's hanging up dudes by their toes and stabbing him
Speaker 2: in the side of the neck and draining their blood
Speaker 2: and for the purposes of spooking some enemy combatants, and
Speaker 2: then this guy could probably do just about anything. How many.
Speaker 1: I guess folkloric believes or mythological monsters do you think
Speaker 1: people honestly believe in in twenty eighteen, because I've heard
Speaker 1: in Iceland that people still believe in uh, fairies or no, sure,
Speaker 1: trolls maybe? Yeah, maybe trolls. Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 2: I don't know, man, Like I I want to believe.
Speaker 2: You're very molder about that. Uh yeah, No, I'm just
Speaker 2: moldy and sad and beaten down by life. Ben. But no, man,
Speaker 2: I don't know who are we to say?
Speaker 1: Who are we to say that's that's a good question.
Speaker 1: And you know what that makes me think of? You know,
Speaker 1: the people who are to say, oh, that was awkward.
Speaker 1: Let's do some listener mail.
Speaker 2: Do it well? Dominic Allen has this to say, Hello, Jents,
Speaker 2: just listen to your episode on the naming of California,
Speaker 2: and you asked us to tell you if we ever
Speaker 2: have seen a griffin, I have seen part of one.
Speaker 2: Would rather own part of one. Maybe this ties in
Speaker 2: beautifully with today's episode two. He's asked a question, what
Speaker 2: mythological creatures do you believe in? Dominic says he owns one.
Speaker 2: I shouldn't dilly dally and explain myself. In the thirteen hundreds,
Speaker 2: there was a man called John manvel Or was there
Speaker 2: who wrote a book called the Travels of Sir John
Speaker 2: manvel Or did he? In this travel book, he visits
Speaker 2: Asia and talks about the weird and wonderful people and
Speaker 2: creatures that live there, one of them being a griffiin
Speaker 2: this is also one of the more boring creatures he
Speaker 2: talks about. He states that griffins are from a country
Speaker 2: called Bakaria and had talons so long this is a quote,
Speaker 2: so long and so large, on great upon his feet,
Speaker 2: as though they were horns of great oxen, or of bugles,
Speaker 2: or of kine, so that men make cups of them
Speaker 2: to drink of. So what I meant was I have
Speaker 2: a drinking horn which is made from the supposed claw
Speaker 2: of a griffin. I interjected with that supposed at least
Speaker 2: that's what I tell people. I'm part of a fourteenth
Speaker 2: century living history group in England and it is a
Speaker 2: great conversation piece, as drinking horns weren't as popular in
Speaker 2: that time, but a griffin claw is a fascinating thing.
Speaker 2: The travels of Sir John Manvil could be a good
Speaker 2: podcast topic. I agree the people in the book are
Speaker 2: pretty ridiculous. Thanks for the podcast, look forward to more
Speaker 2: as they come. Always be ridiculous. Not going to be
Speaker 2: a problem, Dominic, No, we literally are contractually obligated kid
Speaker 2: doing this show, like we get in trouble if we don't.
Speaker 1: But also that's so amazing. This really inspires me to
Speaker 1: ask more questions on the show. Dominic. Thank you for
Speaker 1: also bonus points. If you can send us a picture, man,
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, we'd love that. And I assume that you're
Speaker 1: not doing the fourteenth century living history thing all the time,
Speaker 1: just because you did send us an email. This arrived
Speaker 1: via email, not via pigeon or parchment or a pigeon
Speaker 1: carrying parchment, But that's awesome. I would love to see
Speaker 1: a picture of this drinking horn. And I'm completely on
Speaker 1: board with the travels of Sir Manville. Our next listener
Speaker 1: mail is one that uh, I think both of us
Speaker 1: are really gonna dig. It is from Darren T and
Speaker 1: it's titled hangus the Monkey. Hi, says Darren. I listened
Speaker 1: from the start, but it's my first time writing. I've
Speaker 1: just heard your recent podcast on the Heartlepool Monkey. I
Speaker 1: live in Thornaby on Teas, ten miles up the road
Speaker 1: from Hartlepool, Heartlepool. He notes his tea side, not Tyne side,
Speaker 1: and he goes on to say I was taught about
Speaker 1: this as a lesson on propaganda and racism in primary school,
Speaker 1: showing how people with nothing to go on but propaganda
Speaker 1: about how all Frenchmen are short, wild and hairy can
Speaker 1: lead to this stuff. Whether this is a true story
Speaker 1: or not, it works as a great teaching tool, although
Speaker 1: I personally don't believe it is true. I think it
Speaker 1: was just an excuse for mocking nickname for people from
Speaker 1: the area.
Speaker 2: Here's the part.
Speaker 1: You're like nol like Mackhams, which are people from Sunderland,
Speaker 1: and Smoggies, which are people from Middlesbrough. But it's a
Speaker 1: bit of fun. Thanks for the hours of entertainment, Darren. Ps.
Speaker 1: You pronounced all the time side towns and cities correctly.
Speaker 1: Thank you, Casey. Can we get a Hallelujah clip? Perfect?
Speaker 1: So I gotta say, Darren, thank you for writing. I
Speaker 1: am loving these very specific derogatory nicknames. Mackhams, Smoggies. Does
Speaker 1: every town in England have one of these? We don't
Speaker 1: have anything like that for Atlanta. I guess people just
Speaker 1: say redneck, right it's true. Well, maybe if you're listening
Speaker 1: you can suggest a cool mocking nickname for people from Atlanta.
Speaker 2: I will say this about that episode. I do think
Speaker 2: we kind of glossed over the fact that this was
Speaker 2: an interesting teachable moment about racism and othering and this
Speaker 2: idea that this monkey supposedly was, you know, immediately identified
Speaker 2: as being a Frenchman, and that was how Frenchmen were
Speaker 2: depicted in these political cartoons of the time. So you know,
Speaker 2: I think there's a something to be said about that.
Speaker 2: And I don't know if we mentioned this in the
Speaker 2: episode either, but there is actually a play about the
Speaker 2: Harleypool Monkey. I thought we did. I think we did,
Speaker 2: but if we didn't describe it, it's so cool to
Speaker 2: look at because it's this really amazing puppetry. I don't
Speaker 2: know if you're familiar with the play Warhorse, that's got
Speaker 2: this amazing, like multi layered puppetry sculpture kind of stuff,
Speaker 2: and that's what the Harleypool Monkey play is about. And
Speaker 2: it does kind of take a little liberty and talk
Speaker 2: more about that, like the way we treat immigrants and
Speaker 2: things like that. So it's a there's kind of a
Speaker 2: twofold story there.
Speaker 1: And thank you again to Dominic and Darren for writing in.
Speaker 1: Thank you fellow ridiculous historians for giving us a list
Speaker 1: in to day. While we're thanking people, let's go ahead
Speaker 1: and thank our super producer, Casey Pegram.
Speaker 2: Thanks also to our research associates Eves Jeff Cod who
Speaker 2: helped us out with this one, and also Christopher Hasiotis
Speaker 2: who continues to be a mensch and we love him dearly.
Speaker 2: I think we might actually have him on. We might
Speaker 2: have him on for an episode. Yes, Yes, he's coming back.
Speaker 2: It's two. We're over overdue. Thanks to Alex Williams who
Speaker 2: composed our theme.
Speaker 1: And thanks to thanks to Jonathan Strickland ak the Quizzor
Speaker 1: for not showing up on this episode.
Speaker 2: I have a feeling we haven't seen the last of him.
Speaker 1: I hear that laugh in the distance and I don't
Speaker 1: think it's Casey piping it through the headphones.
Speaker 2: It haunts me at night man.
Speaker 1: Yes, and speaking of haunting, we want to hear some
Speaker 1: of your favorite ridiculous historical events involving the supernatural or
Speaker 1: allegations thereof. You can tell us about these on Instagram, Facebook,
Speaker 1: and Twitter, and we particularly like to give a shout
Speaker 1: out to our Ridiculous Historians Facebook page. It's one of
Speaker 1: the classies joints on the Internet.
Speaker 2: Yeah. And in one last little plug, Ben and I
Speaker 2: recently appeared on a three part episode of Behind the Bastards,
Speaker 2: which is a really, really amazing show out of our
Speaker 2: La Wing hosted by Robert Evans, who is just a
Speaker 2: cracker jack writer and researcher. And he was kind enough
Speaker 2: slash sadistic enough to have you and I on for
Speaker 2: a four hour podcast marathon about the infamous Alex Jones.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a it's a great listen. Robert's a great guy.
Speaker 1: It is not for children. Now, there is strong language.
Speaker 2: Yeah, if you want to hear me and Ben Effan
Speaker 2: and Jeffin, that's the place to do it.
Speaker 1: And mature themes. But that was a good shot. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and follow behind the bastards. If you like us, you're
Speaker 1: gonna really dig that show.
Speaker 2: It's true and all three parts of that trifecta are out. Now.
Speaker 1: It's a lot. It's a real commitment. It's a road trip.
Speaker 1: But yeah, that's that's it.
Speaker 3: Man.
Speaker 1: Let's uh, let's try to continue our habit of not
Speaker 1: desecrating corpses to win wars.
Speaker 2: Yeah, not digging up pope corpses to make points. I
Speaker 2: don't know. All right, Well, happy Halloween, y'all. Yeah, not
Speaker 2: even it's Halloween all year. Send us Jesus. For more
Speaker 2: podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio, app, Apple podcasts, or
Speaker 2: wherever you listen to your favorite shows.